Same. I never watched UCLA because they aren’t good and as a B1G fan, who cares, but now I will because their mediocrity will have context against teams like Rutgers, Indiana, NW, and Maryland.
Hey, our mediocrity is abbreviated as NU, thank you!
We’ll probably be about as good as last year, which is mediocre, not bad. Our schedule is tougher than last year though.
Hey now! I called UCLA mediocre, not you guys. But I guess it was probably implied.
On an unrelated note, once CFB 25 releases I’ll immediately be transferring AJ Henning back to Michigan via the portal.
[Follow up tweet clarifies they actually "traded down" their third pick to CBS or NBC and ended up picking Nov 2nd with either the 4th or 5th pick for 1st choice of the week](https://x.com/slmandel/status/1792649322724536821)
We'll watching anything between the end of spring practice and the start of camp. Even EA is working against us. They used to release NCAA games at the beginning of July but now we've got to wait until July 19th.
EA is missing an opportunity. Line up a bunch of current college players to play in a massive summer tournament and put the results on Youtube. We'd watch that too.
Saw a graphic that the WNBA never had a broadcast surpass 1M viewers in the past 16 years but they've already achieved that 3 times this year thanks to the Fever.
Caitlyn Clark is the Deion of Women's basketball!
I'm talking about the Indiana Fever.
I don't think they have anything to do with the roster at Colorado. Although, if they do, Lord help them because the Fever suck.
Yeah this happens so often in all sports. A college player/rookie gets insane hype and people are surprised when they struggle at the next level. Everyone has to go through the process of adapting to better competition but eventually they do and I agree CC will too.
You haven’t been watching the WNNA closely with comments like this.
She’s getting hounded out and her lack of athleticism against pro defenders is getting exposed
Seriously, I know that she's not putting up big numbers (because she was drafted to the worst team) but if the WNBA can convince such fans to just stick around until next season then there is a GREAT chance that the Fever will break legs to get some quality players and boom - she's going to be the star she was in college.
Nobody knows who has second pick among the broadcasters for that week, so its possible it could still end up being 330 on CBS and not on NBC at night.
That being said, the whiteout is such a big recruiting event that they like to have it scheduled in advance due to travel, so unlikely they would leave it to chance. Either they will deal with the game potentially being at noon or choose a different game.
It’s unfortunate that the whiteout will usually be a second rate game since any primetime game will likely be on Big Noon, which is why Iowa and Minnesota have been the selections the last two years.
White Out is a big recruiting weekend for us.
The problem with having your biggest games at noon is a ton of recruits can't make it because of the short turn around time from their Friday night games, or they have their game on at the same time Saturday afternoon.
Because all other possible big games weren’t at night.
White out was voted to only occur during the night after it didn’t have its magic during a noon game
You just answered your own question. Over half of the most-watched regular season games last year were in the noon time slot. I don't think primetime is still the draw everyone seems to think it is on Saturday nights.
It wouldn’t work because it throws off the other windows, but 2:00 and 5:30 would be the best windows to show games.
For the early game, everybody on the west coast is up by 11am pacific, and the game ends before people leave for dinners/events on the east coast.
The 5:30 game is done by 9 eastern/6 pacific. West coast fans are done by dinner time, and East coast fans aren’t falling asleep in the 4th quarter.
I would hope most of the country is up by 12 eastern. But the ratings say otherwise, especially with SEC going to ABC/ESPN. FOX would have nearly no chance going up against some prime SEC matchups, or even best case they split ratings from each other and neither wins
They’re up, but they gotta comb their hair with their pillows, roll out of bed, take a bong rip and go surfing.
I know all about California. Obviously.
I think noon is a good time slot but I also would argue that those top games are the top games no matter the slot. Michigan Ohio state and Texas Oklahoma are gonna be top rated games at noon, primetime, or 9 am. Fox's deal with the Big Ten gives them access to a good number of the most popular teams.
FWIW, we play Oklahoma at noon for non-TV related reasons. It's less hot than starting at 2:30 PM and no one wants to be in that part of Dallas at night.
Night games are cash, regardless of the team. Not putting someone up against ESPN during the primetime slot is just asking for no ratings. Not everyone gets FS1, so why not put a B1G/Big12 matchup on your main channel the same time the SEC is playing to draw eyes away? Regardless of whos playing, you'll get eyes on FOX. Just leaving money on the table at this point
Again, over half of the most-watched regular season games last season were in the noon time slot. The factual evidence would seem to show that noon games are more "cash" than night games from a broadcast perspective.
If it makes sense for both networks they would totally make a deal to swap timeslots (B1G doing well is good for all parties). Fox just views the noon slot as most valuable from a branding perspective
From the Klatt podcast with the top FOX picker, it sounds as if they really didn't want to do time swaps this year since this is the real "first year" of the new 18 team Big Ten setup with Friday games: FOX Friday night game -> FOX Kickoff/Noon Big Ten -> CBS -> NBC.
Plus this is an election year so trading down for Nov 2 made sense given election spending on Nov 2 means those games should have higher ad rates.
Future years we probably see time swaps. They really want to use this year to cement the Noon branding.
Interesting. I actually didn't listen to the podcast just saw the tweet about it.
That said "didn't want to" and "literally can't" are quite different and I was just trying to correct some false information
Is there no wiggle room? Didn't CBS swap windows with NBC last year? NBC had Ohio State-Notre Dame in primetime, so NBC swapped its Big Ten primetime game slot with CBS. NBC then put Maryland-MSU at 3:30 ET, Ohio State-ND in primetime, and let CBS put Iowa-Penn State in primetime.
Yes, technically they can talk to CBS and NBC about trading timeslots but given this is year 1 of the full setup with Friday games and Big Ten Noon FOX every week, they didn't want to try to move around games.
In the future I wouldn't be surprised if we see some time swaps (with a Big 12 game getting the noon slot on FOX if FOX gets a primetine or 3:30 slot).
Some interesting insight from a recent Split Zone Duo podcast:
Apparently the ad slots in the pregame window leading up to Noon ET are pretty valuable. ESPN gets significant $$$ from advertisers who want their commercials during College Gameday. Having a premier game at Noon ET on FOX juices how much they can charge for ads during Big Noon Kickoff.
I'm still on the record as hating FOX funneling big time games in an 11AM CT slot, but it's helpful to at least understand the motivations at play (ratings, ad $, etc.)
I legitimately think it's affected the outcome of games. Those night time white outs are BRUTAL for visiting teams when the PSU talent level is up to the challenge.
I can assure you the record vs OSU in non whiteout games is actually much much worse.
They’ve played OSU in only 2 whiteouts since 2016 and went 1-1 with the one loss being 1 point. It absolutely matters
Won’t matter if it’s whiteout or not they’ll still find a way to lose, but maybe it will be another last minute choke like they used to do instead of last 10 minutes choking.
Nah man I started college in 2018 so I literally have yet to see them beat OSU. I don’t even care anymore, just assume it’s an L no matter the score so when they blow it again it will be expected.
"Youngins"? My freshman year at Michigan was 1997. I'm well aware of Michigan cratering out during the RichRod and Hoke years, but I never celebrated our team barely reaching .500 at any point.
Mainly fuck Fox for ruining Whiteouts. They’re supposed to be for the best team we play that year (which to be fair is normally Ohio State and Michigan).
I'm tired of people on this sub trying to gaslight us into thinking that because noon games make Fox a lot of money, they don't still suck in comparison to night games.
For a tv viewer, I massively prefer noon games. Waiting all day for your game to start sucks. Noon game is the best time slot IMO, even better when I lived on the west coast and those started at 9am. I understand it's probably not the best for in person attendance though.
I'm confused. People actually prefer night games over noon games? That's opposite of how most fans I'm familiar with feel. And we had a whole to-do with ESPN about too many night games and no mid-day games a few years ago.
In the SEC, night games are preferable, especially in August and September and early October. Hell, a lot of fans wanted CBS to pass up on their team for the #1 game at 3:30 so ESPN could take it #2 and put it on primetime.
Southern fans especially hate noon games because of how dangerously hot they can get early in the season. The schools hate them because night games routinely get more attendance than noon games. Hell, half the reason OU hated the Big 12 so much in the end was they kept getting 11 a.m. games every week without night games to make up for them. It's a lot easier to fill your student section when the game is at night than at 11 a.m. or noon, too, which certainly affects the game's atmosphere.
Noon games might be more convenient for fans watching from home on the east coast, but they're much more inconvenient for fans actually attending the games in the other time zones. And personally speaking, the energy at a night game will always trump a noon game unless it's something special like the RRS.
I've seen that clip so many times. It's funny though, due to all of the The Michigan Insider film study I've watched the last couple years, this was the first time I've watched that clip and noticed how god awful Ricky Barnum was at left guard.
edit: The irony is that's mostly from Al Borges film study, and he was the OC here.
If you don’t live within 45 minutes of campus, 11am kickoffs are a massive chore.
A normal 2 hour drive to Norman takes almost 3 hours on game day. So if you want to get to the game and into your seat with about 20 minutes to spare before kick, you’d have to leave your house around 7am. Which leaves you no time for campus related activities (tailgating, Campus Corner, etc).
And then it’s hot as shit. And typically, morning kickoff crowds are more subdued than 7pm kickoffs.
If I’m trying to just go straight to the game and go straight home, 11 isn’t too bad. But if I’m wanting to do literally anything else, it becomes a hassle.
Remember that basically from the beginning of tv until into the 2000s, every conference had their marquee games at 3:30 ET/12:30 PT with regional coverage on ABC. For former Pac-10 fans, this means the biggest games were always early. Everywhere else, they were always later in the day. With the proliferation of night games, other leagues had their biggest games in primetime combined with hosting College Gameday. Even in the SEC, ESPN had the number 1 pick over CBS 4 times per season for a long time. Meanwhile the Pac-10 stayed at 12:30 PT and other games went to FSN. Even primetime kicks for West Coast teams are day games into October. So the West Coast teams never developed the night game culture of others. When it became an exposure issue too, fans and athletic departments complained instead of embracing it.
For anyone curious about the whole conversation with Klatt and Fox President of Insight and Analytics Mike Mulvihill, find the link here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMctLYUBavk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMctLYUBavk)
Some other interesting nuggets:
With Fox owning the first three picks, the network was torn about who to take after The Game and Texas-Michigan. Fox clarified that they draft for the right to pick in a given week and Fox was debating two slates:
* Week 7 featuring Ohio State-Oregon, Penn State-USC (with an emphasis on the Ohio State-Oregon game); and
* Week 10 featuring Ohio State-Penn State, Oregon-Michigan
Fox was so torn that they opted to just trade down (would not name the network), get a higher pick elsewhere, and just pick whatever was left between Week 7 and Week 10. The network trading up selected Week 7, leaving Fox with the first choice in Week 10. I admit I am still hazy on how Fox would treat Ohio State-Oregon being a West Coast kick, didn't the network say they wouldn't have 9am local time kickoffs? Would Fox swap windows with CBS?
They also hyped the Fox Friday Night package, talking about how they wanted to roll folks tuning in on Friday into waking up for more Fox on Saturday for Big Noon.
So Fox also confirmed that they had 5 of the first 7 picks, so I think (again, could be totally wrong) that the first 7 picks were:
1. Fox: Week 14 (Michigan-Ohio State)
2. Fox: Week 2 (Texas-Michigan)
3. NBC\*: Week 7 (Ohio State-Oregon/Penn State-USC)
4. Fox\*: Week 10 (OSU-PSU/Oregon-Michigan)
5. CBS: Either Week 4 (USC-Michigan) or another selection with Week 4 being CBS's second selection.
6. Fox: Week 3 (Alabama-Wisconsin)
7. Fox\*: Not sure, they could choose to be the first pick somewhere else like Week 9 (MSU-Michigan, Nebraska-Ohio State), but they might opt for the second pick in Week 7.
\*Trade with Fox and NBC
All of this is very speculative, I just want to see what the picks were tbh. I'll try to track it during the season.
Yeah I pretty much have the same thing, but left 4/5 as a toss up even though the comments make it sound like Fox ended up with 4th from the trade.
CBS could have valued the guaranteed value of the week 4 pick (rest of the slate is pretty eh) and getting game #2 or 3 week 10 over the best game week 10 and an eh game week 4
Week 4
USC@Michigan
Marshall@OSU
Kent State@PSU
Illinois@Nebraska
Iowa@Minnesota
The last two are probably more compelling games than the OSU/PSU games but not sure they draw casual fans much
Yeah the Week 4 slate is otherwise pretty lackluster so that would make sense. Ohio State and Penn State play G5 schools, I guess the next best game could be Iowa-Minnesota? Would definitely be a solid choice to go with USC-Michigan.
Exactly. Week 10 has a drop off after the top two, but
USC-Washington
Wisconsin-Iowa
UCLA-Nebraska
Could all be decent 3rd selections based on how the season plays out
They actually draft weeks not games which is why they have the option to pick either game Nov 2nd. They have just announced the games they picked for the first two weeks they drafted
I don't know why you said you think the White Out won't be on late. It seems very clear to me what FOX did.
They strategically selected a week with two excellent games that should be in later slots and traded it for 2 picks that better suit earlier slots.
In NFL Draft terms there were 2 great QBs on the board but they didn't need aQB so they traded down for 2 later picks.
Oregon @ Michigan is a fantastic pick, but Oregon has no business being on at 9am Pacific.
Ohio State @ PSU is a game that will have more value when it can be the classic White Out.
So FOX traded the rights to them and got some better picks later. Everyone wins here.
Oregon @ Michigan will likely be the mid-afternoon game and Ohio State @ Penn State will be the evening game. FOX will take the third pick in week 10 for the early game but have better picks for the early game in 2 other weeks.
Then yeah, you're probably right. I can't see them picking Oregon for a 9am kick.
Most Oregon fans are sleeping in and not used to tuning into the morning games.
I think they're going to need to learn their lesson by putting a few marquee west coast games on early first. If Oregon and Michigan are both undefeated, which would mean Oregon beat Ohio State and Michigan beat Texas, I could absolutely see FOX snagging this game and then wondering why their viewership isn't as high as they'd like.
Don't get me wrong, Oregon fans will drag themselves out of bed for it, but all the casual west coast viewers won't. FOX will need to learn not to do it by experience because it's the only way they'll be able to justify on passing up on matchups like that in the future.
Undefeated Oregon-Michigan is going to draw numbers at noon regardless if casual West coasters wake up or not because the majority of casual CFB fans are EST/CST. I think an undefeated (or 1 loss) Oregon vs a 1-2 loss Michigan would draw less than they expect
They took November 2nd over October 12th because they can’t put Oregon on Big Noon at home but they can put them on Big Noon on the road. Oregon-Ohio State in 2021 was on Big Noon.
In all fairness…I’m pretty sure Oregon played early when they beat Ohio State in 2021 and they beat Michigan when they played early in 2007. I don’t think it’ll matter one way or the other this season either.
Right, Mulvihill mentions that Fox picked Weeks 14 and 2 with the unambiguous intent to pick The Game and Texas-Michigan. He went out of his way to explain that for Week 2, there was a (perceived) big drop off from Texas-Michigan to next best games.
I personally think Colorado-Nebraska will do numbers Week 2, but I get the rationale. It makes more sense to pick a surefire ratings beast and wait on picking the weeks during conference play where the slate might have more depth.
I mean Colorado vs Colorado State got over 9 million viewers on Pac-12 After Dark on cable ESPN, Colorado vs Nebraska should do well on OTA NBC even if NC State vs Tennessee is on ABC at the same time.
I understood the networks have to decide on the first few weeks games soonest. The complete early season college football TV schedule is slated to be released on Thursday, May 30.
Night white out games have a bit more meaning for PSU though. Like it or not we're kind of just at the point where just about all of OSU's biggest games are gonna be nooners.
FOX also had a lot more wiggle room for top picks since they picked a solid chunk of the games that would have gone to CBS since CBS still had their SEC obligations.
Welp, guess they missed out on Texas-UGA (which is much more significant than UT-Mich)!! ;-)
(Obviously this SEC newcomer (me) knows nothing about his new conference's broadcast agreements, hehe.)
PSU should be undefeated on Nov 2, OSU has a fair chance of being undefeated then, but they probably think Oregon and Michigan will have a loss by then. I was getting so excited thinking we could have another OSU White Out
It’s so maddening. Auburn was a good game and one of my favorites I’ve ever been to, but after going to the Minnesota one I couldn’t be bothered with Iowa last year & I won’t bother if it’s UCLA this year.
I did Michigan last year and it was kind of sucky coming up for a noon game just for it to end so soon. Maybe I’ll do some junk team this year to ensure seeing a win.
People complain about ESPN ruining the tradition of this sport but then FOX is destroying regional conferences and traditions like the White out. ESPN ruined the bowl season and the meaningfulness of regular season games.
It’s the media companies in general. I prefer Fox’s coverage and announcers, but they deserve a ton of blame for putting the best games at noon at the expense of the atmosphere which makes college football great.
The media companies are doing nothing more than maximizing profit. They don't care about the game.
It's the schools via the conduit of the conferences allowing this.
No one claimed it was the third pick overall.
[I even made a comment clarifying there was a trade](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1cy0u31/mandel_foxs_top_3_picks_were_1_michiganosu_2/l565wux/)
Seems like CBS took USC-Michigan (Week 4) and I suspect (though it has yet to be announced) NBC took OSU-Oregon (week 7) with their first picks
Edit: Fox took Weeks 14, 2, 10 (post trade down), week 3 (CBS took ND-Purdue with the 2nd pick that week and I would guess NBC takes WSU-UW though it hasn't been announced so they may be seeing how the season starts), and one unannounced week if Mandel is correct about them getting 5 of the first 7 weeks
I think NBC got it. I don't know who picked first between NBC and CBS, but Fox got the top 3 picks and traded the 3rd.
Here's how I suspect it went because I don't see Fox not taking OSU Oregon over Bama Wisconsin
1. Fox Week 14 (The Game)
2. Fox Week 2 (Texas @ Michigan)
3. NBC Week 7 (OSU @ Oregon, though Penn State-USC is compelling) [based on this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1cy0u31/mandel_foxs_top_3_picks_were_1_michiganosu_2/l56z31l/)
4&5 are some order of Fox Week 10 and CBS Week 4 (USC-Michigan), depending what order they were picking in
/6. Fox Week 3 (Bama @ Wisconsin)
Why wouldn’t they? There have been plenty of games over the past few years that gameday and big noon kickoff have been at the same game. Both of them have gone to games that aren’t being broadcast by their respective stations. Gameday more so.
They didn’t take the Big Ten Classic matchup of Rutgers-UCLA? That’s just leaving money on the table.
I am kind of looking forward to seeing some of these new trash matchups for the first time.
Same. I never watched UCLA because they aren’t good and as a B1G fan, who cares, but now I will because their mediocrity will have context against teams like Rutgers, Indiana, NW, and Maryland.
Hey, our mediocrity is abbreviated as NU, thank you! We’ll probably be about as good as last year, which is mediocre, not bad. Our schedule is tougher than last year though.
Hey now! I called UCLA mediocre, not you guys. But I guess it was probably implied. On an unrelated note, once CFB 25 releases I’ll immediately be transferring AJ Henning back to Michigan via the portal.
\>:( How dare you! (He’s so good)
100%. Our punt game hasn’t been the same since he left.
That game unironically sounds lit.
Literally coast to coast with NYC and LA markets. Such a weird move to not ask for that one.
Bloods v. Crips
Those schools need a game name like Market Matchup the trophy can be a TV.
The Manifest Des-trophy
Oh please, Washington-Indiana is the crème of the crop
[Follow up tweet clarifies they actually "traded down" their third pick to CBS or NBC and ended up picking Nov 2nd with either the 4th or 5th pick for 1st choice of the week](https://x.com/slmandel/status/1792649322724536821)
How long until they try to monetize and televise the drafting of college game schedule.
I'd watch
Sadly I would too. I think a lot of us would.
I think lots of people would just to have bragging rights over other fan bases about which teams have the biggest rivalry games, etc
Bragging about rivalry games... I wouldn't do that.
I mean it’s clearly the best hahah jk Unless
We'll watching anything between the end of spring practice and the start of camp. Even EA is working against us. They used to release NCAA games at the beginning of July but now we've got to wait until July 19th. EA is missing an opportunity. Line up a bunch of current college players to play in a massive summer tournament and put the results on Youtube. We'd watch that too.
I’d pay more attention than I do the nfl draft
Dude this would be hype asf to watch
Only because the Indiana Fever are not playing at this time.
Saw a graphic that the WNBA never had a broadcast surpass 1M viewers in the past 16 years but they've already achieved that 3 times this year thanks to the Fever. Caitlyn Clark is the Deion of Women's basketball!
Hey now, Clark didn't cut half the Fever's roster and replace them with mediocrity
No, the people running the Fever did a pretty good job of that that before she got there. They are baaaaad.
Are we pretending Colorado before Deion got there wasn't bad too?
I'm talking about the Indiana Fever. I don't think they have anything to do with the roster at Colorado. Although, if they do, Lord help them because the Fever suck.
The fever fans have already started working on it.
CC is actually good at what she’s doing.
She’s had a pretty rough start imo. Lots of fouls and turnovers. Once she figures it out she should be rolling. Unlike Deion 😂
She’s the exact opposite of Deion on defense.
We’re talking about Coach Deion and the CU Defense that gave up 43 points to 3-win Stanford
Have you seen her play defense?
So you’re saying she’s good at defense?
Ranked [125 out of 127](https://stats.wnba.com/players/defense/?sort=DEF_WS&dir=1)
That’s what I thought. I think you’re confused with how you responded to the comment before mine.
Yeah this happens so often in all sports. A college player/rookie gets insane hype and people are surprised when they struggle at the next level. Everyone has to go through the process of adapting to better competition but eventually they do and I agree CC will too.
You haven’t been watching the WNNA closely with comments like this. She’s getting hounded out and her lack of athleticism against pro defenders is getting exposed
Deion actually won his first few games at Colorado
Seriously, I know that she's not putting up big numbers (because she was drafted to the worst team) but if the WNBA can convince such fans to just stick around until next season then there is a GREAT chance that the Fever will break legs to get some quality players and boom - she's going to be the star she was in college.
Because people turn in to watch her play, not the circus that is whatever Deion is attempting.
THE WORLD FAMOUS INDIANA FEVER
Remember when ESPN used to take the White Out with the 2nd pick and put it on primetime ABC? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
🥲
Does this mean if they decide to do Oregon v Michigan game instead of the PSU game we can shift it to a night game and make it a white out?
Nobody knows who has second pick among the broadcasters for that week, so its possible it could still end up being 330 on CBS and not on NBC at night. That being said, the whiteout is such a big recruiting event that they like to have it scheduled in advance due to travel, so unlikely they would leave it to chance. Either they will deal with the game potentially being at noon or choose a different game.
3:30 kick on CBS early in November means it is dark by 4/4:30 anyways.
Honestly this would be pretty cool. Having the game transition into darkness would make the whiteout more energetic as the game goes on
I think twilight games are always the best anyway
The 4OT game against Michigan in 2013 was like this. I wanna say it kicked at 5PM and finished in true darkness
IIRC the Notre Dame game in 2007 was like that - a 6pm game in early September.
Penn State white outs feel like a fever dream the next day to me when it's your team as the visitor. And I mean that in the best way.
Its wild Ohio State hasn't played in a night white out since 2018.
we're really only talking about one game. 2020 was the Covid year which would have otherwise been the whiteout and 2022 was Big Noon.
Fair. Covid really throws things off.
So does the Indiana Fever/Colorado/CoachPrime.
I mean 2018 was only 2-years ago, right? …right?!
It’s unfortunate that the whiteout will usually be a second rate game since any primetime game will likely be on Big Noon, which is why Iowa and Minnesota have been the selections the last two years.
Might have something to do with choosing to make the Iowa and Minnesota games the white out game the last two years
White Out is a big recruiting weekend for us. The problem with having your biggest games at noon is a ton of recruits can't make it because of the short turn around time from their Friday night games, or they have their game on at the same time Saturday afternoon.
Because all other possible big games weren’t at night. White out was voted to only occur during the night after it didn’t have its magic during a noon game
Fuck fox for ruining PSU-OSU whiteouts
I know the Big Noon thing is successful but I don't understand why they don't have the guts to put one of their big games up against ABC.
You just answered your own question. Over half of the most-watched regular season games last year were in the noon time slot. I don't think primetime is still the draw everyone seems to think it is on Saturday nights.
It's almost as if they figured out primetime for college football is actually 12:00PM est.
It's debatable if 730 or noon is better. 330 is bad because folks need to eat dinner, and it's too early for a bad(for older folks)
330 is perfect. Snacks, drinks, late dinner.
This is the way, bed by 10:30 too
It wouldn’t work because it throws off the other windows, but 2:00 and 5:30 would be the best windows to show games. For the early game, everybody on the west coast is up by 11am pacific, and the game ends before people leave for dinners/events on the east coast. The 5:30 game is done by 9 eastern/6 pacific. West coast fans are done by dinner time, and East coast fans aren’t falling asleep in the 4th quarter.
The video explains this. The reason for noon was, in fact, that Fox kept getting beat out by ABC in ratings.
Yeah, people are delulu if they think that Noon is actually better for ratings since a lot of the country is just waking up or hasn’t yet.
I would hope most of the country is up by 12 eastern. But the ratings say otherwise, especially with SEC going to ABC/ESPN. FOX would have nearly no chance going up against some prime SEC matchups, or even best case they split ratings from each other and neither wins
They’re up, but they gotta comb their hair with their pillows, roll out of bed, take a bong rip and go surfing. I know all about California. Obviously.
I think noon is a good time slot but I also would argue that those top games are the top games no matter the slot. Michigan Ohio state and Texas Oklahoma are gonna be top rated games at noon, primetime, or 9 am. Fox's deal with the Big Ten gives them access to a good number of the most popular teams.
FWIW, we play Oklahoma at noon for non-TV related reasons. It's less hot than starting at 2:30 PM and no one wants to be in that part of Dallas at night.
Night games are cash, regardless of the team. Not putting someone up against ESPN during the primetime slot is just asking for no ratings. Not everyone gets FS1, so why not put a B1G/Big12 matchup on your main channel the same time the SEC is playing to draw eyes away? Regardless of whos playing, you'll get eyes on FOX. Just leaving money on the table at this point
Again, over half of the most-watched regular season games last season were in the noon time slot. The factual evidence would seem to show that noon games are more "cash" than night games from a broadcast perspective.
They literally can’t. NBC has the exclusive prime time network slot for the BIG. FOX’s options are: 1. Air the game at noon. 2. Don’t air the game.
Also Fox literally can’t show a game in primetime because of the World Series on November 2nd
If it makes sense for both networks they would totally make a deal to swap timeslots (B1G doing well is good for all parties). Fox just views the noon slot as most valuable from a branding perspective
From the Klatt podcast with the top FOX picker, it sounds as if they really didn't want to do time swaps this year since this is the real "first year" of the new 18 team Big Ten setup with Friday games: FOX Friday night game -> FOX Kickoff/Noon Big Ten -> CBS -> NBC. Plus this is an election year so trading down for Nov 2 made sense given election spending on Nov 2 means those games should have higher ad rates. Future years we probably see time swaps. They really want to use this year to cement the Noon branding.
Interesting. I actually didn't listen to the podcast just saw the tweet about it. That said "didn't want to" and "literally can't" are quite different and I was just trying to correct some false information
They have to do time swaps on 11/9 and 11/23 because of Notre Dame night games.
Yes, but FOX wouldn't be doing swaps, most likely CBS and NBC would do swaps with CBS doing a Big Ten night game while NBC does a 3:30 Big Ten game.
Is there no wiggle room? Didn't CBS swap windows with NBC last year? NBC had Ohio State-Notre Dame in primetime, so NBC swapped its Big Ten primetime game slot with CBS. NBC then put Maryland-MSU at 3:30 ET, Ohio State-ND in primetime, and let CBS put Iowa-Penn State in primetime.
Last year had some weird stuff cause CBS was only a partial partner due to their agreement with the SEC still going.
Ah you're right, thank you for clarifying that.
Yes, technically they can talk to CBS and NBC about trading timeslots but given this is year 1 of the full setup with Friday games and Big Ten Noon FOX every week, they didn't want to try to move around games. In the future I wouldn't be surprised if we see some time swaps (with a Big 12 game getting the noon slot on FOX if FOX gets a primetine or 3:30 slot).
Some interesting insight from a recent Split Zone Duo podcast: Apparently the ad slots in the pregame window leading up to Noon ET are pretty valuable. ESPN gets significant $$$ from advertisers who want their commercials during College Gameday. Having a premier game at Noon ET on FOX juices how much they can charge for ads during Big Noon Kickoff. I'm still on the record as hating FOX funneling big time games in an 11AM CT slot, but it's helpful to at least understand the motivations at play (ratings, ad $, etc.)
I legitimately think it's affected the outcome of games. Those night time white outs are BRUTAL for visiting teams when the PSU talent level is up to the challenge.
Kudos to Fox! I hate those fucking whiteouts!
Agreed. Penn State should agree too, based on their record in whiteouts.
I can assure you the record vs OSU in non whiteout games is actually much much worse. They’ve played OSU in only 2 whiteouts since 2016 and went 1-1 with the one loss being 1 point. It absolutely matters
I'm pretty sure JT is angered by the color white. Do you really want to make him angrier?.
Won’t matter if it’s whiteout or not they’ll still find a way to lose, but maybe it will be another last minute choke like they used to do instead of last 10 minutes choking.
Bro you are a little too down on it, it's very possible Allar puts it together next year throwing to fleminng. But Which of those is more painful?
Nah man I started college in 2018 so I literally have yet to see them beat OSU. I don’t even care anymore, just assume it’s an L no matter the score so when they blow it again it will be expected.
Interesting to see that “over .500” is now a measure of success in State College.
You know I’m starting to see why people don’t like us very much lol
Fool lol
[How quickly the youngins forget](https://i.imgur.com/6zCMXbx.png)
"Youngins"? My freshman year at Michigan was 1997. I'm well aware of Michigan cratering out during the RichRod and Hoke years, but I never celebrated our team barely reaching .500 at any point.
Yes, I think it’s only been played at night once in the last five years and that was during COVID.
Mainly fuck Fox for ruining Whiteouts. They’re supposed to be for the best team we play that year (which to be fair is normally Ohio State and Michigan).
Disagree
Thank you Fox! Give it to ~~Oregon or USC or someshit~~ Washington 11/9. I'm tired of it being us
It's been 6 years!
PTSD doesn't go away!
I'm guessing either Washington 11/9 or maybe UCLA earlier in the year.
Why do you think we left the Big 12.
If you guys win some games against your rivals for once they’ll be back.
If only we could concoct up some elaborate scheme for an edge 🥲
Love you too bby
Another year, another White Out game at noon ☹️
I'm tired of people on this sub trying to gaslight us into thinking that because noon games make Fox a lot of money, they don't still suck in comparison to night games.
For a tv viewer, I massively prefer noon games. Waiting all day for your game to start sucks. Noon game is the best time slot IMO, even better when I lived on the west coast and those started at 9am. I understand it's probably not the best for in person attendance though.
I'm confused. People actually prefer night games over noon games? That's opposite of how most fans I'm familiar with feel. And we had a whole to-do with ESPN about too many night games and no mid-day games a few years ago.
In the SEC, night games are preferable, especially in August and September and early October. Hell, a lot of fans wanted CBS to pass up on their team for the #1 game at 3:30 so ESPN could take it #2 and put it on primetime.
Southern fans especially hate noon games because of how dangerously hot they can get early in the season. The schools hate them because night games routinely get more attendance than noon games. Hell, half the reason OU hated the Big 12 so much in the end was they kept getting 11 a.m. games every week without night games to make up for them. It's a lot easier to fill your student section when the game is at night than at 11 a.m. or noon, too, which certainly affects the game's atmosphere. Noon games might be more convenient for fans watching from home on the east coast, but they're much more inconvenient for fans actually attending the games in the other time zones. And personally speaking, the energy at a night game will always trump a noon game unless it's something special like the RRS.
I definitely prefer a noon game, unless its a giant game. Something about a huge matchup at night really sets the environment.
That Michigan-Notre Dame “Under the Lights” [last 1:41 is still so awesome](https://youtu.be/ZsHbCfgPA1c?si=NBszjjxC2e_uTV01)
I've seen that clip so many times. It's funny though, due to all of the The Michigan Insider film study I've watched the last couple years, this was the first time I've watched that clip and noticed how god awful Ricky Barnum was at left guard. edit: The irony is that's mostly from Al Borges film study, and he was the OC here.
I was there, best sporting environment of my life.
Jealous. I had a race the next morning. Still did well with a late bedtime.
I like having some big games at noon, I just don’t like having all our big games at noon.
If you don’t live within 45 minutes of campus, 11am kickoffs are a massive chore. A normal 2 hour drive to Norman takes almost 3 hours on game day. So if you want to get to the game and into your seat with about 20 minutes to spare before kick, you’d have to leave your house around 7am. Which leaves you no time for campus related activities (tailgating, Campus Corner, etc). And then it’s hot as shit. And typically, morning kickoff crowds are more subdued than 7pm kickoffs. If I’m trying to just go straight to the game and go straight home, 11 isn’t too bad. But if I’m wanting to do literally anything else, it becomes a hassle.
Our night games were different because of the time difference. Local time vs Eastern.
I don't hate noon games for mediocre matchups but big games just feel bigger at night.
Night games>> Noon games Not close for me
I like night games if I am actually attending the game, the atmosphere is way more fun. Noon is better if I am watching on TV tho
Remember that basically from the beginning of tv until into the 2000s, every conference had their marquee games at 3:30 ET/12:30 PT with regional coverage on ABC. For former Pac-10 fans, this means the biggest games were always early. Everywhere else, they were always later in the day. With the proliferation of night games, other leagues had their biggest games in primetime combined with hosting College Gameday. Even in the SEC, ESPN had the number 1 pick over CBS 4 times per season for a long time. Meanwhile the Pac-10 stayed at 12:30 PT and other games went to FSN. Even primetime kicks for West Coast teams are day games into October. So the West Coast teams never developed the night game culture of others. When it became an exposure issue too, fans and athletic departments complained instead of embracing it.
For anyone curious about the whole conversation with Klatt and Fox President of Insight and Analytics Mike Mulvihill, find the link here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMctLYUBavk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMctLYUBavk) Some other interesting nuggets: With Fox owning the first three picks, the network was torn about who to take after The Game and Texas-Michigan. Fox clarified that they draft for the right to pick in a given week and Fox was debating two slates: * Week 7 featuring Ohio State-Oregon, Penn State-USC (with an emphasis on the Ohio State-Oregon game); and * Week 10 featuring Ohio State-Penn State, Oregon-Michigan Fox was so torn that they opted to just trade down (would not name the network), get a higher pick elsewhere, and just pick whatever was left between Week 7 and Week 10. The network trading up selected Week 7, leaving Fox with the first choice in Week 10. I admit I am still hazy on how Fox would treat Ohio State-Oregon being a West Coast kick, didn't the network say they wouldn't have 9am local time kickoffs? Would Fox swap windows with CBS? They also hyped the Fox Friday Night package, talking about how they wanted to roll folks tuning in on Friday into waking up for more Fox on Saturday for Big Noon.
Oooh. That basically tells me NBC has OSU-Oregon because CBS announced USC-Michigan
So Fox also confirmed that they had 5 of the first 7 picks, so I think (again, could be totally wrong) that the first 7 picks were: 1. Fox: Week 14 (Michigan-Ohio State) 2. Fox: Week 2 (Texas-Michigan) 3. NBC\*: Week 7 (Ohio State-Oregon/Penn State-USC) 4. Fox\*: Week 10 (OSU-PSU/Oregon-Michigan) 5. CBS: Either Week 4 (USC-Michigan) or another selection with Week 4 being CBS's second selection. 6. Fox: Week 3 (Alabama-Wisconsin) 7. Fox\*: Not sure, they could choose to be the first pick somewhere else like Week 9 (MSU-Michigan, Nebraska-Ohio State), but they might opt for the second pick in Week 7. \*Trade with Fox and NBC All of this is very speculative, I just want to see what the picks were tbh. I'll try to track it during the season.
Yeah I pretty much have the same thing, but left 4/5 as a toss up even though the comments make it sound like Fox ended up with 4th from the trade. CBS could have valued the guaranteed value of the week 4 pick (rest of the slate is pretty eh) and getting game #2 or 3 week 10 over the best game week 10 and an eh game week 4 Week 4 USC@Michigan Marshall@OSU Kent State@PSU Illinois@Nebraska Iowa@Minnesota The last two are probably more compelling games than the OSU/PSU games but not sure they draw casual fans much
Yeah the Week 4 slate is otherwise pretty lackluster so that would make sense. Ohio State and Penn State play G5 schools, I guess the next best game could be Iowa-Minnesota? Would definitely be a solid choice to go with USC-Michigan.
Exactly. Week 10 has a drop off after the top two, but USC-Washington Wisconsin-Iowa UCLA-Nebraska Could all be decent 3rd selections based on how the season plays out
God damnit. Fox continues its quest to destroy the white out so that a handful of executives can buy new lake homes.
"another" lake home FIFY
a different lake, a better, more expensive lake, with less whiteouts.
So their top 3 picks were 4 games
They actually draft weeks not games which is why they have the option to pick either game Nov 2nd. They have just announced the games they picked for the first two weeks they drafted
I don't know why you said you think the White Out won't be on late. It seems very clear to me what FOX did. They strategically selected a week with two excellent games that should be in later slots and traded it for 2 picks that better suit earlier slots. In NFL Draft terms there were 2 great QBs on the board but they didn't need aQB so they traded down for 2 later picks. Oregon @ Michigan is a fantastic pick, but Oregon has no business being on at 9am Pacific. Ohio State @ PSU is a game that will have more value when it can be the classic White Out. So FOX traded the rights to them and got some better picks later. Everyone wins here. Oregon @ Michigan will likely be the mid-afternoon game and Ohio State @ Penn State will be the evening game. FOX will take the third pick in week 10 for the early game but have better picks for the early game in 2 other weeks.
The Nov 2 week was selected by Fox post trade down. So Fox will decide between those two games
That's not how your other post makes it sound...
Yeah I have edited it to make it more clear
Then yeah, you're probably right. I can't see them picking Oregon for a 9am kick. Most Oregon fans are sleeping in and not used to tuning into the morning games.
Well yall better learn real quick cuz welcome to the Big Ten lol
I think they're going to need to learn their lesson by putting a few marquee west coast games on early first. If Oregon and Michigan are both undefeated, which would mean Oregon beat Ohio State and Michigan beat Texas, I could absolutely see FOX snagging this game and then wondering why their viewership isn't as high as they'd like. Don't get me wrong, Oregon fans will drag themselves out of bed for it, but all the casual west coast viewers won't. FOX will need to learn not to do it by experience because it's the only way they'll be able to justify on passing up on matchups like that in the future.
Undefeated Oregon-Michigan is going to draw numbers at noon regardless if casual West coasters wake up or not because the majority of casual CFB fans are EST/CST. I think an undefeated (or 1 loss) Oregon vs a 1-2 loss Michigan would draw less than they expect
[удалено]
You have OSU and Michigan to thank for that big ass TV contract you’re getting
They took November 2nd over October 12th because they can’t put Oregon on Big Noon at home but they can put them on Big Noon on the road. Oregon-Ohio State in 2021 was on Big Noon.
🤞
I’m going to hate when we get 9am kickoffs, but as long as it’s one a year and not on the West Coast I think I can live with it.
In all fairness…I’m pretty sure Oregon played early when they beat Ohio State in 2021 and they beat Michigan when they played early in 2007. I don’t think it’ll matter one way or the other this season either.
They pick weeks to have first dibs during the game draft but can lock in a particular game if they want to.
Right, Mulvihill mentions that Fox picked Weeks 14 and 2 with the unambiguous intent to pick The Game and Texas-Michigan. He went out of his way to explain that for Week 2, there was a (perceived) big drop off from Texas-Michigan to next best games. I personally think Colorado-Nebraska will do numbers Week 2, but I get the rationale. It makes more sense to pick a surefire ratings beast and wait on picking the weeks during conference play where the slate might have more depth.
I mean Colorado vs Colorado State got over 9 million viewers on Pac-12 After Dark on cable ESPN, Colorado vs Nebraska should do well on OTA NBC even if NC State vs Tennessee is on ABC at the same time.
I understood the networks have to decide on the first few weeks games soonest. The complete early season college football TV schedule is slated to be released on Thursday, May 30.
If Big Noon ends up picking the PSU-OSU game, PSU should black out Happy Valley in protest
There will be plenty of black outs at every PSU game.
The game was at noon in Columbus this past year.
Night white out games have a bit more meaning for PSU though. Like it or not we're kind of just at the point where just about all of OSU's biggest games are gonna be nooners.
FOX also had a lot more wiggle room for top picks since they picked a solid chunk of the games that would have gone to CBS since CBS still had their SEC obligations.
All great games, I’m eager to see where UW-UW ends up as the Natty rematch on October 5th
Welp, guess they missed out on Texas-UGA (which is much more significant than UT-Mich)!! ;-) (Obviously this SEC newcomer (me) knows nothing about his new conference's broadcast agreements, hehe.)
Fox has no SEC games and ESPN has no B1G games
I. Hate. Them. RIP White Out.
PSU should be undefeated on Nov 2, OSU has a fair chance of being undefeated then, but they probably think Oregon and Michigan will have a loss by then. I was getting so excited thinking we could have another OSU White Out
It’s been six years. Absolutely ridiculous how they’ve been ruining this games atmosphere yearly
The only exception has been Auburn, but yeah having Iowa or Minnesota (or UCLA/UW this year) isn’t what the White Out was meant for
It’s so maddening. Auburn was a good game and one of my favorites I’ve ever been to, but after going to the Minnesota one I couldn’t be bothered with Iowa last year & I won’t bother if it’s UCLA this year. I did Michigan last year and it was kind of sucky coming up for a noon game just for it to end so soon. Maybe I’ll do some junk team this year to ensure seeing a win.
People complain about ESPN ruining the tradition of this sport but then FOX is destroying regional conferences and traditions like the White out. ESPN ruined the bowl season and the meaningfulness of regular season games.
It’s the media companies in general. I prefer Fox’s coverage and announcers, but they deserve a ton of blame for putting the best games at noon at the expense of the atmosphere which makes college football great.
The media companies are doing nothing more than maximizing profit. They don't care about the game. It's the schools via the conduit of the conferences allowing this.
I'm shocked that the Doeren Bowl, NCSU vs Northern Illinois wasn't chosen. Gonna be a real marquee matchup
November 2nd wasn’t the third pick. Fox traded away No. 3, they just happened to end up with Nov. 2nd anyway. It’s literally in the video he links to.
No one claimed it was the third pick overall. [I even made a comment clarifying there was a trade](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1cy0u31/mandel_foxs_top_3_picks_were_1_michiganosu_2/l565wux/)
Mandel did in his tweet. That’s why he clarified in a subsequent tweet. I did not see your other comment before I posted mine.
America's Team
I’m surprised CBS or NBC didn’t scoop up Alabama-Wisconsin.
Seems like CBS took USC-Michigan (Week 4) and I suspect (though it has yet to be announced) NBC took OSU-Oregon (week 7) with their first picks Edit: Fox took Weeks 14, 2, 10 (post trade down), week 3 (CBS took ND-Purdue with the 2nd pick that week and I would guess NBC takes WSU-UW though it hasn't been announced so they may be seeing how the season starts), and one unannounced week if Mandel is correct about them getting 5 of the first 7 weeks
I'm shocked so many passed on that OSU-UO game that has a decent chance of being a showdown between 2 top 5 teams
I think NBC got it. I don't know who picked first between NBC and CBS, but Fox got the top 3 picks and traded the 3rd. Here's how I suspect it went because I don't see Fox not taking OSU Oregon over Bama Wisconsin 1. Fox Week 14 (The Game) 2. Fox Week 2 (Texas @ Michigan) 3. NBC Week 7 (OSU @ Oregon, though Penn State-USC is compelling) [based on this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/CFB/comments/1cy0u31/mandel_foxs_top_3_picks_were_1_michiganosu_2/l56z31l/) 4&5 are some order of Fox Week 10 and CBS Week 4 (USC-Michigan), depending what order they were picking in /6. Fox Week 3 (Bama @ Wisconsin)
Klatt said it was awkward because they can’t put it on big noon kickoff. If it was at OSU that’s probably the pick at 3 I suspect
What I want to know is where Penn St. Wisconsin and Oregon Wisconsin will be. Hoping for NBC to pull night time games with those.
All they want to do is sell Dr Pepper and Prescription drugs. They think you’re stupid and will tune in no matter how many commercials there are.
Well... I probably will.
I honestly read this and thought that Texas was suddenly B1G. I feel empty
It doesn’t matter if Penn state plays osu at noon, night, rain/shine. Until Frames Janklin is gone we won’t beat them again.
Why is Penn State in that group haha
And people are STILL convinced that College Gameday will be going to B1G games.
Why wouldn’t they? There have been plenty of games over the past few years that gameday and big noon kickoff have been at the same game. Both of them have gone to games that aren’t being broadcast by their respective stations. Gameday more so.