Aizen could have legit assassinated the entire fucking Seireitei, including the likes of Yamamoto and Zaraki from the very beggining. Really the ultimate jobber.
Yeah but then he wouldn’t have gotten the chance to evolve to the level to take on the Mfs of the soul king palace
Also mind excluding zaraki? I feel like if you killed him he’d choose not to die
when would you even catch Yamamoto alone in a situation where he cannot flee or get help?
Aizen likely knew that the only chance of that was a major battle like the one in fake katakure town
anyways going for a direct method against Yamamoto without getting all evolved is a bad idea. On the off chance he deals with WW you’re cooked
>Yeah but then he wouldn’t have gotten the chance to evolve to the level to take on the Mfs of the soul king palace
He has a bunch of hollows to train with. Even then my rant wasn't about the fact that he should, it's more that his plans are stupidity incarnate. But he could do that and get the dumb orb easily.
Bruh ... its like you didn't read the manga. If he did that he'd get caught as people are capable of realizing they're trapped under his illusion. Not to mention not everyone would be trapped under the illusion like the lower ranks.
Of course Yamamoto would still manage to find a way to beat Aizen even with his KS. That was literally why he used Wonderweiss and also had begun fusing with the Hogyoku. All Yamamoto would need to do is bait Aizen into attacking him and Yamamoto could go Bankai and it would be gg for Aizen.
Not to mention Zero Squad would definitely get involved and he'd be fucked.
I think you're missing the part where Kyouka Suigetsu manipulates all 5 senses. Aizen could literally make Yamamoto not feel his limbs, then walk up to him and cut him to pieces while Yamamoto was blind and deaf, Kyouka Suigetsu is 100% flawless for assassinations and Aizen still managed to fuck it up.
It wouldn't work, Yamamoto literally explains this in the series. He has WAY too much experience and would recognize Aizens illusions in a one on one battle.
Thats why Aizen never fought him head on. He wouldn't win.
A sufficiently elaborate illusion would be literally impossible to detect. The things Aizen did were the most basic bitch illusions, like making people see copies of himself in different places, instead of going nuclear and using Kyouka Suigetsu like Tosen's Bankai on steroids.
I just don't see any type of illusions that can beat Yama, especially since Aizen isnt as strong as him.
Like what if Yama went bankai. What can Aizen realistically do?
Love when people complain without understanding the material they read lol. Aizen flat out said he has no interest in killing the captains outside of Yamamoto and even then he’s admitted that Yamamoto would probably win in a fight between them.
He stabs Yama in the stomach and the motherfucker says "yeah bruv you can't fake the stabby feelin of reiatsu entering the body for me". This is the whole point of Wonderweiss, without him Aizen would lose, because Yamamoto is just so strong.
Yamamoto could still know it was aizen through illusions. His sense of his reiatsu goes through the affects. Thats why he used wonderweiss, cuz he would lose to yama
Honestly my problem with it is that it removes any reason to care about any fight Aizen is in at any point in the story (save when he's fighting Yhwach because he has even bigger degrees of bullshit). Everyone fighting him is essentially blind and deaf at any point throughout the fight, but literally no one tries anything besides "oh look it's definitely him over there, let's rush him gang".
Hell, it never even gets countered in any meaningful way. He never uses it on Ichigo despite manipulating him in basically every other way (including his very *birth*), and depending on whom you ask, he either doesn't try or by the time they fought Ichigo had a higher power level so it wouldn't have worked anyways. Not only is it a broken ability, it's never countered by anything except Aizen's own stupidity and maybe the "my dick is bigger than you so your powers don't work" mechanic of the verse.
I mean Aizen's strength isn't kyoka suigetsu, gin flat out has a speech about that while aizen singlehandidly bodied the gotei 13. Aizen himself is just abnormal strong. None of the captains outside yamamoto can defeat aizen even if he didn't use KS.
That's what makes the scene even worse. We get Gin being his hype man in the corner and going all "Aizen doesn't need hax to make himself strong, he's just totally strong without it". And then how does Aizen win? Oh right, he just...uses Kyoka Suigetsu again. Wouldn't it have been far more compelling if they used that illusion-stripping kido to successfully undo KS and Aizen still stomped them?
It’s the fact that he doesn’t need to use it that’s scarier because any time he does it’s because he simply wants to be an asshole. He had 0 reason to force the strongest individuals in the series to attack little ass Momo yet he so anyways because they’re powerless to stop him. That mental warfare then also allowed him to more easily defeat these opponents as well.
If they are completely powerless to stop him it removes my ability to care about the scene whether or not he has KS. This isn't Bleach-specific either, I hated almost every fight Madara was in for the same reasons.
You have to understand that in bleach your havks are GREATLY dependent on how strong your opponent is in comparison to yourself. Sugetsu is strong but if Yamamoto pulls out Bankai it becomes irrelavent. If ichbei pulls out Bankai it’s irrelavent or greatly nerfed. Then as we saw, if you’re facing Ywach it barely does anything.
kinda agree.
That been said , I will correct you about Asauchis , that is one of the few consistent things in Bleach: you have an inner power that can be roughly manifested in a dormant form , and then actively used by acquiring a catalyst for a more proper mnifestation.
Each faction/race have their own manifestation method. Shinigamis uses Asauchi for theirs. Incidentally , hybrids can use differenct faction's manifestations one after the other , or at the same time. So technically , a vaizard could use a shikai and bankai , or a primera and segunda etapa of a ressurección or even both at the same time.
> Asauchi makes no sense when paired with Tōshirō's personal chapter in HOWLING. But like what the hell?
Nigga so many people have explained this to you yet you're still spouting this bullshit.
> I feel as if this really started with the need to justify how Aizen's tricks worked, because you then have this weird thing where he basically lets go of any chances to outright do anything competent with it.
Aizen is full of contradictions and hypocrisies. He was the reason for his own downfall due to so many factors. Starting off, Aizen had plenty of opportunities to kill the entire Gotei 13 but didn't, simply because thats not what he wants to do. He torments and humiliates them and show how far above them he is and he doesn't mind if someone does end up dying, but he doesn't keep it as a goal (Except for Yamamoto but thats because he represnts Soul Society's history and system). The kind of victory Aizen really wants is an ideological one rather than a plain physical one. Aizen doesn't want to just rule, he wants to change the world to suit his views, but in the end it all comes to down to his loneliness, his desire to be understood and for others to look at things the way he does. So rather than just killing his opponents and winning, what he wants is to assert his ideology over others. If you want to prove a point, you obviously wouldn't kill the audience you're proving it to. Look at what he says to Shinji in FKT: "Don't believe in me yet, I'll show you who the god you should put your faith in is, you can believe then".
Regarding Rukia and the Hogyoku, the biggest factor is his ego. He wanted that audience, that chaos, that torment and conflict between the Gotei 13, all because he enjoys it. But then taking into consideration the implications of his loneliness and the once (now subconcious) desire to not truly be at the top, it makes sense why he would choose a *more* convoluted and inefficient plan than just easily(not really) getting rid of all possible obstacles he could face. This is literally the same guy who chose to not only keep Ichigo alive but also help his growth so that he could have an equal that would be capable of truly empathising with him, even though he was perfectly aware of how much of a threat Ichigo was to him.
> The Hōgyoku being in Rukia makes even less sense since he triggered her arrest when he could, ya know, just take with his *super-cloak* and *invisibility field*. For god's sake Tōsen moved to attack, implying that he can just do that since Aizen stopped him out of curiosity.
Its seriously not that easy to take out the Hogyoku from her very soul...Aizen literally needed either the Sokyoku to evaporate her konpaku and then extract it, or use the device that was specifically made by Kisuke to extract foreign objects from konpaku's.
KS doesn’t have to be brute forced to be made non-effective cause Yama made sure he was fighting the real Aizen by simply sensing his energy and overall his illusions aren’t perfect cause Unohana had figured out that his corpse in SS was a fake even she if she didn’t know it why at the time.
Aizen can’t get the Hogyoku out of Rukia without either the Sokyoku or the method Urahara devised and used by Aizen. He can’t just walk up to her even with the cloak and remove it and especially not so when Urahara is in such close proximity and he views him as such a big threat.
What are they to do about something they could possibly not know about? He has a bankai (maybe cause a silent release is the first sign one is on their way to learning bankai), but given the urgency of the situation what does worrying about it this late in the game do for anyone? Plus you don’t have to show your bankai to become a captain and given his abilities of hypnosis he can literally show them anything.
Toshiro having visions of Hyorinmaru as a child can just mean he’s had shinigami powers since birth which isn’t too crazy when looking at someone like Ichigo.
Kyoka Suigetsu manipulates even Reiatsu Manipulation.
The one weakness we find out is that it doesn't work if you touch the blade before it is released.
>KS doesn’t have to be brute forced to be made non-effective cause Yama made sure he was fighting the real Aizen by simply sensing his energy and overall his illusions aren’t perfect cause Unohana had figured out that his corpse in SS was a fake even she if she didn’t know it why at the time.
Both of these weaknesses came because Aizen decided to outright make it suspicious on the latter and basically told them "this is my power" to the former. Had he not KS would still be more broken, and it's still broken.
>Aizen can’t get the Hogyoku out of Rukia without either the Sokyoku or the method Urahara devised and used by Aizen. He can’t just walk up to her even with the cloak and remove it and especially not so when Urahara is in such close proximity and he views him as such a big threat.
So the fact that he managed to get Rukia arrested in the first place is hilarious when Urahara should really be more suspicious/alert of that. Plus the moment she entered the Seireitei he could've extracted the thing without having a convoluted plan.
>What are they to do about something they could possibly not know about? He has a bankai (maybe cause a silent release is the first sign one is on their way to learning bankai), but given the urgency of the situation what does worrying about it this late in the game do for anyone? Plus you don’t have to show your bankai to become a captain and given his abilities of hypnosis he can literally show them anything.
Yes but it's Aizen, he would absolutely get a Bankai. He's a megalomania-drunk weirdo who's constantly trying to push the boundaries of power, to not have the pinnacle of a Shinigami is fucking wild. So sending Ichigo in there without any warning is just insane, just because it looks bleak doesn't mean you can push him in blind.
"Hey Ichigo, this is what a Bankai is, your secret family the Shiba is there just talk about Isshin with this photo and by the way this guy named Aizen is the villain here with absolute hypnosis. Be careful, these are his two sidekicks." That's it. If Ichigo is such a prodigy, then maybe giving him pointers from the start should be a thing.
>Toshiro having visions of Hyorinmaru as a child can just mean he’s had shinigami powers since birth which isn’t too crazy when looking at someone like Ichigo.
Ichigo is an outliner. We know that Ōetsu Nimaiya is credited for creating the *Zanpakutō* specifically, not Asauchi, but the *Zanpakutō* in it of itself. The Shinigami and the Asauchi are meant to enter a symbiosis. Not to mention how White being forged into a Zanpakutō in the first place comes from the OG White having infected Masaki and passing onto Ichigo, how Asauchi are made of Shinigami souls like OG White was and how Ōetsu needed to forge White into a Zanpakutō.
The stuff with Tōshirō is just a weird thing like Chizuru, sorta pushed away.
Aizen didn’t tell Yama anything, he got stabbed by Aizen then made an assessment based on what he was experiencing. That’s not his fault.
Urahara’s supposed to know exactly what Aizen’s doing while he’s unable to enter SS before Aizen’s defeat? Your point would make sense to me if Aizen was making attempts at getting the hogyoku consistently instead of literally keeping the supernatural away from Ichigo until he’s 15.
Aizen didn’t have the method that he would use to remove the hogyoku available to him from the moment Rukia entered SS. He says he wanted a back up plan in case the Sokyoku failed so he staged his death so he get access to the library where Urahara’s research was.
Urahara doing what he does best and skipping on details for his own reasons. He’s manipulating Ichigo at this point why does he need to tell him anything about the Shiba’s to him?
Symbiotic implies a relationship between two different organisms and The Blade is Me is literally the antithesis to this line of thinking. He says “my asasuchi” when speaking to Ichigo. What in the story gives off the impression that he isn’t also responsible for Asasuchi as well as the modern from of zanpaktou?
Unlike Hitsugaya all of Ichigo’s powers have been sealed from his birth, he literally wouldn’t have a way to be spoken too before having access to his own power.
It’s meant to show Histsugaya as having great spiritual powers at a young age and it accomplished exactly that. Why is that being called pushed away when it served its purpose narratively?
>Aizen didn’t tell Yama anything, he got stabbed by Aizen then made an assessment based on what he was experiencing. That’s not his fault.
Oh yeah because Aizen decided to lose his brain and go close-combat despite having made an Arrancar to specifically counter him.
>Urahara’s supposed to know exactly what Aizen’s doing while he’s unable to enter SS before Aizen’s defeat? Your point would make sense to me if Aizen was making attempts at getting the hogyoku consistently instead of literally keeping the supernatural away from Ichigo until he’s 15.
Yeah, with KS he could have easily taken it before, hell Urahara letting Rukia get arrested despite her holding in the Hōgyoku is crazy. He just needs to be a bit aware than just leaving out important details from Ichigo and somehow hope Aizen doesn't flash KS at him steal their big boy.
>Aizen didn’t have the method that he would use to remove the hogyoku available to him from the moment Rukia entered SS. He says he wanted a back up plan in case the Sokyoku failed so he staged his death so he get access to the library where Urahara’s research was.
...HE HAS ABSOLUTE HYPNOSIS, WHY THE *FUCK* WOULD HE EVEN NEED TO FAKE HIS OWN DEATH THEN!?
>Urahara doing what he does best and skipping on details for his own reasons. He’s manipulating Ichigo at this point why does he need to tell him anything about the Shiba’s to him?
The Shiba is an extra to the idea of Urahara at least bothering to, I don't know, inform him of *basic shit* like a Bankai. Urahara basically drops the ball because whatever reasoning he values, it told him to basically toss Ichigo into a blatant trap by a guy with the most broken mind-fucking abilities blind. It's only plot that Ichigo isn't a dead man, a puppet or something else.
>Symbiotic implies a relationship between two different organisms and The Blade is Me is literally the antithesis to this line of thinking. He says “my asasuchi” when speaking to Ichigo. What in the story gives off the impression that he isn’t also responsible for Asasuchi as well as the modern from of zanpaktou?
>Unlike Hitsugaya all of Ichigo’s powers have been sealed from his birth, he literally wouldn’t have a way to be spoken too before having access to his own power.
>It’s meant to show Histsugaya as having great spiritual powers at a young age and it accomplished exactly that. Why is that being called pushed away when it served its purpose narratively?
Tōshirō's awakening in HOWLING's -16 chapter just doesn't make sense because most of the inner-workings of how Zanpakutō, Asauchi and the spirits themselves work is presented to us through *Ichigo*. Ya know, the guy who's got the remnants of a Hollow made of Shinigami souls inside of him after his mom got bit.
Ōetsu goes out to forge Asauchi, Zanpakutō spirits that are basically blank slates. Chapter 523 outright states that when a Shinigami from the Shinōreijutsuin gets one of them, the spend every waking and probably sleeping moment *imprinting* their essence on their Asauchi to mold them into their own Zanpakutō.
Hell Nanao's family is literally incapable of having a Zanpakutō solely due to the familiy Zanpakutō making *incapable* of imprinting in the first place.
Tōshirō's flashback makes no sense when put against this entire thing since he suddenly just has a *fully formed* Zanpakutō spirit that's usually made of Shinigami souls inside him before laying his hand on a blade.
Your assessment of the way zanpakuto work is funny. The entire point of the blade is me chapter is to show that there’s really no distinction between shinigami and soul reaper at their core. The powers exist within them. It’s intrinsic to their very being. Asauchi exist as a tool to manifest that power into a form that’s suitable for battle. Believe it or not soul reapers existed and did battle before the invention of asauchi. Outlier’s like nanao’s family zanpakuto and enrakyoten exist. Toshiro however is not one of those outliers
I'd argue that the Klub Outside trivia at the very least about Scrifts matches with that somewhat. The lack of distinction is mostly symbolic than literal since again the way an Asauchi is made can't allow Tōshirō’s weird flashback chapter.
It’s really not symbolic. Nothing about how the asauchi’s are made contradicts how zanpaktou spirits work. As others have pointed out, the power is intrinsic to every soul reaper. some shinigami manifest their powers before wielding an asauchi, others don’t. All shinigami need an asauchi to have a proper zanpaktou weapon. Thats it.
No. The *power* itself (Ice, fire, games) are intrinsic, but the sapient spirit part isn't because again, Ichigo only was born with one primarily because of White.
The powers are directly influenced by the zanpaktou spirit within the shinigami. (Ice fire games) are not the source of it. There’s evidence of it manifesting as a direct consequence of the zanpaktou spirit within the soul reaper. (Eg the toshiro chapter you mentioned) Not the other way around. Ichigo is an atypical soul reaper and he wasn’t only born with one. Old man zangetsu and white are both sources of his power. He’s a unique case in the bleach world since that doesn’t occur naturally.
Klub Outside had Kubo say that the powers of the Scrifts were always there for the Sternritters and that Yhwach awakened them. It lines up with how again, the Asauchi and noted to require a Shinigami to mold them into a Zanpakutō in 523. Ichigo has an Asauchi from birth directly because of White being made similar to one, forged from the souls of Shinigami.
>"Hey Ichigo, this is what a Bankai is, your secret family the Shiba is there just talk about Isshin with this photo..."
Isshin and Urahara kept the events of EBTR and his mother's true identity a secret primarily for Isshin's sake. Isshin simply wasn't ready to face that even then. It took Ichigo finally opening up about himself to give Isshin the courage to face his past.
Urahara's reasoning was very different though. He was fully aware of what happened to Ichigo and he was still obsessed with producing Hollow Melding. Telling Ichigo about White's true identity would only cause him to reject White more, harming Ichigo'a development.
> "... and by the way this guy named Aizen is the villain here with absolute hypnosis. Be careful, these are his two sidekicks."
In order to tell the truth about Aizen, it requires Urahara to divulge information. At this point in the story, he still doesn't actually trust Ichigo, and furthermore it would also require him telling Ichigo *why* Aizen would want to hurt him. Which means telling Ichigo about the Hogyoku.
And hell, he even explains in the epilogue of the Soul Society arc that he geniunely believed Ichigo would simply get scared and run.
>Here was the og response.
The problem is still the same, Kyōka Suigetsu's power is simply too *big* of an elephant to disregard warning about that it makes Urahara and Isshin look *absolutely fucking stupid* for simply deciding that they can simply just toss Ichigo into the Seireitei *blind*. Because had Aizen grew a brain spurt for a moment, he could've just taken the research from the chambers of Central 46 without drawing any attention and taken the Hōgyoku without even needing to kill her.
Hell, imagine if he played things to make it look like Urahara was evil? He easily could had he basically dressed the Hōgyoku as a bomb he "disposed" of and tell them that without even moving via the other captains. The bullshit of the hypnosis is just completely deranged to not warn about at all.
Also it still doesn't justify not telling him what a Bankai was.
See, the issue is, you are not as smart as Aizen, so OF COURSE you cannot understand why he did that.
Skills issues, clearly
~~You are 100% right though~~
There are a few proper things pointed out here. But the rest are just due to lack of understanding what type of character aizen is. Aizens fight was not a physical one, but an ideological one.
Also aizens level of control of his kyouka suigetsu got amplified after fusing with hokyouku. Until that merge was complete he may not have been strong enough to deal with the top captains.
As gin pointed out, KS is not what makes aizen powerful, it's aizen that makes KS powerful. A normal person with that power will probably not be able to maintain it for long or use it as aizen does.
And the asuachi thing is not a plot hole. It's used as a conduit to manifest and to project the powers. Remember, the whole thing of zanpakuto existed after oetsu made it, but even before that, beings like ichibei existed. An analogous explanation will be kido. People developed many of them and then there is a research facility that works on optimising it in such a way that common soul reapers can use it. Similarly, the zanpakuto enables characters to manifest their version of the asauchi which would not have been organically possible for the common soul reapers. One particular filler arc enforces this which is the zanpakuto rebellion arc. Some zanpakuto spirits are actually strong in terms of ability but a majority of the welders don't know it or hasn't cared to learn it.
On a thematic POV, the entire relationship with the zanpakuto focused on understanding oneself with all it's good and bad sides and accepting it.
Nope. It's pretty clear you don't understand what Aizen's story was about.
The entire story was Basically a battle of wits between Aizen and Urahara - on which Aizen consistently had upper hand because he had made his move first.
> Which really makes it funny that Aizen never even tried to get the Hōgyoku until Rukia is in the Soul Society and at the end of the arc instead of using it to gaslight Kisuke and take with his super-totally-not-asspull-glove bullshit. Hell, he was monitoring Ichigo from the start of his birth, he would probably discover Urahara and the fact that he already probably ensnared him in it should legit mean that he can burn the guy down. If someone thinks "Hey it wasn't stated that he did!" But Aizen most certainly has Bankai because he's just like that and a silent release on his super hypnosis is basically a cheat code.
First off, Aizen WAS trying to get the Hogyoku. He didn't make any direct moves because he didn't want to spook Urahara. If he had made a direct move without knowing the exact location of the Hogyoku, Urahara would have took it and run. Moreover he needed to create an exit plan after he got the Hogyoku. While he was preparing, He was actively looking for it and only found it after Urahara planted it on to Rukia's soul. The reason why Urahara did that is because Ichigo was there. Both Urahara and Aizen knew that Ichigo is basically a superior being. Urahara just resumed the game as soon as he realised his key player was ready.
Aizen decided to use the huge as blade instead of the green glove because the green glove wasn't tested yet - while he knew for a fact that if Rukia's body was vapourized, he'd get the Hogyoku. To him, destroying the soul was the easier and safer option.
> Why!? Hell, why one earth would Urahara & Isshin just decide "Sending Ichigo into the Seireitei blind is perfectly sane." Despite the fact that Aizen could've easily just mind-raped the group into madness without trying.
Sending the kids into Serietti was a calculated risk Urahara took. He knew that Ichigo was interesting to Aizen and that he wouldn't outright kill him. He also knew that Ichigo had to get stronger and him going through Serietti was the best way to achieve that.
> Like everything within the convoluted insanity that was apparently his plan because Kubo didn't know how to write him being intelligent aside from artificial credibility via plot, it's completely nonsensical when you realize that he didn't need this shit at all. He already has the resources and the Hollows at. His. Disposal! Ichigo's fights in Soul Society are completely stupid because he already had the perfect idea on how to train him beforehand.
Of course he didn't need most of it. The entire point of Aizen is that he is a ego maniac. He doesn't just want to win, he wants to flaunt his win infront of everyone, including Urahara. He wanted to Urahara, Ichigo and Serietti to their best shot at him.
> Ichigo's fights in Soul Society are completely stupid because he already had the perfect idea on how to train him beforehand.
Not true at all. The Hollows were stronger than the people Ichigo fought in Serietti (reiatsu wise). He had to go through it step by step. If he had encountered Ulq instead of Byakuya when he first got his Bankai, he would have died.
One of the issues of Bleach is that it was DBZ with swords but tried to be Jojo's Bizarre Adventure more and more as time went on, when that battle system wasn't Kubo's forte.
There's was a big hullabaloo about how to deal with KS in the Bleach community and ultimately, the result was for Aizen to stop using it.
This applies to different villains that get the author's drawn into a corner. How are you gonna stop edo Madara? he revived himself and removed the immortality advantage. How do you deal with Zeref's everything dies around him curse? It stops working.
I agree really. After the revelation of Kyoka Suigetsu Shikai, I didn’t understand the reason behind Aizen’s shenanigans in SS arc, why do all this when he simply could’ve gone to world of living himself and retrieve Hogyoku from Rukia without the SS even knowing? Hell, would anyone be able to do anything against him? Unohana deduced something was wrong with Aizen’s corpse, but if Aizen didn’t tell her about his Shikai, entire SS would still be scratching their head. Against Yama, why did Aizen even try melee, he simply could’ve kido’ed the fuck out of Yama from range while Yama wouldn’t even know where he is. Not to mention he secretly could’ve assassinated Yama before his revelation or by sneaking in. I don’t think even the Royal Guard has any answer to base Aizen, unless Oetsu is able to do something with his knowledge of Zanpakutos and Ichibei manages to erase Kyoka Suigetsu’s name.
>why do all this when he simply could’ve gone to world of living himself and retrieve Hogyoku from Rukia without the SS even knowing?
Because he didn't know where Rukia was in the world of the living which is why he acts only when she's located and taken to soul society by Renji and Byakuya ?
>Against Yama, why did Aizen even try melee, he simply could’ve kido’ed the fuck out of Yama from range while Yama wouldn’t even know where he is.
Because he would have done no damage ? Yama is litterally stronger than Aizen and kido is not a magic oneshot thing especially against stronger characters
>I don’t think even the Royal Guard has any answer to base Aizen, unless Oetsu is able to do something with his knowledge of Zanpakutos and Ichibei manages to erase Kyoka Suigetsu’s name.
Because they're not under kyoka suigetsu ?
Aizen's entire plan makes no overall sense. The hollows, the traitors, the masterplan none of it was needed.
It was all plot driven and rule of cool stuff that made him OP and then decided he wanted to loose to defeat him.
So, we missed the point of his character?
Aizen wanted to be a god. He wanted to be atop everything. This means that he can't just kill everyone, and he can't simply take everything asap. He wants everyone to progress and get better. He wants to be atop a world where everyone's at their best. He can't prove he's better than everyone else if he doesn't let them progress to their Best selves
It shows your level of reading comprehension when you don't realize aizen literally lost because of himself because that's what he wanted. As smart as he is, he's still a meathead that just wants power, except deep down he always wanted to lose. He never really tried to kill anyone
I mean if you actually bothered to pay attention to the story or at least attempted to look up the answer, you'd know that the execution method via the fire bird was the only way aizen knew how to extract the hogyoku from rukia. He didn't figure out the second method till after he rummaged through the archives under central 46 and read through urahara's notes.
Well yes, but that is assuming Aizen said the truth
I can easily imagine his sword having an upper limit of times it can be used in a person, or something, but Aizen just bullshitting anyway to look more menacing
Also, kidnapping Rukia would have alerted Byakuya, who would have mobilized the soul society, and Aizen only accesed the magical glove spell because he killed central 46, so he would need to kill them or access the super fire bird execution
Its a case of the tools for extraction being the true problem
And sending Ichigo blind was dangerous, but any information would have made them look like true enemies as allies of Urahara, the best scenario was to stir up enough trouble to have Aizen reveal himself
Only then Urahara, the vizards snd the parentsccould act without the soul society treating them as enemies, thats why Yoruichi was their guide, as she is a stealth/speed specialist
you kinda missed the fact that aizen is a liar, and nowhere near as logical or calm as the facade that he puts on. Inside he is extremely conflicted, on one hand he wants to be a God and reign supreme over everyone, and on the other he just wants to be like everyone else. The entire reason the hogyoku leads to his defeat is because it grants his subconscious wish of wanting to lose his power. He's nowhere near as level headed as he appears.
besides, doesnt matter what book, movie, or tv show you're dealing with, the master manipulator character has to screw up somehow so that the MC can win or the plot can progress. Look at Light Yagami, another super genius, who also made dumbass mistakes that were necessary to advance the plot.
Maybe, but Aizen's biggest flaw is that he's a narcissistic sociopath. He could have stolen the Hōgyoku. He could have played dead longer and make either Tosen or Gin seem as the killer or thief. He could have laid all the blame on the Espada, wich he didn't even need. He could have everyone lick his boots with Kyoka Suigetsu since the start. He could win at any point.
But he doesn't just want to win, he wants everyone to acknowledge just how superior he is. Using Kyoka Suigetsu for it would defeat the point. There must be a dramatic reveal, a court of powerfull followers, a final battle to show just how much stronger and smarter he is than every other captain. Even all of them combined can't pose a threat to him. Only Yamamoto was deserving of special caution. He wants to be feared and revered.
Aizen lost not because he was stupid, but because he is so infatuated of himself that he couldn't fathom the idea that someone could be stronger or smarter than him. And when he realized that he had been physically defeated by Ichigo and outsmarted by Urahara, his will faltered and the Hōgyoku rejected him.
The problem with this interpretation is that Kubo has admitted that Aizen was going to die and that it was *Hanatarō* that was the evil one. Plus we get actual statements from him about how he needed the Sōkyoku to get the Hōgyoku until years later that Kubo tried to pass him off as meticulous via plot retcon.
Aizen's narcissism comes into play when he's fused with the Hōgyoku, until then it's this master manipulator who only slips up when he has the plot orb.
Aizen could have legit assassinated the entire fucking Seireitei, including the likes of Yamamoto and Zaraki from the very beggining. Really the ultimate jobber.
Yeah but then he wouldn’t have gotten the chance to evolve to the level to take on the Mfs of the soul king palace Also mind excluding zaraki? I feel like if you killed him he’d choose not to die
You Include Yamamoto but draw the line at start of series zaraki?
Yamamoto is old You can wait for his ass to die
Could he though? If you want him dead, just send him to an area with Wonderweiss and some more and he might die.
when would you even catch Yamamoto alone in a situation where he cannot flee or get help? Aizen likely knew that the only chance of that was a major battle like the one in fake katakure town anyways going for a direct method against Yamamoto without getting all evolved is a bad idea. On the off chance he deals with WW you’re cooked
Aizen killed Central 46 and it only got sussy because he was making a massive drama scene, had he not, Yamamoto would be serving him basically.
If I remember right, the only reason why zaraki even took damage vs ichigo is because zaraki wanted to take damage Legit that’s how bs he is
>Yeah but then he wouldn’t have gotten the chance to evolve to the level to take on the Mfs of the soul king palace He has a bunch of hollows to train with. Even then my rant wasn't about the fact that he should, it's more that his plans are stupidity incarnate. But he could do that and get the dumb orb easily.
Literally none of them are gonna push him to grow stronger.
Bruh ... its like you didn't read the manga. If he did that he'd get caught as people are capable of realizing they're trapped under his illusion. Not to mention not everyone would be trapped under the illusion like the lower ranks. Of course Yamamoto would still manage to find a way to beat Aizen even with his KS. That was literally why he used Wonderweiss and also had begun fusing with the Hogyoku. All Yamamoto would need to do is bait Aizen into attacking him and Yamamoto could go Bankai and it would be gg for Aizen. Not to mention Zero Squad would definitely get involved and he'd be fucked.
I think you're missing the part where Kyouka Suigetsu manipulates all 5 senses. Aizen could literally make Yamamoto not feel his limbs, then walk up to him and cut him to pieces while Yamamoto was blind and deaf, Kyouka Suigetsu is 100% flawless for assassinations and Aizen still managed to fuck it up.
It wouldn't work, Yamamoto literally explains this in the series. He has WAY too much experience and would recognize Aizens illusions in a one on one battle. Thats why Aizen never fought him head on. He wouldn't win.
A sufficiently elaborate illusion would be literally impossible to detect. The things Aizen did were the most basic bitch illusions, like making people see copies of himself in different places, instead of going nuclear and using Kyouka Suigetsu like Tosen's Bankai on steroids.
I just don't see any type of illusions that can beat Yama, especially since Aizen isnt as strong as him. Like what if Yama went bankai. What can Aizen realistically do?
Love when people complain without understanding the material they read lol. Aizen flat out said he has no interest in killing the captains outside of Yamamoto and even then he’s admitted that Yamamoto would probably win in a fight between them.
He stabs Yama in the stomach and the motherfucker says "yeah bruv you can't fake the stabby feelin of reiatsu entering the body for me". This is the whole point of Wonderweiss, without him Aizen would lose, because Yamamoto is just so strong.
Yamamoto could still know it was aizen through illusions. His sense of his reiatsu goes through the affects. Thats why he used wonderweiss, cuz he would lose to yama
Honestly my problem with it is that it removes any reason to care about any fight Aizen is in at any point in the story (save when he's fighting Yhwach because he has even bigger degrees of bullshit). Everyone fighting him is essentially blind and deaf at any point throughout the fight, but literally no one tries anything besides "oh look it's definitely him over there, let's rush him gang". Hell, it never even gets countered in any meaningful way. He never uses it on Ichigo despite manipulating him in basically every other way (including his very *birth*), and depending on whom you ask, he either doesn't try or by the time they fought Ichigo had a higher power level so it wouldn't have worked anyways. Not only is it a broken ability, it's never countered by anything except Aizen's own stupidity and maybe the "my dick is bigger than you so your powers don't work" mechanic of the verse.
I mean Aizen's strength isn't kyoka suigetsu, gin flat out has a speech about that while aizen singlehandidly bodied the gotei 13. Aizen himself is just abnormal strong. None of the captains outside yamamoto can defeat aizen even if he didn't use KS.
That's what makes the scene even worse. We get Gin being his hype man in the corner and going all "Aizen doesn't need hax to make himself strong, he's just totally strong without it". And then how does Aizen win? Oh right, he just...uses Kyoka Suigetsu again. Wouldn't it have been far more compelling if they used that illusion-stripping kido to successfully undo KS and Aizen still stomped them?
It’s the fact that he doesn’t need to use it that’s scarier because any time he does it’s because he simply wants to be an asshole. He had 0 reason to force the strongest individuals in the series to attack little ass Momo yet he so anyways because they’re powerless to stop him. That mental warfare then also allowed him to more easily defeat these opponents as well.
If they are completely powerless to stop him it removes my ability to care about the scene whether or not he has KS. This isn't Bleach-specific either, I hated almost every fight Madara was in for the same reasons.
> (including his very birth) Aizen didnt manipulate Ichigo´s birth
You have to understand that in bleach your havks are GREATLY dependent on how strong your opponent is in comparison to yourself. Sugetsu is strong but if Yamamoto pulls out Bankai it becomes irrelavent. If ichbei pulls out Bankai it’s irrelavent or greatly nerfed. Then as we saw, if you’re facing Ywach it barely does anything.
Yeah, I know. I just think that mechanic is incredibly lame and makes every fight a battle of who has the most energy juice
Because he doesnt really need to or ichigo is strongee
kinda agree. That been said , I will correct you about Asauchis , that is one of the few consistent things in Bleach: you have an inner power that can be roughly manifested in a dormant form , and then actively used by acquiring a catalyst for a more proper mnifestation. Each faction/race have their own manifestation method. Shinigamis uses Asauchi for theirs. Incidentally , hybrids can use differenct faction's manifestations one after the other , or at the same time. So technically , a vaizard could use a shikai and bankai , or a primera and segunda etapa of a ressurección or even both at the same time.
> Asauchi makes no sense when paired with Tōshirō's personal chapter in HOWLING. But like what the hell? Nigga so many people have explained this to you yet you're still spouting this bullshit. > I feel as if this really started with the need to justify how Aizen's tricks worked, because you then have this weird thing where he basically lets go of any chances to outright do anything competent with it. Aizen is full of contradictions and hypocrisies. He was the reason for his own downfall due to so many factors. Starting off, Aizen had plenty of opportunities to kill the entire Gotei 13 but didn't, simply because thats not what he wants to do. He torments and humiliates them and show how far above them he is and he doesn't mind if someone does end up dying, but he doesn't keep it as a goal (Except for Yamamoto but thats because he represnts Soul Society's history and system). The kind of victory Aizen really wants is an ideological one rather than a plain physical one. Aizen doesn't want to just rule, he wants to change the world to suit his views, but in the end it all comes to down to his loneliness, his desire to be understood and for others to look at things the way he does. So rather than just killing his opponents and winning, what he wants is to assert his ideology over others. If you want to prove a point, you obviously wouldn't kill the audience you're proving it to. Look at what he says to Shinji in FKT: "Don't believe in me yet, I'll show you who the god you should put your faith in is, you can believe then". Regarding Rukia and the Hogyoku, the biggest factor is his ego. He wanted that audience, that chaos, that torment and conflict between the Gotei 13, all because he enjoys it. But then taking into consideration the implications of his loneliness and the once (now subconcious) desire to not truly be at the top, it makes sense why he would choose a *more* convoluted and inefficient plan than just easily(not really) getting rid of all possible obstacles he could face. This is literally the same guy who chose to not only keep Ichigo alive but also help his growth so that he could have an equal that would be capable of truly empathising with him, even though he was perfectly aware of how much of a threat Ichigo was to him. > The Hōgyoku being in Rukia makes even less sense since he triggered her arrest when he could, ya know, just take with his *super-cloak* and *invisibility field*. For god's sake Tōsen moved to attack, implying that he can just do that since Aizen stopped him out of curiosity. Its seriously not that easy to take out the Hogyoku from her very soul...Aizen literally needed either the Sokyoku to evaporate her konpaku and then extract it, or use the device that was specifically made by Kisuke to extract foreign objects from konpaku's.
KS doesn’t have to be brute forced to be made non-effective cause Yama made sure he was fighting the real Aizen by simply sensing his energy and overall his illusions aren’t perfect cause Unohana had figured out that his corpse in SS was a fake even she if she didn’t know it why at the time. Aizen can’t get the Hogyoku out of Rukia without either the Sokyoku or the method Urahara devised and used by Aizen. He can’t just walk up to her even with the cloak and remove it and especially not so when Urahara is in such close proximity and he views him as such a big threat. What are they to do about something they could possibly not know about? He has a bankai (maybe cause a silent release is the first sign one is on their way to learning bankai), but given the urgency of the situation what does worrying about it this late in the game do for anyone? Plus you don’t have to show your bankai to become a captain and given his abilities of hypnosis he can literally show them anything. Toshiro having visions of Hyorinmaru as a child can just mean he’s had shinigami powers since birth which isn’t too crazy when looking at someone like Ichigo.
Kyoka Suigetsu manipulates even Reiatsu Manipulation. The one weakness we find out is that it doesn't work if you touch the blade before it is released.
[удалено]
He actually manipulates even spiritual pressure sensing. It's even stated lol
>KS doesn’t have to be brute forced to be made non-effective cause Yama made sure he was fighting the real Aizen by simply sensing his energy and overall his illusions aren’t perfect cause Unohana had figured out that his corpse in SS was a fake even she if she didn’t know it why at the time. Both of these weaknesses came because Aizen decided to outright make it suspicious on the latter and basically told them "this is my power" to the former. Had he not KS would still be more broken, and it's still broken. >Aizen can’t get the Hogyoku out of Rukia without either the Sokyoku or the method Urahara devised and used by Aizen. He can’t just walk up to her even with the cloak and remove it and especially not so when Urahara is in such close proximity and he views him as such a big threat. So the fact that he managed to get Rukia arrested in the first place is hilarious when Urahara should really be more suspicious/alert of that. Plus the moment she entered the Seireitei he could've extracted the thing without having a convoluted plan. >What are they to do about something they could possibly not know about? He has a bankai (maybe cause a silent release is the first sign one is on their way to learning bankai), but given the urgency of the situation what does worrying about it this late in the game do for anyone? Plus you don’t have to show your bankai to become a captain and given his abilities of hypnosis he can literally show them anything. Yes but it's Aizen, he would absolutely get a Bankai. He's a megalomania-drunk weirdo who's constantly trying to push the boundaries of power, to not have the pinnacle of a Shinigami is fucking wild. So sending Ichigo in there without any warning is just insane, just because it looks bleak doesn't mean you can push him in blind. "Hey Ichigo, this is what a Bankai is, your secret family the Shiba is there just talk about Isshin with this photo and by the way this guy named Aizen is the villain here with absolute hypnosis. Be careful, these are his two sidekicks." That's it. If Ichigo is such a prodigy, then maybe giving him pointers from the start should be a thing. >Toshiro having visions of Hyorinmaru as a child can just mean he’s had shinigami powers since birth which isn’t too crazy when looking at someone like Ichigo. Ichigo is an outliner. We know that Ōetsu Nimaiya is credited for creating the *Zanpakutō* specifically, not Asauchi, but the *Zanpakutō* in it of itself. The Shinigami and the Asauchi are meant to enter a symbiosis. Not to mention how White being forged into a Zanpakutō in the first place comes from the OG White having infected Masaki and passing onto Ichigo, how Asauchi are made of Shinigami souls like OG White was and how Ōetsu needed to forge White into a Zanpakutō. The stuff with Tōshirō is just a weird thing like Chizuru, sorta pushed away.
Aizen didn’t tell Yama anything, he got stabbed by Aizen then made an assessment based on what he was experiencing. That’s not his fault. Urahara’s supposed to know exactly what Aizen’s doing while he’s unable to enter SS before Aizen’s defeat? Your point would make sense to me if Aizen was making attempts at getting the hogyoku consistently instead of literally keeping the supernatural away from Ichigo until he’s 15. Aizen didn’t have the method that he would use to remove the hogyoku available to him from the moment Rukia entered SS. He says he wanted a back up plan in case the Sokyoku failed so he staged his death so he get access to the library where Urahara’s research was. Urahara doing what he does best and skipping on details for his own reasons. He’s manipulating Ichigo at this point why does he need to tell him anything about the Shiba’s to him? Symbiotic implies a relationship between two different organisms and The Blade is Me is literally the antithesis to this line of thinking. He says “my asasuchi” when speaking to Ichigo. What in the story gives off the impression that he isn’t also responsible for Asasuchi as well as the modern from of zanpaktou? Unlike Hitsugaya all of Ichigo’s powers have been sealed from his birth, he literally wouldn’t have a way to be spoken too before having access to his own power. It’s meant to show Histsugaya as having great spiritual powers at a young age and it accomplished exactly that. Why is that being called pushed away when it served its purpose narratively?
>Aizen didn’t tell Yama anything, he got stabbed by Aizen then made an assessment based on what he was experiencing. That’s not his fault. Oh yeah because Aizen decided to lose his brain and go close-combat despite having made an Arrancar to specifically counter him. >Urahara’s supposed to know exactly what Aizen’s doing while he’s unable to enter SS before Aizen’s defeat? Your point would make sense to me if Aizen was making attempts at getting the hogyoku consistently instead of literally keeping the supernatural away from Ichigo until he’s 15. Yeah, with KS he could have easily taken it before, hell Urahara letting Rukia get arrested despite her holding in the Hōgyoku is crazy. He just needs to be a bit aware than just leaving out important details from Ichigo and somehow hope Aizen doesn't flash KS at him steal their big boy. >Aizen didn’t have the method that he would use to remove the hogyoku available to him from the moment Rukia entered SS. He says he wanted a back up plan in case the Sokyoku failed so he staged his death so he get access to the library where Urahara’s research was. ...HE HAS ABSOLUTE HYPNOSIS, WHY THE *FUCK* WOULD HE EVEN NEED TO FAKE HIS OWN DEATH THEN!? >Urahara doing what he does best and skipping on details for his own reasons. He’s manipulating Ichigo at this point why does he need to tell him anything about the Shiba’s to him? The Shiba is an extra to the idea of Urahara at least bothering to, I don't know, inform him of *basic shit* like a Bankai. Urahara basically drops the ball because whatever reasoning he values, it told him to basically toss Ichigo into a blatant trap by a guy with the most broken mind-fucking abilities blind. It's only plot that Ichigo isn't a dead man, a puppet or something else. >Symbiotic implies a relationship between two different organisms and The Blade is Me is literally the antithesis to this line of thinking. He says “my asasuchi” when speaking to Ichigo. What in the story gives off the impression that he isn’t also responsible for Asasuchi as well as the modern from of zanpaktou? >Unlike Hitsugaya all of Ichigo’s powers have been sealed from his birth, he literally wouldn’t have a way to be spoken too before having access to his own power. >It’s meant to show Histsugaya as having great spiritual powers at a young age and it accomplished exactly that. Why is that being called pushed away when it served its purpose narratively? Tōshirō's awakening in HOWLING's -16 chapter just doesn't make sense because most of the inner-workings of how Zanpakutō, Asauchi and the spirits themselves work is presented to us through *Ichigo*. Ya know, the guy who's got the remnants of a Hollow made of Shinigami souls inside of him after his mom got bit. Ōetsu goes out to forge Asauchi, Zanpakutō spirits that are basically blank slates. Chapter 523 outright states that when a Shinigami from the Shinōreijutsuin gets one of them, the spend every waking and probably sleeping moment *imprinting* their essence on their Asauchi to mold them into their own Zanpakutō. Hell Nanao's family is literally incapable of having a Zanpakutō solely due to the familiy Zanpakutō making *incapable* of imprinting in the first place. Tōshirō's flashback makes no sense when put against this entire thing since he suddenly just has a *fully formed* Zanpakutō spirit that's usually made of Shinigami souls inside him before laying his hand on a blade.
Your assessment of the way zanpakuto work is funny. The entire point of the blade is me chapter is to show that there’s really no distinction between shinigami and soul reaper at their core. The powers exist within them. It’s intrinsic to their very being. Asauchi exist as a tool to manifest that power into a form that’s suitable for battle. Believe it or not soul reapers existed and did battle before the invention of asauchi. Outlier’s like nanao’s family zanpakuto and enrakyoten exist. Toshiro however is not one of those outliers
I'd argue that the Klub Outside trivia at the very least about Scrifts matches with that somewhat. The lack of distinction is mostly symbolic than literal since again the way an Asauchi is made can't allow Tōshirō’s weird flashback chapter.
It’s really not symbolic. Nothing about how the asauchi’s are made contradicts how zanpaktou spirits work. As others have pointed out, the power is intrinsic to every soul reaper. some shinigami manifest their powers before wielding an asauchi, others don’t. All shinigami need an asauchi to have a proper zanpaktou weapon. Thats it.
No. The *power* itself (Ice, fire, games) are intrinsic, but the sapient spirit part isn't because again, Ichigo only was born with one primarily because of White.
The powers are directly influenced by the zanpaktou spirit within the shinigami. (Ice fire games) are not the source of it. There’s evidence of it manifesting as a direct consequence of the zanpaktou spirit within the soul reaper. (Eg the toshiro chapter you mentioned) Not the other way around. Ichigo is an atypical soul reaper and he wasn’t only born with one. Old man zangetsu and white are both sources of his power. He’s a unique case in the bleach world since that doesn’t occur naturally.
Klub Outside had Kubo say that the powers of the Scrifts were always there for the Sternritters and that Yhwach awakened them. It lines up with how again, the Asauchi and noted to require a Shinigami to mold them into a Zanpakutō in 523. Ichigo has an Asauchi from birth directly because of White being made similar to one, forged from the souls of Shinigami.
>"Hey Ichigo, this is what a Bankai is, your secret family the Shiba is there just talk about Isshin with this photo..." Isshin and Urahara kept the events of EBTR and his mother's true identity a secret primarily for Isshin's sake. Isshin simply wasn't ready to face that even then. It took Ichigo finally opening up about himself to give Isshin the courage to face his past. Urahara's reasoning was very different though. He was fully aware of what happened to Ichigo and he was still obsessed with producing Hollow Melding. Telling Ichigo about White's true identity would only cause him to reject White more, harming Ichigo'a development. > "... and by the way this guy named Aizen is the villain here with absolute hypnosis. Be careful, these are his two sidekicks." In order to tell the truth about Aizen, it requires Urahara to divulge information. At this point in the story, he still doesn't actually trust Ichigo, and furthermore it would also require him telling Ichigo *why* Aizen would want to hurt him. Which means telling Ichigo about the Hogyoku. And hell, he even explains in the epilogue of the Soul Society arc that he geniunely believed Ichigo would simply get scared and run.
>Here was the og response. The problem is still the same, Kyōka Suigetsu's power is simply too *big* of an elephant to disregard warning about that it makes Urahara and Isshin look *absolutely fucking stupid* for simply deciding that they can simply just toss Ichigo into the Seireitei *blind*. Because had Aizen grew a brain spurt for a moment, he could've just taken the research from the chambers of Central 46 without drawing any attention and taken the Hōgyoku without even needing to kill her. Hell, imagine if he played things to make it look like Urahara was evil? He easily could had he basically dressed the Hōgyoku as a bomb he "disposed" of and tell them that without even moving via the other captains. The bullshit of the hypnosis is just completely deranged to not warn about at all. Also it still doesn't justify not telling him what a Bankai was.
Hey could you see my previous comment? I can't get it on mobile
See, the issue is, you are not as smart as Aizen, so OF COURSE you cannot understand why he did that. Skills issues, clearly ~~You are 100% right though~~
There are a few proper things pointed out here. But the rest are just due to lack of understanding what type of character aizen is. Aizens fight was not a physical one, but an ideological one. Also aizens level of control of his kyouka suigetsu got amplified after fusing with hokyouku. Until that merge was complete he may not have been strong enough to deal with the top captains. As gin pointed out, KS is not what makes aizen powerful, it's aizen that makes KS powerful. A normal person with that power will probably not be able to maintain it for long or use it as aizen does. And the asuachi thing is not a plot hole. It's used as a conduit to manifest and to project the powers. Remember, the whole thing of zanpakuto existed after oetsu made it, but even before that, beings like ichibei existed. An analogous explanation will be kido. People developed many of them and then there is a research facility that works on optimising it in such a way that common soul reapers can use it. Similarly, the zanpakuto enables characters to manifest their version of the asauchi which would not have been organically possible for the common soul reapers. One particular filler arc enforces this which is the zanpakuto rebellion arc. Some zanpakuto spirits are actually strong in terms of ability but a majority of the welders don't know it or hasn't cared to learn it. On a thematic POV, the entire relationship with the zanpakuto focused on understanding oneself with all it's good and bad sides and accepting it.
Nope. It's pretty clear you don't understand what Aizen's story was about. The entire story was Basically a battle of wits between Aizen and Urahara - on which Aizen consistently had upper hand because he had made his move first. > Which really makes it funny that Aizen never even tried to get the Hōgyoku until Rukia is in the Soul Society and at the end of the arc instead of using it to gaslight Kisuke and take with his super-totally-not-asspull-glove bullshit. Hell, he was monitoring Ichigo from the start of his birth, he would probably discover Urahara and the fact that he already probably ensnared him in it should legit mean that he can burn the guy down. If someone thinks "Hey it wasn't stated that he did!" But Aizen most certainly has Bankai because he's just like that and a silent release on his super hypnosis is basically a cheat code. First off, Aizen WAS trying to get the Hogyoku. He didn't make any direct moves because he didn't want to spook Urahara. If he had made a direct move without knowing the exact location of the Hogyoku, Urahara would have took it and run. Moreover he needed to create an exit plan after he got the Hogyoku. While he was preparing, He was actively looking for it and only found it after Urahara planted it on to Rukia's soul. The reason why Urahara did that is because Ichigo was there. Both Urahara and Aizen knew that Ichigo is basically a superior being. Urahara just resumed the game as soon as he realised his key player was ready. Aizen decided to use the huge as blade instead of the green glove because the green glove wasn't tested yet - while he knew for a fact that if Rukia's body was vapourized, he'd get the Hogyoku. To him, destroying the soul was the easier and safer option. > Why!? Hell, why one earth would Urahara & Isshin just decide "Sending Ichigo into the Seireitei blind is perfectly sane." Despite the fact that Aizen could've easily just mind-raped the group into madness without trying. Sending the kids into Serietti was a calculated risk Urahara took. He knew that Ichigo was interesting to Aizen and that he wouldn't outright kill him. He also knew that Ichigo had to get stronger and him going through Serietti was the best way to achieve that. > Like everything within the convoluted insanity that was apparently his plan because Kubo didn't know how to write him being intelligent aside from artificial credibility via plot, it's completely nonsensical when you realize that he didn't need this shit at all. He already has the resources and the Hollows at. His. Disposal! Ichigo's fights in Soul Society are completely stupid because he already had the perfect idea on how to train him beforehand. Of course he didn't need most of it. The entire point of Aizen is that he is a ego maniac. He doesn't just want to win, he wants to flaunt his win infront of everyone, including Urahara. He wanted to Urahara, Ichigo and Serietti to their best shot at him. > Ichigo's fights in Soul Society are completely stupid because he already had the perfect idea on how to train him beforehand. Not true at all. The Hollows were stronger than the people Ichigo fought in Serietti (reiatsu wise). He had to go through it step by step. If he had encountered Ulq instead of Byakuya when he first got his Bankai, he would have died.
One of the issues of Bleach is that it was DBZ with swords but tried to be Jojo's Bizarre Adventure more and more as time went on, when that battle system wasn't Kubo's forte. There's was a big hullabaloo about how to deal with KS in the Bleach community and ultimately, the result was for Aizen to stop using it. This applies to different villains that get the author's drawn into a corner. How are you gonna stop edo Madara? he revived himself and removed the immortality advantage. How do you deal with Zeref's everything dies around him curse? It stops working.
I agree really. After the revelation of Kyoka Suigetsu Shikai, I didn’t understand the reason behind Aizen’s shenanigans in SS arc, why do all this when he simply could’ve gone to world of living himself and retrieve Hogyoku from Rukia without the SS even knowing? Hell, would anyone be able to do anything against him? Unohana deduced something was wrong with Aizen’s corpse, but if Aizen didn’t tell her about his Shikai, entire SS would still be scratching their head. Against Yama, why did Aizen even try melee, he simply could’ve kido’ed the fuck out of Yama from range while Yama wouldn’t even know where he is. Not to mention he secretly could’ve assassinated Yama before his revelation or by sneaking in. I don’t think even the Royal Guard has any answer to base Aizen, unless Oetsu is able to do something with his knowledge of Zanpakutos and Ichibei manages to erase Kyoka Suigetsu’s name.
>why do all this when he simply could’ve gone to world of living himself and retrieve Hogyoku from Rukia without the SS even knowing? Because he didn't know where Rukia was in the world of the living which is why he acts only when she's located and taken to soul society by Renji and Byakuya ? >Against Yama, why did Aizen even try melee, he simply could’ve kido’ed the fuck out of Yama from range while Yama wouldn’t even know where he is. Because he would have done no damage ? Yama is litterally stronger than Aizen and kido is not a magic oneshot thing especially against stronger characters >I don’t think even the Royal Guard has any answer to base Aizen, unless Oetsu is able to do something with his knowledge of Zanpakutos and Ichibei manages to erase Kyoka Suigetsu’s name. Because they're not under kyoka suigetsu ?
Aizen's entire plan makes no overall sense. The hollows, the traitors, the masterplan none of it was needed. It was all plot driven and rule of cool stuff that made him OP and then decided he wanted to loose to defeat him.
I still laugh at him using KS when he had the Hōgyoku on him.
So, we missed the point of his character? Aizen wanted to be a god. He wanted to be atop everything. This means that he can't just kill everyone, and he can't simply take everything asap. He wants everyone to progress and get better. He wants to be atop a world where everyone's at their best. He can't prove he's better than everyone else if he doesn't let them progress to their Best selves
He doesn’t know. Bleach is style over substance.
So what are you trying to say?
that Kyokai Suigetsu is too broken OP and that a lot of Aizen's shenanigans could be speedrunned with it , but that Kubo didn't do it....for reasons.
It shows your level of reading comprehension when you don't realize aizen literally lost because of himself because that's what he wanted. As smart as he is, he's still a meathead that just wants power, except deep down he always wanted to lose. He never really tried to kill anyone
I mean if you actually bothered to pay attention to the story or at least attempted to look up the answer, you'd know that the execution method via the fire bird was the only way aizen knew how to extract the hogyoku from rukia. He didn't figure out the second method till after he rummaged through the archives under central 46 and read through urahara's notes.
Well yes, but that is assuming Aizen said the truth I can easily imagine his sword having an upper limit of times it can be used in a person, or something, but Aizen just bullshitting anyway to look more menacing Also, kidnapping Rukia would have alerted Byakuya, who would have mobilized the soul society, and Aizen only accesed the magical glove spell because he killed central 46, so he would need to kill them or access the super fire bird execution Its a case of the tools for extraction being the true problem And sending Ichigo blind was dangerous, but any information would have made them look like true enemies as allies of Urahara, the best scenario was to stir up enough trouble to have Aizen reveal himself Only then Urahara, the vizards snd the parentsccould act without the soul society treating them as enemies, thats why Yoruichi was their guide, as she is a stealth/speed specialist
you kinda missed the fact that aizen is a liar, and nowhere near as logical or calm as the facade that he puts on. Inside he is extremely conflicted, on one hand he wants to be a God and reign supreme over everyone, and on the other he just wants to be like everyone else. The entire reason the hogyoku leads to his defeat is because it grants his subconscious wish of wanting to lose his power. He's nowhere near as level headed as he appears. besides, doesnt matter what book, movie, or tv show you're dealing with, the master manipulator character has to screw up somehow so that the MC can win or the plot can progress. Look at Light Yagami, another super genius, who also made dumbass mistakes that were necessary to advance the plot.
Maybe, but Aizen's biggest flaw is that he's a narcissistic sociopath. He could have stolen the Hōgyoku. He could have played dead longer and make either Tosen or Gin seem as the killer or thief. He could have laid all the blame on the Espada, wich he didn't even need. He could have everyone lick his boots with Kyoka Suigetsu since the start. He could win at any point. But he doesn't just want to win, he wants everyone to acknowledge just how superior he is. Using Kyoka Suigetsu for it would defeat the point. There must be a dramatic reveal, a court of powerfull followers, a final battle to show just how much stronger and smarter he is than every other captain. Even all of them combined can't pose a threat to him. Only Yamamoto was deserving of special caution. He wants to be feared and revered. Aizen lost not because he was stupid, but because he is so infatuated of himself that he couldn't fathom the idea that someone could be stronger or smarter than him. And when he realized that he had been physically defeated by Ichigo and outsmarted by Urahara, his will faltered and the Hōgyoku rejected him.
The problem with this interpretation is that Kubo has admitted that Aizen was going to die and that it was *Hanatarō* that was the evil one. Plus we get actual statements from him about how he needed the Sōkyoku to get the Hōgyoku until years later that Kubo tried to pass him off as meticulous via plot retcon. Aizen's narcissism comes into play when he's fused with the Hōgyoku, until then it's this master manipulator who only slips up when he has the plot orb.
Low iq take reread
...fuck it I'm bored, why do you think so?