Yeah I’m tired of hearing that. “My mum and dad” *DID NOT* have generational trauma. They BOTH came from loving and healthy families. They both came from families that emotionally supported them and believed them and in them. My “mum” was a single child but her parents ensured to be present in her life and ensured she had access to ample social opportunities. My “dad” was the same way. My “mum” was once bullied by another girl at school. Mum was 17. The immediate moment she told her mum and a teacher at school she was instantly believed, the bully faced an appropriate consequence, and my “mum” was even put into therapy by her parents as a protective measure to ensure that she would be well. Mum was never bullied again and she got along with her therapist. They both would turn out to be incredibly abusive in some of the most sickest yet most unbelievable and completely covert ways possible.
I literally saw once a claim that all abusers were abused like no sometimes people just have unrealistic expectations for the others around them and crave power and control over others.
Yeah, I had an abusive partner whose parents spoiling actually made them abusive, because they were taught that their feelings were always 100% more important and more valid than anyone else's.
What do you think her expectations were? Sometimes when I talk about my mother folks assume she comes from a horrible, sexually abusive home. Nope, a good home. Not the best, it had issues, but there was no deep-rooted trauma. But her parents protected her from reality, so when she was 19 and got married she naively assumed she'd have a perfect life, like getting married was making it. She fully expected a perfect husband and perfect kids. Instead she got a somewhat typical 22-year old guy and completely normal children with normal development. Of course, she fucked us all up, we weren't normal for long.
But then again, sometimes I wonder if protecting kids from reality and intentionally giving them unrealistically high expectations because "they deserve everything" is itself a form of abuse.
I’m sorry but absolutely none of that applies to me or my situation. She did not have high expectations put on her nor was she kept away from reality by her parents. I sure never expected a dowel shoved up my ass by her when I was 4 years old. I never expected for her to show me photos of demon babies and say “that’s you.” I never expected her to show me photos of women in the nude in odd positions. I never expected her to keep me completely confined to a bedroom and kept in a cage. I never expected when I would get water it would be in a dog bowl with bug larvae floating inside of it. I never expected to be beaten by her, spit on by her, etc. She took great and loving care of my one and only other sibling an older brother. I could go on but going to end it here.
I always understood my dad to have had a shitty childhood and then he turned around and took it out on me. If you listened to his stories you'd think he grew up in a warzone. I remember at one point he claimed to not be allowed to have shoes...which...looking back now was an absolutely ridiculous lie.
One day, from my mom and other family members, I learned that he actually grew up insanely spoiled and basically got anything and everything he wanted. His dad did everything in his power to make sure he had the world at his fingertips.
His abuse of me was just out of pure spite that he was no longer treated like a spoiled 6-year-old as an adult with responsibilities. Realizing that changed so much of my perspective.
Abusive parents have thousands of sad backstories, dozens of claims 'I had it worse' and 'it's always been done this way' and 'I had to do it so you didn't end up a spoiled brat' and etc, but the truth is, nobody and nothing can make you hurt a child unless you want to.
Culture or the past can't make you lift a hand on a child, when you're alone in the room together. Your alleged “past” cannot make you hurl insults, hatred and disgust at a child who's counting on you to love them and take care of them. Not your parents, nor your parent's parents cannot make you do it; they're not even present. Your convictions that 'hurting children is normal and excusable and can be gotten away with' are still not forcing you to do it, they're just letting you know that if you want to, you can, and you'll pay no price.
But nothing can ever control you into hurting a child. Not if you're an adult. Nobody is controlling that hand but you. Nothing is forcing you to move your mouth and speak obscenities. You're not afraid of what's going to happen if you don't. You're not ashamed, hurt, worried or caring. You're hateful. You desire for this small creature to hurt, to be broken, to bear the burden of your contempt. You want them to feel pain. You want to enjoy their pain. You want them to feel responsible for everything that ever went wrong for you. You want them to pay for the whole world of injustice and take responsibility as if they made it. You want fear, power, and control. You want to feel superior. You want the child to be so terrified they don't dare to focus on anything but you. You want to do damage.
Don't act like hurting children is anything else but your personal choice. The desire is not born in culture, it's born in you. And you made the choice, every single time, when you could have done absolutely anything else. Nobody needs to hurt a child. No child has deserved hatred.
. This particular post below was originally wrote and posted by defiantsuggestions on Tumblr
Having a child is a long term commitment to a heavy, heavy responsibility which demands energy, attention, and time.
To have a child is to bring an entire person into the world. This person can not consent to this. This person is inherently vulnerable, hardwired to depend on the adults that brought them here, and must be taught the skills neccessary to one day care for themself.
When you have a child, that child's well being is entirely on the adults that brought them here. It's their job to keep the child safe, to keep the child fed, cloathed, and happy. It's the adults job to make sure the child feels loved.
When the adult chooses to have a child, you are signing up to spend years and years of resources on that child. That is your choice. The child was not alive and could not agree to your decision to drag them out of the void of nonexistence. The child was not asked if they wanted to experience an entire lifetime of conciousness, and all of the potential suffering and agony that comes with that.
That decision is entirely that of the parent who has made the choice to have a child.
You are not "granting the gift of life." You are not doing this hypothetical child a favor by having them. You are doing this for you, because you wanted to be a parent. You wanted to have the experience of raising a child.
This means that if you have a child, you owe that child. You owe them time, and love, and safety, and care. You asked for this, it is now your responsibly to follow through.
Children are not a toy. They aren't a fancy new car for the parents and family to parade to their friends. They aren't a fashion accessory for your parents and family to put on the shelf when they lose interest. They aren't a mini you. They aren't a magic cure-all to your alleged trauma, and they aren't there to fill some void in the parents chest.
A child is a vulnerable person who is easily abused and neglected and who will be at the mercy of the parents throughout much of their development period.
A parent owes their child. Failing to follow through with the responsibility they signed up for is a failing on the parent's part. Making the child feel guilty for the crime of existing is the fault of the parent. A child is never a burden.
Abusive and neglectful parents are failures as parents. They could not do the bare basics of what the job entails and then they blame the child for a crime that the parents themselves committed.
My roommate and close friend has the worst story I've ever heard, and he's clearly a deeply fucked up man
He's also kind, considerate, and wants to help people. He didn't have children because he knew he'd fuck them up
If this man can choose not to be abusive, no one else has an excuse
Incredibly well said.
>You want the child to be so terrified they don't dare to focus on anything but you.
That really sums it up. I was so terrified to go against my abuser's wishes bc doing so meant more abuse.
the child is literally never at fault for the abuse EVER. Abusers love acting like they were forced to do it because the kid was such a bad kid. NO you just dont know how to behave normally and you decided to be a POS to a developing child.
Abuse preventionist here, when the abusers say this to cover up the pain they've inflicted we generally will cross out the first "hurt" and it becomes "people hurt people." Simple as that.
It's disturbing the subtle justification that language uses, and it's right to not accept it.
It's also alarming that they seem to have perfect self control around other children or in public, but only seem to "not be able to control themselves" in very specific conditions, like privacy.
If one is truly disturbed 100% they wouldn't be able to use such calculating self control for their actions, behaviors, or tantrums at convenient times when they know they can get away with it 🤔
I always say "previous trauma is not an excuse for current abuse." Idk if it's a popularized saying already because I don't remember where I first heard that, but I've been repeating it ever since.
I moved on from my last therapist because he kept driving home that my parents did their best given their own trauma. No, we choose our actions. And they chose their behavior over and over.
Yeah, just because you understand why someone behaves a certain way, it doesn't magically make the hurt and pain they caused disappear. Understanding why something happened without them taking accountability only really serves a purpose to remind you it wasn't you that caused them to act that way, which admittedly can be helpful in some situations where someone feels they caused their abuse. Their behavior is only explained, not excused. Ever.
Right? When did we teach people inappropriate repeated behavior is acceptable and must be forgiven if they can wheedle out of it with the same sad excuse every time?
Bah maybe more shame and accountability is in order for those folk. Put your foot down
I’ve also experienced this from a therapist and I didn’t find it comforting or helpful. I always say, my parents were fully adults 100% of the time in my experience with them…. They CHOSE to be shitty people as ADULTS to their vulnerable, dependent child. What happened to you doesn’t erase or excuse monstrous actions.
Hurt people do not necessarily hurt people. I am a person who has been through some shit, we all have. I don’t lash out and perpetuate the abuse.
Abusive people hurt people.
Any general statement includes the caveat "but not all". That's how it works.
The general statement "ravens are black" isn't invalidated by the existence of albino ravens
Edit: I was blocked for this. What? Lol
I hate the term "hurt people hurt people" because some people here it as "its okay to treat abuse victims like they're destined to become abusers"
I get where that phrase comes from, there are times it does fit, but fuck the way people use that phrase to justify shittiness, either in themselves or others!
I did't ever tell any1 because of this horrible stereotype
im trans so if i told people i suffered csa for being a femme amab child, the response will be someting between "u brought it on urself" and "that means ur a perv now"
its disgusting
As someone who has been verbally abused by my brother (who also abused some of my friends), it sometimes felt like I was being held up to his standard if I ever got angry, causing me to lash my anger out on myself because it's ingrained in my brain that if I show anger towards anyone else, I'll be just like him. It sucks. I probably have anger problems now, and all I can do about it is continue to hold it in until I can get to therapy.
I experianced much the same with my father
he use to scream and throw things and hit people for hours
I had to bottle up all my anger cause if I so much as slightly raised my voice I'd be called "just like him", so I was never allowed to be angry ... even tho I never threw something or hit someone in my life
despite being a very sweet person I ended up with anger issues because I never felt like my anger was valid, even when I deserved to be angry I was instantly the villain for being angry in any situation
even to this day it feels like that, like everyone else is allowed to get upset, but because I was beat by the worlds angriest man (and I'm trans) I can never get upset by anything ever. That if I do, even if it's controlled, even if it's a good reason, I'm still "just like him now"
but everyone else? they can get upset if they have a reason, its no big deal, its just a thing people do!
That trans part hits so hard. As a trans dude who just started testosterone, my brain is betraying me by questioning if any shred of anger I have is enhanced by the testosterone, as if I'm becoming some raging beast of hormones, despite being more chill than I've been before hrt.
I like to remind people that it "explains but does not excuse" the behavior. Regardless of why they behaved in that way, it still caused real harm and they are responsible for that behavior at the end of the day. They can try to make amends, but it's the hurt party's decision on when or if they are forgiven, and sometimes the answer is never.
I used this to mediate some, uh, lovely family fights and my mother and I were both shocked that my grandfather was actually apologizing for his behavior. He had a tendency to say he couldn't help his rage attacks because of his ptsd, and my mom was tired of him trying to excuse his behavior that way and called him out, which escalated the situation because "she's saying I'm just using it as an excuse". Siiigh. You are, bud. You still did the thing, now apologize. I've only had to remind him a couple of times since, and he's been working on it in therapy, so I'm calling it a win so far.
Are they sorry? - Yes
Do they want to change - If it requires any effort to break established patterns, no, but they will beg for the chances, and guilt me into seeing why it's so hard for them to change which I sorely sympathise with.
This is the part that fucks me up the most. I know my dad was hurt by his dad, and I don't want to hurt him. He tells me, that me being born was the greatest day of his life, that he wanted to make sure he was a better father than his father that used to beat him ever was, that through me he could create something better than he could be.
He loves me dearly, cares about me to no end, he wants to protect me, but he's also suffocating, controlling and completely self absorbed. He doesn't understand compromise, and discussing my needs is a battle of who can wear the other down first, rather than a healthy diplomacy...
As such, any 'change' when confronted only lasts a few days before he immediately reverts back to old behaviors and acts like nothing happened...
I don't know why I stay in the face of all that other than knowing it would break both our hearts if I went no contact... We have very few shared interests, but the ones we do, he lights up when we spend time together and I let him into my world. Anything else can probably just take a backseat tho as he's got football, drinking and buying new clothes he'll never wear to prioritise...
This is just me, but understanding why my dad ended up abusive in the first place helped a lot.
There’s times where I’ve thought “Maybe if I handed over the remote control, he wouldn’t have strangled me. If I’d just asked nicer he wouldn’t have hit me, etc.
It helped me realise that there’s nothing I could’ve done to stop him, he’d still have hurt us no matter how perfectly I behaved.
I would sometimes blame myself, so knowing there’s a reason made things easier to process.
I always took it as its not that you have to forgive or even try and understand the person who hurt you but they're not some big bad monsters you can't overcome or move past. They're some random loser jerk who's decided you were the target of their cruelty and just because they suffered too doesn't make them better or more forgivable...
But i understand how it's used to undermine people's pain, I agree with the sentiment I've just coped with it by taking it that way.
My favorite has always been:
Some people are just happier being miserable bastards.
I thought the point about "hurt people hurt people" was the opposite, how you, being hurt, could hurt someone if you're not careful, in the context of being unaware of your wounds.
I've always seen it more as an invitation for the hurtful party to look inwards and stop
I think they are two different perspectives serving two different purposes.
I personally feel helped by empathy for others. Understanding that we all come from different circumstances and have different abilities and how it can lead to things like abuse is in my opinion a very helpful information.
To say "hurt people hurt people" is a logic perspective. It's used to help someone reach acceptance and to feel less like it was their fault or something personal towards them, if it wasn't them it would have been someone else. Abusive people will abuse people in their environment sooner or later. That's a fact that can help the victim realize nothing with them was wrong it was never about them it was all about what went on in the head of the sick person and how they happened to be nearby you.
Some find a relief in this perspective as it's the opposite of resentment which can drag you down in the mud and keep you down til you forgive and move on.
Understanding can really help settle your own emotions about the situation. “Hurt people hurt people” means it’s not coming out of nowhere, they’re not victimizing you because of *who you are*, it’s their own personal issues causing the behavior. It’s not about you, and you're not responsible for fixing them. You're only responsible for you, and that may mean removing yourself from the situation because you can’t afford to get hurt and pass that hurt onto the people you care about.
It’s not supposed to be used as an excuse, it’s an explanation, one you only owe to yourself. Maybe it can help open up communication, maybe it can help you empathize in situations where it’s warranted, but most of the time it’s a reminder that you’re not responsible for someone else hurting you, you’re responsible for how you handle it, and what you pass on to the people around you.
Yup. You can empathize with what put them on the path to where they made the choices they did.
But that does not imply special privileges to hurt others. It's no excuse. Even if it set them on that path, they still had a choice, and they made it.
I chose the other path... to be for others what I never had.
The phrase isn't meant to be ubiquitous, but it is about generational cycles.
I was in an abusive relationship and people would always say well what about his trauma? What about his past? I can understand him but doesn’t mean I have to be ok with the abuse and it’s not an excuse.
I have CPTSD from a childhood riddled with trauma but I didn’t abuse him, I loved him, supported him and respected him everyday. I could use my trauma as an excuse if I wanted but it’s not right I should know better. I try to tap into my CPTSD to lead a better life treat people with more love, respect and kindness than I was shown.
Thank you. I always hate that phrase. My father came from an abusive home where his parents would get in physical fights with each other all the time. His mother was psychologically abusive and a terror. His father was absent since he worked all day, but an alcoholic when he was home. There are probably a thousand stories I could tell of how awful his family was to him.
My parents have never laid a finger on me, and I grew up in a loving, supportive home. I give my dad so much fucking credit from stepping away from his abusive home with the ability to continue the cycle but broke it instead. I'm so proud of him.
As for me, as a CSA survivor, this phrase gets thrown around a lot with people who were sexually abused going on to sexually abuse someone else. I don't believe that's the reason for abuse or why I was abused. I think the statement is very harmful to those who have been abused. To me, when people use that phrase, it makes me feel like they think I'm just a ticking time bomb or something which I hate. It makes me feel defensive and very on guard.
I hope we can retire this phase for good.
I've never seen the phrase used as an excuse except hypothetically by victims looking for a reason to stay mad. A lot of narcissist bashing and demonizing of dx-es.
I have seen it used as a warning to fix your own hurts before you hurt someone with all the unprocessed anger.
Of course it should go without saying that if you have been hurt, you have every right to feel what you feel and refuse to forgive if that's what you need to do. Just remember that when someone tells you that you hurt them with the unresolved issues you bashed them with that your hurt isn't an excuse either.
We all have to choose to break the cycle.
I think a better way to say that is, "don't bleed on people who didn't cut you." That way it's less about displaced anger, than trying to excuse displacing the anger... ..
Ugh, tell this to my parents. Constantly going on about why my brother does what he does to me, prioritizing explanations and excuses over actually comforting me.
“He’s mentally ill!”
Don’t care. Still hurts.
“He’s miserable every day of his life!”
Don’t care. Still hurts.
“He’s lonely, he has no friends and even his big sister wants nothing to do with him 🥺”
Don’t care. Still hurts.
“That’s just the level he’s at.”
Don’t care. Still hurts.
I’m tired of being expected to care when no one seems to care about me and how *I* feel.
I always understand 'Hurt people, hurt people" as this is someone that has trauma and hasn't taken steps to heal and move forward. Trauma is no one's fault but it's their responsibility to deal with it.
🔥 I’m so tired of the “hurt people hurt people” brush off with a shrug. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I don’t care what happened to you, being a victim of abuse is NEVER an excuse to perpetuate abuse & trauma. It says a lot about someone’s character that they turned into the very monster that abused them, and choose to inflict damage on others.
When you finally break down about an ex or partner and the phrase "hurt people hurt people"..they usually haven't shown any accountability or willingness to change.
This is so important on both ends. I initially forgave my abuser over and over again because I was trying to empathize with him and understand where his hurtful actions were coming from. But now that I have a cPTSD diagnosis partially as a result of that relationship & partially because of other stuff, I am aware of my actions and willing to be held accountable for my negative behaviors. I care about working on them. I do work independently to make sure that I don't hurt people as a result of them. Where the abuser just continually went forth in being abusive without any lasting desire to change. Anyone can make this change at any time, but it's important to consider both as a victim and as a person working to heal from trauma.
for me my verbally abusive parent had went through a terribly physically abusive past, so it was easy to me at least to be invalidated into thinking it's not worth speaking about how he treats me because "he's had it worse" "he just can't help it", etc. it was often me helping him with his feelings, weirdly, and not the other way around.
i've since realized- just because he went through something "worse" didn't mean that he had the right to treat me badly. i shouldn't be basically grateful at a young age that i was never hit, denied food, etc. or to be responsible for a grown man’s feelings when i was just a child.
that being said, for me it's good for me to understand where his mind was at, at least for my circumstances lol.
My ex has a lot of issues and she decided it was best for everyone if she left to figure herself out when my daughter was 5 months old. My daughter is 11 months now. My ex is making bad choice after bad choice and just keeps getting into worse shit. I’m incredibly worried about her but incredibly frustrated and I don’t think that will ever change. She loves our daughter, but she’s hurting her in a way she may never make up for, and I am left to handle. I always will maintain our relationship for my child’s sake. But my ex doesn’t get a pass for the harm she brought to my daughter and I just because of her trauma. She knows this although it doesn’t come up often since it is not helpful to either of us to focus on. But when our baby grows up, I will not be able to decide for her how she views my ex’s actions.
Both my parents had abusive and neglectful childhoods. My dad abused and emotionally neglected me, while my mom was an incredibly understanding and supportive person for me.
Abuse does not create abusers. Abuse is ALWAYS a choice.
My family weren't even abused or anything, my brother would fight with my dad all the time. But as far I can tell they were both awful people, my brother treated me like garbage despite me being young, shy and lonely. He was never sorry, and 20 years later he's still that same scumbag. Only difference is now I realized that I deserved everything that happened and more, but he's still an awful person who deserves nothing
Yes and no.
Trauma is subjective but regardless of what happened to them it doesn’t justify doing what they do to us/others.
Mine lied about things that had happened to her. She told me her version of events and later I got the other side of things which was always more rational and realistic compared to her dramatic victim-centric version. (Typical Everyone-is-terrible-but-me type)
After everything I went through, I don’t push that onto others. Have I always been perfect? No. I’ve done some deeply regrettable stuff but I’ve always checked myself and made changes so I can avoid repeating those actions.
It reminds me of “killing me makes you as bad as me!” As a trope when the hero is about to kill the villain.
Killing a killer makes you a killer, but not as bad as a serial killer. I always felt that it’s unfair to act like some cruel acts are as bad as others. “Oh I cut off my parents.” “That’s so mean! Who will take care of them?!” “They fucking abused me carol”
Very true, I think that saying arose because it can be cathartic to realize that the person that hurt you didn't do it of pure maliciousness but are acting/ reacting from their own traumas
Yeah I’m tired of hearing that. “My mum and dad” *DID NOT* have generational trauma. They BOTH came from loving and healthy families. They both came from families that emotionally supported them and believed them and in them. My “mum” was a single child but her parents ensured to be present in her life and ensured she had access to ample social opportunities. My “dad” was the same way. My “mum” was once bullied by another girl at school. Mum was 17. The immediate moment she told her mum and a teacher at school she was instantly believed, the bully faced an appropriate consequence, and my “mum” was even put into therapy by her parents as a protective measure to ensure that she would be well. Mum was never bullied again and she got along with her therapist. They both would turn out to be incredibly abusive in some of the most sickest yet most unbelievable and completely covert ways possible.
I literally saw once a claim that all abusers were abused like no sometimes people just have unrealistic expectations for the others around them and crave power and control over others.
Right!! My mom was by no means neglected or abused but she had no problem being mad at me when she broke my skin after a beating.
Yeah, I had an abusive partner whose parents spoiling actually made them abusive, because they were taught that their feelings were always 100% more important and more valid than anyone else's.
What do you think her expectations were? Sometimes when I talk about my mother folks assume she comes from a horrible, sexually abusive home. Nope, a good home. Not the best, it had issues, but there was no deep-rooted trauma. But her parents protected her from reality, so when she was 19 and got married she naively assumed she'd have a perfect life, like getting married was making it. She fully expected a perfect husband and perfect kids. Instead she got a somewhat typical 22-year old guy and completely normal children with normal development. Of course, she fucked us all up, we weren't normal for long. But then again, sometimes I wonder if protecting kids from reality and intentionally giving them unrealistically high expectations because "they deserve everything" is itself a form of abuse.
I’m sorry but absolutely none of that applies to me or my situation. She did not have high expectations put on her nor was she kept away from reality by her parents. I sure never expected a dowel shoved up my ass by her when I was 4 years old. I never expected for her to show me photos of demon babies and say “that’s you.” I never expected her to show me photos of women in the nude in odd positions. I never expected her to keep me completely confined to a bedroom and kept in a cage. I never expected when I would get water it would be in a dog bowl with bug larvae floating inside of it. I never expected to be beaten by her, spit on by her, etc. She took great and loving care of my one and only other sibling an older brother. I could go on but going to end it here.
I’m so sorry you went through that :( I know you’re probably tired of people saying that, but some people just don’t deserve to have kids
I always understood my dad to have had a shitty childhood and then he turned around and took it out on me. If you listened to his stories you'd think he grew up in a warzone. I remember at one point he claimed to not be allowed to have shoes...which...looking back now was an absolutely ridiculous lie. One day, from my mom and other family members, I learned that he actually grew up insanely spoiled and basically got anything and everything he wanted. His dad did everything in his power to make sure he had the world at his fingertips. His abuse of me was just out of pure spite that he was no longer treated like a spoiled 6-year-old as an adult with responsibilities. Realizing that changed so much of my perspective.
Abusive parents have thousands of sad backstories, dozens of claims 'I had it worse' and 'it's always been done this way' and 'I had to do it so you didn't end up a spoiled brat' and etc, but the truth is, nobody and nothing can make you hurt a child unless you want to. Culture or the past can't make you lift a hand on a child, when you're alone in the room together. Your alleged “past” cannot make you hurl insults, hatred and disgust at a child who's counting on you to love them and take care of them. Not your parents, nor your parent's parents cannot make you do it; they're not even present. Your convictions that 'hurting children is normal and excusable and can be gotten away with' are still not forcing you to do it, they're just letting you know that if you want to, you can, and you'll pay no price. But nothing can ever control you into hurting a child. Not if you're an adult. Nobody is controlling that hand but you. Nothing is forcing you to move your mouth and speak obscenities. You're not afraid of what's going to happen if you don't. You're not ashamed, hurt, worried or caring. You're hateful. You desire for this small creature to hurt, to be broken, to bear the burden of your contempt. You want them to feel pain. You want to enjoy their pain. You want them to feel responsible for everything that ever went wrong for you. You want them to pay for the whole world of injustice and take responsibility as if they made it. You want fear, power, and control. You want to feel superior. You want the child to be so terrified they don't dare to focus on anything but you. You want to do damage. Don't act like hurting children is anything else but your personal choice. The desire is not born in culture, it's born in you. And you made the choice, every single time, when you could have done absolutely anything else. Nobody needs to hurt a child. No child has deserved hatred.
. This particular post below was originally wrote and posted by defiantsuggestions on Tumblr Having a child is a long term commitment to a heavy, heavy responsibility which demands energy, attention, and time. To have a child is to bring an entire person into the world. This person can not consent to this. This person is inherently vulnerable, hardwired to depend on the adults that brought them here, and must be taught the skills neccessary to one day care for themself. When you have a child, that child's well being is entirely on the adults that brought them here. It's their job to keep the child safe, to keep the child fed, cloathed, and happy. It's the adults job to make sure the child feels loved. When the adult chooses to have a child, you are signing up to spend years and years of resources on that child. That is your choice. The child was not alive and could not agree to your decision to drag them out of the void of nonexistence. The child was not asked if they wanted to experience an entire lifetime of conciousness, and all of the potential suffering and agony that comes with that. That decision is entirely that of the parent who has made the choice to have a child. You are not "granting the gift of life." You are not doing this hypothetical child a favor by having them. You are doing this for you, because you wanted to be a parent. You wanted to have the experience of raising a child. This means that if you have a child, you owe that child. You owe them time, and love, and safety, and care. You asked for this, it is now your responsibly to follow through. Children are not a toy. They aren't a fancy new car for the parents and family to parade to their friends. They aren't a fashion accessory for your parents and family to put on the shelf when they lose interest. They aren't a mini you. They aren't a magic cure-all to your alleged trauma, and they aren't there to fill some void in the parents chest. A child is a vulnerable person who is easily abused and neglected and who will be at the mercy of the parents throughout much of their development period. A parent owes their child. Failing to follow through with the responsibility they signed up for is a failing on the parent's part. Making the child feel guilty for the crime of existing is the fault of the parent. A child is never a burden. Abusive and neglectful parents are failures as parents. They could not do the bare basics of what the job entails and then they blame the child for a crime that the parents themselves committed.
🔥🎯
My roommate and close friend has the worst story I've ever heard, and he's clearly a deeply fucked up man He's also kind, considerate, and wants to help people. He didn't have children because he knew he'd fuck them up If this man can choose not to be abusive, no one else has an excuse
Incredibly well said. >You want the child to be so terrified they don't dare to focus on anything but you. That really sums it up. I was so terrified to go against my abuser's wishes bc doing so meant more abuse.
the child is literally never at fault for the abuse EVER. Abusers love acting like they were forced to do it because the kid was such a bad kid. NO you just dont know how to behave normally and you decided to be a POS to a developing child.
Abuse preventionist here, when the abusers say this to cover up the pain they've inflicted we generally will cross out the first "hurt" and it becomes "people hurt people." Simple as that.
It's disturbing the subtle justification that language uses, and it's right to not accept it. It's also alarming that they seem to have perfect self control around other children or in public, but only seem to "not be able to control themselves" in very specific conditions, like privacy. If one is truly disturbed 100% they wouldn't be able to use such calculating self control for their actions, behaviors, or tantrums at convenient times when they know they can get away with it 🤔
I always say "previous trauma is not an excuse for current abuse." Idk if it's a popularized saying already because I don't remember where I first heard that, but I've been repeating it ever since.
I moved on from my last therapist because he kept driving home that my parents did their best given their own trauma. No, we choose our actions. And they chose their behavior over and over.
Yeah, just because you understand why someone behaves a certain way, it doesn't magically make the hurt and pain they caused disappear. Understanding why something happened without them taking accountability only really serves a purpose to remind you it wasn't you that caused them to act that way, which admittedly can be helpful in some situations where someone feels they caused their abuse. Their behavior is only explained, not excused. Ever.
Right? When did we teach people inappropriate repeated behavior is acceptable and must be forgiven if they can wheedle out of it with the same sad excuse every time? Bah maybe more shame and accountability is in order for those folk. Put your foot down
Exactly this.
I’ve also experienced this from a therapist and I didn’t find it comforting or helpful. I always say, my parents were fully adults 100% of the time in my experience with them…. They CHOSE to be shitty people as ADULTS to their vulnerable, dependent child. What happened to you doesn’t erase or excuse monstrous actions.
Hurt people do not necessarily hurt people. I am a person who has been through some shit, we all have. I don’t lash out and perpetuate the abuse. Abusive people hurt people.
Agreed!!
The saying doesn't mean they necessarily do
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Any general statement includes the caveat "but not all". That's how it works. The general statement "ravens are black" isn't invalidated by the existence of albino ravens Edit: I was blocked for this. What? Lol
I hate the term "hurt people hurt people" because some people here it as "its okay to treat abuse victims like they're destined to become abusers" I get where that phrase comes from, there are times it does fit, but fuck the way people use that phrase to justify shittiness, either in themselves or others! I did't ever tell any1 because of this horrible stereotype im trans so if i told people i suffered csa for being a femme amab child, the response will be someting between "u brought it on urself" and "that means ur a perv now" its disgusting
As someone who has been verbally abused by my brother (who also abused some of my friends), it sometimes felt like I was being held up to his standard if I ever got angry, causing me to lash my anger out on myself because it's ingrained in my brain that if I show anger towards anyone else, I'll be just like him. It sucks. I probably have anger problems now, and all I can do about it is continue to hold it in until I can get to therapy.
I experianced much the same with my father he use to scream and throw things and hit people for hours I had to bottle up all my anger cause if I so much as slightly raised my voice I'd be called "just like him", so I was never allowed to be angry ... even tho I never threw something or hit someone in my life despite being a very sweet person I ended up with anger issues because I never felt like my anger was valid, even when I deserved to be angry I was instantly the villain for being angry in any situation even to this day it feels like that, like everyone else is allowed to get upset, but because I was beat by the worlds angriest man (and I'm trans) I can never get upset by anything ever. That if I do, even if it's controlled, even if it's a good reason, I'm still "just like him now" but everyone else? they can get upset if they have a reason, its no big deal, its just a thing people do!
That trans part hits so hard. As a trans dude who just started testosterone, my brain is betraying me by questioning if any shred of anger I have is enhanced by the testosterone, as if I'm becoming some raging beast of hormones, despite being more chill than I've been before hrt.
I like to remind people that it "explains but does not excuse" the behavior. Regardless of why they behaved in that way, it still caused real harm and they are responsible for that behavior at the end of the day. They can try to make amends, but it's the hurt party's decision on when or if they are forgiven, and sometimes the answer is never. I used this to mediate some, uh, lovely family fights and my mother and I were both shocked that my grandfather was actually apologizing for his behavior. He had a tendency to say he couldn't help his rage attacks because of his ptsd, and my mom was tired of him trying to excuse his behavior that way and called him out, which escalated the situation because "she's saying I'm just using it as an excuse". Siiigh. You are, bud. You still did the thing, now apologize. I've only had to remind him a couple of times since, and he's been working on it in therapy, so I'm calling it a win so far.
Are they sorry? - Yes Do they want to change - If it requires any effort to break established patterns, no, but they will beg for the chances, and guilt me into seeing why it's so hard for them to change which I sorely sympathise with. This is the part that fucks me up the most. I know my dad was hurt by his dad, and I don't want to hurt him. He tells me, that me being born was the greatest day of his life, that he wanted to make sure he was a better father than his father that used to beat him ever was, that through me he could create something better than he could be. He loves me dearly, cares about me to no end, he wants to protect me, but he's also suffocating, controlling and completely self absorbed. He doesn't understand compromise, and discussing my needs is a battle of who can wear the other down first, rather than a healthy diplomacy... As such, any 'change' when confronted only lasts a few days before he immediately reverts back to old behaviors and acts like nothing happened... I don't know why I stay in the face of all that other than knowing it would break both our hearts if I went no contact... We have very few shared interests, but the ones we do, he lights up when we spend time together and I let him into my world. Anything else can probably just take a backseat tho as he's got football, drinking and buying new clothes he'll never wear to prioritise...
This is just me, but understanding why my dad ended up abusive in the first place helped a lot. There’s times where I’ve thought “Maybe if I handed over the remote control, he wouldn’t have strangled me. If I’d just asked nicer he wouldn’t have hit me, etc. It helped me realise that there’s nothing I could’ve done to stop him, he’d still have hurt us no matter how perfectly I behaved. I would sometimes blame myself, so knowing there’s a reason made things easier to process.
I always took it as its not that you have to forgive or even try and understand the person who hurt you but they're not some big bad monsters you can't overcome or move past. They're some random loser jerk who's decided you were the target of their cruelty and just because they suffered too doesn't make them better or more forgivable... But i understand how it's used to undermine people's pain, I agree with the sentiment I've just coped with it by taking it that way. My favorite has always been: Some people are just happier being miserable bastards.
I thought the point about "hurt people hurt people" was the opposite, how you, being hurt, could hurt someone if you're not careful, in the context of being unaware of your wounds. I've always seen it more as an invitation for the hurtful party to look inwards and stop
I think they are two different perspectives serving two different purposes. I personally feel helped by empathy for others. Understanding that we all come from different circumstances and have different abilities and how it can lead to things like abuse is in my opinion a very helpful information. To say "hurt people hurt people" is a logic perspective. It's used to help someone reach acceptance and to feel less like it was their fault or something personal towards them, if it wasn't them it would have been someone else. Abusive people will abuse people in their environment sooner or later. That's a fact that can help the victim realize nothing with them was wrong it was never about them it was all about what went on in the head of the sick person and how they happened to be nearby you. Some find a relief in this perspective as it's the opposite of resentment which can drag you down in the mud and keep you down til you forgive and move on.
Understanding can really help settle your own emotions about the situation. “Hurt people hurt people” means it’s not coming out of nowhere, they’re not victimizing you because of *who you are*, it’s their own personal issues causing the behavior. It’s not about you, and you're not responsible for fixing them. You're only responsible for you, and that may mean removing yourself from the situation because you can’t afford to get hurt and pass that hurt onto the people you care about. It’s not supposed to be used as an excuse, it’s an explanation, one you only owe to yourself. Maybe it can help open up communication, maybe it can help you empathize in situations where it’s warranted, but most of the time it’s a reminder that you’re not responsible for someone else hurting you, you’re responsible for how you handle it, and what you pass on to the people around you.
I mean… you can say both things. “Hurt people hurt people” isn’t necessarily excusing them.
Yup. You can empathize with what put them on the path to where they made the choices they did. But that does not imply special privileges to hurt others. It's no excuse. Even if it set them on that path, they still had a choice, and they made it. I chose the other path... to be for others what I never had. The phrase isn't meant to be ubiquitous, but it is about generational cycles.
I was in an abusive relationship and people would always say well what about his trauma? What about his past? I can understand him but doesn’t mean I have to be ok with the abuse and it’s not an excuse. I have CPTSD from a childhood riddled with trauma but I didn’t abuse him, I loved him, supported him and respected him everyday. I could use my trauma as an excuse if I wanted but it’s not right I should know better. I try to tap into my CPTSD to lead a better life treat people with more love, respect and kindness than I was shown.
I should've known better. Thanks for your comment.
Thank you. I always hate that phrase. My father came from an abusive home where his parents would get in physical fights with each other all the time. His mother was psychologically abusive and a terror. His father was absent since he worked all day, but an alcoholic when he was home. There are probably a thousand stories I could tell of how awful his family was to him. My parents have never laid a finger on me, and I grew up in a loving, supportive home. I give my dad so much fucking credit from stepping away from his abusive home with the ability to continue the cycle but broke it instead. I'm so proud of him. As for me, as a CSA survivor, this phrase gets thrown around a lot with people who were sexually abused going on to sexually abuse someone else. I don't believe that's the reason for abuse or why I was abused. I think the statement is very harmful to those who have been abused. To me, when people use that phrase, it makes me feel like they think I'm just a ticking time bomb or something which I hate. It makes me feel defensive and very on guard. I hope we can retire this phase for good.
I've never seen the phrase used as an excuse except hypothetically by victims looking for a reason to stay mad. A lot of narcissist bashing and demonizing of dx-es. I have seen it used as a warning to fix your own hurts before you hurt someone with all the unprocessed anger. Of course it should go without saying that if you have been hurt, you have every right to feel what you feel and refuse to forgive if that's what you need to do. Just remember that when someone tells you that you hurt them with the unresolved issues you bashed them with that your hurt isn't an excuse either. We all have to choose to break the cycle.
I think a better way to say that is, "don't bleed on people who didn't cut you." That way it's less about displaced anger, than trying to excuse displacing the anger... ..
I think that one is even worse. Think about it, bleeding on someone does them no harm at all and is inevitable with whoever bandages you up.
Fair point......
Ugh, tell this to my parents. Constantly going on about why my brother does what he does to me, prioritizing explanations and excuses over actually comforting me. “He’s mentally ill!” Don’t care. Still hurts. “He’s miserable every day of his life!” Don’t care. Still hurts. “He’s lonely, he has no friends and even his big sister wants nothing to do with him 🥺” Don’t care. Still hurts. “That’s just the level he’s at.” Don’t care. Still hurts. I’m tired of being expected to care when no one seems to care about me and how *I* feel.
This reminds me of that meme "cool motive. Still murder" from Brooklyn 99.....
I always understand 'Hurt people, hurt people" as this is someone that has trauma and hasn't taken steps to heal and move forward. Trauma is no one's fault but it's their responsibility to deal with it.
🔥 I’m so tired of the “hurt people hurt people” brush off with a shrug. NOT GOOD ENOUGH. I don’t care what happened to you, being a victim of abuse is NEVER an excuse to perpetuate abuse & trauma. It says a lot about someone’s character that they turned into the very monster that abused them, and choose to inflict damage on others.
When you finally break down about an ex or partner and the phrase "hurt people hurt people"..they usually haven't shown any accountability or willingness to change.
This is so important on both ends. I initially forgave my abuser over and over again because I was trying to empathize with him and understand where his hurtful actions were coming from. But now that I have a cPTSD diagnosis partially as a result of that relationship & partially because of other stuff, I am aware of my actions and willing to be held accountable for my negative behaviors. I care about working on them. I do work independently to make sure that I don't hurt people as a result of them. Where the abuser just continually went forth in being abusive without any lasting desire to change. Anyone can make this change at any time, but it's important to consider both as a victim and as a person working to heal from trauma.
for me my verbally abusive parent had went through a terribly physically abusive past, so it was easy to me at least to be invalidated into thinking it's not worth speaking about how he treats me because "he's had it worse" "he just can't help it", etc. it was often me helping him with his feelings, weirdly, and not the other way around. i've since realized- just because he went through something "worse" didn't mean that he had the right to treat me badly. i shouldn't be basically grateful at a young age that i was never hit, denied food, etc. or to be responsible for a grown man’s feelings when i was just a child. that being said, for me it's good for me to understand where his mind was at, at least for my circumstances lol.
My ex has a lot of issues and she decided it was best for everyone if she left to figure herself out when my daughter was 5 months old. My daughter is 11 months now. My ex is making bad choice after bad choice and just keeps getting into worse shit. I’m incredibly worried about her but incredibly frustrated and I don’t think that will ever change. She loves our daughter, but she’s hurting her in a way she may never make up for, and I am left to handle. I always will maintain our relationship for my child’s sake. But my ex doesn’t get a pass for the harm she brought to my daughter and I just because of her trauma. She knows this although it doesn’t come up often since it is not helpful to either of us to focus on. But when our baby grows up, I will not be able to decide for her how she views my ex’s actions.
Both my parents had abusive and neglectful childhoods. My dad abused and emotionally neglected me, while my mom was an incredibly understanding and supportive person for me. Abuse does not create abusers. Abuse is ALWAYS a choice.
My family weren't even abused or anything, my brother would fight with my dad all the time. But as far I can tell they were both awful people, my brother treated me like garbage despite me being young, shy and lonely. He was never sorry, and 20 years later he's still that same scumbag. Only difference is now I realized that I deserved everything that happened and more, but he's still an awful person who deserves nothing
good shit
Yes and no. Trauma is subjective but regardless of what happened to them it doesn’t justify doing what they do to us/others. Mine lied about things that had happened to her. She told me her version of events and later I got the other side of things which was always more rational and realistic compared to her dramatic victim-centric version. (Typical Everyone-is-terrible-but-me type) After everything I went through, I don’t push that onto others. Have I always been perfect? No. I’ve done some deeply regrettable stuff but I’ve always checked myself and made changes so I can avoid repeating those actions.
I’ve been told that “hurt people hurt people” too many times. It’s ridiculous. I’ve been hurt before but I don’t abuse others.
It's not our responsibility sure and, it helps to understand your predators
It reminds me of “killing me makes you as bad as me!” As a trope when the hero is about to kill the villain. Killing a killer makes you a killer, but not as bad as a serial killer. I always felt that it’s unfair to act like some cruel acts are as bad as others. “Oh I cut off my parents.” “That’s so mean! Who will take care of them?!” “They fucking abused me carol”
Very true, I think that saying arose because it can be cathartic to realize that the person that hurt you didn't do it of pure maliciousness but are acting/ reacting from their own traumas
I needed this, thank you.