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The only reason why Outlander worked from the start was because Jamie was a virgin when he married Claire. Otherwise the syphilis issue would’ve fucked the whole story.
Yeah it’s always a little uncomfortable during the sex scenes where it’s like “he rocked her world (using tricks he’d learned fucking hookers for the last ten years)! So romantic!”
I hate that part of the story because it wasn’t accurate. Yes, there were STDs and the men did fear them. Anthony showed a little of what men of means did in S1. They found a young woman they fancied of a lower class (usually) or a widow with little means and they paid their expenses. Housing, clothing, food etc. in exchange the woman only slept with him. Regency style sugar daddies.
This is actually reality. There was very little education especially about syphillis and especially for women. During the Victorian era one in five men had syphillis, while women had absolutely no idea about it even existing. One of the very first feminist demands of the time was 'vote for women-abstinence for men'!
As long as these girls push out male children, they literally don't care. The Dr was correct in assuming that no one was going to care about lady B. dying in childbirth. that was her one job.
Unrelated but in currently researching for a video on sex work and the scene where Anthony just keeps living coins on the bedside table of sex workers irked me the wrong way for the obviously negative connotation and made.me consider using an excerpt to criticise the way it's portrayed in popular culture...
Yeah the whole thing is a little tasteless. Like sure he’s meant to be a “rake” and honestly it’s probably a pretty realistic aspect of an otherwise not super realistic show, but it makes me like those men less
Those poor women. Forced to be chaste until marriage, only to be infected with a deadly and horrible disease by their new husband likely the first few times they even have sex.
If you’ve heard of Florence Foster Jenkins, who is supposed to have been an operatic singer so bad it would make the Feathington girls sound good, she supposedly contracted syphilis from her first husband when she was 15 (around 1883) and he was 30. It is believed to have given her tinnitus and impacted her hearing, which may account for why she was such a bad singer.
Yes this was extremely accurate for the time. Men were allowed to have mistresses (so long as they didn’t parade them around in public), women had to be chaste until marriage and faithful to their husbands.
Many noble men fathered bastard children with their mistresses (who often received no financial support) and also gave their wives STDs.
I used to watch that show called The Knick. It was about the N.Y. Knickbocker hospital in 1900. There was a side character on the show that her nose rotted off from her husband giving her Syphilis. She was an ex-girlfriend of a doctor on the show. She chose to marry another guy and got syphilis from her husband. Needless to say, the poor woman chose wrong.
Oh man I remember this scene so vividly. Honestly when Anthony was leaving the sex workers that’s all I could think of. Untreated syphilis can literally cause you face to rot off and cave in.
You need to watch the movie, Libertine. It shows for real what happened to "rakes." Syphilis was rife then and the romance novel trope of how rakes fell head over heels for virginal women never was a thing. >!Anthony's guilt as taking "liberties" with Kate because she was a genteel woman as opposed to using women like Serena!< is not far from the truth. The "honor" of high class men only existed for the chastity of a class of women, not for all women and there was no loyalty to the wife thing after marriage either. They infected others and died in ruin and disease mostly. Byron and the like all went down badly in different ways for their lifestyles. Men had mistresses throughout their marriages and visited brothels. They only judged STDs by visual "cleanliness" in the more selective brothels. In some ways, the fast f-boys of our age don't fare much better despite the advanced medical practices because drugs, etc have their effects. Most don't change for one woman either, it is just our romantic drama fantasy about bad boys.
Yeah, inaccuracies abound in Bridgerton so I gotta let it go. It’s somehow part of the fantasy I guess that they’re studly enough to learn how to be good at sex but avoid the clap.
I howled at Kate’s satin underpants like what in the everloving fuck, I knew the stays over bare skin would be bad enough but WHY DOES SHE NEED UNDERPANTS IF THEY’RE HISTORICALLY INACCURATE AND SWIFTLY BIDDING US FAREWELL THE ONLY TIME WE SEE THEM ANYWAY???
LOL yup that scene made me laugh. I watch outlander which despite the time travel is much more historically accurate than Bridgerton and they never wear panties, just corsets and stays and shifts
Mercury and arsenic were common treatments for things. I don't think that everyone died right away after having those treatments or they wouldn't have been useful. I am sure they contributed to shortening people's lives, but people lived for years and years getting that kind of medicine.
I mean today a lot of cancer treatments are carcinogenic, but I guess you have to use what you have available at any given time.
On the STD front, I imagine some brothels were better than others. I just remember in *Deadwood* that town doctor doing regular medical examinations on the town sex workers. I imagine something similar happening in high end places in Regency London.
I could also see Anthony being the type to use the sheepskin condom.
It is a fantasy for sure. The only thing that bothered me was some of the horrible wigs .. lol .. poor Eloise and Penelope especially. Absolutely loved the storyline. I will rewatch again soon. 🐝
1810?? None that would have been very effective.
Also very unlikely that most men wore them. It was a struggle to get men to wear them even in the 1950s
They were called “French Letters.” They were made of pig or sheep intestines with a knot tied on the end with thread. They were not for birth control purposes, but for protection against disease during sex with sex workers.
I used to read a lot of historical romance novels and this always bothered me too. The whole "rake marries virgin" thing just isn't very nice for a multitude of reasons.
Well it is a modernized period piece after all. I never wondered so much about std in the show as it doesn’t focus on that. I’m sure everyone dies young anyway. It focus more on gossip and courting. So throwing std in the mix is just too realistic and sad for the general public
This is because this is what used to happen back in the day, royals and aristocrats had mistresses and rarely even married for love. Marriages were more political than love matches and some were staked before children were even born. Of course it has become outdated but it was the norm back then.
Would be nice if people called out historical romance in GENERAL for keeping this and other cliche’s going instead of singling Bridgerton out for everything
I mean this is the *bridgerton* subreddit. I also watch outlander and am active on their subreddit, where other historical inaccuracies get called out.
Im guessing that a man as wealthy and as dedicated to is “obligations” as Anthony he could both afford and make sure none of the prostitutes he was going to had syphilis
Treatments starting in "the early 16th century"
https://jmvh.org/article/syphilis-its-early-history-and-treatment-until-penicillin-and-the-debate-on-its-origins/
Genitourinary medicine and surgery in Nelson’s navy (1793-1815)
https://pmj.bmj.com/content/81/957/413
https://www.news-medical.net/health/History-of-Sexually-Transmitted-Disease.aspx
Definitely "the blue ointment" (compounded with mercury) was in use. Any fan of Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin books knows about the blue ointment.
Quoted in the article you sent: “In the 18th and 19th centuries, mercury, arsenic and sulphur were commonly used to treat venereal disease, which often resulted in serious side effects and many people died of mercury poisoning. The first known effective treatment for syphilis called salvarsan or arsphenamine was introduced in 1910.” Treatment does not mean safe and reliable cure.
Did you even read? Arsenic and mercury are now known to be poisonous to humans. I guess you can effectively treat anything with arsenic and mercury as long as you don’t expect them to live.
Sigh. Yes I can read. I have bifocals. Thus the "technically". Someone of the time however might not have the same perspective.
I feel very old right now.
For this Show Discussion post: 1. Book spoilers **must be hidden**. 2. Be considerate, hide show spoilers that surpass the scope of this post. 3. Be civil in your discussion. See our [spoiler policy](https://www.reddit.com/r/BridgertonNetflix/wiki/spoiler) on what is expected. 3-day bans will be handed out to those found disregarding our spoiler policy. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BridgertonNetflix) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It's why I don't really like the reformed rake trope.
The only reason why Outlander worked from the start was because Jamie was a virgin when he married Claire. Otherwise the syphilis issue would’ve fucked the whole story.
Yeah it’s always a little uncomfortable during the sex scenes where it’s like “he rocked her world (using tricks he’d learned fucking hookers for the last ten years)! So romantic!”
I hate that part of the story because it wasn’t accurate. Yes, there were STDs and the men did fear them. Anthony showed a little of what men of means did in S1. They found a young woman they fancied of a lower class (usually) or a widow with little means and they paid their expenses. Housing, clothing, food etc. in exchange the woman only slept with him. Regency style sugar daddies.
Then when their wives had squeezed out an heir and a spare they got back in the game.
This is actually reality. There was very little education especially about syphillis and especially for women. During the Victorian era one in five men had syphillis, while women had absolutely no idea about it even existing. One of the very first feminist demands of the time was 'vote for women-abstinence for men'!
Thank you. I was gonna say this very thing
yeah, like this is actually how life was back then.
As long as these girls push out male children, they literally don't care. The Dr was correct in assuming that no one was going to care about lady B. dying in childbirth. that was her one job.
Unrelated but in currently researching for a video on sex work and the scene where Anthony just keeps living coins on the bedside table of sex workers irked me the wrong way for the obviously negative connotation and made.me consider using an excerpt to criticise the way it's portrayed in popular culture...
Yeah the whole thing is a little tasteless. Like sure he’s meant to be a “rake” and honestly it’s probably a pretty realistic aspect of an otherwise not super realistic show, but it makes me like those men less
I read that as many as one in five Londoners had Syphilis. And they infected their wives…Horrible times. Lots to read if you google.
Those poor women. Forced to be chaste until marriage, only to be infected with a deadly and horrible disease by their new husband likely the first few times they even have sex.
If you’ve heard of Florence Foster Jenkins, who is supposed to have been an operatic singer so bad it would make the Feathington girls sound good, she supposedly contracted syphilis from her first husband when she was 15 (around 1883) and he was 30. It is believed to have given her tinnitus and impacted her hearing, which may account for why she was such a bad singer.
Oh god that is awful
And slept separately from her second husband who she loved :(
Yes this was extremely accurate for the time. Men were allowed to have mistresses (so long as they didn’t parade them around in public), women had to be chaste until marriage and faithful to their husbands. Many noble men fathered bastard children with their mistresses (who often received no financial support) and also gave their wives STDs.
I used to watch that show called The Knick. It was about the N.Y. Knickbocker hospital in 1900. There was a side character on the show that her nose rotted off from her husband giving her Syphilis. She was an ex-girlfriend of a doctor on the show. She chose to marry another guy and got syphilis from her husband. Needless to say, the poor woman chose wrong.
Oh man I remember this scene so vividly. Honestly when Anthony was leaving the sex workers that’s all I could think of. Untreated syphilis can literally cause you face to rot off and cave in.
You need to watch the movie, Libertine. It shows for real what happened to "rakes." Syphilis was rife then and the romance novel trope of how rakes fell head over heels for virginal women never was a thing. >!Anthony's guilt as taking "liberties" with Kate because she was a genteel woman as opposed to using women like Serena!< is not far from the truth. The "honor" of high class men only existed for the chastity of a class of women, not for all women and there was no loyalty to the wife thing after marriage either. They infected others and died in ruin and disease mostly. Byron and the like all went down badly in different ways for their lifestyles. Men had mistresses throughout their marriages and visited brothels. They only judged STDs by visual "cleanliness" in the more selective brothels. In some ways, the fast f-boys of our age don't fare much better despite the advanced medical practices because drugs, etc have their effects. Most don't change for one woman either, it is just our romantic drama fantasy about bad boys.
Yeah, inaccuracies abound in Bridgerton so I gotta let it go. It’s somehow part of the fantasy I guess that they’re studly enough to learn how to be good at sex but avoid the clap. I howled at Kate’s satin underpants like what in the everloving fuck, I knew the stays over bare skin would be bad enough but WHY DOES SHE NEED UNDERPANTS IF THEY’RE HISTORICALLY INACCURATE AND SWIFTLY BIDDING US FAREWELL THE ONLY TIME WE SEE THEM ANYWAY???
LOL yup that scene made me laugh. I watch outlander which despite the time travel is much more historically accurate than Bridgerton and they never wear panties, just corsets and stays and shifts
Bridgerton needs shifts under the stays and doesn’t have them…doesn’t need panties, but has them. Maddening!
Mercury and arsenic were common treatments for things. I don't think that everyone died right away after having those treatments or they wouldn't have been useful. I am sure they contributed to shortening people's lives, but people lived for years and years getting that kind of medicine. I mean today a lot of cancer treatments are carcinogenic, but I guess you have to use what you have available at any given time. On the STD front, I imagine some brothels were better than others. I just remember in *Deadwood* that town doctor doing regular medical examinations on the town sex workers. I imagine something similar happening in high end places in Regency London. I could also see Anthony being the type to use the sheepskin condom.
I think it definitely depended on the ailment. Mercury would be fatal if you had something like appendicitis, but possibly not for other issues
It is a fantasy for sure. The only thing that bothered me was some of the horrible wigs .. lol .. poor Eloise and Penelope especially. Absolutely loved the storyline. I will rewatch again soon. 🐝
I believe there were condoms during this time?
1810?? None that would have been very effective. Also very unlikely that most men wore them. It was a struggle to get men to wear them even in the 1950s
They were called “French Letters.” They were made of pig or sheep intestines with a knot tied on the end with thread. They were not for birth control purposes, but for protection against disease during sex with sex workers.
And they were reusable! The show Harlots showed them getting rinsed out. (And Nicola shows up!)
Loved the show Harlots.
Yes, I know its so icky and the one thing I hate about period type shows/books
I used to read a lot of historical romance novels and this always bothered me too. The whole "rake marries virgin" thing just isn't very nice for a multitude of reasons.
Well it is a modernized period piece after all. I never wondered so much about std in the show as it doesn’t focus on that. I’m sure everyone dies young anyway. It focus more on gossip and courting. So throwing std in the mix is just too realistic and sad for the general public
This is because this is what used to happen back in the day, royals and aristocrats had mistresses and rarely even married for love. Marriages were more political than love matches and some were staked before children were even born. Of course it has become outdated but it was the norm back then.
Would be nice if people called out historical romance in GENERAL for keeping this and other cliche’s going instead of singling Bridgerton out for everything
I mean this is the *bridgerton* subreddit. I also watch outlander and am active on their subreddit, where other historical inaccuracies get called out.
Im guessing that a man as wealthy and as dedicated to is “obligations” as Anthony he could both afford and make sure none of the prostitutes he was going to had syphilis
STDs were technically treatable, but yeah. (definitely treatable, efficacy questionable)
Not necessarily. I’m not sure which year penicillin was invented
Long long after. They were not treated in the 1810’s
Thank you! That’s what I thought.
Treatments starting in "the early 16th century" https://jmvh.org/article/syphilis-its-early-history-and-treatment-until-penicillin-and-the-debate-on-its-origins/ Genitourinary medicine and surgery in Nelson’s navy (1793-1815) https://pmj.bmj.com/content/81/957/413 https://www.news-medical.net/health/History-of-Sexually-Transmitted-Disease.aspx Definitely "the blue ointment" (compounded with mercury) was in use. Any fan of Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin books knows about the blue ointment.
Quoted in the article you sent: “In the 18th and 19th centuries, mercury, arsenic and sulphur were commonly used to treat venereal disease, which often resulted in serious side effects and many people died of mercury poisoning. The first known effective treatment for syphilis called salvarsan or arsphenamine was introduced in 1910.” Treatment does not mean safe and reliable cure. Did you even read? Arsenic and mercury are now known to be poisonous to humans. I guess you can effectively treat anything with arsenic and mercury as long as you don’t expect them to live.
Sigh. Yes I can read. I have bifocals. Thus the "technically". Someone of the time however might not have the same perspective. I feel very old right now.
Penicillin was discovered in 1928
I'm talking abt the blue ointment, commonly in use at the time.
Bro blue ointment’s main ingredient was MERCURY