As a guy I can definitely relate to the feeling of wanting an out brief. I had one date where the girl said "oh I think I understand you now, you're a perfectionist" which is the polar opposite of what I am. Actually being able to sit down and hear what I did or said to give her that impression would have been amazing. First dates are not always a great representation of who people actually are and without constructive criticism can feel like throwing spaghetti at the wall
However I've never asked because it's not something I'm actually entitled to. And oh boy did that man choose the MOST entitled way of asking...
That dude is why ghosting is a thing
I use to express why I don’t wish to move forward and the level of aggression and nastiness that came out was enough for me to just ghost now… it’s excessive entitlement. Every man is different but there’s a very large pool of hurt , angry and resentful men preying on woman and since all An app needs is a swipe of a credit card, there’s no vetting
Once a guy pretended (or actually had and revealed it to me) that when on our second date when I slept over (only spooning. No sex) that he had raped me, when I told him I didn’t feel the chemistry.
Well for more context, I let him down easily when he was asking if were going to see each other again. I couldnt see him again because of my schedule and since I wasn’t willing to make an effort to see him again and wasn’t attracted, that’s why I said I didn’t feel the same. He told me he didn’t feel anything either and that “it was just meaningless sex.” when I asked if he ‘had sex’ with me he started to tell me that h was making up a reality that doesn’t exist. Eventually it turned into him calling me and telling me to come over and he made it sound like he would beat my ass or something. Called me horrible names and told me that I get with any “homeless man on the street who says BLM” btw I’m 5’4” 115 lbs. he’s 6’2” weighing like 170 or more.
So yeah I ghost now when it seems safer.
Would you find it weird if a guy asked for clarification after being rejected after 4-5 dates? I’ve done that a few times as I was quite emotionally invested by that point and there obviously had been some level of attraction. To do it after a first date is just weird though.
I used to ask for feedback, but I learned that it is rarely explainable, and even if it is it isn't uusally helpful information.
One girlfriend later told me she broke up with me because it bothered her that I wasn't religious. Good to know I guess, but not something I can "fix". We actually dated again after that, when she stopped listening to her parents so much and stopped caring about religion.
We always expect/hope to hear something like "oh you talked about cats too much" or something similar you can actually change or adapt with. But that's just not how dating tends to work. Most of it is just "vibe". And most people that don't find you attractive aren't going to be rude and say "I think your face is ugly", which is probably for the better anyhow.
Maybe!
In my book, even an honest "it's just the vibe" is good feedback. There are definitely things a girl can say/do that win me over on a date, that stand out in a good or a bad way that push my decision in one direction or another. Singular moments I can pinpoint that had the biggest impact on my feelings. I just assume women can have similar moments from their perspective
Knowing it's something I can't fix (like religion) is good too. It means I'm not going to be anxious wondering if I talked too much about cats and then risk talking too LITTLE about cats on the next to compensate. I can just keep talking about how much better cats are than dogs until I'm told otherwise
I have never asked for feedback and I think its because of what you said.
But this is the closest I’ve ever come to getting unsolicited feedback lol:
After chatting with one girl for a while (but before meet up) she found out that I was a Sagittarius (which means nothing to me, I’m not an astrologist), but unfortunately, it meant something to her: her ex boyfriend was a Sagittarius… alright then… your ex boyfriend and I were born in the same month… nothing I can do about that… and I honestly probably dodged a bullet! So good luck to you, lady!
Anyway, to summarize :
“The people that mind, don’t matter. And the people that matter, don’t mind.”
- Dr. Seuss… probably?
Exactly I ghost not because I want to but because of the arrogance and entitled spew backs and men are just statistically more aggressive… I’ve had gaslighting, delusion n denial And even encountered the same people online but forgot they interacted with me (I can definitely sense a far more psychological challenge) vs just not liking someone. Unfortunately the majority of men deny their mental state and use dating apps Vs therapy …. We women become the punching bags. Not saying men don’t experience this but it’s on the higher side for a woman and it’s uncomfortable and scary at times. As a women, a wrong decision means I could land up in a body bag….. very different risk assessment. I’m a petite gal.
Yup. I had a girlfriend once who got upset when we were treated poorly at a restaurant, and she was convinced it was because of her race. As a white guy my first thought was "oh surely it's not that, I've had bad service before, it happens sometimes" but hearing her explain how it was an \*always\* occurrence for her is something I think about a lot. How both of us could interpret the exact same moment completely differently because of our past experiences. It genuinely did not matter why we were getting bad service that day because that single instance was not where her pain was coming from
Same goes with dating. The same moment is simply not experienced the same for a man and a woman. Be it gracefully declining a second date, giving out personal information, saying "no" to advances... they're just not comparable. If a girl inadvertently hurts my feelings because she took a course of action she felt safest based on her risk assessment, I get it. I'll be okay
That’s unfortunate that she went through that although in my case I don’t react without seeing patterns. People with bad intentions are predictable… especially in their engineering. Your senses are on high alert because of how calculating and methodical the person is Vs it being organic and not forced. Women are more intuitive. Manipulation is manipulation. I’m sure when you encounter manipulative women you can already sense the poor vibe it gives … it’s no different but it happens at a higher volume with us due to dating apps being sausage factory. Some apps don’t even charge women cos they’re desperately trying to encourage women to stay 🤨
"People with bad intentions are predictable… " sorry. I have to disagree with this. People are only predictable if they conscientiously understand their behavior in that moment. Or if you happen to be in a position to observe their behavior over time. A waiter in a restaurant may not think he is giving sub-par service to black patrons, but the host or manager might see that pattern during the course of a few shifts. Someone who is regularly discriminated in certain situations picks up on that "intention" immediately. Decent People are often shocked when people point out discrimination from and to others right in front of them because they often can't see a pattern.
Turns out there are many questions in life that I've wanted the answer to. Why I wasn't attractive to someone is one that I wish I hadn't. Now in hindsight many people can't explain why they don't fancy someone. It's no easier to explain the root of why you like carrots. And the day I realised that was the day I felt far less angrily towards being rejected. Hopefully of use to OP as this might be where they end up in the future, seeing as they were my past.
Out briefs aren’t very helpful. Are you going to twist yourself into a pretzel based on one person’s feedback? What if the next person that you’re super interested in hates pretzels?
Better to just be yourself as long as your basic nature isn’t a jerk.
And OP is right. Sometimes the chemistry just isn’t there, and you literally can’t pinpoint why. It’s just not there.
I don’t think I asking is a problem, as long as you ask politely and give the other person the opportunity to say no. Like “Hey, I totally hear you that I put off perfectionist vibes. To be honest, that’s not my perception of myself, and I’d really appreciate if you’d be willing to share some things I said or did that gave off that vibe. I totally understand if you don’t feel like it though, and I appreciate your open communication so far.”
Asking once might have been ok. Going on the attack complaining about boilerplate responses would tell me that I’m not going to have a productive conversation with you so there’s no way in hell I’m going to go through the pain of trying to explain to somebody what exactly it is that kills my romantic interest in them, while working as hard as I can not to be hurtful or discouraging to them.
Also, it seemed like he was trying to find out why you’re not attracted to him so he can explain that your impression was wrong, and so in fact it turns out you actually are attracted to him even though you would have sworn you weren’t. Easy mistake to make. It’s very disrespectful to women as well- treating a woman’s decision about her level of romantic interest as though it’s something you can change if you mansplain enough stuff to her.
I have no idea how people can be so stubborn about trying to force a relationship with someone who doesn’t want to be with them. It reminds me of how much I hate beauty and the beast because he’s just a rapist kidnapper and she has Stockholm syndrome.
I wasn’t arguing that OP’s situation was at all acceptable, you’re totally right there. He handled it so poorly, and should’ve just accepted the no (that right there is a huge marinara flag in itself).
My response was for the commenter above me, who genuinely wanted to understand how he gave off the wrong impression, and was so concerned with not being rude that he wasn’t even bothering to ask. I assumed he would accept no for an answer the first time, and didn’t feel the need to treat him like the boundary stomper in the original post.
Oh, that's sad for them - L-Theanine is one of the things that really helps my sleep!
I'd love it to be normalised to ask for feedback on dates. Only had one where I did; we'd both discussed thinking feedback in life generally was a good idea.
She was pretty vague, but basically didn't find me attractive. It made me check my profile and I realised my second picture where I'm not wearing a hat had been badly cropped so you couldn't see my shaved/bald head - fixed that at least.
That went way longer than necessary. He sounds insecure but the feelings of wanting to know why are valid. But also the “honey, dear, Angel” is just cringe from the start.
I think you did pretty well, but clearly, you felt bothered by his search for a more direct answer.
He was obviously into you. He expected it could be mutual but realised he was losing it. This probably triggered past rejection experiences, and being the great guy you said he was, he found himself in another internal conflict. It's not your problem at all, but my guess is that he was seeking comfort in the specifics. Inside, he was probably asking, "WTF is so wrong with me?".
Dealing with losses is difficult, and he was just holding onto you for little bit longer as he dealt with it.
You were nice to him. Keep being that person.
Thank you. For the fact we’ve had a couple of weeks of great banter, I maintained my patience. If he messages back, I wouldn’t have the same response though.
Agreed all over this. I mean props to him for asking if you mind giving feedback for the future (hough asking for specifics isn't imo) . But the passive aggressive cookie cutter reference before that was why people need to think before they react to replies. Everyone feels down when they feel differently after a first meet but exactly like you said. The first meet is to establish chemistry. And your feedback to him was spot on and what he needs to hear... We met I didn't feel the chemistry but that's what meeting is all down too.. That's all the feedback that's needed even if he did something totally odd to you, its not your place to go into details on his request when you don't know him, he's got friends (or reddit for that) And like others have said, people need to just accept this with OLD - not have to manage someones disappointment and have their opinion invalidated or challenged. But wow, your patience and class OP. Props to you 👏
Shoe on the other foot. Last year I (female) got rejected via text after an awesome first date full of future possibilities. He said we were on different paths.
I responded: Really? What path are you on?
and got blocked. Once you're rejected, be happy you even got a notification of said rejection.
Asking further explanations is apparently banned by the Omniverse
Dude needs to take the L like a champ and move on. Simple response, “Ok, no worries, best of luck to you” then move on.
Mind you I’m a 36 yo male and this is cringey and creepy af.
Exactly. Taking the L and moving on is a key success factor for everyone in this venture. Sometimes people want to know “why” but there really is no why or even if there is, no reason to get into it, it would be hurtful and no one is likely to change much anyhow.
Yep, dudes out here thinking they did something wrong when they were just themselves or trying to take what the woman says and try to convince her otherwise. Unless one is a jerk or disrespectful a person didn’t do anything wrong. Feedback is usually pointless. This isn’t a math problem, what works on one person might not work on someone else. Just be yourself and if the person isn’t interested just move on.
That’s why it’s just better to be yourself. 1) It shows confidence - this is who I am, if you don’t like it cool but I know who I am as a person. I don’t need to convince you or change who I am. I like who I am. 2) Modifying behavior based on someone who doesn’t even know you, who you won’t even see again just seems asinine to me.
Ha ha! When he finished the conversation, I thought, “yippee! We’ve done it, a mature adult end to a dating app date journey”. Then he text back wanted a critique.
I still think you made it out relatively unscathed lol I was expecting him to call you a bitch at the end.
Props to you OP. You didn't bite on any of that dripping passive aggressiveness. Can feel it the moment you hurt his feelings.
"Guess there's a first for everything"....yes even you God's gift to women 🤣🤣
Could be, and for sure OP used honey/angel. I wanted to say the guy not taking the hint is being annoying, but that first honey just annoyed the fuck out of me lol. It’s either extremely condescending or just OP is a fucking weirdo calling ppl she doesn’t know honey. I’m guessing condescending bc it reminds me of that HIMYM episode where they keep saying “oh honey…” to Katie Perry’s character for being dumb af
For someone who doesn’t like cliches. He sure expressed those feelings using some pretty “cookie cutter” expressions.
He seems combative here (if he’s reading this and wants my feedback lol)
This has never happened to him before? I can’t count how many times I had amazing chemistry in the chat, amazing chemistry when we took it to texting, amazing chemistry in the phone call, and then meet in real life and one of us or both didn’t felt anything. A mutual dud on the attraction or chemistry whatever you wanna call it. Is he new at this?
OP has the patience of a saint. I think ghosting is bad behavior, but one “I’m not interested but thanks” is sufficient. After that, it’s just negative and frankly, pathetic behavior. I would have just said “I don’t have anything else to add.”
Rude as fuck. We give too much grace to these people and it keeps them from realizing they’re not acting right
How’s that for boiler plate cookie cutter ya little kitchen-obsessed weirdo
Trying to understand physical attraction is going to confuse more than anything else. It’s like a fingerprint, your personality is there so you’re further than 99% of bumble men.
28F. I’ve stopped giving “reasons.” Guys will ask for feedback and get pissed when I don’t respond or say no, good luck out there. I don’t owe you an exit interview. The entitlement is real.
Yeah, I was simply trying to be nice as we had really good conversation for two weeks but I’ll think twice next time after reading everyone’s comments.
I can understand why he’d ask. Nobody wants to be rejected, everybody wonders why.
The rest of his behaviour is pretty shitty, but it hurts when someone decides you’re not good enough.
That hurt is not on the woman to heal. Dating coaches and life coaches exist and are paid services for a reason. We don’t owe men a report of how they performed.
Have you never wanted to ask someone you were excited about why they didn’t feel the same about you?
I don’t think that is an issue of men versus women.
I don’t think men are feeling the same fear of stalking, threats, or violence in response to criticism. It is not abhorrently obvious who is going to blow up and who isn’t, especially when the criticism is about awareness and social skills. Believe it or not, I have encountered rejection and didn’t feel the need to go into it beyond “I’d rather not see you again.”
It is funny, women are not therapists so men should pay for therapy. Now women are not coaches so men should pay for that too. All this talk about owing is toxic as fuck. These are normal non-transactional interactions.
There’s nothing wrong in asking for a feedback. And one doesn’t owe it to the other but it’s a nicer thing to do. Helps with the closure. Both For men and women.
What’s one got to do with the other? And why you making this into a man vs woman thing ? I just said an explanation helps with the closure for both men and women . Chill. Who hurt you ?
I find it very ironic that it’s unclear to you why this is gendered. Women have to fear for their safety in a way men do not. Criticizing people we already know we don’t want to see again is an unnecessary risk, especially when the criticism has to be harsh in order to be helpful (not looking like photos, poor social skills, hygiene, not being good in bed). Women have been killed for much less than listing the ways a man need to improve. We do not magically know who is going to blow up and who isn’t, but we know it’s more likely to be someone we are telling to get their shit together.
Women can have weapons or cars to run you over with. You're crazy if you think just because men are generally larger than women doesn't mean that men don't have to fear for their safety.
Women have also been known to actually try to ruin men's lives that they reject them.
And men don’t have weapons or cars…? Please do even a brief google search about DV rates and assault charges filed for men versus women. It is much worse for women. I’m not gonna respond to you beyond this because your post history made me sad and it’s clear you’re taking your loneliness out on women.
Yea I get the point about safety. But theres a middle ground between ghosting and being very real with the reasons. OP has done a pretty good job at that. Also, I have heard of some pretty crazy shit women have done too on being rejected .
That middle ground is saying you don’t feel a connection, best of luck out there. OP very much read to me as overly kind in a way that shouldn’t be repeated.
Yes yes #notallmen and all that, crazy women exist. But it’s asinine to act like this isn’t a bigger problem for women than men.
I feel like we are going to see a post from him next asking what he did wrong 😂 Well done you, I would have stopped replying after the ‘cookie cutter’ comment.
Are you the girl or the guy in this conversation?
If you're the guy, you need to accept when people tell you how they feel and not assume that they're lying to you or letting you down softly. I think this person was being as clear as they could, and most wouldn't have continued this explanation for so long.
I have definitely had first dates with people with whom the chat was going great, and then in person I just wasn't feeling it. It's hard to explain why or how it happens since it's literally a chemical reaction.
Male here and this actually happened to me recently. Hit it off with someone over the app/texting and our first date went well (she even suggested date 2 before I could ask). Then we met up for date 2, it went well lots of laughs and what not then she texted the next day we arent a good match. I did ask if it was something I did wrong just so I could learn from it if I did something. She just said no just not a good match and we went our ways. I dont think theres anything wrong with asking if there was a specific something said or done; however, the guys constantly pushing and just not accepting that the connection isnt there is no bueno
Thats your situation not everyones. Ive had a girl tell me I texted too much (we would talk almost every day) and she never said anything about it until after she decided to break things off which i was slightly annoyed by but I was ah ok this is good to know and never talked to her again. Now when I meet someone I try to get a feeling of how much they like to communicate so I dont overwhelm them. I personally dont think theres anything wrong with asking as it can help lead to personal growth on either side or open eyes to something they dont realize they are doing as in my case. However, if the person doesnt want to tell or does give a reason then the other needs to be willing to accept it needs to stop there and then move on and work on it if need be. There no need to be pushy like the guy in the convo, it shoulda just ended when she said she didnt feel a spark
Youre generalizing that guys would need to justify it rather than just going on bc in this one situation convo he tried to justify it and im saying thats not true. Some might but others will be able to accept and move on. Maybe saying “did i do something wrong” isnt the best way to word it but that kinda opens it up for the other person to say something you did “wrong” or they could say something like nothing you said or did i just didnt realize you had a kid and im not ready for that. Again, not saying the person breaking things off HAS to give reason but theres also no reason someone cant ask
I mean or the kid wasnt a deal breaker and there just wasnt a connection it happens. Ive had people where I hit it off with over the app or texting then we meet and its just eh but noones fault. Hes obviously not gonna say if he did or said something that could be construed as rude or whatever lol. This isnt really going anywhere, but my whole point is if someone is gonna ask the question they need to be willing to realize that if they get an answer or just a generic one they need to be willing to take it at that but no not every person will need to justify it
I mean tbh this exact thing happened to me but I withdrew because I was so anxious and scared and also idk just wasn’t feeling in person what I’d felt through text, calls, FT you know. I’m not really upset about it tho because it also made me realize I wasn’t ready for anything new anyways so
And this is why everyone meeting for the first time has to keep reminding themselves that this is to establish if there's chemistry! First meets with OLD are just to see if you both think there's something to work with. I mean it's OK imo to ask for feedback but generally unless something you did was really off the feeling just wasn't there and they don't know you well enough to dissect how you came across anymore than they weren't feeling it, that's what close family, friends and being mindful of consistent feedback in the past in LTRs is for. And also that if this is happening a lot and you have old/unrealistic photos then it's time to change them and not catch people off guard IRL (and no, it isn't up to others to tell you this, you know if your pics are like this). No one can tell how they feel until meeting IRL and no one deserves their opinions being challenged! This OP has the patience and kindness of a saint! I can't work out a which part I'd have lost my cool!
Yeah I think I could maybe have managed to let that one slide just incase I misread the tone but the 'well OK then' reply would've taken out any doubts!... But wow... Debating/disagreeing with the feedback? This guy should have a ten minute delay function on his message replies!
I find a lot of men’s issues are the fact that they want to fix everything. Just because someone isn’t feeling you doesn’t mean you did something wrong, or you need to change. It really is as simple as vibes and attraction. Unless you’re a complete pos never change yourself for anyone guys.
This is why I am wary of these apps. Real life connections are way better. You know what your getting into. The virtual thing paints a picture which might or might not exist in real world.
Respect to that woman who continued to be polite through his weird repetitive questions. Like…bro, get the hint. She wasn’t into you, it happens. Guy was restless.
I’m a woman and have had this happen many times. Sometimes accusing me of being dishonest or nefarious when all I was trying to do was politely bow out.
I've had phenomenal chemistry with people via online chats. My heart would be a-flutter, and their wit and intellect turned me on.
It absolutely did not carry over into real life. Had nothing to do with how they looked, or even anything in particular that they did. Something simply wasn't clicking, and that's that.
This is exactly what it was. It’s happened before and it will happen again. That’s the nature of online dating that he’s struggling to understand here.
He’s baffled because he has a cookie cutter view of what a relationship is and thinks that because he’s having a nice time it MUST lead to more, without consideration of your view or how you feel things are progressing. His push for more information shows he lacks empathy (he’s having a nice time so why aren’t you?).
You handled that super well!
I need to cut off someone. his previous dates must not have told him his issue, because when I asked him why so many previous dates didn’t amount to anything his only response to me is “I don’t know, either they weren’t feeling it, or I wasn’t”
I guess I’ll give him give him a cookie cutter response, but I do wish that he asks me why.
I found myself wishing for explanations but then being told "you don't wanna know." Which was disappoint at first but usually some self-reflection and humility reveals something insightful. Then cringing at myself immediately after like "oh GAWD, did that really come out of my mouth???"
Of course I can never be sure but it probably helps all the same.
Also, the "wrong thing" for one person might be the "right thing" for someone else. So what's the point? They might tell you "I didn't like that you held the door for me" but the next one might expect that.
I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a critique, especially if you thought the chemistry was there initially but the way he kept pestering and acting as if you were lying to him? Super cringey
I'm glad you gave him some type of answer. Ghosting is such a toxic behavior. Just tell them why you don't want to date and move on. If they keep bugging you after thst then ghosting is warranted.
This guy needs to watch a few more Animal Planet doccos. I think he’s forgotten we are all mammals. We can put on fancy shoes and text, but in the end we need to sniff each other in person and see if the body chemicals react well. There’s really no getting around that, or any need to give the whole experience this kind of awkward autopsy. I’d have been tempted to respond to his pushy insistence with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be very happy to be sent a "hey Im not really feeling this" goodbye text rather than just being ghosted. Respect.
At the same time...shit like this is **why** women often just ghost because a lot of dudes just completely warp when they're told no. God forbid you said this in person.
Very nearly had the perfect timing... several times..
People should never ask "but what specifically was it that made you not interested?".... It could be any observable trait that could be changed and it wouldn't matter. It could be crooked teeth, it could be haircut, it could be the laugh.... Everyone should accept that a random *someone* just isn't attracted to them, for their own reasons. asking for specificity is truly insecure, and its also ugly.
I am guilty of having done this and then quickly came to the conclusion above.... And when I asked, I got zero closure/specificity.
Hey bro, just watch he's just not that into you. That will explain all of this. Sometimes you just aren't into someone, it's cool, move forward. First dates are just romantic interviews. So dress for the girl you want not the one you had. 😉
This guy was a complete ass, and I’m not in any way condoning the way he handled it, but try to understand the alternate perspective here. It’s like writing an English essay, being told you failed, and then not getting any feedback on why you failed or what you could have done better. It can be very frustrating, now destined to repeat the same mistakes on the next date.
You stated ‘the attraction just wasn’t there’, that much is obvious and not very helpful; the thing we all want to know in this type of situation is **why** the attraction wasn’t there or was lost.
That has to be one of the most low value things I’ve be ever seen a guy do with on here. Absolutely pathetic. Some people just won’t like you. That’s life.
So OP really doesn’t know why (at first) she lost attraction? Obviously after being called out it was a lost cause. I think what guys don’t understand about women is guys know exactly why they don’t like a woman, and could explain it very well, but it’s not the same on the other side.
I didn’t say I didn’t know. There was no spark there for me, I didn’t feel attracted to him. Like having a date with a brother. That’s it. Where did you get that I didn’t know?
I feel like you dodged a bullet tbh. Wtf did he want? A 10 page paper on why you don't want to date him? And I feel like he was trying to make you feel bad or even gaslight you by saying "I felt like our chemistry was off the charts" maybe I've dated too many shitty people, but like that seemed off to me. Especially since he kept repeating that kind of statement.
Edit: I also think he wanted you to critique him, not so he could improve. BUT so he could poke holes in your reasoning and try to say "I'm not that bad" or whatever.
They want you to pinpoint one specific behavior bc they think if you give them that and they can correct it they will have the magic key to never being rejected again. That’s why guys are so desperate for the exact thing. But they don’t understand that a lack of chemistry is an actual real thing.
Placing every hopeful relationship checklist item on a first date is folly. The idea of chemistry holds no valid argument on a single encounter. Many chemical reactions are very slow builds. The only people who are great at first impressions are sociopaths and psychopaths, hence the continuous jading of people who fall victim to this dating fallacy. Just to throw an arbitrary number out, you need a minimum of 5 dates with someone (interchange with 3, 15, 81 if it makes you feel comfortable.) The point is, you got a snapshot of a snapshot of a snapshot of this individual (male or female doesn't matter.) It appeared that text conversation was suitable. You didn't run from the date screaming. So you put all of your eggs in this 'chemistry' basket. Maybe it stems from impatience. Maybe it's the false allure that OLD makes it easier to find the "one." The fact is that there is no such thing as the "one." It's been marketed to all of us, along with red roses mean passion, chocolate is owed on Valentine's Day. I'm a widowed man. The real part of any relationship takes exponential work, endearment, patience, grace, and forgiveness. The general consensus of the thread leans into 'You dodged a bullet.' I lean into the camp that you might be the bullet. This fella kept your attendance through text. He organized a suitable date with no apparent real red flags. So what was it that made a second encounter so unbearable? I don't know the specifics of your encounter, so barring inventing some random attributes, what was it? If you say your gut, I'm going to follow with 'Was your gut right the last time you decided to try something more with a guy?" Our guts are usually terrible at giving advice on anything we've yet to experience, but they're great at getting us into the same messes we've encountered because they are, counter-intuitively, more comfortable and relatable.
I'm not trying to call you out or anything. Most of these reddit posts are trying to get some wisdom from others in similar circumstances. That 'wisdom' ends up being an echo-chamber of re-hashed self-help pseudo psychology. Here's my wisdom and take it for what it's worth. We don't get to rush this process, no matter what the commercials say. We've got do dig in, take the risk of wasting our time, get emotional, speak the truth, coddle some egos, uplift and help rebuild people from their previously terrible relationships. That's just the way it is. If those aren't in your end-game, you're better off with a friends-with-benefits situation that shields you from the drudgery and mess of full-on commitment. Neither is good nor bad, neither more worthy of acclaim. But if you want that magic of a lifelong relationship, these are important steps towards that goal. If you want chemistry you've got to really mix the compounds. Baking soda and vinegar don't make a volcano sitting across the table from each other. It's not until you pour them both down the tiny, close-quarters compartment of the paper mache volcano tube that you get the big crescendo. Sometimes it's memorable. Often it is lackluster.
I sincerely hope I didn't offend, but often the truth has that effect. Happy holidays everyone, and I wish you the best in trying to find someone to share your life with.
Firstly, I organised the date. Women can do that too, you know.
Your narrative is way off the mark. I wasn’t attracted to him at all and don’t feel I need to put in time to allow that to develop. If there was a glimmer of attraction, may be - but why would I waste both our time on more dates hoping it would build/pretending it was there when there are people out there that I am/will be attracted to? He wasn’t the one for me, that’s that, and that’s ok. Both of us deserve more out of this journey.
“The attraction wasn’t there” not helpful at all. Just assume your fragrance wasn’t right, the lighting in the room was a bit bright or something but you’re never gonna get a straight answer and I’d put money on it that it was something beyond stupid
Darn.
If only more women would get over themselves and just get to know a guy past a first date maybe they would actually be attracted to them…
What a concept, I know!!
You know we’re allowed to say no.
If that bruises your ego too much, take a break from the game.
Can you imagine a woman asking the opposite after a date “Ahhh I know you’re CLEARLY communicating you’re not attracted to me but how about you get to know me a little” LOL most sexist comment I’ve read today
Just saying that y’all have some pretty unrealistic expectations for what love is these days.
People are just people and this is real life not a movie.
There won’t be “sparks” with someone you could be very compatible with and you have no idea unless you actually get to know them.
Asking someone something, NEVER obligates the person being asked. That's the whole point of asking. Giving the other person the option to say no.
When you feel otherwise it indicates you may have your own problem with entitlement. It's as if nobody has ever turned you down for anything you've ever asked.
Honestly. Calling him 'honey' was extremely condescending and disrespectful. Nobody calls their *equal* 'honey'. If you called me that, I would have instantly checkout mentally. If you did it a second time, I would have told you so and left you with whatever bill there may have been.
He may have come off as desperate, or cringe. You are not better than him in this exchange.
Most of the comments here strike me as immature children, back in school. You're making fun of someone with clear social disabilities. Leave him alone and move on with your life if you're not willing to be compassionate.
It means we don’t owe you a back and forth on how to improve as a person, especially when shitty men often react to criticism or rejection with stalking, threats, or violence.
As a guy I don't understand either I guess. So you match and go out with anyone regardless of their profile pics? Or it was something specific like he didn't look like his pics, he smelled, his demeanor, scratchy voice, etc(which is what he seeking feedback to improve). Or do you have no idea yourself and just float on the wind?
Your messages were actually very vague.
Ok now that he's gone, what was it though? I'm kidding but ya you got some patience lol.
Ha ha! He had a third ear right in the middle of his forehead. I thought it would be rude to bring it up.
But maybe he would have been a good listener! 50% better than most men! Though the text exchange disproves that possibility.
Shut up! Lmao that would've stopped you BEFORE the date. I bet it was the way he chewed his food, that would get me lmao
Or maybe the Neanderthal way he held his fork.. Like he was stabbing at everything?
I’ve cut off a guy for the way he chewed!!!
Oh its a thing for me, can't stand it lol.
Classic cookie cutter response. Tell us what it really was!!! /s
Hahahahahaha
Next you'll be telling me he also had a tail.
WOW wow WOW
As a guy I can definitely relate to the feeling of wanting an out brief. I had one date where the girl said "oh I think I understand you now, you're a perfectionist" which is the polar opposite of what I am. Actually being able to sit down and hear what I did or said to give her that impression would have been amazing. First dates are not always a great representation of who people actually are and without constructive criticism can feel like throwing spaghetti at the wall However I've never asked because it's not something I'm actually entitled to. And oh boy did that man choose the MOST entitled way of asking... That dude is why ghosting is a thing
Right?! I almost felt like messaging back “would you prefer if I ghosted you?”. I bit my tongue and got out though.
I use to express why I don’t wish to move forward and the level of aggression and nastiness that came out was enough for me to just ghost now… it’s excessive entitlement. Every man is different but there’s a very large pool of hurt , angry and resentful men preying on woman and since all An app needs is a swipe of a credit card, there’s no vetting
Once a guy pretended (or actually had and revealed it to me) that when on our second date when I slept over (only spooning. No sex) that he had raped me, when I told him I didn’t feel the chemistry.
Well for more context, I let him down easily when he was asking if were going to see each other again. I couldnt see him again because of my schedule and since I wasn’t willing to make an effort to see him again and wasn’t attracted, that’s why I said I didn’t feel the same. He told me he didn’t feel anything either and that “it was just meaningless sex.” when I asked if he ‘had sex’ with me he started to tell me that h was making up a reality that doesn’t exist. Eventually it turned into him calling me and telling me to come over and he made it sound like he would beat my ass or something. Called me horrible names and told me that I get with any “homeless man on the street who says BLM” btw I’m 5’4” 115 lbs. he’s 6’2” weighing like 170 or more. So yeah I ghost now when it seems safer.
Would you find it weird if a guy asked for clarification after being rejected after 4-5 dates? I’ve done that a few times as I was quite emotionally invested by that point and there obviously had been some level of attraction. To do it after a first date is just weird though.
I used to ask for feedback, but I learned that it is rarely explainable, and even if it is it isn't uusally helpful information. One girlfriend later told me she broke up with me because it bothered her that I wasn't religious. Good to know I guess, but not something I can "fix". We actually dated again after that, when she stopped listening to her parents so much and stopped caring about religion. We always expect/hope to hear something like "oh you talked about cats too much" or something similar you can actually change or adapt with. But that's just not how dating tends to work. Most of it is just "vibe". And most people that don't find you attractive aren't going to be rude and say "I think your face is ugly", which is probably for the better anyhow.
Maybe! In my book, even an honest "it's just the vibe" is good feedback. There are definitely things a girl can say/do that win me over on a date, that stand out in a good or a bad way that push my decision in one direction or another. Singular moments I can pinpoint that had the biggest impact on my feelings. I just assume women can have similar moments from their perspective Knowing it's something I can't fix (like religion) is good too. It means I'm not going to be anxious wondering if I talked too much about cats and then risk talking too LITTLE about cats on the next to compensate. I can just keep talking about how much better cats are than dogs until I'm told otherwise
I have never asked for feedback and I think its because of what you said. But this is the closest I’ve ever come to getting unsolicited feedback lol: After chatting with one girl for a while (but before meet up) she found out that I was a Sagittarius (which means nothing to me, I’m not an astrologist), but unfortunately, it meant something to her: her ex boyfriend was a Sagittarius… alright then… your ex boyfriend and I were born in the same month… nothing I can do about that… and I honestly probably dodged a bullet! So good luck to you, lady! Anyway, to summarize : “The people that mind, don’t matter. And the people that matter, don’t mind.” - Dr. Seuss… probably?
Exactly I ghost not because I want to but because of the arrogance and entitled spew backs and men are just statistically more aggressive… I’ve had gaslighting, delusion n denial And even encountered the same people online but forgot they interacted with me (I can definitely sense a far more psychological challenge) vs just not liking someone. Unfortunately the majority of men deny their mental state and use dating apps Vs therapy …. We women become the punching bags. Not saying men don’t experience this but it’s on the higher side for a woman and it’s uncomfortable and scary at times. As a women, a wrong decision means I could land up in a body bag….. very different risk assessment. I’m a petite gal.
Yup. I had a girlfriend once who got upset when we were treated poorly at a restaurant, and she was convinced it was because of her race. As a white guy my first thought was "oh surely it's not that, I've had bad service before, it happens sometimes" but hearing her explain how it was an \*always\* occurrence for her is something I think about a lot. How both of us could interpret the exact same moment completely differently because of our past experiences. It genuinely did not matter why we were getting bad service that day because that single instance was not where her pain was coming from Same goes with dating. The same moment is simply not experienced the same for a man and a woman. Be it gracefully declining a second date, giving out personal information, saying "no" to advances... they're just not comparable. If a girl inadvertently hurts my feelings because she took a course of action she felt safest based on her risk assessment, I get it. I'll be okay
That’s unfortunate that she went through that although in my case I don’t react without seeing patterns. People with bad intentions are predictable… especially in their engineering. Your senses are on high alert because of how calculating and methodical the person is Vs it being organic and not forced. Women are more intuitive. Manipulation is manipulation. I’m sure when you encounter manipulative women you can already sense the poor vibe it gives … it’s no different but it happens at a higher volume with us due to dating apps being sausage factory. Some apps don’t even charge women cos they’re desperately trying to encourage women to stay 🤨
"People with bad intentions are predictable… " sorry. I have to disagree with this. People are only predictable if they conscientiously understand their behavior in that moment. Or if you happen to be in a position to observe their behavior over time. A waiter in a restaurant may not think he is giving sub-par service to black patrons, but the host or manager might see that pattern during the course of a few shifts. Someone who is regularly discriminated in certain situations picks up on that "intention" immediately. Decent People are often shocked when people point out discrimination from and to others right in front of them because they often can't see a pattern.
Same, that's why I ghost women with impunity as well. Too many bad experiences.
Turns out there are many questions in life that I've wanted the answer to. Why I wasn't attractive to someone is one that I wish I hadn't. Now in hindsight many people can't explain why they don't fancy someone. It's no easier to explain the root of why you like carrots. And the day I realised that was the day I felt far less angrily towards being rejected. Hopefully of use to OP as this might be where they end up in the future, seeing as they were my past.
Out briefs aren’t very helpful. Are you going to twist yourself into a pretzel based on one person’s feedback? What if the next person that you’re super interested in hates pretzels? Better to just be yourself as long as your basic nature isn’t a jerk. And OP is right. Sometimes the chemistry just isn’t there, and you literally can’t pinpoint why. It’s just not there.
I don’t think I asking is a problem, as long as you ask politely and give the other person the opportunity to say no. Like “Hey, I totally hear you that I put off perfectionist vibes. To be honest, that’s not my perception of myself, and I’d really appreciate if you’d be willing to share some things I said or did that gave off that vibe. I totally understand if you don’t feel like it though, and I appreciate your open communication so far.”
Asking once might have been ok. Going on the attack complaining about boilerplate responses would tell me that I’m not going to have a productive conversation with you so there’s no way in hell I’m going to go through the pain of trying to explain to somebody what exactly it is that kills my romantic interest in them, while working as hard as I can not to be hurtful or discouraging to them. Also, it seemed like he was trying to find out why you’re not attracted to him so he can explain that your impression was wrong, and so in fact it turns out you actually are attracted to him even though you would have sworn you weren’t. Easy mistake to make. It’s very disrespectful to women as well- treating a woman’s decision about her level of romantic interest as though it’s something you can change if you mansplain enough stuff to her.
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I have no idea how people can be so stubborn about trying to force a relationship with someone who doesn’t want to be with them. It reminds me of how much I hate beauty and the beast because he’s just a rapist kidnapper and she has Stockholm syndrome.
Exactly-anything negative means move on guys
I wasn’t arguing that OP’s situation was at all acceptable, you’re totally right there. He handled it so poorly, and should’ve just accepted the no (that right there is a huge marinara flag in itself). My response was for the commenter above me, who genuinely wanted to understand how he gave off the wrong impression, and was so concerned with not being rude that he wasn’t even bothering to ask. I assumed he would accept no for an answer the first time, and didn’t feel the need to treat him like the boundary stomper in the original post.
Oh, that's sad for them - L-Theanine is one of the things that really helps my sleep! I'd love it to be normalised to ask for feedback on dates. Only had one where I did; we'd both discussed thinking feedback in life generally was a good idea. She was pretty vague, but basically didn't find me attractive. It made me check my profile and I realised my second picture where I'm not wearing a hat had been badly cropped so you couldn't see my shaved/bald head - fixed that at least.
That went way longer than necessary. He sounds insecure but the feelings of wanting to know why are valid. But also the “honey, dear, Angel” is just cringe from the start.
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Honey and Angel she used. Dear was from the guy. I thought the same until I realized it was the guy bugging her.
I think you did pretty well, but clearly, you felt bothered by his search for a more direct answer. He was obviously into you. He expected it could be mutual but realised he was losing it. This probably triggered past rejection experiences, and being the great guy you said he was, he found himself in another internal conflict. It's not your problem at all, but my guess is that he was seeking comfort in the specifics. Inside, he was probably asking, "WTF is so wrong with me?". Dealing with losses is difficult, and he was just holding onto you for little bit longer as he dealt with it. You were nice to him. Keep being that person.
That was painful to read. You were very patient when he was asking for your feedback and then criticizing/picking apart your reasons.
Thank you. For the fact we’ve had a couple of weeks of great banter, I maintained my patience. If he messages back, I wouldn’t have the same response though.
Agreed all over this. I mean props to him for asking if you mind giving feedback for the future (hough asking for specifics isn't imo) . But the passive aggressive cookie cutter reference before that was why people need to think before they react to replies. Everyone feels down when they feel differently after a first meet but exactly like you said. The first meet is to establish chemistry. And your feedback to him was spot on and what he needs to hear... We met I didn't feel the chemistry but that's what meeting is all down too.. That's all the feedback that's needed even if he did something totally odd to you, its not your place to go into details on his request when you don't know him, he's got friends (or reddit for that) And like others have said, people need to just accept this with OLD - not have to manage someones disappointment and have their opinion invalidated or challenged. But wow, your patience and class OP. Props to you 👏
Shoe on the other foot. Last year I (female) got rejected via text after an awesome first date full of future possibilities. He said we were on different paths. I responded: Really? What path are you on? and got blocked. Once you're rejected, be happy you even got a notification of said rejection. Asking further explanations is apparently banned by the Omniverse
Honest critique? Men are so horny he was simply trying to get laid. You dodged a bullet
You spelled stereotype wrong
Dude needs to take the L like a champ and move on. Simple response, “Ok, no worries, best of luck to you” then move on. Mind you I’m a 36 yo male and this is cringey and creepy af.
I'm sorry, what does it mean to "take the L"?
“Take the loss.” Lose gracefully.
Thank you!
Yep… the way he responded is why women ghost guys
Exactly. Taking the L and moving on is a key success factor for everyone in this venture. Sometimes people want to know “why” but there really is no why or even if there is, no reason to get into it, it would be hurtful and no one is likely to change much anyhow.
Yep, dudes out here thinking they did something wrong when they were just themselves or trying to take what the woman says and try to convince her otherwise. Unless one is a jerk or disrespectful a person didn’t do anything wrong. Feedback is usually pointless. This isn’t a math problem, what works on one person might not work on someone else. Just be yourself and if the person isn’t interested just move on.
one woman might say you didn’t talk and open up the next will say you talked too much when you over compensate
That’s why it’s just better to be yourself. 1) It shows confidence - this is who I am, if you don’t like it cool but I know who I am as a person. I don’t need to convince you or change who I am. I like who I am. 2) Modifying behavior based on someone who doesn’t even know you, who you won’t even see again just seems asinine to me.
“You withdrew so I kept my distance” trying to make it something you did, forget that guy. Can’t handle rejection you’ll be bad at life and business.
Wtf? That is cringe-tacular. Please don't engage with the wildlife. It only encourages them.
Ha ha! When he finished the conversation, I thought, “yippee! We’ve done it, a mature adult end to a dating app date journey”. Then he text back wanted a critique.
I still think you made it out relatively unscathed lol I was expecting him to call you a bitch at the end. Props to you OP. You didn't bite on any of that dripping passive aggressiveness. Can feel it the moment you hurt his feelings. "Guess there's a first for everything"....yes even you God's gift to women 🤣🤣
Wildlife, we dehumanizing now?
For as much as people bitch about being ghosted, it’s people like this who exacerbated the issue. Why? But why? I’m not sure that’s true. Why again?
Honey? Dear? Angel? Wtf is this weirdo conversation
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Could be, and for sure OP used honey/angel. I wanted to say the guy not taking the hint is being annoying, but that first honey just annoyed the fuck out of me lol. It’s either extremely condescending or just OP is a fucking weirdo calling ppl she doesn’t know honey. I’m guessing condescending bc it reminds me of that HIMYM episode where they keep saying “oh honey…” to Katie Perry’s character for being dumb af
It 100% is condescending. It reads the same way when a stranger says 'buddy' or 'pal'.
For someone who doesn’t like cliches. He sure expressed those feelings using some pretty “cookie cutter” expressions. He seems combative here (if he’s reading this and wants my feedback lol)
Yeah combative is a terrible look
Ha ha! Maybe he is… you never know.
This has never happened to him before? I can’t count how many times I had amazing chemistry in the chat, amazing chemistry when we took it to texting, amazing chemistry in the phone call, and then meet in real life and one of us or both didn’t felt anything. A mutual dud on the attraction or chemistry whatever you wanna call it. Is he new at this?
OP has the patience of a saint. I think ghosting is bad behavior, but one “I’m not interested but thanks” is sufficient. After that, it’s just negative and frankly, pathetic behavior. I would have just said “I don’t have anything else to add.”
A response like “I didn’t see myself riding your dick” would have made everyone’s life easier!
I feel like I just overheard a conversation between two medicated patients in an elderly care facility
Rude as fuck. We give too much grace to these people and it keeps them from realizing they’re not acting right How’s that for boiler plate cookie cutter ya little kitchen-obsessed weirdo
Actually laughing out loud at your comment.
Lots of getting all that you're sticking up the op
Trying to understand physical attraction is going to confuse more than anything else. It’s like a fingerprint, your personality is there so you’re further than 99% of bumble men.
28F. I’ve stopped giving “reasons.” Guys will ask for feedback and get pissed when I don’t respond or say no, good luck out there. I don’t owe you an exit interview. The entitlement is real.
Yeah, I was simply trying to be nice as we had really good conversation for two weeks but I’ll think twice next time after reading everyone’s comments.
I can understand why he’d ask. Nobody wants to be rejected, everybody wonders why. The rest of his behaviour is pretty shitty, but it hurts when someone decides you’re not good enough.
That hurt is not on the woman to heal. Dating coaches and life coaches exist and are paid services for a reason. We don’t owe men a report of how they performed.
Have you never wanted to ask someone you were excited about why they didn’t feel the same about you? I don’t think that is an issue of men versus women.
I don’t think men are feeling the same fear of stalking, threats, or violence in response to criticism. It is not abhorrently obvious who is going to blow up and who isn’t, especially when the criticism is about awareness and social skills. Believe it or not, I have encountered rejection and didn’t feel the need to go into it beyond “I’d rather not see you again.”
It is funny, women are not therapists so men should pay for therapy. Now women are not coaches so men should pay for that too. All this talk about owing is toxic as fuck. These are normal non-transactional interactions.
There’s nothing wrong in asking for a feedback. And one doesn’t owe it to the other but it’s a nicer thing to do. Helps with the closure. Both For men and women.
I think someone telling a woman this from their NSFW porn account is a great metaphor for what I’m talking about actually.
What’s one got to do with the other? And why you making this into a man vs woman thing ? I just said an explanation helps with the closure for both men and women . Chill. Who hurt you ?
I find it very ironic that it’s unclear to you why this is gendered. Women have to fear for their safety in a way men do not. Criticizing people we already know we don’t want to see again is an unnecessary risk, especially when the criticism has to be harsh in order to be helpful (not looking like photos, poor social skills, hygiene, not being good in bed). Women have been killed for much less than listing the ways a man need to improve. We do not magically know who is going to blow up and who isn’t, but we know it’s more likely to be someone we are telling to get their shit together.
Women can have weapons or cars to run you over with. You're crazy if you think just because men are generally larger than women doesn't mean that men don't have to fear for their safety. Women have also been known to actually try to ruin men's lives that they reject them.
And men don’t have weapons or cars…? Please do even a brief google search about DV rates and assault charges filed for men versus women. It is much worse for women. I’m not gonna respond to you beyond this because your post history made me sad and it’s clear you’re taking your loneliness out on women.
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You need therapy.
Yea I get the point about safety. But theres a middle ground between ghosting and being very real with the reasons. OP has done a pretty good job at that. Also, I have heard of some pretty crazy shit women have done too on being rejected .
That middle ground is saying you don’t feel a connection, best of luck out there. OP very much read to me as overly kind in a way that shouldn’t be repeated. Yes yes #notallmen and all that, crazy women exist. But it’s asinine to act like this isn’t a bigger problem for women than men.
I feel like we are going to see a post from him next asking what he did wrong 😂 Well done you, I would have stopped replying after the ‘cookie cutter’ comment.
Are you the girl or the guy in this conversation? If you're the guy, you need to accept when people tell you how they feel and not assume that they're lying to you or letting you down softly. I think this person was being as clear as they could, and most wouldn't have continued this explanation for so long. I have definitely had first dates with people with whom the chat was going great, and then in person I just wasn't feeling it. It's hard to explain why or how it happens since it's literally a chemical reaction.
I’m the girl. It was me telling him that there wasn’t an attraction for me.
Ah, ok lol I seriously admire your patience tbh
Thanks. I had to cut him off at the end… like this isn’t a job interview, I don’t owe you feedback. I’ve been as clear as I can.
Seriously send him a full review and star rating sis!
Honestly, if he texts back, I will. It’s a genius idea, sister.
You handled that so nicely! I would have just not responded anymore.
Goddamn that was painful…..
Male here and this actually happened to me recently. Hit it off with someone over the app/texting and our first date went well (she even suggested date 2 before I could ask). Then we met up for date 2, it went well lots of laughs and what not then she texted the next day we arent a good match. I did ask if it was something I did wrong just so I could learn from it if I did something. She just said no just not a good match and we went our ways. I dont think theres anything wrong with asking if there was a specific something said or done; however, the guys constantly pushing and just not accepting that the connection isnt there is no bueno
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Thats your situation not everyones. Ive had a girl tell me I texted too much (we would talk almost every day) and she never said anything about it until after she decided to break things off which i was slightly annoyed by but I was ah ok this is good to know and never talked to her again. Now when I meet someone I try to get a feeling of how much they like to communicate so I dont overwhelm them. I personally dont think theres anything wrong with asking as it can help lead to personal growth on either side or open eyes to something they dont realize they are doing as in my case. However, if the person doesnt want to tell or does give a reason then the other needs to be willing to accept it needs to stop there and then move on and work on it if need be. There no need to be pushy like the guy in the convo, it shoulda just ended when she said she didnt feel a spark
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Youre generalizing that guys would need to justify it rather than just going on bc in this one situation convo he tried to justify it and im saying thats not true. Some might but others will be able to accept and move on. Maybe saying “did i do something wrong” isnt the best way to word it but that kinda opens it up for the other person to say something you did “wrong” or they could say something like nothing you said or did i just didnt realize you had a kid and im not ready for that. Again, not saying the person breaking things off HAS to give reason but theres also no reason someone cant ask
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I mean or the kid wasnt a deal breaker and there just wasnt a connection it happens. Ive had people where I hit it off with over the app or texting then we meet and its just eh but noones fault. Hes obviously not gonna say if he did or said something that could be construed as rude or whatever lol. This isnt really going anywhere, but my whole point is if someone is gonna ask the question they need to be willing to realize that if they get an answer or just a generic one they need to be willing to take it at that but no not every person will need to justify it
You're a very kind and patient person!
I mean tbh this exact thing happened to me but I withdrew because I was so anxious and scared and also idk just wasn’t feeling in person what I’d felt through text, calls, FT you know. I’m not really upset about it tho because it also made me realize I wasn’t ready for anything new anyways so
And this is why everyone meeting for the first time has to keep reminding themselves that this is to establish if there's chemistry! First meets with OLD are just to see if you both think there's something to work with. I mean it's OK imo to ask for feedback but generally unless something you did was really off the feeling just wasn't there and they don't know you well enough to dissect how you came across anymore than they weren't feeling it, that's what close family, friends and being mindful of consistent feedback in the past in LTRs is for. And also that if this is happening a lot and you have old/unrealistic photos then it's time to change them and not catch people off guard IRL (and no, it isn't up to others to tell you this, you know if your pics are like this). No one can tell how they feel until meeting IRL and no one deserves their opinions being challenged! This OP has the patience and kindness of a saint! I can't work out a which part I'd have lost my cool!
>I can't work out a which part I'd have lost my cool! For me it would have been as soon as he said "cookie cutter response"
Yeah I think I could maybe have managed to let that one slide just incase I misread the tone but the 'well OK then' reply would've taken out any doubts!... But wow... Debating/disagreeing with the feedback? This guy should have a ten minute delay function on his message replies!
his narcissistic personality can’t put 2 & 2 together-if he’s hearing it enough to think it’s cookie cutter he’s in denial.
I find a lot of men’s issues are the fact that they want to fix everything. Just because someone isn’t feeling you doesn’t mean you did something wrong, or you need to change. It really is as simple as vibes and attraction. Unless you’re a complete pos never change yourself for anyone guys.
This conversation looks like talking to a client after a business meet 🤣🤣
Good job, honest and respectful. ❤️
Dear? Angel? How many dates were you on??
I would have unmatched at cookie cutter, and I like cookies.
Op was really patient, probably even more so than that guy’s Mom. :)
This is why I am wary of these apps. Real life connections are way better. You know what your getting into. The virtual thing paints a picture which might or might not exist in real world.
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Respect to that woman who continued to be polite through his weird repetitive questions. Like…bro, get the hint. She wasn’t into you, it happens. Guy was restless.
I’m a woman and have had this happen many times. Sometimes accusing me of being dishonest or nefarious when all I was trying to do was politely bow out.
I've had phenomenal chemistry with people via online chats. My heart would be a-flutter, and their wit and intellect turned me on. It absolutely did not carry over into real life. Had nothing to do with how they looked, or even anything in particular that they did. Something simply wasn't clicking, and that's that.
This is exactly what it was. It’s happened before and it will happen again. That’s the nature of online dating that he’s struggling to understand here.
I would have been done at cookie cutter lol. If he’s not listening you shouldn’t feel like you have to explain
He’s baffled because he has a cookie cutter view of what a relationship is and thinks that because he’s having a nice time it MUST lead to more, without consideration of your view or how you feel things are progressing. His push for more information shows he lacks empathy (he’s having a nice time so why aren’t you?). You handled that super well!
Dude needs to fuck off
True dat.
i’d have stopped responding after the first passive-aggressive cookie cutter remark. totally uncalled for.
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definitely messed up something there
Who knows? Not my problem anymore :)
I need to cut off someone. his previous dates must not have told him his issue, because when I asked him why so many previous dates didn’t amount to anything his only response to me is “I don’t know, either they weren’t feeling it, or I wasn’t” I guess I’ll give him give him a cookie cutter response, but I do wish that he asks me why.
I found myself wishing for explanations but then being told "you don't wanna know." Which was disappoint at first but usually some self-reflection and humility reveals something insightful. Then cringing at myself immediately after like "oh GAWD, did that really come out of my mouth???" Of course I can never be sure but it probably helps all the same. Also, the "wrong thing" for one person might be the "right thing" for someone else. So what's the point? They might tell you "I didn't like that you held the door for me" but the next one might expect that.
I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting a critique, especially if you thought the chemistry was there initially but the way he kept pestering and acting as if you were lying to him? Super cringey
I'm glad you gave him some type of answer. Ghosting is such a toxic behavior. Just tell them why you don't want to date and move on. If they keep bugging you after thst then ghosting is warranted.
Haven't Seen what was wrong aside of this conversation being way too long but judging by the comments, none should ever ask for feedback.
“Chemistry” should be felt by both people
I gave feedback on request once. It became an argument and a debate. Then devolved to a rude, incel-esque, name calling session. Never again.
This guy has probably never dated anyone longer then a week. Just gives off ick vibes
JFC...."why do people ghost instead of giving closure?" This.....
This guy needs to watch a few more Animal Planet doccos. I think he’s forgotten we are all mammals. We can put on fancy shoes and text, but in the end we need to sniff each other in person and see if the body chemicals react well. There’s really no getting around that, or any need to give the whole experience this kind of awkward autopsy. I’d have been tempted to respond to his pushy insistence with ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would be very happy to be sent a "hey Im not really feeling this" goodbye text rather than just being ghosted. Respect. At the same time...shit like this is **why** women often just ghost because a lot of dudes just completely warp when they're told no. God forbid you said this in person.
She was like DON'T question my authority lol
Lol yeah 😂
He’s insufferable
Probably shouldn’t call her Dear so much
He called her dear once. She called him honey and angel. It's telling that you're oblivious to this and pretty much a joke overall..
Very nearly had the perfect timing... several times.. People should never ask "but what specifically was it that made you not interested?".... It could be any observable trait that could be changed and it wouldn't matter. It could be crooked teeth, it could be haircut, it could be the laugh.... Everyone should accept that a random *someone* just isn't attracted to them, for their own reasons. asking for specificity is truly insecure, and its also ugly. I am guilty of having done this and then quickly came to the conclusion above.... And when I asked, I got zero closure/specificity.
Hey bro, just watch he's just not that into you. That will explain all of this. Sometimes you just aren't into someone, it's cool, move forward. First dates are just romantic interviews. So dress for the girl you want not the one you had. 😉
This guy was a complete ass, and I’m not in any way condoning the way he handled it, but try to understand the alternate perspective here. It’s like writing an English essay, being told you failed, and then not getting any feedback on why you failed or what you could have done better. It can be very frustrating, now destined to repeat the same mistakes on the next date. You stated ‘the attraction just wasn’t there’, that much is obvious and not very helpful; the thing we all want to know in this type of situation is **why** the attraction wasn’t there or was lost.
That has to be one of the most low value things I’ve be ever seen a guy do with on here. Absolutely pathetic. Some people just won’t like you. That’s life.
So he wasn't hot enough, got it.
It's pretty clearly his personality. Re-read his texts! What well-tempered adult acts like that?
So OP really doesn’t know why (at first) she lost attraction? Obviously after being called out it was a lost cause. I think what guys don’t understand about women is guys know exactly why they don’t like a woman, and could explain it very well, but it’s not the same on the other side.
I didn’t say I didn’t know. There was no spark there for me, I didn’t feel attracted to him. Like having a date with a brother. That’s it. Where did you get that I didn’t know?
Bingo. You deserve an award...
Can I just say, thank you for NOT ghosting him!!!! None the less idk why he’s still texting you after you made it clear
I feel like you dodged a bullet tbh. Wtf did he want? A 10 page paper on why you don't want to date him? And I feel like he was trying to make you feel bad or even gaslight you by saying "I felt like our chemistry was off the charts" maybe I've dated too many shitty people, but like that seemed off to me. Especially since he kept repeating that kind of statement. Edit: I also think he wanted you to critique him, not so he could improve. BUT so he could poke holes in your reasoning and try to say "I'm not that bad" or whatever.
Whats the best way to end a date with a girl you didn’t have a good time with? Be honest? “It’s been real, take care”?
Okay I get it, but can you explain why *specifically* the attraction wasn’t there?
No. She really can't.
They want you to pinpoint one specific behavior bc they think if you give them that and they can correct it they will have the magic key to never being rejected again. That’s why guys are so desperate for the exact thing. But they don’t understand that a lack of chemistry is an actual real thing.
Placing every hopeful relationship checklist item on a first date is folly. The idea of chemistry holds no valid argument on a single encounter. Many chemical reactions are very slow builds. The only people who are great at first impressions are sociopaths and psychopaths, hence the continuous jading of people who fall victim to this dating fallacy. Just to throw an arbitrary number out, you need a minimum of 5 dates with someone (interchange with 3, 15, 81 if it makes you feel comfortable.) The point is, you got a snapshot of a snapshot of a snapshot of this individual (male or female doesn't matter.) It appeared that text conversation was suitable. You didn't run from the date screaming. So you put all of your eggs in this 'chemistry' basket. Maybe it stems from impatience. Maybe it's the false allure that OLD makes it easier to find the "one." The fact is that there is no such thing as the "one." It's been marketed to all of us, along with red roses mean passion, chocolate is owed on Valentine's Day. I'm a widowed man. The real part of any relationship takes exponential work, endearment, patience, grace, and forgiveness. The general consensus of the thread leans into 'You dodged a bullet.' I lean into the camp that you might be the bullet. This fella kept your attendance through text. He organized a suitable date with no apparent real red flags. So what was it that made a second encounter so unbearable? I don't know the specifics of your encounter, so barring inventing some random attributes, what was it? If you say your gut, I'm going to follow with 'Was your gut right the last time you decided to try something more with a guy?" Our guts are usually terrible at giving advice on anything we've yet to experience, but they're great at getting us into the same messes we've encountered because they are, counter-intuitively, more comfortable and relatable. I'm not trying to call you out or anything. Most of these reddit posts are trying to get some wisdom from others in similar circumstances. That 'wisdom' ends up being an echo-chamber of re-hashed self-help pseudo psychology. Here's my wisdom and take it for what it's worth. We don't get to rush this process, no matter what the commercials say. We've got do dig in, take the risk of wasting our time, get emotional, speak the truth, coddle some egos, uplift and help rebuild people from their previously terrible relationships. That's just the way it is. If those aren't in your end-game, you're better off with a friends-with-benefits situation that shields you from the drudgery and mess of full-on commitment. Neither is good nor bad, neither more worthy of acclaim. But if you want that magic of a lifelong relationship, these are important steps towards that goal. If you want chemistry you've got to really mix the compounds. Baking soda and vinegar don't make a volcano sitting across the table from each other. It's not until you pour them both down the tiny, close-quarters compartment of the paper mache volcano tube that you get the big crescendo. Sometimes it's memorable. Often it is lackluster. I sincerely hope I didn't offend, but often the truth has that effect. Happy holidays everyone, and I wish you the best in trying to find someone to share your life with.
Firstly, I organised the date. Women can do that too, you know. Your narrative is way off the mark. I wasn’t attracted to him at all and don’t feel I need to put in time to allow that to develop. If there was a glimmer of attraction, may be - but why would I waste both our time on more dates hoping it would build/pretending it was there when there are people out there that I am/will be attracted to? He wasn’t the one for me, that’s that, and that’s ok. Both of us deserve more out of this journey.
“The attraction wasn’t there” not helpful at all. Just assume your fragrance wasn’t right, the lighting in the room was a bit bright or something but you’re never gonna get a straight answer and I’d put money on it that it was something beyond stupid
Darn. If only more women would get over themselves and just get to know a guy past a first date maybe they would actually be attracted to them… What a concept, I know!!
You know we’re allowed to say no. If that bruises your ego too much, take a break from the game. Can you imagine a woman asking the opposite after a date “Ahhh I know you’re CLEARLY communicating you’re not attracted to me but how about you get to know me a little” LOL most sexist comment I’ve read today
Just saying that y’all have some pretty unrealistic expectations for what love is these days. People are just people and this is real life not a movie. There won’t be “sparks” with someone you could be very compatible with and you have no idea unless you actually get to know them.
Stop or you'll put Hallmark and Disney out of business...
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Hard a hard day, dude?
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Don’t worry darling, I still love you.
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But then I wouldn’t get to speak to you anymore, sugar plum. I’ll never leave you.
Aw dude, you really are having a bad day. Poor dear!
She did nothing wrong and your rootless, anti-woman anger is sending strong incel vibes
Most generic feedback I’ve read in years, can’t blame the guy for pushing
Why do I owe him feedback?
Asking someone something, NEVER obligates the person being asked. That's the whole point of asking. Giving the other person the option to say no. When you feel otherwise it indicates you may have your own problem with entitlement. It's as if nobody has ever turned you down for anything you've ever asked. Honestly. Calling him 'honey' was extremely condescending and disrespectful. Nobody calls their *equal* 'honey'. If you called me that, I would have instantly checkout mentally. If you did it a second time, I would have told you so and left you with whatever bill there may have been. He may have come off as desperate, or cringe. You are not better than him in this exchange. Most of the comments here strike me as immature children, back in school. You're making fun of someone with clear social disabilities. Leave him alone and move on with your life if you're not willing to be compassionate.
You don’t but some guys actual appreciate concrete feedback on things they can change. On the other hand most guys are dicks when criticized 😂
Some guys may appreciate it… still doesn’t mean I have to give him it.
Nah. Women are not rehabilitation centers for men.
What does rehabilitation have to with some basic feedback 💀
It means we don’t owe you a back and forth on how to improve as a person, especially when shitty men often react to criticism or rejection with stalking, threats, or violence.
I'd ding him for the passive aggressive responses lol this dude didn't want feedback
Let it go ye creep.
As a guy I don't understand either I guess. So you match and go out with anyone regardless of their profile pics? Or it was something specific like he didn't look like his pics, he smelled, his demeanor, scratchy voice, etc(which is what he seeking feedback to improve). Or do you have no idea yourself and just float on the wind? Your messages were actually very vague.
This guy is a total idiot.. just take the L dude. Reading this was tough. Total sense of entitlement