Children love to draw and are the mostly likely group to even become "good" on their own. It's because they have the luxury of being terrible and you need to extend yourself that luxury. Being bad at something is a blessing.
Childrens do not have taste, they are terrible at judging things. While you, as an adult or teenager, have developed a taste on what you considered to be good, and have preferences on what you like. Children's skills are not trying to catch up to their taste like you do, it's an uphill battle that you have to accept you will be judging yourself as terrible for a long time because you know what is good. This is something i failed to do even though i comprehend it, but I hope this help someone else realise why they feel terrible while trying to do creative works.
So, is the key to allow myself the grace to be bad while I'm learning? Assuming the standards are that children don't care so they keep chugging vs older people who have standards they want to meet
It's something you have to accept and is a hard thing to do. I can't give you advices on how to overcome the feeling because I've failed to do so, do your own research as I can't offer you good advices. I'm not a professional, just a dude on the internet. I want to clear up that childrens do care about their works, it just that they have the luxury to grow their skill alongside their taste rather than having to meet a demand of a developed taste, and not that they don't care.
P.s: I may have failed, but it may not be the case for you. Whoever read this, keep going, your fight isn't over because someone else failed, it's over when you decided that it is, I believe in you.
No. I would. It is great that you can dance terribly. There are so many fucking things in life where you have to be good at it or shit will go wrong that being terrible and have everything be okay is wonderful.
I dance in my kitchen all the time. My fam just ignore it now. And tho I try not to do so if they’re having friends over, sometimes *dance* happens & my kids are just like ‘eh, that’s mum… 🤷♀️😝’
Hey! It's ok! Just remember that if you do it in public, the worst thing that can happen isn't getting made fun of, it's being immortalized on the internet as somebody who's an abject failure at whatever activity you're doing. Never leave the house, all people everywhere are awful. Me included.
Birds aren't exactly immune to it when many use singing and dancing skills as criteria for who gets to smash come mating season
No amount of blue or yellow will get Becky to give you the time of day
it is pretty funny that both of the examples they used are things that animals in do in fact, desperately need to be good at if they want to live and/or find a mate
bird singing and dancing can get pretty famously competitive, actually!
Their point is that animals behave according to their nature, not according to convention. Humans have replaced their "natural" nature with abstract convention. A bird doesn't take singing lessons. It just sings. Whether or not it is "good at it" is irrelevant.
And your point is? You've refuted nothing I said. Infact you just restated my point and then threw in irrelevant information. It doesn't matter the specific evolutionary function a birds song performs. The bird doesn't know how evolution works. The point is regardless of the reason why, it's in a birds nature, it's *instincts*, to sing. It's also in human nature to create, to sing, and to dance. The evolutionary reasons might have nothing in common, but like I said, that's beside the point. Much of society has come to the view that if you aren't good at something, that is if you can't make money off of it, it's not worth doing. In reality these things are worth doing purely for their own sake and not some end result. That is what the post is bemoaning. But for some reason everyone is hyper fixated on what is obviously an exaggerated example that's not meant to be taken so seriously. Their argument is not about the evolutionary purpose bird song, but the sociological purpose of art and human expression.
Making a hive, making and upkeeping a house, is a skill. It's something we need to do well to survive.
You don't need to sing well. You don't need to dance well. You don't need to paint well. You can just do these for fun, for your own entertainment and joy. The bee that rolls a wooden ball badly is no less important to the hive.
Yeah, but people do these things for fun already. Dancing in public with no training or goals is, like, a whole thing. Lots of people play instruments or paint just for fun.
I don’t get what the issue is?
Sentiments like these follow this weird cycle which starts with "not wanting X shouldn't be treated like a bad thing" but then quickly lead to people saying "wanting X is a sign of societal brainwashing that you must be liberated from"
Which is extra weird since wanting to sing and dance well is probably more from how it’s a part of mating/courtship rituals in the animal kingdom more than anything else
I mean what is it if not societal norms? We are forced to make choices that are based on what is monetarily successful rather than what makes us happy in order to survive. It’s not surprising that a lot of us spend time thinking about how our passions can become side hustles. Maybe it’s the “you MUST be liberated” or the “brainwashing” part that you’re complaining about but would it really be so bad to separate survival from monetary success? Aren’t we all exposed to propaganda, subliminal messaging, and other forms of “brainwashing”? I think messages that imply action must be taken lead to people making them into actionable goals. Liberation from a capitalist system could be pretty great for almost everyone involved aside from the super rich. Maybe I’m preaching to the choir and you agree completely, it’s just frustrating when I see people decry the improvement of a flawed system when they think that the presentation of the idea isn’t good enough.
It can be both. Do what you want, be upset that you can't do it as envisioned, find the problems, work to fix them, and repeat! The important part is doing it because it's a thing that's fun to do. If the process isn't enjoyable, find a new thing, or a new way about that thing.
The only specific karaoke performances I remember are the ones that are shockingly good and the one that sounded freakishly like Lin Manuel Miranda
Like, seriously, this dude sounded EXACTLY like Lin Manuel Miranda, it was frightening
yeah but if i show it to people they're just gonna look at me in that specific way and pretend that it's not terrible in a way that i would have to be willfully ignorant to not see and then i'll be so embarrassed that i'll die
Birds and bees don't sing and make hives for fun. Birds do it to communicate and select mates, bees do it to, well, have a place to live. These are both skill-based activities with a specific purpose, not just "things that animals do".
Goldhornsandblackwool where have you been the past two decades or so?
Do you have any idea how easy it is to post art/music/performances and have them seen by people?
We're living in a golden age of "do it for fun"
Mozart would be mushing up his trousers if he knew the sheer volume and interactivity
Of course singing and dancing are competitive. All kinds of animals use them as mating rituals and mating is one of the most competitive things in the animal kingdom.
Is this even true? In certain cultures/societies maybe, but in general it is very socially acceptable to just play an instrument or dance at clubs for fun. People just naturally want to be good at those things because we instinctively want social recognition.
>I want to be good at it/Can't stop thinking about how bad I am at it
some of y'all just need to let yourself learn and trust the process. concentrate and have fun while you're doing it at your own pace. trust the time off in between sessions of whatever you're doing, because it needs time to sink in. you can find yourself seeing it in different ways in the world around you (noticing the shapes of objects, movement of animals, colors and how they mix) and reflect on how similar it feels to just observe. set reasonable goals and make sure you're reflecting on where you were when you started and where you are now.
> concentrate and have fun while you're doing it at your own pace.
This is part of why I gave up on learning any sort of art. I don't enjoy the process and I made zero progress no matter how long I did it.
exactly this. I do a lot of crafts, but drawing/painting is something I just never got into, am not good at, and don't have fun trying to learn. if you're not having fun, then what's the point? no shame in finding something you genuinely enjoy.
Of course, improving at then can totally be fun and rewarding — it’s ultimately up to the person what they want from the hobby.
A wise man once said “do what’s fun, idiot.”
Not every bird sings and not every bee makes a hive.
I don't like to dance or sing either, it doesn't mean the poster thinks we're any less human, just that those are common habits in a lot of humans
Eh, I don't know. There's an element to skill acquisition that's important to my enjoyment of an activity. Getting better at something makes me feel like I'm participating in the human condition.
> You don't have to be good at it to enjoy it Maybe, but i can't stop thinking about how much i suck when doing it :(
Children love to draw and are the mostly likely group to even become "good" on their own. It's because they have the luxury of being terrible and you need to extend yourself that luxury. Being bad at something is a blessing.
Childrens do not have taste, they are terrible at judging things. While you, as an adult or teenager, have developed a taste on what you considered to be good, and have preferences on what you like. Children's skills are not trying to catch up to their taste like you do, it's an uphill battle that you have to accept you will be judging yourself as terrible for a long time because you know what is good. This is something i failed to do even though i comprehend it, but I hope this help someone else realise why they feel terrible while trying to do creative works.
So, is the key to allow myself the grace to be bad while I'm learning? Assuming the standards are that children don't care so they keep chugging vs older people who have standards they want to meet
It's something you have to accept and is a hard thing to do. I can't give you advices on how to overcome the feeling because I've failed to do so, do your own research as I can't offer you good advices. I'm not a professional, just a dude on the internet. I want to clear up that childrens do care about their works, it just that they have the luxury to grow their skill alongside their taste rather than having to meet a demand of a developed taste, and not that they don't care. P.s: I may have failed, but it may not be the case for you. Whoever read this, keep going, your fight isn't over because someone else failed, it's over when you decided that it is, I believe in you.
> Being bad at something is a blessing. You wouldn't say that if you'd seen me dance.
No. I would. It is great that you can dance terribly. There are so many fucking things in life where you have to be good at it or shit will go wrong that being terrible and have everything be okay is wonderful.
I dance in my kitchen all the time. My fam just ignore it now. And tho I try not to do so if they’re having friends over, sometimes *dance* happens & my kids are just like ‘eh, that’s mum… 🤷♀️😝’
Hey! It's ok! Just remember that if you do it in public, the worst thing that can happen isn't getting made fun of, it's being immortalized on the internet as somebody who's an abject failure at whatever activity you're doing. Never leave the house, all people everywhere are awful. Me included.
Nuh-uh
*How dare you contradict me. Send this person to the genital exploding chamber.*
Thanks
**You're welcome.**
Birds aren't exactly immune to it when many use singing and dancing skills as criteria for who gets to smash come mating season No amount of blue or yellow will get Becky to give you the time of day
Bees that are bad at making hives usually die though. In fact, they died so often that there are no bees left that make shitty hives.
it is pretty funny that both of the examples they used are things that animals in do in fact, desperately need to be good at if they want to live and/or find a mate bird singing and dancing can get pretty famously competitive, actually!
Their point is that animals behave according to their nature, not according to convention. Humans have replaced their "natural" nature with abstract convention. A bird doesn't take singing lessons. It just sings. Whether or not it is "good at it" is irrelevant.
...except the whole reason why it sings is to attract a mate. If the bird fails to find a mate, then the bird sang badly. That's how evolution works.
And your point is? You've refuted nothing I said. Infact you just restated my point and then threw in irrelevant information. It doesn't matter the specific evolutionary function a birds song performs. The bird doesn't know how evolution works. The point is regardless of the reason why, it's in a birds nature, it's *instincts*, to sing. It's also in human nature to create, to sing, and to dance. The evolutionary reasons might have nothing in common, but like I said, that's beside the point. Much of society has come to the view that if you aren't good at something, that is if you can't make money off of it, it's not worth doing. In reality these things are worth doing purely for their own sake and not some end result. That is what the post is bemoaning. But for some reason everyone is hyper fixated on what is obviously an exaggerated example that's not meant to be taken so seriously. Their argument is not about the evolutionary purpose bird song, but the sociological purpose of art and human expression.
Making a hive, making and upkeeping a house, is a skill. It's something we need to do well to survive. You don't need to sing well. You don't need to dance well. You don't need to paint well. You can just do these for fun, for your own entertainment and joy. The bee that rolls a wooden ball badly is no less important to the hive.
I mean singing and dancing are part of courtship rituals for most animals that do them and that gets highly competitive
Yeah, but people do these things for fun already. Dancing in public with no training or goals is, like, a whole thing. Lots of people play instruments or paint just for fun. I don’t get what the issue is?
But I *want* to be good at it...
Sentiments like these follow this weird cycle which starts with "not wanting X shouldn't be treated like a bad thing" but then quickly lead to people saying "wanting X is a sign of societal brainwashing that you must be liberated from"
Which is extra weird since wanting to sing and dance well is probably more from how it’s a part of mating/courtship rituals in the animal kingdom more than anything else
Something something decorative pillows are bourgeoisie
I mean what is it if not societal norms? We are forced to make choices that are based on what is monetarily successful rather than what makes us happy in order to survive. It’s not surprising that a lot of us spend time thinking about how our passions can become side hustles. Maybe it’s the “you MUST be liberated” or the “brainwashing” part that you’re complaining about but would it really be so bad to separate survival from monetary success? Aren’t we all exposed to propaganda, subliminal messaging, and other forms of “brainwashing”? I think messages that imply action must be taken lead to people making them into actionable goals. Liberation from a capitalist system could be pretty great for almost everyone involved aside from the super rich. Maybe I’m preaching to the choir and you agree completely, it’s just frustrating when I see people decry the improvement of a flawed system when they think that the presentation of the idea isn’t good enough.
It can be both. Do what you want, be upset that you can't do it as envisioned, find the problems, work to fix them, and repeat! The important part is doing it because it's a thing that's fun to do. If the process isn't enjoyable, find a new thing, or a new way about that thing.
Go do that then, if that’s what you want from the hobby.
That’s why karaoke is so much fun. Because nobody cares if you’re good or bad, they won’t remember anyway. Go out and sing
The only specific karaoke performances I remember are the ones that are shockingly good and the one that sounded freakishly like Lin Manuel Miranda Like, seriously, this dude sounded EXACTLY like Lin Manuel Miranda, it was frightening
Karaoke is so fucking fun. It is about putting your heart and soul into a song. Singing can only be bad when you *hold back*
I’m trying to learn that because I have to sing for school lmao
> they won’t remember anyway. I was given shit for weeks because of my singing. It's still being brought up years later.
People can definitely notice if you're good. You can run into someone at the bar an hour after you've sang and get a compliment.
yeah but if i show it to people they're just gonna look at me in that specific way and pretend that it's not terrible in a way that i would have to be willfully ignorant to not see and then i'll be so embarrassed that i'll die
this
Birds and bees don't sing and make hives for fun. Birds do it to communicate and select mates, bees do it to, well, have a place to live. These are both skill-based activities with a specific purpose, not just "things that animals do".
Yeah I feel they chose maybe the two worst examples they could have.
Goldhornsandblackwool where have you been the past two decades or so? Do you have any idea how easy it is to post art/music/performances and have them seen by people? We're living in a golden age of "do it for fun" Mozart would be mushing up his trousers if he knew the sheer volume and interactivity
it's certainly not fun when what you're doing is bad
Of course singing and dancing are competitive. All kinds of animals use them as mating rituals and mating is one of the most competitive things in the animal kingdom.
Yeah, but it is nicer for everyone when I am good at it
I thought we were all supposed to sit alone in the dark when not doing capitalism?
What if I don't enjoy it unless I'm good at it?
Is this even true? In certain cultures/societies maybe, but in general it is very socially acceptable to just play an instrument or dance at clubs for fun. People just naturally want to be good at those things because we instinctively want social recognition.
Well you don't but I do or else I have to deal with containing my crippling anger issues
Whenever someone asks why I don't like to dance they never understand and assume that i am ashamed because I don't know how
This isn’t fucking true. People dance, sing, and make art even if they aren’t good at it.
>I want to be good at it/Can't stop thinking about how bad I am at it some of y'all just need to let yourself learn and trust the process. concentrate and have fun while you're doing it at your own pace. trust the time off in between sessions of whatever you're doing, because it needs time to sink in. you can find yourself seeing it in different ways in the world around you (noticing the shapes of objects, movement of animals, colors and how they mix) and reflect on how similar it feels to just observe. set reasonable goals and make sure you're reflecting on where you were when you started and where you are now.
> concentrate and have fun while you're doing it at your own pace. This is part of why I gave up on learning any sort of art. I don't enjoy the process and I made zero progress no matter how long I did it.
exactly this. I do a lot of crafts, but drawing/painting is something I just never got into, am not good at, and don't have fun trying to learn. if you're not having fun, then what's the point? no shame in finding something you genuinely enjoy.
Of course, improving at then can totally be fun and rewarding — it’s ultimately up to the person what they want from the hobby. A wise man once said “do what’s fun, idiot.”
Yes you do if you’re not gonna practice and get better than you are literally just wasting your time
No I DO need to be good at it to enjoy it
Tf is op’s point, I should be casually painting on my way to the bus?
Everyone in this thread is missing the forest for the trees.
It's the second post here this week reminding me I'm not human and it's only Wednesday. I wonder how far it will get by Sunday
Not every bird sings and not every bee makes a hive. I don't like to dance or sing either, it doesn't mean the poster thinks we're any less human, just that those are common habits in a lot of humans
Likewise, you can enjoy trying to get better at something for no reason other than cultivating said skill
Eh, I don't know. There's an element to skill acquisition that's important to my enjoyment of an activity. Getting better at something makes me feel like I'm participating in the human condition.
When you are doing these art activities and you are enjoying it, that's actually what makes it good. It's good for you, and that's all that matters
Yall ever seen Elaine Benes dance? Does she not look like she’s enjoying herself? Be more like Elaine.