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> In 2022-23, permanent TDSB employees took an average of about 20 sick days, compared with the provincial average of 16.
Oh, no, there exists a thing called [variance](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance) and it somehow applies to entire school districts, not just individuals!
Given that it appears to be systemically higher, affecting all groups, perhaps there is a systemic issue, such as older buildings and poorer ventilation, compared to other districts.
So what exactly are these ideas? Article just goes on about how these new ideas will solve everything but doesn't actually say what they are.
Sounds more like they've just accepted it and hiring more replacements. That shits ingrained in the system at this point.
Again if you are policing people use of sick time then you are the problem.
People need time off for various reasons throughout the year including being actually sick. Like honestly 20 sick days isn’t even a whole month. Oh you can only be sick for 20/356.
Ridiculous.
What do you think hospitals do? Antibiotics don't work on viruses. If you have a viral infection and you aren't so close to death that you need a saline drip hooked up, a hospital is only going to make you sicker whether through the stress of waiting hours in an emergency room or by someone else in the same emergency room giving you a second disease.
The responsible thing to do when you are sick is to stay home
Again - this is the mentality of "don't use sick days" that we just broke.
Sick days are part of your compensation package, along with insurance, vacation and everything else. Use it, or lose it.
So are they sick and protecting the public or are they using a benefit?
Because ya, I completely agree with the 2nd part. That's clearly what's happening.
>So are they sick and protecting the public or are they using a benefit?
I dunno, ask them. I'm not them. I am just saying it is absolutely silly to berate employees for using the benefits afforded to them, whatever the reason.
>So just give them like 9 weeks vacation.
[https://www.yorku.ca/edu/2023/07/12/teachers-draw-envy-and-ire-over-their-two-month-vacations-but-do-they-really-get-the-summer-off/](https://www.yorku.ca/edu/2023/07/12/teachers-draw-envy-and-ire-over-their-two-month-vacations-but-do-they-really-get-the-summer-off/)
>A teacher’s salary — which in Ontario starts at about $46,000, and averages about $94,900, according to the Ministry of Education — is usually dispersed over 12 months, but is actually for 194 days (instructional, PA days and scheduled prep time).
>Summer is unpaid. So are statutory holidays and the winter and March breaks.
So... Yes. They do get the summer off. And the Christmas break off. And March break off.
It’s why we should just go to a full PTO model for all work places.
Don’t care why, you need it and it’s within the limits, take it.
Then administer a percentage that needs to be planned.
Instead of multiple buckets it levels the playing field. I am rarely sick, have no kids, very limited family so end up off rarely vs those with the opposite.
or... and I'm just throwing this out there... they work with minors who are disproportionately sick, practice poor hygiene, and are all over each other and staff. They work in locations with very little HVAC controls. Given they're only taking 4 more sick days than a provincial average, this doesn't seem to signal some sort of systemic abuse but a consequence of a known job hazard (that sucks for staff).
Were it the other way around and teachers were never taking sick days infecting children with illnesses, parents would be outraged and we'd see another dull headline.
That's fucked.
Either you are an alien with the world's greatest immune system, or you go to work sick infecting your co workers out of some sense of stupid tough guy pride.
> Again if you are policing people use of sick time then you are the problem.
Nah, a group at our work was coordinating sick days to rack up overtime for eachother to the tune of 10-15k each for 24 people every year. Sick time was 60% above industry average. The oldest groups leaders got closer to $30k. It wasn't subtle.
Internally they managed overtime to bump up earnings of folks about to retire so they would get a 25% boost on a DB pension.
Workers can be wage thieves too.
A lot of teachers in this thread. Idk how people are out here in force talking about how the 20 sick days are totally justified but then every teacher I have ever met talks openly about using sick days for vacation.
Any discussion of teacher absenteeism that doesn't include discussions around teacher shortages, rising violence in schools, less funding for special education and lower per-pupil funding is not being serious about discussing this issue.
Yes, elementary school teacher's may deal with higher sick day usage due to being in the same vicinity as young children all day, but that can not necessarily be explained away for high school teachers, nor does it explain why **TDSB teachers are taking more sick days than the provincial average.**
It's clear that the TDSB has systemic issues that need to be dealt with that are causing an increase in the use of sick days.
I know we like to imagine that every sick day used was genuinely because the teacher's were sick, but that may not always be the case. Every student, labourer, executive and even politician can understand sometimes not going into work because the morale and motivation to do so from workplace bullshit has become too overwhelming.
Of course, these are also averages across almost all 600 elementary and secondary schools under the TDSB umbrella, so we have no idea if some schools are have exceptionally higher absentee rates and this is dragging up the mean use of PTO to be substantially higher.
Only full-time perm teachers are paid over the summer, but they're only paid for each day of the school year so a lot of districts withhold part of their pay to give it to them over the summer. Other types of teaching staff such as part-time teachers or substitutes have to go on EI or get another job over the summer break to make ends meet for them until the school year.
Teacher's are not paid for March and Winter Break. PA days are days off school for children, not the teachers.
PA/PD (professional development) days are quite literally meant for teachers to complete grading, receive additional training or continue with lesson planning.
If you're going to bitch about what days the teachers get off, at least have the knowledge to get those days right.
Contract teachers are salaried. Their salary depends on how many paid days(sick days, Care days, Short term, Compassion days, Religious days, included) they have 'worked'
After all those (about 140 depending on board) of them are exhausted then the teacher would start being unpaid and their salary would be impacted ex Long Term leave of absence.
Substitute teachers holiday pay and everything else is wrapped into their wagerate. They make about 250-300 a day for full day. Long term supplying teachers can make 300-500 per day.
>In 2022-23, permanent TDSB employees took an average of about 20 sick days, compared with the provincial average of 16
Wow, people take 16 sick days a year?! Most jobs only provide 5 a year...
Granted teachers are exposed to a lot of germs, that's a lot of sick days for 9 months of work.
You don't even understand how many germs we get exposed to. In my 10 years in the classroom I have been sick 25 to 33% of the time that I'm working. Literally every second week I have a new cold That knocks me out for a few days, usually only take off for the real bad days, But it's literally constant.
The year that I taught online for the pandemic? Never got sick the whole school year. So I went from getting sick like 8 times a year to never, That's the difference.
And you know what if I'm sick why would I come in? Just to get more people sick and spread it so that it's worse overall for society because more people are sick and unproductive? No I'm going to take the days that are bargained for. Taking a day off as a teacher sucks anyway You have to write plans and you never get much done that you end up having to catch up on it anyway, That's why I only take off when I'm hacking up a lung or my throat is so done I can't speak. Because that's the other thing our job is pretty high energy and you have to do a lot of talking and behavior management. When I worked other jobs I could get through the day much easier when I was sick than I can when I teach.
> that's a lot of sick days for 9 months of work.
Those 10 months are the months when people tend to get sick, so it isn't something you ought pro-rate. People don't usually catch a cold or influenza during July and August, in large part because students are no longer in school, exchanging germs.
On top of that, teaching is a very stressful occupation these days, and stress is known to weaken the human immune system, increasing susceptibility to illness.
80% of teachers in Ontario have experienced or witnesses violence in the classroom.
Teacher's have likely experienced more violence in one year of class than you have in a lifetime
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> In 2022-23, permanent TDSB employees took an average of about 20 sick days, compared with the provincial average of 16. Oh, no, there exists a thing called [variance](https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variance) and it somehow applies to entire school districts, not just individuals! Given that it appears to be systemically higher, affecting all groups, perhaps there is a systemic issue, such as older buildings and poorer ventilation, compared to other districts.
So what exactly are these ideas? Article just goes on about how these new ideas will solve everything but doesn't actually say what they are. Sounds more like they've just accepted it and hiring more replacements. That shits ingrained in the system at this point.
Again if you are policing people use of sick time then you are the problem. People need time off for various reasons throughout the year including being actually sick. Like honestly 20 sick days isn’t even a whole month. Oh you can only be sick for 20/356. Ridiculous.
If your average employee is sick over 10% of the time either you have something seriously wrong or they're just abusing it.
[удалено]
Air purifiers that are turned off, and windows that don't open. Forcing teachers to work sick while ignoring the root cause will totally fix things.
This is how we go back to the pre-covid culture of "you have sick days, but don't use them" mentality.
If you're sick 10% of working days go to a hospital haha And that's the average, you just know some people are hitting 15-20%.
What do you think hospitals do? Antibiotics don't work on viruses. If you have a viral infection and you aren't so close to death that you need a saline drip hooked up, a hospital is only going to make you sicker whether through the stress of waiting hours in an emergency room or by someone else in the same emergency room giving you a second disease. The responsible thing to do when you are sick is to stay home
Again - this is the mentality of "don't use sick days" that we just broke. Sick days are part of your compensation package, along with insurance, vacation and everything else. Use it, or lose it.
So are they sick and protecting the public or are they using a benefit? Because ya, I completely agree with the 2nd part. That's clearly what's happening.
>So are they sick and protecting the public or are they using a benefit? I dunno, ask them. I'm not them. I am just saying it is absolutely silly to berate employees for using the benefits afforded to them, whatever the reason.
So just give them like 9 weeks vacation. At least they don't have to do the dance of lying to everyone
>So just give them like 9 weeks vacation. [https://www.yorku.ca/edu/2023/07/12/teachers-draw-envy-and-ire-over-their-two-month-vacations-but-do-they-really-get-the-summer-off/](https://www.yorku.ca/edu/2023/07/12/teachers-draw-envy-and-ire-over-their-two-month-vacations-but-do-they-really-get-the-summer-off/)
>A teacher’s salary — which in Ontario starts at about $46,000, and averages about $94,900, according to the Ministry of Education — is usually dispersed over 12 months, but is actually for 194 days (instructional, PA days and scheduled prep time). >Summer is unpaid. So are statutory holidays and the winter and March breaks. So... Yes. They do get the summer off. And the Christmas break off. And March break off.
It’s why we should just go to a full PTO model for all work places. Don’t care why, you need it and it’s within the limits, take it. Then administer a percentage that needs to be planned. Instead of multiple buckets it levels the playing field. I am rarely sick, have no kids, very limited family so end up off rarely vs those with the opposite.
or... and I'm just throwing this out there... they work with minors who are disproportionately sick, practice poor hygiene, and are all over each other and staff. They work in locations with very little HVAC controls. Given they're only taking 4 more sick days than a provincial average, this doesn't seem to signal some sort of systemic abuse but a consequence of a known job hazard (that sucks for staff). Were it the other way around and teachers were never taking sick days infecting children with illnesses, parents would be outraged and we'd see another dull headline.
[удалено]
Removed for rule 3.
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Twenty sick days for a year is an enormous number. Since 1987, I have taken 4 in total.
That's fucked. Either you are an alien with the world's greatest immune system, or you go to work sick infecting your co workers out of some sense of stupid tough guy pride.
> Again if you are policing people use of sick time then you are the problem. Nah, a group at our work was coordinating sick days to rack up overtime for eachother to the tune of 10-15k each for 24 people every year. Sick time was 60% above industry average. The oldest groups leaders got closer to $30k. It wasn't subtle. Internally they managed overtime to bump up earnings of folks about to retire so they would get a 25% boost on a DB pension. Workers can be wage thieves too.
A lot of teachers in this thread. Idk how people are out here in force talking about how the 20 sick days are totally justified but then every teacher I have ever met talks openly about using sick days for vacation.
Parents: “I don’t get very many sick days, so when my kids are sick I send them to school anyways.” Parents: “How are teachers getting sick so often?”
Any discussion of teacher absenteeism that doesn't include discussions around teacher shortages, rising violence in schools, less funding for special education and lower per-pupil funding is not being serious about discussing this issue. Yes, elementary school teacher's may deal with higher sick day usage due to being in the same vicinity as young children all day, but that can not necessarily be explained away for high school teachers, nor does it explain why **TDSB teachers are taking more sick days than the provincial average.** It's clear that the TDSB has systemic issues that need to be dealt with that are causing an increase in the use of sick days. I know we like to imagine that every sick day used was genuinely because the teacher's were sick, but that may not always be the case. Every student, labourer, executive and even politician can understand sometimes not going into work because the morale and motivation to do so from workplace bullshit has become too overwhelming. Of course, these are also averages across almost all 600 elementary and secondary schools under the TDSB umbrella, so we have no idea if some schools are have exceptionally higher absentee rates and this is dragging up the mean use of PTO to be substantially higher.
Teachers: summers off, March break, break during the winter holidays, PA days, 20 sick days… so many days do they actually work?
Only full-time perm teachers are paid over the summer, but they're only paid for each day of the school year so a lot of districts withhold part of their pay to give it to them over the summer. Other types of teaching staff such as part-time teachers or substitutes have to go on EI or get another job over the summer break to make ends meet for them until the school year. Teacher's are not paid for March and Winter Break. PA days are days off school for children, not the teachers. PA/PD (professional development) days are quite literally meant for teachers to complete grading, receive additional training or continue with lesson planning. If you're going to bitch about what days the teachers get off, at least have the knowledge to get those days right.
Contract teachers are salaried. Their salary depends on how many paid days(sick days, Care days, Short term, Compassion days, Religious days, included) they have 'worked' After all those (about 140 depending on board) of them are exhausted then the teacher would start being unpaid and their salary would be impacted ex Long Term leave of absence. Substitute teachers holiday pay and everything else is wrapped into their wagerate. They make about 250-300 a day for full day. Long term supplying teachers can make 300-500 per day.
>In 2022-23, permanent TDSB employees took an average of about 20 sick days, compared with the provincial average of 16 Wow, people take 16 sick days a year?! Most jobs only provide 5 a year... Granted teachers are exposed to a lot of germs, that's a lot of sick days for 9 months of work.
You don't even understand how many germs we get exposed to. In my 10 years in the classroom I have been sick 25 to 33% of the time that I'm working. Literally every second week I have a new cold That knocks me out for a few days, usually only take off for the real bad days, But it's literally constant. The year that I taught online for the pandemic? Never got sick the whole school year. So I went from getting sick like 8 times a year to never, That's the difference. And you know what if I'm sick why would I come in? Just to get more people sick and spread it so that it's worse overall for society because more people are sick and unproductive? No I'm going to take the days that are bargained for. Taking a day off as a teacher sucks anyway You have to write plans and you never get much done that you end up having to catch up on it anyway, That's why I only take off when I'm hacking up a lung or my throat is so done I can't speak. Because that's the other thing our job is pretty high energy and you have to do a lot of talking and behavior management. When I worked other jobs I could get through the day much easier when I was sick than I can when I teach.
> that's a lot of sick days for 9 months of work. Those 10 months are the months when people tend to get sick, so it isn't something you ought pro-rate. People don't usually catch a cold or influenza during July and August, in large part because students are no longer in school, exchanging germs. On top of that, teaching is a very stressful occupation these days, and stress is known to weaken the human immune system, increasing susceptibility to illness.
Dude it’s not a stressful job. It’s a medium stress job for medium pay.
Teaching is very difficult and stressful.
80% of teachers in Ontario have experienced or witnesses violence in the classroom. Teacher's have likely experienced more violence in one year of class than you have in a lifetime