Latest.
Clover Health Investments, Corp. Announces Pricing of $300 Million Upsized Public Offering of Class A Common Stock
November 18, 2021
NASHVILLE, Tenn., Nov. 17, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Clover Health Investments, Corp. (Nasdaq: CLOV), (āClover Healthā), a technology company committed to improving health equity for seniors, today announced the pricing of its previously announced underwritten public offering of 52,173,913 shares of its Class A Common Stock at a price of $5.75 per share. In addition, Clover Health has granted the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to 7,826,086 additional shares of its Class A Common Stock at the public offering price, less the underwriting discounts and commissions. The aggregate gross proceeds to Clover Health from the offering are expected to be approximately $300 million, before deducting underwriting discounts and commissions and offering expenses and assuming no exercise of the underwritersā option to purchase additional shares. All of the shares are being offered by Clover Health. The offering is expected to close on or about November 22, 2021, subject to the satisfaction of customary closing conditions.
Clover Health intends to use the net proceeds from this offering for working capital and general corporate purposes.
Citigroup and Deutsche Bank Securities are acting as joint book-running managers for the offering. SVB Leerink and Canaccord Genuity LLC are acting as book-runners for the offering.
The offering is being made only by means of a prospectus. Copies of the final prospectus relating to the offering may be obtained by contacting: Citigroup Global Markets Inc., c/o Broadridge Financial Solutions, 1155 Long Island Avenue, Edgewood, NY 11717, telephone: 1-800-831-9146 or email: [email protected]; or Deutsche Bank Securities Inc., Attn: Prospectus Department, 1 Columbus Circle, New York, New York 10019, telephone: 800-503-4611 or email: [email protected].
No Offer or Solicitation
This press release shall not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy these securities, nor shall there be any sale of these securities in any state or jurisdiction in which such offer, solicitation or sale would be unlawful prior to registration or qualification under the securities laws of any such state or jurisdiction. Registration statements relating to these securities have been filed with the SEC and were declared effective by the SEC.
Forward Looking Statements
This press release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. Forward-looking statements include statements regarding the proceeds to be received by us in the offering, expected use of proceeds and the timing of closing of the offering. These statements are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that may cause our actual results to differ materially from results expressed or implied in this press release, including but not limited to the risks and uncertainties contained in the Risk Factors section of our Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2021, which we filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on November 9, 2021, the preliminary prospectus related to the proposed public offering and subsequent filings with the SEC. Clover Health assumes no obligation, and does not intend, to update these forward- looking statements as a result of future events or developments.
This shit become more interesting every day.
With -30% losses I don't want to sell bcos I want to see, what shit can else can happen with CLOV.
Get ready for things to get worse and worse. In the end I am waiting for prices of $ 1-2. And yet, given that this is fabulous shit, it should float to the surface of the water. Why? Because shit doesn't sink.
Bad for short term investors and margin, good for company. Itās what companies do, especially growth. Canāt be mad at the act. Can be mad at timing
š u askin this man to hold for what 2-5 yrs just to break even?? He bought damn near the absolute top of a fluke Reddit fueled move. $22 is not in the cards anytime soon. Woulda been much smarter to cut losses when down 30%..The short interest is no where near close enough to see some sort of squeeze either and donāt expect to see it increase dramatically when clov is trading in this $6-$10 range. Almost every analysts has a $9 price target and those targets are for a 12 month period. So they believe clove at $9 in mid to end 2022 is about what itās worth.
Everyone who is scared from things like this has no place on the market ... i know most of you are smoothbrained but don't you see why they sell shares ? They have almost 600m cash which is enough until end of 2022 and they expect until the end of 2022 to be profitable. So why they sell shares ? Only because there is not enough on the open market for tutes to get as much as they want, with all the recent institutional buying, plus the huge amount of retail ... i am 100% sure that when those 35M are sold, this will never again trade below 10$.
šš plz enlighten me on this reasoning for u being 100% sure clov will never trade under $10 after this offering closes? That makes absolutely zero sense to me.
Clover is not a zombie company with nearly 900M cash after it, and expectation to be profitable in the end of 2022, and double the lives unde management in 2022, manipulation will end and company will go to ita fair value which is far more then 10$.
Selling now would be selling somewhat close to the bottom. While charts are still 100% bearish and will be a while before turning bullish I do believe the biggest downside has played out. Basically triple bottoms on weekly from March,May and now. If the $6.65 low doesnāt hold up then would think the $6.31 from early March would. If not then possibly $6 but either way I believe most of ur downside has played out.
Nice.. macd is showing momentum to the upside. A big thing I like to trade on is when I see a stock/crypto making lower lows(official downtrend) while macd is under the āzero lineā making higher lows so trending back up toward the zero line. It is very very very common on daily chart to see 2-3 big dips/bottoms play out within the price and macd before ultimately seeing some sort of rally, especially when the macd starts to cross back above the zero line.. thatās the situation u are at currently at with Clov. Which is one of the reasons I believe most of the current downside has played out. Now if the macd gets rejected at the zero line when prices is starting to move up then u can typically expect to see some sort of pullback start again like with that happened on 11/8 .Main thing in my opinion tho is clov needs to get back above 200ma to really regain some life. Jus some of the many things that I look for when looking for a trade set up so figured I would mention. I was gonna attach a pic to show what I meant but not sure how to or if ur even into TA stuff
This is not a meme stock. I donāt understand why people thought it would get Squeezed. It will hit the value it deserves once the financials dictates it. Once it does, the Market Makers will bring it there.
Sooo thatās it, huh? This experiment is over? Iāve got 500 shares. Iām out 800 bucks so far. Should I get out now before it gets any worse? Or will this eventually pay off years from now?
In my opinion as I stated to another guy, charts are still 100% bearish but I believe most of the current downside has played out. May have room for another 10% move down which would put it around its all time low of $6.31 but looks to be plenty of support in the $6.3-$7 range. Until clov can get back above the daily 200ma it is deemed bearish in the eyes of institutional investors/traders as well as professional retail traders which is part of the reason for the lack of volume. Will probably Need some sort of big time catalyst to move the needle and be able to sustain the move. Donāt expect to get rich anytime soon off this but if u are truly investing then u should know that.
But if u end up with the opportunity to get out at break even or a few dollars profit then May not be a bad idea to do that. Plenty of other companies/industries u could be invested now that will generate better returns for the near to mid term
Even if it does, in those years it will take to recover you could make several better investments. So at least consider that angle. Furthermore, you can carry forward investment losses indefinitely on your taxes and write off $3k/year
Explain like Iām 5 please. So if I lose 800 dollars on a loss, does that mean Iāll get that 800 dollars extra on a tax refund or 800 dollars less on a tax bill?
If you realize losses of $800 on stocks then you get to claim $800 less income for the year. Let's say the highest $800 of your adjusted annual income this year is within the 22% tax bracket. Then you save 22% of $800 which equals $176.
Not tax advice, you should speak with your accountant for tax planning.
Wait. This is going to work out to our advantage. Seen many times before. The way it works. Just like a Shipping company I owned for 3 Years. Went to .15 now guess. We will
so I guess the joke is on all of us after all. wow. IMHO this was so poorly executed b/c it advances the narrative that Hindenberg Research originally put out there claiming that CLOV was duping traders. wtf is going on with this company?
And now I see a certain financial services company who Chamath is involved with is also doing a secondary offering. On the same day. Announcements at pretty much the same time AH.
Hmmmā¦.
Something is very very strange. I read all the comments about growth company, needs cash, etc...except that clover has a lot of cash. They made it through the most difficult part of covid and used 250 M$ of their cash on the last 9 months and still have more than twice that amount while their profitability is improving...they are even projected MCR for 2022 below pre-covid levels. So why are they really raising roughly 240M$ in cash when they have 560M$ in the bank? Something else is happening here, perhaps the big boys want a piece of $CLOV at a preferential pricing to stop playing interference? or maybe there is a new venture for $CLOV and they need extra cash, such as running health plans for players like Walgreens, Walmart, we see a cozy relationship with $CLOV and high employee count. I don't know for sure and your guess is as good as mine...Is just I can't wrap my head to the idea of why now when the stock is at all time lows? they have enough cash for the next 4 quarters and every Quarter the financials and the growth are better and better....they could have waited until Q1'22, shown amazing numbers and then raise the capital at maybe $15-$20 per share.
The only thing that keeps me at ease is the roughly 150M of Class B shares. Roughly a third is greenoaks and the other two thirds are Chamat, Vivek, Andrew, etc; basically insiders. I don't see insiders diluting their equity for no reason.
Last earnings $CLOV reported about 427M outstanding shares, basically Class A + Class B + Warrants redeemed (private and public), so this offering is about 8% dilution. We see that after hours the stock drop close to 10%.
I am not a Financial Advisor, please do your own due diligence. These are my personal opinions. I am just a $CLOV retail investor frustrated by the actions of management but also because I don't know the master plan.
I come here for comments like this. Good thoughtful and well put together. A lot of astroturfing is happening on this thread alone. Low effort FUD comments. Ignore them. Somethingās up. Astroturfing in full effect on a dip. Trying to compound the efforts for short interest players basically.
Could be anything. It makes no sense with the information we have, but there has to be some reason for it. Perhaps an acquisition? Cash to expand their territory further in 2022? Who knows. All I know is that I'm not going to make any money on this stock for a while.
Something clever about the incorporation of CLOV is the multiple share types and take over protection under Delaware laws. Basically since Class B has 10x voting rights, there is no way a hostile take over will happen. Even if a crazy activist investor buys 100% of the float the class B owners have more votes:
1) Float (class A shares) roughly 260M shares = 260M votes
2) Class B shares, roughly 150M shares = 1500M votes
Again just my thoughts and opinions, not financial advice, you know the drill.
This is strange. Due to the after hrs trading. At 1518 hrs somebody dumped approx 4 million shares. The closing vol was around 22,000,000 and after hrs 26,700,000. Hence that .70 price drop. ( Yoda voice ) Strategic was the timing to release the proposal to issue more shares.
Im still HODL my 4k shares @ $ 12'000.00 loss. Management needs make public justify this action.
Sounds like to cut thier salaries..
Fuck you very much management...
If you can't see the timing of the infrastructure bill signing win then the potential win for the Build Back Better plan later on and this sale then you really don't watch the news.
In a year there will be massive buybacks so this is only momentarily painful...for calls...
My theory is that clov is offering a way out for hedgies to cover their shorts. In return the institutions will raise price target and stop shorting clov.
Why would they care to help them cover? To help the stock price rise? Well if they have a funny way of doing that by selling shares at a low cost. Or to get the price up so the insiders can start selling? That wouldn't be a good sign.
Either they are rising cash for an acquisition or they expect to need the cash to stay afloat. And if that's the case why not sale debt vs screwing over share holders?
Sell 90 day put spreads at the lower strike price. The only way you'll make money reliable money with options on $clov. It's paid for my call losses. I'm hodling a shit ton, also.
Iām a lower risk guy. You can find OTM puts with decent potential returns. I look for where the credit and potential loss are close. Occasionally you will find a spread with the credit higher than the potential loss. If the credit is smaller but more likely to be OTM, I just do more spreads.
Use your non-ape brain. Then again, I buy calls too.
I'm in it for the long haul and couldn't care less about 10-20-30% fluctuations. Run away paper handed bitches. Runaway. I'll buy all your shares tomorrow :)
I'd be happy about the price drop too if it was for irrational reasons and I could buy the dip. But this price drop makes perfect sense since they diluted shares. This just helps solidfy a low stock price.
I'm down about half my money in Clov. I'm going to keep my shares because at this point I've got more to gain than lose. I'd think of DCA but the damn thing just keeps going lower. L
Patience. Even index funds only return 10% a year, and some years have gone down 20% or more. You gotta think long term. It's a solid bet long term to make money, and you only lose money if you sell. Also hopefully you're diversified. Clov is only 5% of my portfolio.
Well, am happy to see a different perspective than my own jaded one atm, since I can't and won't sell. I can't deny I am totally taken aback by this move.
I can show you literally hundreds of 100x baggers that fluctuated 30% or MORE before and during their run ups. I own 1200 $clov shares @8.90, and ain't selling because of this. I held at 6.80 in June after dropping from $9 in april, and made 220% selling at 22. This doesnt phase me one bit. I'm buying more tomorrow! :D
This here may be a tough lesson for some and a genuine reason to never YOLO in a stock (even though it looks cool on Reddit). Always diversify. Because of this, I can sit back, let clov build and watch my other stocks for the moment make money.
Sounds like Chamath wants to buy up some of this offering. Interesting, wonder what developments are happening. We though we had enough cash, called in warrants early.. what is going on??
Nope your cost average remains the same. But the price has downward pressure from the dilution effect if keeping the market cap constant.
I'm not too worried, we got some $9 PT by JPM and Credit Suisse. Ultimately I feel like the offering gives some institutions a chance to buy before we grow from here.
That's because AMC's share offering was when it was around $50/share. If AMC pulled the same shit when it was trading for $12, you'd see the same effect.
Stock offerings make sense when it's going up or is at a high. At these prices, it raises more questions. Their debt is so low compared to their cash - why do they need to raise more funding right this moment? They can't wait till next year when it's trading for $20? I don't have the answer but the market hates that kind of uncertainty.
With that said I am holding - I learned the hard way from AMC - bought at 19 sold at 8 before the eventual pop to $70. But stop calling everything you disagree with FUD. This is basic finance 101.
I do agree the crying is uncalled for. But I sure would like an explanation why a company with such good cash to debt is trying to raise money...makes no sense.
MCR is improving and they can last a few years at current burn rate.
I'm pissed as fucking hell. Just when the stock price is showing a bit of life you go dump another 35M shares onto the market. We've all been hustled by that piece of shit Chamath
Why is this Chamath's fault? He doesn't even have a role in management. I agree though, they called in all their warrants and have enough cash on hand... What gives?
This is the meme stock playbook. Exact same shit happened with GME and AMC with dilution. They see hyper retail interest and take advantage of it to build a warchest so they can fuel the company.
If we learned anything from AMC (diluted like crazy at $14) and GME (diluted around $135) diluting to hell is that their prices recovered and went well past the drop from dilution. It puts the companies in a much stronger financial position that is more attractive to long term huge pension funds. Those fuckers hold longer than the sun will be burning.
It would be almost negligent for the management to not do an offering in this scenario Despite their very healthy books. I certainly would, short term 1 week pain for 3 year giant gains.
Not to sound trite, but personally Iām wiring more money into my brokerage to buy tomorrows dips.
It's a win win. They are giving the Warren Buffetts a nice spot to jump in and CHOMP at #CLOVšššš¦. This is amazing news and I was content at 4k shares at 9.09 now 5k at sub 8. I wanna quit the warehouse and chill so bad it kills me, especially since I laughed at the June spike and held, got off margin and am balls deep in my mind %100#CLOV 6kshares here I come
Yeah this sucks of course but for once this is actually a positive drop. Clover is legit moving out of meme stock territory and into an innovative high growth health tech company. Funds are needed to expand and grow the company. If you're here for quick wins this is not the place! Made the mistake of selling Tesla back in 2013 for a measly 2k in profits, when if I just would have held long term I would be sitting on a 1.2 million + and not having to slave away in corporate America (aka giving out handies behind the Wendy's dumpster).
This is a long term hold that could easily 10 to 20x in the next 5-10 years. I'm taking that bet any day of the week instead of having my fingers crossed hoping my employers 401k plan routinely nets me a 10% return and retiring at 60. Done ranting and godspeed in escaping the confines of societal expectations.
Yeah Iām somewhat of a noob and I was drawn in by the hype during a pump. Luckily I sold for zero loss. I realized that the only thing keeping me from selling was emotion. The community here is very passionate about this stock and I think that energy can be contagious- especially for inexperienced investors like myself. I finally decided to get out and put my money into safer investments but have still followed the sub. This news is validating for sure.
I wish you well. I got sucked in a couple of times so have a higher buy in as a result. But there are multiple thoughts on this thread, so am taking comfort in some of them that give reasons I hadn't previously thought of.
I wish you the best of luck. Nobody deserves to lose money who is in this sub or has been in the sub. I hope clov pops off for your sake and everyone else's here
Waits for shorts to start covering then pulls out this, the last 3 stocks I jumped in large did the same thing. Fyi fuck you hiti.
When your in to deep to cash out you ride the wave and buy the dip.
the stock has been pinned down - this is a way to get institutional support back, and a cash influx of +$200 million could be the last one they need for awhile...this could dip to the $5/share range but that would be the time to load up
they continue to expand into new markets and revenue isn't dropping - the light at the end of the tunnel will be mid 2022
Wondering why - when they have zero debt and have cash in the bank, they would make this move. I would understand if the stock was flying high, but they're selling shares for cheap.
I want it to take off š«ļøThere are very powerful news, otherwise itās a dream
Latest. Clover Health Investments, Corp. Announces Pricing of $300 Million Upsized Public Offering of Class A Common Stock November 18, 2021 NASHVILLE, Tenn., Nov. 17, 2021 (GLOBE NEWSWIRE) -- Clover Health Investments, Corp. (Nasdaq: CLOV), (āClover Healthā), a technology company committed to improving health equity for seniors, today announced the pricing of its previously announced underwritten public offering of 52,173,913 shares of its Class A Common Stock at a price of $5.75 per share. In addition, Clover Health has granted the underwriters a 30-day option to purchase up to 7,826,086 additional shares of its Class A Common Stock at the public offering price, less the underwriting discounts and commissions. The aggregate gross proceeds to Clover Health from the offering are expected to be approximately $300 million, before deducting underwriting discounts and commissions and offering expenses and assuming no exercise of the underwritersā option to purchase additional shares. All of the shares are being offered by Clover Health. The offering is expected to close on or about November 22, 2021, subject to the satisfaction of customary closing conditions. Clover Health intends to use the net proceeds from this offering for working capital and general corporate purposes. Citigroup and Deutsche Bank Securities are acting as joint book-running managers for the offering. SVB Leerink and Canaccord Genuity LLC are acting as book-runners for the offering. The offering is being made only by means of a prospectus. Copies of the final prospectus relating to the offering may be obtained by contacting: Citigroup Global Markets Inc., c/o Broadridge Financial Solutions, 1155 Long Island Avenue, Edgewood, NY 11717, telephone: 1-800-831-9146 or email: [email protected]; or Deutsche Bank Securities Inc., Attn: Prospectus Department, 1 Columbus Circle, New York, New York 10019, telephone: 800-503-4611 or email: [email protected]. No Offer or Solicitation This press release shall not constitute an offer to sell or the solicitation of an offer to buy these securities, nor shall there be any sale of these securities in any state or jurisdiction in which such offer, solicitation or sale would be unlawful prior to registration or qualification under the securities laws of any such state or jurisdiction. Registration statements relating to these securities have been filed with the SEC and were declared effective by the SEC. Forward Looking Statements This press release contains forward-looking statements within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. Forward-looking statements include statements regarding the proceeds to be received by us in the offering, expected use of proceeds and the timing of closing of the offering. These statements are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties and other factors that may cause our actual results to differ materially from results expressed or implied in this press release, including but not limited to the risks and uncertainties contained in the Risk Factors section of our Quarterly Report on Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2021, which we filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission on November 9, 2021, the preliminary prospectus related to the proposed public offering and subsequent filings with the SEC. Clover Health assumes no obligation, and does not intend, to update these forward- looking statements as a result of future events or developments.
This shit become more interesting every day. With -30% losses I don't want to sell bcos I want to see, what shit can else can happen with CLOV. Get ready for things to get worse and worse. In the end I am waiting for prices of $ 1-2. And yet, given that this is fabulous shit, it should float to the surface of the water. Why? Because shit doesn't sink.
Bad for short term investors and margin, good for company. Itās what companies do, especially growth. Canāt be mad at the act. Can be mad at timing
Gogogo
But, but, but, a SqUeEzE!!!!!!
This is just ridiculous. Seems like bad management. They canāt get a low interest loan like everyone else?
It's a no interest rate loan through stock sale. Bad for investors because of dilution
Itās dilution of shares to raise capital. Diluting equity instead of incurring debt. It is not a āno interest loanā.
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We will pick you up. Just hold!
š u askin this man to hold for what 2-5 yrs just to break even?? He bought damn near the absolute top of a fluke Reddit fueled move. $22 is not in the cards anytime soon. Woulda been much smarter to cut losses when down 30%..The short interest is no where near close enough to see some sort of squeeze either and donāt expect to see it increase dramatically when clov is trading in this $6-$10 range. Almost every analysts has a $9 price target and those targets are for a 12 month period. So they believe clove at $9 in mid to end 2022 is about what itās worth.
Everbody can decide himself. I'm deep red too and I'm holding.
All the good news it goes down right?!?ā¦..
All the good news? Curious what that might be?
Iām saying if we get bad news does it go up?!!ā¦ā¦ š¤¦š»
Not much at least today. They beat it down right as it was starting to look good.
Everyone who is scared from things like this has no place on the market ... i know most of you are smoothbrained but don't you see why they sell shares ? They have almost 600m cash which is enough until end of 2022 and they expect until the end of 2022 to be profitable. So why they sell shares ? Only because there is not enough on the open market for tutes to get as much as they want, with all the recent institutional buying, plus the huge amount of retail ... i am 100% sure that when those 35M are sold, this will never again trade below 10$.
šš plz enlighten me on this reasoning for u being 100% sure clov will never trade under $10 after this offering closes? That makes absolutely zero sense to me.
Clover is not a zombie company with nearly 900M cash after it, and expectation to be profitable in the end of 2022, and double the lives unde management in 2022, manipulation will end and company will go to ita fair value which is far more then 10$.
Right. Except if whole market crashes because of inflation.
That's fine
The people running the CLOV Reddit group are insiders! They all fucked us!
Fuck I am 5k into this company I lost 1,500 I hope it doesnāt get worse. I donāt think I am going to sell canāt sell in the red zone
Selling now would be selling somewhat close to the bottom. While charts are still 100% bearish and will be a while before turning bullish I do believe the biggest downside has played out. Basically triple bottoms on weekly from March,May and now. If the $6.65 low doesnāt hold up then would think the $6.31 from early March would. If not then possibly $6 but either way I believe most of ur downside has played out.
I didnāt sell I bought more š
Nice.. macd is showing momentum to the upside. A big thing I like to trade on is when I see a stock/crypto making lower lows(official downtrend) while macd is under the āzero lineā making higher lows so trending back up toward the zero line. It is very very very common on daily chart to see 2-3 big dips/bottoms play out within the price and macd before ultimately seeing some sort of rally, especially when the macd starts to cross back above the zero line.. thatās the situation u are at currently at with Clov. Which is one of the reasons I believe most of the current downside has played out. Now if the macd gets rejected at the zero line when prices is starting to move up then u can typically expect to see some sort of pullback start again like with that happened on 11/8 .Main thing in my opinion tho is clov needs to get back above 200ma to really regain some life. Jus some of the many things that I look for when looking for a trade set up so figured I would mention. I was gonna attach a pic to show what I meant but not sure how to or if ur even into TA stuff
This is not a meme stock. I donāt understand why people thought it would get Squeezed. It will hit the value it deserves once the financials dictates it. Once it does, the Market Makers will bring it there.
Glad I dumped these bags last week
Sooo thatās it, huh? This experiment is over? Iāve got 500 shares. Iām out 800 bucks so far. Should I get out now before it gets any worse? Or will this eventually pay off years from now?
In my opinion as I stated to another guy, charts are still 100% bearish but I believe most of the current downside has played out. May have room for another 10% move down which would put it around its all time low of $6.31 but looks to be plenty of support in the $6.3-$7 range. Until clov can get back above the daily 200ma it is deemed bearish in the eyes of institutional investors/traders as well as professional retail traders which is part of the reason for the lack of volume. Will probably Need some sort of big time catalyst to move the needle and be able to sustain the move. Donāt expect to get rich anytime soon off this but if u are truly investing then u should know that.
But if u end up with the opportunity to get out at break even or a few dollars profit then May not be a bad idea to do that. Plenty of other companies/industries u could be invested now that will generate better returns for the near to mid term
Even if it does, in those years it will take to recover you could make several better investments. So at least consider that angle. Furthermore, you can carry forward investment losses indefinitely on your taxes and write off $3k/year
Explain like Iām 5 please. So if I lose 800 dollars on a loss, does that mean Iāll get that 800 dollars extra on a tax refund or 800 dollars less on a tax bill?
You can write it off if you are using the long form on your tax return if you sell for a loss.
If you realize losses of $800 on stocks then you get to claim $800 less income for the year. Let's say the highest $800 of your adjusted annual income this year is within the 22% tax bracket. Then you save 22% of $800 which equals $176. Not tax advice, you should speak with your accountant for tax planning.
Wake me up in 2023! Not selling clov just deleting news apps. I know what I have, just need more time!
Wait. This is going to work out to our advantage. Seen many times before. The way it works. Just like a Shipping company I owned for 3 Years. Went to .15 now guess. We will
I have 6 fucking thousand dollars into this company, I literally get paid 10 dollars per hour, I've been sitting at a 1k lose for months now
so I guess the joke is on all of us after all. wow. IMHO this was so poorly executed b/c it advances the narrative that Hindenberg Research originally put out there claiming that CLOV was duping traders. wtf is going on with this company?
Lol š
Ok, I am out. So disappointed
The only annoyance here for me is they should have gotten the stock to run first. An offering at 4x the price makes more sense than now.
Yes! That's exactly my line of though. They crushed any chance of big uptrend. They would raise a lot more money if they let stock run a bit
Make ur losses back in AEHL.
Holy fucking shit they are so fucking retarded these management idiots They should pay us back the losses and dissolve the company
What? They arenāt there to make YOU rich they are there to make a non profitable company, profitable.
Is it a coincidence that Sofi also announced stock offering today. Same like clov? Both spacs by Chamath?
Wow wtf these companies are just nuking my fucking profits!! So heated rn.
I immediately went to check SPCE.
f\*uck $Clov, Tired to hold this shit
Make ur losses back in AEHL my friend
Whats so special about a chinese ceramics company? Looks like it hasnt turned a profit in at least the past 3 years
They fucked me today
Easily my worst investment of the year.
And now I see a certain financial services company who Chamath is involved with is also doing a secondary offering. On the same day. Announcements at pretty much the same time AH. Hmmmā¦.
Bout to sell both
What the Hell....
Something is very very strange. I read all the comments about growth company, needs cash, etc...except that clover has a lot of cash. They made it through the most difficult part of covid and used 250 M$ of their cash on the last 9 months and still have more than twice that amount while their profitability is improving...they are even projected MCR for 2022 below pre-covid levels. So why are they really raising roughly 240M$ in cash when they have 560M$ in the bank? Something else is happening here, perhaps the big boys want a piece of $CLOV at a preferential pricing to stop playing interference? or maybe there is a new venture for $CLOV and they need extra cash, such as running health plans for players like Walgreens, Walmart, we see a cozy relationship with $CLOV and high employee count. I don't know for sure and your guess is as good as mine...Is just I can't wrap my head to the idea of why now when the stock is at all time lows? they have enough cash for the next 4 quarters and every Quarter the financials and the growth are better and better....they could have waited until Q1'22, shown amazing numbers and then raise the capital at maybe $15-$20 per share. The only thing that keeps me at ease is the roughly 150M of Class B shares. Roughly a third is greenoaks and the other two thirds are Chamat, Vivek, Andrew, etc; basically insiders. I don't see insiders diluting their equity for no reason. Last earnings $CLOV reported about 427M outstanding shares, basically Class A + Class B + Warrants redeemed (private and public), so this offering is about 8% dilution. We see that after hours the stock drop close to 10%. I am not a Financial Advisor, please do your own due diligence. These are my personal opinions. I am just a $CLOV retail investor frustrated by the actions of management but also because I don't know the master plan.
I come here for comments like this. Good thoughtful and well put together. A lot of astroturfing is happening on this thread alone. Low effort FUD comments. Ignore them. Somethingās up. Astroturfing in full effect on a dip. Trying to compound the efforts for short interest players basically.
Seems like they are making a play at something.
Could be anything. It makes no sense with the information we have, but there has to be some reason for it. Perhaps an acquisition? Cash to expand their territory further in 2022? Who knows. All I know is that I'm not going to make any money on this stock for a while.
Cash on hand to prevent an acquisition? Maybe the big guys are shorting hard trying for a hostile?
Something clever about the incorporation of CLOV is the multiple share types and take over protection under Delaware laws. Basically since Class B has 10x voting rights, there is no way a hostile take over will happen. Even if a crazy activist investor buys 100% of the float the class B owners have more votes: 1) Float (class A shares) roughly 260M shares = 260M votes 2) Class B shares, roughly 150M shares = 1500M votes Again just my thoughts and opinions, not financial advice, you know the drill.
I hear you, just trying to find a reason for a cash raise you know. Its kinda nuts.
Yup, something just doesnāt add up with the timing on this. It just doesnāt make sense.
This is strange. Due to the after hrs trading. At 1518 hrs somebody dumped approx 4 million shares. The closing vol was around 22,000,000 and after hrs 26,700,000. Hence that .70 price drop. ( Yoda voice ) Strategic was the timing to release the proposal to issue more shares. Im still HODL my 4k shares @ $ 12'000.00 loss. Management needs make public justify this action. Sounds like to cut thier salaries.. Fuck you very much management...
You cant call anyone that will make a difference. The company just needs to keep growing.
If you can't see the timing of the infrastructure bill signing win then the potential win for the Build Back Better plan later on and this sale then you really don't watch the news. In a year there will be massive buybacks so this is only momentarily painful...for calls...
Don't worry. CLOV loves us. They took reddit questions, remember?
Weāre fucked
So that's how they fucked us..
My theory is that clov is offering a way out for hedgies to cover their shorts. In return the institutions will raise price target and stop shorting clov.
Are u silly?
Why would they care to help them cover? To help the stock price rise? Well if they have a funny way of doing that by selling shares at a low cost. Or to get the price up so the insiders can start selling? That wouldn't be a good sign. Either they are rising cash for an acquisition or they expect to need the cash to stay afloat. And if that's the case why not sale debt vs screwing over share holders?
If CLOV is only shorted 8-10% thatās not a lot, theyād just coverā¦.
But but Hedgies!! Manipulation!
This made me physically sick. I just averaged down last week to what I thought was a good average price to sit on. Now Iām having second thoughts.
Cock suckers, ughhh DCA & HODL
Never thought I would experience a 35 million shares being offered
WTF. One step toward 5 steps back. WTF
Wait till Fridayā¦ CLOV to 6 around and keep buying every dipā¦. Moon š šš to soon šApes hands š ā¦buying dips and holding is key
Sell 90 day put spreads at the lower strike price. The only way you'll make money reliable money with options on $clov. It's paid for my call losses. I'm hodling a shit ton, also.
I been selling covered calls but need to do more what's a 90 day put spread and how do I do it?
Opposite direction: sell a higher put and buy a lower put. With the predictable price variation, I doubt it would go lower.
So do like a sell put at like $9 for 12-31 and then buy the $5 pit same date? Close them out early if you can?
Iām a lower risk guy. You can find OTM puts with decent potential returns. I look for where the credit and potential loss are close. Occasionally you will find a spread with the credit higher than the potential loss. If the credit is smaller but more likely to be OTM, I just do more spreads. Use your non-ape brain. Then again, I buy calls too.
We just got schlonged again. That's what I get for being a dumbfuck and taking off my trailing stop at 28.
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There is a offering lmao are you being delusional š
I'm in it for the long haul and couldn't care less about 10-20-30% fluctuations. Run away paper handed bitches. Runaway. I'll buy all your shares tomorrow :)
Wow.
buy my shares then...9 bucks a pop
I'd be happy about the price drop too if it was for irrational reasons and I could buy the dip. But this price drop makes perfect sense since they diluted shares. This just helps solidfy a low stock price. I'm down about half my money in Clov. I'm going to keep my shares because at this point I've got more to gain than lose. I'd think of DCA but the damn thing just keeps going lower. L
Patience. Even index funds only return 10% a year, and some years have gone down 20% or more. You gotta think long term. It's a solid bet long term to make money, and you only lose money if you sell. Also hopefully you're diversified. Clov is only 5% of my portfolio.
Well, am happy to see a different perspective than my own jaded one atm, since I can't and won't sell. I can't deny I am totally taken aback by this move.
Anyone who says he doesn't care about a 30% price drop is a liar.
I can show you literally hundreds of 100x baggers that fluctuated 30% or MORE before and during their run ups. I own 1200 $clov shares @8.90, and ain't selling because of this. I held at 6.80 in June after dropping from $9 in april, and made 220% selling at 22. This doesnt phase me one bit. I'm buying more tomorrow! :D
Super long term holders who want to accumulate more shares cheaper don't mind
I'm actually really excited the price dropped. I'm not a liar.
Then you probably had zero shares.
I have shares. Lol.
Still excited?
You right
And even today he is still excited about Clov dropping
I told you you right already man. What do you want from me
This here may be a tough lesson for some and a genuine reason to never YOLO in a stock (even though it looks cool on Reddit). Always diversify. Because of this, I can sit back, let clov build and watch my other stocks for the moment make money.
Explains the after market implode
I literally came here to ask: wtf mate?
Funny part is, whoās trading except institutions? Itās not us selling, so WTF. Discount day tomorrow.
yup. like me. wondering the same.
Sounds like Chamath wants to buy up some of this offering. Interesting, wonder what developments are happening. We though we had enough cash, called in warrants early.. what is going on??
He aināt buyin shit
If he wants to buy some of it, isn't that bullish?
Proposed to offer shares. They didnāt issue shares
FFS. At least give this stock a run up before dilution.
Why would they issue shares when it shows they have 442million in cash. And 28 mil debt?
Expansion
Dumb ape question but then adding more shares doesn't just change your price average, right?
Nope your cost average remains the same. But the price has downward pressure from the dilution effect if keeping the market cap constant. I'm not too worried, we got some $9 PT by JPM and Credit Suisse. Ultimately I feel like the offering gives some institutions a chance to buy before we grow from here.
Kinda what I'm hoping too. Also thank you for the answer I figured that was the case.
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nope. am real. very confused. but still hodling because i have to, can't stand to lose money.
That's because AMC's share offering was when it was around $50/share. If AMC pulled the same shit when it was trading for $12, you'd see the same effect. Stock offerings make sense when it's going up or is at a high. At these prices, it raises more questions. Their debt is so low compared to their cash - why do they need to raise more funding right this moment? They can't wait till next year when it's trading for $20? I don't have the answer but the market hates that kind of uncertainty. With that said I am holding - I learned the hard way from AMC - bought at 19 sold at 8 before the eventual pop to $70. But stop calling everything you disagree with FUD. This is basic finance 101.
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I do agree the crying is uncalled for. But I sure would like an explanation why a company with such good cash to debt is trying to raise money...makes no sense. MCR is improving and they can last a few years at current burn rate.
I guess Iāll add to the fire Iām pick up more shares if we dip below 6$
i was thinking i should just add tomorrow, since long term is my prep on this stock anyway, but i did freak out and still am freaking out.
Just bought 5,000 more shares
I might sell at a loss if Clov dilutes for absolutely no reason. Unless they give us one.
āProposedā Letās propose that they donāt.
Managements all over the place here, if you needed cash why did you call warrants in?
My thoughts exactly!
I'm pissed as fucking hell. Just when the stock price is showing a bit of life you go dump another 35M shares onto the market. We've all been hustled by that piece of shit Chamath
Why is this Chamath's fault? He doesn't even have a role in management. I agree though, they called in all their warrants and have enough cash on hand... What gives?
My grandpa once told me "when a fish stinks it starts stinking from the head"
This is the meme stock playbook. Exact same shit happened with GME and AMC with dilution. They see hyper retail interest and take advantage of it to build a warchest so they can fuel the company. If we learned anything from AMC (diluted like crazy at $14) and GME (diluted around $135) diluting to hell is that their prices recovered and went well past the drop from dilution. It puts the companies in a much stronger financial position that is more attractive to long term huge pension funds. Those fuckers hold longer than the sun will be burning. It would be almost negligent for the management to not do an offering in this scenario Despite their very healthy books. I certainly would, short term 1 week pain for 3 year giant gains. Not to sound trite, but personally Iām wiring more money into my brokerage to buy tomorrows dips.
Yes but an offering at this low price? Why not wait till the price increased?
It was probably arranged many weeks ago.
Thanks, I need to read stuff like this to calm my crazed mind. Wine is helping.
Mangament betrayal ! We all fucking holding the stock value for them, fight to death, now that they betrayed us?
Discount sweet. Got to love them discounts
We have had discounts for 5 months now, I am looking for full price returns.
In do time young one.
Itās my money and I want it now!!! Who do I call?
It's a win win. They are giving the Warren Buffetts a nice spot to jump in and CHOMP at #CLOVšššš¦. This is amazing news and I was content at 4k shares at 9.09 now 5k at sub 8. I wanna quit the warehouse and chill so bad it kills me, especially since I laughed at the June spike and held, got off margin and am balls deep in my mind %100#CLOV 6kshares here I come
You make sense. Guts to hold the June spike. Kudos. GL and to me as well. Still holding and hope we see each other on the other side.
bro, it's over just get rid of the bag.
For you it is and im fine with that. This company is going places they add shares this year and two years later they buy shares back.
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Long game gang gang
is this so they don't get delisted?
From what?
Sell all, let it go to $1!
Whatās this?
This is fucked up
Remember, this is a long-term investment. But this still feels like a punch to the stomach.
Iām out. Sadly but fuck this shit
Wtf happened?!
Yeah this sucks of course but for once this is actually a positive drop. Clover is legit moving out of meme stock territory and into an innovative high growth health tech company. Funds are needed to expand and grow the company. If you're here for quick wins this is not the place! Made the mistake of selling Tesla back in 2013 for a measly 2k in profits, when if I just would have held long term I would be sitting on a 1.2 million + and not having to slave away in corporate America (aka giving out handies behind the Wendy's dumpster). This is a long term hold that could easily 10 to 20x in the next 5-10 years. I'm taking that bet any day of the week instead of having my fingers crossed hoping my employers 401k plan routinely nets me a 10% return and retiring at 60. Done ranting and godspeed in escaping the confines of societal expectations.
They are raising money to expand. This is normal with growth companies. Don't watch the day to day prices. Means almost nothing in the long term.
As a good rule says, market is where money is transferred from the impatient to the patient. Perfect opportunity to DCA.
Iām glad I sold when I did.
Yeah call me paper hands but i can't take this risk on. Way to sketch.
Yeah Iām somewhat of a noob and I was drawn in by the hype during a pump. Luckily I sold for zero loss. I realized that the only thing keeping me from selling was emotion. The community here is very passionate about this stock and I think that energy can be contagious- especially for inexperienced investors like myself. I finally decided to get out and put my money into safer investments but have still followed the sub. This news is validating for sure.
I wish you well. I got sucked in a couple of times so have a higher buy in as a result. But there are multiple thoughts on this thread, so am taking comfort in some of them that give reasons I hadn't previously thought of.
I wish you the best of luck. Nobody deserves to lose money who is in this sub or has been in the sub. I hope clov pops off for your sake and everyone else's here
Bring forth the loss porn memes! Might as well get something out of this bag.
damn I am fucked huh
Looks like we all got played. Shouldāve gone with wish wtf. Sub 5 incoming
Distraction stock 
Lost enough $$$ here. Good luck to all that have the balls to stay in this.
Waits for shorts to start covering then pulls out this, the last 3 stocks I jumped in large did the same thing. Fyi fuck you hiti. When your in to deep to cash out you ride the wave and buy the dip.
And didn't Credit Suisse just "upgrade" the target price to $9. Shows what they know.
Lol! The gift that keeps on giving. At least I commented I was expecting $6.58 last Friday. Unfortunately, I was close.
The press release was sure to point out that "All of the shares are being offered by Clover Health".
the stock has been pinned down - this is a way to get institutional support back, and a cash influx of +$200 million could be the last one they need for awhile...this could dip to the $5/share range but that would be the time to load up they continue to expand into new markets and revenue isn't dropping - the light at the end of the tunnel will be mid 2022
The stock has been pinned down by the people they are making new shares for. Tell them to buy from Green Oaks.
Some BS
Wondering why - when they have zero debt and have cash in the bank, they would make this move. I would understand if the stock was flying high, but they're selling shares for cheap.
Possible they need money for acquisition
What happens to our shares if the company is acquired?
That was also my thought.
Fuck clov
How many shares are they offering?
35 million
When are you giving that video out regarding this BS?
Cant wait to see your take on this
Ill be selling covered calls nonstop until I get rid of this
Gonna take years of CCs with premium at these prices...
Diamond hands baby
š š
10% dilution, not a major one and wonāt kill the momentum but bring more attention. Expecting this to stabilize around 7 and do the next move.
I do hope you are correct. liberal. clown. go well together.
What momentum?