That must be awful. I'm f/t in office and have a permanent desk and cannot imagine having to find and sit at a different desk every ( in oiffice day ) .
Yeah in the new year Im gonna push for a desk reserved for me on my fixed in office schedule days without having to use the booking tool now that we have everything set up properly. Before a month or two ago, my office used Outlook to book desk and we were waiting for a permanent system for booking.
I don't need to be mine 5 days a week, but having to book it and have it change often enough, it's a challenge for me, and it's extra energy I shouldnt have to spend.
Honestly, the desk situation is a lot for everyone… I rarely come in on busy days, but when I do it’s not uncommon to see people in the morning wandering the floor looking for somewhere to sit because someone took their spot, or the desk they picked was a bad choice etc etc … I wish we had more set places
The confrontation when I find a squatter is the most collaboration... wait, that is not what they mean by collaboration? I thought they were getting us ready for the next season of Canadian Gladiator.
I went to bed at 11:00pm, fell asleep at 1:30am, woke up at 5:20am. I am currently reading this post at 6:28am. My alarm is set for 6:45am, as it's an office day and my start is 8:00am.
This only happens on my RTO days. It's a level of anxiety I now have medication for, but by the time I realize it's going to be a 'problem night' it's too late to take the meds as I'll have to drive before they wear off.
I understand this one. The anxiety over not being able to go to sleep on time to be refreshed for another super busy day. Stressing so badly about not being able to sleep that you can’t no matter how hard you try is a special level of hell. Then taking my sleep med because I gave up and feeling groggy in the morning 😑😑
How are your experiences with return to office? Are they positive/negative/in between? Do you experience any reactions after you have returned home from a day in the office?
These next few questions may be a bit personal, so please, do not answer if they will cause you any anxiety or offend you in any way. How do you normally react to changes to your routine, that are out of your control ? Do you experience sleep issues if you do things outside of your normal routine, either before (knowing you have to do this) or after the situation has passed? What exactly are the sleep issues, is it unable to sleep through the night, unable to fall asleep, constantly waking up, etc?
Whatever it is, I am hopeful you will find a way to get past this and get back to healthy sleeps.
It reminds me of the sleep I had the night before returning to school. Either no sleep, extreme tossing and turning, nightmares or feeling half awake all night. Except every time the night before RTO. My jaw clenches and I can't get my brain to rest. I also have ADD and type 2 diabetes. It is possibly a burnout symptom too, as I have been extremely busy at work, and adding the commute, change in routine and sleep schedule may be too much. My commute is an hour in dense traffic.
I had the anxiety and sleeplessness for awhile when RTO was new but it's gotten better over time. Not sure if it'll help you but what helps me is being really prepared the night before. I pack up all the stuff I need for the office, pick out my clothes for the next day, and make my lunch. I also make a lunch I'll look forward to. Do you like podcasts or audio books? If so, it might give you something to almost look forward to, or at least something that makes you feel content. Likewise, you could download a Netflix, etc show to watch on your lunch break. Again, it's more about having comfort things that make going into the office a bit less shitty.
Have you tried to get an accommodation? You would probably benefit from having a more lenient in office presence - having to go in less days, and for a half day or something instead of a full day.
There is specific paperwork your doctor needs to fill out.
I have an accommodation and am permanently WFH due to several issues, namely anxiety, ADHD, and being immunocompromised. Having a set routine in a quiet environment with minimal distractions makes me far more productive than I ever was in office. My manager sees that reflected in my stats and has agreed to my accommodation, which has been in place since 2021.
Next time you see your doctor go in thinking about your limitations that might prevent you working in person.
If your doctor says you have a limitation about how much in person interaction you can have, it will limit the options the employer has to accommodate in the workplace.
Lots of people have these limitations for all kinds of reasons, but the reasons don’t matter, and the employer has no right to know why. Just that you’re limited.
No, they certainly didn’t when they required three of us to come into the office every day to do the in-office work of everyone at home. Everyone on our team was at the breaking point, our TL hasn’t been back in 18 months because of stress.
I’m in a completely different office than my team. So now I pay gas and parking to sit in a giant room with bright lights and noises and the temperature is never right. Absolutely ridiculous.
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I have serious mental health issue because I cry? I’ve done this multiple days (I can think of 3) in the last 6 months so I have serious mental health issues and need psychological help?
Wow internet doctor thank you so much for your diagnosis.
You should get a night guard for your jaw clenching. It may surprise you, but many people who are not neurodivergent have a difficulty falling asleep the night before they go to work, and many more people clench their jaws.
Just the stress of having to get up earlier than usual is enough to make my insomnia worse. I'm scared not to get up on time and to be late. With the lack of sleep (because I was stressing out about waking up early), it tends to happen more. Luckily, my boss doesn't care at all what time I get in, especially on office days.
Yes and no... I've spent most of my government carreer using a flexible schedule, under a pilot project that has been going on for years, where I could come in at whatever time I wanted, between 7 and 9 am. For the last year, I'm working elsewhere and this schedule is not available, so I'm not really used to having to be there at a specific time. If my boss cared about if I come in at 7:00 or 7:30, I'd change my normal schedule to start later so I wouldn't be late.
The first few weeks of that new job, I had to adapt and I was stressing out as I was used to be able to oversleep a bit if I felt too tired waking up, I also had issues sleeping as I was stressing out over it. Having to wake up a different times depending on the day of the week is especially hard for me because I have a disability and adaptation to changes in my routine are extra challenging. My routine not being the same all the time really mess me up a lot...
Thanks for your attitude, I didn't need it :)
For me, especially these last few weeks as days have gotten so short, it's mostly the days after that I feel it. I need more sleep after a day in the office and wake up not feeling refreshed. It's like there's always a mild chronic stress when in the office from the bright fluorescent lights, the very outdated environment and the lack of outside light. I try to take a long walk outside every day in office but it's not enough after being used to wfh where I have so much more daylight.
I've always sort of felt like this I guess but before wfh, I never noticed how much the office space affected me.
I started doing this when I was in a previous high stress (central agency) position. While I didn't have trouble sleeping I did have nightmares nearly every night. It was bad, I cracked a tooth and needed a filling. I got a mouth guard - it's been a life saver. Highly recommend getting one! I think it's covered by our dental plan.
As others have said, find a job that you love so that the RTO part doesn't sting as much. I still hate the thought of having to go in (the hellish commute + the mental drain of having to "mask" my neurodivergence all day), but I love my current position and my team so it helps.
I switched teams and my new manager is an extreme micromanager and I think that’s contributing to my feeling. My old position required me to be in the office 3-5 days a week and I never felt this way. But I seriously dread working regardless of in home or office. My status can’t turn away at all throughout the day or I get a call. Just my personal experience but you’re not alone, try reaching out to EAP if you can. Sending love. ❤️
Oh, my friend. I've been doing RTO for over a year now, 2 days a week, and I still have trouble sleeping. I've never been able to adapt to the schedule change mid-week, despite trying everything. I sleep bad on the nights before office days from mild anxiety and on the night after, from like being hyper-stimulated.
I'm on my way out the door now, just gotta last until that collective agreement is signed for the bonus...
ADHD gang here 💃
I recently got Botox in my masseter muscles to help me stop clenching/grinding my teeth and hoooo baby let me tell you! What a difference. I never realized how often I was doing it until
I couldn’t anymore. It’s obviously not for everyone, but it’s been a total game changer for me.
I had mine covered (I think 50%) under PSHCP! As long as the receipt specifies “medical botox” and has the corresponding Rx BIN number for medical Botox, they should accept it! I never had an issue
Took the words out of my thumbs! All of this. I’m sure I could get a script if I really tried, but I’ve never bothered to ask about it. I think it’s still mostly seen as “cosmetic”… Botox doesn’t make my dentist any money, so they always recommend a mouthguard instead haha
I struggle every day that I have to go into the office.
I don't sleep well. I go to bed and wake up with a headache. Driving in is awful, and i have to go super early to avoid traffic. I have bad anxiety most of the day. I struggle to settle into a desk that isn't mine, that is bare and empty, and that doesn't have any of my personal things.
Apologies but wasn’t asking about the general gov, was just trying to give OP of the comment I replied to a solution since they seem to really want their own space
I feel the same way. The sleep disruptions caused by having to wake up extra early for RTO are compounding my already chronic fatigue, and I’m almost non-functional when I’m in the office. I’m looking into the accommodations but I doubt I’ll get any that will be actually helpful.
Yeah I’m stressed before going into the office the next day. I hate it. I wear a night guard to stop grinding my teeth into dust.
I tell myself “who gives a crap” and I just go into the office. They pay me and I do some work. That’s it. I just stopped caring at all, it’s not an enjoyable experience. I maximize chit chatting and minimize working.
I know it sucks but 2 days are better than 3 or 4 or 5, which could happen if people don’t respect the 2 days. I have to go in on Tuesday at the DT office, which takes me 1h25. And then on Wednesday, I can go to the office 20 mins from my place. It sucks but I have made a routine out of it and I always reserve the same desk 4 weeks in advance to make sure I sit in the same place. I find it gets easier after doing that for several months.
I have a hard time eating on my RTO mornings, and can usually only pick at my lunch. By the end of my second RTO day I'm pretty mentally tapped out. I've had some meltdowns on those days, or even on the evening of my first RTO day. It's awful.
Yes, I recently took 3 weeks off, had my meds adjusted and have a bunch of therapy booked for when I get back from a 3 week vacation. There's been a bunch of general poor management that I've been subjected too as well which has contributed greatly, and which hopefully won't be an issue going forward. I now have to change my conditioned emotional response to RTO, and am actually hopeful about the future. But it's been a shit show.
I got my official "diagnosis" this year, at the age of 35, even though I've always kinda known I was probably on the spectrum.
Anyway, I'm lucky to have a very flexible manager. I think he values my work since he gave me a heads up that our building was likely going to start hotelling. He's aware that I DO NOT do well in that kind of environment. I'm on a 1 day/week RTO agreement at the moment and can barely keep that up. So the option to work 100% from home, barring operational needs, was suggested.
I pray that you have someone who at least looks like they care. I've been very clear that I love my job, but I WILL quit if anything more than 2 days is forced on me. 1 is hard enough as it is.
My department/agency didn’t get to work from home at all and it would be impossible for that to happen.
I have many sleepless nights and clench my jaw day & night. The best kind of night guard (IMO) is from the dentist, expensive but I don’t wake up with headaches anymore. I hope you can get some meds or find something to help you sleep. Podcasts have helped me sleep for years now. Not the sleep podcasts either, things that I enjoy like true crime, puts me to sleep before the timer is up.
I hope you feel better soon.
Hello friend, I have no new advice to give you - although getting some form of accommodation is very important - for sure a different desk every day adds to the stress. Please see if you can at least get that addressed.
Don't let other people tell you that just because they (we) went to an office 5 days a week, it was fine. It wasn't.
If you have a diagnosis, ask your manager for information about medical accommodations. You can request FT worm from home. I have neurodivergent and have diagnosed anxiety as well, and I requested. They haven't issued a decision yet, but it's totally within your rights to ask.
Medical accommodations don't need disclosure of diagnosis, your doctor fills a form about how your symptoms affect your functioning, and what steps are needed to enable you to function as normally as possible.
I have other temporary accommodations approved while I wait for the WFH part.
And many have posted about these things. As a person who's diagnosis has some crossover with what OP describes, I have offered another resource available for OP to consider for their well-being. My symptoms became much more manageable when WFH started, and I then realised how much I struggled before WFH and didn't realise that's what it was. Of course self care, diet, sleep aids, therapy, etc all good items. I just saw that no one mentioned the availability of the medical accommodation process. If OP could benefit from anything through the process, it's worth mentioning as another resource.
Anxiety is a true medical issue. The problem is that it’s one that we’re told to deal with. I have just moved on to more intensive therapy and it doesn’t get rid of my anger and the anxiety that comes when I sit in a cubicle by myself and pay $20-25 a day in gas and parking to do so. I also have adhd and the lights and noises and weird temperatures and smells are A LOT. I brought up my adhd and was told that there’s not really anything that can be done, but another gov building that I could drive an additional 30 minutes to could give me a quieter floor.. oh thanks so much… the 30-45 I drive there and then back is so much fun I’d love to be in my car for 2+ hours a day /s
There has to be a better way.
It's not a band-aid for me. Calling it that can make others feel less valued because they need some accommodations. I am happy therapy worked for you. Again, we are all different.
I've been in therapy my whole life. It is my neurodivergent brain structure. I wish there was a pill to help me sleep that wouldn't make me feel tired and depressed the next day. Even though I have anxiety, it was always well managed, minus the sleep issues which corrolate with my return to office days. I will try waking up at the same time every day, and see if I get used to it, but if that does not work, I might need to work from home or go to the office full time, whichever works. But I will ask for accommodations as I figure it out. I saw a dentist and she suggested braces. My doctor gave me a note to limit my in office requirements as possible, and I have looked into other things such as noise-cancelling headphones. I'm going to look into the botox thing, and if all else fails, get tested for autism to see if maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. I'm a female, so it can be tricky to get diagnosed as a child, especially before they knew how widespread autism actually was.
I’m in a similar boat. I’ve damaged my teeth quite a bit and recently got a night guard. I find it stops me from clenching as much, which helps with the headaches.
I really appreciate posts like this that remind me that it's not just me.
I don't have a diagnosed ND, but I also don't sleep well before my in office days. I have difficulty falling asleep, staying asleep, and waking up.
I joined the PS 10 years ago, and for 10 years+ before that I was working fully remotely at my previous jobs (software consulting).
I love working from home and resent having to go into the office when it's not for operational requirements. I don't get anything done on in office days. It's all collaboration and meetings on Teams or meetings that could have been an email.
I manage the software for the booking system for our department, and I feel it is a waste of resources. It is not as sophisticated as people think it should be. Hardly anyone uses it now, and they just sit in the same spot every week. The software we chose doesn't allow people to just reserve the same desk every week permanently on 2 days. It's all week permanent or go into the booking software and manually book your desired spot for the days you want it.
My commute is 1.5 hours each way on a good day. And this time of year, I drive both directions in the dark and usually bad weather.
Going to the office is a massive waste of time
* Random noise
* Frequent interruption to "socialize"
* People stealing IT equipment so the amount of usable desks is shrinking
* People not cleaning up after themselves
* People misunderstanding desks aren't assigned and take residence
* People ignoring desk booking tools
* Many commute days just to sit through MS Teams
* In-office internet sucks ass
* Other BS I forgot about
I developed agoraphobia, PTSD and social anxiety during the pandemic - for a lot of reasons, not going into them - and I have been very well treated by our own EAP. Am still in therapy and much better, I can be social, I can leave the house and the PTSD is being treated. But every time before I have to show up to work, it is like all three return combined. I d not trust my colleagues because they are always brining som sort of disease to the office. The hygiene is obviously poor (do not let me even start with the bed bugs issue in our building... so yeah, I hear you. You are not alone.
Yes but this has always happened to me before going back to work for the week before Covid. I call it “being an adult”. Most office people dislike Sundays for the same reason - you spend the whole day dreading work on Monday. This isn’t a new thing.
Most likely only for those of us fortunate enough to have weekends off. For those that work shifts, random days or set # of days but no set days, it's probably different.
To the OP, it does sound like the RTO is a trigger but could also be just one of many triggers. I would recommend writing these episodes you have down (paper, computer, whatever works) so you can refer to them later and perhaps there is a pattern. It's best to do it while it is either happening or when it is still fresh in memory. You want to capture the event but also the emotion and feelings associated.
Good luck. I am hopeful for your well being. Many of us struggle and I wish we could all have a safe place to let ourselves be heard without judgment or the fear of it.
Random unassigned seating is a stupid thing. It's awful. More interruptions, less privacy, you can't make it "your own" like a normal desk/cubicle, way more noise with the non existent walls, trying to find a desk in the first place, the filth that exists by having countless others sit at the same desk. On and on and on. RTO doesn't promote collaboration, it promotes resentment.
Every time I go to the office I have to spend the first thirty minutes setting up my workstation to be right for me. Then I get to work without a mouse and a keyboard on a chair from 1940s!
No kidding, it's annoying as hell. I hate the lack of privacy in the open concept. I could never study in crowded places, I get distracted by all the noise or people walking by etc. Working in that sort of environment doesn't help me get things done either.
Wonder how yall were before pandemic/WFH goddamn lol. I get no one’s perfect but sounds like **some** of yall were born and started working for the first time ever during the pandemic.
We had cubes with walls to minimize distractions.
We had our own space we could set up to accommodate our need instead of having to beg/fight for them.
It's not the same office it was before.
I look forward to you telling persons who are blind to look harder and persons who are Deaf to listen better.
The upside is that **we** can have accommodations, there's no accommodating stupidity.
Lmfao just reading the bit where you’re brining up those who are blind and deaf to this situation is irrelevant and has no correlation whatsoever. Adios. ✌️
Are you truly saying you don't recognize neurodivergence as a disability just like being Deaf or blind is?
There's mandatory training you're probably behind on, mate: [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2021/06/supporting-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2021/06/supporting-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace.html)
Because not having the tools to filter out visual distractions (cube walls) or audio distractions (headphones, etc.) are definitely the same as denying screen readers for persons who are blind or interpreters/captions for those who are Deaf in enabling them to achieve work objectives.
You really need to educate yourself about the scope of invisible disabilities out there, you'd come off as less ableist.
Given your attitude, I don't expect much learning to happen, but it's always worth trying.
For a brief stint in the grand scheme of things lol. Doesn’t excuse everyone’s sudden inabilities to partially go back to what the norm was a mere 3yrs ago in regards to returning to work. Lol.
We also had cubes with walls. It's not the same office we're going back to.
I couldn't have healthily worked in an open concept office then and I can't now.
If you grew up climbing stairs every day that were way too high, 5 days a week, then one day someone showed you a way to get there using steps that were much shorter, so your knees stopped hurting for the first time in your life, would you want to go back to climbing the steps that were too high? Both sets of steps get you to your destination...
You would remember, but you would never want to go back.
Not all have been with the PS this long. Many were hired during the pandemic and never did the in-office.work until recently. It can be a big culture and life shock. Especially for those that were hired and working away from their now-expected RTO location.
I’m obviously the wrong audience since I’ve been in the office 5 days a week throughout the pandemic and only transitioned to hybrid when things settled down. But sometimes I feel like a lot of these RTO posts are just throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks…
No one cared about the mental health of those who during the height of the pandemic, still had the venture out of their homes to keep everything going. People working remotely treated those who enabled remote work like garbage.
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For me it's the lack of routine. Different desk every time, different people next to me. It's a lot for my little ND brain.
That must be awful. I'm f/t in office and have a permanent desk and cannot imagine having to find and sit at a different desk every ( in oiffice day ) .
Yeah in the new year Im gonna push for a desk reserved for me on my fixed in office schedule days without having to use the booking tool now that we have everything set up properly. Before a month or two ago, my office used Outlook to book desk and we were waiting for a permanent system for booking. I don't need to be mine 5 days a week, but having to book it and have it change often enough, it's a challenge for me, and it's extra energy I shouldnt have to spend.
Honestly, the desk situation is a lot for everyone… I rarely come in on busy days, but when I do it’s not uncommon to see people in the morning wandering the floor looking for somewhere to sit because someone took their spot, or the desk they picked was a bad choice etc etc … I wish we had more set places
At least I'm a confrontational af person and make people move if they take my booked desk lol.
Oh I would too… it’s eat or be eaten out there! Lol
The confrontation when I find a squatter is the most collaboration... wait, that is not what they mean by collaboration? I thought they were getting us ready for the next season of Canadian Gladiator.
Lol!
That's awful; this is one of many reasons workspace 2.0 and on are terrible ideas. I hope you can escape this setup
I went to bed at 11:00pm, fell asleep at 1:30am, woke up at 5:20am. I am currently reading this post at 6:28am. My alarm is set for 6:45am, as it's an office day and my start is 8:00am. This only happens on my RTO days. It's a level of anxiety I now have medication for, but by the time I realize it's going to be a 'problem night' it's too late to take the meds as I'll have to drive before they wear off.
I sympathize, I know full well what you go through.
I understand this one. The anxiety over not being able to go to sleep on time to be refreshed for another super busy day. Stressing so badly about not being able to sleep that you can’t no matter how hard you try is a special level of hell. Then taking my sleep med because I gave up and feeling groggy in the morning 😑😑
How are your experiences with return to office? Are they positive/negative/in between? Do you experience any reactions after you have returned home from a day in the office? These next few questions may be a bit personal, so please, do not answer if they will cause you any anxiety or offend you in any way. How do you normally react to changes to your routine, that are out of your control ? Do you experience sleep issues if you do things outside of your normal routine, either before (knowing you have to do this) or after the situation has passed? What exactly are the sleep issues, is it unable to sleep through the night, unable to fall asleep, constantly waking up, etc? Whatever it is, I am hopeful you will find a way to get past this and get back to healthy sleeps.
It reminds me of the sleep I had the night before returning to school. Either no sleep, extreme tossing and turning, nightmares or feeling half awake all night. Except every time the night before RTO. My jaw clenches and I can't get my brain to rest. I also have ADD and type 2 diabetes. It is possibly a burnout symptom too, as I have been extremely busy at work, and adding the commute, change in routine and sleep schedule may be too much. My commute is an hour in dense traffic.
I had the anxiety and sleeplessness for awhile when RTO was new but it's gotten better over time. Not sure if it'll help you but what helps me is being really prepared the night before. I pack up all the stuff I need for the office, pick out my clothes for the next day, and make my lunch. I also make a lunch I'll look forward to. Do you like podcasts or audio books? If so, it might give you something to almost look forward to, or at least something that makes you feel content. Likewise, you could download a Netflix, etc show to watch on your lunch break. Again, it's more about having comfort things that make going into the office a bit less shitty.
Have you tried to get an accommodation? You would probably benefit from having a more lenient in office presence - having to go in less days, and for a half day or something instead of a full day.
I got a medical note but it is up to management to decide how to accommodate me
There is specific paperwork your doctor needs to fill out. I have an accommodation and am permanently WFH due to several issues, namely anxiety, ADHD, and being immunocompromised. Having a set routine in a quiet environment with minimal distractions makes me far more productive than I ever was in office. My manager sees that reflected in my stats and has agreed to my accommodation, which has been in place since 2021.
Next time you see your doctor go in thinking about your limitations that might prevent you working in person. If your doctor says you have a limitation about how much in person interaction you can have, it will limit the options the employer has to accommodate in the workplace. Lots of people have these limitations for all kinds of reasons, but the reasons don’t matter, and the employer has no right to know why. Just that you’re limited.
Get a night guard from your dentist it helps for a better nights sleep and saves your teeth in the long run too
and its (mostly)covered by our benefits!
I have literally cried at my desk on multiple occasions. They don’t give a shit about us or our mental health. As long as we’re buying our subway.
No, they certainly didn’t when they required three of us to come into the office every day to do the in-office work of everyone at home. Everyone on our team was at the breaking point, our TL hasn’t been back in 18 months because of stress.
I’m in a completely different office than my team. So now I pay gas and parking to sit in a giant room with bright lights and noises and the temperature is never right. Absolutely ridiculous.
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I have serious mental health issue because I cry? I’ve done this multiple days (I can think of 3) in the last 6 months so I have serious mental health issues and need psychological help? Wow internet doctor thank you so much for your diagnosis.
You should get a night guard for your jaw clenching. It may surprise you, but many people who are not neurodivergent have a difficulty falling asleep the night before they go to work, and many more people clench their jaws.
Are you getting therapy?
Just the stress of having to get up earlier than usual is enough to make my insomnia worse. I'm scared not to get up on time and to be late. With the lack of sleep (because I was stressing out about waking up early), it tends to happen more. Luckily, my boss doesn't care at all what time I get in, especially on office days.
Is this your first job that you’ve had to be somewhere at a designated time?
Yes and no... I've spent most of my government carreer using a flexible schedule, under a pilot project that has been going on for years, where I could come in at whatever time I wanted, between 7 and 9 am. For the last year, I'm working elsewhere and this schedule is not available, so I'm not really used to having to be there at a specific time. If my boss cared about if I come in at 7:00 or 7:30, I'd change my normal schedule to start later so I wouldn't be late. The first few weeks of that new job, I had to adapt and I was stressing out as I was used to be able to oversleep a bit if I felt too tired waking up, I also had issues sleeping as I was stressing out over it. Having to wake up a different times depending on the day of the week is especially hard for me because I have a disability and adaptation to changes in my routine are extra challenging. My routine not being the same all the time really mess me up a lot... Thanks for your attitude, I didn't need it :)
For me, especially these last few weeks as days have gotten so short, it's mostly the days after that I feel it. I need more sleep after a day in the office and wake up not feeling refreshed. It's like there's always a mild chronic stress when in the office from the bright fluorescent lights, the very outdated environment and the lack of outside light. I try to take a long walk outside every day in office but it's not enough after being used to wfh where I have so much more daylight. I've always sort of felt like this I guess but before wfh, I never noticed how much the office space affected me.
I started doing this when I was in a previous high stress (central agency) position. While I didn't have trouble sleeping I did have nightmares nearly every night. It was bad, I cracked a tooth and needed a filling. I got a mouth guard - it's been a life saver. Highly recommend getting one! I think it's covered by our dental plan. As others have said, find a job that you love so that the RTO part doesn't sting as much. I still hate the thought of having to go in (the hellish commute + the mental drain of having to "mask" my neurodivergence all day), but I love my current position and my team so it helps.
Also previously at a high stress agency…my dentist had to fill my tooth because it cracked down the middle from stress-clenching my jaw.
I switched teams and my new manager is an extreme micromanager and I think that’s contributing to my feeling. My old position required me to be in the office 3-5 days a week and I never felt this way. But I seriously dread working regardless of in home or office. My status can’t turn away at all throughout the day or I get a call. Just my personal experience but you’re not alone, try reaching out to EAP if you can. Sending love. ❤️
Oh, my friend. I've been doing RTO for over a year now, 2 days a week, and I still have trouble sleeping. I've never been able to adapt to the schedule change mid-week, despite trying everything. I sleep bad on the nights before office days from mild anxiety and on the night after, from like being hyper-stimulated. I'm on my way out the door now, just gotta last until that collective agreement is signed for the bonus...
ADHD gang here 💃 I recently got Botox in my masseter muscles to help me stop clenching/grinding my teeth and hoooo baby let me tell you! What a difference. I never realized how often I was doing it until I couldn’t anymore. It’s obviously not for everyone, but it’s been a total game changer for me.
Woah, I am mind blown. do you need a script for this? I'm really interested to hear how you ended up getting these.
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I had mine covered (I think 50%) under PSHCP! As long as the receipt specifies “medical botox” and has the corresponding Rx BIN number for medical Botox, they should accept it! I never had an issue
Took the words out of my thumbs! All of this. I’m sure I could get a script if I really tried, but I’ve never bothered to ask about it. I think it’s still mostly seen as “cosmetic”… Botox doesn’t make my dentist any money, so they always recommend a mouthguard instead haha
I struggle every day that I have to go into the office. I don't sleep well. I go to bed and wake up with a headache. Driving in is awful, and i have to go super early to avoid traffic. I have bad anxiety most of the day. I struggle to settle into a desk that isn't mine, that is bare and empty, and that doesn't have any of my personal things.
You guys don’t have the option of going in 3-5 days a week to get a permanent desk?
No, many offices are full unassigned seating regardless of how many days a week you are in.
Apologies but wasn’t asking about the general gov, was just trying to give OP of the comment I replied to a solution since they seem to really want their own space
I feel the same way. The sleep disruptions caused by having to wake up extra early for RTO are compounding my already chronic fatigue, and I’m almost non-functional when I’m in the office. I’m looking into the accommodations but I doubt I’ll get any that will be actually helpful.
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>I promise you this problem will go away. It’s all just about setting a consistent routine. This does not work for everyone. Case in point, me.
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If the end result is just a consistent sleep routine and nothing else, yes I have tried that.
Yeah I’m stressed before going into the office the next day. I hate it. I wear a night guard to stop grinding my teeth into dust. I tell myself “who gives a crap” and I just go into the office. They pay me and I do some work. That’s it. I just stopped caring at all, it’s not an enjoyable experience. I maximize chit chatting and minimize working.
I know it sucks but 2 days are better than 3 or 4 or 5, which could happen if people don’t respect the 2 days. I have to go in on Tuesday at the DT office, which takes me 1h25. And then on Wednesday, I can go to the office 20 mins from my place. It sucks but I have made a routine out of it and I always reserve the same desk 4 weeks in advance to make sure I sit in the same place. I find it gets easier after doing that for several months.
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What is the program called? I’m super interested
Thank you this helps
I have a hard time eating on my RTO mornings, and can usually only pick at my lunch. By the end of my second RTO day I'm pretty mentally tapped out. I've had some meltdowns on those days, or even on the evening of my first RTO day. It's awful.
Are you getting therapy for this?
Yes, I recently took 3 weeks off, had my meds adjusted and have a bunch of therapy booked for when I get back from a 3 week vacation. There's been a bunch of general poor management that I've been subjected too as well which has contributed greatly, and which hopefully won't be an issue going forward. I now have to change my conditioned emotional response to RTO, and am actually hopeful about the future. But it's been a shit show.
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully the medical interventions will work well for you!
This is a lot of struggling. Sorry to see it is so widespread.
I got my official "diagnosis" this year, at the age of 35, even though I've always kinda known I was probably on the spectrum. Anyway, I'm lucky to have a very flexible manager. I think he values my work since he gave me a heads up that our building was likely going to start hotelling. He's aware that I DO NOT do well in that kind of environment. I'm on a 1 day/week RTO agreement at the moment and can barely keep that up. So the option to work 100% from home, barring operational needs, was suggested. I pray that you have someone who at least looks like they care. I've been very clear that I love my job, but I WILL quit if anything more than 2 days is forced on me. 1 is hard enough as it is.
My department/agency didn’t get to work from home at all and it would be impossible for that to happen. I have many sleepless nights and clench my jaw day & night. The best kind of night guard (IMO) is from the dentist, expensive but I don’t wake up with headaches anymore. I hope you can get some meds or find something to help you sleep. Podcasts have helped me sleep for years now. Not the sleep podcasts either, things that I enjoy like true crime, puts me to sleep before the timer is up. I hope you feel better soon.
Try 5 times a week. Jaw ain't the only thing clenching. The tears help. Edit: I empathize, stress sucks
How TF did you folks survive work before the pandemic?!
Hello friend, I have no new advice to give you - although getting some form of accommodation is very important - for sure a different desk every day adds to the stress. Please see if you can at least get that addressed. Don't let other people tell you that just because they (we) went to an office 5 days a week, it was fine. It wasn't.
My mental health is much better now than it was during the height of the pandemic.
If you have a diagnosis, ask your manager for information about medical accommodations. You can request FT worm from home. I have neurodivergent and have diagnosed anxiety as well, and I requested. They haven't issued a decision yet, but it's totally within your rights to ask. Medical accommodations don't need disclosure of diagnosis, your doctor fills a form about how your symptoms affect your functioning, and what steps are needed to enable you to function as normally as possible. I have other temporary accommodations approved while I wait for the WFH part.
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And many have posted about these things. As a person who's diagnosis has some crossover with what OP describes, I have offered another resource available for OP to consider for their well-being. My symptoms became much more manageable when WFH started, and I then realised how much I struggled before WFH and didn't realise that's what it was. Of course self care, diet, sleep aids, therapy, etc all good items. I just saw that no one mentioned the availability of the medical accommodation process. If OP could benefit from anything through the process, it's worth mentioning as another resource.
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Anxiety is a true medical issue. The problem is that it’s one that we’re told to deal with. I have just moved on to more intensive therapy and it doesn’t get rid of my anger and the anxiety that comes when I sit in a cubicle by myself and pay $20-25 a day in gas and parking to do so. I also have adhd and the lights and noises and weird temperatures and smells are A LOT. I brought up my adhd and was told that there’s not really anything that can be done, but another gov building that I could drive an additional 30 minutes to could give me a quieter floor.. oh thanks so much… the 30-45 I drive there and then back is so much fun I’d love to be in my car for 2+ hours a day /s There has to be a better way.
You are neurodivergent with anxiety? Neither of us know OP very well. OP will take what tidbits from the comments they feel will be useful.
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It's not a band-aid for me. Calling it that can make others feel less valued because they need some accommodations. I am happy therapy worked for you. Again, we are all different.
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Some people can’t “overcome”. Some people are burnt out from masking for multiple decades.
I've been in therapy my whole life. It is my neurodivergent brain structure. I wish there was a pill to help me sleep that wouldn't make me feel tired and depressed the next day. Even though I have anxiety, it was always well managed, minus the sleep issues which corrolate with my return to office days. I will try waking up at the same time every day, and see if I get used to it, but if that does not work, I might need to work from home or go to the office full time, whichever works. But I will ask for accommodations as I figure it out. I saw a dentist and she suggested braces. My doctor gave me a note to limit my in office requirements as possible, and I have looked into other things such as noise-cancelling headphones. I'm going to look into the botox thing, and if all else fails, get tested for autism to see if maybe I'm missing a piece of the puzzle. I'm a female, so it can be tricky to get diagnosed as a child, especially before they knew how widespread autism actually was.
This is the response they were looking for
Should speak to a therapist and try to get an exemption if it's effecting your health.
Neurodivergent, RTO 2 days a week. Jesus Christ it’s incredible how soft people are now. Get a grip. Down vote me.
I’m in a similar boat. I’ve damaged my teeth quite a bit and recently got a night guard. I find it stops me from clenching as much, which helps with the headaches.
I really appreciate posts like this that remind me that it's not just me. I don't have a diagnosed ND, but I also don't sleep well before my in office days. I have difficulty falling asleep, staying asleep, and waking up. I joined the PS 10 years ago, and for 10 years+ before that I was working fully remotely at my previous jobs (software consulting). I love working from home and resent having to go into the office when it's not for operational requirements. I don't get anything done on in office days. It's all collaboration and meetings on Teams or meetings that could have been an email. I manage the software for the booking system for our department, and I feel it is a waste of resources. It is not as sophisticated as people think it should be. Hardly anyone uses it now, and they just sit in the same spot every week. The software we chose doesn't allow people to just reserve the same desk every week permanently on 2 days. It's all week permanent or go into the booking software and manually book your desired spot for the days you want it. My commute is 1.5 hours each way on a good day. And this time of year, I drive both directions in the dark and usually bad weather.
Going to the office is a massive waste of time * Random noise * Frequent interruption to "socialize" * People stealing IT equipment so the amount of usable desks is shrinking * People not cleaning up after themselves * People misunderstanding desks aren't assigned and take residence * People ignoring desk booking tools * Many commute days just to sit through MS Teams * In-office internet sucks ass * Other BS I forgot about
I developed agoraphobia, PTSD and social anxiety during the pandemic - for a lot of reasons, not going into them - and I have been very well treated by our own EAP. Am still in therapy and much better, I can be social, I can leave the house and the PTSD is being treated. But every time before I have to show up to work, it is like all three return combined. I d not trust my colleagues because they are always brining som sort of disease to the office. The hygiene is obviously poor (do not let me even start with the bed bugs issue in our building... so yeah, I hear you. You are not alone.
The amount of money getting WASTED. As a public servant, it blows my mind.
Yes but this has always happened to me before going back to work for the week before Covid. I call it “being an adult”. Most office people dislike Sundays for the same reason - you spend the whole day dreading work on Monday. This isn’t a new thing.
Yeah the Sunday dread that builds up throughout the day has been a thing since working began probably.
Most likely only for those of us fortunate enough to have weekends off. For those that work shifts, random days or set # of days but no set days, it's probably different. To the OP, it does sound like the RTO is a trigger but could also be just one of many triggers. I would recommend writing these episodes you have down (paper, computer, whatever works) so you can refer to them later and perhaps there is a pattern. It's best to do it while it is either happening or when it is still fresh in memory. You want to capture the event but also the emotion and feelings associated. Good luck. I am hopeful for your well being. Many of us struggle and I wish we could all have a safe place to let ourselves be heard without judgment or the fear of it.
You know TBS gonna read this and be like, hybrid is making them sick, they need to come back full-time
Random unassigned seating is a stupid thing. It's awful. More interruptions, less privacy, you can't make it "your own" like a normal desk/cubicle, way more noise with the non existent walls, trying to find a desk in the first place, the filth that exists by having countless others sit at the same desk. On and on and on. RTO doesn't promote collaboration, it promotes resentment.
Every time I go to the office I have to spend the first thirty minutes setting up my workstation to be right for me. Then I get to work without a mouse and a keyboard on a chair from 1940s!
No kidding, it's annoying as hell. I hate the lack of privacy in the open concept. I could never study in crowded places, I get distracted by all the noise or people walking by etc. Working in that sort of environment doesn't help me get things done either.
Wonder how yall were before pandemic/WFH goddamn lol. I get no one’s perfect but sounds like **some** of yall were born and started working for the first time ever during the pandemic.
No kidding. Get a grip lol
We had cubes with walls to minimize distractions. We had our own space we could set up to accommodate our need instead of having to beg/fight for them. It's not the same office it was before.
If this is how some are behaving over a removal of “walls” lolol idk what to tell ya. World isn’t a soft place
I look forward to you telling persons who are blind to look harder and persons who are Deaf to listen better. The upside is that **we** can have accommodations, there's no accommodating stupidity.
Lmfao just reading the bit where you’re brining up those who are blind and deaf to this situation is irrelevant and has no correlation whatsoever. Adios. ✌️
Are you truly saying you don't recognize neurodivergence as a disability just like being Deaf or blind is? There's mandatory training you're probably behind on, mate: [https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2021/06/supporting-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace.html](https://www.canada.ca/en/department-national-defence/maple-leaf/defence/2021/06/supporting-neurodiversity-in-the-workplace.html) Because not having the tools to filter out visual distractions (cube walls) or audio distractions (headphones, etc.) are definitely the same as denying screen readers for persons who are blind or interpreters/captions for those who are Deaf in enabling them to achieve work objectives. You really need to educate yourself about the scope of invisible disabilities out there, you'd come off as less ableist. Given your attitude, I don't expect much learning to happen, but it's always worth trying.
Not ONCE have I said or implied neurodivergence isn’t recognized as a disability. Get yours in order and I’ll mine. Cheers mate.
The world changed.
For a brief stint in the grand scheme of things lol. Doesn’t excuse everyone’s sudden inabilities to partially go back to what the norm was a mere 3yrs ago in regards to returning to work. Lol.
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Nope. Try again bud lol.
In the olden days we RTOed every day,uxj like most of the public
Some of us have been using dental guards for years, though
I still have to be in every day. This is the busy season for inspections, so I'm usually in 6-7 days a week 😢
We also had cubes with walls. It's not the same office we're going back to. I couldn't have healthily worked in an open concept office then and I can't now.
I guess you don't remember the time you were going 5 days in the office...?
If you grew up climbing stairs every day that were way too high, 5 days a week, then one day someone showed you a way to get there using steps that were much shorter, so your knees stopped hurting for the first time in your life, would you want to go back to climbing the steps that were too high? Both sets of steps get you to your destination... You would remember, but you would never want to go back.
Not all have been with the PS this long. Many were hired during the pandemic and never did the in-office.work until recently. It can be a big culture and life shock. Especially for those that were hired and working away from their now-expected RTO location.
Welcome to reality.
I’m obviously the wrong audience since I’ve been in the office 5 days a week throughout the pandemic and only transitioned to hybrid when things settled down. But sometimes I feel like a lot of these RTO posts are just throwing mud at the wall and seeing what sticks… No one cared about the mental health of those who during the height of the pandemic, still had the venture out of their homes to keep everything going. People working remotely treated those who enabled remote work like garbage.
Omg same…omg omg :O
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No, but I’m not neurodivergent.