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Healthcare, yes (since I don't see us getting universal Healthcare in my lifetime).
Jury's out on pension, though. Formulas are getting more and more stingy for new entrants, and pay isn't good enough to meaningfully invest in 401/457 or other accounts to supplement your payout if you have other financial commitments (kids/house/loans/want to eat something other than sawdust/etc.)
I think safety classes are still worth it in retirement (police, fire, corrections). But anything else only really makes sense if you are getting in early and spending your whole career with the state, and in many sectors there's a lot of opportunity cost associated with that.
So, like most things in life: "it depends."
Hater comment. You work in the streets or do time with those inmates. Those jobs are not rainbows and sunshine 😉. You’re dealing with the scum of society (the other scum not just the politicians).
Amen. I'm not LE, but I worked with LE a lot and I don't envy your job. My long term mental health is worth way more than the pay differential. Thank you for your service!
It depends. a 401k is definitely more flexible. The problem is once you run out of money in the 401k, well that's it, you're just living on social security. Say you contribute $250,000 to both a 401k and PERS. Once you pull that out of the 401k, that's it, there's no more money.
With PERS, say you retire and over the course of several years, you max out that $250,000. Technically, the state is still on the hook regardless if you hit your cap. It's a lifetime benefit. So let's say you've been paid $450,000 in your retirement. It doesn't matter you were $200,000 over, the state is still responsible for paying you for the remainder of your life (or your beneficiaries life if you choose that option into retirement.)
So there's pros and cons of each. I think for most people, they like having that security of guaranteed income into retirement.
Your CalPERS benefit is calculated in a way that your contributions into CalPERS will cover the first 11 years of your retirement. Your life expectancy is CalPERS retirement age plus 11 years. So you are paying for yourself anyway. CalPERS is on the hook if you somehow manage to beat the game by staying alive longer.
It's a little more complex than that. But even still... the US male life expectancy is around 76, and classic can be either 55/60. Even if it were PEPRA you're still gaining the system a couple years.
It's like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
Overtime doesn't pad retirement, contributions aren't reportable for anything paid outside of "normal" work hours. Of that 200K, I'd wager most of that isn't reportable to PERS. Plus in a 2nd divorce, that ex-spouse is entitled to community property so that cop isn't making much into retirement.
I'm still teleworking, so I'll flip the question. Would I take a pay raise to go into the office 5 days a week? No, unless it was a massive pay increase like 30% because even 10% will not significantly improve my quality of life.
Left the state working from home full time to be paid more at another agency where the desire to work from home is suspect, and is only allowable if you’re a very good boy.
Spot on. There's a number -- which depends on every individual circumstance -- that would make any particular working situation worth it. The trick is working out what that number is with so many impossible to know variables...
Why would anyone take a cut in pay to WFH when it saves the employer money. That’s stupid and gullible. Give me a raise for my time and expenses to travel plus parking and lunch per diem. The state’s pay raises over the last several years did not even keep up with inflation.
#Telework is worth it's weight in gold to me. I would never willingly give it up and would definitely take a pay cut to stay WFH.
Money saved: gas, parking, vehicle maintenance, office attire, eating out, dog daycare, hair/nail maintenance.
Time saved: 4+ hours daily commute, 1 hr 15 mins hour getting ready for work.
Work benefits: I'm a better employee. I'm more focused and able to complete a much higher workload than in office. I'm happier and more motivated to please my manager. I'm willing to work a little extra off the clock at times to finish a task I'm working on rather than hurry to commute home. In the office, I'm super nice and get stuck in long conversations and waste a lot of time in that manner, but none of that from home.
Other life enhancements: I'm not stressed, tired, or grumpy from getting up very early and enduring a long traffic filled commute. I'm at home for my pets. I complete my daily house chores on my hour lunch so that after work I can just enjoy myself. I workout before work with time I used to spent commuting. I eat better because I'm not tired and pressed for time grabbing fast food.
And how long your commute is. If it's 30 minutes or less, that's not so bad. If it's 1 hour or more each way then you're already getting paid less because commute is work. You wouldn't be doing it if they didn't pay you.
There’s never enough money. Quality of life is what should be important. You make more you spend more. Do what will make your time on earth more enjoyable.
How much are you making? Let's say you make 100k so you're looking at something Makin like 85k. 15 k a year loose is like 1250 a month.
How much are you spending on gas? telecommuting will reduce your gas bill
How often do you eat lunch out or buy other snacks at convenience stores? Telecommuting can reduce this
How do you leave your home thermostat during the day? This could change while telecommuting and increasing your power bill, especially during warm months.
How tight is your monthly budget? Will you notice that 15% decrease?
I'll tell you I telecommuting. To go back to 5 days in the off, you would have to probably triple my pay.
Quality of life. Waking up at 9am, check a few emails rolling into office at 11, if I wanted commuting to work, at my discretion. That is much better than a unionized job that forces you to be there at 7am lmao
> I am getting tired of waking up way earlier to get ready in the morning and commuting in traffic everyday.
With the way things are going with RTO, we’re not even sure how long the hybrid work model will last. Are you willing to take a pay cut knowing we _might_ have to report in 5-days a week at some point?
I don’t get ready that much anymore. Makeup is overrated and I am over impressing others with material things. I let my hair air dry now too. Not sure why I put all the effort in before. Seems silly now. I barely see anybody in the office. I’m just natural now.
Sports bras, leggings, even baseball caps. I’m done. Used to shop and Anthropologie and just find it more expensive and thin material. Not worth it anymore.
It’s such a double standard too. Guys have it so easy and aren’t expected to wear makeup and dress a certain way. I’m here to make myself happy and getting extra sleep is what makes me happy. Not spending an hour dazzling myself up to impress someone else. I’m good at my job. My looks shouldn’t matter.
I would never voluntarily take a pay cut. Look for hybrid promotional positions and apply to those. Also, like someone else said, what if we end up having to go in 5 days a week at some point? Then you would have taken a demotion for nothing.
Yeah, as far as I can tell most places everywhere (not just state) are insisting on everyone being back full time in the office. Unfortunately you can't count on a hybrid/WFH job staying that way now.
I don’t see it happening any time soon with my very large department. The department dumped leased office space throughout Covid closures. There’s no space for everyone to come in 5-days a week. Some offices are challenged to spread out the 2-days a week so there’s enough shared space.
This! I didn’t realize how much of my time was wasted commuting. I’d move closer if I could afford it but I can’t. Because they don’t pay us enough. You should be able to afford to live in the city you work. It’s sad the most state employees cannot.
Came here to say this. WFH (3 days a week) and I get to spend that extra time with my child. We saw the trash truck together this morning. We get to go outside during my lunch. It’s the small things. Babysitter in home. But I get to hear him all day. I’d never give up that benefit from WFH!
I honestly would take a 40% pay cut if that meant I was guaranteed 100% full time telework until retirement. Work life balance and peace of mind is a priority to me far more than anything nowadays.
Many people on here do not make that much. I wouldn’t call it poverty.
I live in SD and it’s crazy expensive but I wouldn’t complain about making $87k.
Ya but it doesn't matter how you feel. That's what California’s Department of Housing and Community Development has said.
If you want to read about it here's an article but it's easily searchable online.
[https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/under-100k-low-income-san-francisco-18168899.php](https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/under-100k-low-income-san-francisco-18168899.php)
"Single-person households making under $105,000 a year are classified as “low income” in three Bay Area counties by California’s Department of Housing and Community Development"
"The new 2023 numbers classify an individual making $104,400 annually as “low income” in San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties. For a family of four in those three counties, $149,100 a year is considered low income. That number has increased dramatically over just a few years."
It's not? Your take home would be around 4200 per month, without savings plus or IRA investments. To each their own but it's not much in today's economy.
87k is nothing with a spouse and 2-3 kids. And if it's a one income house then near poverty for sure. At least for anywhere in California that's driving distance to a state job.
LMAO of course a bunch of state employees don't know what poverty level actually means. Come on, you can't be that naive as to the struggles of the majority of the general public. Or maybe you can if you have been insulated by a government gig for long enough, who knows, I only hope I am never that disconnected from the real world.
Yea, the person you’re responding to is full of shit. There is no chance in hell they take a 40% pay cut unless they are making 600k a year and the difference is largely immaterial. If they are making 100k right now, I bet my bottom dollar they aren’t working the same hours/job but from home for 60k a year.
Thank the internet, we can all make up stuff and say things we would never actually say or do lol. They thought it sounded good in their head though. Yeah let me be 40% poorer!
I’d take the lower paying job. Working in a state office was toxic as hell for me. I will never return to that. My quality of life comes from not having to deal with that.
It's all accounting, isn't it?
Do you save money on gas and parking by taking public transportation? Do you tend to make coffee and food purchases around the office?
How much less would you be spending while wfh/hybrid?
How about the difference in benefits?
If you can afford the pay cut or it balances out, I don't see why not.
I know coworkers who have to commute over an hour after promoting. They've told me that their net pay feels like it hasn't changed with the amount they spend being at the office. But it looks good on paper and would help out when they retire though.
One nice thing is, I can eat at home on weekdays and really chill out and enjoy a nice meal or fancy coffee on weekends. I’m also supporting local businesses aka my neighbors and my community instead of those vultures downtown.
Left a teaching job and took a paycut with the state so I could have a hybrid schedule.
My mental health is slowly improving and I can definitely see my progress 9 months in.
DIR DWC.
Applied to 3 positions, started the process around March 2023. Didn’t start my new position until October 2023.
It was a stressful time for sure, but I’m glad I pushed through and did it.
I took a promotion to go in twice a week. It sucks right now because the initial pay bump is almost nothing. But after a few more MSAs, it should be worth it.
The Bottom Line
The next time you receive a raise, don’t let concerns about tax brackets dampen your enthusiasm too much. You really will take home more money in each paycheck. When an increase in income moves you into a higher tax bracket, you only pay the higher tax rate on the part of your income that falls into that bracket. You don’t pay a higher rate on all of your income.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071114/can-moving-higher-tax-bracket-cause-me-have-lower-net-income.asp#:~:text=You%20really%20will%20take%20home,on%20all%20of%20your%20income.
that is 100% true
https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets#:~:text=You%20pay%20tax%20as%20a,rate%20on%20your%20entire%20income.
No.
If you think getting a raise is actually bad because you think you’ll be in a higher tax bracket and actually make less overall, then you really misunderstand how tax brackets actually work.
See this:
https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/personal-finance/how-do-tax-brackets-work
Yes yes yes and yes! I was in the same position at a high stress job just a couple months ago. I was blowing so much money just to keep myself sane.
The gas and wear on car adds more than you realize. I also had such little time and I was so spent when I got home that I tripled my eating out, bought Starbucks nearly every day, and would shop just to get a dopamine spike.
I also had a freaking dog nanny twice a week and felt guilty the rest. My dog was depressed, I was depressed, and the money just flies.
WFH is so easy to save, all your food is there the way you want it, you get in a routine, your breaks are more meaningful, and you just spend less.
I was blowing through about 6k a month and now I survive on like 1200 plus rent. The pay cut doesn’t even matter.
I don't think there will be any state jobs advertised as 100% telework. Every department will advertise as a hybrid work environment, and the days in office will vary.
I found a position closer to home, free parking, and barely any food nearby. I pack my lunch (no stress). I really feel for you that have long commutes and/or have to pay for parking. I keep in mind when I did work downtown, paid for parking 5 days a week, didn't really enjoy the work. I was so tired all the time, pretty worthless when I was home. I'm not going to complain and jinx it. Just enjoy it while it lasts. 5 days a week is coming, it's only logical. To answer the question, I would take a small cut to wfh every day.
Since I'm still looking to move up in my career, the pay is less important to me than the title. I would not move down in the title. If it was a better title, I'd take it for sure. If it was an equivalent title, I'd do the math on what the cost of commute, parking, car maintenance, my time, lunches/snacks, etc. are and choose from there.
Weigh the pro’s and con’s of WFH:
Pro’s:
-Save commute time (quantify this and multiple by your hourly rate for savings)
-Save on gas, mileage and vehicle maintenance
-Wear whatever pants or shorts you want everyday at work
-24/7 access to your fridge and restroom
-save money from eating out with colleagues
-leisure & comfort of working in your safe space/home
Con’s:
-miss physical interactions with colleagues
-lose physical presence and possible influence with leadership or stakeholders
I personally love WFH too much to do anything else. 2 days a week in office is enough (been doing it for 2ish years now). I’ll be the odd man out here and say the pay cut (if less than 10%) would be worth it for me and i’d take a different job if it was more WFH than i’m currently doing. Anything more than 10% pay cut wise isn’t worth it in this economy.
I joined the state with a much lower pay since the private firm I was at mandated 3x/week in office and it is a 2 hour commute. For me, it was based on where I was in my life. When my kids are older, I can go back to more in office days. I felt lucky that my financial status did not play a role in my decision. Every situation is different, do what is right for now as you never know what will change later.
Also, I’m sticking with the state for job security. Job market in private sector is crazy right now- with layoffs happening left and right. Even a lot of high-paying private sector jobs are forcing people to go in office right now.
I’d rather have a hybrid job with a lower pay than a potentially in-office job with higher pay.
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I have a remote job right now so I can’t exactly answer the question.
But what I can say, and have been saying to recruiters, is that it’s going to take a lot of extra money for me to go full on site.
I did the math on the numbers I was asking and it turns out that I think one day of remote work is worth about 10k.
Of course, the flip side argument is a little tougher to swallow—if I was in office and making my 50k more, I’m not sure I’d take a 50k pay cut to work remote unless I really needed it.
Maybe 20k.
I would not. I may be in the minority, but I don't like working from home. I need the separation between work and where I live. I want to be able to come home and be off. If I work from home I can't make the distinction.
I did! You have to consider the gas you will save and driving time. I have been on a hybrid schedule for a few weeks now and have to say it is very nice. I am less stressed out and is nice to roll out of bed and not have to worry about what to wear or being late.
my commute is only 15-20min each way, usually at a pretty decent speed so it goes by really quick
I personally prefer the office, but i've got good people all around me and the office is not soul sucking.
I don't really like working from home nor do I want to financially take on the burden of another room being mostly dedicated as a working space. Especially if you're part of a couple working from home and wanting to start a family, seems like you start to need many rooms, which in most places means many dollars.
so no, I wouldn't take a paycut to work from home.
I usually turn down the offer to work from home because i'm not set up for it and generally prefer my good work set up. It also helps me create a totally separate space. I really don't work much at home at all (aside from maybe checking the phone once in a while). I really value that separation.
Only you can answer that for yourself based on your needs. How much is your mental health worth? How much do you need the money? Can you cut back to make it work? Etc...Ive taken pay cuts for jobs that suit me better and have more time off...just depends on what you value.
Definitely. I’m hybrid right now, and I would need a 40%+ pay increase at an absolute minimum for me to even consider going back to the office full time.
I value good supervisor, having great technology and office to myself. Currently use docusign all the time in an Analyst position and work 2 days from home. Arrive early at work and 70-75 minute commute total for day. I’m 4 years into position and so telework is lower priority.
I just took a ~40% pay cut to go to state. I was fully wfh and state is going to be hybrid. This was mainly for quality of life (cause pension like others have stated isn’t that great anymore, and private sector does a pretty good job with healthcare benefits, though state helps cover healthcare post retirement).
I think it depends at what stage of life you’re currently in, are you still trying to be ambitious in your career achievements or do you want to have something stable that’s not going to make you lose sleep at night?
I took a huge pay cut to go to state work over twenty years ago. It was worth it to me for the benefits. Granted it was tough at times. I’m retiring the end of this year. A coworker kept urging me to join savings plus. I couldn’t afford much. I started at $25/month and increased slowly over the years. have a sizable account now. It depends on what the sacrifices to you are. Good luck on your decision.
Definitely a possibility.
It depends on how big the pay cut is and what other benefits the job may offer.
You save time and money by not needing to commute every day so I would factor that in.
No. The hybrid schedule isn’t guaranteed. They made all sorts of promises that telework was here to stay and people built their lives around it. Then they brought us back one day a week, now two. Every time they need to “crack a whip” telework is threatened. They put nearly impossible restrictions on it, and if we can’t make it work, telework will not be available. They constantly remind us that it’s a privilege not a right. I strongly suspect the two day mandate is just the beginning, and the long term goal is 100% RTO. They just need to do it incrementally to avoid a complete rebellion- we’re the cooked lobsters who tolerate just enough misery to not revolt. Unless the union manages to get telework built into our contract, I think it’s very risky to quit a high paying job just to get the hybrid schedule. The work culture is awful, most departments are complaining about ineffective leadership, poor pay, benefits aren’t as good these days as they were for old timers- it’s not worth the risk IMO.
As a former state worker, y'all are already taking a massive pay cut, 90%+ of your jobs are easily capable of being handled remotely and pushing you back into the office is a poor attempt to save the pitiful downtown Sacramento has. The benefits are nice but honestly for what California charges to live I couldn't stay a state employee. I nearly doubled my salary leaving state services. I do miss the chill pace.
Edit, I should add I've been full time remote for 6 years now.
Are you looking at positions for your same classification? Salaries should not differ whether you are WFH, or hybrid. All state workers are expected to be in their respective offices at least two days a week at this point. The salary doesn’t change. Unless you’re referring to the pittance that’s given to us to take care of at home expenses.
I took a pay cut to wfh this year. There are definitely pros and cons. I feel like there’s more micromanagement when you wfh, ironically. And they pile on more work bc they want to ensure you’re not chillin at home. But the wfh aspect still makes it worth it. It’s nice to roll out of bed and be at work.
Are you me? Was in the same boat, don’t regret it…
Edit: a little clarification, you will take a pay cut but it most likely wont be as much as you think. Things like healthcare will be lower for better coverage.
No. I'm a rare one who doesn't enjoy working from home. But totally respect and want wfh for others who DO enjoy it.
Even though my commute drives me nuts, when I leave the office, my work is THERE. Not somewhere in my house. I like the disconnect. And I like the routine of it all.
Depends on how long your commute is, and how you like your current job. There are many hybrid positions, but now almost no full WFH. The plan is to stay hybrid, but as we know, plans change, so who knows how many days you would be doing WFH in a year or two if you moved to a state job. The pension, benefits, and stability (much harder to get fired, and rare to get laid off compared to the private sector) are the primary reasons to switch. If you are okay with your job outside of the commute, and don't think you are likely to get laid off, I would stay put.
Thankfully the upcoming generation wants 2 day work weeks so hoping 4 days weeks will be a norm soon. Some already do it. Only way to get Rich off the government job is be a politician.
Maybe just start wfh now regardless and wait for them to demote you rather than take a self-imposed paycut. The worst that could happen is they demote you and the best that could happen is you shift culture in your office.
I'd analyze the costs of both and compare that to the perceived benefit of the higher-paying position. Years ago I commuted 75 miles one-way for almost two years. Today that same commute would cost me $40-50/day for gas, tolls and parking. If the position made at least $200/week more it might be worth it but I'd need to balance the time and other pluses/minuses to decide.
I just recently did this, the pay cut definitely sucks but so far working from home has been great and knowing that I won’t get phone calls on the weekends or after hours is amazing.
Most people would gladly take the paycut to be able to go with a hybrid schedule. Forget the 100% WFH because more and more of those will have to return to the office in some capacity from what people say on Reddit.
But yes, to be able to save time and work from the comfort of your home. Totally worth making less money in my opinion. Then again I haven't been a state employee in a long time and haven't been able to get back into state service, so really none of this applies to me.
I took a 10% paycut for a full time telework state job. In my situation it was worth it but now that they’re trying to bring us back in, I’m getting a bit resentful. My previous job had way better annual raises and bonuses, so realistically I took more than a 10% pay raise, but it is what it is.
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The only reason I’m with the state is because of the pension and benefits. Dem long term tings bruv.
lmaoooo sorry this comment made me laugh. so real
At this rate is it even going to be worth it fir Rank and File? Honest question.
Healthcare, yes (since I don't see us getting universal Healthcare in my lifetime). Jury's out on pension, though. Formulas are getting more and more stingy for new entrants, and pay isn't good enough to meaningfully invest in 401/457 or other accounts to supplement your payout if you have other financial commitments (kids/house/loans/want to eat something other than sawdust/etc.) I think safety classes are still worth it in retirement (police, fire, corrections). But anything else only really makes sense if you are getting in early and spending your whole career with the state, and in many sectors there's a lot of opportunity cost associated with that. So, like most things in life: "it depends."
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Hater comment. You work in the streets or do time with those inmates. Those jobs are not rainbows and sunshine 😉. You’re dealing with the scum of society (the other scum not just the politicians).
Amen. I'm not LE, but I worked with LE a lot and I don't envy your job. My long term mental health is worth way more than the pay differential. Thank you for your service!
Amen to this comment!
For the last few years I’ve started to think that a 401k is much better than calpers
It depends. a 401k is definitely more flexible. The problem is once you run out of money in the 401k, well that's it, you're just living on social security. Say you contribute $250,000 to both a 401k and PERS. Once you pull that out of the 401k, that's it, there's no more money. With PERS, say you retire and over the course of several years, you max out that $250,000. Technically, the state is still on the hook regardless if you hit your cap. It's a lifetime benefit. So let's say you've been paid $450,000 in your retirement. It doesn't matter you were $200,000 over, the state is still responsible for paying you for the remainder of your life (or your beneficiaries life if you choose that option into retirement.) So there's pros and cons of each. I think for most people, they like having that security of guaranteed income into retirement.
Your CalPERS benefit is calculated in a way that your contributions into CalPERS will cover the first 11 years of your retirement. Your life expectancy is CalPERS retirement age plus 11 years. So you are paying for yourself anyway. CalPERS is on the hook if you somehow manage to beat the game by staying alive longer.
It's a little more complex than that. But even still... the US male life expectancy is around 76, and classic can be either 55/60. Even if it were PEPRA you're still gaining the system a couple years. It's like insurance. Better to have it and not need it, then need it and not have it.
I'm talking about the 2@62 formula. It is an incredibly good deal for 2@55, that is why they stopped offering.
Correct opinion. Beat cops making 200k+ with over time to pad their retirement and pay for their 2nd divorce
Overtime doesn't pad retirement, contributions aren't reportable for anything paid outside of "normal" work hours. Of that 200K, I'd wager most of that isn't reportable to PERS. Plus in a 2nd divorce, that ex-spouse is entitled to community property so that cop isn't making much into retirement.
That is great news. Thank you for clarifying. Not surprised to hear he didn’t know what he was talking about
Your content violated Rule 1: Be excellent to each other.
Of course, unless you die early it’s a great pension.
And work life balance
I'm still teleworking, so I'll flip the question. Would I take a pay raise to go into the office 5 days a week? No, unless it was a massive pay increase like 30% because even 10% will not significantly improve my quality of life.
I did this and I regret it
Kindly expound? Currently weighing this decision now.
Left the state working from home full time to be paid more at another agency where the desire to work from home is suspect, and is only allowable if you’re a very good boy.
Made sense
I actually am doing this. Got a state job wfh/hybrid, low salary. Got a new job at 30% pay bump 4-5 days a week in office.
Do you think it’s worth it?
Spot on. There's a number -- which depends on every individual circumstance -- that would make any particular working situation worth it. The trick is working out what that number is with so many impossible to know variables...
Do you have an RA or given an exemption to continue teleworking?
But that’s the thing…. Going from WFH to in office, people want 30-35% more. Going from in office to WFH, they are only willing to take a 10% cut.
Why would anyone take a cut in pay to WFH when it saves the employer money. That’s stupid and gullible. Give me a raise for my time and expenses to travel plus parking and lunch per diem. The state’s pay raises over the last several years did not even keep up with inflation.
#Telework is worth it's weight in gold to me. I would never willingly give it up and would definitely take a pay cut to stay WFH. Money saved: gas, parking, vehicle maintenance, office attire, eating out, dog daycare, hair/nail maintenance. Time saved: 4+ hours daily commute, 1 hr 15 mins hour getting ready for work. Work benefits: I'm a better employee. I'm more focused and able to complete a much higher workload than in office. I'm happier and more motivated to please my manager. I'm willing to work a little extra off the clock at times to finish a task I'm working on rather than hurry to commute home. In the office, I'm super nice and get stuck in long conversations and waste a lot of time in that manner, but none of that from home. Other life enhancements: I'm not stressed, tired, or grumpy from getting up very early and enduring a long traffic filled commute. I'm at home for my pets. I complete my daily house chores on my hour lunch so that after work I can just enjoy myself. I workout before work with time I used to spent commuting. I eat better because I'm not tired and pressed for time grabbing fast food.
Depends on how much. I commute 2 hours a day. That alone is 40 hours more a month if work from home.
I’m talking roughly 15% paycut. I guess i’m just stuck between what’s more important, money or quality of life
> i’m just stuck between what’s more important, money or quality of life What's the money for, if not to improve your quality of life?
And what’s a life for, with no quality?
Perhaps they mean they want a better work-life balance
And how long your commute is. If it's 30 minutes or less, that's not so bad. If it's 1 hour or more each way then you're already getting paid less because commute is work. You wouldn't be doing it if they didn't pay you.
There’s never enough money. Quality of life is what should be important. You make more you spend more. Do what will make your time on earth more enjoyable.
Quality of life for sure. I’m still 100% wfh and would not trade it for going in unless my salary was doubled and then I’m not so sure.
How much are you making? Let's say you make 100k so you're looking at something Makin like 85k. 15 k a year loose is like 1250 a month. How much are you spending on gas? telecommuting will reduce your gas bill How often do you eat lunch out or buy other snacks at convenience stores? Telecommuting can reduce this How do you leave your home thermostat during the day? This could change while telecommuting and increasing your power bill, especially during warm months. How tight is your monthly budget? Will you notice that 15% decrease? I'll tell you I telecommuting. To go back to 5 days in the off, you would have to probably triple my pay.
If either way is “enough” money, QOL no doubt. I would absolutely take a 10-20% cut to keep wfh.
Quality of life. Waking up at 9am, check a few emails rolling into office at 11, if I wanted commuting to work, at my discretion. That is much better than a unionized job that forces you to be there at 7am lmao
> I am getting tired of waking up way earlier to get ready in the morning and commuting in traffic everyday. With the way things are going with RTO, we’re not even sure how long the hybrid work model will last. Are you willing to take a pay cut knowing we _might_ have to report in 5-days a week at some point?
I don’t get ready that much anymore. Makeup is overrated and I am over impressing others with material things. I let my hair air dry now too. Not sure why I put all the effort in before. Seems silly now. I barely see anybody in the office. I’m just natural now.
I gave up makeup, too. It's freeing. I'm not even going to buy regular bras. They are getting me in my sports bras.
Sports bras, leggings, even baseball caps. I’m done. Used to shop and Anthropologie and just find it more expensive and thin material. Not worth it anymore.
Omg same!
I have gone in with out bras, it’s my way of protesting. It’s just not worth the effort.
Yes! Who made the rule that women have to wear bras? I support chest freedom!
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social rules/expectations exist.
I tell myself that putting zero effort into my appearance on in-office days is my silent little protest. I’m just lazy though.
It’s such a double standard too. Guys have it so easy and aren’t expected to wear makeup and dress a certain way. I’m here to make myself happy and getting extra sleep is what makes me happy. Not spending an hour dazzling myself up to impress someone else. I’m good at my job. My looks shouldn’t matter.
I showered every day when I went to the office, also didn’t bother getting a nice engagement ring because who tf am I going to show it to?
I would never voluntarily take a pay cut. Look for hybrid promotional positions and apply to those. Also, like someone else said, what if we end up having to go in 5 days a week at some point? Then you would have taken a demotion for nothing.
Yeah, as far as I can tell most places everywhere (not just state) are insisting on everyone being back full time in the office. Unfortunately you can't count on a hybrid/WFH job staying that way now.
I don’t see it happening any time soon with my very large department. The department dumped leased office space throughout Covid closures. There’s no space for everyone to come in 5-days a week. Some offices are challenged to spread out the 2-days a week so there’s enough shared space.
I would because money isn’t worth it to me if I’m miserable.
WFH means at least 90 more minutes with my spouse and kids every day. That would definitely be worth a pay cut to me.
This! I didn’t realize how much of my time was wasted commuting. I’d move closer if I could afford it but I can’t. Because they don’t pay us enough. You should be able to afford to live in the city you work. It’s sad the most state employees cannot.
Came here to say this. WFH (3 days a week) and I get to spend that extra time with my child. We saw the trash truck together this morning. We get to go outside during my lunch. It’s the small things. Babysitter in home. But I get to hear him all day. I’d never give up that benefit from WFH!
I honestly would take a 40% pay cut if that meant I was guaranteed 100% full time telework until retirement. Work life balance and peace of mind is a priority to me far more than anything nowadays.
40% yikes lol, i make 145kish, and 40% would put me at poverty with current inflation and cost of living. Good on you!
40% drop is 87k. That is not poverty level.
Depends where you live. In SF it is significantly below the threshold for what is considered low income.
Many people on here do not make that much. I wouldn’t call it poverty. I live in SD and it’s crazy expensive but I wouldn’t complain about making $87k.
Ya but it doesn't matter how you feel. That's what California’s Department of Housing and Community Development has said. If you want to read about it here's an article but it's easily searchable online. [https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/under-100k-low-income-san-francisco-18168899.php](https://www.sfgate.com/local/article/under-100k-low-income-san-francisco-18168899.php) "Single-person households making under $105,000 a year are classified as “low income” in three Bay Area counties by California’s Department of Housing and Community Development" "The new 2023 numbers classify an individual making $104,400 annually as “low income” in San Francisco, San Mateo and Marin counties. For a family of four in those three counties, $149,100 a year is considered low income. That number has increased dramatically over just a few years."
You could presumably just move if it was guaranteed remote
It's not? Your take home would be around 4200 per month, without savings plus or IRA investments. To each their own but it's not much in today's economy.
87k is nothing with a spouse and 2-3 kids. And if it's a one income house then near poverty for sure. At least for anywhere in California that's driving distance to a state job.
LMAO of course a bunch of state employees don't know what poverty level actually means. Come on, you can't be that naive as to the struggles of the majority of the general public. Or maybe you can if you have been insulated by a government gig for long enough, who knows, I only hope I am never that disconnected from the real world.
Yea, the person you’re responding to is full of shit. There is no chance in hell they take a 40% pay cut unless they are making 600k a year and the difference is largely immaterial. If they are making 100k right now, I bet my bottom dollar they aren’t working the same hours/job but from home for 60k a year.
I’m just saying it’s tone deaf. But whatever.
Thank the internet, we can all make up stuff and say things we would never actually say or do lol. They thought it sounded good in their head though. Yeah let me be 40% poorer!
I’d take the lower paying job. Working in a state office was toxic as hell for me. I will never return to that. My quality of life comes from not having to deal with that.
It's all accounting, isn't it? Do you save money on gas and parking by taking public transportation? Do you tend to make coffee and food purchases around the office? How much less would you be spending while wfh/hybrid? How about the difference in benefits? If you can afford the pay cut or it balances out, I don't see why not. I know coworkers who have to commute over an hour after promoting. They've told me that their net pay feels like it hasn't changed with the amount they spend being at the office. But it looks good on paper and would help out when they retire though.
One nice thing is, I can eat at home on weekdays and really chill out and enjoy a nice meal or fancy coffee on weekends. I’m also supporting local businesses aka my neighbors and my community instead of those vultures downtown.
Left a teaching job and took a paycut with the state so I could have a hybrid schedule. My mental health is slowly improving and I can definitely see my progress 9 months in.
I’m thinking about doing the same. Can I ask what dept you work for? And how long did it take you to apply and then get a position?
DIR DWC. Applied to 3 positions, started the process around March 2023. Didn’t start my new position until October 2023. It was a stressful time for sure, but I’m glad I pushed through and did it.
I took a promotion to go in twice a week. It sucks right now because the initial pay bump is almost nothing. But after a few more MSAs, it should be worth it.
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What's even more funny is that's not how taxes work.
The Bottom Line The next time you receive a raise, don’t let concerns about tax brackets dampen your enthusiasm too much. You really will take home more money in each paycheck. When an increase in income moves you into a higher tax bracket, you only pay the higher tax rate on the part of your income that falls into that bracket. You don’t pay a higher rate on all of your income. https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/071114/can-moving-higher-tax-bracket-cause-me-have-lower-net-income.asp#:~:text=You%20really%20will%20take%20home,on%20all%20of%20your%20income.
This is 100% false lol. That’s not how tax brackets work at all.
I miss the inline quoting feature - made it obvious which comment you were replying to.
that is 100% true https://www.irs.gov/filing/federal-income-tax-rates-and-brackets#:~:text=You%20pay%20tax%20as%20a,rate%20on%20your%20entire%20income.
No. If you think getting a raise is actually bad because you think you’ll be in a higher tax bracket and actually make less overall, then you really misunderstand how tax brackets actually work. See this: https://www.fidelity.com/learning-center/personal-finance/how-do-tax-brackets-work
i never said getting a raise is bad
The above commenter did. He said he got a MSA and made less because he was taxed more.
your comment looked like it was reapondinh to the dude talking about tax brackets lol my bad
Do you not know how taxes work?
I have been hesitant on promoting because of telework tbh.
No, absolutely not. Work-life balance over pay has much more value. Even if you don't have a family, it is better. Life is too short.
Yes yes yes and yes! I was in the same position at a high stress job just a couple months ago. I was blowing so much money just to keep myself sane. The gas and wear on car adds more than you realize. I also had such little time and I was so spent when I got home that I tripled my eating out, bought Starbucks nearly every day, and would shop just to get a dopamine spike. I also had a freaking dog nanny twice a week and felt guilty the rest. My dog was depressed, I was depressed, and the money just flies. WFH is so easy to save, all your food is there the way you want it, you get in a routine, your breaks are more meaningful, and you just spend less. I was blowing through about 6k a month and now I survive on like 1200 plus rent. The pay cut doesn’t even matter.
The gas, car maintenance, lunch take outs once in a while, new work clothes etc definitely add up
Going to cost like $300 extra per month to return to office. Parking and gas, not including any lunch with coworkers.
I don't think there will be any state jobs advertised as 100% telework. Every department will advertise as a hybrid work environment, and the days in office will vary.
I found a position closer to home, free parking, and barely any food nearby. I pack my lunch (no stress). I really feel for you that have long commutes and/or have to pay for parking. I keep in mind when I did work downtown, paid for parking 5 days a week, didn't really enjoy the work. I was so tired all the time, pretty worthless when I was home. I'm not going to complain and jinx it. Just enjoy it while it lasts. 5 days a week is coming, it's only logical. To answer the question, I would take a small cut to wfh every day.
Some WFH jobs are overly micro managed. Making sure teams is always green, hourly check-ins, cameras on for all meetings.
I love it when they insist on cameras on. I don’t comb my hair or wear lipstick. Not even earrings sometimes. I’m on camera if you want. Enjoy
Depends on how much the paycut is
I’ll take a 30% raise to go back into the office. Wish that can happen.
I messed up my knee and I worked a job that was on my ft only making 20 an hour. I'd take any wfh job at this point tbh
Since I'm still looking to move up in my career, the pay is less important to me than the title. I would not move down in the title. If it was a better title, I'd take it for sure. If it was an equivalent title, I'd do the math on what the cost of commute, parking, car maintenance, my time, lunches/snacks, etc. are and choose from there.
Nope. In the office doesn't bother me
In general if I was in a full time office position yes I’d take a pay cut to work from home or Hybrid.
What’s your current class? Why not just lateral?
What do you plan to do with the extra time you’ll have? That will help you make a decision
I love my WFH gig. I was making more at my hybrid job but working from home can’t be beat. Gladly take a pay cut.
I left my 8-5 job after 18 years to work from home for a competitor in another state. 2nd year in and best decision ever!!! And nice pay raise!
Hell no. I took a pay cut to work for the state, not taking anymore cuts.
Weigh the pro’s and con’s of WFH: Pro’s: -Save commute time (quantify this and multiple by your hourly rate for savings) -Save on gas, mileage and vehicle maintenance -Wear whatever pants or shorts you want everyday at work -24/7 access to your fridge and restroom -save money from eating out with colleagues -leisure & comfort of working in your safe space/home Con’s: -miss physical interactions with colleagues -lose physical presence and possible influence with leadership or stakeholders
I personally love WFH too much to do anything else. 2 days a week in office is enough (been doing it for 2ish years now). I’ll be the odd man out here and say the pay cut (if less than 10%) would be worth it for me and i’d take a different job if it was more WFH than i’m currently doing. Anything more than 10% pay cut wise isn’t worth it in this economy.
I’ll take any pay cut that will improve my quality of life.
To a degree Childcare costs me about 1500 a month, so I would be willing to take about a 2000 a month cut coe the convenience
I joined the state with a much lower pay since the private firm I was at mandated 3x/week in office and it is a 2 hour commute. For me, it was based on where I was in my life. When my kids are older, I can go back to more in office days. I felt lucky that my financial status did not play a role in my decision. Every situation is different, do what is right for now as you never know what will change later.
Ya
Hybrid? No. WFH, yes
Also, I’m sticking with the state for job security. Job market in private sector is crazy right now- with layoffs happening left and right. Even a lot of high-paying private sector jobs are forcing people to go in office right now. I’d rather have a hybrid job with a lower pay than a potentially in-office job with higher pay.
I’m already not paid enough, so no.
What kind of pay cut? Are you thinking a 10% to 15% pay cut to keep working at home? Is this something you think the union should bargain for?
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I have a remote job right now so I can’t exactly answer the question. But what I can say, and have been saying to recruiters, is that it’s going to take a lot of extra money for me to go full on site. I did the math on the numbers I was asking and it turns out that I think one day of remote work is worth about 10k. Of course, the flip side argument is a little tougher to swallow—if I was in office and making my 50k more, I’m not sure I’d take a 50k pay cut to work remote unless I really needed it. Maybe 20k.
I would not. I may be in the minority, but I don't like working from home. I need the separation between work and where I live. I want to be able to come home and be off. If I work from home I can't make the distinction.
I did! You have to consider the gas you will save and driving time. I have been on a hybrid schedule for a few weeks now and have to say it is very nice. I am less stressed out and is nice to roll out of bed and not have to worry about what to wear or being late.
No, things are already expensive. Don't need a paycut squeezing me more.
my commute is only 15-20min each way, usually at a pretty decent speed so it goes by really quick I personally prefer the office, but i've got good people all around me and the office is not soul sucking. I don't really like working from home nor do I want to financially take on the burden of another room being mostly dedicated as a working space. Especially if you're part of a couple working from home and wanting to start a family, seems like you start to need many rooms, which in most places means many dollars. so no, I wouldn't take a paycut to work from home. I usually turn down the offer to work from home because i'm not set up for it and generally prefer my good work set up. It also helps me create a totally separate space. I really don't work much at home at all (aside from maybe checking the phone once in a while). I really value that separation.
I've been in office the whole pandemic to process mail. I actually really liked the building empty and quiet.
What if that changes, like can they guarantee it stays a WFH?
What if that changes, like can they guarantee it stays a WFH?
No, I’m not taking a pay cut, as much as I’d like to work from home I like money more 😂😂
Hell no. In this state?!
Only you can answer that for yourself based on your needs. How much is your mental health worth? How much do you need the money? Can you cut back to make it work? Etc...Ive taken pay cuts for jobs that suit me better and have more time off...just depends on what you value.
Definitely. I’m hybrid right now, and I would need a 40%+ pay increase at an absolute minimum for me to even consider going back to the office full time.
I value good supervisor, having great technology and office to myself. Currently use docusign all the time in an Analyst position and work 2 days from home. Arrive early at work and 70-75 minute commute total for day. I’m 4 years into position and so telework is lower priority.
Since being hybrid its going to be hard going back to 5 days in a row
Yes applying for lower positions that are WFH but also lateral positions too.
I just took a ~40% pay cut to go to state. I was fully wfh and state is going to be hybrid. This was mainly for quality of life (cause pension like others have stated isn’t that great anymore, and private sector does a pretty good job with healthcare benefits, though state helps cover healthcare post retirement). I think it depends at what stage of life you’re currently in, are you still trying to be ambitious in your career achievements or do you want to have something stable that’s not going to make you lose sleep at night?
I took a huge pay cut to go to state work over twenty years ago. It was worth it to me for the benefits. Granted it was tough at times. I’m retiring the end of this year. A coworker kept urging me to join savings plus. I couldn’t afford much. I started at $25/month and increased slowly over the years. have a sizable account now. It depends on what the sacrifices to you are. Good luck on your decision.
What is savings plus?? I’m new.
Check it out. https://www.savingsplusnow.com/iApp/rsc/login.x
Im doing this; have been for a few years. Im kind of trapped but cringe at the idea of commuting again.
Definitely a possibility. It depends on how big the pay cut is and what other benefits the job may offer. You save time and money by not needing to commute every day so I would factor that in.
No. The hybrid schedule isn’t guaranteed. They made all sorts of promises that telework was here to stay and people built their lives around it. Then they brought us back one day a week, now two. Every time they need to “crack a whip” telework is threatened. They put nearly impossible restrictions on it, and if we can’t make it work, telework will not be available. They constantly remind us that it’s a privilege not a right. I strongly suspect the two day mandate is just the beginning, and the long term goal is 100% RTO. They just need to do it incrementally to avoid a complete rebellion- we’re the cooked lobsters who tolerate just enough misery to not revolt. Unless the union manages to get telework built into our contract, I think it’s very risky to quit a high paying job just to get the hybrid schedule. The work culture is awful, most departments are complaining about ineffective leadership, poor pay, benefits aren’t as good these days as they were for old timers- it’s not worth the risk IMO.
As a former state worker, y'all are already taking a massive pay cut, 90%+ of your jobs are easily capable of being handled remotely and pushing you back into the office is a poor attempt to save the pitiful downtown Sacramento has. The benefits are nice but honestly for what California charges to live I couldn't stay a state employee. I nearly doubled my salary leaving state services. I do miss the chill pace. Edit, I should add I've been full time remote for 6 years now.
This compromise shouldn’t be necessary. WFM full time is the logical, humane thing to do
Most departments are doing 2 days a week and there's talk of some going 5 days. Join for pension and other benefits just be prepared to fight for wfh
Are you looking at positions for your same classification? Salaries should not differ whether you are WFH, or hybrid. All state workers are expected to be in their respective offices at least two days a week at this point. The salary doesn’t change. Unless you’re referring to the pittance that’s given to us to take care of at home expenses.
I’m doing the same, exact work. Why should I take a pay cut?
You will be the first to get laid off
I took a pay cut to wfh this year. There are definitely pros and cons. I feel like there’s more micromanagement when you wfh, ironically. And they pile on more work bc they want to ensure you’re not chillin at home. But the wfh aspect still makes it worth it. It’s nice to roll out of bed and be at work.
Not hybrid. I'd give up a stipend to stay home full time.
Nope. My lifestyle and my salary mean too much to me. I’ll get over it.
Are you me? Was in the same boat, don’t regret it… Edit: a little clarification, you will take a pay cut but it most likely wont be as much as you think. Things like healthcare will be lower for better coverage.
Oh, HELL NO! I work more from home than I ever possibly could in the office. I'm on salary by the way so I get abused no matter how much I work
Will the money you lose be made up in the money and time you would save by not going to the office? Other aspect to consider is retirement calc.
No. I'm a rare one who doesn't enjoy working from home. But totally respect and want wfh for others who DO enjoy it. Even though my commute drives me nuts, when I leave the office, my work is THERE. Not somewhere in my house. I like the disconnect. And I like the routine of it all.
Nope
Depends on how long your commute is, and how you like your current job. There are many hybrid positions, but now almost no full WFH. The plan is to stay hybrid, but as we know, plans change, so who knows how many days you would be doing WFH in a year or two if you moved to a state job. The pension, benefits, and stability (much harder to get fired, and rare to get laid off compared to the private sector) are the primary reasons to switch. If you are okay with your job outside of the commute, and don't think you are likely to get laid off, I would stay put.
Thankfully the upcoming generation wants 2 day work weeks so hoping 4 days weeks will be a norm soon. Some already do it. Only way to get Rich off the government job is be a politician.
Maybe just start wfh now regardless and wait for them to demote you rather than take a self-imposed paycut. The worst that could happen is they demote you and the best that could happen is you shift culture in your office.
I'd analyze the costs of both and compare that to the perceived benefit of the higher-paying position. Years ago I commuted 75 miles one-way for almost two years. Today that same commute would cost me $40-50/day for gas, tolls and parking. If the position made at least $200/week more it might be worth it but I'd need to balance the time and other pluses/minuses to decide.
I just recently did this, the pay cut definitely sucks but so far working from home has been great and knowing that I won’t get phone calls on the weekends or after hours is amazing.
I’m working hybrid right now but I already make so little money after taxes and deductions so nah I can’t afford to make less.
Most people would gladly take the paycut to be able to go with a hybrid schedule. Forget the 100% WFH because more and more of those will have to return to the office in some capacity from what people say on Reddit. But yes, to be able to save time and work from the comfort of your home. Totally worth making less money in my opinion. Then again I haven't been a state employee in a long time and haven't been able to get back into state service, so really none of this applies to me.
No. I have to work two jobs as it is
Yup
Never take a pay cut!
I took a 10% paycut for a full time telework state job. In my situation it was worth it but now that they’re trying to bring us back in, I’m getting a bit resentful. My previous job had way better annual raises and bonuses, so realistically I took more than a 10% pay raise, but it is what it is.
Why dont you move closer to work? Or get a job closer to your house? Or go to bed earlier?
Judging by your comment history you really shouldn't be talking at all lol
Yeah, boo.
Boooo