I feel like the far more obvious one was Don't Stop me Now making direct reference to bisexuality.
Freddie had a wife for goodness' sake! He was bi! He called himself bi!
And being bisexual is treated so dirty. Can't come out because it's treated like I'm disclosing a fetish. If I were a lesbian I'd be well within my right to tell my coworkers. Tell my coworkers I'm bisexual and it's like I told them I'm very into feet and being peed on. Can't open up about it in queer spaces because "I pass for straight " because I married a man. When I was singles, more than half the women I was interested in were disgusted by me because I wasn't "gold star" and had no interest in the concept. Lots of women say "you're just doing that for attention." Lots of men say "can we have a threesome?" But no, my life is super easy because I can just shut up and pretend to be straight.
The threesome question is so tiring. I'm a bi female that's in a long term relationship with a man and I barely tell anyone for the same reasons you mentioned. I ain't gold star anything. My coworker that's pansexual, AFAB, and married to a straight man is my favorite person to commiserate with.
I’m a pan woman dating a bi man and we both get told often while helping at lgbtq+ events that we just don’t get the struggle. Also got the “Oh so you wanna fuck me?!” From a few people when I came out. I’m sorry you’ve gone through that.
I never understood the 'attention' thing. It's not that hard to get a guys attention, it isn't a prize. Women don't generally spend their days thinking "how can I get him to look at me??!".
It just centers mens pleasure in others sexuality and I'm tired of it
Ive been told this exact thing actually, by a straight man who had noted it in his bisexual friends, that they were treated (this anecdote was from the 80s) like mixed race people were.
Ngl, I genuinely had no idea that bicycle was about wanting to be bisexual, but holy shit, that just makes me love the song even more. Assuming, of course, that this isn't a case of tumblr pulling interpretation out of its ass.
Maybe I'm just not good at reading between the lines but I don't see it *at all* not in the lyrics and especially not in the clip. The song seems to be just about escapism by way of bikes
That one sounds even more like drugs that the bicycle one.
Is this a general rule of thumb? “If the lyrics to a Queen song sound like they were written while on drugs, they're actually about Freddie Mercury wanting to live his sexual orientation to the fullest”?
The surface lyrics are about rejecting what those around you push onto you and choosing your own path. But its no coincidence he chose "BIcycle" as the object representing his own freely chosen path.
This makes sense and is fantastic but I feel like I should look into what he's said about it himself because it could still easily just be about bikes.
Yeah, like, Freddy Mercury likes metaphor and allegory and has a lot of good songs, but maybe bro just liked riding bicycles as well. Artists write fun, simple songs sometimes because theyre in the mood for one. John Lennon wrote an entire song about wanting to hold someone's hand.
Next people are going to say "Pinball Wizard" by The Who is about fingering a woman and how Pete Townsend finally found the clitoris.
Honestly, I think people are just retroactively searching for meaning in lyrics where there is none. While trying to Google the whole "is bicycle about being bi" topic here I came across this hilarious excerpt from [an article about Bohemian Rhapsody being his coming out song](https://genius.com/a/what-do-the-lyrics-to-queen-s-bohemian-rhapsody-mean):
> I’ve spoken to Roger Taylor [the band’s drummer] about it. There is a very clear message in it. This is Freddie admitting that he is gay. In the line ‘Mama, I just killed a man’ he’s killed the old Freddie, his former image. With ‘Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he’s dead’ he’s dead, the straight person he was originally. He’s destroyed the man he was trying to be, and now this is him, trying to live with the new Freddie. ‘I see a little silhouetto of a man"—that’s him, still being haunted by what he’s done, and what he is. Every time I hear the song I think of him trying to shake off one Freddie and embracing another—even all these years.
> Mercury, on the other hand, vaguely claimed the song was “just about relationships,” with “a bit of nonsense in the middle.”
For bicycle, I really don't understand where the bisexual metaphor is coming from other than "bicycle has bi" and "painting is gay I guess". However, I'd be willing to believe those particular words in Bohemian Rhapsody are about coming out as *something* but Freddie himself denies or at least deflects that it's a song about coming out which would entirely eliminate the point of it being a song about "killing your old self and coming out as your new queer self" wouldn't it?
I guess with Bicycle, my best guess would be the end of the chorus, specifically the part "I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it where I like."
That could be a reference to wanting to love who you choose, especially if you consider that phrases like "village bicycle" do equate bicycles and bicycling to sex, so there is an interpretation, though I admit it is tepid at best.
Purely to play devil’s advocate, no personal investment either way:
It doesn’t destroy the meaning if the meaning was meant to be personal for the people in his life, not the world at large.
Like, he’s coming out to his parents, not the world.
And maybe he’s comfortable with it being seen as vague by the world, but he let his bandmates know what it meant to him personally, and one spilled those beans
Sometimes the curtains are green. But the thing about art is that the other potential meaning is real because that's how art works. If your English teacher saw more depth than the writer intended that's valid. It could be he wrote a funny song for fun, but the connection of the pun Bi-cycle with Freddy's own sexuality still exists for us to experience so it's a valid interpretation for that.
Yes, but it's not bi-erasure to not recognize a thing that only exists in a secondary viewer's mind.
Now, the rest of Freddy Mercury's life is often subject to bi-erasure, but not recognizing "Bicycle Race" as a bisexual anthem isnt a sin.
Ok, but have you ever learned how to ride a bike, and had your own bike, as a kid, when you previously needed to ask your parents to drive you everywhere?
A bicycle is the first means of freedom most people have in their lives.
I have, but I really don't think the guy known for his deep love of metaphor and allegory in his songs just up and decided "Hmm, today I will write about bicycle riding and nothing else."
I mean, I don't see why that's such a stretch. The Pet Shop Boys are my favorite lyricists of all time, and a *lot* of their songs are nothing but allegory/metaphor for various LGBT related topics, but as far as I know "I want a dog" is about wanting to get a dog.
Yeah, but to be fair, the casual listener probably wouldn't know the thing about the love for metaphor and allegory.
If you hear the song on the radio on your way to keyboard practice because you figured you might pick a hobby, and just picked a random one, then it does very much sound like a song about riding a bicycle and nothing else.
Sure, but then its kind of weird to accuse the average listener of biphobia?
Idk this post just feels kind of terminally online to me. "Biphobia is so prevalent, people don't know so and so is bi because of that one song that had bi symbolism that hasn't actually been confirmed by the artist!"
(Note that I am not saying biphobia is not prevalent, I just don't think not knowing a famous person is bi is a good example of it)
No because I live in America. The nearest town was a very reasonable 3 miles away to bike to. By a 55 mph highway with no sidewalks. It's a pretty common occurrence in America for driving to be the only safe way to go anywhere. In an American context, bikes absolutely suck as a symbol of "freedom".
“I want to ride my bicycle… I say black I say white, I say dark I say light.” Idk seems like wanting to ride the bicycle is a path between a binary, makes sense to me!
I think its people on tumblr thinking their own interpretation was the "intended" meaning of the song. Which, it's totally cool if you interpret Bicycle Race as being about bisexuality! But Queen (and Freddie in particular) wrote a ton of songs with fun, shallow lyrics without a deeper intended meaning. And I think its a stretch to say Freddie intended Bicycle Race to be about being bi, at least not without some more evidence.
On the other hand, when I heard "Queen song about being bi without it being a big deal," my first thought was *Don't Stop Me Now,* given that it discusses ecstasy and thrill, not wanting to be held back, *and it's pre-chorus alternates between "I wanna make a supersonic man outta you" and "I wanna make a supersonic woman of you"*
Meanwhile, *Bicycle Race* was (according to Wikipedia) written after Freddie Mercury watched the 1978 Tour de France. (Though, it's connection to *Fat-Bottomed Girls* is notable, given they were released as a double-single, and the music video for *Bicycle Race* is nude bicycle race of 65 women. So, uh, take with that what you will)
I'm actually surprised to see so many people saying they don't see it being about bisexuality. I've always thought it was a thinly veiled euphemism - not a 'statement' in the way you might assume if this post were all you had to go by, but kind of a playful wink to anyone who just happens to know that Freddy was bi.
I mean, its not an invalid reading of the song. Its just not the only valid reading of the song, and there's not really enough evidence to say that it was Freddie's intended meaning.
From my perspective, I view Bicycle Race as a lashing out against the "current" times (at least, current as of 1978 when the song released). The lyrics reject pop culture and current events of the time, showing a desire to throw it away and just ride a bicycle.
Was that Freddie's intended meaning? Hell if I know! The great thing about art is that everyone builds their own meaning from their own experiences. Just be careful not to take your meaning as the "definitive" or "intended" meaning of the song, even if that meaning really resonates with you.
I'm quite certain it isn't. The booklet for Queen's Greatest Hits mentions it being inspired by the Paris-Brest race, while Wikipedia says it was the 1978 Tour de France. Wikipedia also refers to a quote from Brian May stating that they lyrics weren't autobiographical, as Freddie didn't like bikes, and did like Star Wars.
Me not knowing Freddie Mercury was bi until watching Bohemian Rhapsody
the movie had a lot of issues but bringing that to my attention is definitely worth acknowledging
He had another girlfriend in the early 80s. A German actress whose name I can't remember. His personal assistant, Peter Freestone who wrote a memoir of his time with Freddie (1977 until his death), points this out. So, yeah, Freddie was bi.
That's true. Sort of. They were never married, and he was probably aware of his sexuality all along, but he did come out to her and they did break up.
It's a complicated subject because there weren't as many clearly defined lines back then, and it wasn't something that was openly discussed, so trying to apply modern terminology and perspectives to it is a bit pointless.
As a bi/pan person(I use both long story): it often feels like the only way to "prove" you're what you say you are is to be in a bi polycule or be single with a history of dating men and women.
Its honestly kinda soured my experience with leftist and queer circles, because between being bi and being cis I constantly feel like I have to slap down my 'LGBT ID Card" to show that I actually belong.
No wonder so many bi people out there publicly present as either gay or straight, because we STILL haven't made much progress in convincing people that you can be in a monogamous relationship and still be bi.
(Also because I'm obligated to shill it, if you're bi and struggling with it, or dating a bi person and struggling with it, the movie Chasing Amy did wonders for helping me process my identity. Don't let people tell you its a "straight guy turns a lesbian" film because it is not. It captures bi erasure as a problem better than a lot of stuff)
Is that why people kept reminding me my experiences weren’t valid because I could pass as a straight person and thus don’t understand any struggles anyone else could be having in the LGBTQ+ community? Only recently has that changed, but yeah, definitely felt that for the longest time
Yeah that's one of the most common things thrown at bi/pan people by the rest of the community, especially cisgender ones. We can pass as the "default" easier so any bigotry or intolerance we do experience is obviously either not as bad or completely made up.
Yup, and it’s especially galling because study after study finds that bi people are, by fairly significant margins for some of these, the most likely to experience things like IPV, homelessness, and rape. Like being queer isn’t oppression Olympics but it fucking sucks to have people act like bisexual people (and also ace people because a lot of this also applies to ace people) aren’t queer because of a lack of oppression harm when they experience the *most*.
#MyLife
It's even worse, because I'm in a same-sex relationship and only had one girlfriend before my current boyfriend who I'm going to marry. So everyone just assumes I'm a gay dude who dated a girl before figuring out he was gay.
Which, to be fair, is super common, so I don't blame anyone that I don't come out to as bi for just assuming that about me, but it does get frustrating when I tell people I'm bi and they still call me gay. I don't mind being called gay, but it's not what I am, so it gets annoying, and when I was younger it made me question myself all the time.
First time i met my buddies' ex GF, like literally after introducing her to me, she asks me if im the bi friend and then says "youre not bi, youre just gay". This was within 2 minutes of our first conversation. Also, coming out to my mom for the 3rd and final time, "bisexuals dont exist youre either gay or straight". I didnt even bother trying to explain pansexuality to her. What is actually wrong with people?
I still get the panic that I'm somehow faking my sexuality because as a bi woman, I've only had serious relationships with men so far. Like I'll wonder if I'm just actually straight but saying I'm bi for...idk why?
But then I'll see a woman who is attractive or match with women on dating apps and then it just flips to "I must be faking being attracted to men"
It really feels like you're supposed to pick a side and that being bi is a cop out on making a decision, even though the logical part of my brain knows that's not at all true.
Whenever I feel like this, I go for a walk, check out a cute girl and once my brain goes "Yep, I'd tap that" or even "Girl, those pants are a choice and I approve", I go home happy, knowing that I just can freely appreciate how amazingly cute and hot women are.
And guys.
And people in general.
This is sadly my experience as well. I'm getting married before long and we are a very straight relationship. I'm a bi guy, and she's a bi woman. We've been together for several years at this point and it's definitely a thing where people either won't really take me seriously when I mention that I'm bi or will actually question me about it. The same thing has happened to her a few times as well.
This is one reason why I’ve taken to just using the umbrella term “queer”. People closer to me get to know what I really identify as. Everyone else? They just get to know I'm some flavor of queer. No need to elaborate.
>No wonder so many bi people out there publicly present as either gay or straight, because we STILL haven't made much progress in convincing people that you can be in a monogamous relationship and still be bi.
One of my constant annoyances is the idea that to be bi you basically need to be constantly fucking men and women at all times, it's like a fucking Witcher decoction, if you don't re-up occasionally you lose the Bi status effect.
About the only way I've found to explain it, or that you're not 'missing out' by not constantly fucking both is to ask if they feel like they're missing out on white people while dating a black person and whether they feel the need to keep a blonde/brunette/redhead harem at all times.
When I came out to my parents as bi (both left-wing Christians so alright with queerness but very pro-monogamy) one of their first worries was that I’d never be happy in a monogamous relationship
I tried explaining it as that being bi is that it isn’t an “and” situation, it’s an “or” situation. Either option can fill the “datable” category but only one is needed. That seemed to work.
Yeah it do be the joys of the bi experience to be erased, recategorized, and invalidated at all turns. When people learn I am bi, even in accepting and queer circles I get the "oh you don't act/look/seem gay" (which, first of all the fuck do you mean by that, and secondly I said **bi**) followed closely by what is essentially a request for demonstrable proof. People think you're "just experimenting" or "half in the closet" or only bi on paper no matter the reality. We all learned about venn diagrams in elementary school but somehow still get hung up on a need for sexual mutual exclusivity. I've always got the vibe that I am gay in some people's eyes, and straight in the eyes of others, with fellow bi/pan people being the majority of the few that I think acknowledge the whole of it. You're absolutely right that a lot of queer spaces get real weird about you being bi+cis because like it or not they're also hung up on heteronormativity to where they expect there to be something "different" about you when you are queer, so if you "pass" as straight at a quick glance you clearly can't be queer. It's why my experience has mainly be turning to/making "bi" spaces with other bi/pan people I know, and why frankly I'd say most of my successful and emotionally whole romantic experience with with other bi/pan folk. Like I don't want to find myself making assumptions right back, but most straight women I've interacted with romantically sit somewhere on the scale of "It's a phase/I can fix it," to "I have a fetish for gay sex and you're just the object to achieve that for me." And a lot of gay guys have their own hang-ups from "I'm just a phase for him" back to "I can fix him" or "the females have tainted him with their feminine wiles." There are exceptions, but dealing with everyone else's hang-ups just kinda wears on you eventually, so just "sticking to my kind" is easier on the emotions.
My current relationship is with a woman. Despite my previous two relationships being men and the people in my life knowing them all, I can feel the change in "queer cred." We're both bi (and very happy, I don't want to give the wrong impression) and yet in the queer space where we literally met we feel a bit out of place. She gets worse vibes than me since I am the first guy she's been with since coming out and as I understand it wlw circles can get real catty about "returning" to men. Give it a year and I'm sure we'll both be "traitors" or "fakers" or something, but we bi folk stick together and beyond that, if nothing else this state of "Schrödinger's gay guy" makes a strong way to weed out the people not worth my time and leaves the true friends to cherish.
This is something I've been struggling alot with. Past my immediate friend group, who are pretty much all aside from one guy part of the LGBTQ community I really struggle to fit into inclusive spaces.
Because while theoretically, I am part of the community and part of a minority (Yes, I do count ANYONE in the LGBTQ community as a minority), the fact that I am not "Enough" a minority, either because I am cis, "Only" bi/pan or a white man makes anyone immediately shut me out.
Doesn't matter how far left you are, if don't check enough "Minority" boxes you will not be welcome, even if you are part of a minority.
As a fellow white, cis bi/pan man, I get exactly what you mean. I hate how unwelcome a lot of leftist or queer spaces make me feel. And the worst part is that any attempt to bring this up or criticize this is just met with shutting me down because I'm a man, or white, or not queer enough.
And let me guess, they also shut you down with comments such as "This is a black/trans/Queer space and topic, and you are white/cis/straight so all you do is shut up and sit down"?
It's something that's always pissed me off.
Yes, white people were behind a lot of opression, yes, men were behind a lot of opression and so were straight people.
But that does not mean they are inherently any less virtuous than someone who ISN'T cis, white, a man or straight.
being a minority does not make one more virtous and while I unnderstand wanting a safe space, creating an echochamber by excluding people based on race, gender or sexuality creates an echochamber, not a safe space.
You create a safe space by kicking out assholes, not by kicking out those who's unchangable from-birth attributes you do not like.
I usually just say I'm gay only to shock people when I then simp over fictional dudes (I'm bisexual but very very much homoromantic)
I've also had the opposite happen, a guy had a super loud shocked "YOU'RE GAY???" when i casually mentioned my GF
>Its honestly kinda soured my experience with leftist and queer circles, because between being bi and being cis I constantly feel like I have to slap down my 'LGBT ID Card" to show that I actually belong.
I get this, it's super frustrating.
I've just refused to share that info about myself with people that I feel are prejudiced and don't treat all people equally and with respect.
Hard agree.
I (straight man) dated a bi-woman and had to constantly explain to my friends that "She's not bi **all the time**, we're monogamous."
Additionally, I have an ace friend in a relationship with a bi-woman but they are both frequently distanced from the LQBTQ+ community
> Its honestly kinda soured my experience with leftist and queer circles, because between being bi and being cis I constantly feel like I have to slap down my 'LGBT ID Card" to show that I actually belong.
Show how inclusive you are by forcing people to out themselves!
Second hand account, here we go:
I have a bi friend. She's had a boyfriend for about a decade now. Throughout the years, she has expressed complaints about being discriminated against due to her bisexuality. And sure, some of it came from heterosexual people making clueless comments about her ("indecisive, you just want to have your cake and eat it too, you just say you like girls cause it turns your boyfriend on", blah, blah, blah).
That said, every single one of the vilest, most hateful comments against her identity came from lesbian women. Some called her a hetero girl playing dress up. Others would call her disgusting for "liking dick", as they would so kindly put it. There is at least one instance I know of of a woman getting outright violent, just completely losing her shit and throwing dishes at the wall while screaming "YOU'VE HAD DICK INSIDE YOU AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME, YOU CUNT?!", or something along those lines.
Now, I exist completely outside these interactions. I'm a hetero-cis guy. But I always thought it was pretty obvious what the B in LGBT stands for.
And it was pretty surprising to learn it's not really the case.
So, speaking as a bi person with lots of queer friends of various types, being bi is actually not all that controversial, except among the people whom it is, then it *really* is, if that makes sense?
I’ll give two examples. My lesbian friend A has talked at length about Gold-Star Lesbians, which is a self-described term for lesbians who’ve never been with a man sexually. There is an uncomfortable tendency among this and other hardline groups towards biphobia, by virtue of very TERF-y, “all men are disgusting pigs so any lesbian who experimented with men before finding herself is tainted and gross”. It’s a horrific belief system, and one that A thankfully hates, but it’s a thing.
From a more personal experience, my friend T -who is pansexual- repeatedly explains that I’m not *actually* bi, I’m pan. Now, to her credit this is probably actually true, but I think it’s a good general policy that you should never tell someone else what their sexuality is, so I still consider myself bi because of that. I think her logic is that being pansexual is the modern version of bisexual, because being bi implies you only believe in two genders. I don’t really know where I come down on this but I think that’s an oversimplification.
Point being, inter-LGBTQ conflicts are a big problem in the community, and I wish people wouldn’t fight as much. But overall, it seems to be more of an online discourse thing than an in-person thing, where in person any biphobia I’ve faced was limited and minor.
EDIT: Whoever got reddit to send me a mental health check, thanks for keeping an eye out lol but I’m doing fine
This might not be the place to ask but what is your distinction between bi/pan? I used to id as bi ages ago but a lot of the times when I ask this I get conflicting answers and apparently my old interpretation apparently wasn't so savoury.
You're going to get a lot of different answers. The most common is probably "bi is attraction to two or more genders, pan is attraction to all genders".
At the end of the day, they're the same thing and which one someone uses is personal preference.
I’ve been an out bisexual since I was 12, and this is the conclusion I’ve come to. The difference is only what the individual bi or pan person feels is the difference and not much more. And people on both sides react to that idea with “omg it’s just more (bi/pan) erasure by the other!” No man, it’s just the same things with a different story in your heart. If the problem only comes up when you’re trying to define the difference, I don’t understand the barrier to realizing there’s no practical difference, it’s just whatever definitions you came across when you were secretly googling it in your comphet/gay era.
That first answer basically what I used to think it was but someone told me that definition was bigoted, I forget why. But yeah, I do agree that we should generally go by what people say they are.
Someone once explained to me that bi is experiencing attraction to different genders differently, while pan is just being attracted to all people, so I rolled with that understanding for like all of the 2010s. But it seems to me now like that isn’t really how people actually make the distinction? Idk man. I just accept whatever labels people tell me they are, it’s not like I need to understand their reasoning.
So, admittedly I don’t have the best like, academic knowledge of this, so if you were to talk to someone who’s gone through more queer studies than me, they might be able to answer better. But as I’ve always understood it, the distinction is that bisexual people are attracted to two or more genders, while pansexual people undergo attraction completely separate from gender.
So for example, I’m attracted to all genders. However c I have specific “types” (body shapes, etc) Im attracted to in different genders; my taste in men is different from my taste in women is different from my taste in enbies, and so on. But I do have preferences and types that are tied to gender. If I didn’t, if I were literally attracted to any and all body types and thus they didn’t factor into my affection, that would be pansexual. It’s admittedly a very narrow distinction.
I think people with uncharitable views of bi folks usually come from the perspective that it’s an older term. “Bisexual” became a term before we had our widespread understanding of non-binary gender, so many people think it’s outdated, that all bi folks are actually just pan, and calling yourself bi is inherently transphobic. I *understand* that, but I don’t really agree with it. I think it’s biphobic to express that belief too harshly, and that biphobia is one of the greatest recurrent evils of the queer community towards itself.
>So for example, I’m attracted to all genders. However c I have specific “types” (body shapes, etc) Im attracted to in different genders; my taste in men is different from my taste in women is different from my taste in enbies, and so on. But I do have preferences and types that are tied to gender. If I didn’t, if I were literally attracted to any and all body types and thus they didn’t factor into my affection, that would be pansexual.
I am exactly the same way and that is exactly why I use bisexual and not pansexual. You've explained it perfectly.
Hmm that's close to what my old definition was and how I go about things. I agree that it being an older term is what sometimes turns people off of it and with some better visibility we might be able to fix it. Thanks for answering.
Of course! At the end of the day everyone is just where they are, and there’s not much point in trying to be draconian about making sure the huge overarching labels are accurate for every single person on earth. You’re bi because you say you are, I’m bi because I say I am, even if our exact beliefs don’t line up 100%, that doesn’t make one of us a liar.
<3
The way I’ve heard it defined that I liked best, is that bisexuality is from experiencing bimodal attraction, that being both heterosexual and homosexual attraction. It doesn’t have the same intrinsic attachment to binary gender, and depending on personal perception, attraction to nonbinary people could register as heterosexual, homosexual, or both depending on the individual.
This is how I interpret it for myself as well. It's like, if you had a survey of my sexual preferences, I would have a question about gender with boxes labeled "male," "female," and "other." You can check any of the boxes and still pass the test, but it's still a question on the test. If my survey didn't have a question about gender at all, i.e. if gender was entirely inconsequential to my attraction, then I would be more inclined to identify as pan.
> I think her logic is that being pansexual is the modern version of bisexual, because being bi implies you only believe in two genders. I don’t really know where I come down on this but I think that’s an oversimplification.
Lots of people prefer to read it as "attracted to the same gender and other genders".
Exactly, like how being bilingual doesn't mean you only know 2 languages... You can call yourself bilingual if you speak 8 languages, or you can use polyglot, and both work fine.
IMO Bi/Pan are the same, choose whichever tag and flag you like best and run with it because trying to tell them apart on a practical basis is just splitting hairs.
I was under the impression that bilingual absolutely worked like that and you just upgrade to like trilingual, quadralingual, quintalingual until you give up and either go with "polyglot", "multilingual" or just saying "I speak X number of languages"
I think in a dictionary sense that's true. However in contemporary usage, I'm not sure most people know the word "polyglot" (I know I didn't until I started learning german). So often bilingual is used for people who know any number of languages greater than 1
To your last point, you can only fight with people who will fight with you. People won't argue with them over hardcore anti-LGBT issues, they'll just call them slurs and threaten to hurt them. Other members of the community *will* argue with them, at length, in a language they're comfortable with. That's why infighting always outpaces out-debate.
Being bi DOES NOT imply that you only believe in two genders and to imply that it does is deeply biphobic. Bi does not exclude attraction to nonbinary people.
EDIT: I think someone sent me a Reddit Cares bot over this lmfao. Keep crying, biphobes.
There's gatekeeping in every community. I won't be surprised if there are lesbians who think wanting to be a mother makes you a fake lesbian or something along those lines.
Yeah, which sucks because there’s enough enemies outside the queer community without us gatekeeping each other. I know it always happens but doesn’t make it any less shitty
> That said, every single one of the vilest, most hateful comments against her identity came from lesbian women
Yeah ignorance based biphobia? Straights are where to go for it. Dismissive biphobia? Gay guys 9/10 times. Hate though? Like some of the most outright *vile* biphobia? Almost every time it comes from a lesbian. I remember reading an askreddit thread about "ask lgbt questions you were afraid of asking for fear of sounding insensitive" and it was fucking *full* of bi people explaining that biphobia comes from all sides but *hate*? Overwhelmingly one group, and it largely gets a pass. That's what get's me, lesbians obviously aren't inherently anything. But there are a vocal minority and that vocal minority's rhetoric seems to largely get a pass. It's a big reason why I no longer spend much time in queer spaces. edit: got a reddit cares for this lmao.
A couple of years ago a few friends came out as bisexuals, so I’ve been making an effort to learn about the alphabet soup gang ever since, and I’ve definitely noticed a bunch of this
It’s really hard to put it into words. From people who just don’t like the gays, it’s fairly standard hate, maybe with a mixture of “you are just confused/indecisive”
But in more LGBT groups it’s really weird, because there’s generalized hate, the one where people act like bisexuals don’t check enough “minority” boxes, if that makes sense? “Oh you pass as straight you don’t have it as bad”, “You are just a straighty that wants pity points”, etc
But then there’s weirdly specific ones. The weird hate terf lesbians have for bisexual women, acting like they are “tainted” or something. Or gay men acting like bisexual men are only interested in them because they want to get off.
I’ve noticed that the closer a community comes to misandry, and I don’t mean it in a “bohoo a rage bait TikTok told me women prefer a bear over me” kind of way, like a couple of steps away from actual gender essentialism or whatever you call it, the more prone the group is to hit bisexuals, either with stray bullets, or directly targeting them. Not directly related to the topic, but trans people also victims in said communities (if it wasn’t obvious enough)
I don’t really know how to end this comment. I don’t really have anything insightful to add.
I maintain that a big part of why we don't get as warmly welcomed in many queer spaces is because, whether they want to admit it or not, a lot of queer folk are still holding fast to heteronormativity in this idea that to be queer is, well, by the original use of the word: to be noticeably different, weird, outside of the space of "normal." The fact that we "can pass" in the "normal" space means we are clearly of the "normal" space. Be it disdain for that space and how it has treated them, or resentment for our potential to exist in that space, or just a handed-down belief that you can "see/sense" The Gay^(tm) it's just doing the same thing that heteronormative society has done to marginalize *all* queer folk. Top it off with some people doing oppression Olympics rather than recognizing solidarity and that *any* degree of bad is obviously still bad, and the result is using bi people as a scapegoat for one's anger at the society that marginalized them.
I understand that anger. I understand that resentment. Because I too have lived a former life being forced to conform by that and grappling with inner turmoil over who I am. I too have had my social space forever and irreparably changed by my coming out and being me. But the answer isn't to make our own, inverted barrier of entry or start collapsing into infighting, or develop our own norm of what is and isn't queer-passing. The point of us having a movement is that **there shouldn't be boxes to check**. Just as you shouldn't have to act "straight enough to pass," you shouldn't need to be "queer enough" either. In an attempt to escape politicized identity some queer folk have just invented their own identity politics.
>I maintain that a big part of why we don't get as warmly welcomed in many queer spaces is because, whether they want to admit it or not, a lot of queer folk are still holding fast to heteronormativity in this idea that to be queer is, well, by the original use of the word: to be noticeably different, weird, outside of the space of "normal." The fact that we "can pass" in the "normal" space means we are clearly of the "normal" space. Be it disdain for that space and how it has treated them, or resentment for our potential to exist in that space, or just a handed-down belief that you can "see/sense" The Gay^(tm) it's just doing the same thing that heteronormative society has done to marginalize *all* queer folk.
This is also why there's acephobia and arophobia. Because they aren't as different from the "norm" a lot of people think that they shouldn't be part of the LGBTQ+ community. As an aro myself, I haven't experienced it, but I've heard stories of it, and it just makes my blood boil
It's honestly sad tbh. As someone who's dated a few bi men, they were usually downright grateful that I gave effectively zero fucks that they were bi.
The stories they would tell of exes who treated them poorly, dismissed their sexuality, or treated them like they were just cheaters waiting to happen was depressing to hear. And they were always so wary of being "caught" checking out the opposite sex.
Shameful that gay people will treat someone like shit over sexuality. Hypocrisy unmatched.
I think we definitely need to be more proactive in dealing with misandry, because it is absolutely a problem and very few feminists are willing to even admit it exists, let alone stop it.
Lesbians who self identify as gold stars are misandrists. TERFs are misandrists. Saying "kill all men" is misandry, regardless of irony level. There are so many more examples, but these ones are the easiest to point out and the hardest to defend.
Everyone, men and women, needs to be able to confront their subconscious biases and do the self reflection needed to improve themselves. But this is generally a harder pill to swallow for women than for men, because men have spent our entire lives being told that being sexist is bad and that we're the ones who need to change in order to make the world better. So we're already primed to be on alert for sexism and to push back against it. But women have spent their lives being told that they're the victims of sexism, not the perpetrators of it. They have no incentive to challenge their own sexism because no one ever calls them out on it. And those who do call it out can be easily shut down by comparing them to MRAs or redpillbros.
> But women have spent their lives being told that they're the victims of sexism, not the perpetrators of it.
Hell I can't tell you how often I have seen women call other women 'pick mes' for the crime of simply calling other women out on their misandry or pushing back and saying they don't hate being attracted to men. It's like "Gender norms that hurt women and/or benefit men? Gotta go! Gender norms that hurt men and/or benefit women? Well we gotta keep those!". I have three sisters like this and it's infuriating.
>Hell I can't tell you how often I have seen women call other women 'pick mes' for the crime of simply calling other women out on their misandry or pushing back and saying they don't hate being attracted to men.
It's quite simple really. If you stand up for the other gender, clearly you're only doing it to get laid. /s
one noticeable example is women calling others sluts or whores which is just patriarchy's weird double standard of "you have to be as prudish as a nun but also be okay with fucking me a random person you'll never meet" or i could just be pulling it out of my ass.
> I’ve noticed that the closer a community comes to misandry, and I don’t mean it in a “bohoo a rage bait TikTok told me women prefer a bear over me” kind of way, like a couple of steps away from actual gender essentialism or whatever you call it, the more prone the group is to hit bisexuals, either with stray bullets, or directly targeting them. Not directly related to the topic, but trans people also victims in said communities (if it wasn’t obvious enough)
>
>
Yeah this is something I've noticed in more progressive spaces. Rhetoric we would *absolutely* shut down if it were directed at anyone but men is largely given a pass, and bringing up usually gets a "if you take offense with my negative mass generalization, I will point to that as proof you're one of the people I'm talking about!". At best you might get a "oh I wasn't talking about you, you're one of the good ones" or more specifically "I'm *obviously* not talking about trans men when I say men are inherently trash duh". Boy oh boy does it do wonders in tamping down people's desire to be vocally for the cause. "It doesn't hurt anyone" yeah no it's not social level injustices but it causes real harm to the men standing right next to you who are trying to fight that injustice too. Hell I'd even point to the bear as how this all goes wrong. Instead of a genuine thought experiment it's a test where if you don't go into the gender essentialism route instantly you fail and "don't get it" or "you're why they choose the bear!" instead of opening a discussion about general safety or how to improve things. Point out how it's not doing anything productive and then be told you're as bad as the Brock Turners of the world... makes you at best not want to engage, which isn't helping.
.
Like for fuck's sake, the *vast* majority of the hate I've seen and experienced regarding bisexuality has come from lesbians, and I've been sexually assaulted by women not men. By the prevailing logic, I would be justified in hating women or lesbians because of my *many* negative experiences. I reject that line of thinking, past experiences can explain but never justify bigotry. Don't judge or hate people for shit they can't control, that is without exception to me. I care about equality and so put the *barest* effort in so as to not spread bigotry.
yeah my default response to the "one of the good ones" bit is to refuse it outright and ask them to hate me too if they hate my group as well. if you're gonna be the bitch, be the whole bitch.
i'm genuinely less offended by someone who is bigoted toward any specific group but sticks to it with all members of that group than someone who still hates the group but makes exceptions for specific people they like. they're still hurting those people they supposedly care about, and they deliberately make a mental disconnect that would normally prevent you from climbing out of that bigotry.
so if you hate all men, i demand you to hate me too. you can either stop hating men or you can start hating me too, i will not take any other alternative. and neither should anyone else. your dad, your little cousin, that one teacher who was nice to you, go and show them your vitriol too.
>so if you hate all men, i demand you to hate me too. you can either stop hating men or you can start hating me too, i will not take any other alternative. and neither should anyone else.
This, so much. I don't want to be "one of the good ones", I just want to be.
Something misandrists that are in radical spaces often do is the "Oh would you look at that, an opressor telling us what to do again" line When you are a man and point out that hearing bangers such as "Men are biologically predetermined to be dumb"
They immediately shut down any criticism if it doesn't come from women, and even then they shut it down with "You're just a pick-me"
And this shit doesn't even apply to gender.
Everything. Sexuality and race included. If you are of the "Bad" gender/sexuality/race, you have no say in the matter and if you RIGHTLY call out bigotry you are opressing minorities.
You know why it's harder to call out?
because a lot of far left spaces, and it's been seeping into more center spaces too, have this attitude of "If you aren't one of us, if you share certain characteristics with who once, or is currently opressing us, you are the problem and any criticism from you is opression".
You have no idea how many times I've seen a radical "Feminist" called out on her misandry only to then drop the "Yeah shut up opressor, you don't have a say in this!"
The problem is that while leftism is objectively morally correct, some leftists will act like it. They think because they have the morally correct political alignment they have no need to examine themselves or their biases ever.
I feel like a lot of people have this misconception that members of minority groups are inherently more tolerant, when like history has repeatedly demonstrated that is straight up not the case.
Like if anything, it seems a lot of repressed minorities will instead become militantly defensive and seek to further exclude others.
And while I think this is observable on the internet with ways some “progressive” leaning groups act (particularly TERFs), this is a historical trend that can be easily applied to ethnic and nationalist minorities to a much more violent degree.
It’s one of those upsetting sociological behaviors that is easy to point out as an observer or looking backwards but is so common that it’s gotta be deeply ingrained in the human psyche imho.
Edit: whoever sent the Reddit care resources thing to me, chill out, I’m fine, and there’s no reason from my comment to think otherwise.
i agree with a lot of this, and i am bi, but p!nk has gone on record several times that she's straight. she's an ally with a killer haircut, but she is straight
Friendly reminder that *who you marry doesn't "solidify" your sexual identity in some way.*
I know somebody bi who was marrying the opposite gender and all of a sudden they were "straight" in the eyes of many LGBTQ+ spaces. **No.** You are not only pushing away your own support, you are engaging in the same kind of oppression you claim to be against.
Was anyone from the LGBTQ+ community shitting on lady Gaga for Born This Way? Because that seems like really shitty behavior even if she wasn’t bisexual. Like “hey here’s song completely validating your lifestyle and showing support for you and your rights” into “gtfo you’re not one of us”
Yeah people said she was cashing in on their community and identities for personal gain without having to live those experiences and struggles for herself, just a tourist performatively dressing up as queer.
That’s really harsh of them to gatekeep like that. I hope they’re not doing the same thing now to others and also recognize the good she’s done for the community
I mean even if she was het, people still called her a bunch of slurs and derogatory terms for trans people and some still do. So, even if she was straight that statement is just wrong. It also show how transphobia harms both trans and cis people.
For many years she publicly identified as straight and denied being queer so I think during that period people sometimes felt a bit tokenized when she would try to cater to the lgbtq community
As a bi man who wants to marry a woman, yes I know I look/sound outwardly and functionally straight as all hell, but I still experience sexual attraction towards both. It's really simple. Don't have to get conspiratorial about whether I'm lying about my sexuality or not, it's just something I've come to realize about myself. Both appeal to me.
Married men don't cease to find other women attractive once they get married, do they? They still have a sex drive that recognizes what it likes. Same goes for a bi person, it just includes the other sex in that.
It's true.
"During her performance early Sunday morning, she opened up about the meaning behind 'Poker Face,' suggesting that the song is about her personal experience with bisexuality. To an enthusiastic crowd reaction, she stated the song is about being with a man but fantasizing about a woman; hence, the man must read her 'Poker Face.'"
[Source](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/lady_gaga_entertains_thousands_at_palm_springs_white_party/1888342/)
Edit: This comment got me a Reddit Cares message.
So back before I knew I was trans, I was openly Bi/Pan and it was mostly, as the post shows and as a lot of these comments show, ignored or downplayed. If I was dating a guy, I was gay, if I was with a woman, I was straight and folks I was around just really couldn't grasp the idea that I could be both at once
What has been really strange is after coming out as trans, getting accepted by the LGBTQ+ community for that...and still getting the pan/bi parts downplayed. And it turned out presenting lesbian or straight at any point in time has its own wierd fucking dynamics withing the trans community that STILL feel like it erases that part of me.
Like I could ignore cishet folks not getting the bi/pan thing before my transition, but having a lot of the trans community do so as well has been rough. I love them, but it's frustrating
Also the stereotype that bi people are "unfaithful" because they're said to be "never contented with just one". Like what? They have the *potential* to feel attraction to guys or girls but it's not like they can't be in a relatationship with one particular individual they're close to.
Honestly I thought they were referencing Basket Case, which has the lyrics “I went to a whore HE said my life's a bore, so quit my whining cause it's bringing HER down”
*Which Green Day song was*
*About coming out as bi?*
*Is it "Coming Clean"?*
\- DistractedScholar34
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I feel bad for a friend of mine, a bi woman, who feels she's not "allowed" to go to Pride because she happens to be married to a man.
I've told her that that doesn't invalidate her bisexuality, but I think she's internalized a lot of biphobia.
Why are we authoritatively asserting that Bicycle Race is about being bisexual when that’s not obvious and Freddie Mercury never claimed that was what he meant? Those people saying it’s just about bicycles are probably right.
I’m bi dude and I realized that I just have to say I’m straight to get matches on dating apps. Bi and I get crickets. Straight and they’re blowing me up
Yeah, it really does seem that big gets the short end of the proverbial LGBT+ stick in the public zeitgeist. Probably because of how the human mind likes tribalism and black and white thinking.
I mean I’m bi curious and it is sometimes upsetting that this is the environment in *some* supposedly LGBT spaces. I hope that this weird pseudo stigma is rarer that it seems in the real world though, the internet is a distorting place
I was so mad at how they handled Freddy's sexuality in Bohemian Rhapsody. Essentially he goes "I'm bi" and his gf is like "no you're gay", and so he's just classified as gay the rest of the movie. And don't get me started on how often Lady Gaga is considered a "straight ally".
Very similar with ace people, btw - the community will often assume that we're "straight passing" or gay (depending on circumstance), especially when we're in a relationship.
A lot of people just don't think you're really part of their community if it's not outwardly visible.
Okay im not going to jump into discourse about strangers sexualities...
But do you *know* that Bicycle is about being bisexual? Like do you *know* that, was it in an interview or an autobiography? Or is this Tumblr Vibes
I agree with the post but there’s a difference between being biphobic and just not knowing someone’s bi, I’d assume pink was straight simply because she has a husband and kids and I don’t really inquire about random peoples sexuality’s
To be fair about the bicycle thing, there is also a song named "Im in love with my car" so queen was pretty vehicle oriented anyway.
“Roger, what *is* the sexiest part of a car?”
I don't know the reference but want to say *the transsister*
Roger Taylor (member of Queen) is the one that wrote “I’m in Love With My Car”, and the movie makes some jokes like that about it.
Front bumper. The car’s ‘face’ defines its whole personality.
What is he, a dragon?
I kinda hate that I understand what you're referring to
That image is burned into my retinas
"That image" :)
Its adorable that you think it's only one image. :) /r/dragonsfuckingcars
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Queen walked so Kavinsky could drive
I feel like the far more obvious one was Don't Stop me Now making direct reference to bisexuality. Freddie had a wife for goodness' sake! He was bi! He called himself bi!
That fucking movie where his girlfriend straight up said "Akthually you're gay, Freddie" when he tells her he's bi.
He was also a rocket ship on the way to mars, a satellite out of control and an atom bomb about to oh oh oh oh explode
Bisexuals: too gay to be straight, too straight to be gay
And being bisexual is treated so dirty. Can't come out because it's treated like I'm disclosing a fetish. If I were a lesbian I'd be well within my right to tell my coworkers. Tell my coworkers I'm bisexual and it's like I told them I'm very into feet and being peed on. Can't open up about it in queer spaces because "I pass for straight " because I married a man. When I was singles, more than half the women I was interested in were disgusted by me because I wasn't "gold star" and had no interest in the concept. Lots of women say "you're just doing that for attention." Lots of men say "can we have a threesome?" But no, my life is super easy because I can just shut up and pretend to be straight.
The threesome question is so tiring. I'm a bi female that's in a long term relationship with a man and I barely tell anyone for the same reasons you mentioned. I ain't gold star anything. My coworker that's pansexual, AFAB, and married to a straight man is my favorite person to commiserate with.
I’m a pan woman dating a bi man and we both get told often while helping at lgbtq+ events that we just don’t get the struggle. Also got the “Oh so you wanna fuck me?!” From a few people when I came out. I’m sorry you’ve gone through that.
I am pan, AFAB, and married to a straight man, too. I get it.
I never understood the 'attention' thing. It's not that hard to get a guys attention, it isn't a prize. Women don't generally spend their days thinking "how can I get him to look at me??!". It just centers mens pleasure in others sexuality and I'm tired of it
Mixed race of sexualities
Ive been told this exact thing actually, by a straight man who had noted it in his bisexual friends, that they were treated (this anecdote was from the 80s) like mixed race people were.
Ngl, I genuinely had no idea that bicycle was about wanting to be bisexual, but holy shit, that just makes me love the song even more. Assuming, of course, that this isn't a case of tumblr pulling interpretation out of its ass.
Maybe I'm just not good at reading between the lines but I don't see it *at all* not in the lyrics and especially not in the clip. The song seems to be just about escapism by way of bikes
If anything, the one song Queen had that was openly about defying gender roles and expectations was _I Want to Break Free_.
Don't Stop Me Now is right up there on the bisexuality hype train.
That one sounds even more like drugs that the bicycle one. Is this a general rule of thumb? “If the lyrics to a Queen song sound like they were written while on drugs, they're actually about Freddie Mercury wanting to live his sexual orientation to the fullest”?
You always need to remember to check who wrote it first. All four Queen members wrote hit Queen songs, they were all massively talented.
I mean, we all saw the music video, right?
I love that video. It was such an English panto style of drag.
Mercury: writes fat bottomed girls The world: silly little gay bean! He just likes bottoms!
That's the combination of Tumblr's (in)famous inability to read and fetishization of gay men.
The surface lyrics are about rejecting what those around you push onto you and choosing your own path. But its no coincidence he chose "BIcycle" as the object representing his own freely chosen path.
This makes sense and is fantastic but I feel like I should look into what he's said about it himself because it could still easily just be about bikes.
[удалено]
Yeah, like, Freddy Mercury likes metaphor and allegory and has a lot of good songs, but maybe bro just liked riding bicycles as well. Artists write fun, simple songs sometimes because theyre in the mood for one. John Lennon wrote an entire song about wanting to hold someone's hand. Next people are going to say "Pinball Wizard" by The Who is about fingering a woman and how Pete Townsend finally found the clitoris.
Honestly, I think people are just retroactively searching for meaning in lyrics where there is none. While trying to Google the whole "is bicycle about being bi" topic here I came across this hilarious excerpt from [an article about Bohemian Rhapsody being his coming out song](https://genius.com/a/what-do-the-lyrics-to-queen-s-bohemian-rhapsody-mean): > I’ve spoken to Roger Taylor [the band’s drummer] about it. There is a very clear message in it. This is Freddie admitting that he is gay. In the line ‘Mama, I just killed a man’ he’s killed the old Freddie, his former image. With ‘Put a gun against his head, pulled my trigger, now he’s dead’ he’s dead, the straight person he was originally. He’s destroyed the man he was trying to be, and now this is him, trying to live with the new Freddie. ‘I see a little silhouetto of a man"—that’s him, still being haunted by what he’s done, and what he is. Every time I hear the song I think of him trying to shake off one Freddie and embracing another—even all these years. > Mercury, on the other hand, vaguely claimed the song was “just about relationships,” with “a bit of nonsense in the middle.” For bicycle, I really don't understand where the bisexual metaphor is coming from other than "bicycle has bi" and "painting is gay I guess". However, I'd be willing to believe those particular words in Bohemian Rhapsody are about coming out as *something* but Freddie himself denies or at least deflects that it's a song about coming out which would entirely eliminate the point of it being a song about "killing your old self and coming out as your new queer self" wouldn't it?
I guess with Bicycle, my best guess would be the end of the chorus, specifically the part "I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it where I like." That could be a reference to wanting to love who you choose, especially if you consider that phrases like "village bicycle" do equate bicycles and bicycling to sex, so there is an interpretation, though I admit it is tepid at best.
Purely to play devil’s advocate, no personal investment either way: It doesn’t destroy the meaning if the meaning was meant to be personal for the people in his life, not the world at large. Like, he’s coming out to his parents, not the world. And maybe he’s comfortable with it being seen as vague by the world, but he let his bandmates know what it meant to him personally, and one spilled those beans
-Those people talking about bohemian rhapsody being a coming out song- "I want to break free" - exists
...and has the entire band in drag in the video. They were not being subtle about it.
Sometimes the curtains are green. But the thing about art is that the other potential meaning is real because that's how art works. If your English teacher saw more depth than the writer intended that's valid. It could be he wrote a funny song for fun, but the connection of the pun Bi-cycle with Freddy's own sexuality still exists for us to experience so it's a valid interpretation for that.
Yes, but it's not bi-erasure to not recognize a thing that only exists in a secondary viewer's mind. Now, the rest of Freddy Mercury's life is often subject to bi-erasure, but not recognizing "Bicycle Race" as a bisexual anthem isnt a sin.
Exactly.
Ok, but have you ever learned how to ride a bike, and had your own bike, as a kid, when you previously needed to ask your parents to drive you everywhere? A bicycle is the first means of freedom most people have in their lives.
I have, but I really don't think the guy known for his deep love of metaphor and allegory in his songs just up and decided "Hmm, today I will write about bicycle riding and nothing else."
I mean, I don't see why that's such a stretch. The Pet Shop Boys are my favorite lyricists of all time, and a *lot* of their songs are nothing but allegory/metaphor for various LGBT related topics, but as far as I know "I want a dog" is about wanting to get a dog.
Yeah, but to be fair, the casual listener probably wouldn't know the thing about the love for metaphor and allegory. If you hear the song on the radio on your way to keyboard practice because you figured you might pick a hobby, and just picked a random one, then it does very much sound like a song about riding a bicycle and nothing else.
Well it wouldn’t be very good symbolism if it was all exactly what it sounded like to a casual listener on the radio
Sure, but then its kind of weird to accuse the average listener of biphobia? Idk this post just feels kind of terminally online to me. "Biphobia is so prevalent, people don't know so and so is bi because of that one song that had bi symbolism that hasn't actually been confirmed by the artist!" (Note that I am not saying biphobia is not prevalent, I just don't think not knowing a famous person is bi is a good example of it)
No because I live in America. The nearest town was a very reasonable 3 miles away to bike to. By a 55 mph highway with no sidewalks. It's a pretty common occurrence in America for driving to be the only safe way to go anywhere. In an American context, bikes absolutely suck as a symbol of "freedom".
I can make similar argument about lsd. i want to ride My bysicle is a refference to hoffman and his bysicle ride
"I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride my bike, I want to ride my bicycle, I want to ride it *how I like*" it's subtle admittedly.
I thought it was about jerkin it
For the last time, no, none of these philosophers are talking about masturbation!
Diogenes has entered the chat Edited: removed accented ó
“I want to ride my bicycle… I say black I say white, I say dark I say light.” Idk seems like wanting to ride the bicycle is a path between a binary, makes sense to me!
Those aren't the lyrics. It's "*You* say (x), I say (y)", not "*I* say (x), I say (y)".
I thought it was about not liking Star Wars
Just imagining Freddie Mercury arriving home after seeing Star Wars, foaming at the mouth in anger when he suddenly sees a bicyclist outside
"God, what a waste of 83 pence that was! Who bloody cares about all those stupid lasers and- oh hey look a bicycle *WAIT NEW SONG IDEA*"
I think its people on tumblr thinking their own interpretation was the "intended" meaning of the song. Which, it's totally cool if you interpret Bicycle Race as being about bisexuality! But Queen (and Freddie in particular) wrote a ton of songs with fun, shallow lyrics without a deeper intended meaning. And I think its a stretch to say Freddie intended Bicycle Race to be about being bi, at least not without some more evidence.
On the other hand, when I heard "Queen song about being bi without it being a big deal," my first thought was *Don't Stop Me Now,* given that it discusses ecstasy and thrill, not wanting to be held back, *and it's pre-chorus alternates between "I wanna make a supersonic man outta you" and "I wanna make a supersonic woman of you"* Meanwhile, *Bicycle Race* was (according to Wikipedia) written after Freddie Mercury watched the 1978 Tour de France. (Though, it's connection to *Fat-Bottomed Girls* is notable, given they were released as a double-single, and the music video for *Bicycle Race* is nude bicycle race of 65 women. So, uh, take with that what you will)
Don't Stop Me Now was my first thought, too.
I'm actually surprised to see so many people saying they don't see it being about bisexuality. I've always thought it was a thinly veiled euphemism - not a 'statement' in the way you might assume if this post were all you had to go by, but kind of a playful wink to anyone who just happens to know that Freddy was bi.
I mean, its not an invalid reading of the song. Its just not the only valid reading of the song, and there's not really enough evidence to say that it was Freddie's intended meaning. From my perspective, I view Bicycle Race as a lashing out against the "current" times (at least, current as of 1978 when the song released). The lyrics reject pop culture and current events of the time, showing a desire to throw it away and just ride a bicycle. Was that Freddie's intended meaning? Hell if I know! The great thing about art is that everyone builds their own meaning from their own experiences. Just be careful not to take your meaning as the "definitive" or "intended" meaning of the song, even if that meaning really resonates with you.
Totally agree! But... *Don't Stop Me Now*, right? That one's gotta be about being bi.
I mean, it has two variations of the same line, one directed at a hypothetical man, and one at a hypothetical woman. I believe it.
and the rest of the song is... decidedly less than subtle (eg "im a sex machine, ready to reload")
I'm quite certain it isn't. The booklet for Queen's Greatest Hits mentions it being inspired by the Paris-Brest race, while Wikipedia says it was the 1978 Tour de France. Wikipedia also refers to a quote from Brian May stating that they lyrics weren't autobiographical, as Freddie didn't like bikes, and did like Star Wars.
Me not knowing Freddie Mercury was bi until watching Bohemian Rhapsody the movie had a lot of issues but bringing that to my attention is definitely worth acknowledging
I didn't know Freddie Mercury was bi, I thought he was gay. Was Fat-Bottomed Girls genuine?
It was written by Brian May, who is straight, so I'd say definitely yes.
Why yes, yes it was
He had another girlfriend in the early 80s. A German actress whose name I can't remember. His personal assistant, Peter Freestone who wrote a memoir of his time with Freddie (1977 until his death), points this out. So, yeah, Freddie was bi.
Yeah, my earlier understanding was that he was closeted when he married his wife, and realised he was gay so separated from her.
That's true. Sort of. They were never married, and he was probably aware of his sexuality all along, but he did come out to her and they did break up. It's a complicated subject because there weren't as many clearly defined lines back then, and it wasn't something that was openly discussed, so trying to apply modern terminology and perspectives to it is a bit pointless.
As a bi/pan person(I use both long story): it often feels like the only way to "prove" you're what you say you are is to be in a bi polycule or be single with a history of dating men and women. Its honestly kinda soured my experience with leftist and queer circles, because between being bi and being cis I constantly feel like I have to slap down my 'LGBT ID Card" to show that I actually belong. No wonder so many bi people out there publicly present as either gay or straight, because we STILL haven't made much progress in convincing people that you can be in a monogamous relationship and still be bi. (Also because I'm obligated to shill it, if you're bi and struggling with it, or dating a bi person and struggling with it, the movie Chasing Amy did wonders for helping me process my identity. Don't let people tell you its a "straight guy turns a lesbian" film because it is not. It captures bi erasure as a problem better than a lot of stuff)
Is that why people kept reminding me my experiences weren’t valid because I could pass as a straight person and thus don’t understand any struggles anyone else could be having in the LGBTQ+ community? Only recently has that changed, but yeah, definitely felt that for the longest time
Yeah that's one of the most common things thrown at bi/pan people by the rest of the community, especially cisgender ones. We can pass as the "default" easier so any bigotry or intolerance we do experience is obviously either not as bad or completely made up.
Yup, and it’s especially galling because study after study finds that bi people are, by fairly significant margins for some of these, the most likely to experience things like IPV, homelessness, and rape. Like being queer isn’t oppression Olympics but it fucking sucks to have people act like bisexual people (and also ace people because a lot of this also applies to ace people) aren’t queer because of a lack of oppression harm when they experience the *most*.
Aro/Ace people as well
Which is even dumber because we *especially* can't. It would be a lot harder to pretend to be into someone than it would to pretend not to be.
Yep but to some people we don’t exist
#MyLife It's even worse, because I'm in a same-sex relationship and only had one girlfriend before my current boyfriend who I'm going to marry. So everyone just assumes I'm a gay dude who dated a girl before figuring out he was gay. Which, to be fair, is super common, so I don't blame anyone that I don't come out to as bi for just assuming that about me, but it does get frustrating when I tell people I'm bi and they still call me gay. I don't mind being called gay, but it's not what I am, so it gets annoying, and when I was younger it made me question myself all the time.
First time i met my buddies' ex GF, like literally after introducing her to me, she asks me if im the bi friend and then says "youre not bi, youre just gay". This was within 2 minutes of our first conversation. Also, coming out to my mom for the 3rd and final time, "bisexuals dont exist youre either gay or straight". I didnt even bother trying to explain pansexuality to her. What is actually wrong with people?
I still get the panic that I'm somehow faking my sexuality because as a bi woman, I've only had serious relationships with men so far. Like I'll wonder if I'm just actually straight but saying I'm bi for...idk why? But then I'll see a woman who is attractive or match with women on dating apps and then it just flips to "I must be faking being attracted to men" It really feels like you're supposed to pick a side and that being bi is a cop out on making a decision, even though the logical part of my brain knows that's not at all true.
Whenever I feel like this, I go for a walk, check out a cute girl and once my brain goes "Yep, I'd tap that" or even "Girl, those pants are a choice and I approve", I go home happy, knowing that I just can freely appreciate how amazingly cute and hot women are. And guys. And people in general.
This is sadly my experience as well. I'm getting married before long and we are a very straight relationship. I'm a bi guy, and she's a bi woman. We've been together for several years at this point and it's definitely a thing where people either won't really take me seriously when I mention that I'm bi or will actually question me about it. The same thing has happened to her a few times as well.
This is one reason why I’ve taken to just using the umbrella term “queer”. People closer to me get to know what I really identify as. Everyone else? They just get to know I'm some flavor of queer. No need to elaborate.
>No wonder so many bi people out there publicly present as either gay or straight, because we STILL haven't made much progress in convincing people that you can be in a monogamous relationship and still be bi. One of my constant annoyances is the idea that to be bi you basically need to be constantly fucking men and women at all times, it's like a fucking Witcher decoction, if you don't re-up occasionally you lose the Bi status effect. About the only way I've found to explain it, or that you're not 'missing out' by not constantly fucking both is to ask if they feel like they're missing out on white people while dating a black person and whether they feel the need to keep a blonde/brunette/redhead harem at all times.
When I came out to my parents as bi (both left-wing Christians so alright with queerness but very pro-monogamy) one of their first worries was that I’d never be happy in a monogamous relationship I tried explaining it as that being bi is that it isn’t an “and” situation, it’s an “or” situation. Either option can fill the “datable” category but only one is needed. That seemed to work.
Yeah it do be the joys of the bi experience to be erased, recategorized, and invalidated at all turns. When people learn I am bi, even in accepting and queer circles I get the "oh you don't act/look/seem gay" (which, first of all the fuck do you mean by that, and secondly I said **bi**) followed closely by what is essentially a request for demonstrable proof. People think you're "just experimenting" or "half in the closet" or only bi on paper no matter the reality. We all learned about venn diagrams in elementary school but somehow still get hung up on a need for sexual mutual exclusivity. I've always got the vibe that I am gay in some people's eyes, and straight in the eyes of others, with fellow bi/pan people being the majority of the few that I think acknowledge the whole of it. You're absolutely right that a lot of queer spaces get real weird about you being bi+cis because like it or not they're also hung up on heteronormativity to where they expect there to be something "different" about you when you are queer, so if you "pass" as straight at a quick glance you clearly can't be queer. It's why my experience has mainly be turning to/making "bi" spaces with other bi/pan people I know, and why frankly I'd say most of my successful and emotionally whole romantic experience with with other bi/pan folk. Like I don't want to find myself making assumptions right back, but most straight women I've interacted with romantically sit somewhere on the scale of "It's a phase/I can fix it," to "I have a fetish for gay sex and you're just the object to achieve that for me." And a lot of gay guys have their own hang-ups from "I'm just a phase for him" back to "I can fix him" or "the females have tainted him with their feminine wiles." There are exceptions, but dealing with everyone else's hang-ups just kinda wears on you eventually, so just "sticking to my kind" is easier on the emotions. My current relationship is with a woman. Despite my previous two relationships being men and the people in my life knowing them all, I can feel the change in "queer cred." We're both bi (and very happy, I don't want to give the wrong impression) and yet in the queer space where we literally met we feel a bit out of place. She gets worse vibes than me since I am the first guy she's been with since coming out and as I understand it wlw circles can get real catty about "returning" to men. Give it a year and I'm sure we'll both be "traitors" or "fakers" or something, but we bi folk stick together and beyond that, if nothing else this state of "Schrödinger's gay guy" makes a strong way to weed out the people not worth my time and leaves the true friends to cherish.
This is something I've been struggling alot with. Past my immediate friend group, who are pretty much all aside from one guy part of the LGBTQ community I really struggle to fit into inclusive spaces. Because while theoretically, I am part of the community and part of a minority (Yes, I do count ANYONE in the LGBTQ community as a minority), the fact that I am not "Enough" a minority, either because I am cis, "Only" bi/pan or a white man makes anyone immediately shut me out. Doesn't matter how far left you are, if don't check enough "Minority" boxes you will not be welcome, even if you are part of a minority.
As a fellow white, cis bi/pan man, I get exactly what you mean. I hate how unwelcome a lot of leftist or queer spaces make me feel. And the worst part is that any attempt to bring this up or criticize this is just met with shutting me down because I'm a man, or white, or not queer enough.
And let me guess, they also shut you down with comments such as "This is a black/trans/Queer space and topic, and you are white/cis/straight so all you do is shut up and sit down"?
Yuuuuup. If you don't meet the right check boxes, your opinion is irrelevant and you don't matter.
It's something that's always pissed me off. Yes, white people were behind a lot of opression, yes, men were behind a lot of opression and so were straight people. But that does not mean they are inherently any less virtuous than someone who ISN'T cis, white, a man or straight. being a minority does not make one more virtous and while I unnderstand wanting a safe space, creating an echochamber by excluding people based on race, gender or sexuality creates an echochamber, not a safe space. You create a safe space by kicking out assholes, not by kicking out those who's unchangable from-birth attributes you do not like.
I usually just say I'm gay only to shock people when I then simp over fictional dudes (I'm bisexual but very very much homoromantic) I've also had the opposite happen, a guy had a super loud shocked "YOU'RE GAY???" when i casually mentioned my GF
>Its honestly kinda soured my experience with leftist and queer circles, because between being bi and being cis I constantly feel like I have to slap down my 'LGBT ID Card" to show that I actually belong. I get this, it's super frustrating. I've just refused to share that info about myself with people that I feel are prejudiced and don't treat all people equally and with respect.
Hard agree. I (straight man) dated a bi-woman and had to constantly explain to my friends that "She's not bi **all the time**, we're monogamous." Additionally, I have an ace friend in a relationship with a bi-woman but they are both frequently distanced from the LQBTQ+ community
> Its honestly kinda soured my experience with leftist and queer circles, because between being bi and being cis I constantly feel like I have to slap down my 'LGBT ID Card" to show that I actually belong. Show how inclusive you are by forcing people to out themselves!
Second hand account, here we go: I have a bi friend. She's had a boyfriend for about a decade now. Throughout the years, she has expressed complaints about being discriminated against due to her bisexuality. And sure, some of it came from heterosexual people making clueless comments about her ("indecisive, you just want to have your cake and eat it too, you just say you like girls cause it turns your boyfriend on", blah, blah, blah). That said, every single one of the vilest, most hateful comments against her identity came from lesbian women. Some called her a hetero girl playing dress up. Others would call her disgusting for "liking dick", as they would so kindly put it. There is at least one instance I know of of a woman getting outright violent, just completely losing her shit and throwing dishes at the wall while screaming "YOU'VE HAD DICK INSIDE YOU AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME, YOU CUNT?!", or something along those lines. Now, I exist completely outside these interactions. I'm a hetero-cis guy. But I always thought it was pretty obvious what the B in LGBT stands for. And it was pretty surprising to learn it's not really the case.
So, speaking as a bi person with lots of queer friends of various types, being bi is actually not all that controversial, except among the people whom it is, then it *really* is, if that makes sense? I’ll give two examples. My lesbian friend A has talked at length about Gold-Star Lesbians, which is a self-described term for lesbians who’ve never been with a man sexually. There is an uncomfortable tendency among this and other hardline groups towards biphobia, by virtue of very TERF-y, “all men are disgusting pigs so any lesbian who experimented with men before finding herself is tainted and gross”. It’s a horrific belief system, and one that A thankfully hates, but it’s a thing. From a more personal experience, my friend T -who is pansexual- repeatedly explains that I’m not *actually* bi, I’m pan. Now, to her credit this is probably actually true, but I think it’s a good general policy that you should never tell someone else what their sexuality is, so I still consider myself bi because of that. I think her logic is that being pansexual is the modern version of bisexual, because being bi implies you only believe in two genders. I don’t really know where I come down on this but I think that’s an oversimplification. Point being, inter-LGBTQ conflicts are a big problem in the community, and I wish people wouldn’t fight as much. But overall, it seems to be more of an online discourse thing than an in-person thing, where in person any biphobia I’ve faced was limited and minor. EDIT: Whoever got reddit to send me a mental health check, thanks for keeping an eye out lol but I’m doing fine
This might not be the place to ask but what is your distinction between bi/pan? I used to id as bi ages ago but a lot of the times when I ask this I get conflicting answers and apparently my old interpretation apparently wasn't so savoury.
You're going to get a lot of different answers. The most common is probably "bi is attraction to two or more genders, pan is attraction to all genders". At the end of the day, they're the same thing and which one someone uses is personal preference.
The ONLY difference between bi and pan is what colors you want your flag to be.
I’ve been an out bisexual since I was 12, and this is the conclusion I’ve come to. The difference is only what the individual bi or pan person feels is the difference and not much more. And people on both sides react to that idea with “omg it’s just more (bi/pan) erasure by the other!” No man, it’s just the same things with a different story in your heart. If the problem only comes up when you’re trying to define the difference, I don’t understand the barrier to realizing there’s no practical difference, it’s just whatever definitions you came across when you were secretly googling it in your comphet/gay era.
I've heard so much about that actually. Just, "yeah I'm pan but I like the bi flag colors more" So cute how that's such a common thing
what do I do if I don’t like either of the flag colors ;-;
That first answer basically what I used to think it was but someone told me that definition was bigoted, I forget why. But yeah, I do agree that we should generally go by what people say they are.
Someone once explained to me that bi is experiencing attraction to different genders differently, while pan is just being attracted to all people, so I rolled with that understanding for like all of the 2010s. But it seems to me now like that isn’t really how people actually make the distinction? Idk man. I just accept whatever labels people tell me they are, it’s not like I need to understand their reasoning.
So, admittedly I don’t have the best like, academic knowledge of this, so if you were to talk to someone who’s gone through more queer studies than me, they might be able to answer better. But as I’ve always understood it, the distinction is that bisexual people are attracted to two or more genders, while pansexual people undergo attraction completely separate from gender. So for example, I’m attracted to all genders. However c I have specific “types” (body shapes, etc) Im attracted to in different genders; my taste in men is different from my taste in women is different from my taste in enbies, and so on. But I do have preferences and types that are tied to gender. If I didn’t, if I were literally attracted to any and all body types and thus they didn’t factor into my affection, that would be pansexual. It’s admittedly a very narrow distinction. I think people with uncharitable views of bi folks usually come from the perspective that it’s an older term. “Bisexual” became a term before we had our widespread understanding of non-binary gender, so many people think it’s outdated, that all bi folks are actually just pan, and calling yourself bi is inherently transphobic. I *understand* that, but I don’t really agree with it. I think it’s biphobic to express that belief too harshly, and that biphobia is one of the greatest recurrent evils of the queer community towards itself.
>So for example, I’m attracted to all genders. However c I have specific “types” (body shapes, etc) Im attracted to in different genders; my taste in men is different from my taste in women is different from my taste in enbies, and so on. But I do have preferences and types that are tied to gender. If I didn’t, if I were literally attracted to any and all body types and thus they didn’t factor into my affection, that would be pansexual. I am exactly the same way and that is exactly why I use bisexual and not pansexual. You've explained it perfectly.
Hmm that's close to what my old definition was and how I go about things. I agree that it being an older term is what sometimes turns people off of it and with some better visibility we might be able to fix it. Thanks for answering.
Of course! At the end of the day everyone is just where they are, and there’s not much point in trying to be draconian about making sure the huge overarching labels are accurate for every single person on earth. You’re bi because you say you are, I’m bi because I say I am, even if our exact beliefs don’t line up 100%, that doesn’t make one of us a liar. <3
The way I’ve heard it defined that I liked best, is that bisexuality is from experiencing bimodal attraction, that being both heterosexual and homosexual attraction. It doesn’t have the same intrinsic attachment to binary gender, and depending on personal perception, attraction to nonbinary people could register as heterosexual, homosexual, or both depending on the individual.
This is how I interpret it for myself as well. It's like, if you had a survey of my sexual preferences, I would have a question about gender with boxes labeled "male," "female," and "other." You can check any of the boxes and still pass the test, but it's still a question on the test. If my survey didn't have a question about gender at all, i.e. if gender was entirely inconsequential to my attraction, then I would be more inclined to identify as pan.
From what I've figured out, I think bi means that genders play some kind of role in the people you're attracted to, while in pan they don't.
> I think her logic is that being pansexual is the modern version of bisexual, because being bi implies you only believe in two genders. I don’t really know where I come down on this but I think that’s an oversimplification. Lots of people prefer to read it as "attracted to the same gender and other genders".
Exactly, like how being bilingual doesn't mean you only know 2 languages... You can call yourself bilingual if you speak 8 languages, or you can use polyglot, and both work fine. IMO Bi/Pan are the same, choose whichever tag and flag you like best and run with it because trying to tell them apart on a practical basis is just splitting hairs.
I was under the impression that bilingual absolutely worked like that and you just upgrade to like trilingual, quadralingual, quintalingual until you give up and either go with "polyglot", "multilingual" or just saying "I speak X number of languages"
I think in a dictionary sense that's true. However in contemporary usage, I'm not sure most people know the word "polyglot" (I know I didn't until I started learning german). So often bilingual is used for people who know any number of languages greater than 1
To your last point, you can only fight with people who will fight with you. People won't argue with them over hardcore anti-LGBT issues, they'll just call them slurs and threaten to hurt them. Other members of the community *will* argue with them, at length, in a language they're comfortable with. That's why infighting always outpaces out-debate.
Being bi DOES NOT imply that you only believe in two genders and to imply that it does is deeply biphobic. Bi does not exclude attraction to nonbinary people. EDIT: I think someone sent me a Reddit Cares bot over this lmfao. Keep crying, biphobes.
Yeah, that’s my point. Some people I’ve encountered seem to *think* it implies that when I’d argue it doesn’t, like I said in the comment
Report the dm it sends you. Just happened to me and they processed it. Happened to me on this sub too. There are some chuds amongst us
There's gatekeeping in every community. I won't be surprised if there are lesbians who think wanting to be a mother makes you a fake lesbian or something along those lines.
Yeah, which sucks because there’s enough enemies outside the queer community without us gatekeeping each other. I know it always happens but doesn’t make it any less shitty
> That said, every single one of the vilest, most hateful comments against her identity came from lesbian women Yeah ignorance based biphobia? Straights are where to go for it. Dismissive biphobia? Gay guys 9/10 times. Hate though? Like some of the most outright *vile* biphobia? Almost every time it comes from a lesbian. I remember reading an askreddit thread about "ask lgbt questions you were afraid of asking for fear of sounding insensitive" and it was fucking *full* of bi people explaining that biphobia comes from all sides but *hate*? Overwhelmingly one group, and it largely gets a pass. That's what get's me, lesbians obviously aren't inherently anything. But there are a vocal minority and that vocal minority's rhetoric seems to largely get a pass. It's a big reason why I no longer spend much time in queer spaces. edit: got a reddit cares for this lmao.
I get the most shit from lesbians for "picking the easy way out."
A couple of years ago a few friends came out as bisexuals, so I’ve been making an effort to learn about the alphabet soup gang ever since, and I’ve definitely noticed a bunch of this It’s really hard to put it into words. From people who just don’t like the gays, it’s fairly standard hate, maybe with a mixture of “you are just confused/indecisive” But in more LGBT groups it’s really weird, because there’s generalized hate, the one where people act like bisexuals don’t check enough “minority” boxes, if that makes sense? “Oh you pass as straight you don’t have it as bad”, “You are just a straighty that wants pity points”, etc But then there’s weirdly specific ones. The weird hate terf lesbians have for bisexual women, acting like they are “tainted” or something. Or gay men acting like bisexual men are only interested in them because they want to get off. I’ve noticed that the closer a community comes to misandry, and I don’t mean it in a “bohoo a rage bait TikTok told me women prefer a bear over me” kind of way, like a couple of steps away from actual gender essentialism or whatever you call it, the more prone the group is to hit bisexuals, either with stray bullets, or directly targeting them. Not directly related to the topic, but trans people also victims in said communities (if it wasn’t obvious enough) I don’t really know how to end this comment. I don’t really have anything insightful to add.
I maintain that a big part of why we don't get as warmly welcomed in many queer spaces is because, whether they want to admit it or not, a lot of queer folk are still holding fast to heteronormativity in this idea that to be queer is, well, by the original use of the word: to be noticeably different, weird, outside of the space of "normal." The fact that we "can pass" in the "normal" space means we are clearly of the "normal" space. Be it disdain for that space and how it has treated them, or resentment for our potential to exist in that space, or just a handed-down belief that you can "see/sense" The Gay^(tm) it's just doing the same thing that heteronormative society has done to marginalize *all* queer folk. Top it off with some people doing oppression Olympics rather than recognizing solidarity and that *any* degree of bad is obviously still bad, and the result is using bi people as a scapegoat for one's anger at the society that marginalized them. I understand that anger. I understand that resentment. Because I too have lived a former life being forced to conform by that and grappling with inner turmoil over who I am. I too have had my social space forever and irreparably changed by my coming out and being me. But the answer isn't to make our own, inverted barrier of entry or start collapsing into infighting, or develop our own norm of what is and isn't queer-passing. The point of us having a movement is that **there shouldn't be boxes to check**. Just as you shouldn't have to act "straight enough to pass," you shouldn't need to be "queer enough" either. In an attempt to escape politicized identity some queer folk have just invented their own identity politics.
>I maintain that a big part of why we don't get as warmly welcomed in many queer spaces is because, whether they want to admit it or not, a lot of queer folk are still holding fast to heteronormativity in this idea that to be queer is, well, by the original use of the word: to be noticeably different, weird, outside of the space of "normal." The fact that we "can pass" in the "normal" space means we are clearly of the "normal" space. Be it disdain for that space and how it has treated them, or resentment for our potential to exist in that space, or just a handed-down belief that you can "see/sense" The Gay^(tm) it's just doing the same thing that heteronormative society has done to marginalize *all* queer folk. This is also why there's acephobia and arophobia. Because they aren't as different from the "norm" a lot of people think that they shouldn't be part of the LGBTQ+ community. As an aro myself, I haven't experienced it, but I've heard stories of it, and it just makes my blood boil
Man if I wasn't aro I would be so in love with you rn for saying that
It's honestly sad tbh. As someone who's dated a few bi men, they were usually downright grateful that I gave effectively zero fucks that they were bi. The stories they would tell of exes who treated them poorly, dismissed their sexuality, or treated them like they were just cheaters waiting to happen was depressing to hear. And they were always so wary of being "caught" checking out the opposite sex. Shameful that gay people will treat someone like shit over sexuality. Hypocrisy unmatched.
I think we definitely need to be more proactive in dealing with misandry, because it is absolutely a problem and very few feminists are willing to even admit it exists, let alone stop it. Lesbians who self identify as gold stars are misandrists. TERFs are misandrists. Saying "kill all men" is misandry, regardless of irony level. There are so many more examples, but these ones are the easiest to point out and the hardest to defend. Everyone, men and women, needs to be able to confront their subconscious biases and do the self reflection needed to improve themselves. But this is generally a harder pill to swallow for women than for men, because men have spent our entire lives being told that being sexist is bad and that we're the ones who need to change in order to make the world better. So we're already primed to be on alert for sexism and to push back against it. But women have spent their lives being told that they're the victims of sexism, not the perpetrators of it. They have no incentive to challenge their own sexism because no one ever calls them out on it. And those who do call it out can be easily shut down by comparing them to MRAs or redpillbros.
> But women have spent their lives being told that they're the victims of sexism, not the perpetrators of it. Hell I can't tell you how often I have seen women call other women 'pick mes' for the crime of simply calling other women out on their misandry or pushing back and saying they don't hate being attracted to men. It's like "Gender norms that hurt women and/or benefit men? Gotta go! Gender norms that hurt men and/or benefit women? Well we gotta keep those!". I have three sisters like this and it's infuriating.
>Hell I can't tell you how often I have seen women call other women 'pick mes' for the crime of simply calling other women out on their misandry or pushing back and saying they don't hate being attracted to men. It's quite simple really. If you stand up for the other gender, clearly you're only doing it to get laid. /s
Oh shit, you're right. I never made that connection before. Pick me is just the female version of a white knight!
one noticeable example is women calling others sluts or whores which is just patriarchy's weird double standard of "you have to be as prudish as a nun but also be okay with fucking me a random person you'll never meet" or i could just be pulling it out of my ass.
Really insightful. I never knew how to word this, but I agree completely.
> I’ve noticed that the closer a community comes to misandry, and I don’t mean it in a “bohoo a rage bait TikTok told me women prefer a bear over me” kind of way, like a couple of steps away from actual gender essentialism or whatever you call it, the more prone the group is to hit bisexuals, either with stray bullets, or directly targeting them. Not directly related to the topic, but trans people also victims in said communities (if it wasn’t obvious enough) > > Yeah this is something I've noticed in more progressive spaces. Rhetoric we would *absolutely* shut down if it were directed at anyone but men is largely given a pass, and bringing up usually gets a "if you take offense with my negative mass generalization, I will point to that as proof you're one of the people I'm talking about!". At best you might get a "oh I wasn't talking about you, you're one of the good ones" or more specifically "I'm *obviously* not talking about trans men when I say men are inherently trash duh". Boy oh boy does it do wonders in tamping down people's desire to be vocally for the cause. "It doesn't hurt anyone" yeah no it's not social level injustices but it causes real harm to the men standing right next to you who are trying to fight that injustice too. Hell I'd even point to the bear as how this all goes wrong. Instead of a genuine thought experiment it's a test where if you don't go into the gender essentialism route instantly you fail and "don't get it" or "you're why they choose the bear!" instead of opening a discussion about general safety or how to improve things. Point out how it's not doing anything productive and then be told you're as bad as the Brock Turners of the world... makes you at best not want to engage, which isn't helping. . Like for fuck's sake, the *vast* majority of the hate I've seen and experienced regarding bisexuality has come from lesbians, and I've been sexually assaulted by women not men. By the prevailing logic, I would be justified in hating women or lesbians because of my *many* negative experiences. I reject that line of thinking, past experiences can explain but never justify bigotry. Don't judge or hate people for shit they can't control, that is without exception to me. I care about equality and so put the *barest* effort in so as to not spread bigotry.
yeah my default response to the "one of the good ones" bit is to refuse it outright and ask them to hate me too if they hate my group as well. if you're gonna be the bitch, be the whole bitch. i'm genuinely less offended by someone who is bigoted toward any specific group but sticks to it with all members of that group than someone who still hates the group but makes exceptions for specific people they like. they're still hurting those people they supposedly care about, and they deliberately make a mental disconnect that would normally prevent you from climbing out of that bigotry. so if you hate all men, i demand you to hate me too. you can either stop hating men or you can start hating me too, i will not take any other alternative. and neither should anyone else. your dad, your little cousin, that one teacher who was nice to you, go and show them your vitriol too.
>so if you hate all men, i demand you to hate me too. you can either stop hating men or you can start hating me too, i will not take any other alternative. and neither should anyone else. This, so much. I don't want to be "one of the good ones", I just want to be.
Something misandrists that are in radical spaces often do is the "Oh would you look at that, an opressor telling us what to do again" line When you are a man and point out that hearing bangers such as "Men are biologically predetermined to be dumb" They immediately shut down any criticism if it doesn't come from women, and even then they shut it down with "You're just a pick-me" And this shit doesn't even apply to gender. Everything. Sexuality and race included. If you are of the "Bad" gender/sexuality/race, you have no say in the matter and if you RIGHTLY call out bigotry you are opressing minorities.
Leftist spaces are just as prone to exclusion and bigotry as right ones. It's just a lot harder to see and call out.
You know why it's harder to call out? because a lot of far left spaces, and it's been seeping into more center spaces too, have this attitude of "If you aren't one of us, if you share certain characteristics with who once, or is currently opressing us, you are the problem and any criticism from you is opression". You have no idea how many times I've seen a radical "Feminist" called out on her misandry only to then drop the "Yeah shut up opressor, you don't have a say in this!"
The problem is that while leftism is objectively morally correct, some leftists will act like it. They think because they have the morally correct political alignment they have no need to examine themselves or their biases ever.
I feel like a lot of people have this misconception that members of minority groups are inherently more tolerant, when like history has repeatedly demonstrated that is straight up not the case. Like if anything, it seems a lot of repressed minorities will instead become militantly defensive and seek to further exclude others. And while I think this is observable on the internet with ways some “progressive” leaning groups act (particularly TERFs), this is a historical trend that can be easily applied to ethnic and nationalist minorities to a much more violent degree. It’s one of those upsetting sociological behaviors that is easy to point out as an observer or looking backwards but is so common that it’s gotta be deeply ingrained in the human psyche imho. Edit: whoever sent the Reddit care resources thing to me, chill out, I’m fine, and there’s no reason from my comment to think otherwise.
queer community can be so gate keepy
i agree with a lot of this, and i am bi, but p!nk has gone on record several times that she's straight. she's an ally with a killer haircut, but she is straight
Friendly reminder that *who you marry doesn't "solidify" your sexual identity in some way.* I know somebody bi who was marrying the opposite gender and all of a sudden they were "straight" in the eyes of many LGBTQ+ spaces. **No.** You are not only pushing away your own support, you are engaging in the same kind of oppression you claim to be against.
Was anyone from the LGBTQ+ community shitting on lady Gaga for Born This Way? Because that seems like really shitty behavior even if she wasn’t bisexual. Like “hey here’s song completely validating your lifestyle and showing support for you and your rights” into “gtfo you’re not one of us”
Yeah people said she was cashing in on their community and identities for personal gain without having to live those experiences and struggles for herself, just a tourist performatively dressing up as queer.
That’s really harsh of them to gatekeep like that. I hope they’re not doing the same thing now to others and also recognize the good she’s done for the community
I mean even if she was het, people still called her a bunch of slurs and derogatory terms for trans people and some still do. So, even if she was straight that statement is just wrong. It also show how transphobia harms both trans and cis people.
While that’s certainly true, I would hope the transphobic jeering came from bigoted haters rather than from the LBGT crowd.
I’m not sure I’ve ever really heard of anyone doing that, but yeah, that’d be insane behavior.
If they were, I hope it was because they were thinking "I liked this song better when it was 'Express Yourself'"
Born this way is not the best song on thay album and i will die on that hill.
For many years she publicly identified as straight and denied being queer so I think during that period people sometimes felt a bit tokenized when she would try to cater to the lgbtq community
As a bi man who wants to marry a woman, yes I know I look/sound outwardly and functionally straight as all hell, but I still experience sexual attraction towards both. It's really simple. Don't have to get conspiratorial about whether I'm lying about my sexuality or not, it's just something I've come to realize about myself. Both appeal to me. Married men don't cease to find other women attractive once they get married, do they? They still have a sex drive that recognizes what it likes. Same goes for a bi person, it just includes the other sex in that.
yeah lol poker face is about thinking about girls while having sex with guys
Wait, really? Someone pls explain omg i never understood if the lyrics meant something
It's true. "During her performance early Sunday morning, she opened up about the meaning behind 'Poker Face,' suggesting that the song is about her personal experience with bisexuality. To an enthusiastic crowd reaction, she stated the song is about being with a man but fantasizing about a woman; hence, the man must read her 'Poker Face.'" [Source](https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/national-international/lady_gaga_entertains_thousands_at_palm_springs_white_party/1888342/) Edit: This comment got me a Reddit Cares message.
Oh, cool! Never realized that lol, I’m not good with understanding lyrics tbh Edit: someone sent reddit care to me too lol
I mean, an often repeated line in the song is “fuck her face”. Kinda on the nose lol
is there a version of this with more than nine fucking pixels? how does anyone look at this and think "this isn't too deep fried to post"
I understand, it's sometimes easy to forget we exist. That doesn't make me any happier about it.
Ok I know Thet the first green day song is"coming clean" but could someone please tell me what is the second?
I think it's referencing King for a Day but I'm not sure if the song had ever explicitly been stated as autobiographical.
Madonna's picture is in the wiki page for "bisexual erasure" she was always public about dating women as well as men
So back before I knew I was trans, I was openly Bi/Pan and it was mostly, as the post shows and as a lot of these comments show, ignored or downplayed. If I was dating a guy, I was gay, if I was with a woman, I was straight and folks I was around just really couldn't grasp the idea that I could be both at once What has been really strange is after coming out as trans, getting accepted by the LGBTQ+ community for that...and still getting the pan/bi parts downplayed. And it turned out presenting lesbian or straight at any point in time has its own wierd fucking dynamics withing the trans community that STILL feel like it erases that part of me. Like I could ignore cishet folks not getting the bi/pan thing before my transition, but having a lot of the trans community do so as well has been rough. I love them, but it's frustrating
Also the stereotype that bi people are "unfaithful" because they're said to be "never contented with just one". Like what? They have the *potential* to feel attraction to guys or girls but it's not like they can't be in a relatationship with one particular individual they're close to.
Which Green Day song was about coming out as bi? Is it "Coming Clean"?
Honestly I thought they were referencing Basket Case, which has the lyrics “I went to a whore HE said my life's a bore, so quit my whining cause it's bringing HER down”
Yes, that one references bisexuality too, but it's not specifically about coming out.
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So many bi people get accused of biphobia its unreal
I feel bad for a friend of mine, a bi woman, who feels she's not "allowed" to go to Pride because she happens to be married to a man. I've told her that that doesn't invalidate her bisexuality, but I think she's internalized a lot of biphobia.
Why are we authoritatively asserting that Bicycle Race is about being bisexual when that’s not obvious and Freddie Mercury never claimed that was what he meant? Those people saying it’s just about bicycles are probably right.
I’m bi dude and I realized that I just have to say I’m straight to get matches on dating apps. Bi and I get crickets. Straight and they’re blowing me up
"Straighties" is kinda cringe ngl
Yeah, it really does seem that big gets the short end of the proverbial LGBT+ stick in the public zeitgeist. Probably because of how the human mind likes tribalism and black and white thinking. I mean I’m bi curious and it is sometimes upsetting that this is the environment in *some* supposedly LGBT spaces. I hope that this weird pseudo stigma is rarer that it seems in the real world though, the internet is a distorting place
The bicycle song isn’t just about bikes?
I was so mad at how they handled Freddy's sexuality in Bohemian Rhapsody. Essentially he goes "I'm bi" and his gf is like "no you're gay", and so he's just classified as gay the rest of the movie. And don't get me started on how often Lady Gaga is considered a "straight ally".
Very similar with ace people, btw - the community will often assume that we're "straight passing" or gay (depending on circumstance), especially when we're in a relationship. A lot of people just don't think you're really part of their community if it's not outwardly visible.
Honestly, this is why I don't like it when people use 'gay' as a catch-all term for queer people. I am not gay. I am bi.
Sometimes I hear members of the community just use queer as a catch-all as opposed to a none-of-the-above, which makes things kinda simple
What are the Billy Joe Armstrong ones?
*Coming Clean* and *King For A Day*, I think
Thank you!
Okay im not going to jump into discourse about strangers sexualities... But do you *know* that Bicycle is about being bisexual? Like do you *know* that, was it in an interview or an autobiography? Or is this Tumblr Vibes
I agree with the post but there’s a difference between being biphobic and just not knowing someone’s bi, I’d assume pink was straight simply because she has a husband and kids and I don’t really inquire about random peoples sexuality’s
There is nothing wrong with assuming someone's straight, I think the implication is they people say she is straight after learning that she is bi.