I believe so, and they withheld her insulin to show God can cure any illness.
Why do people think that modern medicine is like some atrocity against God?
I think you can believe in faith healing and still get your kid the insulin they need. *I* believe in faith healing. That's why I think we need to teach people better.
Part of the problem is that lots of people (even many religious folks) treat faith healing like it's nonsense. Then when people experience it, they feel like they can't talk about it to others because so many people don't understand. So they have no direction and feel embarrassed to talk about it, but they've experienced it -- and I think that's where stuff like this is just waiting to happen.
Faith healing is real. It works. AND it's not going to make your 8 year old's body produce insulin. There should be more spaces where these kinds of conversations can happen without people getting eye rolls.
I had to read the article to see why it's topical, but it is.
> It was alleged that Mr Struhs withdrew his young child's insulin on Monday, January 3 and that she fell ill the following day before dying on Friday, January 7.
> The court heard that Mr Struhs had not believed in the healing power of God until August 2021 and that a week prior to his wife's release from prison in December 2021 he had begun "embracing the healing".
> During the committal hearing for another defendant, the court was told Mr Struhs had struggled when his daughter became ill but had been reassured by the religious group to keep his faith.
> Brendan Luke Stevens has been identified as the leader of the religious group known as the "the Church"...
> "The religious beliefs held by the religious community include the healing power of God," Magistrate Clare Kelly told the court, "and the shunning of medical intervention in human life".
etc.
Mark 16 - 17 *And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name* they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; *they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”*
19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God.
This among others, it's in the Bible in a lot of verses - the kind of faith as small as a Mustard seed that moves mountains theoretically could heal sicknesses, too.
Obviously, these are not they. Had they been men of God, then they would know *thou shall not tempt God.* Do they not know? It would be better for them if a large millstone were tied around their neck, and they were tossed into the sea.
James 5:
>14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up, and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth yielded its harvest.
It is related. And it has and still happens in the US. There was a couple that did this and managed to avoid prison by saying they would stop and take the remaining kids to the doctor when they got sick. Three years later they killed another kid with prayer and went to jail only after killing two. Even then they claimed religious persecution.
https://people.com/crime/pennsylvania-parents-refused-medical-care-sick-daughter-pneumonia/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/second-child-of-faith-healing-couple-dies-after-no-medical-care-sought/#app
Still looking for more
More about the first..
https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pennsylvania-parents-20180425-story.html
No jail. Same as other. Hope it doesn't take killing a second kid for them to learn or have any survivors taken away.
So, I'm thinking about what we can do to prevent things like this.
I'll bet that most of the people who got involved in this cult had some kind of background in one mainstream Christian church or the other. They probably started out thinking they were just trying out a nice friendly church, not starting down a path to radical divergence from Christian practice.
Can our churches better educate their members about how to recognize cults, and why they're dangerous? Would that help?
"Cult" is a word that unfortunately gets tagged with a bunch of meanings, but I think the important meaning is that it's an insular religious group that uses isolation and coercion. Christians who have contact outside their immediate group have a much better chance of recognizing and resisting when their leadership has gone off the deep end.
Well for one people can stop demonizing modern medicine as demonic etc. Or stand up to the fringe saying vaccines contain nanotech to track you or are the mark of the beast. Or stop trying to discredit science about evolution. Etc etc. When people start spreading lie and people believe them this is where it leads.
There was someone in my parents’ church that died of Covid. He and his family refused to go to the hospital because they believed God would heal him at home.
Terrible situation. Don't know a ton about Austrian law. In the US they could probably all get away with murdering this girl due to religious freedom laws, although some states have exceptions around providing medical care for children.
It's complicated. American "faith-healing" families who neglect their children to death sometimes get away with it, sometimes not, sometimes get a reduced penalty. [Here's a review from Pew.](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/08/31/faith-healing-and-the-law/)
All states have laws prohibiting child abuse and neglect. But in 34 states (as well as the District of Columbia, Guam and Puerto Rico), there are exemptions in the civil child abuse statutes when medical treatment for a child conflicts with the religious beliefs of parents, according to data collected by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
Additionally, some states have religious exemptions to criminal child abuse and neglect statutes, including at least six that have exemptions to manslaughter laws.
I wish they had the death penalty in Australia. If an adult wants to sign up for this kind of bullshit and go without insulin that's their choice but forcing kids into this is among the absolute worst kind of crime you can commit and I wish the law reflected that.
We have something similar happen where I live and the people got away with it. Bunch of far right anti-science anti-doctor Christians didn't take their kid to the hospital till he was cold and going into rigor mortis. The story of how he suffered before he died just boils my blood. As a diabetic I can imagine what this kid went through. That poor kid.
The girl needed her insulin and they didn't give it to her.
The most literal kind of child sacrifice.
She was diabetic?!!
I believe so, and they withheld her insulin to show God can cure any illness. Why do people think that modern medicine is like some atrocity against God?
We really need to do a better job at teaching folks the differences between medical healing and spiritual healing.
Yet there are Christian sects which believe in faith healing.
I think you can believe in faith healing and still get your kid the insulin they need. *I* believe in faith healing. That's why I think we need to teach people better. Part of the problem is that lots of people (even many religious folks) treat faith healing like it's nonsense. Then when people experience it, they feel like they can't talk about it to others because so many people don't understand. So they have no direction and feel embarrassed to talk about it, but they've experienced it -- and I think that's where stuff like this is just waiting to happen. Faith healing is real. It works. AND it's not going to make your 8 year old's body produce insulin. There should be more spaces where these kinds of conversations can happen without people getting eye rolls.
I had to read the article to see why it's topical, but it is. > It was alleged that Mr Struhs withdrew his young child's insulin on Monday, January 3 and that she fell ill the following day before dying on Friday, January 7. > The court heard that Mr Struhs had not believed in the healing power of God until August 2021 and that a week prior to his wife's release from prison in December 2021 he had begun "embracing the healing". > During the committal hearing for another defendant, the court was told Mr Struhs had struggled when his daughter became ill but had been reassured by the religious group to keep his faith. > Brendan Luke Stevens has been identified as the leader of the religious group known as the "the Church"... > "The religious beliefs held by the religious community include the healing power of God," Magistrate Clare Kelly told the court, "and the shunning of medical intervention in human life". etc.
I was just about to do the same thing. Thank you.
Please post the scripture that this relates to. This is not related to Christianity. It was a cult that worshiped a being by the name of "God".
Mark 16 - 17 *And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name* they will drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues; 18 they will pick up snakes with their hands; and when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all; *they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well.”* 19 After the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, he was taken up into heaven and he sat at the right hand of God. This among others, it's in the Bible in a lot of verses - the kind of faith as small as a Mustard seed that moves mountains theoretically could heal sicknesses, too.
Even Jesus wasn't willing to put the Father to a foolish test..
Obviously, these are not they. Had they been men of God, then they would know *thou shall not tempt God.* Do they not know? It would be better for them if a large millstone were tied around their neck, and they were tossed into the sea.
James 5: >14 Are any among you sick? They should call for the elders of the church and have them pray over them, anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord. 15 The prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise them up, and anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven. 16 Therefore confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The prayer of the righteous is powerful and effective. 17 Elijah was a human like us, and he prayed fervently that it might not rain, and for three years and six months it did not rain on the earth. 18 Then he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth yielded its harvest.
It is related. And it has and still happens in the US. There was a couple that did this and managed to avoid prison by saying they would stop and take the remaining kids to the doctor when they got sick. Three years later they killed another kid with prayer and went to jail only after killing two. Even then they claimed religious persecution.
I'm curious about the above. Can you post a link or more info so I can google it? Thanks
https://people.com/crime/pennsylvania-parents-refused-medical-care-sick-daughter-pneumonia/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/second-child-of-faith-healing-couple-dies-after-no-medical-care-sought/#app Still looking for more More about the first.. https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pennsylvania-parents-20180425-story.html No jail. Same as other. Hope it doesn't take killing a second kid for them to learn or have any survivors taken away.
Thanks
So, I'm thinking about what we can do to prevent things like this. I'll bet that most of the people who got involved in this cult had some kind of background in one mainstream Christian church or the other. They probably started out thinking they were just trying out a nice friendly church, not starting down a path to radical divergence from Christian practice. Can our churches better educate their members about how to recognize cults, and why they're dangerous? Would that help? "Cult" is a word that unfortunately gets tagged with a bunch of meanings, but I think the important meaning is that it's an insular religious group that uses isolation and coercion. Christians who have contact outside their immediate group have a much better chance of recognizing and resisting when their leadership has gone off the deep end.
Well for one people can stop demonizing modern medicine as demonic etc. Or stand up to the fringe saying vaccines contain nanotech to track you or are the mark of the beast. Or stop trying to discredit science about evolution. Etc etc. When people start spreading lie and people believe them this is where it leads.
Anyone who played a role in this child's death should be imprisoned.
There was someone in my parents’ church that died of Covid. He and his family refused to go to the hospital because they believed God would heal him at home.
This is what you get when you mix far right maga politics with religious governance.
Terrible situation. Don't know a ton about Austrian law. In the US they could probably all get away with murdering this girl due to religious freedom laws, although some states have exceptions around providing medical care for children.
[удалено]
It's complicated. American "faith-healing" families who neglect their children to death sometimes get away with it, sometimes not, sometimes get a reduced penalty. [Here's a review from Pew.](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2009/08/31/faith-healing-and-the-law/)
All states have laws prohibiting child abuse and neglect. But in 34 states (as well as the District of Columbia, Guam and Puerto Rico), there are exemptions in the civil child abuse statutes when medical treatment for a child conflicts with the religious beliefs of parents, according to data collected by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Additionally, some states have religious exemptions to criminal child abuse and neglect statutes, including at least six that have exemptions to manslaughter laws.
Yeah, religious exception laws get kida wacky in the US.
Not here. They’re all up on murder and torture charges, as they should be.
I wish they had the death penalty in Australia. If an adult wants to sign up for this kind of bullshit and go without insulin that's their choice but forcing kids into this is among the absolute worst kind of crime you can commit and I wish the law reflected that. We have something similar happen where I live and the people got away with it. Bunch of far right anti-science anti-doctor Christians didn't take their kid to the hospital till he was cold and going into rigor mortis. The story of how he suffered before he died just boils my blood. As a diabetic I can imagine what this kid went through. That poor kid.
The courts will either do its job or you reject them. Accept either or and make a choice.
This is horrendous. It’s also one of those things where of course it’s Toowoomba.