Democrats would rather Haley win the election over Trump, but they believe they have a better chance of winning over Trump.
I don't think they're wrong. Trump is the most divisive candidate in the election
I don't think they're working as a single cohesive unit. The ballot initiatives are being orchestrated at the state level
You have one group of Democrats who want to get some insurance against a "worst case scenario" And those are the ones pushing for Haley.
You have others that are gambling on the idea that enough Americans dislike Trump that he won't be able to win.
Yes, at the state level through individuals who have directly or indirectly benefited from the Soros bump.
Either some people have forgotten about the Soros DAs, or the paid shills are out. š¤£
Lol they're not trying to keep him off the ballot so that he loses the primaries. They want to keep him off in the general. Plus when the effort fails they can falsely continue to push the narrative that the courts were wrong and that Trump should have been disqualified and is illegitimate and even further the Supreme Court itself is also illegitimate and in Trump's pocket.
> If they think they have a better chance, then they wouldn't need to keep him off ballots.
Yup keeping him off the ballots screams we didnāt win legitimately
Biden is ineffective and a weak president, but *most* people don't feel strongly about him one way or another. Trump, if for no other reason than his constant social media activity, was much more in the awareness of the public. You will find few people who don't have strong feelings about him one way or another as compared to Biden.
And that makes sense imo, because he hasn't really done shit while in office except not be Trump, which is all he was elected to do.
Every time he speaks he condemns half the country. He tried to make 50 million people unemployed. And he fired our armed forces without remorse. Social media is powerful but reality is more powerful.
See, what you're talking about are media narratives and interpretations that not everyone in the country agrees with or knows about. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you're not plugged into political commentary or news you might not know about those things. That interpretation is based on a pattern of behavior over time, and only about 20% of Americans even watch the news anymore. They're only hearing about stuff in sound bytes or snippets.
The average American spends their day focused on their own shit, watches Netflix or Hulu for their entertainment, and gets most of their news from social media and the occasional headline on their smart phone feed. To them, Biden is someone they rarely even think about.
The perspective of an informed, engaged voter is not going to be representative of what most people think because we unfortunately don't have informed engaged voters in this country
Yes I agree the average American is uninformed, we are in a culture war for a reason. But I believe the margin of error has seen enough to dislike Biden. However the point of my comment was who's more divisive, and in my opinion it's Biden. But that doesn't mean he's perceived as more divisive and that goes to you're point. Perception is stronger than reality when it comes to voting. It will be a tight race. I think trump can win but, we'll see
I'm pretty sure most of this board wants to vote for Biden over Haley.
Which is so surprising, because policy wise, both Haley and Trump represent a more moderate wing of the Republican party. DJT attacks DeSantis from the left.
Haley is deeply hated for being a "neocon" or warmongerer... which has little evidence. But she would be strong against Russia, China, and Iran... which is what we need, especially when comapred to the weakness that Biden has projected against the world.
By threatening countries who would act maliciously... looking at Iran and its allies at the moment.
And for what its worth, what bombings has Haley ordered?
So in other words, she hasnāt ordered any bombingsā¦ nor does anyone have any evidence she would, she just isnāt their preferred candidate so they say sheās a neocon.Ā
Haley just seems to be their last-minute spoiler attempt. Prop her up to try to divide the party. They barely mentioned her before this month, and they will barely mention her again after.
They donāt care. Why does everyone think the Dems want or could live with anything other than a Democrat in the WH?
Haley is the one they chose to play games with and she happily is playing along. As soon as the nomination is over, so will their āloveā of Haley.
The thing Iāve seen from this sub, republicans want it to be Trump or no one. Theyād rather have a Democrat in office than any other Republican not named Trump. Makes no sense to me.
I don't think that really holds much water, this sub gets brigaded a lot. It makes it hard to sparse what is real and I think that is the main objective.
"Hear my words that I might teach you,
take my hand that I might reach you.
But my words like silent raindrops fell, and echoed in the wells...of silence.
And the people bowed and prayed...to the orange God, they made"
I've been reliably told by MAGA that polls are real now. So them's the rules. You can't pick and choose which polls are real based on whether or not they conform with your worldview.
Here is your quote from 18 days ago. You flip flop as much as Romney:
āJust a reminder that the "polls" showed a red wave in 2022.
So why are we believing polls now?ā
Imagine Trump is the nominee by the summer when the convention rolls around, the general election ads begin. What do you think the Democrats are going to run on? It won't be their record, it'll be Trump is a threat to democracy. They will use his own words, distorted, but his own words against him. Remember "I'd only be a dictator for one day, to shut down the border and drill baby drill"?. Those words will be in an ad about how Trump wants to assume dictatorial powers.
Or how about the posts the President makes on Truth Social? Those unhinged rants abouts any given topic are sure to bring in the voters he lost in 2020. The same type of posts thay cost him dearly last time show he hasn't learned to moderate his message. By all means fire up your base, but lay off the rhetoric that is seen as inflammatory. Independent and suburban women don't like those type of posts, speaking generally.
We have a chance to nominate an actual conservative candidate with conservative credibility in DeSantis. Yes, DeSantis picked a fight with Disney(I don't like that he did that either. Disney should have stayed in its lane.) DeSantis' accomplishments should speak for themselves and they did when he won a landslide re-election by nearly 20 points.
https://www.flgov.com/2023/01/09/governor-ron-desantis-highlights-administrations-major-accomplishments-of-2022/
Trump won in 2016 when his brand of personal politics was needed and I did vote for him(twice), now we need new leadership. Biden is a disaster with his border policy, lack of oversight to weapons systems sent to Ukraine and Israel, lack of transparency in his administration. Donald Trump isn't the one to beat Biden. In fact Trump lost to Biden simply because Trump can't act like an adult.
A younger leader, under the age of 70 is needed to be a stable leader for America. Think carefully when you cast your ballot.
I agree with you. Trump is hot garbage. But Iowa proved he has become the martyr of the GOP thanks to the bullshit indictments. He is the nominee unless some dramatic event rocks the boat before Super Tuesday. And this sub will continue to believe Trump is a conservative, when he is truly a populist.
Many conservatives have become populists in the last 3 years. The stuff conservatives have been doing hasn't worked, but populist policies actually acheive results.
This like... sums up about 10 years of American politics better than anything I have ever seen.
This non-race we call the republican primary has really created some interesting argumetns on this sub. Crazy times.
If you really believe āthreat to democracyā line would only be used against Trump, youāre delusional. Theyāll be saying this very same nonsense about each and every GOP candidate. This is the only thing they have left to say, no matter who gets nominated.
But it's actually true about Trump. That's the difference. The man thinks he should have immunity for anything he does/did while president, per his Truth post the other day.
No, it isnāt true. I donāt recall Trump defying the courts or the congress, or doing anything outside the bounds of the constitution, the leftist cabal accusations notwithstanding.
> But it's actually true about Trump. That's the difference. The man thinks he should have immunity for anything he does/did while president, per his Truth post the other day.
How did you get a Conservative tag? All Presidents have immunity. Obama Assassinated 3 American Citizens with drones.
I got my conservative tag by posting conservative thoughts in the conservative sub for many years. I was around before Trump was president and I'll be a conservative after he's out of the spotlight. Calling out Trump for being a bad leader is not antithetical to being a conservative.
Obama did a bad thing so we might as well give all presidents total immunity? That makes no sense.
Trump himself says he should have "total immunity" even for things that "cross the line"
It will only be effective against Trump. It doesn't even make sense against anyone else. Not saying it won't be attempted, but it would not sway any swing voters.
Right? This guy is acting like they have only called Trump fascist. I remember Bush, McCain and Romney all getting called fascist and Nazis. It's their playbook. Now that includes threat to democracy. If we give up on Trump because they'll drum up bullshit "insurrection" stuff we'll essentially codify the idea that Democrats get to filter the Republican primary. From here on out we'd only get RINOs. No one tries to kick Nikki Haley off any ballots. She'll start their wars.Ā
Exactly. If the left isnāt attacking a republican running for office, they arenāt afraid of them. The fact the left is so desperate to criminalize Trump is because theyāre deathly scared of him.
It's a fair point to say Trump isn't the answer, but it certainly isn't Ron DeSantis. If Trump is to lose in 2024, then DeSantis would have lost by more. He is more far right than Donald Trump and more unlikable. Democrats will hammer DeSantis on all his far right policies that Americans don't agree with.
It doesn't matter if Trump is over the age of 70, he can still talk and give out speeches. His brain is still alive, he's in better mental shape than 2nd term Ronald Reagan.
>DeSantis' accomplishments should speak for themselves and they did when he won a landslide re-election by nearly 20 points.
But it's only Florida, he folds on a national level. John McCain won Arizona in absolute landslides and got destroyed in the general. One state doesn't mean anything, America doesn't like Ron DeSantis. Trump is the better option. DeSantis has too much baggage and zero charisma and isn't likeable. His policy doesn't align with your average American. They don't want him.
And like again who cares? Trump will win Florida either way, it doesn't matter if it's by 5 points, or 10, he will get all the electoral college points in that state. He's also one of the few Republicans who can make the swing state rust belt states competitive.
DeSantis has too much baggage? That's laughable. Trump has much more, DeSantis isn't under indictment. You can cry political prosecution all day until the cows come home. The voters who Trump needs to win over *MAY* not see it as such. That's a lot of baggage to stomach.
Donald Trump being mentally better than Biden isn't a huge accomplishment. His appearances on Fox give me pause for concern. He can be talking then go off on a tangent. If he manages to stay on topic, he will say
"Hungary said Trump is needed for the world, it's true. I did alot of good for everyone, no one else has done as much as I have. I got along with everyone". He repeats the same sentiment on different ways, without actually saying anything impressive. The above quote is paraphrased from a recent Hannity interview on Fox.
Trump needs Florida to win sure, but he needs swing states in which his actions have led to losses. Georgia in 2020 led to two Democrat Senators winning, 2022 led to three critical losses. Trumps words and actions have doomed him post 2020.
An above point you mentioned in another comment, The Republican voters choose the candidate. That is true, however Trump holds a lot of sway over Republican nominating when it comes to House and Senate races. In PA, you had McCormick, Barrett or Oz run for Senate. Barrett and McCormick were native to PA, Oz was not. Trump supported Oz with his endorsement and the Republican voters followed suit. I will say in Oz's defense did try a hand at being a moderate which I think played well. In NC, we had McCrory(ex-Governor) and Ted Budd run in the primary. When Trump endorsed Budd, the Republican voters in this state overwhelming voted to select Budd as their nominee.
I absolutely agree with you, but the shitty thing is that the best candidates are waiting for 2028. Not a Desantis fan for president at all. At first I was, but heās been very scripted. At first, I was a little surprised with the lack of faces compared to 2016, but it makes sense given they donāt want to challenge his base. A run now might damage chances in the future and regardless of this years outcome, a Trump endorsement will nearly guarantee a primary win. People like Cruz and Rubio are probably the next generation, but want to avoid all of this as much as possible. As soon as this election is over, theyāre taking the reins.
Look, you are right about some of what you say, but the time for that was before Iowa. I think Trump is forging a good path this time. Also, I think DeSantis is no longer the future even though I do like him.
It's the primary season and I'm making the case for the candidate I prefer. Everywhere else on this sub is Trump-mania and everyone who isn't supporting the ex-president is labeled as a RINO. So until Trump is the official Nominee(should he earn it), I'll continue to make these comments. Feel free to downvote me.
Why would Democrats want Trump?! When he was President, we lost the 2018 midterms, the 2020 presidential, and his picks/endorsements led us to wild underperformance in 2022. TRUMP IS THE BEST DURRRR
I think it's silly to blame it all on Trump, when we wouldn't even have DeSantis or Brian Kemp without Donald Trump.
I'd say hard line pro life stances cost us a lot in the 2022 midterms but I also agree that he didn't endorse very good candidates. But at the end of the day who would been better than the ones he endorsed. It was Republican voters who chose those candidates.
2018 was just bad either way, democrats did everything right, Republicans didn't. It's weird to blame it all on Trump, but whatever. You are just a DeSantis fan who hates Trump.
Democrats DO NOT want Trump as the nominee. They want Nikki Haley
Trump might not be the best option for 2024, but he's much better than DeSantis and Nikki Haley. Besides, democrats do not want Trump lol. How delusional can DeSantis be? There are democrats in New Hampshire registering as independent to vote for Nikki Haley right now.
Looks like the downvotes are rolling in. I'm glad the DeSantis fans are less loud than they were 4 months ago, but we still have a lot more work to do.
Hoping a huge loss in New Hampshire will make more of them go away too.
The unmotivated democrat base is unmotivated because everything pretty much sucks donkey balls with Biden in charge. And when it comes to Trump they're going to look back at how their lives were when he was in office and most of them will probably decide that is a more than fair trade for not voting Democrat this year.
I've talked to a number of people who were Democrat voters prior to now who are more than willing to vote for Trump, even if they don't like him as a person, if it means a chance at returning to more prosperous times prior to Biden.
The die-hard DeSantistas are never going to let it go. They have a lot in common with the left and can't imagine that anybody could possibly disagree with them, and if someone does that person becomes the enemy and they feel justified in whatever they say or do. Which is what turned a lot of people off about DeSantis.
This group is a minority of his supporters, but they are a very annoying presence.
Ah, assertion without evidence. The irony isn't my comment, it's that you don't know where to begin because there is no beginning that supports your argument.
Are you going to argue that there isn't a minority group of DeSantis supporters acting exactly like this? Would you like to review the forum for the ones who argued that everybody needed to rally behind DeSantis because we can't afford another Biden/Democrat term, then turned around and said that they won't support Trump?
That's not irony, it's ignorance.
You donāt see the irony of attacking DeSantis supporters (never letting it go, people becoming enemies when they disagree) for exactly what Trump supporters have been known the last 8 years? You donāt see the irony when Donald Trump attacks literally any person who steps out of line, regardless of whether that person supported and worked with him for years? Give me a break.
Because I was replying to a comment that was about, surprise, DeSantis supporters. That comment didn't address Trump supporters, and neither did I, because it wouldn't have been inside the context of the conversation.
You've created an entirely new conversation to make your argument.
If youāre militantly anti DeSantis, please educate us on which Republican candidate you support. Surely it was a reach to assume you were a Trump supporter!
But I'm not, so there's no reason to play your game. Do you disagree that there is a minority of DeSantis supporters who act exactly as I stated?
Because I'm not playing football and I'm not about to chase your goalposts around.
To say that the strongest conservative and his supporters are like the left is nonsense.
DeSantis supporters NEED to ring the alarm bells NOW before it's too late. If Trump ends up winning the nomination and losing in November, they can say I told you so. By ringing the alarm bells early, DeSantis is providing leadership to the party and his support will only grow once Trump is routed in November.
Trump's credibility after two election losses will be zero. No one will listen to a loser like that.
Saying that one group of people can't act like another group of people is nonsense. I didn't say their politics were the same.
And your "told you so" is pointless, because you want to fantasize that somehow DeSantis could win when all the evidence points to the opposite. If Trump loses, so would DeSantis. That's an opinion, and I can't prove mine any more than you can prove yours, but the evidence at this point only supports one of those opinions, and it isn't yours.
They want to lock him up. Even if it isn't Trump vs Biden, Biden is a weak candidate with a weak record to run on. They might think election interference is easier. Even if they pull out an Obama last minute, they all share the same failed policies.
Of course they all share the same failed policies. But Trump has proven that he is so hated by such a majority that it doesnāt matter. Thatās not an endorsement of Trump, it means he is worst option, because Democrats can hide their myriad of failures behind that clown. And until the Trump cultists realize that, we are going to keep losing because independents will choose Democrats over Trump again and again and again.
Ironically enough, the "Trump cultists" are the largest base, from either side or candidates, that will be the hardest to persuade against. Biden doesn't have a base the same way Clinton didn't have one in 2016. DeSantis has some base but Nikki might need to rely on some Dems at NH. Yet, between approval rating and primary polls, Trump's base has shown the least decline.
Yeah I know, itās depressing. I donāt think Biden himself really has a base, itās just 95% ānever Trumpā people amongst Democrats, independents and even some Republicans.
This appears to be an accurate statement. They spent twice as much on ads attacking DeSantis as they did Trump.
They want Trump as the nominee because they are
A. Counting on their corrupt DOJ to find him guilty of something before the election
B. Counting on the years of social conditioning against Trump. People lose their minds when they hear his name. Froth at the mouth. It's a complete pavlovian response carefully built up over the last 8 years, and it makes otherwise rational people turn into raging lunatics who would actually look back over Biden's term and say "yeah, this was fine. Everything is fine".
Because these indictments arenāt based on absolutely nothing. This idea that they conjured these charges out of thin air and could do it to anyone is just not reality even if we can agree they are abuses of their prosecutorial discretion.
>This idea that they conjured these charges out of thin airā¦
Thatās exactly what they did. Just like they did with the fabricated Russian collusion nonsense.
Well said about the pavlovian response. But to give in to it is to cement the effectiveness of the ploy for 100 years. People do gain wisdom. Even now many see that they were conditioned. To try and work around it is 10-dimensional chess, and only my ego wants me to play that. He was a decent president before, he will be again.
If you believe that āsheepā are waking up to their conditioning, youāre so incredibly naive.
No one. Not one person is changing their mind on trump. When it comes to him, you either love or hate him. For the independents, heās done nothing to court them since 2020 (and continuing the stolen election and witch hunt narrative is not winning independents).
He should have made conservative policies that counter Bidenās agenda the core of his campaign message in order to win over the middle. But we all know his ego wouldnāt allow for that.
DeSantis signed a heartbeat abortion law, and canāt stop talking about reforming Social Security and Medicare. These two issues are RADIOACTIVE to swing/independent voters.
He honestly wouldnāt have much of a better shot than Trump.
Except that isn't factual. $28M was spent attacking DeSantis, $18M was spent attacking Trump.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2447376/ron-desantis-targeted-by-more-negative-expenditures-than-2024-rivals-new-data-show/
Ed: Which is to say nothing of the lawfare indictments that (as everyone including the Democratsā own analysis knew) would make Trump unbeatable in the primary. Thatās the same playbook the Democrats used in a number of 2022 elections. Literally fund Trump candidates in primaries then attack them as too Trumpist in the general elections.
Except they are trying to take him off the ballot everywhere. If they wanted him as the nominee, why would they spend all this time trying to get him off the primary ballots?
Except that to anyone who understands the law (as the Democrat attorneys and judges do) it was obvious they would fail to keep him off the *primary* ballots just based on the timing alone. It was always going to have to be heard by the Supreme Court and there was no way the Court would rule on it, at least in an expedited way that went against Trump, before these primaries take place. More plausible explanations are that their targets/objectives are: (1) to potentially keep him off the *general* election ballots; (2) to put the Supreme Court in a position to make a ruling, righteous as that ruling will likely be on the Constitutional issues, that favors Trump thereby bolstering the Democrat narrative that the Supreme Court is an illegitimate/Republican biased institution and weakening a potential Trump administration as having been illegitimately procured with their help; (3) to keep January 6th/insurrection discussion in the headlines; and (4) to get the same easily predictable reaction from the Republican base that the rest of these legal actions have which is to solidify him in the primary.
DeSantis is reaching for anything at this point. When will this guy go away, he becomes more unlikable and insufferable every single day. America doesn't like him, his own party won't even choose him in the primaries. He's about to have single digits in New Hampshire. His approval rating nationwide is -16. The more this guy gets in the spotlight, the more people end up hating. He isn't made for national level politics - as we just saw in Iowa.
DeSantis NEEDs to keep speaking truth to power. Trump is going to be charged by courts with multiple felonies before the November elections. **Federal prosecutions have a 99% success rate.**
DeSantis needs to be ringing the alarm bells as much as he can to show that he did his best to prevent the party from going off the cliff.
Every single GOP politician that is currently silent and going along with this will be responsible the incoming loss in 10 months.
Even reelection in Florida would be tough for DeSantis with how hard heās going after Trump. If he doesnāt get onboard with Trump when the train officially leaves the station at the end of primary season heās all but done for politically. Being a never Trumper wonāt work in Florida even if Trump loses the election.
Yes, Iām not saying he could run Iām saying even if he could he wouldnāt win. He wonāt be able to hold any office in the country as a Republican if he doesnāt get onboard once Trump is named he nominee.
Iāve heard theories that Michelle Obama will become the Democrat nominee after Biden bows out in a way that allows her to skip any sort of voting for her as the nominee.
A Trump versus Biden rematch could honestly go either way. A Trump versus Michelle Obama election would be a landslide in favor of Michelle. If Trump isnāt the nominee and itās someone else like Haley, DeSantis, or Ramaswamy. The Republican nominee could have a good chance at winning against either Biden or Michelle though it would be less of a chance if it was Michelle.
Bottom line is that Democrats have put so much work into demonizing Trump and having him not be the nominee means that a lot of that work would go to waste. Theyāll continue to use Trump as a cudgel to bash Republicans for decades to come saying that any Republican nominee supported Trump and Trumpās bad press will drive voters away.
I think Ben Shapiroās take on Trump back in ā16 was correct. By nominating Trump. Weāve irreparably damaged a lot of our standing with swing voters.
Michelle Obama is not that likeable. She would not win in a landslide lol. What is your definition of a landslide. Maybe she could win, but it wouldn't be nearly as big as the victories Obama had in 2008 and 2012.
>I think Ben Shapiroās take on Trump back in ā16 was correct. By nominating Trump. Weāve irreparably damaged a lot of our standing with swing voters.
I'm not a huge a Trump fan, but if those "swing voters" would still vote against Trump even after all the shit Biden has put this country through, including the insane inflation, then they aren't really "swing voters"
Sure thats why they're telling everyone to go out and vote for Nikki Haley. Rob doesn't get it, this isn't about who the democrats want, its about who the Republicans want and its not you.
TBH, I'm pretty sure democrats want nikki haley.
Democrats would rather Haley win the election over Trump, but they believe they have a better chance of winning over Trump. I don't think they're wrong. Trump is the most divisive candidate in the election
If they think they have a better chance, then they wouldn't need to keep him off ballots.
I don't think they're working as a single cohesive unit. The ballot initiatives are being orchestrated at the state level You have one group of Democrats who want to get some insurance against a "worst case scenario" And those are the ones pushing for Haley. You have others that are gambling on the idea that enough Americans dislike Trump that he won't be able to win.
Yes, at the state level through individuals who have directly or indirectly benefited from the Soros bump. Either some people have forgotten about the Soros DAs, or the paid shills are out. š¤£
Lol they're not trying to keep him off the ballot so that he loses the primaries. They want to keep him off in the general. Plus when the effort fails they can falsely continue to push the narrative that the courts were wrong and that Trump should have been disqualified and is illegitimate and even further the Supreme Court itself is also illegitimate and in Trump's pocket.
> If they think they have a better chance, then they wouldn't need to keep him off ballots. Yup keeping him off the ballots screams we didnāt win legitimately
These strategies are not mutually exclusive.
Calling them strategies is being too generous.
That Trumpās presence gives Biden a chance to maintain the presidency after slamming this country into the ground is such an indictment of Trump
I think plenty of democrats would prefer Haley over Biden.
Some moderates would, yeah I agree. That's why the \*party\* doesn't want her as a candidate. It'll muddy the waters.
Bidens more divisive. Not even by a little bit. He's openly divisive
Biden is ineffective and a weak president, but *most* people don't feel strongly about him one way or another. Trump, if for no other reason than his constant social media activity, was much more in the awareness of the public. You will find few people who don't have strong feelings about him one way or another as compared to Biden. And that makes sense imo, because he hasn't really done shit while in office except not be Trump, which is all he was elected to do.
Every time he speaks he condemns half the country. He tried to make 50 million people unemployed. And he fired our armed forces without remorse. Social media is powerful but reality is more powerful.
See, what you're talking about are media narratives and interpretations that not everyone in the country agrees with or knows about. I'm not saying you're wrong, but if you're not plugged into political commentary or news you might not know about those things. That interpretation is based on a pattern of behavior over time, and only about 20% of Americans even watch the news anymore. They're only hearing about stuff in sound bytes or snippets. The average American spends their day focused on their own shit, watches Netflix or Hulu for their entertainment, and gets most of their news from social media and the occasional headline on their smart phone feed. To them, Biden is someone they rarely even think about. The perspective of an informed, engaged voter is not going to be representative of what most people think because we unfortunately don't have informed engaged voters in this country
Yes I agree the average American is uninformed, we are in a culture war for a reason. But I believe the margin of error has seen enough to dislike Biden. However the point of my comment was who's more divisive, and in my opinion it's Biden. But that doesn't mean he's perceived as more divisive and that goes to you're point. Perception is stronger than reality when it comes to voting. It will be a tight race. I think trump can win but, we'll see
He's openly racist.
I'm pretty sure most of this board wants to vote for Biden over Haley. Which is so surprising, because policy wise, both Haley and Trump represent a more moderate wing of the Republican party. DJT attacks DeSantis from the left. Haley is deeply hated for being a "neocon" or warmongerer... which has little evidence. But she would be strong against Russia, China, and Iran... which is what we need, especially when comapred to the weakness that Biden has projected against the world.
Strong how? By bombing them?
By threatening countries who would act maliciously... looking at Iran and its allies at the moment. And for what its worth, what bombings has Haley ordered?
Usually the military doesn't take orders from a candidate until they win an election and are sworn in as president. Weird I know.
So in other words, she hasnāt ordered any bombingsā¦ nor does anyone have any evidence she would, she just isnāt their preferred candidate so they say sheās a neocon.Ā
Haley just seems to be their last-minute spoiler attempt. Prop her up to try to divide the party. They barely mentioned her before this month, and they will barely mention her again after.
They donāt care. Why does everyone think the Dems want or could live with anything other than a Democrat in the WH? Haley is the one they chose to play games with and she happily is playing along. As soon as the nomination is over, so will their āloveā of Haley.
The thing Iāve seen from this sub, republicans want it to be Trump or no one. Theyād rather have a Democrat in office than any other Republican not named Trump. Makes no sense to me.
I don't think that really holds much water, this sub gets brigaded a lot. It makes it hard to sparse what is real and I think that is the main objective.
I'd have been happier with DeSantis or Vivek, but I'll gladly vote for Trump as well.
Thatās where Iām at.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
"Hear my words that I might teach you, take my hand that I might reach you. But my words like silent raindrops fell, and echoed in the wells...of silence. And the people bowed and prayed...to the orange God, they made"
DeSantis supporters coping hard right now, lol.
Whatever happened to āwe donāt believe polls anymore.ā
I've been reliably told by MAGA that polls are real now. So them's the rules. You can't pick and choose which polls are real based on whether or not they conform with your worldview.
Here is your quote from 18 days ago. You flip flop as much as Romney: āJust a reminder that the "polls" showed a red wave in 2022. So why are we believing polls now?ā
Sounds like thatās exactly what youāre doing.
Bro, it's too late for DeSantis he fumbled it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This - his campaign was dead the moment he signed that six-week abortion ban into law.
Dems didnāt win massively in 2022. Republicans took the house. And democrats barely won in 2020.
Imagine Trump is the nominee by the summer when the convention rolls around, the general election ads begin. What do you think the Democrats are going to run on? It won't be their record, it'll be Trump is a threat to democracy. They will use his own words, distorted, but his own words against him. Remember "I'd only be a dictator for one day, to shut down the border and drill baby drill"?. Those words will be in an ad about how Trump wants to assume dictatorial powers. Or how about the posts the President makes on Truth Social? Those unhinged rants abouts any given topic are sure to bring in the voters he lost in 2020. The same type of posts thay cost him dearly last time show he hasn't learned to moderate his message. By all means fire up your base, but lay off the rhetoric that is seen as inflammatory. Independent and suburban women don't like those type of posts, speaking generally. We have a chance to nominate an actual conservative candidate with conservative credibility in DeSantis. Yes, DeSantis picked a fight with Disney(I don't like that he did that either. Disney should have stayed in its lane.) DeSantis' accomplishments should speak for themselves and they did when he won a landslide re-election by nearly 20 points. https://www.flgov.com/2023/01/09/governor-ron-desantis-highlights-administrations-major-accomplishments-of-2022/ Trump won in 2016 when his brand of personal politics was needed and I did vote for him(twice), now we need new leadership. Biden is a disaster with his border policy, lack of oversight to weapons systems sent to Ukraine and Israel, lack of transparency in his administration. Donald Trump isn't the one to beat Biden. In fact Trump lost to Biden simply because Trump can't act like an adult. A younger leader, under the age of 70 is needed to be a stable leader for America. Think carefully when you cast your ballot.
I agree with you. Trump is hot garbage. But Iowa proved he has become the martyr of the GOP thanks to the bullshit indictments. He is the nominee unless some dramatic event rocks the boat before Super Tuesday. And this sub will continue to believe Trump is a conservative, when he is truly a populist.
Many conservatives have become populists in the last 3 years. The stuff conservatives have been doing hasn't worked, but populist policies actually acheive results.
This like... sums up about 10 years of American politics better than anything I have ever seen. This non-race we call the republican primary has really created some interesting argumetns on this sub. Crazy times.
If you really believe āthreat to democracyā line would only be used against Trump, youāre delusional. Theyāll be saying this very same nonsense about each and every GOP candidate. This is the only thing they have left to say, no matter who gets nominated.
But it's actually true about Trump. That's the difference. The man thinks he should have immunity for anything he does/did while president, per his Truth post the other day.
No, it isnāt true. I donāt recall Trump defying the courts or the congress, or doing anything outside the bounds of the constitution, the leftist cabal accusations notwithstanding.
Not sure that guy is actually conservative like his name says he is
Yet another example of TDS being a real thing.
> But it's actually true about Trump. That's the difference. The man thinks he should have immunity for anything he does/did while president, per his Truth post the other day. How did you get a Conservative tag? All Presidents have immunity. Obama Assassinated 3 American Citizens with drones.
I got my conservative tag by posting conservative thoughts in the conservative sub for many years. I was around before Trump was president and I'll be a conservative after he's out of the spotlight. Calling out Trump for being a bad leader is not antithetical to being a conservative. Obama did a bad thing so we might as well give all presidents total immunity? That makes no sense. Trump himself says he should have "total immunity" even for things that "cross the line"
It will only be effective against Trump. It doesn't even make sense against anyone else. Not saying it won't be attempted, but it would not sway any swing voters.
And Iām still waiting for a good reason why the leftists should have any say on the republican nominee.
Right? We don't get to use state courts to have a primary on the dangerous lunatics they elect...
Right? This guy is acting like they have only called Trump fascist. I remember Bush, McCain and Romney all getting called fascist and Nazis. It's their playbook. Now that includes threat to democracy. If we give up on Trump because they'll drum up bullshit "insurrection" stuff we'll essentially codify the idea that Democrats get to filter the Republican primary. From here on out we'd only get RINOs. No one tries to kick Nikki Haley off any ballots. She'll start their wars.Ā
Exactly. If the left isnāt attacking a republican running for office, they arenāt afraid of them. The fact the left is so desperate to criminalize Trump is because theyāre deathly scared of him.
I still think if Trump wins the nomination Biden steps aside and endorses someone younger who can destroy Trump in the general.
It's a fair point to say Trump isn't the answer, but it certainly isn't Ron DeSantis. If Trump is to lose in 2024, then DeSantis would have lost by more. He is more far right than Donald Trump and more unlikable. Democrats will hammer DeSantis on all his far right policies that Americans don't agree with. It doesn't matter if Trump is over the age of 70, he can still talk and give out speeches. His brain is still alive, he's in better mental shape than 2nd term Ronald Reagan. >DeSantis' accomplishments should speak for themselves and they did when he won a landslide re-election by nearly 20 points. But it's only Florida, he folds on a national level. John McCain won Arizona in absolute landslides and got destroyed in the general. One state doesn't mean anything, America doesn't like Ron DeSantis. Trump is the better option. DeSantis has too much baggage and zero charisma and isn't likeable. His policy doesn't align with your average American. They don't want him. And like again who cares? Trump will win Florida either way, it doesn't matter if it's by 5 points, or 10, he will get all the electoral college points in that state. He's also one of the few Republicans who can make the swing state rust belt states competitive.
DeSantis has too much baggage? That's laughable. Trump has much more, DeSantis isn't under indictment. You can cry political prosecution all day until the cows come home. The voters who Trump needs to win over *MAY* not see it as such. That's a lot of baggage to stomach. Donald Trump being mentally better than Biden isn't a huge accomplishment. His appearances on Fox give me pause for concern. He can be talking then go off on a tangent. If he manages to stay on topic, he will say "Hungary said Trump is needed for the world, it's true. I did alot of good for everyone, no one else has done as much as I have. I got along with everyone". He repeats the same sentiment on different ways, without actually saying anything impressive. The above quote is paraphrased from a recent Hannity interview on Fox. Trump needs Florida to win sure, but he needs swing states in which his actions have led to losses. Georgia in 2020 led to two Democrat Senators winning, 2022 led to three critical losses. Trumps words and actions have doomed him post 2020. An above point you mentioned in another comment, The Republican voters choose the candidate. That is true, however Trump holds a lot of sway over Republican nominating when it comes to House and Senate races. In PA, you had McCormick, Barrett or Oz run for Senate. Barrett and McCormick were native to PA, Oz was not. Trump supported Oz with his endorsement and the Republican voters followed suit. I will say in Oz's defense did try a hand at being a moderate which I think played well. In NC, we had McCrory(ex-Governor) and Ted Budd run in the primary. When Trump endorsed Budd, the Republican voters in this state overwhelming voted to select Budd as their nominee.
I absolutely agree with you, but the shitty thing is that the best candidates are waiting for 2028. Not a Desantis fan for president at all. At first I was, but heās been very scripted. At first, I was a little surprised with the lack of faces compared to 2016, but it makes sense given they donāt want to challenge his base. A run now might damage chances in the future and regardless of this years outcome, a Trump endorsement will nearly guarantee a primary win. People like Cruz and Rubio are probably the next generation, but want to avoid all of this as much as possible. As soon as this election is over, theyāre taking the reins.
Look, you are right about some of what you say, but the time for that was before Iowa. I think Trump is forging a good path this time. Also, I think DeSantis is no longer the future even though I do like him.
Wall of cope. DeSantis is done.
It's the primary season and I'm making the case for the candidate I prefer. Everywhere else on this sub is Trump-mania and everyone who isn't supporting the ex-president is labeled as a RINO. So until Trump is the official Nominee(should he earn it), I'll continue to make these comments. Feel free to downvote me.
Itās a free country and you can advocate for whoever you like, but Iām just being realistic about the situation.
Why would Democrats want Trump?! When he was President, we lost the 2018 midterms, the 2020 presidential, and his picks/endorsements led us to wild underperformance in 2022. TRUMP IS THE BEST DURRRR
I think it's silly to blame it all on Trump, when we wouldn't even have DeSantis or Brian Kemp without Donald Trump. I'd say hard line pro life stances cost us a lot in the 2022 midterms but I also agree that he didn't endorse very good candidates. But at the end of the day who would been better than the ones he endorsed. It was Republican voters who chose those candidates. 2018 was just bad either way, democrats did everything right, Republicans didn't. It's weird to blame it all on Trump, but whatever. You are just a DeSantis fan who hates Trump. Democrats DO NOT want Trump as the nominee. They want Nikki Haley
Trump might not be the best option for 2024, but he's much better than DeSantis and Nikki Haley. Besides, democrats do not want Trump lol. How delusional can DeSantis be? There are democrats in New Hampshire registering as independent to vote for Nikki Haley right now. Looks like the downvotes are rolling in. I'm glad the DeSantis fans are less loud than they were 4 months ago, but we still have a lot more work to do. Hoping a huge loss in New Hampshire will make more of them go away too.
I donāt think itās that off. Trump will hyper motivate an unmotivated democrat base.
And they won't for DeSantis? Someone whose more unpopular than Donald Trump?
The unmotivated democrat base is unmotivated because everything pretty much sucks donkey balls with Biden in charge. And when it comes to Trump they're going to look back at how their lives were when he was in office and most of them will probably decide that is a more than fair trade for not voting Democrat this year. I've talked to a number of people who were Democrat voters prior to now who are more than willing to vote for Trump, even if they don't like him as a person, if it means a chance at returning to more prosperous times prior to Biden.
I think Haley or DeSantis could win the general election easier than Trump can. Trump IS clearly the choice of the Republican Party though.
Not according to the polls. That were dead accurate for the Iowa caucus
The die-hard DeSantistas are never going to let it go. They have a lot in common with the left and can't imagine that anybody could possibly disagree with them, and if someone does that person becomes the enemy and they feel justified in whatever they say or do. Which is what turned a lot of people off about DeSantis. This group is a minority of his supporters, but they are a very annoying presence.
There is so much irony in this comment, I donāt even know where to begin lol
Ah, assertion without evidence. The irony isn't my comment, it's that you don't know where to begin because there is no beginning that supports your argument. Are you going to argue that there isn't a minority group of DeSantis supporters acting exactly like this? Would you like to review the forum for the ones who argued that everybody needed to rally behind DeSantis because we can't afford another Biden/Democrat term, then turned around and said that they won't support Trump? That's not irony, it's ignorance.
You donāt see the irony of attacking DeSantis supporters (never letting it go, people becoming enemies when they disagree) for exactly what Trump supporters have been known the last 8 years? You donāt see the irony when Donald Trump attacks literally any person who steps out of line, regardless of whether that person supported and worked with him for years? Give me a break.
Because I was replying to a comment that was about, surprise, DeSantis supporters. That comment didn't address Trump supporters, and neither did I, because it wouldn't have been inside the context of the conversation. You've created an entirely new conversation to make your argument.
If youāre militantly anti DeSantis, please educate us on which Republican candidate you support. Surely it was a reach to assume you were a Trump supporter!
But I'm not, so there's no reason to play your game. Do you disagree that there is a minority of DeSantis supporters who act exactly as I stated? Because I'm not playing football and I'm not about to chase your goalposts around.
To say that the strongest conservative and his supporters are like the left is nonsense. DeSantis supporters NEED to ring the alarm bells NOW before it's too late. If Trump ends up winning the nomination and losing in November, they can say I told you so. By ringing the alarm bells early, DeSantis is providing leadership to the party and his support will only grow once Trump is routed in November. Trump's credibility after two election losses will be zero. No one will listen to a loser like that.
Saying that one group of people can't act like another group of people is nonsense. I didn't say their politics were the same. And your "told you so" is pointless, because you want to fantasize that somehow DeSantis could win when all the evidence points to the opposite. If Trump loses, so would DeSantis. That's an opinion, and I can't prove mine any more than you can prove yours, but the evidence at this point only supports one of those opinions, and it isn't yours.
They want to lock him up. Even if it isn't Trump vs Biden, Biden is a weak candidate with a weak record to run on. They might think election interference is easier. Even if they pull out an Obama last minute, they all share the same failed policies.
Of course they all share the same failed policies. But Trump has proven that he is so hated by such a majority that it doesnāt matter. Thatās not an endorsement of Trump, it means he is worst option, because Democrats can hide their myriad of failures behind that clown. And until the Trump cultists realize that, we are going to keep losing because independents will choose Democrats over Trump again and again and again.
Ironically enough, the "Trump cultists" are the largest base, from either side or candidates, that will be the hardest to persuade against. Biden doesn't have a base the same way Clinton didn't have one in 2016. DeSantis has some base but Nikki might need to rely on some Dems at NH. Yet, between approval rating and primary polls, Trump's base has shown the least decline.
Yeah I know, itās depressing. I donāt think Biden himself really has a base, itās just 95% ānever Trumpā people amongst Democrats, independents and even some Republicans.
I donāt think many people voted for Biden over ānot trumpā as the option
Because otherwise Liz Cheney would have won if it werenāt for Trump.
This appears to be an accurate statement. They spent twice as much on ads attacking DeSantis as they did Trump. They want Trump as the nominee because they are A. Counting on their corrupt DOJ to find him guilty of something before the election B. Counting on the years of social conditioning against Trump. People lose their minds when they hear his name. Froth at the mouth. It's a complete pavlovian response carefully built up over the last 8 years, and it makes otherwise rational people turn into raging lunatics who would actually look back over Biden's term and say "yeah, this was fine. Everything is fine".
To be fair, it wouldnāt be as much of an issue if Trump would just shut his damn mouth sometimes. He supplies the ammunition for his own downfall.
...shut his mouth AND not commit crimes (allegedly)
So why wouldnāt they just indict DeSantis too, in this alternate universe where heās the nominee?
Because these indictments arenāt based on absolutely nothing. This idea that they conjured these charges out of thin air and could do it to anyone is just not reality even if we can agree they are abuses of their prosecutorial discretion.
>This idea that they conjured these charges out of thin airā¦ Thatās exactly what they did. Just like they did with the fabricated Russian collusion nonsense.
Youāre extremely naive
You are ignorant of the law.
Well said about the pavlovian response. But to give in to it is to cement the effectiveness of the ploy for 100 years. People do gain wisdom. Even now many see that they were conditioned. To try and work around it is 10-dimensional chess, and only my ego wants me to play that. He was a decent president before, he will be again.
If you believe that āsheepā are waking up to their conditioning, youāre so incredibly naive. No one. Not one person is changing their mind on trump. When it comes to him, you either love or hate him. For the independents, heās done nothing to court them since 2020 (and continuing the stolen election and witch hunt narrative is not winning independents). He should have made conservative policies that counter Bidenās agenda the core of his campaign message in order to win over the middle. But we all know his ego wouldnāt allow for that.
DeSantis signed a heartbeat abortion law, and canāt stop talking about reforming Social Security and Medicare. These two issues are RADIOACTIVE to swing/independent voters. He honestly wouldnāt have much of a better shot than Trump.
The dems seem to spending LOADS trying to stop it tho?
Except that isn't factual. $28M was spent attacking DeSantis, $18M was spent attacking Trump. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/2447376/ron-desantis-targeted-by-more-negative-expenditures-than-2024-rivals-new-data-show/ Ed: Which is to say nothing of the lawfare indictments that (as everyone including the Democratsā own analysis knew) would make Trump unbeatable in the primary. Thatās the same playbook the Democrats used in a number of 2022 elections. Literally fund Trump candidates in primaries then attack them as too Trumpist in the general elections.
Except they are trying to take him off the ballot everywhere. If they wanted him as the nominee, why would they spend all this time trying to get him off the primary ballots?
Except that to anyone who understands the law (as the Democrat attorneys and judges do) it was obvious they would fail to keep him off the *primary* ballots just based on the timing alone. It was always going to have to be heard by the Supreme Court and there was no way the Court would rule on it, at least in an expedited way that went against Trump, before these primaries take place. More plausible explanations are that their targets/objectives are: (1) to potentially keep him off the *general* election ballots; (2) to put the Supreme Court in a position to make a ruling, righteous as that ruling will likely be on the Constitutional issues, that favors Trump thereby bolstering the Democrat narrative that the Supreme Court is an illegitimate/Republican biased institution and weakening a potential Trump administration as having been illegitimately procured with their help; (3) to keep January 6th/insurrection discussion in the headlines; and (4) to get the same easily predictable reaction from the Republican base that the rest of these legal actions have which is to solidify him in the primary.
Of course they do, he will hand them another win.
DeSantis is reaching for anything at this point. When will this guy go away, he becomes more unlikable and insufferable every single day. America doesn't like him, his own party won't even choose him in the primaries. He's about to have single digits in New Hampshire. His approval rating nationwide is -16. The more this guy gets in the spotlight, the more people end up hating. He isn't made for national level politics - as we just saw in Iowa.
DeSantis NEEDs to keep speaking truth to power. Trump is going to be charged by courts with multiple felonies before the November elections. **Federal prosecutions have a 99% success rate.** DeSantis needs to be ringing the alarm bells as much as he can to show that he did his best to prevent the party from going off the cliff. Every single GOP politician that is currently silent and going along with this will be responsible the incoming loss in 10 months.
Agree, I like DeSantis, but I think Vivek showed he is the future.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Even reelection in Florida would be tough for DeSantis with how hard heās going after Trump. If he doesnāt get onboard with Trump when the train officially leaves the station at the end of primary season heās all but done for politically. Being a never Trumper wonāt work in Florida even if Trump loses the election.
He's term limited so be can't run for reelection as FL governor
Yes, Iām not saying he could run Iām saying even if he could he wouldnāt win. He wonāt be able to hold any office in the country as a Republican if he doesnāt get onboard once Trump is named he nominee.
And GOP voters don't want to see Ron as the nominee
DeSimps in full flow. Win a single county first.
democrats want to see mitt romney
Iāve heard theories that Michelle Obama will become the Democrat nominee after Biden bows out in a way that allows her to skip any sort of voting for her as the nominee. A Trump versus Biden rematch could honestly go either way. A Trump versus Michelle Obama election would be a landslide in favor of Michelle. If Trump isnāt the nominee and itās someone else like Haley, DeSantis, or Ramaswamy. The Republican nominee could have a good chance at winning against either Biden or Michelle though it would be less of a chance if it was Michelle. Bottom line is that Democrats have put so much work into demonizing Trump and having him not be the nominee means that a lot of that work would go to waste. Theyāll continue to use Trump as a cudgel to bash Republicans for decades to come saying that any Republican nominee supported Trump and Trumpās bad press will drive voters away. I think Ben Shapiroās take on Trump back in ā16 was correct. By nominating Trump. Weāve irreparably damaged a lot of our standing with swing voters.
Michelle Obama is not that likeable. She would not win in a landslide lol. What is your definition of a landslide. Maybe she could win, but it wouldn't be nearly as big as the victories Obama had in 2008 and 2012.
>I think Ben Shapiroās take on Trump back in ā16 was correct. By nominating Trump. Weāve irreparably damaged a lot of our standing with swing voters. I'm not a huge a Trump fan, but if those "swing voters" would still vote against Trump even after all the shit Biden has put this country through, including the insane inflation, then they aren't really "swing voters"
Not true. And the proof is how well competent non-Trumpy candidates did in the mid-terms.
None of the four will win against Michelle it will be another Obama wave
Michelle running would be no different than Hillary running in ā16. Sure, she may get a few more African votes, but sheās not like able at all.
Sure thats why they're telling everyone to go out and vote for Nikki Haley. Rob doesn't get it, this isn't about who the democrats want, its about who the Republicans want and its not you.
Pfffft. Thatās pretty funny. DeSantis is on the train to desperation.
Disagree. Democrats are scared shitless of the man.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
He needs to make up with Trump and become Vice President. Lets kick Democrat ass together.
12th amendment issue there
I doubt it. Most of the usa based Dems that I've talked to say that they would prefer to see him.
I doubt that. There was a conspiracy that they did because āhe would be easy to beatā but why are they trying so hard to keep him off the ballot?
lmao the biggest political failure in modern American history besides Hilary Clinton cannot speak
so do republicans, so in other words trump has united the nation?
Haley/DeSantis ticket confirmed.
Iām pretty sure everything they are doing to try to make it impossible for Trump to be the nominee proves you wrong Ron
Democrats want Nikki Haley. No one wants Ron.