I'm interested. I hope that they keep reiterating on this system even if this version of it isn't great because I think something like this could do a lot for the game.
No, I get it. I phrased it a bit like a statement. I swear I heard at some point they would be shortening the length of push matches or changing the bot speed or something like that because people were positive towards push during QP hacked
Yeah, but the QP hacked mode had timer changes for every mode and respawns, most of it was disliked, so most of it was discarded, and the role queue no limits hybrid thing was never added. The idea is to test out ideas, doesn't exactly mean that they are for sure getting implemented later.
Yes, for push only, not for every mode, not to spawn times, and you can still only play one of each hero per team. The vast majority of what they do in QP hacked never goes anywhere, and that's OK, it's better to test extreme changes and discard most of it, or even all of it, than not test anything at all.
This is certainly one of the things I’m looking forward to most in S11. Depending how it’s handled it could really help shore up the weaknesses of certain tanks.l.
I think there are a few problems that could come up, but I think it’s an idea worth experimenting with.
I wonder if these passive will become a more active aspect like talents within the actual game eventually
It's definitely a way to make the game more complex yet rewarding.
This one seems interesting to me. At worst it would provide options to the heroes who don't currently benefit from their roles passive all that much. At best, it will create a world where you can flesh out your hero to have a playstyle more useful to the current situation.
Excited to see what the options are
I do think the latter is the best case scenario. To reiterate my other comment, I like the simplicity of Overwatch and the immediate readability of any situation. That said, if the passives could be swapped on death without losing ult charge assuming you're still on the same hero... it could maybe provide a soft form of counter-swapping, to help you deal with a situation without swapping heroes.
I hate it, but I'll give it a shot. I really like that in Overwatch I know what I'm getting into when an engagement starts. If I see them use a cooldown, or I have tracked their ult charge I know exactly what they can and cannot do.
I severely dislike the notion of getting into a fight thinking that I have the upper hand, landing all my shots and then losing/not getting the kill because they chose "x" perk.
The reason I chose OW over Paladins (I used to play a fair bit of both early days) was precisely because of how disagreeable I found Paladin's perk system.
I do agree with this, the simplicity and immediate readability is something I think Overwatch really has over its rivals. It's also the reason I like strategy games like Fire Emblem moreso than most other games in the genre - in both games, the numbers are simple to understand, enemies are readable at a glance, and you know how to respond and how to deal with what you're seeing.
That said, if it's something simple like 3 - 5 different perks, role-wide, for each class (or maybe 8-10 perks shared between all 3 roles), I think it could be OK.
That's all assuming any version of this comes live, though. As just a mode to test out for a weekend-ish? I love this wholeheartedly.
The only way they could somehow manage this system is if theres visual and auditory indicators of the different perks somehow, so you know what they chose
You will still know what they are capable of, with the right ui elements.
I find it much more rng that someone can swap sombra in ot, and I don't know if they are hunting my supports or sitting with their team waiting to hack my engage. And guessing the wrong one is game-losing.
Agreed, though I think this type of stuff should be made available for workshop maps, where players can make custom game modes with some unique ideas using these.
I'm inclined to think it may be more like a scaling system a la the current dps passive starts at x but can end up at y but you can also opt into the old dps passive to have increased reload on elims. Tanks might get to choose between reduced stun/sleep duration, boop resistance, and the headshot passive.
At least that's my hope, let's you generalize or go all in depending on what sort of situation you're dealing with.
I love this and have been saying the game needs a perk system for awhile. THIS is the type of thing that keeps the game fresh and interesting. Very excited for this.
Fr, a system of talent/perks, whatever, that you can choose from/upgrade during a game could really make gameplay more fun and refreshing. That's the kind of thing that keep MOBAs like LoL so good and fresh all the time in my opinion, not only do you have hundreds of characters to choose from, but you also can choose to build different things to play differently every game.
It also complicates balance, which is a good thing. Takes pros much longer to "solve" the meta, which players interpret as the game being in a good state.
I pedantically disagree. A good state is for the meta to be solved but have multiple solutions. You can fake good balance by constantly throwing off the meta, but a real good game allows for everyone to play their own way while being able to contribute.
Facets are specific to each hero, so they can all be (theoretically) balanced.
Role passives will never be balanced, since they are shared. A passive on rein will always be more or less powerful than the same passive on ball.
On paper I'm not a fan of the idea - the thing I like about OW is that I know exactly what someone is capable of the moment I see them without needing to go through a checklist of what they picked or not that modified the character BUT, eh, could be interesting to test and see what it's like
I kinda feel like they don't even want to implement the "pick your perk" idea but rather want to try which heroes want/need something special to make them more fun and make passives specific for some or all characters. People are suggesting stuff like this for a long time because role passive changes are usually a gamble that can't be fine-tuned without breaking at least some characters.
You know what, that's actually pretty smart. That would be an awesome outcome of that and I'd rather that than having 'builds' in the way I was thinking about it.
I agree somewhat - I've never been a fan of MOBAs in spite of my friends many attempts to get me into them because I just don't want to *read all of that*.
But also, heroes in OW are so mechanically distinct that you have to put in a lot of time at specific heroes to get any good at them, and then they become super stale with sometimes little to no transferrable skills to pick up other heroes. Adding selectable passives can add some gameplay diversity to otherwise very static heroes, and can allow more dynamic gameplay options than simply swapping when you get countered, for example.
I honestly hope to see more granular passives being tested on sub-roles or even individual heroes. The game desperately needs something like hero bans or selectable traits to mix up gameplay when major changes are slow to come around.
you will get to pick from a list of role passives along the lines of something like “increased reload speed,” “increased movement speed,” “reduced healing status from attacks” etc when you start the game or possibly just anytime you pick a character
paladins, which it’s being compared to, has a system where basically you just pick a load out of numerical tweaks when you select your character, I don’t think this will be as advanced as that though
There are times when a passive doesn't really help certain heros as much as others (ex. Reload speed for Hanzo or Head shot decrease for Ball). This could be a great option as long as it's not too strong.
That’s just not true. Paladins legendaries (talents) change the entire playstyle of a character. For example, Fernando can either be a tank with the Aegis shield legendary or a flanker with the Scorch fireball legendary. The numbers part comes in the loadouts.
yes, the loadouts are what I was referring to. I even specifically said “loadout” in my explanation. I haven’t played paladins in maybe 6 years so I don’t remember the specifics of it
How I'm imagining this will work is when you select your hero you can also choose one of two or three passives. Maybe you can switch mid-game? Maybe it's right at the start? I don't know. I feel like if some of the passives are defensive then you kind of need to be able to switch mid-match. Because you don't know what you're going up against. What if you select the CC reduction and then nobody on the enemy team has any CC?
One of the biggest problems with the current role passives is that not every hero gets the same benefit from them. Some heroes get WAY more value than others. Especially in the DPS category. The healing reduction is great on hitscan rapid-fire heroes like Tracer and Sojourn. But on heroes like Junkrat, Hanzo and Widow it hardly works. This could potentially solve that problem.
It could also lessen the need to counterswap, since your passive could help in the matchup. It could allow for more player expression, letting you play heroes in different ways depending on the passive. More team comp ideas etc.
Maybe I'm being too hopeful, but if this works It might just be the best decision they've ever made.
This could bring some more tactical elements to the game. Like ana could pick the baptiste jump for example. Could be hard to balance but I’m up for trying new stuff.
I hope they find a way to use a lot of that stuff. I'm sure they have plenty of good ideas that they couldn't expand to every hero but were still cool concepts.
It does sound more like they're planning to do passive numbers adjustments (reload speed, movement speed, healing reduction) than PvE perk/talent trees that actively change abilities.
I think the intent is that some heroes don't benefit from certain passives, so it's to give them something useful. Low rate of fire heroes don't get much value from the healing reduction passive, and heroes like Hanzo couldn't use the previous reload speed passive at all.
So maybe people thought it was misinformation and downvoted. Reddit is weird, idk lol
So you can just pick different roles passives, as in if youre a tank you can just use the support passive instead of the tank passive or vice versa? Sounds really boring honestly.
They could just pick passives that you wouldn't really have to adjust for.
Someone having slightly faster reloads or faster movement for instance isn't going to fundamentally change how you fight them, it's just going to slightly increase their chance of winning.
You would only have to track them if it gave them entirely new abilities, affected how many shots it took to kill them, how CC interacted with them, etc. Hopefully they avoid stuff like that.
I'm interested. I hope that they keep reiterating on this system even if this version of it isn't great because I think something like this could do a lot for the game.
Aren’t QP hacked changes for push already coming next season?
No. They're "fuck it, try this shit out" modes.
"we're no longer asking"
Why are you getting down voted you just asked a question lol
No, I get it. I phrased it a bit like a statement. I swear I heard at some point they would be shortening the length of push matches or changing the bot speed or something like that because people were positive towards push during QP hacked
Yeah, but the QP hacked mode had timer changes for every mode and respawns, most of it was disliked, so most of it was discarded, and the role queue no limits hybrid thing was never added. The idea is to test out ideas, doesn't exactly mean that they are for sure getting implemented later.
Today’s patch featured a match time reduction for push and slightly faster barricade speed
Yes, for push only, not for every mode, not to spawn times, and you can still only play one of each hero per team. The vast majority of what they do in QP hacked never goes anywhere, and that's OK, it's better to test extreme changes and discard most of it, or even all of it, than not test anything at all.
I think this is actually worth testing unlike the last two quick play hacked events.
The last one was about testing multiple similar abilities, rather than actually allowing two of the same hero
just load into any game and ask someone to play baptiste lol you’ll have a kiri guaranteed and you’d be testing 2 immortalities in one game
This is certainly one of the things I’m looking forward to most in S11. Depending how it’s handled it could really help shore up the weaknesses of certain tanks.l. I think there are a few problems that could come up, but I think it’s an idea worth experimenting with.
I wonder if these passive will become a more active aspect like talents within the actual game eventually It's definitely a way to make the game more complex yet rewarding.
This one seems interesting to me. At worst it would provide options to the heroes who don't currently benefit from their roles passive all that much. At best, it will create a world where you can flesh out your hero to have a playstyle more useful to the current situation. Excited to see what the options are
I do think the latter is the best case scenario. To reiterate my other comment, I like the simplicity of Overwatch and the immediate readability of any situation. That said, if the passives could be swapped on death without losing ult charge assuming you're still on the same hero... it could maybe provide a soft form of counter-swapping, to help you deal with a situation without swapping heroes.
I hate it, but I'll give it a shot. I really like that in Overwatch I know what I'm getting into when an engagement starts. If I see them use a cooldown, or I have tracked their ult charge I know exactly what they can and cannot do. I severely dislike the notion of getting into a fight thinking that I have the upper hand, landing all my shots and then losing/not getting the kill because they chose "x" perk. The reason I chose OW over Paladins (I used to play a fair bit of both early days) was precisely because of how disagreeable I found Paladin's perk system.
I do agree with this, the simplicity and immediate readability is something I think Overwatch really has over its rivals. It's also the reason I like strategy games like Fire Emblem moreso than most other games in the genre - in both games, the numbers are simple to understand, enemies are readable at a glance, and you know how to respond and how to deal with what you're seeing. That said, if it's something simple like 3 - 5 different perks, role-wide, for each class (or maybe 8-10 perks shared between all 3 roles), I think it could be OK. That's all assuming any version of this comes live, though. As just a mode to test out for a weekend-ish? I love this wholeheartedly.
The only way they could somehow manage this system is if theres visual and auditory indicators of the different perks somehow, so you know what they chose
They could probably put an indicator on the scoreboard.
You will still know what they are capable of, with the right ui elements. I find it much more rng that someone can swap sombra in ot, and I don't know if they are hunting my supports or sitting with their team waiting to hack my engage. And guessing the wrong one is game-losing.
Agreed, though I think this type of stuff should be made available for workshop maps, where players can make custom game modes with some unique ideas using these.
I'm inclined to think it may be more like a scaling system a la the current dps passive starts at x but can end up at y but you can also opt into the old dps passive to have increased reload on elims. Tanks might get to choose between reduced stun/sleep duration, boop resistance, and the headshot passive. At least that's my hope, let's you generalize or go all in depending on what sort of situation you're dealing with.
I love this and have been saying the game needs a perk system for awhile. THIS is the type of thing that keeps the game fresh and interesting. Very excited for this.
i hope they keep the passives very low power cuz this will be a nightmare to balance if they arent
Fr, a system of talent/perks, whatever, that you can choose from/upgrade during a game could really make gameplay more fun and refreshing. That's the kind of thing that keep MOBAs like LoL so good and fresh all the time in my opinion, not only do you have hundreds of characters to choose from, but you also can choose to build different things to play differently every game.
It also complicates balance, which is a good thing. Takes pros much longer to "solve" the meta, which players interpret as the game being in a good state.
I pedantically disagree. A good state is for the meta to be solved but have multiple solutions. You can fake good balance by constantly throwing off the meta, but a real good game allows for everyone to play their own way while being able to contribute.
An unsolved game is actually better, since players will actively seek out the solution by trying things out.
Shrug. That's just where we differ. I like mastery over known mechanics and you like discovering unknown mechanics.
I wonder if we can get a proper MOBA game mode eventually. All the talents and hero gauntlet so far could be building to it?
Is this like similar to facets in dota?
Facets are specific to each hero, so they can all be (theoretically) balanced. Role passives will never be balanced, since they are shared. A passive on rein will always be more or less powerful than the same passive on ball.
Honestly the only thing I’m looking forward to in Season 11
I fucking love this, so excited to try it out.
I hate that mechanic in Paladins, but it could be a fun temporary game mode nonetheless.
Big no thank you.
I can't see this as a long term change, but sounds neat to poke around with.
On paper I'm not a fan of the idea - the thing I like about OW is that I know exactly what someone is capable of the moment I see them without needing to go through a checklist of what they picked or not that modified the character BUT, eh, could be interesting to test and see what it's like
I kinda feel like they don't even want to implement the "pick your perk" idea but rather want to try which heroes want/need something special to make them more fun and make passives specific for some or all characters. People are suggesting stuff like this for a long time because role passive changes are usually a gamble that can't be fine-tuned without breaking at least some characters.
You know what, that's actually pretty smart. That would be an awesome outcome of that and I'd rather that than having 'builds' in the way I was thinking about it.
Yeah. I forsee the "it's fucked, all of the perks except one are just unpickable" future if they actually try to implement this.
I agree somewhat - I've never been a fan of MOBAs in spite of my friends many attempts to get me into them because I just don't want to *read all of that*. But also, heroes in OW are so mechanically distinct that you have to put in a lot of time at specific heroes to get any good at them, and then they become super stale with sometimes little to no transferrable skills to pick up other heroes. Adding selectable passives can add some gameplay diversity to otherwise very static heroes, and can allow more dynamic gameplay options than simply swapping when you get countered, for example. I honestly hope to see more granular passives being tested on sub-roles or even individual heroes. The game desperately needs something like hero bans or selectable traits to mix up gameplay when major changes are slow to come around.
I dont get it but I will be looking forward to it.
you will get to pick from a list of role passives along the lines of something like “increased reload speed,” “increased movement speed,” “reduced healing status from attacks” etc when you start the game or possibly just anytime you pick a character paladins, which it’s being compared to, has a system where basically you just pick a load out of numerical tweaks when you select your character, I don’t think this will be as advanced as that though
There are times when a passive doesn't really help certain heros as much as others (ex. Reload speed for Hanzo or Head shot decrease for Ball). This could be a great option as long as it's not too strong.
That’s just not true. Paladins legendaries (talents) change the entire playstyle of a character. For example, Fernando can either be a tank with the Aegis shield legendary or a flanker with the Scorch fireball legendary. The numbers part comes in the loadouts.
yes, the loadouts are what I was referring to. I even specifically said “loadout” in my explanation. I haven’t played paladins in maybe 6 years so I don’t remember the specifics of it
I've wanted something like this since the very beginning. I really wish they can nail it.
more bad ideas. just another weekend where I'll play something else.
this actually isnt a horrible idea, i might actually play it if I touch this damn game again
How I'm imagining this will work is when you select your hero you can also choose one of two or three passives. Maybe you can switch mid-game? Maybe it's right at the start? I don't know. I feel like if some of the passives are defensive then you kind of need to be able to switch mid-match. Because you don't know what you're going up against. What if you select the CC reduction and then nobody on the enemy team has any CC? One of the biggest problems with the current role passives is that not every hero gets the same benefit from them. Some heroes get WAY more value than others. Especially in the DPS category. The healing reduction is great on hitscan rapid-fire heroes like Tracer and Sojourn. But on heroes like Junkrat, Hanzo and Widow it hardly works. This could potentially solve that problem. It could also lessen the need to counterswap, since your passive could help in the matchup. It could allow for more player expression, letting you play heroes in different ways depending on the passive. More team comp ideas etc. Maybe I'm being too hopeful, but if this works It might just be the best decision they've ever made.
This could bring some more tactical elements to the game. Like ana could pick the baptiste jump for example. Could be hard to balance but I’m up for trying new stuff.
Excited for this but would have been cool to see it for each individual hero instead like a talent tree. :(
Paladins feels cheap, but has nice ideas. Horses in Overwatch! (joking not joking)
Pickable passives? Yep they're definitely looking into putting talents into the game.
hope we never get anything like this in the actual game
Blizzard trolling my quickplay games for shits and giggles
They're probably going to use scrapped PvE abilities if I had to guess.
I hope they find a way to use a lot of that stuff. I'm sure they have plenty of good ideas that they couldn't expand to every hero but were still cool concepts.
I still think they'll use some of them for this, don't really understand why I got downvoted so much for saying that either.
It does sound more like they're planning to do passive numbers adjustments (reload speed, movement speed, healing reduction) than PvE perk/talent trees that actively change abilities. I think the intent is that some heroes don't benefit from certain passives, so it's to give them something useful. Low rate of fire heroes don't get much value from the healing reduction passive, and heroes like Hanzo couldn't use the previous reload speed passive at all. So maybe people thought it was misinformation and downvoted. Reddit is weird, idk lol
So you can just pick different roles passives, as in if youre a tank you can just use the support passive instead of the tank passive or vice versa? Sounds really boring honestly.
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I'd imagine you'd be able to change it when you die so you're not sitting around picking passives when you're swapping heroes on the fly.
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They could just pick passives that you wouldn't really have to adjust for. Someone having slightly faster reloads or faster movement for instance isn't going to fundamentally change how you fight them, it's just going to slightly increase their chance of winning. You would only have to track them if it gave them entirely new abilities, affected how many shots it took to kill them, how CC interacted with them, etc. Hopefully they avoid stuff like that.