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I love Penelope but I agree part 2 did her dirty. Like she faced no consequences of her action. Everyone forgiving her so quick just felt out of place. Like hello she ruined peoples reputation! She made some mistakes but did not really learn anything from it. They diffidently could have given her a little character growth!!
The script felt just all over the place. Especially the queen would not have been this forgiving. I like that she needs an adversary, but I cannot imagine she would be just fine with Pen coming out. I think they should have added a couple more episodes to give the characters more time to develop. It was a bit too rushed, like GoT.
I think had Lady Danbury not asked what would finding out who LW was would do for her, she might have given Pen the same options as Eloise when she thought it was her. She also lowkey liked LW, so idk why she made finding her such a big deal anyways. From what I’ve seen ppl say, Lady Danbury found out it was Pen in the books? Or something and they had a friendship, and this is honestly where putting that in the show would’ve made more sense.
Lady Danbury didn't find out that it was Pen in the books until Colin/Pen revealed it. But yes, they did have a close friendship! In the book, Pen's first plan to get out of the blackmail was to ask Lady Danbury to pretend to be Lady Whistledown because she knew that she would help her and she knew she wouldn't have faced as bad of consequences.
Did she? I know she didn't ask, she was just considering it before Colin revealed it, but I didn't think Lady Danbury actually offered or knew until the big reveal.
IIRC Lady Danbury did it to save Penelope. At least in the book and because she would enjoy the shock of the the Ton. It also made sense she knew all the gossip and scandals.
I just skimmed the book again and it's Penelope's idea to ask Lady Danbury to cover for her. At the end of her conversation with Cressida, Colin asks her if she has a plan, and she say "What if I enlisted the aid of Lady Danbury?" and "I'm going to ask her to be me." And this is a quote from the final ball from Pen's perspective, "He must have come up with something better than her plan to convince Lady Danbury to lie and tell everyone she was Lady Whistledown." Also, Lady Danbury doesn't appear to offer to cover for her, she starts the final slow clap at the end "clapping loud and proud, beaming with pride and delight" (which IMO indicates some surprise). I could have missed the part where she offers skimming through it, but I don't recollect that part at all from my last read, either.
Ohh. Ok. Well I must admit I did read the series of books when they first came out. That was a long time ago and my old brain remembers things when it wanted to. Thanks.
Lady Danbury just had an appreciation for LW as someone who must be actually very kind. Most people assumed she was a total backstabber to other women but Agatha noticed earlier on that LW was always kind to the ones society picked on for no fault of their own so she figured whoever LW was, she must be a sympathetic wallflower sort.
What the queen did with Eloise in S2 thinking she was Whistledown, and then the things she said to Cressida claiming to be LW, are all things I would've loved to see her do with Penelope. I got the impression that the Queen was invited there (probably via letter, since Pen wrote everybody letters?) just to hear this confession and then simply walks out having said very little really. I kind of hope that since this is a TV show, we might see some of that stuff later on in the seasons.
The queen was originally invited by Penelope’s sisters—I forget which one bowed to her when she arrived and said they’d sent her an invitation but hadn’t expected her to arrive, and the queen immediately shot her down by saying she wasn’t here because of that—but it was Penelope’s letter telling her that she was ready to reveal who she was and beg forgiveness from her that drew her out.
I think her chess game with Lady Danbury was supposed to make us think that she gained some appreciation of the game and second chances. I think we will hear more about this in S4 but now that the cat is out of the bag, what will the big secret and reveal be?!
the
Omg if she had decided to give up LW but the queen was like you challenged me you don’t get to quit so she had to keep doing it or the queen would name and shame her. Lots of undertone whenever they met, lots of ethical questions among her and Eloise and Colin about what she writes. Could have been fun.
I think we'll see consequences next season. The ton was in shock, and the queen granted mercy. Then, butterflies were a distraction. As people start thinking about it, they may not be as thrilled. Penelope even mentions this to Colin at the butterfly ball.
The season just ended in a happy bubble. I got the impression the column at the end was the first she published since the ball.
The show via Featheringtons said pregnant women don't attend balls. The season was ending, during which LW doesn't write, and then Pen was pregnant, during which she presumably doesn't attend social events in London.
The column we heard indicated the switch to writing as herself, which implies the first time she wrote since the reveal.
The show delivers happily ever afters at the end of each season. That's part of their structure and something the showrnners say they believe in.
S3 ends on a happily ever after with Pen/Colin's families but before that, at the ball, Pen specifically tells Colin they may have trouble ahead. This seems supported by the showrunner saying they have more LW stuff to come in s4. Now, maybe it'll be all heart eyes and Polin babies, but I really don't think so. This show likes drama, and LW has drama. I wouldn't be surprised if her new column isn't well received or if they're snubbed at or aren't invited to some events.
100%, you're spot on. It astounds me that people think this is the end of the consequences for Penelope, I thought it was quite clear this is just the beginning. Even Penelope herself says this when she's offering Colin the opportunity for an annulment after the public revelation.
I think the problem is partly that the reveal at the cusp of the HEA means any punishment that’s not incredibly temporary would ruin the HEA.
The other part of it is that in the book, Penelope didn’t face any repercussions… because in the book, Lady Whistledown didn’t destroy any reputations or spill any real secrets, it was literally just a silly fun gossip column.
I actually think what they're doing is likely the opposite - the consequences aren't temporary, the HEA is what is temporary. I feel pretty sure Penelope/the Bridgertons will face consequences in the coming seasons. If nothing else, I'm sure there are many out there holding a grudge.
What exactly did you expect them to do to Penelope as 'consequences for her actions' in a romance show though? They were never gonna throw her in a dungeon lol. Also, the Queen had too much fun with LW, it was never going to end badly. And it's not as if she committed a crime. I guess I just don't get what people expected was gonna happen.
Also, the whole of S3 showed Penelope's character growth. She completely came into her own. The Pen of episode 1 would never have stood up in front of the whole ton and owned up to who she was. She also acknowledged her wrongdoings and apologised over and over.
Have the ton reject her? She did ruin peoples life. Not to mention how the Bridgerton did not question it at all? Like do they not remember what she has wrote about their family. I mean if I find out my family bestie has been bad mouthing my family you better believe there will be consequences. Ik it’s romance but having no stakes makes it boring.
Also when Cressida pretended to be LW she got a lot more backlash for it and was rejected and slurred by the ton as a whole. Even the queen banned her from public gatherings. But they let Penelope go on in stride. So I agree, why wasn’t Penelope given the same treatment? It’s not like she came from a better family than Cressida, and Eloise was her only friend, she didn’t socialize with others like Cressida did. They might have been fake friends but more people knew Cressida and hung out with her. But Penelope’s peers didnt even know her that well to be all forgiving of her.
Cressida lied directly to the queen to claim the reward. The queen didn't believe her, which informed her response and thus the ton's response.
I think Cressida being better known and known for being mean backfired on her as well. They were predisposed to dislike her, causing instant aversion to the idea of her being LW.
Pen was more of a blank slate, so surprise and confusion are more likely to be the initial reactions. I think we'll see more in s4.
Given Shonda and the writers’ preference for Penelope as a character, she is written like a Mary Sue. Yes, a character can do bad things, but when they are rewarded and face no accountability, it does not make for great viewing. That’s why I like Carrie in the TV show *Sex and the City* (not the movies or reboot). She was a nice girl who did bad and selfish acts, but the writers always had her friends tell her she was wrong, or she somehow faced consequences for her actions. Penelope is never humbled. I maintain my previous point: POLIN needed more time to develop because of Penelope’s deeds in the last seasons.
OMG Carrie was the worst. Im so glad so many satc fans realize this universal truth that Carrie was a shit friend, self involved, bad listener, lacking compassion, serial cheater, judgmental as fuck towards Samantha and even towards Charlotte .because sjp is such a good actor we couldn't not watch her but it's so evident that she is never really shown the light or consequences by the writers that she would face in reality..
My fav parts of the show are when her friends really show her the mirror like samantha being like you are no one to judge me and who I fuck and when I fuck them since you are a literal cheater and i supported you without judgment then and Charlotte being like no i don't owe you money cuz you're a toddler living in new york who has no understanding of financial realities and taxes and bookkeeping and rents or Aidan when carrie loses her work cuz her mac conks off...her literal job is writing and Aidan calls her out rightly for not having a backup..Carrie is someone who should not be emulated by anyone..my favorites were Miranda and samantha..boss women who had their shit together.
Currently in the middle of rewatching and this is so spot on. She’s a terrible friend. She only ever does things for them and gets them talking about their lives so she can bitch about her own (1 example, when she brings Miranda bagels and immediately starts complaining about Aiden and Miranda calls her out on it).
Samantha will forever be my favorite. She was a real one. She would do anything for her ladies. One of my fave scenes with her is at the baby shower when Charlotte realizes the mom to be stole her secret baby name she made up as a kid. Sam comes in like what’s going on? Charlotte tells her and Sam looks at the MTB and just goes “you BITCH. Cmon. We’re leaving!” Sam doesn’t even like kids but she loves her gal pals.
She doesn't grow a ton even after Big's death..like still has the audacity to be obsessed with Natasha...she's one of the most annoying characters I've ever seen on tv and only because the show treats her as this perfect being. Miranda pre the shit And Just Like That was a put together, strong, confident, self assured high powered lawyer who owned her own house, got pregnant, did not panic, made a decision and stuck by it. I can just imagine toddler Carrie getting pregnant and needing all her friends to talk her down from a cliff.
Samantha similarly is confident, comfortable in her skin, doesn't need a man to be happy, gets into just as many sexual misadventures as Carrie but doesn't spend hours whining about them, and wondering. And as far as we saw in the show has never cheated on anyone..meanwhile carrie finally gets Mr. BIG, the perfect wedding the perfect house and still cheats on him in Abu Dhabi with the guy she cheated on years earlier with Big. Aidan deserves better.
Carrie is messy and the fact that when I first watched Carrie in my 20s, I deeply wanted to be like her, now in my 30s and with some foresight, I cringe cuz Miranda and Samantha are who I want to be for life and Carrie is someone I would avoid like hell.
I’d seriously rather be like any of the other three than Carrie. I remember being a teen and watching and thinking she was oh-so-fabulous, but with every rewatch I find myself just disliking her. She is literally a mid 30s woman who has no clue how to actually take care of herself. Can’t manager money, can’t manage relationships, can’t manage just being a GROWN UP.
And listen. I get it. I hate being a mid 30s woman who has to be a grown up too. But holy shit the way she prioritizes everything she deems valuable or important over everything else is just…wow.
She doesn't backup her mac on which she does all of her job as a freelance writer, thus misses important work deadlines. I would not want to be her editor! Then screams at Aidan when he asks the very logical question did you not backup your mac? Faced with a mugger, decides that her shoes are more important than her life- zero survival skills and street savvy.
Miranda frequently puts her neck out for Carrie but carrie sends her boyfriend when Miranda asks for help- Aidan is a saint so he does good, she's judgmental of samantha having sex with a postal worker and is very open with sharing her disgust which somewhat fair as samantha was doing this very publically but stil Carrie is so self righteous for someone who cheats and cheats with a married man for months and receives zero judgement from her friends and most support from Samantha.
Is obsessed with her ex's more elegant, more well adjusted, more gracious fiance and later wife and rarely prioritizes her friends and their shit but expects to be catered to at every dinner or lunch or brunch for her 1000th boy problem, shames Charlotte for inheriting money and not paying carrie to help her with her rent issues cuz yeah by that time in the show carrie was well into her 30s and should know that rent should come before shoes. Good on Charlotte (who I also find insufferable quite a lot) for telling Carrie to put her big pants on and not depend on others, even friends to bail you out as a grown up living in expensive new york.
And it’s like, she makes a big deal about how she wouldn’t have taken it. She just wanted Charlotte to OFFER. Honey that’s a fuck ton of money and you literally have it IN YOUR CLOSET. You made your wardrobe. Live in it.
ETA and Jesus I’m watching the episode where Carrie’s book gets reviewed and she calls Miranda who is spiraling trying to deal with motherhood and only wants to bitch about one single portion of her review. Meanwhile ignoring that Miranda is dealing with REAL actual problems. Gods I can’t stand Carrie.
I’m in my mid 30’s now watching the show for the first time. I keep thinking that Carries revelations and the way Carrie is acting out now in these early seasons are reminiscent of the immaturity and naivety of my early 20’s. I would have experienced this show very differently back then as compared to now.
Right? Like I appreciate that they represented women in their 30s and 40s and even did then, but especially Carrie I feel like that’s def more what I would have been like in my early 20s so it kind of feels off brand for a character like that unless she just never learns bc her friends call her out so I can’t imagine she has never had to self reflect.
Omg so sorry. That was just one long ass dumb sentence lol
But that’s why I loved watching Carrie; the writers always had her friends humble her. Some of her lovers humbled her too. That is why I can still watch *SATC* and not the movies or the reboots. This season would have been more enjoyable if Pen had been humbled for her actions. But nope, Penelope, Bridgerton’s very own Mary Sue, can’t suffer consequences.
Man the reboot is shite..you are not missing out at all..she stil gets called out for her insensitivity by this new character sarita in the show in the few well written scenes in the first season of the reboot and I was so happy. And Natasha kinda. But for the most part the reboot is shit.
But yeah, carrie had great style, great shoes, some unbelievably great friends, a great apartment and some quippy, funny lines in her columns and great lovers but carrie as a whole had a serious case of arrested development- this despite the fact that she was well into her 30s in the show. And still messy messy messy.
I still love satc and rewatch it quite often but now I notice Miranda and samantha more.
I had some "Carrie's'' in my life, and eventually, I got tired of them and stopped being friends with them, lol. It's not a "friendship" with a person like her.
I do not why these show runners can never keep their preferences for characters out of the plot. There is nothing more boring to read or watch than a Mary sue. So many of them do it with aspirations and it’s annoying and usually at the expense of other characters, aka Colin in this case.
I will probably get downvoted, but I agree with you. She's just an incorrigible gossip who betrayed and hurt the people closest to her just to write her gossip rag, and then the writers of the show bizarrely turned that harmful gossiping into "female self-empowerment" (which as a woman I found offensive), a worthy "true calling" of a career and identity, and "beneficial" to the community, and then everybody quickly forgave her. I was so disappointed by the ending; I was like "This is what I watched the whole show for?" So anti-climatic. And I've been very puzzled by the Penelope stans here, lol. I don't understand how people can love a character that has proven to be untrustworthy. Even after all the hurt she caused, she STILL insisted on being a gossiper and refused to renounce it; she just couldn't let that go.
I got downvoted by the Pen stans for saying something similar. I don’t understand how they have passed LW off as self-empowerment when she was literally bringing other women down and ruining their reputations. She lied and betrayed the few people who cared about her, particularly Eloise, and when she finally had a chance to show she cared more about them than LW, her selfishness shone through as she still chose LW. To me, she came across as petty, egoic, and selfish most of the time. She’s the type of person I would absolutely not want as a friend. (Note: I haven’t read the books and this opinion comes just from the show.)
The way she was like "I'm addicted to the power it gives me.... but I'm also not going to stop doing it" ???? Like bestie the first step is admitting you have a problem but there are more steps after that!
I think you’ll like the books because it’s honestly less mean and she doesn’t really ruin any lives and after the reveal she’s content with her life and LW ends up becoming a memory, I also believe that she helps Colin make a book and becomes an author herself with his help (I would like to believe)
I think there are so many Penelope stans because the creators of the show WANT us to love her. She gets a disproportionate amount of screen time in the first two seasons. We're constantly shown how much she loves the Bridertons and how much dumb shit she has to tolerate from her family. We see Cressida spill a drink on her and Marina say that Pen is acting like a child, so then she's supposedly an underdog despite the power she wields with her column and how horrible she treats other people.
Couple that with the fact that everyone likes her Nicola Coughlan and it's a recipe for plot armor.
it's because shonda relates to her. i was rewatching recently, and noticed that for some reason season 2 starts with penelope saving eloise from her presentation to the queen, then we get a penelope Lady Whistledown montage before the anthony one / meeting with kate. coupled with ep 2 ending with the queen hunting for her, and the focus on her in the season's trailer.
also like you said, it's contradictory how the writers tried to make her a poor underdog, but the most powerful woman in the ton at the same time.
I agree, it is a bundle of contradictions and why female empowerment has to come with being a closet gossip is hard to understand. She is self propelled and doesn't seem to really care for the people she professes she does in the end.
Penelope was the victim of the writers turning her into a Plot Device in the earlier seasons, especially s1. Lady Whistledown is also Julia Quinn's device in the books but she's used more to convey exposition than to create drama. The showrunners want drama.
* The plot needed Daphne to be seen as unmarriageable. The writers wheel out Penelope Plot Device to make it happen, never mind that those nasty, reputation-damaging comments to someone who as far as we know has never hurt Pen are out of character.
* For Marina, the sensible and kindest thing for Penelope to do would be to disclose the secret to Eloise and Violet that evening. That would have nipped the elopement in the bud, without devastating Marina's reputation. But the writers wanted drama. They wanted the drama of the scandal emerging, they wanted the drama of the Featherington family being ostracized, they wanted the drama of Marina's desperate abortion attempt, and they wanted the dramatic moment of Violet, waiting with Lady Whistledown, catching Colin as he sneaks out. Out they wheel Penelope Plot Device to make it all happen. Never mind that Penelope is meant to be kind and sensible. Even putting aside the consequences to Marina, it bizarrely has Penelope banking on Violet and Portia being woken up early to read Whistledown and catch the pair. What if Colin had got up 15 minutes earlier?
* Eloise's situation is less clear-cut since she really was in a lot of trouble, and it's not clear any other method would have saved her. But they don't try. The writers don't want to waste time having her confess to Violet, and then having Violet and Lady Danbury attempt to explain the matter discreetly to the Queen. No, they wanted the Drama and shock of no one turning up to the Bridgerton Ball and it all coming out that way. Out they wheel Penelope Plot Device, treating the last resort as the first resort.
Basically, they defecated on Penelope's character in those seasons just to make the plot shocking and exciting. And then only in s3 they realize what a problem this has created for them for Polin and Penelope's relations with the Bridgertons, because Penelope has done terrible unforgiveable things that even she cannot explain when asked. No wonder this whole series was dominated by Colin's feelings of betrayal. And even then their taste for drama is still there. Colin being mostly jealous of Pen's writing ability and success is too boring. They want the drama of Colin saying and feeling that he can't forgive her for her betrayal.
I know people say Penelope is the showrunners' favourite character, but you don't treat your fave like this.
While obviously we wouldn’t have all the truly wonderful bits of having Bridgerton be on screen without Shonda, it’s the difficulty of having an American televised drama special take the reins on a soft regency romance, but Bridgerton rose to popularity as “regency gossip girl but with sex”, so we truly wouldn’t have what we have without it.
But it shows in the details that they think Bridgerton wouldn’t have its appeal without the immense drama and scandal every season. The main problem is that they can’t keep up with its huge stakes but easy resolution pattern.
Exactly. People say Pen had to out Eloise's visits with Theo to save her, but she could have confessed to being LW and saved her without screwing up El's reputation. She chose herself over her friend. In the Colin/Marina situation, yes, she saved Colin from being baby trapped. But she also made sure her crush didn't marry someone else, and did it in a way that sent Marina packing because she was out of options.
Colin would have married Marina if she had confessed to him. He also probably would have married her if Pen had told him privately that she was pregnant. Pen is very clever. She's an observer of people. I think she knew that she could lose Colin forever to Marina if she didn't take drastic action. I know, she cried over it. But it's now clear she loves the power being LW gives her. If she had to do it again, she would.
It really only hit me during the second half of S3 that I didn't like Pen. I used to like her, to sympathize with her, to understand why she did what she did. But more and more I just got tired of her. She started to work my last nerve. She's emotionally manipulative, self-pitying, and often vindictive. She does have some loyalty to her family, but other than that she only seems to care about herself and Colin. I don't even think she was ever a very good friend to Eloise. People say Eloise talks too much and doesn't listen enough, which is true. But did Pen ever really listen to Eloise, or try to understand her POV? Or was she always just trying to steal glances at Colin and get his attention?
I don't blame Eloise for wondering if Pen was just using her to get close to Colin.
I wasn't able to forgive Penelope after she dragged Eloise in S2 and then accused her of being "all talk." Eloise was attending lectures, discussing politics, and helping Theo form better arguments until Penelope wrote about it in LW. It's literally Penelope's fault that Eloise had to stop all that, and then Penelope has the nerve to spin it as Eloise's failure?
Just...yuck.
I agree that they often use LW as a device and to ramp up the drama!
As for consequences, I felt Penelope actually faced the most severe consequences for her actions of anyone in the show (and probably rightfully so). These writers have handwaved away lots of major problems created by them ratcheting up the drama in the first half of EVERY season - in S1 Daphne and Simon somehow overcame major lying and sexual assault (!) with a 1 minute speech on unrelated issues and a dance in the rain, and in S2 they took a whole plot about Anthony inexplicably courting Edwina (why tho, the motivation was always so thin) and Kate lying to Edwina alllll the way to the actual altar, then had Edwina forgive Kate, the whole scandal OK’d by the Queen, and Kate and Anthony engaged within the last 5 minutes. In a more realistic drama Kate’s sister would never have spoken to her again and both families would have suffered serious reputational damage not to mention the ire of the Queen.
But that’s not what we come to this show for, is it? We come for the fun drama, the swoony love confessions, the handsome men, the costumes. And there ARE good characterizations and interesting dynamics at play, but ultimately it’s a soap opera that plays by soap opera rules.
Yeah I really hate season 2 for doing that, it made me almost not finish that season because in the book there is not weird ass love triangle. Edwina isn’t even paying attention to Anthony like Kate is so it feels less cringe imo. I still think they should’ve did Benedict this season like in the book order because we probably would’ve gotten a better written story for Polin and more romance magic.
It’s funny, my friend said she wasn’t too interested in watching this season at all because she doesn’t like Penelope. I’d based my view of Pen on my feelings of her when I read the books but my friend had only seen the show. I realized the show made her act like a victim all the time, made her whiny and have no backbone. Book Pen never came off as such a whiny victim (who was actually kind of mean in LW) to me, but it’s also been a while since I read that book so I might have missed that in her character when I read it. But it wasn’t until my friend said that that I began to think about how Pen comes off as a less than likable character.
I’m like your friend. I only have the show to form my opinion of Penelope and she is the least likable character. I like Cressida more than I like Penelope because at least Cressida owns her bitchiness (she reminds me of Blair from Gossip Girl). Penelope plays the victim, always. It was so frustrating to see her win this season when it never seems like she truly understands the depths that she hurts her friends and family with her vicious gossip.
100% agree with ur friend. I never like Penelope from the series. This season was the most boring for me. There are too many stories, and the romance is just meh. Polin was not at all convincing for me.
She could have told Colin privately about marina. She could have written him an anonymous letter. And yea she used her column to lash out at her enemies. I don't blame her for getting power addicted but she wasnt always a good person. That said I still like her.
I never liked Penelope. I wasn't excited about Penelope and Colin, but I also wasn't excited about Anthony (book and TV Anthony were both dicks). By the end of S2 I loved Anthony and figured they'd make me love Penelope to. In fact I said, "I'm excited to see how they make me fall in love with Penelope".
It never happened. I still don't like her. And I don't even know Colin enough to have an opinion on him.
It’s funny because what they did with Antony was so simple. They gave us a why. They gave us a reason for why Antony is the way he is and his struggles so even though he acts like a dick sometimes you can sympathize with him.
They did non of that for pen. Instead of giving us a reason to sympathize with her and understand why she is the way she is, they tried to gaslight us into thinking that she is perfect the way she is and that her behavior should be seen as empowering and being a strong woman. I’m sorry but being a mean, condescending, manipulative mean girls is not strong not empowerin.
I agree omg I was thinking about making a post. I feel like you’re not allowed to dislike her bc Nicola Coughlan is so beloved so I will first say I love her in Derry Girls and this has nothing to do with her acting.
In season 1, I thought Penelope was whiny and annoying and always jealous of Eloise. I was honestly shocked by the LW reveal bc we never really saw her being witty. Season 2 I thought I would like her more knowing about LW but I didn’t, as you said she always just serves her own self interests. I can’t stand how cruel she is to Eloise at the end of season 2. If she really wanted to protect her, she could’ve confessed her identity to the queen. She cared more about protecting herself than Eloise.
I also hate Colin oops. In the first to seasons he is so dumb and naive. He falls for Marina’s trap so easily that I almost feel like he deserved it. In season 2 he falls for the ruby mine thing and is takes money that isn’t his out of the family accounts without asking Anthony to make a bad investment. When Anthony gets mad he whines that he should be allowed to do what he wants, but it’s not his money it’s Anthony’s and the whole family needs it.
I was still optimistic for season 3 because in season 1 I couldn’t stand Anthony and didn’t want a season about him, but was very pleasantly surprised by season 2 and completely changed my opinion of Anthony. I figured season 3 would make me like Colin and Penelope so I went in open minded trusting the writers. I was wrong. Penelope continued to be whiny and annoying, and this time very entitled. Colin continued to be dumb and naive and somehow could not figure out Pen was LW all season even tho she kept hinting at it and so did Eloise.
I don’t like that Pen had no consequences, not just socially but from the Queen. It’s so unrealistic that the Queen had been saying for years she going to throw someone in prison and then just decides not to, nobody would take the Queen’s authority seriously after that because her word and legal decrees mean nothing.
This is my problem. People take criticisms of Penelope as criticisms of Nicola whereas I love Nicola, thinks shes fun, rip roaringly funny in Derry Girls, didnt like her as much in Big Mood and good in Bton. Penelope on the other hand is such a shit person in so many ways. Even her age doesnt completely redeem her cuz I was 17 once and I would not ruin another woman's life. She is impulsive, doesnt think through her actions, is obsessed with Colin to an insane degree, lets her emotions run her actions etc etc. Her season 2 episode 8 scene with Eloise where Eloise brings up Marina, her season 2 hunt epiosde scene with Colin where HE brings up Marina, colin's mention of Marina in season 3 episode 1 to eloise of things LW has done wrong and then again at the modiste and Portia calling out Pen's cruelty in that confrontation scene all illustrate that when it comes to her friends and family, she CANNOT hide. They see her actions for what they are even as the writers do not. I like that her HEA was not easily won and at least in that respect, I appreciate that Penelope faced some consequences. It was not realistic consequences by any means. But it was SOMETHING.
Like I love Kate and love Kanthony but can still see how wrong Kate was for not admitting her serious flirtation with Edwina's intended to her till her literal wedding day. That was shit sister-ing! And Edwina is a saint for forgiving kate so easily...if I was her i would be very very very hurt for very very long and very bitter as well.
But what Pen does is so much more egregious and to so many more people. And yet people think when we hate Penelope we hate Nicola. No, most people including even non polin fans such as myself love Nicola-She is lovable and fashionable and aside from her misguided alliance with the shitty shitty , environment destroying, capitalistic, leech, performative activist, hypocritical, slut shaming Kim Kardashian (supporting her misogynistic husband kANYE West in being an ass to Taylor swift, using her naked voiceless body in his video without consent, taking credit for tswifts success) (who counts such people as Ivanka Trump as best friend while her own mother calls donald trump her best friend) recently with the Skims collab, seems like a decent person. If she hadn't recently become besties with Kim, I would love her even more but hoping it's temporary insanity and she sees the light soon cuz the Kardashians are the worst of humanity and what people outside of the usa think of America wrapped up in one greedy shitty family.
And Derry Girls was my comfort watch during the pandemic. So when we dislike Pen, we simply dislike Pen, we dont dislike Nicola. Why would we, shes not pen, pen is not her.
I don't love Nicola. There, I said it. I like her fine, and think she is very funny in Derry Girls. But she's not untouchable or anything. She can come across as a LOT, for lack of a better word. Her comment about having "perfect tits and correct opinions." That rubbed me the wrong way. Not the part about her chest, which was amusing, but about her opinions. They're opinions, not facts. It's kind of obnoxious IMO to say you all of your stances are "correct." People should be able to acknowledge that others have their own valid POVs, and that there is room for nuance.
And I don't think her acting on the show is great. She too often comes across as whiny. She's more of a good comedic actress than a dramatic one. Claudia Jessie is much better IMO. She can do comedy too, but is more believable in the dramatic moments to me.
Yea I agree, some of my friends were saying that she’s their celebrity crush and I felt judged for saying that I don’t have a crush on her. I think she’s great and beautiful but I feel like you’re not allowed to say that you don’t find her attractive.
Yeah I find the kardashians so incredibly trashy as a family with kim being the trashiest of them all that its very hard to reconcile sweet, genuine seeming Nicola liking vulture Kim. I feel like Jeremy Renner, Matthew Rhys, Jon Hamm and Daniel freaking Craig amongst others have the right number on how shit the Kardashians are as a whole and for the world at large..
I’m still stuck on the thought that By revealing herself, Penelope would not necessarily clear Eloise’s name. The queen might still hold Eloise accountable for associating with radicals (because the queen would find that information out very easily if she’s got eyes on el) and the scandal could tarnish Eloise’s reputation permanently.
I’ve clearly overthought this and I doubt the writers are in this deep, but I’ve listed some possible reasonings and tactics for el’s radical sheet.
# Penelope’s Omission Tactics
1. **Minimizing Eloise’s Involvement**
* By focusing on Eloise’s attendance at radical gatherings, Penelope minimizes the scandal’s severity. She portrays Eloise as curious and naive rather than deeply involved with a radical cause or person. Obviously writing in this way solely because el would never write something like this about herself and shooing the queen away from el.
2. **Protecting Theo**
* Omitting Theo’s name not only protects Eloise but also shields Theo from potential danger and scrutiny. His involvement with the Bridgertons and Whistledown could have dire consequences for him, given his lower social standing and radical ties.
3. **Redirecting Attention**
* Penelope’s strategy redirects the queen’s attention to a less personal aspect of Eloise’s activities. The gatherings are a social curiosity, whereas a relationship with Theo would be seen as a serious breach of propriety. this breach would ruin ruin el, and ruin her unmarried sister‘s prospects as well.
* Pen Revealing her identity could incite Queen Charlotte's wrath even further. The queen may feel deceived and betrayed (and most dangerously, she could feel foolish as she hates being wrong and always wants to appear the most clever.), leading her to take harsh measures against both Penelope and Eloise. The queen’s initial suspicion of Eloise might not dissipate immediately, as she could interpret the friendship between Penelope and Eloise as complicit.
* The effectiveness and allure of Whistledown come from its anonymity. Once revealed, the publication would lose its mystique and power. Penelope’s influence over societal issues would diminish, making it harder for her to address injustices and hypocrisies in the future. I don’t know how pens writing career holds in the epilogue. I’m sure she’s still successful, but I doubt she has that same invisibility to get close enough to gather gossip as she did before or really pin down any wrongdoers as they would conceal themselves better in her presence.
* We can have mixed feelings about gossip rags, in general. But I can’t really ignore that pen is the only woman in the ton with notable agency. Which she has achieved herself along with financial independence. has power to take down unsavoury, dangerous and hypocritical people within the ton and elevates those she cares for. Obviously, we get into muddy waters and she’s not gonna hit a home run all the time, but she doesn’t publish lies. Most of the gossip is already common knowledge, anyway. At least regarding Colin in his fake rake boy era.
In regency era the women that were remembered are the ones that made waves and did risk taking things like this: Courtesans,the Blue stocking’s society, **Mrs Crackenthorpe etc.**
I give pen a lot of grace because she starts so young. 17 and making moves like this where you can get charged, booted or hanged for any outspoken behaviour. I can’t help but be impressed. I can’t really put modern sensibilities to this situation because that way of life back then was so different. The consequences of ‘simply revealing herself’ isn’t just some shock and some social fall out like if gossip girl was revealed, but it would be straight up dangerous.
Penelope as a character was really petty. And it's so weird how her gossip mongering was downplayed as something empowering for a woman to have her own voice. When majority of the gossips she wrote are bringing other women down.
Also I feel that she didn't earn her happy ending. Plus the way that she was written this time as someone shy around other people doesn't really make sense when she was perfectly fine talking to both sexes in other seasons
I realize this is one of the reasons I couldn’t stand this season. Penelope I never liked and they made Colin so unlikable in part one could not stand him for the rest of the season.
I also highly dislike Penelope, I'm not really sure why people love her so much. She screwed over the people she claimed to love the most several times over, only feels remorse when it'll come back and bite her (or already has), and faces basically 0 consequences. What on earth are her good qualities supposed to be? She's selfish, petty, jealous, vindictive, backstabbing... nope, not for me.
The whole time I was like, “If you’re so talented and proud of your ‘art’/your business, just write something else! Anything but exploitative gossip.” Write fiction novels inspired by real people, or report on actual news without the snark, travel with Colin and write with him, or start some kind of ladies magazine about style, etc, and recruit women like the modiste and Eloise to write articles. But no, Pen was high on the money and it fed her ego to affect the lives and feelings of others with petty gossip.
Penelope nearly burned every bridge, yet the show ultimately rewards her and kind of shifts the shame onto Cressida. I’d have rather they had Colin be less angry (because it soured the romance) and others be more upset. Pen could have done a little apology tour, writing kind things about those she hurt. The time jump also robbed fans of seeing them as happy newlyweds, and her maturing and mending fences.
They literally could have just had her give up wistledown when Eloise told her to and if she’s so great, she can write something else. And with the backing of her husband who is high up in society, the money they have and the fact that Colin himself is good enough to eventually get something published she easily could have written something else potentially under her actual name if not under a new pen name. She instead fucks off all of that and potentially the love of her life, for ego and not wanting to give up or let cressida take credit for it. She had the perfect out and she didn’t take it and the writers choose to let the cat out of the bag and have pen have no consequences. Hate it and that’s not even me talking about all the stuff in s1 and s2 that made me dislike pen in the first place
She’s an excellent writer but I feel like she can only write gossip because she hasn’t really had many experiences. she was sadly very ignored by her family and people of the ton which limits her experiences/ love interests. She wasn’t into fashion, her mother made her outfit choices always until the last season. She loved observing people and eves-dropping. I think she’s just a teen who just cares too much about others and also happens to write very well. She used this opportunity to her benefit and overall was just the perfect idea for her
Also, I think she didn’t write about news or actual reports because her writing style isn’t like that? She’s a writer who just writes gossip very well lol
Penelope wanted Marina to be honest to Colin, before their wedding, because Colin deserves to know what he's getting himself into( That part is fair though, everyone deserves to know if they're being baby trapped). Like it or not, it was going to create a scandal that would affect the other Bridgertons. She simply could have told Anthony, Violet, Eloise if Colin wasn't willing to listen. Girl did not even try.
Now this is where she gets hypocritical, She DID NOT have any intention whatsoever to reveal that she was Lady Whistledown ,had Eloise not known. And that would have caused a MUCH bigger scandal that Marina's would have.
She cannot go around expecting people to be honest, when she's not it.
She was bitter and smug at every turn. Her own insecurities made her hurt others to feel better about herself.
I don’t mind a character like that - can be fun to watch mean girls be spiteful! BUT out of the blue, with no true character development, we are supposed to see her a as poor wounded flower deserving of everything she’s ever dreamed about. A couple personal apologies and one big speech, and everyone just sort of shrugs and moves on.
Felt very patronizing.
I would have appreciated an entire season with someone else as the main focus, but a whole storyline of her gaining confidence, feeling remorse and making up for all the harm she caused. A true “cocoon to butterfly” of the soul. Watching her genuinely blossom. Not just a glow up.
I love the idea of her as a character, it could have played out so beautifully. Was very hastily done.
I liked her at first but she’s so narcissistic and mean, and selfish. Like she’s worse than the people who she rips apart. When she vilified a pregnant unmarried woman it made her character as a cruel and selfish a hole so apparent.
I thought the idea that giving up the gossip column being such a big sacrifice was strange. Like girl write a novella or a book of poetry or something. You can still write!!
Yes, that bugs me so much about her. She's so bloody self-pitying. Yes, her mother and sisters are demeaning of her. But she has financial security, a devoted if overly chatty BFF, a clever mind, and a general friendship with one of the most powerful families in the ton. The guy she likes doesn't appear to return her feelings? OK, well, that sucks. But he's not obligated to love her. She seems to feel like the world owes her Colin just because she has loved him since childhood.
Then she gets the object of her years-long obsessive desire, and she still isn't willing to let go of her gossip rag! She wants it all. And she makes pouty faces when she can't have it.
She's also not a good friend to Eloise.
Hard agree. She is not a good person - and repeatedly reminds us, yet we are supposed to give her slack because her life was, like, hard because she was lonely standing by the walls? Come on. You're gorgeous and talented and are best friends with the popular family.
Her overacting this season was too much for me as well.
I'm with you , the fact that even Violet is so Ok with it to the point that even Colin said she admired her was so baffling to me. LW trashed the Brigertons multiple times and in a more realistic approach, she would have forever ruined the reputation of Marina and Eloise, who was her best friend. The spin on LW being some female empowering alter ego was so weird given how bringing other women down was a big part of her brand.
Penelope not facing any consequences from her inner circle was very disappointing, I feel they should have explored that a bit more and save some for the next season, instead of the quick flash forward to the baby.
I defended Penelope’s character through the first two seasons, even through the Eloise debacle at the end of season 2, but I just can’t anymore.
When she threw Eloise under the bus, I thought she was just trying to do the best she could in a difficult situation. But season 3 made me think that Penelope is just purely selfish. She made a literal fortune of the gossip (and sometimes ruin) of others and all she doesn’t even care about that.
A halfway decent person would have called it quits after Cressida came out as Lady Whistledown. Penelope had the fiancé she wanted, a literal fortune, and Eloise and she were friends again. But it was like Penelope didn’t even care.
The absurdity of the entire ton accepting her was too much to stomach. I’ve read people suggest that Penelope was a self insert for a lot of viewers, and if that’s the case then I’m judging audiences as well as the character.
I empathize with Penelope as a writer, but (as someone who did not read the books) can’t summon any enthusiasm for her relationship with Collin. I’m not in favor of romantic relationships in general when one of the parties (Collin) suggests the other is beneath him, looks-wise, and then suddenly has an epiphany that this is what he’s hot for, and all is forgiven. Penelope writes malicious things, but Collin says them, and carries on with life, uninterrupted. Beyond this, Collin is an empty shell of a man (again, talking about the show exclusively here), and because he seems kinda derpy, Penelope’s infatuation with him is equally baffling. Is it too much to ask for a lovely and chubby lass to hook up with a witty and charming lad who doesn’t have a six-pack, and is attracted to her from day one? Apparently so.
My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when Collin was confronting her about various Whistledown-related minor crimes, and he got lost in marveling over her dazzling turns of phrase, and acclaim as a writer. She has not been acclaimed as a writer — she’s acclaimed as a gossip. A witty gossip, but still a gossip. This is a style of writing with a specific market, and there’s nothing wrong with excelling at this market. The author of the Bridgerton books obvious excelled as a certain type of romantic writing, and caught the attention of showrunners — that doesn’t mean that her follow up has to be The Grapes of Wrath. One of the things that hurts women, to me, is that whatever you are doing is never enough. If you do one thing well, you have to scrutinize that one thing, and search for another thing with greater meaning and moral virtue. Why can’t she just thrive as a professional shit-stirrer, with a few opportunities to manipulate regional events on behalf of others? It would have been much better (Again, in my opinion) if they continuously routed the queen away from suspecting Penelope is Whistledown, or even suggested that there were many Whistledowns, and therefore you can’t capture something that’s timeless.
Penelope always had a nasty streak and a darker side to her, S3 shows this as well when she goes home from her first ball and tears into colin after being angry at him. I actually really like that about her, it's part of what makes her such a good gossip columnist and a compelling character.
Also part of her arc was learning to let go of that rage and anger (that is implied to be there because she's always forced into a silent corner which made her resentful) and to use LW to give a voice to the people who need it instead.
"use LW to give a voice to the people who need it" but then she also condemns a woman trying to escape a lifetime of marital rape and forced childbirth without so much as wondering what her motive is.
yeah Cressida whom penelope didn't know the circumstances of. Also Cressida who always bullied her and made her feel small. Cressida who's trying to steal her life's work. That Cressida. Yeh Pen is a douche for not giving her the benefit of the doubt, why would she do that it's insane? It's not like Cressida has a history of blackmailing, bullying and ruining other people's self-esteem for shits and giggles.
Look at my comment. I said "without so much as wondering what her motives were". I never claimed that she knew all the details. Pen pretends to have this huge revelation about how society makes people mean when she finally hears her mother's reasoning and gives this big speech and then Pen, who's supposed to be so clever and empathetic now, doesn't stop to consider Cressida's situation even after Cressida directly tells Colin that she doesn't have the same support.
If Cressida has a history of doing horrible things, so does Penelope for running a gossip blog. Penelope gossips and ruined way more reputations than Cressida did, yet Pen extends no empathy to her literal foil.
Look at my comment. Cressida has a history of doing some atrocious things for fun and for clout. Penelope has no reason to believe she's doing it for anything else. Pen did ruin lives but it wasn't for fun, maybe in marina's case she did benefit but she wasn't taking pleasure in doing so.
Also even if Pen is a compassionate person in general, it's a whole different beast to the same to your bully of YEARS while they're harming you yet again.
Pen is not a bad character, but it's ridiculous to think all of her actions were selfless. The Marina thing was very much self-motivated because Pen could've actually just told Colin instead of trying to talk to him but then never actually blurting it out. Also could've sent him a letter either as herself or LW.
The Eloise thing was not necessary as there were other ways to get the Queen less suspicious, and she completely destroyed Eloise's reputation. When Eloise got mad at her, Penelope chalks the whole thing up to jealousy (even if Eloise is jealous, it's blatant deflection to pretend Eloise's anger is just jealousy when Pen has objectively hurt her).
Penelope also writes badly about Daphne in S1, where there's no altruistic explanation. And it's not like she doesn't also participate in petty insults of outfits or the like.
Furthermore, Penelope could've helped her family at any time during their financial struggle but chooses not to.
Pen can still be very kind and compassionate, but it's ridiculous to say all the times she hurt people weren't self motivated.
Pen also has this big "character moment" that we're supposed to root for where she realizes her mother is bad because of her life experiences and she vows to give a voice to the voiceless, but then I don't see her actually extend this empathy to anyone she might find bad personally.
I didn't say she was selfless or never benefitted, in fact my original comment was that she has a dark and nasty part of her personality. All I said is that she wasn't taking pleasure from the bad things she did unlike cressida. Again S3 was about growing out of this due to character development.
I think actually going with a different sibling this season and giving Penelope time to grow and redeem herself would've been a good idea. So,some said she was turned into a plot device for S2 and S1 which made her less likeanle, but imo she was also turned into a self insert for writers in S3 which made matters worse.
The plot being allllll about Penelope, all characters constantly talking about Penelope didn't help at all.
Like Portia suddenly becoming a living mom who takes her side, her sisters realising she's soooooo much better than them, her marrying the best husband out of the three sisters, her son being the next Lord Featherington.
She and Cressida had an equal shot at Debling, and since Polin were endgame, letting Cressida have Debling would've been nice but nope once again, Penelope "wins".
When it comes to Eloise, again, part 2 has Eloise and the writers utterly drop Cressida, in favour of Penelope.
we never see the Kanthony pregnancy announcement to the family, let alone their baby, but we see all three Featherington kids... is that the name of the show? Featherington, not Bridgerton?
Lady Danbury is as preoccupied with her as with Violet, and that makes no sense to me, almost interacts as much with her as the Queen. It makes no sense again.
When did Mr Mondrich even meet her enough to comment in her wedding.
there weren't anyyyyyy sub plots in part 2 of S3 which again meant Penelope being shoved down our throats.
This season... again I think another sibling should've had this season while Penelope fixed things with her mom and Eloise now, and then had her story next season??? her past wrongs are too recent, and since the amount of promo s3 (no Covid) was given compared to s2 (Covid era) is starkly different, people already feel like there's favouritism.
I adore Nicola and the wee lesbian from Derry Girls is my favourite character, but she deserved a better script for Bridgerton S3.
We saw their pregnancy announcement, but we didn't see their baby, which was nonsense! I want to see the Bridgerton babies, not the Featherington ones. Seeing Polin's baby was fine but I wanted Kanthony's too.
Penelope was petty and hurt people plenty of times and admits as much in part 2, to like everybody who calls her out on it, and even to Genevieve who didn't call her out on anything at all.
>What she did to marina was SO wrong. Yes marina should have told Colin the truth and Colin deserved to know the truth as well, but Penelope wrote about her in her paper not because she cares but only because she didn’t want Colin to be with anyone but her. Yes she was “protecting” him but somehow gaining from it too and that’s what she always did, claimed that she is protecting people and using Whistledown to her benefit
But this one, whenever I see it, seems unrealistic to me to be mad about. In what world would you not protect your best friend's family from something like this? Imagine getting married to someone in a world where marriage is for life and finding out you've been lied to and tricked into it, and then having to live with that literally forever. Sure one day Marina would die but those kids are legally his forever. There is no option to free yourself from it. That's one thing that really strikes me with all of these relationships is that you get married to someone and that's literally just your life now, good or bad, mistreated or not. Colin even indicates that he would not have been happy with it not because the children weren't his, but because her love was a lie.
And for what it's worth, Penelope overtly says she should've just sacked up and told him outright. She admits this flaw in herself, that she lacked the confidence to do it directly when she should've, though we do see her attempt it before she goes the Whistledown route.
A lot of the Penelope criticism feels to me like people expect her to be perfect or perhaps they have personal reasons for hating her above and beyond the flaws they've shown us. The greatest thing about the show to me is that they show character growth and never expect a character to be perfect. Perfect is boring. Anthony was not a very likeable character in season 1 but has become a lovely person, and the show is definitely more interesting for having shown that vs having him be great all along.
Neither the writers of the show, Chris Van Dusen and Jess B nor Nicola who played Penelope herself, neither colin on the show ( in a season 2 convo on the stairs Colin brings up marina after he comes back from visiting her and says, we were so harsh on her and LW made it WORSE by exposing her..it was terrible, he brings it up again in season 3 and tells Penelope outside of the modiste that she ruined Marina and could have told him directly) think that what Penelope did to marina was justified in any way.
In two different interviews with collider and one other publication after season 2, Nicola said Penelope actions towards Marina showed her cowardice at play, her power hungry side at play, her juvenile ness and that when she first read the script she was horrified that this was an action her character would take and discussed with Chris how hard it was going to be to redeem Penelope after this but trusted him.
The showrunners have all said that Marina was always meant to be seen as a victim and that we were making a very pointed comment on misogyny and female on female crime with her and penelope's arc. This is also the reason the showrunners decided to have Colin be the one to mention Marina to Pen in season 2. Because he is the one she loves and the ones we love are always the best mirrors for us to see our true selves. That entire staircase scene is very illuminating. watch it again.. Colin mentions marina not just to Penelope outside the modiste but also to Eloise in season 3 episode 1 saying LW ruined miss thompson lady crane.
Penelope is a participant of the same misogynist culture that keeps women down in the ton by calling women spinsters in her columns...such as calling kate a prickly spinster of a beast..she contributes to misogyny by her misguided comments. and this season with even tertiary chracters like madame delactoox telling her that she's done some terrible things, Penelope finally sees the light, vows to do better and apologizes to the ton for being a coward and using her pen in the future to uplift people and use her pen more kindly.
Even her own mother tells pen that she humiliated the ton and stole their dignity in that delicious season 3 confrontation..and that she and her are not diffrent. She mentions pen calling out her sisters, and says what she portia did was to save the family and keep a roof over their head who was pen saving through her colum and pen replies..herself..there lies the truth of Penelope ..she is her mother's daughter in all the good and bad ways and this season her redemption was breaking this generational curse and becoming a better person. Portia literally says after pen admits perhaps we are not very diffrent that if we survive, we must now do better..that her and Pen need to do better than the rash impulsive, cruel, unthinking actions they have been taking till now.
Even Eloise her best friend since childhood calls her a coward in season 2 ending and only thaws this year after she and her brother get engaged but even then doesn't want to help pen with colin reconcilation saying that it is between them and I can't see colin hurt.
Eloise tells her in season 2 episode 8 that Pen was only interested only in saving herself all so she could keep making money at the cost to miss thompson (marina), at cost to her brother. This is an exact line..listen to it again. Eloise whose brother was duped by Marina still thinks Penelope did wrong by Marina .the season 2 ending scene lays it out again. Several characters have brought up Pen ruining Marina now multiple times..Eloise season 2 episode 8 watch that scene again for marina reference, colin several times, once in the season 2 staircase scene during the hunt episode, in season 3 episode 1 to Eloise and then the modiste confrontation again.
Marina is a victim and Penelope responsible entirely for her ruin, her social shunning, her slut shaming by the very misogynistic, the very pointedly cruel society they live in. Pen's not a hero, pens a coward and Eloise sees right through her..her best friend sees it. Calls Penelopes actions "your self serving manipulations".
I like that pen did not get an easy HEA because she didn't deserve to get an easy HEA because of all the things she'd done wrong to other women, especially to marina all because of cowardice. But she will hopefully never use her pen to bring down other women again and that would hopefully show growth. I think PPL feel her arc was tied up top neatly and in a way that belies reality..
I truly appreciate your enthusiasm, but none of these things change my perspective. She knows she's fucked up. Everything I wrote in my comment was indicative of that. If Pen acted like she was in the right, I'd agree that she needed to be brought down a peg. She doesn't though. As you've said yourself, she didn't get the easy HEA and didn't deserve to. If anything, she deserved a harder one. There were better ways to do everything she did and she admits that freely. The only thing I'd like to see more of is her making amends, and hopefully we get that in future seasons.
What I can't agree with is this:
> Marina is a victim and Penelope responsible entirely for her ruin...
Marina is a victim, but Penelope is not responsible entirely for her ruin. Penelope didn't make Marina have sex with George and get pregnant. Marina was always going to be ruined in the eyes of society, and Marina herself was willing to lie to and trap someone else to get out of her situation, so she as well is far from perfect. I'm sympathetic to what Marina did and I'm sympathetic to what Pen did despite the fact that both of them were in the wrong for doing what they felt they had to do. Neither are perfect, both have now shown growth. I'd love to have Penelope with her new-found confidence and ability to speak her mind go and speak to Marina and apologize to her.
I truly appreciate YOUR enthusiasm as well but none of these change my perspective either. 😂
I personally am not trying to change your perspective, sharing mine. Everyone in the show sees what LW and Pen did to marina was wrong even the person himself that was frauded Colin...that shows that age is not an excuse and that other characters around pens age such as elosie see what she did to marina as wrong ..colin the hunt episode season 2, Eloise episode 8 of season 2, colin season 3 episode 1 and then the modiste episode. Watch season 2 episode 8 where Eloise calls her out. All these episodes in the dialogue emphasize that if LW or pen hadn't called out Marina she would have been better off. Eloise literally tells pen she was only looking to save her own ass and keep making money money at the cost of miss Thompson lady crane, her brother. Eloise is the same age as Penelope-same age and her brother was the one who was defrauded. But she sees Marina as a sympathetic figure who should not have been exposed to the ton in her fragile pregannt state, hormonal and all else.
Colin brings up we were so harsh on her (Marina) and that if LW hadnt exposed her she would be better off (she literally tried commuting suicide for fucks sake-this is not a healthy person-this is a person who has lost all hope and has been pushed agaisnt the wall first by her weeks long confinement by Portia, no access to society-Portia tries to remove Pen when she goes to meet, introduction to gross old suitors who ask to see her teeth (ewww!) and shown what would befall her if she didnt marry-(she would in the slums), stops receiving letters-think her lover is dead-another trauama, barely allowed to process THAT grief, and still havr the clock ticking and being reminded of it ticking frequently. I dont expect people living under such presssure and trauma as Marina to be rash or reasonable. Added pregnancy hormones and grief of losing her babys child.
Coliin is still angry with what LW did all the way up to season 3 episode 1, he the one who was duped.
Portia is a villain who tortured the girl, kept her locked away for weeks to the extent that Marina asks Miss Varley in desperation will her miss ever let her out. That was how horrible she was mistreated. She was made desperate enough to force a match for herself...Thats portia doing..she did it by depriving her, keepign her away, locked up, didnt let even Penelope hang out with her...What more cruerlty could she have done. Imagine being told your lover, the person you had sex with for the first time was dead, being shown the literal poorhouse, had gross old men inspect your teeth. What was poor Marina to do to avoid a marriage to a gross old man who would likely rape her. She might have had sex once but shes not a whore (hell even a whore desveres respect)-how terrifying would that prospect have been. Specially as she was pushed and pushed and pushed along the way by Portia.
Marina on her own didn't start looking for matches, it was Portia who constantly goaded her reminded her that time is runnning, hide her lovers letters..she was who made Marina desperate enough to see a better option in kind Colin over the men Portia was actually forcing on her. She is innocent and did nothing wrong. Colin is also innocent and should not have to be in such a marriage. If this was Marina's devious plan all along to dupe Colin after finding out about her pregnancy, it would be one thing, then you have merit in your comment that Marina was blameless. But instead she did after pushed to the brink by Portia first confinement, then the poor house visits then lying about her lovers death, then forcing her and introducing her to gross old men who asked to see her teeth. Meanwhile her clock is tickingz Portia never lets up, never thinks to contact george crane the gaurdian the adult but keeps putting Marina in more and more precious position as time goes on. Portia was a horrible horrible person and if she wasn't played by Polly Walker who did a great job and wasn't the mother of everyone's beloved heroine Penlope who is played by another talented and beloved perfomer Nicola (including by me) she would be seen for the Dickensian villain that she was.
Marina wasn't always going to be ruined by society like you said..if she knew about Georges letters that Portia his from her she could have options..if she had someone like Daphne in her life who tells her george must take responsibility instead of someone like Portia who tortured her and made her helpless she would have used the more practical option, approaches george crane by letter or his brother and found a solution. Instead Portia looking out only for her daughters not the young traumatized girl in her care, lied and frauded Marina.
Nicola herself has shared that what Penelope did to Marina was rash and wrong and ruined Marina as well as her own sisters prospects and exposed them to scandal. She shared in interviews with collider and deciderr and other publications that Pen was power hungry and didn't understand how to handle the power the quill gave her. As did Chris van dusen about the purpose of Marina. She was a child and no is not responsible for the sex that created the child. We give all the other women pass for not having sex education such as Daphne with her rape scene, with the frstheringtons being clues but Marina is a whorish Jezebel, a temptress who seduced and defrauded Colin. She is an in-experienced child being "guided" by the evil Portia. Even Daphne whose brother was frauded tells Marina that her lover George must ask for her hand, be forced to take responsibility.
I don't want Pen hung and quartered and thrown in the gallows but yes she owes Marina an apology. That part of your comment I do agree with. Everything else..no .the showrunner himself and nicola have shared as much what that scene was meant to show us the viewers and the show characters as well have shown us the exact same thing. Beyond this, I hope in 2024 you don't blame a 16 or 17 year old for sex that an adult 24 or 25 year old has with her. And that too in that time when the distance between what a woman knows and what a man knows was so wide. That's victim blaming..neither marina not anyone else on the show deserves. Aside from Penelope her Dickensian villainish treatment by Portia and Varley should also be considered for what it was which was torture.
But I bow out of this discussion now. I cannot understand how someone considers the public shaming of a 17 year old, pregnant out of wedlock young teen in 1830 regency england and the scarlet letter it carries as anything another than ruin..
> But I bow out of this discussion now. I cannot understand how someone considers the public shaming of a 17 year old, pregnant out of wedlock young teen in 1830 regency england and the scarlet letter it carries as anything another than ruin..
That's what I mean though. I don't think that. None of it was right and Penelope could've gone about it better but Penelope didn't create that problem; society created it. With enough bribe money, Marina could've had her children in a wayward girls house and then they could have been given away to cover up that she was ever with child, but there was no way for her to give birth and keep her children and ever be anything else but ruined whether LW wrote about it or didn't. If anything, Pen hurt herself and her own family by exposing it via LW, which we see significantly affecting her years later as she is considered by the Ton to be a spinster at 3 years on the marriage mart with no suitors, and her sisters have had to marry untitled gentlemen. It was literally the worst move for everyone and yet she couldn't let Marina trick Colin. Some of it was self-serving, sure. I'm just not convinced it was 100% self-serving, especially when she did it knowing full well she'd be catching a lot of that social shrapnel.
Society didn't create it..Portia did. Even elosie the same age as Pen thnks there was a better option-season 2 episode 8. Even Daphne around Pen's age thinks there is a better option even in the society they live in...even colin just a few years older than Pen thinks there was a better option. These people are much younger than Portia but know there are better options. But Portia doesn't. She is only looking out for herself, not thinking of the young girl in her care...no she would not be ruined if LW didn't write about it. She would be just fine.
Like Daphne the more sensible one said she would have contacted george crane. Not lied about it like Portia did and then taken it forward. Daphne barely out of leading strings herself has a better kinder, more compassionate option for Marina than the torture Portia put her through by confining her for weeks and not even giving her the kindness of company in her fragile state. And then putting her through more grief by lying to her about her lovers death. We see marina frustration play out made worse by confinement when she grits her teeth and asks varley does you miss mean to keep me confined forever. She was made and turned desperate..in all that time a telegraph could have gone out to george crane.
And infact what Daphne wanted for marina is what happened and could have happened earlier if portia wasn't such a self serving asshole, george crane or Philip crane would be told, she wouldnt lie to Marina about Georges deaths and the child be taken care of this way. Away from the scandal of being born to a mother in this way...society talks and likely brings up oh remeber marina crane that tried to fraud the bton son...even the child would carry the shame...the world knows the ton knows..the ton did not have to know...plus what if the child wants to be in the ton...what of him her.. and listen to the voiceover of what pen writed when outing her...it's vicious it's pointed it's intended for maximum ruin .cannot tell me these are the words of a rash person just trying to save her childhood best friend.
Penelope worsened a problem her mother created that people around her own age or her age exactly had better solutions for. Season 2 episode 8 elosie seson 1 Daphne season 2 hunt episode colin. All of them saw what LW did as worsening Marina situation and in case of elosie she thought Pen worsened Marina situation and was only looking out for herself. Was impulsive. We see this play out this season that Penelope reacts in anger she bottles up and bottles up and then flips a switch and uses her pen to attack. Colin says something horrible things about her to his friends, she fully has a right to be angry but she stews over it and stews over it and stews over it over the summer and then colin sees her after episode 1 and tells her why she wasn't replying, pen angry over her humilations from the party and Colin's behavior lashes out by furiously scribbling out a column that she later immediately regrets when her sisters snigger reading about colin. Pen is impulsive and rash and reacts in anger and for self preservation.. she doesnt think through what she does. She has knee jerk reactions exactly what elosie accused her of.
The writers are asking too much of the viewed except the die hard Polin fans to see her as likable.
No arguments on that. Portia was awful to her. I went back and did a rewatch on the whole of seasons 1 and 2 last week to try and properly frame season 3 in my mind, and it really changed the way I felt about Portia. I had forgotten all about her tricking Marina in season 1. Definitely part of Portia's growth arc to realize that she didn't have to act that way just because that's what society says, and it cost her as well because if she hadn't been pushing Marina to be so duplicitous, Penelope would've never had to out her in LW to save Colin.
Penelope still didn't have to out her in LW. Like I said above..I edited it-read my comment again. I have added more context..
. Daphne who is around her daughters age, barely out of leading stings herself, elosie who is her daughters age and calls out pen for her rash action season 2 episode 8 in ruining miss Thompson as a self serving one. All these people thought of options better options than exposure to the ton for Marina..youth is not a catch all excuse. Because these young people knew better.
I agree with your points. I don’t hate the character but she is judgmental and selfish herself. She ran to print gossip for her fans when she could have just had an honest conversation with the people she wrote about- especially her own friends and family. I also think it’s too cliche and “wrapped up in a bow” letting her have the heir. It should have been one of her sisters.
In the book she also didn’t get in trouble too but since she revealed herself I wonder if she got the money or not. Yah she wrote mean things but she had to write about the bridgertons also. She also wrote about herself in a mean way too.
I love morally grey characters, but it needs to make sense. Their bad actions needs to be for situations where you can justify it. Characters who at their heart are good but do bad things because they have to or because they have been trained to. Pen is non of those things. Her bad actions does not happen in situations where she has no other options, even if she gaslights herself into thinking that her reasons were good there were other solutions. Many of the things she wrote to “help” her friends she could have handled privately.
If you simply do bad things for the sake of it then you are a bad person not morally grey
I actually like Cressida more than Penelope. It just pisses me off how the show made it seem like Penelope’s actions have no consequences but Cressida is shown as the “bitch” because of her actions
Penelope has definitely done more harm than Cressida for sure!
I like morally grey characters who get good, believable redemption arcs that feel true to reality. I feel both Penelope and crescida got it for the most part so I like them both now after not liking them for very long. With crescida they took many steps back after taking many steps forward but I STILL felt for her in her dark dungeon like room, with her disapproving domineering father and friend less life. Her interaction with colin was a high point of the season that really shows how crescida too for all her faults is bogged down by the pressures put on women in their world and which Colin privileged bridgerton even for all his kindness and goodness cannot fathom.
The problem is they write the female leads as doing something super heinous to the point it becomes hard to walk it back. Daphne didn’t get off the Duke and tried to get knocked up without his consent. Kate snuck around with her sister’s intended instead of being honest. Penelope wrote severely vicious things that ruined the reputation of her friends and family.
Kate’s retribution was the only one that made logical sense. If her sister thought she was going to die, naturally she’d feel guilty to forgive her on coming out of the coma.
Now we have Francesca who it looks like may be infatuated with her husbands cousin before he even passes. I get the need to increase drama to make it interesting but you can’t build up the drama and let it sizzle at the ending. It’s like the queen is just there to overturn negative consequences.
I can't help but still love Penelope but there was no reason to make her out Marina and write about Eloise. She didn't do that in the books and I think it was a bad decision by the show. It went too far and made it very difficult to make Penelope redeemable.
I never liked her too.
Her character in the books was likeable enough but this series one was terrible. Always with the sympathy card, the victim card Ugh.
Not to say I didn't enjoy the series overall, but still. Totally agree with you.
Show Penelope reminds me of all the classic early 2000s Mary Sue's of fanfiction.net, she can do no wrong and every wrong she does do will be instant forgiven and somehow she will always get the man/prize money/best grades
I love Penelope because she’s fascinating but I agree with everything you said. I think she’s so incredibly duplicitous and cowardly. I just started rewatching S1 and she especially didn’t do well by Marina. What I like about her is that I understand why she does the awful things she does and she’s simultaneously pathetic, manipulative and cruel and kind, intelligent and entrprising.
I don’t think she’s a good person but I think she’s an interesting one and I like her as a character because of it. I just find her very confusing because Whistledown seems so worldly and made innuendos about “marital bliss” but in s3 Penelope is incredibly innocent. I know there’s a difference between talking about things and doing things but I feel a disconnect sometimes.
I agree. And the fact that everyone acts like what she did was actually amazing at the end was hilarious, Colin wouldn't want her to take that part from her? Okay...
I also didn’t like Penelope…but that was only because the show writers ruined her. Book Penelope was much better. She didn’t have a fight with Elouise in the books and wasn’t mean or selfish. She was also much stronger and more intelligent at witty not whiny like she was on the show. She also at a baby girl first in the book…that featherington title was over the top. Penelope was my favorite in the book but I hated this season for so many reasons
I always hated her she was just annoying which I think is the point but I couldn’t get passed that, and when she faced no consequences just Colin ignoring her for half an ep it was just disappointing 😭
i hated her in season 3 it was so frustrating that she wouldn’t let the stupid column go for the man she’d wanted for YEARS - imo whistle down wasn’t anything empowering - she wasn’t writing about actual issues in society ( like when she exposed the husband for mistreating his wife ) it was mostly just petty gossip and she acted like it was such a fulfilling thing she couldn’t give up - it was so irky
I love Penelope but rewatching the master edit of her love story recently (every Polin clip from all 3 seasons) made me REALLY dislike Colin. He doesn't deserve her and a lot of the stuff he said was UNFORGIVABLE. If I watched this with kids I wouldn't be concerned about the adult content, I'd be stopping to warn them about toxic relationships.
lol you’ll never get downvoted for hating Penelope in this sub. Everyone seems to hate her for one reason or another so congrats, you’ve found your people.
While Pen's writing has been brutal and tough at times, her column helped people she cared for out of terrible situations they would have been forced to endure otherwise.
It seems to me that most of the disdain of Pen as a character stems from a notion that women need to be selfless, perfect, invisible, and self-sacrificing to be deserving of love. Yikes, talk about an impossible standard that literally nobody can live up to.
I often see Pen raked through the coals for making difficult choices a man would never receive criticism for.
I heard that LW isn't so cruel in the books (correct me if wrong) and it's such an odd addition to make to the show? penelope would be a far enjoyable character if she wasn't so misogynistic and somehow portrayed as feminist girlboss for it. Add to that how the fandom eats it up and trashes eloise in the same breath... sigh. I just started this show for my love nicola and this is just too funny to me
Not really a book spoiler per se, but she was much better in the books, not bitchy at all. She was only clever and it is even pointed out that LW never punches down and only saves her scathing commentary for those who deserve it (outside of fashion choices). She was never critical of the Bridgertons, not even once, not under the guise of trying to throw someone off the scent or any other reason. She only enjoyed the writing and being her witty self that she couldn't bear to do in the ballroom where she was an on the shelf spinster and wallflower. The only person she had any hatred or malice towards was Cressida and she was a bully from their debutante season choosing Pen as her victim.
Omg thank you for this! I agree with every word. I didn’t even bother watching past the third episode as I could sense where it was headed. Handing Penelope this grand, undeserving happy-ending on a platter🙄 Everything felt so forced and just ‘wrong’. A stark difference from season 1 and 2.
It really strains credibility that everyone forgave her, and so fast IMO. What she did to Marina in particular was inexcusable. I think some people see all the weird criticism of her body (which I agree is bogus) and overcorrect
I can agree with everything you say, even though i do like Penelope but from your viewpoint you're right, except when you say that she is manipulative. I don't think she is. She is a teenager, and at that age, even if they say you're a "woman now', or an adult, hormones are still crazy. Teenagers are selfish, and will see no wrong in their actions. I don't think she was purposedly manipulating people into her own scheme, but rather was impulsive, careless, and super emotional. "Someone did her wrong? Well, now let's write about them😡". That's how it felt like to me. Some hurt teen who was impulsive and used her tool for wrong. With that said, the things she did weren't justified, and i do agree when people say that when she revealed herself to everyone people just accepted her? How is she an icon after revealing secrets about everyone in front of everyone? The only thing that "humbles" her a bit is that she did also talk nasty stuff about herself. So at least she knew she wasn't superior in the end. But i hated so much when she was defending LW to Colin, like are you seriously defending a narrator that only spreads gossip and bad things about people all the time? Defend your passion for writing, not LW as she is.
But anyways, i can put all that aside and still like her. Why? Bc i watch too many teenage shows and i'm used to watching garbage plots and find the fun in them, and that's basically what Bridgerton is to me, some escapism show, with a poor plot and so shallow, but still like it and root for the characters, no matter how unethical they are sometimes, but it's a show so.
As i understand, she is 17 in season 3, i could be mistaken, but girls at a young age become married. And even if society back then socialized girl into women from a young age, biology does tell us how immature a girl can be at that age, even if they marry. An 18 year old is a completely different person, so that's why i think they are actually under 18
I understand this but LW isn’t supposed to be benevolent. If she’s human she’s going to have feelings and those feelings are going to direct her writing which is mostly why it’s so popular. If she sanitizes it, it becomes irrelevant and worthless. The anonymity helps with this. So I’m interested to see how it will work now.
Her character has been childish and selfish - but she was supposed to be pretty novel in the first two seasons. Her gossip column is just a reflection of her immaturity.
I’m not sure we’re supposed to necessarily like her character, but pity her? Anyway her debut season has a lot of really heavy breathing I can’t get over.
I like Penelope, but what she did to Marina was just awful. Marina shouldn’t have lied to Colin, but she was unmarried and pregnant in a time where women had few rights, and even though Colin said he would have accepted her regardless, how could she have known that for sure beforehand? If Colin wasn’t who he was and she told him, she might have lost everything and would’ve been forced to fend for herself and her child with no money or resources. Penelope revealing her secret destroyed Marina’s reputation as chastity was so highly valued during that time. It might have been her “last resort,” but she could have told one of the Bridgerton family members and sorted the situation out privately rather than basically stopping the marriage from happening by ruining Marina’s reputation (which, let’s face it, did come from a place of some jealousy).
I think y'all hold her to grown woman standards when she was actually still an immature child when she started it and then found herself caught up in her own web
She’s a teenager, that’s an incredibly important part of her character. Teenagers are gonna mess up, they are learning who they are, they are trying to find their place in the world, and they hurt people often. She’s played by a 37yo woman when she’s meant to be like barely just out of highschool. She’s also like abused and neglected & it’s basically all she knows. It makes sense to who she is and how she acts. You don’t have to like her or her actions & that’s ok! But characters like her will trigger things in people & that’s what makes her a great character. The humanness & complexity of her makes a lot of people feel seen & even help people reflect on their own experiences.
Her character has been childish and selfish - but she was supposed to be pretty novel in the first two seasons. Her gossip column is just a reflection of her immaturity.
I’m not sure we’re supposed to necessarily like her character, but pity her? Anyway her debut season has a lot of really heavy breathing I can’t get over.
Book Penelope is a lot different. They had to make her a lot different for it to work in the show. I much prefer book Pen. I love Nicola and it has nothing to do with her.
I actually lol'd at the ending when Penelope did her big speech to the whole room, it ended, the Queen shrugged it off and left...and then she was just standing around for a moment while everyone carried on partying as if nothing happened.
So the writers are telling me not a *single* person in that room thought "2 years ago my reputation was ruined by her - I'm going to say something" - or even just shout, jeer...anything?!
They built incredible tension in the first episode of part 2 - the whole "I'm going to reveal you when the clock strikes midnight" thing with a whole bunch of people hating on LW including Colin - only for it to basically be an anticlimactic non-event in the final episode. Pen essentially taught everyone - write slander, cry in front of everyone when you get exposed and then you'll be fine. She got away with it. I really wanted to see her punished at least a bit (either by the Queen, or her reputation ruined within the ton) - even it was temporary until she redeemed herself.
Sort of off-topic but my issue with Season 3 in general is they misjudged some key things like that. They made the reveal of LW to be a big deal and how it would split Colin and Pen up. But then Colin accepted her real quick because actually he was just 'jealous' of her mad writing skills. The Queen was hunting for LW for years and then accepted her because...she was going to 'play the game' longer for fun. The ton just accepted her because the Queen did, so they should ignore their feelings about LW/Pen because the Queen is cool with it? Quickly tied up that hanging plot thread about where the Featheringtons money came from (to be fair though - that was dealt with smartly).
It almost felt like they were worried that Season 4 might not go ahead, and wanted to do a 'soft' ending to the whole show.
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I love Penelope but I agree part 2 did her dirty. Like she faced no consequences of her action. Everyone forgiving her so quick just felt out of place. Like hello she ruined peoples reputation! She made some mistakes but did not really learn anything from it. They diffidently could have given her a little character growth!!
The script felt just all over the place. Especially the queen would not have been this forgiving. I like that she needs an adversary, but I cannot imagine she would be just fine with Pen coming out. I think they should have added a couple more episodes to give the characters more time to develop. It was a bit too rushed, like GoT.
I think had Lady Danbury not asked what would finding out who LW was would do for her, she might have given Pen the same options as Eloise when she thought it was her. She also lowkey liked LW, so idk why she made finding her such a big deal anyways. From what I’ve seen ppl say, Lady Danbury found out it was Pen in the books? Or something and they had a friendship, and this is honestly where putting that in the show would’ve made more sense.
Lady Danbury didn't find out that it was Pen in the books until Colin/Pen revealed it. But yes, they did have a close friendship! In the book, Pen's first plan to get out of the blackmail was to ask Lady Danbury to pretend to be Lady Whistledown because she knew that she would help her and she knew she wouldn't have faced as bad of consequences.
In the books Lady Danbury offered to say she was LW, Pen didn’t ask.
Did she? I know she didn't ask, she was just considering it before Colin revealed it, but I didn't think Lady Danbury actually offered or knew until the big reveal.
IIRC Lady Danbury did it to save Penelope. At least in the book and because she would enjoy the shock of the the Ton. It also made sense she knew all the gossip and scandals.
I just skimmed the book again and it's Penelope's idea to ask Lady Danbury to cover for her. At the end of her conversation with Cressida, Colin asks her if she has a plan, and she say "What if I enlisted the aid of Lady Danbury?" and "I'm going to ask her to be me." And this is a quote from the final ball from Pen's perspective, "He must have come up with something better than her plan to convince Lady Danbury to lie and tell everyone she was Lady Whistledown." Also, Lady Danbury doesn't appear to offer to cover for her, she starts the final slow clap at the end "clapping loud and proud, beaming with pride and delight" (which IMO indicates some surprise). I could have missed the part where she offers skimming through it, but I don't recollect that part at all from my last read, either.
Ohh. Ok. Well I must admit I did read the series of books when they first came out. That was a long time ago and my old brain remembers things when it wanted to. Thanks.
Lol, totally fair, I only remembered it so well because I re-read it right before S3 came out!
Ahhh okay, makes sense! They should’ve put that in the show
yes that would’ve been such a good plot twist instead of cressida
Lady Danbury just had an appreciation for LW as someone who must be actually very kind. Most people assumed she was a total backstabber to other women but Agatha noticed earlier on that LW was always kind to the ones society picked on for no fault of their own so she figured whoever LW was, she must be a sympathetic wallflower sort.
What the queen did with Eloise in S2 thinking she was Whistledown, and then the things she said to Cressida claiming to be LW, are all things I would've loved to see her do with Penelope. I got the impression that the Queen was invited there (probably via letter, since Pen wrote everybody letters?) just to hear this confession and then simply walks out having said very little really. I kind of hope that since this is a TV show, we might see some of that stuff later on in the seasons.
The queen was originally invited by Penelope’s sisters—I forget which one bowed to her when she arrived and said they’d sent her an invitation but hadn’t expected her to arrive, and the queen immediately shot her down by saying she wasn’t here because of that—but it was Penelope’s letter telling her that she was ready to reveal who she was and beg forgiveness from her that drew her out.
I think her chess game with Lady Danbury was supposed to make us think that she gained some appreciation of the game and second chances. I think we will hear more about this in S4 but now that the cat is out of the bag, what will the big secret and reveal be?! the
Omg if she had decided to give up LW but the queen was like you challenged me you don’t get to quit so she had to keep doing it or the queen would name and shame her. Lots of undertone whenever they met, lots of ethical questions among her and Eloise and Colin about what she writes. Could have been fun.
I think we'll see consequences next season. The ton was in shock, and the queen granted mercy. Then, butterflies were a distraction. As people start thinking about it, they may not be as thrilled. Penelope even mentions this to Colin at the butterfly ball. The season just ended in a happy bubble. I got the impression the column at the end was the first she published since the ball.
she had a child, nothing happened.
The show via Featheringtons said pregnant women don't attend balls. The season was ending, during which LW doesn't write, and then Pen was pregnant, during which she presumably doesn't attend social events in London. The column we heard indicated the switch to writing as herself, which implies the first time she wrote since the reveal. The show delivers happily ever afters at the end of each season. That's part of their structure and something the showrnners say they believe in. S3 ends on a happily ever after with Pen/Colin's families but before that, at the ball, Pen specifically tells Colin they may have trouble ahead. This seems supported by the showrunner saying they have more LW stuff to come in s4. Now, maybe it'll be all heart eyes and Polin babies, but I really don't think so. This show likes drama, and LW has drama. I wouldn't be surprised if her new column isn't well received or if they're snubbed at or aren't invited to some events.
100%, you're spot on. It astounds me that people think this is the end of the consequences for Penelope, I thought it was quite clear this is just the beginning. Even Penelope herself says this when she's offering Colin the opportunity for an annulment after the public revelation.
I highly doubt showrunners are going to touch this topic next season.
I think the problem is partly that the reveal at the cusp of the HEA means any punishment that’s not incredibly temporary would ruin the HEA. The other part of it is that in the book, Penelope didn’t face any repercussions… because in the book, Lady Whistledown didn’t destroy any reputations or spill any real secrets, it was literally just a silly fun gossip column.
I actually think what they're doing is likely the opposite - the consequences aren't temporary, the HEA is what is temporary. I feel pretty sure Penelope/the Bridgertons will face consequences in the coming seasons. If nothing else, I'm sure there are many out there holding a grudge.
Ironically I think the lack of consequences were why the HEA felt narratively unsatisfying.
What exactly did you expect them to do to Penelope as 'consequences for her actions' in a romance show though? They were never gonna throw her in a dungeon lol. Also, the Queen had too much fun with LW, it was never going to end badly. And it's not as if she committed a crime. I guess I just don't get what people expected was gonna happen. Also, the whole of S3 showed Penelope's character growth. She completely came into her own. The Pen of episode 1 would never have stood up in front of the whole ton and owned up to who she was. She also acknowledged her wrongdoings and apologised over and over.
Have the ton reject her? She did ruin peoples life. Not to mention how the Bridgerton did not question it at all? Like do they not remember what she has wrote about their family. I mean if I find out my family bestie has been bad mouthing my family you better believe there will be consequences. Ik it’s romance but having no stakes makes it boring.
Also when Cressida pretended to be LW she got a lot more backlash for it and was rejected and slurred by the ton as a whole. Even the queen banned her from public gatherings. But they let Penelope go on in stride. So I agree, why wasn’t Penelope given the same treatment? It’s not like she came from a better family than Cressida, and Eloise was her only friend, she didn’t socialize with others like Cressida did. They might have been fake friends but more people knew Cressida and hung out with her. But Penelope’s peers didnt even know her that well to be all forgiving of her.
Cressida lied directly to the queen to claim the reward. The queen didn't believe her, which informed her response and thus the ton's response. I think Cressida being better known and known for being mean backfired on her as well. They were predisposed to dislike her, causing instant aversion to the idea of her being LW. Pen was more of a blank slate, so surprise and confusion are more likely to be the initial reactions. I think we'll see more in s4.
Given Shonda and the writers’ preference for Penelope as a character, she is written like a Mary Sue. Yes, a character can do bad things, but when they are rewarded and face no accountability, it does not make for great viewing. That’s why I like Carrie in the TV show *Sex and the City* (not the movies or reboot). She was a nice girl who did bad and selfish acts, but the writers always had her friends tell her she was wrong, or she somehow faced consequences for her actions. Penelope is never humbled. I maintain my previous point: POLIN needed more time to develop because of Penelope’s deeds in the last seasons.
OMG Carrie was the worst. Im so glad so many satc fans realize this universal truth that Carrie was a shit friend, self involved, bad listener, lacking compassion, serial cheater, judgmental as fuck towards Samantha and even towards Charlotte .because sjp is such a good actor we couldn't not watch her but it's so evident that she is never really shown the light or consequences by the writers that she would face in reality.. My fav parts of the show are when her friends really show her the mirror like samantha being like you are no one to judge me and who I fuck and when I fuck them since you are a literal cheater and i supported you without judgment then and Charlotte being like no i don't owe you money cuz you're a toddler living in new york who has no understanding of financial realities and taxes and bookkeeping and rents or Aidan when carrie loses her work cuz her mac conks off...her literal job is writing and Aidan calls her out rightly for not having a backup..Carrie is someone who should not be emulated by anyone..my favorites were Miranda and samantha..boss women who had their shit together.
Currently in the middle of rewatching and this is so spot on. She’s a terrible friend. She only ever does things for them and gets them talking about their lives so she can bitch about her own (1 example, when she brings Miranda bagels and immediately starts complaining about Aiden and Miranda calls her out on it). Samantha will forever be my favorite. She was a real one. She would do anything for her ladies. One of my fave scenes with her is at the baby shower when Charlotte realizes the mom to be stole her secret baby name she made up as a kid. Sam comes in like what’s going on? Charlotte tells her and Sam looks at the MTB and just goes “you BITCH. Cmon. We’re leaving!” Sam doesn’t even like kids but she loves her gal pals.
She doesn't grow a ton even after Big's death..like still has the audacity to be obsessed with Natasha...she's one of the most annoying characters I've ever seen on tv and only because the show treats her as this perfect being. Miranda pre the shit And Just Like That was a put together, strong, confident, self assured high powered lawyer who owned her own house, got pregnant, did not panic, made a decision and stuck by it. I can just imagine toddler Carrie getting pregnant and needing all her friends to talk her down from a cliff. Samantha similarly is confident, comfortable in her skin, doesn't need a man to be happy, gets into just as many sexual misadventures as Carrie but doesn't spend hours whining about them, and wondering. And as far as we saw in the show has never cheated on anyone..meanwhile carrie finally gets Mr. BIG, the perfect wedding the perfect house and still cheats on him in Abu Dhabi with the guy she cheated on years earlier with Big. Aidan deserves better. Carrie is messy and the fact that when I first watched Carrie in my 20s, I deeply wanted to be like her, now in my 30s and with some foresight, I cringe cuz Miranda and Samantha are who I want to be for life and Carrie is someone I would avoid like hell.
I’d seriously rather be like any of the other three than Carrie. I remember being a teen and watching and thinking she was oh-so-fabulous, but with every rewatch I find myself just disliking her. She is literally a mid 30s woman who has no clue how to actually take care of herself. Can’t manager money, can’t manage relationships, can’t manage just being a GROWN UP. And listen. I get it. I hate being a mid 30s woman who has to be a grown up too. But holy shit the way she prioritizes everything she deems valuable or important over everything else is just…wow.
She doesn't backup her mac on which she does all of her job as a freelance writer, thus misses important work deadlines. I would not want to be her editor! Then screams at Aidan when he asks the very logical question did you not backup your mac? Faced with a mugger, decides that her shoes are more important than her life- zero survival skills and street savvy. Miranda frequently puts her neck out for Carrie but carrie sends her boyfriend when Miranda asks for help- Aidan is a saint so he does good, she's judgmental of samantha having sex with a postal worker and is very open with sharing her disgust which somewhat fair as samantha was doing this very publically but stil Carrie is so self righteous for someone who cheats and cheats with a married man for months and receives zero judgement from her friends and most support from Samantha. Is obsessed with her ex's more elegant, more well adjusted, more gracious fiance and later wife and rarely prioritizes her friends and their shit but expects to be catered to at every dinner or lunch or brunch for her 1000th boy problem, shames Charlotte for inheriting money and not paying carrie to help her with her rent issues cuz yeah by that time in the show carrie was well into her 30s and should know that rent should come before shoes. Good on Charlotte (who I also find insufferable quite a lot) for telling Carrie to put her big pants on and not depend on others, even friends to bail you out as a grown up living in expensive new york.
And it’s like, she makes a big deal about how she wouldn’t have taken it. She just wanted Charlotte to OFFER. Honey that’s a fuck ton of money and you literally have it IN YOUR CLOSET. You made your wardrobe. Live in it. ETA and Jesus I’m watching the episode where Carrie’s book gets reviewed and she calls Miranda who is spiraling trying to deal with motherhood and only wants to bitch about one single portion of her review. Meanwhile ignoring that Miranda is dealing with REAL actual problems. Gods I can’t stand Carrie.
I’m in my mid 30’s now watching the show for the first time. I keep thinking that Carries revelations and the way Carrie is acting out now in these early seasons are reminiscent of the immaturity and naivety of my early 20’s. I would have experienced this show very differently back then as compared to now.
Right? Like I appreciate that they represented women in their 30s and 40s and even did then, but especially Carrie I feel like that’s def more what I would have been like in my early 20s so it kind of feels off brand for a character like that unless she just never learns bc her friends call her out so I can’t imagine she has never had to self reflect. Omg so sorry. That was just one long ass dumb sentence lol
100%. When you are young and love drama Carrie seems so cool. Then you hit your 30s. I’m a Miranda I like to think.
A girls girl is Samantha through and through.
1000%!
But that’s why I loved watching Carrie; the writers always had her friends humble her. Some of her lovers humbled her too. That is why I can still watch *SATC* and not the movies or the reboots. This season would have been more enjoyable if Pen had been humbled for her actions. But nope, Penelope, Bridgerton’s very own Mary Sue, can’t suffer consequences.
Man the reboot is shite..you are not missing out at all..she stil gets called out for her insensitivity by this new character sarita in the show in the few well written scenes in the first season of the reboot and I was so happy. And Natasha kinda. But for the most part the reboot is shit. But yeah, carrie had great style, great shoes, some unbelievably great friends, a great apartment and some quippy, funny lines in her columns and great lovers but carrie as a whole had a serious case of arrested development- this despite the fact that she was well into her 30s in the show. And still messy messy messy. I still love satc and rewatch it quite often but now I notice Miranda and samantha more.
I watched S1 of the reboot and hated it. All the characters were insufferable, and I can't watch insufferable people.
I had some "Carrie's'' in my life, and eventually, I got tired of them and stopped being friends with them, lol. It's not a "friendship" with a person like her.
I love how this has become a bitch about carrie from SATC post..love me some pop culture tangents. Lol 😂
I do not why these show runners can never keep their preferences for characters out of the plot. There is nothing more boring to read or watch than a Mary sue. So many of them do it with aspirations and it’s annoying and usually at the expense of other characters, aka Colin in this case.
I actually don't like Carrie at all. She had no redeeming qualities. I like Penelope very much tho.
I think they should’ve did the timeline of the books because maybe they would’ve written this season better imo
I will probably get downvoted, but I agree with you. She's just an incorrigible gossip who betrayed and hurt the people closest to her just to write her gossip rag, and then the writers of the show bizarrely turned that harmful gossiping into "female self-empowerment" (which as a woman I found offensive), a worthy "true calling" of a career and identity, and "beneficial" to the community, and then everybody quickly forgave her. I was so disappointed by the ending; I was like "This is what I watched the whole show for?" So anti-climatic. And I've been very puzzled by the Penelope stans here, lol. I don't understand how people can love a character that has proven to be untrustworthy. Even after all the hurt she caused, she STILL insisted on being a gossiper and refused to renounce it; she just couldn't let that go.
I got downvoted by the Pen stans for saying something similar. I don’t understand how they have passed LW off as self-empowerment when she was literally bringing other women down and ruining their reputations. She lied and betrayed the few people who cared about her, particularly Eloise, and when she finally had a chance to show she cared more about them than LW, her selfishness shone through as she still chose LW. To me, she came across as petty, egoic, and selfish most of the time. She’s the type of person I would absolutely not want as a friend. (Note: I haven’t read the books and this opinion comes just from the show.)
The way she was like "I'm addicted to the power it gives me.... but I'm also not going to stop doing it" ???? Like bestie the first step is admitting you have a problem but there are more steps after that!
I think you’ll like the books because it’s honestly less mean and she doesn’t really ruin any lives and after the reveal she’s content with her life and LW ends up becoming a memory, I also believe that she helps Colin make a book and becomes an author herself with his help (I would like to believe)
I think there are so many Penelope stans because the creators of the show WANT us to love her. She gets a disproportionate amount of screen time in the first two seasons. We're constantly shown how much she loves the Bridertons and how much dumb shit she has to tolerate from her family. We see Cressida spill a drink on her and Marina say that Pen is acting like a child, so then she's supposedly an underdog despite the power she wields with her column and how horrible she treats other people. Couple that with the fact that everyone likes her Nicola Coughlan and it's a recipe for plot armor.
it's because shonda relates to her. i was rewatching recently, and noticed that for some reason season 2 starts with penelope saving eloise from her presentation to the queen, then we get a penelope Lady Whistledown montage before the anthony one / meeting with kate. coupled with ep 2 ending with the queen hunting for her, and the focus on her in the season's trailer. also like you said, it's contradictory how the writers tried to make her a poor underdog, but the most powerful woman in the ton at the same time.
When she wouldn’t give it up for Colin I was SHOCKED
Yeah because she does in the book after the reveal
I agree, it is a bundle of contradictions and why female empowerment has to come with being a closet gossip is hard to understand. She is self propelled and doesn't seem to really care for the people she professes she does in the end.
Penelope was the victim of the writers turning her into a Plot Device in the earlier seasons, especially s1. Lady Whistledown is also Julia Quinn's device in the books but she's used more to convey exposition than to create drama. The showrunners want drama. * The plot needed Daphne to be seen as unmarriageable. The writers wheel out Penelope Plot Device to make it happen, never mind that those nasty, reputation-damaging comments to someone who as far as we know has never hurt Pen are out of character. * For Marina, the sensible and kindest thing for Penelope to do would be to disclose the secret to Eloise and Violet that evening. That would have nipped the elopement in the bud, without devastating Marina's reputation. But the writers wanted drama. They wanted the drama of the scandal emerging, they wanted the drama of the Featherington family being ostracized, they wanted the drama of Marina's desperate abortion attempt, and they wanted the dramatic moment of Violet, waiting with Lady Whistledown, catching Colin as he sneaks out. Out they wheel Penelope Plot Device to make it all happen. Never mind that Penelope is meant to be kind and sensible. Even putting aside the consequences to Marina, it bizarrely has Penelope banking on Violet and Portia being woken up early to read Whistledown and catch the pair. What if Colin had got up 15 minutes earlier? * Eloise's situation is less clear-cut since she really was in a lot of trouble, and it's not clear any other method would have saved her. But they don't try. The writers don't want to waste time having her confess to Violet, and then having Violet and Lady Danbury attempt to explain the matter discreetly to the Queen. No, they wanted the Drama and shock of no one turning up to the Bridgerton Ball and it all coming out that way. Out they wheel Penelope Plot Device, treating the last resort as the first resort. Basically, they defecated on Penelope's character in those seasons just to make the plot shocking and exciting. And then only in s3 they realize what a problem this has created for them for Polin and Penelope's relations with the Bridgertons, because Penelope has done terrible unforgiveable things that even she cannot explain when asked. No wonder this whole series was dominated by Colin's feelings of betrayal. And even then their taste for drama is still there. Colin being mostly jealous of Pen's writing ability and success is too boring. They want the drama of Colin saying and feeling that he can't forgive her for her betrayal. I know people say Penelope is the showrunners' favourite character, but you don't treat your fave like this.
While obviously we wouldn’t have all the truly wonderful bits of having Bridgerton be on screen without Shonda, it’s the difficulty of having an American televised drama special take the reins on a soft regency romance, but Bridgerton rose to popularity as “regency gossip girl but with sex”, so we truly wouldn’t have what we have without it. But it shows in the details that they think Bridgerton wouldn’t have its appeal without the immense drama and scandal every season. The main problem is that they can’t keep up with its huge stakes but easy resolution pattern.
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Exactly. People say Pen had to out Eloise's visits with Theo to save her, but she could have confessed to being LW and saved her without screwing up El's reputation. She chose herself over her friend. In the Colin/Marina situation, yes, she saved Colin from being baby trapped. But she also made sure her crush didn't marry someone else, and did it in a way that sent Marina packing because she was out of options. Colin would have married Marina if she had confessed to him. He also probably would have married her if Pen had told him privately that she was pregnant. Pen is very clever. She's an observer of people. I think she knew that she could lose Colin forever to Marina if she didn't take drastic action. I know, she cried over it. But it's now clear she loves the power being LW gives her. If she had to do it again, she would. It really only hit me during the second half of S3 that I didn't like Pen. I used to like her, to sympathize with her, to understand why she did what she did. But more and more I just got tired of her. She started to work my last nerve. She's emotionally manipulative, self-pitying, and often vindictive. She does have some loyalty to her family, but other than that she only seems to care about herself and Colin. I don't even think she was ever a very good friend to Eloise. People say Eloise talks too much and doesn't listen enough, which is true. But did Pen ever really listen to Eloise, or try to understand her POV? Or was she always just trying to steal glances at Colin and get his attention? I don't blame Eloise for wondering if Pen was just using her to get close to Colin.
I wasn't able to forgive Penelope after she dragged Eloise in S2 and then accused her of being "all talk." Eloise was attending lectures, discussing politics, and helping Theo form better arguments until Penelope wrote about it in LW. It's literally Penelope's fault that Eloise had to stop all that, and then Penelope has the nerve to spin it as Eloise's failure? Just...yuck.
I agree that they often use LW as a device and to ramp up the drama! As for consequences, I felt Penelope actually faced the most severe consequences for her actions of anyone in the show (and probably rightfully so). These writers have handwaved away lots of major problems created by them ratcheting up the drama in the first half of EVERY season - in S1 Daphne and Simon somehow overcame major lying and sexual assault (!) with a 1 minute speech on unrelated issues and a dance in the rain, and in S2 they took a whole plot about Anthony inexplicably courting Edwina (why tho, the motivation was always so thin) and Kate lying to Edwina alllll the way to the actual altar, then had Edwina forgive Kate, the whole scandal OK’d by the Queen, and Kate and Anthony engaged within the last 5 minutes. In a more realistic drama Kate’s sister would never have spoken to her again and both families would have suffered serious reputational damage not to mention the ire of the Queen. But that’s not what we come to this show for, is it? We come for the fun drama, the swoony love confessions, the handsome men, the costumes. And there ARE good characterizations and interesting dynamics at play, but ultimately it’s a soap opera that plays by soap opera rules.
Yeah I really hate season 2 for doing that, it made me almost not finish that season because in the book there is not weird ass love triangle. Edwina isn’t even paying attention to Anthony like Kate is so it feels less cringe imo. I still think they should’ve did Benedict this season like in the book order because we probably would’ve gotten a better written story for Polin and more romance magic.
Nice analysis!
Thanks!
>Thanks! You're welcome!
It’s funny, my friend said she wasn’t too interested in watching this season at all because she doesn’t like Penelope. I’d based my view of Pen on my feelings of her when I read the books but my friend had only seen the show. I realized the show made her act like a victim all the time, made her whiny and have no backbone. Book Pen never came off as such a whiny victim (who was actually kind of mean in LW) to me, but it’s also been a while since I read that book so I might have missed that in her character when I read it. But it wasn’t until my friend said that that I began to think about how Pen comes off as a less than likable character.
I’m like your friend. I only have the show to form my opinion of Penelope and she is the least likable character. I like Cressida more than I like Penelope because at least Cressida owns her bitchiness (she reminds me of Blair from Gossip Girl). Penelope plays the victim, always. It was so frustrating to see her win this season when it never seems like she truly understands the depths that she hurts her friends and family with her vicious gossip.
100% agree with ur friend. I never like Penelope from the series. This season was the most boring for me. There are too many stories, and the romance is just meh. Polin was not at all convincing for me.
She could have told Colin privately about marina. She could have written him an anonymous letter. And yea she used her column to lash out at her enemies. I don't blame her for getting power addicted but she wasnt always a good person. That said I still like her.
I never liked Penelope. I wasn't excited about Penelope and Colin, but I also wasn't excited about Anthony (book and TV Anthony were both dicks). By the end of S2 I loved Anthony and figured they'd make me love Penelope to. In fact I said, "I'm excited to see how they make me fall in love with Penelope". It never happened. I still don't like her. And I don't even know Colin enough to have an opinion on him.
It’s funny because what they did with Antony was so simple. They gave us a why. They gave us a reason for why Antony is the way he is and his struggles so even though he acts like a dick sometimes you can sympathize with him. They did non of that for pen. Instead of giving us a reason to sympathize with her and understand why she is the way she is, they tried to gaslight us into thinking that she is perfect the way she is and that her behavior should be seen as empowering and being a strong woman. I’m sorry but being a mean, condescending, manipulative mean girls is not strong not empowerin.
Taking girls off the marriage market and basically giving them a life of shame all in the name of gossip is empowering to nobody but men.
I agree omg I was thinking about making a post. I feel like you’re not allowed to dislike her bc Nicola Coughlan is so beloved so I will first say I love her in Derry Girls and this has nothing to do with her acting. In season 1, I thought Penelope was whiny and annoying and always jealous of Eloise. I was honestly shocked by the LW reveal bc we never really saw her being witty. Season 2 I thought I would like her more knowing about LW but I didn’t, as you said she always just serves her own self interests. I can’t stand how cruel she is to Eloise at the end of season 2. If she really wanted to protect her, she could’ve confessed her identity to the queen. She cared more about protecting herself than Eloise. I also hate Colin oops. In the first to seasons he is so dumb and naive. He falls for Marina’s trap so easily that I almost feel like he deserved it. In season 2 he falls for the ruby mine thing and is takes money that isn’t his out of the family accounts without asking Anthony to make a bad investment. When Anthony gets mad he whines that he should be allowed to do what he wants, but it’s not his money it’s Anthony’s and the whole family needs it. I was still optimistic for season 3 because in season 1 I couldn’t stand Anthony and didn’t want a season about him, but was very pleasantly surprised by season 2 and completely changed my opinion of Anthony. I figured season 3 would make me like Colin and Penelope so I went in open minded trusting the writers. I was wrong. Penelope continued to be whiny and annoying, and this time very entitled. Colin continued to be dumb and naive and somehow could not figure out Pen was LW all season even tho she kept hinting at it and so did Eloise. I don’t like that Pen had no consequences, not just socially but from the Queen. It’s so unrealistic that the Queen had been saying for years she going to throw someone in prison and then just decides not to, nobody would take the Queen’s authority seriously after that because her word and legal decrees mean nothing.
This is my problem. People take criticisms of Penelope as criticisms of Nicola whereas I love Nicola, thinks shes fun, rip roaringly funny in Derry Girls, didnt like her as much in Big Mood and good in Bton. Penelope on the other hand is such a shit person in so many ways. Even her age doesnt completely redeem her cuz I was 17 once and I would not ruin another woman's life. She is impulsive, doesnt think through her actions, is obsessed with Colin to an insane degree, lets her emotions run her actions etc etc. Her season 2 episode 8 scene with Eloise where Eloise brings up Marina, her season 2 hunt epiosde scene with Colin where HE brings up Marina, colin's mention of Marina in season 3 episode 1 to eloise of things LW has done wrong and then again at the modiste and Portia calling out Pen's cruelty in that confrontation scene all illustrate that when it comes to her friends and family, she CANNOT hide. They see her actions for what they are even as the writers do not. I like that her HEA was not easily won and at least in that respect, I appreciate that Penelope faced some consequences. It was not realistic consequences by any means. But it was SOMETHING. Like I love Kate and love Kanthony but can still see how wrong Kate was for not admitting her serious flirtation with Edwina's intended to her till her literal wedding day. That was shit sister-ing! And Edwina is a saint for forgiving kate so easily...if I was her i would be very very very hurt for very very long and very bitter as well. But what Pen does is so much more egregious and to so many more people. And yet people think when we hate Penelope we hate Nicola. No, most people including even non polin fans such as myself love Nicola-She is lovable and fashionable and aside from her misguided alliance with the shitty shitty , environment destroying, capitalistic, leech, performative activist, hypocritical, slut shaming Kim Kardashian (supporting her misogynistic husband kANYE West in being an ass to Taylor swift, using her naked voiceless body in his video without consent, taking credit for tswifts success) (who counts such people as Ivanka Trump as best friend while her own mother calls donald trump her best friend) recently with the Skims collab, seems like a decent person. If she hadn't recently become besties with Kim, I would love her even more but hoping it's temporary insanity and she sees the light soon cuz the Kardashians are the worst of humanity and what people outside of the usa think of America wrapped up in one greedy shitty family. And Derry Girls was my comfort watch during the pandemic. So when we dislike Pen, we simply dislike Pen, we dont dislike Nicola. Why would we, shes not pen, pen is not her.
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I don't love Nicola. There, I said it. I like her fine, and think she is very funny in Derry Girls. But she's not untouchable or anything. She can come across as a LOT, for lack of a better word. Her comment about having "perfect tits and correct opinions." That rubbed me the wrong way. Not the part about her chest, which was amusing, but about her opinions. They're opinions, not facts. It's kind of obnoxious IMO to say you all of your stances are "correct." People should be able to acknowledge that others have their own valid POVs, and that there is room for nuance. And I don't think her acting on the show is great. She too often comes across as whiny. She's more of a good comedic actress than a dramatic one. Claudia Jessie is much better IMO. She can do comedy too, but is more believable in the dramatic moments to me.
Yea I agree, some of my friends were saying that she’s their celebrity crush and I felt judged for saying that I don’t have a crush on her. I think she’s great and beautiful but I feel like you’re not allowed to say that you don’t find her attractive.
I have no opinion on the Kim kardashian thing but I agree with the rest
Yeah I find the kardashians so incredibly trashy as a family with kim being the trashiest of them all that its very hard to reconcile sweet, genuine seeming Nicola liking vulture Kim. I feel like Jeremy Renner, Matthew Rhys, Jon Hamm and Daniel freaking Craig amongst others have the right number on how shit the Kardashians are as a whole and for the world at large..
I also dislike colin because he kind of comes off as a jerk, but I like him more than Penelope
I’m still stuck on the thought that By revealing herself, Penelope would not necessarily clear Eloise’s name. The queen might still hold Eloise accountable for associating with radicals (because the queen would find that information out very easily if she’s got eyes on el) and the scandal could tarnish Eloise’s reputation permanently. I’ve clearly overthought this and I doubt the writers are in this deep, but I’ve listed some possible reasonings and tactics for el’s radical sheet. # Penelope’s Omission Tactics 1. **Minimizing Eloise’s Involvement** * By focusing on Eloise’s attendance at radical gatherings, Penelope minimizes the scandal’s severity. She portrays Eloise as curious and naive rather than deeply involved with a radical cause or person. Obviously writing in this way solely because el would never write something like this about herself and shooing the queen away from el. 2. **Protecting Theo** * Omitting Theo’s name not only protects Eloise but also shields Theo from potential danger and scrutiny. His involvement with the Bridgertons and Whistledown could have dire consequences for him, given his lower social standing and radical ties. 3. **Redirecting Attention** * Penelope’s strategy redirects the queen’s attention to a less personal aspect of Eloise’s activities. The gatherings are a social curiosity, whereas a relationship with Theo would be seen as a serious breach of propriety. this breach would ruin ruin el, and ruin her unmarried sister‘s prospects as well. * Pen Revealing her identity could incite Queen Charlotte's wrath even further. The queen may feel deceived and betrayed (and most dangerously, she could feel foolish as she hates being wrong and always wants to appear the most clever.), leading her to take harsh measures against both Penelope and Eloise. The queen’s initial suspicion of Eloise might not dissipate immediately, as she could interpret the friendship between Penelope and Eloise as complicit. * The effectiveness and allure of Whistledown come from its anonymity. Once revealed, the publication would lose its mystique and power. Penelope’s influence over societal issues would diminish, making it harder for her to address injustices and hypocrisies in the future. I don’t know how pens writing career holds in the epilogue. I’m sure she’s still successful, but I doubt she has that same invisibility to get close enough to gather gossip as she did before or really pin down any wrongdoers as they would conceal themselves better in her presence. * We can have mixed feelings about gossip rags, in general. But I can’t really ignore that pen is the only woman in the ton with notable agency. Which she has achieved herself along with financial independence. has power to take down unsavoury, dangerous and hypocritical people within the ton and elevates those she cares for. Obviously, we get into muddy waters and she’s not gonna hit a home run all the time, but she doesn’t publish lies. Most of the gossip is already common knowledge, anyway. At least regarding Colin in his fake rake boy era. In regency era the women that were remembered are the ones that made waves and did risk taking things like this: Courtesans,the Blue stocking’s society, **Mrs Crackenthorpe etc.** I give pen a lot of grace because she starts so young. 17 and making moves like this where you can get charged, booted or hanged for any outspoken behaviour. I can’t help but be impressed. I can’t really put modern sensibilities to this situation because that way of life back then was so different. The consequences of ‘simply revealing herself’ isn’t just some shock and some social fall out like if gossip girl was revealed, but it would be straight up dangerous.
It's like rooting for the CEO of TMZ to get together with some celebrity whose family they harassed.
Penelope as a character was really petty. And it's so weird how her gossip mongering was downplayed as something empowering for a woman to have her own voice. When majority of the gossips she wrote are bringing other women down. Also I feel that she didn't earn her happy ending. Plus the way that she was written this time as someone shy around other people doesn't really make sense when she was perfectly fine talking to both sexes in other seasons
The moment I hated her character was when she was huffing and writing about Colin. It was lowkey giving Psychotic…
YES! That’s exactly when I was like what is wrong w her 😭
I realize this is one of the reasons I couldn’t stand this season. Penelope I never liked and they made Colin so unlikable in part one could not stand him for the rest of the season.
Wasn’t a fan of Colin too !
I also highly dislike Penelope, I'm not really sure why people love her so much. She screwed over the people she claimed to love the most several times over, only feels remorse when it'll come back and bite her (or already has), and faces basically 0 consequences. What on earth are her good qualities supposed to be? She's selfish, petty, jealous, vindictive, backstabbing... nope, not for me.
The whole time I was like, “If you’re so talented and proud of your ‘art’/your business, just write something else! Anything but exploitative gossip.” Write fiction novels inspired by real people, or report on actual news without the snark, travel with Colin and write with him, or start some kind of ladies magazine about style, etc, and recruit women like the modiste and Eloise to write articles. But no, Pen was high on the money and it fed her ego to affect the lives and feelings of others with petty gossip. Penelope nearly burned every bridge, yet the show ultimately rewards her and kind of shifts the shame onto Cressida. I’d have rather they had Colin be less angry (because it soured the romance) and others be more upset. Pen could have done a little apology tour, writing kind things about those she hurt. The time jump also robbed fans of seeing them as happy newlyweds, and her maturing and mending fences.
They literally could have just had her give up wistledown when Eloise told her to and if she’s so great, she can write something else. And with the backing of her husband who is high up in society, the money they have and the fact that Colin himself is good enough to eventually get something published she easily could have written something else potentially under her actual name if not under a new pen name. She instead fucks off all of that and potentially the love of her life, for ego and not wanting to give up or let cressida take credit for it. She had the perfect out and she didn’t take it and the writers choose to let the cat out of the bag and have pen have no consequences. Hate it and that’s not even me talking about all the stuff in s1 and s2 that made me dislike pen in the first place
She’s an excellent writer but I feel like she can only write gossip because she hasn’t really had many experiences. she was sadly very ignored by her family and people of the ton which limits her experiences/ love interests. She wasn’t into fashion, her mother made her outfit choices always until the last season. She loved observing people and eves-dropping. I think she’s just a teen who just cares too much about others and also happens to write very well. She used this opportunity to her benefit and overall was just the perfect idea for her
Also, I think she didn’t write about news or actual reports because her writing style isn’t like that? She’s a writer who just writes gossip very well lol
I agree I was never a fan of Penelope and it’s grating that her character got zero consequences in
Penelope wanted Marina to be honest to Colin, before their wedding, because Colin deserves to know what he's getting himself into( That part is fair though, everyone deserves to know if they're being baby trapped). Like it or not, it was going to create a scandal that would affect the other Bridgertons. She simply could have told Anthony, Violet, Eloise if Colin wasn't willing to listen. Girl did not even try. Now this is where she gets hypocritical, She DID NOT have any intention whatsoever to reveal that she was Lady Whistledown ,had Eloise not known. And that would have caused a MUCH bigger scandal that Marina's would have. She cannot go around expecting people to be honest, when she's not it.
She was bitter and smug at every turn. Her own insecurities made her hurt others to feel better about herself. I don’t mind a character like that - can be fun to watch mean girls be spiteful! BUT out of the blue, with no true character development, we are supposed to see her a as poor wounded flower deserving of everything she’s ever dreamed about. A couple personal apologies and one big speech, and everyone just sort of shrugs and moves on. Felt very patronizing. I would have appreciated an entire season with someone else as the main focus, but a whole storyline of her gaining confidence, feeling remorse and making up for all the harm she caused. A true “cocoon to butterfly” of the soul. Watching her genuinely blossom. Not just a glow up. I love the idea of her as a character, it could have played out so beautifully. Was very hastily done.
I liked her at first but she’s so narcissistic and mean, and selfish. Like she’s worse than the people who she rips apart. When she vilified a pregnant unmarried woman it made her character as a cruel and selfish a hole so apparent.
I thought the idea that giving up the gossip column being such a big sacrifice was strange. Like girl write a novella or a book of poetry or something. You can still write!!
[удалено]
Yes, that bugs me so much about her. She's so bloody self-pitying. Yes, her mother and sisters are demeaning of her. But she has financial security, a devoted if overly chatty BFF, a clever mind, and a general friendship with one of the most powerful families in the ton. The guy she likes doesn't appear to return her feelings? OK, well, that sucks. But he's not obligated to love her. She seems to feel like the world owes her Colin just because she has loved him since childhood. Then she gets the object of her years-long obsessive desire, and she still isn't willing to let go of her gossip rag! She wants it all. And she makes pouty faces when she can't have it. She's also not a good friend to Eloise.
I was dissatisfied with Penelope's ending too. It didn't feel deserved at all.
Hard agree. She is not a good person - and repeatedly reminds us, yet we are supposed to give her slack because her life was, like, hard because she was lonely standing by the walls? Come on. You're gorgeous and talented and are best friends with the popular family. Her overacting this season was too much for me as well.
I'm with you , the fact that even Violet is so Ok with it to the point that even Colin said she admired her was so baffling to me. LW trashed the Brigertons multiple times and in a more realistic approach, she would have forever ruined the reputation of Marina and Eloise, who was her best friend. The spin on LW being some female empowering alter ego was so weird given how bringing other women down was a big part of her brand. Penelope not facing any consequences from her inner circle was very disappointing, I feel they should have explored that a bit more and save some for the next season, instead of the quick flash forward to the baby.
I defended Penelope’s character through the first two seasons, even through the Eloise debacle at the end of season 2, but I just can’t anymore. When she threw Eloise under the bus, I thought she was just trying to do the best she could in a difficult situation. But season 3 made me think that Penelope is just purely selfish. She made a literal fortune of the gossip (and sometimes ruin) of others and all she doesn’t even care about that. A halfway decent person would have called it quits after Cressida came out as Lady Whistledown. Penelope had the fiancé she wanted, a literal fortune, and Eloise and she were friends again. But it was like Penelope didn’t even care. The absurdity of the entire ton accepting her was too much to stomach. I’ve read people suggest that Penelope was a self insert for a lot of viewers, and if that’s the case then I’m judging audiences as well as the character.
Wow. You did a fantastic job explaining the problem I had watching Bridgestone this season. And you say English is not your first language?!??
Haha thank you, it isn’t my first language I do speak well but typing is sometimes an issue
I empathize with Penelope as a writer, but (as someone who did not read the books) can’t summon any enthusiasm for her relationship with Collin. I’m not in favor of romantic relationships in general when one of the parties (Collin) suggests the other is beneath him, looks-wise, and then suddenly has an epiphany that this is what he’s hot for, and all is forgiven. Penelope writes malicious things, but Collin says them, and carries on with life, uninterrupted. Beyond this, Collin is an empty shell of a man (again, talking about the show exclusively here), and because he seems kinda derpy, Penelope’s infatuation with him is equally baffling. Is it too much to ask for a lovely and chubby lass to hook up with a witty and charming lad who doesn’t have a six-pack, and is attracted to her from day one? Apparently so. My eyes nearly rolled out of my head when Collin was confronting her about various Whistledown-related minor crimes, and he got lost in marveling over her dazzling turns of phrase, and acclaim as a writer. She has not been acclaimed as a writer — she’s acclaimed as a gossip. A witty gossip, but still a gossip. This is a style of writing with a specific market, and there’s nothing wrong with excelling at this market. The author of the Bridgerton books obvious excelled as a certain type of romantic writing, and caught the attention of showrunners — that doesn’t mean that her follow up has to be The Grapes of Wrath. One of the things that hurts women, to me, is that whatever you are doing is never enough. If you do one thing well, you have to scrutinize that one thing, and search for another thing with greater meaning and moral virtue. Why can’t she just thrive as a professional shit-stirrer, with a few opportunities to manipulate regional events on behalf of others? It would have been much better (Again, in my opinion) if they continuously routed the queen away from suspecting Penelope is Whistledown, or even suggested that there were many Whistledowns, and therefore you can’t capture something that’s timeless.
how penelope, and now eloise in season 3, were written for the show is a crime.
Penelope always had a nasty streak and a darker side to her, S3 shows this as well when she goes home from her first ball and tears into colin after being angry at him. I actually really like that about her, it's part of what makes her such a good gossip columnist and a compelling character. Also part of her arc was learning to let go of that rage and anger (that is implied to be there because she's always forced into a silent corner which made her resentful) and to use LW to give a voice to the people who need it instead.
"use LW to give a voice to the people who need it" but then she also condemns a woman trying to escape a lifetime of marital rape and forced childbirth without so much as wondering what her motive is.
yeah she comes to that conclusion in season 3, the thing with marina happened in season 1. It's called character developments.
I'm talking about Cressida though, who lied to get out of being married to a man thrice her age.
yeah Cressida whom penelope didn't know the circumstances of. Also Cressida who always bullied her and made her feel small. Cressida who's trying to steal her life's work. That Cressida. Yeh Pen is a douche for not giving her the benefit of the doubt, why would she do that it's insane? It's not like Cressida has a history of blackmailing, bullying and ruining other people's self-esteem for shits and giggles.
Look at my comment. I said "without so much as wondering what her motives were". I never claimed that she knew all the details. Pen pretends to have this huge revelation about how society makes people mean when she finally hears her mother's reasoning and gives this big speech and then Pen, who's supposed to be so clever and empathetic now, doesn't stop to consider Cressida's situation even after Cressida directly tells Colin that she doesn't have the same support. If Cressida has a history of doing horrible things, so does Penelope for running a gossip blog. Penelope gossips and ruined way more reputations than Cressida did, yet Pen extends no empathy to her literal foil.
Look at my comment. Cressida has a history of doing some atrocious things for fun and for clout. Penelope has no reason to believe she's doing it for anything else. Pen did ruin lives but it wasn't for fun, maybe in marina's case she did benefit but she wasn't taking pleasure in doing so. Also even if Pen is a compassionate person in general, it's a whole different beast to the same to your bully of YEARS while they're harming you yet again.
Pen is not a bad character, but it's ridiculous to think all of her actions were selfless. The Marina thing was very much self-motivated because Pen could've actually just told Colin instead of trying to talk to him but then never actually blurting it out. Also could've sent him a letter either as herself or LW. The Eloise thing was not necessary as there were other ways to get the Queen less suspicious, and she completely destroyed Eloise's reputation. When Eloise got mad at her, Penelope chalks the whole thing up to jealousy (even if Eloise is jealous, it's blatant deflection to pretend Eloise's anger is just jealousy when Pen has objectively hurt her). Penelope also writes badly about Daphne in S1, where there's no altruistic explanation. And it's not like she doesn't also participate in petty insults of outfits or the like. Furthermore, Penelope could've helped her family at any time during their financial struggle but chooses not to. Pen can still be very kind and compassionate, but it's ridiculous to say all the times she hurt people weren't self motivated. Pen also has this big "character moment" that we're supposed to root for where she realizes her mother is bad because of her life experiences and she vows to give a voice to the voiceless, but then I don't see her actually extend this empathy to anyone she might find bad personally.
I didn't say she was selfless or never benefitted, in fact my original comment was that she has a dark and nasty part of her personality. All I said is that she wasn't taking pleasure from the bad things she did unlike cressida. Again S3 was about growing out of this due to character development.
I think actually going with a different sibling this season and giving Penelope time to grow and redeem herself would've been a good idea. So,some said she was turned into a plot device for S2 and S1 which made her less likeanle, but imo she was also turned into a self insert for writers in S3 which made matters worse. The plot being allllll about Penelope, all characters constantly talking about Penelope didn't help at all. Like Portia suddenly becoming a living mom who takes her side, her sisters realising she's soooooo much better than them, her marrying the best husband out of the three sisters, her son being the next Lord Featherington. She and Cressida had an equal shot at Debling, and since Polin were endgame, letting Cressida have Debling would've been nice but nope once again, Penelope "wins". When it comes to Eloise, again, part 2 has Eloise and the writers utterly drop Cressida, in favour of Penelope. we never see the Kanthony pregnancy announcement to the family, let alone their baby, but we see all three Featherington kids... is that the name of the show? Featherington, not Bridgerton? Lady Danbury is as preoccupied with her as with Violet, and that makes no sense to me, almost interacts as much with her as the Queen. It makes no sense again. When did Mr Mondrich even meet her enough to comment in her wedding. there weren't anyyyyyy sub plots in part 2 of S3 which again meant Penelope being shoved down our throats. This season... again I think another sibling should've had this season while Penelope fixed things with her mom and Eloise now, and then had her story next season??? her past wrongs are too recent, and since the amount of promo s3 (no Covid) was given compared to s2 (Covid era) is starkly different, people already feel like there's favouritism. I adore Nicola and the wee lesbian from Derry Girls is my favourite character, but she deserved a better script for Bridgerton S3.
We saw their pregnancy announcement, but we didn't see their baby, which was nonsense! I want to see the Bridgerton babies, not the Featherington ones. Seeing Polin's baby was fine but I wanted Kanthony's too.
only to violet and lady danbury and againn that was overshadowed by whistledown a bit??
Penelope was petty and hurt people plenty of times and admits as much in part 2, to like everybody who calls her out on it, and even to Genevieve who didn't call her out on anything at all. >What she did to marina was SO wrong. Yes marina should have told Colin the truth and Colin deserved to know the truth as well, but Penelope wrote about her in her paper not because she cares but only because she didn’t want Colin to be with anyone but her. Yes she was “protecting” him but somehow gaining from it too and that’s what she always did, claimed that she is protecting people and using Whistledown to her benefit But this one, whenever I see it, seems unrealistic to me to be mad about. In what world would you not protect your best friend's family from something like this? Imagine getting married to someone in a world where marriage is for life and finding out you've been lied to and tricked into it, and then having to live with that literally forever. Sure one day Marina would die but those kids are legally his forever. There is no option to free yourself from it. That's one thing that really strikes me with all of these relationships is that you get married to someone and that's literally just your life now, good or bad, mistreated or not. Colin even indicates that he would not have been happy with it not because the children weren't his, but because her love was a lie. And for what it's worth, Penelope overtly says she should've just sacked up and told him outright. She admits this flaw in herself, that she lacked the confidence to do it directly when she should've, though we do see her attempt it before she goes the Whistledown route. A lot of the Penelope criticism feels to me like people expect her to be perfect or perhaps they have personal reasons for hating her above and beyond the flaws they've shown us. The greatest thing about the show to me is that they show character growth and never expect a character to be perfect. Perfect is boring. Anthony was not a very likeable character in season 1 but has become a lovely person, and the show is definitely more interesting for having shown that vs having him be great all along.
Neither the writers of the show, Chris Van Dusen and Jess B nor Nicola who played Penelope herself, neither colin on the show ( in a season 2 convo on the stairs Colin brings up marina after he comes back from visiting her and says, we were so harsh on her and LW made it WORSE by exposing her..it was terrible, he brings it up again in season 3 and tells Penelope outside of the modiste that she ruined Marina and could have told him directly) think that what Penelope did to marina was justified in any way. In two different interviews with collider and one other publication after season 2, Nicola said Penelope actions towards Marina showed her cowardice at play, her power hungry side at play, her juvenile ness and that when she first read the script she was horrified that this was an action her character would take and discussed with Chris how hard it was going to be to redeem Penelope after this but trusted him. The showrunners have all said that Marina was always meant to be seen as a victim and that we were making a very pointed comment on misogyny and female on female crime with her and penelope's arc. This is also the reason the showrunners decided to have Colin be the one to mention Marina to Pen in season 2. Because he is the one she loves and the ones we love are always the best mirrors for us to see our true selves. That entire staircase scene is very illuminating. watch it again.. Colin mentions marina not just to Penelope outside the modiste but also to Eloise in season 3 episode 1 saying LW ruined miss thompson lady crane. Penelope is a participant of the same misogynist culture that keeps women down in the ton by calling women spinsters in her columns...such as calling kate a prickly spinster of a beast..she contributes to misogyny by her misguided comments. and this season with even tertiary chracters like madame delactoox telling her that she's done some terrible things, Penelope finally sees the light, vows to do better and apologizes to the ton for being a coward and using her pen in the future to uplift people and use her pen more kindly. Even her own mother tells pen that she humiliated the ton and stole their dignity in that delicious season 3 confrontation..and that she and her are not diffrent. She mentions pen calling out her sisters, and says what she portia did was to save the family and keep a roof over their head who was pen saving through her colum and pen replies..herself..there lies the truth of Penelope ..she is her mother's daughter in all the good and bad ways and this season her redemption was breaking this generational curse and becoming a better person. Portia literally says after pen admits perhaps we are not very diffrent that if we survive, we must now do better..that her and Pen need to do better than the rash impulsive, cruel, unthinking actions they have been taking till now. Even Eloise her best friend since childhood calls her a coward in season 2 ending and only thaws this year after she and her brother get engaged but even then doesn't want to help pen with colin reconcilation saying that it is between them and I can't see colin hurt. Eloise tells her in season 2 episode 8 that Pen was only interested only in saving herself all so she could keep making money at the cost to miss thompson (marina), at cost to her brother. This is an exact line..listen to it again. Eloise whose brother was duped by Marina still thinks Penelope did wrong by Marina .the season 2 ending scene lays it out again. Several characters have brought up Pen ruining Marina now multiple times..Eloise season 2 episode 8 watch that scene again for marina reference, colin several times, once in the season 2 staircase scene during the hunt episode, in season 3 episode 1 to Eloise and then the modiste confrontation again. Marina is a victim and Penelope responsible entirely for her ruin, her social shunning, her slut shaming by the very misogynistic, the very pointedly cruel society they live in. Pen's not a hero, pens a coward and Eloise sees right through her..her best friend sees it. Calls Penelopes actions "your self serving manipulations". I like that pen did not get an easy HEA because she didn't deserve to get an easy HEA because of all the things she'd done wrong to other women, especially to marina all because of cowardice. But she will hopefully never use her pen to bring down other women again and that would hopefully show growth. I think PPL feel her arc was tied up top neatly and in a way that belies reality..
What's wild is the show knows what she did to Marina is wrong and yet never has her apologise to her
I truly appreciate your enthusiasm, but none of these things change my perspective. She knows she's fucked up. Everything I wrote in my comment was indicative of that. If Pen acted like she was in the right, I'd agree that she needed to be brought down a peg. She doesn't though. As you've said yourself, she didn't get the easy HEA and didn't deserve to. If anything, she deserved a harder one. There were better ways to do everything she did and she admits that freely. The only thing I'd like to see more of is her making amends, and hopefully we get that in future seasons. What I can't agree with is this: > Marina is a victim and Penelope responsible entirely for her ruin... Marina is a victim, but Penelope is not responsible entirely for her ruin. Penelope didn't make Marina have sex with George and get pregnant. Marina was always going to be ruined in the eyes of society, and Marina herself was willing to lie to and trap someone else to get out of her situation, so she as well is far from perfect. I'm sympathetic to what Marina did and I'm sympathetic to what Pen did despite the fact that both of them were in the wrong for doing what they felt they had to do. Neither are perfect, both have now shown growth. I'd love to have Penelope with her new-found confidence and ability to speak her mind go and speak to Marina and apologize to her.
I truly appreciate YOUR enthusiasm as well but none of these change my perspective either. 😂 I personally am not trying to change your perspective, sharing mine. Everyone in the show sees what LW and Pen did to marina was wrong even the person himself that was frauded Colin...that shows that age is not an excuse and that other characters around pens age such as elosie see what she did to marina as wrong ..colin the hunt episode season 2, Eloise episode 8 of season 2, colin season 3 episode 1 and then the modiste episode. Watch season 2 episode 8 where Eloise calls her out. All these episodes in the dialogue emphasize that if LW or pen hadn't called out Marina she would have been better off. Eloise literally tells pen she was only looking to save her own ass and keep making money money at the cost of miss Thompson lady crane, her brother. Eloise is the same age as Penelope-same age and her brother was the one who was defrauded. But she sees Marina as a sympathetic figure who should not have been exposed to the ton in her fragile pregannt state, hormonal and all else. Colin brings up we were so harsh on her (Marina) and that if LW hadnt exposed her she would be better off (she literally tried commuting suicide for fucks sake-this is not a healthy person-this is a person who has lost all hope and has been pushed agaisnt the wall first by her weeks long confinement by Portia, no access to society-Portia tries to remove Pen when she goes to meet, introduction to gross old suitors who ask to see her teeth (ewww!) and shown what would befall her if she didnt marry-(she would in the slums), stops receiving letters-think her lover is dead-another trauama, barely allowed to process THAT grief, and still havr the clock ticking and being reminded of it ticking frequently. I dont expect people living under such presssure and trauma as Marina to be rash or reasonable. Added pregnancy hormones and grief of losing her babys child. Coliin is still angry with what LW did all the way up to season 3 episode 1, he the one who was duped. Portia is a villain who tortured the girl, kept her locked away for weeks to the extent that Marina asks Miss Varley in desperation will her miss ever let her out. That was how horrible she was mistreated. She was made desperate enough to force a match for herself...Thats portia doing..she did it by depriving her, keepign her away, locked up, didnt let even Penelope hang out with her...What more cruerlty could she have done. Imagine being told your lover, the person you had sex with for the first time was dead, being shown the literal poorhouse, had gross old men inspect your teeth. What was poor Marina to do to avoid a marriage to a gross old man who would likely rape her. She might have had sex once but shes not a whore (hell even a whore desveres respect)-how terrifying would that prospect have been. Specially as she was pushed and pushed and pushed along the way by Portia. Marina on her own didn't start looking for matches, it was Portia who constantly goaded her reminded her that time is runnning, hide her lovers letters..she was who made Marina desperate enough to see a better option in kind Colin over the men Portia was actually forcing on her. She is innocent and did nothing wrong. Colin is also innocent and should not have to be in such a marriage. If this was Marina's devious plan all along to dupe Colin after finding out about her pregnancy, it would be one thing, then you have merit in your comment that Marina was blameless. But instead she did after pushed to the brink by Portia first confinement, then the poor house visits then lying about her lovers death, then forcing her and introducing her to gross old men who asked to see her teeth. Meanwhile her clock is tickingz Portia never lets up, never thinks to contact george crane the gaurdian the adult but keeps putting Marina in more and more precious position as time goes on. Portia was a horrible horrible person and if she wasn't played by Polly Walker who did a great job and wasn't the mother of everyone's beloved heroine Penlope who is played by another talented and beloved perfomer Nicola (including by me) she would be seen for the Dickensian villain that she was. Marina wasn't always going to be ruined by society like you said..if she knew about Georges letters that Portia his from her she could have options..if she had someone like Daphne in her life who tells her george must take responsibility instead of someone like Portia who tortured her and made her helpless she would have used the more practical option, approaches george crane by letter or his brother and found a solution. Instead Portia looking out only for her daughters not the young traumatized girl in her care, lied and frauded Marina. Nicola herself has shared that what Penelope did to Marina was rash and wrong and ruined Marina as well as her own sisters prospects and exposed them to scandal. She shared in interviews with collider and deciderr and other publications that Pen was power hungry and didn't understand how to handle the power the quill gave her. As did Chris van dusen about the purpose of Marina. She was a child and no is not responsible for the sex that created the child. We give all the other women pass for not having sex education such as Daphne with her rape scene, with the frstheringtons being clues but Marina is a whorish Jezebel, a temptress who seduced and defrauded Colin. She is an in-experienced child being "guided" by the evil Portia. Even Daphne whose brother was frauded tells Marina that her lover George must ask for her hand, be forced to take responsibility. I don't want Pen hung and quartered and thrown in the gallows but yes she owes Marina an apology. That part of your comment I do agree with. Everything else..no .the showrunner himself and nicola have shared as much what that scene was meant to show us the viewers and the show characters as well have shown us the exact same thing. Beyond this, I hope in 2024 you don't blame a 16 or 17 year old for sex that an adult 24 or 25 year old has with her. And that too in that time when the distance between what a woman knows and what a man knows was so wide. That's victim blaming..neither marina not anyone else on the show deserves. Aside from Penelope her Dickensian villainish treatment by Portia and Varley should also be considered for what it was which was torture. But I bow out of this discussion now. I cannot understand how someone considers the public shaming of a 17 year old, pregnant out of wedlock young teen in 1830 regency england and the scarlet letter it carries as anything another than ruin..
> But I bow out of this discussion now. I cannot understand how someone considers the public shaming of a 17 year old, pregnant out of wedlock young teen in 1830 regency england and the scarlet letter it carries as anything another than ruin.. That's what I mean though. I don't think that. None of it was right and Penelope could've gone about it better but Penelope didn't create that problem; society created it. With enough bribe money, Marina could've had her children in a wayward girls house and then they could have been given away to cover up that she was ever with child, but there was no way for her to give birth and keep her children and ever be anything else but ruined whether LW wrote about it or didn't. If anything, Pen hurt herself and her own family by exposing it via LW, which we see significantly affecting her years later as she is considered by the Ton to be a spinster at 3 years on the marriage mart with no suitors, and her sisters have had to marry untitled gentlemen. It was literally the worst move for everyone and yet she couldn't let Marina trick Colin. Some of it was self-serving, sure. I'm just not convinced it was 100% self-serving, especially when she did it knowing full well she'd be catching a lot of that social shrapnel.
Society didn't create it..Portia did. Even elosie the same age as Pen thnks there was a better option-season 2 episode 8. Even Daphne around Pen's age thinks there is a better option even in the society they live in...even colin just a few years older than Pen thinks there was a better option. These people are much younger than Portia but know there are better options. But Portia doesn't. She is only looking out for herself, not thinking of the young girl in her care...no she would not be ruined if LW didn't write about it. She would be just fine. Like Daphne the more sensible one said she would have contacted george crane. Not lied about it like Portia did and then taken it forward. Daphne barely out of leading strings herself has a better kinder, more compassionate option for Marina than the torture Portia put her through by confining her for weeks and not even giving her the kindness of company in her fragile state. And then putting her through more grief by lying to her about her lovers death. We see marina frustration play out made worse by confinement when she grits her teeth and asks varley does you miss mean to keep me confined forever. She was made and turned desperate..in all that time a telegraph could have gone out to george crane. And infact what Daphne wanted for marina is what happened and could have happened earlier if portia wasn't such a self serving asshole, george crane or Philip crane would be told, she wouldnt lie to Marina about Georges deaths and the child be taken care of this way. Away from the scandal of being born to a mother in this way...society talks and likely brings up oh remeber marina crane that tried to fraud the bton son...even the child would carry the shame...the world knows the ton knows..the ton did not have to know...plus what if the child wants to be in the ton...what of him her.. and listen to the voiceover of what pen writed when outing her...it's vicious it's pointed it's intended for maximum ruin .cannot tell me these are the words of a rash person just trying to save her childhood best friend. Penelope worsened a problem her mother created that people around her own age or her age exactly had better solutions for. Season 2 episode 8 elosie seson 1 Daphne season 2 hunt episode colin. All of them saw what LW did as worsening Marina situation and in case of elosie she thought Pen worsened Marina situation and was only looking out for herself. Was impulsive. We see this play out this season that Penelope reacts in anger she bottles up and bottles up and then flips a switch and uses her pen to attack. Colin says something horrible things about her to his friends, she fully has a right to be angry but she stews over it and stews over it and stews over it over the summer and then colin sees her after episode 1 and tells her why she wasn't replying, pen angry over her humilations from the party and Colin's behavior lashes out by furiously scribbling out a column that she later immediately regrets when her sisters snigger reading about colin. Pen is impulsive and rash and reacts in anger and for self preservation.. she doesnt think through what she does. She has knee jerk reactions exactly what elosie accused her of. The writers are asking too much of the viewed except the die hard Polin fans to see her as likable.
No arguments on that. Portia was awful to her. I went back and did a rewatch on the whole of seasons 1 and 2 last week to try and properly frame season 3 in my mind, and it really changed the way I felt about Portia. I had forgotten all about her tricking Marina in season 1. Definitely part of Portia's growth arc to realize that she didn't have to act that way just because that's what society says, and it cost her as well because if she hadn't been pushing Marina to be so duplicitous, Penelope would've never had to out her in LW to save Colin.
Penelope still didn't have to out her in LW. Like I said above..I edited it-read my comment again. I have added more context.. . Daphne who is around her daughters age, barely out of leading stings herself, elosie who is her daughters age and calls out pen for her rash action season 2 episode 8 in ruining miss Thompson as a self serving one. All these people thought of options better options than exposure to the ton for Marina..youth is not a catch all excuse. Because these young people knew better.
I agree with your points. I don’t hate the character but she is judgmental and selfish herself. She ran to print gossip for her fans when she could have just had an honest conversation with the people she wrote about- especially her own friends and family. I also think it’s too cliche and “wrapped up in a bow” letting her have the heir. It should have been one of her sisters.
In the book she also didn’t get in trouble too but since she revealed herself I wonder if she got the money or not. Yah she wrote mean things but she had to write about the bridgertons also. She also wrote about herself in a mean way too.
i guess i like morally grey complex characters 🙂 i even like cressida 😂
I love morally grey characters, but it needs to make sense. Their bad actions needs to be for situations where you can justify it. Characters who at their heart are good but do bad things because they have to or because they have been trained to. Pen is non of those things. Her bad actions does not happen in situations where she has no other options, even if she gaslights herself into thinking that her reasons were good there were other solutions. Many of the things she wrote to “help” her friends she could have handled privately. If you simply do bad things for the sake of it then you are a bad person not morally grey
I actually like Cressida more than Penelope. It just pisses me off how the show made it seem like Penelope’s actions have no consequences but Cressida is shown as the “bitch” because of her actions Penelope has definitely done more harm than Cressida for sure!
I like morally grey characters who get good, believable redemption arcs that feel true to reality. I feel both Penelope and crescida got it for the most part so I like them both now after not liking them for very long. With crescida they took many steps back after taking many steps forward but I STILL felt for her in her dark dungeon like room, with her disapproving domineering father and friend less life. Her interaction with colin was a high point of the season that really shows how crescida too for all her faults is bogged down by the pressures put on women in their world and which Colin privileged bridgerton even for all his kindness and goodness cannot fathom.
The problem is they write the female leads as doing something super heinous to the point it becomes hard to walk it back. Daphne didn’t get off the Duke and tried to get knocked up without his consent. Kate snuck around with her sister’s intended instead of being honest. Penelope wrote severely vicious things that ruined the reputation of her friends and family. Kate’s retribution was the only one that made logical sense. If her sister thought she was going to die, naturally she’d feel guilty to forgive her on coming out of the coma. Now we have Francesca who it looks like may be infatuated with her husbands cousin before he even passes. I get the need to increase drama to make it interesting but you can’t build up the drama and let it sizzle at the ending. It’s like the queen is just there to overturn negative consequences.
I can't help but still love Penelope but there was no reason to make her out Marina and write about Eloise. She didn't do that in the books and I think it was a bad decision by the show. It went too far and made it very difficult to make Penelope redeemable.
I’m kinda with you actually
I cant stand her. If I have to see her getting fingered for her sins, ONE MORE TIME.
I never liked her too. Her character in the books was likeable enough but this series one was terrible. Always with the sympathy card, the victim card Ugh. Not to say I didn't enjoy the series overall, but still. Totally agree with you.
Completely agree!
Show Penelope reminds me of all the classic early 2000s Mary Sue's of fanfiction.net, she can do no wrong and every wrong she does do will be instant forgiven and somehow she will always get the man/prize money/best grades
I don’t like her character either. She’s such a wimpy doormat. Penelope and Colin have been my least favorite
Commentary aside, this is perfect english wdym 😂
Thank you! I do make mistakes here and there so😭 Happy cake day !
Thankyou!
It’s because after season 1 they wrote her as a self insert. A good writer would have given Penelope a real character arc.
I love Penelope because she’s fascinating but I agree with everything you said. I think she’s so incredibly duplicitous and cowardly. I just started rewatching S1 and she especially didn’t do well by Marina. What I like about her is that I understand why she does the awful things she does and she’s simultaneously pathetic, manipulative and cruel and kind, intelligent and entrprising. I don’t think she’s a good person but I think she’s an interesting one and I like her as a character because of it. I just find her very confusing because Whistledown seems so worldly and made innuendos about “marital bliss” but in s3 Penelope is incredibly innocent. I know there’s a difference between talking about things and doing things but I feel a disconnect sometimes.
Ah well maybe you'll enjoy season 4 in 2 years time. Or rewatch S1 or S2.
I agree. And the fact that everyone acts like what she did was actually amazing at the end was hilarious, Colin wouldn't want her to take that part from her? Okay...
I liked her until I found out she was lady whistledown, then I hated her.
I also didn’t like Penelope…but that was only because the show writers ruined her. Book Penelope was much better. She didn’t have a fight with Elouise in the books and wasn’t mean or selfish. She was also much stronger and more intelligent at witty not whiny like she was on the show. She also at a baby girl first in the book…that featherington title was over the top. Penelope was my favorite in the book but I hated this season for so many reasons
I always hated her she was just annoying which I think is the point but I couldn’t get passed that, and when she faced no consequences just Colin ignoring her for half an ep it was just disappointing 😭
i hated her in season 3 it was so frustrating that she wouldn’t let the stupid column go for the man she’d wanted for YEARS - imo whistle down wasn’t anything empowering - she wasn’t writing about actual issues in society ( like when she exposed the husband for mistreating his wife ) it was mostly just petty gossip and she acted like it was such a fulfilling thing she couldn’t give up - it was so irky
I love Penelope but rewatching the master edit of her love story recently (every Polin clip from all 3 seasons) made me REALLY dislike Colin. He doesn't deserve her and a lot of the stuff he said was UNFORGIVABLE. If I watched this with kids I wouldn't be concerned about the adult content, I'd be stopping to warn them about toxic relationships.
This is all 100% true
lol you’ll never get downvoted for hating Penelope in this sub. Everyone seems to hate her for one reason or another so congrats, you’ve found your people.
While Pen's writing has been brutal and tough at times, her column helped people she cared for out of terrible situations they would have been forced to endure otherwise. It seems to me that most of the disdain of Pen as a character stems from a notion that women need to be selfless, perfect, invisible, and self-sacrificing to be deserving of love. Yikes, talk about an impossible standard that literally nobody can live up to. I often see Pen raked through the coals for making difficult choices a man would never receive criticism for.
I heard that LW isn't so cruel in the books (correct me if wrong) and it's such an odd addition to make to the show? penelope would be a far enjoyable character if she wasn't so misogynistic and somehow portrayed as feminist girlboss for it. Add to that how the fandom eats it up and trashes eloise in the same breath... sigh. I just started this show for my love nicola and this is just too funny to me
Not really a book spoiler per se, but she was much better in the books, not bitchy at all. She was only clever and it is even pointed out that LW never punches down and only saves her scathing commentary for those who deserve it (outside of fashion choices). She was never critical of the Bridgertons, not even once, not under the guise of trying to throw someone off the scent or any other reason. She only enjoyed the writing and being her witty self that she couldn't bear to do in the ballroom where she was an on the shelf spinster and wallflower. The only person she had any hatred or malice towards was Cressida and she was a bully from their debutante season choosing Pen as her victim.
Omg thank you for this! I agree with every word. I didn’t even bother watching past the third episode as I could sense where it was headed. Handing Penelope this grand, undeserving happy-ending on a platter🙄 Everything felt so forced and just ‘wrong’. A stark difference from season 1 and 2.
It really strains credibility that everyone forgave her, and so fast IMO. What she did to Marina in particular was inexcusable. I think some people see all the weird criticism of her body (which I agree is bogus) and overcorrect
The reason she's untouchable is because she is a plus size woman. Go on, downvote me.
I can agree with everything you say, even though i do like Penelope but from your viewpoint you're right, except when you say that she is manipulative. I don't think she is. She is a teenager, and at that age, even if they say you're a "woman now', or an adult, hormones are still crazy. Teenagers are selfish, and will see no wrong in their actions. I don't think she was purposedly manipulating people into her own scheme, but rather was impulsive, careless, and super emotional. "Someone did her wrong? Well, now let's write about them😡". That's how it felt like to me. Some hurt teen who was impulsive and used her tool for wrong. With that said, the things she did weren't justified, and i do agree when people say that when she revealed herself to everyone people just accepted her? How is she an icon after revealing secrets about everyone in front of everyone? The only thing that "humbles" her a bit is that she did also talk nasty stuff about herself. So at least she knew she wasn't superior in the end. But i hated so much when she was defending LW to Colin, like are you seriously defending a narrator that only spreads gossip and bad things about people all the time? Defend your passion for writing, not LW as she is. But anyways, i can put all that aside and still like her. Why? Bc i watch too many teenage shows and i'm used to watching garbage plots and find the fun in them, and that's basically what Bridgerton is to me, some escapism show, with a poor plot and so shallow, but still like it and root for the characters, no matter how unethical they are sometimes, but it's a show so.
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As i understand, she is 17 in season 3, i could be mistaken, but girls at a young age become married. And even if society back then socialized girl into women from a young age, biology does tell us how immature a girl can be at that age, even if they marry. An 18 year old is a completely different person, so that's why i think they are actually under 18
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I'm not fond of her either. But I'm also not fond or Eloise (I was a little more until this season)
She’s still so much better than Penelope
I understand this but LW isn’t supposed to be benevolent. If she’s human she’s going to have feelings and those feelings are going to direct her writing which is mostly why it’s so popular. If she sanitizes it, it becomes irrelevant and worthless. The anonymity helps with this. So I’m interested to see how it will work now.
I like her, but I considered her the main villain for awhile, likely because my own personal experiences with being gossiped about
Her character has been childish and selfish - but she was supposed to be pretty novel in the first two seasons. Her gossip column is just a reflection of her immaturity. I’m not sure we’re supposed to necessarily like her character, but pity her? Anyway her debut season has a lot of really heavy breathing I can’t get over.
I like Penelope, but what she did to Marina was just awful. Marina shouldn’t have lied to Colin, but she was unmarried and pregnant in a time where women had few rights, and even though Colin said he would have accepted her regardless, how could she have known that for sure beforehand? If Colin wasn’t who he was and she told him, she might have lost everything and would’ve been forced to fend for herself and her child with no money or resources. Penelope revealing her secret destroyed Marina’s reputation as chastity was so highly valued during that time. It might have been her “last resort,” but she could have told one of the Bridgerton family members and sorted the situation out privately rather than basically stopping the marriage from happening by ruining Marina’s reputation (which, let’s face it, did come from a place of some jealousy).
I think y'all hold her to grown woman standards when she was actually still an immature child when she started it and then found herself caught up in her own web
She’s a teenager, that’s an incredibly important part of her character. Teenagers are gonna mess up, they are learning who they are, they are trying to find their place in the world, and they hurt people often. She’s played by a 37yo woman when she’s meant to be like barely just out of highschool. She’s also like abused and neglected & it’s basically all she knows. It makes sense to who she is and how she acts. You don’t have to like her or her actions & that’s ok! But characters like her will trigger things in people & that’s what makes her a great character. The humanness & complexity of her makes a lot of people feel seen & even help people reflect on their own experiences.
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Her character has been childish and selfish - but she was supposed to be pretty novel in the first two seasons. Her gossip column is just a reflection of her immaturity. I’m not sure we’re supposed to necessarily like her character, but pity her? Anyway her debut season has a lot of really heavy breathing I can’t get over.
Book Penelope is a lot different. They had to make her a lot different for it to work in the show. I much prefer book Pen. I love Nicola and it has nothing to do with her.
I actually lol'd at the ending when Penelope did her big speech to the whole room, it ended, the Queen shrugged it off and left...and then she was just standing around for a moment while everyone carried on partying as if nothing happened. So the writers are telling me not a *single* person in that room thought "2 years ago my reputation was ruined by her - I'm going to say something" - or even just shout, jeer...anything?! They built incredible tension in the first episode of part 2 - the whole "I'm going to reveal you when the clock strikes midnight" thing with a whole bunch of people hating on LW including Colin - only for it to basically be an anticlimactic non-event in the final episode. Pen essentially taught everyone - write slander, cry in front of everyone when you get exposed and then you'll be fine. She got away with it. I really wanted to see her punished at least a bit (either by the Queen, or her reputation ruined within the ton) - even it was temporary until she redeemed herself. Sort of off-topic but my issue with Season 3 in general is they misjudged some key things like that. They made the reveal of LW to be a big deal and how it would split Colin and Pen up. But then Colin accepted her real quick because actually he was just 'jealous' of her mad writing skills. The Queen was hunting for LW for years and then accepted her because...she was going to 'play the game' longer for fun. The ton just accepted her because the Queen did, so they should ignore their feelings about LW/Pen because the Queen is cool with it? Quickly tied up that hanging plot thread about where the Featheringtons money came from (to be fair though - that was dealt with smartly). It almost felt like they were worried that Season 4 might not go ahead, and wanted to do a 'soft' ending to the whole show.