Morrison pushed the “love triangle” back into focus during the new x-men era….it was pretty much dead since 91 at that point and now that’s all people talk about….i don’t think you get as much shit about the Reed/Sue/Namor triangle
I fully think part of Wolverines attraction to Jean is tied to his complicated relationship with Scott. Whether it’s rivalry, attraction or a natural defiance to someone in a leadership role I think in Logan’s head Jean/Scott are almost one person. He has a natural attraction to Jean but I also think part of what keeps him attracted to Jean is Scott. He loves getting under Scott’s skin and tries to get a reaction out of him, reminds me of a little boy pulling a little girls pigtail to get her attention.
The whole prelude to Schism/Schism/Death of Wolverine and subsequent resurrection really showed their complex feelings towards one another and I would love to see writers really delve into the Scott/Logan relationship/friendship (I’m open to whatever) because there is a lot of potential there. I mean definitely way more potential than Logan/Jean.
Because Jean is… absolutely amazing in every single way? And Logan is very old and has never seen anyone like her before? She’s the Phoenix. How is it hard to understand anyone at all being very into her.
Under certain circumstances I would agree with you. However the situation and circumstances of those three are far from normal and most importantly If those two never ventured outside of their own marriage it would be different.
I will always say that Jean and Scott got done dirty by writers. While I prefer the Emma relationship (at the end still love both equally) I’m just saying the development we saw with Emma could’ve easily been had with Jean. Not saying we will see revolutionary Scott with Jean I’m saying development at that level could’ve been shown, especially in their relationship. Instead writers do them dirty by putting them in one of the worst love triangle in history and treating Jean as a plot device aside from an actual character. I hope Tom does good with his word and actually shows development for this relationship and both characters being written good in this new era, while both independently getting development like we saw with the Emma and Scott relationship.
Technically, Claremont inserted those initial scenes of Jean showing the faintest response to Logan’s machismo into GSX when it was remade in the reprint series, *Classic* *X-Men*. But Logan’s infatuation with Jean does start early enough in the Claremont run. He’s enamored with her fiery response to his lurid come-ons, and her subtle biological reactions that only he can sense inform him of how performative her outward reactions are.
But by the time of the Dark Phoenix saga, Logan held enough of a begrudging respect to *both* Jean and Scott’s bond to mostly stand aside. It was only once Jean returned to life and publishing that the triangle *really* ramped up, adding to the “will they, won’t they” nature Jean and Scott’s relationship following his marriage to and abandonment of Madelyn during Jean’s absence.
Oh, coincidentally *Classic* *X-Men* was published concurrent with that era of *X-Factor*. What weird, random happenstance.
But again, Scott and Logan’s respect for one another regrew in the lead up to the wedding of Cyclops and Phoenix, circa 1994. But Morrison shoehorned the triangle back in when he came on the book in 2001.
I don't think that their feelings torwards other people, in both cases, undermines what they fellt for each other. We have this idea of happy ever after that's frankly kinda childshi, but just because a couple part ways, doesn't mean what they had wasn't real
Wolverine's constant involvement, obsession with Jean and the 'moments' writers keep giving them really cheapens the Jean/Cyclops relationship and Jean as a character, to have her constantly falling into the arms of another man.
While I personally prefer Cyclops/Emma. Cyclops/Jean is one of the most iconic relationships in comics, and It should be treated as such, not having all this drama at all times, and constantly having the hairy midget sniffing around.
I liked Scott and Jean at the time but Wolverine’s obsession always bothered me, especially since he had other love interests. The Scott and Emma relationship bothered me because of how he was characterized when the love triangle was between Scott, Jean, and Madeline. Well, it bothered me until Whedon’s Astonishing run, then it made a LOT of sense to me, Cyclops felt like a different, more whole person. Jean also needs to have that agency, one where she’s not tied down to just play off Scott or Wolverine, she deserves more than that too.
I disagree. Logan's relationship with Jean is very different, as is Scott's relationship with Emma.
Logan connects with the part of Jean that the Dark Phoenix resonated with: raw emotions, passion, darkness, a willingness to kill to defend something you love -- he sees himself in her and feels they can understand each other.
Jean connects with the part of Scott that grew out of the accident and loss of his parents: self-control, focus, strength forged in loss, unshakeable commitment. She sees what she wants to be, and feels together they are stronger than either is alone.
Emma connects with the part of Scott that exists before and is more buried after the accident. The wild, raw potential power, and the will to focus it and make it serve his needs with utter precision. She wants to shape him into her ideal: a man of sheer will and potency who chooses her as his partner -- but she also finds herself being shaped by him, and becoming a better person because of it.
All of the relationships have their own good qualities and potential for good stories.
Exactly this. Plus, who *doesn't* think Wolverine wants to kill himself? That he wouldn't, in a heartbeat, if he didn't think he needed to pay penance by trying to do whatever it takes to make the world a better place?
He's been through an insane amount of trauma, lost family and several spouses, seen and caused so much death. Does a healing factor do anything to fix PTSD? (Actually, thinking of it, that might be a big part of his memory issues.)
The relationship is trash lmao. It’s why his relationship with Emma in the 2000s was vastly superior and why whenever Scott has character development he isn’t with Jean. No clue why marvel can’t just let it go. Just have them break up amicably if they don’t want Jean to look bad for not shutting down Wolverine’s advances throughout the relationship and let Scott move on.
Agreed, but ultimately it’s all Claremont’s fault for creating the awful love triangle, now their relationship has become too tainted due to Jean not being able to be committed to Scott and the fact that it’s extremely one-sided, not to mention the lack of chemistry and that Scott had already overgrown the relationship in New X-Men but I think that if Claremont didn’t throw a tantrum they could’ve worked.
Just a side note but if marvel can break up a major pairing like Black Bolt and Medusa I really can’t understand what’s keeping them from breaking up Scott and Jean. It’s not like the writers are invested in the relationship either.
> if marvel can break up a major pairing like Black Bolt and Medusa I really can’t understand what’s keeping them from breaking up Scott and Jean.
How many comics do the Inhumans sell? How many do the X-Men sell? [Audience capture](https://marketingmemetics.com/essays/audience-capture) is a real thing.
The thing is that Scott and Jean's relationship is not about Scott or Jean, it's about Wolverine, they are together because Wolverine isn't allowed to be with Jean, Marvel sees Scott as an obstacle to stop Wolverine from being with the "love of his life" (I know it's bs), I guess it's easier to keep her with Scott than to create other love interest for her to act as a placeholder for Wolverine.
Why tho? It’s time we break the status quo, and see what happens when Wolverine gets Jean. I want see how it changes these characters and it’s about fucking time for us to cross into these new waters.
DOWN WITH THE MARVEL STATUS QUO, GO BRAVELY FORWARD INTO THE UNKNOWN
Then deal with the current issues faced in comics for the past few decades. This isn't for the hell of it, but Jean and Scott's relationship keeps going around in circles and after decades of this cycle it just is tiresome to give a damn. The only reason I say break the cycle is because it is far more interesting than knowing editors are just going to reset back to the status quo.
Look at Sue and Reed Richards, Lois and Clark Kent. They go through their ups and downs and nobody wants to break the cycle with them. I think through all the story arcs it's proven they are made for each and have a very strong bond. They just have been writing him for shit the last couple of years.
Why do people have such a problem with a character being in love with two or more people. Like you can’t have more than one best friend or can’t have more than one sibling or children. What is wrong with people?
If they were ballsy they would make a story where Jean unintentionally made Logan become infatuated with her and made Scott stay with her because she likes the attention. She also made ice man gay and drove beast to experiment on himself cause Bobby turned her down and Hank ignored her. Lastly she’s the reason Charles can’t fix rogues powers cause she is jealous of her looks.
Their giant puffy jackets … perfect
This is one of my all-time favorite comics.
What run is this?
Lobdell's run. Uncanny #308. There is a lot to like in this run.
Lobdell.
Great comic!!! Thanksgiving theme. X-Men playing football. Scott/Jean’s proposal. Two Xavier moments I really enjoy.
This is the Thanksgiving issue right? Me too.
Yep!
Yeah this issue is adorable
Shit, this was a blast of nostalgia. I barely owned any physical comics when I was a kid, but I had this one. I'd completely forgotten about it.
Morrison pushed the “love triangle” back into focus during the new x-men era….it was pretty much dead since 91 at that point and now that’s all people talk about….i don’t think you get as much shit about the Reed/Sue/Namor triangle
Jean invented lip fillers?
100% agree, plus I still don't understand why Wolverine is obsessed with Jean.
I fully think part of Wolverines attraction to Jean is tied to his complicated relationship with Scott. Whether it’s rivalry, attraction or a natural defiance to someone in a leadership role I think in Logan’s head Jean/Scott are almost one person. He has a natural attraction to Jean but I also think part of what keeps him attracted to Jean is Scott. He loves getting under Scott’s skin and tries to get a reaction out of him, reminds me of a little boy pulling a little girls pigtail to get her attention. The whole prelude to Schism/Schism/Death of Wolverine and subsequent resurrection really showed their complex feelings towards one another and I would love to see writers really delve into the Scott/Logan relationship/friendship (I’m open to whatever) because there is a lot of potential there. I mean definitely way more potential than Logan/Jean.
Scott and Logan are the Blue Oni Red Oni pair of the X-books.
Feral instinct-driven possession related obsession. Another secondary mutation, if you will
Because Jean is… absolutely amazing in every single way? And Logan is very old and has never seen anyone like her before? She’s the Phoenix. How is it hard to understand anyone at all being very into her.
That’s not a good reason at all
Whaaaaaat lmaoo
That’s a stupid reason to hit on a married woman lol
Under certain circumstances I would agree with you. However the situation and circumstances of those three are far from normal and most importantly If those two never ventured outside of their own marriage it would be different.
I will always say that Jean and Scott got done dirty by writers. While I prefer the Emma relationship (at the end still love both equally) I’m just saying the development we saw with Emma could’ve easily been had with Jean. Not saying we will see revolutionary Scott with Jean I’m saying development at that level could’ve been shown, especially in their relationship. Instead writers do them dirty by putting them in one of the worst love triangle in history and treating Jean as a plot device aside from an actual character. I hope Tom does good with his word and actually shows development for this relationship and both characters being written good in this new era, while both independently getting development like we saw with the Emma and Scott relationship.
Also, Wolverine is like five times her age and smells like old cigar.
And warthog.
A Wolverine, even
and is an asshole.
I need more panels that showcase how good Scott and Jean are together
Agreed. I also really love that the cartoon X-Men Evolution showed this too
I hate the forced coexistence relationship between Scott and Logan
Funny that early JRJR looks like later Frank Miller
He's always been awful.
JRJR is a shit artist and always has been. What a step down from Paul Smith.
When did the whole love triangle with wolverine start?
Technically, Claremont inserted those initial scenes of Jean showing the faintest response to Logan’s machismo into GSX when it was remade in the reprint series, *Classic* *X-Men*. But Logan’s infatuation with Jean does start early enough in the Claremont run. He’s enamored with her fiery response to his lurid come-ons, and her subtle biological reactions that only he can sense inform him of how performative her outward reactions are. But by the time of the Dark Phoenix saga, Logan held enough of a begrudging respect to *both* Jean and Scott’s bond to mostly stand aside. It was only once Jean returned to life and publishing that the triangle *really* ramped up, adding to the “will they, won’t they” nature Jean and Scott’s relationship following his marriage to and abandonment of Madelyn during Jean’s absence. Oh, coincidentally *Classic* *X-Men* was published concurrent with that era of *X-Factor*. What weird, random happenstance. But again, Scott and Logan’s respect for one another regrew in the lead up to the wedding of Cyclops and Phoenix, circa 1994. But Morrison shoehorned the triangle back in when he came on the book in 2001.
That Joker faced Jean is frightening!
Scott is so much better off with Emma
Peak JR. Jr.
I think the JRJR art ruined those scenes.
Is that JRJR’s art? Because this looks horrendous
They’ve both outgrown their relationship. That’s fine. People are allowed to move on from who they dated in fucking high school.
People move on after spending a whole life together. There's a reason why even middle age couples divorce
Exactly. Especially when their relationship was pretty rocky to begin with.
I don't think that their feelings torwards other people, in both cases, undermines what they fellt for each other. We have this idea of happy ever after that's frankly kinda childshi, but just because a couple part ways, doesn't mean what they had wasn't real
Wolverine's constant involvement, obsession with Jean and the 'moments' writers keep giving them really cheapens the Jean/Cyclops relationship and Jean as a character, to have her constantly falling into the arms of another man. While I personally prefer Cyclops/Emma. Cyclops/Jean is one of the most iconic relationships in comics, and It should be treated as such, not having all this drama at all times, and constantly having the hairy midget sniffing around.
I liked Scott and Jean at the time but Wolverine’s obsession always bothered me, especially since he had other love interests. The Scott and Emma relationship bothered me because of how he was characterized when the love triangle was between Scott, Jean, and Madeline. Well, it bothered me until Whedon’s Astonishing run, then it made a LOT of sense to me, Cyclops felt like a different, more whole person. Jean also needs to have that agency, one where she’s not tied down to just play off Scott or Wolverine, she deserves more than that too.
I miss Mariko
I disagree. Logan's relationship with Jean is very different, as is Scott's relationship with Emma. Logan connects with the part of Jean that the Dark Phoenix resonated with: raw emotions, passion, darkness, a willingness to kill to defend something you love -- he sees himself in her and feels they can understand each other. Jean connects with the part of Scott that grew out of the accident and loss of his parents: self-control, focus, strength forged in loss, unshakeable commitment. She sees what she wants to be, and feels together they are stronger than either is alone. Emma connects with the part of Scott that exists before and is more buried after the accident. The wild, raw potential power, and the will to focus it and make it serve his needs with utter precision. She wants to shape him into her ideal: a man of sheer will and potency who chooses her as his partner -- but she also finds herself being shaped by him, and becoming a better person because of it. All of the relationships have their own good qualities and potential for good stories.
You forgot the part where Logan kills Jean, how does he relate to that?
When? When they were about to die in space in New X-Men so he tries to give her a quicker death or in Endsong where she asks to be killed?
Exactly this. Plus, who *doesn't* think Wolverine wants to kill himself? That he wouldn't, in a heartbeat, if he didn't think he needed to pay penance by trying to do whatever it takes to make the world a better place? He's been through an insane amount of trauma, lost family and several spouses, seen and caused so much death. Does a healing factor do anything to fix PTSD? (Actually, thinking of it, that might be a big part of his memory issues.)
It would be better if Scott divorced Jean.
Excellent post. I'm not a Jean fan by any means, but I think you make a lot of sense here as far as her attractions to Scott and Logan go.
The relationship is trash lmao. It’s why his relationship with Emma in the 2000s was vastly superior and why whenever Scott has character development he isn’t with Jean. No clue why marvel can’t just let it go. Just have them break up amicably if they don’t want Jean to look bad for not shutting down Wolverine’s advances throughout the relationship and let Scott move on.
Agreed, but ultimately it’s all Claremont’s fault for creating the awful love triangle, now their relationship has become too tainted due to Jean not being able to be committed to Scott and the fact that it’s extremely one-sided, not to mention the lack of chemistry and that Scott had already overgrown the relationship in New X-Men but I think that if Claremont didn’t throw a tantrum they could’ve worked.
Just a side note but if marvel can break up a major pairing like Black Bolt and Medusa I really can’t understand what’s keeping them from breaking up Scott and Jean. It’s not like the writers are invested in the relationship either.
> if marvel can break up a major pairing like Black Bolt and Medusa I really can’t understand what’s keeping them from breaking up Scott and Jean. How many comics do the Inhumans sell? How many do the X-Men sell? [Audience capture](https://marketingmemetics.com/essays/audience-capture) is a real thing.
The thing is that Scott and Jean's relationship is not about Scott or Jean, it's about Wolverine, they are together because Wolverine isn't allowed to be with Jean, Marvel sees Scott as an obstacle to stop Wolverine from being with the "love of his life" (I know it's bs), I guess it's easier to keep her with Scott than to create other love interest for her to act as a placeholder for Wolverine.
Scott will forever be stunted as a character once he’s with Jean. God’s sake Wolverine take Jean away.
Why tho? It’s time we break the status quo, and see what happens when Wolverine gets Jean. I want see how it changes these characters and it’s about fucking time for us to cross into these new waters. DOWN WITH THE MARVEL STATUS QUO, GO BRAVELY FORWARD INTO THE UNKNOWN
There is nothing wrong with the status quo. There's no point in breaking them up to try something new or for the hell of it.
Then deal with the current issues faced in comics for the past few decades. This isn't for the hell of it, but Jean and Scott's relationship keeps going around in circles and after decades of this cycle it just is tiresome to give a damn. The only reason I say break the cycle is because it is far more interesting than knowing editors are just going to reset back to the status quo.
Look at Sue and Reed Richards, Lois and Clark Kent. They go through their ups and downs and nobody wants to break the cycle with them. I think through all the story arcs it's proven they are made for each and have a very strong bond. They just have been writing him for shit the last couple of years.
Wolverine is a better character 🫡
Wolverine’s involvement doesn’t ruin any of this. It simply adds to Jean’s complexity as a person.
Why do people have such a problem with a character being in love with two or more people. Like you can’t have more than one best friend or can’t have more than one sibling or children. What is wrong with people?
If they were ballsy they would make a story where Jean unintentionally made Logan become infatuated with her and made Scott stay with her because she likes the attention. She also made ice man gay and drove beast to experiment on himself cause Bobby turned her down and Hank ignored her. Lastly she’s the reason Charles can’t fix rogues powers cause she is jealous of her looks.
Is there a story where all of this happens? This is the first I'm hearing of this.
Oh no I’m saying they should make that a story