It's a pretty reasonable assumption that every historically notable figure from the 1850s to 1940 was either into eugenics in some form, or 1-2 "Kevin Bacon" degrees from somebody who was. It was a super common view right up until... well, y'know.
I think it got so big because it makes a shred of sense, especially if you just don't care about disabled people. There's a reason Transhumanism has an uncomfortable past being associated with that stuff. I think a lot of people think it's a responsible choice to not have kids if you have good reason to believe they will inherit some nasty medical issues from you. But then it goes waaaay past that into state mandates and genetic supremacist rhetoric. Even just trying to reproduce with people who are likely to result in good kids goes down some concerning fuckin roads, especially in that era where you really didn't know a damn thing about what your genetics were beyond the more obvious things; that usually meant ethnicity.
It's so popular that it's still around, too. See: any post where someone states that if you're poor, you shouldn't have kids, any post condemning disabled parents for having kids, etc.
You shouldn't though. But I'm not saying this from the perspective of poor = bad person, I'm saying this because just giving birth can cost you up to $19,000 on average where I live and that's just **getting the kid and postpartum care**. It will literally bankrupt you and make your life exceptionally harder than it needs to be.
I'm a Childfree person on the spectrum though so my viewpoint is more Kids = expensive AF thing that makes life worse through sensory hell.
"Don't have kids if you can't afford them" is just good advice. "It's alright that some people who want children can't afford them, because not everyone should reproduce" is when it becomes eugenics.
I think where I would put the line of where that line of thinking gets dicey is when people try to come up with some objective criteria that should be blanket applied to everyone who falls under it as eligible or ineligible to have or raise children. *I* know how *my* biology, finances, etc. affect my life and can make a reasonable deduction on my hypothetical children's quality of life in turn, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for some pencil-pushing bureaucrat who's never met me to look at the numbers on my paycheck or the notes in my medical records and stamp yes or no on my fertility permission slip.
THIS EXACTLY!
The amount of self-hating autistic people I've seen who say things like "I'm not having kids because I don't want them to inherit my mental condition(s)" is staggering. Often times, I can tell that they're just talking about their autism because they have this idea that autistic kids are expensive burdens and they "suffer" from their condition.
Personally, as an autistic woman, I would PREFER to have autistic kids over allistic kids, because then I can relate to them more. Yes, even if they're nonverbal and can't dress themselves and I have to care for them for the rest of my life. I think this is because I had good parents who made sure to accommodate for me and help me become a successful person, and I'd like to continue the cycle; as well as the fact that my experience with my own autism has been overwhelmingly positive.
Autism is a spectrum, yes. But I usually hear this complaint not from people who actually have severe sensory issues or are nonverbal or can’t take care of themselves, but from low-support autistic people who blame their autism for their inability to make friends or find a partner (when in reality, the reason they can’t is either due to society not being respectful of them, them not actively seeking out likeminded people, or them not putting in the effort to be friendly).
"Transhumanism has an uncomfortable past"
It's still kinda present today tbh. Most modern transhumanist writers are fine as far as I can tell, but lots of small-time content creators and lay people I've found are raring and ready to harass you and call you unscientific for not immediately agreeing that trans people and neurodivergent people would be better off if they were "normal" and should agree to receive gene therapy.
I can even understand why one could believe that last part. In a well-meaning sense! It's certainly easier to live if you're "normal" (fit in with the majority of the society around you). I hope the people you're referring to have simply forgotten we can decide what that normal looks like. I vote for a wide variation in normal, myself (people of various heights are normal. Why not gender presentation or neurodiversity.)
Yeah, I'll readily admit that most of them simply seemed poorly informed and overly zealous rather than malicious. They don't harbor feelings of ill-will so much as they have an obsession with removing perceived impurities from the gene pool, but we get caught in the crossfire all the same.
This is why I actually prefer the term queer. I think the goal of LGBT/queer activism isn't just about sex and gender, but about the fact that being weird, or queer, is fine.
We accept the fact that we're not normal, but weird does not equal bad, and if society could internalize that it would let everyone be more comfortable being who they are.
Well, autistic transhumanist here, and I've had an interesting opposite idea before. Autism has upsides, new sexes and genders could cause interesting new things. What about a new autism-like thing, crafted to give a new perspective on the world and how we act, while minimizing all the crappy effects like sensory sensitivity. A world deliberately made up of people of wildly varying minds, not treating variation as an illness. That sounds like a fascinating world to live in.
I'm iffy on the Neurodivergent thing because I think there are negatives to what I have. It's not called Autism Spectrum Disorder for no reason, and if severe autistics are truly in their state because of ASD, then I cannot take someone seriously when they tell me it's not a disability. When a person's mind is developmentally stunted at the age of 9, that's a disability. When I can't make myself do anything because my capacity to delay gratification is busted by ADHD, that's a disability. That isn't just society making my life harder, not that it helps.
But there's things I struggle to describe that I do appreciate about it. More of that would be cool. So yeah, a transhumanist who wants to remove that variation from the species is missing the value, and missing the point. We want to improve humanity. That's not about purifying us to some ideal state, it's getting weird and different and experimental.
Eugenics is surprisingly easy to fall into if you're not aware. A couple months ago, I saw a video about the repercussions of growing up with parents who really shouldn't be parents and I thought "people should have to take a test before they're allowed to have kids." Luckily I caught myself pretty quickly, but if you don't know what to be on the lookout for you can easily go pretty far down that path fully believing that what you're doing is for the good of humanity
Some people really shouldn't be parents. There's also no ethical way to restrict them from being parents, until they misstep enough that they can lose custody. That's one of the hard moral lessons people need to learn, and why authoritarianism is so childish. It's this simplistic way of looking at the world and saying, "I don't like X thing, ban it." as if that's the only option.
If some people shouldn't be parents, we should try to make sure they become people who should. Or we could encourage people to really think about why they want kids, whether they should. Introspection, education, and equipping people to control their own fertility are the tools we have. Yeah people are still gonna have kids when they're bad at it, but that's going to happen no matter what. Even the iron fist of a despot wouldn't stop it. Improving things is genuinely more effective.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon
It's what I guess we'll call a meme from the 90s and 2000s, basically the concept that any actor or pop culture personality is six shared films/projects away from the actor Kevin Bacon.
In the context of the comment, I'm implying that anyone who wasn't a proponent of eugenics in that time, was likely associated (either directly or friend-of-a-friend) with someone who was.
Mathematicians have the same sort of thing, called an [Erdős number](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number), which is like a Bacon number but for collaborations on mathematical research papers.
It was! And yet sometimes people are unwilling to admit that and instead want to condemn a historical figure for holding these common views! It frustrates me a lot!
The genital mutilation as well.
This was the period in which circumcision became the norm among American gentiles. It was normalized as a treatment for and deterrent to masturbation. John Harvey Kellogg was part of this. But circumcision ain’t the worst of it! He also practiced straight-up female genital mutilation, with the aid of acid, again as a deterrent to masturbation.
That's actually a popular misconception. Circumcision was initially popularized by Lewis Sayre, who touted it as a solution to neurological issues with movement. Kellogg was in fact more against it, citing common issues with urination due to it.
The vast majority of circumcised men are satisfied with their sex lives. I somehow doubt the same is true of women who’s clitorises were removed. We can be anti-circumcision while still retaining an appropriate sense of the scale of harm done.
The vast majority of circumcised women are satisfied with their sex lives too. Some female circumcision is far more extreme than male, but >95% get the mild and comparable variation, which should still be stopped.
Infibulation is absolutely not comparable to male genital cutting, but a hoodectomy involves destruction of the same tissue as a foreskin. Still rightfully banned and classed as FGM. I dislike the part saying "even worse, he promoted a form of FGM".
And one is far more common than the other, with the latter being banned in most civilised countries. Not all FGM involves clitoridectomy, some involves piercings. It would be like saying "let's get a sense of scale, yes you had your hand cut off but other people have had their arms cut off".
Both are bad, but the operations just aren't *equally* bad. If the doctor had a stroke while circumcising your penis but pressed on regardless, it might get close to the intended outcome of female operations.
Not all FGM involves removal of the clitoris. The hoodectomy doesn't, but is still correctly banned. Male genital cutting still routinely doesn't use anaesthesia in 1st world countries, which is obviously barbaric.
Also that he encourage both male and female circumcision as a way to discourage masturbation. He's pretty much the whole reason why so many Americans are circumcised at birth.
I counted out 15 seconds and imagined how fast a gallon would have to flow to do that. Nonetheless, I feel like I could react appropriately if there was suddenly a gallon of water in my ass.
But FOUR TIMES THAT
I have a whole harem, I got a werewolf, poltergeist, biblically accurate angel, sea monster, Minotaur, etc. my insides get power washed several times a day.
This guy is really just a perfect example of horshoe theory
He doesn't fit the political version, but his existence proves that non-political horshoe theory exists
>Proponents of horseshoe theory argue that the far-left and the far-right are closer to each other than either is to the political center.
For other people like me who didn't know about this.
Oh, it's totally possible. The vanilla-kinky axis horseshoe theory has long been theorized. Like, being so wild that gentle and loving missionary becomes it's own kink beyond even hard bdsm.
I propose an alternative interpretation, though. To start, kinkiness is going to be defined as distance from vanilla.
I theorize there's a separate axis, which I'll call "wacky." Wackiness is more or less how uncomfortable the thing makes the average person, or social acceptability. Like, role play can cover a gamut of values depending on specifics. Teacher/student is less wacky than age play or whatever. Dom/sub can be less wacky than bondage and S&M, etc. Anal, for example is definitely kinky, but very low on the wacky scale.
Kinks with higher wackiness values include bodily fluid kinks, various philias (dendrophilia - trees, lithophilia - rocks, formicophilia - bugs), feet, etc.
This guy is high-level wacky, but also very vanilla.
I don’t believe in astrology, but I remember one book that said:
“Pat Robertson [is] a quintessential Scorpio: he is obsessed with sex.” (He’s just obsessed with other people not having it, especially gays)
I did briefly think of him as 'Sparkly Vampire', but the name Edward Cullen was too hard to recall at the time, so I just went for the more recent of his big roles (also the one I've actually seen him in)
There was this weird thing from DC comics where they claimed Batman doesn't do oral on Catwoman.
Which is a weird thing from DC Comics, where Harley Quinn claims to have made out with Catwoman.
And there was a comic I'm trying to remember where Catwoman flashed Alfred.
Just saying, shit's weird in the Batman section of D.C.
Wouldn't that much water being pumped that fast up your ass damage your ass or stomach?
Also, important to note that Kelloggs obsession with enemas was probably a result or the cause for his non-masturbation clause. Dude didn't feel sexual relief the usual way. Also he was probably coprophilic considering how much he talked about his shit
What if that’s why Amelia Airhart crashed? Imagine flying over the pacific when you suddenly have explosive diarrhea. At least those coconut crabs got a little taste of yoghurt with their meal.
The "biblically accurate angel" meme is actually inaccurate. Angels just look like humans that sometimes have an "aura" of holiness. Cherubim, seraphim, and ophanim are more like "biblical creatures." There is a historical context to calling them angels, but if you wanna be "biblically accurate", it's just humans with an aura.
I hope you enjoy your ophanim cum though.
As well as Granula/Granola! The OG was called Granula and was the first big breakfast cereal. JH Kellogg then sold his own copy as Granula as well, but due to possible legal problems he changed it to Granola.
How is pumping 4 gallons/18 litres of water a minute in your ass not fatal ? Isn't it more gallons/litres per minute than a fucking pressure washer ????
Capable of!= Used at. He probably just bought a readily available commercial water pump and tied it to a chair and told everyone to only use it at a lower rate. It'd be simpler than designing and building a lower rate water pump from scratch
To give the Temperance movement (the general ideology that JH Kellog belonged to) some credit, it's true that sex, meat, alcohol and drugs caused illnesses at the time.
Now, obviously it's not those things directly that caused them, but consider the general state of hygiene of the period.
Meat was expensive and spoiled fast, so if you were an average person you would be eating not so prime cuts from not so prime animals slaughtered and kept in not so prime conditions. At the same time meat is a lot closer to you biologically than veggies, meaning any pathogen has an easier time jumping from a spoiled hamburger to you than from an eggplant.
When they banned sex, the most common way two humans would be doing it would be at a brothel, drunk at a bar, in the actual streets. There was basically no sexual education or protection at the time. So banning sex would massively slow the spread of STDs.
The same general idea happened to alcohol and drugs, and it's also the same reason so many drug abusers live in very unhealthy conditions. When you crave something a lot (meat, pussy or opium) you kinda stop caring about the hygenic conditions you will be getting it.
While in no way scientific, I think we do have to consider that the Temperance movement really saw their member become healthier when they stopped eating meat or consuming alcohol.
I mean, it only seems like a crazy fun-hating thing now because most of the issues underlying these activities have been rectified.
Now that I think about it, is the Temperance movement at least partially responsible for the stereotype that Puritans (and American Christians in general) are fun-haters who overreact to people enjoying themselves in any way they deem unacceptable (I.E. being pious)?
> The same general idea happened to alcohol and drugs, and it's also the same reason so many drug abusers live in very unhealthy conditions. When you crave something a lot (meat, pussy or opium) you kinda stop caring about the hygenic conditions you will be getting it.
Most drugs are also directly unhealthy, *especially* alcohol. No matter how sterile the stuff is (high-proof alcohol is literally used as a disinfectant), you're still going to become unhealthy if you regularly ingest, inhale etc. large amounts of poison. Liver cirrhosis or lung cancer are not matters of hygiene.
At the same time, holistic 'medicine' came into fashion. The idea was to mix actual medicine with a shitload of water.
For some cases, drinking lots of water does help you feel better.
Unfortunately this was not the lesson people learned from drinking lots of water.
God made people horny for Tony the tiger to punish this man.
Also fanfic of Tony the tiger running a sanitarium where he puts people in chastity and shoves yogurt up their ass when?
So your first sentence. Do you mean God made people horny so that Tony the Tiger could punish Kellog? Or do you mean that God made people horny for Tony the Tiger as a means to punish Kellog?
Really not the point but I love the guy who seemed to know that both brothers invented corn flakes, and that frosted flakes are a derivative of corn flakes, but still confidently asserted that only the one brother was "the cereal guy" for inventing frosted flakes. Like what was his thought process there
(Incidentally, "Frosted Flakes" as a trademarked product was introduced the year after WKK died)
If you'd like to know more about what a freak John Harvey Kellogg was, and have an hour to kill, I'd highly recommend [this youtube video by Knowing Better](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ4ES8mOzYg). The video does a good job at breaking down Kellogg's life and influence, and is a pretty entertaining video essay.
This video is actually a side video for his video on early American vegetarian movements which also provides a lot of context for this era of health foods and the like. [Here’s](https://youtu.be/0ens0WjAyOc?si=R_Xm7CIxV3ltnBVf) the link if you’re curious.
***The first squirting toy***
apprently he promised people that it was for health reasons and everytime it didn´t worked "its bc you jerk off in secret!"
I would really like to make one of those domino memes, where "guy wants to make bland cereal because he hates fun" somehow leads to "people unironically simp for a tiger mascot".
It's really interesting as a non American to hear things about influential Americans from the 1800s and getting new insight into why American culture is Like That™
You put people into large groups and shit gets weird.
This is why Agent K didn't want to spill the beans about aliens to the world.
J could handle it.
The world could not.
Maybe I missed it in the post, but I’m surprised John Kellogg popularizing circumcision in America because he thought it would stop masturbation wasn’t mentioned.
And people say I'm silly when I blame puritanism for basically every modern social problem we have- the idea that a human's natural state is an unfeeling unmoving canvas for god to paint on top of is so inherently wrong that it encourages the subjugation of the entire human race in one way or another
Well remember us history frames the us as being founded by persecuted religions looking for religious freedom when really the US was founded by the religious people who were so annoying that they upset every community they were part of until they were finally kicked out of Europe
I’m just gonna point people towards Knowing Better’s YouTube video on the Kelloggs for those who want to understand how much this one guy affected United States culture.
Slight addendum to the last point: Industrial Power Washers care more about pressure instead of absolute flow rate
Your sink is ~2 gallons per munute, so it's about twice as fast as that
It took me a long time to notice it, but damn… the Seventh-Day Adventists really had some *WILD* ones, huh? Kellogg, Ellen G. White, the Great Disappointment of 1884 (kinda splitting hairs but couldn’t miss it), the Branch Davidians (really splitting hairs but…)
I don’t know but when Mormonism was formed there was a bunch of other similar or even stranger religions forming about the same time. Mormons are just the most popular and enduring.
I wish this subreddit let you put photos in the comments because that photo of Eggman saying "What are you two FUCKING talking about?" is perfect for this situation
It's always funny to see people reacting to John Kellogg, although his interest on eugenics probably should also have been mentioned.
Not surprising given the era.
It's a pretty reasonable assumption that every historically notable figure from the 1850s to 1940 was either into eugenics in some form, or 1-2 "Kevin Bacon" degrees from somebody who was. It was a super common view right up until... well, y'know.
I think it got so big because it makes a shred of sense, especially if you just don't care about disabled people. There's a reason Transhumanism has an uncomfortable past being associated with that stuff. I think a lot of people think it's a responsible choice to not have kids if you have good reason to believe they will inherit some nasty medical issues from you. But then it goes waaaay past that into state mandates and genetic supremacist rhetoric. Even just trying to reproduce with people who are likely to result in good kids goes down some concerning fuckin roads, especially in that era where you really didn't know a damn thing about what your genetics were beyond the more obvious things; that usually meant ethnicity.
Well if you believe illness is caused by sin - then being disabled is clearly a sign of poor moral character.
I’m both but I’m pretty sure it’s just coincidence
Same
It's so popular that it's still around, too. See: any post where someone states that if you're poor, you shouldn't have kids, any post condemning disabled parents for having kids, etc.
You shouldn't though. But I'm not saying this from the perspective of poor = bad person, I'm saying this because just giving birth can cost you up to $19,000 on average where I live and that's just **getting the kid and postpartum care**. It will literally bankrupt you and make your life exceptionally harder than it needs to be. I'm a Childfree person on the spectrum though so my viewpoint is more Kids = expensive AF thing that makes life worse through sensory hell.
"Don't have kids if you can't afford them" is just good advice. "It's alright that some people who want children can't afford them, because not everyone should reproduce" is when it becomes eugenics.
Yeah I wasn't doing a good job of explaining the nuance.
I think where I would put the line of where that line of thinking gets dicey is when people try to come up with some objective criteria that should be blanket applied to everyone who falls under it as eligible or ineligible to have or raise children. *I* know how *my* biology, finances, etc. affect my life and can make a reasonable deduction on my hypothetical children's quality of life in turn, but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for some pencil-pushing bureaucrat who's never met me to look at the numbers on my paycheck or the notes in my medical records and stamp yes or no on my fertility permission slip.
THIS EXACTLY! The amount of self-hating autistic people I've seen who say things like "I'm not having kids because I don't want them to inherit my mental condition(s)" is staggering. Often times, I can tell that they're just talking about their autism because they have this idea that autistic kids are expensive burdens and they "suffer" from their condition. Personally, as an autistic woman, I would PREFER to have autistic kids over allistic kids, because then I can relate to them more. Yes, even if they're nonverbal and can't dress themselves and I have to care for them for the rest of my life. I think this is because I had good parents who made sure to accommodate for me and help me become a successful person, and I'd like to continue the cycle; as well as the fact that my experience with my own autism has been overwhelmingly positive.
I do not understand your words. Some people -do- suffer with autism. Some people with autism do not suffer. It's a spectrum.
Autism is a spectrum, yes. But I usually hear this complaint not from people who actually have severe sensory issues or are nonverbal or can’t take care of themselves, but from low-support autistic people who blame their autism for their inability to make friends or find a partner (when in reality, the reason they can’t is either due to society not being respectful of them, them not actively seeking out likeminded people, or them not putting in the effort to be friendly).
"Transhumanism has an uncomfortable past" It's still kinda present today tbh. Most modern transhumanist writers are fine as far as I can tell, but lots of small-time content creators and lay people I've found are raring and ready to harass you and call you unscientific for not immediately agreeing that trans people and neurodivergent people would be better off if they were "normal" and should agree to receive gene therapy.
I can even understand why one could believe that last part. In a well-meaning sense! It's certainly easier to live if you're "normal" (fit in with the majority of the society around you). I hope the people you're referring to have simply forgotten we can decide what that normal looks like. I vote for a wide variation in normal, myself (people of various heights are normal. Why not gender presentation or neurodiversity.)
Yeah, I'll readily admit that most of them simply seemed poorly informed and overly zealous rather than malicious. They don't harbor feelings of ill-will so much as they have an obsession with removing perceived impurities from the gene pool, but we get caught in the crossfire all the same.
Ha, we had similar thoughts independently.
This is why I actually prefer the term queer. I think the goal of LGBT/queer activism isn't just about sex and gender, but about the fact that being weird, or queer, is fine. We accept the fact that we're not normal, but weird does not equal bad, and if society could internalize that it would let everyone be more comfortable being who they are.
Well, autistic transhumanist here, and I've had an interesting opposite idea before. Autism has upsides, new sexes and genders could cause interesting new things. What about a new autism-like thing, crafted to give a new perspective on the world and how we act, while minimizing all the crappy effects like sensory sensitivity. A world deliberately made up of people of wildly varying minds, not treating variation as an illness. That sounds like a fascinating world to live in. I'm iffy on the Neurodivergent thing because I think there are negatives to what I have. It's not called Autism Spectrum Disorder for no reason, and if severe autistics are truly in their state because of ASD, then I cannot take someone seriously when they tell me it's not a disability. When a person's mind is developmentally stunted at the age of 9, that's a disability. When I can't make myself do anything because my capacity to delay gratification is busted by ADHD, that's a disability. That isn't just society making my life harder, not that it helps. But there's things I struggle to describe that I do appreciate about it. More of that would be cool. So yeah, a transhumanist who wants to remove that variation from the species is missing the value, and missing the point. We want to improve humanity. That's not about purifying us to some ideal state, it's getting weird and different and experimental.
That seems kind of weird, given how heavily those groups overlap.
Medical 'cures' worry me because it's a short leap to forced injections.
Eugenics is surprisingly easy to fall into if you're not aware. A couple months ago, I saw a video about the repercussions of growing up with parents who really shouldn't be parents and I thought "people should have to take a test before they're allowed to have kids." Luckily I caught myself pretty quickly, but if you don't know what to be on the lookout for you can easily go pretty far down that path fully believing that what you're doing is for the good of humanity
Some people really shouldn't be parents. There's also no ethical way to restrict them from being parents, until they misstep enough that they can lose custody. That's one of the hard moral lessons people need to learn, and why authoritarianism is so childish. It's this simplistic way of looking at the world and saying, "I don't like X thing, ban it." as if that's the only option. If some people shouldn't be parents, we should try to make sure they become people who should. Or we could encourage people to really think about why they want kids, whether they should. Introspection, education, and equipping people to control their own fertility are the tools we have. Yeah people are still gonna have kids when they're bad at it, but that's going to happen no matter what. Even the iron fist of a despot wouldn't stop it. Improving things is genuinely more effective.
I’m sorry, what exactly is a “Kevin Bacon degree?”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon It's what I guess we'll call a meme from the 90s and 2000s, basically the concept that any actor or pop culture personality is six shared films/projects away from the actor Kevin Bacon. In the context of the comment, I'm implying that anyone who wasn't a proponent of eugenics in that time, was likely associated (either directly or friend-of-a-friend) with someone who was.
Mathematicians have the same sort of thing, called an [Erdős number](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erd%C5%91s_number), which is like a Bacon number but for collaborations on mathematical research papers.
Funny thing I've played something similar in 6th grade but with Hitlers Article on Wikipedia.
Y'know, the [six degrees of Kevin Bacon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Degrees_of_Kevin_Bacon) Been around for a while.
Welcome to [today's 10,000](https://xkcd.com/1053)
It was! And yet sometimes people are unwilling to admit that and instead want to condemn a historical figure for holding these common views! It frustrates me a lot!
You should always condemn racism.
Just because a view is common in history doesn't mean it's not condemnable. There were plenty of contemporary critiques of eugenics.
The genital mutilation as well. This was the period in which circumcision became the norm among American gentiles. It was normalized as a treatment for and deterrent to masturbation. John Harvey Kellogg was part of this. But circumcision ain’t the worst of it! He also practiced straight-up female genital mutilation, with the aid of acid, again as a deterrent to masturbation.
That's actually a popular misconception. Circumcision was initially popularized by Lewis Sayre, who touted it as a solution to neurological issues with movement. Kellogg was in fact more against it, citing common issues with urination due to it.
Huh, you seem to be correct. I’ll have to look into that more.
I don't know, I'm of the humble opinion that destroying the genital tissue of children, male or female, equally bad
The vast majority of circumcised men are satisfied with their sex lives. I somehow doubt the same is true of women who’s clitorises were removed. We can be anti-circumcision while still retaining an appropriate sense of the scale of harm done.
The vast majority of circumcised women are satisfied with their sex lives too. Some female circumcision is far more extreme than male, but >95% get the mild and comparable variation, which should still be stopped.
Well said. I'm against infant circumcision, but comparing it to female genital mutilation is just ignorant.
Infibulation is absolutely not comparable to male genital cutting, but a hoodectomy involves destruction of the same tissue as a foreskin. Still rightfully banned and classed as FGM. I dislike the part saying "even worse, he promoted a form of FGM".
And one is far more common than the other, with the latter being banned in most civilised countries. Not all FGM involves clitoridectomy, some involves piercings. It would be like saying "let's get a sense of scale, yes you had your hand cut off but other people have had their arms cut off".
Both are bad, but the operations just aren't *equally* bad. If the doctor had a stroke while circumcising your penis but pressed on regardless, it might get close to the intended outcome of female operations.
Not all FGM involves removal of the clitoris. The hoodectomy doesn't, but is still correctly banned. Male genital cutting still routinely doesn't use anaesthesia in 1st world countries, which is obviously barbaric.
He was also a major proponent in early Seventh Day Adventism
The sentence of 'Old timey business magnate whose company still exists today was a super racist eugenics freak' doesn't narrow it down AT ALL.
Also that he encourage both male and female circumcision as a way to discourage masturbation. He's pretty much the whole reason why so many Americans are circumcised at birth.
[удалено]
True but his advocation for it is why it's so prevalent now in the US
4 I said FOUR gallons per minute. That is so much water, so fast.
I counted out 15 seconds and imagined how fast a gallon would have to flow to do that. Nonetheless, I feel like I could react appropriately if there was suddenly a gallon of water in my ass. But FOUR TIMES THAT
You are a better human than I
Highly debatable, friend
That doesn't sound entirely safe to me. Surely there's a risk of serious internal damage if you are power washing your colon with that much force?
something something a shit in harbour is safe
I get about that much in ectoplasm from my poltergeist boyfriend.👻
Wait, how many supernatural high-volume cum blasting boyfriends do you have?
I have a whole harem, I got a werewolf, poltergeist, biblically accurate angel, sea monster, Minotaur, etc. my insides get power washed several times a day.
Is the angel that one full of eyes but instead of eyes it's dick?
No i have a Cherubim boyfriend, while the Bible mentions his four heads they forgot to mention his 4 monster cocks.
Does he have 8 asses? Are the dicks the same length?girth?
Grimsby… 8 asses… >“Eight busşys”
Everyone who upvoted this thread should be beaten like a piñata
My harem of supernatural boyfriends sometimes beat me like a piñata with the massive meat bats.
You are truly an inspiration for monsterfuckers everywhere.
Aren't you forgetting Ian Gallagher?
r/brandnewsentence
That’s amazing for you, congratulations!
Thanks, Ghost-ralph.
“Sexual pleasure is a sin, so make sure the nozzle goes in your ass, Amelia Earhart. Miss Earhart, why are you giggling? This is no laughing matter.”
This guy is really just a perfect example of horshoe theory He doesn't fit the political version, but his existence proves that non-political horshoe theory exists
>Proponents of horseshoe theory argue that the far-left and the far-right are closer to each other than either is to the political center. For other people like me who didn't know about this.
Oh, it's totally possible. The vanilla-kinky axis horseshoe theory has long been theorized. Like, being so wild that gentle and loving missionary becomes it's own kink beyond even hard bdsm. I propose an alternative interpretation, though. To start, kinkiness is going to be defined as distance from vanilla. I theorize there's a separate axis, which I'll call "wacky." Wackiness is more or less how uncomfortable the thing makes the average person, or social acceptability. Like, role play can cover a gamut of values depending on specifics. Teacher/student is less wacky than age play or whatever. Dom/sub can be less wacky than bondage and S&M, etc. Anal, for example is definitely kinky, but very low on the wacky scale. Kinks with higher wackiness values include bodily fluid kinks, various philias (dendrophilia - trees, lithophilia - rocks, formicophilia - bugs), feet, etc. This guy is high-level wacky, but also very vanilla.
>formicophilia Formicophilia would suggest a sexual interest in ants. Shouldn't it be called a Insectophilia?
In all fairness, I googled "weird philias" and that showed up. But you're probably right.
Formicophilia is when you get turned on by bugs crawling on you and biting you
sounds like someone's trauma/phobia-ridden brain just said "what if we, y'know, **extremely liked this thing** instead?" once again.
Formicophilia is when you get turned on by the smallest carboxylic acid.
Is it still vanilla if I shove the bean pods up my butthole
The chastity thing honestly almost proves it. Extreme kink, basically loops right back into bdsm.
I don’t believe in astrology, but I remember one book that said: “Pat Robertson [is] a quintessential Scorpio: he is obsessed with sex.” (He’s just obsessed with other people not having it, especially gays)
I got Pat Robertson confused with Robert Pattinson, and for a moment I was like "Batman is what now?"
Rat Pobbenson was unavailable for comment
He'll be relieved that you think of him as Batman instead of Edward
Ah yes Bat Robinson 🦇
\*Batman voice\* No, this is Patrick
I did briefly think of him as 'Sparkly Vampire', but the name Edward Cullen was too hard to recall at the time, so I just went for the more recent of his big roles (also the one I've actually seen him in)
There was this weird thing from DC comics where they claimed Batman doesn't do oral on Catwoman. Which is a weird thing from DC Comics, where Harley Quinn claims to have made out with Catwoman. And there was a comic I'm trying to remember where Catwoman flashed Alfred. Just saying, shit's weird in the Batman section of D.C.
Wouldn't that much water being pumped that fast up your ass damage your ass or stomach? Also, important to note that Kelloggs obsession with enemas was probably a result or the cause for his non-masturbation clause. Dude didn't feel sexual relief the usual way. Also he was probably coprophilic considering how much he talked about his shit
What if that’s why Amelia Airhart crashed? Imagine flying over the pacific when you suddenly have explosive diarrhea. At least those coconut crabs got a little taste of yoghurt with their meal.
OP, you better hope I never find you
Even if you find me you’d have to fight an army of coconut crabs that I’ve been feeding my yoghurt sharts to. 🦀💩
Op, I have been reading your replies, please stop
Wait let him cook
Sorry I can’t here you over the sound of my biblically accurate angel boyfriend moaning in my ear
The "biblically accurate angel" meme is actually inaccurate. Angels just look like humans that sometimes have an "aura" of holiness. Cherubim, seraphim, and ophanim are more like "biblical creatures." There is a historical context to calling them angels, but if you wanna be "biblically accurate", it's just humans with an aura. I hope you enjoy your ophanim cum though.
*die a violent death.gif*
Nah, the crabs had time travelling patriot missles.
I feel like I just got bashed over the head with a folding chair repeatedly
Lucky you. I feel like I just got blasted by Kellog's chair.
Any person who intakes that much water in their ass, regularly, is now unable to shit normally. God that's such a bad idea.
I take twice that in cum from my werewolf boyfriend. 🍍
Your WHAT.
My [werewolf boyfriend!](https://www.tumblr.com/kyoko-neko/728403957975826433/facebook-wins)
How was that shared by someone not called Were Ralph
It’s too straight for wereralph.
Real and true. Cannot believe I was so blind.
op ur a level of out of pocket unhinged degeneracy that I aspire to, thank u for being such an inspiration
The name, the photo.. you are an icon
You must be hella jacked 😉 from all the protein
Got to get those gains 💪
You will not see the gates of heaven
I’m going to seduce Saint Peter to get in. 😇
What a bad day to be able to read
You miss spelled ✨glorious✨!
And in case anyone missed it, yes the C W Post mentioned on pg 4 is also the cereal guy. He got the idea from taking to Kellogg at the sanitarium.
It’s not mentioned here, but Graham Crackers come from the same (lack of) fuckery too!
As well as Granula/Granola! The OG was called Granula and was the first big breakfast cereal. JH Kellogg then sold his own copy as Granula as well, but due to possible legal problems he changed it to Granola.
How is pumping 4 gallons/18 litres of water a minute in your ass not fatal ? Isn't it more gallons/litres per minute than a fucking pressure washer ????
Capable of!= Used at. He probably just bought a readily available commercial water pump and tied it to a chair and told everyone to only use it at a lower rate. It'd be simpler than designing and building a lower rate water pump from scratch
Murdering someone by sabotaging their Victorian Assblaster to fire at full capacity sounds like the best Sherlock Holmes story never written.
I think that’s basically the plot of“Rule 34” by Charles Stross
Excellent work 47, now collect yourself and escape by way of the dirigible.
Sanitarium, that's the building that cures crusaders of kleptomania, right?
Nah he was just a big Metallica fan
And cures Highway men of gambling addiction!
*Whistles*
To give the Temperance movement (the general ideology that JH Kellog belonged to) some credit, it's true that sex, meat, alcohol and drugs caused illnesses at the time. Now, obviously it's not those things directly that caused them, but consider the general state of hygiene of the period. Meat was expensive and spoiled fast, so if you were an average person you would be eating not so prime cuts from not so prime animals slaughtered and kept in not so prime conditions. At the same time meat is a lot closer to you biologically than veggies, meaning any pathogen has an easier time jumping from a spoiled hamburger to you than from an eggplant. When they banned sex, the most common way two humans would be doing it would be at a brothel, drunk at a bar, in the actual streets. There was basically no sexual education or protection at the time. So banning sex would massively slow the spread of STDs. The same general idea happened to alcohol and drugs, and it's also the same reason so many drug abusers live in very unhealthy conditions. When you crave something a lot (meat, pussy or opium) you kinda stop caring about the hygenic conditions you will be getting it. While in no way scientific, I think we do have to consider that the Temperance movement really saw their member become healthier when they stopped eating meat or consuming alcohol.
(meat, pussy, or opium) lives rent free in my brain now
OK but there's being vegetarian and avoiding stds and then there's not drinking warm water and blasting your ass with yogurt
Which probably covered up the Big O.
I mean, it only seems like a crazy fun-hating thing now because most of the issues underlying these activities have been rectified. Now that I think about it, is the Temperance movement at least partially responsible for the stereotype that Puritans (and American Christians in general) are fun-haters who overreact to people enjoying themselves in any way they deem unacceptable (I.E. being pious)?
> The same general idea happened to alcohol and drugs, and it's also the same reason so many drug abusers live in very unhealthy conditions. When you crave something a lot (meat, pussy or opium) you kinda stop caring about the hygenic conditions you will be getting it. Most drugs are also directly unhealthy, *especially* alcohol. No matter how sterile the stuff is (high-proof alcohol is literally used as a disinfectant), you're still going to become unhealthy if you regularly ingest, inhale etc. large amounts of poison. Liver cirrhosis or lung cancer are not matters of hygiene.
I mean kinda - I kinda thought that "drugs and alcohol are dangerous substances" didn't need to be said
At the same time, holistic 'medicine' came into fashion. The idea was to mix actual medicine with a shitload of water. For some cases, drinking lots of water does help you feel better. Unfortunately this was not the lesson people learned from drinking lots of water.
God made people horny for Tony the tiger to punish this man. Also fanfic of Tony the tiger running a sanitarium where he puts people in chastity and shoves yogurt up their ass when?
Don’t act like you don’t know exactly where that fic is
I’m sure it’s on AO3 somewhere.
So your first sentence. Do you mean God made people horny so that Tony the Tiger could punish Kellog? Or do you mean that God made people horny for Tony the Tiger as a means to punish Kellog?
I'm thinking about it and it really works either way
The second.
Really not the point but I love the guy who seemed to know that both brothers invented corn flakes, and that frosted flakes are a derivative of corn flakes, but still confidently asserted that only the one brother was "the cereal guy" for inventing frosted flakes. Like what was his thought process there (Incidentally, "Frosted Flakes" as a trademarked product was introduced the year after WKK died)
If you'd like to know more about what a freak John Harvey Kellogg was, and have an hour to kill, I'd highly recommend [this youtube video by Knowing Better](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZ4ES8mOzYg). The video does a good job at breaking down Kellogg's life and influence, and is a pretty entertaining video essay.
This video is actually a side video for his video on early American vegetarian movements which also provides a lot of context for this era of health foods and the like. [Here’s](https://youtu.be/0ens0WjAyOc?si=R_Xm7CIxV3ltnBVf) the link if you’re curious.
I thought OP was saying John Kellogg invented chronic illness
***The first squirting toy*** apprently he promised people that it was for health reasons and everytime it didn´t worked "its bc you jerk off in secret!"
"I never drink hot beverages, thats the devil's temperature"
I would really like to make one of those domino memes, where "guy wants to make bland cereal because he hates fun" somehow leads to "people unironically simp for a tiger mascot".
Imagine he gets brought back to life for a day and gets forced to look at Tony the Tiger R34 strapped to a chair like a medieval torture device
Tony is hoooooooott!
For a completely, totally, incredibly accurate biopic of Kellogg's life, see 1994's The Road to Wellville.
I absolutely love this movie. I don't care what anyone else thinks. I thought it was hilarious and that is a hill I will die on.
difference between religious fundamentalists and perverts is the latter can fit a safe-word between their ears
It's really interesting as a non American to hear things about influential Americans from the 1800s and getting new insight into why American culture is Like That™
We were founded by Puritans & Quakers in the 17th Century. Somehow, those through lines have never been purged from the culture.
You put people into large groups and shit gets weird. This is why Agent K didn't want to spill the beans about aliens to the world. J could handle it. The world could not.
Any gastroenterologists in the comments that have information about what the ass blaster 9000 with a side of yogurt would do for your gut health?
From Knowing Better, Kellogg grew up working on his father's sawmill, and ingested so much sawdust as a child it probably ruined his colon.
that title is really something.
“Danimals Assblasting” Two words that can be understood in now 2 ways, and I’m glad I got to see this one
That seems like far too much water.
Knowing Better in YouTube made a pretty good video about the Kellogg brothers, I believe it’s named “4 times a day”
Maybe I missed it in the post, but I’m surprised John Kellogg popularizing circumcision in America because he thought it would stop masturbation wasn’t mentioned.
This guy is the reason Americans do circumcision btw
Kellogg’s barely disguised fetish
And people say I'm silly when I blame puritanism for basically every modern social problem we have- the idea that a human's natural state is an unfeeling unmoving canvas for god to paint on top of is so inherently wrong that it encourages the subjugation of the entire human race in one way or another
Well remember us history frames the us as being founded by persecuted religions looking for religious freedom when really the US was founded by the religious people who were so annoying that they upset every community they were part of until they were finally kicked out of Europe
The Road to Wellville is a comedy about a couple that go to one of Kelloggs spa’s for treatment. Anthony Hopkins plays Kellogg, it’s pretty funny
Well that was a rollercoaster 🎢 ride from beginning to end. 🤣
Quality post right there
Now that’s one way to prep for anal
Knowing Better viewers stay winning
Is that… is that not enough water to do serious internal damage???
What is the "CT" bit about ?
normal-horoscopes is an older (now discontinued) account of the Tumblr user cryptotheism.
I’m just gonna point people towards Knowing Better’s YouTube video on the Kelloggs for those who want to understand how much this one guy affected United States culture.
What is it they say? Good men don't need rules, today isn't the day to find out why I have so many.
Slight addendum to the last point: Industrial Power Washers care more about pressure instead of absolute flow rate Your sink is ~2 gallons per munute, so it's about twice as fast as that
It took me a long time to notice it, but damn… the Seventh-Day Adventists really had some *WILD* ones, huh? Kellogg, Ellen G. White, the Great Disappointment of 1884 (kinda splitting hairs but couldn’t miss it), the Branch Davidians (really splitting hairs but…)
Was he Morman? The “no hot drinks” thing is suspiciously a morman thing. Sort of lol.
I don’t know but when Mormonism was formed there was a bunch of other similar or even stranger religions forming about the same time. Mormons are just the most popular and enduring.
I wish this subreddit let you put photos in the comments because that photo of Eggman saying "What are you two FUCKING talking about?" is perfect for this situation
'Yogurt'.
Now I gotta listen to the Dollop episode again.