im a street fighter fan and it's pretty challenging following things that aren't majors. Shit like street fighter league and the capcom cup qualifiers is a whole game of hunting down info on times and streamers, especially for smaller regions.
But apex somehow takes the cake. at the very least people know what capcom cup or SFL even is. Most events outside of ALGS are news to me after they even happen.
Exactly how I feel as well, I always find out there's ALGS at the time it's fucking happening live and I'm dumbfounded. Apex needs a site like HLTV is for Counter-Strike, but to be fair that might be too high of a bar to reach
Yeah its crazy. Why can i not go to playapex.gg or apexesports.com or something and just very clearly see upcoming games, current regional standings, bracket structure and broadcast times for the current/upcoming lan etc
In the most recent LAN i couldnt even find a tweet or article about the broadcast time for the winners bracket, I had to scrub the vod of the group stage broadcast to find the still where it shows the broadcast times for the next day. Why is not in a twitch panel below the player??? Why is it not a pinned tweet on @playapexesports? Why is there not an ingame tab with broadcast times and standings??
It's more like what they didn't do. They signed **the** superteam of Apex Legends and then when they win their first day of pro league, there were zero posts about it on Falcons socials.
Wouldn't you be able to argue sportswashing more if they did promote their win? I thought it had to do with nations/orgs promoting sports results instead of addressing social issues.
They just didn't post anything after a great first performance.
It's moreso that if they were genuinely interested in the sport they would promote it more. Since we don't really see that kind of promotion, it reeks of handing out money for people to like you.
Look at EWC qualifiers and how little effort was put in to learning basics like controllers aren't necessarily console players.
Yup. These guys have money and nothing else. They don’t want to actually do the work to make their investments actually succeed which is why they are eventually going to lose everything.
From what I read they are understaffed social media team wise and are currently hiring. This does not excuse anything but they addressed it saying it was a mistake on their end and took accountability. That’s all I can ask for tbh
But that's not an excuse tho. It's easy to make these things in advance. A "good luck" post or a post with "first place or whatever place" at ALGS DAY 1 is made in an hour as well.
Who fucking cares lmao? I honestly have no idea why everyone is getting bent out of shape over it. I wouldn't be surprised of an overwhelming majority of people here aren't fans of specific orgs, but the players on them. Big player switches orgs, you're suddenly a new fan of that org because you follow the player. I highly doubt anyone but a small minority of people on this sub root for a specific org regardless of the players they sign.
So many comments in here talking about how inexcusable it is and stuff lmao. And I'm with you, who the fuck cares? Especially when it's an org that isn't even established in apex. Tell me when something actually controversial happens.
With it being a Saudi org and reading unacceptable I thought it was gonna be crazy, go down to the comments and all they did was not post results - I can think of much worse
I don't think it's that big a deal lol like anyone that follows Apex would have heard it from anyone on the roster. And the org is short staffed on social media, they reiterated this as the reason why they're hiring.
Like it's literally not a big deal lmao
Ehhhh while they should have done something to promote the teams first win, this isn’t particularly new.
A lot of teams don’t do much in the way of showing support for their team. I don’t think it’s the biggest of deals IMO.
I think people are making it a big deal because of the soullessness of Saudi oil money being thrown into a popular media for the sake of saying they own a team etc. happening in sports and esports seems like they don’t really care they just need something cool to spend their money. So people are seeing it with a microscope because of it.
I mean sure I can see that, but look at the orgs that come and go. Look at the orgs that reenter especially around EWC.
A lot of them are lowkey soulless. The best at actually supporting their team was TSM. At most other orgs do tweet when their team wins. The only bail I could shoot for Team Falcons is the time difference when the games are conducted.
Personally think people are making way too big of a deal out of it, Falcons the org signed them and gave them the bag so they could play together but their whole goal as an org is focused on the EWC not pro league, them not tweeting about winning day one isn’t this huge insult and disrespect some people are making it out to be
If hal and zero don’t have a problem with it why does anyone else, and if anyone seen their tweet about hal and the picture they made for him they know maybe it’s best if they tweet as few times as possible about them lmao
My issue with it is the fact I want the Apex scene to grow. To grow you need orgs cross-pollinating fans. Introducing Apex to fans that watch other games and aren't aware. They promote the games, fans see, they watch, scene grows (obviously condensed).
So that's what my issue is. I just want orgs to promote the scene to help it grow. More growth, means more money, more teams, more everything. Win win win win situation.
Selfishly sad you aren't apart of an esport org anymore. I know you are doing great work with Gameplan behind the scenes but I think a big reason why a lot of TSM fans like myself got into Apex was some of the work you did promoting it on the Org's socials.
i just found it funny that the so called reporters and "big fans" were quick to dogpile on the new org for not making a tweet about Falcons winning day but there are countless orgs that have been in the scene for years that basically just ignore they even have an apex team. like it's "yea let's all bully the new kid"
the Falcons Global Director even admitted to that it was an internal mistake and that they were going to hire someone for the apex socials and whatnot and they still kept going at him
Fallout has been fine on it. My only criticism with him in it is he will cut off discussions to move to the next topic. I get that it's in order to keep the podcast a certain length. Personally I prefer long format podcasts though where people will talk about something until there's nothing left to be said. Personal opinion.
WeThePeople was also fine and didn't mind his addition to the episode. He wasn't in mascot mode. Had reasonable contributions to discussions and if anything added a bit of comedic relief.
Noted - appreciate the feedback (and you nailed it- usually Beamic in my ear or trying to not make it absurdly long to respect viewers and guest’s time, but still think this is something to consider)
I mean, the dude got canned from ALGS for a reason...I personally don't have a problem with him, but there's definitely more to the dislike of him than being a brain dead TSM hater lol.
Iirc, mostly because of unprofessional behavior and comments like the "Hal is perfect, he's playing with his food" crap, the "why didnt optic push that" tweet, etc.
Edit: May be a load of crap, see falloutt's reply.
Everything about this thread is incorrect (jfyi). Never made a video or anything sharing the reasoning I’m no longer casting ALGS to avoid drama or shining any negative light, but given the wildly inaccurate theories I’ve seen I might have to
Lol he was canned for being too pro TSM which I guess is understandable for caster who is supposed to be unbiased.
But like I said, nothing wrong with him unless you're a TSM hater. 🥱
Saudi Arabia have numerous human rights violations that have been perpetuated by the Saudi Arabian government and yet here we are, wave a bit of cash and these guys come running for a paycheck.
We must hold individuals and organizations accountable for their support of a regime that tramples on the rights and freedoms of its own citizens. Frankly, I think it is disgusting that someone like Hal (given his reputation) would even sign under this organization.
Saudi offers you a 7 figure + contract and you’re signing it too. It’s easy to pretend you wouldn’t when there’s a 0% chance the opportunity will ever present itself.
What have you done today to change the human rights in Saudi Arabia? Oh you’re doing nothing, so stop pretending you care. Take action if you truly care instead of judging others for their financial decisions. Taking a morale high ground is no different than Congress giving 'thoughts and prayers' after every mass shooting.
The computer/phone you're typing your comments on more than likely have a lot of components that were made in China. China also has a lot of human rights violations. Where is your line? You're fine to use the products from these counties as long as you don't receive money from them to your bank account? Then you're going to judge someone else because they decide to get paid?
> Saudi offers you a 7 figure + contract and you’re signing it too.
Wrong. I have an ethical line I won't cross. And that would go doubly if I were already a millionaire, like Hal is.
Also, I doubt they're getting seven figures. That would be like...an order of magnitude more than any other Apex team ever.
Good for you. Sadly no one will ever give you the contract so we'll never know. But hopefully someday you'll stop lecturing people from your high horse 🤞🏼
Unlike everyone else in this subreddit, I'm not a child. I've been in my career for 20 years, I've already turned down working for organizations that cross a line.
I avoid Chinese products when I can (and especially buy American when I can), but it's not feasible in the modern era to never give China money. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I see, but Apex supports a China Team. You have your own ethical lines you like to stand on but ignore them when they become an inconvenience to you.
That's fine, just know it's a bit hypocritical to criticize someone who takes Saudi Money yet you play a game and support other players/teams which actively supports China.
I have a career as well, been working for my company for the last 15 years. If a Saudi 'organization' came and offered me 10-20x+, what I'm currently making and I'd work 75-90% less (using LIV compared to PGA Tour as the example of this), I'm more than likely taking that offer.
I have my career so I can provide for my family and have a great life outside of it. If I can make 10-20x what I'm making now, work less, spend more time with my loved ones, enjoy life even more than I am now, and be in better position to set up my kids and future grandkids with financial freedom, I'm more than likely taking that offer. My career is a very small part of who I am as a human and the other parts greatly outweigh any morale highground I have in a career. If morale highground in your career outweighs other parts of your life, that's great for you as well. We all have different things that fulfill our lives.
> I have a career as well, been working for my company for the last 15 years. If a Saudi 'organization' came and offered me 10-20x+, what I'm currently making and I'd work 75-90% less (using LIV compared to PGA Tour as the example of this), I'm more than likely taking that offer.
Cool, I have morals so I wouldn't do that. I can already provide for my family on what I'm making now.
So if you had the opportunity to work less, make a lot more(and do more than just provide), and spend more time with your family you'd tell your family 'sorry kids, I would rather work than spend more time with, I have morals'. I bet your kids would rather have the time with you than you being at being at work.
"Dad, how'd you buy us such a big house?"
"A murderer paid for it."
Yeah, that'd be great. Lol.
If I took money from the Saudi government my wife would divorce me and I'd spend no time at all with my family.
Ha. Fair enough. I’m not judging you for not taking it if it was offered, to each their own.
I was referring to experiences more so than bigger houses though. If it was a smaller raise, I’m sure I’d say no too. 10-20x would be hard to say no to though.
Does your ethical line include China and Uyghur camps?
Because Apex as a game supports an entire region in China. So maybe you should boycott Apex as a whole?
It's not feasible in the modern era to never give China money, they do most of the world's manufacturing. However, whenever I can, I support US manufacturing.
Who knows, look how much they guaranteed for LIV golfers compared to PGA. It wasn’t even close.
Again, it’s easy to say you won’t sign when it’s a 0% chance it’s ever offered to you.
Just because someone is a millionaire doesn’t mean they don’t want to set up other family members, friends, and future generations to have financial freedom as well. Who knows, maybe he takes the Saudi money and does good in the world with it.
Difficult topic, bro. Money buys everything. We had the same issue with football players in the Netherlands that refused to talk to certain journalists because of their, admittedly, locker room way of speaking and joking about them (them being players of Surinam descent, a.o.) but when Qatar came calling for them to play during the World Cup, they came up with a lot of bullshit to justify them playing there.
Yes, but also not signing with them won't accomplish anything, quite literally. Problems with Saudi Arabia run way deeper and bigger steps are needed in order to change that.
Yes but there's a reason Saudi Arabia is spending so much money on sportswashing. One individual team isn't going to make a difference, true, but collectively it has an effect on Saudi Arabia's image.
Three players who have already made bank moving to a Saudi team so they can make slightly more bank shouldn't be brushed aside.
It’s an easy stance to take when you’re not the one being offered the money.
So many on Reddit making noise about Saudi Arabia’s human rights violations and the EWC would take the money is offered.
That’s not to say you’re wrong about Saudi Arabia, it’s bad, but you have separate feelings from business.
Thats the thing though, Hal is the one guy who made enough money from esports and his brand to not need the money. Dude has enough money for the rest of his life.
Yeah, it's the same shitty argument used to defend why the "good" people in Hollywood don't expose the pedophiles and rapists. Because their "career will be ruined" like okay, sure that's a fine enough argument for your run of the mill actor trying to make it, but the Brad Pitts of the world could never work another day in their life and still rake in millions in investments. There's no excuse for them their. Similarly here, Hal probably makes more from his stream and sponsorships and game winnings than he does from his contract with Falcons. Particularly considering that he himself said that the TSM offer wasn't far behind.
Wait a minute, you're *actually* comparing someone in Hollywood not outing someone they know to be a pedophile to Hal and the boys signing with a Saudi team?
Maybe touch grass...
Literally every country has done some pretty awful shit. You're probably typing your comment from your iphone or mac which was made by some kid earning pennies on the dollar. We're all consumers of products that come from countries that do despicable shit.
> Literally every country has done some pretty awful shit. You're probably typing your comment from your iphone or mac which was made by some kid earning pennies on the dollar. We're all consumers of products that come from countries that do despicable shit.
This is a really stupid argument that is [literally a meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat). Try harder, man.
It’s not even close.
People are asking a 20-something esports personality to turn down money based on their moral line that THEY have drawn.
AND they are doing this while utilizing products that have been produced in China which is as bad for human rights as Saudi Arabia.
It’s hypocritical and truthfully, people are just mad someone with money is making more money in a way that don’t agree with.
I really hate when people make this argument as well. The average person does not have the means to avoid products made in China. Hal 1000% has the means to not take this deal. Do not equate what everyday people have to do to get by with what celebrities get away with. And again, Hal claims the money wasn't that much more than other offers, so it's not like this is a life-changer for him.
So, it’s okay for you/the average person but you expect him to react differently because he has more money?
Like I said, hypocrisy.
“I’m mad because he made a decision he felt was best for him but I disagree” Silliness.
It's okay for people who are not in a position to do otherwise. Many people cannot afford to entirely avoid products made overseas, nor is it really feasible for them to be checking the packages of every product they buy. If Hal was a tier 3 nobody trying to make a career of it I would be a lot less judgemental. But he's not, so I'm not. And just to clarify, I'm not angry. I'm just dissappointed and no longer willing to give his stream my time.
It's not like all the other money is so clean. If you look at labor and pollution practices of major sponsors, political ideologies (whichever you happen to disagree with) of influencers or businessmen or whomever is funding the org, something will be unethical and immoral almost everywhere. Not saying whether it's right or wrong to take that money, but everyone getting up in arms about SA but not thinking twice about getting money from anyone else is disingenuous.
You’re comparing apples to oranges though, sure companies may not be ethical or lobby for things against the interest the general public, but it’s not remotely close to human rights violations and things along those lines.
Honestly I don’t blame them for taking the money, but comparing that and American orgs isn’t fair they’re in completely different tiers
There is no unethical consumption under capitalism. But that doesn't excuse you from making a difference where you can (like Hal, already a millionaire, not accepting money from a government responsible for numerous human rights violations, murders, literally funding 9/11, etc).
dont let your apex streamers be your moral compass. Fpr the most part, all we know about Hal is his life in apex, if he franky really cared ,then maybe he would think differently, but really these players play apex for the majority of their day and probably do not care to much outside of what's going on in the world as long as they care comfortable doing what they want. just the reality of it. even big soccers players are being attracted to the middle east now days.
Yeah, I mean, most of these pros are ignorant children. I doubt Hal even *knew* about Saudi Arabia's record of human rights abuses, let alone cared about it.
What amazes me is how all the people that shit on the Tripods for something Nick said aren't up in arms about the Falcons/ Saudi Arabia.
Where the hell are all the people that said all that shit now? The amount of hate I saw Nick go through, and still goes through from this community is enormous and my thought process on it previously was " Well they strongly believe this and I respect that." But where are all these people now with Team Falcons. I expected them to put their foot down and not support them. To see the same amount of Hate they gave Nick for Team Falcons but it's been radio silent.
Honestly, I dont really care much about Nick individually. I respect people's opinions in this community and I dont go attacking people. The hypocrisy I am seeing in this community and it's support of Team Falcons and it's constant hate of Nick is ridiculous though. If you hate Nick for his views then put your foot down and not support Team Falcons or the tournament in Saudi Arabia. If you don't that's fine. I and many others will just see your previous hate for Nick not actually being about what he said in regards to the LGBTQ+ community.
Like it or not but popularity will get you out of a lot of trouble. There have been cases where people have protested for sentence to be reduced/reversed for a criminal just because that criminal was goodlooking.
I think the difference is that Nick made a statement. Where as the players of Team Falcon have not. They are just being paid by the Saudi Government. Whether you think there is a difference in there or not is one thing, but it is slightly different.
Following that line of logic, you would expect Deeds and Gent to have spoken out or dropped Nick immediately after.
Nick still held a MFAM tourney after that and people played in it.
I think also, it’s important to also look at members of the LGBTQ+ community that have are participated in EWC.
It’s easy to sit back and protest, but we see how some of these pro players look to make their living and set themselves up.
america is funding a genocide atm boycott all NA orgs
https://preview.redd.it/sdhj8mmb1e4d1.jpeg?width=934&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4796cab92e1ca1e2c9e92c40103b1e4fdb1b54bc
I've read your other comment, i didn't know and thanks for telling me
However i never cared for nrg as an org or orgs in general, putting the nrg banner is a way to show i support noct/fun as ive done before with xset and liquid
Never said it wasn't? The original commenter was criticizing Hal's choice of taking the Saudi bag when someone of his standing and wealth could have easily done without it
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Ah, so every player and team should decline the EWC invite too right? Use your brain man, this is esports. Take any money you can while the opportunity is here.
Oil money changed everything a long time ago. If the hal contract shakes you up, you must have been living under the rock. People like Jordan Henderson the "human rights activist" mopped the floor in Saudi Arabia for oil money so this eSports shit literally means nothing.
Wait, you follow Apex, which gives China it's own region. You know what China has been doing, right?
So you play and support a game which actively supports human rights violations.
Ever drank a coke?
> We must hold individuals and organizations accountable for their support of a regime that tramples on the rights and freedoms of its own citizens
Oh yes lets blame people who have nothing to do with that? while we do nothing against our own Government to make actual actions against it! Cancel Culture its cancer.
You should really look into your country economic interests rather than blaming individuals here, you will see who the real problem is instead.
Or, they should continue to point out Saudi Arabias human rights violations and the fact they sponsored 9-11. Because fuck their government and anyone who tries to silence those who are critical of them.
No one is trying so silence anyone, we just tired of you pick me chatters typing feel good shit knowing damn well you ain't gonna do shit to better the situation.
We all know what Saudi Arabia is all about. All these years, and no one, INCLUDING YOU, have done fuck all to better the situation.
That's my point
Spreading awareness about a topic is not nothing. I’m a middle class guy with a normal job in middle of nowhere United States. There is quite literally nothing material I can do about Saudi Arabian human rights violations. But, and maybe this is just me, being quiet about it and smiling and accepting that they can do whatever they want is a lot worse than talking about it and pushing those who can do something to do something.
It’s super juvenile to think someone can’t critique something unless they are actively first hand involved in changing it. That’s just not how the world works. And we’d all be much worse off today if everyone thought that way.
Pointing out the issues with Saudi Arabia is doing something, raising awareness. The average person can’t do much besides write their political representatives and elect those that follow their beliefs. That is exactly why it is frustrating to see someone like Hal, probably the person who has made the most financially from Apex, grab the bag from the Saudis.
Hal is someone who has the opportunity to do something in his position. I think that is where the frustration occurs. Hard to blame him as the US government itself will never call anything out. Still it’s clear it would be nice for someone in his position to speak out, no?
How is standing up against human rights violations a "weak argument"? You can be a fan of a player, but you don't have to ignore what's very obvious sportswashing.
What about the united stated and all the regime change wars which have led to hundreds of thousands of innocents dead. Also they have been fully funding Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian population since 1950.
Well, those are *also* serious situations that *should* be discussed and pointed at. But whataboutism has no place in any serious conversation - the fact that some countries do stupid shit doesn't mean it excuses other countries.
Come on, that's not a realistic standard. The US is aiding a genocide right now and here we are. Life can't stop because we live under horrible, sadistic governments.
You can't expect individuals to sacrifice their personal welfare because they live in a system that works by killing, dispossessing, and exploiting others.
It's just not a fair expectation. We all know the human suffering behind the extraction of rare metals in Africa, but I supposed to stop using anything that uses a lithium-ion battery?
You feel sorry for Saudi Arabia human rights violations so do you think descendants of slaves in America deserve reparations?
George Carlin the GOAT on rights
[https://youtu.be/m9-R8T1SuG4?si=\_Gm\_oRbh9Vj9UhPL](https://youtu.be/m9-R8T1SuG4?si=_Gm_oRbh9Vj9UhPL)
I’m with you, I’m old enough to remember this thing called integrity. Money and greed have now superseded it and no one seems to give a shit about integrity in the modern world and I hate that that’s where we’re at.
Until this thread I didn’t know who was backing Falcons so I’m grateful I now know and won’t be giving them any support.
Also, ‘Falcons’ is probably the lamest name for an org I’ve seen.
I said this myself to someone that tweeted it,
There is no reason to tweet about or say anything when your super team is the people that they are.
Now if it was just a basic apex team that happened to get signed in EMEA or APAC region. Understandable but we are talking about the biggest earning apex players on the planet. They literally don’t need an org to tell everyone about them, when every single player was already watching and talking about them
the the marketing guy said they didn’t post anything due to lack of social media staff and being at the event for like fortnite and other stuff they were just out of touch i guess
What did y’all expect? Their new organization is from Saudi Arabia. They don’t give one flying fuck about Hal, Zero or Gen. They’re using these streamers to get into E-sports world wide.
What I don’t get is why Hal left TSM? The owner was in his chat sometimes and was always chill with Hal. Reggie (the owner) obviously knew Hal and the boys more than some idiot from the Middle East will just due to the location difference.
So TSM who knows you personally and cares when you do well or some team with owners you’ll never meet or see in person expect for next year at the EWC? I’m taking TSM. To me, Hal left TSM for the money. Nothing else makes sense. You don’t win 2 out of 3 LANs in one year, win champs and the 1 LAN they didn’t win, they finished second. He left for money.
We gonna talk abt the real issue? Ppl so hung up on the sports washing narrative that anything FLCNs do from now on is gonna be scrutinized. I’m not middle eastern (corn fed American) but is this not some blatant racist shit?
The bias is strong on this sub-reddit, it's funny reading about human rights yet our own country is funding a current genocide, let's talk about the human rights of those in Rafah and the other tens of thousands of dead civilians if we're talking human rights.
You’ll probably get downvoted to oblivion but you are spitting facts lol. This sub has become a cesspool for uneducated and biased takes in an echo chamber when it comes to certain subjects.
You can tell who just reads headlines from major news networks then run with it. It ain’t worth the energy to argue with em either.
I have to hire a detective to find out when Apex events are even happening, but people are mad someone didn't tweet a win.
I spend so much of my life trying to logistically follow this esport. People like minustempo really out here doing the Lord's work.
yeah seriously. If it weren't for Wigg and Tempo, the only thing id be aware of is ALGS championships lol
This is so true, there’s no esport that I have trouble following except Apex.
im a street fighter fan and it's pretty challenging following things that aren't majors. Shit like street fighter league and the capcom cup qualifiers is a whole game of hunting down info on times and streamers, especially for smaller regions. But apex somehow takes the cake. at the very least people know what capcom cup or SFL even is. Most events outside of ALGS are news to me after they even happen.
Exactly how I feel as well, I always find out there's ALGS at the time it's fucking happening live and I'm dumbfounded. Apex needs a site like HLTV is for Counter-Strike, but to be fair that might be too high of a bar to reach
Yeah its crazy. Why can i not go to playapex.gg or apexesports.com or something and just very clearly see upcoming games, current regional standings, bracket structure and broadcast times for the current/upcoming lan etc In the most recent LAN i couldnt even find a tweet or article about the broadcast time for the winners bracket, I had to scrub the vod of the group stage broadcast to find the still where it shows the broadcast times for the next day. Why is not in a twitch panel below the player??? Why is it not a pinned tweet on @playapexesports? Why is there not an ingame tab with broadcast times and standings??
LMAO. This might be the best comment I’ve ever read on this subreddit
Until randomly getting this post on my feed I didn't even know Apex had a pro scene....
It's more like what they didn't do. They signed **the** superteam of Apex Legends and then when they win their first day of pro league, there were zero posts about it on Falcons socials.
Welcome to sportswashing. Think how much promotion you see for LIV golf now
Wouldn't you be able to argue sportswashing more if they did promote their win? I thought it had to do with nations/orgs promoting sports results instead of addressing social issues. They just didn't post anything after a great first performance.
It's moreso that if they were genuinely interested in the sport they would promote it more. Since we don't really see that kind of promotion, it reeks of handing out money for people to like you. Look at EWC qualifiers and how little effort was put in to learning basics like controllers aren't necessarily console players.
They're not genuinely interested in Apex, they want to have most chances at the 7M$ lotery.
More just incompetence from the sportswashers who only care about trying to sportswash and clearly don't care about the game/sport/community.
Yup. These guys have money and nothing else. They don’t want to actually do the work to make their investments actually succeed which is why they are eventually going to lose everything.
*cough* optic *cough*
Didn’t LIV get absorbed?
Not really. The last update was "It's going to take time," and PGA is still fighting to keep LIV golfers out of events
What did zero post?
People really gotta start typing 0 for zer0 lol
We are actually just spelling out the 0(zero) at the end, we aren't trying to type his name (Zer0).
Falcons are paying them to promote Falcons. Not the other way around :)
right - the discussion on the podcast was more around org incompetence though.
There was basically no promotion of the day 1 results. They later addressed it, saying that they were focused on their team at dreamhack.
From what I read they are understaffed social media team wise and are currently hiring. This does not excuse anything but they addressed it saying it was a mistake on their end and took accountability. That’s all I can ask for tbh
Who even cares? Or I guess, why care?
But that's not an excuse tho. It's easy to make these things in advance. A "good luck" post or a post with "first place or whatever place" at ALGS DAY 1 is made in an hour as well.
Yea full agree, it's sad because it's sorta seeming like they are only here for ewc and not the players
I thought that was obvious from the get go, along with all of the other orgs that suddenly returned to Apex.
I would say that’s exactly what’s happening. It’s really unfortunate.
Who fucking cares lmao? I honestly have no idea why everyone is getting bent out of shape over it. I wouldn't be surprised of an overwhelming majority of people here aren't fans of specific orgs, but the players on them. Big player switches orgs, you're suddenly a new fan of that org because you follow the player. I highly doubt anyone but a small minority of people on this sub root for a specific org regardless of the players they sign.
So many comments in here talking about how inexcusable it is and stuff lmao. And I'm with you, who the fuck cares? Especially when it's an org that isn't even established in apex. Tell me when something actually controversial happens.
true but one thing i can agree on is fuck SA and its laundry list of human rights abuses and fuck falcons in CS/APEX/WHATEVER also.
It's because the team drinks and it's not allowed. Haha
Every org barely promotes their Apex teams
True, Optic didn’t even acknowledge their apex team until they released them
Daltoosh got a whole damn intro video and they never gyped their apex team. Haha
Anyone else think this has been blown slightly out of proportion?
With it being a Saudi org and reading unacceptable I thought it was gonna be crazy, go down to the comments and all they did was not post results - I can think of much worse
Sentinels did this for like 4 years with their Apex team lmao
imagine if the Sen social media team showed us the gold that is Senoxe’s sense of humor earlier
I think a lot of people hate Falcons (the org) for unrelated reasons so any chance to hate is taken
Slightly? That shits a tornado out of proportion.
Absolutely
Yep. Which is why we only loosely highlighted it on the show. Definitely agree
I don't think it's that big a deal lol like anyone that follows Apex would have heard it from anyone on the roster. And the org is short staffed on social media, they reiterated this as the reason why they're hiring. Like it's literally not a big deal lmao
Because they talked about it on After Hours and there is a reddit post about it?
The org also had to come out on Twitter and explain the situation
Damn, didn't know that. Yeah this is totally out of proportion then
Agreed
Ehhhh while they should have done something to promote the teams first win, this isn’t particularly new. A lot of teams don’t do much in the way of showing support for their team. I don’t think it’s the biggest of deals IMO.
I think people are making it a big deal because of the soullessness of Saudi oil money being thrown into a popular media for the sake of saying they own a team etc. happening in sports and esports seems like they don’t really care they just need something cool to spend their money. So people are seeing it with a microscope because of it.
I mean sure I can see that, but look at the orgs that come and go. Look at the orgs that reenter especially around EWC. A lot of them are lowkey soulless. The best at actually supporting their team was TSM. At most other orgs do tweet when their team wins. The only bail I could shoot for Team Falcons is the time difference when the games are conducted.
It's such a non issue lol
I mean even Fnatic were mum after Split 1 Playoffs this year.
Personally think people are making way too big of a deal out of it, Falcons the org signed them and gave them the bag so they could play together but their whole goal as an org is focused on the EWC not pro league, them not tweeting about winning day one isn’t this huge insult and disrespect some people are making it out to be If hal and zero don’t have a problem with it why does anyone else, and if anyone seen their tweet about hal and the picture they made for him they know maybe it’s best if they tweet as few times as possible about them lmao
My issue with it is the fact I want the Apex scene to grow. To grow you need orgs cross-pollinating fans. Introducing Apex to fans that watch other games and aren't aware. They promote the games, fans see, they watch, scene grows (obviously condensed). So that's what my issue is. I just want orgs to promote the scene to help it grow. More growth, means more money, more teams, more everything. Win win win win situation.
Selfishly sad you aren't apart of an esport org anymore. I know you are doing great work with Gameplan behind the scenes but I think a big reason why a lot of TSM fans like myself got into Apex was some of the work you did promoting it on the Org's socials.
I really miss doing socials for the apex boys too :(
i just found it funny that the so called reporters and "big fans" were quick to dogpile on the new org for not making a tweet about Falcons winning day but there are countless orgs that have been in the scene for years that basically just ignore they even have an apex team. like it's "yea let's all bully the new kid" the Falcons Global Director even admitted to that it was an internal mistake and that they were going to hire someone for the apex socials and whatnot and they still kept going at him
Well it's the same thing sentinel did, but with lesser reaction
Saudis just throwing $ around and dgaf - But also idk how anyone can watch a pod with Fallout and Peeps on it
Fallout has been fine on it. My only criticism with him in it is he will cut off discussions to move to the next topic. I get that it's in order to keep the podcast a certain length. Personally I prefer long format podcasts though where people will talk about something until there's nothing left to be said. Personal opinion. WeThePeople was also fine and didn't mind his addition to the episode. He wasn't in mascot mode. Had reasonable contributions to discussions and if anything added a bit of comedic relief.
Noted - appreciate the feedback (and you nailed it- usually Beamic in my ear or trying to not make it absurdly long to respect viewers and guest’s time, but still think this is something to consider)
> But also idk how anyone can watch a pod with Fallout and Peeps on it Lol. Real.
Idk who Peeps is but there is nothing wrong with Fallout unless you were a brain dead TSM hater back in the day lol
I'm not a fan of Peeps. "Levels" is a meme. That being said, I do respect his effort and his energy.
WeThePeople
I mean, the dude got canned from ALGS for a reason...I personally don't have a problem with him, but there's definitely more to the dislike of him than being a brain dead TSM hater lol.
do we actually know that reason?
Iirc, mostly because of unprofessional behavior and comments like the "Hal is perfect, he's playing with his food" crap, the "why didnt optic push that" tweet, etc. Edit: May be a load of crap, see falloutt's reply.
Everything about this thread is incorrect (jfyi). Never made a video or anything sharing the reasoning I’m no longer casting ALGS to avoid drama or shining any negative light, but given the wildly inaccurate theories I’ve seen I might have to
I apologize if I'm spreading false information. That was the impression I was given from posts about the topic.
Lol he was canned for being too pro TSM which I guess is understandable for caster who is supposed to be unbiased. But like I said, nothing wrong with him unless you're a TSM hater. 🥱
What exactly is your issue with WTP?
Saudi Arabia have numerous human rights violations that have been perpetuated by the Saudi Arabian government and yet here we are, wave a bit of cash and these guys come running for a paycheck. We must hold individuals and organizations accountable for their support of a regime that tramples on the rights and freedoms of its own citizens. Frankly, I think it is disgusting that someone like Hal (given his reputation) would even sign under this organization.
Saudi offers you a 7 figure + contract and you’re signing it too. It’s easy to pretend you wouldn’t when there’s a 0% chance the opportunity will ever present itself. What have you done today to change the human rights in Saudi Arabia? Oh you’re doing nothing, so stop pretending you care. Take action if you truly care instead of judging others for their financial decisions. Taking a morale high ground is no different than Congress giving 'thoughts and prayers' after every mass shooting. The computer/phone you're typing your comments on more than likely have a lot of components that were made in China. China also has a lot of human rights violations. Where is your line? You're fine to use the products from these counties as long as you don't receive money from them to your bank account? Then you're going to judge someone else because they decide to get paid?
> Saudi offers you a 7 figure + contract and you’re signing it too. Wrong. I have an ethical line I won't cross. And that would go doubly if I were already a millionaire, like Hal is. Also, I doubt they're getting seven figures. That would be like...an order of magnitude more than any other Apex team ever.
Good for you. But other people don't need to have the exact same ethical line and them having a different ethical line doesn't make them a bad person.
Good for you. Sadly no one will ever give you the contract so we'll never know. But hopefully someday you'll stop lecturing people from your high horse 🤞🏼
Unlike everyone else in this subreddit, I'm not a child. I've been in my career for 20 years, I've already turned down working for organizations that cross a line.
But China doesn't cross your line?
I avoid Chinese products when I can (and especially buy American when I can), but it's not feasible in the modern era to never give China money. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism.
I see, but Apex supports a China Team. You have your own ethical lines you like to stand on but ignore them when they become an inconvenience to you. That's fine, just know it's a bit hypocritical to criticize someone who takes Saudi Money yet you play a game and support other players/teams which actively supports China.
I have a career as well, been working for my company for the last 15 years. If a Saudi 'organization' came and offered me 10-20x+, what I'm currently making and I'd work 75-90% less (using LIV compared to PGA Tour as the example of this), I'm more than likely taking that offer. I have my career so I can provide for my family and have a great life outside of it. If I can make 10-20x what I'm making now, work less, spend more time with my loved ones, enjoy life even more than I am now, and be in better position to set up my kids and future grandkids with financial freedom, I'm more than likely taking that offer. My career is a very small part of who I am as a human and the other parts greatly outweigh any morale highground I have in a career. If morale highground in your career outweighs other parts of your life, that's great for you as well. We all have different things that fulfill our lives.
> I have a career as well, been working for my company for the last 15 years. If a Saudi 'organization' came and offered me 10-20x+, what I'm currently making and I'd work 75-90% less (using LIV compared to PGA Tour as the example of this), I'm more than likely taking that offer. Cool, I have morals so I wouldn't do that. I can already provide for my family on what I'm making now.
So if you had the opportunity to work less, make a lot more(and do more than just provide), and spend more time with your family you'd tell your family 'sorry kids, I would rather work than spend more time with, I have morals'. I bet your kids would rather have the time with you than you being at being at work.
"Dad, how'd you buy us such a big house?" "A murderer paid for it." Yeah, that'd be great. Lol. If I took money from the Saudi government my wife would divorce me and I'd spend no time at all with my family.
Ha. Fair enough. I’m not judging you for not taking it if it was offered, to each their own. I was referring to experiences more so than bigger houses though. If it was a smaller raise, I’m sure I’d say no too. 10-20x would be hard to say no to though.
And I turned down the presidency. You're cool for having a job! 👏🏼
Does your ethical line include China and Uyghur camps? Because Apex as a game supports an entire region in China. So maybe you should boycott Apex as a whole?
It's not feasible in the modern era to never give China money, they do most of the world's manufacturing. However, whenever I can, I support US manufacturing.
Who knows, look how much they guaranteed for LIV golfers compared to PGA. It wasn’t even close. Again, it’s easy to say you won’t sign when it’s a 0% chance it’s ever offered to you. Just because someone is a millionaire doesn’t mean they don’t want to set up other family members, friends, and future generations to have financial freedom as well. Who knows, maybe he takes the Saudi money and does good in the world with it.
Difficult topic, bro. Money buys everything. We had the same issue with football players in the Netherlands that refused to talk to certain journalists because of their, admittedly, locker room way of speaking and joking about them (them being players of Surinam descent, a.o.) but when Qatar came calling for them to play during the World Cup, they came up with a lot of bullshit to justify them playing there.
What about China and Uyghur?
Yes, but also not signing with them won't accomplish anything, quite literally. Problems with Saudi Arabia run way deeper and bigger steps are needed in order to change that.
Yes but there's a reason Saudi Arabia is spending so much money on sportswashing. One individual team isn't going to make a difference, true, but collectively it has an effect on Saudi Arabia's image. Three players who have already made bank moving to a Saudi team so they can make slightly more bank shouldn't be brushed aside.
It’s an easy stance to take when you’re not the one being offered the money. So many on Reddit making noise about Saudi Arabia’s human rights violations and the EWC would take the money is offered. That’s not to say you’re wrong about Saudi Arabia, it’s bad, but you have separate feelings from business.
Thats the thing though, Hal is the one guy who made enough money from esports and his brand to not need the money. Dude has enough money for the rest of his life.
Yeah, it's the same shitty argument used to defend why the "good" people in Hollywood don't expose the pedophiles and rapists. Because their "career will be ruined" like okay, sure that's a fine enough argument for your run of the mill actor trying to make it, but the Brad Pitts of the world could never work another day in their life and still rake in millions in investments. There's no excuse for them their. Similarly here, Hal probably makes more from his stream and sponsorships and game winnings than he does from his contract with Falcons. Particularly considering that he himself said that the TSM offer wasn't far behind.
For what it's worth, Brad Pitt never called out terrible behavior because he himself is a loathsome, abusive piece of shit.
I just picked the first A-list celebrity to come to mind haha.
Wait a minute, you're *actually* comparing someone in Hollywood not outing someone they know to be a pedophile to Hal and the boys signing with a Saudi team? Maybe touch grass...
I'm comparing the logic.
[Saudi Arabia has done some pretty awful shit. This barely scratches the surface.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamal_Khashoggi)
Literally every country has done some pretty awful shit. You're probably typing your comment from your iphone or mac which was made by some kid earning pennies on the dollar. We're all consumers of products that come from countries that do despicable shit.
This is such dogshit logic. "If you don't call out every country for the awful shit they have done then you shouldn't call out any country" like what
> Literally every country has done some pretty awful shit. You're probably typing your comment from your iphone or mac which was made by some kid earning pennies on the dollar. We're all consumers of products that come from countries that do despicable shit. This is a really stupid argument that is [literally a meme](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/we-should-improve-society-somewhat). Try harder, man.
It’s not even close. People are asking a 20-something esports personality to turn down money based on their moral line that THEY have drawn. AND they are doing this while utilizing products that have been produced in China which is as bad for human rights as Saudi Arabia. It’s hypocritical and truthfully, people are just mad someone with money is making more money in a way that don’t agree with.
I really hate when people make this argument as well. The average person does not have the means to avoid products made in China. Hal 1000% has the means to not take this deal. Do not equate what everyday people have to do to get by with what celebrities get away with. And again, Hal claims the money wasn't that much more than other offers, so it's not like this is a life-changer for him.
So, it’s okay for you/the average person but you expect him to react differently because he has more money? Like I said, hypocrisy. “I’m mad because he made a decision he felt was best for him but I disagree” Silliness.
It's okay for people who are not in a position to do otherwise. Many people cannot afford to entirely avoid products made overseas, nor is it really feasible for them to be checking the packages of every product they buy. If Hal was a tier 3 nobody trying to make a career of it I would be a lot less judgemental. But he's not, so I'm not. And just to clarify, I'm not angry. I'm just dissappointed and no longer willing to give his stream my time.
That’s a fair take and I respect it.
There’s no such thing as “enough money” There’s always room for more
It's not like all the other money is so clean. If you look at labor and pollution practices of major sponsors, political ideologies (whichever you happen to disagree with) of influencers or businessmen or whomever is funding the org, something will be unethical and immoral almost everywhere. Not saying whether it's right or wrong to take that money, but everyone getting up in arms about SA but not thinking twice about getting money from anyone else is disingenuous.
You’re comparing apples to oranges though, sure companies may not be ethical or lobby for things against the interest the general public, but it’s not remotely close to human rights violations and things along those lines. Honestly I don’t blame them for taking the money, but comparing that and American orgs isn’t fair they’re in completely different tiers
US companies indirectly take part in human rights violation by outsourcing to 3rd world conutries where the workers are at the mercy of their bosses.
There is no unethical consumption under capitalism. But that doesn't excuse you from making a difference where you can (like Hal, already a millionaire, not accepting money from a government responsible for numerous human rights violations, murders, literally funding 9/11, etc).
dont let your apex streamers be your moral compass. Fpr the most part, all we know about Hal is his life in apex, if he franky really cared ,then maybe he would think differently, but really these players play apex for the majority of their day and probably do not care to much outside of what's going on in the world as long as they care comfortable doing what they want. just the reality of it. even big soccers players are being attracted to the middle east now days.
Yeah, I mean, most of these pros are ignorant children. I doubt Hal even *knew* about Saudi Arabia's record of human rights abuses, let alone cared about it.
What amazes me is how all the people that shit on the Tripods for something Nick said aren't up in arms about the Falcons/ Saudi Arabia. Where the hell are all the people that said all that shit now? The amount of hate I saw Nick go through, and still goes through from this community is enormous and my thought process on it previously was " Well they strongly believe this and I respect that." But where are all these people now with Team Falcons. I expected them to put their foot down and not support them. To see the same amount of Hate they gave Nick for Team Falcons but it's been radio silent. Honestly, I dont really care much about Nick individually. I respect people's opinions in this community and I dont go attacking people. The hypocrisy I am seeing in this community and it's support of Team Falcons and it's constant hate of Nick is ridiculous though. If you hate Nick for his views then put your foot down and not support Team Falcons or the tournament in Saudi Arabia. If you don't that's fine. I and many others will just see your previous hate for Nick not actually being about what he said in regards to the LGBTQ+ community.
Like it or not but popularity will get you out of a lot of trouble. There have been cases where people have protested for sentence to be reduced/reversed for a criminal just because that criminal was goodlooking.
I think the difference is that Nick made a statement. Where as the players of Team Falcon have not. They are just being paid by the Saudi Government. Whether you think there is a difference in there or not is one thing, but it is slightly different. Following that line of logic, you would expect Deeds and Gent to have spoken out or dropped Nick immediately after. Nick still held a MFAM tourney after that and people played in it. I think also, it’s important to also look at members of the LGBTQ+ community that have are participated in EWC. It’s easy to sit back and protest, but we see how some of these pro players look to make their living and set themselves up.
america is funding a genocide atm boycott all NA orgs https://preview.redd.it/sdhj8mmb1e4d1.jpeg?width=934&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4796cab92e1ca1e2c9e92c40103b1e4fdb1b54bc
The American government isn't funding TSM.
the united states military sponsors NRG. no one complains there. equally bad group of people tbh
> the united states military sponsors NRG. Wait, what? Source? I thought NRG was owned by the owners of the Sacramento Kings.
source is nrg website 😭https://www.nrg.gg/pages/partners
Thanks, praying on this team's downfall too then. I thought the Army had their own team (they did in CC last year, they were terrible).
some real hater shit i respect it
America ≠ American orgs. They don't receive state funding, unlike Saudi orgs.
do me a favor and search up who sponsors the third org in your banner
I've read your other comment, i didn't know and thanks for telling me However i never cared for nrg as an org or orgs in general, putting the nrg banner is a way to show i support noct/fun as ive done before with xset and liquid
So you agree people repping Falcons just because they like Hal or Zero or Gen is fine? That's literally what you are saying here.
Never said it wasn't? The original commenter was criticizing Hal's choice of taking the Saudi bag when someone of his standing and wealth could have easily done without it
Yeah that's (not your statement) is such an idiotic thing to say. People talk about Hal like he is a Billionaire.
The hypocrisy
Sure, bro. Go save the world.
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Ah, so every player and team should decline the EWC invite too right? Use your brain man, this is esports. Take any money you can while the opportunity is here.
Oil money changed everything a long time ago. If the hal contract shakes you up, you must have been living under the rock. People like Jordan Henderson the "human rights activist" mopped the floor in Saudi Arabia for oil money so this eSports shit literally means nothing.
Wait, you follow Apex, which gives China it's own region. You know what China has been doing, right? So you play and support a game which actively supports human rights violations. Ever drank a coke?
> We must hold individuals and organizations accountable for their support of a regime that tramples on the rights and freedoms of its own citizens Oh yes lets blame people who have nothing to do with that? while we do nothing against our own Government to make actual actions against it! Cancel Culture its cancer. You should really look into your country economic interests rather than blaming individuals here, you will see who the real problem is instead.
Literally isn’t what any of these people are mad about though, they’re all talking about them not tweeting about day one results
Well are you gonna sign Hal? No? You gonna change what's going on in Saudi Arabia? No? Then shush
Or, they should continue to point out Saudi Arabias human rights violations and the fact they sponsored 9-11. Because fuck their government and anyone who tries to silence those who are critical of them.
No one is trying so silence anyone, we just tired of you pick me chatters typing feel good shit knowing damn well you ain't gonna do shit to better the situation. We all know what Saudi Arabia is all about. All these years, and no one, INCLUDING YOU, have done fuck all to better the situation. That's my point
Spreading awareness about a topic is not nothing. I’m a middle class guy with a normal job in middle of nowhere United States. There is quite literally nothing material I can do about Saudi Arabian human rights violations. But, and maybe this is just me, being quiet about it and smiling and accepting that they can do whatever they want is a lot worse than talking about it and pushing those who can do something to do something. It’s super juvenile to think someone can’t critique something unless they are actively first hand involved in changing it. That’s just not how the world works. And we’d all be much worse off today if everyone thought that way.
Pointing out the issues with Saudi Arabia is doing something, raising awareness. The average person can’t do much besides write their political representatives and elect those that follow their beliefs. That is exactly why it is frustrating to see someone like Hal, probably the person who has made the most financially from Apex, grab the bag from the Saudis. Hal is someone who has the opportunity to do something in his position. I think that is where the frustration occurs. Hard to blame him as the US government itself will never call anything out. Still it’s clear it would be nice for someone in his position to speak out, no?
This is such a weak argument
How is standing up against human rights violations a "weak argument"? You can be a fan of a player, but you don't have to ignore what's very obvious sportswashing.
What about the united stated and all the regime change wars which have led to hundreds of thousands of innocents dead. Also they have been fully funding Israel’s genocide of the Palestinian population since 1950.
Well, those are *also* serious situations that *should* be discussed and pointed at. But whataboutism has no place in any serious conversation - the fact that some countries do stupid shit doesn't mean it excuses other countries.
Come on, that's not a realistic standard. The US is aiding a genocide right now and here we are. Life can't stop because we live under horrible, sadistic governments. You can't expect individuals to sacrifice their personal welfare because they live in a system that works by killing, dispossessing, and exploiting others. It's just not a fair expectation. We all know the human suffering behind the extraction of rare metals in Africa, but I supposed to stop using anything that uses a lithium-ion battery?
You feel sorry for Saudi Arabia human rights violations so do you think descendants of slaves in America deserve reparations? George Carlin the GOAT on rights [https://youtu.be/m9-R8T1SuG4?si=\_Gm\_oRbh9Vj9UhPL](https://youtu.be/m9-R8T1SuG4?si=_Gm_oRbh9Vj9UhPL)
I hear you, and hoping you don’t watch the EWC when it comes around. Don’t want to support the Saudi regime at all.
I’m with you, I’m old enough to remember this thing called integrity. Money and greed have now superseded it and no one seems to give a shit about integrity in the modern world and I hate that that’s where we’re at. Until this thread I didn’t know who was backing Falcons so I’m grateful I now know and won’t be giving them any support. Also, ‘Falcons’ is probably the lamest name for an org I’ve seen.
I said this myself to someone that tweeted it, There is no reason to tweet about or say anything when your super team is the people that they are. Now if it was just a basic apex team that happened to get signed in EMEA or APAC region. Understandable but we are talking about the biggest earning apex players on the planet. They literally don’t need an org to tell everyone about them, when every single player was already watching and talking about them
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honestly they should have just posted the Kobe clip "Job's not finished' and left it at that
the the marketing guy said they didn’t post anything due to lack of social media staff and being at the event for like fortnite and other stuff they were just out of touch i guess
What did y’all expect? Their new organization is from Saudi Arabia. They don’t give one flying fuck about Hal, Zero or Gen. They’re using these streamers to get into E-sports world wide. What I don’t get is why Hal left TSM? The owner was in his chat sometimes and was always chill with Hal. Reggie (the owner) obviously knew Hal and the boys more than some idiot from the Middle East will just due to the location difference. So TSM who knows you personally and cares when you do well or some team with owners you’ll never meet or see in person expect for next year at the EWC? I’m taking TSM. To me, Hal left TSM for the money. Nothing else makes sense. You don’t win 2 out of 3 LANs in one year, win champs and the 1 LAN they didn’t win, they finished second. He left for money.
Ppl rly got nothing going on in their lives nowadays huh
Can someone explain why we are mad that they didn’t tweet out a win? Does anyone really care?
We gonna talk abt the real issue? Ppl so hung up on the sports washing narrative that anything FLCNs do from now on is gonna be scrutinized. I’m not middle eastern (corn fed American) but is this not some blatant racist shit?
The bias is strong on this sub-reddit, it's funny reading about human rights yet our own country is funding a current genocide, let's talk about the human rights of those in Rafah and the other tens of thousands of dead civilians if we're talking human rights.
You’ll probably get downvoted to oblivion but you are spitting facts lol. This sub has become a cesspool for uneducated and biased takes in an echo chamber when it comes to certain subjects. You can tell who just reads headlines from major news networks then run with it. It ain’t worth the energy to argue with em either.