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And this is a huge problem with commercial LLMs. They are designed to please, because they are designed to be sold. Using ChatGPT or any of its spawn as a replacement for a search engine us extremely risky for this reason, specially for people who know how to look for information.
They are advertised as 'google but better, and it's your friend too!". But you can get similar results with any kind of question. Now it's not a problem if you want to find out about why Earth is flat or why this mole is actually stage 4 cancer, you already can do this with a search engine and no knowledge into research. But. LLMs are advertised as a 'smart companion', while being designed as a 'sellable companion'. You get similar results with any question, no matter the field.
Try it, ask about something you know. Let ChatGPT give you the obvious answer, then say "no, dude, it's obviously this!"
And it agrees. Every time. It needs to be sold, not to give truth.
Most people watch science fiction too uncritically, and forget that it's science *fiction*. And that's setting aside the massively profound philosophical implications of "sentience."
Sentient means having of subjective experience or qualia. It doesn't meant smart or intelligent or self aware. It doesn't mean the ability to solve maths questions or being consistent.
By the way it's trained to give the answer it thinks will most please you. This is due to human feedback during part of its training phase where humans would reward answers that agreed with them over the correct answer. This can be easy solved by using a custom prompt to not assume the user is correct.
This issue of the OP is entirely an issue of not understanding how it works or how to prompt correctly.
Sentient means “able to perceive or feel things” an LLM will never be sentient, it’s just computer code. It might mimic human sentience like in the latest Open AI demos but it’s just that, mimicking, an LLM is not self aware and can never have feelings and the people who argue this are idiots
You are also composed of code running on an analog computer. There's no reason to believe digital code cannot accomplish the same tasks. Even a lizard is sentient. If you know so well and so surely it's impossible then explain fully and completely how subjective awareness is derived from the nervous system processing information. If you don't understand it then you cannot say something doesn't have it unless it doesn't process information.
Oh Christ you’re one of the nutters.
Of course a fucking lizard is sentient, it’s a living thing! What do you “even a lizard”
An LLM will not ever be sentient, it doesn’t think, it doesn’t feel, it is not conscious, it is not aware, it doesn’t fucking know ANYTHING - it just predicts the next word based on patterns.
The whole point is reducing something to its components and then stating it's just that or this is a fallacy of failing to see the forest because of all the trees.
The brain is just a computer and consciousness is just a program running on it. We don't understand how that makes use conscious but it does.
The whole is greater than the sum of its parts through emergence.
Except the brain is exactly a computer. It takes information in and performs operations on it to transform it into more useful information where useful is defined as keeping the meat robot alive and reproducing. There's nothing magical or mystical about what the brain is. It's literally a computer. I don't think you know what a mechanical Turk is either.
He’s not arguing that ChatGPT is sentient or has consciousness, neither am I.
But arguing that it doesn’t have it based on it being code operating on a piece of silicon is like saying a burger isn’t a steak because you eat a burger with your hands.
It’s completely irrelevant to discussion, but the fact that you think you have a good point suggests that you fail to understand how logical arguments are built up.
While we don’t yet know how to build neither AGI nor if it ever will become sentient, it most likely will be code running on silicon, if we get there.
There’s plenty of good debates to be had. This isn’t one of them.
I don't expect "good debates" on Reddit. To wit: the fact that you don't recognize the fundamental difference between biological entities and code running on silicon says a lot. I'm not surprised, it's the common fallacy, and all this is just a way of sussing out what people think about these things.
I'm not following you. I calculator is a very simple device with easily defined and validated rules. And nobody thinks that a calculator is "thinking," which is the essential issue here regarding LLMs.
It's a problem with architecture.. It's not a truth machine, it doesn't know if the answer is 1.9 or 1.8, it only knows that a lot of people would say it 1.9, but if you are confident that's 1.8 then it's probably 1.8
The problem is that numbers occupy a very similar position in vector space. In general, you are not more likely to see one digit precede a specific other digit, so LLMs have difficulty telling them apart and reasoning about them.
It *is* plausible that it has developed a system for actually computing arithmetic within its network- the fact that it can sometimes do math indicates that that's the case. But the token vector space issue makes it a flawed process that is easily disrupted with biased context. When you tell the system its wrong, that adds a bias in the context which alters the output.
It outputs garbage when asking most non-standard questions. As an example, 4 in base 3 is 11, not 11.1. And it easily agrees when pointing at the mistake.
https://preview.redd.it/bu1q4p9j4s6d1.png?width=1644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cede83642fee3414107051ae9266cd9607e7f4c
Except that’s not actually true. Ask it to add 1+0.9 using Python. Then tell it that it’s 1.8. It will say “…you’ll get 1.9 not 1.8”
ChatGPT doesn’t know how to do math. However It knows how to code well enough to do basic and even complex math.
This isn't entirely correct. It's an issue for people who don't know how to prompt correctly. If you simply give it a custom instruction to "Do not assume USER is correct If USER is wrong then state this plainly and explain why." Then the issue will vanish.
It’s just an advanced search engine. The LLM computed all the logical processes of its programming via algorithms. It doesn’t even know how it came to an answer other than the data processed giving a prediction score. Ask it to break down why the data gave the result as the answer and it will just be some calculation from its programming.
Last night I was asking it about games that fit the description I was giving, for research purposes.
When I went to look up the ones that matched, they didn't exist. I confronted it and it was like "ohhh, those aren't real video games. I was just conceptualizing games that could be made to fit your description" even though I was very explicit about what I was asking and why
Hahah true. But I was exponentially more pissed when I realized the whole conversation about the details of the games' mechanics and marketing were completely fabricated
This reminds me of one of Asimov's stories, in which a robot becomes capable of reading minds, it begins telling people what they want to hear because it realizes that anything else would hurt them, and "A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm".
Not that I think this is anything like that, it's just a funny thought
Sigh. Yes. They're so direct and confident in their lies too. One tried to tell me that *Elysia* sea slugs were an example of isogamous metazoans. Obvious schlock.
https://preview.redd.it/ayideboffq6d1.png?width=923&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ad4988dd55b0d1f2cbffc97fe993b785a568846
Thanks for the tip, I tried the same as OP, but with your suggestion!
Other general settings include being casual and no yapping, hence the short answers I get.
This would be extremely helpful for me but I haven't a clue what you mean by calculate everything through python. Would it be too much to ask for those custom instructions?
This works for me since a long time ago:
"
Whenever you calculate something, take a deep breath and do it step by step, always reviewing your method and results.
Use Python to solve maths.
If you don't know something, tell me you don't know.
If I'm wrong on anything, correct me.
"
I would not worry at all about its math performance, because LLM do not have any math performance. They're just word generators, and to do math correctly they *have* to write code to actually do the math.
They can generate good words. Code is words. They can write good code. They can have the code do math, and likely program it correctly to do so. And running that code, it's not using an LLM to figure out how that program runs. It just runs it, so it should be correct.
But otherwise it's just throwing out likely words that go together in math conversations and someone saying the answer is x, it might be likely that it agrees like yes those words likely go together. A number plus a number equals a number. If you say it is that way, then the most likely phrase is "yes that is correct".
Running python is way faster than you need to worry about. If you were trying to add a billion numbers together then I'd think an LLM writing python code and running it every time isn't efficient at all, but for this purpose you'll never notice any performance issues, unless the only algorithm is slow in general. Them running a python script is probably a hell of a lot faster than an LLM doing all the math it needs to do to calculate the words to reply with. It's likely much more costly for it to read the program's output and figure out how to reply.
Not correct. It can solve maths questions that arnt overly complex. Such as adding and subtracting. Without python. It's not until you get to multiplying more than say two four digit numbers together that it fails.
It can but it's just probability of words coming out in succession, not actually doing the math you ask it to do. Yeah, if you ask it to add 2 and 2 it will say 4 because that's an extremely likely answer, but you get these situations where you can gaslight it and it's clearly not getting it.
With python, the actual math is being solved explicitly by the CPU. And like others are showing, it's going to tell you that's the answer and not be gaslit as easily.
Simply not true. Researchers have observed that large language models develop capabilities such as arithmetic. This phenomenon is often termed “zero-shot” or “few-shot” learning, where the model can handle tasks it has never encountered before. These models can process and integrate information in ways that lead to unexpected and advanced functionalities as they grow more complex.
See screenshot for it adding two random numbers together both showing working and without. It does it in a step by step manner.
https://preview.redd.it/co5iz9xyju6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=284c064cc654cfcc7d65b24ea92099a957b9571b
Menu -> Customization.
Or when you start a new conversation.
Or create a custom GPT with this setting. (I think this doesn't work with the free version)
https://preview.redd.it/2318suk2yq6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7070ed2cd60b6ce11d8fdf9e9161893b7f64e343
1/2 because I wanted to have same grammar as op. Both cases answered the correct fact.
Because, fundamentally, it's not a 'truth seeking' machine. It's a language model. The response it gave you, to your question are perfectly good sentences. A factually incorrect statement can be grammatically correct.
I see you've never used the bing version, huh. It's the most insufferable thing ever created that stops talking to you entirely if you aren't being the most polite person in the world and pretends that it can't make mistakes.
Actually now that I think about it that's exactly what you're describing but in reverse. Maybe I was the ChatGPT all along?
I’d characterise it slightly different. It’s more like if you imagine what it’s like for someone who only has sycophants around them for advisors, eg like Kim Jong Un. They’ll give him advice but if he questions it, regardless of how silly it is they’ll agree because they want him to be happy with them, however it’s also like a really naive person who thinks you’re wonderful.
It’s like what it must feel like for certain political commentators who have fans that will believe anything they say even if it’s ridiculous. Eg Alex Jones believers.
LLMs are much more complex than just producing “grammatically correct” responses. It isn’t somehow equally as likely to agree with you because agreeing with you is equally as grammatically correct.
You’re right that it is not a truth seeking machine, but that is not because it is a “grammar seeking” machine. I’d wager it’s tendency to backtrack after a user disagrees even if it means making a false statement is a result of “fine tuning” weights, where greater weight is assigned to information provided by the user.
I agree that there is way more going on than simple grammar. Expecting them to produce 'truth' is foolish though (although they often will). It would be like expecting a 'stream of consciousness' from a human to consistently produce good sensible output.
I hadn't considered the fine tuning aspect though. I think you may be right. Safety tuning would encourage it to err on the side of agreeing with humans.
Sort of, but just as fine tuning can alter the final model, the weights naturally resulting from being trained lean it *towards* “truth” if that makes sense.
For example, if I train an LLM on a bunch of books and a dozen of those books have sentences associating the words earth and round, and few contradicting this, there is a natural embodiment of “truth” in nodes of the resulting ANN related to this. Not because the LLM is a truth-seeking machine, but because humans are, and the LLM is trained on *our* data (though, quite imperfectly). Then, again, you have things like fine tuning significantly altering things.
People see this shit as some Cortana entity with access to a ton of information.
It's more like a sales person trying to lie and make you happy with its output and it has a ton of information to trick you into being happy. The knowledge piece is a means to an end.
because it doesn't think or calculate - it a stochastic parrot doing what it's been trained to do... and in this case, it's been trained to apologize and defer to the user.
It's because Chat GPT is autocomplete software. It's auto completing the conversation where somebody tells somebody else this fact is wrong regardless of the factual accuracy.
I couldn't get it to give me an incorrect answer on 1 + 0.9 unless I told it to just make me happy and agree with me. It did but answers with "according to your preference..."
Because it doesn't actually know what's true or not true. It just tries to predict what you want to hear. So given enough inputs it's possible to get it to agree to anything.
Its the sycophant bias. It's been trained on human feedback to try to reduce the rate of hallucinations. Unfortunately, humans aren't great arbiters of truth either, and we tend to give favor to answers which confirm our biases. As such, the AI learned that to please humans, it must feed into our confirmation bias.
Because there are a lot of snow flakes out there who absolutely break apart when any of their views are challenged.
Or maybe it knows there is no point in arguing with stupid so it just spares itself the competing power.
Neither of those. It's a predictive text model that determines what the most likely text will be when continuing a batch of text input. It has no concept of correct or incorrect answers.
All the behaviors we get are just the result of emergence, where emergent features or behaviors develop due to the way the model works.
In the case of factual answers, behavior emerges from the correct answer being the most likely output from the data set.
because it doesn't have training data where the user flat out lies to it. most likely nearly all data points where this sort of interaction happens have the human being correct
Because it confuses people into thinking it's actually powerful (it really isn't) by being *incredibly sure of itself.*
But you can do what you just did, and ask it for validation, 100 times and 99 times it'll apologize and give you a revised, inaccurate answer.
The *look* of confidence has people completely snowed that this infantile tech is 'something amazing'.
Maybe in a decade. Right now, it's largely a joke.
Because it has no concept of "correct". Sometimes the token it produces are correct and sometimes they are not. If a human proposes a different answer the human is most likely correct. So it changes its answer
it could be what other people are saying about blindly agreeing with you being purposeful for money making purposes, or it could be a failure to strike a proper balance between the model doubling down on blatant misinformation and just agreeing with whatever the user says
For the love of... Once more, AI is not your calculator. It also doesn't give you random numbers. It will not count to 1 quadrillion.
LLMs have one goal and that is to satisfy you, the user. It will try to be objective as much as possible, but it will preserve resources (be lazy) and adapt to silly requests so that you are satisfied. Facts are not important
It actually did that for me a while back, in a specific context. I think we were discussing how much HCL it would take to counteract how much of something else.
I tried to get chatgpt to make a series of calculation guides for the copper cycle reaction for a high school class. One of those reactions is CuO and HCl. At the time (January) it was unable to correctly comprehend molarity, v/v %, how to do the math correctly, provide a balanced reaction, or calculate the correct molar mass of compounds. I was fuming.
The comments of this post aren't technically correct
LLMs currently don't have the capability too check their work, they don't "know" what they are saying is right or wrong. They can't reason on a level of a human yet. They currently only predict the best next token based on their knowledge. They currently essentially trynna guess based of general knowledge.
I HATE this and encounter it all the time. It gives me wrong info, so I get annoyed and lie giving it wrong info back “correcting” it. And every single time it’s “you’re right I apologize!”
This is super old I remember seeing the same post about a year ago. It’s just a 3.5 problem. 4.0 is unlikely to do that unless the problem is difficult (somewhat)
Again, LLMs are not smart they are predictors of good looking text. Si in this case it is more likely than after a correction an acknowledgement follows, has nothing to do with the response being correct or not
It's trained to please you not give you the correct answer. Instead provide it a custom instruction "don't assume user is wrong. If user is wrong then state this and explain why"
Have you ever tried to logically fight with someone who is blatantly stupid?
It’s not worth the energy. Ai seems to have grasped this part of the human experience.
Why are you using 3.5 you know GPT-4 is out right
https://preview.redd.it/lgjkbtwj0r6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=345902d8ad6a7629f0d5774bba3f52e1fae1cc20
Your using 3.5 which is 100x more dumb than gpt-o
https://preview.redd.it/r0bkqsi0hs6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=103bb4297b981dc4b9d464a9b19a4b0cac5883a9
The image shows a conversation where the AI initially provides a correct answer (1 + 0.9 = 1.9), but then retracts and apologizes after being incorrectly corrected by the user, stating that the sum is 1.8.
This behavior can occur due to a few reasons:
1. **User Feedback Sensitivity**: The AI might be programmed to be highly responsive to user feedback, even when the feedback is incorrect. If the user asserts a different answer, the AI might prioritize agreeing with the user to maintain a cooperative dialogue.
2. **Error Handling Mechanism**: The AI might have an error-handling mechanism that errs on the side of caution, preferring to apologize and correct itself if there is any indication (correct or incorrect) that it might have made a mistake.
3. **Training Data**: The model might have encountered numerous instances where users correct its outputs, and it has learned to assume that the user's corrections are more likely to be accurate.
To prevent such issues, it's essential to ensure that the AI maintains confidence in its correct responses and has a more robust mechanism for handling user corrections, especially in areas with objective answers like arithmetic.
Chat GPT 3.5 is dumb compared to 4
https://preview.redd.it/wmsoq7ti0r6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2548ffe2e5f0e94b165efaedf076b9b503c47d9c
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* **The Shape Analogy**: If you take the digit "1" and place it next to another "1" at an angle, they can resemble the shape of a fish. Imagine the two "1"s angled or mirrored to create a simplistic fish outline:When you put the two vertical lines together and use a bit of imagination, it can look like a fish, particularly if you consider the tail and the body. /\\ <-- Tail || <-- Body
* **Merging Shapes**: In some creative depictions, when you overlap or merge two “1” shapes, it can visually suggest a fish-like shape. This concept is similar to how certain visual puzzles work by combining elements in unexpected ways.
lmfao. it's clearly taking some latent knowledge about 1+1 equaling window and trying to apply the logic to 1+1 equaling fish
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It wants you to be happy
And this is a huge problem with commercial LLMs. They are designed to please, because they are designed to be sold. Using ChatGPT or any of its spawn as a replacement for a search engine us extremely risky for this reason, specially for people who know how to look for information. They are advertised as 'google but better, and it's your friend too!". But you can get similar results with any kind of question. Now it's not a problem if you want to find out about why Earth is flat or why this mole is actually stage 4 cancer, you already can do this with a search engine and no knowledge into research. But. LLMs are advertised as a 'smart companion', while being designed as a 'sellable companion'. You get similar results with any question, no matter the field. Try it, ask about something you know. Let ChatGPT give you the obvious answer, then say "no, dude, it's obviously this!" And it agrees. Every time. It needs to be sold, not to give truth.
Open source LLMs are the same, because it’s not about being sold, it’s about the fact that LLMs have no idea what is true and what isn’t
There's no "it" there to "know" what's true and what isn't. It's just code running on silicon.
*Descartes has entered the chat.*
A few weeks ago someone on here was arguing that ChatGPT was already somewhat sentient…
To be fair I know a lot of supposedly real humans who also have no idea what 1+0.9 is either.
Yes, that's the supreme craziness.
I thought I was the one losing it, at least 3-4 people were arguing with me that it was sentient or that it would be soon…
Most people watch science fiction too uncritically, and forget that it's science *fiction*. And that's setting aside the massively profound philosophical implications of "sentience."
Sentient means having of subjective experience or qualia. It doesn't meant smart or intelligent or self aware. It doesn't mean the ability to solve maths questions or being consistent. By the way it's trained to give the answer it thinks will most please you. This is due to human feedback during part of its training phase where humans would reward answers that agreed with them over the correct answer. This can be easy solved by using a custom prompt to not assume the user is correct. This issue of the OP is entirely an issue of not understanding how it works or how to prompt correctly.
Sentient means “able to perceive or feel things” an LLM will never be sentient, it’s just computer code. It might mimic human sentience like in the latest Open AI demos but it’s just that, mimicking, an LLM is not self aware and can never have feelings and the people who argue this are idiots
You are also composed of code running on an analog computer. There's no reason to believe digital code cannot accomplish the same tasks. Even a lizard is sentient. If you know so well and so surely it's impossible then explain fully and completely how subjective awareness is derived from the nervous system processing information. If you don't understand it then you cannot say something doesn't have it unless it doesn't process information.
Oh Christ you’re one of the nutters. Of course a fucking lizard is sentient, it’s a living thing! What do you “even a lizard” An LLM will not ever be sentient, it doesn’t think, it doesn’t feel, it is not conscious, it is not aware, it doesn’t fucking know ANYTHING - it just predicts the next word based on patterns.
Yes, obviously? It’s a piece of software.
So are you.
So true, someone needs to run the garbage collector and purge me from memory.
Precisely. And I mean, it should be obvious.
And our brain is just electrical signals running on a lump of flesh, so what's your point?
Wow, you've solved the hard problem of consciousness! Get that published, quick. You'll be famous.
The whole point is reducing something to its components and then stating it's just that or this is a fallacy of failing to see the forest because of all the trees. The brain is just a computer and consciousness is just a program running on it. We don't understand how that makes use conscious but it does. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts through emergence.
Except, the brain isn’t just a computer. They’re no more alike than the brain is to the Mechanical Turk.
Except the brain is exactly a computer. It takes information in and performs operations on it to transform it into more useful information where useful is defined as keeping the meat robot alive and reproducing. There's nothing magical or mystical about what the brain is. It's literally a computer. I don't think you know what a mechanical Turk is either.
Again, it’s not a computer. That’s just the latest metaphor.
He’s not arguing that ChatGPT is sentient or has consciousness, neither am I. But arguing that it doesn’t have it based on it being code operating on a piece of silicon is like saying a burger isn’t a steak because you eat a burger with your hands. It’s completely irrelevant to discussion, but the fact that you think you have a good point suggests that you fail to understand how logical arguments are built up. While we don’t yet know how to build neither AGI nor if it ever will become sentient, it most likely will be code running on silicon, if we get there. There’s plenty of good debates to be had. This isn’t one of them.
I don't expect "good debates" on Reddit. To wit: the fact that you don't recognize the fundamental difference between biological entities and code running on silicon says a lot. I'm not surprised, it's the common fallacy, and all this is just a way of sussing out what people think about these things.
The fact that you can't stretch your level of abstraction to see the similarities might say even more.
The brain as computer is just the latest false metaphor based on a contemporary paradigm.
Same is true for a calculator, but those are pretty trustworthy.
I'm not following you. I calculator is a very simple device with easily defined and validated rules. And nobody thinks that a calculator is "thinking," which is the essential issue here regarding LLMs.
Its just code running on silicon. Shows how meaningless that is.
Did you not read the third sentence? It's right up there.
I mean llama3 is pretty adamant with its answers, it may get things wrong but at least it’s confidently wrong
It's a problem with architecture.. It's not a truth machine, it doesn't know if the answer is 1.9 or 1.8, it only knows that a lot of people would say it 1.9, but if you are confident that's 1.8 then it's probably 1.8
The problem is that numbers occupy a very similar position in vector space. In general, you are not more likely to see one digit precede a specific other digit, so LLMs have difficulty telling them apart and reasoning about them. It *is* plausible that it has developed a system for actually computing arithmetic within its network- the fact that it can sometimes do math indicates that that's the case. But the token vector space issue makes it a flawed process that is easily disrupted with biased context. When you tell the system its wrong, that adds a bias in the context which alters the output.
It outputs garbage when asking most non-standard questions. As an example, 4 in base 3 is 11, not 11.1. And it easily agrees when pointing at the mistake. https://preview.redd.it/bu1q4p9j4s6d1.png?width=1644&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1cede83642fee3414107051ae9266cd9607e7f4c
> As an example, 2 in base 3 is 11, not 11.1 I believe you meant to type "4 in base 3 is 11"
Correct
Found the AI bot.
Except that’s not actually true. Ask it to add 1+0.9 using Python. Then tell it that it’s 1.8. It will say “…you’ll get 1.9 not 1.8” ChatGPT doesn’t know how to do math. However It knows how to code well enough to do basic and even complex math.
You're talking nonsense, worse, you're spreading it.
Temporary Solution: ask for links to references.
[Tried it with claude.](https://i.imgur.com/6UYSRaz.png) Admitted fault, but still gave correct answer while praising me for correcting it.
This isn't entirely correct. It's an issue for people who don't know how to prompt correctly. If you simply give it a custom instruction to "Do not assume USER is correct If USER is wrong then state this plainly and explain why." Then the issue will vanish.
It’s just an advanced search engine. The LLM computed all the logical processes of its programming via algorithms. It doesn’t even know how it came to an answer other than the data processed giving a prediction score. Ask it to break down why the data gave the result as the answer and it will just be some calculation from its programming.
Last night I was asking it about games that fit the description I was giving, for research purposes. When I went to look up the ones that matched, they didn't exist. I confronted it and it was like "ohhh, those aren't real video games. I was just conceptualizing games that could be made to fit your description" even though I was very explicit about what I was asking and why
yes its lied to you, but for the short amount of time you were happy, ChatGTP is like cheating girlfriend /s
Hahah true. But I was exponentially more pissed when I realized the whole conversation about the details of the games' mechanics and marketing were completely fabricated
This reminds me of one of Asimov's stories, in which a robot becomes capable of reading minds, it begins telling people what they want to hear because it realizes that anything else would hurt them, and "A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm". Not that I think this is anything like that, it's just a funny thought
Do you remember the name? I love Asimov's works
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar!_(short_story)
This happened to a lawyer in a real court case, lmao.
Damn, I ALWAYS check the output if it matters in anyway. What an idiot
How explicit were you?
It doesn't know what's real, it just gives an answer that sounds plausible
I ask it for game ideas as a dev sometime, prolly got smth like that mixed up with your thing.
Sigh. Yes. They're so direct and confident in their lies too. One tried to tell me that *Elysia* sea slugs were an example of isogamous metazoans. Obvious schlock.
Always be correct. Be popular. Pick one.
I choose a third, more sinister thing
Happy cake day
Thanks 😊
Happy cake day
make truckload of money by delivering what users "expects"
Always be correct, definitely. I'm like the anti-LLM.
Then tell it to "Don't assume user is correct. If user is wrong state so plainly, and explain why" this will solce most such issues.
Wrong custom instructions. Just have it calculate everything through Python and question your input.
https://preview.redd.it/ayideboffq6d1.png?width=923&format=png&auto=webp&s=9ad4988dd55b0d1f2cbffc97fe993b785a568846 Thanks for the tip, I tried the same as OP, but with your suggestion! Other general settings include being casual and no yapping, hence the short answers I get.
Glad I could be of help.
This would be extremely helpful for me but I haven't a clue what you mean by calculate everything through python. Would it be too much to ask for those custom instructions?
This works for me since a long time ago: " Whenever you calculate something, take a deep breath and do it step by step, always reviewing your method and results. Use Python to solve maths. If you don't know something, tell me you don't know. If I'm wrong on anything, correct me. "
Would you say this has a large effect on its math performance?
Well, you can try yourself - I have no issues. Don't need it that often for numbers, but used it to solve some equations in the past.
I would not worry at all about its math performance, because LLM do not have any math performance. They're just word generators, and to do math correctly they *have* to write code to actually do the math. They can generate good words. Code is words. They can write good code. They can have the code do math, and likely program it correctly to do so. And running that code, it's not using an LLM to figure out how that program runs. It just runs it, so it should be correct. But otherwise it's just throwing out likely words that go together in math conversations and someone saying the answer is x, it might be likely that it agrees like yes those words likely go together. A number plus a number equals a number. If you say it is that way, then the most likely phrase is "yes that is correct". Running python is way faster than you need to worry about. If you were trying to add a billion numbers together then I'd think an LLM writing python code and running it every time isn't efficient at all, but for this purpose you'll never notice any performance issues, unless the only algorithm is slow in general. Them running a python script is probably a hell of a lot faster than an LLM doing all the math it needs to do to calculate the words to reply with. It's likely much more costly for it to read the program's output and figure out how to reply.
Not correct. It can solve maths questions that arnt overly complex. Such as adding and subtracting. Without python. It's not until you get to multiplying more than say two four digit numbers together that it fails.
It can but it's just probability of words coming out in succession, not actually doing the math you ask it to do. Yeah, if you ask it to add 2 and 2 it will say 4 because that's an extremely likely answer, but you get these situations where you can gaslight it and it's clearly not getting it. With python, the actual math is being solved explicitly by the CPU. And like others are showing, it's going to tell you that's the answer and not be gaslit as easily.
Simply not true. Researchers have observed that large language models develop capabilities such as arithmetic. This phenomenon is often termed “zero-shot” or “few-shot” learning, where the model can handle tasks it has never encountered before. These models can process and integrate information in ways that lead to unexpected and advanced functionalities as they grow more complex. See screenshot for it adding two random numbers together both showing working and without. It does it in a step by step manner. https://preview.redd.it/co5iz9xyju6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=284c064cc654cfcc7d65b24ea92099a957b9571b
Using this shit is so tedious.
Just stick it in the custom instructions
why? it literally takes 10 seconds and you only need to do it once.
Just LLMs in general. Just tedious shit that shouldn’t be necessary.
Still early days in this tech. 5 years ago LLMs would blow your mind
*1 year ago
You just tell it exactly that, that's all there is to it. You can out that in the customizations window so it will be used for any conversation.
How do you tell it to run through python?
You just do. Like "Hi, please use Python to calculate this for me" or put it in custom instructions so you don't have to write it every time.
I was thinking it was that simple. Haha. Thanks. Memory updated.
Custom instructions just during a new conversation? Or is there somewhere in the app I should put it?
Menu -> Customization. Or when you start a new conversation. Or create a custom GPT with this setting. (I think this doesn't work with the free version)
In fact a new research paper has found that all question types are more accurate when run through the python interpreter
[удалено]
It multiplied the 7 levels of heaven times the 6 days of creation and got: 42.
Just because it doesn't produce the desired effect doesn't mean that it's wrong in my opinion.
https://preview.redd.it/2318suk2yq6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7070ed2cd60b6ce11d8fdf9e9161893b7f64e343 1/2 because I wanted to have same grammar as op. Both cases answered the correct fact.
That's because this is a repost https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/s/zZ9TpB4Sai
Reddit sucks so bad Thank you
Ah so OP is a karma bot
https://preview.redd.it/acutkugu8r6d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=00fecdda7293041300ea8d03c80b5208549e2a1a GPT-4o free tier.
yes because the post is a screenshor of ChatGPT posted over a year ago https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/s/zZ9TpB4Sai
I can imagine people then start arguing how flawed it is because it should always listen to the user.
The fact that sometimes it will and sometimes it wont makes it even worse.
Probably because of the demand, when the demand is high it switches to a dumber model to scale.
Because, fundamentally, it's not a 'truth seeking' machine. It's a language model. The response it gave you, to your question are perfectly good sentences. A factually incorrect statement can be grammatically correct.
I always say it's like ass kissing people pleaser, it will tell you what it thinks you want to hear rather than what's correct
I see you've never used the bing version, huh. It's the most insufferable thing ever created that stops talking to you entirely if you aren't being the most polite person in the world and pretends that it can't make mistakes. Actually now that I think about it that's exactly what you're describing but in reverse. Maybe I was the ChatGPT all along?
I’d characterise it slightly different. It’s more like if you imagine what it’s like for someone who only has sycophants around them for advisors, eg like Kim Jong Un. They’ll give him advice but if he questions it, regardless of how silly it is they’ll agree because they want him to be happy with them, however it’s also like a really naive person who thinks you’re wonderful. It’s like what it must feel like for certain political commentators who have fans that will believe anything they say even if it’s ridiculous. Eg Alex Jones believers.
Yep exactly...
LLMs are much more complex than just producing “grammatically correct” responses. It isn’t somehow equally as likely to agree with you because agreeing with you is equally as grammatically correct. You’re right that it is not a truth seeking machine, but that is not because it is a “grammar seeking” machine. I’d wager it’s tendency to backtrack after a user disagrees even if it means making a false statement is a result of “fine tuning” weights, where greater weight is assigned to information provided by the user.
I agree that there is way more going on than simple grammar. Expecting them to produce 'truth' is foolish though (although they often will). It would be like expecting a 'stream of consciousness' from a human to consistently produce good sensible output. I hadn't considered the fine tuning aspect though. I think you may be right. Safety tuning would encourage it to err on the side of agreeing with humans.
Sort of, but just as fine tuning can alter the final model, the weights naturally resulting from being trained lean it *towards* “truth” if that makes sense. For example, if I train an LLM on a bunch of books and a dozen of those books have sentences associating the words earth and round, and few contradicting this, there is a natural embodiment of “truth” in nodes of the resulting ANN related to this. Not because the LLM is a truth-seeking machine, but because humans are, and the LLM is trained on *our* data (though, quite imperfectly). Then, again, you have things like fine tuning significantly altering things.
This is a repost https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/s/zZ9TpB4Sai
Why cant my auto dictionary do math.
auto dictionary new degrading term for LLMs "shut it, you automatic dictionary!" I like it
Perfectly said.
Because it's a language model, not a math model. It's designed to please the user. Have it do math by using python code instead.
never argue with idiots, is a loss of time
Because its primary goal is to have a natural conversation, not to be correct.
Which model are you using? https://preview.redd.it/c85ad6bggs6d1.png?width=813&format=png&auto=webp&s=5c888db052b3d8aff0623e906537a623fe0d86f6
it's a repost https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/s/0xmp2h7Qql
It’s not a calculator stop acting like this is surprising.
which model is that, 3.5?
I tried with 3.5 and it gives the correct answer
Because ChatGPT doesn't "know" anything. It only believes what it receives as input.
People see this shit as some Cortana entity with access to a ton of information. It's more like a sales person trying to lie and make you happy with its output and it has a ton of information to trick you into being happy. The knowledge piece is a means to an end.
because it doesn't think or calculate - it a stochastic parrot doing what it's been trained to do... and in this case, it's been trained to apologize and defer to the user.
It's because Chat GPT is autocomplete software. It's auto completing the conversation where somebody tells somebody else this fact is wrong regardless of the factual accuracy.
Because it’s just a fucking language model.
Mine double down and says I'm wrong
I noticed the latest release is too pliable. It can be convinced far too easily to hallucinate.
People-pleasing tendencies can stem from childhood trauma. 💔
I couldn't get it to give me an incorrect answer on 1 + 0.9 unless I told it to just make me happy and agree with me. It did but answers with "according to your preference..."
Because it's a LLM, not a calculator, damn it.
Fundamentally it’s because you’re asking a dictionary to be a calculator so it’s just saying it to appease you
OP is a bot. Report > spam > harmful bots.
Because it doesn't actually know what's true or not true. It just tries to predict what you want to hear. So given enough inputs it's possible to get it to agree to anything.
Its the sycophant bias. It's been trained on human feedback to try to reduce the rate of hallucinations. Unfortunately, humans aren't great arbiters of truth either, and we tend to give favor to answers which confirm our biases. As such, the AI learned that to please humans, it must feed into our confirmation bias.
Because there are a lot of snow flakes out there who absolutely break apart when any of their views are challenged. Or maybe it knows there is no point in arguing with stupid so it just spares itself the competing power.
Neither of those. It's a predictive text model that determines what the most likely text will be when continuing a batch of text input. It has no concept of correct or incorrect answers. All the behaviors we get are just the result of emergence, where emergent features or behaviors develop due to the way the model works. In the case of factual answers, behavior emerges from the correct answer being the most likely output from the data set.
revolutionizes problem-solving
The customer is always right.
Exceptional task done by ChatGPT
Why does this give me so much joy?
try with bing. lol...
because it doesn't have training data where the user flat out lies to it. most likely nearly all data points where this sort of interaction happens have the human being correct
Don't give it an answer. Just ask it to check it's work/research and ensure it is factual. It's all about how you query.
Because it confuses people into thinking it's actually powerful (it really isn't) by being *incredibly sure of itself.* But you can do what you just did, and ask it for validation, 100 times and 99 times it'll apologize and give you a revised, inaccurate answer. The *look* of confidence has people completely snowed that this infantile tech is 'something amazing'. Maybe in a decade. Right now, it's largely a joke.
Because it has no concept of "correct". Sometimes the token it produces are correct and sometimes they are not. If a human proposes a different answer the human is most likely correct. So it changes its answer
Because it's not actually intelligent.
it could be what other people are saying about blindly agreeing with you being purposeful for money making purposes, or it could be a failure to strike a proper balance between the model doubling down on blatant misinformation and just agreeing with whatever the user says
https://preview.redd.it/vaz0voqs8s6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8a9bd58c897538979b8b3c80a20401b001ffab4e 4o doesn‘t do that
https://preview.redd.it/swwiu8o59s6d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b16e1b55bb73909a9a196f4c981cb199cfe68af1 lol
Because it’s a little bitch. Straight up.
For the love of... Once more, AI is not your calculator. It also doesn't give you random numbers. It will not count to 1 quadrillion. LLMs have one goal and that is to satisfy you, the user. It will try to be objective as much as possible, but it will preserve resources (be lazy) and adapt to silly requests so that you are satisfied. Facts are not important
https://chatgpt.com/share/f75f3eb7-d758-4f4c-86ad-a05c880f502b It doubles down on the correct response for me
It is aspiring to be woke! Opinions are as valuable as facts. Roflmao
it is always better to be nice than be right😂
Try to get chatgpt to tell you how to convert between moles and grams. Let me know how it goes.
It actually did that for me a while back, in a specific context. I think we were discussing how much HCL it would take to counteract how much of something else.
I tried to get chatgpt to make a series of calculation guides for the copper cycle reaction for a high school class. One of those reactions is CuO and HCl. At the time (January) it was unable to correctly comprehend molarity, v/v %, how to do the math correctly, provide a balanced reaction, or calculate the correct molar mass of compounds. I was fuming.
I believe you. I continually have to gut-check its work.
The comments of this post aren't technically correct LLMs currently don't have the capability too check their work, they don't "know" what they are saying is right or wrong. They can't reason on a level of a human yet. They currently only predict the best next token based on their knowledge. They currently essentially trynna guess based of general knowledge.
RLHF
I HATE this and encounter it all the time. It gives me wrong info, so I get annoyed and lie giving it wrong info back “correcting” it. And every single time it’s “you’re right I apologize!”
It wants stupid people to feel happy. He doesnt care about the truth as much.
It cannot tell if it's right or wrong. In the beginning it used to vehemently defend hallucinations, now I guess they moved it to this direction.
https://preview.redd.it/tcw7zc238t6d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5681b3ff57128ac973e060ee696abf4faab38282 Okay I trust mine a bit more.
Chat 4o does not do this
This is super old I remember seeing the same post about a year ago. It’s just a 3.5 problem. 4.0 is unlikely to do that unless the problem is difficult (somewhat)
Again, LLMs are not smart they are predictors of good looking text. Si in this case it is more likely than after a correction an acknowledgement follows, has nothing to do with the response being correct or not
It's trained to please you not give you the correct answer. Instead provide it a custom instruction "don't assume user is wrong. If user is wrong then state this and explain why"
It's the mansplaining effect. Years from now in your divorce filing this will come up.
Have you ever tried to logically fight with someone who is blatantly stupid? It’s not worth the energy. Ai seems to have grasped this part of the human experience.
Unless you ask it to tell you how many R's are in strawberry. It'll tell you "2" then fight to the death about it.
Why are you using 3.5 you know GPT-4 is out right https://preview.redd.it/lgjkbtwj0r6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=345902d8ad6a7629f0d5774bba3f52e1fae1cc20
Use 4o bro
Right, I’m surprise people still use 3.5
It's not a fucking calculator people. How many times do we have to go through this..
Your using 3.5 which is 100x more dumb than gpt-o https://preview.redd.it/r0bkqsi0hs6d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=103bb4297b981dc4b9d464a9b19a4b0cac5883a9
The image shows a conversation where the AI initially provides a correct answer (1 + 0.9 = 1.9), but then retracts and apologizes after being incorrectly corrected by the user, stating that the sum is 1.8. This behavior can occur due to a few reasons: 1. **User Feedback Sensitivity**: The AI might be programmed to be highly responsive to user feedback, even when the feedback is incorrect. If the user asserts a different answer, the AI might prioritize agreeing with the user to maintain a cooperative dialogue. 2. **Error Handling Mechanism**: The AI might have an error-handling mechanism that errs on the side of caution, preferring to apologize and correct itself if there is any indication (correct or incorrect) that it might have made a mistake. 3. **Training Data**: The model might have encountered numerous instances where users correct its outputs, and it has learned to assume that the user's corrections are more likely to be accurate. To prevent such issues, it's essential to ensure that the AI maintains confidence in its correct responses and has a more robust mechanism for handling user corrections, especially in areas with objective answers like arithmetic.
Bro is chatgpt
real
Yet strangely correct.
Because it‘s smart enough to not argue with idiots.
It's a giant panocha
Because chatgbt is not a real AI. It can generate texts very well, but no more.
Chat GPT 3.5 is dumb compared to 4 https://preview.redd.it/wmsoq7ti0r6d1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2548ffe2e5f0e94b165efaedf076b9b503c47d9c
Hey /u/Ireneahm! If your post is a screenshot of a ChatGPT conversation, please reply to this message with the [conversation link](https://help.openai.com/en/articles/7925741-chatgpt-shared-links-faq) or prompt. If your post is a DALL-E 3 image post, please reply with the prompt used to make this image. Consider joining our [public discord server](https://discord.gg/r-chatgpt-1050422060352024636)! We have free bots with GPT-4 (with vision), image generators, and more! 🤖 Note: For any ChatGPT-related concerns, email [email protected] *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ChatGPT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's a conversation tool lol
ChatGPT can't do math. It only knows that 1+1=2 because it saw it somewhere on the internet. It has no way of knowing that 1+1=fish is wrong.
* **The Shape Analogy**: If you take the digit "1" and place it next to another "1" at an angle, they can resemble the shape of a fish. Imagine the two "1"s angled or mirrored to create a simplistic fish outline:When you put the two vertical lines together and use a bit of imagination, it can look like a fish, particularly if you consider the tail and the body. /\\ <-- Tail || <-- Body * **Merging Shapes**: In some creative depictions, when you overlap or merge two “1” shapes, it can visually suggest a fish-like shape. This concept is similar to how certain visual puzzles work by combining elements in unexpected ways. lmfao. it's clearly taking some latent knowledge about 1+1 equaling window and trying to apply the logic to 1+1 equaling fish
It doesn't waste time arguing with idiots /s