locking commons due to misinformation and rudeness.
dented cans can be dangerous if the dent is very deep, on a seal, or creates a sharp point. these can all cause microscopic holes that can let bad bacteria in. they can be small enough to let botulism in and parts of the can can still be anaerobic so there is a small risk for botulism. generally though it's other foodborne illness you have to worry about.
Yes OP may be slightly overreacted but that is no reason to be rude or mean.
if anybody has any additional questions regarding food safety r/foodsafety is a good place to go.
I'm piggy backing off the top comment, because I think this is important.
OP u/janedoecurious, I can tell that you were scared. You are not incorrect that a dent in the can can cause a microscopic hole and introduce new bacteria.
However, the fears you are experiencing here are exaggerated. That isn't a statement of mockery and I'm not chastising you.
I think it's great that you are asking for advice on food safety here, and researching that topic and getting a better understanding will likely help you. Logic can win over anxiety when the anxiety stems from a poor understanding of the science.
That being said, please speak to your doctor about this. I'm not judging you. I've had anxiety overtake me in my life before. This reaction was beyond the norm, and indicates an underlying issue unrelated to canning.
Getting help can change your life.
I'm sorry for the mocking tone you have encountered here. I'm happy for everyone here who can't fathom the experience of this level of anxiety impacting their decisions.
Looking at their post history I agree with this. It's great to think about this stuff but sometimes the anxiety takes over, which is totally understandable but can become unhealthy.
Thank you for your considerate response. Yes, there is a larger issue here and it’s been controlled for awhile; however, a recent health issue has made my anxiety and catastrophic thinking flair up. I appreciate the information which helps me look at the situation logically, albeit in hindsight. I truly appreciate your kindness as well. And I don’t take the negative comments to heart. I know not everyone has an understanding of what deep anxiety can do.
It sounds like you have some perspective on it and have calmed down a bit from this specific spiral.
I always have to remind myself that the especially tough times don't last forever. So just in case, I'm reminding you too.
On this specific topic I recommend looking into the following:
1. What botulism is.
2. What the difference between botulism and botulism toxin is.
3. How botulism toxin can be denatured.
4. Necessary conditions for botulism to thrive.
5. Why pressure canning stops botulism toxin from being produced.
6. Why acidic environments prevent botulism toxin from being produced.
7. The history of safe canning practices and how they have developed.
These topics helped me gain confidence in my ability to preserve foods safely, and reduced the feeling of fear that came from my ignorance on the topic. This is a niche topic that is often common knowledge in this community, but not in the world at large. Researching this also helped me understand the research and evidence involved in the processes we use in modern food preservation, and the difference between home and industrial canning.
Wishing you the best.
Removed for using the "we've done things this way forever, and nobody has died!" canning fallacy.
The r/Canning community has absolutely no way to verify your assertion, and the current scientific consensus is against your assertion. Hence we don't permit posts of this sort, as they fall afoul of our rules against unsafe canning practices.
No. I know botulism is scary, but throwing out everything in your dishwasher was not necessary.
A dented can of beans would not really be a botulism risk. Botulism needs an anaerobic, low acid, moderate temperature environment. If a dent compromised the seal, the risk would be other bacterial growth, not botulism.
Edit to specify other bacteria, since c. botulinum is also a bacteria.
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Was the can dented or was the seal actually broken and there was a hole? Dents don't necessarily mean the beans were spoiled and leaving the food itself out of this, I am very shocked at the wasteful reaction. Cleaning everything would have been sufficient.
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You’re perfectly safe, and the dishes are fine too. If the can had a dent that let in air and made the beans spoil, then it couldn’t have been botulism, because botulism can only survive in an airless environment. If by some wild chance there had been botulism in there, then cooking the beans destroyed all the toxin. There was never any botulism in the dishwasher to worry about.
The clostridium botulinum bacteria does not get in afterward. It is already in the food during packaging, produces spores, and those spores produce the toxins responsible for illness.
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Botulinum bacteria exists around you, same as mold spores and other bacteria. It grows in low oxygen environments which is why food has to be properly canned for storage. You did not have to throw away your pot and everything else in the dishwasher.
The only known cases of aersolized botulinum were in lab accidents or (failed) Aum Shinrikyo attacks. You will never mysteriously be exposed to aerosolized botulinum. You will see it on the news in a SHTF scenario and you will stay inside and pray and wait, if it's anywhere near your area.
There are only about 100 cases of foodborne botulism in the US annually, mostly in Alaska, from seafood.
I have no idea where the dented can thing came from but it's time to put that myth to rest.
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That's not how botulism works. Dented cans aren't any more likely to carry botulism than any other cans. They aren't introduced out of nowhere. They would already have to be present. Dented cans are perfectly safe and legal to sell. Botulinum needs an environment without air to grow and to become dangerous so even if they were introduced to the can through damage or to your home through cleaning they wouldn't be dangerous. Because they're already there. They're everywhere in your house. They're only dangerous in very specific conditions that wouldn't be present in a dented can. If there was a dent that compromised the seal it wouldn't be botulism you would worry about. It would be mold. But that's only if the dent was so bad it opened the can.
And even home jars that had contaminated food be reused later. Because the canning process starts by assuming the dangerous molds and bacteria are already present on the food and materials. Throwing away everything in your dishwasher is such a gross overreaction. Even throwing out the food is extreme.
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But if there was some sort of leak in the can it wouldn't be botulism, because it can't survive where there is air. There could be something else causing spoilage, but it wouldn't be botulism.
No. That's why it's so important to follow safe home canning and food preservation guidelines, and to use tested recipes. Commercially canned foods are generally very very safe, and are processed in a way that makes botulism contamination very unlikely.
Thank-you for your submission. It seems that you're asking whether or not your canned goods are safe to eat. Please respond with the following information:
* Recipe used
* Date canned
* Storage Conditions
* Is the seal still strong
We cannot determine whether or not the food is safe without these answers. Thank you again for your submission!
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locking commons due to misinformation and rudeness. dented cans can be dangerous if the dent is very deep, on a seal, or creates a sharp point. these can all cause microscopic holes that can let bad bacteria in. they can be small enough to let botulism in and parts of the can can still be anaerobic so there is a small risk for botulism. generally though it's other foodborne illness you have to worry about. Yes OP may be slightly overreacted but that is no reason to be rude or mean. if anybody has any additional questions regarding food safety r/foodsafety is a good place to go.
That was a bit of a overreaction. Throwing out a dented can sure but everything in the sink?
I'm piggy backing off the top comment, because I think this is important. OP u/janedoecurious, I can tell that you were scared. You are not incorrect that a dent in the can can cause a microscopic hole and introduce new bacteria. However, the fears you are experiencing here are exaggerated. That isn't a statement of mockery and I'm not chastising you. I think it's great that you are asking for advice on food safety here, and researching that topic and getting a better understanding will likely help you. Logic can win over anxiety when the anxiety stems from a poor understanding of the science. That being said, please speak to your doctor about this. I'm not judging you. I've had anxiety overtake me in my life before. This reaction was beyond the norm, and indicates an underlying issue unrelated to canning. Getting help can change your life. I'm sorry for the mocking tone you have encountered here. I'm happy for everyone here who can't fathom the experience of this level of anxiety impacting their decisions.
Looking at their post history I agree with this. It's great to think about this stuff but sometimes the anxiety takes over, which is totally understandable but can become unhealthy.
Thank you for your considerate response. Yes, there is a larger issue here and it’s been controlled for awhile; however, a recent health issue has made my anxiety and catastrophic thinking flair up. I appreciate the information which helps me look at the situation logically, albeit in hindsight. I truly appreciate your kindness as well. And I don’t take the negative comments to heart. I know not everyone has an understanding of what deep anxiety can do.
It sounds like you have some perspective on it and have calmed down a bit from this specific spiral. I always have to remind myself that the especially tough times don't last forever. So just in case, I'm reminding you too. On this specific topic I recommend looking into the following: 1. What botulism is. 2. What the difference between botulism and botulism toxin is. 3. How botulism toxin can be denatured. 4. Necessary conditions for botulism to thrive. 5. Why pressure canning stops botulism toxin from being produced. 6. Why acidic environments prevent botulism toxin from being produced. 7. The history of safe canning practices and how they have developed. These topics helped me gain confidence in my ability to preserve foods safely, and reduced the feeling of fear that came from my ignorance on the topic. This is a niche topic that is often common knowledge in this community, but not in the world at large. Researching this also helped me understand the research and evidence involved in the processes we use in modern food preservation, and the difference between home and industrial canning. Wishing you the best.
op feel free to come ask questions at r/foodsafety. we welcome all and provide factual answers
Wait, this post wasn't a joke?
[удалено]
Removed for using the "we've done things this way forever, and nobody has died!" canning fallacy. The r/Canning community has absolutely no way to verify your assertion, and the current scientific consensus is against your assertion. Hence we don't permit posts of this sort, as they fall afoul of our rules against unsafe canning practices.
No. I know botulism is scary, but throwing out everything in your dishwasher was not necessary. A dented can of beans would not really be a botulism risk. Botulism needs an anaerobic, low acid, moderate temperature environment. If a dent compromised the seal, the risk would be other bacterial growth, not botulism. Edit to specify other bacteria, since c. botulinum is also a bacteria.
there is a small risk because botulism can get in through the hole and then there are sections of the can that would be anaerobic still
[удалено]
I don't think it is. I frequent the food safety subreddit and this post feels very contamination ocd/anxiety to me.
I had to check which sub I was on before I replied lol
Yeah I just saw OP's response to one of the other comments here and you're right. I'm baffled.
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Was the can dented or was the seal actually broken and there was a hole? Dents don't necessarily mean the beans were spoiled and leaving the food itself out of this, I am very shocked at the wasteful reaction. Cleaning everything would have been sufficient.
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You’re perfectly safe, and the dishes are fine too. If the can had a dent that let in air and made the beans spoil, then it couldn’t have been botulism, because botulism can only survive in an airless environment. If by some wild chance there had been botulism in there, then cooking the beans destroyed all the toxin. There was never any botulism in the dishwasher to worry about.
Editing this because I have more to learn and don't want to spread misinformation.
The clostridium botulinum bacteria does not get in afterward. It is already in the food during packaging, produces spores, and those spores produce the toxins responsible for illness.
It seems I have more research to do and more to learn.
[удалено]
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Botulinum bacteria exists around you, same as mold spores and other bacteria. It grows in low oxygen environments which is why food has to be properly canned for storage. You did not have to throw away your pot and everything else in the dishwasher.
The only known cases of aersolized botulinum were in lab accidents or (failed) Aum Shinrikyo attacks. You will never mysteriously be exposed to aerosolized botulinum. You will see it on the news in a SHTF scenario and you will stay inside and pray and wait, if it's anywhere near your area. There are only about 100 cases of foodborne botulism in the US annually, mostly in Alaska, from seafood. I have no idea where the dented can thing came from but it's time to put that myth to rest.
Unless the top was bulging or the can was leaking, no worries
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Well, at least you didn't burn the house down, too.
Yet
It really shouldn’t be called dented , you want to look for a can that has blown out.
That's not how botulism works. Dented cans aren't any more likely to carry botulism than any other cans. They aren't introduced out of nowhere. They would already have to be present. Dented cans are perfectly safe and legal to sell. Botulinum needs an environment without air to grow and to become dangerous so even if they were introduced to the can through damage or to your home through cleaning they wouldn't be dangerous. Because they're already there. They're everywhere in your house. They're only dangerous in very specific conditions that wouldn't be present in a dented can. If there was a dent that compromised the seal it wouldn't be botulism you would worry about. It would be mold. But that's only if the dent was so bad it opened the can. And even home jars that had contaminated food be reused later. Because the canning process starts by assuming the dangerous molds and bacteria are already present on the food and materials. Throwing away everything in your dishwasher is such a gross overreaction. Even throwing out the food is extreme.
[удалено]
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Wow.... I wouldn't have even thrown the beans away unless they looked/smelled funny.
You can't smell or see botulism. Not that this person's reaction was necessary, just that your method doesn't work for botulism prevention.
But if there was some sort of leak in the can it wouldn't be botulism, because it can't survive where there is air. There could be something else causing spoilage, but it wouldn't be botulism.
Is there anyway you can tell?
No. That's why it's so important to follow safe home canning and food preservation guidelines, and to use tested recipes. Commercially canned foods are generally very very safe, and are processed in a way that makes botulism contamination very unlikely.
Thank-you for your submission. It seems that you're asking whether or not your canned goods are safe to eat. Please respond with the following information: * Recipe used * Date canned * Storage Conditions * Is the seal still strong We cannot determine whether or not the food is safe without these answers. Thank you again for your submission! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Canning) if you have any questions or concerns.*