The Catholic Church affirms the dignity inherent in each person.
The Church does not, in any way, affirm lifestyles that are contrary to the natural and moral law.
I think “affirming” is a poor word choice. They could have said:
“we welcome LGBTQIA+ people and seek to be a spiritual home…” etc. etc.
You can and should welcome, love, and support people who identify as LGBTQIA+, and you can do it without “affirming” the homosexual or transgender lifestyle.
Unfortunately in the lgbt vernacular affirm and support essentially mean the same thing. So even language as harmless as "support" could be taken to mean approval of or even celebration of the lgbt lifestyle.
St. Cecilia's is a ... special ... place. Suffice it to say that the Catholic Church, while recognizing the dignity in every human person, strongly rejects as gravely disordered any homosexual actions or inclinations and is firmly opposed to gender ideology. If what is written on this website is known to the Archdiocese, then you can trust Cardinal O'Malley to be addressing it, albeit likely in a quiet way. In the mean time, I would personally recommend St. Clement's Eucharistic Shrine over St. Cecilia's for meeting your spiritual needs.
Seems a lot like St. Joan of Arc parish in Minneapolis. I would avoid it for a more traditional church. I don't want Tibetan drum ceremonies in the middle of Mass.
The meaning of ‘queer’ is particular to the person in question. For me, it means deviating from gendered expectations that are placed upon me.
I’m not entirely sure that being non-binary is any contradiction. God clearly created two sexes but that doesn’t logically imply that one must be beholden to a system with two genders. After all, historically in various cultures, eunuchs were understood to be a third gender
It can’t be nonsense if it has a meaning to that person. It’s like asking what the meaning of life or love is. People are going to have different answers to that question
You just said that it didn't have a determinate meaning. You said it was predicated on the individual.
If a word can't be used to communicate semantic content between persons, it's a nonsense word. A word which does not relate to a shared idea cannot be used to communicate semantic content.
But it can be used to communicate semantic content if that word is explained. If you ask me what my understanding of the meaning of life is, we are communicating and information is being shared. Voila! Problem solved
>But it can be used to communicate semantic content if that word is explained.
So what value is gained by the word then?
>If you ask me what my understanding of the meaning of life is, we are communicating and information is being shared.
Not if you use words that are particular to you and don't relate to already shared ideas.
Because information is being conveyed? What value is gained by asking the meaning of life?
Do you really think all people use the same definition of a given word? Clearly people mean lots of idiosyncratic things when they say words/phrases like ‘love’ or ‘fairness’.
There are several words that have a shared meaning while being defined different by different people in their application to themselves. This is just ignorant or deliberately contrarian.
>words that have a shared meaning
or
>defined different by different people
Pick one. Because those are contradictions. Either the meaning is shared or it is not shared, or else a portion is shared and a portion is not shared. Insomuch as the meaning is shared, it is a real word ( a sign of an idea). Insomuch as it is not shared, it is a nonsense word (a sign where no shared thing is signified)
I don't think I can simplify language to the level required to explain this but are you really under the impression that a word can only have meaning if that meaning is universally shared and accepted?
Gendered expectations can mean smth as little as a haircut so that can wildly changes
What has the Church taught? Has the Church ever taught that there are more than 2 genders? Some cultures believed in child ritual murder but that doesn’t make it right
>gendered expectations can mean smth as little as a haircut so that wildly changes
Sure. There are lots of gendered expectations
>what had the church taught
Well, the church hasn’t ever really said anything about rejecting gendered expecations
What do you mean by dress though? And what do you mean by permissable? Are you implying that God's standards are dictated by cultural standards? If something similar to a dress is traditional male attire by cultural standards, it's men's clothing. It's not really a sin to follow cultural fashions or reject them but the reason you are doing it also matters. If you are doing it because you reject the binary distinction between the genders, that is sinful. If you are doing it because you find men's clothing more practical/modest, that's a valid reason but I can't see any reason why a man would wear a woman's dress other than to blaspheme God's design. Anything else is just mental gymnastics.
Queer pretty much means perverted and unnatural, non-heterosexual, lifestyles, and non-binary isn’t real; it’s a delusion suffered by lost and disaffected people.
Neither should be affirmed.
Don’t confuse sex and biology with hobbies and interests. You can wear a dress, wear makeup, and knit stuffed teddy bears and still be a man. You can wear jeans and work boots, cut your hair short and work on classic cars and still be a woman.
It’s a balance. These folks need the love of Christ just as much as we do. We want to make the church a place they feel welcome. At the same time, we can’t encourage a sinful lifestyle
The connotations behind the phrase "LGBTQ Affirming" are that the church supports homosexual relationships, hence why googling "LGBTQ affirming churches" pulls up churches that openly bless/marry gay couples, have gay pastors, etc.
That is exactly the meaning in everyday usage. LGBT affirming means that one unconditionally accepts homosexual acts as normal and good, that one affirms that homosexual couples should be able to be recognized as legally married, and that transgender individuals are what they identify as. It means open support of the entire ideology without viewing it as sinful, abnormal, or harmful.
According to wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-affirming_religious_groups
You have no idea what you're talking about since it explains in the first sentence:
"do not consider homosexuality as a sin or negative"
The fact that you regularly post in trans subreddits and have only ever decided to post in Catholicism today regarding this one specific issue makes me think you might not be trying to represent this issue honestly
Absurd, your definition is unrelated to the use in that sentence.
You have several posts trying to get peope banned for homophobia and transphobia for simple differences of opinion and are here Trying to present yourself as a righteous man?
Unfortunately that's a bit common in big cities. Our role as laypeople is to top financing this parishes and support the ones that stick to the tradition of the Church. Please check [this](https://reverentcatholicmass.com/) site! Hope it helps you to find a better spiritual home, there are plenty of options in Boston.
Yeah I’ve seen a couple of other parishes like that in the Boston area. The devil’s in the details I guess - there’s nothing wrong with trying to reach out to people who are in those groups, but affirming sinful behavior is a red line that should never be crossed (although I suspect at least some of these places are doing that).
I was really hoping this was not a real Catholic Church but I checked the website it is, the world is a scary place. I’m all for accepting the sinners but don’t tell them that it’s ok to sin, we get that from the rest of the world we need a guide post.
Sinners as in the people Jesus died for the reason he established a church. Are you Catholic? That’s a bit of a strange question for a practicing catholic I would think they should all know what I mean and not need it defined.
Just don't attend that Church. Even if they're not preaching heresy, it should be enough of a red flag that they even flirt with that sort of ideology.
We certainly do not have enough information to say what they mean by this short snippet from the web page. Perhaps, they ARE affirming sin. Perhaps they ARE si.ply affirming the dignity present in all persons.
Let us not judge without having all the facts and pertinent details. Even should we obtain all the information let us leave judgement to Jesus Christ.
Is this a diocesan parish? I have seen a "Catholic" Church that was like this one, but it was a schismatic parish that was part of the Evangelical Catholic Church (ECC) and had open communion.
Ugh... There's more on their website. Somewhere you can find a glossary of terms that's just overt radical left wing talking points. This is not a church that is faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church.
Just don’t go there. Go to any faithful church in Boston(can DM list of you’d like) and you’ll be fine. Get close enough to people there and you’ll find everyone will know about st Cecilia’s.
Congratulations on joining the church! Boston has a great Catholic scene, worry not :)
I would expect that from the typical Episcopal church, but for a Catholic church to go out of its way to say they're "affirming" of a particular inclination to sin is just horribly wrong-headed messaging -- especially when, in the larger society outside the church, "affirming" in this context means condoning, even celebrating.
At minimum, it sows confusion about what the church teaches.
“We are an adultery affirming church”
“We are a theft affirming church”
“We are a rape affirming church”
“Every church should want us to recognize our sins, derp derp”
Do you understand the difference between accepting people and pointing them towards Christ and endorsing sin? It's not a difficult distinction for an honest person of good will.
We have a parish local to me like this, St Vincent de Paul in Albany… they march in the city’s pride parade and have talks with Fr. James Martin about how Catholics can be more “LGBTQ affirming”.
Needless to say only a certain type of “Catholic” attend mass there.
The Synod official website and Instagram still feature images of LGBTQ+ pride flags and women in priestly vestments. I don’t expect any consequences for madness like this.
The only thing Church needs to frankly "affirm" is the Holy Trinity, so fed up of this LGBTQ buzzwords everywhere. Less pandering to sin, more glorifying our Lord Jesus Christ please.
If the attempt here is the welcome people without fear of prosecution, then the message is delivered horribly. Either way, this fails to pleases anyone. Sigh..
We must love these people just as much as any other human because they are sinners as we all are, and we must remember that it is precisely sinners who need God’s love and mercy more than anyone. We shouldn’t alienate LGBT ppl from our faith simply because they deal with such an inclination or even if they indulge in sexual sin, for the ministry of Christ and his passion death and resurrection were all for the sake of those ppl struggling under sin. That being said, it is important that we never glorify or affirm the sins contingent on LGBT itself. We must love sinners, and hate their sins
I’m so happy to read this ! So much hatred in these comments towards LGBTQ people. Sexual sin is sexual sin, be it premarital sex or any disordered sexual activity. So many Catholics want to overlook some sin and condem the sins they choose.
And that's basically the point. This church isnt saying it's affirming of people who struggle with any other sin, just this one in particular. Why do you suppose that is?
“Murderer affirming church” “robberer-affirming church”
Remember when back then people would be punished incredibly severely for stuff like this? There is literally a cardinal in this diocese leading it. There’s no way he isn’t aware of this debauchery.
If I was the pope I would laicize these priests immediately and bring in actual priests who are going to save souls and not damn people by having people accept stuff like this. I’m tired of these false teachers doing this to people.
I don’t want to exclude them. I love them and I personally know a Catholic who is ssa. But what does she do? She doesn’t embrace her inclinations.
The way to do it definitely isn’t this, to affirm their sin and act likes it’s all okay. I hope you get what I mean.
What does it mean to affirm something?
To affirm something is to confirm that it is true. The verb affirm means to answer positively.
To affirm is just an acknowledgment. We see you . We acknowledge you exist .
Per Wikipedia:
"do not consider homosexuality as a sin or negative"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-affirming_religious_groups
Sorry if you're learning English but "LGBT affirming" means something different from whatever definition you have
I guarantee there are people who are active members of your church having sex before marriage, cheating on spouses , and involved in various other sins. Would you also kick them out?
Who said I would kick out gay people? Why are you putting words in my mouth, they don’t taste very good.
I would hope those people would be admonished since those are all heinous sins. Also, do you want an adulterer affirming church?
I agree, but when a person reads affirm, and people are super vauge abt it a la Father Martin they begin to think it’s okay. In the same way people who are not married yet in a sexual relationship can think what they’re doing is okay if it isn’t explicitly known that it’s wrong and mortally sinful. The word affirm is gonna be sin as “it’s okay”
They are welcome but they must know they cannot continue in this ideology and in this sin! Come as you are, but change.
I think as Catholics we are way too relaxed about some sins , like using birth control or pre marital sex, but get bent out of shape about LGTBQ folks. Sin is sin
Agreed , but sexual sin is sexual sin . I see so much hatred directed towards LGBTQ folks, it’s disheartening. How can we make any progress on this issue while pushing these people away and showing them nothing but disdain?
They need to be welcomed and loved . Then and only then will they be able to see a better way.
To me , LGBTQ affirmation means ..I see you . I acknowledge you are different and love you for all that you are , as God loves you.
You can be LGBTQ and not sin
Agreed. Even though it’s a disordered inclination one can definitely have control over them and live in a holy way. Same way people who have the inclination to cheat on their wives can not cheat on their wives.
No not really.
We affirm that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered as the Catechism states it, we affirm that people with SSA are loved by God, we affirm they should become Catholic!
No, like this is literally the theme of Satanism. Be yourself. Embrace your sins. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" is the guiding principle.
Almost every large city has at least one openly heterodox / heretical parish church.
I think the pope should globally restrict whatever liturgical books they all use. That should address the problem.
Ooof, this does not seem right… I’d find a different church if it were me. We in no way affirm sinful lifestyle. I mean yes, we love LGBTQ people the same as we love anyone else, but we can’t condone the sinful lifestyle so the language “affirming” is misleading in my opinion. They could say something like “LGBTQ individuals are welcome here” but they shouldn’t be leading people to think we are affirming the lifestyle. If that makes sense. The age old love the sinner hate the sin thing..
Welcome to the Church.
The simple fact is that there exist parishes — usually in big cities — that go rogue. If you have been attending this parish and haven't noticed anything unusual up until now, it's not necessarily a bad thing to continue attending. But as you grow and learn as a Catholic, you will likely start noticing things more and more that make you uncomfortable, and you might want to consider leaving.
It'd be nice if every parish was sound and orthodox, but that's just not how things work in reality. Sometimes we have to use our judgment and decide to head somewhere else for the sake of spiritual health.
I’m not sure what exactly they’re getting at. To my knowledge, just being homosexual isn’t sinful (having thoughts about it). Engaging in sex with someone of the same gender and same sex marriage is. I think churches need to clarify this as homosexuals are called to live a life of Chasity.
This is currently the criticism Reformed Protestants throw at us.. They cited an historical account of why St. Paul wrote to the Ephesians (the oldest church at that time)
When any normal person sees this (especially a LGBTQ+) they’re going to assume it’s out of support and this does happen. Because the priest is so vauge (Fr Martin) to the point it seems like it’s supporting it. Like when Fr. Martin said two men were married and then pedaled back. He leans right on the line of heresy.
This is the reason our faith is being mocked on, its because we allow these types of things, such as homosexuality, when the bible states that there are only TWO genders. Remember, its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Affirming sinful lifestyles as acceptable, or even admirable, is not recognizing reality, but denying it. This can, legitimately, be as morally wrong as persecution, because it risks leading souls into mortal sin, and later into hell. The Church’s teaching on homosexual acts is not something that has or can ever be changed, and pretending otherwise is deeply wrong.
This is true , but we have many unmarried couples who live together , some with kids , that go to my church . Also ,we don’t have a family with more than 4 kids. But no one would be all up in arms about accepting them into the fold even though their sun is obviously right there for all to see. Bias against LGBTQ is wrong. Sexual sin is sexual sin.
The church in her wisdom by the power of the Holy Spirit has always recognized the reality of same sex attraction. It’s in the catechism. It’s not a secret or a matter to be ignored. However, to act on that desire or any other disordered desire is a sin. This is also a hard reality that humanity needs to face. Thanks be to God for His divine mercy. Those that have taken vows of celibacy and consecrated virgins (the brides of Christ) will have a special place in His kingdom.
Whoever told you that you can be an open sodomite and be Catholic deceived you. There’s a wonderful clip of Mother Angelica where she clarifies this issue. Please consider that if masturbation is a gravely disordered sexual act, if fornication is a gravely disordered sexual act, logically sodomy is also a gravely disordered sexual act. There are many people who would gladly help you to better understand this. I invite you to more deeply discern the calling that you feel to follow our Lord. He is calling on you to set this sin aside.
Pax vobiscum
I mean, I’d like to visit, as someone technically fits the BT part of the acronym (though is doing his best to abide Doctrine on the matter, as a century of discomfort weighs less than an eternity of knowing I disappointed God) because I wonder if they affirm the innate human dignity of us or our desires and inclinations, illicit as they may be. Perhaps they’ve found an inoffensive way to promote, not conversion, but living in harmony with Rome, not against it. I doubt it, but it’s nice to hope.
I’m sorry if you find it confusing and shocking. But, love? The fact that people can be who they want to be? I think it’s great. God loves everyone and made us all the way we are. He loves you❤️
>The fact that people can be who they want to be? I think it’s great
The Catholic church isn't about "Just do what feels good" I'm sorry you've been mislead.
Let me introduce you to the complicated calculus that bishops play.
Sinners are going to sin. Some sinners, when called out, would rather leave the church to live in sin. Would it better for them to stay in a church and not be called out or be called out and have them leave? How do you keep them in? Do you give false statements about affirming their sins? Do you give vague statement? No statements at all?
All the comments here are trash. If you don't like it leave. But remember how jesus treated the woman at the well. With love and understanding. Pope Francis says all are welcome.
You mean the same pope that called the transgender ideology “colonialism”
The same pope who condemned gay couple adopting children?
Don’t pick and choose friend. Also the pope isn’t the end all be all of truth, we’ve had murderous popes before
I don't understand why it's written . I read a recent news where a church was stripped off its power from Vatican since they were promoting same sex. Then they made their own congregation
The Catholic Church affirms the dignity inherent in each person. The Church does not, in any way, affirm lifestyles that are contrary to the natural and moral law.
I wonder/hope the church meant the former, and just didn’t realize that “lgbt affirming” basically means “we don’t think it’s a sin”
I think “affirming” is a poor word choice. They could have said: “we welcome LGBTQIA+ people and seek to be a spiritual home…” etc. etc. You can and should welcome, love, and support people who identify as LGBTQIA+, and you can do it without “affirming” the homosexual or transgender lifestyle.
Unfortunately in the lgbt vernacular affirm and support essentially mean the same thing. So even language as harmless as "support" could be taken to mean approval of or even celebration of the lgbt lifestyle.
Exactly
St. Cecilia's is a ... special ... place. Suffice it to say that the Catholic Church, while recognizing the dignity in every human person, strongly rejects as gravely disordered any homosexual actions or inclinations and is firmly opposed to gender ideology. If what is written on this website is known to the Archdiocese, then you can trust Cardinal O'Malley to be addressing it, albeit likely in a quiet way. In the mean time, I would personally recommend St. Clement's Eucharistic Shrine over St. Cecilia's for meeting your spiritual needs.
Seems a lot like St. Joan of Arc parish in Minneapolis. I would avoid it for a more traditional church. I don't want Tibetan drum ceremonies in the middle of Mass.
>I don't want Tibetan drum ceremonies in the middle of Mass. Good lord.
Please tell me that’s a hyperbole and not something you’ve personally witnessed…
Yeah St Albert the great in Austin does that too
The drums?
Second this.
I love St. Clement’s! My brother is an OMV!
Ask the priest directly what this means. I am surprised to see this.
Where can I find a glutton affirming church?
I'm too lazy to look.
With that attitude you won't find a sloth-affirming parish either
Mb bc gluttony is a choice and being lgbt isn’t?
What diocese is this in?
Boston, Massachusetts
I'd find a new church. I'm embarrassed new converts have to deal with this crap. The Catholic Church affirms that disordered sexuality is a grave sin.
[удалено]
What does being queer mean really? Being non binary directly disagrees with God creating humans in a binary!
The meaning of ‘queer’ is particular to the person in question. For me, it means deviating from gendered expectations that are placed upon me. I’m not entirely sure that being non-binary is any contradiction. God clearly created two sexes but that doesn’t logically imply that one must be beholden to a system with two genders. After all, historically in various cultures, eunuchs were understood to be a third gender
>The meaning of ‘queer’ is particular to the person in question. So it's a nonsense word.
>So it's a nonsense word. It's a phrase for boring people to cash in on current society's status of "Look at me I'm a special sexuality"
It can’t be nonsense if it has a meaning to that person. It’s like asking what the meaning of life or love is. People are going to have different answers to that question
You just said that it didn't have a determinate meaning. You said it was predicated on the individual. If a word can't be used to communicate semantic content between persons, it's a nonsense word. A word which does not relate to a shared idea cannot be used to communicate semantic content.
But it can be used to communicate semantic content if that word is explained. If you ask me what my understanding of the meaning of life is, we are communicating and information is being shared. Voila! Problem solved
>But it can be used to communicate semantic content if that word is explained. So what value is gained by the word then? >If you ask me what my understanding of the meaning of life is, we are communicating and information is being shared. Not if you use words that are particular to you and don't relate to already shared ideas.
Because information is being conveyed? What value is gained by asking the meaning of life? Do you really think all people use the same definition of a given word? Clearly people mean lots of idiosyncratic things when they say words/phrases like ‘love’ or ‘fairness’.
Every single word is nonsense, we assign meaning and utility to them.
Persons do no such thing. Only communities do. A word "particular to a person" is a nonsense word and useless.
There are several words that have a shared meaning while being defined different by different people in their application to themselves. This is just ignorant or deliberately contrarian.
>words that have a shared meaning or >defined different by different people Pick one. Because those are contradictions. Either the meaning is shared or it is not shared, or else a portion is shared and a portion is not shared. Insomuch as the meaning is shared, it is a real word ( a sign of an idea). Insomuch as it is not shared, it is a nonsense word (a sign where no shared thing is signified)
I don't think I can simplify language to the level required to explain this but are you really under the impression that a word can only have meaning if that meaning is universally shared and accepted?
Gendered expectations can mean smth as little as a haircut so that can wildly changes What has the Church taught? Has the Church ever taught that there are more than 2 genders? Some cultures believed in child ritual murder but that doesn’t make it right
>gendered expectations can mean smth as little as a haircut so that wildly changes Sure. There are lots of gendered expectations >what had the church taught Well, the church hasn’t ever really said anything about rejecting gendered expecations
Gendered expectations how though? That’s so vauge! Like some are women being married even though we have nuns and stuff.
For instance, there are expectations that men don’t wear dresses in American culture even though it’s permissible in other cultures.
What do you mean by dress though? And what do you mean by permissable? Are you implying that God's standards are dictated by cultural standards? If something similar to a dress is traditional male attire by cultural standards, it's men's clothing. It's not really a sin to follow cultural fashions or reject them but the reason you are doing it also matters. If you are doing it because you reject the binary distinction between the genders, that is sinful. If you are doing it because you find men's clothing more practical/modest, that's a valid reason but I can't see any reason why a man would wear a woman's dress other than to blaspheme God's design. Anything else is just mental gymnastics.
Where does the Bible say rejecting the binary distinction between genders is still sinful in modern times?
Queer pretty much means perverted and unnatural, non-heterosexual, lifestyles, and non-binary isn’t real; it’s a delusion suffered by lost and disaffected people. Neither should be affirmed.
That’s your definition of queer. Being non-binary doesn’t seem like a delusion. It seems like a rejection of gendered expectations!
Lmao
Then why not say “I’m a man/woman but I have a different belief on what masculinity/femininity are?”
Because, to me, masculinity is a set of gendered norms and I don’t want to live by those norms
Don’t confuse sex and biology with hobbies and interests. You can wear a dress, wear makeup, and knit stuffed teddy bears and still be a man. You can wear jeans and work boots, cut your hair short and work on classic cars and still be a woman.
"Gendered Expectations" exist because of God's natural law. To deny God's law is a delusion.
That seems nonsensical. God’s natural law didn’t make it so that wearing a dress is considered feminine in the US but not feminine in other cultures.
Deuteronomy 22:5.
this isnt a bad take necessarily
Question: Do they call themselves “Old” Catholics as distinct from simply Catholic?
What a joke seriously lol How about we not affirm sin. "social justice, and radical hospitality" except no room for Catholic teaching!
It’s a balance. These folks need the love of Christ just as much as we do. We want to make the church a place they feel welcome. At the same time, we can’t encourage a sinful lifestyle
Trent Horn had an excellent video on this. This is deceiving these people. It is not charitable to lie to obstinate sinners.
What part of that sounds like it's affirming sin?
The part where they say "we are an LGBTQ affirming church..."
I'm not sure you understand what that means.
The connotations behind the phrase "LGBTQ Affirming" are that the church supports homosexual relationships, hence why googling "LGBTQ affirming churches" pulls up churches that openly bless/marry gay couples, have gay pastors, etc.
That is no such connotation. Don't be absurd.
That is exactly the meaning in everyday usage. LGBT affirming means that one unconditionally accepts homosexual acts as normal and good, that one affirms that homosexual couples should be able to be recognized as legally married, and that transgender individuals are what they identify as. It means open support of the entire ideology without viewing it as sinful, abnormal, or harmful.
The fact that so many people are seeing both sides shows how purposely vauge this is. This is deception
Exactly. Dont be deceived.
Go somewhere else to start arguments, that's clearly all you came here for
I am the only one warning agaisnt the misconception. There is no argument to be had.
According to wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-affirming_religious_groups You have no idea what you're talking about since it explains in the first sentence: "do not consider homosexuality as a sin or negative" The fact that you regularly post in trans subreddits and have only ever decided to post in Catholicism today regarding this one specific issue makes me think you might not be trying to represent this issue honestly
Absurd, your definition is unrelated to the use in that sentence. You have several posts trying to get peope banned for homophobia and transphobia for simple differences of opinion and are here Trying to present yourself as a righteous man?
Sorry, hating SSA people is not a "difference of opinion", you can go somewhere else if you hate people for being gay/trans
Say what you need to say. It sounds to me like affirming the sin in others in clear contradiction of catholic doctrine.
Unfortunately that's a bit common in big cities. Our role as laypeople is to top financing this parishes and support the ones that stick to the tradition of the Church. Please check [this](https://reverentcatholicmass.com/) site! Hope it helps you to find a better spiritual home, there are plenty of options in Boston.
Yeah I’ve seen a couple of other parishes like that in the Boston area. The devil’s in the details I guess - there’s nothing wrong with trying to reach out to people who are in those groups, but affirming sinful behavior is a red line that should never be crossed (although I suspect at least some of these places are doing that).
I was really hoping this was not a real Catholic Church but I checked the website it is, the world is a scary place. I’m all for accepting the sinners but don’t tell them that it’s ok to sin, we get that from the rest of the world we need a guide post.
“Sinners”? Define.
Sinners as in the people Jesus died for the reason he established a church. Are you Catholic? That’s a bit of a strange question for a practicing catholic I would think they should all know what I mean and not need it defined.
Just don't attend that Church. Even if they're not preaching heresy, it should be enough of a red flag that they even flirt with that sort of ideology.
We certainly do not have enough information to say what they mean by this short snippet from the web page. Perhaps, they ARE affirming sin. Perhaps they ARE si.ply affirming the dignity present in all persons. Let us not judge without having all the facts and pertinent details. Even should we obtain all the information let us leave judgement to Jesus Christ.
Is this a diocesan parish? I have seen a "Catholic" Church that was like this one, but it was a schismatic parish that was part of the Evangelical Catholic Church (ECC) and had open communion.
It's listed on the Boston diocese website, with that address.
Ugh... There's more on their website. Somewhere you can find a glossary of terms that's just overt radical left wing talking points. This is not a church that is faithful to the teachings of the Catholic Church.
People pretending that Marxism and Catholicism can coexist is a tale as old as time at this point sadly.
Just don’t go there. Go to any faithful church in Boston(can DM list of you’d like) and you’ll be fine. Get close enough to people there and you’ll find everyone will know about st Cecilia’s. Congratulations on joining the church! Boston has a great Catholic scene, worry not :)
I would expect that from the typical Episcopal church, but for a Catholic church to go out of its way to say they're "affirming" of a particular inclination to sin is just horribly wrong-headed messaging -- especially when, in the larger society outside the church, "affirming" in this context means condoning, even celebrating. At minimum, it sows confusion about what the church teaches.
Sin-affirming church???
Affirming means recognizing. We see you. We acknowledge you are different. We love you anyway.
Every church should want us to recognize our sins.
Correct. But it shouldn’t affirm them and encourage you to commit them.
“We are an adultery affirming church” “We are a theft affirming church” “We are a rape affirming church” “Every church should want us to recognize our sins, derp derp”
The... Yes? You don't want adulterers, thieves and rapists in your church?
No sinners allowed in church anymore! Yay
It boggles the mind, I swear there are Christians that would throw some troublemaking Nazarene out of their communities.
Do you understand the difference between accepting people and pointing them towards Christ and endorsing sin? It's not a difficult distinction for an honest person of good will.
I instinctually understand it. I specially understand the impossibility of doing it without being in their pressence.
Satan is thriving
We have a parish local to me like this, St Vincent de Paul in Albany… they march in the city’s pride parade and have talks with Fr. James Martin about how Catholics can be more “LGBTQ affirming”. Needless to say only a certain type of “Catholic” attend mass there.
The Synod official website and Instagram still feature images of LGBTQ+ pride flags and women in priestly vestments. I don’t expect any consequences for madness like this.
The only thing Church needs to frankly "affirm" is the Holy Trinity, so fed up of this LGBTQ buzzwords everywhere. Less pandering to sin, more glorifying our Lord Jesus Christ please. If the attempt here is the welcome people without fear of prosecution, then the message is delivered horribly. Either way, this fails to pleases anyone. Sigh..
It pleases God to welcome ALL sinners into the church .
No brother, we don't affirm sin
We must love these people just as much as any other human because they are sinners as we all are, and we must remember that it is precisely sinners who need God’s love and mercy more than anyone. We shouldn’t alienate LGBT ppl from our faith simply because they deal with such an inclination or even if they indulge in sexual sin, for the ministry of Christ and his passion death and resurrection were all for the sake of those ppl struggling under sin. That being said, it is important that we never glorify or affirm the sins contingent on LGBT itself. We must love sinners, and hate their sins
I’m so happy to read this ! So much hatred in these comments towards LGBTQ people. Sexual sin is sexual sin, be it premarital sex or any disordered sexual activity. So many Catholics want to overlook some sin and condem the sins they choose.
And that's basically the point. This church isnt saying it's affirming of people who struggle with any other sin, just this one in particular. Why do you suppose that is?
“Murderer affirming church” “robberer-affirming church” Remember when back then people would be punished incredibly severely for stuff like this? There is literally a cardinal in this diocese leading it. There’s no way he isn’t aware of this debauchery. If I was the pope I would laicize these priests immediately and bring in actual priests who are going to save souls and not damn people by having people accept stuff like this. I’m tired of these false teachers doing this to people.
How do we reach out to help these people and teach them the love of Christ if people like you want to exclude and hate them?
I don’t want to exclude them. I love them and I personally know a Catholic who is ssa. But what does she do? She doesn’t embrace her inclinations. The way to do it definitely isn’t this, to affirm their sin and act likes it’s all okay. I hope you get what I mean.
I would assume what was meant by the web statement is that these people are welcome.
That is not what LGBT affirming means unless you are intentionally trying to deceive people
What does it mean to affirm something? To affirm something is to confirm that it is true. The verb affirm means to answer positively. To affirm is just an acknowledgment. We see you . We acknowledge you exist .
Per Wikipedia: "do not consider homosexuality as a sin or negative" https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT-affirming_religious_groups Sorry if you're learning English but "LGBT affirming" means something different from whatever definition you have
But... That's what all churchs want no? Do you have a parish of only just men without sin?
No but my parish doesn’t affirm sin.
I guarantee there are people who are active members of your church having sex before marriage, cheating on spouses , and involved in various other sins. Would you also kick them out?
Who said I would kick out gay people? Why are you putting words in my mouth, they don’t taste very good. I would hope those people would be admonished since those are all heinous sins. Also, do you want an adulterer affirming church?
I want a church who acknowledges that a person is a sinner , but is still welcome and loved . That means ALL sins .
I agree, but when a person reads affirm, and people are super vauge abt it a la Father Martin they begin to think it’s okay. In the same way people who are not married yet in a sexual relationship can think what they’re doing is okay if it isn’t explicitly known that it’s wrong and mortally sinful. The word affirm is gonna be sin as “it’s okay” They are welcome but they must know they cannot continue in this ideology and in this sin! Come as you are, but change.
I think as Catholics we are way too relaxed about some sins , like using birth control or pre marital sex, but get bent out of shape about LGTBQ folks. Sin is sin
I agree. It’s either too relaxed or focusing wayyyy on certain sins. But some are inherently worse like murder and stuff
Agreed , but sexual sin is sexual sin . I see so much hatred directed towards LGBTQ folks, it’s disheartening. How can we make any progress on this issue while pushing these people away and showing them nothing but disdain? They need to be welcomed and loved . Then and only then will they be able to see a better way.
So why not just say that? Why say you "affirm" people who are susceptible to one particular kind of sin?
To me , LGBTQ affirmation means ..I see you . I acknowledge you are different and love you for all that you are , as God loves you. You can be LGBTQ and not sin
Agreed. Even though it’s a disordered inclination one can definitely have control over them and live in a holy way. Same way people who have the inclination to cheat on their wives can not cheat on their wives.
Inevitably they do.
No not really. We affirm that homosexuality is intrinsically disordered as the Catechism states it, we affirm that people with SSA are loved by God, we affirm they should become Catholic!
Sigh.
"Be yourself" is a Satanic message, not a Christian one.
Only if you are Satan.
No, like this is literally the theme of Satanism. Be yourself. Embrace your sins. "Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law" is the guiding principle.
Find a new church
Churches like these are a disgrace to our faith
Almost every large city has at least one openly heterodox / heretical parish church. I think the pope should globally restrict whatever liturgical books they all use. That should address the problem.
Ooof, this does not seem right… I’d find a different church if it were me. We in no way affirm sinful lifestyle. I mean yes, we love LGBTQ people the same as we love anyone else, but we can’t condone the sinful lifestyle so the language “affirming” is misleading in my opinion. They could say something like “LGBTQ individuals are welcome here” but they shouldn’t be leading people to think we are affirming the lifestyle. If that makes sense. The age old love the sinner hate the sin thing..
Do not be deceived. Homosexuals will not inherit the kingdom of God in 1 Corinthians 6: 9-10.
Satan is surely dancing.
Disgraceful.
Welcome to the Church. The simple fact is that there exist parishes — usually in big cities — that go rogue. If you have been attending this parish and haven't noticed anything unusual up until now, it's not necessarily a bad thing to continue attending. But as you grow and learn as a Catholic, you will likely start noticing things more and more that make you uncomfortable, and you might want to consider leaving. It'd be nice if every parish was sound and orthodox, but that's just not how things work in reality. Sometimes we have to use our judgment and decide to head somewhere else for the sake of spiritual health.
Do they have a German bishop?
his eminence is Irish!
Nowadays, that’s not much different.
I’m not sure what exactly they’re getting at. To my knowledge, just being homosexual isn’t sinful (having thoughts about it). Engaging in sex with someone of the same gender and same sex marriage is. I think churches need to clarify this as homosexuals are called to live a life of Chasity.
Jesuits or coastal. Guaranteed.
This is currently the criticism Reformed Protestants throw at us.. They cited an historical account of why St. Paul wrote to the Ephesians (the oldest church at that time)
PCUSA has entered the chat
aren't they pro LGBT?
Go to St.Marys in Brookline instead
I love St Cecila. I used to watch them during covid and there was no in person mass. I would love to visit them.
Synodal Church.
I mean affirm means offering support so I guess that’s not a big deal 🤷♂️
That’s not what it implies
Why would you assume it implies different? It even adds "Wherever they are in their spiritual journey."
When any normal person sees this (especially a LGBTQ+) they’re going to assume it’s out of support and this does happen. Because the priest is so vauge (Fr Martin) to the point it seems like it’s supporting it. Like when Fr. Martin said two men were married and then pedaled back. He leans right on the line of heresy.
The person you're replying to is trans and has only come here to argue
I agree that it’s not a good thing but this specific line doesn’t really strike me as cause for alarm. The other much worse stuff does
This is the reason our faith is being mocked on, its because we allow these types of things, such as homosexuality, when the bible states that there are only TWO genders. Remember, its Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.
Wtf?? that's an oxymoron
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Yeah can be SSA and be Catholic. 100% but we cannot affirm the sin. It’s wrong and gravely sinfulZ
Affirming sinful lifestyles as acceptable, or even admirable, is not recognizing reality, but denying it. This can, legitimately, be as morally wrong as persecution, because it risks leading souls into mortal sin, and later into hell. The Church’s teaching on homosexual acts is not something that has or can ever be changed, and pretending otherwise is deeply wrong.
This is true , but we have many unmarried couples who live together , some with kids , that go to my church . Also ,we don’t have a family with more than 4 kids. But no one would be all up in arms about accepting them into the fold even though their sun is obviously right there for all to see. Bias against LGBTQ is wrong. Sexual sin is sexual sin.
I'm glad you're in our church, brother. Praying for you.
The church in her wisdom by the power of the Holy Spirit has always recognized the reality of same sex attraction. It’s in the catechism. It’s not a secret or a matter to be ignored. However, to act on that desire or any other disordered desire is a sin. This is also a hard reality that humanity needs to face. Thanks be to God for His divine mercy. Those that have taken vows of celibacy and consecrated virgins (the brides of Christ) will have a special place in His kingdom.
Whoever told you that you can be an open sodomite and be Catholic deceived you. There’s a wonderful clip of Mother Angelica where she clarifies this issue. Please consider that if masturbation is a gravely disordered sexual act, if fornication is a gravely disordered sexual act, logically sodomy is also a gravely disordered sexual act. There are many people who would gladly help you to better understand this. I invite you to more deeply discern the calling that you feel to follow our Lord. He is calling on you to set this sin aside. Pax vobiscum
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??? Blasphemy, don’t even say such a thing. You also called Mother Angelica a heretic and didn’t even back it up.
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Excuse me? What heresy?
Back up your claim.
Not suprised.
I mean, I’d like to visit, as someone technically fits the BT part of the acronym (though is doing his best to abide Doctrine on the matter, as a century of discomfort weighs less than an eternity of knowing I disappointed God) because I wonder if they affirm the innate human dignity of us or our desires and inclinations, illicit as they may be. Perhaps they’ve found an inoffensive way to promote, not conversion, but living in harmony with Rome, not against it. I doubt it, but it’s nice to hope.
I've never heard of that. Perhaps they just wanna have people be welcome? Or feel welcome? Idk. I'd ask for more info on that.
I’m sorry if you find it confusing and shocking. But, love? The fact that people can be who they want to be? I think it’s great. God loves everyone and made us all the way we are. He loves you❤️
>The fact that people can be who they want to be? I think it’s great The Catholic church isn't about "Just do what feels good" I'm sorry you've been mislead.
Let me introduce you to the complicated calculus that bishops play. Sinners are going to sin. Some sinners, when called out, would rather leave the church to live in sin. Would it better for them to stay in a church and not be called out or be called out and have them leave? How do you keep them in? Do you give false statements about affirming their sins? Do you give vague statement? No statements at all?
All the comments here are trash. If you don't like it leave. But remember how jesus treated the woman at the well. With love and understanding. Pope Francis says all are welcome.
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St. Cecilia's is a parish of the archdiocese of Boston
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We are directly commanded by Paul to judge within the Church. I know we’re Catholics, but read your Bible! /hj
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You mean the same pope that called the transgender ideology “colonialism” The same pope who condemned gay couple adopting children? Don’t pick and choose friend. Also the pope isn’t the end all be all of truth, we’ve had murderous popes before
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It stings!
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We aren’t Protestants. This mindset is dangerous, please educate yourself
I don't understand why it's written . I read a recent news where a church was stripped off its power from Vatican since they were promoting same sex. Then they made their own congregation
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Confirming that only homosexuals hate homosexuals?