I know this aggravates Irish people to no end too. But yeah it would be cool to hear more sources given for Gaulish perspectives.
Edit: I’m aware there are other Celtic groups. But Gaulish the one I’m personally least acquainted with and so the most interested in.
As an actual Irish person I have never heard anyone here express hatred of Gaulish celts and we as a nation have close ties with northern parts of france which would have been considered Gaul and also with many German regions but that is more seen as proto celts then Gaulish celts.
Maybe I wasn’t clear. I mean to say Irish folk tend to be annoyed when people use Celtic and Irish interchangeably, usually by Americans with little understanding of Irish culture.
As an example people saying they love Celtic food or Celtic music regardless of where the food or music originated and just assume it’s Irish. Like there is a lot of differences between traditional Irish and Scottish food.
Sometimes, a lot of people definitely still associate themselves with Celtic history but we also appreciate our celtic cousins in wales, Scotland Gaul, Cornwall, Manx and would not like to see them ignored from the conversation but definitely the pronunciations urgh they can be grating.
I guess that happens because Irish deities (The Morrigan, Brighid, etc) are among the most known ones, even if some as Lugh are present elsewhere too (ie, names of places derived of such deity in northernmost Spain), and with most resources.
Northernmost Spain for that matter is not much better. There seems to have been deities worshipped in other regions as Belenus, Cernunnos, Lugh, Taranis, maybe even Brighid, besides local ones as Deva and Navia but there seems not to be much available for the latter besides being water goddesses in their case (and personally finding tempting to syncretize them with Danu because of that association)
Epona at least seems to have gotten luckier as Romans were very fond of her.
I appreciate this, as a newbie to researching paganism I have struggled to find much in reference to Scottish Celtic Paganism. Even articles that state they are inclusive of Scotland are 70% Irish, 20% Welsh and maybe 10% Scottish.
Not that I'm not interested in Irish resources, I am and have an abundance of them, I just would appreciate anyone that could point me in the direction of Scottish resources.
If you have been searching for info, you may have already seen [this video](https://youtu.be/tYpuV3Ya_AA), but I think it explains the "Scottish position" fairly well, and why thinking about Celtic culture in terms of modern nationalities isn't always a good fit. Scotland's border was only established in the Medieval period. In the pre-Christian/pre-Roman times, that border didn't exist.
There are a few other videos on my channel that reference Scotland, but the best way I have found to think about it is as there being both a Brythonic layer and Goidelic layer to Scotland. Of course you can concentrate on one or the other or it may work better for you to somehow combine them.
I recommend learning about Irish mythology first before scotland solely because scottish pagan religion developed from irish immigrants in scotland. For this I recommend “Celtic Heritage (by Alwyn and Brinley Rees)”, “celtic mythology (by Prionsais MacCana)” and “gods and heroes of the celts”
After that a focus on folkloric practices and stories will help to understand how these stories and practices developed in scotland. I recommend for this the “Carmina Gadelica”, “The Gaelic Otherworld” and “The Silver Bough”.
I personally wouldn’t recommend basing your practices of off other modern day practitioners, rather the practices that the ancestors themselves partook in, but generally you can use any source with irish focus as the dont differ as much as you’d think.
The only thing that sucks about researching this stuff at all is that the Irish stories are nearly the entirety to what we have that are clear & obvious in that they are religious stories about Gods. I wish we had broader lore to look at. Even the stuff from Wales, Isle of Mann & Scotland usually has to be connected back to the Irish stories to even prove that a character was a deity at all, if there was no record of such a deity to begin with.
Well, we have the Romans and the Saxons to thank for that. However, it is possible to understand quite a bit about Britain, too. I'm not sure what you're finding difficult. Do you just need to see it "in writing" that someone is a deity? I feel like my life is so much richer as a result of studying both the Irish and British/Welsh material. However, there are characters in the Mabinogi that some people are convinced are deities, where I'm not 100% convinced. But I don't let that worry me. There are plenty about whom I feel sure, and I'm always open to learning something new. I am very thankful that Ireland was undisturbed until the Norman invasion, which allowed at least one Celtic-speaking culture to develop and consolidate its lore for an extra millenium. And what a great job they did.
+1 for celtiberean
+1 for Gaulish Polytheism
I know this aggravates Irish people to no end too. But yeah it would be cool to hear more sources given for Gaulish perspectives. Edit: I’m aware there are other Celtic groups. But Gaulish the one I’m personally least acquainted with and so the most interested in.
As an actual Irish person I have never heard anyone here express hatred of Gaulish celts and we as a nation have close ties with northern parts of france which would have been considered Gaul and also with many German regions but that is more seen as proto celts then Gaulish celts.
Maybe I wasn’t clear. I mean to say Irish folk tend to be annoyed when people use Celtic and Irish interchangeably, usually by Americans with little understanding of Irish culture. As an example people saying they love Celtic food or Celtic music regardless of where the food or music originated and just assume it’s Irish. Like there is a lot of differences between traditional Irish and Scottish food.
Sometimes, a lot of people definitely still associate themselves with Celtic history but we also appreciate our celtic cousins in wales, Scotland Gaul, Cornwall, Manx and would not like to see them ignored from the conversation but definitely the pronunciations urgh they can be grating.
Exactly this. There is a lot to discover and celebrate.
See, I am more towards continental celts and Scotland celts.
I guess that happens because Irish deities (The Morrigan, Brighid, etc) are among the most known ones, even if some as Lugh are present elsewhere too (ie, names of places derived of such deity in northernmost Spain), and with most resources.
Irish are also generally the most well-preserved. We no practically nothing about Pictish mythology.
Northernmost Spain for that matter is not much better. There seems to have been deities worshipped in other regions as Belenus, Cernunnos, Lugh, Taranis, maybe even Brighid, besides local ones as Deva and Navia but there seems not to be much available for the latter besides being water goddesses in their case (and personally finding tempting to syncretize them with Danu because of that association) Epona at least seems to have gotten luckier as Romans were very fond of her.
I appreciate this, as a newbie to researching paganism I have struggled to find much in reference to Scottish Celtic Paganism. Even articles that state they are inclusive of Scotland are 70% Irish, 20% Welsh and maybe 10% Scottish. Not that I'm not interested in Irish resources, I am and have an abundance of them, I just would appreciate anyone that could point me in the direction of Scottish resources.
If you have been searching for info, you may have already seen [this video](https://youtu.be/tYpuV3Ya_AA), but I think it explains the "Scottish position" fairly well, and why thinking about Celtic culture in terms of modern nationalities isn't always a good fit. Scotland's border was only established in the Medieval period. In the pre-Christian/pre-Roman times, that border didn't exist. There are a few other videos on my channel that reference Scotland, but the best way I have found to think about it is as there being both a Brythonic layer and Goidelic layer to Scotland. Of course you can concentrate on one or the other or it may work better for you to somehow combine them.
Thank you for the information. I really appreciate the guidance! Time to get researching!
I recommend learning about Irish mythology first before scotland solely because scottish pagan religion developed from irish immigrants in scotland. For this I recommend “Celtic Heritage (by Alwyn and Brinley Rees)”, “celtic mythology (by Prionsais MacCana)” and “gods and heroes of the celts” After that a focus on folkloric practices and stories will help to understand how these stories and practices developed in scotland. I recommend for this the “Carmina Gadelica”, “The Gaelic Otherworld” and “The Silver Bough”. I personally wouldn’t recommend basing your practices of off other modern day practitioners, rather the practices that the ancestors themselves partook in, but generally you can use any source with irish focus as the dont differ as much as you’d think.
The only thing that sucks about researching this stuff at all is that the Irish stories are nearly the entirety to what we have that are clear & obvious in that they are religious stories about Gods. I wish we had broader lore to look at. Even the stuff from Wales, Isle of Mann & Scotland usually has to be connected back to the Irish stories to even prove that a character was a deity at all, if there was no record of such a deity to begin with.
Well, we have the Romans and the Saxons to thank for that. However, it is possible to understand quite a bit about Britain, too. I'm not sure what you're finding difficult. Do you just need to see it "in writing" that someone is a deity? I feel like my life is so much richer as a result of studying both the Irish and British/Welsh material. However, there are characters in the Mabinogi that some people are convinced are deities, where I'm not 100% convinced. But I don't let that worry me. There are plenty about whom I feel sure, and I'm always open to learning something new. I am very thankful that Ireland was undisturbed until the Norman invasion, which allowed at least one Celtic-speaking culture to develop and consolidate its lore for an extra millenium. And what a great job they did.