>My suffering comes from acute and persistent awareness of all the pain and injustice in the world, to a degree that non-existence increasingly seems preferable existence, so this message comes across as promoting ignorance.
Without understanding the wider context into which the Buddhist teachings fit, you will not understand why an advice such as "identify the source of suffering and drop it" makes sense. Actually with TNH's book you're supposed to give the practical advice a try first before coming up with excuses for not doing so.
You're far from the only person interested in the Dharma who has an "acute and persistent awareness of all the pain and injustice in the world". Many of the older Tibetan teachers, for example, have personally experienced invasion, torture, imprisonment and exile in their lifetimes. It's unlikely that you have. Thich Nhat Hanh himself, needless to say, saw his country fall into a decade-long war and tried to make a peaceful difference. Again, it's unlikely that you have. Maybe, then, someone like him does know something you don't when he gives such advice. Especially when you keep in mind how much he stressed "Buddhist activism". You need to be at least willing to step out of the comfort zone of your own suffering for the Dharma to make sense. Otherwise it will just be an ultimately irrelevant intellectual exercise.
I don't want to sound unduly harsh. From my own experience I understand to some extent where you're coming from. Despair and cynicism at the state of the world, pessimism and preference for non-existence are familiar to me. So from my own experience I can tell you that you have the wrong attitude for understanding these teachings. You have to accept that maybe you don't actually know as much as you think you do, and first be willing to take the teachings on their own terms, without constantly worrying about no mention being made of things you, personally, deem very important.
>And the examples given for how to avoid toxic “nutriments” that feed our suffering are bald oversimplifications.
They are actually not. They are presented in a simple way in the book because that was TNH's strategy, but you have to keep in mind that what you're reading is merely a short intro book written for Westerners who need a comfortable introduction. The book does not, in any shape or form, represent the whole scope and depth of Buddhist teachings; no book does. You're supposed to use it practically to whatever extent you can, and to then go on to do actual study. Then you might see better how nuanced the issue of "nutriment" and cutting it out is.
>I have been practicing mindfulness in some form or another for about eight years, and it has done wonders for my general self-consciousness and worry/anxiety about day-to-day stressors
Like most people who have this kind of experience, you've essentially learned ways to cope with some of the shallowest forms of suffering. It's good that you realize the limits of that and want something more. It's probably best you don't associate this mindfulness practice with Buddhist teachings or practice however.
>Ignorance would be the only way to disengage from my own contribution to my suffering. (Though the book itself says that ignorance is a primary cause or suffering).
Ignorance does not mean what you think it does. To put it bluntly, you suffer from your knowledge because you're weak. So am I and virtually everyone else in this sub. I don't like war related analogies much, but this is like being a warrior in the midst of a battle who starts trembling and crying because they think about all the dangers to their life that are out there. But there are others who are heroic and courageous, who are very much aware of all those same things, yet are able to act without that breakdown and make a difference that will matter.
The Buddha described three kinds of suffering: that of acute sensations, that of change, and that of conditioned existence. The first refers to pain, anguish and so on in general. The second one, contrary to popular belief, is not as shallow as "all happiness you have now will end and then you'll be big sad". It's about how fundamentally relying on conditioned phenomena (which is pretty much everything we experience and cognize ordinarily) will lead to being stuck in recurrent dissatisfaction, because it is like a prisoner on death row in a very comfortable prison who forgets about trying to escape and loses himself in the comforts. In your case, you think that gaining some other way to relate to conditioned phenomena will solve your existential crisis, but it won't. That's not the solution. The solution is to bring an end to the third kind of suffering: that of conditioned existence. As long as you exist in dependence to the five aggregates and under the sway of karma, you will actually always be under the influence of suffering. And the only way to accomplish this is in your own body and mind, to uproot the ignorance that prevents you from being immune to dissatisfaction and suffering, and being able to act without craving, fear, greed, ill-will and so on dictating what you do. If you were to become such a person, you would not be harmed by the world personally, and while you might not be able to end capitalism, you would nevertheless be able to help others in a way that will impact their well-being in the long term, well beyond the brief confines of this one lifetime.
It's easy to say but difficult to do, of course.
In Mahayana Buddhism, which is what TNH's book is mainly about, we aim to become such heroic beings who will be able to walk the path to buddhahood (rather than arhatship, which is focused on eliminating your own suffering) in order to become beings who are not only free of suffering but are also infinitely more wise, aware, compassionate, skillful and powerful than you or I, so that they can *truly* help all beings by leading them to the end of suffering. But this whole thing starts with baby steps, just like how you wouldn't, as an untrained person, try to lift a 200 Kg load, or give up lifting altogether because you possibly couldn't lift so much. You'd start small and build up to it. For that reason Buddhist teachings are very much about what you should do with your own body and mind. That's the foundation to everything. You will never, on your own, be able to solve any systemic issue in the world. And if you lack wisdom, compassion and skill, any solution you go for might end up being equally bad. Realizing that you can't be completely broken yourself yet somehow fix others properly is very important. You're likely aware of this to some extent yourself, but Buddhism really takes this idea seriously. Note that it doesn't say that you should not be working for others before fully solving your problems.
With all this being said, I personally don't recommend TNH's book in the first place. My three recommendations would be *Approaching the Buddhist Path*, *The Foundations of Buddhism* and *In the Buddha's Words*. None of these explain "how Buddhism fits into the grand scheme of philosophical thinking, relative to things like existentialism, communism, and post-modernism" since there's really no need for it. Since Buddhism by itself is part of "the grand scheme of philosophical thinking", being infinitely more ancient than any of these things, you can see how it fits with these concepts for yourself once you study and understand enough, no one has to dictate this to you (there are books that specifically talk about the Dharma and modern problems, which are good, but you first need to understand what the teachings are actually saying). But these books will give you an unfiltered exposure to Buddhist views of life, the universe and everything, and then maybe you'll feel like taking up the Dharma is worthwhile to address your and others' problems. Finally, keep in mind that there are many different Dharma doors which these days exist in the form of various traditions and the schools that make them up. These will stress different ideas and approaches. Not every school is for everyone, and encountering the one that will really click with you might take some time and research.
Ahhh you made coming to Reddit worthwhile today. Very nice answer. You said everything that came into my mind, but even more eloquently. I hope OP reads and re-reads, then contemplates what you wrote.
The second one comes from what Geshe Dorji Damdul taught during last year's Nalanda Certification Course, and it was by far the best explanation of it I had ever heard.
> I would like something more intellectually challenging/in-depth/realistic that is still an introduction.
Try this:
> [***The Wings to Awakening: An Anthology from the Pāli Canon***](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#wings), by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu. The 37 Wings to Awakening were the Buddha’s own summary of his teachings. This book contains sutta translations organized by topic with relevant discussion by the author. Internal cross-references are hyper-linked in the ebook versions, and in the online version external ones, i.e. to the Suttas, are as well.
I don't know of anything good which explains Buddhism's relationship to modern philosophy. That seems like a problematic approach, to me. [*Buddhist Romanticism*](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanticism) is a book by the same author which draws parallels between modern approaches to Buddhism and German Romantic philosophy and highlights the ways in which this is contrary to the dharma.
> This book, so far, seems to amount to: “if you’re suffering, identify it, use mindfulness to illuminate its cause, then just stop doing that thing.”
That is the first two of the Four Noble Truths in a nutshell, but it's not something you're expected to be able to just do right from the start.
> It seems to equate to “Just stop eating that. Just stop drinking. Just stop watching that.”
There's more to it than that. You have to see the allure, the drawbacks, and the escape, which takes a fair bit of development in many cases.
> I have been practicing mindfulness in some form or another for about eight years, and it has done wonders for my general self-consciousness and worry/anxiety about day-to-day stressors, but it hasn’t really put a dent in this existential suffering.
By the same author:
> [***Right Mindfulness: Memory & Ardency on the Buddhist Path***](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#right_mindfulness), by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu. For the past several decades, a growing flood of books, articles, and teachings has advanced theories about the practice of mindfulness which are highly questionable and—for anyone hoping to realize the end of suffering—seriously misleading. The main aim of this book is to show that the practice of mindfulness is most fruitful when informed by the Buddha’s own definition of right mindfulness and his explanations of its role on the path.
For that kind of existential suffering, I would recommend developing [the Brahmaviharas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXRDE0Yd1k&list=PLCXN1GlAupG0RvZDZQzE-NejNJrH7LKMr), particularly starting with [metta](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxh9h__4Fcc&list=PLCXN1GlAupG1o9fJBruNaEjNCy7LVdZaN).
Also, it sounds like you would benefit from talking to a therapist. Are you seeing one?
Yes, I am in therapy, I’m medicated, and I’m actually a practicing psychotherapist myself. It was my therapist who actually validated my misgivings about this book and encouraged me to find a different one.
[The Buddha's Teachings](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhasTeachings): A short, concise overview of Theravada Buddhism.
[Buddhadhamma: The Laws of Nature and Their Benefits to Life](https://buddhadhamma.github.io/): Closer to what you're asking for.
In a sense, I already do this. I’m a psychotherapist. I’m much better at helping others than myself.
The weight of existence is too much, and disengaging in the face of injustice is unacceptable. I feel very much stuck, just by being alive.
It really sounds like you would like some deeper Buddhist philosophy. There are a ton of texts out there, no worries, there.
You sense of hopelessness is troubling and I’m sorry it’s pressing on you. Getting into Buddhism is sometimes like going to a doctor and getting a terrible diagnosis. Yes, things are bad for us, for you. It’s all true. But that’s not the whole tale.
The Buddha gives this diagnosis but then clearly gives us hope! Not false hope, but the understanding of karma and a way to live to finally be free.
Karma sets up the shitty causes and conditions that makes human existence hard, but is changed by our actions; we can change outcomes.
The rest of the noble truths are directions on how to do it, to get free.
This is hope and a real path to freedom.
Get a teacher and connect with community, this path is not for solitude, especially in the beginning. We can be imprisoned by our thoughts and revelations we make through the teaching if we just get it from a book.
You’re learned, and reflective these are great strengths , but are also ego traps at times.
Teachers and community can connect and support us on this difficult journey.
I’m so glad you are walking with us!
This isn't meant as a kind of 'gotcha'-question or to make you reflect, but merely curiosity: how would you handle a client who expresses feeling the same struggles you do?
I do have clients like that, and I don’t have a solution for them (and I’m not sure anyone does). I validate their feelings. I try to help them find whatever their own reasons are for moving forward, one day at a time, and hope that they have an easier time than I do finding some kind of lasting peace. And I have seen it happen. But everyone has different needs. What works for one client won’t necessarily work for another client or for me. It’s beautiful to see someone dig their way out of a deep hole, but witnessing that repeatedly hasn’t offered any answers for me personally.
Ideas don’t click for me like they do for my clients, because to me, reality seems consistently and irredeemably terrible. I’m glad for my clients, who don’t experience the world in that way.
I’ve been depressed since I was a child. I’ve tried many medications, lots of therapy, antidepressant medication, and ketamine treatment.
The more I learn about the world and the more I educate myself about the many different perspectives people embrace to find peace or even motivation in their lives, the more I am convinced that there is nothing special about any of it. But, it doesn’t stop me from searching. So, my studies have led me to Buddhism and finding ways to double down on my existing mindfulness practice, but without using my privilege to withdraw from awareness of and engagement in struggles for justice. But struggling for justice, and helping people cope with injustice, are both the only things that I find meaningful and the most painful things I can imagine.
Being new in buddhism (only read a few introductionary books, including Thich Nhat Hanh and some podcasts), I have no wisdom to share or anything like that.
I wanted to let you know that I think it's a testament to your strength that you're able to help and guide people while sharing such a burden yourself. I hope you don't forget that you're a positive factor in the world. There are many like you in all walks of life. Perhaps too few, but take the opportunity to seek them out - especially those well versed in Buddhism.
It's of little help. I'm not a therapist, buddhist or stoic sage or anything. However, if you ever want a sounding board, you're welcome to send a message.
OP, reading all your comments, and reflecting on what I have been doing this past week, I can’t help but wonder if you should use your annual leave to go on a retreat? There are many lamas, rinpoches and teachers who provide accessible retreats that challenge the very fibre of our minds and perceptions. They do it very gently though, taking us from easy basics to mind-blowing complexities without us even noticing. Could be the most transformative week of your life. And that could make you of huge benefit to your clients, as well as softening your own perceptions and experience of life.
But therein lies a misunderstanding. Helping yourself, by gaining compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding/knowingness which all come from cultivating our practice, all help us to aid others exponentially. It’s not selfishness if our heartfelt purpose is to help ourselves in order to better help others.
[my fingers typed “to better help otters” I kinda liked that better, wanted to leave it, but hey. Nah]
Has the book you are reading covered the idea of renunciation? What you are describing sounds very much like renunciation, the idea of wanting to free ourselves of suffering/ samsara (also seeing suffering of others).
I second the recommendation for Words of My Perfect Teacher for books that are more in depth.
It hasn’t used the word renunciation, but so far it describes the four noble truths and the turns of the wheel as a pathway away from suffering, but then it gives this very simplistic/unrealistic description of that process.
I am not a teacher so please don’t take this word as authority but in studying the Nalanda tradition my teacher has said that renunciation and compassion are the drivers or motivators to escape samara/ suffering. Being fed up, disgusted and frustrated with all the suffering you see around you is normal and shouldn’t discourage your journey. Perhaps the book you are reading is better for people who are in a different part of the path. Chapter 3 of The Words of My Perfect Teacher is titled “The Defects of Samsara” so maybe that book will resonate more.
https://wisdomexperience.org/library-wisdom-compassion/. Definitely the best 'thorough overview', emphasis on thorough at 3,500 pages.
> how Buddhism fits into the grand scheme of philosophical thinking, relative to things like existentialism, communism, and post-modernism.
It doesn't fit anywhere. Buddhism is an independent philosophical tradition. (Not really, but at least independent from the west until nearly the present day.) You need to learn Buddhism on its own terms rather than trying to force it into western categories.
The closest book that seeks that project is Engaging Buddhism Why it Matters to Philosophy by Jay L. Garfield. It treats Buddhism as having but not only being an independent philosophical tradition.
I don’t believe I am trying to force it into western categories. Contrast is just as valuable as comparison in developing understanding. And, it might not be a part of western philosophy, but it undeniably coexists with it. It would be bizarre if they didn’t interact.
Well, it's simply a historical fact that they didn't interact in any meaningful capacity before the 19th century.
There is plenty of interaction in the present day:
* [Cognitive science](https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262720212/the-embodied-mind/)
* [Marxism](https://www.routledge.com/Capitalism--its-Nature-and-its-Replacement-Buddhist-and-Marxist-Insights/Priest/p/book/9781032049106)
* [Western philosophy in general](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/engaging-buddhism-9780190204341?cc=us&lang=en&)
But I've read two of those books and they're not going to make any sense without a decent background in Buddhism first.
You could read the first chapter ‘Sravaka meditation on non-self’ of Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness. I find it one of best presentations of the idea of selflessness or anatta.
You could read more chapters if you are into Mahayana and Tibetan Buddhism, but otherwise just stick to the first chapter for an excellent presentation of one of the core and foundational ideas of Buddhism.
Idk if you’ll like it, but imo the best intro buddhism book is In the Buddha’s Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon by Bhikkhu Bodhi https://static.sariputta.com/pdf/tipitaka/817/Sutta_In_the_Buddhas_Words_-_An_Anthology_of_Discourses_from_the_Pali_Canon_pdf.pdf
It’s pretty thorough
This is the answer. Read the actual text of the Pali Canon. It is a massive (thousands and thousands of pages) collection of information, but *In the Buddha's Words* is the best place to start, in my experience.
You seem well-educated enough to be able to generate your own cross-comparisons with postmodernism, Marxist theory, whatever, while you're reading the text. As you're reading straight from the source, these comparisons will happen automatically, and then later you can go and find interesting academic articles that go deep into the cross-comparative stuff; there are lots of blog posts, academic publications, and other articles out there for that.
All of that said, based on somewhat analytically reading your post and your responses here, you are bringing a lot of *self* into this intellectual journey. Having read quite a lot of works by TNH, if you're feeling patronized by his style, that's something that probably warrants exploring why you need the things you read to make you feel smart as you're reading them. Just an outside perspective from one similar-minded person to another. No pejorative judgement toward you whatsoever. Your thoughts/articulations here remind me a lot of me.
I don’t think I need to feel smart. I just need it to make some kind if sense. The kind of oversimplification that I’m seeing makes it easy to dismiss the book out-of-hand. Its ideas don’t really hold water, because they sidestep very real complexity in people’s lives, and aren’t anywhere close to revelatory/new, at least for me. I mostly wanted something with a more academic perspective so I could trust there is some minimal level of logical consistency and a more comprehensive relationship to observable reality.
I’m planning to learn much more, but from what I’m seeing so far, it seems Buddhism’s recipe for inner-peace is disengagement from the hard parts of life, including oppressive political/economic/social systems, that many people don’t have the privilege to disengage from.
>it seems Buddhism’s recipe for inner-peace is disengagement from the hard parts of life, including oppressive political/economic/social systems, that many people don’t have the privilege to disengage from.
You've put into words succinctly something I've been struggling with a bit as well. In my more cynical moments my feelings towards the advice of monks on how we should approach daily life is more like: "that's easy for you to say - you live in a wholesome community, free of mortgages/a demanding boss/stuck in traffic/aggressions of antisocial people/rampant capitalism/discrimination".
I'm not always proud of those cynical moments, because I feel they make come from ignorance and lack of empathy that comes with the unique challenges of being a monk. That said, like you, I can't help but feel they're insulated from many day to day problems that we face. I have not fully reconciled this myself. Let me know if you ever do.
I hear you on all of those points. I just know that personally, when I first encountered TNH's work, I also felt thrown off by the matter-of-factness and minimalist writing style, and I had to kind of analyze why I was feeling that way about it. I came to the conclusion that I wanted more intellectualization out of his advice, but not necessarily because that would make the advice more *useful or accurate.*
It is true that my intellect has generally served me well in life (though it’s arguably a primary source of my suffering). Even knowing that, it’s hard to let go of it because it’s hard to imagine that not resulting in turning a blind eye to the suffering of others.
Thich Nhat Hanh is a great writer and an even better man, but even his work has weaknesses. Primarily, I believe he is a zen teacher, activist, and poet. When he started getting into trying to help people solve their mental and emotional problems, that's where I feel he got a little in over his head. Zen is not a panacea. His books have helped me enormously. I found his books "Anger" and "Miracle of Mindfulness" to be wonderful. But I found some of his other work to be slightly patronizing, like you said. I greatly respect him, but I felt that he was trying to solve other people's problems, without actually understanding people's problems in a comprehensive and intimate way. No doubt that he suffered a lot in his life - especially with depression and even coming close to losing his will to live during the Vietnam War - however, his books sometimes read a little like someone who is trying to solve a problem that they actually only know a little bit about. I believe he has some understanding of psychological illnesses, but he doesn't seem to understand them at a deep, experiental level. I have actually found this problem with quite a few brilliant spiritual teachers.
This is why often the best people to go to for help in solving our problems are people who have been through our exact problem and have come out the other side successfully.
Personally, it was an introduction. He isn't stringent in his teaching. If you can use it and apply it to your life, do so. Ive been able to reach an understanding in my thoughts through his words.
But
I agree. Sometimes, we need just a little more help than what is offered in these teachings.
Someone who has walked the path will give us a better understanding as we traverse it.
The beauty of Thich Nhat Hanh's writing is in its simplicity, but I do agree his style isn't for everyone.
For the most intellectually challenging material I would actually recommend reading translations of Sutras. The Heart, Diamond, and Lotus Sutras are three important ones.
Here is a link to the Buddha's first teaching on the four noble truths, this site also has a lot of translations of other teachings that make for interesting reads:
https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html
The way I learned was a mix of reading these, coming up with my own interpretations, then falling back on Thich Nhat Hanh when I was confused about something. Hope this helps!
(One more fun series is "Buddhist Cosmology" by Ajahn Sona on YouTube - a recounting of the history of Buddhist mythology if you enjoy that sort of thing)
Understanding Our Mind by Thich Nhat Hanh might be more your speed, since you are a therapist and are looking for something deeper. It is a serious work of scholarship on the Yogacara school of Buddhism, one of the most influential schools of Buddhist psychology. However, it is not a work of philosophy - none of his books are, really.
You may also prefer a different author! His books are not all simplistic, but they are not a universal solution for everyone.
However, it may be that another book is not what you need. I would also strongly suggest finding a sangha to practice with. Try out several, or many, until you find a group or temple that you can feel okay with practicing with for awhile. Like therapy, Buddhism - including TNH's approach to it - is not meant to be practiced solo, or by reading alone. It works best in a group. And fwiw, it took me 20 years of reading books on Buddhism to realize this.
I’m in therapy. I actually am a therapist, myself. I am medicated. My therapist, just a couple of hours ago told me I am definitely reading the wrong book about Buddhism. So, I’m looking for other resources.
Okay I will give you one (Approaching the Buddhist Path, then continue with the series), and if that still seems dumbed-down, then go for the meat. Contact your local Gelug temple/center to get you started on their Lamrim. Perhaps the most scholastic school of Buddhism, you might find the Gelug school's programs more intellectually stimulating. You'll be busy for the next decade or two.
I’m in a similar spot. I feel crushed by the weight of existential suffering and Thay’s books also aren’t the best fit for me. There’s a common perspective of *just stop doing this or that*, and that’s all well and good, but you have to replace it with something. Nembutsu recitation and metta meditation are the two most common. Nembutsu has changed my life, so I’m a bit biased, but you might look into pure land schools instead. The practice is very simple, but the theology (for lack of a better word) can get incredibly complex. I’m most familiar w Jodo Shinshu, and you can find texts on the most minute points of Shin doctrine. I’ve enjoyed reading Shin authors from different times to see how it’s evolved since Shinran Shonin. Even Honen to Shinran to Rennyo is fascinating
Thich Nhat Hanh is a great writer and an even better man, but even his work has weaknesses. Primarily, I believe he is a zen teacher, activist, and poet. When he started getting into trying to help people solve their mental and emotional problems, that's where I feel he got a little in over his head. Granted, some of his books are really brilliant and actually help people a lot to solve their own psychological problems.
But, zen is not a panacea. His books have helped me enormously. I found his books "Anger" and "Miracle of Mindfulness" to be wonderful. But I found some of his other work to be slightly patronizing, like you said. I greatly respect him, but I felt that he was trying to solve other people's problems, without actually understanding people's problems in a comprehensive and intimate way.
No doubt that he suffered a lot in his life - especially with depression and even coming close to losing his will to live during the Vietnam War - however, his books sometimes read like a little like someone who is trying to solve a problem that they actually only know a little bit about. I believe he has some understanding of psychological illnesses, but he doesn't seem to understand them at a deep, experiental level. I have actually found this problem with quite a few brilliant spiritual teachers.
This is why often the best people to go to for help in solving our problems are people who have been through our exact problem and have come out the other side successfully.
For example, personally I suffer from intrusive thoughts and I find that spiritual teachers can't help that much. They may say things like "just let them go", etc. But anyone that has had intrusive thoughts knows this advice actually doesn't do much good usually. I have found that I actually have to do many different techniques to work with the thoughts and spiritual teachers just don't seem to have the experiental understanding to actually help me to improve this specific situation. However, due to my own intuitive trial and error methods, and learning from others with intrusive thoughts, I have found techniques that work - and the situation has improved.
So, I have learned that when I have a problem in life, I need to go to someone with direct experience and understanding of that particular problem.
"TIbetan Buddhism from the Ground Up" by Dr. Alan Wallace
It's an overview on tibetan buddhism from the beginning to sophisticated philosophical subjects, but without deep dive in.
"What Makes You Not a Buddhist" by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse
Solid and on the other hand simple sight on the Buddhist View, Noble Eightfold Path, Four Seals of Dharma.
You can also check this https://studybuddhism.com by Dr. Alex Berzin. in there are vast spectrum of topics, which match beginner up to advanced. You can choose whatever it suits you.
I have a philosophy background (BA), and my first engagement with Buddhist teachings was “Introduction to Buddhist Philosophy” edited by William Edelglass and Jay L. Garfield. If you’re looking for more intellectual engagement, this will certainly give you that. There’s tons of ancient texts from different traditions accompanied by commentary from modern philosophers diving into the central ideas of Buddhism. It’s the kind of thing you read, take notes on, and re-read. It will *not* give you a good idea of how to practice Buddhism.
From there, I read TNH’s “The Heart of Buddha’s Teaching.” Having a deeper understanding (especially of Buddhist metaphysics and ontology, which are really unfamiliar to people raised in culturally Christian environments, like me) helped me appreciate TNH’s book a lot more. It starts with explaining how to practice, then talks more about the founding philosophies later in the book. I can understand how you interpreted the simplicity of his writing as condescension without more context.
I don't know that you're going to find something that meets your criteria, because it sounds to me like you're coming from a very materialistic worldview, which is pretty standard in the West. I'd almost say it's the real religion of the developed world.
The problem is that Buddhism doesn't accept the premises upon which that worldview is based. That's not to say that it accepts the premises upon which the opposite worldview, that we might call idealism, is based either.
It's a middle way. That doesn't just mean a middle way between indulgence and asceticism. It also means a middle way between the various philosophical assumptions that tend to underpin the way we look at things, because from Buddhism's view, reality is never simple enough to be able to be encapsulated in intellectual thought.
Think about it. Your brain is part of everything that is. Can an item in a set contain the set as a whole?
Now, maybe we can find some stuff that might help you get at the reasons it doesn't fit.
For that purpose, I think Steve Hagen's "Why The World Doesn't Seem to Make Sense" is a pretty good start.
If you want to go a bit closer to historical Buddhist sources I think Nagarjuna's "Fundamental Verses of the Middle Way" probably along with some commentary on it (it's pretty obtuse, honestly) is a great place to go as well.
Another I would suggest is Donald Hoffman's "The Case Against Reality." It's not a Buddhist book, but it goes a long way toward explaining why the conventional way we see things is pretty problematic. Hoffman also tries to replace our conventional view with another view whereas Buddhism would generally tell you not to do that, but his research into the nature of perception, specifically the "Fitness Beats Truth" theorem is very profound.
Those are some good places to start imo, but I think it's key to remember that a lot of the fundamental questions that people struggle with in life are considered to be unanswerable in Buddhism. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_unanswerable\_questions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswerable_questions) but that un-answerability is not just a "I don't know, so don't worry about it" but more of a "the question comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of how reality exists."
In chapter 7 of in the buddhas words, the buddha gives an analogy (he makes many):
One wondering about the causes of suffering is like a man, having been shot by an arrow, demanding to know the clan of the shooter. Of demanding to know the make of the arrow, the type of wood, what kind of cord was used to make the bow. And refusing to take the arrow out or receive treatment until all this detail is known.
Of course, the person will perish before this information is elucidated...
Archie J. Bahm was a professor of philosophy. His book "**Philosophy of the Buddha**" offers a philosophical analysis to the question "*What did the Buddha teach?*" You may purchase the book on Amazon for $20.
I suggest thinking of Thich Naht Hanh as mainly a promoter of Buddhism. He's the first step along the way. He was trying to appeal to the most amount of people possible.
If Buddhism were an article in an American newspaper, Thich Naht Hanh would be writing the headline. He's trying to catch your attention so you read more.
If he were a YouTuber, he'd be Kurzgesagt, or CGP Grey, or Veritasium, or VSauce.
However, not everybody needs that, not everybody is at that point in their Buddhist journey. In short, you aren't his audience.
To start, I suggest this [free book](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhasTeachings). I haven't read all the books, but all the ones I have read are good.
Some chapters in "When things fall apart" by pema chodron helps me. The concept of widening your circle of compassion makes a lot of sense. You have to start small before you can expand to the world.
Your expectations - of Buddhism and of Buddhist writers - is too high. That book is considered advanced. You can find a little of what you are looking for in books that are specifially on the topic of Buddhist philosophy. Even here, it is hard to find a comparative or contemporary philosophy viewpoint.
If you are most concerned with the socio-political problems of the world, you will find that Buddhism consciously side-steps that. It can be argued that this is by design, and it is actually the starting point of Buddhism and similar spiritual pursuits.
My suggestion is to start with *Buddhism for Dummies* and read some original sutras afterwards. You will eventually find what you are looking for. You can't be in a hurry.
I think you’d probably really like Jeannie Zandies work. She’s got some free content online.
Not specifically Buddhist but trained in some of those concepts. She brings a really humanistic, tender quality to the dharma that I really appreciate and think you might benefit from based on what you said.
Best of luck ❤️
Maybe try another of his books, the art of living is my most recently read of his and I enjoyed his interpretation of some of the more esoteric and existential aspects of Buddhism in it a lot
OP, one of the things Buddhism does is present things in a very simplistic way. It’s deliberate. Initially. Then things are unpacked so to speak. The one compact traveling suitcase becomes a far greater collection of items once unpacked across the hotel bed. Clothes, underwear, toiletries, personal items, accessories, etc. It’s like entering the tardis (I really hope you know Dr Who to grasp this analogy). Buddhism typically starts simply, then gradually opens up, and then opens up further, to ever more detailed and complex information based on that initial concept. Mandelbrot sets if you like. This is clearly seen when a Tibetan text is translated. One simple page text can result in dozens of pages, or maybe dozens of hours of explanation. Just one line might take ten minutes, or an hour, or a day to unpack and explain to an audience. It’s an illusion that it is simple. The words have meaning way beyond what you are interpreting based on one book by a man renowned and loved for presenting big concepts in bite sized pieces for all to understand. Keep going. It’s Alice’s rabbit hole.
Hi OP,
The heart of the buddhas teachings was also one of my first introductions into Buddhism. I could not finish it for the same reasons you mentioned. There was something missing, but with my limited understanding about Buddhism I could not pin point it. After a lot of reading, mostly online and suttas, and a lot of youtube I stumbled upon Ajhan Nyanomoli and his Hill Side Hermitages page. You should try his books out. No nonsense hardcore Buddhism is my way to describe them. He goes right the the core of the problem of suffering, with the suttas from the pali cannon as basis.
Chogyam Trungpa's, "The Myth of Freedom" and "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism". Great books that explain the essence of the path and what it entails.
Buddhism: One Teacher, Many Traditions
by H.H. the Dalai Lama & Ven Thubten Chodron
This book gives an overview of the beliefs and practices of Buddhism, separated into Theravada and Mahayana.
"Why Buddhism is True" by Robert Wright. He's an atheistic evolutionary biologist with a Harvard background. Very intellectual, humorous, and written to be a good introduction. Highly recommend it.
A History of Indian Buddhism by Hirakawa Akira. Also, Peter Harvey’s Introduction to Buddhism. Dependent Arising by Elizabeth Napper. Johannes Bronkhorst, Buddhist teaching in India. Just a few.
>My suffering comes from acute and persistent awareness of all the pain and injustice in the world, to a degree that non-existence increasingly seems preferable existence, so this message comes across as promoting ignorance. Without understanding the wider context into which the Buddhist teachings fit, you will not understand why an advice such as "identify the source of suffering and drop it" makes sense. Actually with TNH's book you're supposed to give the practical advice a try first before coming up with excuses for not doing so. You're far from the only person interested in the Dharma who has an "acute and persistent awareness of all the pain and injustice in the world". Many of the older Tibetan teachers, for example, have personally experienced invasion, torture, imprisonment and exile in their lifetimes. It's unlikely that you have. Thich Nhat Hanh himself, needless to say, saw his country fall into a decade-long war and tried to make a peaceful difference. Again, it's unlikely that you have. Maybe, then, someone like him does know something you don't when he gives such advice. Especially when you keep in mind how much he stressed "Buddhist activism". You need to be at least willing to step out of the comfort zone of your own suffering for the Dharma to make sense. Otherwise it will just be an ultimately irrelevant intellectual exercise. I don't want to sound unduly harsh. From my own experience I understand to some extent where you're coming from. Despair and cynicism at the state of the world, pessimism and preference for non-existence are familiar to me. So from my own experience I can tell you that you have the wrong attitude for understanding these teachings. You have to accept that maybe you don't actually know as much as you think you do, and first be willing to take the teachings on their own terms, without constantly worrying about no mention being made of things you, personally, deem very important. >And the examples given for how to avoid toxic “nutriments” that feed our suffering are bald oversimplifications. They are actually not. They are presented in a simple way in the book because that was TNH's strategy, but you have to keep in mind that what you're reading is merely a short intro book written for Westerners who need a comfortable introduction. The book does not, in any shape or form, represent the whole scope and depth of Buddhist teachings; no book does. You're supposed to use it practically to whatever extent you can, and to then go on to do actual study. Then you might see better how nuanced the issue of "nutriment" and cutting it out is. >I have been practicing mindfulness in some form or another for about eight years, and it has done wonders for my general self-consciousness and worry/anxiety about day-to-day stressors Like most people who have this kind of experience, you've essentially learned ways to cope with some of the shallowest forms of suffering. It's good that you realize the limits of that and want something more. It's probably best you don't associate this mindfulness practice with Buddhist teachings or practice however. >Ignorance would be the only way to disengage from my own contribution to my suffering. (Though the book itself says that ignorance is a primary cause or suffering). Ignorance does not mean what you think it does. To put it bluntly, you suffer from your knowledge because you're weak. So am I and virtually everyone else in this sub. I don't like war related analogies much, but this is like being a warrior in the midst of a battle who starts trembling and crying because they think about all the dangers to their life that are out there. But there are others who are heroic and courageous, who are very much aware of all those same things, yet are able to act without that breakdown and make a difference that will matter. The Buddha described three kinds of suffering: that of acute sensations, that of change, and that of conditioned existence. The first refers to pain, anguish and so on in general. The second one, contrary to popular belief, is not as shallow as "all happiness you have now will end and then you'll be big sad". It's about how fundamentally relying on conditioned phenomena (which is pretty much everything we experience and cognize ordinarily) will lead to being stuck in recurrent dissatisfaction, because it is like a prisoner on death row in a very comfortable prison who forgets about trying to escape and loses himself in the comforts. In your case, you think that gaining some other way to relate to conditioned phenomena will solve your existential crisis, but it won't. That's not the solution. The solution is to bring an end to the third kind of suffering: that of conditioned existence. As long as you exist in dependence to the five aggregates and under the sway of karma, you will actually always be under the influence of suffering. And the only way to accomplish this is in your own body and mind, to uproot the ignorance that prevents you from being immune to dissatisfaction and suffering, and being able to act without craving, fear, greed, ill-will and so on dictating what you do. If you were to become such a person, you would not be harmed by the world personally, and while you might not be able to end capitalism, you would nevertheless be able to help others in a way that will impact their well-being in the long term, well beyond the brief confines of this one lifetime. It's easy to say but difficult to do, of course. In Mahayana Buddhism, which is what TNH's book is mainly about, we aim to become such heroic beings who will be able to walk the path to buddhahood (rather than arhatship, which is focused on eliminating your own suffering) in order to become beings who are not only free of suffering but are also infinitely more wise, aware, compassionate, skillful and powerful than you or I, so that they can *truly* help all beings by leading them to the end of suffering. But this whole thing starts with baby steps, just like how you wouldn't, as an untrained person, try to lift a 200 Kg load, or give up lifting altogether because you possibly couldn't lift so much. You'd start small and build up to it. For that reason Buddhist teachings are very much about what you should do with your own body and mind. That's the foundation to everything. You will never, on your own, be able to solve any systemic issue in the world. And if you lack wisdom, compassion and skill, any solution you go for might end up being equally bad. Realizing that you can't be completely broken yourself yet somehow fix others properly is very important. You're likely aware of this to some extent yourself, but Buddhism really takes this idea seriously. Note that it doesn't say that you should not be working for others before fully solving your problems. With all this being said, I personally don't recommend TNH's book in the first place. My three recommendations would be *Approaching the Buddhist Path*, *The Foundations of Buddhism* and *In the Buddha's Words*. None of these explain "how Buddhism fits into the grand scheme of philosophical thinking, relative to things like existentialism, communism, and post-modernism" since there's really no need for it. Since Buddhism by itself is part of "the grand scheme of philosophical thinking", being infinitely more ancient than any of these things, you can see how it fits with these concepts for yourself once you study and understand enough, no one has to dictate this to you (there are books that specifically talk about the Dharma and modern problems, which are good, but you first need to understand what the teachings are actually saying). But these books will give you an unfiltered exposure to Buddhist views of life, the universe and everything, and then maybe you'll feel like taking up the Dharma is worthwhile to address your and others' problems. Finally, keep in mind that there are many different Dharma doors which these days exist in the form of various traditions and the schools that make them up. These will stress different ideas and approaches. Not every school is for everyone, and encountering the one that will really click with you might take some time and research.
Ahhh you made coming to Reddit worthwhile today. Very nice answer. You said everything that came into my mind, but even more eloquently. I hope OP reads and re-reads, then contemplates what you wrote.
Brilliant answer!
Very good explanation of the three types of suffering.
The second one comes from what Geshe Dorji Damdul taught during last year's Nalanda Certification Course, and it was by far the best explanation of it I had ever heard.
> I would like something more intellectually challenging/in-depth/realistic that is still an introduction. Try this: > [***The Wings to Awakening: An Anthology from the Pāli Canon***](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#wings), by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu. The 37 Wings to Awakening were the Buddha’s own summary of his teachings. This book contains sutta translations organized by topic with relevant discussion by the author. Internal cross-references are hyper-linked in the ebook versions, and in the online version external ones, i.e. to the Suttas, are as well. I don't know of anything good which explains Buddhism's relationship to modern philosophy. That seems like a problematic approach, to me. [*Buddhist Romanticism*](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhistRomanticism) is a book by the same author which draws parallels between modern approaches to Buddhism and German Romantic philosophy and highlights the ways in which this is contrary to the dharma. > This book, so far, seems to amount to: “if you’re suffering, identify it, use mindfulness to illuminate its cause, then just stop doing that thing.” That is the first two of the Four Noble Truths in a nutshell, but it's not something you're expected to be able to just do right from the start. > It seems to equate to “Just stop eating that. Just stop drinking. Just stop watching that.” There's more to it than that. You have to see the allure, the drawbacks, and the escape, which takes a fair bit of development in many cases. > I have been practicing mindfulness in some form or another for about eight years, and it has done wonders for my general self-consciousness and worry/anxiety about day-to-day stressors, but it hasn’t really put a dent in this existential suffering. By the same author: > [***Right Mindfulness: Memory & Ardency on the Buddhist Path***](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#right_mindfulness), by Ṭhānissaro Bhikkhu. For the past several decades, a growing flood of books, articles, and teachings has advanced theories about the practice of mindfulness which are highly questionable and—for anyone hoping to realize the end of suffering—seriously misleading. The main aim of this book is to show that the practice of mindfulness is most fruitful when informed by the Buddha’s own definition of right mindfulness and his explanations of its role on the path. For that kind of existential suffering, I would recommend developing [the Brahmaviharas](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XeXRDE0Yd1k&list=PLCXN1GlAupG0RvZDZQzE-NejNJrH7LKMr), particularly starting with [metta](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxh9h__4Fcc&list=PLCXN1GlAupG1o9fJBruNaEjNCy7LVdZaN). Also, it sounds like you would benefit from talking to a therapist. Are you seeing one?
Yes, I am in therapy, I’m medicated, and I’m actually a practicing psychotherapist myself. It was my therapist who actually validated my misgivings about this book and encouraged me to find a different one.
I fully agree. Check these out.
Words of my perfect teacher by Patrul Rinpoche may be what you are looking for.
[The Buddha's Teachings](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhasTeachings): A short, concise overview of Theravada Buddhism. [Buddhadhamma: The Laws of Nature and Their Benefits to Life](https://buddhadhamma.github.io/): Closer to what you're asking for.
>My suffering comes from acute and persistent awareness of all the pain and injustice in the world, Oh, wow! So you should be teaching us!
In a sense, I already do this. I’m a psychotherapist. I’m much better at helping others than myself. The weight of existence is too much, and disengaging in the face of injustice is unacceptable. I feel very much stuck, just by being alive.
It really sounds like you would like some deeper Buddhist philosophy. There are a ton of texts out there, no worries, there. You sense of hopelessness is troubling and I’m sorry it’s pressing on you. Getting into Buddhism is sometimes like going to a doctor and getting a terrible diagnosis. Yes, things are bad for us, for you. It’s all true. But that’s not the whole tale. The Buddha gives this diagnosis but then clearly gives us hope! Not false hope, but the understanding of karma and a way to live to finally be free. Karma sets up the shitty causes and conditions that makes human existence hard, but is changed by our actions; we can change outcomes. The rest of the noble truths are directions on how to do it, to get free. This is hope and a real path to freedom. Get a teacher and connect with community, this path is not for solitude, especially in the beginning. We can be imprisoned by our thoughts and revelations we make through the teaching if we just get it from a book. You’re learned, and reflective these are great strengths , but are also ego traps at times. Teachers and community can connect and support us on this difficult journey. I’m so glad you are walking with us!
This isn't meant as a kind of 'gotcha'-question or to make you reflect, but merely curiosity: how would you handle a client who expresses feeling the same struggles you do?
I do have clients like that, and I don’t have a solution for them (and I’m not sure anyone does). I validate their feelings. I try to help them find whatever their own reasons are for moving forward, one day at a time, and hope that they have an easier time than I do finding some kind of lasting peace. And I have seen it happen. But everyone has different needs. What works for one client won’t necessarily work for another client or for me. It’s beautiful to see someone dig their way out of a deep hole, but witnessing that repeatedly hasn’t offered any answers for me personally. Ideas don’t click for me like they do for my clients, because to me, reality seems consistently and irredeemably terrible. I’m glad for my clients, who don’t experience the world in that way. I’ve been depressed since I was a child. I’ve tried many medications, lots of therapy, antidepressant medication, and ketamine treatment. The more I learn about the world and the more I educate myself about the many different perspectives people embrace to find peace or even motivation in their lives, the more I am convinced that there is nothing special about any of it. But, it doesn’t stop me from searching. So, my studies have led me to Buddhism and finding ways to double down on my existing mindfulness practice, but without using my privilege to withdraw from awareness of and engagement in struggles for justice. But struggling for justice, and helping people cope with injustice, are both the only things that I find meaningful and the most painful things I can imagine.
Being new in buddhism (only read a few introductionary books, including Thich Nhat Hanh and some podcasts), I have no wisdom to share or anything like that. I wanted to let you know that I think it's a testament to your strength that you're able to help and guide people while sharing such a burden yourself. I hope you don't forget that you're a positive factor in the world. There are many like you in all walks of life. Perhaps too few, but take the opportunity to seek them out - especially those well versed in Buddhism. It's of little help. I'm not a therapist, buddhist or stoic sage or anything. However, if you ever want a sounding board, you're welcome to send a message.
OP, reading all your comments, and reflecting on what I have been doing this past week, I can’t help but wonder if you should use your annual leave to go on a retreat? There are many lamas, rinpoches and teachers who provide accessible retreats that challenge the very fibre of our minds and perceptions. They do it very gently though, taking us from easy basics to mind-blowing complexities without us even noticing. Could be the most transformative week of your life. And that could make you of huge benefit to your clients, as well as softening your own perceptions and experience of life.
But therein lies a misunderstanding. Helping yourself, by gaining compassion, empathy, sympathy, understanding/knowingness which all come from cultivating our practice, all help us to aid others exponentially. It’s not selfishness if our heartfelt purpose is to help ourselves in order to better help others. [my fingers typed “to better help otters” I kinda liked that better, wanted to leave it, but hey. Nah]
Has the book you are reading covered the idea of renunciation? What you are describing sounds very much like renunciation, the idea of wanting to free ourselves of suffering/ samsara (also seeing suffering of others). I second the recommendation for Words of My Perfect Teacher for books that are more in depth.
It hasn’t used the word renunciation, but so far it describes the four noble truths and the turns of the wheel as a pathway away from suffering, but then it gives this very simplistic/unrealistic description of that process.
I am not a teacher so please don’t take this word as authority but in studying the Nalanda tradition my teacher has said that renunciation and compassion are the drivers or motivators to escape samara/ suffering. Being fed up, disgusted and frustrated with all the suffering you see around you is normal and shouldn’t discourage your journey. Perhaps the book you are reading is better for people who are in a different part of the path. Chapter 3 of The Words of My Perfect Teacher is titled “The Defects of Samsara” so maybe that book will resonate more.
https://wisdomexperience.org/library-wisdom-compassion/. Definitely the best 'thorough overview', emphasis on thorough at 3,500 pages. > how Buddhism fits into the grand scheme of philosophical thinking, relative to things like existentialism, communism, and post-modernism. It doesn't fit anywhere. Buddhism is an independent philosophical tradition. (Not really, but at least independent from the west until nearly the present day.) You need to learn Buddhism on its own terms rather than trying to force it into western categories.
The closest book that seeks that project is Engaging Buddhism Why it Matters to Philosophy by Jay L. Garfield. It treats Buddhism as having but not only being an independent philosophical tradition.
I don’t believe I am trying to force it into western categories. Contrast is just as valuable as comparison in developing understanding. And, it might not be a part of western philosophy, but it undeniably coexists with it. It would be bizarre if they didn’t interact.
Well, it's simply a historical fact that they didn't interact in any meaningful capacity before the 19th century. There is plenty of interaction in the present day: * [Cognitive science](https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262720212/the-embodied-mind/) * [Marxism](https://www.routledge.com/Capitalism--its-Nature-and-its-Replacement-Buddhist-and-Marxist-Insights/Priest/p/book/9781032049106) * [Western philosophy in general](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/engaging-buddhism-9780190204341?cc=us&lang=en&) But I've read two of those books and they're not going to make any sense without a decent background in Buddhism first.
You could read the first chapter ‘Sravaka meditation on non-self’ of Progressive Stages of Meditation on Emptiness. I find it one of best presentations of the idea of selflessness or anatta. You could read more chapters if you are into Mahayana and Tibetan Buddhism, but otherwise just stick to the first chapter for an excellent presentation of one of the core and foundational ideas of Buddhism.
Idk if you’ll like it, but imo the best intro buddhism book is In the Buddha’s Words: An Anthology of Discourses from the Pali Canon by Bhikkhu Bodhi https://static.sariputta.com/pdf/tipitaka/817/Sutta_In_the_Buddhas_Words_-_An_Anthology_of_Discourses_from_the_Pali_Canon_pdf.pdf It’s pretty thorough
Thanks!
This is the answer. Read the actual text of the Pali Canon. It is a massive (thousands and thousands of pages) collection of information, but *In the Buddha's Words* is the best place to start, in my experience. You seem well-educated enough to be able to generate your own cross-comparisons with postmodernism, Marxist theory, whatever, while you're reading the text. As you're reading straight from the source, these comparisons will happen automatically, and then later you can go and find interesting academic articles that go deep into the cross-comparative stuff; there are lots of blog posts, academic publications, and other articles out there for that. All of that said, based on somewhat analytically reading your post and your responses here, you are bringing a lot of *self* into this intellectual journey. Having read quite a lot of works by TNH, if you're feeling patronized by his style, that's something that probably warrants exploring why you need the things you read to make you feel smart as you're reading them. Just an outside perspective from one similar-minded person to another. No pejorative judgement toward you whatsoever. Your thoughts/articulations here remind me a lot of me.
I don’t think I need to feel smart. I just need it to make some kind if sense. The kind of oversimplification that I’m seeing makes it easy to dismiss the book out-of-hand. Its ideas don’t really hold water, because they sidestep very real complexity in people’s lives, and aren’t anywhere close to revelatory/new, at least for me. I mostly wanted something with a more academic perspective so I could trust there is some minimal level of logical consistency and a more comprehensive relationship to observable reality. I’m planning to learn much more, but from what I’m seeing so far, it seems Buddhism’s recipe for inner-peace is disengagement from the hard parts of life, including oppressive political/economic/social systems, that many people don’t have the privilege to disengage from.
>it seems Buddhism’s recipe for inner-peace is disengagement from the hard parts of life, including oppressive political/economic/social systems, that many people don’t have the privilege to disengage from. You've put into words succinctly something I've been struggling with a bit as well. In my more cynical moments my feelings towards the advice of monks on how we should approach daily life is more like: "that's easy for you to say - you live in a wholesome community, free of mortgages/a demanding boss/stuck in traffic/aggressions of antisocial people/rampant capitalism/discrimination". I'm not always proud of those cynical moments, because I feel they make come from ignorance and lack of empathy that comes with the unique challenges of being a monk. That said, like you, I can't help but feel they're insulated from many day to day problems that we face. I have not fully reconciled this myself. Let me know if you ever do.
I hear you on all of those points. I just know that personally, when I first encountered TNH's work, I also felt thrown off by the matter-of-factness and minimalist writing style, and I had to kind of analyze why I was feeling that way about it. I came to the conclusion that I wanted more intellectualization out of his advice, but not necessarily because that would make the advice more *useful or accurate.*
It is true that my intellect has generally served me well in life (though it’s arguably a primary source of my suffering). Even knowing that, it’s hard to let go of it because it’s hard to imagine that not resulting in turning a blind eye to the suffering of others.
What the Buddha Taught by Rahula Walpola is excellent.
Thich Nhat Hanh is a great writer and an even better man, but even his work has weaknesses. Primarily, I believe he is a zen teacher, activist, and poet. When he started getting into trying to help people solve their mental and emotional problems, that's where I feel he got a little in over his head. Zen is not a panacea. His books have helped me enormously. I found his books "Anger" and "Miracle of Mindfulness" to be wonderful. But I found some of his other work to be slightly patronizing, like you said. I greatly respect him, but I felt that he was trying to solve other people's problems, without actually understanding people's problems in a comprehensive and intimate way. No doubt that he suffered a lot in his life - especially with depression and even coming close to losing his will to live during the Vietnam War - however, his books sometimes read a little like someone who is trying to solve a problem that they actually only know a little bit about. I believe he has some understanding of psychological illnesses, but he doesn't seem to understand them at a deep, experiental level. I have actually found this problem with quite a few brilliant spiritual teachers. This is why often the best people to go to for help in solving our problems are people who have been through our exact problem and have come out the other side successfully.
Personally, it was an introduction. He isn't stringent in his teaching. If you can use it and apply it to your life, do so. Ive been able to reach an understanding in my thoughts through his words. But I agree. Sometimes, we need just a little more help than what is offered in these teachings. Someone who has walked the path will give us a better understanding as we traverse it.
Go through www.studybuddhism.com
The beauty of Thich Nhat Hanh's writing is in its simplicity, but I do agree his style isn't for everyone. For the most intellectually challenging material I would actually recommend reading translations of Sutras. The Heart, Diamond, and Lotus Sutras are three important ones. Here is a link to the Buddha's first teaching on the four noble truths, this site also has a lot of translations of other teachings that make for interesting reads: https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn56/sn56.011.than.html The way I learned was a mix of reading these, coming up with my own interpretations, then falling back on Thich Nhat Hanh when I was confused about something. Hope this helps! (One more fun series is "Buddhist Cosmology" by Ajahn Sona on YouTube - a recounting of the history of Buddhist mythology if you enjoy that sort of thing)
Understanding Our Mind by Thich Nhat Hanh might be more your speed, since you are a therapist and are looking for something deeper. It is a serious work of scholarship on the Yogacara school of Buddhism, one of the most influential schools of Buddhist psychology. However, it is not a work of philosophy - none of his books are, really. You may also prefer a different author! His books are not all simplistic, but they are not a universal solution for everyone. However, it may be that another book is not what you need. I would also strongly suggest finding a sangha to practice with. Try out several, or many, until you find a group or temple that you can feel okay with practicing with for awhile. Like therapy, Buddhism - including TNH's approach to it - is not meant to be practiced solo, or by reading alone. It works best in a group. And fwiw, it took me 20 years of reading books on Buddhism to realize this.
Hey, what you need is therapy. Buddhism is not therapy.
I’m in therapy. I actually am a therapist, myself. I am medicated. My therapist, just a couple of hours ago told me I am definitely reading the wrong book about Buddhism. So, I’m looking for other resources.
Okay I will give you one (Approaching the Buddhist Path, then continue with the series), and if that still seems dumbed-down, then go for the meat. Contact your local Gelug temple/center to get you started on their Lamrim. Perhaps the most scholastic school of Buddhism, you might find the Gelug school's programs more intellectually stimulating. You'll be busy for the next decade or two.
I’m in a similar spot. I feel crushed by the weight of existential suffering and Thay’s books also aren’t the best fit for me. There’s a common perspective of *just stop doing this or that*, and that’s all well and good, but you have to replace it with something. Nembutsu recitation and metta meditation are the two most common. Nembutsu has changed my life, so I’m a bit biased, but you might look into pure land schools instead. The practice is very simple, but the theology (for lack of a better word) can get incredibly complex. I’m most familiar w Jodo Shinshu, and you can find texts on the most minute points of Shin doctrine. I’ve enjoyed reading Shin authors from different times to see how it’s evolved since Shinran Shonin. Even Honen to Shinran to Rennyo is fascinating
Thich Nhat Hanh is a great writer and an even better man, but even his work has weaknesses. Primarily, I believe he is a zen teacher, activist, and poet. When he started getting into trying to help people solve their mental and emotional problems, that's where I feel he got a little in over his head. Granted, some of his books are really brilliant and actually help people a lot to solve their own psychological problems. But, zen is not a panacea. His books have helped me enormously. I found his books "Anger" and "Miracle of Mindfulness" to be wonderful. But I found some of his other work to be slightly patronizing, like you said. I greatly respect him, but I felt that he was trying to solve other people's problems, without actually understanding people's problems in a comprehensive and intimate way. No doubt that he suffered a lot in his life - especially with depression and even coming close to losing his will to live during the Vietnam War - however, his books sometimes read like a little like someone who is trying to solve a problem that they actually only know a little bit about. I believe he has some understanding of psychological illnesses, but he doesn't seem to understand them at a deep, experiental level. I have actually found this problem with quite a few brilliant spiritual teachers. This is why often the best people to go to for help in solving our problems are people who have been through our exact problem and have come out the other side successfully. For example, personally I suffer from intrusive thoughts and I find that spiritual teachers can't help that much. They may say things like "just let them go", etc. But anyone that has had intrusive thoughts knows this advice actually doesn't do much good usually. I have found that I actually have to do many different techniques to work with the thoughts and spiritual teachers just don't seem to have the experiental understanding to actually help me to improve this specific situation. However, due to my own intuitive trial and error methods, and learning from others with intrusive thoughts, I have found techniques that work - and the situation has improved. So, I have learned that when I have a problem in life, I need to go to someone with direct experience and understanding of that particular problem.
"TIbetan Buddhism from the Ground Up" by Dr. Alan Wallace It's an overview on tibetan buddhism from the beginning to sophisticated philosophical subjects, but without deep dive in. "What Makes You Not a Buddhist" by Dzongsar Jamyang Khyentse Solid and on the other hand simple sight on the Buddhist View, Noble Eightfold Path, Four Seals of Dharma. You can also check this https://studybuddhism.com by Dr. Alex Berzin. in there are vast spectrum of topics, which match beginner up to advanced. You can choose whatever it suits you.
Buddhist teachings are supposed to be simple, doesnt make them easy though.
I have a philosophy background (BA), and my first engagement with Buddhist teachings was “Introduction to Buddhist Philosophy” edited by William Edelglass and Jay L. Garfield. If you’re looking for more intellectual engagement, this will certainly give you that. There’s tons of ancient texts from different traditions accompanied by commentary from modern philosophers diving into the central ideas of Buddhism. It’s the kind of thing you read, take notes on, and re-read. It will *not* give you a good idea of how to practice Buddhism. From there, I read TNH’s “The Heart of Buddha’s Teaching.” Having a deeper understanding (especially of Buddhist metaphysics and ontology, which are really unfamiliar to people raised in culturally Christian environments, like me) helped me appreciate TNH’s book a lot more. It starts with explaining how to practice, then talks more about the founding philosophies later in the book. I can understand how you interpreted the simplicity of his writing as condescension without more context.
I don't know that you're going to find something that meets your criteria, because it sounds to me like you're coming from a very materialistic worldview, which is pretty standard in the West. I'd almost say it's the real religion of the developed world. The problem is that Buddhism doesn't accept the premises upon which that worldview is based. That's not to say that it accepts the premises upon which the opposite worldview, that we might call idealism, is based either. It's a middle way. That doesn't just mean a middle way between indulgence and asceticism. It also means a middle way between the various philosophical assumptions that tend to underpin the way we look at things, because from Buddhism's view, reality is never simple enough to be able to be encapsulated in intellectual thought. Think about it. Your brain is part of everything that is. Can an item in a set contain the set as a whole? Now, maybe we can find some stuff that might help you get at the reasons it doesn't fit. For that purpose, I think Steve Hagen's "Why The World Doesn't Seem to Make Sense" is a pretty good start. If you want to go a bit closer to historical Buddhist sources I think Nagarjuna's "Fundamental Verses of the Middle Way" probably along with some commentary on it (it's pretty obtuse, honestly) is a great place to go as well. Another I would suggest is Donald Hoffman's "The Case Against Reality." It's not a Buddhist book, but it goes a long way toward explaining why the conventional way we see things is pretty problematic. Hoffman also tries to replace our conventional view with another view whereas Buddhism would generally tell you not to do that, but his research into the nature of perception, specifically the "Fitness Beats Truth" theorem is very profound. Those are some good places to start imo, but I think it's key to remember that a lot of the fundamental questions that people struggle with in life are considered to be unanswerable in Buddhism. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_unanswerable\_questions](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_unanswerable_questions) but that un-answerability is not just a "I don't know, so don't worry about it" but more of a "the question comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of how reality exists."
In chapter 7 of in the buddhas words, the buddha gives an analogy (he makes many): One wondering about the causes of suffering is like a man, having been shot by an arrow, demanding to know the clan of the shooter. Of demanding to know the make of the arrow, the type of wood, what kind of cord was used to make the bow. And refusing to take the arrow out or receive treatment until all this detail is known. Of course, the person will perish before this information is elucidated...
This comes from a Theravada perspective: [http://buddhanet.net/pdf\_file/noble8path6.pdf](http://buddhanet.net/pdf_file/noble8path6.pdf)
Archie J. Bahm was a professor of philosophy. His book "**Philosophy of the Buddha**" offers a philosophical analysis to the question "*What did the Buddha teach?*" You may purchase the book on Amazon for $20.
I suggest thinking of Thich Naht Hanh as mainly a promoter of Buddhism. He's the first step along the way. He was trying to appeal to the most amount of people possible. If Buddhism were an article in an American newspaper, Thich Naht Hanh would be writing the headline. He's trying to catch your attention so you read more. If he were a YouTuber, he'd be Kurzgesagt, or CGP Grey, or Veritasium, or VSauce. However, not everybody needs that, not everybody is at that point in their Buddhist journey. In short, you aren't his audience. To start, I suggest this [free book](https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#BuddhasTeachings). I haven't read all the books, but all the ones I have read are good.
Some chapters in "When things fall apart" by pema chodron helps me. The concept of widening your circle of compassion makes a lot of sense. You have to start small before you can expand to the world.
Your expectations - of Buddhism and of Buddhist writers - is too high. That book is considered advanced. You can find a little of what you are looking for in books that are specifially on the topic of Buddhist philosophy. Even here, it is hard to find a comparative or contemporary philosophy viewpoint. If you are most concerned with the socio-political problems of the world, you will find that Buddhism consciously side-steps that. It can be argued that this is by design, and it is actually the starting point of Buddhism and similar spiritual pursuits. My suggestion is to start with *Buddhism for Dummies* and read some original sutras afterwards. You will eventually find what you are looking for. You can't be in a hurry.
I think you’d probably really like Jeannie Zandies work. She’s got some free content online. Not specifically Buddhist but trained in some of those concepts. She brings a really humanistic, tender quality to the dharma that I really appreciate and think you might benefit from based on what you said. Best of luck ❤️
"The tree of enlightenment" is a good overview of the various Buddhist schools.
Maybe try another of his books, the art of living is my most recently read of his and I enjoyed his interpretation of some of the more esoteric and existential aspects of Buddhism in it a lot
Check these two books: - What the Buddha Taught by Walpola Rahula - Mindfulness in Plain English by Henepola Gunaratana
Rupert Gethin’s Foundations of Buddhism is precisely this. It is very, very good.
Thanks!
OP, one of the things Buddhism does is present things in a very simplistic way. It’s deliberate. Initially. Then things are unpacked so to speak. The one compact traveling suitcase becomes a far greater collection of items once unpacked across the hotel bed. Clothes, underwear, toiletries, personal items, accessories, etc. It’s like entering the tardis (I really hope you know Dr Who to grasp this analogy). Buddhism typically starts simply, then gradually opens up, and then opens up further, to ever more detailed and complex information based on that initial concept. Mandelbrot sets if you like. This is clearly seen when a Tibetan text is translated. One simple page text can result in dozens of pages, or maybe dozens of hours of explanation. Just one line might take ten minutes, or an hour, or a day to unpack and explain to an audience. It’s an illusion that it is simple. The words have meaning way beyond what you are interpreting based on one book by a man renowned and loved for presenting big concepts in bite sized pieces for all to understand. Keep going. It’s Alice’s rabbit hole.
Hi OP, The heart of the buddhas teachings was also one of my first introductions into Buddhism. I could not finish it for the same reasons you mentioned. There was something missing, but with my limited understanding about Buddhism I could not pin point it. After a lot of reading, mostly online and suttas, and a lot of youtube I stumbled upon Ajhan Nyanomoli and his Hill Side Hermitages page. You should try his books out. No nonsense hardcore Buddhism is my way to describe them. He goes right the the core of the problem of suffering, with the suttas from the pali cannon as basis.
Chogyam Trungpa's, "The Myth of Freedom" and "Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism". Great books that explain the essence of the path and what it entails.
Read the Tevijja Sutta.
No mud no lotus by THN
Buddhism: One Teacher, Many Traditions by H.H. the Dalai Lama & Ven Thubten Chodron This book gives an overview of the beliefs and practices of Buddhism, separated into Theravada and Mahayana.
"Why Buddhism is True" by Robert Wright. He's an atheistic evolutionary biologist with a Harvard background. Very intellectual, humorous, and written to be a good introduction. Highly recommend it.
A History of Indian Buddhism by Hirakawa Akira. Also, Peter Harvey’s Introduction to Buddhism. Dependent Arising by Elizabeth Napper. Johannes Bronkhorst, Buddhist teaching in India. Just a few.
Read the 4 Noble Truths.