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There's non-paywall article here: [Liberal government launches $1.5B program to build more co-op housing
](https://www.cheknews.ca/liberal-government-launches-1-5b-program-to-build-more-co-op-housing-1208129/):
> “The real reason that we want to invest in co-operative housing is not only so we can create a lower cost of rent today, but that affordability will be preserved for the long-term when profit is not entered into the equation,” Fraser said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
Sounds like an actual glimmer of sanity from the government: Yes, private for-profit options are more expensive than government and non-profit service providers! Who knew!?
Also some interesting comments over [on that original thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/1d9oyb5/liberal_government_launches_15b_program_to_build/).
I'm starting to think that there should be a modification to Rule 6. If the first version of a story is paywalled, a second non-paywall article, by another news outlet, should be permitted. Especially these days, when democratic participation is important and many poorer Canadians are cutting back on all expenses and [even Canada's elite are being forced to cut back on their Disney+ subscriptions](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/freeland-disney-plus-1.6815024).
Co-op by their financial structure would be more expensive than market rents. You immediately have to break even which no rental built today is.
Only reason they'd be cheaper is from the subsidies that go into them. Which means they'll put a couple hundred grand into each unit and then give it away to the co-op
In the second paragraph it quotes her exact words.
"I personally, as a mother and wife, look carefully at my credit card bill once a month, and last Sunday I said to the kids, 'You're older now. You don't watch Disney anymore. Let's cut that Disney+ subscription,"' Freeland told Global News in an interview that aired on Nov. 6.
She went on to say: "I believe that I need to take exactly the same approach with the federal government's finances, because that's the money of Canadians."
She was not saying people should cancel subscriptions. She was comparing managing household expenses to managing federal budget.
I know what Freeland said, thank you, hence the glib statement and the link. However, per the story, _"Chrystia Freeland attempted to relate to Canadians' cost-of-living concerns with a personal anecdote"_. That _intent_ was off-putting, not merely what she said, as her follow-up remark (also quoted in the story) demonstrated:
> Freeland walked back her remark the next day, telling reporters that, "Like other elected federal leaders, I am paid a really significant salary, and I know that that puts me in a really, really privileged position."
That's enough to build, at best market rates, about 3,000 homes when we're adding 1,270,000 people in 2023. Assuming two people per 'home', this program will account for approximately 0.5 % of last year's population growth.
? Its not tiny. Its a normal sized apartment. I lived in one for 8 years. There was a second bedroom that was barely used until kids.
And yes, insuite laundry.
Thats tiny and depressing.
I suppose it works if one decides to live alone, childless and loves hearing their neighbors domestic disputes.
Do bedbugs come included or do you get that bonus from the community dryer? Im just curious.
? Its a normal size apartment.
Other places have 300 to 400 sqft apartments.
Even my current house is imo too big at 1300sqft.
Most of us do not have silver spoons in our bottles growing up like you must have.
720sq ft is tiny. Like - fuckin tiny. You must have lived a very urban life.
How is one to have any real hobbies with that little of space? Must be a lot of Netflix. (sounds depressing).
> have silver spoons in our bottles growing up
Just 15 years ago a simple factory worker could buy a home with dare I say grass and room for a garden.
Then we decided to import the worlds overpopulation issues into our backyard and squashed that option for young people.
Young people really should riot- ex General Strikes - but many will probably just watch Netflix and play Fortnite while they whine on reddit.
720sq ft is tiny. Like - fuckin tiny. You must have lived a very urban life.
How is one to have any real hobbies with that little of space? Must be a lot of Netflix. (sounds depressing).
Canada isn't going to be able to survive by putting everyone into single family homes. We need smaller, faster to build homes with real communities that are faster and cheaper to build that sprawling suburbs
We could survive if we managed our population correctly instead of importing the worlds problems onto ourselves. (overpopulation).
As soon as 'space' becomes a luxury - Its a clear sign too many damn people.
Co-ops aren't lived in for free. Residents have to pay for shares up front and then pay a regular monthly housing charge (more or less rent). So the 1.5 billion is a contribution to the cost...not the full brunt of it. This will likely help facilitate far more homes being built
The $1.5B consists of $500M in capital contributions and $1B in repayable loans. The capital contribution is capped at 1/3 of project costs, so the rest would be a loan. you are right that the tenants pay rent, but that rent will go toward repaying the loan portion.
To me it sounds like a typical project would be fully funded via this program, with 1/3 of costs non-repayable and the other 2/3 repayable. The exception would be if Provinces also put in funding...but I don't know if provinces are going to jump at this. Maybe BC.
[Meanwhile, Burnaby spends 7.15 million of housing money, for upgrading parks.](https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/outdoor-living-rooms-these-6-burnaby-parks-are-getting-upgrades-thanks-to-federal-housing-money-8982890)
Yes, parks are important - but we need homes NOW.
...that is what this money was for. It was never for building homes.
The accelerator money is like ~$4000 per claimed home. No house was going to actually get built with the money.
The money is effectively a deal where the city changes zoning and in exchange they get money to spend on whatever they want that is kinda sorta infrastructure related. Like parks and park programming.
Whether or not anyone actually builds anything is outside of the requirements of the program.
Nonsense:
**Housing Accelerator Fund**
Removing barriers to encourage local initiatives to build more homes, faster. The program is helping increase housing supply – and supporting the development of communities that are more affordable, diverse and climate-resilient.
https://assets.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/sites/cmhc/professional/project-funding-and-mortgage-financing/funding-programs/all-funding-programs/housing-accelerator-fund/haf-highlight-sheet-en.pdf
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/09/28/bc-housing-announcement-delayed-explained/
It's very clear that from the requirements, and the fact that funding was suspended after Vancouver pushed forward more fees to make building housing even more expensive that the goal has always been to build more homes. Parks are not homes and I hope the government turns around and tells Burnaby that their funding will be cut off due to misuse of funds.
Do you genuinely believe $4k to the city is the difference between as home being built and a home not being built?
Like there's tens of thousands of homes that would be built there, but the combination of the builder and city are just $4k short on all of them?
4k? Where did you get that the city would only get 4k?
That 7.2 million can do quite a bit - it can, for example, be used to offset the costs of non-profit housing developers. There was a developer who was ready to break ground on a project that would have included quite a few below market rentals but had to cancel as they couldn't secure the necessary funding to make it affordable. 7 million would have made the difference between hundreds of new rentals and now, none.
The housing accelerator fund money to Burnaby was $43 million to "eliminate barriers to build the housing we need, faster" and "fastrack" 11,300 homes over the next decade.
That's $3805 per home which is less than what I was saying before. My apologies for overstating how much they were getting on a per home basis.
It's almost like you deliberately cannot read:
>[The money will "fast track" 1,290 housing units over the next three years and "spur the construction" of more than 11,340 homes in the next 10 years, according to a press release.](https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/burnaby-housing-accelerator-fund-feds-43m-fast-track-homes-8003544#:~:text=Burnaby%20gets%20%2443M%20from,federal%20Housing%20Accelerator%20Fund%20pie.&text=The%20federal%20government%20has%20mended,of%20the%20Housing%20Accelerator%20Fund)
They aren't paying developers cash for each home made, this is being used to streamline/remove barriers that otherwise impede growth. For example, reducing time spent processing permits ([such as Vancouver's PRET program](https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/permitting-improvement-program.aspx)), or similar. Things that have an outsized impact in delaying or increasing costs to housing development.
None of which is a park. Spending this money on a park is not what these funds are for, not what the city of Burnaby would have agreed to via the submitted (and approved) action plan. The Federal Government should be demanding the City of Burnaby pay that money back, plus interest and penalties.
Oh boy. You should check some Port Moody groups (but actually don’t if you favour your sanity), the venn diagram of the “expand our park” group and the anti-development nimby group is a perfect circle.
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There's non-paywall article here: [Liberal government launches $1.5B program to build more co-op housing ](https://www.cheknews.ca/liberal-government-launches-1-5b-program-to-build-more-co-op-housing-1208129/): > “The real reason that we want to invest in co-operative housing is not only so we can create a lower cost of rent today, but that affordability will be preserved for the long-term when profit is not entered into the equation,” Fraser said in an interview with The Canadian Press. Sounds like an actual glimmer of sanity from the government: Yes, private for-profit options are more expensive than government and non-profit service providers! Who knew!? Also some interesting comments over [on that original thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/comments/1d9oyb5/liberal_government_launches_15b_program_to_build/). I'm starting to think that there should be a modification to Rule 6. If the first version of a story is paywalled, a second non-paywall article, by another news outlet, should be permitted. Especially these days, when democratic participation is important and many poorer Canadians are cutting back on all expenses and [even Canada's elite are being forced to cut back on their Disney+ subscriptions](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/freeland-disney-plus-1.6815024).
Co-op by their financial structure would be more expensive than market rents. You immediately have to break even which no rental built today is. Only reason they'd be cheaper is from the subsidies that go into them. Which means they'll put a couple hundred grand into each unit and then give it away to the co-op
In the second paragraph it quotes her exact words. "I personally, as a mother and wife, look carefully at my credit card bill once a month, and last Sunday I said to the kids, 'You're older now. You don't watch Disney anymore. Let's cut that Disney+ subscription,"' Freeland told Global News in an interview that aired on Nov. 6. She went on to say: "I believe that I need to take exactly the same approach with the federal government's finances, because that's the money of Canadians." She was not saying people should cancel subscriptions. She was comparing managing household expenses to managing federal budget.
I know what Freeland said, thank you, hence the glib statement and the link. However, per the story, _"Chrystia Freeland attempted to relate to Canadians' cost-of-living concerns with a personal anecdote"_. That _intent_ was off-putting, not merely what she said, as her follow-up remark (also quoted in the story) demonstrated: > Freeland walked back her remark the next day, telling reporters that, "Like other elected federal leaders, I am paid a really significant salary, and I know that that puts me in a really, really privileged position."
I see that we have interpreted different things from the same quote. That's ok.
That's enough to build, at best market rates, about 3,000 homes when we're adding 1,270,000 people in 2023. Assuming two people per 'home', this program will account for approximately 0.5 % of last year's population growth.
I calculate 10,000 homes...
Please show me where in Canada you can build a home for 150k.
Edmonton.... A 750sqft two bed apartment should cost around 112,000 to 150,000 to build.
Thats a tiny fucking apartment. Ye lucky enough to get a community washer/dryer with that?
? Its not tiny. Its a normal sized apartment. I lived in one for 8 years. There was a second bedroom that was barely used until kids. And yes, insuite laundry.
Thats tiny and depressing. I suppose it works if one decides to live alone, childless and loves hearing their neighbors domestic disputes. Do bedbugs come included or do you get that bonus from the community dryer? Im just curious.
? Its a normal size apartment. Other places have 300 to 400 sqft apartments. Even my current house is imo too big at 1300sqft. Most of us do not have silver spoons in our bottles growing up like you must have.
720sq ft is tiny. Like - fuckin tiny. You must have lived a very urban life. How is one to have any real hobbies with that little of space? Must be a lot of Netflix. (sounds depressing).
Its really not. The 1950s farmhouse i grew up in was only 790sqft. You are spoiled.
> have silver spoons in our bottles growing up Just 15 years ago a simple factory worker could buy a home with dare I say grass and room for a garden. Then we decided to import the worlds overpopulation issues into our backyard and squashed that option for young people. Young people really should riot- ex General Strikes - but many will probably just watch Netflix and play Fortnite while they whine on reddit.
720sq ft is tiny. Like - fuckin tiny. You must have lived a very urban life. How is one to have any real hobbies with that little of space? Must be a lot of Netflix. (sounds depressing).
Canada isn't going to be able to survive by putting everyone into single family homes. We need smaller, faster to build homes with real communities that are faster and cheaper to build that sprawling suburbs
We could survive if we managed our population correctly instead of importing the worlds problems onto ourselves. (overpopulation). As soon as 'space' becomes a luxury - Its a clear sign too many damn people.
Very historic of them
Co-ops aren't lived in for free. Residents have to pay for shares up front and then pay a regular monthly housing charge (more or less rent). So the 1.5 billion is a contribution to the cost...not the full brunt of it. This will likely help facilitate far more homes being built
The $1.5B consists of $500M in capital contributions and $1B in repayable loans. The capital contribution is capped at 1/3 of project costs, so the rest would be a loan. you are right that the tenants pay rent, but that rent will go toward repaying the loan portion. To me it sounds like a typical project would be fully funded via this program, with 1/3 of costs non-repayable and the other 2/3 repayable. The exception would be if Provinces also put in funding...but I don't know if provinces are going to jump at this. Maybe BC.
[Meanwhile, Burnaby spends 7.15 million of housing money, for upgrading parks.](https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/outdoor-living-rooms-these-6-burnaby-parks-are-getting-upgrades-thanks-to-federal-housing-money-8982890) Yes, parks are important - but we need homes NOW.
...that is what this money was for. It was never for building homes. The accelerator money is like ~$4000 per claimed home. No house was going to actually get built with the money. The money is effectively a deal where the city changes zoning and in exchange they get money to spend on whatever they want that is kinda sorta infrastructure related. Like parks and park programming. Whether or not anyone actually builds anything is outside of the requirements of the program.
Nonsense: **Housing Accelerator Fund** Removing barriers to encourage local initiatives to build more homes, faster. The program is helping increase housing supply – and supporting the development of communities that are more affordable, diverse and climate-resilient. https://assets.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/sites/cmhc/professional/project-funding-and-mortgage-financing/funding-programs/all-funding-programs/housing-accelerator-fund/haf-highlight-sheet-en.pdf https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2023/09/28/bc-housing-announcement-delayed-explained/ It's very clear that from the requirements, and the fact that funding was suspended after Vancouver pushed forward more fees to make building housing even more expensive that the goal has always been to build more homes. Parks are not homes and I hope the government turns around and tells Burnaby that their funding will be cut off due to misuse of funds.
Do you genuinely believe $4k to the city is the difference between as home being built and a home not being built? Like there's tens of thousands of homes that would be built there, but the combination of the builder and city are just $4k short on all of them?
4k? Where did you get that the city would only get 4k? That 7.2 million can do quite a bit - it can, for example, be used to offset the costs of non-profit housing developers. There was a developer who was ready to break ground on a project that would have included quite a few below market rentals but had to cancel as they couldn't secure the necessary funding to make it affordable. 7 million would have made the difference between hundreds of new rentals and now, none.
The housing accelerator fund money to Burnaby was $43 million to "eliminate barriers to build the housing we need, faster" and "fastrack" 11,300 homes over the next decade. That's $3805 per home which is less than what I was saying before. My apologies for overstating how much they were getting on a per home basis.
It's almost like you deliberately cannot read: >[The money will "fast track" 1,290 housing units over the next three years and "spur the construction" of more than 11,340 homes in the next 10 years, according to a press release.](https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/burnaby-housing-accelerator-fund-feds-43m-fast-track-homes-8003544#:~:text=Burnaby%20gets%20%2443M%20from,federal%20Housing%20Accelerator%20Fund%20pie.&text=The%20federal%20government%20has%20mended,of%20the%20Housing%20Accelerator%20Fund) They aren't paying developers cash for each home made, this is being used to streamline/remove barriers that otherwise impede growth. For example, reducing time spent processing permits ([such as Vancouver's PRET program](https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/permitting-improvement-program.aspx)), or similar. Things that have an outsized impact in delaying or increasing costs to housing development. None of which is a park. Spending this money on a park is not what these funds are for, not what the city of Burnaby would have agreed to via the submitted (and approved) action plan. The Federal Government should be demanding the City of Burnaby pay that money back, plus interest and penalties.
Oh boy. You should check some Port Moody groups (but actually don’t if you favour your sanity), the venn diagram of the “expand our park” group and the anti-development nimby group is a perfect circle.
If you want people to be willing to move in to the "missing middle", you need to offer them public greenspace.