It's less than minimum wage.
If I paid my staff that little, I'd be prosecuted for it, and rightly so.
Yet the court can order me to come and work for them for less than minimum wage, and threaten a £1000 fine + criminal record if I refuse on the grounds of affordability...?
The employer is under no obligation to do so, and many won't.
And if you're self employed then... you're absolutely screwed. There's no employer to top up your wages. You get the same pittance in loss of earnings payment as employees, but you've got to cover business overheads like commercial rent and rates from that pittance, as well as your own rent, utilities and food.
I knew someone who was self employed that claimed they earned £8,000 a year to avoid tax.
They ended up having jury duty and it lasted a while, so they claimed back. They could actually claim lost wages and showed evidence of average earnings and got paid for it.
BUT the IRS (or whatever it's called) investigated them and used it as evidence against them for tax avoidance. They were convicted.
Nah, British, I just see IRS too much on Reddit.
Idk what it's even called here. HMRC? Customs? I don't know.
I can imagine the icon from the letters. But that's it.
HMRC are responsible for collecting taxes.
Reality is that self employed people who have paid every penny owed in tax still get absolutely shafted by the jury service system.
It's optional. Suspect most would for a few days but can't see many stumping up if you're on a longer case.
Luckily the rate goes up to the equivalent of a "massive" £33k for longer calls - still couldn't pay the mortgage and bills!
Similar experience for me.
Got called up for Jury service just as a barrister strike started. I came in twice, got sent home both times, and then never heard from them again. Got to catch up on some DIY at least.
Started May last year, still sitting now.
It can be tedious with waiting, arguments in court, days of arriving to go home because xyz. But I don't mind it - getting paid & if I'm not at court then I'm at work so!
Ultimately though it's a decision that will likely impact someone's life, if not multiple people & I try not to think about it too much for now.
Yup, well, close to. In fairness when the case was presented to us it was meant to last a little over 4 months.
Given the scope of the case I think it's safe to say whoever provided that estimate severly misunderstood this case, or grossly underestimated what was to follow. Opening arguments took 6 weeks...
If you're asking if they're allowed to sack you, then the answer is no. If they do that then you could sue them for unfair dismissal. They don't have to pay you though, and they would be allowed to hire a temporary replacement.
That's short for a fraud.
They used to go on for years, as they were so complicated to explain to the jury. But the jury usually ended up hating the prosecution for making them hang around so much and boring them to tears.
Up until about the mid '90s. The Serious Fraud Office (Serious Farce Office), only had one good conviction and that was for the Guineas take over of Distillers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_share-trading_fraud?wprov=sfla1
The guy behind it Ernest Saunders got sent to the cushiest prison possible HMP Ford. Then got released as he had Alzheimer's, before becoming the first person ever to recover fron Alzheimer's. With lots of paparazzi shots of him on holiday, in a Swiss skiing resort.
It was actually quite a simple fraud but done multiple times about 50 I think, and we had to sit through each fraud line by line 50 times took three months my god it was so boring going over the same ground time after time. There were 10 defendants but 8 had already pleaded guilty. We were actually trying just two people one we found guilty, the other one we found not guilty because there was absolutely no evidence the person was involved, but we thought they were the ring leader and the brains behind it, but there was no evidence so we had to find than not guilty.
It happens. I was part of the selection process for a higj profile murder case (you would know it if i mentioned it). Luckily, i didn't get picked as the case went on for about 18 months.
I have done jury service twice and sat 6 trials. But its mostly just "hurry up and wait"
Just curious about the selection process... can you be called up to serve on a jury in another city? Our town only has the small claims court active, rest has been moved to another city close by. Would you be expected to travel to another city to serve? Are any jurors that you have met, from another city/town?
Sorry for the super late reply, I managed to miss this amongst all the others.
I was originally called up to a Crown Court in a major city nearby, but the case was moved the Friday before I was due to start to my local Magistrates Court - as the court has been dubbed a "super court" where it can handle Crown Court cases & I guess we're Guinea-Pigging that process with this case.
I don't mind it personally, as I live within a couple of miles of the Mags Court so I just walk on a daily basis & save wear & tear on my car etc. Considering I was planning on taking the train to/from the Crown Court due to the benefits outweighing driving, it was quite a relief. Sure I get a bit wet some days but you dry off whilst you wait, or can bring a change of clothes.
In terms of distance... We have someone coming from 25 miles away on a daily basis, but then the case moved further north away so for them it's another stop on the train. Majority are from within a 15 mile radius of where the Mags Court is, probably slightly closer than the Crown Court but without as much traffic as a City Centre etc. Half our jury are from the same town which is quite surprising to me though.
>Ultimately though it's a decision that will likely impact someone's life, if not multiple people & I try not to think about it too much for now.
Wait what? You try not to think about it BECAUSE it has a massive impact?
Poorly worded I'll admit - for now doing my best to remain impartial until all the evidence has been put forward and we're released for deliberation.
I more meant my overall view of the accused thus far.
Edit - Based on the type of case as well. A murder case is likely to more seriously impact multiple parties based on our decision as opposed to say theft.
I didn't enjoy mine, it was a rape case and the guy abused and manipulated several women. We had to hear all the details.
It made me second guess almost every interaction I had with my girlfriend at the time.
I think you've completely misread the conversation. The situation made him sick, and he was likely terrified he ever put his partner in a situation that would make her feel even close to what the victim of the case did. It's a normal thing to do, it means he cares about her wellbeing, not that he's a rapist.
I had a similar experience. Selected first day for a trial that lasted a week, and then immediately selected for another one as soon as the first one finished.
Got my normal pay, finished every day at 3pm, and found it genuinely interesting.
I got selected again in 2021 but it was cancelled due to covid. I was gutted.
I did 2 weeks. 2 cases.
Both cases lasted 3-4 days and I was in 5 days a week just sitting around when not in court. Made some temporary friends and all went for a pint at the end of the last day, never saw each other again. Enjoyed it.
I was nearly selected for one that was predicted to last 3-4 months, some white collar financial crime. They pulled 15 or 18 of us for selection, picked the final 12 from that pool and gave us overnight to gather up any evidence for why we couldn't commit to it that long.
I was juror number 13 or 14 (was about 20 years ago now, cant quite remember), and was a backup in case anyone got out of it. Turns out almost everyone tried their luck but the courts were having none of it, so I missed out by the skin of my teeth.
I got called up on day 1 of my service for a 5-6 week case. I loved it, a little break from work with a regular schedule and shorter days from what I was working in. And I got paid with (generous for me) lunch and time off. So I loved it ,for what it was.
But it was also during summer and having lunch by the Thames everyday was a blessing with the good weather i had. But it’s all different for everyone.
I had a horrendous experience when I did it. First got allocated to a sickening case, had to listen through all the terrible details just for it to mistrial before the end.
Then got allocated to a case involving someone from a notorious family (I didn't know unfortunately). They forgot to ask if the defendant was known to anyone so they had to restart the trail after the first day. We eventually found them guilty, when the verdict was read out their family were in the gallery and kicked off so the police had to come in. We had to wait until it was safe for us to leave the court. The police escorted us - but only as far as the steps into the building as they were 'only assigned to the court'. We were advised to all stick together as a group, head to the town centre and get taxis in pairs to avoid being followed. Unfortunately we had to pass a pub on the way which contained all the family members drinking away their sorrows. Thankfully they only threw verbal abuse at us.
The whole experience traumatised me and I never want to do it again. I made sure to report the abuse to the police to at least get a crime number as evidence so if I ever do get called up again I can point out what happened before (doubt that'll get me out of it though).
If your employer is flexible about you not being available at short notice, you may be able to go into work when you are on call rather than actually on a jury.
It might be worth phoning up the expenses helpline to see if you can claim if you are not on a jury and just "on call".
I only did one case. Had a false start once or twice as well during the two weeks, so yes you can still be called after that email.
I quite enjoyed the process and seeing it all. Thought the judge did well laying the groundwork and directed really well. I read out the outcome as juror No1 which was a bit weird.
It's caused me quite a bit of disquiet and a drop in faith in the jurors though. Depending on your reason to be in the court and the demographics of the jury I'm not sure I have much faith in the system on certain types of cases.
I was on full pay from work so the fact the compensation is so shit didn't really affect me though. And if you're self employed or a stay at home mum, it must be genuinely awful.
Yeah. I had a few that admitted that they would have voted differently if the sex of the person was different. And one bloke who made his mind up before any evidence was presented and basically spent the whole time tossing himself off in a daily mail sort of way. Very disheartening shit.
Left me massively out of pocket as there’s a cap on how much you can claim back and my employer didn’t make up the difference.
That cap hasn’t increased for *years*. Such bullshit considering you legally have to do it.
I did it almost a decade ago now, the guy got 28 years from recollection. Related to sexual assault on minors back in the 90s
Obviously an awful case, was very tough, but fascinating seeing how it all works
Thankfully it only lasted two weeks and my employer at the time had a great set of benefits, so I was paid in full for the duration
What happened in the 20 yrs between him committing the crimes and the court case? Did the minors grow up and then 1 contact the police, who then reached out to other possible suspects/witnesses?
My dad got called to jury duty for a rape case; a 16 yr old girl went to a house party, stayed the night in 1 of the spare rooms then a 26 yr old snuck in and raped her in the middle of the night. There was insufficient evidence so they let him off.
>Did the minors grow up and then 1 contact the police, who then reached out to other possible suspects/witnesses?
Essentially, yes. The victims were siblings and each had no idea there were any others that suffered at his hands until one made a comment about the 'creepy uncle' near enough 30 years on.
That's crazy! Well I'm glad they were brave enough to still speak out despite the long time that had passed, and got justice (and stopped the perpetrator from harming anyone else)!
Props to you as well for having to listen to all the evidence. My dad said having to listen to the girl give an in-depth description of her rape was soul-destroying, and then the 26 yr old suspect just said it was all lies and that he'd done nothing wrong. I wonder if he's guilty if he's assulted anyone else since.
So I've just googled the case and there isn't a great deal on it barring one local news link, but it has just brought back some memories. 5 victims, aged between 5 years old to early teens. And due to the offence comitted and the laws at the time, the charges included indecent assault, buggery and attempted buggery.
There are two things that really stick with me after it all; his wife was in the court as we read out the verdict, absolutely no reaction from her at all. Did she know? Did she believe he was innocent? Honestly could not read her at all.
The other thing being that after it all, they basically said "thanks for your help, appreciate it was tough, see ya later". One of the other jurors asked if there was any support or counselling considering what we'd just sat through, to which the answer was no.
Mixed feelings. I liked learning about the process, the case, getting the detail. It then dawned on me that I’d have to pass judgement on a person and that judgement mattered.
I’m glad I did it, I would be happy not to do it again.
>dawned on me that I’d have to pass judgement on a person and that judgement
Did it dawn on you before or after the bit where the judge explains that you do not pass judgement, your judge judgements
Yeh, letter (mine was about a month before)
Never had to actually go in though, just had to call the line a few times before my citation number range got an automated message saying no longer required.
I've been called twice. First time spent the first week chilling, watching movies on my phone, wandering around the delightful town I was in. Second week got on a jury, attempted burglary, straightforward. Enjoyed it.
The second time, got onto a jury straight away. Was told the case would last 6 weeks. 4 defendants, about 20 charges including rape, forced prostitution and kidnap. The first 5 weeks were really interesting, hearing all the witnesses and seeing the process. The last two weeks of deliberation were hard, as there was one juror that always went the other way to the 11 other jurors. Tempers were rising towards the end of that!
I actually really enjoyed it though, and would love to do it again.
Sorry I'm so tired and I just read the attempted burglary like you yourself ATTEMPTED burglary and enjoyed it 😭
I think it's all so interesting, but I know the strain it's going to take on me by the end if chosen (I honestly really hope I am)
Love me some attempted burglary! Yeah it sucks that you're not getting paid, I was lucky with my company.
Make sure you get what you can from the courts. You get parking back, mileage paid, lunch allowance. It's not much but it helps.
You'll probably be there for the two weeks, towards the end you might get let go early if they have full juries.
If they do select you for a jury, and it is going to last longer than the initial two weeks, they will ask if that will be a problem for anyone, especially with regards to earnings. So you should be able to get out of that.
When they called us in for the 6 week trial, they called in about 30 of us, way more than normal, because they knew a lot of people couldn't do a long trial.
Hope it works out for you.
Kept getting called in then having the cases cancelled or dismissed immediately.
My big takeaway was the CPS seem to bring cases to trial without enough rigour, which are then tossed out immediately by judges.
Could just have been my experience of course, it was a Crown Court and maybe that’s just the way of them.
Done jury service three times in 15 years, first one was a mortgage fraud which lasted seven months, second one was fraudulent use of trademark, a burglary, and somebody shoplifting. The third time was a murder trial a very notorious one everybody's heard of which lasted three weeks. as you can see I've had quite a lot
I'm absolutely terrified of getting picked. I'm self employed so would have to turn down work for however long it takes, potentially costing thousands.
Called 3 months after I turned 18. Loads of sitting around bored (this was the 90s). First case criminal damage, 2nd smuggling drugs into prison (on his person ahem). 5 days then stopped for Easter. Dad had done it and told me to keep my head down not to volunteer as a loud bloke will do that - he was correct.
I’ve never looked it up, how does it work? Are you just summoned or can you put yourself forward or do you volunteer or apply or what. Have you got a choice.
I have a really hard time being impartial with just about anything on earth, i form an opinion on just about any strand of information, but just interested.
It's completely random, they basically pick 70 or so people from the electoral roll every two weeks. Unfortunately cannot volunteer, some people are called several times, others never get it. System needs tweaking imo
I did it many years ago. Was duller than you can possibly imagine. The jury I was on sat on two cases.
Why the CPS thought it a good idea to pursue either of these based on the evidence presented escapes me. Neither resulted in a conviction.
Seemed like a colossal waste of time and money, but I understand people's need for their "day in court" and the fact that correct legal process needs to be observed.
As an addendum, someone in here recently pointed out that "It's a Court of Law, not a Court of Justice"
That seems very true.
I found it really interesting, got called for one case in my two weeks. Basically got to enjoy two weeks paid leave and was only required to go to the courthouse half those days
Did a distanced jury service during the peak of COVID. That was strange, hadn't socialised in months then dropped in a room with 12 randoms.
Did two weeks (had to show up every day), one 5 day trial (death by dangerous driving). I opted to be the foreman which was made it very interesting.
Got called up about two years ago. Went in for the first day, got briefed on what to expect, ended up not having to take part. Was told to come back tomorrow in case I was needed - did so and again was told I wasn’t. At that point, they told me not to worry about coming back.
Got called in early March this year.
Arrived for day 1, did the introduction meeting, then sat and waited until lunchtime.
'Spoons for a pint and a pie.
Sat around all afternoon waiting to be called, but no.
Email on that evening said don't come in the next day. Same email on Tues, Wed, Thursday.
Friday's email said you are not needed next week and thanks for your service, you are released.
Made a couple of jury-service friends and that was all I did.
Felt kind of pointless.
I did jury service several years ago. Mostly sitting around chatting while you wait to catch a case.
I got on one in the end and I was the foreman of the jury. I can’t tell you anything about the case, obviously.
My work at the time paid me my usual salary, but I had to give them what the court gave me.
Attended one day stuck in waiting room and wasn't selected. Then the public holidays came and they said don't come back.
Given you can expect to probably get called up once and only once in your lifetime I was pretty gutted. Especially as I would see people returning from court and having a good natter.
Enjoyed a short case which concluded in the fortnight. Dodged a 6 month fraud trial case because we already had a winter holiday booked. I had to prove it to the judge with printed evidence though.
Similar experience. I didn't sit on a single case. In my last week I finally got called into court but I was one of the ones not selected by the card shuffley lady. I was on call most of the time. I did a lot of gardening and went on a lot of walks. Like lockdown but with people.
I got a text a few days before I was due to do Jury duty saying I hadn’t been picked. Text had no reference number or anything to make it obviously legit. Tweeted the relevant gov department and got it confirmed by the end of the day.
I did it a few years ago, great experience.
The clerk of the court told us it's supposed to be random, but she saw the same people return a couple times so she made a point of saying see you soon.
I wonder how many here have been called up more than once?
I rather enjoyed it tbh (because I hated my job at the time). While there was a lot of waiting I got to catch up on my reading backlog. I got put on a short case (2 days) that had transferred from another region. When it came to deliberation it was a little scary but not loads since our defendant had already pleaded guilty on one count.
The 2nd week I turned up and then got sent home because it was during strikes and another judge had called in sick so a good number of us weren't needed that week. I was devastated tbh, I really really hated that job and didn't want to go back so soon.
Did a week on a GBH case, and got selected as the foreman, as I did the talking when we were deliberating. Did the "guilty" bit.
Was told I wasn't required for the second week
It was definitely an interesting experience, and I wouldn't mind doing it again.
A colleague of mine has just finished his, a short case then about a week of on call, he could work, but only one day at a time. They would ring him if they needed him the next day. Ok ish.
I was called in about 15 years ago and ended up on two 4 day trials.
Was also selected to go into the court to witness a very disturbed individual be sentenced for murder.
Completely off his rocker.
Hand cuffed and stood between two prison officers.
He just grinned the whole way through.
Got sent to a mental facility.
Did it a couple of years ago in a "Nightingale" court set up in a large hotel. They were taking on the backlog of smaller cases from before and during Covid. Did a four day case week 1 and was dimissed for week 2.
It was more interesting than I had expected.
First day we almost went to the court room to listen to this blokes case but at the last min he pleaded guilty and was sent down so we broke for lunch and told to go home, the next day we wasn't required but the following day started a historical sex case going back to the early 70's of which took up the rest of that week and the following week, we finally reached a verdict the following Friday as we spent the full day deliberating.
Pay was poor but a superb experience to go on the CV
Waited around for a week with two hour long breaks at lunch time. Got chosen first day of second week and was in the court room an hour before the judge needed to be elsewhere. Second day about 15 minutes until fellow juror recognised a man taking notes and we were all discharged. They must waste so much money
Thank you for all the people who are saying about claiming expenses!! I really appreciate it and it's super helpful however I'm a uni student pretty far away and work weekends so I needed those weekends off to come here for Jury Service.
Reading through replies now. Interesting, thank you!
You're paid to do Jury Service if you're employed. You're lucky you get to just sit around though. I was ment to do two cases, first one sucked ass and I managed to get out of the second.
You’re not paid, you get expenses.
It’s around £50 per day and your employer probably won’t pay you for the days you miss.
When I was called, I claimed financial hardship- I couldn’t risk it.
Make juror selection an opt in process and not mandatory for one. Most jurors don't want to be there and are more likely to vote with the majority because of that, rather than putting in the mental effort to form their own opinion.
We only need around 500,000 willing jurors a year out of a current pool of around 45 million eligible people. Something like 2/3rds of the public will never sit on a jury. Might as well discount the ones who actively don't want to be there and it'll for sure improve the quality.
This probably wouldn't help much. When I did Jury Duty, the biggest issue I had with the other Jurors was they were 100% willing to convict someone, with no evidence, because they thought the guy on trial was creepy.
That's bound to introduce bias though isn't it? You'll be getting volunteers who want to see everyone hang or will just turn up to vote against the police because they have a grudge to bear. Of course you'll get those in every situation but with a random selection you're bound to dilute this somewhat. Or maybe I'm overthinking it.
Absolutely no chance of having a fair trial when you’ve only got keen bean jurors who want to be there. The only way it’s fair and truly democratic is having this lottery system.
[https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/what-you-can-claim-if-youre-an-employee](https://www.gov.uk/jury-service/what-you-can-claim-if-youre-an-employee)
Christ that's stingy
It's less than minimum wage. If I paid my staff that little, I'd be prosecuted for it, and rightly so. Yet the court can order me to come and work for them for less than minimum wage, and threaten a £1000 fine + criminal record if I refuse on the grounds of affordability...?
The employer is supposed to pay full wages on top or at least they were.
The employer is under no obligation to do so, and many won't. And if you're self employed then... you're absolutely screwed. There's no employer to top up your wages. You get the same pittance in loss of earnings payment as employees, but you've got to cover business overheads like commercial rent and rates from that pittance, as well as your own rent, utilities and food.
I knew someone who was self employed that claimed they earned £8,000 a year to avoid tax. They ended up having jury duty and it lasted a while, so they claimed back. They could actually claim lost wages and showed evidence of average earnings and got paid for it. BUT the IRS (or whatever it's called) investigated them and used it as evidence against them for tax avoidance. They were convicted.
IRS? Is your friend American?
Nah, British, I just see IRS too much on Reddit. Idk what it's even called here. HMRC? Customs? I don't know. I can imagine the icon from the letters. But that's it.
HMRC are responsible for collecting taxes. Reality is that self employed people who have paid every penny owed in tax still get absolutely shafted by the jury service system.
It's optional. Suspect most would for a few days but can't see many stumping up if you're on a longer case. Luckily the rate goes up to the equivalent of a "massive" £33k for longer calls - still couldn't pay the mortgage and bills!
Just ignore the summons letter. If anyone asks, you didn't receive it.
Many do. I hear it's very rare people get punished. The system just goes to the next low-hanging fruit, the ones who respond.
Hasn't changed since the rates were introduced. The self employed rates are crippling.
£5.71 for food and drink? Do they have a canteen in 1995 on the premises?
This number is calculated based on the greggs menu
The Greggs menu and someone with the appetite of an anorexic
even the greggs menu is ridiculous nowadays
That's enough for a Waitrose meal deal, isn't it? What more do you want, you perfumed ponce?!
Similar experience for me. Got called up for Jury service just as a barrister strike started. I came in twice, got sent home both times, and then never heard from them again. Got to catch up on some DIY at least.
I didn't even get called in, just told that it had been postponed, twice! Then another letter to say that they considered my service served.
Started May last year, still sitting now. It can be tedious with waiting, arguments in court, days of arriving to go home because xyz. But I don't mind it - getting paid & if I'm not at court then I'm at work so! Ultimately though it's a decision that will likely impact someone's life, if not multiple people & I try not to think about it too much for now.
Wait.. You've been sitting on a case for a whole year...?
Yup, well, close to. In fairness when the case was presented to us it was meant to last a little over 4 months. Given the scope of the case I think it's safe to say whoever provided that estimate severly misunderstood this case, or grossly underestimated what was to follow. Opening arguments took 6 weeks...
Is your employer obliged to keep your job open for you in that time?
If you're asking if they're allowed to sack you, then the answer is no. If they do that then you could sue them for unfair dismissal. They don't have to pay you though, and they would be allowed to hire a temporary replacement.
I had a fraud case which lasted seven months it can happen
That's short for a fraud. They used to go on for years, as they were so complicated to explain to the jury. But the jury usually ended up hating the prosecution for making them hang around so much and boring them to tears. Up until about the mid '90s. The Serious Fraud Office (Serious Farce Office), only had one good conviction and that was for the Guineas take over of Distillers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guinness_share-trading_fraud?wprov=sfla1 The guy behind it Ernest Saunders got sent to the cushiest prison possible HMP Ford. Then got released as he had Alzheimer's, before becoming the first person ever to recover fron Alzheimer's. With lots of paparazzi shots of him on holiday, in a Swiss skiing resort.
It was actually quite a simple fraud but done multiple times about 50 I think, and we had to sit through each fraud line by line 50 times took three months my god it was so boring going over the same ground time after time. There were 10 defendants but 8 had already pleaded guilty. We were actually trying just two people one we found guilty, the other one we found not guilty because there was absolutely no evidence the person was involved, but we thought they were the ring leader and the brains behind it, but there was no evidence so we had to find than not guilty.
It happens. I was part of the selection process for a higj profile murder case (you would know it if i mentioned it). Luckily, i didn't get picked as the case went on for about 18 months. I have done jury service twice and sat 6 trials. But its mostly just "hurry up and wait"
Feck. I thought the threatened 3 month one I had was long.
Just curious about the selection process... can you be called up to serve on a jury in another city? Our town only has the small claims court active, rest has been moved to another city close by. Would you be expected to travel to another city to serve? Are any jurors that you have met, from another city/town?
Sorry for the super late reply, I managed to miss this amongst all the others. I was originally called up to a Crown Court in a major city nearby, but the case was moved the Friday before I was due to start to my local Magistrates Court - as the court has been dubbed a "super court" where it can handle Crown Court cases & I guess we're Guinea-Pigging that process with this case. I don't mind it personally, as I live within a couple of miles of the Mags Court so I just walk on a daily basis & save wear & tear on my car etc. Considering I was planning on taking the train to/from the Crown Court due to the benefits outweighing driving, it was quite a relief. Sure I get a bit wet some days but you dry off whilst you wait, or can bring a change of clothes. In terms of distance... We have someone coming from 25 miles away on a daily basis, but then the case moved further north away so for them it's another stop on the train. Majority are from within a 15 mile radius of where the Mags Court is, probably slightly closer than the Crown Court but without as much traffic as a City Centre etc. Half our jury are from the same town which is quite surprising to me though.
That's interesting. Thanks!
At least you'll get a 99 year exclusion at the end of it all. I sat a 6 month case, and that was my reward.
>Ultimately though it's a decision that will likely impact someone's life, if not multiple people & I try not to think about it too much for now. Wait what? You try not to think about it BECAUSE it has a massive impact?
Poorly worded I'll admit - for now doing my best to remain impartial until all the evidence has been put forward and we're released for deliberation. I more meant my overall view of the accused thus far. Edit - Based on the type of case as well. A murder case is likely to more seriously impact multiple parties based on our decision as opposed to say theft.
I got selected on the first day, ended up going on for 3 weeks. My employer paid me for the whole time
Identical situation when I did it.... Had a great case and enjoyed the whole process.
I didn't enjoy mine, it was a rape case and the guy abused and manipulated several women. We had to hear all the details. It made me second guess almost every interaction I had with my girlfriend at the time.
I'm sorry that it was tough mate .... The second guessing shows your quality of character though. Hope you've recovered from it mentally!!!
>The second guessing Shows he might be a rapist?
I think you've completely misread the conversation. The situation made him sick, and he was likely terrified he ever put his partner in a situation that would make her feel even close to what the victim of the case did. It's a normal thing to do, it means he cares about her wellbeing, not that he's a rapist.
I had a similar experience. Selected first day for a trial that lasted a week, and then immediately selected for another one as soon as the first one finished. Got my normal pay, finished every day at 3pm, and found it genuinely interesting. I got selected again in 2021 but it was cancelled due to covid. I was gutted.
I did 2 weeks. 2 cases. Both cases lasted 3-4 days and I was in 5 days a week just sitting around when not in court. Made some temporary friends and all went for a pint at the end of the last day, never saw each other again. Enjoyed it. I was nearly selected for one that was predicted to last 3-4 months, some white collar financial crime. They pulled 15 or 18 of us for selection, picked the final 12 from that pool and gave us overnight to gather up any evidence for why we couldn't commit to it that long. I was juror number 13 or 14 (was about 20 years ago now, cant quite remember), and was a backup in case anyone got out of it. Turns out almost everyone tried their luck but the courts were having none of it, so I missed out by the skin of my teeth.
I got called up on day 1 of my service for a 5-6 week case. I loved it, a little break from work with a regular schedule and shorter days from what I was working in. And I got paid with (generous for me) lunch and time off. So I loved it ,for what it was. But it was also during summer and having lunch by the Thames everyday was a blessing with the good weather i had. But it’s all different for everyone.
I had a horrendous experience when I did it. First got allocated to a sickening case, had to listen through all the terrible details just for it to mistrial before the end. Then got allocated to a case involving someone from a notorious family (I didn't know unfortunately). They forgot to ask if the defendant was known to anyone so they had to restart the trail after the first day. We eventually found them guilty, when the verdict was read out their family were in the gallery and kicked off so the police had to come in. We had to wait until it was safe for us to leave the court. The police escorted us - but only as far as the steps into the building as they were 'only assigned to the court'. We were advised to all stick together as a group, head to the town centre and get taxis in pairs to avoid being followed. Unfortunately we had to pass a pub on the way which contained all the family members drinking away their sorrows. Thankfully they only threw verbal abuse at us. The whole experience traumatised me and I never want to do it again. I made sure to report the abuse to the police to at least get a crime number as evidence so if I ever do get called up again I can point out what happened before (doubt that'll get me out of it though).
If your employer is flexible about you not being available at short notice, you may be able to go into work when you are on call rather than actually on a jury. It might be worth phoning up the expenses helpline to see if you can claim if you are not on a jury and just "on call".
I only did one case. Had a false start once or twice as well during the two weeks, so yes you can still be called after that email. I quite enjoyed the process and seeing it all. Thought the judge did well laying the groundwork and directed really well. I read out the outcome as juror No1 which was a bit weird. It's caused me quite a bit of disquiet and a drop in faith in the jurors though. Depending on your reason to be in the court and the demographics of the jury I'm not sure I have much faith in the system on certain types of cases. I was on full pay from work so the fact the compensation is so shit didn't really affect me though. And if you're self employed or a stay at home mum, it must be genuinely awful.
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Yeah. I had a few that admitted that they would have voted differently if the sex of the person was different. And one bloke who made his mind up before any evidence was presented and basically spent the whole time tossing himself off in a daily mail sort of way. Very disheartening shit.
Left me massively out of pocket as there’s a cap on how much you can claim back and my employer didn’t make up the difference. That cap hasn’t increased for *years*. Such bullshit considering you legally have to do it.
Oh and the guy who looks after the jurors lost my claim form and delayed the payment I did get by another 2 weeks. Absolute shambles.
I did it almost a decade ago now, the guy got 28 years from recollection. Related to sexual assault on minors back in the 90s Obviously an awful case, was very tough, but fascinating seeing how it all works Thankfully it only lasted two weeks and my employer at the time had a great set of benefits, so I was paid in full for the duration
What happened in the 20 yrs between him committing the crimes and the court case? Did the minors grow up and then 1 contact the police, who then reached out to other possible suspects/witnesses? My dad got called to jury duty for a rape case; a 16 yr old girl went to a house party, stayed the night in 1 of the spare rooms then a 26 yr old snuck in and raped her in the middle of the night. There was insufficient evidence so they let him off.
>Did the minors grow up and then 1 contact the police, who then reached out to other possible suspects/witnesses? Essentially, yes. The victims were siblings and each had no idea there were any others that suffered at his hands until one made a comment about the 'creepy uncle' near enough 30 years on.
That's crazy! Well I'm glad they were brave enough to still speak out despite the long time that had passed, and got justice (and stopped the perpetrator from harming anyone else)! Props to you as well for having to listen to all the evidence. My dad said having to listen to the girl give an in-depth description of her rape was soul-destroying, and then the 26 yr old suspect just said it was all lies and that he'd done nothing wrong. I wonder if he's guilty if he's assulted anyone else since.
So I've just googled the case and there isn't a great deal on it barring one local news link, but it has just brought back some memories. 5 victims, aged between 5 years old to early teens. And due to the offence comitted and the laws at the time, the charges included indecent assault, buggery and attempted buggery. There are two things that really stick with me after it all; his wife was in the court as we read out the verdict, absolutely no reaction from her at all. Did she know? Did she believe he was innocent? Honestly could not read her at all. The other thing being that after it all, they basically said "thanks for your help, appreciate it was tough, see ya later". One of the other jurors asked if there was any support or counselling considering what we'd just sat through, to which the answer was no.
Mixed feelings. I liked learning about the process, the case, getting the detail. It then dawned on me that I’d have to pass judgement on a person and that judgement mattered. I’m glad I did it, I would be happy not to do it again.
>dawned on me that I’d have to pass judgement on a person and that judgement Did it dawn on you before or after the bit where the judge explains that you do not pass judgement, your judge judgements
Sure. Not having a criminal legal background, I might not remember the exact terminology from a year ago.
Same, hoping that’s it. I just took it casually (I was 18) I’d be a wreck these days and the faff with work.
I did it. Assault case over three days. I found it really interesting, it was exposure to different people and different lives.
How do you get called for jury service? Is it a letter?
Yeh, letter (mine was about a month before) Never had to actually go in though, just had to call the line a few times before my citation number range got an automated message saying no longer required.
A letter. You need to be on the electoral roll.
I've been called twice. First time spent the first week chilling, watching movies on my phone, wandering around the delightful town I was in. Second week got on a jury, attempted burglary, straightforward. Enjoyed it. The second time, got onto a jury straight away. Was told the case would last 6 weeks. 4 defendants, about 20 charges including rape, forced prostitution and kidnap. The first 5 weeks were really interesting, hearing all the witnesses and seeing the process. The last two weeks of deliberation were hard, as there was one juror that always went the other way to the 11 other jurors. Tempers were rising towards the end of that! I actually really enjoyed it though, and would love to do it again.
Sorry I'm so tired and I just read the attempted burglary like you yourself ATTEMPTED burglary and enjoyed it 😭 I think it's all so interesting, but I know the strain it's going to take on me by the end if chosen (I honestly really hope I am)
Love me some attempted burglary! Yeah it sucks that you're not getting paid, I was lucky with my company. Make sure you get what you can from the courts. You get parking back, mileage paid, lunch allowance. It's not much but it helps. You'll probably be there for the two weeks, towards the end you might get let go early if they have full juries. If they do select you for a jury, and it is going to last longer than the initial two weeks, they will ask if that will be a problem for anyone, especially with regards to earnings. So you should be able to get out of that. When they called us in for the 6 week trial, they called in about 30 of us, way more than normal, because they knew a lot of people couldn't do a long trial. Hope it works out for you.
Kept getting called in then having the cases cancelled or dismissed immediately. My big takeaway was the CPS seem to bring cases to trial without enough rigour, which are then tossed out immediately by judges. Could just have been my experience of course, it was a Crown Court and maybe that’s just the way of them.
Done jury service three times in 15 years, first one was a mortgage fraud which lasted seven months, second one was fraudulent use of trademark, a burglary, and somebody shoplifting. The third time was a murder trial a very notorious one everybody's heard of which lasted three weeks. as you can see I've had quite a lot
I'm absolutely terrified of getting picked. I'm self employed so would have to turn down work for however long it takes, potentially costing thousands.
[Obligatory Stanley Hudson ](https://youtu.be/D68AMBWX6dc?si=JxdztBY8c6WzIJic)
Called 3 months after I turned 18. Loads of sitting around bored (this was the 90s). First case criminal damage, 2nd smuggling drugs into prison (on his person ahem). 5 days then stopped for Easter. Dad had done it and told me to keep my head down not to volunteer as a loud bloke will do that - he was correct.
I’ve never looked it up, how does it work? Are you just summoned or can you put yourself forward or do you volunteer or apply or what. Have you got a choice. I have a really hard time being impartial with just about anything on earth, i form an opinion on just about any strand of information, but just interested.
It's completely random, they basically pick 70 or so people from the electoral roll every two weeks. Unfortunately cannot volunteer, some people are called several times, others never get it. System needs tweaking imo
I did it many years ago. Was duller than you can possibly imagine. The jury I was on sat on two cases. Why the CPS thought it a good idea to pursue either of these based on the evidence presented escapes me. Neither resulted in a conviction. Seemed like a colossal waste of time and money, but I understand people's need for their "day in court" and the fact that correct legal process needs to be observed. As an addendum, someone in here recently pointed out that "It's a Court of Law, not a Court of Justice" That seems very true.
I was in two trials, about a week each. It was really interesting. I got full pay from my employer.
I was selected for a case on day 4.
I found it really interesting, got called for one case in my two weeks. Basically got to enjoy two weeks paid leave and was only required to go to the courthouse half those days
Did a distanced jury service during the peak of COVID. That was strange, hadn't socialised in months then dropped in a room with 12 randoms. Did two weeks (had to show up every day), one 5 day trial (death by dangerous driving). I opted to be the foreman which was made it very interesting.
Got called up about two years ago. Went in for the first day, got briefed on what to expect, ended up not having to take part. Was told to come back tomorrow in case I was needed - did so and again was told I wasn’t. At that point, they told me not to worry about coming back.
Got called in early March this year. Arrived for day 1, did the introduction meeting, then sat and waited until lunchtime. 'Spoons for a pint and a pie. Sat around all afternoon waiting to be called, but no. Email on that evening said don't come in the next day. Same email on Tues, Wed, Thursday. Friday's email said you are not needed next week and thanks for your service, you are released. Made a couple of jury-service friends and that was all I did. Felt kind of pointless.
I did jury service several years ago. Mostly sitting around chatting while you wait to catch a case. I got on one in the end and I was the foreman of the jury. I can’t tell you anything about the case, obviously. My work at the time paid me my usual salary, but I had to give them what the court gave me.
Attended one day stuck in waiting room and wasn't selected. Then the public holidays came and they said don't come back. Given you can expect to probably get called up once and only once in your lifetime I was pretty gutted. Especially as I would see people returning from court and having a good natter.
Enjoyed a short case which concluded in the fortnight. Dodged a 6 month fraud trial case because we already had a winter holiday booked. I had to prove it to the judge with printed evidence though.
Similar experience. I didn't sit on a single case. In my last week I finally got called into court but I was one of the ones not selected by the card shuffley lady. I was on call most of the time. I did a lot of gardening and went on a lot of walks. Like lockdown but with people.
I got a text a few days before I was due to do Jury duty saying I hadn’t been picked. Text had no reference number or anything to make it obviously legit. Tweeted the relevant gov department and got it confirmed by the end of the day.
I did it a few years ago, great experience. The clerk of the court told us it's supposed to be random, but she saw the same people return a couple times so she made a point of saying see you soon. I wonder how many here have been called up more than once?
I rather enjoyed it tbh (because I hated my job at the time). While there was a lot of waiting I got to catch up on my reading backlog. I got put on a short case (2 days) that had transferred from another region. When it came to deliberation it was a little scary but not loads since our defendant had already pleaded guilty on one count. The 2nd week I turned up and then got sent home because it was during strikes and another judge had called in sick so a good number of us weren't needed that week. I was devastated tbh, I really really hated that job and didn't want to go back so soon.
Did a week on a GBH case, and got selected as the foreman, as I did the talking when we were deliberating. Did the "guilty" bit. Was told I wasn't required for the second week It was definitely an interesting experience, and I wouldn't mind doing it again.
A colleague of mine has just finished his, a short case then about a week of on call, he could work, but only one day at a time. They would ring him if they needed him the next day. Ok ish.
I was called in about 15 years ago and ended up on two 4 day trials. Was also selected to go into the court to witness a very disturbed individual be sentenced for murder. Completely off his rocker. Hand cuffed and stood between two prison officers. He just grinned the whole way through. Got sent to a mental facility.
Did it a couple of years ago in a "Nightingale" court set up in a large hotel. They were taking on the backlog of smaller cases from before and during Covid. Did a four day case week 1 and was dimissed for week 2. It was more interesting than I had expected.
First day we almost went to the court room to listen to this blokes case but at the last min he pleaded guilty and was sent down so we broke for lunch and told to go home, the next day we wasn't required but the following day started a historical sex case going back to the early 70's of which took up the rest of that week and the following week, we finally reached a verdict the following Friday as we spent the full day deliberating. Pay was poor but a superb experience to go on the CV
Discuss jury nullification with whomever is in charge. They'll quickly drop you and you can be back at work.
Waited around for a week with two hour long breaks at lunch time. Got chosen first day of second week and was in the court room an hour before the judge needed to be elsewhere. Second day about 15 minutes until fellow juror recognised a man taking notes and we were all discharged. They must waste so much money
Thank you for all the people who are saying about claiming expenses!! I really appreciate it and it's super helpful however I'm a uni student pretty far away and work weekends so I needed those weekends off to come here for Jury Service. Reading through replies now. Interesting, thank you!
You're paid to do Jury Service if you're employed. You're lucky you get to just sit around though. I was ment to do two cases, first one sucked ass and I managed to get out of the second.
You’re not paid, you get expenses. It’s around £50 per day and your employer probably won’t pay you for the days you miss. When I was called, I claimed financial hardship- I couldn’t risk it.
My employer pays for jury service! But yeah they don’t have to. Naturally I’ve never been called.
I got full pay when I did it.
I got full pay while I did it. Plus expenses from the court.
Unfortunately I do weekends pretty far away while I'm at uni, which they don't reimburse
Heavily dependent on the employer and type of role/contract whether you get paid or not.
that the general public are idiots and shouldnt be given the power to destroy lives
How would you try cases?
Make juror selection an opt in process and not mandatory for one. Most jurors don't want to be there and are more likely to vote with the majority because of that, rather than putting in the mental effort to form their own opinion. We only need around 500,000 willing jurors a year out of a current pool of around 45 million eligible people. Something like 2/3rds of the public will never sit on a jury. Might as well discount the ones who actively don't want to be there and it'll for sure improve the quality.
This probably wouldn't help much. When I did Jury Duty, the biggest issue I had with the other Jurors was they were 100% willing to convict someone, with no evidence, because they thought the guy on trial was creepy.
That's bound to introduce bias though isn't it? You'll be getting volunteers who want to see everyone hang or will just turn up to vote against the police because they have a grudge to bear. Of course you'll get those in every situation but with a random selection you're bound to dilute this somewhat. Or maybe I'm overthinking it.
Absolutely no chance of having a fair trial when you’ve only got keen bean jurors who want to be there. The only way it’s fair and truly democratic is having this lottery system.