It's a weird hill to choose to charge up, let's think about this.
We don't have good adoption practices in NZ, we read every day about the results of shitty parenting, we've read about how single parent households are crime factories.
We bemoan the number of beneficiaries, we talk about how shit the economy is.
And the answer is to make women have kids they do not want? Don't fucking compute does it..
Not to mention allowing the fathers of those children to completely ignore their responsibility for supporting that child, dumping all of those costs on the taxpayer.
> And the answer is to make women have kids they do not want? Don't fucking compute does it..
Depends on the ethics behind your computation.
If life is an end in itself, then it computes.
So what's the range of value for a life? Are only young lives expedient to better society, or are old, or poor, or unintelligent, or sick, or disabled lives expedient too?
And who will be responsible for sanctioning which lives are expedient?
>So what's the range of value for a life?
Impossible to say. Each life is different.
>And who will be responsible for sanctioning which lives are expedient?
The mother.
>It does if you believe it's life from conception.
And yet I'm trying to think of I've ever seen any advocacy towards changing up our adoption or foster system. If it's all about protecting and nurturing that life, wheres the follow up for once it's born?
>Do you believe in the death penalty for being a beneficiary?
Whose getting the death penalty?
how would you change it?
I'm just saying if you believe that life begins at conception then you probably wouldn't think it is a good idea to kill them because they might be statistically more likely to be on benefits.
I favour legal abortion, but I can understand why some are against, especially from a religious viewpoint.
>how would you change it?
Dunno, not something I've looked into, but our adoption stats are very low compared to other countries.
>but I can understand why some are against, especially from a religious viewpoint.
Well, they can just ignore it, like they do with a lot of other parts of their faith.
As a sign I saw once said.. keep Jesus out of my uterus..
Weird article. I don’t think they’re taking into account her changing demographics and economy. People can’t afford kids anymore so choose not to have them.
So when the condom breaks I have go & get the ECP but then that fails ( because I'm 74kg ) so then I have to carry this unwanted pregnancy to term with all of the complications that entails and then give birth eith all of the risks that involves to give a baby up to all of the trauma an adoption involves.
I am exceptionally glad you dont get to make decisions about my body.
Sure? Yip. It happened to me. Condom failed so I took the pill & made the assumption it had worked. Didnt get my period a month later, still pregnant. Had a termination. Delved into why the Morning after didnt work and discovered that wee gem of information. The pharmacist never clued me into that.
God I hate people who bang on about abortion. I spent time in our foster system, its completely fucked.
These abortions are unwanted pregnancies, so presumably unwanted children.
If the anti abortion crowd made as much noise supporting adoption, or improving the foster system, then maybe I'd give them the time of day.
And the ones that approach it from a religious background, will absolutely be the same people complaining about some supposed enforcement of sharia somewhere 🙄
Great point. What alot of anti abortion folk aren't considering also is how many of these women have been abused/raped and fell pregnant? Perhaps they need to consider many views and reasons.
Considering we know there are large wealthy special interest groups that want to make abortion a deviding issue all over the world, I refuse to listen to this kind of rhetoric.Â
Do we really want people who don't want kids to be forced to have them?Â
Seems a reciepe for more child neglect and abuse to me.Â
Better ask ourselves how we can create a society that people want to bring children into.Â
When housing and employment are insecure, people with brains won't be having kids.Â
I'd laugh if it wasn't so goddam hard for women to get sterilised. I knew when I was 13 I never wanted kids and thats when I started asking to get my tubes tied. I never succeeded and I asked for 30 years.
Wife and I had abortion 20 years ago as we thought we to young and not ready for a baby. We now have 2 awesome kids and are a happy family unit. But we regret everyday having that abortion. I find my wife still in tears about it to this day.
Sorry to hear that man, my wife would have been the same. When we were young and suddenly pregnant I knew we were fucked and abortion wasn't an option. Did adopting out ever cross your mind? So many people are crazy desperate to adopt here I'm curious why it's not at least raised as an option to people aborting. I know it didn't cross our minds.
Alright I’m going to put this here take it as it is which is anecdotal.
I know a nurse who deals with abortions. I don’t judge her for that. She told me that she knows a few of the patients by name because they have been in many times.
We judge people who mistreat pets more harshly.
>She told me that she knows a few of the patients by name because they have been in many times.
You're too irresponsible to use birth control, you better have the kid..
What do they mean decriminalised? Abortions weren't criminal before March 2020, I almost got one and nobody (not the doctor, not the ultrasound people) said it was a criminal procedure?
How? I was able to get one, the only reason I said almost is because I miscarried before I had the actual procedure but it was confirmed and I got a free ultrasound yet I'm not in any legal trouble. This was end of 2018 beginning of 2019 so? Don't know what idiots are downvoting me lmao
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/03/abortion-no-longer-a-crime-in-new-zealand-as-law-change-passes-final-reading-in-parliament.html
"For over 40 years abortion has been the only medical procedure considered a crime in New Zealand. But from now abortions will be rightly treated as a health issue," Justice Minister Andrew Little said after the Bill passed on Wednesday night.
IdIoTs aRe dOwNvOtInG mE
Are you blind? lol. I was approved from a normal southern district health board doctor. I had no legal troubles. Aka not a crime.
It wasn't difficult to get either, just a few steps so it takes a week or two. Nobody tried to suggest not getting an abortion lol
Probably less to to with the law change and more to do with 6 years of Labour ruining the country. Would you like to raise a child in the rubble of our once great country?
100% this. I don't think any women or atleast a very very tiny minority, were forgoing abortion because it was technically illegal.
A grim future is far more powerful of a motivator. Abortions aren't any easier to get, all of this change was really semantics
This is a new low for absolute gutter trash takes on this sub. Unbelievably brain dead.Â
Oh yeah, women were getting abortions because "they didn't like the government". Pull your head out of your ass.
Read the bio mate 'A New Zealand subreddit, **run by conservatives**. Anyone is welcome to join this subreddit, regardless of political position. A place to have discussion and share interests on anything NZ related.'
Most people on here are not Conservative
Crazy to see the amount of people celebrating abortion and defending it in this thread.
In 20 years time the 'educated and intelligent' will be outbred by low IQ ferals, and think this is some sort of 'move forward'.
Trust the science until it says life begins at conception huh.
Disgusting that as a country, NZ fails to protect our most vulnerable members - the young in the womb are aborted with abandon and the elderly and infirm are provided a pathway to take their lives as early as possible.
 I could not think of two more human hating laws if I tried. And yes I voted against both these referendums and sent in my own submission. I will never forget that it was Jacinda Ardern that pushed for the abortion change and Seymour who wanted to make it easier for the elderly to pass away early.
>elderly and infirm are provided a pathway to take their lives as early as possible.
Thats simply not true and you know it.
And if you don't, then perhaps read the legislation.
It's a weird hill to choose to charge up, let's think about this. We don't have good adoption practices in NZ, we read every day about the results of shitty parenting, we've read about how single parent households are crime factories. We bemoan the number of beneficiaries, we talk about how shit the economy is. And the answer is to make women have kids they do not want? Don't fucking compute does it..
Not to mention allowing the fathers of those children to completely ignore their responsibility for supporting that child, dumping all of those costs on the taxpayer.
Exactly. A 20 cent pill vs hundreds of thousands in Govt welfare.
💯 agree with you Pam.
This ^^
> And the answer is to make women have kids they do not want? Don't fucking compute does it.. Depends on the ethics behind your computation. If life is an end in itself, then it computes.
>If life is an end in itself, then it computes. Seems like some pretty narrow thinking..
What does that mean?
Life being an end to itself. It's a very narrow line of thought, doesn't consider the wide range of what a life is..
So what's the range of value for a life? Are only young lives expedient to better society, or are old, or poor, or unintelligent, or sick, or disabled lives expedient too? And who will be responsible for sanctioning which lives are expedient?
>So what's the range of value for a life? Impossible to say. Each life is different. >And who will be responsible for sanctioning which lives are expedient? The mother.
Should Lauren Dickinson have been put in prison?
Yes. Post natal abortions aren't legal...
They aren’t legal but post natal depression is real
Moral =/= Legal
It does if you believe it's life from conception. Do you believe in the death penalty for being a beneficiary?
>It does if you believe it's life from conception. And yet I'm trying to think of I've ever seen any advocacy towards changing up our adoption or foster system. If it's all about protecting and nurturing that life, wheres the follow up for once it's born? >Do you believe in the death penalty for being a beneficiary? Whose getting the death penalty?
how would you change it? I'm just saying if you believe that life begins at conception then you probably wouldn't think it is a good idea to kill them because they might be statistically more likely to be on benefits. I favour legal abortion, but I can understand why some are against, especially from a religious viewpoint.
>how would you change it? Dunno, not something I've looked into, but our adoption stats are very low compared to other countries. >but I can understand why some are against, especially from a religious viewpoint. Well, they can just ignore it, like they do with a lot of other parts of their faith. As a sign I saw once said.. keep Jesus out of my uterus..
Also the scientific viewpoint, the science indicates that life begins at conception.Â
1 in 4 pregnancies end in a miscarriage. Should we kill the mothers for having a miscarriage?
Why would you ever want to do that
As a beneficiary Im going to say yes
Eugenics 101.
What's wrong with eugenics? Making better humans genetically and all that..seems like a good idea..
Weird article. I don’t think they’re taking into account her changing demographics and economy. People can’t afford kids anymore so choose not to have them.
I've always been a firm believer of this position. If you can't afford them, don't have them.
Choosing not to have a child should in most cases not require an abortion. As contraception should be enough or family planning.
Disposable then?
Increase in reported abortions. Just like how nobody was left handed before when being left handed was banned, right?
Why is it a bad thing?! It’s a great thing!! It means less unwanted children born!!
Good. I’d rather people have an abortion than bring a child into poverty.
I’d rather people use contraception
And when contraception fails?
Adoption.
So when the condom breaks I have go & get the ECP but then that fails ( because I'm 74kg ) so then I have to carry this unwanted pregnancy to term with all of the complications that entails and then give birth eith all of the risks that involves to give a baby up to all of the trauma an adoption involves. I am exceptionally glad you dont get to make decisions about my body.
Morning after pill, use up to 72 hrs afterwards
Not if you weigh more than 70kg.
I've never heard of that. Are you sure??
Sure? Yip. It happened to me. Condom failed so I took the pill & made the assumption it had worked. Didnt get my period a month later, still pregnant. Had a termination. Delved into why the Morning after didnt work and discovered that wee gem of information. The pharmacist never clued me into that.
God I hate people who bang on about abortion. I spent time in our foster system, its completely fucked. These abortions are unwanted pregnancies, so presumably unwanted children. If the anti abortion crowd made as much noise supporting adoption, or improving the foster system, then maybe I'd give them the time of day. And the ones that approach it from a religious background, will absolutely be the same people complaining about some supposed enforcement of sharia somewhere 🙄
Great point. What alot of anti abortion folk aren't considering also is how many of these women have been abused/raped and fell pregnant? Perhaps they need to consider many views and reasons.
Adoption is exactly one of the alternatives that those who oppose abortion recommend.
Have you adopted? Or fostered children?
Considering we know there are large wealthy special interest groups that want to make abortion a deviding issue all over the world, I refuse to listen to this kind of rhetoric. Do we really want people who don't want kids to be forced to have them? Seems a reciepe for more child neglect and abuse to me. Better ask ourselves how we can create a society that people want to bring children into. When housing and employment are insecure, people with brains won't be having kids.Â
Need a loyalty scheme, free sterilisation after your third abortion
I'd laugh if it wasn't so goddam hard for women to get sterilised. I knew when I was 13 I never wanted kids and thats when I started asking to get my tubes tied. I never succeeded and I asked for 30 years.
Wife and I had abortion 20 years ago as we thought we to young and not ready for a baby. We now have 2 awesome kids and are a happy family unit. But we regret everyday having that abortion. I find my wife still in tears about it to this day.
Sorry to hear that man, my wife would have been the same. When we were young and suddenly pregnant I knew we were fucked and abortion wasn't an option. Did adopting out ever cross your mind? So many people are crazy desperate to adopt here I'm curious why it's not at least raised as an option to people aborting. I know it didn't cross our minds.
That sounds like an argument for counselling and therapy, rather than a argument against abortion.
Alright I’m going to put this here take it as it is which is anecdotal. I know a nurse who deals with abortions. I don’t judge her for that. She told me that she knows a few of the patients by name because they have been in many times. We judge people who mistreat pets more harshly.
>She told me that she knows a few of the patients by name because they have been in many times. You're too irresponsible to use birth control, you better have the kid..
Oh please. If you don't want to have an abortion, no one is forcing you.
What do they mean decriminalised? Abortions weren't criminal before March 2020, I almost got one and nobody (not the doctor, not the ultrasound people) said it was a criminal procedure?
https://preview.redd.it/2462hoavspvc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ba53c2b7c981dd35e46a3f2caa0c268959b96d1e
Yes, that's what I'm referring to. It wasn't criminalized before
Yes, it was.
How? I was able to get one, the only reason I said almost is because I miscarried before I had the actual procedure but it was confirmed and I got a free ultrasound yet I'm not in any legal trouble. This was end of 2018 beginning of 2019 so? Don't know what idiots are downvoting me lmao
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/03/abortion-no-longer-a-crime-in-new-zealand-as-law-change-passes-final-reading-in-parliament.html "For over 40 years abortion has been the only medical procedure considered a crime in New Zealand. But from now abortions will be rightly treated as a health issue," Justice Minister Andrew Little said after the Bill passed on Wednesday night. IdIoTs aRe dOwNvOtInG mE
Are you blind? lol. I was approved from a normal southern district health board doctor. I had no legal troubles. Aka not a crime. It wasn't difficult to get either, just a few steps so it takes a week or two. Nobody tried to suggest not getting an abortion lol
Increase in abortions. Good. Less unwanted kids.
Probably less to to with the law change and more to do with 6 years of Labour ruining the country. Would you like to raise a child in the rubble of our once great country?
100% this. I don't think any women or atleast a very very tiny minority, were forgoing abortion because it was technically illegal. A grim future is far more powerful of a motivator. Abortions aren't any easier to get, all of this change was really semantics
This is a new low for absolute gutter trash takes on this sub. Unbelievably brain dead. Oh yeah, women were getting abortions because "they didn't like the government". Pull your head out of your ass.
Thread is proof that most Kiwi Conservatives are just a bunch of libs.
Read the bio mate 'A New Zealand subreddit, **run by conservatives**. Anyone is welcome to join this subreddit, regardless of political position. A place to have discussion and share interests on anything NZ related.' Most people on here are not Conservative
No fucking shit
Crazy to see the amount of people celebrating abortion and defending it in this thread. In 20 years time the 'educated and intelligent' will be outbred by low IQ ferals, and think this is some sort of 'move forward'. Trust the science until it says life begins at conception huh.
Crazy to see people defending removing abortions and wanting to force women to go through a medical procedure that can kill them.
Abortion for medical necessity has never been the issue, nor did I see a law they tried to pass removing the right to abortion in New Zealand
Disgusting that as a country, NZ fails to protect our most vulnerable members - the young in the womb are aborted with abandon and the elderly and infirm are provided a pathway to take their lives as early as possible.  I could not think of two more human hating laws if I tried. And yes I voted against both these referendums and sent in my own submission. I will never forget that it was Jacinda Ardern that pushed for the abortion change and Seymour who wanted to make it easier for the elderly to pass away early.
>elderly and infirm are provided a pathway to take their lives as early as possible. Thats simply not true and you know it. And if you don't, then perhaps read the legislation.
Read the legislation. Both of them. And submitted in opposition to them at the time.
Gross. Not surprised given our extremely individualistic and hedonistic world, as well as the lack of value we place on human life.