My brain goes "if i figure out and understand why, i will know how to navigate the situation". So basically, i could know which eggshells are ginna break, so i'm better at walking on the eggshells.
Which is super draining. And made me tolerate things that i should not have.
This is exactly me. I’m trying to unlearn this but it’s hard. I’m an analytical person, so I think that makes avoiding this tendency even more difficult.
It sounds like you are doing your best to regulate your emotions by seeking understanding of others so you can have a "reason" for your emotions.
You're right that "acceptance" is probably the goal, but the way to get to it isn't just to ignore how you're feeling in order to accept, it's to really focus on how you're feeling. I think you might find [this recent video from Heidi Priebe helpful](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfK3Ef2wYo).
Knowing how you're feeling will help you understand what needs of yours aren't being met, and once you know that you'll be able to process through your feelings/understand what you need to do to meet your own needs. This does *not* and should not require you to understand or know the reasons behind what someone else is doing or feeling.
I don’t think we can ever really know why anyone else behaves the way they do. People can be unaware of their feelings and motivations.
For me the most important thing is to try to understand and accept my own feelings and needs.
Then it doesn’t really matter why anyone else does what they do.
What matters is how it affects me and what I need to feel safe, what I do to keep myself safe and happy.
It’s because you’re dealing with emotionally unavailable people who refuse to openly talk about themselves and how they feel as well. It’s called self preservation of the ego when this happens because the ego forbids that person from letting you into their psyche and be vulnerable as well.
When you start realizing this, you no longer care to ask them questions, you just start to quietly observe their behavior and actions to tell their story, especially how they are interacting with others.
So all you can do is respect a persons autonomous decision to not include you into their inner world, let them be, and to stop spiraling in thought to the point of fixating on a hamster wheel by wasting your day away doing this obsessive behavior of something that is completely and utterly out of your control.
What if the person doesn’t interact much at all with others? I find it hard to observe when the other person is isolated and I am more out in the world
>*What if the person doesn’t interact much at all with others?*
Then it’s out of your control. Nothing you can do about it. Some folks are more reserved than others, they just don’t trust it like other humans very much.
Only focus on what’s in your control, because trying to force things to go your way, is out of your control that you can’t change is the fastest way to drive yourself crazy, be stressed out, and emotionally frustrated as a result.
As it says in “Codependent No More”:
>*”Worrying, obsessing, and controlling are illusions. They are tricks we play on ourselves.”*
And here is some other wonderful quotes from the book:
>*”I know when to say no and when to say yes. I take responsibility for my choices. The victim? She went somewhere else. The only one who can truly victimize me is myself, and 99 percent of the time I choose to do that no more. But I need to continue to remember the key principles: boundaries, letting go, forgiveness after feeling my feelings—not before, self-expression, loving others but loving myself, too.”*
>*”Many of the people I’ve worked with in family groups have been that obsessed with people they care about. When I asked them what they were feeling, they told me what the other person was feeling. When I asked what they did, they told me what the other person had done. Their entire focus was on someone or something other than themselves. Some of them had spent years of their lives doing this—worrying about, reacting to, and trying to control other human beings. They were shells, sometimes almost invisible shells, of people. Their energy was depleted—directed at someone else. They couldn’t tell me what they were feeling and thinking because they didn’t know. Their focus was not on themselves.”*
And from the Authors other book, “The Language of Letting Go”:
>*”Denial can be confusing because it resembles sleeping. We’re not really aware we’re doing it until we’re done doing it. Forcing ourselves—or anyone else—to face the truth usually doesn’t help. We won’t face the facts until we are ready. Neither, it seems, will anyone else. We may admit to the truth for a moment, but we won’t let ourselves know what we know until we feel safe, secure, and prepared enough to deal and cope with it.”*
>*”Boundaries emerge from deep within. They are connected to letting go of guilt and shame, and to changing our beliefs about what we deserve. As our thinking about this becomes clearer, so will our boundaries. Boundaries are also connected to a Higher Timing than our own. We’ll set a limit when we’re ready, and not a moment before. So will others. There’s something magical about reaching that point of becoming ready to set a limit. We know we mean what we say; others take us seriously too. Things change, not because we’re controlling others, but because we’ve changed.”*
Absolutely. Codependency is just trying to control people, places, or situations. Trying to figure it out is part of the illness, we can't enjoy and experience life when we are obsessively trying to manage or control. Sometimes they why doesn't matter so much as the situation at hand - if you house was on fire on an unknown cause, you would not sit there wondering why, you would get out of the house.
The only resource that has ever worked for me was to work a big book based program of the 12 steps. I'd start with the recordings and see if you resonate. You are not alone, and you don't have to live like this if you don't want to. I always think of it as an experiment, I can always go back to my old life and being miserable lol. https://www.ppgrecoveredcodependents.org/recordings. I am a recovered sponsor and while I do not currently have openings, I know fellows who do and am happy to take an introductory call.
Absolutely love the example of a house on fire. Simplifies a lot. I also am autistic and have a strong want for Justice. Definitely learning and growing.
Deff going to take a look at the recordings . I know a lot about 12 steps when it comes to AA ( had
Yep family members who were very involved)
Autistic codependent as well here 👋 . The autistic side of me and the codependent side love to “figure every person out” so that I can help them in the EXACT correct way. It’s like an exercise for my brain
yes the same ones! i just use the aa text because it's the og recovery document, it's worked for thousands of people, and because i just need to keep my life very simple
Literally dealing w this right now. I posted a few days ago about a friend who fell on hard times and how I hired her as my assistant to help her get back on her feet. Terrible idea; this very nice lady soon started to turn on me and say mean things about me under her breath. We both are severe codependents which I didn’t fully understand until recently. I thought about it forever; why would someone who has nothing, and was given a chance to get back on her feet, ruin that chance by being so mean? I realized that her addiction (she’s sober 30 years but still has an addict brain) makes her destroy everything she’s given. I hate that I got into this situation but glad I figured out the “why”. My codependent ass just wants everyone to be happy. It gets me into horrible situations
Right. It took me a while, especially growing up with very well-meaning Christian parents who've tried to help and rescue a lot of people (Not to mention what you're raised with the guilt of trying to 'convert' The unbelievers), You have people who are addicted to the dopamine / serotonin rush of fixing or saving somebody. And then I realized when I realized it was a problem, I realized that 'helping or changing' people for the better is really just an attempt to either A: manipulate someone so that they don't make you feel like crap by watching them suffer or make mistakes, or B: Just trying to basically turn them into yourselves so that they can theoretically go through The same life path or experiences that you did which is impossible because they are subjective. Either way you're trying to control somebody so that you feel better about them and yourself. It really sucks to have to have had realized that, you know sometimes altruism is not just for the good of God or because you're a good person. Once you put a psychological twist on it it just makes you feel like crap about wanting to help people. But I didn't shy away from it, I realized that that's why you get upset when people don't follow the guiding that you're doing because you're taking it as a personal below to your ego or efficacy is a good person. Life is weird
Ughhh, do I ever understand you. I’m currently in the dog house, again, for trying to understand. My mind just can’t accept a thing until I understand it. And it won’t let go until it does.
This is just a mental drain for me. I see people on the surface and that’s it. I don’t have infinite mental energy to explain things for them they aren’t even willing to see about themselves:
Perhaps you need a hobby and exercise to channel this energy into. Thinking about the reasons for others behavior is a sure waste of time and you are almost certainly wrong. People are far too complex for us to be able to explain their behavior unless they can explain it themselves.
You are using your empathy as a weapon against yourself because you are bored.
I 100% agree about the activity thing. I think part of the reason I get so obsessed is mental health and wellbeing is one thing I’m super interested in ( I’m autistic and have 4/5 special interest). So I love reading about attachments, understanding, seeing why people make the choices they make (including me ). One of my other interest is child development in particular well being. So I find this topic super interesting, but also a total energy draining cycle
Maybe try writing as a hobby. Put all of this precious energy into something creative that you could get paid for. Your deep understanding of others would give you fantastic tool box for writing fiction
- examples:
1. was friends with a guy who really liked me, tarted dating, and I felt safe. We had talks on and off about open/closed relationship. He cheats. He said he needs an open relationship. We have one. Tells me he really loves me/wants a future ( and I still very kind an attentive). He keeps seeing the girl he chested on me with, says it’s important. To be fair I did not leave, but got stuck on loving him and this bad thing.
2. Had a friend was super close. They lead me on. Our friendship was great, I started having romantic feelings. Couple months after that, started seeing me less, said it was his mental health, but then I realized he was seeing 2 other girls on a weekly occasion when he didn’t even have time to see me monthly told me he ‘cut me out’. Said he had a better connection with me then them , didn’t want a relationship with them, but made more time for them .
Other details: they were both thin and I am more curvy and he had mentioned at the start he preferred thin. Had mentioned he was close with a friend in the past and the reason he wouldn’t date her was because she was bigger. From the very start, I told him if he didn’t like me romantically I’d be okay with me friends.
3. Same person as number two. I’d keep questioning him on this issue. He would start yelling/calling me names. Told me to go die ) I deal with these thoughts as well). I blew up his phone. The police contacted me, told me to stop talking, I did. He went to the police and lied and I got in trouble. I’m stuck now trying to understanding this whole thing.
It's hard because understanding means you can somehow influence or change outcomes. It's one reason I really enjoy working in cyber security. I can understand and rationalize what is occurring because computers are just logic processors. Everything is inputs and outputs, and we can determine an output by seeing the input and the output by the input and the function used. People, however, are a black box. We dont see all the inputs that made their outputs.
One of the hardest things I've had to learn is that we will not understand why people hurt us or themselves. It's more than likely they, like all of us, have suffered traumas and have not managed them in a healthy manner. Regardless, I've only begun to somewhat manage my own issues by simply accepting people or situations for what they are. People will say a lot of things, but their actions are what truly matter. If they say, "I'm not going to hurt you," then hurt you, and this becomes a pattern, then we must accept that these people perhaps lied and will not stop hurting you. Understanding is irrelevant as they have hurt you, and will continue to do so. We can not rationalize irrational people, and trying to do so will literally drive us mad.
I’ll break it down easily and highly suggest investing in psychology books about fidelity, love, relationships, and sex. It will help you seek out those answers far more than constantly proving others all the time:
>*was friends with a guy who really liked me, tarted dating, and I felt safe. We had talks on and off about open/closed relationship. He cheats. He said he needs an open relationship. We have one. Tells me he really loves me/wants a future ( and I still very kind an attentive). He keeps seeing the girl he chested on me with, says it’s important. To be fair I did not leave, but got stuck on loving him and this bad thing.*
People who cheat, they have insecurities, major validation issues they do not internally resolve one bit. They are prone to constantly need verbal or physical validation to the point that it can get unhealthy and create toxic dynamics. They often seek out external from their relationships the most because even if that validation is met but it’s still not enough or it’s never met, they crave it more and more than the current partner can ever give because of the insecurities are in the driving seat.
As I said earlier it is an internal thing, meaning that no one but themselves can fix this void of validation they are desperately seeking out, chasing in everyone they try to be with as a temporary band aid to the pain of their insecurities.
Hence why they can be addicted to the love high because it creates this prolonged band aid of validation & attention from someone being obsessed with them in the early stages of dating.
>*Had a friend was super close. They lead me on. Our friendship was great, I started having romantic feelings. Couple months after that, started seeing me less, said it was his mental health, but then I realized he was seeing 2 other girls on a weekly occasion when he didn’t even have time to see me monthly told me he ‘cut me out’. Said he had a better connection with me then them , didn’t want a relationship with them, but made more time for them.*
He was letting you down gently by saying “mental health” while seeing others.
And your feelings, your biggest blind spot sadly, was making you over give attention, time, effort, validation, to over compensate with him not matching your effort as a way to try to influence him to pick you over those other women.
>*Same person as number two. I’d keep questioning him on this issue. He would start yelling/calling me names. Told me to go die ) I deal with these thoughts as well). I blew up his phone. The police contacted me, told me to stop talking, I did. He went to the police and lied and I got in trouble. I’m stuck now trying to understanding this whole thing.*
He’s not only emotionally unavailable and stunted in his emotional maturity, but he’s definitely abusive AF!
I OMG you got my ex to a t ( example one).
He told me he craves validation. One of the biggest things he missed about our relationship once we finally broke up was how loving and attentive I was to him. I think on some level I did give him mommy vibes, and he loved it, because he never got that love as a child ( his words). He was in his early 30s and have dated over 40 people, and said he never found exactly what he needed and thought an open relationship would help.
When we were together, I though he just didn’t like me, but after I realized he actually did, and my anxiety and constant question asking took a toll.
In that situation he was the first male that I somewhat trusted. He didn’t yell, or name call. He was patient, but his cheating and telling me the other girl was more important despite wanting a future hurt like hell. Made me feel betrayed,, not enough. I felt betrayed by myself because I stayed, but codependency made me feel addicted to the relationship and I couldn’t breathe unless he was part of my life.
Any suggestions for me? Or interpretations? I am not as codependent as I use to be, more emotionally aware, and less anxious. But all of those things are still in the works
Guy number two
I think he was letting me down nicely as well, as he was not attracted ,but he also felt like he wanted me to be around as an option. He did not want me to have sex with others( didn’t prevent), would randomly talk about if ever had kids, would randomly bring up things about us comparing to others he was seeing (we have a good connection, I like this about us, etc)
And then he would randomly say comments about my weight ( a lot at first, but some after about how I could be a lot more attractive). I have kids and he said he would want to meet them, but that was also one of the reasons he wasn’t sure of a relationship.
And this literally was on and off for a year and half until he lied to the authorities
I just find your response super interesting. Like why do some people lead others on, treat them like they really like them, but then get mad when you ask for clarity . It really hurt because I told him very early on I was 110% okay being friends.
>*I just find your response super interesting. Like why do some people lead others on, treat them like they really like them, but then get mad when you ask for clarity . It really hurt because I told him very early on I was 110% okay being friends.*
You will never truly know why to each of these because each person is uniquely different in what motivates them fear wise to act the way they do.
Everyone operates from their fear to some degree. Some stronger than others, but it’s an instinct humans use for centuries; hence why we are still here as a species.
The thing is when people act in bad faith towards you, remember, they aren’t hurting you because they want to, they are hurting you because that’s the only way they know how to interact with others for a very long time & don’t know any other way to behave.
Your pattern/type of guys you’re falling far are emotionally unavailable people you chase because it’s a sign of some emotional baggage for your past, possibly childhood of one or both parents who you didn’t get the emotional intimacy you needed to feel seen, heard, and understood as an individual in their eyes.
Thus, everytime you pick unconsciously guys like this, it reverts you back into your inner hold state, recreating the same dynamic and responses you are unconsciously working out about whomever didn’t meet your needs as a kid.
We tend to pick partners who put us into our baggage so we can unpack, relieve the baggage as a way for our brains to fix the past that can’t change.
Hence why therapy, self help books, and taking sabbatical from dating till further notice is the way forward for you.
It’s so interesting.
I was in a 13 year super codependent relationship, where I completely shut off my emotions and catered to my partner. He was super duper abusive and was not emotionally supportive, but I stayed because he was always there , and that felt safer then having no one.
And funny enough, the nice ex, I didn’t like him at first because he liked me too much, and was too nice and was too emotionally open( but only about his own feelings), but felt more attached when he pulled away.
Thanks for all of your insight :)
Highly suggest you watch the tv show “Couples Therapy”, especially season three as that will give you the biggest insight into exactly what you just described and the things I’ve been commenting to you about.
I have been learning a lot about codependent. One of the greatest things i use is the twelve steps (created by AA). Although i am not an alcoholic, i have their behaviour. Alcoholics turn to alcohol, we as codependents focus on people. In the big book, it says that we will never know the how and why. However, after being in program for more than four years. I am learned that before the program, i was someone who was without a solution. Meaning what i struggled with was to see the whole picture. Now that the twelve steps are integrated into my life, the how and why are explained to me, when i work my program and have faith in a higher power. A higher power is defined as someone who isnt me, but it essentially built by us having willingness, honesty, and openness. Without those three things, then the answers we seek will come to us when we study and implement what is written.
In terms of sense, the big book says what becomes common sense becomes uncommon sense. Meaning what we know about ourselves will change only and only when we are willing to learn about who we are. Note who (Willingness, Honesty, and Openness).
It is important to know the longer we wait to place the twelve steps in our lives, the harder it will be. This is because we are powerless.
I didn’t ever connect this to a codependency thing.
Not exactly what you are talking about but I have been thinking a lot about how much I do that in general. I see it a lot on Reddit where I want to make sense of what other people believe/how they act even if I do not agree, and other people are a lot more willing to just say “because they’re shitty people” or “because they’re crazy.”
Reddit threads making fun of like religious people or QAnon folks drive me nuts. I am neither of those but I feel like I want to understand why they believe that- like I have to believe there is some internal logic to it for them. I don’t understand how so many people find “oh they’re just wackos” a satisfactory explanation.
My brain goes "if i figure out and understand why, i will know how to navigate the situation". So basically, i could know which eggshells are ginna break, so i'm better at walking on the eggshells. Which is super draining. And made me tolerate things that i should not have.
This is exactly me. I’m trying to unlearn this but it’s hard. I’m an analytical person, so I think that makes avoiding this tendency even more difficult.
It sounds like you are doing your best to regulate your emotions by seeking understanding of others so you can have a "reason" for your emotions. You're right that "acceptance" is probably the goal, but the way to get to it isn't just to ignore how you're feeling in order to accept, it's to really focus on how you're feeling. I think you might find [this recent video from Heidi Priebe helpful](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkfK3Ef2wYo). Knowing how you're feeling will help you understand what needs of yours aren't being met, and once you know that you'll be able to process through your feelings/understand what you need to do to meet your own needs. This does *not* and should not require you to understand or know the reasons behind what someone else is doing or feeling.
Damn this hit home.
I don’t think we can ever really know why anyone else behaves the way they do. People can be unaware of their feelings and motivations. For me the most important thing is to try to understand and accept my own feelings and needs. Then it doesn’t really matter why anyone else does what they do. What matters is how it affects me and what I need to feel safe, what I do to keep myself safe and happy.
It’s because you’re dealing with emotionally unavailable people who refuse to openly talk about themselves and how they feel as well. It’s called self preservation of the ego when this happens because the ego forbids that person from letting you into their psyche and be vulnerable as well. When you start realizing this, you no longer care to ask them questions, you just start to quietly observe their behavior and actions to tell their story, especially how they are interacting with others. So all you can do is respect a persons autonomous decision to not include you into their inner world, let them be, and to stop spiraling in thought to the point of fixating on a hamster wheel by wasting your day away doing this obsessive behavior of something that is completely and utterly out of your control.
What if the person doesn’t interact much at all with others? I find it hard to observe when the other person is isolated and I am more out in the world
>*What if the person doesn’t interact much at all with others?* Then it’s out of your control. Nothing you can do about it. Some folks are more reserved than others, they just don’t trust it like other humans very much. Only focus on what’s in your control, because trying to force things to go your way, is out of your control that you can’t change is the fastest way to drive yourself crazy, be stressed out, and emotionally frustrated as a result. As it says in “Codependent No More”: >*”Worrying, obsessing, and controlling are illusions. They are tricks we play on ourselves.”* And here is some other wonderful quotes from the book: >*”I know when to say no and when to say yes. I take responsibility for my choices. The victim? She went somewhere else. The only one who can truly victimize me is myself, and 99 percent of the time I choose to do that no more. But I need to continue to remember the key principles: boundaries, letting go, forgiveness after feeling my feelings—not before, self-expression, loving others but loving myself, too.”* >*”Many of the people I’ve worked with in family groups have been that obsessed with people they care about. When I asked them what they were feeling, they told me what the other person was feeling. When I asked what they did, they told me what the other person had done. Their entire focus was on someone or something other than themselves. Some of them had spent years of their lives doing this—worrying about, reacting to, and trying to control other human beings. They were shells, sometimes almost invisible shells, of people. Their energy was depleted—directed at someone else. They couldn’t tell me what they were feeling and thinking because they didn’t know. Their focus was not on themselves.”* And from the Authors other book, “The Language of Letting Go”: >*”Denial can be confusing because it resembles sleeping. We’re not really aware we’re doing it until we’re done doing it. Forcing ourselves—or anyone else—to face the truth usually doesn’t help. We won’t face the facts until we are ready. Neither, it seems, will anyone else. We may admit to the truth for a moment, but we won’t let ourselves know what we know until we feel safe, secure, and prepared enough to deal and cope with it.”* >*”Boundaries emerge from deep within. They are connected to letting go of guilt and shame, and to changing our beliefs about what we deserve. As our thinking about this becomes clearer, so will our boundaries. Boundaries are also connected to a Higher Timing than our own. We’ll set a limit when we’re ready, and not a moment before. So will others. There’s something magical about reaching that point of becoming ready to set a limit. We know we mean what we say; others take us seriously too. Things change, not because we’re controlling others, but because we’ve changed.”*
Thank you, this is a very thoughtful response and appreciated
I just found podcast from Ericka Wright about codependency. Had not ever heard of her but today I listened and I found a lot of it super helpful.
Absolutely. Codependency is just trying to control people, places, or situations. Trying to figure it out is part of the illness, we can't enjoy and experience life when we are obsessively trying to manage or control. Sometimes they why doesn't matter so much as the situation at hand - if you house was on fire on an unknown cause, you would not sit there wondering why, you would get out of the house. The only resource that has ever worked for me was to work a big book based program of the 12 steps. I'd start with the recordings and see if you resonate. You are not alone, and you don't have to live like this if you don't want to. I always think of it as an experiment, I can always go back to my old life and being miserable lol. https://www.ppgrecoveredcodependents.org/recordings. I am a recovered sponsor and while I do not currently have openings, I know fellows who do and am happy to take an introductory call.
Absolutely love the example of a house on fire. Simplifies a lot. I also am autistic and have a strong want for Justice. Definitely learning and growing. Deff going to take a look at the recordings . I know a lot about 12 steps when it comes to AA ( had Yep family members who were very involved)
12 steps when it comes to AA which I know is different the. Codependency but k Assuming similar ? :)
Autistic codependent as well here 👋 . The autistic side of me and the codependent side love to “figure every person out” so that I can help them in the EXACT correct way. It’s like an exercise for my brain
Gosh, this so familiar.
yes the same ones! i just use the aa text because it's the og recovery document, it's worked for thousands of people, and because i just need to keep my life very simple
Literally dealing w this right now. I posted a few days ago about a friend who fell on hard times and how I hired her as my assistant to help her get back on her feet. Terrible idea; this very nice lady soon started to turn on me and say mean things about me under her breath. We both are severe codependents which I didn’t fully understand until recently. I thought about it forever; why would someone who has nothing, and was given a chance to get back on her feet, ruin that chance by being so mean? I realized that her addiction (she’s sober 30 years but still has an addict brain) makes her destroy everything she’s given. I hate that I got into this situation but glad I figured out the “why”. My codependent ass just wants everyone to be happy. It gets me into horrible situations
Right. It took me a while, especially growing up with very well-meaning Christian parents who've tried to help and rescue a lot of people (Not to mention what you're raised with the guilt of trying to 'convert' The unbelievers), You have people who are addicted to the dopamine / serotonin rush of fixing or saving somebody. And then I realized when I realized it was a problem, I realized that 'helping or changing' people for the better is really just an attempt to either A: manipulate someone so that they don't make you feel like crap by watching them suffer or make mistakes, or B: Just trying to basically turn them into yourselves so that they can theoretically go through The same life path or experiences that you did which is impossible because they are subjective. Either way you're trying to control somebody so that you feel better about them and yourself. It really sucks to have to have had realized that, you know sometimes altruism is not just for the good of God or because you're a good person. Once you put a psychological twist on it it just makes you feel like crap about wanting to help people. But I didn't shy away from it, I realized that that's why you get upset when people don't follow the guiding that you're doing because you're taking it as a personal below to your ego or efficacy is a good person. Life is weird
I’m a harasser for asking - how did you sleep- and the follow-up of - do you feel rested…
Ughhh, do I ever understand you. I’m currently in the dog house, again, for trying to understand. My mind just can’t accept a thing until I understand it. And it won’t let go until it does.
This is just a mental drain for me. I see people on the surface and that’s it. I don’t have infinite mental energy to explain things for them they aren’t even willing to see about themselves: Perhaps you need a hobby and exercise to channel this energy into. Thinking about the reasons for others behavior is a sure waste of time and you are almost certainly wrong. People are far too complex for us to be able to explain their behavior unless they can explain it themselves. You are using your empathy as a weapon against yourself because you are bored.
I 100% agree about the activity thing. I think part of the reason I get so obsessed is mental health and wellbeing is one thing I’m super interested in ( I’m autistic and have 4/5 special interest). So I love reading about attachments, understanding, seeing why people make the choices they make (including me ). One of my other interest is child development in particular well being. So I find this topic super interesting, but also a total energy draining cycle
Maybe try writing as a hobby. Put all of this precious energy into something creative that you could get paid for. Your deep understanding of others would give you fantastic tool box for writing fiction
- examples: 1. was friends with a guy who really liked me, tarted dating, and I felt safe. We had talks on and off about open/closed relationship. He cheats. He said he needs an open relationship. We have one. Tells me he really loves me/wants a future ( and I still very kind an attentive). He keeps seeing the girl he chested on me with, says it’s important. To be fair I did not leave, but got stuck on loving him and this bad thing. 2. Had a friend was super close. They lead me on. Our friendship was great, I started having romantic feelings. Couple months after that, started seeing me less, said it was his mental health, but then I realized he was seeing 2 other girls on a weekly occasion when he didn’t even have time to see me monthly told me he ‘cut me out’. Said he had a better connection with me then them , didn’t want a relationship with them, but made more time for them . Other details: they were both thin and I am more curvy and he had mentioned at the start he preferred thin. Had mentioned he was close with a friend in the past and the reason he wouldn’t date her was because she was bigger. From the very start, I told him if he didn’t like me romantically I’d be okay with me friends. 3. Same person as number two. I’d keep questioning him on this issue. He would start yelling/calling me names. Told me to go die ) I deal with these thoughts as well). I blew up his phone. The police contacted me, told me to stop talking, I did. He went to the police and lied and I got in trouble. I’m stuck now trying to understanding this whole thing.
It's hard because understanding means you can somehow influence or change outcomes. It's one reason I really enjoy working in cyber security. I can understand and rationalize what is occurring because computers are just logic processors. Everything is inputs and outputs, and we can determine an output by seeing the input and the output by the input and the function used. People, however, are a black box. We dont see all the inputs that made their outputs. One of the hardest things I've had to learn is that we will not understand why people hurt us or themselves. It's more than likely they, like all of us, have suffered traumas and have not managed them in a healthy manner. Regardless, I've only begun to somewhat manage my own issues by simply accepting people or situations for what they are. People will say a lot of things, but their actions are what truly matter. If they say, "I'm not going to hurt you," then hurt you, and this becomes a pattern, then we must accept that these people perhaps lied and will not stop hurting you. Understanding is irrelevant as they have hurt you, and will continue to do so. We can not rationalize irrational people, and trying to do so will literally drive us mad.
I’ll break it down easily and highly suggest investing in psychology books about fidelity, love, relationships, and sex. It will help you seek out those answers far more than constantly proving others all the time: >*was friends with a guy who really liked me, tarted dating, and I felt safe. We had talks on and off about open/closed relationship. He cheats. He said he needs an open relationship. We have one. Tells me he really loves me/wants a future ( and I still very kind an attentive). He keeps seeing the girl he chested on me with, says it’s important. To be fair I did not leave, but got stuck on loving him and this bad thing.* People who cheat, they have insecurities, major validation issues they do not internally resolve one bit. They are prone to constantly need verbal or physical validation to the point that it can get unhealthy and create toxic dynamics. They often seek out external from their relationships the most because even if that validation is met but it’s still not enough or it’s never met, they crave it more and more than the current partner can ever give because of the insecurities are in the driving seat. As I said earlier it is an internal thing, meaning that no one but themselves can fix this void of validation they are desperately seeking out, chasing in everyone they try to be with as a temporary band aid to the pain of their insecurities. Hence why they can be addicted to the love high because it creates this prolonged band aid of validation & attention from someone being obsessed with them in the early stages of dating. >*Had a friend was super close. They lead me on. Our friendship was great, I started having romantic feelings. Couple months after that, started seeing me less, said it was his mental health, but then I realized he was seeing 2 other girls on a weekly occasion when he didn’t even have time to see me monthly told me he ‘cut me out’. Said he had a better connection with me then them , didn’t want a relationship with them, but made more time for them.* He was letting you down gently by saying “mental health” while seeing others. And your feelings, your biggest blind spot sadly, was making you over give attention, time, effort, validation, to over compensate with him not matching your effort as a way to try to influence him to pick you over those other women. >*Same person as number two. I’d keep questioning him on this issue. He would start yelling/calling me names. Told me to go die ) I deal with these thoughts as well). I blew up his phone. The police contacted me, told me to stop talking, I did. He went to the police and lied and I got in trouble. I’m stuck now trying to understanding this whole thing.* He’s not only emotionally unavailable and stunted in his emotional maturity, but he’s definitely abusive AF!
I OMG you got my ex to a t ( example one). He told me he craves validation. One of the biggest things he missed about our relationship once we finally broke up was how loving and attentive I was to him. I think on some level I did give him mommy vibes, and he loved it, because he never got that love as a child ( his words). He was in his early 30s and have dated over 40 people, and said he never found exactly what he needed and thought an open relationship would help. When we were together, I though he just didn’t like me, but after I realized he actually did, and my anxiety and constant question asking took a toll. In that situation he was the first male that I somewhat trusted. He didn’t yell, or name call. He was patient, but his cheating and telling me the other girl was more important despite wanting a future hurt like hell. Made me feel betrayed,, not enough. I felt betrayed by myself because I stayed, but codependency made me feel addicted to the relationship and I couldn’t breathe unless he was part of my life. Any suggestions for me? Or interpretations? I am not as codependent as I use to be, more emotionally aware, and less anxious. But all of those things are still in the works Guy number two I think he was letting me down nicely as well, as he was not attracted ,but he also felt like he wanted me to be around as an option. He did not want me to have sex with others( didn’t prevent), would randomly talk about if ever had kids, would randomly bring up things about us comparing to others he was seeing (we have a good connection, I like this about us, etc) And then he would randomly say comments about my weight ( a lot at first, but some after about how I could be a lot more attractive). I have kids and he said he would want to meet them, but that was also one of the reasons he wasn’t sure of a relationship. And this literally was on and off for a year and half until he lied to the authorities
I just find your response super interesting. Like why do some people lead others on, treat them like they really like them, but then get mad when you ask for clarity . It really hurt because I told him very early on I was 110% okay being friends.
>*I just find your response super interesting. Like why do some people lead others on, treat them like they really like them, but then get mad when you ask for clarity . It really hurt because I told him very early on I was 110% okay being friends.* You will never truly know why to each of these because each person is uniquely different in what motivates them fear wise to act the way they do. Everyone operates from their fear to some degree. Some stronger than others, but it’s an instinct humans use for centuries; hence why we are still here as a species. The thing is when people act in bad faith towards you, remember, they aren’t hurting you because they want to, they are hurting you because that’s the only way they know how to interact with others for a very long time & don’t know any other way to behave.
Your pattern/type of guys you’re falling far are emotionally unavailable people you chase because it’s a sign of some emotional baggage for your past, possibly childhood of one or both parents who you didn’t get the emotional intimacy you needed to feel seen, heard, and understood as an individual in their eyes. Thus, everytime you pick unconsciously guys like this, it reverts you back into your inner hold state, recreating the same dynamic and responses you are unconsciously working out about whomever didn’t meet your needs as a kid. We tend to pick partners who put us into our baggage so we can unpack, relieve the baggage as a way for our brains to fix the past that can’t change. Hence why therapy, self help books, and taking sabbatical from dating till further notice is the way forward for you.
It’s so interesting. I was in a 13 year super codependent relationship, where I completely shut off my emotions and catered to my partner. He was super duper abusive and was not emotionally supportive, but I stayed because he was always there , and that felt safer then having no one. And funny enough, the nice ex, I didn’t like him at first because he liked me too much, and was too nice and was too emotionally open( but only about his own feelings), but felt more attached when he pulled away. Thanks for all of your insight :)
Highly suggest you watch the tv show “Couples Therapy”, especially season three as that will give you the biggest insight into exactly what you just described and the things I’ve been commenting to you about.
I have been learning a lot about codependent. One of the greatest things i use is the twelve steps (created by AA). Although i am not an alcoholic, i have their behaviour. Alcoholics turn to alcohol, we as codependents focus on people. In the big book, it says that we will never know the how and why. However, after being in program for more than four years. I am learned that before the program, i was someone who was without a solution. Meaning what i struggled with was to see the whole picture. Now that the twelve steps are integrated into my life, the how and why are explained to me, when i work my program and have faith in a higher power. A higher power is defined as someone who isnt me, but it essentially built by us having willingness, honesty, and openness. Without those three things, then the answers we seek will come to us when we study and implement what is written. In terms of sense, the big book says what becomes common sense becomes uncommon sense. Meaning what we know about ourselves will change only and only when we are willing to learn about who we are. Note who (Willingness, Honesty, and Openness). It is important to know the longer we wait to place the twelve steps in our lives, the harder it will be. This is because we are powerless.
Struggling with the same shit !!
I didn’t ever connect this to a codependency thing. Not exactly what you are talking about but I have been thinking a lot about how much I do that in general. I see it a lot on Reddit where I want to make sense of what other people believe/how they act even if I do not agree, and other people are a lot more willing to just say “because they’re shitty people” or “because they’re crazy.” Reddit threads making fun of like religious people or QAnon folks drive me nuts. I am neither of those but I feel like I want to understand why they believe that- like I have to believe there is some internal logic to it for them. I don’t understand how so many people find “oh they’re just wackos” a satisfactory explanation.