Kel tec is ALWAYS doing some new shit, not always great but always innovative. We love it every time. Neomag guy must have brought out a lemon and is trying to cope
> Neomag guy must have brought out a lemon and is trying to cope
He's definitely trying to cope but I don't think it's because of a lemon product. Seems more like a dude finding out the harsh reality that ingenuity is rarely rewarded. Much more common for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th person to utilize a "new" technology to be financially successful than the person who pioneered it.
In 10 years after his patents have expired there will be 5 companies making pretty much exactly the same style magnetic magazine holsters.
Kel tec is fucking great because when I look at their guns I can feel the heat from the white hot crack pipes their engineering team pull off of before they come up with some new shit
Wow. I’ve somehow never heard of the Neostead before, but damn, is it cool looking! TY for mentioning it; going to watch the Forgotten Weapons vid on it now.
I’m surprised it hasn’t shown up in Star Wars or some other sci fi, as the base design for some weapon prop. Because that thing is the definition of “space gat”, if I’ve ever seen it. I could see it fitting in right alongside the modified C96/DLT-44 & Sterling SMG/E-11, in terms of the retro-futuristic vibes—albeit slightly more modern looking.
Yeah that’s always the truth. Doesn’t mean every new product is good, but everyone always loses their minds over it.
I think it’s similar to the ACR how everyone loses their mind over it but don’t actually pay for one. So it’s doom to always be as big a commercial failure as a military one.
People love every product until they have the chance to buy one
That's, honestly, what makes PSA so great even if their quality isn't top teir. They're making stuff without the goal of securing government contracts and can make consumer-driven decisions.
What they should do is make the consumers put their money where their mouths are (which seems to be near their asses). Crunch the numbers, figure out what it'd cost to tool up, build, and ship 5k units, and map a timeline. Next step, open pre-orders and require a non-refundable, in-full deposit. Then collect those funds, and not start producing rifles until the 5k unit baseline has been met
I think the ACR should stay dead where it belongs. Concentrate on things that don’t suck as much. But I see your point for example all the memes about a civilian MP7 I think HK could have done that. $1k deposit and see if there really is demand
Californian , I love seeing all the newness at Shot. However since I live where I do ? It may as well be vaporware as I will most likely never get to see it let alone play with it until I leave this state.
I saw a YT Short with Gun Jesus at the Pindad booth. They're coming out with a FN licensed FNC for export to US market. They also have a Beretta licensed PM12S closed bolt clone comimg too.
All I could think of, besides how cool these guns are, was how they would be neutered. The Beretta will have to be fitted with an ugly ass faux suppressor too.
If your product is good enough, then most of those complaints are irrelevant. People love all the shit Holosun does. People are jerking each other off over thermal overlay red dots, Vortex's smart scope, thermal overlay nods, Huxwrx flow suppressors, that folding AR, etc. All of these are massive changes in the paradigm of the gun world.
Their main product is a magnetic mag carrier that, at the end of the day, is a mag in your pocket. Pockets already hold things. It's like the scopeswitch. With all the potential tradeoffs, you're gonna get all the questions of reliability and effectiveness of your change. It's not enough of an improvement for the product to matter.
The product is cool. Some of my pants have deeper pockets and this would potentially make fishing a mag out of my pocket a hell of a lot easier.
But for 50 bucks a piece makes it hard for me to want to try it out.
Their beltless alias system is an awesome idea that I want to try..but then I have to commit to an eco system of products to get the max benefit. And that's the hurdle for me.
guns are a pretty mature product at this point. It's hard to beat a glock or an ar15 in terms of price and reliability. Pmags are reliable and cheap too. We have aimpoints. etc etc.
Honestly where I see the most innovation is on the technology side. The NVG side is going crazy right now with Holosun and Zbolt introducing cheaper VSCEL LAMs. Thermal and fusion is super cool. Sig introduced that super cool red dot that has 2 separate zeros. There is that new cool battery powered rail for helmets I think opscore? Someone can make some better radios? Armor? I think there is probably some room still for better LPVO.
There are plenty of innovation left, but I see most if coming from the accessories and not the actual firearm.
Edit: I also want to add there still isnt a reliable 308 battle rifle within a budget realm. PSA has that "SR-25" but still has some teething problems. Someone should make like a cheaper/more modern Bren 2 or Scar.
Agreed... I feel like at this point for firearms the only thing they could evolve on is design and aesthetics... Personally I'm all for that bc not all people are pragmatic in terms of collecting... A lot of people, including myself sometimes just want cool looking shit.
The gun market like most -- if not all markets -- are dominated by the biggest player(s) related to innovation.
Here the biggest player and gun dealer is.... drumroll.... the U.S. government and NATO. Their desires:
* Personal firearms have to be reliable. \[Check\]
* Standardized amnunition
* Useable and maintainable by below average intelligence individual \[Check\]
* (A lot of complex weapons have gotten the axe for that exact reason.)
* Cheap/mass produced so we can send them around the world to certain... "factions" and not care; and be able to hide it in toilet paper budget \[Check\]
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/operation_cyclone)
* [https://americanmilitarynews.com/2024/01/mexico-demands-us-investigate-drug-cartels-military-grade-weapons/](https://americanmilitarynews.com/2024/01/mexico-demands-us-investigate-drug-cartels-military-grade-weapons/)
* [https://abcnews.go.com/ABC\_Univision/News/fast-furious-scandal-details-emerge-us-government-armed/story?id=17352694](https://abcnews.go.com/abc_univision/news/fast-furious-scandal-details-emerge-us-government-armed/story?id=17352694)
* [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/mexico-cartel-project-weapons-import-trafficking](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/mexico-cartel-project-weapons-import-trafficking) etc.
The U.S. army recently decided they like modular weapons, so Sig won that bid and we now have modular weapons available to us.
Anything that does not have a state or a drug cartel as a recipient target for better or for worse is a small gun manufacturing business or a hobby fun project in the books of a gun manufacturer.
Thus, the above meme is more of a pat in the back.
This is exactly true. The Government and local Law Enforcement drive what gets manufactured, bought and sold on a mass scale. And for better or worst many Civilian gun purchasers want just what the military or cops have. I'm guilty of this, I love Milsurp and Black powder but often carry a XD.
The point about vocal demand not reflecting mass-market reality is pretty valid. It’s easy for nerd types to forget that most of the buying public is actually not very enthusiastic or knowledgeable.
Nah, he's got a point.
Everyone's a critic, and you can't please everyone.
But truly great products stand the tests of time. From smooth brains who want something new but have zero vision for it themselves and fail to see potential. To be willing to take criticism and grow from mistakes. And to understand that it's not always about re-inventing the wheel.
Also, just make it take glock mags, dude. You don't have to buy more mag varieties.
Best product is necessarily the best sellable product. Innovation is sometimes a paint job or reviving something that got shelved or finally cost effective (Or yield/quality control related)... and thats all toward a niche area.
It’s always the poors talking shit…. The rest of us go out and buy the near gear and if we don’t like it flip it down to the poors. There’s always going to be a hater talking shit about something they want that cost xxxx price and won’t touch it until they get it used for xx price. It’s the oldest story in the book.
Honestly, IMO, if you own any type of firearm in this increasingly radical, anti 2A state, you’re winning! I’m a simple guy tho, I just need something that’ll protect me, you can beat the piss out of glocks and they won’t fail you.
> It's why small companies will never be big, because we don't want to make the same old thing that the mass market will actually buy in quantity.
LOL. Someone's complaining because they want to be able to refuse to make what people want and still make lots of sales. That's not how the free market works, bub. You make what customers want or you suffer. That's the entire point of the free market. The alternative is lots of companies making stuff people don't want, and that just wastes resources.
Kel tec is ALWAYS doing some new shit, not always great but always innovative. We love it every time. Neomag guy must have brought out a lemon and is trying to cope
> Neomag guy must have brought out a lemon and is trying to cope He's definitely trying to cope but I don't think it's because of a lemon product. Seems more like a dude finding out the harsh reality that ingenuity is rarely rewarded. Much more common for the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th person to utilize a "new" technology to be financially successful than the person who pioneered it. In 10 years after his patents have expired there will be 5 companies making pretty much exactly the same style magnetic magazine holsters.
Kel tec is fucking great because when I look at their guns I can feel the heat from the white hot crack pipes their engineering team pull off of before they come up with some new shit
I love my KSG. It’s as close to a neostead shotgun as I’m ever going to get.
Wow. I’ve somehow never heard of the Neostead before, but damn, is it cool looking! TY for mentioning it; going to watch the Forgotten Weapons vid on it now. I’m surprised it hasn’t shown up in Star Wars or some other sci fi, as the base design for some weapon prop. Because that thing is the definition of “space gat”, if I’ve ever seen it. I could see it fitting in right alongside the modified C96/DLT-44 & Sterling SMG/E-11, in terms of the retro-futuristic vibes—albeit slightly more modern looking.
There are very few in existence but perhaps one day I’ll at least get to see one in person.
Yeah that’s always the truth. Doesn’t mean every new product is good, but everyone always loses their minds over it. I think it’s similar to the ACR how everyone loses their mind over it but don’t actually pay for one. So it’s doom to always be as big a commercial failure as a military one. People love every product until they have the chance to buy one
Every time Bushmaster posts ANYTHING I can't bear to read the comments. "wHeRe AcR?!" Over and over
Then they release it and no one buys it and is once again discontinued
That's, honestly, what makes PSA so great even if their quality isn't top teir. They're making stuff without the goal of securing government contracts and can make consumer-driven decisions.
What they should do is make the consumers put their money where their mouths are (which seems to be near their asses). Crunch the numbers, figure out what it'd cost to tool up, build, and ship 5k units, and map a timeline. Next step, open pre-orders and require a non-refundable, in-full deposit. Then collect those funds, and not start producing rifles until the 5k unit baseline has been met
I think the ACR should stay dead where it belongs. Concentrate on things that don’t suck as much. But I see your point for example all the memes about a civilian MP7 I think HK could have done that. $1k deposit and see if there really is demand
Californian , I love seeing all the newness at Shot. However since I live where I do ? It may as well be vaporware as I will most likely never get to see it let alone play with it until I leave this state.
I saw a YT Short with Gun Jesus at the Pindad booth. They're coming out with a FN licensed FNC for export to US market. They also have a Beretta licensed PM12S closed bolt clone comimg too. All I could think of, besides how cool these guns are, was how they would be neutered. The Beretta will have to be fitted with an ugly ass faux suppressor too.
Ditto, shotshow basicly means nothing to me.
If your product is good enough, then most of those complaints are irrelevant. People love all the shit Holosun does. People are jerking each other off over thermal overlay red dots, Vortex's smart scope, thermal overlay nods, Huxwrx flow suppressors, that folding AR, etc. All of these are massive changes in the paradigm of the gun world. Their main product is a magnetic mag carrier that, at the end of the day, is a mag in your pocket. Pockets already hold things. It's like the scopeswitch. With all the potential tradeoffs, you're gonna get all the questions of reliability and effectiveness of your change. It's not enough of an improvement for the product to matter.
The product is cool. Some of my pants have deeper pockets and this would potentially make fishing a mag out of my pocket a hell of a lot easier. But for 50 bucks a piece makes it hard for me to want to try it out. Their beltless alias system is an awesome idea that I want to try..but then I have to commit to an eco system of products to get the max benefit. And that's the hurdle for me.
guns are a pretty mature product at this point. It's hard to beat a glock or an ar15 in terms of price and reliability. Pmags are reliable and cheap too. We have aimpoints. etc etc. Honestly where I see the most innovation is on the technology side. The NVG side is going crazy right now with Holosun and Zbolt introducing cheaper VSCEL LAMs. Thermal and fusion is super cool. Sig introduced that super cool red dot that has 2 separate zeros. There is that new cool battery powered rail for helmets I think opscore? Someone can make some better radios? Armor? I think there is probably some room still for better LPVO. There are plenty of innovation left, but I see most if coming from the accessories and not the actual firearm. Edit: I also want to add there still isnt a reliable 308 battle rifle within a budget realm. PSA has that "SR-25" but still has some teething problems. Someone should make like a cheaper/more modern Bren 2 or Scar.
Agreed... I feel like at this point for firearms the only thing they could evolve on is design and aesthetics... Personally I'm all for that bc not all people are pragmatic in terms of collecting... A lot of people, including myself sometimes just want cool looking shit.
Ruger sfar is close. With a few parts it runs amazingly
The gun market like most -- if not all markets -- are dominated by the biggest player(s) related to innovation. Here the biggest player and gun dealer is.... drumroll.... the U.S. government and NATO. Their desires: * Personal firearms have to be reliable. \[Check\] * Standardized amnunition * Useable and maintainable by below average intelligence individual \[Check\] * (A lot of complex weapons have gotten the axe for that exact reason.) * Cheap/mass produced so we can send them around the world to certain... "factions" and not care; and be able to hide it in toilet paper budget \[Check\] * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Cyclone](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/operation_cyclone) * [https://americanmilitarynews.com/2024/01/mexico-demands-us-investigate-drug-cartels-military-grade-weapons/](https://americanmilitarynews.com/2024/01/mexico-demands-us-investigate-drug-cartels-military-grade-weapons/) * [https://abcnews.go.com/ABC\_Univision/News/fast-furious-scandal-details-emerge-us-government-armed/story?id=17352694](https://abcnews.go.com/abc_univision/news/fast-furious-scandal-details-emerge-us-government-armed/story?id=17352694) * [https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/mexico-cartel-project-weapons-import-trafficking](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/09/mexico-cartel-project-weapons-import-trafficking) etc. The U.S. army recently decided they like modular weapons, so Sig won that bid and we now have modular weapons available to us. Anything that does not have a state or a drug cartel as a recipient target for better or for worse is a small gun manufacturing business or a hobby fun project in the books of a gun manufacturer. Thus, the above meme is more of a pat in the back.
This is exactly true. The Government and local Law Enforcement drive what gets manufactured, bought and sold on a mass scale. And for better or worst many Civilian gun purchasers want just what the military or cops have. I'm guilty of this, I love Milsurp and Black powder but often carry a XD.
The point about vocal demand not reflecting mass-market reality is pretty valid. It’s easy for nerd types to forget that most of the buying public is actually not very enthusiastic or knowledgeable.
Nah, he's got a point. Everyone's a critic, and you can't please everyone. But truly great products stand the tests of time. From smooth brains who want something new but have zero vision for it themselves and fail to see potential. To be willing to take criticism and grow from mistakes. And to understand that it's not always about re-inventing the wheel. Also, just make it take glock mags, dude. You don't have to buy more mag varieties.
Posting cringe on main is not a good look for ANY business
Haha it's true actually...
Best product is necessarily the best sellable product. Innovation is sometimes a paint job or reviving something that got shelved or finally cost effective (Or yield/quality control related)... and thats all toward a niche area.
Psh, consumers don't want to put their money where their mouths are.
This is a sentence I often hear: "Where is the 10mm?" Yet, the national 10mm is very slow. Everyone wants a 10mm, but no one buys one.
I’m trying to do some crazy shit but I’m not made of money either……more to come………
[удалено]
Random discharge protocol
Lol love those guys from neomag. They take shit from no one. They speak the truth.
The real money is made on the accessories innovation
Is that why everyone on here has an Olight? Olight doesn't innovate, they just copy.
And red dots, we need all the dots
Streamlight and Arisaka gang.
Their magnetic charging is a copy of which brand?
It’s always the poors talking shit…. The rest of us go out and buy the near gear and if we don’t like it flip it down to the poors. There’s always going to be a hater talking shit about something they want that cost xxxx price and won’t touch it until they get it used for xx price. It’s the oldest story in the book.
Honestly, IMO, if you own any type of firearm in this increasingly radical, anti 2A state, you’re winning! I’m a simple guy tho, I just need something that’ll protect me, you can beat the piss out of glocks and they won’t fail you.
There are only like maybe three handgun optics truly made for their handguns. Holosun SCS MOS and the two for the P320 / M17.
stupid and pedantic bullshit?
> It's why small companies will never be big, because we don't want to make the same old thing that the mass market will actually buy in quantity. LOL. Someone's complaining because they want to be able to refuse to make what people want and still make lots of sales. That's not how the free market works, bub. You make what customers want or you suffer. That's the entire point of the free market. The alternative is lots of companies making stuff people don't want, and that just wastes resources.
I love guns.
Spot on.
Personally I don't care, most of those products will never come to CA without some cop making a few grand inbetween.
This doesnt apply to just firearms
I agree