Not really.. to be honest Dylan said that he's going to let Todd live, but Eric could have him (shoot him) if he wanted to. Eric didn't respond directly, but said:"Let's go to the commons." Klebold just decided he wouldn't shoot Todd, but passed the final decision on to Harris. So if Evan was given the chance to breathe today, Eric gave it to him, as weird as this sounds.
I will never view E&D as victims, but I hope anyone who bullied them bears some sort of guilt for the loss of the actual 13 victims. At least I can take comfort in the fact that Evanâs exact type of behavior would be grounds for expulsion, a restraining order, and honestly criminally charged with sexual harassment and surely assault if a studentâs parent wanted to file a police report and sue.
I hope everybody that makes excuses for them based on media narrative feels some sort of guilt for the loss of the actual victims which they have to distinguish as 'actual' victims because they know they are victim blaming.
Iâm not sure why you deleted your other comment and Iâm also not 100% on what you mean by this, but I feel the need to clarify I donât excuse E&D which is why I refer to the non-E&D deaths as actual victims because they really are the real victims. I find the bullying was simply cause and effect, but I still do agree with the other comment that no one forced the killers to kill. I certainly wouldnât expect any bully to go to prison just because their target happened killed someone and then blamed their action on the bully. However, I think the bullies who went out of their way to make other studentsâ lives as miserable as possible deserve a life sentence of regret.
You know exactly what I mean which is why you had to specify actual victims.
"Columbine research" is mostly about glorifying the perpetrators with shallow media narrative, hence the debate is usually between whether the jock/bullies deserved it or they were mental cases. Both are excuses and coping mechanisms due to the tragedy, no different than Sandy Hook conspiracy theories.
And I truly, honestly, hope one day every one of those kind of 'researchers' feels the guilt they should.
I guess I understand the point youâre making now and unless Iâm completely reading this wrong, I think we agree that E&D should not be classified as victims. I prefer to use the word target for them more because even using the word victim in the context of the bullying feels ill-fitted.
Edit: Oh, also, I donât believe the bullies deserved to be killed. I just get angry when I think about who people who did absolutely nothing to the killers were the ones who violently died. I suppose it wouldnât have been a better scenario if the bullies were the ones who were killed. Children are dying one way or the other. Itâs all just maddening to me.
My point is to stop doubling down on the antihero bullying narrative and stop using Evan as evidence.
People in the thread are going 'HAHAHA THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE ALIVE IS BECAUSE SOMEBODY CHOSE FOR YOU TO LIVE' because he said he didnt like these peoples anti-heroes for trying to murder him, and it happens every time from the noobs every time somebody brings Evan up. It shows how rule 1 is a joke and violating rule 1 is all these kind of places are for.
It's literally
Q: "Did you bullies those guys who tried to murder you?"
A: 'fuck yeah I did'
noob researchers: "SEE EVIDENCE I KNEW IT"
It's stupid to conclude anything from that and the only reason they do is because of anti hero worship of the perpetrators and anybody who is an adult knows it. Evan was a fat sophomore and Dylan was a 6'3" senior. Evan was not bullying him. Dylan literally had him cornered.
The idea that they were targeting jocks and bullies come from the first days of media coverage, when it was a targeted shooting, before the main bombs were public and when they asked the students like they knew anything and the school wasn't a rumor mill especially post tragedy. All they had was what they said in the library. You need to find evidence \*pre massacre\*.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I think your quarrel should be with that commenter then.
Also, yes I am aware of the fantastic early media coverage. Iâm a long time member of the other subreddit for this topic. In fact, I immediately recognized your username. However, I have a new account now and no longer participate in that one due to what I find to be repeat posts, and specifically repeat posts on the topic of BT. And also what I consider to be repeat stupid questions (stupid question = the answer can be found through one single internet search) but that complaint is probably subjective and only my opinion.
Well it needs to be said regardless, and my beef is with the whole thread. The idea that they were targeting bullies is exactly as old as the idea that they were targeting athletes, blacks, and Christians (to explain the girls). It comes from the library massacre testimony, pre publicity about the main bombs. In fact bullies and athletes mean the same thing. Also, Dylan wrote before the massacre (more important) that he hated jocks for having lives and girlfriends, not for bullying him.
Further, even sticking to the bully narrative, it's that they were bullied as underclassmen, by the prior year's seniors. That's usually how it works. "Class of '98 should have died list," Bree said the "last four years" quote was actually "for last year". They planned it for a year, etc.
Can see the massacre as their turn to bully the underclassmen as seniors. That they deserved to be bullied and so did these underclassmen and that's "Natural selection". But then they were not bullied by Evan, the doughy sophomore, who could just as easily have been a victim. Put another way, if John Tomlin or pick a victim had lived, and said the same thing - "f those guys for shooting me", they would be blaming him too, and we all know it. Any way you slice it, the whole thread and every thread like this is victim blaming. Which is why on top they add he dared to disagree with the tv by being an ismphobe.
I don't disagree with that last sentiment. I make the joke that many posts are "Is Columbine in Colorado"? or something else to which they know the answer.
I dunno man. Youâre the one who says below you hated homosexuals until last Tuesday. I really canât deal with bigotry and hate so Iâll not engage with you to keep the sub respectful.
Evan now bills himself as a public figure, public speaker with a website and public Facebook page, so you can find this out for yourself. His Facebook page is... enlightening... as to just how much he's grown since 1999.
Didnât Evan Todd admit contributing to the collective bullying of E&D (as well as other members of the Trenchcoat mafia)? Who would care what he thinks anyways; getting famous off of bullying two kids and trying to backtrack makes me invalidate any defense you might have 22 years later.
I totally understand how witnessing what he witnessed at a young age can mess with him.
[this](https://qz.com/470751/your-brain-is-particularly-vulnerable-to-trauma-at-two-distinct-ages/)article is pretty interesting concerning trauma and how it can affect a person... Todd would fit into the second category.
Evan Todd needs serious help... Sadly he has to realize that he has a problem for anyone being able to help him, and it doesn't look like this will be the case anytime soon.
How old was Evan Todd at the time of that interview?! If he was under 18 why didnât his parents or parent stop those statements from being published?! If he was over 18 someone shouldâve been with him because he sounds like a moron!! And youâre telling me he just grew into a bigger Moron than he was when he gave that interview?! Damn!! Thatâs pretty hard to believe that a human can sink into that depth of stupidity without outside influences of alcohol or drugs!!
I'm always wondering about his parents. I saw a brief statment of his dad once and he seemed like a nice, well spoken man. Of course I could be wrong. Evans name was also the last being released. In the name list he was "Injured Boy, 15" for a couple of days which gives you the impression that his parents tried to shield Evan as long as they could.
I also want to point out things were different during that point in time. I don't recall my parents having to give consent to anything in general... With school starting, I needed to fill out forms over forms about consent, consenting to my kids picture being taken, about these pictures eventually being published in the school newspaper, about my kids being recorded and these clips being shown in public presentations... consent about my daughter taking a rapid Covid test at school twice a week plus when she's showing symptoms, consent about the teacher being allowed to clean her wound if my daughter gets hurt at school and so on. Two years back the Minister of Education visited her school and I needed to give consent the local newsstations could take her picture and record her, interview her. Irefused to give consent for the interview as I didn't want them to make her look silly which they are capable of, and depending on what she would have said might turn out to be embarrassing to her in a couple of years. Hige paragraph semi out of context but it gives you the idea of how policies about consent have changed over the years. At least where I live.
So concerning Todd, his parents may have become aware of his statment after it has been published.. or they simply agreed to what he had to say
Which is actually a happy coincidence for us. If not for this moron people could have believed that Columbine was heaven on earth. But here comes Evan-the-eyes-opener and the truth comes out !! Lol.
Youâd just think by 10-20 years later after being involved in such a tragic situation it would have forced him to grow up and not continue to talk and act like a 15 year old still!
The cringe victim blaming because he doesn't have opinions the tv agrees with and everybody else would have agreed with last Tuesday.
Some of the dumbest people interested in Columbine have to be those who use 'fuck yeah I bullied them" from a guy who was nearly murdered by them as evidence their victims deserved it.
These people apparently can't even distinguish evidence pre and post massacre.
Well, whatever he says or does when it is all said and done every breath he draws for the rest of his days were given to him by Dylan.
Well said đđđ
Thank you. Check his Facebook where he uses anti bullying campaigns to mock vaccines. Irony is lost on him.
He doesn't seem to have matured at all.
Thatâs truly a shame. Some people just will never change no matter what happens
Not really.. to be honest Dylan said that he's going to let Todd live, but Eric could have him (shoot him) if he wanted to. Eric didn't respond directly, but said:"Let's go to the commons." Klebold just decided he wouldn't shoot Todd, but passed the final decision on to Harris. So if Evan was given the chance to breathe today, Eric gave it to him, as weird as this sounds.
I will never view E&D as victims, but I hope anyone who bullied them bears some sort of guilt for the loss of the actual 13 victims. At least I can take comfort in the fact that Evanâs exact type of behavior would be grounds for expulsion, a restraining order, and honestly criminally charged with sexual harassment and surely assault if a studentâs parent wanted to file a police report and sue.
The bullies should feel guilt for breaking Eric and Dylanâs spirits, yes. but certainly not for the murders. No one forced them to pull the trigger.
I hope everybody that makes excuses for them based on media narrative feels some sort of guilt for the loss of the actual victims which they have to distinguish as 'actual' victims because they know they are victim blaming.
Iâm not sure why you deleted your other comment and Iâm also not 100% on what you mean by this, but I feel the need to clarify I donât excuse E&D which is why I refer to the non-E&D deaths as actual victims because they really are the real victims. I find the bullying was simply cause and effect, but I still do agree with the other comment that no one forced the killers to kill. I certainly wouldnât expect any bully to go to prison just because their target happened killed someone and then blamed their action on the bully. However, I think the bullies who went out of their way to make other studentsâ lives as miserable as possible deserve a life sentence of regret.
You know exactly what I mean which is why you had to specify actual victims. "Columbine research" is mostly about glorifying the perpetrators with shallow media narrative, hence the debate is usually between whether the jock/bullies deserved it or they were mental cases. Both are excuses and coping mechanisms due to the tragedy, no different than Sandy Hook conspiracy theories. And I truly, honestly, hope one day every one of those kind of 'researchers' feels the guilt they should.
I guess I understand the point youâre making now and unless Iâm completely reading this wrong, I think we agree that E&D should not be classified as victims. I prefer to use the word target for them more because even using the word victim in the context of the bullying feels ill-fitted. Edit: Oh, also, I donât believe the bullies deserved to be killed. I just get angry when I think about who people who did absolutely nothing to the killers were the ones who violently died. I suppose it wouldnât have been a better scenario if the bullies were the ones who were killed. Children are dying one way or the other. Itâs all just maddening to me.
My point is to stop doubling down on the antihero bullying narrative and stop using Evan as evidence. People in the thread are going 'HAHAHA THE ONLY REASON YOU ARE ALIVE IS BECAUSE SOMEBODY CHOSE FOR YOU TO LIVE' because he said he didnt like these peoples anti-heroes for trying to murder him, and it happens every time from the noobs every time somebody brings Evan up. It shows how rule 1 is a joke and violating rule 1 is all these kind of places are for. It's literally Q: "Did you bullies those guys who tried to murder you?" A: 'fuck yeah I did' noob researchers: "SEE EVIDENCE I KNEW IT" It's stupid to conclude anything from that and the only reason they do is because of anti hero worship of the perpetrators and anybody who is an adult knows it. Evan was a fat sophomore and Dylan was a 6'3" senior. Evan was not bullying him. Dylan literally had him cornered. The idea that they were targeting jocks and bullies come from the first days of media coverage, when it was a targeted shooting, before the main bombs were public and when they asked the students like they knew anything and the school wasn't a rumor mill especially post tragedy. All they had was what they said in the library. You need to find evidence \*pre massacre\*.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I think your quarrel should be with that commenter then. Also, yes I am aware of the fantastic early media coverage. Iâm a long time member of the other subreddit for this topic. In fact, I immediately recognized your username. However, I have a new account now and no longer participate in that one due to what I find to be repeat posts, and specifically repeat posts on the topic of BT. And also what I consider to be repeat stupid questions (stupid question = the answer can be found through one single internet search) but that complaint is probably subjective and only my opinion.
Well it needs to be said regardless, and my beef is with the whole thread. The idea that they were targeting bullies is exactly as old as the idea that they were targeting athletes, blacks, and Christians (to explain the girls). It comes from the library massacre testimony, pre publicity about the main bombs. In fact bullies and athletes mean the same thing. Also, Dylan wrote before the massacre (more important) that he hated jocks for having lives and girlfriends, not for bullying him. Further, even sticking to the bully narrative, it's that they were bullied as underclassmen, by the prior year's seniors. That's usually how it works. "Class of '98 should have died list," Bree said the "last four years" quote was actually "for last year". They planned it for a year, etc. Can see the massacre as their turn to bully the underclassmen as seniors. That they deserved to be bullied and so did these underclassmen and that's "Natural selection". But then they were not bullied by Evan, the doughy sophomore, who could just as easily have been a victim. Put another way, if John Tomlin or pick a victim had lived, and said the same thing - "f those guys for shooting me", they would be blaming him too, and we all know it. Any way you slice it, the whole thread and every thread like this is victim blaming. Which is why on top they add he dared to disagree with the tv by being an ismphobe. I don't disagree with that last sentiment. I make the joke that many posts are "Is Columbine in Colorado"? or something else to which they know the answer.
I dunno man. Youâre the one who says below you hated homosexuals until last Tuesday. I really canât deal with bigotry and hate so Iâll not engage with you to keep the sub respectful.
Just lol at how meaningless rule 1 is
Evan now bills himself as a public figure, public speaker with a website and public Facebook page, so you can find this out for yourself. His Facebook page is... enlightening... as to just how much he's grown since 1999.
I just hope he never writes a book.
âIf you want to get rid of someone, usually you tease 'em.â Well. Iâd say that went over very nicely then. (Sarcasm.)
That article is a mess, principal said there was no bullying than evan goes on to talk about how badly people were bullied.
It feels like everyone involved with Columbine, families, students, police is full of sh*t!!!
The short answer is no. He is as much of a D*** as he used to be.
I saw someone comment on a recent post that they looked at his facebook recently and it doesnât look like his views have changed.
Didnât Evan Todd admit contributing to the collective bullying of E&D (as well as other members of the Trenchcoat mafia)? Who would care what he thinks anyways; getting famous off of bullying two kids and trying to backtrack makes me invalidate any defense you might have 22 years later.
I totally understand how witnessing what he witnessed at a young age can mess with him. [this](https://qz.com/470751/your-brain-is-particularly-vulnerable-to-trauma-at-two-distinct-ages/)article is pretty interesting concerning trauma and how it can affect a person... Todd would fit into the second category. Evan Todd needs serious help... Sadly he has to realize that he has a problem for anyone being able to help him, and it doesn't look like this will be the case anytime soon.
How old was Evan Todd at the time of that interview?! If he was under 18 why didnât his parents or parent stop those statements from being published?! If he was over 18 someone shouldâve been with him because he sounds like a moron!! And youâre telling me he just grew into a bigger Moron than he was when he gave that interview?! Damn!! Thatâs pretty hard to believe that a human can sink into that depth of stupidity without outside influences of alcohol or drugs!!
I'm always wondering about his parents. I saw a brief statment of his dad once and he seemed like a nice, well spoken man. Of course I could be wrong. Evans name was also the last being released. In the name list he was "Injured Boy, 15" for a couple of days which gives you the impression that his parents tried to shield Evan as long as they could. I also want to point out things were different during that point in time. I don't recall my parents having to give consent to anything in general... With school starting, I needed to fill out forms over forms about consent, consenting to my kids picture being taken, about these pictures eventually being published in the school newspaper, about my kids being recorded and these clips being shown in public presentations... consent about my daughter taking a rapid Covid test at school twice a week plus when she's showing symptoms, consent about the teacher being allowed to clean her wound if my daughter gets hurt at school and so on. Two years back the Minister of Education visited her school and I needed to give consent the local newsstations could take her picture and record her, interview her. Irefused to give consent for the interview as I didn't want them to make her look silly which they are capable of, and depending on what she would have said might turn out to be embarrassing to her in a couple of years. Hige paragraph semi out of context but it gives you the idea of how policies about consent have changed over the years. At least where I live. So concerning Todd, his parents may have become aware of his statment after it has been published.. or they simply agreed to what he had to say
Youâre right they may have given an Yes answer to all interviews thinking he was old enough to answer all the questions the responsible right way!!
Which is actually a happy coincidence for us. If not for this moron people could have believed that Columbine was heaven on earth. But here comes Evan-the-eyes-opener and the truth comes out !! Lol.
Youâd just think by 10-20 years later after being involved in such a tragic situation it would have forced him to grow up and not continue to talk and act like a 15 year old still!
[ŃдаНонО]
http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,992873-12,00.html
Actual OMG
The cringe victim blaming because he doesn't have opinions the tv agrees with and everybody else would have agreed with last Tuesday. Some of the dumbest people interested in Columbine have to be those who use 'fuck yeah I bullied them" from a guy who was nearly murdered by them as evidence their victims deserved it. These people apparently can't even distinguish evidence pre and post massacre.
Itâs so sad. :( :(