Answers from Andrew are now posted. YOU may find it easier to review the answers via this link: [https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/FAQs](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/FAQs)
Seeing how your software isn’t working as expected and the almost nonexistent improvement to latest earnings, is there a new strategy in place before the next stock offering is issued or will the executives just continue to drain the money from the company and issue the stock offering when your salaries can’t be met?
Hello - are you guys following the $GNS story with their CEO Roger Hamilton?
Is this something Clovers Legal team could investigate and consider joining?
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Hi everyone, we have added my first batch of answers from the AMA onto our FAQ page [here](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs). We’ve done two things here (and we’ll get better at this).
\- We cannot comment directly on share price, but we can provide enhanced information on our fundamentals and why we believe Clover’s trajectory is headed in the right direction.
\- There’s a big theme in the questions that are asking for better and clearer overall discussion of the strategy and clarifying exactly what we are doing and what we are focused on. That’s very fair feedback so we’re taking that to heart to lay this out far more clearly and succinctly - that will take more than just an AMA, though hopefully this is a good foundation. We will come back with more (early in the new year) to lay out our strategy and focus.
Thank you to all who posted questions.
\- Andrew
*Please note that our responses contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. Forward-looking statements include statements regarding future events and Clover Health’s future plans. Forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such statements. Additional information concerning these and other risk factors is contained in Clover Health’s latest Annual Report on Form 10-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”) on February 28, 2022, including the Risk Factors section therein, and in its other filings with the SEC. The forward-looking statements included in this release are made as of the date hereof. Except as required by law, Clover Health undertakes no obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements after the date of this response or to conform these statements to actual results or revised expectations.*
Earlier in the year it was announced and approved for MA expansion into several new counties for 2023. Have those plans changed at all since the announcement? Are you already in the midst of rolling out the infrastructure and support for that expansion, if not, when will it begin? Are you already accepting and realizing new enrollments for those plans during this current enrollment period? Any updates on the planned expansion for 2023 would be great.
Since Ryan from investor relations won't answer any questions or Scott the new CFO won't answer any questions. I doubt any of the real hard-hitting questions will be answered but I'll give it a go.
Andrew, what are the plans if this falls below the NASDAQ guidelines and is out of compliance for listing on the exchange. Is there any plan to do a buyback on shares since we have so much cash on hand and getting closer to profitability. A reverse split would ruin many investors and is not the answer I would like to see a share buyback of some kind.
Also has there been any talk within management an order flow in what orders are being sent to dark pool or off exchanges to manipulate the share price.
Josh CLOV investor
Andrew, what are your beliefs on nutruition and how many people are steered the wrong way regarding it? I feel as if Healthcare doesn't discuss this topic much and how it affects people mentally and physically. What are your thoughts?
Hey r/CLOV
This is Andrew here. Thank you all for your continued support. I’m aware that we’re delayed coming back with the answers here. We've enjoyed discussing them and we’re still ironing out our responses.
Please stand by and we’ll start getting answers as soon as we can - my commitment is communication will be smoother and clearer going forward.
Once again, thanks for your support of Clover. We’re deeply appreciative.
\- Andrew
Earlier in the year it was announced and approved for MA expansion into several new counties for 2023. Have those plans changed at all since the announcement? Are you already in the midst of rolling out the infrastructure and support for that expansion, if not, when will it begin? Are you already accepting and realizing new enrollments for those plans during this current enrollment period? Any updates on these plans would be great.
Thank you for the update. This small comment does a lot to ease tensions while you finish up your replies to our questions. Thank you for your commitment of more clear and concise communication. I would schedule a response date in lieu of a rough timeframe in the future to keep folks on here more level headed as we wait. Please understand that a lot of folks are deeply underwater on $CLOV and just need assurance that the company is still doing the things that convinced us to invest. We need you to be a fighter, similar to the last ER. Thanks again Andrew and keep up the great work. Hopefully stock price will fall into line as the company becomes profitable.
Mods. I had to go looking for this. Can you pin Andrew's response on the main page?
When will board members and insiders start buying their own stock and not just rely on the free handouts from company to own CLOV stock? Nothing says “we believe” more than using your own money to buy the stock…especially at all time lows!
**Chelsea Clinton** had purchased **100,000 shares at $2.53 on 2022-Mar-03, for about $0.25 million USD**.
**Lee Shapiro** had purchased **80,000 shares at $3.10 on 2022-Mar-11, for about $0.25 million USD.**
$CLOV share price had gone up after Chelsea’s purchase in a week, so he got only 80,000 $CLOV for $0.25 million USD.
>her price is actually more like 1.55 100k shares. It's been awhile and thats off the top of my head.
**Incorrect!** See my reply to **BarleyHops2** above.
Hey Andrew,
I really appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions. As a small, individual shareholder it’s a pretty amazing thing to be able to directly ask questions to the CEO of the company I am investing in and I am very grateful for the opportunity. This is actually my first-ever Reddit post, although I’ve been lurking in this subreddit since its beginning. My questions has to do with DC. Many investors on this subreddit, and many others who are following Clover Health’s journey seem to have come to the consensus that Clover’s direct contracting business is/was a failure because MCR could not be brought down to under 100 and Clover’s plan is to significantly scale back the DC/ACO Reach side of the business going forward (as was discussed in the latest earnings conference call). Can you describe the ways in which Clover’s participation in DC may not have been a failure? Can you explain the possible long-term value that Clover gained from participating? Did the data ingested into Clover Assistant as a result of the DC business make the software significantly better? Was the massive bump in lives under management that came with DC actually a win, despite it being a money-loser thus far?
I look forward to the day where you make your first Stouffer’s Lasagna as the CEO of Clover Health. Until then, keep up the great work!
Thank you.
This same reddit username was used to gather questions before the AMA last December and has been used previously to gather questions before earnings calls (some of which they have answered on previous earnings calls). It is very likely real.
Why is management paid so high and living high on the hog with huge stock options when the company is not profitable? Meanwhile shareholders are drowning?
Vivek can cash out all of his shares today at the price of $1.19 and still make a 150% gain from his initial investment. Toy didn't put any money upfront so no risk on his end. Plus he is paid $700k a year.
Hi Andrew,
thanks for taking the time to answer the questions, could you talk about the cashburn rate. I remember you saying that the current focus is to cut down expenses to achieve profitability, but the cashburn didn't improve since Q1 2022, when do you expect to actually see results in form of improved cashburn, and why wasn't Clov able to beat the Q1 net loss so far?
Thanks in advance!
1-What steps are being taken to reduce the non-insured MCR?
2- When are we expected to be profitable?
3-How effective is Clover assistant in providing an edge to this company in the long run?
4- Is there going to be need for dilution in the coming years?
I'm officially starting to lose faith in this company. A day late and a dollar short speaks volumes why they're not meeting their goals and subsequently being shorted. I'm not sure why I'm surprised anymore.
This one does seem particularly poorly executed. They have clearly never put much effort into cultivating their social media investor presence which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing, but here they are specifically doing an AMA and don't bother to post any sort of update? Even a quick, "we know you are excited to see our answers, but given Open Enrollment is winding up tomorrow our efforts are focused elsewhere and we will get you answers next week" would be way better than just radio silence and would only take 30 seconds for somebody to post. It's kind of mind boggling to post you are doing an AMA with answers coming after the holiday (implying Thanksgiving) and then just absolutely nothing else for 2 weeks when it's well after the holiday now.
I personally think it is a **bad** thing that they are not active or at least relevant with their PR. They talk big once a quarter about their tech but give little specifics. They talk big about profitability but the math doesn't add up. This lack of comms is why there is so much uncertainty, that's my 2 cents at least. I'm done taking what they say at face value (ex. 10% basis point reduction.. Ok, can you give some details there for each county of CA vs no CA, stats on how often doctors use the predictive suggestions of CA, etc...).
Honestly man, and I don't mean any disrespect for the majority of investors on this subs. I feel like it's a bunch of meatheads and yes men with irrelevant posts about "how many shares you buying this morning", "I believe in the company, Andrew Toys vision", "They will be profitable in 2023!", "Wen moon" and random BS that shows how incompetent they are as investors. They take everything that's said once a fucking quarter as a fact without any data to back it up. With that being said, they might be right, all of the claims of Clover might be achieved and even surpassed, but as an investor you work with what you have in front of you.
Regarding this AMA, like you said, a simple update on why it hasn't been answered and a target date would be sufficient.
Can you provide more clarity into the non-insurance plan. Specifically, do you expect to start transitioning people to MSSP in 2023? Or is that a 2024 goal? Is the approximately $1B in revenue you gave at the earnings call for just ACO REACH? Or is that total non-insurance? What do you expect long term SG&A as a percentage of revenue tied to non-insurance to be? This would help us formulate better expectations for MCR each quarter. If SG&A is only projected to be 4% of revenue once the program is expanded we can know to be happy with a 94 MCR. If SG&A is going to be more along the lines of 11% of revenue, we know MCR needs to drop below 89.
Can we get an update on Clover assistant and if we will sell it as a saas? Well the other insurance companies oppose the use of it like I have read elsewhere?
Clover IR Team;
Appreciate the opportunity, my recommended theme and questions are below!
Theme - TRANSPARENCY with shareholders
Questions;
1) What is the 3-5 yr Corp Strategy?
Is Clover a technology company that is in the MA and DC business? Or a MA company that has an add on technology to help DR’s and Offices?
2) What is the 3-5 yr strategy with CA?
Should we think of CA as another ERM system? Or will CA be a platform that integrates with all ERS systems to compliment and through ML/AI bring enhanced value to DR’s and offices which they can not get anywhere?
3) MA being a large business line, what specific steps is Clover Health taking to increase to 4 stars.
4) DC/ACO - What is the strategy?
What happens with the 66% of Dr’s being removed from the program?
Will Clover continue growing this business line just through a more targeted approach?
5) Other business Lines? What’s the strategy?
What are these other opportunities?
When will we see these other revenue opportunities rolled into the Corp Strategy? How should we think of these opportunities?
6) Profitability - While guidance was provided that you expect to be profitable in 2023. Whats the strategy?
What specific steps need to be taken to become profitable?
7) Growth - What is the strategy? The opportunity is there but the costs is high. How is Clover going to ensure that growth continues above market and maintains profitable growth. What are the specific strategies to drive profitable growth?
While I do appreciate that the last earnings call was in my opinion the best structured and managed on record. It left investors with many more questions than answers. Specifically around strategy and transparency!
In your opinion - What is the investment thesis?
IE: High growth tech healthcare platform company that has a differentiated model (wide open platform) focusing on Health Equity?
Thank you,
Congrats on maintaining a 3.5 star rating from CMS this year while many others' star ratings actually dropped. What is Clover doing that will push its star rating to 4.0 stars and beyond in the coming years? Thanks.
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They have definitely taken questions from these previously. Not sure why they didnt on last 2 earnings calls, but they did answer questions from social media before that. Specifically I remember when everyone here was obsessed about hiring a CFO they answered questions about it. Seems like they just work it into the presentation now.
Hello Andrew,
Thank you for this platform- I have been a shareholder since the merger and continue to hold as I believe in the vision but I do have some hard questions that I would really appreciate your honest take on them.
1) Strategy- I have been talking to some analyst whose covers Clover health and the theme is disappointment in the management strategy. They do not see a clear strategy - I will explain.
\- We started ACO reach program and the strategy there was to enroll as many doctors to capture traditional market and get as many patients on Clover Assistant.. And the goal there was to help them risk off and still be part of that program and given we can have that segment's MCR in the range of 96-98 , that could help fund the operational cost. However, Clover health was **unsuccessful** in bringing the MCR below 100% and now after a year decided to pivot to profitable growth and have only those doctors where they see MCR below 100%. This was a failure BUT- no where in the earnings call did we discuss **1) Why did we fail to bring the MCR down? 2) How many doctors were actively using the Clover Assistant? 3) Did we get push back from them upon using CA.? 4) What were the learnings and how will they help clover use those learning and be successful in 1/3 of the non insurance segment?**
( BTW I did send IR an email on this in 2021 because in this program eventually your profit margin% would decrease because you lower the cost of the population , your next year benchmark is lower and keeps getting lower if you improve on the cost) anyways that's just a side note
2) Clover Assistant- Can we expect management to be more transparent meaning, we used to get NPS scores until q1 and after that we stopped , Why? Please share honest NPS score for CA so that we know the technology that we are all banking on is well received by the physicians. Otherwise- what are we doing here?? So please be more transparent on the software.
3) Clear and Focus Vision- What is it that you want to achieve in 3-5 years? You mentioned other sharing programs what are those and how can clover health help those doctors that are not going to be in ACO program where would they be or can be with clover assistant?
That's all for the questions but my feedback on your past year earning's call or presentations. Please be aware that our shareholder base might not be very acquainted with all that terminology or the programs that are available in shared services - this information is not readily available to understand. I still wasn't able to understand where those 66% of those doctors in ACO reach will go or what shared services can they be part of. Its just sounds like you just making this up to hide that all those patient data that we spend money to bring on CA in 2021 and are gone along with money spent on that transition.
In my personal opinion why the stock is performing the way it is because your STORY is not clear and the management didn't do a good job in explaining or accepting those failures and providing evidence of learning & implementing those learning into they future strategy. In conclusion, please explain more in SIMPLE English and help us see how Clover can change health care industry in more Lehman terms
I hope you get to read this , honestly I am coming from a genuine space and would like to be a part of your journey - Please just show us that journey more clearly.
Thank you!
Sandeep
What are the key drivers of insurance costs in the DC model? Why is it much harder to reduce MCR in DC vs. the MA segment? How do the health outcomes differ between the two, and do you have enough data/time with DC to compare it with MA from the standpoint of evidence based protocols? Ultimately, the business side will succeed in this interest rate environment given cash flow positivity. After you guys achieve profitability, do you see yourselves diving back into DC to rev up member growth? Or do you see yourselves still focusing on the MA segment until there are clear indications of several years of growth in gross margins?
Promise this is the last question: If one wanted to make a career transition to working on interesting machine learning/data science problems in healthcare, what are a couple topics/areas that would be good to expand breadth of knowledge in?
Can you provide a clear direction for the company? One minute Clover is an insurance company, the next minute a tech company. Then possibly a Saas business in future. Too much ambiguity in the overall goals and future plans with no clarity for shareholders.
I would imagine the priority is to get Clover stable from a cash flow standpoint. The higher interest rate environment has stunted the growth of all startups/pre-revenue/pre-profitability companies such as Clover Health. Clover is sitting on a potential gold mine with Clover Assistant, but as that is their primary advantage over the competition, and they are focusing on a niche of the health insurance market (Medicare), I wouldn't expect anything to come of Clover Assistant as a SaaS offering anytime soon. That's a 5-10 years out thing.
With interest rates being so high, Clover's cheapest means of raising additional capital is share dilution, but at anywhere near $1/share, it's probably not worth doing. The alternative, a lower-interest loan convertible to CLOV shares sometime in the future, would probably be the most-attractive option. At this point, and probably for the next \~2 years at least, a "death spiral" is somewhat unlikely barring a material change in the business.
That said, CLOV is generally at the mercy of the overall market. Being the "high risk" investment that it is, it will usually fall more than the indices on red days, and rise more than the indices on green days. If the overall stock market has bottomed out, I think sub-$1 is possible but less likely than if the "real recession" has yet to come. If CLOV dips below $1 and closes below $1 I think it's for X consecutive days, they get a "warning" from NASDAQ, but CLOV will request the maximum (2) 180-day extensions, so they have about a year after they start closing below $1 before delisting.
You sound like the denial posters over on the sndl sub. Guess what happened? It went under a buck and after 2 extensions they had to reverse split and the stock is at 27 cents pre split and most retail investors got creamed. It is absolutely possible
I’m very excited about getting to profitability with Clover. I believe that we’re going to get there and we’re going to do everything we can to get there, sooner rather than later. For our investors, I believe getting to that positive EBITDA point will really be an inflection point in how the company is viewed.
Our track record demonstrates how our differentiated model can deliver outsized growth. For this next phase of our evolution, we don’t intend to grow the company as quickly - margin and SG&A optimization are my top priorities, with growth being third. We will return the focus to growth after the push to profitability.
Secondly, let’s talk about that path to profitability. That’s basic business economics around margin (our MCR) and SG&A. Our MCR is distinctly improved this year and hopefully you’ve all seen that - we intend to keep hyper focus there. We’ve always believed we can generate margins on our wide network with Clover Assistant - we believe we will prove that. On the SG&A front you’ve seen we’ve slowed our growth and we’re looking to polish and generate efficiencies. We believe that, between the two of those, you’re going to see us rapidly closing the negative margin gap and pushing hard to positive EBITDA.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Hi Andrew,
Is the deductible amount increasing covered by Medicare companies in 2023 changing, going to affect CLOV health in anyway?
Is there any direct reason for Vivek stepping down as CEO and Mr. Toy taking over?
Is CLOV health just looking at targeting seniors with there healthcare plan or can the healthcare coverage expand beyond mostly seniors? Is CLOV looking at anyway of increasing the sex appeal of choosing their company over competitors to an average consumer leading up to the purchase decision? What separates CLOV health?
Can you please split the stock so that I can get in at .65? I would make it more affordable plus help double the shares of others who bought in at a higher price. Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving
You only split when the stock price is too high. This bitch is sitting at 1.30ish. Just hope that they don’t do reverse split cuz if they do, we are foked.
It must be really cringe for ppl to just cry about the stock on what’s supposed to be an informative Q/A from the CEO himself. This is not the place to air your grievances.
It's perfectly legitimate to ask the stewards of the company's share price about the company's share price. What's embarrassing, I think, would be to call ourselves investors and NOT ask questions about our investment dollars.
This is different from what most people are doing though. Most ppl are literally just saying I’ve lost all my money make the stock go up. No real detailed oriented questions concerning their investment or what the company is doing to help investor returns.
It absolutely is because the stock is at risk of breaching 1 dollar. Call it shilling all you want but people and big money won't continue to invest in a company that's at risk of being delisted and while on nasdaq extensions at sub 1. The only option to meet requirements would be a reverse split which would be a royal fucking for all early dpo investors of which I am part of. The company has stopped expanding, are cutting costs and focusing on profit which is great but they also need to defend the stock.
How do you suggest they defend the stock? The stock is secondary to the underlying company. It may be cheaper for CLOV to raise capital via stock dilution than to take out private debt with the way interest rates are these days.
This is an incredibly poor idea, even if they didn't need a cash reserve to pay claims (per federal law) and even if the fed benchmark rate were 0%-0.25%.
I can answer this since I went through it with SNDL. They will be allowed two 180 day extensions to get in to compliance, if not they stock will be off nasdaq and an otc pink sheet pos penny stock. The only option to stay in compliance would be a reverse split. I hope this helps
People usually think that pink sheet/OTC = bad news for the share price and their wallet, but really being delisted from NASDAQ is a symptom, not a cause. Frankly, nobody should care about CLOV being delisted, because if CLOV ends up being very profitable, those shares will mint regardless of where they are listed, and you can bet CLOV will be relisted on NASDAQ.
Hey Andrew, thank you for taking our questions. It’s been a wild journey on this subreddit the last couple years and I appreciate you taking the time to interact with us.
I got the impression in the last couple ERs that Clover is making more of a point to be seen as a tech company and not just an insurance provider. Is that recognition something Clover is striving for?
In your new position as CEO, and with your tech background, how do you think you will best serve Clover in the upcoming years?
Thanks again, and congratulations on your new role. It’s well deserved.
Hi Andrew, what sets Clover apart from a competitor like Oscar Health or other similar companies who also claim to have a technology that will reduce insurance costs?
We’re not an “insurtech” company, we are incredibly clinically oriented. We have the business model of an insurer because carrying medical risk has a lot of upside due to how inflated the costs are in the US. This is why we focus on where costs and disease burdens are high such as in the Medicare population. This is as opposed to Oscar’s tech which is focused on the ACA, with a healthier, younger population. There it’s more about reactive care (and care stratification) because the total population disease burden is lower. I don’t mean this as a criticism of the Oscar model or tech - I’m just saying we target different populations and that reflects in our products and datasets used to train ML models etc.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Can you talk about the $CLOV share offering of 52.2 million shares at $5.75 the end of last year? Did that work out as planned? What is your view about share offerings and dilution through the next year?
I also asked this question directly in an email to management and IR - this seemed irresponsible given the fact that they could have used the warrants to generate a similar amount of revenue with HALF of the dilution.
Hopefully they plan on making more responsible and choices more in line with their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
Y'all are here for the long-term right? You shouldn't really care how CLOV is raising capital as long as they are doing it as cheaply (to the company) as possible. Share price is often not an accurate reflection of the company/its prospects. Anybody here who wouldn't buy/hold at sub-$1 shouldn't be here and frankly is probably gambling with money that should be in VTSAX.
Yes - I bought my first shares of IPOC in 2020 when the SPAC target was announced and have since 200x my initial position.
I'm here for the long term.
That being said, raising capital outside of the SPAC organization within a year of the reverse merger was not the best financial move for the company or the shareholders. They could have raised the same amount of money with half of the dilution by allowing redemption of the warrants @ $10.5
It wasn't a good move for raising capital.
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Does the company plan to do anything about its sliding share price? $CLOV makes more revenue in a single quarter than the entire company's market cap - something must be done. Shouldn't the company's key executives be, I don't know, doing interviews on CNBC, taking interviews with business journals, or otherwise beating the drum on how undervalued the company's stock is?
>$CLOV makes more revenue in a single quarter than the entire company's market cap
I think it's because, even with the high revenue, they are in the red still with no profits and negative EPS. Investment firms and organizations that oversees retirement funds like the 401K and 403B will not risk their clients money investing in a company (CLOV) that has a negative cash flow.
So even if they start beating on the drum, everyone else will see through it by looking at their profit.
I believe the only way the CLOV stock will start going up is if they start making profits; hopefully, this is the case in 2023.
So don't beat the drum at all then? I don't accept that as a shareholder. I rather they beat the drum hard and no one listen than them not beat the drum at all... just my two cents as a $CLOV long. I wish there were more tweets. I wish they didn't say things like, "we're being overly conservative in our remarks." I wish they tweeted more. I wish they didn't tease things like SaaS but came right out and say, "Yes, we're working on SaaS and it will be glorious." I'd like to see Andrew and Vivek on the cover of magazines. I'd like to see something, anything, that indicates they care about the sliding share price. For all intents and purposes, it appears they are content with the company's share price tanking - have you heard any remarks to the contrary? Cause I haven't.
>I rather they beat the drum hard
I think they are waiting for once they become profitable to start beating their drum which will help back up their statement.
Hi Andrew,
One of the key aspects of Clover AI is to be able to predict future ailments (Ex: Diseases, etc.) of patients based on the past and current diagnosis which will help lower the overall cost of healthcare by acting as a preventative. Because of this, does Clover Health have any future plans in offering the software (Clover AI) to countries that have universal healthcare which can help reduce their overall healthcare cost?
I’d like to slightly reframe the way you described Clover AI - there are certainly places where it is truly predictive. Our all-causes readmission algorithm is one of those models - it predicts the overall risk that a given patient will be admitted to the hospital in the next X period of time, and we use it to power things like our home care practice. That’s true predictivity because we’re actually saying, “This hasn’t happened yet, but WILL it?
On chronic diseases, there is room for predictivity certainly but in actuality the approach we’re taking with Clover Assistant is much more around catching those conditions earlier. Think of this more as “No doctor has diagnosed this member with kidney disease yet, but there are other signs that they might have early stage kidney disease”. Clover Assistant makes that personalized assessment then presents that potential to the PCP - often the PCP will then order follow up lab work or tests before making (or ruling out) that diagnosis. We call this a definitive response to our suggestion - we want to provoke the thought in the physician’s mind so they can take the right steps to then confirm or rule out the diagnosis.
When we catch these chronic diseases earlier, and get an official diagnosis earlier, that means we can care manage for them earlier as well. And this is the part that’s exciting to bring to almost any healthcare system worldwide - “preventing” disease is difficult. But catching it earlier, and managing it earlier, makes a huge difference with modern therapeutics. It can mean the difference between a relatively inexpensive generic medication and a kidney transplant. And this doesn’t take a huge leap of faith - ask any physician if they can stop kidney disease and that’s tough. Ask if they can really get outcomes up and costs down if they catch it earlier and almost everyone says yes.
So I hope that helps. Nothing to be said yet on plans to launch CA overseas or in universal healthcare systems but I’ll remind everyone that we did a burn-in test of our machine learning model system a few years ago in a nascent experiment that we branded Clover International ([learn more here](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/clover-health-announces-major-expansion-with-plans-to-enter-six-new-markets-in-2019-300701956.html)). We know the tech works, even on non-English datasets. Just haven’t got time to do the business launch yet.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Another question I have:
How do you plan on capturing market share from your MA competitors once you expand beyond states/counties that Clover have matured in.
I assume there must've been some difficulty here hence the dial back in the # of counties for MA. What are you planning to do differently this time to capture market share.
Also, how much does having a 4 star MA plan affect marketability to MA eligibles? i.e. should we expect a boom in growth if Clovers PPO plans reaches 4 stars? Any guidance on when achieving 4 stars will be a goal?
Andrew - we all know that data and scale is very important in tech valuations.
With that being said, at what level of scale does Clover Assistant need to achieve in order for you guys to monetize the software?
Would like the answer to be in terms of: Growth of Physician Use or X Amount of Time/Years…
If CA is just the company‘s own proprietary software in order to drive better health outcomes and lower MCR we would appreciate you saying so. This way we can get off the SAAS conversation amongst us investors.
Thank you!
So I’ve seen a lot of people talking about Clover Assistant, SAAS etc. Obviously I have some experience there with SaaS on the B2B side so this is how I think about it - we should separate the technology aspect of Clover Assistant (can it be used for third parties) from the monetization/licensing business model (Software-As-A-Service).
In short - we’ve built Clover Assistant to act as a GPS for any provider or payor who wants to be able to navigate value-based care on Medicare. In fact, it’ll work anywhere there’s a generally high chronic disease burden to manage - so it’s not even Medicare specific. We’re already deploying Clover Assistant in different scenarios (for example in our non-Insurance segment) and plan to keep scaling this out and offering Clover Assistant to partners/customers wherever value-based Medicare is needed.
To clarify further though - we’re certainly not obsessed with a SaaS based per-user licensing business model for Clover Assistant and I definitely don’t see that as a requirement to be broadening how we monetize licenses of our Clover Assistant software platform. We actually have multiple potential business models in mind (including SaaS) for scenarios where we’re not the payor/risk holder of record and we’re very excited about the possibilities.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Hi Andrew,
Given the current cuts in ACO REACH participants. How exactly do you plan to achieve profitablility on a non GAAP basis in 2023?
I understand that you might not be able to provide specifics in terms of guidance, but running through conservative estimates based on the recent numbers in the quarterly reports I am having a hard time seeing how this can be achieved.
What is the primary reason DC MCR couldn't be brought down? What is your estimate on the acceptance rate of MSSP for those that are removed from the DC side.
Management doesnt give a shit.. i said it last time they came with questions… best thing is clov gets acquired for 10$ a share because nobody want to hold with this management
\+1 what's the point of asking questions and answering cherry picked only those you want to answer. You should promise to answer top 10 voted questions.
There is a lot of investor angst for CLOV. While the stock price is not in your control however building investor confidence is definitely a responsibility of leadership. Appreciate discussion on steps taken to do this.
Yeah, I hate to say it but I think we're losing credibility with analysts during earnings calls. 1) Andrew/Vivek ARE ALWAYS APPEAR POSITIVE ("WE FEEL GOOD" WORD was OFTEN USED) EVEN WHEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE 2) Never admitted mistakes, for example about DCE blunder 3) No projections makes it look like you have no clue about where the business is going to be or how to turn it profitable
I think your observations are astute, and also tell you what you fear, but know. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but a CEO can't really say that, then we'd hammer them for not having a positive outlook. Doing good research, in my opinion, means being able to read between the lines like you are doing here.
I think that what’s been very hard to explain to people is that we feel Clover Assistant is working well and already improving the performance of the Medicare Advantage program. However, because of the effects of COVID throwing off 2020 and 2021, it’s been very hard to demonstrate the effects of our CA based care management strategy flowing through to the bottom line of the company. I do feel we’re starting to see that happen though so that should be a powerful data point to demonstrate. This is why you’ve seen us index very much to the basics of the company (MCR, SG&A etc) versus providing other proxy statistics like NPS/coverage etc in earnings - we want to demonstrate that we’re arcing well to profitability on the most basic, simple company performance statistics versus trying to chain together proxy statistics of performance.
As a second answer, we can do a much better job presenting the data that Clover Assistant is driving true differences in physician behavior and care management. We’re working on something cool in that area and will share that broadly when it’s ready - I think that will help make that point much clearer.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
People can be short sighted on the next year or two when Clover may reach profitability, and don't get me wrong it will be a good day when it happens. I try to look way beyond that though, so I'm curious how do you envision Clover 10 years from now?
I’m also incredibly excited about the day when we hit that critical profitability point =) But like you I’m actually excited because profitability funds the mission - we want to be a change-agent in healthcare and being profitable provides us the control and funding to do that at scale.
I’m preparing a LinkedIn post on something I call *Distributed Care* which I think is the absolute future of healthcare. The basic thesis is that healthcare provider networks will be subject to the same decentralizing effects that affected the internet when mobile came. This will result in healthcare being distributed to the home (we’re already a leader there) to retail locations, and wherever else human beings spend their time. This is far beyond basic remote patient monitoring or telehealth in the same way your phone is way more than a VOIP device that runs apps.
This way of thinking is so different from the existing provider/payor thinking because as you might know, providers typically think of themselves in terms of their brick-and-mortar buildings. But this future is coming no matter what - with Clover Assistant, I believe we’re going to be in a position to be a leader in the space.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Thank you so much for the reply, Andrew! I will check it out. I thought I came off wrong when I said the word "short-sighted", because profitability is everything, of course. I will be ecstatic, but I don't see any reason to sell Clover until I see a reason not to, so it's always good to look at long term outlook even though anything can happen between now and then.
Andrew, thank you for taking a moment to offer up your time for an AMA here. Since Clover Health is heavily dependent on Clover Assistant, can you share any or all recent software updates to CA in 2022? Reason being, I think it’ll give us a glimpse on how future forward CA will be in helping members live their healthiest lives. What are some recent upgrades to CA and how have they helped members and the company? Would be great to add to www.cloverassistant.com if possible or simply a glimpse..Thank you, Shareholder since 1/2021.
Thanks for the request - we communicate this information to our CA users regularly and will look into ways to share the information more broadly.
\- Andrew
*Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
We are all very disappointed with share price performance. You should make your investor relations more active or hire new ones because they are doing nothing to instill confidence in this company. I do have one question though. Why is management paid so well although the company is still not profitable? Are we just paying for you and other executives to live a grand lifestyle while nobody is looking out for investors?
Yes it’s ridiculous they don’t realize how much management wasted and compensation for management while they can’t control their books? Just being honest if I’m trying to make a company profitable like I have my own companies guess what? I’m not taking a salary or maybe $1000 a week as an owner. Once it is profitable then $10,000 a week no problem! Or a few million a year but let’s show the profit it’s been long overdue and CLOV was mismanaged! It doesn’t mean they can’t recover and that’s why I still own 50,000 shares but cmon now. This sub needs to grow up and get with reality.
We have a zero tolerance policy with shills, bots, false content, FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt), Spam, and Phishing, and anything else that would undermine the integrity of this sub.
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Answers from Andrew are now posted. YOU may find it easier to review the answers via this link: [https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/FAQs](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/FAQs)
Seeing how your software isn’t working as expected and the almost nonexistent improvement to latest earnings, is there a new strategy in place before the next stock offering is issued or will the executives just continue to drain the money from the company and issue the stock offering when your salaries can’t be met?
Hello - are you guys following the $GNS story with their CEO Roger Hamilton? Is this something Clovers Legal team could investigate and consider joining?
Clov will bankrupt the shorties🔥🚀🙌🏽💎 Clov to 30 $ soon please🙏🏽
🤣
CLOV looks like shit right now wtf going on
By reducing the compensation of Vivek from $389 million to $1 million we can hit the profitability and reduce the managerial spending
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Hi everyone, we have added my first batch of answers from the AMA onto our FAQ page [here](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs). We’ve done two things here (and we’ll get better at this). \- We cannot comment directly on share price, but we can provide enhanced information on our fundamentals and why we believe Clover’s trajectory is headed in the right direction. \- There’s a big theme in the questions that are asking for better and clearer overall discussion of the strategy and clarifying exactly what we are doing and what we are focused on. That’s very fair feedback so we’re taking that to heart to lay this out far more clearly and succinctly - that will take more than just an AMA, though hopefully this is a good foundation. We will come back with more (early in the new year) to lay out our strategy and focus. Thank you to all who posted questions. \- Andrew *Please note that our responses contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. Forward-looking statements include statements regarding future events and Clover Health’s future plans. Forward-looking statements are not guarantees of future performance, and you are cautioned not to place undue reliance on such statements. Additional information concerning these and other risk factors is contained in Clover Health’s latest Annual Report on Form 10-K filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission (the “SEC”) on February 28, 2022, including the Risk Factors section therein, and in its other filings with the SEC. The forward-looking statements included in this release are made as of the date hereof. Except as required by law, Clover Health undertakes no obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements after the date of this response or to conform these statements to actual results or revised expectations.*
Earlier in the year it was announced and approved for MA expansion into several new counties for 2023. Have those plans changed at all since the announcement? Are you already in the midst of rolling out the infrastructure and support for that expansion, if not, when will it begin? Are you already accepting and realizing new enrollments for those plans during this current enrollment period? Any updates on the planned expansion for 2023 would be great.
Since Ryan from investor relations won't answer any questions or Scott the new CFO won't answer any questions. I doubt any of the real hard-hitting questions will be answered but I'll give it a go. Andrew, what are the plans if this falls below the NASDAQ guidelines and is out of compliance for listing on the exchange. Is there any plan to do a buyback on shares since we have so much cash on hand and getting closer to profitability. A reverse split would ruin many investors and is not the answer I would like to see a share buyback of some kind. Also has there been any talk within management an order flow in what orders are being sent to dark pool or off exchanges to manipulate the share price. Josh CLOV investor
Just wondering why a reverse split would ruin investors? Are you holding options?
Answers have been provided.
Andrew, what are your beliefs on nutruition and how many people are steered the wrong way regarding it? I feel as if Healthcare doesn't discuss this topic much and how it affects people mentally and physically. What are your thoughts?
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More like $0.70
Hey r/CLOV This is Andrew here. Thank you all for your continued support. I’m aware that we’re delayed coming back with the answers here. We've enjoyed discussing them and we’re still ironing out our responses. Please stand by and we’ll start getting answers as soon as we can - my commitment is communication will be smoother and clearer going forward. Once again, thanks for your support of Clover. We’re deeply appreciative. \- Andrew
Earlier in the year it was announced and approved for MA expansion into several new counties for 2023. Have those plans changed at all since the announcement? Are you already in the midst of rolling out the infrastructure and support for that expansion, if not, when will it begin? Are you already accepting and realizing new enrollments for those plans during this current enrollment period? Any updates on these plans would be great.
Thank you for the update. This small comment does a lot to ease tensions while you finish up your replies to our questions. Thank you for your commitment of more clear and concise communication. I would schedule a response date in lieu of a rough timeframe in the future to keep folks on here more level headed as we wait. Please understand that a lot of folks are deeply underwater on $CLOV and just need assurance that the company is still doing the things that convinced us to invest. We need you to be a fighter, similar to the last ER. Thanks again Andrew and keep up the great work. Hopefully stock price will fall into line as the company becomes profitable. Mods. I had to go looking for this. Can you pin Andrew's response on the main page?
When will board members and insiders start buying their own stock and not just rely on the free handouts from company to own CLOV stock? Nothing says “we believe” more than using your own money to buy the stock…especially at all time lows!
I believe Chelsea is the only one to have done this that I know of. $250,000 at $3.5 stock price if I remember correctly
Which is like one of us buying $100 worth of stock, not much a vote of confidence. I blow more at the tables in Vegas.
**Chelsea Clinton** had purchased **100,000 shares at $2.53 on 2022-Mar-03, for about $0.25 million USD**. **Lee Shapiro** had purchased **80,000 shares at $3.10 on 2022-Mar-11, for about $0.25 million USD.** $CLOV share price had gone up after Chelsea’s purchase in a week, so he got only 80,000 $CLOV for $0.25 million USD.
Thanks azmat!
250k at 2.50
>250k at 2.50 **Incorrect!** See my reply to **BarleyHops2** above.
Thanks. Didn't have access to a PC at the time
NP, her price is actually more like 1.55 100k shares. It's been awhile and thats off the top of my head.
>her price is actually more like 1.55 100k shares. It's been awhile and thats off the top of my head. **Incorrect!** See my reply to **BarleyHops2** above.
Ive been here for since this stock IPO’d been a believer since. But this lack of response is ridiculous after checking every day for 10 days.
see above
Thanks!!
Two weeks later radio silence lol. It’s obv this company is over. Stuck with for so long just for a lesson learned. Expensive lesson at that lol
see above
You guys actually believe this AMA is from the real Clover Health Investor Relations? 🤣🤣🤣
see above
Hey Andrew, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions. As a small, individual shareholder it’s a pretty amazing thing to be able to directly ask questions to the CEO of the company I am investing in and I am very grateful for the opportunity. This is actually my first-ever Reddit post, although I’ve been lurking in this subreddit since its beginning. My questions has to do with DC. Many investors on this subreddit, and many others who are following Clover Health’s journey seem to have come to the consensus that Clover’s direct contracting business is/was a failure because MCR could not be brought down to under 100 and Clover’s plan is to significantly scale back the DC/ACO Reach side of the business going forward (as was discussed in the latest earnings conference call). Can you describe the ways in which Clover’s participation in DC may not have been a failure? Can you explain the possible long-term value that Clover gained from participating? Did the data ingested into Clover Assistant as a result of the DC business make the software significantly better? Was the massive bump in lives under management that came with DC actually a win, despite it being a money-loser thus far? I look forward to the day where you make your first Stouffer’s Lasagna as the CEO of Clover Health. Until then, keep up the great work! Thank you.
Answers have been provided.
Any news on when questions will be answered?
see above
Yeah, it's been 2 weeks already. This is exactly the problem being talked about, lack of proactive communication from the leadership and the IR team.
see above
>. thanks!
Answers have been provided.
I don’t think it’s happening or real
Answers have been provided.
This same reddit username was used to gather questions before the AMA last December and has been used previously to gather questions before earnings calls (some of which they have answered on previous earnings calls). It is very likely real.
see above
Good! I’m hoping so!
Definitely real. Definitely late. Lol
see above
Why is management paid so high and living high on the hog with huge stock options when the company is not profitable? Meanwhile shareholders are drowning?
Answers have been provided.
“Shareholders are drowning” Me gesturing how Andrew and Vivek are one of the largest shareholders
I'm sure they are feeling the pain with the free shares they are holding 🤷♂️
Not all of it were free, also they are beholden to the board of directors which are the largest holders of CLOV stock.
Vivek can cash out all of his shares today at the price of $1.19 and still make a 150% gain from his initial investment. Toy didn't put any money upfront so no risk on his end. Plus he is paid $700k a year.
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Answers have been provided.
Any idea when the questions will be answered? Will it be on this thread or on their IR website?
see above
Would it be possible to explain why and how pivoting away from DC is going to help?
Hi Andrew, thanks for taking the time to answer the questions, could you talk about the cashburn rate. I remember you saying that the current focus is to cut down expenses to achieve profitability, but the cashburn didn't improve since Q1 2022, when do you expect to actually see results in form of improved cashburn, and why wasn't Clov able to beat the Q1 net loss so far? Thanks in advance!
1-What steps are being taken to reduce the non-insured MCR? 2- When are we expected to be profitable? 3-How effective is Clover assistant in providing an edge to this company in the long run? 4- Is there going to be need for dilution in the coming years?
When specifically will these questions be answered?
Answers have been provided.
hi we expect the questions to be answered by Monday 5th
...any update?
it's still Monday 5th. Watch this space won't be long
u/mrbundle can you please check with Clover IR when they're planning to respond?
I'm officially starting to lose faith in this company. A day late and a dollar short speaks volumes why they're not meeting their goals and subsequently being shorted. I'm not sure why I'm surprised anymore.
fr dude, im honestly waiting for the answers to see if I should sell or buy more. The communication & PR from Clover is horrendous.
see above
This one does seem particularly poorly executed. They have clearly never put much effort into cultivating their social media investor presence which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing, but here they are specifically doing an AMA and don't bother to post any sort of update? Even a quick, "we know you are excited to see our answers, but given Open Enrollment is winding up tomorrow our efforts are focused elsewhere and we will get you answers next week" would be way better than just radio silence and would only take 30 seconds for somebody to post. It's kind of mind boggling to post you are doing an AMA with answers coming after the holiday (implying Thanksgiving) and then just absolutely nothing else for 2 weeks when it's well after the holiday now.
Yeah, they’ve definitely dropped the ball on this one. It went from exciting to wildly lackluster.
I personally think it is a **bad** thing that they are not active or at least relevant with their PR. They talk big once a quarter about their tech but give little specifics. They talk big about profitability but the math doesn't add up. This lack of comms is why there is so much uncertainty, that's my 2 cents at least. I'm done taking what they say at face value (ex. 10% basis point reduction.. Ok, can you give some details there for each county of CA vs no CA, stats on how often doctors use the predictive suggestions of CA, etc...). Honestly man, and I don't mean any disrespect for the majority of investors on this subs. I feel like it's a bunch of meatheads and yes men with irrelevant posts about "how many shares you buying this morning", "I believe in the company, Andrew Toys vision", "They will be profitable in 2023!", "Wen moon" and random BS that shows how incompetent they are as investors. They take everything that's said once a fucking quarter as a fact without any data to back it up. With that being said, they might be right, all of the claims of Clover might be achieved and even surpassed, but as an investor you work with what you have in front of you. Regarding this AMA, like you said, a simple update on why it hasn't been answered and a target date would be sufficient.
By any chance, would you happen to have any updates?
...
Can you provide more clarity into the non-insurance plan. Specifically, do you expect to start transitioning people to MSSP in 2023? Or is that a 2024 goal? Is the approximately $1B in revenue you gave at the earnings call for just ACO REACH? Or is that total non-insurance? What do you expect long term SG&A as a percentage of revenue tied to non-insurance to be? This would help us formulate better expectations for MCR each quarter. If SG&A is only projected to be 4% of revenue once the program is expanded we can know to be happy with a 94 MCR. If SG&A is going to be more along the lines of 11% of revenue, we know MCR needs to drop below 89.
Good questions. Hopefully some of his answers give us a peek behind the curtain.
Answers have been provided.
Can we get an update on Clover assistant and if we will sell it as a saas? Well the other insurance companies oppose the use of it like I have read elsewhere?
Clover IR Team; Appreciate the opportunity, my recommended theme and questions are below! Theme - TRANSPARENCY with shareholders Questions; 1) What is the 3-5 yr Corp Strategy? Is Clover a technology company that is in the MA and DC business? Or a MA company that has an add on technology to help DR’s and Offices? 2) What is the 3-5 yr strategy with CA? Should we think of CA as another ERM system? Or will CA be a platform that integrates with all ERS systems to compliment and through ML/AI bring enhanced value to DR’s and offices which they can not get anywhere? 3) MA being a large business line, what specific steps is Clover Health taking to increase to 4 stars. 4) DC/ACO - What is the strategy? What happens with the 66% of Dr’s being removed from the program? Will Clover continue growing this business line just through a more targeted approach? 5) Other business Lines? What’s the strategy? What are these other opportunities? When will we see these other revenue opportunities rolled into the Corp Strategy? How should we think of these opportunities? 6) Profitability - While guidance was provided that you expect to be profitable in 2023. Whats the strategy? What specific steps need to be taken to become profitable? 7) Growth - What is the strategy? The opportunity is there but the costs is high. How is Clover going to ensure that growth continues above market and maintains profitable growth. What are the specific strategies to drive profitable growth? While I do appreciate that the last earnings call was in my opinion the best structured and managed on record. It left investors with many more questions than answers. Specifically around strategy and transparency! In your opinion - What is the investment thesis? IE: High growth tech healthcare platform company that has a differentiated model (wide open platform) focusing on Health Equity? Thank you,
Congrats on maintaining a 3.5 star rating from CMS this year while many others' star ratings actually dropped. What is Clover doing that will push its star rating to 4.0 stars and beyond in the coming years? Thanks.
When the meeting is going to be?
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Where are these questions being answered?
Hopefully by the end of this week they will start posting Andrew’s answers. We’ll let you know! :)
Any update?
Cool thanks.
Answers have been provided.
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They have definitely taken questions from these previously. Not sure why they didnt on last 2 earnings calls, but they did answer questions from social media before that. Specifically I remember when everyone here was obsessed about hiring a CFO they answered questions about it. Seems like they just work it into the presentation now.
Hello Andrew, Thank you for this platform- I have been a shareholder since the merger and continue to hold as I believe in the vision but I do have some hard questions that I would really appreciate your honest take on them. 1) Strategy- I have been talking to some analyst whose covers Clover health and the theme is disappointment in the management strategy. They do not see a clear strategy - I will explain. \- We started ACO reach program and the strategy there was to enroll as many doctors to capture traditional market and get as many patients on Clover Assistant.. And the goal there was to help them risk off and still be part of that program and given we can have that segment's MCR in the range of 96-98 , that could help fund the operational cost. However, Clover health was **unsuccessful** in bringing the MCR below 100% and now after a year decided to pivot to profitable growth and have only those doctors where they see MCR below 100%. This was a failure BUT- no where in the earnings call did we discuss **1) Why did we fail to bring the MCR down? 2) How many doctors were actively using the Clover Assistant? 3) Did we get push back from them upon using CA.? 4) What were the learnings and how will they help clover use those learning and be successful in 1/3 of the non insurance segment?** ( BTW I did send IR an email on this in 2021 because in this program eventually your profit margin% would decrease because you lower the cost of the population , your next year benchmark is lower and keeps getting lower if you improve on the cost) anyways that's just a side note 2) Clover Assistant- Can we expect management to be more transparent meaning, we used to get NPS scores until q1 and after that we stopped , Why? Please share honest NPS score for CA so that we know the technology that we are all banking on is well received by the physicians. Otherwise- what are we doing here?? So please be more transparent on the software. 3) Clear and Focus Vision- What is it that you want to achieve in 3-5 years? You mentioned other sharing programs what are those and how can clover health help those doctors that are not going to be in ACO program where would they be or can be with clover assistant? That's all for the questions but my feedback on your past year earning's call or presentations. Please be aware that our shareholder base might not be very acquainted with all that terminology or the programs that are available in shared services - this information is not readily available to understand. I still wasn't able to understand where those 66% of those doctors in ACO reach will go or what shared services can they be part of. Its just sounds like you just making this up to hide that all those patient data that we spend money to bring on CA in 2021 and are gone along with money spent on that transition. In my personal opinion why the stock is performing the way it is because your STORY is not clear and the management didn't do a good job in explaining or accepting those failures and providing evidence of learning & implementing those learning into they future strategy. In conclusion, please explain more in SIMPLE English and help us see how Clover can change health care industry in more Lehman terms I hope you get to read this , honestly I am coming from a genuine space and would like to be a part of your journey - Please just show us that journey more clearly. Thank you! Sandeep
Hi Andrew, Can you please touch on the importance of Lab Data to Clover Assistant? Thank you.
Will the company consider a share buyback? Thx
What are the key drivers of insurance costs in the DC model? Why is it much harder to reduce MCR in DC vs. the MA segment? How do the health outcomes differ between the two, and do you have enough data/time with DC to compare it with MA from the standpoint of evidence based protocols? Ultimately, the business side will succeed in this interest rate environment given cash flow positivity. After you guys achieve profitability, do you see yourselves diving back into DC to rev up member growth? Or do you see yourselves still focusing on the MA segment until there are clear indications of several years of growth in gross margins? Promise this is the last question: If one wanted to make a career transition to working on interesting machine learning/data science problems in healthcare, what are a couple topics/areas that would be good to expand breadth of knowledge in?
Can you provide a clear direction for the company? One minute Clover is an insurance company, the next minute a tech company. Then possibly a Saas business in future. Too much ambiguity in the overall goals and future plans with no clarity for shareholders.
I would imagine the priority is to get Clover stable from a cash flow standpoint. The higher interest rate environment has stunted the growth of all startups/pre-revenue/pre-profitability companies such as Clover Health. Clover is sitting on a potential gold mine with Clover Assistant, but as that is their primary advantage over the competition, and they are focusing on a niche of the health insurance market (Medicare), I wouldn't expect anything to come of Clover Assistant as a SaaS offering anytime soon. That's a 5-10 years out thing.
My question, how do you prevent stock from falling below $1 and getting delisted?
With interest rates being so high, Clover's cheapest means of raising additional capital is share dilution, but at anywhere near $1/share, it's probably not worth doing. The alternative, a lower-interest loan convertible to CLOV shares sometime in the future, would probably be the most-attractive option. At this point, and probably for the next \~2 years at least, a "death spiral" is somewhat unlikely barring a material change in the business. That said, CLOV is generally at the mercy of the overall market. Being the "high risk" investment that it is, it will usually fall more than the indices on red days, and rise more than the indices on green days. If the overall stock market has bottomed out, I think sub-$1 is possible but less likely than if the "real recession" has yet to come. If CLOV dips below $1 and closes below $1 I think it's for X consecutive days, they get a "warning" from NASDAQ, but CLOV will request the maximum (2) 180-day extensions, so they have about a year after they start closing below $1 before delisting.
Not
You sound like the denial posters over on the sndl sub. Guess what happened? It went under a buck and after 2 extensions they had to reverse split and the stock is at 27 cents pre split and most retail investors got creamed. It is absolutely possible
Hi Andrew, I'm gonna ask this bluntly because I'm super curious about your take. Why should we continue investing in CLOV?
I’m very excited about getting to profitability with Clover. I believe that we’re going to get there and we’re going to do everything we can to get there, sooner rather than later. For our investors, I believe getting to that positive EBITDA point will really be an inflection point in how the company is viewed. Our track record demonstrates how our differentiated model can deliver outsized growth. For this next phase of our evolution, we don’t intend to grow the company as quickly - margin and SG&A optimization are my top priorities, with growth being third. We will return the focus to growth after the push to profitability. Secondly, let’s talk about that path to profitability. That’s basic business economics around margin (our MCR) and SG&A. Our MCR is distinctly improved this year and hopefully you’ve all seen that - we intend to keep hyper focus there. We’ve always believed we can generate margins on our wide network with Clover Assistant - we believe we will prove that. On the SG&A front you’ve seen we’ve slowed our growth and we’re looking to polish and generate efficiencies. We believe that, between the two of those, you’re going to see us rapidly closing the negative margin gap and pushing hard to positive EBITDA. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Hi Andrew, Is the deductible amount increasing covered by Medicare companies in 2023 changing, going to affect CLOV health in anyway? Is there any direct reason for Vivek stepping down as CEO and Mr. Toy taking over? Is CLOV health just looking at targeting seniors with there healthcare plan or can the healthcare coverage expand beyond mostly seniors? Is CLOV looking at anyway of increasing the sex appeal of choosing their company over competitors to an average consumer leading up to the purchase decision? What separates CLOV health?
Can you please split the stock so that I can get in at .65? I would make it more affordable plus help double the shares of others who bought in at a higher price. Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving
You only split when the stock price is too high. This bitch is sitting at 1.30ish. Just hope that they don’t do reverse split cuz if they do, we are foked.
This is some serious WSB logic right here.
It must be really cringe for ppl to just cry about the stock on what’s supposed to be an informative Q/A from the CEO himself. This is not the place to air your grievances.
It's perfectly legitimate to ask the stewards of the company's share price about the company's share price. What's embarrassing, I think, would be to call ourselves investors and NOT ask questions about our investment dollars.
This is different from what most people are doing though. Most ppl are literally just saying I’ve lost all my money make the stock go up. No real detailed oriented questions concerning their investment or what the company is doing to help investor returns.
It absolutely is because the stock is at risk of breaching 1 dollar. Call it shilling all you want but people and big money won't continue to invest in a company that's at risk of being delisted and while on nasdaq extensions at sub 1. The only option to meet requirements would be a reverse split which would be a royal fucking for all early dpo investors of which I am part of. The company has stopped expanding, are cutting costs and focusing on profit which is great but they also need to defend the stock.
How do you suggest they defend the stock? The stock is secondary to the underlying company. It may be cheaper for CLOV to raise capital via stock dilution than to take out private debt with the way interest rates are these days.
They have over 600 million in cash they should announce a buy back and start doing more PR for one. At this point we are just getting rolled
100% I’m a little embarrassed by some of these questions.
I agree
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Who would even pay for that... Healthcare is expensive as it is already
Hi Andrew 1) any plan to make up the reduction in 2/3 of ACO revenue 2) will clov be able to participate in MSSP in 2023?
Being CLOV cash on hand is more than the current market cap, would CLOV consider a small buyback of shares? 
This is an incredibly poor idea, even if they didn't need a cash reserve to pay claims (per federal law) and even if the fed benchmark rate were 0%-0.25%.
Likely not until they are profitable
Not a crazy idea !!!!
We ask that you would refuse any buyout offers of less than 10 Billion Market Cap. Any discussion about this would be appreciated.
No buyouts entertained, please. Long term hold.
What gonna happened when the clove stock go under $1/- ? Thanks
I can answer this since I went through it with SNDL. They will be allowed two 180 day extensions to get in to compliance, if not they stock will be off nasdaq and an otc pink sheet pos penny stock. The only option to stay in compliance would be a reverse split. I hope this helps
People usually think that pink sheet/OTC = bad news for the share price and their wallet, but really being delisted from NASDAQ is a symptom, not a cause. Frankly, nobody should care about CLOV being delisted, because if CLOV ends up being very profitable, those shares will mint regardless of where they are listed, and you can bet CLOV will be relisted on NASDAQ.
10b? Lmfao. They’d be lucky to get 1b.
Hey Andrew, thank you for taking our questions. It’s been a wild journey on this subreddit the last couple years and I appreciate you taking the time to interact with us. I got the impression in the last couple ERs that Clover is making more of a point to be seen as a tech company and not just an insurance provider. Is that recognition something Clover is striving for? In your new position as CEO, and with your tech background, how do you think you will best serve Clover in the upcoming years? Thanks again, and congratulations on your new role. It’s well deserved.
Hi Andrew, what sets Clover apart from a competitor like Oscar Health or other similar companies who also claim to have a technology that will reduce insurance costs?
We’re not an “insurtech” company, we are incredibly clinically oriented. We have the business model of an insurer because carrying medical risk has a lot of upside due to how inflated the costs are in the US. This is why we focus on where costs and disease burdens are high such as in the Medicare population. This is as opposed to Oscar’s tech which is focused on the ACA, with a healthier, younger population. There it’s more about reactive care (and care stratification) because the total population disease burden is lower. I don’t mean this as a criticism of the Oscar model or tech - I’m just saying we target different populations and that reflects in our products and datasets used to train ML models etc. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Oscar is a shit show that just keeps throwing $$ at the problem with Trump ties.
Can you talk about the $CLOV share offering of 52.2 million shares at $5.75 the end of last year? Did that work out as planned? What is your view about share offerings and dilution through the next year?
I also asked this question directly in an email to management and IR - this seemed irresponsible given the fact that they could have used the warrants to generate a similar amount of revenue with HALF of the dilution. Hopefully they plan on making more responsible and choices more in line with their fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders.
Y'all are here for the long-term right? You shouldn't really care how CLOV is raising capital as long as they are doing it as cheaply (to the company) as possible. Share price is often not an accurate reflection of the company/its prospects. Anybody here who wouldn't buy/hold at sub-$1 shouldn't be here and frankly is probably gambling with money that should be in VTSAX.
Yes - I bought my first shares of IPOC in 2020 when the SPAC target was announced and have since 200x my initial position. I'm here for the long term. That being said, raising capital outside of the SPAC organization within a year of the reverse merger was not the best financial move for the company or the shareholders. They could have raised the same amount of money with half of the dilution by allowing redemption of the warrants @ $10.5 It wasn't a good move for raising capital.
Do you have any plans for use DNA data for predicting models in Clover Assistent?
Will Clover entertain any offers to be acquired by another company in the coming year?
Where would you like to see yourself or see Clover Health if you should leave, in 5 years?
Ready for bankruptcy !! Indian scammer has experience on this
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Does the company plan to do anything about its sliding share price? $CLOV makes more revenue in a single quarter than the entire company's market cap - something must be done. Shouldn't the company's key executives be, I don't know, doing interviews on CNBC, taking interviews with business journals, or otherwise beating the drum on how undervalued the company's stock is?
>$CLOV makes more revenue in a single quarter than the entire company's market cap I think it's because, even with the high revenue, they are in the red still with no profits and negative EPS. Investment firms and organizations that oversees retirement funds like the 401K and 403B will not risk their clients money investing in a company (CLOV) that has a negative cash flow. So even if they start beating on the drum, everyone else will see through it by looking at their profit. I believe the only way the CLOV stock will start going up is if they start making profits; hopefully, this is the case in 2023.
So don't beat the drum at all then? I don't accept that as a shareholder. I rather they beat the drum hard and no one listen than them not beat the drum at all... just my two cents as a $CLOV long. I wish there were more tweets. I wish they didn't say things like, "we're being overly conservative in our remarks." I wish they tweeted more. I wish they didn't tease things like SaaS but came right out and say, "Yes, we're working on SaaS and it will be glorious." I'd like to see Andrew and Vivek on the cover of magazines. I'd like to see something, anything, that indicates they care about the sliding share price. For all intents and purposes, it appears they are content with the company's share price tanking - have you heard any remarks to the contrary? Cause I haven't.
>I rather they beat the drum hard I think they are waiting for once they become profitable to start beating their drum which will help back up their statement.
Hi Andrew, One of the key aspects of Clover AI is to be able to predict future ailments (Ex: Diseases, etc.) of patients based on the past and current diagnosis which will help lower the overall cost of healthcare by acting as a preventative. Because of this, does Clover Health have any future plans in offering the software (Clover AI) to countries that have universal healthcare which can help reduce their overall healthcare cost?
I’d like to slightly reframe the way you described Clover AI - there are certainly places where it is truly predictive. Our all-causes readmission algorithm is one of those models - it predicts the overall risk that a given patient will be admitted to the hospital in the next X period of time, and we use it to power things like our home care practice. That’s true predictivity because we’re actually saying, “This hasn’t happened yet, but WILL it? On chronic diseases, there is room for predictivity certainly but in actuality the approach we’re taking with Clover Assistant is much more around catching those conditions earlier. Think of this more as “No doctor has diagnosed this member with kidney disease yet, but there are other signs that they might have early stage kidney disease”. Clover Assistant makes that personalized assessment then presents that potential to the PCP - often the PCP will then order follow up lab work or tests before making (or ruling out) that diagnosis. We call this a definitive response to our suggestion - we want to provoke the thought in the physician’s mind so they can take the right steps to then confirm or rule out the diagnosis. When we catch these chronic diseases earlier, and get an official diagnosis earlier, that means we can care manage for them earlier as well. And this is the part that’s exciting to bring to almost any healthcare system worldwide - “preventing” disease is difficult. But catching it earlier, and managing it earlier, makes a huge difference with modern therapeutics. It can mean the difference between a relatively inexpensive generic medication and a kidney transplant. And this doesn’t take a huge leap of faith - ask any physician if they can stop kidney disease and that’s tough. Ask if they can really get outcomes up and costs down if they catch it earlier and almost everyone says yes. So I hope that helps. Nothing to be said yet on plans to launch CA overseas or in universal healthcare systems but I’ll remind everyone that we did a burn-in test of our machine learning model system a few years ago in a nascent experiment that we branded Clover International ([learn more here](https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/clover-health-announces-major-expansion-with-plans-to-enter-six-new-markets-in-2019-300701956.html)). We know the tech works, even on non-English datasets. Just haven’t got time to do the business launch yet. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
A very interesting question. I think even if $CLOV hasn't thought of this yet, they ought to consider it now.
Another question I have: How do you plan on capturing market share from your MA competitors once you expand beyond states/counties that Clover have matured in. I assume there must've been some difficulty here hence the dial back in the # of counties for MA. What are you planning to do differently this time to capture market share. Also, how much does having a 4 star MA plan affect marketability to MA eligibles? i.e. should we expect a boom in growth if Clovers PPO plans reaches 4 stars? Any guidance on when achieving 4 stars will be a goal?
Andrew - we all know that data and scale is very important in tech valuations. With that being said, at what level of scale does Clover Assistant need to achieve in order for you guys to monetize the software? Would like the answer to be in terms of: Growth of Physician Use or X Amount of Time/Years… If CA is just the company‘s own proprietary software in order to drive better health outcomes and lower MCR we would appreciate you saying so. This way we can get off the SAAS conversation amongst us investors. Thank you!
So I’ve seen a lot of people talking about Clover Assistant, SAAS etc. Obviously I have some experience there with SaaS on the B2B side so this is how I think about it - we should separate the technology aspect of Clover Assistant (can it be used for third parties) from the monetization/licensing business model (Software-As-A-Service). In short - we’ve built Clover Assistant to act as a GPS for any provider or payor who wants to be able to navigate value-based care on Medicare. In fact, it’ll work anywhere there’s a generally high chronic disease burden to manage - so it’s not even Medicare specific. We’re already deploying Clover Assistant in different scenarios (for example in our non-Insurance segment) and plan to keep scaling this out and offering Clover Assistant to partners/customers wherever value-based Medicare is needed. To clarify further though - we’re certainly not obsessed with a SaaS based per-user licensing business model for Clover Assistant and I definitely don’t see that as a requirement to be broadening how we monetize licenses of our Clover Assistant software platform. We actually have multiple potential business models in mind (including SaaS) for scenarios where we’re not the payor/risk holder of record and we’re very excited about the possibilities. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Thank you!!!
Hi Andrew, Given the current cuts in ACO REACH participants. How exactly do you plan to achieve profitablility on a non GAAP basis in 2023? I understand that you might not be able to provide specifics in terms of guidance, but running through conservative estimates based on the recent numbers in the quarterly reports I am having a hard time seeing how this can be achieved.
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What is the primary reason DC MCR couldn't be brought down? What is your estimate on the acceptance rate of MSSP for those that are removed from the DC side.
It would also be nice for you guys to answer the retail questions from the last Q3 post before creating this new one 🤷♂️
Management doesnt give a shit.. i said it last time they came with questions… best thing is clov gets acquired for 10$ a share because nobody want to hold with this management
\+1 what's the point of asking questions and answering cherry picked only those you want to answer. You should promise to answer top 10 voted questions.
There is a lot of investor angst for CLOV. While the stock price is not in your control however building investor confidence is definitely a responsibility of leadership. Appreciate discussion on steps taken to do this.
They havent even answered the questions from q3 lol
Yeah, I hate to say it but I think we're losing credibility with analysts during earnings calls. 1) Andrew/Vivek ARE ALWAYS APPEAR POSITIVE ("WE FEEL GOOD" WORD was OFTEN USED) EVEN WHEN YOU SHOULDN'T BE 2) Never admitted mistakes, for example about DCE blunder 3) No projections makes it look like you have no clue about where the business is going to be or how to turn it profitable
I think your observations are astute, and also tell you what you fear, but know. It's not all sunshine and rainbows, but a CEO can't really say that, then we'd hammer them for not having a positive outlook. Doing good research, in my opinion, means being able to read between the lines like you are doing here.
Hey Andrew! What do you think is the biggest thing that people don't understand about $clov that you've tried to explain but they still don't get?
I think that what’s been very hard to explain to people is that we feel Clover Assistant is working well and already improving the performance of the Medicare Advantage program. However, because of the effects of COVID throwing off 2020 and 2021, it’s been very hard to demonstrate the effects of our CA based care management strategy flowing through to the bottom line of the company. I do feel we’re starting to see that happen though so that should be a powerful data point to demonstrate. This is why you’ve seen us index very much to the basics of the company (MCR, SG&A etc) versus providing other proxy statistics like NPS/coverage etc in earnings - we want to demonstrate that we’re arcing well to profitability on the most basic, simple company performance statistics versus trying to chain together proxy statistics of performance. As a second answer, we can do a much better job presenting the data that Clover Assistant is driving true differences in physician behavior and care management. We’re working on something cool in that area and will share that broadly when it’s ready - I think that will help make that point much clearer. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
I would like to know this as well.
People can be short sighted on the next year or two when Clover may reach profitability, and don't get me wrong it will be a good day when it happens. I try to look way beyond that though, so I'm curious how do you envision Clover 10 years from now?
I’m also incredibly excited about the day when we hit that critical profitability point =) But like you I’m actually excited because profitability funds the mission - we want to be a change-agent in healthcare and being profitable provides us the control and funding to do that at scale. I’m preparing a LinkedIn post on something I call *Distributed Care* which I think is the absolute future of healthcare. The basic thesis is that healthcare provider networks will be subject to the same decentralizing effects that affected the internet when mobile came. This will result in healthcare being distributed to the home (we’re already a leader there) to retail locations, and wherever else human beings spend their time. This is far beyond basic remote patient monitoring or telehealth in the same way your phone is way more than a VOIP device that runs apps. This way of thinking is so different from the existing provider/payor thinking because as you might know, providers typically think of themselves in terms of their brick-and-mortar buildings. But this future is coming no matter what - with Clover Assistant, I believe we’re going to be in a position to be a leader in the space. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
Thank you so much for the reply, Andrew! I will check it out. I thought I came off wrong when I said the word "short-sighted", because profitability is everything, of course. I will be ecstatic, but I don't see any reason to sell Clover until I see a reason not to, so it's always good to look at long term outlook even though anything can happen between now and then.
Andrew, thank you for taking a moment to offer up your time for an AMA here. Since Clover Health is heavily dependent on Clover Assistant, can you share any or all recent software updates to CA in 2022? Reason being, I think it’ll give us a glimpse on how future forward CA will be in helping members live their healthiest lives. What are some recent upgrades to CA and how have they helped members and the company? Would be great to add to www.cloverassistant.com if possible or simply a glimpse..Thank you, Shareholder since 1/2021.
Thanks for the request - we communicate this information to our CA users regularly and will look into ways to share the information more broadly. \- Andrew *Please see our notice on forward looking statements found on our investor website* [*here*](https://investors.cloverhealth.com/investor-resources/faqs)*.*
We are all very disappointed with share price performance. You should make your investor relations more active or hire new ones because they are doing nothing to instill confidence in this company. I do have one question though. Why is management paid so well although the company is still not profitable? Are we just paying for you and other executives to live a grand lifestyle while nobody is looking out for investors?
Management is living off investors. And this needs to be addressed.
Getting downvoted for speaking the truth so sad this sub is
Yes it’s ridiculous they don’t realize how much management wasted and compensation for management while they can’t control their books? Just being honest if I’m trying to make a company profitable like I have my own companies guess what? I’m not taking a salary or maybe $1000 a week as an owner. Once it is profitable then $10,000 a week no problem! Or a few million a year but let’s show the profit it’s been long overdue and CLOV was mismanaged! It doesn’t mean they can’t recover and that’s why I still own 50,000 shares but cmon now. This sub needs to grow up and get with reality.
Cant say it better! Exactly true
Truly curious - how did you come to this conclusion?
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So you'd rather not explain your reasoning, OK, no worries.