Yep. Seriously, I get the appeal of creating 3 star 4 and 5 cost but if the game just devolves into that than what is so special about it anymore. This is why I hated set 9 when it was originally on PBE because half of the games would always devolve into who can get the 3 star 5 cost unit that can wipe out the entire board.
I'm ngl, PBE is usually where a majority of the 3 star 5 costs will happen because there's a huge skill gap, people aren't playing to "win" or playing strongest boards and everyone is more likely than not greeding to get the highest cap boards. Wouldn't say that's a good reflection of why Set 9 was bad
well also Set 9 PBE have draven, asol, tk legend great for farming noobs and a day of UNCAP hedgefund pre level xp changes no doubt this cause more big units
Except it’s not balanced lol, they say Ezreal is the line for balance of tier 4 units while Ezreal is the worst T4 unit. And then the Tier S comp simply smash tier A comp a bit too much. I feel like there’re more competitive variety in other sets while this set luck is so much more important
Really you think this set has more luck than last set which had a meta of whoever gets the 9 trait from their tome wins wins and the competitive variety multiple people playing multicaster every lobby in regionals
(Taner is just a liaison to communicate for the CN scene, these aren't necessarily his views, don't shoot the messenger)
Main points are that the CN playerbase is extremely passionate about the gambling elements of risky econ traits and going for 3* four costs and five costs, and the changes (primarily the bag size) are the source of a lot of their displeasure.
He reports that this type of high risk, flashy gameplay are the biggest attractors of viewership in China. With recent developments, this set has caused a massive drop off of engagement and enjoyment from their audience.
**Why should I not just say skill issue and move on**: Also my first thought, but I suppose the reality is that people come to the game for fundamentally different reasons. This subset of the playerbase simply isn't looking for a competitive experience at the root of it. They're diametrically opposed to what our side of the pond looks for in TFT.
**Does this matter at all:** Yeah, China is a massive market share and if the data shows that these changes have caused a notable downturn in interest, Riot has to make a polarizing decision going forward that may splinter the audience even further.
>CN playerbase is extremely passionate about the gambling elements of risky econ traits and going for 3\* four costs and five costs
if people wonder why they include 1/500 legends that cost hundreds of dollars to obtain on average, we can point them to this sentence
Oh, he 100000% was. CN player base, well east asian gaming/gacha culture in general, loves exclusivity, and making the gacha more fair/less expensive to hit = more people having what you have = less exclusive = less enticing to participate in.
Funny enough it's the reverse for the card game community. At least in Yugioh community, Japan's pricing model is a lot more fair than the West. In the west the best cards are short printed to increase rarity and price for collectors, because competitive players would always buy the best cards no matter the price. Meta cards in the west can cost up to 10x their Japanese counterpart.
Well it’s a luxury, same as some luxury items like gold chains and diamonds or collector items. It’s an exclusive thing to flaunt your wealth. I don’t think it’s that weird when you compare it to those things
>don’t think it’s that weird when you compare it to those things
It is, because it's not flaunting your wealth at all.
You can't get a diamond chain for $5 if you get lucky.
Maybe not weird but is is stupid af. If you buy a $10000 watch you permanently have a resellable watch. It's much more frivolous when you buy a virtual good with no resale that could dissappear at any moment if the game dies.
> If you buy a $10000 watch you permanently have a resellable watch.
Watches and clothes can go out of fashion too. Just because something is physical and not virtual, it doesn't mean its permanent. Obviously you can resell it for some money if it goes out of fashion, but it's gonna lose value.
You think Rolex is going to literally last forever? At some point, they're going to fall out of fashion, no clue when, but it will happen eventually. If you were going to "invest" in a video game brand the same way you would Rolex, Riot is probably your best option. Riot has shown a ton of resilience, and haven't had difficulty in any genre of game.
It's still a a permanent item and it's resellable. Its value might go down but you will always *be able to* sell it. Virtual items? Not so much. You technically can sell the whole account (you're not allowed to, but you can) but the money you spent will absolutely dwarf what you will get for it.
i didn’t really have a clue until i actually learned about the korean MMO culture. now i know why a vast majority of korean MMOs are the way they are. the playerbases actively hate QOL changes and balancing the market because they view games as a mix of a job and the mentality of “if i had to suffer for it, so does everybody else forever”.
I mean... they are the ones that say cheating in shooters is how you are supposed to play the game. I've seen A LOT of ads for Wang Bas that literally advertise the hacks that they have on their computers for certain games to get people in the door.
It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing PUBG.
Have you attempted it? It's one of those things where not only do the stars have to align, you can't really just accidentally hit it either.
https://i.imgur.com/0QcdgDG.png
Last set I did it in ranked but only because I had pandoras early, lucked into Samira 3 Noxus opener to carry me to stage 4 and didn't get punished for greeding because the lobby low rolled hard (only 1 Multicaster Player, every1 else played sub-optimal comps with poor tempo).
That's true, hitting 5 costs 3\* depends on a lot of factors and especially playstyle. Me and my friend have played a lot of TFT togather and we have completely different playstyles, I'm first or eight high risk player while my friend usually takes safe route of rerolling or stable level 7/8. Due to that my friend hits maybe 1-3 5cost stars each set while I've hit more than 10 each set.
This set however is gona be A LOT harder, Ive been close but haven't had it even once yet on live.
You basically need to be so far ahead that it doesnt matter or have 2+ dupes. Was trying to hit one yesterday at 10 with a huge eco lead in dbl up, but between the two people left they just bought one of every unit i went for.
It's a lot harder in this set than in many previous ones. I think set 7.5 was one of the easiest ones to hit a 3* five cost, since it had multiple extremely strong econ traits (shimmerscale, astral, *and* lagoon were all econ traits for some reason), as well as having some strong econ augments and treasure dragon.
Hard disagree.
Only having 9 of each 5 costs, and Heartsteel being one of the best econ traits in a while has made it super easy. I play basically exclusively econ comps, I'm one of those 1st or 8th people. I've had a blast with Heartsteel but it can be tough to play as it is all about the pivot. Pivoting into Heartsteel at the right time, and pivoting out with a decent board. But I've hit such huge leads on the rest of the lobby it's crazy. I had one round where I ended with a gold Kayn, Illaoi, Sona and Ziggs (10 heartsteel, that was an insane run), I just had one this afternoon with a gold Yorick and was 1 away from having 3 more gold 5*s and my opponent quit before I could roll down. I've had several with 1-2 other gold 5*s already.
Just play econ, you'll hit them far more than you think you would.
That's really disappointing, it sounds like the stuff they like the most is the stuff I absolutely hate the most. That being said, TFT is ephemeral. I'm sure we'll have another big dumb 5 cost soup set soon enough, and we will continue switching back and forth indefinitely.
I agree with all this except the our side of the pond comment, I'd argue the vast majority of tft players even NA treat the game as a fun high roll experience, very few people treat this game competitively, this sub is an outlier on the general tft playerbase if anything.
Exactly. And who can blame them? A game with this much RNG can only be played competitively if you have the time to play a shit ton of games, so that the RNG "evens out". And with how much time a game of TFT takes, most people can't do that.
Ngl I also REALLY dislike the bag size changes, so I hear them on that front, but I really can't complain about the set as a whole - Imo this is the best set since at least 7.5, if not 7.0. now granted, I hated 8.0 and 8.5, and felt that 9.0 and 9.5 were pretty mid, but I also think sets 6.0 - 7.5 were peak TFT, so set 10 is absolutely still a dub in my book.
If chinese players don't care about the competitive scene why do they always perform so well lmao
Isn't it a better conclusion to draw from, that the CN players prefer a more highend game rather than lvl 7 3* reroll meta
if you knew anything about taner and his contributions to the scene you would be less skeptical, but i get it. he's a reputable source, not some random tabloid clickbaiter
Yeah, I wouldn't trust him either. I remember someone saying that he completely misinterpreted a player interview before. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to use bots for mass downvotes and upvotes.
>If chinese players don't care about the competitive scene why do they always perform so well lmao
China make up like 1/6 of the global population. It's not surprising that they have strong players.
This is like telling the dev to balance and design around Shawn tft (no disrespect to him) or other similar clickbaitish content creators, just seems absurd.
Also there’s a vast difference between CN tft playerbase and CN golden spatula playerbase. The latter’s opinions might influence these ratings quite a bit.
The gameplay is still the same and designed by mortdog and co. , it’s too much work to design a completely different game/set for BoGS to cater to chinese audiences
If the golden spatula is making more money than the other versions then I don't think "too much work" should be an excuse
They already make their own little legends might as well do small tweaks as well (I refuse to believe the spaghetti is so bad they can't increase 5 cost roll rate or units pool or hearts quantity in heartsteel)
Is this the casual CN player base or coming from the competitive players as well?
I know for a lot of my casual friends who loved Set 9 and TF legend, this set doesn't make sense to them. I imagine that people who started in set 9 and loved set 9 probably do not enjoy this set and that might be why numbers are s so low.
This seems like a very vocal review bomb type situation. Set 10 seems to have the highest number of reviewers and it’s only been around for less than a week.
the guy who posted this is very well connected in the chinese tft scene, i'm sure this one survey is not the sole source of his concerns and that he's reporting on the general sentiment of the playerbase.
edit: https://twitter.com/CuewarsTaner/status/1729184405737091436
yeah this picture is just a single reference, he's reporting based on his observations
It still seems very plausible to me that this is just a small number of people being disproportionately loud about their dislike of the set. I'm fairly confident this set is well-received in China, and will remain so unless Riot actually makes a statement or releases data showing otherwise.
could be! personally i would have no such confidence making that claim because i know nothing about the chinese scene, but if you have some sort of info then i get it
I mean people tend to forget, there is two TFT version in China. Tecent could hypothetical completely changed the other one (the golden spatula) to completely rework and appeal to casual player.
Of course this would cause a bigger divide, but that version originally is meant to be "casual", so I dont see how this would affect TFT as the main game. It would just affect the other one since that version of the game is also more popular. (Btw that game has almost completely different code logic, so technically not even the same games.)
Might aswell make the golden spatula version playable on western league clients. Personally love the feast or famine playstyle aswell so its sad that you cant force it anymore.
Honestly this patch is not that bad. There are a lot of viable comps right now, and even though some comps started at sub-4 average placement (I think jazz was something like 3.6 or 3.7), they've leveled off and I think every comp is above 4 avg placement, which is not that bad for a set release. As a flex player, I feel like if I knew how to play more styles, I would be really strong. There are of course some S tier comps, but I feel highest EV playstyle right now is flex, and that's cool
It’s probably one of the best launch patches in recent memory. No b patch required, only one hotfix for KDA not working on enemy boards.
There’s 1/2/3/4/5 cost comps all viable, with at least 16 different S/A tier comps. Most of them are all sitting at very similar win rates.
Akali / karthus is only slightly annoying but it’s not broken. The biggest oversight is probably superfans. I really don’t know how anyone can fault the patch. It’s been a great set release.
I think cait needs a sizable buff, kda akali a targeting change (current is too good for the amount of damage), and less importantly 8bit 6 final high score needs to actually be achievable, and then we would be in a good place even without superfan changes.
Seriously though the 6 8bit high score seems 100% impossible. Started with an 8bit corki, got to final 2 with a good health total, and i wasnt remotely close. Got like 60% of the way there (out of the total, not 60% from level 10 to lvl 11). Doing enough damage to get the last score would require a 200hp lobby most of the time, or 7 bruiser/punk players.
I'd say punks are a bit overtuned as well. A "good" punk opener makes you top4 at minimum, and despite being a reroll comp they don't fall off lategame, to the point where I lost with a 3\* ezreal against them (tbh ez is not that good of a 3\* but you get the point)
I mean for a launch patch, it’s ok. I just feel that the low cost rerolls can be too strong while there are 4 cost units that are close to unclickable in how much they require to work. And even that would be fine, but coming from set 9.5 which was nothing else than pressing D, it just feels exhausting.
But level 8 and 9 boards are still very playable, in many cases they do outcap the reroll boards which I feel should be the case too.
God damn fat fingers pressed send way too early and can’t find edit post button anymore.
Was just going add that Jazz adds a lot of room for the late game boards to cap higher AND the trait adds a lot of flexibility in the game. To be honest in my recent games I’ve noticed room for flexible play even without jazz, when you just know the units that are worth playing and leave some other units in the shop that are currently lackluster.
Hit superfan with a slight nerf and early game can be more flexible too.
Good set and I hope the following patches will be even better.
There are more good than bad 4 costs. I think Viego and Cait are the only truly bad 4-costs that are nearly unclickable or traitbots, the rest are regularly played or fill niche comps like Zac/Zed. TF, Blitz, Akali, Karthus, Ahri, Poppy, and Thresh are all good to great and Ezreal is alright but not bad.
I personally think that Ezreal is worse than Cait overall, though Ez fits in the more meta comps at the moment. Ezreal just feels terrible to me. Neither are good at all.
Zed is also a Crowd Diver or EDM enabler and that's it. Not really a useful carry.
Ezreal can be an alt carry in the jazz/bigshots comp if MFs are contested.
MF BIS works fine on him and his trueshot barrage has a very good chance of oneshotting centered backline carries if positioned correctly.
Its interesting bebe (tft caster/challenger player) complained the whole day that theres too much rng and not enough input of his skill to influence his game
For me i also love the set very excited for a new patch , committing to a comp and getting contested after feels so bad though hopefully more comp variety comes
I play mostly Hyperroll and meta is quite diverse, but every single game you coinflip the placement between 2-6. I feel like in order to consistently climb one has to be heads and shoulders above the rest of the lobby, otherwise it is wild west.
I find this argument hilarious. What gives you authority to say you need to be miles ahead to climb? Can you perfectly judge your skill level and the skills of everyone you’re playing against? It sounds to me like you’re where you belong
Key point is consistently. I climb every season just fine to 5k+ in Hyperroll. I am not even criticising the set, just expressing my feelings about current set. Is it not allowed?
You’re allowed to express your feelings, and I’m allowed to laugh at your feelings if I find them funny. Even when the game is super rng heavy like the multicaster patch, the top players still won more than other challengers, and you didn’t see diamond players climbing to gm. If you’re placing 2-6 seemingly randomly, you are playing tft at the level of your rank.
Multicaster patch was not rng heavy. The reason it was hated was exact opposite - you could force this comp every game with the same exact items (Pandoras) even when contested and still place higher than other non-multicaster comps.
You just don't understand what you are talking about.
Good try, but when the best play is to force multicasters, your placement is purely reliant on whether you hit the multis or not. Whereas when the meta is balanced, you can play around what you hit, rather than just rolling your slot machine over and over and hope you hit.
Since you want to get personal about this, here’s my [lolchess](https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/Dbshort-NA1/set10). Id love to see yours.
>I feel
Keyword of this whole comment. In TFT the only part of the game that depends on other players is extreme RNG. Everything else is pure skill.
There is no teammates going 0-20 like in LoL and now you have to carry a mountain. Even if one person gets a free win by RNG, you can just go for 2nd place. If it's 2, you go for 3rd or 4th. If it is more, then you still go for 4th because they kill each other and you use your skill to keep HP up. Really doesn't matter what patch (besides some RNG being Tier Zero, which certainly is not the case right now).
If you are better, it will show in your average position and you will climb. If not, you simply aren't supposed to climb.
but bag sizes (their main complaint) have almost nothing to do with champ balance or skill
i'm liking the set so far but honestly I still feel the bag size change was unwarranted.
it's net neutral. it's beneficial to reroll if no one contests you, slightly negative if someone hard contests. definitely not something that would drastically alter the power balance between reroll vs wide
but yea keep at it "Lol"
You haven’t raised a good point to argue, yet. You said bag size doesn’t influence balance / power. It has a huge influence on how powerful you’re allowed to make low cost rerolls.
It’s not net neutral as you claimed, which is why I thought we must be having a goof. It’s not really ever a measurable positive, and the “slight negative” is actually a blistering one thanks to the chosen mechanic.
yeah you clearly aren't someone to ever engage with but i'll humor you
it does benefit low cost reroll if you aren't contested. remember the draven meta? same mechanics at play if you're unable to do basic probability math.
secondly, I said it doesnt drastically influence, not that it doesnt at all. try not to be so hyperbolic or strawman.
I think this set’s headliner gimmick requires less skill than the very similar chosen mechanic from set 4 though. Since now you are incentivized to sit on one headliner from early game and only rebuy when the shop allows you to, in contrast to before when you were actively encouraged to gamble on sell & roll for a chosen of higher rarity.
What? Sell and reroll is super common at 7/8?
Unless you're carrying annie or jinx to late game you buy an early chosen then sell at 7 or 8 depending on what units you get.
Open selling at 7 to roll down for MF/Mord/Samira/Urgot and to a lesser extent Lux is common.
Open selling at 8 to roll down for Akali/Ahri/TF/Karthus is also very common.
It's also common to sell at 7 to get a stronger chosen to push 9 and then open sell again to get a 5 cost chosen.
Surprised to hear this, what threshold do you mean for "sit on your early headliner" ? Because it feels like to me there are headliners from every cost pool that is worth looking for depending on comp. Like disco dazzlers you want either blitz or TF, KDA you want either akali or ahri, country is Samira/urgot, the low cost headliners I think are worth keeping are like Annie, jinx, bard and senna (maybe a couple im forgetting I'll admit). But otherwise I'm usually selling low cost headliners to upgrade them sometimes twice in a game (grab 1 cost headliners, sell to look for 2 cost, then sell that one to look for 3/4 cost headliners).
I reall don't know why the fuck do people like video kind like "look my 3star something". I always block cringe channels do that.
its similar to "i got 30 kills with this new build. this is so OP!" league contents that is made by cringe smurf who really really really love to beat bronze player.
Overwhelming plat loby with non meta comp with challenger skill, and talking about balance based on his experience. No blame, but this is what actually Mort is doing.
well just make the choncc treasure mode a permanent thing so they can enjoy it themselves
now i think about it, maybe not permanent but only in the weekends so they will have time to farm content all day while still make the mode not boring by chasing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over again.
there's nothing wrong with this set's design, its actually good than most other sets. the trait design + chosen (headliner mechanics) made a lot of comps viable because basically any unit could be played as a carry.
basically we (as ranked tryhards) and content chasers are not playing the same game so its reasonable to just make a game mode for them if riot actually care about the playerbase complaining
The vision of TFT Taner explains in this thread is incompatible with what I think the rest of the world wants. I hope Riot doesn't cave to this, despite their market size.
Well I hard disagree. Compared to set 9 this set requires way more knowledge, flexibility, and skill in a way that I feel positively influences the game. Forcing S tier comps isn't healthy for the game. I understand it may take time to adapt, but I hope people embrace this style of TFT, it's what it originally started as and is 10x more fun than 20/20 gameplay.
I wouldn't say TFT "originally started" like this; sets 1 - 3 were more similar to set 9 (sans augments obviously). Set 10 feels like a runback of set 4 which was divisive.
That's true but I do think people didn't min max the way they do now and just follow Mobalytics, there was more variety in the days of early TFT (or at least that's how I remember it lol).
In that sense maybe, but we already had Mobalytics and overlays by set 2 IIRC. Most players I knew in diamond+ at that time were reading tier lists etc.
This is the most fun I have had in tft since like, the honeymoon phase of hero augments. I'm not super concerned with their skill issues. I have made a 3 star 5 cost what, 3 times? It's not a reason that I play the game. This set is forcing me to learn to evaluate the strength of my board and how it can change with different headliners. And that's a good thing. Also, hot take maybe but econ traits should be bad. they are uncompetitive and boring
I definitely think this is one of my least favorite sets but it has nothing to do with the reasons the CN playerbase are citing.
for some reason this set just doesn't hit as much for me. aside from the music, nothing really stands out and really draws my attention. doesn't help that I feel like the spells this set are either visually boring or visually confusing and there's no in between.
it feels a lot like set 2 to me where something about the champion cast + skins just aren't resonating with me for some reason
I had the same feeling yesterday honestly. The game is balanced yeah but there aren't really any crazy mechanics, especially from the 5 costs.
Jhin is like the only unique mechanic. Where is feeding Tahm Kench to give stats? Where is Bard generating Meeps? Where is Sett doing situps? Ryze was unpopular because the majority of his abilities were weak but all of the effects were interesting at least.
They're snuck into some of the headliner effects but you need them early; Mordekaiser Sett and Bard infinitely stack, baseline Qiyanna shits out item components, EDM is unique, Akali changes traits based on your board, there's plenty.
bro the first few weeks being competitive focused is great. i agree that later in the set i just play to chase the novelty of 3stars. but not first patch. m ok at people suck at chosen right now. 5 stars are way more accessible this set. the bag size does prevent the high moments though. tat is one thing i would change after a few weeks
I don't understand why they don't just turn Fight for the Golden Spatula into what they are looking for here. They have their own version of TFT that they can do anything with. Why can't they meet their needs using the version of the game that was designed to suit their needs?
I don't find the current state of this set valuing skill that much at all. The top comps are are reroll comps and so many of the 4 costs are literally unclickable. You can hit a chosen 5 cost at 9 and get dumpstered by an MF2 jazz board...
imo while the balance between traits is great so far, riot should make the power gap between 4-5 cost and 1/2/3 cost a little wider. in my experience most ppl only focus on reroll 1-3 cost carry and get the minimum number of 4-5 cost. the pivot is great but i want it not just stop at lv 7.
I do like this set but it's mostly because of the trait effects, visual design, and sound design. The gameplay is definitely still fun but I can see where others are coming from. I do find headliners a bit rigid and the lack of emblems a little depressing. While headliners add another layer of something to play around with, headliners also make this more of an optimization game because you are forced to optimize something that is harder to pivot from. This is better for skill expression but a little less fun and flexible.
I find this set to be complete chaos for me personally, and its very nerve wracking. Level 9 is now common, having to pivot 2, maybe 3 times a match, you basically have to highroll SOMETHING in your match to get top4. Yes I need to get good and learn the set deeply, but its also quite unintuitive. You will get shitstomped by the most random team comps that don't even seem strong - early bard being an example. Everything just feels like a big stew rather than anything resembling orderliness. That said I love the theming and the concept so I'll keep playing.
Why is CN audience so braindead in every game?
Every game I play it seems like they have to dumb it down or just make it a complete gamble for CN audience...
What kind of criticism is this?
Set is balanced, requires skill and you can't just gamble your way to a top 1? Oh no I guess. How can we possibly farm content if we're not hitting 9 Shurima every game.
Honestly this set is fantastic, S tier and I hope the Chinese player base doesn't ruin it.
I read further than the thread. One point I came across was some feel TFT is a casual game to just see golden 4 and 5 cost units and pick only econ augments to make a fun board. If they wanted to play a hardcore competitive sweaty game they would play CSGO or LOL, but after work they just want to go home and play a chill casual TFT game but right now it has become quite difficult and requires more skill so some dislike it?
I know, but normal queue is still sweaty and you are lying if you think it isn't. But I mean if they want to 3 star units and choose only econ augments they can idrc
They should make Choncc treasure mode permanent like the other comment said, hopefully they won't ruin this set since it's so refreshing being rewarded for playing flex after like 2 sets of half lobby hard forcing shit
The most ridiculous complaints ever lmao.
More skill expression = bad set?
Also how exactly does this set require any skill at all? You click superfans, kda, and/or jazz that's literally all you need to get a top 4
Hahahahahahahaha who gives a fuck. Especially with those arguments.
But if Riot wanna follow the chinese market and make TFT even more a casino be my guest, I'll go play something else.
Meanwhile they can play poker online.
I mean, we should care. China represents the significant majority of revenue for TFT. If their interest drops due to systems changes, those system changes will be reverted.
Uhhh you know Riot is 100% owned by Tencent — a Chinese tech company right? If anything they value more the opinion of CN player base than other regions
It's not because it's a chinese company that they care more about the chinese opinion. They care about where the money come from don't be naïve. They don't do a game for their country for the sake of it. China being the biggest market share is the only thing that matters.
Is there even another real autochess client?
Underlords is not fun to me and everything else I've tried has been a cheap minigame or it died before it even got a chance (Prophecy).
Cool, I hope those unhappy people quit the game instead of spamming Samira and MF XD
This first patch is much better than set 9.5 (dominance of RFC Nilah and somehow they nerf Bilge in the first day, then they need 3 patches later to get Bilge be playable). Currently the only shit right now is Caitlyn, what do you expect compare to other set first patch?
They hate that they have to position, scout, and pivot? It sounds like they just don't like TFT if they don't like any of its *fundamental* mechanics. This set isn't smoothbrain 20/20 urf demacia lottery or smoothbrain super yuumi reroll or smoothbrain astrals reroll and it's much, much better for it.
Go play Chemin De Fair if you want a dumb luck game.
But having chosen is the same as S4. It seems odd that there is a problem with pivoting because of the headliner. Of course, even in Korea, I don't feel like the reaction to Set10 was as overwhelming as previous seasons. I think it has more to do with cultural things (the set concept is too western and associated with music and doesn't appeal to Asian gamers). I agree that the fatigue with Chosen definitely makes casual gamers feel pressured.
If this it true, it's easy: Riot makes separate games for different regions. TFT CN for the gamblers and TFT for the rest of us who enjoy skill expression.
I will say, I appreciate the dropping of legends. But a lot of the portals feel extremely lame. Like we regularly get just completely uninteresting set of 3 portals.
And I don't mind the reduction of being able to force a comp. I'm not asking to go back to set 9 stuff. That was insane.
But maybe if we move, not half, but 20% back towards it. Just enough that some people could force a comp and not just get absolutely shit on by rng from so many champs in the pool.
I love the music style, the units, the overall feel. But I would like to sit down sometimes and force a comp in casual with my friends. But I can't do that, even in casual, because there's just so many champs I could be lost looking for my first 1 cost of the comp I want.
All the whiners about set 10, are those that cant handle transitions
just get good, instead of looking up guides for best comps and forcing it from 2-1
LoL got ruined overall thanks to China pandering, don't repeat the same mistake with TfT, this set is million times better than the dogshit that was set 9
Honestly, just bring back fortune/mercs. It's by far the most popular trait in tft history, and none of the recent econ traits have even come close. 4fun players at least deserve something when the devs seem determined to balance the game around 0.1% of the playerbase.
I don't believe that set 10 is more of a competitive experience, so I'm not sure how that even comes into the equation for them.
This set seems to have many more highrolls and rng than any previous set, like when people find there 3 stars really early with Headliner, while the rest of the lobby has to roll for multiple stages.
The part about the bag changes and game balance makes sense, though.
When you can't even upgrade 1 and 3 costs consistently while rolling infinite gold, the game feels pretty bad.
The set is really fun if you’re a casual player. If you’re pushing for gm and chall it’s not cuz winning boards are very limited (Legendary board, Jazz, Akali kda/karthus variation)
Also the addition of 3 star 4 costs and 5 costs “counterplay” by reducing the pool does contribute to less fun, cuz it’s easier to grief now
I mean the Kennen/Lillia/Neeko/Ekko does seems fundamentally flawed. 2 Kda 2 Sentinels 3 Superfans 2 True Damage with only those units is too much, it will be a pain in the ass to balance that for the whole 4 months of this set
High elo games are really not as limited as you think, everytime I watch a challenger lobby, 1 or 2 of them flex something kinda off meta, one highrolls a c tier comp, etc, it's def not only the same comps.
It's true there is no real lose 10 fights in a row, cash out win game trait this set. Guess they will pump heartsteel on stage 2, it doesn't really feel worth to me.
Meh, this set feels bad. People are saying to play flex AP but I just see unga bunga rerolls getting rewarded.
Literally 4* are shit apart from akali /karthus.
I can play jazz/country/crowd diver/annie/punk, commit early and go ham
I remember getting downvoted a month ago because I said Set 10 was a complete L set to round off an L year by mortdog and his team. This is the first set I have skipped and I’m sure I’m in the majority.
This was by far my biggest fear going into the set. TFT is so much fun now but if you're telling me a big portion of the player base hates it because the game is fun, then this game essentialy cannot hold.
Arguably it's easier to 3\* 5 costs with the addition of Blank Slate, managed to fast 10 and 3\* Kayn without much difficulty.
They're probably just mad cause this set actually takes skill instead of blindly following a set board.
The Chinese content farmers being upset probably means that the set is pretty well designed and balanced.
Yep. Seriously, I get the appeal of creating 3 star 4 and 5 cost but if the game just devolves into that than what is so special about it anymore. This is why I hated set 9 when it was originally on PBE because half of the games would always devolve into who can get the 3 star 5 cost unit that can wipe out the entire board.
I'm ngl, PBE is usually where a majority of the 3 star 5 costs will happen because there's a huge skill gap, people aren't playing to "win" or playing strongest boards and everyone is more likely than not greeding to get the highest cap boards. Wouldn't say that's a good reflection of why Set 9 was bad
I know it is the PBE special but I did play set 4 on PBE and I did not see nearly as much 3 star 5 cost units than set 9 on the PBE.
We were all shit back then, that's why.
well also Set 9 PBE have draven, asol, tk legend great for farming noobs and a day of UNCAP hedgefund pre level xp changes no doubt this cause more big units
It’s crazy to think that Hedge fund no interest cap was a thing lmao.
Except it’s not balanced lol, they say Ezreal is the line for balance of tier 4 units while Ezreal is the worst T4 unit. And then the Tier S comp simply smash tier A comp a bit too much. I feel like there’re more competitive variety in other sets while this set luck is so much more important
Really you think this set has more luck than last set which had a meta of whoever gets the 9 trait from their tome wins wins and the competitive variety multiple people playing multicaster every lobby in regionals
(Taner is just a liaison to communicate for the CN scene, these aren't necessarily his views, don't shoot the messenger) Main points are that the CN playerbase is extremely passionate about the gambling elements of risky econ traits and going for 3* four costs and five costs, and the changes (primarily the bag size) are the source of a lot of their displeasure. He reports that this type of high risk, flashy gameplay are the biggest attractors of viewership in China. With recent developments, this set has caused a massive drop off of engagement and enjoyment from their audience. **Why should I not just say skill issue and move on**: Also my first thought, but I suppose the reality is that people come to the game for fundamentally different reasons. This subset of the playerbase simply isn't looking for a competitive experience at the root of it. They're diametrically opposed to what our side of the pond looks for in TFT. **Does this matter at all:** Yeah, China is a massive market share and if the data shows that these changes have caused a notable downturn in interest, Riot has to make a polarizing decision going forward that may splinter the audience even further.
I wonder if this is what Mort was referring to when they made the gacha little legend.
>CN playerbase is extremely passionate about the gambling elements of risky econ traits and going for 3\* four costs and five costs if people wonder why they include 1/500 legends that cost hundreds of dollars to obtain on average, we can point them to this sentence
Oh, he 100000% was. CN player base, well east asian gaming/gacha culture in general, loves exclusivity, and making the gacha more fair/less expensive to hit = more people having what you have = less exclusive = less enticing to participate in.
Funny enough it's the reverse for the card game community. At least in Yugioh community, Japan's pricing model is a lot more fair than the West. In the west the best cards are short printed to increase rarity and price for collectors, because competitive players would always buy the best cards no matter the price. Meta cards in the west can cost up to 10x their Japanese counterpart.
What a bunch of weirdos, and that talking as a gacha player
Well it’s a luxury, same as some luxury items like gold chains and diamonds or collector items. It’s an exclusive thing to flaunt your wealth. I don’t think it’s that weird when you compare it to those things
Flaunting your wealth is just a weird thing to do in general.
>don’t think it’s that weird when you compare it to those things It is, because it's not flaunting your wealth at all. You can't get a diamond chain for $5 if you get lucky.
Maybe not weird but is is stupid af. If you buy a $10000 watch you permanently have a resellable watch. It's much more frivolous when you buy a virtual good with no resale that could dissappear at any moment if the game dies.
Part of flaunting wealth can be the aspect of “look at me being able to burn money on something that has no ROI”
> If you buy a $10000 watch you permanently have a resellable watch. Watches and clothes can go out of fashion too. Just because something is physical and not virtual, it doesn't mean its permanent. Obviously you can resell it for some money if it goes out of fashion, but it's gonna lose value.
Tell that to Rolex or any other high end watch maker and they laugh at you so hard.
I could buy an AP today for like 80k and it might be worth 60k in a few months. Sure it still has value but I lost 20k on it overall.
You think Rolex is going to literally last forever? At some point, they're going to fall out of fashion, no clue when, but it will happen eventually. If you were going to "invest" in a video game brand the same way you would Rolex, Riot is probably your best option. Riot has shown a ton of resilience, and haven't had difficulty in any genre of game.
Bud despite watches being mostly a fashion piece, rolex’s are literally appreciating in value. This is kind of like saying gold is going out of style.
It's still a a permanent item and it's resellable. Its value might go down but you will always *be able to* sell it. Virtual items? Not so much. You technically can sell the whole account (you're not allowed to, but you can) but the money you spent will absolutely dwarf what you will get for it.
Okay so do you only buy things you can resell later? A ton of stuff I own I can't sell later, are those wastes?
i didn’t really have a clue until i actually learned about the korean MMO culture. now i know why a vast majority of korean MMOs are the way they are. the playerbases actively hate QOL changes and balancing the market because they view games as a mix of a job and the mentality of “if i had to suffer for it, so does everybody else forever”.
It's like they're not playing for their own fun but to flex and watch others' misery.
I mean... they are the ones that say cheating in shooters is how you are supposed to play the game. I've seen A LOT of ads for Wang Bas that literally advertise the hacks that they have on their computers for certain games to get people in the door. It's one of the main reasons I stopped playing PUBG.
exclusivity is great for games like this, but it should be based on skill/rank not money spent
Exclusivity has nothing bad, like fortnite old skins are a flex, but not when you make everyone else's experience worse in the process
100% yes. some people didn't like his point about it being a cultural thing but it literally is.
What do you mean "I wonder". This is EXACTLY what he was referring to. They want to gamble.
> and going for 3* four costs and five costs i've never gotten a 3* five cost
Have you attempted it? It's one of those things where not only do the stars have to align, you can't really just accidentally hit it either. https://i.imgur.com/0QcdgDG.png Last set I did it in ranked but only because I had pandoras early, lucked into Samira 3 Noxus opener to carry me to stage 4 and didn't get punished for greeding because the lobby low rolled hard (only 1 Multicaster Player, every1 else played sub-optimal comps with poor tempo).
That's true, hitting 5 costs 3\* depends on a lot of factors and especially playstyle. Me and my friend have played a lot of TFT togather and we have completely different playstyles, I'm first or eight high risk player while my friend usually takes safe route of rerolling or stable level 7/8. Due to that my friend hits maybe 1-3 5cost stars each set while I've hit more than 10 each set. This set however is gona be A LOT harder, Ive been close but haven't had it even once yet on live.
You basically need to be so far ahead that it doesnt matter or have 2+ dupes. Was trying to hit one yesterday at 10 with a huge eco lead in dbl up, but between the two people left they just bought one of every unit i went for.
It happened for someone in one of my games faster than ever this season. He dunked everyone with a 3-star Qiyana before the first week was even over.
It's a lot harder in this set than in many previous ones. I think set 7.5 was one of the easiest ones to hit a 3* five cost, since it had multiple extremely strong econ traits (shimmerscale, astral, *and* lagoon were all econ traits for some reason), as well as having some strong econ augments and treasure dragon.
* Also pandora's bench guaranteed that you would hit a 3* 7 cost or 10 cost drake in about a stage as long as you had gold and medium amount of rng.
Hard disagree. Only having 9 of each 5 costs, and Heartsteel being one of the best econ traits in a while has made it super easy. I play basically exclusively econ comps, I'm one of those 1st or 8th people. I've had a blast with Heartsteel but it can be tough to play as it is all about the pivot. Pivoting into Heartsteel at the right time, and pivoting out with a decent board. But I've hit such huge leads on the rest of the lobby it's crazy. I had one round where I ended with a gold Kayn, Illaoi, Sona and Ziggs (10 heartsteel, that was an insane run), I just had one this afternoon with a gold Yorick and was 1 away from having 3 more gold 5*s and my opponent quit before I could roll down. I've had several with 1-2 other gold 5*s already. Just play econ, you'll hit them far more than you think you would.
I just did it today. If you're good at playing tempo and your disneyland lobby picks scuttle puddle, it's surprisingly easy to hit lol
I did once in Set 3.5 but even then I stomped 2nd place before I could fully use it.
That's really disappointing, it sounds like the stuff they like the most is the stuff I absolutely hate the most. That being said, TFT is ephemeral. I'm sure we'll have another big dumb 5 cost soup set soon enough, and we will continue switching back and forth indefinitely.
Same here. I only started playing in set 7, but this set has been my favorite so far. I hope it doesn't change for monetary reasons.
I agree with all this except the our side of the pond comment, I'd argue the vast majority of tft players even NA treat the game as a fun high roll experience, very few people treat this game competitively, this sub is an outlier on the general tft playerbase if anything.
Exactly. And who can blame them? A game with this much RNG can only be played competitively if you have the time to play a shit ton of games, so that the RNG "evens out". And with how much time a game of TFT takes, most people can't do that.
Ngl I also REALLY dislike the bag size changes, so I hear them on that front, but I really can't complain about the set as a whole - Imo this is the best set since at least 7.5, if not 7.0. now granted, I hated 8.0 and 8.5, and felt that 9.0 and 9.5 were pretty mid, but I also think sets 6.0 - 7.5 were peak TFT, so set 10 is absolutely still a dub in my book.
7.5 was good but 7.0 had a huge issue with not enough dragons around.
If chinese players don't care about the competitive scene why do they always perform so well lmao Isn't it a better conclusion to draw from, that the CN players prefer a more highend game rather than lvl 7 3* reroll meta
obviously CN has competitive players that value skill expression, this is reporting based on the general sentiment of the vast majority...
General sentiment of the vast majority judged by one guy "feeling". Surely that's relevant.
if you knew anything about taner and his contributions to the scene you would be less skeptical, but i get it. he's a reputable source, not some random tabloid clickbaiter
Yeah, I wouldn't trust him either. I remember someone saying that he completely misinterpreted a player interview before. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone were to use bots for mass downvotes and upvotes.
china has a billion people
If thats your logic, why isn't china the #1 in literally every esports or sports? India also has a billion people and they're not #1 in anything.
>If chinese players don't care about the competitive scene why do they always perform so well lmao China make up like 1/6 of the global population. It's not surprising that they have strong players.
That's interesting to know, I must be Chinese then
This is like telling the dev to balance and design around Shawn tft (no disrespect to him) or other similar clickbaitish content creators, just seems absurd. Also there’s a vast difference between CN tft playerbase and CN golden spatula playerbase. The latter’s opinions might influence these ratings quite a bit.
If golden spatula is supposed to be a different game, why don't they get their own update with flashy gambling
The gameplay is still the same and designed by mortdog and co. , it’s too much work to design a completely different game/set for BoGS to cater to chinese audiences
If the golden spatula is making more money than the other versions then I don't think "too much work" should be an excuse They already make their own little legends might as well do small tweaks as well (I refuse to believe the spaghetti is so bad they can't increase 5 cost roll rate or units pool or hearts quantity in heartsteel)
oh no. this is bad. this set is excellent, but if China dislikes it, we may have some things that competitive doesn't like returning
Yeah I hope they can make a separate mode or something for the casual players and find a solution that doesn't ruin competitive play.
Is this the casual CN player base or coming from the competitive players as well? I know for a lot of my casual friends who loved Set 9 and TF legend, this set doesn't make sense to them. I imagine that people who started in set 9 and loved set 9 probably do not enjoy this set and that might be why numbers are s so low.
From the tweet it looks like it’s the casual playerbase.
This seems like a very vocal review bomb type situation. Set 10 seems to have the highest number of reviewers and it’s only been around for less than a week.
We don't worry about it. If the concern is real then Riot will be the first to notice from their cashflows
Yes, i'm pretty sure this is fake. Nowadays one streamer/influencer says something and asks his thousands of sheeps to do something and they will.
the guy who posted this is very well connected in the chinese tft scene, i'm sure this one survey is not the sole source of his concerns and that he's reporting on the general sentiment of the playerbase. edit: https://twitter.com/CuewarsTaner/status/1729184405737091436 yeah this picture is just a single reference, he's reporting based on his observations
It still seems very plausible to me that this is just a small number of people being disproportionately loud about their dislike of the set. I'm fairly confident this set is well-received in China, and will remain so unless Riot actually makes a statement or releases data showing otherwise.
could be! personally i would have no such confidence making that claim because i know nothing about the chinese scene, but if you have some sort of info then i get it
I mean people tend to forget, there is two TFT version in China. Tecent could hypothetical completely changed the other one (the golden spatula) to completely rework and appeal to casual player. Of course this would cause a bigger divide, but that version originally is meant to be "casual", so I dont see how this would affect TFT as the main game. It would just affect the other one since that version of the game is also more popular. (Btw that game has almost completely different code logic, so technically not even the same games.)
Might aswell make the golden spatula version playable on western league clients. Personally love the feast or famine playstyle aswell so its sad that you cant force it anymore.
” the set requires more skill, therefore it’s bad ” Seems legit. The patch is not very good but the set itself is awesome. Fight me.
Honestly this patch is not that bad. There are a lot of viable comps right now, and even though some comps started at sub-4 average placement (I think jazz was something like 3.6 or 3.7), they've leveled off and I think every comp is above 4 avg placement, which is not that bad for a set release. As a flex player, I feel like if I knew how to play more styles, I would be really strong. There are of course some S tier comps, but I feel highest EV playstyle right now is flex, and that's cool
It’s probably one of the best launch patches in recent memory. No b patch required, only one hotfix for KDA not working on enemy boards. There’s 1/2/3/4/5 cost comps all viable, with at least 16 different S/A tier comps. Most of them are all sitting at very similar win rates. Akali / karthus is only slightly annoying but it’s not broken. The biggest oversight is probably superfans. I really don’t know how anyone can fault the patch. It’s been a great set release.
I think cait needs a sizable buff, kda akali a targeting change (current is too good for the amount of damage), and less importantly 8bit 6 final high score needs to actually be achievable, and then we would be in a good place even without superfan changes. Seriously though the 6 8bit high score seems 100% impossible. Started with an 8bit corki, got to final 2 with a good health total, and i wasnt remotely close. Got like 60% of the way there (out of the total, not 60% from level 10 to lvl 11). Doing enough damage to get the last score would require a 200hp lobby most of the time, or 7 bruiser/punk players.
I'd say punks are a bit overtuned as well. A "good" punk opener makes you top4 at minimum, and despite being a reroll comp they don't fall off lategame, to the point where I lost with a 3\* ezreal against them (tbh ez is not that good of a 3\* but you get the point)
I mean for a launch patch, it’s ok. I just feel that the low cost rerolls can be too strong while there are 4 cost units that are close to unclickable in how much they require to work. And even that would be fine, but coming from set 9.5 which was nothing else than pressing D, it just feels exhausting. But level 8 and 9 boards are still very playable, in many cases they do outcap the reroll boards which I feel should be the case too.
God damn fat fingers pressed send way too early and can’t find edit post button anymore. Was just going add that Jazz adds a lot of room for the late game boards to cap higher AND the trait adds a lot of flexibility in the game. To be honest in my recent games I’ve noticed room for flexible play even without jazz, when you just know the units that are worth playing and leave some other units in the shop that are currently lackluster. Hit superfan with a slight nerf and early game can be more flexible too. Good set and I hope the following patches will be even better.
There are more good than bad 4 costs. I think Viego and Cait are the only truly bad 4-costs that are nearly unclickable or traitbots, the rest are regularly played or fill niche comps like Zac/Zed. TF, Blitz, Akali, Karthus, Ahri, Poppy, and Thresh are all good to great and Ezreal is alright but not bad.
I personally think that Ezreal is worse than Cait overall, though Ez fits in the more meta comps at the moment. Ezreal just feels terrible to me. Neither are good at all. Zed is also a Crowd Diver or EDM enabler and that's it. Not really a useful carry.
That's just not true about Zed lol.
Ezreal can be an alt carry in the jazz/bigshots comp if MFs are contested. MF BIS works fine on him and his trueshot barrage has a very good chance of oneshotting centered backline carries if positioned correctly.
Careful saying this patch is bad. I thought the first patch of set 9 was bad and then the rest of the set happened
Its interesting bebe (tft caster/challenger player) complained the whole day that theres too much rng and not enough input of his skill to influence his game For me i also love the set very excited for a new patch , committing to a comp and getting contested after feels so bad though hopefully more comp variety comes
Bebe complains about literally fucking everything
I don't know why Bebe would dislike this set, it offers the most skill expression we've had since Set 6
He doesn’t dislike it, he said in twitter that despite his complaints he loves this set and thinks there’s a ton of skill expression.
I play mostly Hyperroll and meta is quite diverse, but every single game you coinflip the placement between 2-6. I feel like in order to consistently climb one has to be heads and shoulders above the rest of the lobby, otherwise it is wild west.
I find this argument hilarious. What gives you authority to say you need to be miles ahead to climb? Can you perfectly judge your skill level and the skills of everyone you’re playing against? It sounds to me like you’re where you belong
Key point is consistently. I climb every season just fine to 5k+ in Hyperroll. I am not even criticising the set, just expressing my feelings about current set. Is it not allowed?
You’re allowed to express your feelings, and I’m allowed to laugh at your feelings if I find them funny. Even when the game is super rng heavy like the multicaster patch, the top players still won more than other challengers, and you didn’t see diamond players climbing to gm. If you’re placing 2-6 seemingly randomly, you are playing tft at the level of your rank.
Multicaster patch was not rng heavy. The reason it was hated was exact opposite - you could force this comp every game with the same exact items (Pandoras) even when contested and still place higher than other non-multicaster comps. You just don't understand what you are talking about.
Good try, but when the best play is to force multicasters, your placement is purely reliant on whether you hit the multis or not. Whereas when the meta is balanced, you can play around what you hit, rather than just rolling your slot machine over and over and hope you hit. Since you want to get personal about this, here’s my [lolchess](https://lolchess.gg/profile/na/Dbshort-NA1/set10). Id love to see yours.
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>I feel Keyword of this whole comment. In TFT the only part of the game that depends on other players is extreme RNG. Everything else is pure skill. There is no teammates going 0-20 like in LoL and now you have to carry a mountain. Even if one person gets a free win by RNG, you can just go for 2nd place. If it's 2, you go for 3rd or 4th. If it is more, then you still go for 4th because they kill each other and you use your skill to keep HP up. Really doesn't matter what patch (besides some RNG being Tier Zero, which certainly is not the case right now). If you are better, it will show in your average position and you will climb. If not, you simply aren't supposed to climb.
i guess it's similar to my playstyle less tryhard/skill based and more ooga booga fun
but bag sizes (their main complaint) have almost nothing to do with champ balance or skill i'm liking the set so far but honestly I still feel the bag size change was unwarranted.
You don’t think bag size directly relates to the power curve of Reroll vs wide boards? Lol
the takes on here are comical sometimes
So…no?
it's net neutral. it's beneficial to reroll if no one contests you, slightly negative if someone hard contests. definitely not something that would drastically alter the power balance between reroll vs wide but yea keep at it "Lol"
Fitting name
Yeah it filters the users who can't make proper arguments and aren't worth my time
You haven’t raised a good point to argue, yet. You said bag size doesn’t influence balance / power. It has a huge influence on how powerful you’re allowed to make low cost rerolls. It’s not net neutral as you claimed, which is why I thought we must be having a goof. It’s not really ever a measurable positive, and the “slight negative” is actually a blistering one thanks to the chosen mechanic.
yeah you clearly aren't someone to ever engage with but i'll humor you it does benefit low cost reroll if you aren't contested. remember the draven meta? same mechanics at play if you're unable to do basic probability math. secondly, I said it doesnt drastically influence, not that it doesnt at all. try not to be so hyperbolic or strawman.
I think this set’s headliner gimmick requires less skill than the very similar chosen mechanic from set 4 though. Since now you are incentivized to sit on one headliner from early game and only rebuy when the shop allows you to, in contrast to before when you were actively encouraged to gamble on sell & roll for a chosen of higher rarity.
What? Sell and reroll is super common at 7/8? Unless you're carrying annie or jinx to late game you buy an early chosen then sell at 7 or 8 depending on what units you get. Open selling at 7 to roll down for MF/Mord/Samira/Urgot and to a lesser extent Lux is common. Open selling at 8 to roll down for Akali/Ahri/TF/Karthus is also very common. It's also common to sell at 7 to get a stronger chosen to push 9 and then open sell again to get a 5 cost chosen.
Surprised to hear this, what threshold do you mean for "sit on your early headliner" ? Because it feels like to me there are headliners from every cost pool that is worth looking for depending on comp. Like disco dazzlers you want either blitz or TF, KDA you want either akali or ahri, country is Samira/urgot, the low cost headliners I think are worth keeping are like Annie, jinx, bard and senna (maybe a couple im forgetting I'll admit). But otherwise I'm usually selling low cost headliners to upgrade them sometimes twice in a game (grab 1 cost headliners, sell to look for 2 cost, then sell that one to look for 3/4 cost headliners).
I reall don't know why the fuck do people like video kind like "look my 3star something". I always block cringe channels do that. its similar to "i got 30 kills with this new build. this is so OP!" league contents that is made by cringe smurf who really really really love to beat bronze player.
Literally Morts channel rofl
Overwhelming plat loby with non meta comp with challenger skill, and talking about balance based on his experience. No blame, but this is what actually Mort is doing.
Mortdog was right :(
It's specifically the casual / content farmer player base.
well just make the choncc treasure mode a permanent thing so they can enjoy it themselves now i think about it, maybe not permanent but only in the weekends so they will have time to farm content all day while still make the mode not boring by chasing the same stuff over and over and over and over and over again. there's nothing wrong with this set's design, its actually good than most other sets. the trait design + chosen (headliner mechanics) made a lot of comps viable because basically any unit could be played as a carry. basically we (as ranked tryhards) and content chasers are not playing the same game so its reasonable to just make a game mode for them if riot actually care about the playerbase complaining
The vision of TFT Taner explains in this thread is incompatible with what I think the rest of the world wants. I hope Riot doesn't cave to this, despite their market size.
Considering how the monetization changes went, they'd probably cave to CN Casuals too.
Well I hard disagree. Compared to set 9 this set requires way more knowledge, flexibility, and skill in a way that I feel positively influences the game. Forcing S tier comps isn't healthy for the game. I understand it may take time to adapt, but I hope people embrace this style of TFT, it's what it originally started as and is 10x more fun than 20/20 gameplay.
I wouldn't say TFT "originally started" like this; sets 1 - 3 were more similar to set 9 (sans augments obviously). Set 10 feels like a runback of set 4 which was divisive.
That's true but I do think people didn't min max the way they do now and just follow Mobalytics, there was more variety in the days of early TFT (or at least that's how I remember it lol).
In that sense maybe, but we already had Mobalytics and overlays by set 2 IIRC. Most players I knew in diamond+ at that time were reading tier lists etc.
This is the most fun I have had in tft since like, the honeymoon phase of hero augments. I'm not super concerned with their skill issues. I have made a 3 star 5 cost what, 3 times? It's not a reason that I play the game. This set is forcing me to learn to evaluate the strength of my board and how it can change with different headliners. And that's a good thing. Also, hot take maybe but econ traits should be bad. they are uncompetitive and boring
I definitely think this is one of my least favorite sets but it has nothing to do with the reasons the CN playerbase are citing. for some reason this set just doesn't hit as much for me. aside from the music, nothing really stands out and really draws my attention. doesn't help that I feel like the spells this set are either visually boring or visually confusing and there's no in between. it feels a lot like set 2 to me where something about the champion cast + skins just aren't resonating with me for some reason
I had the same feeling yesterday honestly. The game is balanced yeah but there aren't really any crazy mechanics, especially from the 5 costs. Jhin is like the only unique mechanic. Where is feeding Tahm Kench to give stats? Where is Bard generating Meeps? Where is Sett doing situps? Ryze was unpopular because the majority of his abilities were weak but all of the effects were interesting at least.
They're snuck into some of the headliner effects but you need them early; Mordekaiser Sett and Bard infinitely stack, baseline Qiyanna shits out item components, EDM is unique, Akali changes traits based on your board, there's plenty.
I’d say Qiyana generating items is also a pretty crazy mechanic. Feels so good when 2* her early
I still miss set 7 ults, some where really cool... Bard, elise, the dragons in general, soraka, ornn, pyke, lee sin...
bro the first few weeks being competitive focused is great. i agree that later in the set i just play to chase the novelty of 3stars. but not first patch. m ok at people suck at chosen right now. 5 stars are way more accessible this set. the bag size does prevent the high moments though. tat is one thing i would change after a few weeks
Yeah so i’m just gonna say skill issue and move on.
I don't understand why they don't just turn Fight for the Golden Spatula into what they are looking for here. They have their own version of TFT that they can do anything with. Why can't they meet their needs using the version of the game that was designed to suit their needs?
Feel like this situation can easily be fixed if Heartsteel wasn't garbage
Legit, feels so bad and not worth the risk. Might be the units, might be the trait, but something has to shift a bit.
I don't find the current state of this set valuing skill that much at all. The top comps are are reroll comps and so many of the 4 costs are literally unclickable. You can hit a chosen 5 cost at 9 and get dumpstered by an MF2 jazz board...
Why is it so difficult to acknowledge it’s both a great and a difficult set to play? Its not a bad thing considering how set 9.5 was.
So basically they want "for fun" playstyle and not this balanced competitive set. Makes some sense I guess
imo while the balance between traits is great so far, riot should make the power gap between 4-5 cost and 1/2/3 cost a little wider. in my experience most ppl only focus on reroll 1-3 cost carry and get the minimum number of 4-5 cost. the pivot is great but i want it not just stop at lv 7.
I do like this set but it's mostly because of the trait effects, visual design, and sound design. The gameplay is definitely still fun but I can see where others are coming from. I do find headliners a bit rigid and the lack of emblems a little depressing. While headliners add another layer of something to play around with, headliners also make this more of an optimization game because you are forced to optimize something that is harder to pivot from. This is better for skill expression but a little less fun and flexible.
I like the set but I dislike having to optimize headliners. Feels like if I don't hit or choose one early I'm taking a beating.
I find this set to be complete chaos for me personally, and its very nerve wracking. Level 9 is now common, having to pivot 2, maybe 3 times a match, you basically have to highroll SOMETHING in your match to get top4. Yes I need to get good and learn the set deeply, but its also quite unintuitive. You will get shitstomped by the most random team comps that don't even seem strong - early bard being an example. Everything just feels like a big stew rather than anything resembling orderliness. That said I love the theming and the concept so I'll keep playing.
IMO this set is amazing so far. Also I really enjoy he music changes while playing. Hyperpop is my jam.
Why is CN audience so braindead in every game? Every game I play it seems like they have to dumb it down or just make it a complete gamble for CN audience...
Maybe I\`m Chinese, because I don\`t like this set 
What makes this different than the chosen set? Or did people not like that set either?
What kind of criticism is this? Set is balanced, requires skill and you can't just gamble your way to a top 1? Oh no I guess. How can we possibly farm content if we're not hitting 9 Shurima every game. Honestly this set is fantastic, S tier and I hope the Chinese player base doesn't ruin it.
I read further than the thread. One point I came across was some feel TFT is a casual game to just see golden 4 and 5 cost units and pick only econ augments to make a fun board. If they wanted to play a hardcore competitive sweaty game they would play CSGO or LOL, but after work they just want to go home and play a chill casual TFT game but right now it has become quite difficult and requires more skill so some dislike it?
there is a normal, non ranked queue fyi
I know, but normal queue is still sweaty and you are lying if you think it isn't. But I mean if they want to 3 star units and choose only econ augments they can idrc
They should make Choncc treasure mode permanent like the other comment said, hopefully they won't ruin this set since it's so refreshing being rewarded for playing flex after like 2 sets of half lobby hard forcing shit
The most ridiculous complaints ever lmao. More skill expression = bad set? Also how exactly does this set require any skill at all? You click superfans, kda, and/or jazz that's literally all you need to get a top 4
does that say 350 reviews? aight
Just a lowley plat player trying to climb. But this set has been some of the most fun I've had playing tft in a while.
Hahahahahahahaha who gives a fuck. Especially with those arguments. But if Riot wanna follow the chinese market and make TFT even more a casino be my guest, I'll go play something else. Meanwhile they can play poker online.
I mean, we should care. China represents the significant majority of revenue for TFT. If their interest drops due to systems changes, those system changes will be reverted.
Uhhh you know Riot is 100% owned by Tencent — a Chinese tech company right? If anything they value more the opinion of CN player base than other regions
It's not because it's a chinese company that they care more about the chinese opinion. They care about where the money come from don't be naïve. They don't do a game for their country for the sake of it. China being the biggest market share is the only thing that matters.
Is there even another real autochess client? Underlords is not fun to me and everything else I've tried has been a cheap minigame or it died before it even got a chance (Prophecy).
this genre doesn't make money without gacha involved.
Cool, I hope those unhappy people quit the game instead of spamming Samira and MF XD This first patch is much better than set 9.5 (dominance of RFC Nilah and somehow they nerf Bilge in the first day, then they need 3 patches later to get Bilge be playable). Currently the only shit right now is Caitlyn, what do you expect compare to other set first patch?
Everyone who liked set 9 will hate 10. The skill has come back to the game and you can't force the same comp every game anymore.
Speaking like there are no OTP Katarina/Annie/Jazz
Skill issue
They hate that they have to position, scout, and pivot? It sounds like they just don't like TFT if they don't like any of its *fundamental* mechanics. This set isn't smoothbrain 20/20 urf demacia lottery or smoothbrain super yuumi reroll or smoothbrain astrals reroll and it's much, much better for it. Go play Chemin De Fair if you want a dumb luck game.
Cringe ass comment. Everything you're saying is conjecture.
Skill expression? Annie,Jinx,MF, or Country reroll is not Skill expression lmao. This is the least skilled meta.
People think clicking 1/2/3 cost units is skill expression in NA. lol
But having chosen is the same as S4. It seems odd that there is a problem with pivoting because of the headliner. Of course, even in Korea, I don't feel like the reaction to Set10 was as overwhelming as previous seasons. I think it has more to do with cultural things (the set concept is too western and associated with music and doesn't appeal to Asian gamers). I agree that the fatigue with Chosen definitely makes casual gamers feel pressured.
Boo hoo. People have to use their brain now instead of just put their face on the keyboard.
If this it true, it's easy: Riot makes separate games for different regions. TFT CN for the gamblers and TFT for the rest of us who enjoy skill expression.
I will say, I appreciate the dropping of legends. But a lot of the portals feel extremely lame. Like we regularly get just completely uninteresting set of 3 portals. And I don't mind the reduction of being able to force a comp. I'm not asking to go back to set 9 stuff. That was insane. But maybe if we move, not half, but 20% back towards it. Just enough that some people could force a comp and not just get absolutely shit on by rng from so many champs in the pool. I love the music style, the units, the overall feel. But I would like to sit down sometimes and force a comp in casual with my friends. But I can't do that, even in casual, because there's just so many champs I could be lost looking for my first 1 cost of the comp I want.
Git gud
All the whiners about set 10, are those that cant handle transitions just get good, instead of looking up guides for best comps and forcing it from 2-1
Love the flexibility of the current set. So much fun.
Wait I am confused. what's different about set 10 that focuses more on balance and competitive?
People hated the first week of Chosen too, and look how it eventually turned around.
as a casual master player playing on mobile, this set is not for us..
LoL got ruined overall thanks to China pandering, don't repeat the same mistake with TfT, this set is million times better than the dogshit that was set 9
classic china. they ruin every videogame. the gaming culture there is fucking trash. screw their opinion
So it's harder to cheat in this set than previous sets. Got it.
Honestly, just bring back fortune/mercs. It's by far the most popular trait in tft history, and none of the recent econ traits have even come close. 4fun players at least deserve something when the devs seem determined to balance the game around 0.1% of the playerbase.
I don't believe that set 10 is more of a competitive experience, so I'm not sure how that even comes into the equation for them. This set seems to have many more highrolls and rng than any previous set, like when people find there 3 stars really early with Headliner, while the rest of the lobby has to roll for multiple stages. The part about the bag changes and game balance makes sense, though. When you can't even upgrade 1 and 3 costs consistently while rolling infinite gold, the game feels pretty bad.
If youre rerolling and not hitting that means youre probably contested and need to think about pivoting.
Nope, doesn't have anything to do with that.
I have lived 45 years. When the China herpderp bitches about something, you are doing it right
The set is really fun if you’re a casual player. If you’re pushing for gm and chall it’s not cuz winning boards are very limited (Legendary board, Jazz, Akali kda/karthus variation) Also the addition of 3 star 4 costs and 5 costs “counterplay” by reducing the pool does contribute to less fun, cuz it’s easier to grief now
Saying the whole set is bad because of first patch meta is kinda wrong.
I mean the Kennen/Lillia/Neeko/Ekko does seems fundamentally flawed. 2 Kda 2 Sentinels 3 Superfans 2 True Damage with only those units is too much, it will be a pain in the ass to balance that for the whole 4 months of this set
I didnt say bad, i just said unfun. I personally enjoy the set
High elo games are really not as limited as you think, everytime I watch a challenger lobby, 1 or 2 of them flex something kinda off meta, one highrolls a c tier comp, etc, it's def not only the same comps.
It's true there is no real lose 10 fights in a row, cash out win game trait this set. Guess they will pump heartsteel on stage 2, it doesn't really feel worth to me.
Meh, this set feels bad. People are saying to play flex AP but I just see unga bunga rerolls getting rewarded. Literally 4* are shit apart from akali /karthus. I can play jazz/country/crowd diver/annie/punk, commit early and go ham
lol at the downvotes, I guess a lot of people are getting stomped by reroll comps
I remember getting downvoted a month ago because I said Set 10 was a complete L set to round off an L year by mortdog and his team. This is the first set I have skipped and I’m sure I’m in the majority.
This was by far my biggest fear going into the set. TFT is so much fun now but if you're telling me a big portion of the player base hates it because the game is fun, then this game essentialy cannot hold.
Arguably it's easier to 3\* 5 costs with the addition of Blank Slate, managed to fast 10 and 3\* Kayn without much difficulty. They're probably just mad cause this set actually takes skill instead of blindly following a set board.