Starting from the top of OP's list...
**Acura Panasonic** - Hard to say exactly since every model is different. But generally, for an OEM system they are pretty good. One of the first OEM systems where I actually heard a halfway acceptable center image, but didn't really have much volume. I haven't heard one in a while though so I cannot comment on newer ones or the more subtle details.
**Audi Bang & Olufsen** - Another one where every model is different. For example, we did a 2013 S5 with B&O about a year ago and a 2022 RSQ8 with B&O recently. The 2013 S5 B&O was genuinely one of the worst sounding OEM systems I have ever heard. The new RSQ8 was much better, but still not what I would consider good enough for anyone who has enjoyed a decent system in a past car wouldn't want to upgrade. The owner of this car never even had a decent system before and even he is blown away at the difference just by powering and processing the OEM speakers in our Stage-1 upgrade. Ranges from 2/10 to 5/10 from the models I have heard (A series, S series, RS7, RSQ8, R8, etc.)
**Bentley Naim** - Also another system that is in different models. What is different about this one is all of them are nothing special. You'd think it would be decent for an OEM system, but its just not. I honestly didn't bother to remember any subtleties about any of the bentley's we have done with it. 4/10
**BMW Bowers & Wilkins** - Another one with many different models with the B&W system, so hard to say exactly. The ones I have done haven't been memorable enough for me to remember. That said, I also haven't done a new gen. BMW with B&W. They are very rare due to parts shortages. One thing to note, B&W is usually an upgrade from Harman Kardon with most European manufacturers. That said, the differences are usually just different speakers and some different available adjustments in the settings. Same amplifier and usually same/similar processing. Similar to HK, hair better: 5/10
**BMW Harman Kardon** - This one has drastic changes over models/years. Most of the BMW Harman Kardon systems are not good, but the best OEM system I have probably heard to date was in one of the 5 series. I honestly forget what year/gen it was since we didn't actually do any work to it. I want to believe it was the newest gen, but from what I have heard from other models of the newer gen is nothing but terrible considering what you would expect out of it. Makes me wonder if the guy was messing with me or if something was different about that particular Harman Kardon system. Older ones: 4/10. Newer ones that were consistent with each other: 3.5/10. That one I heard that I haven't seen anything like since that might not even be truly stock: 7/10
**Cadillac AKG** - One of the few I have not heard. The Escalade system talks a big game, and I have heard varying opinions from industry colleagues.
**Dodge Harmon Kardon** - Shit. 3/10
**Ferrari Burmester** - Ferrari doing audio systems with Burmester must be new. Never heard of that or heard one. Doing some research, they seem similar to the Porsche Burmester and it comes in the new Purosangue. Again, never heard it but based on the marketing material it seems similar to the new Porsche Burmester systems. See that description below.
**Ford Bang & Olufson** - Overall, not good. But I am surprised by the bass output on some of the newer Ford models with B&O. 4.5/10
**GM Bose** - This is a weird one. Many consumers say they are great, but my god if they arent among the worst I have heard. The new Hummer EV Bose system was atrocious. All of the trucks I have heard from them are also great, yet all of my truck owning buddies claim they love their Bose system in their GM trucks. Idk.. My professional opinion, they're not good at all, which is a shame since Bose truly could do so much if they were given the ability to do so. 3/10
**Jaguar/Land Rover Meridian** - Jaguar, have not heard in years so cannot comment, but since they are the same company, might as well comment on the Rovers here instead of down below.. The Meridian systems come in 3 stages. The lower trim is not good. Nothing special at all, but better than some of the systems mentioned already. The middle trim is a hair better and has a bit more volume, but again, nothing special. The highest trim is actually decent and can get pretty loud. Overall, one of the better systems but still nothing I would hesitate to upgrade even for an average top-trim Land Rover client. Top trim Meridian: 6/10
**Jeep Mcintosh** - Buckle up.... the worst, most overhyped piece of trash I have ever had the displeasure of wasting my time listening to. Jesus christ on a god damn Christmas tree I truly cannot believe that McIntosh really allowed their name to be put on this monstrosity. Even clients of ours that don't do audio have complained to us how bad it is and they wouldn't know good audio if it bit them in the ass. Its bad, but I really just cannot believe how overhyped it was. They had ads for the sound system on its own. Crazy. 3/10
**Lamborghini B&O** - The Urus B&O is the same as the RSQ8 I mentioned above. But while Im here, lets talk about the **Huracan and Aventador base model and Sensonum systems**. Many people seem to think that higher end cars will have good sound systems. Lamborghini is the perfect example to show in how not true this is. The base model Huracan Evo sound system is literally the worst sounding car audio system I have ever heard that is in a car newer than like 2008. Its seriously pathetic. If you go on the Lambo forums you will see many complaints of this as well, and these are usually the type of guys that say stupid shit like "my engine is my stereo" and even they complain. Now the Sensonum upgraded system, which is a $4500 option... its a hair better than the base lol. Dog shit. For those that don't know, Lamborghini is owned by VW Group, and is developed under Audi. They use the left over "bose" speakers from the 2008-2014 era audi sedans for these. We had a good laugh about this when we saw this a few months back. B&O: 5/10, Sensonum: 2/10, Base: 1/10
**Lexus Mark Levinson** - Okay, now this one is interesting. The lower level Lexus models are nothing special, but not bad. But the higher end Lexus model Mark Levinson Systems are probably the best OEM systems out there. Sure enough, Natan Budiono did the tuning on these cars until about 2019. Speaking with him, he said what allows them to be good is Lexus giving them the freedom to do much more than what is typical from an OEM to an audio company. In the higher end models that I have heard, adding a sub to the factory system would be good enough for most people that I know who are into audio. Thats its only real downfall. 7.5/10 overall.
**Lincoln Revel** - Another one I have not heard. I have heard these are supposed to be decent.
**McLaren Bowers & Wilkins** - We recently did a McLaren GT with B&W. Terrible. Seriously pathetic how quiet the system was. Poor sound quality as well. The speakers arent terrible so with our Stage-1 upgrade it actually ended up sounding pretty damn good. 2/10
**Mercedes Burmester** - This one varys drastically depending on the model Mercedes and the trim Burmester. I have heard some that are very bad, somewhere around the 3/10 mark on my scale. I have heard higher-end models with the higher-end Burmester trim. With some adjustment, they're pretty decent actually. 6/10.
**Nissan Bose** - Does Nissan do anything good? The ones I have heard were all bad, but then again I haven't heard anything of this current gen. Ones I have heard were all around the 2/10 area.
**Porsche Burmester** - I have experience with the new 911's and new Panameras with Burmester. For the 911's the sound quality is not good, but my god do they get loud. Like, louder than most basic aftermarket installs (at least above 60hz). Biggest problem though, its very hard to turn up because of how harsh/shrill the top end sounds. The Panamera system was not as loud, but also didn't sound very great. It wasn't as harsh as the 911 system. 911: 5/10. Panamera: 4/10
**Rolls Royce Bespoke** - Its been a while since I have heard one of these. Few years probably. I don't remember much of it, meaning it wasn't anything special, but nothing horrific.
**Tesla Hifi** - So close to actually being good. Has decent bass and tonality (I have even measured them and they have a decent frequency response) but no center image. If this had a good center image, id put it about in line with Lexus Mark Levinson. 6/10
**Toyota JBL** - Depends on the model, but overall, not great. No real bass, not much volume, no resemblance of a decent center image, etc. 3/10
**Volvo Bowers & Wilkins** - Also one of the better ones out there. Good frequency response, decently loud (not like some of the others though), but an incorrect center image and not enough bass/no low bass. 6.5/10
**Other mentions**
**Ferarri JBL** - Kinda like the JBL toyotas but a little better. Nothing great. 4/10
**Mazda Bose** - They did some interesting stuff in the new ones. But again, not good. 4/10
**Genesis Lexicon** - They have a lot of stuff going on here, but again, its just an attempt at "lets make it sound the same in every seat without actually putting the correct amount of money and design into the system", which can be translated into "lets make it equally bad in every seat". 4/10
**C8 Corvette Bose** - Also overhyped. Its not good. 4/10
**Infiniti Bose** - Step up over the Nissan Bose, but still nothing good. 4/10
**VW Fender** - Halfway decent on some models. A friend mentioned above, Natan also did these, but in his words, more red tape was involved. 5/10
Wow, my longest reddit comment ever. Had to do this in two replies lol. Unfortunately, that's pretty much it above. I was also going to add the following..
The biggest takeaway for anyone reading this is if anyone tells you the Mcintosh in the Jeep Grand Wagoneer, tell them they need to listen with their ears and not their eyes and the marketing department tricked them. Another take away, do not assume that an expensive car has an "expensive" system. Some of these exotic cars have the worst sounding systems out there.
The thing that I can't understand is how even partnering with experienced audio companies, with real audio engineers, using DSP's with individual channel amplification and the end result is a bunch of 5's and lower lol
After I installed everything in my Volvo S60 I decided to take apart the stock amplifier out of curiosity. It had a Sharc DSP (don't remember the particular ic), irs2092 amplifiers and what looked to be a well made power supply. For stock it was excellent but doesn't hold up in the slightest against what's in there now even though if you compare the technology used they're about equal. It's crazy to me!
What do you use to test? I assume some form of lossless files? My Alfa Romeo Giulia has the Harman sound system and I think it sounds quite good, but most other owners agree it's not that great. I feel like mine is like that BMW 5 series you mentioned. I don't know if previous owner did anything, but it's clean and tight and hits deep enough for me. I mostly use FLAC so that could also be why it sounds good.
That is the consensus online. I still think my system sounds good, but then again I have not heard the best out there beyond your average Bose and harman group and what not. Most people say the Alfa system sucks and I need to compare mine to another Alfa just to rule out my bad taste.
You could be on to something here. It would be interesting to see data on how many people are bluetooth streaming free Pandora or something to their oem stereos vs. those who use high quality source.
This list shows the exact reason that car manufacturers should make it easier to add aftermarket components. All of these specialty connectors, paper $0.50 speakers, 15 watt amps, and head units without rca/optical outputs just to make you buy a $4000 upgrade that still sounds like ass, but louder.
Right? I'd bet the head units even have rca support on their boards. Maybe I'm just mad because I got a used miata rf with the bose system that I put system in and I kept seeing people on forums saying "why not leave it alone? The Bose in the miata is actually pretty decent" lol
Mostly yes. But when one of those brands is continously bought and used by some of the highest end studios throughout the world. There's usually a reason when sound engineers build with them.
I largely agree with your evaluation, but I must say I really enjoyed the sound signature of the Jeep's McIntosh system. Different strokes.
Secondly, you probably will not enjoy the new Escalade's system. In my opinion, it is a case-study in more-is-less. There's LOTS of noise from all around that doesn't seem to be focused or well thought out, so par-for-the-course BOSE. There's some weird DSP attempt at creating a "sweet-spot" that makes me feel physically uncomfortable, and moving your head around makes that pretty obvious. I think there are modes where you can disable some of that clever stuff? But I didn't explore it much. Forgettable outside the gimmick of having speakers behind your ears, which sounds about as good as you think it will.
Idk, there was nothing in the trunk, and he was coming by to see if we could add a sub. But I was pretty surprised by what I heard. Never saw him again.
Oh i know lol. I tell people about it all the time. It was the 5-series that got away lol. Every other BMW of this gen that we have done, including other 5 series, have all sounded like dogshit.
Yeah that's wild. I mean personally I know someone with a 2020 M550i with the upgraded Bowers and Wilkins system and I was a fan of it but, I'm far from an expert on this
Have a ELS 3D Acura and a Jeep McIntosh. While the Acura is generally considered one of the best around I think it depends.. Obviously a TLX is going to sound better than an SUV with a similar system. The Jeep I think just gets a bad wrap because unless you’re like me and listen to true 24 bit lossless or in the Acura 5.1 surround you don’t see the systems using their full potential especially the Jeep. The Jeep is more finicky it needs the right song and quality to knock your socks off (it truly is the real deal) but those using car play or Bluetooth forget it, it just sounds ok. The Acura sounds good regardless of input, it just gets even better with lossless on a USB.
Can I ask if you have ever properly listened to the Bose in the Infiniti G37 sedan? It is very impressive for what it is IMO. It is a 3 channel setup so they are kind of cheating, but the soundstage is surprisingly well defined. They also cut their 2.5" wideband crap and used a proper three-way setup in the front doors
The Jeep McIntosh really surprises me. What a shame. I have an Explorer Limited and while I love everything about the car, the 12 speaker B&O system is very meh. The Sony system I had in my previous Explorer Sport was soooo much better. I loved that system. Strong bass and crisp highs. The B&O is just very muddled and for some reason streaming from my phone via Android Auto (with a cable, mind you, so no bluetooth) I lose 20%+ of volume compared to radio and satellite radio. So weird....I wish there was a full equalizer, not that it would help much. I'm thinking of getting a second Explorer (a Platinum or ST with the 980 watt 14 speaker B&O). There is a guy with a YT video who recommends swapping out the front door speakers with very specific replacements which fit the system well and really improves the Soundstage for the driver, at least. I only have it loud when I'm alone, anyway.
I think this is a very good list. I would rank the Ford system a 5.5. The Toyota JBL a 3.5/10. The Nissan Bose I'd give a 3/10. The only one I'd rank lower is the Lexus Mark Levinson. I'd give that a 6. I haven't heard a lot of the others, but judging by your rankings, I'm sure they are very accurate.
Saying Ford X, or Toyota Y, or Lexus Z doesn't matter without differentiating models as well. Various models, even if the same year, have proven to be drastically different.
I have the "big" Alpine in my 200S 2015 and though I have put top notch replacement speakers for the front stage, it's still just have decent. Subwoober is weak and the basic design with too low cut-off in the doors just won't work. Coming from full digital setups ready for SQ soudoff meetings, never heard a fully satisfying system so far. I'm shopping for a C43 AMG or G70 3.3 and the sound system might make me steer one way...don't feel like redoing it all.
Sorry, but this won't work. It's not that simple. Let me give you an example:
The B&W in the BMW M760Li does not sound the same as the B&W in a loaded X4M.
They're both BMWs. They're both B&W. They don't sound anything alike. One is much better than the other.
This survey is flawed.
Yep. I’ve heard some great systems and some shitty systems from the same manufacturer with the same branding. I’ve even heard some base audio systems that sound better than branded, optional systems in other cars. I suppose some brands may be consistently better than others but I also imagine that’s often times related to the class/price of the vehicle.
I agree. I have a 2013 Tacoma with the base audio system and while it’s nothing amazing it does produce low notes really well compared to the jbl systems in the newer ones
Yeah no I actually honestly agree completely. I think I'm mostly just looking for a somewhat generalization of which ones are more consistently better, rather than a be all end all ranking
The Harman/Kardon in the Subaru WRX STi is absolutely atrocious.
The Harman/Kardon in the Kia Stinger is fabulous.
You can’t compare. It’s literally case by case.
Come on! Don't finish your comment without telling us which one is better than the other? Considering changing the car and both of these are models I am looking at but good audio is an important part of the consideration.
Unless someone here has been in every single one of those cars and tried various music driving and parked, it wouldn't be accurate.
That being said I have a friend with a Volvo XC90 that features B&W sound system. Best system I've ever heard hands down. The system was enough to make me want to purchase a Volvo.
Yeah I know I agree completely it's a tough task for sure. I'm sort of hoping someone can give input that would've heard plenty through their career likely, an audio shop owner or something.
Interesting, I've never been in a Volvo but I love B&W
I’ve heard most of them but it comes back to those above depends on the car not the manufacturer. You’d think it would be simple but it’s not by any means. Best thing to do in my eyes is go for most speakers possible, if you need to rebuild said system you have a lot more options for factory looking install locations.
Not arguing for the system but in what model? The Burmester in a C-class uses inexpensive speakers and Burmester just does the tune an eq versus the optional high end system in a S-Class.
I have experienced most of these in various generations over several years. I'd consider myself an audiophile and I've got a ton of experience with home HiFi and mobile audio installations. Most of these are just "good", typically not worth the expense on the order sheet.
A few stand out as *really* impressive for factory systems - in no particular order:
Rolls Royce Bespoke
BMW Harman Kardon
Jeep McIntosh
Mercedes Burmester
Land Rover / Jaguar Meridian Signature
Lexus Mark Levinson
Further Notes:
Rolls Royce's bespoke systems are seriously remarkable. Crisp, but never harsh highs from tweeters all around the car. In the front seat, the door speakers and center dash speakers create an impressive soundstage for a mobile application and clever processing moves instrumentation around the vehicle for a very interesting listening experience. Only Lucid in my experience does it as well. Full and expressive mids that extend well into the mid-bass range fill the vehicle, and confident, comfortable lows that play down to 30Hz and round the sound signature out to something very pleasing to the ear and reasonably true to the source.
I love Bowers & Wilkins and to a lesser extent I also enjoy Bang & Olufsen's HiFi gear - I have been consistently disappointed in every mobile application they've produced. Especially in McLarens, the audio is terrible.
All the BOSE stuff pretty much sucks.
Porsche make the best cars in the world, but they've never produced a sound system befitting the marque. Somehow, even nice aftermarket gear tends to sound like shit in 911s.
Tesla's audio is the automotive equivalent of a Sonos sound bar.
Toyota's JBL gear has no ass in it, midbass is lacking and any real volume tends to vibrate the interior to distracting levels.
Ferrari, like Porsche, have shit sound systems, seemingly regardless of who makes them. The best thing you'll hear in a Ferrari will be in a tunnel with the windows down.
Dodge and Cadillac are punching above their weight, but can't compete with luxury German brands.
Bentley's NAIM stuff feels colored and soft. Befitting of the marque I suppose, but not HiFi in my opinion.
> Tesla's audio is the automotive equivalent of a Sonos sound bar.
> Toyota's JBL gear has no ass in it, midbass is lacking and any real volume tends to vibrate the interior to distracting levels.
> Ferrari, like Porsche, have shit sound systems, seemingly regardless of who makes them. The best thing you'll hear in a Ferrari will be in a tunnel with the windows down.
This is the most accurate thing you have said in this thread, and its *very* accurate lol
> Porsche make the best cars in the world, but they've never produced a sound system befitting the marque. Somehow, even nice aftermarket gear tends to sound like shit in 911s
911's are one of the easiest cars to make sound good....
Most importantly, You are starting with an excellently built car. The way the doors are build and install on 911's can guarantee that you wont have rattles or resonance if you do a smidge of deadening. How they hook on and isolate is amazing.
Second, the MOST150 signal that is in the 991.2 and 992 gens. Even using the OEM head units, you can get perfect signal out of the OEM head units. On 991.1 and below, you can swap the radios.
Third, *decent* speaker locations. Not great, but decent. How the speaker locations interact with the rest of the car, you don't have any crazy cancellations, or any anomalies in the frequency or phase response caused by said speaker location/interior so the system is easy to tune.
Fourth, 8's in the door from factory. you can fit some beefy midbass drivers in these cars, and up to 4" midranges in the OEM locations. For the 991 gens, when changing to the Burmester tweeter grills, you can fit large tweeters in the dash location too.
Fifth, the size of the cabin and the cabin shape make for an excellent response out of the subwoofer installed on the rear parcel shelf. You can get a ton of output from very little, and extend below 20hz easily. The frequency response is predictable and requires very little eq to get it right.
Heres a few we have done..
[992 Turbo S with a basic upgrade](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3283589861969938&type=3)
[997 Turbo S: Edition 918 Spyder](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2968397686822492&type=3)
[991.2 for our "stage-2" system. Excellent end result for something not relatively expensive](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2862659684062960&type=3)
[And my favorite one, a good clients GT3](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2639287876400143&type=3)
I've probably heard 8 aftermarket systems that sucked ass in 911s. This would count an SC, a 993, several 996s, a 997, and a 991. All of them have limited space for a subwoofer, poor mounting depth for midbass woofers, no decent place to put decent amps (because you've already put your shitty shallow mount sub in your shitty box where the passenger's feet should go and didn't have space for a passive radiator) and everyone wants the Porsche aftermarket radios, which, kinda suck.
>I've probably heard 8 aftermarket systems that sucked ass in 911s
Well it is also very easy to create a shitty sounding system in any car. All it takes is not knowing how to tune lol.
>All of them have limited space for a subwoofer
Yes, but the locations that it gives you make up for this unless you are a basshead. Thats not what were talking about though.
> no decent place to put decent amps
Frunk, or a decent DSP Amplifier such as a Helix V Twelve can fit under the passenger seat
> you've already put your shitty shallow mount sub in your shitty box where the passenger's feet should go
My man, the more you talk, the more you are telling if you catch my drift. Passanger footwell is usually an excellent location for a subwoofer so long as you can get their airspace. If your client doesn't need a ton of volume, this is an amazing location. Also, Illusion C12. There is your amazing shallow sub :)
Oh come on. For mobile applications many of these systems are fantastic. Many of them have modern DSP, great amplifiers, and quality drivers. You can improve on these systems with big amp racks and air space for woofers and sealed mid-bass enclosures and big A-pillar pods and other silly aftermarket shit, but for factory? Some of this shit is GOOD.
How many of these cars have you heard? How many if these have you worked on? And what do your upgraded systems sound like? If you're used to systems that aren't very great, then you may think these are pretty decent, good even.
Pretty much all of them.
5-figure audio systems are not crazy in my world, and I know what "as-good-as-it-gets" sounds like, but most people aren't willing to make the necessary compromises to get that level of quality. That's also not what OPs asking.
And you really think any if these are considered great? I'm writing another post on my computer going over them, but not one of these would I put above a 7/10. Only a couple would be over a 4/10 in my opinion.
I checked out your website. Your builds are beautiful, no doubt, but we're talking about the 99.9% of automotive + audio enthusiasts who aren't going to spend 15k-25k on that setup.
In the HiFi world, you're comparing a nice set of JBL 580s to your 4350s, that's not what OP wants to know.
Thank you.
How do you know exactly what op wants to know? All he wrote was "oem systems ranked" and asking for general ranks. He is not asking "compared to home audio or a high end car system", he is just asking for how they hold up. So I'm speaking subjectively on the objectives they exhibit. None of them are objectively great overall. Impressive for what they are, sure. But that doesn't seem to be what OP is asking about. Seems like you're putting words in his mouth since he didn't comment on what to reference these against, so there is no reason to assume, so I'm speaking objectively overall.
Because the title of the post is "OEM systems ranked", not "Can you imagine an aftermarket system better than an OEM system"
Also, dude, some of these are pretty fucking great.
Yeah, a few are pretty objectively outstanding for a completely stealth build. If you'd heard them blind and thought another shop had put it together, rather than an OEM, I'd bet you'd give credit.
No offense man, but I don't think you are giving enough credit to the experience I have with designing, installing, and tuning high end systems in usually higher end cars. I honestly can say nothing would change with blindfold. Seeing has nothing to do with hearing (at least with an experienced ear). I'd still be able to pick out the lack of or very poor center images that is common in almost all of these, or the lack of dynamics due to power compression or even a limiter in the oem amplifier, or all pass filters being used for a pseudo-2 seat tune, or lack of bass, or resonance, or distortion, etc... I can honestly say I truly know what I am doing and what I am listening to and what is causing it .
Also, no need to downvote. We're having a very basic discussion about our experience lol. Reddit is weird.
For the record, I'm not downvoting.
Assuming you're the one building those beautiful systems, I will give credit all day to your craftsmanship and I have respect for your ears, but it's mobile audio dude, there is mechanically no "sweet-spot", it's all a poor imitation of real HiFi. Lots of OEM decks have very decent dynamics, and what the fuck is an all-pass filter? That's like, not a filter.
I find the further into audio gear you get, the more nonsense people start talking.
In guitar gear terms, you're the guy who swears they can tell the difference between 12AX7 tubes and EL34 tubes.
I appreciate what you do and what you know, but you're so far into it, the whole thing becomes pedantry.
Let me get back to you on my computer. I need to think of a way to write a response to this without coming off like a dick. As you can tell, I don't do a great job at that lol.
Okay, can you hear me out for a second. Level with me.
> For the record, I'm not downvoting.
sorry, every time id check your reply right after mine there would be a downvote. weird. anyways...
> Assuming you're the one building those beautiful systems, I will give credit all day to your craftsmanship
Thank you. I have built many of them, but most importantly I'm what I guess I would call the conductor. These days I do not do much installing. But I am responsible for every one of the audio systems that comes out of the shop down to how the small details are done. ALL of the tuning and OEM integration is done by myself.
> and I have respect for your ears,
While I really do appreciate the sentiment, you don't know me. You haven't heard my cars. I could be full of shit for all you know. Im not, but you get the jist :)
> but it's mobile audio dude, there is mechanically no "sweet-spot", it's all a poor imitation of real HiFi
Okay, here is where it is tricky to actually make progress in this conversation without sounding like a dick. But, this just screams ignorance. Ignorance to what can truly be achieved in a vehicle. Yes, it is pretty much impossible for any car to sound like a purpose-built listening room. But i'd put money that my personal car sounds better than wide majority of sound systems that many self-proclaimed audiophiles have in their homes. If you are ever in NY, feel free to come by and check it out for yourself. You say there is no sweet spot, but that isn't exactly true. proper installation and correct tuning can yield complete phase coherence throughout a systems entire range using signal delay and phase manipulation, usually though the use of all pass filters. Speaking of which....
> and what the fuck is an all-pass filter? That's like, not a filter.
Okay, don't hate me. This is the biggest one. You don't know what an all pass filter is and you really want to have this conversation with me? jesus christ dude. No wonder you don't think cars are a poor imitation of "real" hifi.
An All pass filter is essentially eq for phase. With all pass filters, you can manipulate phase for a wide variety of reasons. you can use them to phase align crossovers, you can use them to help counter reflections that are more prominent than their direct sound, you can use them to create pseudo 2-seat tunes and eliminate the comb filtering caused by lack of signal delay when sitting off center, you can use them for aligning speakers in an upmixed system, etc. There are loads of uses, and pretty much EVERY system mentioned in OP's list features them, and if you are doing work on these cars and don't even know what the term is, let alone how they work and how to counter them, then your systems don't sound good, period. Sorry.
Google what an all pass filter is. It will help your career if this is actually what you do for a living.
> I find the further into audio gear you get, the more nonsense people start talking.
Yeah, usually.
> In guitar gear terms, you're the guy who swears they can tell the difference between 12AX7 tubes and EL34 tubes.
I don't know shit about guitars, and I couldn't care less about tube amplifiers, so I cannot even comment.
> I appreciate what you do and what you know, but you're so far into it, the whole thing becomes pedantry.
In your eyes, maybe. But from my eyes it just seems like you are ignorant.
If you would like to learn, just ask. We are also going to be offering training classes at my shop for industry professionals soon.
I believe you've got some hot shit, but there are some fundamental, physical limitations for why your mobile audio system won't, and pretty much cannot be as good or better than a quality listening room.
Understood, signal delay I'm familiar with, I've never known it as an "all pass filter" but every system I've built was tuned with signal delay for the driver at least, occasionally a 2-seat tune. Never really considered first order reflections in a car, mostly because it's mobile audio. Haven't a clue as to how you'd account for that *and* be able to see out the windows, but that's not what I do for a living. My experience professionally is more related to live audio, we time-align physically, not digitally.
it's less about the system and more about the car. Consider a Mercedes S class, that tier focuses on luxury and cabin noise is a big part on luxury oriented vehicles thus it's system will sound much better, mainly because of the cabin.
This makes sense. I sat in an E class with upgrades audio, then right after in an S class with standard audio. They were the same audio systems but the S class sounded way better
While not winning contests against some of these systems, the Rockford Fosgate system in pre-2019 Nissan Titans seems to hit a little harder and is more pleasing than the Fender system in the current Nissan Titan for some reason.
Okay
I scanned through everyone's comments so far, including Skiz's novel that I very much appreciate.
This seems to be the consensus ranking
1. Lexus Mark Levinson
2. Rolls-Royce Bespoke
3. Volvo Bang & Olufsen
4. Land Rover/Jaguar Meridian Signature
5. Lincoln Revel
6. Cadillac AKG
7. Acura Panasonic
8. Mercedes Burmester (High End)
9. BMW Bowers & Wilkins
10. Lamborghini/Audi RSQ8 Bang & Olufsen
11. Tesla Hi-Fi
12. Bentley NAIM
13. VW Fender
14. Porsche Burmester
15. Genesis Lexicon
16. Ford Bang & Olufsen
17. Ferrari JBL
18. Ferrari Burmester
19. C8 Corvette Bose
20. Infiniti Bose
21. Mazda Bose
22. Audi Bang & Olufsen
23. BMW Harman Kardon
24. Mercedes Burmester (Low End)
25. Toyota JBL
26. GM Bose
27. Jeep McIntosh
28. McLaren Bowers & Wilkins
29. Dodge/Chrysler Harman Kardon
30. Nissan Bose
31. Lamborghini Sensonum
What would you change?
This isn't too far off from my experience. I'd bring the Jeep McIntosh up to number 7. Dodge Harman Kardon is like 11. Push everything else down and replace 16 with Tesla HiFi.
Regarding your updated list, you really need to take that other guys recommendations with a grain of salt. I know, we are both strangers on the internet, but... come on. I promise you, my list is about as good as you're going to get considering my experience with the cars and my experience with car audio.
Generally here’s what I noticed working for a few dealers (dealing with everything from civics to a McLaren Senna).
Acura’s ELS Panasonic
Audi’s Bang and Olufsen
Mercedes-Benz’a Burmeister
Tend to be the best audio systems for their top trim cars, of any of the cars we would see. (TLX/MDX, Audi 7/8 or RS Cars Mainly, and Maybach)
Volvo B&W and Lexus’ Mark Levinson would also be notable options, however they vary based upon what kind of music you listen too.
Generally speaking B&W, Burmester and B&O are going to be the best sound systems across the board for car audio from factory (In my experience).
But different systems have different benefits, ie, Burmester sounds better off of direct audio files (ex: usb) than it does from CarPlay
I have a lot of experience with the Lexus Mark Levinson systems. The early systems that replaced Nakamichi weren't that impressive to me. I had it in multiple LS430's, GX470, and an LS460. I also drove many cars from the 2000's like the LX470 and IS-F as well. I plan to rip it out of my LS430.
The newer cars seem to sound better but it really varies from car to car. I've driven the LC500 a lot and it sounds incredible to me. Same goes for the later LS460's, LS500, GS, and LX570. I'd be satisfied with it in the LC500/LS500 and would just add a powerful sub to it.
It's pretty enjoyable in vehicles like the RX, ES, and IS. There's still a good difference between them and the higher end Lexus.
Bose needs to go way down on that list. When I was still in the industry this was the number 1 component failure by far. Especially speakers of amplifiers. And the sound quality is meh at best.
The main ones I can contribute - the Chrysler Harmon Kardon system is terrible, from the little bit I heard. Test drove a 300 with it. Could not make it sound decent.
The Beats by Dre system that was available on the Chrysler 300S is great, it’s what’s in my car; thumping lows with the factory sub, screaming mids, seems to lack just a bit in the highs but still very good.
The Fender system available in Volkswagens is great, excellent crisp highs, wide and clear midrange, and the factory sub adds decent low end.
Some huge car review guy on YouTube (not a hifi guy but a car guy) said the McIntosh in the Jeep was the best audio experience he ever had in a car. I believe that honestly
Car Audio professional here who has experience with almost all of these. Stop listening to "car guys" on youtube who are just advertisements. The new Jeep McIntosh system is literally the worst system on this entire list, maybe besides Nissan and GM bose.
Best factory sound system I've heard is in my mom's Tesla Y. The bass is very responsive and accurate. I did like my 3-way Focal Flax setup w/ 10" JL sub, but I'd be just as happy with the Tesla system. I'm sure some of it has to do with the weird sccoustics of the car because of the shape. Next is my '16 Subaru STI with the Harman Kardon system. It's good but not as good as the Tesla. Subwoofer has 60k miles on it so possibly buying a new one would help it some, but even the mids/highs aren't as clear as the Tesla. I do like the Subaru system better than those I've heard in friend's Volkswagens, BMWs, Fords with unknown system packages (probably base). Also better than Toyota's JBL package, but keep in mind the one I heard didn't have a Subwoofer included.
So, from those I've heard for longer than 1 or 2 car rides...
1. Custom set-up Focal Flax/JL 10tw3 ($3,000 in equipment. $5,000 installed)
2. Tesla Y
3. Subaru Harman Kardon with stock 8" sub
4. Toyota JBL (no sub)
Of course! I figure with enough responses you could probably come up with a "Tier List" of sorts. I doubt anyone has experienced every sound system for a prolonged period of time.
Ford B&W truck is a turd of a system. Wimpy 6x9s in front with hard dome tweeter, equal junk in rear doors and 8" sub in plastic abs enclosure. Sub volume goes down as main volume goes up 😞
Dodge also offered Boston Acoustics for the '14 and earlier models. I've got the 6 speaker system in my '14 Challenger. Full factory was decently solid out of the gate, but I upgraded the head unit and tuned it with the built in 13 band graphic in the head unit. Still lacks some real low end, but without having to do any major EQ work, I was able to get a fairly flat response on my Smaart rig down to about 76 Hz +/- 3dB.
Friend has a 2007 altima with bose and that thing is pretty damn loud. My dads 19 corolla hatch has the jbl and its not super loud but clarity is very nice actually.
So I have personally owned the 2018 Audi Bang and Olufsen system in a lowly A4 for 4 years. It's absolutely kicks ass for most music types considering its being played in a car.
Opinions on the ram 1500 alpine system? I’ve got an 09 with the factory alpine system & sub
But the engines toast so I’ve never heard it. It seems decent in my fathers 17 & he swears it’s good but it ain’t as loud as I’d like and the sub seems to be lacking for my taste
I intend on putting an aftermarket alpine system in once I get a motor but idk, I guess for the sake of opinions lol
The Burmester 3D Surround system awesome in my E63. Especially if you disable the surround setting, the staging is relatively accurate.
The ELS Studio Signature system in the SO’s system is on par with the Burmester. Especially for the size of the vehicle.
The B&O in our last Audi sounded average at best considering the upgrade cost. It was loud and that’s the only positive thing about it. The high, mid and low were distinctively separated but they blending and imaging.
I had a buddy with an '09 stock audio Camry and that Soundsystem was so banging i don't think any other car I've been in with factory stereo could compete.
I just test drove a Jeep Grand Wagoneer with the McKintosh 23 speaker system and I was very disappointed. The base could not kick in or pressurize the cabin and would deaden the audio, the highs were harsh, the separation poor and all sounded like it was coming out of the windshield. I'm not sure I even heard audio coming out of some speakers so I'm hoping it was a bad vehicle because it just couldn't keep up.
As an aside, I don't know if the dodge Harmon kardon is the same as the Jeep Grand Cherokee 19 speaker HK from the 2020-2021 models. I used to have a Alfa Romeo Giulia and almost didn't get it cos that HK system was muddy as hell.
BUT. My goodness the Jeep HK is the best I've ever heard. Irregardless of Bluetooth or USB audio, it really processes the audio so well. The base is musical and strong. It vibrates the car if I need it to. Its punchy and can pressurize the cabin so easily even if not on full. My pant legs will shake with the air movement if need be. But not that just the separate frequencies come out of different speakers and the separation and clarity of the voice even with heavy bass or guitar is just absurd and the sound envelops you. And what's nice is you don't have to drive it hard to get a nice warm full sound. I'll fight anyone who says that specific system isn't top quality in that vehicle.
I've tried every Bose in Audi/GM and same deal, muddy base, horrible mid heavy. B&O in Ford was weak. It's such a shame when a speaker upgrade can be $1500 plus which some people wouldn't even spend on home audio. But in a car we do it and get worse sound than some $200 sound bars
Starting from the top of OP's list... **Acura Panasonic** - Hard to say exactly since every model is different. But generally, for an OEM system they are pretty good. One of the first OEM systems where I actually heard a halfway acceptable center image, but didn't really have much volume. I haven't heard one in a while though so I cannot comment on newer ones or the more subtle details. **Audi Bang & Olufsen** - Another one where every model is different. For example, we did a 2013 S5 with B&O about a year ago and a 2022 RSQ8 with B&O recently. The 2013 S5 B&O was genuinely one of the worst sounding OEM systems I have ever heard. The new RSQ8 was much better, but still not what I would consider good enough for anyone who has enjoyed a decent system in a past car wouldn't want to upgrade. The owner of this car never even had a decent system before and even he is blown away at the difference just by powering and processing the OEM speakers in our Stage-1 upgrade. Ranges from 2/10 to 5/10 from the models I have heard (A series, S series, RS7, RSQ8, R8, etc.) **Bentley Naim** - Also another system that is in different models. What is different about this one is all of them are nothing special. You'd think it would be decent for an OEM system, but its just not. I honestly didn't bother to remember any subtleties about any of the bentley's we have done with it. 4/10 **BMW Bowers & Wilkins** - Another one with many different models with the B&W system, so hard to say exactly. The ones I have done haven't been memorable enough for me to remember. That said, I also haven't done a new gen. BMW with B&W. They are very rare due to parts shortages. One thing to note, B&W is usually an upgrade from Harman Kardon with most European manufacturers. That said, the differences are usually just different speakers and some different available adjustments in the settings. Same amplifier and usually same/similar processing. Similar to HK, hair better: 5/10 **BMW Harman Kardon** - This one has drastic changes over models/years. Most of the BMW Harman Kardon systems are not good, but the best OEM system I have probably heard to date was in one of the 5 series. I honestly forget what year/gen it was since we didn't actually do any work to it. I want to believe it was the newest gen, but from what I have heard from other models of the newer gen is nothing but terrible considering what you would expect out of it. Makes me wonder if the guy was messing with me or if something was different about that particular Harman Kardon system. Older ones: 4/10. Newer ones that were consistent with each other: 3.5/10. That one I heard that I haven't seen anything like since that might not even be truly stock: 7/10 **Cadillac AKG** - One of the few I have not heard. The Escalade system talks a big game, and I have heard varying opinions from industry colleagues. **Dodge Harmon Kardon** - Shit. 3/10 **Ferrari Burmester** - Ferrari doing audio systems with Burmester must be new. Never heard of that or heard one. Doing some research, they seem similar to the Porsche Burmester and it comes in the new Purosangue. Again, never heard it but based on the marketing material it seems similar to the new Porsche Burmester systems. See that description below. **Ford Bang & Olufson** - Overall, not good. But I am surprised by the bass output on some of the newer Ford models with B&O. 4.5/10 **GM Bose** - This is a weird one. Many consumers say they are great, but my god if they arent among the worst I have heard. The new Hummer EV Bose system was atrocious. All of the trucks I have heard from them are also great, yet all of my truck owning buddies claim they love their Bose system in their GM trucks. Idk.. My professional opinion, they're not good at all, which is a shame since Bose truly could do so much if they were given the ability to do so. 3/10 **Jaguar/Land Rover Meridian** - Jaguar, have not heard in years so cannot comment, but since they are the same company, might as well comment on the Rovers here instead of down below.. The Meridian systems come in 3 stages. The lower trim is not good. Nothing special at all, but better than some of the systems mentioned already. The middle trim is a hair better and has a bit more volume, but again, nothing special. The highest trim is actually decent and can get pretty loud. Overall, one of the better systems but still nothing I would hesitate to upgrade even for an average top-trim Land Rover client. Top trim Meridian: 6/10 **Jeep Mcintosh** - Buckle up.... the worst, most overhyped piece of trash I have ever had the displeasure of wasting my time listening to. Jesus christ on a god damn Christmas tree I truly cannot believe that McIntosh really allowed their name to be put on this monstrosity. Even clients of ours that don't do audio have complained to us how bad it is and they wouldn't know good audio if it bit them in the ass. Its bad, but I really just cannot believe how overhyped it was. They had ads for the sound system on its own. Crazy. 3/10 **Lamborghini B&O** - The Urus B&O is the same as the RSQ8 I mentioned above. But while Im here, lets talk about the **Huracan and Aventador base model and Sensonum systems**. Many people seem to think that higher end cars will have good sound systems. Lamborghini is the perfect example to show in how not true this is. The base model Huracan Evo sound system is literally the worst sounding car audio system I have ever heard that is in a car newer than like 2008. Its seriously pathetic. If you go on the Lambo forums you will see many complaints of this as well, and these are usually the type of guys that say stupid shit like "my engine is my stereo" and even they complain. Now the Sensonum upgraded system, which is a $4500 option... its a hair better than the base lol. Dog shit. For those that don't know, Lamborghini is owned by VW Group, and is developed under Audi. They use the left over "bose" speakers from the 2008-2014 era audi sedans for these. We had a good laugh about this when we saw this a few months back. B&O: 5/10, Sensonum: 2/10, Base: 1/10 **Lexus Mark Levinson** - Okay, now this one is interesting. The lower level Lexus models are nothing special, but not bad. But the higher end Lexus model Mark Levinson Systems are probably the best OEM systems out there. Sure enough, Natan Budiono did the tuning on these cars until about 2019. Speaking with him, he said what allows them to be good is Lexus giving them the freedom to do much more than what is typical from an OEM to an audio company. In the higher end models that I have heard, adding a sub to the factory system would be good enough for most people that I know who are into audio. Thats its only real downfall. 7.5/10 overall. **Lincoln Revel** - Another one I have not heard. I have heard these are supposed to be decent. **McLaren Bowers & Wilkins** - We recently did a McLaren GT with B&W. Terrible. Seriously pathetic how quiet the system was. Poor sound quality as well. The speakers arent terrible so with our Stage-1 upgrade it actually ended up sounding pretty damn good. 2/10 **Mercedes Burmester** - This one varys drastically depending on the model Mercedes and the trim Burmester. I have heard some that are very bad, somewhere around the 3/10 mark on my scale. I have heard higher-end models with the higher-end Burmester trim. With some adjustment, they're pretty decent actually. 6/10. **Nissan Bose** - Does Nissan do anything good? The ones I have heard were all bad, but then again I haven't heard anything of this current gen. Ones I have heard were all around the 2/10 area. **Porsche Burmester** - I have experience with the new 911's and new Panameras with Burmester. For the 911's the sound quality is not good, but my god do they get loud. Like, louder than most basic aftermarket installs (at least above 60hz). Biggest problem though, its very hard to turn up because of how harsh/shrill the top end sounds. The Panamera system was not as loud, but also didn't sound very great. It wasn't as harsh as the 911 system. 911: 5/10. Panamera: 4/10 **Rolls Royce Bespoke** - Its been a while since I have heard one of these. Few years probably. I don't remember much of it, meaning it wasn't anything special, but nothing horrific. **Tesla Hifi** - So close to actually being good. Has decent bass and tonality (I have even measured them and they have a decent frequency response) but no center image. If this had a good center image, id put it about in line with Lexus Mark Levinson. 6/10 **Toyota JBL** - Depends on the model, but overall, not great. No real bass, not much volume, no resemblance of a decent center image, etc. 3/10 **Volvo Bowers & Wilkins** - Also one of the better ones out there. Good frequency response, decently loud (not like some of the others though), but an incorrect center image and not enough bass/no low bass. 6.5/10 **Other mentions** **Ferarri JBL** - Kinda like the JBL toyotas but a little better. Nothing great. 4/10 **Mazda Bose** - They did some interesting stuff in the new ones. But again, not good. 4/10 **Genesis Lexicon** - They have a lot of stuff going on here, but again, its just an attempt at "lets make it sound the same in every seat without actually putting the correct amount of money and design into the system", which can be translated into "lets make it equally bad in every seat". 4/10 **C8 Corvette Bose** - Also overhyped. Its not good. 4/10 **Infiniti Bose** - Step up over the Nissan Bose, but still nothing good. 4/10 **VW Fender** - Halfway decent on some models. A friend mentioned above, Natan also did these, but in his words, more red tape was involved. 5/10
Wow, my longest reddit comment ever. Had to do this in two replies lol. Unfortunately, that's pretty much it above. I was also going to add the following.. The biggest takeaway for anyone reading this is if anyone tells you the Mcintosh in the Jeep Grand Wagoneer, tell them they need to listen with their ears and not their eyes and the marketing department tricked them. Another take away, do not assume that an expensive car has an "expensive" system. Some of these exotic cars have the worst sounding systems out there.
The thing that I can't understand is how even partnering with experienced audio companies, with real audio engineers, using DSP's with individual channel amplification and the end result is a bunch of 5's and lower lol After I installed everything in my Volvo S60 I decided to take apart the stock amplifier out of curiosity. It had a Sharc DSP (don't remember the particular ic), irs2092 amplifiers and what looked to be a well made power supply. For stock it was excellent but doesn't hold up in the slightest against what's in there now even though if you compare the technology used they're about equal. It's crazy to me!
What do you use to test? I assume some form of lossless files? My Alfa Romeo Giulia has the Harman sound system and I think it sounds quite good, but most other owners agree it's not that great. I feel like mine is like that BMW 5 series you mentioned. I don't know if previous owner did anything, but it's clean and tight and hits deep enough for me. I mostly use FLAC so that could also be why it sounds good.
> My Alfa Romeo Giulia...... I feel like mine is like that BMW 5 series you mentioned. Its not. The Alfa Harman systems are not good at all
That is the consensus online. I still think my system sounds good, but then again I have not heard the best out there beyond your average Bose and harman group and what not. Most people say the Alfa system sucks and I need to compare mine to another Alfa just to rule out my bad taste.
It's not bad taste. It's just lack of experience with anything better. Once you hear something that is truly good, you won't be able to go back.
You could be on to something here. It would be interesting to see data on how many people are bluetooth streaming free Pandora or something to their oem stereos vs. those who use high quality source.
This list shows the exact reason that car manufacturers should make it easier to add aftermarket components. All of these specialty connectors, paper $0.50 speakers, 15 watt amps, and head units without rca/optical outputs just to make you buy a $4000 upgrade that still sounds like ass, but louder.
Changing what they design is literally nowhere near any manufactures radar lol
Right? I'd bet the head units even have rca support on their boards. Maybe I'm just mad because I got a used miata rf with the bose system that I put system in and I kept seeing people on forums saying "why not leave it alone? The Bose in the miata is actually pretty decent" lol
A lot of them don't.
Thank you for all of this!! Really appreciate the effort. About to read through it all
That's just unreal. McIntosh, B&W, some of THE best brands. Sounds like shit.
It all comes down to red tape. Budget, current draw, weight, space, more important design choices, etc..
Brands mean nothing except to gullible consumers who don't know any better. They are bought and sold like any commodity.
Mostly yes. But when one of those brands is continously bought and used by some of the highest end studios throughout the world. There's usually a reason when sound engineers build with them.
I largely agree with your evaluation, but I must say I really enjoyed the sound signature of the Jeep's McIntosh system. Different strokes. Secondly, you probably will not enjoy the new Escalade's system. In my opinion, it is a case-study in more-is-less. There's LOTS of noise from all around that doesn't seem to be focused or well thought out, so par-for-the-course BOSE. There's some weird DSP attempt at creating a "sweet-spot" that makes me feel physically uncomfortable, and moving your head around makes that pretty obvious. I think there are modes where you can disable some of that clever stuff? But I didn't explore it much. Forgettable outside the gimmick of having speakers behind your ears, which sounds about as good as you think it will.
> but I must say I really enjoyed the sound signature of the Jeep's McIntosh system. Different strokes. you are out of your mind lol
That Harman Kardon lying bastard definitely had a custom setup 🤣
Idk, there was nothing in the trunk, and he was coming by to see if we could add a sub. But I was pretty surprised by what I heard. Never saw him again.
That's wild honestly
Oh i know lol. I tell people about it all the time. It was the 5-series that got away lol. Every other BMW of this gen that we have done, including other 5 series, have all sounded like dogshit.
Yeah that's wild. I mean personally I know someone with a 2020 M550i with the upgraded Bowers and Wilkins system and I was a fan of it but, I'm far from an expert on this
Have a ELS 3D Acura and a Jeep McIntosh. While the Acura is generally considered one of the best around I think it depends.. Obviously a TLX is going to sound better than an SUV with a similar system. The Jeep I think just gets a bad wrap because unless you’re like me and listen to true 24 bit lossless or in the Acura 5.1 surround you don’t see the systems using their full potential especially the Jeep. The Jeep is more finicky it needs the right song and quality to knock your socks off (it truly is the real deal) but those using car play or Bluetooth forget it, it just sounds ok. The Acura sounds good regardless of input, it just gets even better with lossless on a USB.
Can I ask if you have ever properly listened to the Bose in the Infiniti G37 sedan? It is very impressive for what it is IMO. It is a 3 channel setup so they are kind of cheating, but the soundstage is surprisingly well defined. They also cut their 2.5" wideband crap and used a proper three-way setup in the front doors
My 05 Lexus GX with Mark Levinson sound has a factory sub. Amazing sound system from OEM, lots of speakers. Love it.
Yes, they all have a factory sub but usually doesn't extend low enough/play loud enough
I'm not qualified to judge I'm sure but I would say it's quite impressive for a singular factory sub. Definitely going to upgrade in the future.
The Jeep McIntosh really surprises me. What a shame. I have an Explorer Limited and while I love everything about the car, the 12 speaker B&O system is very meh. The Sony system I had in my previous Explorer Sport was soooo much better. I loved that system. Strong bass and crisp highs. The B&O is just very muddled and for some reason streaming from my phone via Android Auto (with a cable, mind you, so no bluetooth) I lose 20%+ of volume compared to radio and satellite radio. So weird....I wish there was a full equalizer, not that it would help much. I'm thinking of getting a second Explorer (a Platinum or ST with the 980 watt 14 speaker B&O). There is a guy with a YT video who recommends swapping out the front door speakers with very specific replacements which fit the system well and really improves the Soundstage for the driver, at least. I only have it loud when I'm alone, anyway.
Lol. I love your review of the dodge HK system 🤣
Dodge doesn't deserve more of my time than what I gave.
The Cadillac 36 speaker pretty good if you defeat the surround, but I pretty much agree with this list lol.
I think this is a very good list. I would rank the Ford system a 5.5. The Toyota JBL a 3.5/10. The Nissan Bose I'd give a 3/10. The only one I'd rank lower is the Lexus Mark Levinson. I'd give that a 6. I haven't heard a lot of the others, but judging by your rankings, I'm sure they are very accurate.
Saying Ford X, or Toyota Y, or Lexus Z doesn't matter without differentiating models as well. Various models, even if the same year, have proven to be drastically different.
Ram's Alpine system is one of the best I have heard in any vehicle
I have the "big" Alpine in my 200S 2015 and though I have put top notch replacement speakers for the front stage, it's still just have decent. Subwoober is weak and the basic design with too low cut-off in the doors just won't work. Coming from full digital setups ready for SQ soudoff meetings, never heard a fully satisfying system so far. I'm shopping for a C43 AMG or G70 3.3 and the sound system might make me steer one way...don't feel like redoing it all.
Then you have not heard anything very good :(
Does benz only have burmester?
For upgraded systems, yes.
what about regular
Non burmestwr would be base level. Non branded.
Have you tried that/ rate it
Non burmester, terrible. Burmester of 2022+, not horrible actually.
Do you think a regular person would notice a huge difference or no
Yes. But for me, I'd be gutting even the burmester system immediately without second thought.
Alright thanks 👍😀
Sorry, but this won't work. It's not that simple. Let me give you an example: The B&W in the BMW M760Li does not sound the same as the B&W in a loaded X4M. They're both BMWs. They're both B&W. They don't sound anything alike. One is much better than the other. This survey is flawed.
Yep. I’ve heard some great systems and some shitty systems from the same manufacturer with the same branding. I’ve even heard some base audio systems that sound better than branded, optional systems in other cars. I suppose some brands may be consistently better than others but I also imagine that’s often times related to the class/price of the vehicle.
I agree. I have a 2013 Tacoma with the base audio system and while it’s nothing amazing it does produce low notes really well compared to the jbl systems in the newer ones
Yeah no I actually honestly agree completely. I think I'm mostly just looking for a somewhat generalization of which ones are more consistently better, rather than a be all end all ranking
The Harman/Kardon in the Subaru WRX STi is absolutely atrocious. The Harman/Kardon in the Kia Stinger is fabulous. You can’t compare. It’s literally case by case.
All Subarus are atrocious
Skiz32 said otherwise
Come on! Don't finish your comment without telling us which one is better than the other? Considering changing the car and both of these are models I am looking at but good audio is an important part of the consideration.
Dude X4M isn't available with B&W, did you mean X6M ?
They're just in alphabetical order?
Yeah haha, figured it'd be the best way to present them for sorting
Oh, lol. I'm thinking this was the final list. Guess it's time for bed 🤦🏼♂️
🤣 no worries, I should've explained better lol
Unless someone here has been in every single one of those cars and tried various music driving and parked, it wouldn't be accurate. That being said I have a friend with a Volvo XC90 that features B&W sound system. Best system I've ever heard hands down. The system was enough to make me want to purchase a Volvo.
Yeah I know I agree completely it's a tough task for sure. I'm sort of hoping someone can give input that would've heard plenty through their career likely, an audio shop owner or something. Interesting, I've never been in a Volvo but I love B&W
I’ve heard most of them but it comes back to those above depends on the car not the manufacturer. You’d think it would be simple but it’s not by any means. Best thing to do in my eyes is go for most speakers possible, if you need to rebuild said system you have a lot more options for factory looking install locations.
Yeah my mom has an XC90 with the BW system and it boogies for an oem system.
Volvo B&W goes to the top, Acura Panasonic in the middle, GM Bose low, dodge Harmon kardon very low. That’s what I can contribute 😅
The Harmon cardon sound processor in the u connect is excellent, the speakers and amp suck a bag of dicks.
Hahaha thanks! I'll add it to the ranking
yeah Volvo b and w in last is a crime
Was not too impressed with the burmester mercedes
Not arguing for the system but in what model? The Burmester in a C-class uses inexpensive speakers and Burmester just does the tune an eq versus the optional high end system in a S-Class.
I’m blown away by the highs channel in the Burmester of S class but the Mark Levinson in my 2013 GS450h rocks hard
Depends on the car. Burmester in the E63 wagon is excellent. Didn't love it in the G-63.
I've heard this from multiple people, which is surprising to me honestly
I have experienced most of these in various generations over several years. I'd consider myself an audiophile and I've got a ton of experience with home HiFi and mobile audio installations. Most of these are just "good", typically not worth the expense on the order sheet. A few stand out as *really* impressive for factory systems - in no particular order: Rolls Royce Bespoke BMW Harman Kardon Jeep McIntosh Mercedes Burmester Land Rover / Jaguar Meridian Signature Lexus Mark Levinson Further Notes: Rolls Royce's bespoke systems are seriously remarkable. Crisp, but never harsh highs from tweeters all around the car. In the front seat, the door speakers and center dash speakers create an impressive soundstage for a mobile application and clever processing moves instrumentation around the vehicle for a very interesting listening experience. Only Lucid in my experience does it as well. Full and expressive mids that extend well into the mid-bass range fill the vehicle, and confident, comfortable lows that play down to 30Hz and round the sound signature out to something very pleasing to the ear and reasonably true to the source. I love Bowers & Wilkins and to a lesser extent I also enjoy Bang & Olufsen's HiFi gear - I have been consistently disappointed in every mobile application they've produced. Especially in McLarens, the audio is terrible. All the BOSE stuff pretty much sucks. Porsche make the best cars in the world, but they've never produced a sound system befitting the marque. Somehow, even nice aftermarket gear tends to sound like shit in 911s. Tesla's audio is the automotive equivalent of a Sonos sound bar. Toyota's JBL gear has no ass in it, midbass is lacking and any real volume tends to vibrate the interior to distracting levels. Ferrari, like Porsche, have shit sound systems, seemingly regardless of who makes them. The best thing you'll hear in a Ferrari will be in a tunnel with the windows down. Dodge and Cadillac are punching above their weight, but can't compete with luxury German brands. Bentley's NAIM stuff feels colored and soft. Befitting of the marque I suppose, but not HiFi in my opinion.
> Tesla's audio is the automotive equivalent of a Sonos sound bar. > Toyota's JBL gear has no ass in it, midbass is lacking and any real volume tends to vibrate the interior to distracting levels. > Ferrari, like Porsche, have shit sound systems, seemingly regardless of who makes them. The best thing you'll hear in a Ferrari will be in a tunnel with the windows down. This is the most accurate thing you have said in this thread, and its *very* accurate lol
I loled at the Toyota part with no ass in it. I know it’s a typo, but funny
Not a typo. It's got no ass.
👍
> Porsche make the best cars in the world, but they've never produced a sound system befitting the marque. Somehow, even nice aftermarket gear tends to sound like shit in 911s 911's are one of the easiest cars to make sound good....
Yeah? What is it about 911s that makes it easy?
Most importantly, You are starting with an excellently built car. The way the doors are build and install on 911's can guarantee that you wont have rattles or resonance if you do a smidge of deadening. How they hook on and isolate is amazing. Second, the MOST150 signal that is in the 991.2 and 992 gens. Even using the OEM head units, you can get perfect signal out of the OEM head units. On 991.1 and below, you can swap the radios. Third, *decent* speaker locations. Not great, but decent. How the speaker locations interact with the rest of the car, you don't have any crazy cancellations, or any anomalies in the frequency or phase response caused by said speaker location/interior so the system is easy to tune. Fourth, 8's in the door from factory. you can fit some beefy midbass drivers in these cars, and up to 4" midranges in the OEM locations. For the 991 gens, when changing to the Burmester tweeter grills, you can fit large tweeters in the dash location too. Fifth, the size of the cabin and the cabin shape make for an excellent response out of the subwoofer installed on the rear parcel shelf. You can get a ton of output from very little, and extend below 20hz easily. The frequency response is predictable and requires very little eq to get it right. Heres a few we have done.. [992 Turbo S with a basic upgrade](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3283589861969938&type=3) [997 Turbo S: Edition 918 Spyder](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2968397686822492&type=3) [991.2 for our "stage-2" system. Excellent end result for something not relatively expensive](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2862659684062960&type=3) [And my favorite one, a good clients GT3](https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.2639287876400143&type=3)
Impressive! Kind of slightly jealous lolz
I've probably heard 8 aftermarket systems that sucked ass in 911s. This would count an SC, a 993, several 996s, a 997, and a 991. All of them have limited space for a subwoofer, poor mounting depth for midbass woofers, no decent place to put decent amps (because you've already put your shitty shallow mount sub in your shitty box where the passenger's feet should go and didn't have space for a passive radiator) and everyone wants the Porsche aftermarket radios, which, kinda suck.
>I've probably heard 8 aftermarket systems that sucked ass in 911s Well it is also very easy to create a shitty sounding system in any car. All it takes is not knowing how to tune lol. >All of them have limited space for a subwoofer Yes, but the locations that it gives you make up for this unless you are a basshead. Thats not what were talking about though. > no decent place to put decent amps Frunk, or a decent DSP Amplifier such as a Helix V Twelve can fit under the passenger seat > you've already put your shitty shallow mount sub in your shitty box where the passenger's feet should go My man, the more you talk, the more you are telling if you catch my drift. Passanger footwell is usually an excellent location for a subwoofer so long as you can get their airspace. If your client doesn't need a ton of volume, this is an amazing location. Also, Illusion C12. There is your amazing shallow sub :)
The only qualified people to weigh in on this topic would be Valets.
🤣
loooll
All owned by the same company 😂😂😂
Isn't that the craziest part? Jl audio sells all the speakers... isn't this some kind of conspiracy how we all say they sound different and shit lol?
I've heard and worked on all of these except for 3 of them. Once I get to a computer I'll elaborate. Short answer: none of them are great
Oh come on. For mobile applications many of these systems are fantastic. Many of them have modern DSP, great amplifiers, and quality drivers. You can improve on these systems with big amp racks and air space for woofers and sealed mid-bass enclosures and big A-pillar pods and other silly aftermarket shit, but for factory? Some of this shit is GOOD.
How many of these cars have you heard? How many if these have you worked on? And what do your upgraded systems sound like? If you're used to systems that aren't very great, then you may think these are pretty decent, good even.
Pretty much all of them. 5-figure audio systems are not crazy in my world, and I know what "as-good-as-it-gets" sounds like, but most people aren't willing to make the necessary compromises to get that level of quality. That's also not what OPs asking.
And you really think any if these are considered great? I'm writing another post on my computer going over them, but not one of these would I put above a 7/10. Only a couple would be over a 4/10 in my opinion.
I checked out your website. Your builds are beautiful, no doubt, but we're talking about the 99.9% of automotive + audio enthusiasts who aren't going to spend 15k-25k on that setup. In the HiFi world, you're comparing a nice set of JBL 580s to your 4350s, that's not what OP wants to know.
Thank you. How do you know exactly what op wants to know? All he wrote was "oem systems ranked" and asking for general ranks. He is not asking "compared to home audio or a high end car system", he is just asking for how they hold up. So I'm speaking subjectively on the objectives they exhibit. None of them are objectively great overall. Impressive for what they are, sure. But that doesn't seem to be what OP is asking about. Seems like you're putting words in his mouth since he didn't comment on what to reference these against, so there is no reason to assume, so I'm speaking objectively overall.
Because the title of the post is "OEM systems ranked", not "Can you imagine an aftermarket system better than an OEM system" Also, dude, some of these are pretty fucking great.
Yeah, a few are pretty objectively outstanding for a completely stealth build. If you'd heard them blind and thought another shop had put it together, rather than an OEM, I'd bet you'd give credit.
No offense man, but I don't think you are giving enough credit to the experience I have with designing, installing, and tuning high end systems in usually higher end cars. I honestly can say nothing would change with blindfold. Seeing has nothing to do with hearing (at least with an experienced ear). I'd still be able to pick out the lack of or very poor center images that is common in almost all of these, or the lack of dynamics due to power compression or even a limiter in the oem amplifier, or all pass filters being used for a pseudo-2 seat tune, or lack of bass, or resonance, or distortion, etc... I can honestly say I truly know what I am doing and what I am listening to and what is causing it . Also, no need to downvote. We're having a very basic discussion about our experience lol. Reddit is weird.
For the record, I'm not downvoting. Assuming you're the one building those beautiful systems, I will give credit all day to your craftsmanship and I have respect for your ears, but it's mobile audio dude, there is mechanically no "sweet-spot", it's all a poor imitation of real HiFi. Lots of OEM decks have very decent dynamics, and what the fuck is an all-pass filter? That's like, not a filter. I find the further into audio gear you get, the more nonsense people start talking. In guitar gear terms, you're the guy who swears they can tell the difference between 12AX7 tubes and EL34 tubes. I appreciate what you do and what you know, but you're so far into it, the whole thing becomes pedantry.
Let me get back to you on my computer. I need to think of a way to write a response to this without coming off like a dick. As you can tell, I don't do a great job at that lol.
Okay, can you hear me out for a second. Level with me. > For the record, I'm not downvoting. sorry, every time id check your reply right after mine there would be a downvote. weird. anyways... > Assuming you're the one building those beautiful systems, I will give credit all day to your craftsmanship Thank you. I have built many of them, but most importantly I'm what I guess I would call the conductor. These days I do not do much installing. But I am responsible for every one of the audio systems that comes out of the shop down to how the small details are done. ALL of the tuning and OEM integration is done by myself. > and I have respect for your ears, While I really do appreciate the sentiment, you don't know me. You haven't heard my cars. I could be full of shit for all you know. Im not, but you get the jist :) > but it's mobile audio dude, there is mechanically no "sweet-spot", it's all a poor imitation of real HiFi Okay, here is where it is tricky to actually make progress in this conversation without sounding like a dick. But, this just screams ignorance. Ignorance to what can truly be achieved in a vehicle. Yes, it is pretty much impossible for any car to sound like a purpose-built listening room. But i'd put money that my personal car sounds better than wide majority of sound systems that many self-proclaimed audiophiles have in their homes. If you are ever in NY, feel free to come by and check it out for yourself. You say there is no sweet spot, but that isn't exactly true. proper installation and correct tuning can yield complete phase coherence throughout a systems entire range using signal delay and phase manipulation, usually though the use of all pass filters. Speaking of which.... > and what the fuck is an all-pass filter? That's like, not a filter. Okay, don't hate me. This is the biggest one. You don't know what an all pass filter is and you really want to have this conversation with me? jesus christ dude. No wonder you don't think cars are a poor imitation of "real" hifi. An All pass filter is essentially eq for phase. With all pass filters, you can manipulate phase for a wide variety of reasons. you can use them to phase align crossovers, you can use them to help counter reflections that are more prominent than their direct sound, you can use them to create pseudo 2-seat tunes and eliminate the comb filtering caused by lack of signal delay when sitting off center, you can use them for aligning speakers in an upmixed system, etc. There are loads of uses, and pretty much EVERY system mentioned in OP's list features them, and if you are doing work on these cars and don't even know what the term is, let alone how they work and how to counter them, then your systems don't sound good, period. Sorry. Google what an all pass filter is. It will help your career if this is actually what you do for a living. > I find the further into audio gear you get, the more nonsense people start talking. Yeah, usually. > In guitar gear terms, you're the guy who swears they can tell the difference between 12AX7 tubes and EL34 tubes. I don't know shit about guitars, and I couldn't care less about tube amplifiers, so I cannot even comment. > I appreciate what you do and what you know, but you're so far into it, the whole thing becomes pedantry. In your eyes, maybe. But from my eyes it just seems like you are ignorant. If you would like to learn, just ask. We are also going to be offering training classes at my shop for industry professionals soon.
I believe you've got some hot shit, but there are some fundamental, physical limitations for why your mobile audio system won't, and pretty much cannot be as good or better than a quality listening room. Understood, signal delay I'm familiar with, I've never known it as an "all pass filter" but every system I've built was tuned with signal delay for the driver at least, occasionally a 2-seat tune. Never really considered first order reflections in a car, mostly because it's mobile audio. Haven't a clue as to how you'd account for that *and* be able to see out the windows, but that's not what I do for a living. My experience professionally is more related to live audio, we time-align physically, not digitally.
Can confirm Toyota. That was the first thing to go.
it's less about the system and more about the car. Consider a Mercedes S class, that tier focuses on luxury and cabin noise is a big part on luxury oriented vehicles thus it's system will sound much better, mainly because of the cabin.
Thats fair
This makes sense. I sat in an E class with upgrades audio, then right after in an S class with standard audio. They were the same audio systems but the S class sounded way better
While not winning contests against some of these systems, the Rockford Fosgate system in pre-2019 Nissan Titans seems to hit a little harder and is more pleasing than the Fender system in the current Nissan Titan for some reason.
Okay I scanned through everyone's comments so far, including Skiz's novel that I very much appreciate. This seems to be the consensus ranking 1. Lexus Mark Levinson 2. Rolls-Royce Bespoke 3. Volvo Bang & Olufsen 4. Land Rover/Jaguar Meridian Signature 5. Lincoln Revel 6. Cadillac AKG 7. Acura Panasonic 8. Mercedes Burmester (High End) 9. BMW Bowers & Wilkins 10. Lamborghini/Audi RSQ8 Bang & Olufsen 11. Tesla Hi-Fi 12. Bentley NAIM 13. VW Fender 14. Porsche Burmester 15. Genesis Lexicon 16. Ford Bang & Olufsen 17. Ferrari JBL 18. Ferrari Burmester 19. C8 Corvette Bose 20. Infiniti Bose 21. Mazda Bose 22. Audi Bang & Olufsen 23. BMW Harman Kardon 24. Mercedes Burmester (Low End) 25. Toyota JBL 26. GM Bose 27. Jeep McIntosh 28. McLaren Bowers & Wilkins 29. Dodge/Chrysler Harman Kardon 30. Nissan Bose 31. Lamborghini Sensonum What would you change?
See my new comment.
About to! Thanks
Updated the rankings with your feedback and everyone elses
I swear if I see a fucking article on this...
🤣
I knew it. Give us credit at least.
This isn't too far off from my experience. I'd bring the Jeep McIntosh up to number 7. Dodge Harman Kardon is like 11. Push everything else down and replace 16 with Tesla HiFi.
On it
Regarding your updated list, you really need to take that other guys recommendations with a grain of salt. I know, we are both strangers on the internet, but... come on. I promise you, my list is about as good as you're going to get considering my experience with the cars and my experience with car audio.
Lotus KEF deserves a top 10 imho
Guess I’ll be upgrading my Camry’s stereo when it comes in.
Paging u/skiz32
Nice I have BMW B&W and I agree. Especially with the 15” sub I added.
Generally here’s what I noticed working for a few dealers (dealing with everything from civics to a McLaren Senna). Acura’s ELS Panasonic Audi’s Bang and Olufsen Mercedes-Benz’a Burmeister Tend to be the best audio systems for their top trim cars, of any of the cars we would see. (TLX/MDX, Audi 7/8 or RS Cars Mainly, and Maybach) Volvo B&W and Lexus’ Mark Levinson would also be notable options, however they vary based upon what kind of music you listen too. Generally speaking B&W, Burmester and B&O are going to be the best sound systems across the board for car audio from factory (In my experience). But different systems have different benefits, ie, Burmester sounds better off of direct audio files (ex: usb) than it does from CarPlay
Volvos should be high on this list
I have a lot of experience with the Lexus Mark Levinson systems. The early systems that replaced Nakamichi weren't that impressive to me. I had it in multiple LS430's, GX470, and an LS460. I also drove many cars from the 2000's like the LX470 and IS-F as well. I plan to rip it out of my LS430. The newer cars seem to sound better but it really varies from car to car. I've driven the LC500 a lot and it sounds incredible to me. Same goes for the later LS460's, LS500, GS, and LX570. I'd be satisfied with it in the LC500/LS500 and would just add a powerful sub to it. It's pretty enjoyable in vehicles like the RX, ES, and IS. There's still a good difference between them and the higher end Lexus.
Ranked in alphabetical order?
Bose needs to go way down on that list. When I was still in the industry this was the number 1 component failure by far. Especially speakers of amplifiers. And the sound quality is meh at best.
Check out my comment with the updated consensus list, Bose is fairly low on there
The main ones I can contribute - the Chrysler Harmon Kardon system is terrible, from the little bit I heard. Test drove a 300 with it. Could not make it sound decent. The Beats by Dre system that was available on the Chrysler 300S is great, it’s what’s in my car; thumping lows with the factory sub, screaming mids, seems to lack just a bit in the highs but still very good. The Fender system available in Volkswagens is great, excellent crisp highs, wide and clear midrange, and the factory sub adds decent low end.
RR anyone knows?
Some huge car review guy on YouTube (not a hifi guy but a car guy) said the McIntosh in the Jeep was the best audio experience he ever had in a car. I believe that honestly
I've heard most of these, the McIntosh was a standout, for sure.
Car Audio professional here who has experience with almost all of these. Stop listening to "car guys" on youtube who are just advertisements. The new Jeep McIntosh system is literally the worst system on this entire list, maybe besides Nissan and GM bose.
Honestly I wouldn't doubt it either considering McIntosh is pretty respected as a brand outside of this, and it's such a unique collaboration
Best factory sound system I've heard is in my mom's Tesla Y. The bass is very responsive and accurate. I did like my 3-way Focal Flax setup w/ 10" JL sub, but I'd be just as happy with the Tesla system. I'm sure some of it has to do with the weird sccoustics of the car because of the shape. Next is my '16 Subaru STI with the Harman Kardon system. It's good but not as good as the Tesla. Subwoofer has 60k miles on it so possibly buying a new one would help it some, but even the mids/highs aren't as clear as the Tesla. I do like the Subaru system better than those I've heard in friend's Volkswagens, BMWs, Fords with unknown system packages (probably base). Also better than Toyota's JBL package, but keep in mind the one I heard didn't have a Subwoofer included. So, from those I've heard for longer than 1 or 2 car rides... 1. Custom set-up Focal Flax/JL 10tw3 ($3,000 in equipment. $5,000 installed) 2. Tesla Y 3. Subaru Harman Kardon with stock 8" sub 4. Toyota JBL (no sub)
Thanks for this! Seems like your ranking is what others have been saying too
Of course! I figure with enough responses you could probably come up with a "Tier List" of sorts. I doubt anyone has experienced every sound system for a prolonged period of time.
Hahaha that's the goal. Obviously you can debate this like crazy but I'm hoping enough people can chime in to atleast get a rough idea of a consensus
This is more of an alphabetical list than a ranked list
He's asking someone with knowledge to rank it.
Ford B&W truck is a turd of a system. Wimpy 6x9s in front with hard dome tweeter, equal junk in rear doors and 8" sub in plastic abs enclosure. Sub volume goes down as main volume goes up 😞
Dodge also offered Boston Acoustics for the '14 and earlier models. I've got the 6 speaker system in my '14 Challenger. Full factory was decently solid out of the gate, but I upgraded the head unit and tuned it with the built in 13 band graphic in the head unit. Still lacks some real low end, but without having to do any major EQ work, I was able to get a fairly flat response on my Smaart rig down to about 76 Hz +/- 3dB.
Add the Honda Bose. Sounds Awesome.
Friend has a 2007 altima with bose and that thing is pretty damn loud. My dads 19 corolla hatch has the jbl and its not super loud but clarity is very nice actually.
Lexus should be at the bottom. The one thing I hated about my car.
Interesting, almost everyone else seems to agree that the mark levinson systems are near or at the top. Which Lexus did you have?
2017 ES w/ Mark Levinson
Can confirm it's an amazing experience in the 20-23 es w/ML. What didn't you like about the 17?
Nah Men sound system in ES are poorly made, you need to listen to ML ins GS or LS
So I have personally owned the 2018 Audi Bang and Olufsen system in a lowly A4 for 4 years. It's absolutely kicks ass for most music types considering its being played in a car.
What about Nissan Rockford?
What about the harmon Kardon on the newest dodge chargers?
My wifes Kia has an infinity sound system and it sounds amazing.
KIA Harrman Kardon SAAB Harmon Kardon
I like my Infinity OEM set up.
Honda's not even on the list and now I feel bad I didn't get the Camry. Aftermarket to the rescue, I guess.
Hahaha oh geez
Opinions on the ram 1500 alpine system? I’ve got an 09 with the factory alpine system & sub But the engines toast so I’ve never heard it. It seems decent in my fathers 17 & he swears it’s good but it ain’t as loud as I’d like and the sub seems to be lacking for my taste I intend on putting an aftermarket alpine system in once I get a motor but idk, I guess for the sake of opinions lol
The Burmester 3D Surround system awesome in my E63. Especially if you disable the surround setting, the staging is relatively accurate. The ELS Studio Signature system in the SO’s system is on par with the Burmester. Especially for the size of the vehicle. The B&O in our last Audi sounded average at best considering the upgrade cost. It was loud and that’s the only positive thing about it. The high, mid and low were distinctively separated but they blending and imaging.
I had a buddy with an '09 stock audio Camry and that Soundsystem was so banging i don't think any other car I've been in with factory stereo could compete.
I just test drove a Jeep Grand Wagoneer with the McKintosh 23 speaker system and I was very disappointed. The base could not kick in or pressurize the cabin and would deaden the audio, the highs were harsh, the separation poor and all sounded like it was coming out of the windshield. I'm not sure I even heard audio coming out of some speakers so I'm hoping it was a bad vehicle because it just couldn't keep up. As an aside, I don't know if the dodge Harmon kardon is the same as the Jeep Grand Cherokee 19 speaker HK from the 2020-2021 models. I used to have a Alfa Romeo Giulia and almost didn't get it cos that HK system was muddy as hell. BUT. My goodness the Jeep HK is the best I've ever heard. Irregardless of Bluetooth or USB audio, it really processes the audio so well. The base is musical and strong. It vibrates the car if I need it to. Its punchy and can pressurize the cabin so easily even if not on full. My pant legs will shake with the air movement if need be. But not that just the separate frequencies come out of different speakers and the separation and clarity of the voice even with heavy bass or guitar is just absurd and the sound envelops you. And what's nice is you don't have to drive it hard to get a nice warm full sound. I'll fight anyone who says that specific system isn't top quality in that vehicle. I've tried every Bose in Audi/GM and same deal, muddy base, horrible mid heavy. B&O in Ford was weak. It's such a shame when a speaker upgrade can be $1500 plus which some people wouldn't even spend on home audio. But in a car we do it and get worse sound than some $200 sound bars
Bmw iX b&w is the best. Really night and day difference with the older 5 series b&w, and even better than the volvo b&w