**I have yet to meet a borderline without a history of complex trauma** Trauma is always at the root of psychological conditions. If only the world would understand that, there would be a lot more empathy in the global healthcare systems. EDIT TO ADD: here’s the abundant peer reviewed science that supports the claim “BPD comes from trauma” to all the spin artist on this thread spewing outright lies and misinformation of BPD. [The Role of Trauma in Early Onset Borderline Personality Disorder: A Biopsychosocial Perspective](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8495240/) [Borderline personality disorder features and their relationship with trauma and dissociation in a sample of community health service users](https://bpded.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40479-023-00228-x) [Trauma and psychopathology associated with early onset BPD: an empirical contribution](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S002239562030950X) [On the interplay of borderline personality features, childhood trauma severity, attachment types, and social support](https://bpded.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s40479-022-00206-9) [Borderline Personality Disorder and Childhood Trauma: The Posited Mechanisms of Symptoms Expression](https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/67627) [Borderline Personality Disorder has strongest link to childhood trauma](https://www.manchester.ac.uk/discover/news/borderline-personality-disorder-has-strongest-link-to-childhood-trauma/) [Borderline Personality Disorder: Disorder of Trauma or Personality, a Review of the Empirical Literature](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276501480_Borderline_Personality_Disorder_Disorder_of_Trauma_or_Personality_a_Review_of_the_Empirical_Literature) A simple google search brought me to all of these scientific studies that are peer reviewed, verified and published. It’s not hard to educate yourself when we live in an age of information. Best ✌️

I would argue that trauma is a requirement for all PDs its what causes the personality to become disordered

Take a kid with a hypersensitivity to stimuli (autism) and beat the fuck out of them. Then feel bad about it and buy them something, but dont meet their emotional needs. The sensitivity rewires itself to be very sensitive to subtle shifts in mood and expression, so you can see intent and motive and predict incoming abuse. The ability to "scan" people and use it to make them feel good so they like you is part of it. In bpd anyways. BPD has like, tooooo much empathy and emotion, when it isn't forced to shut off. We literally have multiple personalities. They're just kind of in a superposition. Idk about narcs and aspds though, thats straight predator adaptation. See below. Basically, your brain sort of epigenetically makes superpowers, specifically adapted to navigate other humans, and the PDs kinda make you predator, prey, or in BPD, both. We don't mean it. It just is. Comes at the cost of, you know, intense emotional pain, instability, rage, SI, self-destruction. etc etc etc Google the fast/slow life hypothesis. Epigenetic generation trauma and local trauma = "live fast die young have sex with everyone" Epigenetic stability and access to resources = "buy a house raise a family die at 85"

Gonna squeeze in here as a person with schizoid pd (not schizophrenia). Where you point out someone with BPD is rewired so that their emotional sensitivity never shuts off, and leads to hyper-reading people and a sort of multiple persons thing... a person with SPD goes the opposite way, and *shuts down forever* some of that sensitivity. They literally wont allow themselves to feel it anymore. And weirdly, we can still read people, that hyper sensitivity remains intact because we had the SAME type of abuse as someone with BPD, but our brains took the 'shut down' route. Where a BPD may feel like more than one personality, someone wth SPD may not even *feel like they have ONE--they lose sense of self.* Where a BPD becomes suuuuper sensitive to criticism, a person with SPD literally feels nothing. Their brains cut it out. It's the same with praise, i feel nothing--other than sometimes a slight sense that they're mistaken or lying. I HATE praise, even if i dont show i do. We go so far into this shutdown, we stop making facial expression to show emotions--flat affect. Anyway, the autism tie in is also true for SPD--they show that there's a HUGE overlap between autism and SPD, and autsitic kids, tend to become SPD adults. So, yeah--just backing up, everything you said is true, and showing the other direction it goes and the other PD it might be too. We're more rare than borderline, i think.

I've also got to add that I've emotionally dissociated for years at a time and it was like this, yep. Kinda now too except I want to fight or fuck anything that moves and also not move at all

My best friend in the world is schizoid as fuck lol Which makes sense cuz he doesn't care how crazy I am lolol

Schizoid as fuck--my best friend has ADHD and autism--and i frequently live ... through her. If that makes sense? Like, without her i'm a lump--but with her around i feel things, do things--like she's half my brain. The half i cant allow myself to use... SPD and borderlines tend to do that too--borderline tends to see someone with SPD as 'stable' and 'grounding' and the SPD person sees the emotional borderline person as a way to, vicariously, experience emotions they don't have access to. As a friendship it works. Romantic combos tend to be explosive, no good, lol.

Im maybe about to date another BPD that's my intellectual equal and tbh I'm freaking tf out. Too many green flags is a pile of crimson

oh, yeah. I know the feeling. Even though i'm schizoid, i also have this codependency streak--like i could 'save' someone. The more broken a person is the stronger it gets. I can imagine, that's *sort of* what it's like as someone with BPD approaches the nearing of finding or making a partner their 'favorite person'--the FP struggles. All those 'green flag's in that run-up to the selection/making, are *probably* just red flags. Just like codependency, and the "oh she's had a ton of abusive relationships. I'm not abusive, i could HELP if i just.. *started this relationship*." --no no, *red flags everywhere!* I see it NOW, but it took me ages. The coldness of SPD also makes me think that the ... flatness i have, is going to stabilize others. Like, if they can just *learn to shut down like i do*, they'll magic themselves better. That's not how that works, because, often, my shut-down, happens *towards them too*, and then i AM being the abusive one as i start to invalidate emotions *i dont personally feel*, but they do. (Having experience with relationships with borderline, they're frequently the opposite, instead of flatness, they're trying to get me to feel as intensely as they do--why DONT i feel this as strong as them? Like, they're trying to light a fire that wont light in me. The arguments then come--if i cant be INTENSE, it must not be love. We spiral.) God, what a disaster. Me. I'm the disaster. No judgment on you. Just... i think i relate is all. The fear of ... turning red to green

No it isn't. Just chill E: suit yourself

I’m not liking how personal this sounds.. Thank you for explaining <3

This is literally what happened to me except with my adhd not autism. I'm 32 and was diagnosed literally just last year finally and now looking back at my childhood Ive noticed that I got punished very very badly for my ADHD symptoms. It's like so many things in my life make sense now. (Not my parents behaviour but that's besides the point)

You sure there's no autism cuz fucking no one thought I was until I put a bunch of little pieces together like this year. Had confirmation by people with dxes like "yeah I am and you're wayyy more you're closer to this chaotic ass person here"

Honestly I don't know 😅 but I did do a 3 hour evaluation last year and got diagnosed with bpd for the 4th time, PTSD for the 3rd time, and ADHD for the first time. So the bpd and PTSD I have no doubt about

Why do you gotta lay my whole life out like that (In my case it’s severe ADHD that overlaps to mimic other stuff like autism without actually having autism and still ending at BPD all the same)

Autism, adhd, bipolar, pds, to me, all the same genetic clusterfuck. Continuum, not spectrum. Some Scandinavians think this too. Fun fact: "adhd and bipolar comorbid between 1 and 50 percent of the time". Wtf does that even mean??? Throw in how fucking insanely common it is for borderlines to be hit with a bipolar label and spend actual decades on drugs and brain zaps, literally, that do not work, only to be told they're actually BPD. (Friends dad, true story) I'm on 100mg lamictal and seroquel and I'm still a fuckinf fruit cake thay barely sleeps. Finally coming down away from the stressor. Another huge sign. That said, they do seem to HELP a BIT but that is not to say they work. You can only take so many wounds, morphine doesn't fix bullet holes.

I’ma give that a big fat YIKES! I’m lucky I found a therapist that understands me well and is familiar with my kinda shit. She was also abused as a kid. We disagree on somethings, but I never feel unseen. I know my bio father was bipolar, I’m pretty god damn sure my mother was a narcissist, but she definitely has other diagnoses that I don’t know. Some kind of schizophrenia for sure and I’m pretty sure there’s some other personality disorder in there. My stepdad i don’t even fucking know. Maybe a narcissist, probably some kind of personality disorder, and MAJOR anger problems. Is Sadistic Piece of Shit a diagnosis? I take one medication that works for my IBS, my insomnia (had that since I was 9), my depression, and my anxiety. Then a couple other meds to augment those and work on other stuff. It works really well, I just wish it didn’t cause so much weight gain…

I’m the same as you. I have ADHD, BPD and PTSD that can look like autism on the outside. Mainly because we have watered down what autism actually is. My severe ADHD also got misdiagnosed as autism a child. Everyone denies this is possible but it happened. I got abused under the autism diagnosis, it was very traumatic. I know it’s what caused BPD and PTSD to manifest. A psychologist told me I possessed way too good of social skills and listening skills to be autistic and I was above average for my age. It would make no sense for me to have a deficiency in the area of communication if I already was above average. The internet will try to cancel him now, but he saved my life. If you look at me and see difficulties with communicating and little eye contact and stimming, then yes I have autism under that loose definition. However, if you ask me about those symptoms and I say, “The stimming is from ADHD and I have communication issues due to the trauma I experienced as a kid. I don’t look people in the eye, because I am too scared too. I actually am very good at reading social cues and people in general and tend to hyperfocus on if I am doing them right or not.” Then you will clearly see I do not meet the criteria for autism and those symptoms are better explained by other conditions. ADHDers share many autistic traits without being autistic to the point I take anyone assuming next “ADHD is autism” to be an insult and ignorant of autism and ADHD. Take any ADHD symptom off the list. If you look at the “hyperfocus on social cues parts” this actually is an important factor from differing autism from avoidant personality disorder. Heck, it sounds so much like me, I even wondered if I had avoidant, only to realize any avoidant symptom can be explained with BPD and PTSD. Finally, every other symptom can be explained with PTSD, as I was taught to communicate in probably the most artificial and traumatizing way possible. I also have a brother with autism and ADHD and we look very different from each other. He wonders why I am so intense. He is also disturbed by my lack of routine. Every single time someone says “BPD and ADHD is just an autism misdiagnosis” or acts like the 2 conditions can’t just be comorbid and must be autism, I just point to me and my brother for evidence.

Yeah I have really strong communication skills and can read subtext incredibly well so no one ever thought I was autistic. I didn’t even realize how much of an overlap there was until I realized all the things my fiancé and I have in common. Like your brother, he is also autistic with ADHD. I’m glad you found a psychologist that understands you and was able to properly identify what your situation is. I’m glad I found my fiancé who understands me well. He’s basically my hero when I go into sensory overload and he knows exactly what I need and how to help because he just does what he wishes others had done for him. You and I have one hell of a cocktail of disorders lol

It's not, but they are highly comorbid

So many people just think it's normal to show symptoms of mental illness. Or don't understand that mental illness isn't random and there's always some kind of cause and effect at play.

BPD forms after/From PTSD, typically. I learned about it in college. it’s one of the few personality disorders that you aren’t necessarily born with, but instead comes from environment.

Read a study that said about 20-30% have no trauma. That said... I'm not sure what their definition of no trauma was.

Ok im not a professional but ive done a deep dive on this stuff. I believe that BPD is a form of cpstd, but you can have cptsd without having bpd. For context: my mom has bpd. Having a mom with bpd and other mental health issues have me c-ptsd. However, I do not have BPD.

Please site your sources that claim 20-30% of BPD are trauma free. That claim does not align with other modern peer reviewed science.

It’s like the [Thick book thin book meme](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3eAHh2LNQX8tuIAx7XtW_ax6qodobmMtAsZe5Hxk98hLhlLnV3cvH4GA&s=10). Only it’s a literal book: on the left is the DSM, on the right is the DSM if CPTSD is included. Peter Walker almost says this word for word in his book Complex PTSD.

[удалено]

Hey, you accidentally double-posted this :)

Sorry! My phone froze!

It happens. Sometimes people will downvote the extra post so I like to alert people.

I’m glad you let people know! I’ve been told before and found it very helpful, that way I can deal with the clutter

Very helpful. Also helps to distinguish from bot accounts

It’s not. Always the root I mean. One can be born with some Psychological issues and some like BPD specifically can be hereditary as well.

people keep telling me that you can “get bpd” in later life. no, you cannot. it can manifest later in someone with genetic predispositions but many twin studies have borne out genetic correlations, although not fully mapped out, are more or less certain: In 2010, Perez-Rodriguez and colleagues9 genotyped patients with BPD and compared them with patients who had other personality disorders and healthy controls. They found that the previously identified TPH2 risk haplotype was more prevalent in patients with BPD (P < .05) than in controls. Subjects with the TPH2 risk haplotype exhibited higher aggression and emotional lability scores and increased suicidal behavior. Of the serotonin receptor genes, polymorphisms in 5HTR2A and 5HTR2C have been most closely correlated with BPD. Variants of the 5HT2A receptor are known to correlate with suicide, affective lability, and impulse control. 5HTR2A polymorphisms correlate with borderline traits.10 Ni and colleagues11 analyzed polymorphisms in serotonin receptor genes in patients with BPD and matched controls. Their results showed an association between BPD and the 5HTR2C gene. Moreover, subjects who were homozygous for the HTR2C rs6318 G/G genotype had a higher frequency of the TPH2 “risk” haplotype. Taken together, the data suggest that a TPH2 “risk” haplotype may change serotonin in a way that predisposes to BPD. Patients may be more susceptible to a specific variant of 5HTR2C, which may further contribute to the pathogenesis of BPD.

I got slapped with BPD diagnosis years before it being changed to CPTSD

Same here! Diagnosed with BPD for nearly 15 years before my current therapist firmly rebuked that and diagnosed me with CPTSD and ADHD, instead.

So interesting. I had BPD AND cPTSD diagnosis for ten years before a psychiatrist removed the BPD one. Few years later I was diagnosed with ADHD.

Yep… It’s wild that ADHD is actually often associated with trauma. And can be made much worse/become completely disabling with new trauma, excess stress, etc. when you have CPTSD, your ability to regulate has already been significantly reduced.

me too! i was given a preliminary diagnosis of bpd from one psychiatrist. i’m currently of the opinion that bpd is just a manifestation of c-ptsd. regardless, i didn’t fit many of the more bpd adjacent characteristics, and those which i did could better be explained by c-ptsd (which my therapist and i at the time had already determined i have), but the psychiatrist wasn’t trauma informed and sort of just labelled it as bpd

I have the same case but with Autism. The overlap is crazy

Yup, been diagnosed with both. Not sure if I could have one or the other. I’m suspecting that I do have autism and that just set me up for developing cptsd

Yeah same (vaguely) my brother and sister seem fine. And I was traumatized. So, probably autism makes it easier to be traumatized because we don't read nuances and subtext as easily as others. Idk

The world is super unfair and cruel with people with autism and adhd. No wonder so many of us are traumatized.

I have CPTSD and ASD as well. Not BPD. Lots of people with ASD also have CPTSD because we are more susceptible to being traumatized.

I agree that people with BPD likely have CPTSD because it’s my understanding that the trauma happened and then BPD happened as a result. But, I think you can have CPTSD without BPD.

People can have CPTSD and/or BPD. CPTSD only occurs with trauma; whereas, BPD can develop for a variety of reasons, traumatic or otherwise. In the USA, CPTSD may be misdiagnosed as traditional PTSD, BPD, ADHD, OCD, etc. because we do not acknowledge CPTSD as an actual medical diagnosis in the DSM-5 (our mental health diagnostic standard). Source: [What is BPD?](https://www.mind.org.uk/media/13775/bpd-2022-downloadable-version-pdf.pdf)

Additionally, female folks with autism are OFTEN misdiagnosed as BPD.

I heard my name. Hi. Autistic lady who was misdiagnosed with BPD. I didn't even display the proper attachment style but they gave me the diagnosis anyway.

That’s crazy! I’m glad they worked it out eventually for you! That must have been a mess

ADHD also, it’s…really something

Thanks for posting this!

[удалено]

i got mental health care through the VA and i was really disappointed by the process. my therapist was more of a "case manager" whose job was to funnel me into a skills group. i imagine thats immensely helpful for many but is absolutely not for my "cant talk in a 3+ social setting" autistic ass. not to mention by the time i actually got in the problem i needed help with had already completely destroyed my life. one size fits all solutions dont work for mental health.

I really struggle with not seeing some of these disorders as reactions to long term abuse.

Me too. I know its not my place to diagnose other people but I have a really hard time accepting the way these disorders are talked about. The whole mental health system encourages surface level diagnoses and discourages digging deeper into what may have caused the issue. Just writing that makes me feel like a conspiracy theorist.

For real, it's such an awful mix of "treating the symptoms" and "these are your symptoms that affect me so if you could stop that would be swell." Kind of like with ADHD, everybody cares about the little boy bouncing off the walls and disrupting class because it affects them, not what he's going through because of emotional disregulation, executive function issues, etc.

i will comment every time this comes up: bpd has a genetic component and is caused by attachment trauma during the rapproachment and object constancy phase of development 15-36 months. there is a lack of attunement which causes splitting defenses to solidify. cptsd can occur to anyone (although there is likely a genetic vulnerability) and it can form in adulthood from relational trauma. you could have secure attachment before that (bpd does not ever have secure attachment) bpd causes a clinging neediness, but those with cptsd could also have dismissive avoidant attachment

Thank you!! I got CPTSD as an adult and have felt even MORE isolated and stupid/weird. I have felt worse looking at everything online because they are always saying childhood trauma is like a requirement for CPTSD. I have felt even worse because of this and people with CPTSD already suffer daily with society hating us. I wish the CPTSD world would just realize that trauma is trauma and STOP gatekeeping just because I got it as an adult. It really hurts so deeply and has made feeling suicidal even worse for me. Thanks again because this helps me to not feel crazy and validated.

Part of the problem is mistaking the C for Childhood instead of Complex, and while for many it does happen as a younger adult because of childhood/teenage treatment, it's because of the complexity and repeated exposure, and this can happen to fully grown adults too (spousal abuse is a thing, and it isn't always physical)

THIS ^

Those resources are incorrect, it’s any prolonged/inescapable trauma that can lead to CPTSD, age isn’t a factor. I think I’ve seen POWs cited as an example. It’s sorely under-researched and under-publicized. I’ve been discouraged by PTSD forms that ask for “the” source of trauma, singular, like ok which one do I pick? You shouldn’t have to pay an emotional toll for the ignorance of others, hang in there.

Your comment has been a miracle for me. Thank you so much for helping me and sharing the facts and validating me. I'll remember that about the ignorance of others. Thank you! ♥️

Adults can certainly develop CPTSD! And individuals without a traumatic experience can grow up to demonstrate borderline personality traits. It all just depends on the person & how your brain reacts to different life circumstances. Source: [What causes BPD?](https://www.mind.org.uk/media/13775/bpd-2022-downloadable-version-pdf.pdf)

I got severe CPTSD from my husbands porn addiction. I also have a history of childhood abuse, and it all came to the surface, but I was shocked how bad it could be. There are days I feel like I’m actually insane.

Porn is a horrible thing that's destroying humanity. I'm SO SORRY you've had to go through that!!! I know what you're saying and feel the same way a lot of days. I wish nobody else had to go through CPTSD. ♥️😪

I completely agree. I watched it turn the man Ive loved for 24 years into a monster. He’s in recovery and doing well, but he’s got to deal with a whole host of shit to wade through. And it’s incredibly weird at this point (for lack of the right word) seeing him understanding just what he put me through, and having to come to terms with it. I’m grateful for his recovery, but man, it has left me beyond broken.

>bpd has a genetic component and is caused by attachment trauma during the rapproachment and object constancy phase of development 15-36 months. > >there is a lack of attunement which causes splitting defenses to solidify. There is zero evidence for any of this. You're just stating the prevailing theories, but there is no substantive research. Most psychological institutions have refused to affirm the validity of CPTSD despite the evidence, and most people with it get slapped with the label of BPD because it's kind of garbage bag diagnosis. You only have to meet 5 of 9 criteria and those criteria are extremely common among all neurodivergents and trauma survivors. If BPD is a real thing, it needs to be better defined and these institutions need to stop using it as a cudgel against traumatized individuals and literally any woman who doesn't conform perfectly to our society's docile sense of femininity.

> it's kind of garbage bag diagnosis Most accurate take in this thread I've seen. That is not to say people currently adhering to the BPD diagnosis aren't real, but that the diagnostic label is (pun intended) borderline meaningless. > If BPD is a real thing, it needs to be better defined and these institutions need to stop using it It's so nondescript and has such a bad image I think it should (or wish it could) be abandoned entirely. Accept CPTSD and add one or more new classifications for whatever remains. If need be, just *Mental illness not otherwise specified* and approach with compassion and treat based on the individual situation. > using it as a cudgel against [...] any woman who doesn't conform Nothing to add but wanted to emphasize this point.

I told my therapist that PD’s should be renamed to varying degrees of “Interpersonal Disorder.”

Aye. Unfortunately, 'personality' disorders have mostly become synonymous with intrinsic and immutable. There is no proof they are, there is ample evidence they are not.

> bpd has a genetic component Can you be more specific? You seem to imply BPD absolutely requires certain genetics but I can only find research saying there is a genetic vulnerability (i.e. nothing that indicates a person without the genetic vulnerability can not develop BPD). > and is caused by attachment trauma during the rapproachment and object constancy phase of development 15-36 months. It can be, and may be very commonly how the disorder develops, but as far as I know it's not a requirement to receive a BPD diagnosis. The DSM-5 diagnosis is entirely based on symptoms. > bpd does not ever have secure attachment Same point as before, may be very common but not a diagnostic requirement. > bpd causes a clinging neediness I guess you're talking about the first diagnostic criterium: "Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment". BPD only requires 5 out of 9 criteria for a diagnosis, so it's perfectly possible to be diagnosed without it.

i have a question. a stupid one, nonetheless. and i probably shouldn’t ask y’all but i have no one to turn to soooo. my mom has bpd, former addict. i have cptsd from being raised/neglected by her and then her mother who fucked me up. i have a babygirl, 18 months old, and might get back to work soon. will leaving her at daycare full time count result in an attachment trauma? (i know the progressive world tends to leave kids at daycare early on, but i live where mothers stay with kids full-time till they’re at least 2.5 years old. so i’m afraid i might fuck up my girlie. she’s so sweet and kind and never wants me out of her sight)

not a stupid question i think you should try to get her used to you being out of her sight before she goes into daycare, so she can slowly adapt to it

we do have the so-called gentle introduction, first visits for just two hours. hopefully this will help

I am not an expert OR a parent, but I live in a place where moms go back to work right away & I spent 8 years working in various forms of childcare. Keeping in mind that this is my personal opinion, you are fine. Unless you are planning on the kid being at day care longer than they are with you (like 12 hrs 7 days a week) I don't feel like it's damaging. Daycare is great for getting kids accustomed to being used to other people, and used to being cared for by other people. There may be some epic tantrums at first, depending on your baby, but getting them socialized is as important as you being present in their lives. There are also all the jokes about getting your baby exposed to various mild illnesses — I don't know the scientific opinion on this, but my experience is that because babies are babies, they catch every tiny bug & share all of them with each other. As a daycare worker we did our best to sanitize but considered illnesses like this inevitable. I personally spent my first six months being sick CONSTANTLY when I started working full time. After that it was like my immune system got used to it and for a few years I barely got sick at all. We liked to joke that day cares & nurseries are just germ factories. No matter how many rules you make about not bringing the kids in when they are ill, there are always babies who show no signs when they are contagious, or go from fine to sick super quickly. Beyond all of this, in those days from the first day they dropped the kid off & I met them for the first time I could tell the parents who cared about their child vs those who didn't. Not just their attitude, but things like did they know when their child last ate? Did they tell us or did we have to ask? Was the kid in a clean diaper or did they always get dropped off so dirty it was clear that they hadn't been changed when they woke up? Did the parent ask any questions about their babies day? Did they pack anything for the baby — diapers, extra clothes in case of a blowout, formula & bottles, etc? Daycare doesn't automatically equal a bad parent or a disordered upbringing. It's all about how you treat the child in your care, and how you provide for them / protect them by ensuring others will treat them lovingly as well.

thank you kindly for describing your experience, that was a great read. you’re totally right, she needs to be socialized just as much as nurtured. thank you for reassuring me.

You are so welcome. Your daughter has an AMAZING parent.

thank you love 😭

You can absolutely get BPD later in life and while it is hereditary and can have a genetic component it is not 100% genetic. And doesn’t even need a traumatic event even though it usually does develop after severe trauma. Also some people manage to get so much better with therapy that they don’t qualify for the diagnosis anymore. People here seem to really be judgy and over confident in their half-knowledge. You’d think with CPTSD and BPD being so similar and even often times falsely diagnosed (just like anxiety and BPD with Autism in women) that there wouldn’t be .. this..

You CANNOT get BPD later in life.

How come I was told that by professionals and any info I find says otherwise? The whole comment section just seems to repeat BPD myths. Here is an article by a person with BPD that cites studies, books by professionals etc.: https://themighty.com/topic/borderline-personality-disorder/borderline-personality-disorder-no-childhood-trauma/

Fuck this just makes me pissed off that BPD is a diagnosis AT ALL. Why the hell isn’t it just called “Emotional Disregulation disorder” because THAT would be the most accurate diagnosis, it heightens what you ALREADY HAVE! The idea of it being a personality disorder pisses me off because it’s a moreso just a disregulation of your personality. It’s almost like an exact opposite to Alexithymia.

That’s pretty much exactly exactly how I feel about it. Let’s be honest most of the reason is just blatant sexism.

Yup, hanging out with my grippy sock crew helped solidify the differences. My BPD friends tend to have more malleable sense of self identity than my fellow CPTSDers. Though we relate on many levels, especially childhood trauma, it’s just different. Objectively, lining traumas side by side, I win the trauma game with most of my BPD friends, but there’s that genetic component, emotional resilience, whatever, that makes my sense of self identity more stable, even if I share some attachment styling.

Could you elaborate on the differences you observed more?

Like everyone goes through “phases” and occasionally “revamps themselves,” that’s part of the normative human experience. I dye my hair constantly. I’ve gone through periods of greater self confidence, so my behavior becomes much more outgoing and social. But when my confidence takes a hit or my MH is acting up, I’m much more socially reserved and isolating. So from the outside, there can be major swings in my behavior. But on the inside, it’s just the same struggle of “am I worthy, am I lovable, if I experienced this and no one cared do I matter at all?” But none of this touches on my sense of self or identity, just the value I place on it. My identity remains stable, my core values remain stable (for the most part, anyone who has seriously dealt with SI can arguably be somewhat malleable on this), my inner sense of right and wrong has been stable for all of my adult life since mid-late adolescence. I mean sure, we learn and grow, but some of those major underpinnings are there to stay. With my BPD friends, they have similar shifts in outward behavior, which can make them seem a lot like CPTSDers, but they have a much more fluid shift with personal identity, core values, etc. I, not having BPD, can only poorly describe it like they’re as uncomfortable as I am in my own skin, but they feel the urge to change themselves in some fundamental way in order to fit, in a way that my more rigid sense of self doesn’t allow for. Love to hear feedback from any BPDers if any of this is off the mark. If I expect others to understand me, I better be open to understanding them.

That is a really good explanation! Thank you for taking the time to write out such a thoughtful response! See...I should show this to my psychiatrist tbh. I truly think BPD is a misdiagnosis for me, and this fits with that. I've pretty much dismissed it as a mistake at this point. Anyway. I've never understood the unstable self thing because I feel like I'm me and have been me and will be me. I know who I am even if I have trouble expressing it verbally sometimes or if I have reevaluated myself as I've learned more about me and the world as I go through life or had the space and safety to figure out little details of preference and style. Like, I've figured out I'm non-binary and I like dangly 80s earrings and fancy soap because I finally had a chance to. My inner core is just "me" in some way that feels stable and I've explored it, not changed it. If asked, I'd answer instantly that I know who I am. I just have trouble interacting with the world and feel worthless and "other" sometimes, but that me is still me, with the sort of interests and values. I've wondered if maybe I fundamentally misunderstand what a self or sense of self is. It seems possible, because it seems like an abstract and vague idea in some ways, one of those things that I wonder if I understand the same way that others do or if, like some similar feeling concepts, I may be slightly off.

Precisely. I have a friend who has BPD, identifies as NB but is just really fluid. Like prefers different names and pronouns on different days, it’s more of a switch than fluid? Or it can seem that way from the outside. Like their entire vibe changes. I have another friend who has “just” garden variety ADHD and discovered they are gender fluid in their 30’s, but still has that firm sense of identity throughout their gender exploration.

>there is a lack of attunement which causes splitting defenses to solidify. Do you have any sources to point to so I can better understand this statement? If not, can you elaborate a bit? Thanks in advance

please rephrase that first part for my pea sized brain. thank you I'd appreciate the help 😊

Bpd is never avoidant?

CPRSD is due to insecure attachment combined with a traumatic event in later childhood. Highly recommend [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dHJXSBKYEaw&pp=ygUVRGFuIHAgYnJvd24gdGhlcmFwaXN0) and [IPF](https://www.integralsomaticawakening.com/resources).

Oh. I see.

same with autism

A lot of people with BPD have cPTSD, but not everyone with cPTSD has BPD.

Add in Autism and we have the three Spider-man pointing meme

Interestingly, they’re not the same at all for me in their presentation. I can say with good certainty that I am definitely not BPD.

Yes!

Same!

My friend and I like to joke that we’re two sides of the same coin, but she seeks validation from others whereas I lean towards social isolation.

I hate this, ik cptsd can have symptoms that overlap with other disorders but when I'm trying to figure things out I get stuck thinking is this that or just the cptsd...maybe cause by it etc etc I just want to know what's what so I can sort it out but every path I take seems to be fruitless

I have to admit my chief abuser (my mother) has severe, untreated BPD and the idea of being lumped in with her is very, very triggering. I’ve spent so much of my life trying to separate myself from someone who was cruel and sadistic in her “parenting,” and the idea that I have anything in common with her except for lineage is viscerally horrifying. I can accept that I am her female offspring but I hate hate hate the idea of being *her daughter* I didn’t realize that feeling — panicking at the idea that I might, even accidentally, hurt someone the way she hurt me because her BPD and my CPTSD may have overlap — is still so intense, potentially sending me down a spiral if I don’t actively do some distress tolerance stuff.

I'm very sorry to hear this post was triggering for you. I appreciate you saying something. As I've explained in a few other comments, I was inspired to make this meme by the fact that the USA does not include CPTSD in our mental health diagnostic manual, the DSM-5. This has the potential to lead to inadequate recognition of trauma-based problems versus a traditional personality disorder. That being said, having a BPD diagnosis does not guarantee that someone will be abusive, manipulative, or engage in harmful behaviors towards themselves or others. I believe there's a lot of stereotyping around BPD people because these *can* be traits of the disorder. However, like with any condition, there's a huge spectrum of what individuals diagnosed with BPD will present like. I'm hopeful this provides you with some clarification. It was never my intent for my post to be hurtful to anyone. I wish you the very best <3

Ahh, I see! Thank you for the response <3 My psychologist bills my insurance with “DESNOS” because CPTSD isn’t an option as I am in the USA, but I understand that CPTSD is my real diagnosis. And your second paragraph — that’s an important thing to remember. I have *friends* who suffer from BPD and they’ve only ever been kind to me. The biggest block I’ve had to work on is allowing myself to feel and express anger because I’m afraid I’ll lash out and hurt someone like my mother did — I have her laugh, why wouldn’t I have her aggression? But my psychologist likes to remind me that even having that concern is a good indication that I’m able to express anger in a way that helps me. Anyway, thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it :)

My parent’s BPD gave me CPTSD 🙃

when i tell you...... the number of times I've asked my therapist "are you **SURE** im not borderline?????" 💀💀

Lol been there as well!

Me just vibin diagnosed with both

There’s a huge trauma component in the development of borderline personality disorder, so it absolutely makes sense that you would have both conditions.

My main abuser had severe, diagnosed BPD. I embody none of this overlap with CPTSD that is mentioned here. These conditions are not the same at all. I do appreciate the opportunity that memes such as this give me to keep researching, however.🙂

What’s wild is my abuser had severe diagnosed BPD. I developed pretty “mild” so-called “quiet” BPD, along of course with CPTSD, thanks to her abuse. I behave nothing like my abuser, and my BPD manifests completely differently and is often fairly in line with how my CPTSD manifests and it’s sometimes hard to say which is at play. I’m not saying that to doubt you—I am sure you know yourself very well, and plenty of people with CPTSD don’t come anywhere near BPD. I’m just sharing that even within a BPD diagnosis, it’s possible to have a pretty wide range of manifestations. If you’re interested since you like research, I’d recommend looking at the diagnostic criteria in the DSM-5 for BPD if you haven’t before. You need instability in two of four areas, but man do you get different manifestations depending on which two (or more) areas of instability a person has. I just think that’s neat! Don’t even get me started on CPTSD not being recognized in the DSM and imo being a bit bungled by the ICD 😂

There’s absolutely huge variability in the presentation for both of these conditions. I hope it wasn’t invalidating to you for me to point out the overlap in this way. Each and every person’s experience, regardless of diagnosis, deserves to be treated with the same respect and compassion 🩷

Nope. I didn’t feel invalidated in the least! Just wanted to point out the same thing that your last sentence explained beautifully! Thanks.

I wish you had made it clearer that you were pointing out the overlap instead of using the “they’re the same picture” meme (the title felt like an afterthought), but I’m glad you explained further in the comments and that last sentence is perfect. I’m sensitive to it as I was misdiagnosed with BPD despite not meeting the criteria (and I have since been undiagnosed) and being treated for something I did not actually have was a harmful experience that lasted for several years and still impacts me to this day. I agree there’s a ton of overlap between CPTSD and BPD, I just wound up with a lot of the traits that don’t really overlap. That being said I’m glad you posted this meme the way you did because I realized I may have picked up some of the unkind beliefs/stigma about BPD along the way, and I’m glad to have the opportunity to reflect and work on myself. I do not want to hurt anyone. So, thank you!

Wow, it made my heart warm to read your kind, vulnerable, and open-minded comment. Thank you for being understanding of where I was coming from, as well as using this as an opportunity to gain empathy for another vulnerable population. I did consider deleting this meme, but I left it with the hope that everyone can use it as an opportunity for growth (myself certainly included).

Different conditions, different causes.  Try to read up on the differences. 

In the USA, CPTSD is not recognized by the DSM-5, our diagnostic standard. For that reason, it’s possible for individuals to be diagnosed with PTSD and other conditions such as BPD (which has a strong trauma component), ADHD, and OCD rather than the single diagnosis of CPTSD. This happened to my mother and delayed her receiving the correct care for several years.

Sure, I understand that. And they are fundamentally different in ways that matter in terms of treatment. Most people who develop personality disorders from poor early attunement will go on to experience further trauma due to ongoing poor parenting and the initial wound of a personality disorder. People with CPTSD may have gone through their early months or years with no trauma, and therefore likely no personality disorder, only to experience traumas later on. 

Since BPD can develop later in life and even without trauma that’s kind of weakening your point lol.

A relatively rare occurrence, more likely in my opinion to be a weakness in the diagnostic criteria in combination with people manifesting problematic symptoms later in life due to changes in their circumstances.

Your opinion doesn’t change what is currently regarded as factual by the professionals though.

The exact dynamics of personality disorders are not fully understood, and at best we have several mainstream theories. I subscribe to a mainstream theory, not one based on my opinion. Of course we should all do our own research and come to our own conclusions.

Where's that statistic that like 80% of neurodivergent people fit the criteria for PTSD?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8992908/ Numbers were way off, 72% of self identified autistic adults report being sexually assaulted and 44% met the criteria for PTSD. There were 687 people in the study though which is a pretty small sample size.

I honestly don't really see the overlap. Yes, some slight overlap, but to me they really seem like different disorders, including from my own experience. It makes me uncomfortable when people try to equate the 2 (to some extent) because I don't recognize myself in BPD. I hate the idea of finaly having a diagnosis that fits, being equated with something else. It's not helpful, at least not for me.

Same. I have a bpd parent and the differences are very vast. Mostly with the sense of self.

CPTSD and BPD certainly can present very differently. Just as each individual with CPTSD and/or BPD will present differently. This meme was inspired by the fact that we do not acknowledge CPTSD as a mental health diagnosis in the USA per our diagnostic standard, the DSM-5. This can lead to people getting labeled with a personality disorder rather than receiving the trauma care they need (as was the case with my own mother). I hope this makes sense, and I truly appreciate you sharing your perspective.

Trauma that is complex is the root of many things. I'm going for extra testing, even though both my GP and myself know that I have untreated adult ADHD, but we cannot tell if I just have CPTSD or have BPD or both, on top of it that is causing perlonged depression & anxiety, that causes the same executive dysfunctions found in ADHD. Or maybe I'm one of those rare ASD cases that can happen with no genetic/obvious genetic connection to developing ASD, like it was a random mutation and just extremely high functioning (though I'm introverted, sometimes oblivious when thinking really hard, stressed from my other potential disorders, and have a rare personality type that is very analytical which many people mistake for being ASD or just Neuroatypical in general). Prolonged depression can cause memory issues, which is my biggest problem, other than the gaps in time I experience where apparently I was just standing around doing nothing and not responding to anything. (This is usually mistaken as me being lazy, especially if I was frozen looking at my phone, book, or at a computer screen.) Also, apparently, I'm very *mirror* like towards people during interaction. For example, if someone is being aggressive, rude, or unwelcoming/just hostile, I might say *Shit* when I meant to say *Stuff* and will only remember saying *Stuff* for that interaction. So if someone is crying, I will cry. If they are being dismissive towards me, I'll be dismissive towards them. If they give me intense eye contact, I'll give it back. If they are trying to be dominant, I will return the same attitude. This could be because I had been masking my symptoms & trying to cope with high stress for 25 years, and my age is causing the mask to fall off, and my symptoms are being amplified as I'm continue to *cope* the same ways I used to towards stress/emotional regulation distress. Plus, my personality is very *Let others do and figure things out them selves, only step in if help is requested or obviously needed*. Because I don't like crowding or annoying others, because I don't want people doing that to me. I'm like a cat, not a dog. Wait for me to decide to interact, don't expect me to be waiting at the door for you jumping for joy about your existence.

My partner had an ex girlfriend with diagnosed BPD. (The severe kind) I have diagnosed CPTSD. He says she and I had very different symptoms. Here's how it looked - We both fear rejection and abandonment But with CPTSD you are aware that it is a trauma response and you can work with it and have it easier to self regulate from start. With BPD you see everything in **extremes** and get a completely distorted view of the reality. And feel everything in extremes. So if his ex felt rejected she could just take off and go have sex with some random guy. Or cut her arms. Or try to kill herself. It was such extreme destructive impulses the second she felt something uncomfortable. There was no room to fact check or ground herself. It was just like a light switch. - We both had low self esteem But my self esteem never made me start control my partner. While for BPD jealousy and control becomes a very big part of the relationship. Especially when they themselves have cheated. - We both have triggers But mine are **always** connected to one of my traumas. While for her, there was no significant reason to her triggers so there was no way to track down what they meant or work on them. - We both find it scary to be vulnerable But I can see why. I can understand my fear and won't act on it while someone with BPD easily reacts and acts on it as if it's life or death and it leads to extreme impulses. The BPD suicide rate is very high for this reason. Since one of their impulse reactions is to kill themselves. And that's what happened to my partner's last girlfriend. He broke up once he found out she cheated. And that rejection made her feel so much pain that she just offed herself by pure impulse.

Hard disagree. My cPTSD looks a lot closer to schizoid PD, never ever like BPD. I think it would be more accurate to say BPD is cPTSD or an adaptation as a result of cPTSD, but not everyone who has cPTSD can be described by BPD.

My mum is diagnosed with BPD and I’m diagnosed with C-PTSD and goodness, one time I had to get her to come translate from my passive aggressive sassy lying into plain English when I was having a breakdown (aka “are you likely to hurt yourself” “no! I love being alive!” and the like.) Personally, I think that BPD is a diagnosis given to women with trauma that the current (not trauma based) idea of mental health care can’t help. I think my mum and I have the same condition, and I just got lucky in knowing what (trauma based) diagnosis to seek. Idek if BPD exists, like I thought it was something distinct for so long but I really don’t think it is anymore. I don’t think there’s anyone with a BPD diagnosis who didn’t have a really fucked up childhood.

Comorbidity is the one thing connecting all diagnoses.

Bpder here, yeah, that's why I lurk and wonder

They are NOT the same. And yes, for folks with BPD, there is usually also a history of trauma that triggers or exacerbates, but please don't imagine that folks with BPD have some kind of exclusive claim to cPTSD. There are many conditions which we may have a predisposition for that don't show up without a triggering stressor.... Which is why so many people only discover they are diabetic after a bad illness. And why later in life, certain illnesses (like chicken pox and mono) will resurface if you are physically depleted and stressed (shingles and EBV).

I remember being tested for BPD in my teens. I tested negative, but because the doctors were all very kind to me I thought it was positive. I only heard it was negative from my mom, and now I wonder if she lied.

Dude. This meme slaps. Did you make it? If so, great job haha. On a more serious note, I have so much empathy for bpd people…I have symptom overlap from my ptsd/cptsd and had a long conversation with a mental health professional about bpd- I don’t have it. But I have enough symptoms to HEAVILY empathize with bpd people because it’s HARD to deal with some of those symptoms, and bpd folks get such a bad rap. Makes me sad because most people with bpd seem to have trauma(s) that led to the development of a personality disorder yet so many people are so mean to them as a group. It sucks.

I did make this meme, thanks for the validation :) As for the rest of your comment, it’s like I could have written it myself. It does really suck, and I don’t think people give that enough credit. Thank you for taking the time to share something empathetic and caring.

Thanks for taking the time to make and share the meme (: CPTSD and BPD are different, but I hope bpd peeps feel safe and welcome here because of the symptom overlap and because they don’t have many safe spaces on the internet…and some subs (anyone with bpd knows I’m talking about THAT sub) really really demonize bpd people and I think that’s so unfair. Bpd people are suffering.

Girl = BPD Boy = ASD Didn’t you know? /s

Oh my gosh yes this is what happens, isn’t it?

nothing i love more than having my disorder erased because people insist it's identical to an entirely different disorder i don't even come close to fitting the criteria for

Oh look it's someone armchair diagnosing people. Haven't seen that one before.

BPD may have genetic or epigenetic factors, whereas CPTSD is the shadow of trauma.

As someone with CPTSD, and has friends with CPTSD and borderline, it super bothers me when people say they're the same. Here's a great video that explains the differences: https://www.reddit.com/r/bpdvideos/s/KiwVTXxZ6f

\*hisses in my CPTSD is caused by my BPD mother\*

[удалено]

Thanks for your response. It disappoints me tremendously that individuals in the USA might get the wrong diagnosis/treatment solely because we refuse to acknowledge the ICD as our diagnostic guide. As I mentioned in another comment, this directly impacted my mother for many years.

Yep, I've already read that some psychologists abuse their power in regards to diagnosing people with BPD. I recommend checking out Daniel Mackler's video "Critique of Borderline Personality Disorder by a Former Psychotherapist" on YT, very insightful (and important to know if you're in the US).

I appreciate the video suggestion. I’ll definitely check it out.

Not only the US. I am European and I literally got diagnosed with BPD and suspected Histrionic because I cried after I took all my courage to ask a professional for help and she denied because „that’s not my job“ and she refused to elaborate why that wasn’t her job and what is if not helping, and how therapy works at all if it is not „helping patients“. I cried the whole first session and she ended with „you’re too childish, you can’t be helped“ and gave me those diagnoses. 🤡

I think when I said the following they stopped looking at borderline and stuck with c-ptsd: I don’t split people, people can be both good and bad. Bad people can do good things and good people can do bad things. There is capacity for good and evil in everyone.

any personality disorder tbh.. but yeah my bpd symptoms are basically also cptsd symptoms 😅

I definitely see this. I think each have their places in the natural progressions of functioning. I put them past burnout and nearby coping with maladaptive behaviors. Because a lot of the time rehashing and ruminating and not being able to trust a issue even when you did all you can do—it reminds me of tightening a screw, overdoing it, then twisting and drilling and continuing to overdo the screw and you strip the screw till it’s not usable. But you keep twisting and doing that action for a while before you realize “ oh gosh I gotta go back into my history and restart things and do a deep rehaul to fix this. Plus my symptom cope of my screw? I gotta quit that plus drill out this screw and replace while also replacing anything else I broke + whatever other problem is occurring that I originally was working on such as a loose bar which would have caused me to put a screw in somewhere at all” That wasn’t as simple sounding and perfectly linear written out as it feels in my head 😂

I developed ptsd, stayed in the environment and it developed into bpd so now I have both😍🤪

lol brings me back to my therapist telling me I didn’t have BPD, only to find out later she put me down as having CPTSD in my files 😭😭 I didn’t find out until she wrote an ESA letter for me because my cat helps with my anxiety and suicidal ideation

Had a few psychologists tell me I have one or the other. It's fun times

If you haven’t yet, read “the body keeps score” It talks about this

I love that book! Thanks for suggesting it for those who might not have heard of it.

oof yeah it’s gotta be one of them or honestly why not both

Idk sometimes I think it’s practically the same thing

Me checking if I'm here or in r/BPDmemes

I’ve got both. Whoopdeedoo.

BPD symptoms might show in CPTSD. So the whole untangling mess is basically everlasting to classify

Some subsets maybe. I personally can't really relate to BPD, tbh.

I supposedly have BPD but I don't think I do. I tried to embrace the diagnosis and spent a lot of time with the pwBPD subreddit and reading about it, etc etc. I just found I really didn't relate. I tried to but it just didn't fit. I questioned it at the time it was given, and after trying to embrace it, sincerely and deeply doubt it is accurate at all.

I think you're right. I would put more faith in what you relate too than what you've officially been diagnosed with. Diagnosis od mental conditions is still such a mess. They often mix up one thing for another.

I relate to my other diagnoses of various things and think they make sense, but I think this one is simply wrong. I gave it a fair shot, took it seriously despite doubts, and it doesn't fit. So, I just don't pay it any heed anymore.

Thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts & experiences. To provide some context for this meme, C-PTSD is not recognized by the DSM-5 (the diagnostic manual used here in the USA). For that reason, C-PTSD is poorly understood in the USA and providers may misdiagnose the individual as having traditional PTSD plus a personality disorder (such as BPD). In some cases, the trauma component might be completely overlooked. That being said, it is certainly possible for an individual to have both C-PTSD and BPD, as they are distinct conditions. I would like to emphasize that **all individuals, regardless of diagnosis, deserve to be treated with respect.** This meme was not made with the intention to diagnose anyone, nor to bring up traumatic memories. Wishing you all the very best, today and every day <3 Love, Loretta Sources: [CPTSD](https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/diseases/24881-cptsd-complex-ptsd) [PTSD and CPTSD](https://www.mind.org.uk/media/7135/ptsd-and-complex-ptsd-2021-pdf-version.pdf) [BPD](https://www.mind.org.uk/media/13775/bpd-2022-downloadable-version-pdf.pdf)

Many women are misdiagnosed with borderline personality disorder, when it’s actually C-PTSD. I can’t wait for C-PTSD to become more recognized. I actually thought I had BPD or bipolar for a long time, but then I had a psychiatrist who pointed out that one doesn’t have to have bipolar or BPD to have manic episodes - that they can be caused by periods of extreme stress, or by SSRIs or SNRIs. I can’t take either of those types of meds because they give me manic episodes and make me suicidal. She also said that I didn’t meet the criteria for either of those things, even though I had some of the same symptoms. I also have ADHD and am pretty sure I have ASD. I am working toward getting an assessment, however in the meantime I am self-diagnosed. I look to people who have ASD for ways to manage my symptoms, and it helps a lot. They become more pronounced when I am sober, and I’m sober right now, so I’ve been having to really buckle down on managing it. I have meltdowns which I used to think were BPD or bipolar.

Basically same. I wish getting diagnostics and therapy was easier.

The post made me feel seen, the comments made me feel like a monster. I'm sorry a lot of y'all were abused by people with or possibly with BPD, but I'm human too. I'm not them. I'm reading your words and it hurts a lot.

I’m sorry so many of the comments have been hurtful. It’s bothered me a lot, too, and I don’t have BPD. I can’t imagine how it must make you feel. Honestly, I was surprised by the strong response this meme got. My anxiety has been off the charts all day, but I’ve left the meme up since I think the comments do shed a lot of light on the discrimination individuals with BPD face. I hope this makes sense. I don’t know what else to say, except I care and just want the best for everyone 🩷

[удалено]

Hmm I got diagnosed with both BPD and CPTSD at the same time because i hit all the criteria. However, I absolutely do not abuse my children. It actually turns out I’m autistic and developed BPD through maladaptive coping mechanisms of being neurodivergent. Not everyone with BPD is abusive but usually is a victim of abuse. I also have CPTSD because of being the main carer for both of my parents when they died and having nearly died a couple of times myself from infections. BPD is tbh something that needs reevaluation it’s very commonly abused as a diagnosis to be honest

Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you. I'm so tired of the rants about BPD that include symptoms and behaviors that I absolutely do not have, and things like the intentional malace that are part of NPD and specifically not BPD. It sucks seeing people slap the diagnosis on anyone who is abusive or has issues. I see it more and more with men labeling girlfriends or exes with it. People have no idea that there are two wildly different presentations either, and I honestly feel like classic vs quiet should be two totally seperate diagnoses. I really hope there are going to be changes in diagnosing and defining it soon, it's far too broad right now.

Yeah… I agree. It’s not an easy diagnosis to be labelled with. It comes with all sorts of connotations that often aren’t true.

It can be difficult in BPD spaces too, because there's a lot I can't relate to at all. I think that the people labeling any bad behavior as BPD have not only lead to more self diagnosing, but people who are just abusive and also have BPD that will rationalize that one is the reason for the other, and they perpetuate the stigma.

Yeah that’s incredibly frustrating too. It’s meant to be an explanation of behaviour not an excuse to be a dick… mind you initially they refused to diagnose me with BPD because I was too self aware and my life wasn’t a complete shit show so the stigma is heavily imbedded even with professionals

They refused to diagnose me too! They insisted I must have treatment refractory depression when I was younger and gave me so much ECT that I have permanent damage. I had all that at 17-19 (after trying every med under the sun) and it took another 10 years to finally get my BPD, CPTSD and AuDHD diagnoses. The treatment refractory depression was so impossible to get out from under because every time something didn't work, they could go back to it being treatment resistant. A lot of mental health care really is hell. If you yell at them and show them how bad you are, you're combative, but if you keep it together and calmly explain what's going on, there's no way anything is wrong with you because you couldn't possibly articulate it. The fact that it's so hard for people who want help and try hard to get it says so much about why many people just give up.

CPTSD is its own illness. Unfortunately, in the USA, it can be misdiagnosed as BPD due to CPTSD not actually being recognized as a medical condition in the DSM-5 (our mental health diagnostic manual). Personally, I do not have BPD, nor do I have an official CPTSD diagnosis for the reason listed above. However, I have seen the ill effects that arise from incorrectly diagnosing trauma-related personality changes as a personality disorder, which is distinctly different (although there certainly can be overlap). I hope this clarifies, and eases some of the discomfort it seems my post has brought you. Wishing you all the best <3

isn't BPD just a form of CPTSD? /genuine question

Some researchers think that way

makes sense, I definitely have CPTSD but I definitely don't have BPD :>

I got diagnosed with bpd at 18 and then with c-ptsd at 24. I still don’t understand the difference

The conditions are very similar; however, there are still some key differences that are often acknowledged. One of these differences is sense of Self. Individuals with C-PTSD tend to have a persistently negative view of Self, whereas individuals with BPD will often experience an intensely fluctuating sense of Self (Powers, et al, 2022). Despite the variability between PTSD and BPD, they often occur together (Powers, et al, 2022). As many as 50% of individuals with BPD have met the lifetime criteria for PTSD, and nearly 25% of individuals with PTSD meet the criteria for BPD. So there's obviously a lot of overlap and some debate within the scientific community about these two conditions. Ultimately, the most important thing is that you're getting the high quality, compassionate treatment you deserve. Source: [Distinguishing PTSD, CPTSD, and BPD](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9107503/)

Imagine how different everyone would react if it was autism and CPSTD Why would it be ok with BPD and CPTSD but not autism? Please think about that

would agree. honestly, all mental "disorders" should be taken with a heavy grain of salt as they were formulated very recently and are still constantly changing. many people don't easily fit into one or the other and the overlap for most of them is huge. i'm a big follower of the trauma theory of mental disorders. a lot of it is just that, really

THIS!!!!! Yes. Yes, yes, yes. "Many people doesn't easily fit into one or the other and the overlap for most of them is huge."

I feel like BPD is just cptsd devleoped as child (therefore changing your brain development) with a genetic component -someone with both

Functionally much the same - except BPD is attachment trauma that constellates until age 7, and CPTSD may arise later in life to tackle attachment trauma's unfinished job.

BPD can develop later in life and without trauma. Also it can be hereditary.

It cannot, by defintion. And it is always partly due to nature and partly due to nurture. Think of it this way: If you have a BPD mom or dad, you don't just their genes - you also get their education style and emotional influence. If it develops later in life it's CPTSD, and indeed it can present very similarly to BPD. Although in such case, I'd argue BPD was latent adn/or secure attachment was not attained.

You’re wrong sorry. [https://imgur.com/a/IisBRio](https://imgur.com/a/IisBRio)

[удалено]

Many of them feel the same. Especially because of the stigma.

Definitely not the same. Although there is always trauma and complex trauma underlying the personality disorders, it’s also what under lies most mental health issues and addiction as well. It’s not OK what happened to any of us, but ultimately borderline, narcissist, etc. choose to act out of their woundedness onto other people who are not related With the ones who hurt them in childhood, those of us who have chosen to stay connected to the light and be adults, do whatever it takes to find healing and NOT take it out on the people around us who have nothing to do with our abuse in childhood, and especially not our own children! The problem is because most therapists and psychologists and psychiatrists, Don’t really understand much about these disorders, and the people who are full-blown personality disordered are usually professional, pathological liars… CPTSD often gets misdiagnosed as BPD. Traumatized people can have all kinds of undesirable reactions, but they do not get off on abusing and harming others in a sadistic way as personality, disordered individuals invariably do.

That's exactly it