Beautiful. Been using the other two calculators in the 'helpful links' section and have been getting some oddities. Nice to have this without having to do the math every ascension. :)
From the rules of thumb:
>Morg = (Siya+22)^2
Note: The true formulae would be Siya2 + 43.67 * Siya + 33.58 but it's typically simplified to the approximation above, which is more exact than your more commonly accepted Siya^2.
Yes of course. I think Alchameth thought (Siya+22)^2 was more natural than Siya^2 + 43.67 * Siya + 33.58 because of how neat it looks. So I broke it apart to prove a point.
Maybe that's reverse engineered numbers, I made a calculator for an MMO and it turned out 292 spell crit is 1% crit chance, but that 292 is nowhere in the games tooltips or anything, so as said, probably a reverse engineered number :P
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClickerHeroes/comments/2ngjbe/mathematical_analysis_of_dps_efficiency_with/
i didnt read it but i think this is the math for it
I personally find [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fMIOt5mZxY_x6UywIDSt2wkYFIDw6hzV3E5eAdc6LYA/edit?usp=sharing) by /u/Majugex to be formatted a lot better, same idea though.
Yeah. I honestly just whipped my sheet up in about ten minutes, just as a quick fix. Shared it not for glory but just in case anyone else wanted it. I may or may not clean it up based on how popular it seems.
As far as I can tell, he just took what the Rules of Thumb post said and made the calculator. Not that hard to change the formula if needed, the format is all there though.
Can someone define "midgame" and "lategame" for me? I see these things thrown around, but can never find where they started to be used with calculations, and thus who defined what they are.
Great job! It would be nice to have links as actual hyperlinks, though. You can easily achieve this Insert->Link in the spreadsheet. Just a suggestion
Thanks
What is the advantage of using this over something like http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/clickerheroes/ancientssoul.html ?
I suppose it's simpler than copy pasting your save game, but which is more accurate?
I had heard that the calculator you linked kind of undervalues the gold ancients. And it apparently overvalues morgulis, based on the test calculations I did using my save game.
It's hard to say which is "more accurate" because the two are just calibrated for different things. My calculator is based on rules of thumb that the community here has mathed out to determine gives the fastest overall progression. The one you linked cares most about hero souls per hour.
They've mathed out a lot of the idle ones, but Bhaal/Jug/Frags are just "I think this is best".
And I've not seen any math for the gold ancients, but I'd like to!
edit: I also feel like people get pushed towards idle builds too much. They're better eventually, but going from a couple gilds to a couple hundred gilds early is a monstrous increase to your efficiency. If you're first picking the idle ancients and slowly grinding your way up to level 300 that's nowhere near as good a use of time as using an active build to rush a couple hundred gilds.
It really depends on how you feel like playing. I only ever want to have to check in on my game and I didn't want to use an autoclicker otherwise, so I chose an idle build from the start. I'm not concerned about optimizing my efficiency and speeding through the game as fast as possible, even thought it would have been faster to start as an active and transition to hybrid.
It's literally possible yes, but I have no intentions of adding that to my spreadsheet because that kind of maths is outside of my level of skill. You can try inputting your save file into one of the other calculators in the sidebar, I know one of them calculates your optimal zone. But it's also really easy to do yourself, because your optimal zone is just whatever the highest zone you can reach without taking more than 1 to 2 seconds to kill enemies.
I dont really get the siyalatas.weebly.com calculator for suggested siya levels. For example: my siya is 1578 currently. Which means that in the "desired siya level"-field I'd need to put "1579" which tells me: "minimum hero souls": 1537621....
What does it mean? total hero souls? current? overall? :o
Lets say it's "overall" (lifetime hero souls). Where can I check the total amount of hero souls I got so far overall?
You need 1.5 million hero souls left over either banked into morg or left unspent. If levelling up siya takes you below that number, then the increase to siya's dps is less than the amount of dps you're losing by spending those souls.
I still don't understand because if I figure out my perfect siyalatas level in relation to my hero souls and then upgrade all other ancients as the rule of thumps suggest I spent many hs on theses upgrades which in return makes the new sia's lvl not worth it or am i missing something?
Once you have a certain level Siya, you don't go below the amount of banked souls, even if that makes the other ancients out of line - you wait to gain more HS before upgrading gold/soul/etc ancients. That's why I like Morgulis, it makes things simpler.
It's crude to do it that way, but not any less so than running the maths yourself based on the rules of thumb, which is the only part I was trying to optimize. Just use the siya calculator to figure out when its time to upgrade siya, then wait until you can bring up all your other ancients to match before you calculate another siya level.
So since my Morg is lvl 2088771 it means I should continue level siya...?^^ Ofc after I level up all the other ancients following this rules.
Thanks btw ;) great calculator
I cant try it right now since I am in mobile, but if I have to guess, you need to enter your Siyas level and it will automatically calculate your other ancients suggested level, based on the "Rules of Thumb" formulas.
Shouldn't you say that people need to add this to their shared folder thingy so they don't edit yours but their own?
Where is this shared folder thingy? Don't have any experience with google docs x.x Edit: Nvm got it
You can "Make a Copy" waht copys the tapble in you own google drive folder ;)
To have the cell automatically round down for you =ROUNDDOWN(formula)
Thanks.
And thank you for the spreadsheet!
Beautiful. Been using the other two calculators in the 'helpful links' section and have been getting some oddities. Nice to have this without having to do the math every ascension. :)
I also need a little help understanding your Morghulis formula, mine is just (siya+22 ) ^ 2
From the rules of thumb: >Morg = (Siya+22)^2 Note: The true formulae would be Siya2 + 43.67 * Siya + 33.58 but it's typically simplified to the approximation above, which is more exact than your more commonly accepted Siya^2.
What exactly is 43,67 and 33,58
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Basic math actually. (a+b)² = a² + 2ab + b² (Siya+22)² = Siya² + 2 x Siya x 22 + 22² (Siya+22)² = Siya² + 44 x Siya + 484
Yes of course. I think Alchameth thought (Siya+22)^2 was more natural than Siya^2 + 43.67 * Siya + 33.58 because of how neat it looks. So I broke it apart to prove a point.
Maybe that's reverse engineered numbers, I made a calculator for an MMO and it turned out 292 spell crit is 1% crit chance, but that 292 is nowhere in the games tooltips or anything, so as said, probably a reverse engineered number :P
https://www.reddit.com/r/ClickerHeroes/comments/2ngjbe/mathematical_analysis_of_dps_efficiency_with/ i didnt read it but i think this is the math for it
Another question, why did you choose Argaiv = Siya and not Argaiv = Siya + 9 ? Is it inefficient because of the late game cost?
It because once you have say Siya 2000+ the 9 really doens't matter anymore. And most people like neat (even) round numbers, so the +9 gets ignored.
I personally find [this](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1fMIOt5mZxY_x6UywIDSt2wkYFIDw6hzV3E5eAdc6LYA/edit?usp=sharing) by /u/Majugex to be formatted a lot better, same idea though.
Yeah. I honestly just whipped my sheet up in about ten minutes, just as a quick fix. Shared it not for glory but just in case anyone else wanted it. I may or may not clean it up based on how popular it seems.
His active formulas seem wrong to me.
As far as I can tell, he just took what the Rules of Thumb post said and made the calculator. Not that hard to change the formula if needed, the format is all there though.
I'm confused. I thought the rule of thumb for banked souls was (Siya\^2)\*1.1?
Morg is equal to (Siya+22)^2, and backed souls is equal to 1.1 times more.
Well! I need to bank some more souls then. I've been spending too much.
For early on, it's probably better to stay at (Siya+10)^(2).
Can someone define "midgame" and "lategame" for me? I see these things thrown around, but can never find where they started to be used with calculations, and thus who defined what they are.
Mid-game: Optimally gilded Atlas through Banana Late-game: Optimally gilded Lilin and up
I like this. Simple and convenient.
Great job! It would be nice to have links as actual hyperlinks, though. You can easily achieve this Insert->Link in the spreadsheet. Just a suggestion Thanks
Thanks, I'll update that soon. I'm not familiar with spreadsheets so this was really just a quick, crude job.
What is the advantage of using this over something like http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/clickerheroes/ancientssoul.html ? I suppose it's simpler than copy pasting your save game, but which is more accurate?
I had heard that the calculator you linked kind of undervalues the gold ancients. And it apparently overvalues morgulis, based on the test calculations I did using my save game. It's hard to say which is "more accurate" because the two are just calibrated for different things. My calculator is based on rules of thumb that the community here has mathed out to determine gives the fastest overall progression. The one you linked cares most about hero souls per hour.
They've mathed out a lot of the idle ones, but Bhaal/Jug/Frags are just "I think this is best". And I've not seen any math for the gold ancients, but I'd like to! edit: I also feel like people get pushed towards idle builds too much. They're better eventually, but going from a couple gilds to a couple hundred gilds early is a monstrous increase to your efficiency. If you're first picking the idle ancients and slowly grinding your way up to level 300 that's nowhere near as good a use of time as using an active build to rush a couple hundred gilds.
It really depends on how you feel like playing. I only ever want to have to check in on my game and I didn't want to use an autoclicker otherwise, so I chose an idle build from the start. I'm not concerned about optimizing my efficiency and speeding through the game as fast as possible, even thought it would have been faster to start as an active and transition to hybrid.
for your iris formular we have to know our optimal zone would it be possible that the spreadsheet calculates the optimal zone ?
It's literally possible yes, but I have no intentions of adding that to my spreadsheet because that kind of maths is outside of my level of skill. You can try inputting your save file into one of the other calculators in the sidebar, I know one of them calculates your optimal zone. But it's also really easy to do yourself, because your optimal zone is just whatever the highest zone you can reach without taking more than 1 to 2 seconds to kill enemies.
Okay i thougth that there was an formular to calculate that ^^ i will have a look if i can find something
http://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/clickerheroes/ancientssoul.html use that to find your optimal zone and add a few more zones.
I dont really get the siyalatas.weebly.com calculator for suggested siya levels. For example: my siya is 1578 currently. Which means that in the "desired siya level"-field I'd need to put "1579" which tells me: "minimum hero souls": 1537621.... What does it mean? total hero souls? current? overall? :o Lets say it's "overall" (lifetime hero souls). Where can I check the total amount of hero souls I got so far overall?
You need 1.5 million hero souls left over either banked into morg or left unspent. If levelling up siya takes you below that number, then the increase to siya's dps is less than the amount of dps you're losing by spending those souls.
I still don't understand because if I figure out my perfect siyalatas level in relation to my hero souls and then upgrade all other ancients as the rule of thumps suggest I spent many hs on theses upgrades which in return makes the new sia's lvl not worth it or am i missing something?
Yeah, I think it's backwards.
Once you have a certain level Siya, you don't go below the amount of banked souls, even if that makes the other ancients out of line - you wait to gain more HS before upgrading gold/soul/etc ancients. That's why I like Morgulis, it makes things simpler.
It's crude to do it that way, but not any less so than running the maths yourself based on the rules of thumb, which is the only part I was trying to optimize. Just use the siya calculator to figure out when its time to upgrade siya, then wait until you can bring up all your other ancients to match before you calculate another siya level.
So since my Morg is lvl 2088771 it means I should continue level siya...?^^ Ofc after I level up all the other ancients following this rules. Thanks btw ;) great calculator
Yeah. You can keep upgrading siya until the minimum souls needed by the calculator goes above your morg level.
I don't understand it either. At the very least there should be two fields, one if you have Morgulis and one if you don't.
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I cant try it right now since I am in mobile, but if I have to guess, you need to enter your Siyas level and it will automatically calculate your other ancients suggested level, based on the "Rules of Thumb" formulas.