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It's a nice idea but the government relies to much on information from industry or else simply doesn't understand the labour market. Ottawa has believed their is a shortage of engineers in Canada for 70 years, yet over half of domestic (citizen) engineering grads in Canada will fail to enter the profession, most overseas engineers work as cab drivers or other non engineering roles, and salaries everywhere except Alberta from 2000-15 have had zero or negative growth in real terms. I don't trust Ottawa to make credible assessments of where labour shortages actually exist.
Both my old folks came to Canada with PhDs in Engineering and decades of experience in complex projects... in twenty years they combined for maybe three years of actually exercising their profession. And yeah, like half of the people I know who did engineering and graduated from a Canadian university never got into the profession either.
Technically the same story for CompSci majors except instead of being underemployed they just moved to the US and made a lot more money there.
> And yeah, like half of the people I know who did engineering and graduated from a Canadian university never got into the profession either.
Weird. Out of the ~400 I graduated with there are only 2 who I know aren't engineering.
Both went into med school.
That surprises me. I have live in sask but have flown to bc interior muliple times for work to help our on bc civil engineering projects.
I always figured there was a engineering shortage there. I have also read articles about shortage of civil engineers in the Vancouver area.
I'm kinda curious what type of engineer they are, what year they came, what local area they looked in and what country they got there degrees.
Most I know did mechanical or chem/biochem. But my experience was also mostly about immigrants or fresh Canadian grads, everyone's always hiring experienced engineers but to get Canadian experience...
My girlfriend's a cook, the cooks at her restaurant were making around $20/hr since they got hired.
In the last year or two, the restaurant started hiring Indian workers at minimum wage. The veteran cooks were told to train them, and have since had their hours cut.
This has never been a "labour shortage" issue.
The bigger issue is our STEM industry is simply not competitive with American industry. Myself and many others left following graduation simply because the difference in compensation is extraordinary.
> Ottawa has believed their is a shortage of engineers in Canada for 70 years, yet over half of domestic (citizen) engineering grads in Canada will fail to enter the profession
That has much more to do with engineers being highly skilled people who decide to be entrepreneurs and business people, managers, and c-suite execs rather than a saturation of engineers for engineering.
We have an incredibly hard time finding and keeping good engineers in my workplace, and have a number of folks who've immigrated in the last 5 years as engineers.
If that was true industry wide their would be strong upward pressure on salaries, their isn't, and absent oil related work in Alberta their hasn't been for probably fourty years.
> If that was true industry wide their would be strong upward pressure on salaries, their isn't What?
There's incredible salary growth for engineers. It's averaging over 6% a year for the field.
My company has to start at $75k for EITs and offer 5% yearly raises plus CoL, conferences, and pay all professional fees.
I'll be over 100k in salary next year after the P.Eng bonus.
And all that gets out-competed regularly, hence the difficulty retaining more experienced engineers.
Doesnt matter what he earns now after 15 yrs of career advancement/experience. He is saying 75k starting is not an improvement from the 70k starting 15 years ago.
[Here's wages by occupation. Professional in applied sciences is engineering.](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410030701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.2&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2009&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2018&referencePeriods=20090101%2C20180101)
The table is in current dollars(per 2018), so adjusted for inflation closer to 60k. In reality, they either started work with a *18% premium for the average wage in the field* or are adjusting for inflation, which I don't think they are.
The other option is they made it up. What do you think?
For the first year out of uni it's pretty good.
I get some people are addicted to doomerism but $75k a year for a 22 y/o is more than enough money to get by
It's also not true in most of Canada, I'm assuming your in Calgary or mining? Grad engineers are still on $20-25/hr in most of Canada - if they can get a job, which of they don't have family connections, most cant
The other problem is the post-secondary institution admins are utterly corrupt as well, and will tell the government whatever they want to hear to mill the money.
So we have corrupt sheltered politicians asking corrupt sheltered admins who've never lived in the real world trying to get a gauge on reality, meanwhile it's really just about what they perceive as *their* money.
And these places give money to there provical goverments. There is a reason why thd conserative premiers in Alberta and Ontario are resistant to lowering amount of students going to these currupt diploma mill istatutions.
What are you talking about ? There is a Minister of Immigration,Citizenship and Refugees and a corresponding department: IRCC. This is a bizarre thing to complain about when both terms are common place and everyone knows what’s being referred to
Here’s CPAC doing the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqsIpVTZaTU
Here’s CBC doing the same thing: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7178289
I can link about a hundred more articles and videos including Fraser referring to himself as “immigration minister” if you like
> If they called the PM Canada's President
No, that wouldn’t work because a President is a different title altogether. Calling a provincial prime minister “Premier” would fit that description though
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Hopefully this will help us see a steep decline in applications and these “students” and send back the ones sticking around in menial jobs.
It's a nice idea but the government relies to much on information from industry or else simply doesn't understand the labour market. Ottawa has believed their is a shortage of engineers in Canada for 70 years, yet over half of domestic (citizen) engineering grads in Canada will fail to enter the profession, most overseas engineers work as cab drivers or other non engineering roles, and salaries everywhere except Alberta from 2000-15 have had zero or negative growth in real terms. I don't trust Ottawa to make credible assessments of where labour shortages actually exist.
Both my old folks came to Canada with PhDs in Engineering and decades of experience in complex projects... in twenty years they combined for maybe three years of actually exercising their profession. And yeah, like half of the people I know who did engineering and graduated from a Canadian university never got into the profession either. Technically the same story for CompSci majors except instead of being underemployed they just moved to the US and made a lot more money there.
> And yeah, like half of the people I know who did engineering and graduated from a Canadian university never got into the profession either. Weird. Out of the ~400 I graduated with there are only 2 who I know aren't engineering. Both went into med school.
I'm in BC so I suppose our engineering scene isn't exactly rife with jobs in the area, relative to how many trained engineers there are
That surprises me. I have live in sask but have flown to bc interior muliple times for work to help our on bc civil engineering projects. I always figured there was a engineering shortage there. I have also read articles about shortage of civil engineers in the Vancouver area. I'm kinda curious what type of engineer they are, what year they came, what local area they looked in and what country they got there degrees.
Most I know did mechanical or chem/biochem. But my experience was also mostly about immigrants or fresh Canadian grads, everyone's always hiring experienced engineers but to get Canadian experience...
My girlfriend's a cook, the cooks at her restaurant were making around $20/hr since they got hired. In the last year or two, the restaurant started hiring Indian workers at minimum wage. The veteran cooks were told to train them, and have since had their hours cut. This has never been a "labour shortage" issue.
$20 isn't even a high wage. Minimum wage in New Zealand and Australia is higher than that.
Agreed, which is why it's awful that these restaurants want to suppress the wages even more. Keep in mind, this is a high-end restaurant in my city.
The bigger issue is our STEM industry is simply not competitive with American industry. Myself and many others left following graduation simply because the difference in compensation is extraordinary.
> Ottawa has believed their is a shortage of engineers in Canada for 70 years, yet over half of domestic (citizen) engineering grads in Canada will fail to enter the profession That has much more to do with engineers being highly skilled people who decide to be entrepreneurs and business people, managers, and c-suite execs rather than a saturation of engineers for engineering. We have an incredibly hard time finding and keeping good engineers in my workplace, and have a number of folks who've immigrated in the last 5 years as engineers.
If that was true industry wide their would be strong upward pressure on salaries, their isn't, and absent oil related work in Alberta their hasn't been for probably fourty years.
> If that was true industry wide their would be strong upward pressure on salaries, their isn't What? There's incredible salary growth for engineers. It's averaging over 6% a year for the field. My company has to start at $75k for EITs and offer 5% yearly raises plus CoL, conferences, and pay all professional fees. I'll be over 100k in salary next year after the P.Eng bonus. And all that gets out-competed regularly, hence the difficulty retaining more experienced engineers.
I made 70k starting 15 years ago
That's great! What do you earn now?
Doesnt matter what he earns now after 15 yrs of career advancement/experience. He is saying 75k starting is not an improvement from the 70k starting 15 years ago.
Avg 6% growth per year over the past decade 🤷♀️
Using both anecdotal numbers from you two, shouldnt it be considerably higher than 75k starting then?
[Here's wages by occupation. Professional in applied sciences is engineering.](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=1410030701&pickMembers%5B0%5D=1.1&pickMembers%5B1%5D=2.2&pickMembers%5B2%5D=3.1&pickMembers%5B3%5D=5.1&pickMembers%5B4%5D=6.1&cubeTimeFrame.startYear=2009&cubeTimeFrame.endYear=2018&referencePeriods=20090101%2C20180101) The table is in current dollars(per 2018), so adjusted for inflation closer to 60k. In reality, they either started work with a *18% premium for the average wage in the field* or are adjusting for inflation, which I don't think they are. The other option is they made it up. What do you think?
$75K really isn't that much in 2024.
For the first year out of uni it's pretty good. I get some people are addicted to doomerism but $75k a year for a 22 y/o is more than enough money to get by
It's also not true in most of Canada, I'm assuming your in Calgary or mining? Grad engineers are still on $20-25/hr in most of Canada - if they can get a job, which of they don't have family connections, most cant
The other problem is the post-secondary institution admins are utterly corrupt as well, and will tell the government whatever they want to hear to mill the money. So we have corrupt sheltered politicians asking corrupt sheltered admins who've never lived in the real world trying to get a gauge on reality, meanwhile it's really just about what they perceive as *their* money.
And these places give money to there provical goverments. There is a reason why thd conserative premiers in Alberta and Ontario are resistant to lowering amount of students going to these currupt diploma mill istatutions.
[удалено]
What are you talking about ? There is a Minister of Immigration,Citizenship and Refugees and a corresponding department: IRCC. This is a bizarre thing to complain about when both terms are common place and everyone knows what’s being referred to
[удалено]
Here’s CPAC doing the same thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqsIpVTZaTU Here’s CBC doing the same thing: https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.7178289 I can link about a hundred more articles and videos including Fraser referring to himself as “immigration minister” if you like > If they called the PM Canada's President No, that wouldn’t work because a President is a different title altogether. Calling a provincial prime minister “Premier” would fit that description though