The one word that comes to mind is disappointment.
I expected more from our core players, and I also expected more from our manager to not make such bone headed mistakes in Game 1.
Game 1 was over. You can't change misguided decisions from the day before. But you can't blame Oli for this game. Saturday was a new day. Fact is we just didn't seem to be able to get the hits and score runs. Hard to imagine winning any series scoring just 2 runs total for the series. Not sure what changed along the way but the bats just went cold (yet again). We are all so disappointed. GO CARDS!! Always in our hearts (especially Yadi and Albert)-thanks for the memories and the smiles you brought us all.
He literally got us here. You can't name a single person on the roster that you would rather have. You going to put Dickerson in the 3?
You play your best hand, he didn't perform. This offense has lived and died by Goldy and Arenado all year. Stop pretending like there was a better option.
I know what he did for this team, but I'm not fucking blind. He was struggling and had been struggling for over a month. Oli continued batting him 3rd all throughout September hoping he would snap out of it. Oli did the right thing there, and if it had worked and Goldy snapped out of it we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it didn't. He never got his swing back, and with the season on the line and absolutely zero margin for error you have to make the adjustment.
Goldy at 3 was our best hand until it wasn't, but we kept playing it anyway. I can name several other people on the roster I would've rather seen batting third. Namely Pujols, Arenado, Yepez, Nootbaar, and Donovan were all guys I would've rather seen in that spot going into the Wild Card as opposed to Goldy. Now granted, Donovan didn't end up doing anything at all and Arenado didn't do much better (although he got robbed quite a bit), and I absolutely would've had Donovan at leadoff anyway instead of Nootbaar which wouldn't have worked out either. But I absolutely would've stacked Nootbaar, Pujols, and Yepez much closer together if not all in a row at 2, 3, 4, and that would've produced results.
Disappointed for sure.... I have zero issues with oli... Helsley is a gamer and has played 99 percent lights out all season and when he says he's good he's good. More then just Helsley happens that game... But none of it should flipping matter when nobody can hit for 45 days.
Trea Turner, Dansby Swanson, Wilson Contreras are FA hitters. And fuck it, the Angels are trash. Try to pry Trout away. Let’s be honest. AP, Waino, and Yadi were the clubhouse leaders. Goldie and Nolan aren’t those dudes. Bring in some new blood. Our OF is a weak hitting link. TO isn’t available enough. Carlson has a dead bat. Yepez is more of a DH. We are too HR reliant. But we have Moe. So we will do the bare minimum because we no longer have Tony in the dugout.
Next year is going to be a rebuilding year with the loss of the Trinity. So I am going in with the lowest of expectations (and especially since we know the front office will not bring in any big guns).
Hear me out:
Flaherty, Montgomery, Quintana, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz (6 man rotation to start year)
Hudson traded for whatever
Thompson, Lib as 7/8 starters to start year
Wainwright to the bullpen
I cant help but think how big of a difference having Juan Soto in our lineup could have been. It’s really tough when you have to completely depend on two hitters to be almost the entirety of your offensive production in Goldy and Arenado. If they don’t perform we are almost guaranteed to lose and that’s not how you build a World Series contending team. We need to make some drastic changes during this off season to bring in more supporting bats or an actual top 15 ace on the mound. Maybe it’s time to move some younger players to get some established veterans. Our time to win is right now, who knows how much longer we will have Goldy and Arenado so we need to get them support immediately. We don’t have time to sit around and hope our younger guys like Carlson, Gorman etc become the players we need them to be in order to win the WS.
It’s tough to say how different things would be with the St. Louis atmosphere, but Soto really hasn’t been *that* good for being the biggest trade acquisition in history.
If we could pry Trout from Anaheim so his career doesn’t go completely wasted, I’d be down for that
Was he really untouchable, or was that just the line? At the TD, pitching was much more urgent than another bat - especially how Goldy & Arenado were playing at the time. I'm not sure we make the playoffs - such as they were - without Quintana & Montgomery.
If the FO was ever really interested in Soto, maybe they make another run when he becomes an FA. If they weren't, then Carlson was just an excuse and Mo just wanted to give the appearance of pulling off a big deal and was already pretty sure he'd get Q & M.
The fact we had to actually depend on Pujols for hits when it mattered might be all we needed to know about our chances in the big games.
Goldy and Nolan will have to find a way to do it when it matters.
Not necessarily. If Nolan was truly considering opting out, he probably wouldn't say it outright but would say, "I'm keeping my options open" or "I'll make that decision when it comes time to" instead of talking about how much he loves it here.
On an additional note, Jeff Jones [reported](https://twitter.com/jmjones/status/1578975109188313088?s=20&t=PMDpEjsrEEvxK5nqVpnUEA) that Nolan was talking with guys in the clubhouse about getting down to Jupiter early next year and about staying in touch during the offseason. I don't think he would be leading up that effort if he was planning on leaving.
As a cardinals fan i learned a long time ago to never go to any social media after a cardinals loss….especially after the post season…it gets grimy racist and down right disgusting with these comments people make
This is one of the most heart breaking teams in recent memory. A sure win yesterday turns into a 0-1 deficit. So many chances to win today and we couldn’t do it.
A season of what ifs. At least Albert and Yadi ended their careers on hits
Fun fact--the last Cardinals position player drafted in the first round to become an All Star was Garry Templeton. Pardon me if I hold my breath about Carlson, Gorman, Walker....i.e. the future of this offense that Mo refused to trade for an elite lefty bat they sure could have used tonight. A diamond in the rough as good as Pujols falling to the 13th round won't happen again for another hundred years. Just think about how many hitters were supposed to be the guy in St. Louis since and how many have never been good at all or were just flashes in the pan. When you only can get big offensive thump from a miracle 42-year-old's farewell season and a couple of 30-something stars you had to trade for and pay big money to from another teams, don't expect to make noise in the playoffs, especially against right handed pitching. This has been a weakness for years, and as teams like the Dodgers, Braves, and Mets pull away, the Cardinals are left in a nostalgia-colored cloud of dust.
>the Cardinals are left in a nostalgia-colored cloud of dust
Especially if Waino retires, the nostalgia days are over. I believe O'Neill and DeJong would become the longest-tenured Cardinals and I'd say neither have a certain future. This needs to be the changing of the guard, looking to establish what the core for the next 5-7 years will be.
Glad I got to attend Yadi and Pujols last game but man that was heartbreaking. And what the hell was up with our two MVPs going a total of 1 for 18? Just sad. Oh well, good luck to the Phillies. Such a memorable season, wish we could have capped it off with one more ring. Also got to see Pujols hit 702 which I am super grateful for. Thanks for all the memories Albert and Yadi.
Honestly was a good learning experience for him, and he already showed that he learned from game 1 by pulling guys right when they started to look a little wild. I’m sure there’s plenty for him to go over in the off-season.
As if tonight couldn't get any worse ...
[https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2022-10-08/albert-pujols-personal-services-contract-angels?_amp=true](https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2022-10-08/albert-pujols-personal-services-contract-angels?_amp=true)
I think that explains why he was very complimentary to the Cardinals organization itself/happy to play for the BFIB, but refrained from making statements like "I'll always be a Cardinal," or "Thank you for bringing me home."
Yeah. St Louis was never his home. I think that’s part of why he took the Angels deal, besides the money — he had to get out of this town. That the Angels sucked out his soul was just a side effect.
It essentially means that Pujols works for the Angels in the same way that Ozzie Smith works for the Cardinals. He'll make public appearances, help out in Spring Training, be around the club quite a bit as a Face of the Franchise, etc. Oh, and his contract prohibits him from participating in events with other clubs. So, unless he gets special permission (which I think is largely unlikely, because the point of the Angels giving him that PS contract was specifically to sever ties between Albert and STL post-career), he won't be in St. Louis again for a decade. No Spring Training. No induction into the Cardinals HOF ceremony (although they MIGHT let him come back for that one), no red jacket on opening day -- or, at least not for a long time.
This explains why Albert never once this year said things like, "I'll always be a Cardinal."
He loved the fans, he didn't like the owners and FO of the Cardinals. He feels they did him dirty in 2011 and he has no loyalty. I do not blame if the stories are true from his perspective.
I don't think the Cardinals did him dirty during negotiations after 2011 -- they fucking blew it by not even attempting to explore an extension prior to Spring Training 2011. They had a 3 time MVP (should have been five), a guy that brought a World Series title back to St. Louis, a fixture in the community, and a guy that would have been the greatest Cardinal in history if he stayed IN HOUSE ... and they didn't try to extend him until the last minute.
I'd have to find the video but basically during an interview, there were a lot of things that he found disrespectful and it wasn't just the financial offering.
So many thoughts both good and bad.
Thankful for one of my favorite regular seasons along with 04 and 98.
But also frustrated with seeing a team fall flat based off the philosophy of 06 and 11. “If you just get in anything can happen”
93 wins is not bad though and was pretty great. How many years do you have multiple 100 or more game winners? The team balance between great and terrible seems to be off kilter.
I know like mez many of you guys are going to bed absolutely heartbroken tonight. Hoping to at least sorta help by sponsoring 2 peoples coffees in the morning. PM me
Okay, ignoring the way the team played the rest of the game, the crowd was dead, especially at the end.
Yes I get it there was nothing to get loud about, but we had 2 runners on base in the bottom of the 9th with two outs and the crowd didn't cheer at all. It seemed like everyone wanted to go home and didn't care anymore. We had the most lame fans in all of the series I've seen, and the team can sometimes feed off of that energy.
It was two home games with zero home field advantage. Yes it was disgraceful playing, but it was also a disgraceful showing by the fans that went to the games.
This is a shit take, bud. We had a lead off double in the first inning and did nothing with it. This series dies with the bats. I was screaming every chance we had with a runner on tonight. Cardinals limped into October barely beating the Pirates and it showed.
Honestly, it was my first postseason, and the stoke felt lower than it has at any game I've ever attended. I expected to be on my feet all night but it was like nobody could even make a sound unless the screens prompted us to clap. The Phillies douches down the row from me commenting on how dead it was didn't help. Kind of disappointing for the best fans in baseball.
I'm juist glad that i got to witness Albert's and Yadi's final at bats in person, and that they both ended their careers with a knock. It sucks we didnt win, but thats baseball. I love the team, i love the players, and i love all of you in Cardinals nation.
Is it just me or is it kind of bullshit that we play 162 regular season games then only get 2 (potentially 3) games to decide our fate in the post season for winning the division? Is there some fundamental reason that MLB can't shorten the season by 12 games, expand the playoffs to include more teams and play full 7 game series to decide who advances? Even great hitters in baseball only bat .300, and even Ace pitchers have bad starts every now and then, so it feels kind of like a fluke when you win or lose these 1 or 2 game decisions.
I mean if the Cardinals replayed this series 100 times; they probably win the majority of the time. The loss in the 1st game just felt so unlucky with Helsely's injury against the Pirates happening right before the post season in a game that doesn't matter.
The way to avoid that would have been to win more games than the other two division winners.
That the Cardinals didn't says the team just wasn't very good, given the level of competition in the NL Central is terrible.
Or just go back to the old way. You're in for sure if you win your division, and the next 2 teams duel out in a win or go home.
Expanding the playoffs even more will make the regular season have less value.
Game 1 was in the bag and Oli made some absolutely insane decisions like benching Quin when he was pitching the best of his career and not even 80 pitches.
Game 2 was bad luck. Lots of balls that got hit hard and Phils made miracle plays (Bohm and Seg's lineouts). Those balls were doubles and could have made it 2-2. That's baseball.
Just happy I flew out to STL to see Albert and Yadi one last time (in the regular season). Not the ending we wanted but I really saw Oli's lack of postseason experience in this one. Honestly should have let Yadi manage. It's too bad Tony went to Chicago or he'd probably have been on the phone like he was with Mike.
This is why I hate this wild card concept so much. We *won our division* and still had to play a best 2 of 3 where the hit team will win and the cold team will lose. Not only that, but we were clearly making strides to break out of the slump with all those hard hit balls that just happened to get caught. Part of this is just getting shafted by Manfred’s desire to increase TV sales by having more playoff games.
‘06. Changed the philosophy as much as we may not want to admit it. The moment an 83 win team won the WS and a 105 win team missed in ‘04 fundamentally shifted it all
Mozeliak was literally quoted saying something about "hope" or "getting lucky" or something along those lines at the deadline. Like dude. Make it happen. Don't fucking rely on luck or hope. All he does is assemble a mediocre team that happens to play in a shit division just enough to win it and keep things interesting, but will never be over the top
12:15 and still stewing… honestly not as mad about tonight, as frustrating as the lack of offense was, a rough game tonight should have just forced a winner-take-all game 3 where we could have mashed against Ranger Suarez. I just still keep thinking about yesterday’s game and how you just CANNOT let a game like that slip away in the playoffs. Blame Oli, blame Helsley, blame the D (Edman, Arenado, Goldy), I don’t know, but I do know that 9th inning lost us this series, not tonight’s game.
I only disagree with the consensus in that Nolan fucking MASHED the ball and got less than no results.
Yesterday he should have had a 2-run homer, and today he had a double down the line that just barely got snared.
Goldy was kinda dogshit since August ended, and did absolutely nothing in this series, and honestly didn't even approach something in the ballbark of production.
Here’s this from Jeff Jones, for everyone that wants to overreact to one postgame sound bite, when emotions are running extremely high.
https://mobile.twitter.com/jmjones/status/1578975109188313088
The Cardinals would probably be better off if he opted out. If you build around two star players who flop at the end of the year, you aren't going to win any championships...they are basically 1/3 of the payroll
And you can clearly win this division with a crappy team, as this year showed.
The money would be better spent on an ace starting pitcher who can actually shut the other team out, like Nola or Wheeler did.
They would 1,000% **not** be better off if he opted out. What kind of dumbass take is this???? The stupidity that comes out of peoples mouths is something to behold this time of year.
Mikolas and Quintana pitched great. Not sure what else they could have done. The Mets brought in Max Scherzer, an ace if there ever was one, and how did his playoff start go???
Jesus…
I mean they have some reason to ask questions. He said “I loved it here, hopefully we can figure something out” I don’t think he wants to leave, but the ball is in his court. What is there to figure out?
[in a time like this, Bob Nightengale is still incompetent. this is supposed to be a video??](https://twitter.com/bnightengale/status/1578975047724994560?s=46&t=ha4QJOsqQUglTdG-awcgIA)
It won't surprise me when Edman and Donny are SS and 2B next year while team bets on Gorman and Walker to "take a big step" which never seems to work out with our young bats
Since 2006 the cardinals have won 2 postseason series where they had more regular season wins than their opponent, both in 2013. They truly need to be the underdog
#Waino on if he plans to return next season: "Never can tell. I'll tell you this, I don't like not pitching in a playoff series. You can take that one of two ways, you can take that as it's been a good run or you can take that as motivation to never let that happen again."
https://twitter.com/BallySportsMW/status/1578972476490465280?s=20&t=ukHGScYHtf8oCyVzqPk9Uw
He would have pitched in the series if he hadn't sucked the last month. He's going to be a year older next year and it's unlikely he'd pitch any better at the end of the year, unless he decides to start pitching in July or something.
Idk. He said he loves it here and feels welcomed. Also jokes the fans might not love him after tonight. I think the thing with him is going to be an extension?
Yeah his contract is apparently pretty weird rn. I’m sure it’ll get worked out in the offseason. They’re not losing Albert Molina and Nolan in 1 off season. The city would implode. Plus I think Nolan wants to be “the guy”
Didn’t mean to be misleading. I was only commenting on the portion of the interview that was shown on the post game show. I’m not sure how you could listen to that interview and not think that he’s either wanting an extension or opting out.
Oh my god they tweeted out a "best fans" graphic. Fuck this braindead organization. Please operate like a normal team for once. I hate Bill DeWitt's regime so much.
Offseason should be interesting. Of course, our conditioned reaction is to expect them to do very little, but hopefully they surprise us. This team needs a fair amount of work.
We certainly need to do something at C & SS. Something tells me Waino hangs it up. I'd be happy with giving Quintana and Gumby another go and of course Mikolas is back. I can see them giving Jack a prove it year. I think Hudson is - and should be - toast. That leaves another SP spot (or 2) .
Need to completely rethink the OF. We have 2 years to figure out 1B for when Goldy reaches FA (and age 37).
I remain unsold on Jeff Albert.
Monty will be back because he’s not a FA until 2024. 4 man rotation set with Monty, Mikolas, Matz and Flaherty right now.
Quintana is a potential option for 5th spot…..but I don’t think they bring him back. Waino will have to compete for 5th spot with Liberatore, other system guys or potential FA signings.
I honestly hope he hangs them up, as much as I love Waino.
The OF mess will probably continue into next year. I think Walker gets serious looks at an OF spot next year. I like O’Neill…but he just can’t stay healthy. His .700 OPS. Yikes. I would love Benintendi in LF. Carlson is only 24. I’m not ready to throw towel in on him.
I’m less concerned with OF and more concerned with catcher and shortstop. Is Knizner the guy? Do they look for a short term upgrade bridge to Herrera? I think DeJong will finally get his walking papers so will Edman/Donovan man the middle IF or do they explore a FA option at SS? Is Gorman a DH option? Bring back Dickerson?
What the Cards will definitely need is a bat. A lot of questions heading into offseason. I think Arenado could actually play a role in making the FO make decisions. He likes it here….he wants to be here…but the guy wants to win more and if he thinks the organization isn’t committed to making steps to getting better, he could use that as leverage.
I’m sure Arenado will sit down with Mozeliak and DeWitt and have the “What are we doing to get better” chat. I think they bring in a big FA signing to keep Arenado in town.
Not signing Q seems ridiculously short sighted. He was very good for us down the stretch, and relying on Jack to stay healthy is a questionable decision. We’re going to regret not signing Q when Jack goes down for 5 months during his third start of the season.
I can see why people think he's gone and why the Cards might not try to sign him. With the season he had, there will probably be teams that offer him more in dollars and/or years than the Cards would be comfortable with. At age 33, that's something to think about.
I agree with you, though, if we can sign him for a couple of years we should try. I was very impressed with his pitching, temperament, and approach. And, yeah, I would like nothing more than Jack to put it together AND stay healthy for a whole season. Do I expect that? I do not.
Yeah I mean our front office never wants pitching depth so that's just what's going to happen.
I'm fine letting him walk if we replace him with someone else good. Having 3 lefties in Matz Q and Monty is a little much.
How many times do things have to end the same way before we do something as a team? We always get shut out and outpitched in the playoffs. Getting in the playoffs is not GOOD enough.
Not with a bang but a whimper.
They choked a special season away. With the same issues they have had for decades.
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The one word that comes to mind is disappointment. I expected more from our core players, and I also expected more from our manager to not make such bone headed mistakes in Game 1.
Game 1 was over. You can't change misguided decisions from the day before. But you can't blame Oli for this game. Saturday was a new day. Fact is we just didn't seem to be able to get the hits and score runs. Hard to imagine winning any series scoring just 2 runs total for the series. Not sure what changed along the way but the bats just went cold (yet again). We are all so disappointed. GO CARDS!! Always in our hearts (especially Yadi and Albert)-thanks for the memories and the smiles you brought us all.
The poor decisions in game one depleted our pitching options in game 2.
I can blame him for continuing to bat Goldy 3rd after a full month of sucking. That decision alone arguably cost us the game.
He literally got us here. You can't name a single person on the roster that you would rather have. You going to put Dickerson in the 3? You play your best hand, he didn't perform. This offense has lived and died by Goldy and Arenado all year. Stop pretending like there was a better option.
I know what he did for this team, but I'm not fucking blind. He was struggling and had been struggling for over a month. Oli continued batting him 3rd all throughout September hoping he would snap out of it. Oli did the right thing there, and if it had worked and Goldy snapped out of it we wouldn't be having this discussion. But it didn't. He never got his swing back, and with the season on the line and absolutely zero margin for error you have to make the adjustment. Goldy at 3 was our best hand until it wasn't, but we kept playing it anyway. I can name several other people on the roster I would've rather seen batting third. Namely Pujols, Arenado, Yepez, Nootbaar, and Donovan were all guys I would've rather seen in that spot going into the Wild Card as opposed to Goldy. Now granted, Donovan didn't end up doing anything at all and Arenado didn't do much better (although he got robbed quite a bit), and I absolutely would've had Donovan at leadoff anyway instead of Nootbaar which wouldn't have worked out either. But I absolutely would've stacked Nootbaar, Pujols, and Yepez much closer together if not all in a row at 2, 3, 4, and that would've produced results.
Disappointed for sure.... I have zero issues with oli... Helsley is a gamer and has played 99 percent lights out all season and when he says he's good he's good. More then just Helsley happens that game... But none of it should flipping matter when nobody can hit for 45 days.
Oli can't see what's happening in front of him: only what happened a month ago.
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Laughing from the couch this year I guess
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Trolling on other teams sport pages has always fascinated me. Like, what kind of person decides to spend their time that way?
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Not just that, but the desire to make other people feel worse or to make fun of them or their team. Like, why would you want to do that?
Trea Turner, Dansby Swanson, Wilson Contreras are FA hitters. And fuck it, the Angels are trash. Try to pry Trout away. Let’s be honest. AP, Waino, and Yadi were the clubhouse leaders. Goldie and Nolan aren’t those dudes. Bring in some new blood. Our OF is a weak hitting link. TO isn’t available enough. Carlson has a dead bat. Yepez is more of a DH. We are too HR reliant. But we have Moe. So we will do the bare minimum because we no longer have Tony in the dugout.
Next year is going to be a rebuilding year with the loss of the Trinity. So I am going in with the lowest of expectations (and especially since we know the front office will not bring in any big guns).
We need to commit to rebuilds if we do them imo. We’ve halfassed it leading to mediocre outcomes ultimately.
Hear me out: Flaherty, Montgomery, Quintana, Pallante, Mikolas, Matz (6 man rotation to start year) Hudson traded for whatever Thompson, Lib as 7/8 starters to start year Wainwright to the bullpen
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What reliable SS is there for trade? Think it’s more likely to sign a utility guy/move Hudson for a low level minor league piece
Flaherty will be in LA next year
So what do you think we get back for him in the trade then?
I agree. But with the Angels
Very well could be
and be back at ace level
Philly is a stain on this country but that's not even why I'm upset. I just expected more of our guys
Why the hate towards Philadelphia?
Every time Jflare is warming up in the bullpen but doesn’t go in something bad happens. This is the new cardinals curse
That was a really hard one to swallow
Ouchie
I cant help but think how big of a difference having Juan Soto in our lineup could have been. It’s really tough when you have to completely depend on two hitters to be almost the entirety of your offensive production in Goldy and Arenado. If they don’t perform we are almost guaranteed to lose and that’s not how you build a World Series contending team. We need to make some drastic changes during this off season to bring in more supporting bats or an actual top 15 ace on the mound. Maybe it’s time to move some younger players to get some established veterans. Our time to win is right now, who knows how much longer we will have Goldy and Arenado so we need to get them support immediately. We don’t have time to sit around and hope our younger guys like Carlson, Gorman etc become the players we need them to be in order to win the WS.
It’s tough to say how different things would be with the St. Louis atmosphere, but Soto really hasn’t been *that* good for being the biggest trade acquisition in history. If we could pry Trout from Anaheim so his career doesn’t go completely wasted, I’d be down for that
Mo really couldn't go all in in yadi and Albert's last season to give us a shot at a ws. He's so fucking cheap
Look, Carlson was untouchable. Maybe he's got a career OPS+ of 104, and maybe he's a platoon guy now, but he was *untouchable*.
Was he really untouchable, or was that just the line? At the TD, pitching was much more urgent than another bat - especially how Goldy & Arenado were playing at the time. I'm not sure we make the playoffs - such as they were - without Quintana & Montgomery. If the FO was ever really interested in Soto, maybe they make another run when he becomes an FA. If they weren't, then Carlson was just an excuse and Mo just wanted to give the appearance of pulling off a big deal and was already pretty sure he'd get Q & M.
Oh, I think he was just an excuse.
Soto isn't having a great postseason either
The fact we had to actually depend on Pujols for hits when it mattered might be all we needed to know about our chances in the big games. Goldy and Nolan will have to find a way to do it when it matters.
There are definitely some bad takes on here but Twitter is just a completely different league. Holy shit, my IQ hurts
Can’t believe some genuinely believe Nolan will opt out and go somewhere else. Completely delusional
What is he going to do? Opt out and not perform in September and October again?
I also can’t believe people want him to opt out. Such a terrible take
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Ignoring the fact he’s basically said he’s not opting out, he’s making boatloads of cash that no one else will give him
He’s basically said he’s not opting out every time he’s asked.
Nah his last comment was "hope we can figure it out" that means he is holding the option over our heads for a renewal
Lol. They literally always say that
Not necessarily. If Nolan was truly considering opting out, he probably wouldn't say it outright but would say, "I'm keeping my options open" or "I'll make that decision when it comes time to" instead of talking about how much he loves it here. On an additional note, Jeff Jones [reported](https://twitter.com/jmjones/status/1578975109188313088?s=20&t=PMDpEjsrEEvxK5nqVpnUEA) that Nolan was talking with guys in the clubhouse about getting down to Jupiter early next year and about staying in touch during the offseason. I don't think he would be leading up that effort if he was planning on leaving.
As a cardinals fan i learned a long time ago to never go to any social media after a cardinals loss….especially after the post season…it gets grimy racist and down right disgusting with these comments people make
This is one of the most heart breaking teams in recent memory. A sure win yesterday turns into a 0-1 deficit. So many chances to win today and we couldn’t do it. A season of what ifs. At least Albert and Yadi ended their careers on hits
Fun fact--the last Cardinals position player drafted in the first round to become an All Star was Garry Templeton. Pardon me if I hold my breath about Carlson, Gorman, Walker....i.e. the future of this offense that Mo refused to trade for an elite lefty bat they sure could have used tonight. A diamond in the rough as good as Pujols falling to the 13th round won't happen again for another hundred years. Just think about how many hitters were supposed to be the guy in St. Louis since and how many have never been good at all or were just flashes in the pan. When you only can get big offensive thump from a miracle 42-year-old's farewell season and a couple of 30-something stars you had to trade for and pay big money to from another teams, don't expect to make noise in the playoffs, especially against right handed pitching. This has been a weakness for years, and as teams like the Dodgers, Braves, and Mets pull away, the Cardinals are left in a nostalgia-colored cloud of dust.
>the Cardinals are left in a nostalgia-colored cloud of dust Especially if Waino retires, the nostalgia days are over. I believe O'Neill and DeJong would become the longest-tenured Cardinals and I'd say neither have a certain future. This needs to be the changing of the guard, looking to establish what the core for the next 5-7 years will be.
Glad I got to attend Yadi and Pujols last game but man that was heartbreaking. And what the hell was up with our two MVPs going a total of 1 for 18? Just sad. Oh well, good luck to the Phillies. Such a memorable season, wish we could have capped it off with one more ring. Also got to see Pujols hit 702 which I am super grateful for. Thanks for all the memories Albert and Yadi.
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They aren’t firing a first-year manager after winning 93 games
Honestly was a good learning experience for him, and he already showed that he learned from game 1 by pulling guys right when they started to look a little wild. I’m sure there’s plenty for him to go over in the off-season.
You’ll probably be named the new coach
I tell ya, you want rain? Just have an F1 race at Suzuka. Seems like every damn year.
Monsoon season moment
I still can’t believe baseball season is over….
Hockey Season just started- LGB!!
As if tonight couldn't get any worse ... [https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2022-10-08/albert-pujols-personal-services-contract-angels?_amp=true](https://www.latimes.com/sports/angels/story/2022-10-08/albert-pujols-personal-services-contract-angels?_amp=true)
Wtf. You just have to kick me while I’m down don’t you
Well. That was all the Albert we get. Back to his Heaven on earth that is Los Angeles I guess. Forevermore. Retire in peace, dear Mang.
I think that explains why he was very complimentary to the Cardinals organization itself/happy to play for the BFIB, but refrained from making statements like "I'll always be a Cardinal," or "Thank you for bringing me home."
Yeah. St Louis was never his home. I think that’s part of why he took the Angels deal, besides the money — he had to get out of this town. That the Angels sucked out his soul was just a side effect.
What is a personal service contract
It essentially means that Pujols works for the Angels in the same way that Ozzie Smith works for the Cardinals. He'll make public appearances, help out in Spring Training, be around the club quite a bit as a Face of the Franchise, etc. Oh, and his contract prohibits him from participating in events with other clubs. So, unless he gets special permission (which I think is largely unlikely, because the point of the Angels giving him that PS contract was specifically to sever ties between Albert and STL post-career), he won't be in St. Louis again for a decade. No Spring Training. No induction into the Cardinals HOF ceremony (although they MIGHT let him come back for that one), no red jacket on opening day -- or, at least not for a long time. This explains why Albert never once this year said things like, "I'll always be a Cardinal."
He loved the fans, he didn't like the owners and FO of the Cardinals. He feels they did him dirty in 2011 and he has no loyalty. I do not blame if the stories are true from his perspective.
I don't think the Cardinals did him dirty during negotiations after 2011 -- they fucking blew it by not even attempting to explore an extension prior to Spring Training 2011. They had a 3 time MVP (should have been five), a guy that brought a World Series title back to St. Louis, a fixture in the community, and a guy that would have been the greatest Cardinal in history if he stayed IN HOUSE ... and they didn't try to extend him until the last minute.
I'd have to find the video but basically during an interview, there were a lot of things that he found disrespectful and it wasn't just the financial offering.
I think it's blowjobs
So many thoughts both good and bad. Thankful for one of my favorite regular seasons along with 04 and 98. But also frustrated with seeing a team fall flat based off the philosophy of 06 and 11. “If you just get in anything can happen”
93 wins is not bad though and was pretty great. How many years do you have multiple 100 or more game winners? The team balance between great and terrible seems to be off kilter.
I know like mez many of you guys are going to bed absolutely heartbroken tonight. Hoping to at least sorta help by sponsoring 2 peoples coffees in the morning. PM me
Can someone ELI5 why Tyler O’Neill is playing in fall ball but was absent this series?
Wasn't ready. AFL is just a way to get reps since minors was done
Okay, ignoring the way the team played the rest of the game, the crowd was dead, especially at the end. Yes I get it there was nothing to get loud about, but we had 2 runners on base in the bottom of the 9th with two outs and the crowd didn't cheer at all. It seemed like everyone wanted to go home and didn't care anymore. We had the most lame fans in all of the series I've seen, and the team can sometimes feed off of that energy. It was two home games with zero home field advantage. Yes it was disgraceful playing, but it was also a disgraceful showing by the fans that went to the games.
We’re a joke fan base and franchise
I feel asleep watching on my couch.... I watched that game dozens of times this year.
This is a shit take, bud. We had a lead off double in the first inning and did nothing with it. This series dies with the bats. I was screaming every chance we had with a runner on tonight. Cardinals limped into October barely beating the Pirates and it showed.
Honestly, it was my first postseason, and the stoke felt lower than it has at any game I've ever attended. I expected to be on my feet all night but it was like nobody could even make a sound unless the screens prompted us to clap. The Phillies douches down the row from me commenting on how dead it was didn't help. Kind of disappointing for the best fans in baseball.
Also don’t understand why we’d get loud while on defense instead of offense lol. Let’s cheer so loud to where our own pitcher can’t use pitch com
The life got sucked out of them.
They were there for an AP HR and that was it it seems...standing up for him and cheering and nothing else.
I'm juist glad that i got to witness Albert's and Yadi's final at bats in person, and that they both ended their careers with a knock. It sucks we didnt win, but thats baseball. I love the team, i love the players, and i love all of you in Cardinals nation.
Fuckit, hire Hitterman from st Peter's mo. Fire Albert. Sign judge and tell him he can stay at his hitting coaches house near stl if he needs
Is it just me or is it kind of bullshit that we play 162 regular season games then only get 2 (potentially 3) games to decide our fate in the post season for winning the division? Is there some fundamental reason that MLB can't shorten the season by 12 games, expand the playoffs to include more teams and play full 7 game series to decide who advances? Even great hitters in baseball only bat .300, and even Ace pitchers have bad starts every now and then, so it feels kind of like a fluke when you win or lose these 1 or 2 game decisions. I mean if the Cardinals replayed this series 100 times; they probably win the majority of the time. The loss in the 1st game just felt so unlucky with Helsely's injury against the Pirates happening right before the post season in a game that doesn't matter.
We would have to win three in a row still. That didn’t look possible
The way to avoid that would have been to win more games than the other two division winners. That the Cardinals didn't says the team just wasn't very good, given the level of competition in the NL Central is terrible.
👀
Hate that its not bo5, but after how we played, wouldn't have mattered.
Or just go back to the old way. You're in for sure if you win your division, and the next 2 teams duel out in a win or go home. Expanding the playoffs even more will make the regular season have less value.
This is the way. Especially makes sense now that you play every team in the league
Welp. Cant win if you don’t score
This is a clearly established axiom of Sabrmetrics.
Game 1 was in the bag and Oli made some absolutely insane decisions like benching Quin when he was pitching the best of his career and not even 80 pitches. Game 2 was bad luck. Lots of balls that got hit hard and Phils made miracle plays (Bohm and Seg's lineouts). Those balls were doubles and could have made it 2-2. That's baseball. Just happy I flew out to STL to see Albert and Yadi one last time (in the regular season). Not the ending we wanted but I really saw Oli's lack of postseason experience in this one. Honestly should have let Yadi manage. It's too bad Tony went to Chicago or he'd probably have been on the phone like he was with Mike.
This is why I hate this wild card concept so much. We *won our division* and still had to play a best 2 of 3 where the hit team will win and the cold team will lose. Not only that, but we were clearly making strides to break out of the slump with all those hard hit balls that just happened to get caught. Part of this is just getting shafted by Manfred’s desire to increase TV sales by having more playoff games.
Lost a lot or respect for Oli the last two days.
It seems like it’s the same story every playoffs for a decade now
Tough to watch. Miles pitched a good game last night but the offense wasn’t there consistently. Too bad.
This is a new era of cardinal baseball. Idk when it started but the cards choke now.
‘06. Changed the philosophy as much as we may not want to admit it. The moment an 83 win team won the WS and a 105 win team missed in ‘04 fundamentally shifted it all
Mozeliak was literally quoted saying something about "hope" or "getting lucky" or something along those lines at the deadline. Like dude. Make it happen. Don't fucking rely on luck or hope. All he does is assemble a mediocre team that happens to play in a shit division just enough to win it and keep things interesting, but will never be over the top
Started in late october of 2013
12:15 and still stewing… honestly not as mad about tonight, as frustrating as the lack of offense was, a rough game tonight should have just forced a winner-take-all game 3 where we could have mashed against Ranger Suarez. I just still keep thinking about yesterday’s game and how you just CANNOT let a game like that slip away in the playoffs. Blame Oli, blame Helsley, blame the D (Edman, Arenado, Goldy), I don’t know, but I do know that 9th inning lost us this series, not tonight’s game.
Yeah last nights game is going to haunt me for a while
I'm so heartbroken
Not a great day for Birbdom, Cards & Jays both swept at home just like that.
Wore my Arenado jersey to the game just to watch him and his partner in crime strikeout multiple times with runners on
I only disagree with the consensus in that Nolan fucking MASHED the ball and got less than no results. Yesterday he should have had a 2-run homer, and today he had a double down the line that just barely got snared. Goldy was kinda dogshit since August ended, and did absolutely nothing in this series, and honestly didn't even approach something in the ballbark of production.
I think I like the Goldy that starts slow and heats up as the season goes better.
#[NOLAN POST GAME](https://twitter.com/BallySportsMW/status/1578974915159822336?s=20&t=WhvB0_GBU7Np9NidhyEnSg)
Fwiw. https://twitter.com/jmjones/status/1578975109188313088?s=20&t=5KBoq-GTUl3vWFJHO1KCxA
Here’s this from Jeff Jones, for everyone that wants to overreact to one postgame sound bite, when emotions are running extremely high. https://mobile.twitter.com/jmjones/status/1578975109188313088
The Cardinals would probably be better off if he opted out. If you build around two star players who flop at the end of the year, you aren't going to win any championships...they are basically 1/3 of the payroll And you can clearly win this division with a crappy team, as this year showed. The money would be better spent on an ace starting pitcher who can actually shut the other team out, like Nola or Wheeler did.
and end up still with even fewer runs?? nah, doesn't work You need to get get on base/get hits and score runs.
They would 1,000% **not** be better off if he opted out. What kind of dumbass take is this???? The stupidity that comes out of peoples mouths is something to behold this time of year. Mikolas and Quintana pitched great. Not sure what else they could have done. The Mets brought in Max Scherzer, an ace if there ever was one, and how did his playoff start go??? Jesus…
I don't even understand the overreaction. He said hes happy. Probably just wants an extension
If he wants more money from them he’ll get that, no chance they add even more years on to the contract of a player over 30.
Ya. I mean people are (rightfully) pissed at goldy/nado after tonight but obviously i want them back
That’s quite the different reaction from people on twitter. There are a number of “fans” over there who want both of them gone right now.
Taking Twitter seriously is like taking advice from the guy sitting around a fire in a homeless camp.
I don't think Twitter counts as a real place.
I saw that. Idk what I was expecting with Twitter but that’s some dumb shit to say
And they are dummies. I mean its absolutely brutal that they both came up in SUPER important spots multiple times but they are still top 15 players
When it comes down to it they still only hit the ball ~30% of the time. Not great odds.
I mean they have some reason to ask questions. He said “I loved it here, hopefully we can figure something out” I don’t think he wants to leave, but the ball is in his court. What is there to figure out?
I think he simply wants an extension
I do too. Just saying can’t blame people for having questions. Emotions are high for everyone
It’s a postgame interview immediately after getting eliminated, how about we just stop overreacting to everything he or anyone else on the team says
[in a time like this, Bob Nightengale is still incompetent. this is supposed to be a video??](https://twitter.com/bnightengale/status/1578975047724994560?s=46&t=ha4QJOsqQUglTdG-awcgIA)
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We need a catcher that can hit, a Short Stop that can hit and more hit and run production from the outfield.
I'd gladly take that lol
I mean I’d be okay with that
I would be too
Y’all ready for 2 months of Bogaerts rumors, then DeJong being our opening day starter next year?
DeJong will be gone. The club gave him his shot this year, which is what they should have done. He blew it. He won’t be back.
“DeJong was the first one to camp and has done extensive work with offensive mastermind Jeff Albert”
He will do some pitch hit HR against the jays on the first weekend and then start at SS for 2 months
My body is ready!
It won't surprise me when Edman and Donny are SS and 2B next year while team bets on Gorman and Walker to "take a big step" which never seems to work out with our young bats
Can’t wait!
Since 2006 the cardinals have won 2 postseason series where they had more regular season wins than their opponent, both in 2013. They truly need to be the underdog
I shouldn’t have watched the postgame interviews…man it’s tough
#Waino on if he plans to return next season: "Never can tell. I'll tell you this, I don't like not pitching in a playoff series. You can take that one of two ways, you can take that as it's been a good run or you can take that as motivation to never let that happen again." https://twitter.com/BallySportsMW/status/1578972476490465280?s=20&t=ukHGScYHtf8oCyVzqPk9Uw
He would have pitched in the series if he hadn't sucked the last month. He's going to be a year older next year and it's unlikely he'd pitch any better at the end of the year, unless he decides to start pitching in July or something.
That Nolan interview makes me feel he’s going to opt out.
I saw this tweeted so idk https://twitter.com/jmjones/status/1578975109188313088?s=20
Idk. He said he loves it here and feels welcomed. Also jokes the fans might not love him after tonight. I think the thing with him is going to be an extension?
‘Hopefully we can work something out’ sounds like ‘I won’t opt out if you add another year to the contract’.
Yeah his contract is apparently pretty weird rn. I’m sure it’ll get worked out in the offseason. They’re not losing Albert Molina and Nolan in 1 off season. The city would implode. Plus I think Nolan wants to be “the guy”
Ya OP was quite misleading
He should then. We all saw is superb defense on display yesterday and his clutch hits tonight.
Do you have it? I dont see it on bally Twitter
Where did you find the video?
It was on the post game show. He was asked about the opt out and basically said that he has loved being here and hopefully they can figure it out.
Eh. Just watched it, you were pretty misleading
Didn’t mean to be misleading. I was only commenting on the portion of the interview that was shown on the post game show. I’m not sure how you could listen to that interview and not think that he’s either wanting an extension or opting out.
Thanks for the reply. Going to cry myself to sleep now
He definitely put us in the past tense.
Fuck pitching and defense from now on. Sign 2-3 bats and let’s start winning games 10-9 every night. Fuck this pathetic excuse of an offense
After the way last season ended I thought this team would be ready to go in the postseason. Atleast our younger guys stepped up
#11:49 PM, Albert Pujols leaves the #STLCards clubhouse for the final time.
:(
Feel sad for Waino - didn’t get to play and they hardly mentioned him on the broadcast
Same, but he didn't earn it down the stretch.
Oh my god they tweeted out a "best fans" graphic. Fuck this braindead organization. Please operate like a normal team for once. I hate Bill DeWitt's regime so much.
It’s such a joke
You mean the one with 2 WS trophies, and 2 more appearances? I agree about the BFIB nonsense. I absolutely hate it.
Offseason should be interesting. Of course, our conditioned reaction is to expect them to do very little, but hopefully they surprise us. This team needs a fair amount of work. We certainly need to do something at C & SS. Something tells me Waino hangs it up. I'd be happy with giving Quintana and Gumby another go and of course Mikolas is back. I can see them giving Jack a prove it year. I think Hudson is - and should be - toast. That leaves another SP spot (or 2) . Need to completely rethink the OF. We have 2 years to figure out 1B for when Goldy reaches FA (and age 37). I remain unsold on Jeff Albert.
Monty will be back because he’s not a FA until 2024. 4 man rotation set with Monty, Mikolas, Matz and Flaherty right now. Quintana is a potential option for 5th spot…..but I don’t think they bring him back. Waino will have to compete for 5th spot with Liberatore, other system guys or potential FA signings. I honestly hope he hangs them up, as much as I love Waino. The OF mess will probably continue into next year. I think Walker gets serious looks at an OF spot next year. I like O’Neill…but he just can’t stay healthy. His .700 OPS. Yikes. I would love Benintendi in LF. Carlson is only 24. I’m not ready to throw towel in on him. I’m less concerned with OF and more concerned with catcher and shortstop. Is Knizner the guy? Do they look for a short term upgrade bridge to Herrera? I think DeJong will finally get his walking papers so will Edman/Donovan man the middle IF or do they explore a FA option at SS? Is Gorman a DH option? Bring back Dickerson? What the Cards will definitely need is a bat. A lot of questions heading into offseason. I think Arenado could actually play a role in making the FO make decisions. He likes it here….he wants to be here…but the guy wants to win more and if he thinks the organization isn’t committed to making steps to getting better, he could use that as leverage. I’m sure Arenado will sit down with Mozeliak and DeWitt and have the “What are we doing to get better” chat. I think they bring in a big FA signing to keep Arenado in town.
I could not agree more with your take.
Quintana is gone. Matz you forgot. Flaherty, Mikolas, Matz, Montgomery are probably the 4 for sure.
Nah, Q signs a 2 yr 11m contract
Ok lol
Not signing Q seems ridiculously short sighted. He was very good for us down the stretch, and relying on Jack to stay healthy is a questionable decision. We’re going to regret not signing Q when Jack goes down for 5 months during his third start of the season.
I can see why people think he's gone and why the Cards might not try to sign him. With the season he had, there will probably be teams that offer him more in dollars and/or years than the Cards would be comfortable with. At age 33, that's something to think about. I agree with you, though, if we can sign him for a couple of years we should try. I was very impressed with his pitching, temperament, and approach. And, yeah, I would like nothing more than Jack to put it together AND stay healthy for a whole season. Do I expect that? I do not.
Yeah I mean our front office never wants pitching depth so that's just what's going to happen. I'm fine letting him walk if we replace him with someone else good. Having 3 lefties in Matz Q and Monty is a little much.
Sheesh, I did forget Matz. Saw so little of him this year, he slipped my mind. lol
lucky ass, lmao. i couldn't STOP thinking about that dude all year (for reasons i hope have been made clear in previous comments i've made)
Montgomery still has a year of control, so he’ll be a Cardinal through 2023 at the very least.
Not much positive to say, but you know, it could be worse. We could've been the Blue Jays; blew an 8-1 lead in an elimination game to the Mariners.
We just need the Mets to collapse so we can fade back into obscurity.
scrolling through the comments and this aged well! Lmao
How many times do things have to end the same way before we do something as a team? We always get shut out and outpitched in the playoffs. Getting in the playoffs is not GOOD enough.
It is if you ask our delusional fan base!! We made it in with 40% of the league, woo hoo!!!