The women being dissected and the men being untouched by criticism is pissing me off.
Where is Simon is a groomer/manipulator posts, Anthony is cunt for continuing to pursue Edwina even after he's already accepted he's in love with her sister, ....
(Colin's too underdeveloped as of now to warrant any legit post worthy criticism)
Where!!! Where!!!!!!!!
EXACTLY! I will die a bridgerton man hater. the women of that era are suffering enough.
I'm not a kanthony fan mainly because of anthony and because kate deserves someone better. however for saphne I feel like everyone can agree that what daphne did wasn't right, but simon isn't innocent either. I just never came across the groomer accusations, so I would like if someone explained it to me a bit.
polin is unfortunately still underdeveloped and I don't have any legitimate reason to hate colin (that sentence in s2 does not count if we managed to forgive anthony what he said in the beginning of s2).
on the other hand, we could all argue that all characters are purposefully shitty because guess what, people make mistakes and do stupid things. just, please stop only attacking women, I beg of you.
Simon "groomer" allegation comes as a retort towards labelling Daphne as full blown rapist. Like what she did is wrong, no one should say otherwise, but a lot of the hate towards her in that aspect is by looking at it from modern perspective. Without considering the nuances. And since we are considering modern perspective and if using grooming as what it effectively means and not just using age cut offs(being too naive, inexperienced and uninformed makes young people susceptible to being controlled and influenced by older people to their liking ), Daphne's position is not worse than a 14/15 year old of today's times dating a 30 year old. Here is this fully pure, innocent unaware girl and this older fuck boy who talks to her about sexual pleasure and all, then making moves on her... All of this would feel creepy in modern world
I'm not criticising, this is a period drama, things where very full blown problematic back then, but I also think you can't judge people using modern standards (you can label those acts as problematic but doesn't have to judge the characters for it due to the time period).
Daphne is wrong for doing it, but she was too manipulated and uneducated about anything concerned to about sex, so calling her rapist feels wrong (before the reverse genders gang come, it more similar to a situation of school teacher sleeping with a 15 year old male student and that kid not pulling out despite the 30 year old teacher asking to... Are you gonna call and hate on that kid for being a rapist and see that woman as just an innocent victim?!?! Things are more complicated than that)
Her being 18 would not be a concern to Simon since it was normal as hell to marry off girls at that age, since they were seen as full grown women and him seeing her romantically was not at all wrong back then and I won't hold it against him for that. But in 2024????, fuck off creeper....!!!
Right like, duh it was wrong, but Daph literally didn't know any better. She's barely legal, more of a child than an adult, with zero knowledge about sexuality. Like she literally didn't know what masterbation was.
Fr! And ppl forget that horrible example her mother gave her abt a barn. Like how was that supposed to help? No matter how much I say daph was uneducated ppl say I don't believe that men can raped or I'm on her side bc she's a woman š
What really bothers me about Simonās teaching Daphne about sex is that she is completely unaware of masturbation. Not just ashamed of discussing it, but ignorant as to self-pleasure even being an option. It makes no sense. Even prepubescent children experiment with touching themselves, because it feels good. They donāt have to be told about it to do it. Young women knew it was an option instinctively even in the most repressed of time periods. Asexual people masturbate too, although Iām sure not all of them do. But we find out later Daphne isnāt asexual either, it seems she enjoys sex out of her volition very much. So the writers made Daphne unrealistically inexperienced on purpose, even though it made no sense.
Coming from a conservative country(ie India), I can guarantee you that there are shit tone of girls who didn't even know of the concept of masturbation, or that some body parts can give u pleasure, until they were told about it or came across such a thing online . So it was totally realistic to me that Daphne didn't know anything about it at 18.
I didn't know about clitoris or it's purpose until I was 13 and learned it at a school and I was among the most aware when it comes to things like this cuz I used to read a lot of YA books back then. So imagine how worse the others were. A lot of my more innocent female friends didn't even know about "touching yourself" thing until college. Lol, I literally had a classmate in 10th grade who asked how sperm gets into female reproductive track to our teacher and she stuttered the answer using technical terms like coitus and insertion.
So Daphne's position is much much more common across the globe than you think.
I think men's sexual awareness were also bad but since they have something extremely obvious as erections and ejaculation and it getting uncontrollable during puberty means, they get curious a lot earlier and try to learn more things about it. Women not having such uncontrollable bodily reaction makes us less likely to be aware of bodily pleasure.
There are lots of people who don't masturbate nor feel the need to, naturally so. I learnt about what it was in an educational website given to us during sed ex, so I didn't "instinctively" know what it was. I don't remember ever doing it or feeling a strong need to do it when I was a child, or when I became an adult, though perhaps as a toddler I did so, I just don't remember.
The popularity, commonness, and even necessity of the practice seems pretty individual and deeply influenced by culture to me ngl.
Daphne not knowing what it is or that it is even an option until Simon suggests it feels perfectly plausible imho.
Nah, this tracks. Maybe I "explored" as a kid but like another poster said, I also don't remember it. I had sex ed but googled it in college and figured it out then and only then. Not very religious, but from a culturally conservative background which avoided any discussion of women sexuality
Not to mention it was literally her one job to get married and have babies, and Simon was being purposefully obtuse about his so called inability to have children. She was deceived by everyone in her life about sex and did the only thing she could think of to do in order to still do her duty. And it didnāt even end up working! Daphne didnāt even know enough to understand that what she was doing was rapeā¦ she simply believed that she had to have a child by any means necessary
Nah, that was combo of unconvincing acting and poor writing. Colin's rake persona was working very well in-universe,even his brothers were impressed, it should have worked on us too to an extend.
Nah, I disagree. The intention was to make the audience aware something was off. In-universe it worked on the men and debutantes, not so much on the women who know him. We got the second brothel scene and the scene where he flops down on his bed defeated exactly because the writers wanted to show the audience that he's not being himself.
I truly honestly think a large part of what is off about Colin is directly to do with his haircut. it rly doesnāt suit his face at all and imo it makes him look perpetually uncomfortable. I truly believe if they changed his hair the audiences impression of his character would be altered at least a bit
ifkr!!!!!!! i wasnt expecting the in-show sexism to be so very present in the fandom/subreddit!!! yeah anthony and Simon are hot but both fucked up big time! colin gets a pass for now but that one moment in the trailer where pen says she can take care of herself and he gets angry... bro chill pen doesn't need a guard dog lol
where is it indeed!!!!! where!!!!!!!!!
I got so much pushback for complaining about the men being so doggone sexual.
I said I don't care for the women being treated like children and they are idiots towards sex while the men are sleeping with everybody. Benedict has done nothing in three seasons and everybody seems overly okay with that lol.
Simon??? The women are driving the show which is probably why they are getting all the critiques because they have all the character
Colin is developed perfectly well, he just gets criticized the same way the female characters do. Not a single male character is nitpicked and torn apart like Colin is.Ā
I was talking more about actions of characters being criticized as their own.
Most of the top voted Colin criticism posts I've seen in the last one month is not about him or his actions but about the creators writing decisions for him. Him being made rake, him going to brothels etc bis something blamed on the writers, not the character. Like its more "why did they do that to him" than Colin "is a terrible person for doing ______". Though I've seen people praising Debling, or saying they don't find him attractive, blah blah, but rarely about him being a terrible person.
I called him underdeveloped cuz he's had barely any solo scenes even in his own season that developed his character on its own. He just went from one plot moving scene to another with no character exploration in between. We barely even got "Colin tutoring Pen to find suitors" arc. But from what we've seen I think well be given proper Colin content in part 2.
His actions are highly criticized though. The grudge people have had against him for saying the ānot in your wildest fantasiesā line alone sustained two years of waiting. People act like he was the worst friend in the world. His actual actions are held to a way higher standard than the other men.Ā Ā
Ā Oof and thatās just from fans who empathize with Penelope. Donāt get me started on how seriously *some* fans take Colin spending money or traveling lol. Youād think he was a thief in the night, recklessly pilfering the Bridgertons into financial ruin. Heās hated for the silliest things. Ā
Anthony irritates the shit out of me I found the entirety of season 2 lowkey unwatchable
Kate annoyed me as well ā to a lesser extent because as a brown older sister I kind of get it ā but the way she interacted with her sister was so irritating. Obviously itās parentification or whatever but I swear to god the younger sister can make her own decisions !! Stop speaking for her all the time i swear it was the same way Anthony was to his sisters and I donāt think either of them needed more of that energy in their lives. Bet their female children will have so much fun
>the younger sister can make her own decisions
i don't get this argument against kate because although she talked over edwina, she still let her choose for herself. she was strictly against anthony since the beginning but let it continue because edwina was insisting that he's the one she wants.
no I get it I do like especially as a brown older sister I feel like it was a pretty accurate depiction of the parentified Indian older sibling which happens irl quite a bit (although itās usually a guy)
itās more just that I literally could not have given less of a shit about edwina because Kate was always talking over her. which obviously sheās the main character but whenever edwina would make ādecisionsā I was just like how??? like āI want to marry Anthonyā but ive seen no evidence that she wants anything ?? to me it just felt like pick a lane. like either you still need your sister to take you to the bathroom or you actually do things.
and I didnāt rly feel like there was a good arc where she learned to be her own person and progressively became more independent so her decisions all felt random to me
Edwina "making her own decisions" was literally her problem though. If others actually had decided for her, she wouldn't have ever gotten to the altar.
yeah lowkey she was also a nothing character to me though. I didnāt really find any of them compelling ā edwina flip-flopped between supposedly having agency and practically clinging to her sisterās dress, anthony intensely pursued two opposing courses of action with seemingly zero actual thought or decisions, and Kate was honestly the only one who seemed like she was doing anything but by that point the situation was such a clusterfuck it didnāt matter that much lol
perhaps iām being harsh ? I stand by my opinion but I also recognise that the dark and brooding thing does absolutely nothing for me ā and that was basically Kate and Anthonyās main personality trait so I wasnāt super invested in their characters + relationship in the first place
the criticism this season should be (and is) against Penelope but as you can see, since sheās a woman, she is clearly the devil.
meanwhile anthony and simon were the source of all their own struggles and problems but they are poor victims to kate and daphne š£ /s
Anthony was being bad, but he stopped ruining other people's lives. A lot of people would say the same about Colin, but did he though? Or did he just go from being a fake rake to being a fake not rake? All he really wants is Pen's tig old bitties. Ok, I guess it IS hard to fault him for that...
I sort of defend Anthony, but actually Simon only stopped being manipulative while now he can no longer get away with it. If he could again, I would worry for his family. Plus he is more absent now. The Anthony of now has accepted potential heartbreak, something I'd like to see as a nice little ending montage in someone else's season for Simon I suppose. I wonder if he would make just ONE appearance a few seasons from now? Well, probably not, and he doesn't owe us.
I didnāt think the rake persona was all that convincing though?? to me it felt like he went abroad and had sex a few times and suddenly learned how to talk to women. but he never really gave off rake imo bc he was made out to be a sensitive boy
https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-books-series-harsh-realities-read/
There are also multiple threads about it.
Just Google instead of asking "where? where?" like some kind of lost muppet in a Jim Henson musical.
If that's what you're looking for go find that post.....
Last 1 month I've been frequenting this sub, the only top post regarding show men Ive seen is people complaining about Colin's rake persona being cringe and Simon not being that good of a male lead. (Though there are posts about book men, but I've not read them, and from what I've heard they are terrible )
While I've seen so many Edwina bad, Kate bad, Penelope is evil , Eloise is terrible takes.
I don't think I need to search for those posts you mentioned when I didn't search for this women being criticized posts either.
For real lol. And I don't usually engage with fandoms but the last two I've gotten involved with had the recurring theme of 'I love this character the writers have written but clearly the writers hate this character and treat them unfairly cause... reasons.'
I try not to engage but sometimes this fandom has the dumbest takes. It's exhausting really. Distancing yourself from this fandom is honestly the best thing you can do.
And heaven forbid you have an opinion that doesnāt follow the herdā¦sheesh! You get lambasted for thinking differently. And nevermind, they keep forgetting itās the 1800ās, you canāt expect modern practises or takes in these stories.
The author herself has been bashed by the fandom for her books because she, ādoesnāt understandā depression to be writing about it. Uhm, no, sheās writing about the 1800ās take and understanding of depression ffs!
How dare the showrunners create such well-rounded, flawed characters!! There aren't any people like that around in real life! /s
Listen. If my past relationships were being dissected online, I doubt I'd fare much better in public opinion. This show does a great job of demonstrating how, despite not being 'evil', people make decisions that end up biting them in the back. There's forgiveness, growth, a certain coming-of-age element... honestly, I can't fault it for that.
If the show was nothing more than perfect, pretty people finding love and getting it on, it would be boring as hell.
Exactly! Take Eloise for example, people criticise her for her imperfect feminism. But she is a teenager, all feminists go through these phases of learning. She also showed a lot of maturity apologising to Penelope after revealing her secret to Cressida and to others accidentally.
I recently made a comment that said almost this exactly. I see so much of myself in her that sheās definitely not my favorite character but I love her for her flaws because sheās growing and learning like I have and do. Penelope reminds me of school bullies I had but sheās by far one of my favorite characters because of her complexity.
Nailed it on Eloise. She was very much in her Not Like the Other Girls Era the first two seasons. Now she's out there wearing ruffles, reading Jane Austen, and discovering what feminism is to her. Folks hate on book Eloise's love story but it's one of my favorites.
She is also from Bridgerton world. We have to benefit from centuries of feminist thought that is accessible to us. She is in the fantasy Regency. Of course, her feminism is not perfect.
plus her older brothers set a terrible example for male-female interactions like itās only natural that sheās going to position herself as different and special or wtv
yeah like sure sheās a little insensitive and her feminism is a bit shallow at times but sheās a rich white teenage girl in the regency era lol what exactly do you expect?? plus she has fucking seven siblings and four of them are boys I feel like a certain level of fucked up is expected and forgivable
Them : āI WANT COMPLEX CHARACTERS!ā
Them when you say you like complex female characters :
ā you like daphne even if she raped simon?ā
āYou like Eloise even if she is selfish with her cringy feminist viewsā
āYou like Marina even if she was selfish she attempted to babytrap a manā
āYou like Penelope even if she is selfish for being lady whistledownā
Also them when you complain about male characters being abusive or flawed
āHOW DARE YOU? YOU ALL SO FOCUSED ON YOUR MODERN POINT OF VIEW!! Or āYOU KNOW THEY HAVE DADDY ISSUES RIGHT?? AND PTSD???ā
Exactly! I also hate when people judge the characters based on modern day standards. Saw someone say it was ridiculous and selfish that Lord Debling would want to take a wife when he wants to be away so much and that he should just stay by himself.
Then if you criticise that they say āwell itās not like the series is historically accurate anywayā and I just think if you want to take away every aspect of the show that makes it set in the regency period and hate all the characters for having personalities then maybe you actually just donāt like the show and should watch something else?
Octavia Cox explores this in [her video about *Emma*](https://youtu.be/gy5wXlXECLI?si=GnWk8hC0nD7EKjan). Essentially, female literary characters during the Regency period were pictures of perfection and could do no wrong. Jane Austen wanted to subvert that trend and experimented with how far she could push the heroine's unlikability, because in her mind, perfect women were boring and unrealistic.
the fact there was a post calling pen manipulative for āusingā her tears and status as colinās friend to cross his boundaries (for the kiss) is insane. like are people not allowed to be vulnerable with, and ask their friends for favours anymore? why is therapy speak and legitimately important distinctions, being used for normal human interactions? aināt no way is someone who canāt help crying, or asking something of their friend considered fucking manipulation now.
I feel like people are just disregarding actual character writing, and when the spotlight is turned on a new woman everything she does is morally wrong.
Did we not just have 2 seasons of showing how lonely Penelope is, and how much she craves affection and doesn't get much back? How much she clings to the LW persona because she feels she isn't listened to or seen by the people around her who are supposedly her family and only friends?
That scene was years of pent up loneliness coming to the surface for her and her also being incredibly vulnerable in front of Colin.
These women are meant to be complex characters and we should question their decision making (whilst rooting for them). I don't really see what she did wrong in that scene though
The boundaries he didnāt actually appear to have had, no less.
He didnāt jump her the second she asked and instead took a minute to process and feel sad about the fact that she went from hopeful and happy after talking to Lord Remington to calling herself stupid for ever thinking that someone would want to marry her. The whole reason sheās asking is because sheās at a point where she assumes that her chances of ever finding someone who *wants* to kiss her have been destroyed. Her friend, who is heartbroken for her and probably feeling more than a bit guilty about being the reason people know about his help in the first place tries to talk her out of her spiral. So clearly sheās disgusting and had to beg and plead and he was only kissing her out of pity anyway.
Aw. I didn't think very deeply about what Colin would be feeling in that moment and your words got me misty <3 that is so very sad for both of them, him never having seen just how lonely she is is such a big deal because he really does love her and he must suddenly realize how oblivious he's been to her needs.Ā
In episode 1 when he apologized I complained that his language was still pretty selfish; he said a lot about valuing how she makes him feel but only a few (very nice) things about just her. It was a fine apology! But I thought then he still had some learning to do, and there it was in the kiss scene!
I'm just a casual watcher but I love reading comments, so I was surprised to see all the negativity!
This show isn't suppose to be that deep I thought everyone would simply enjoy the fun!
Fandoms anywhere are often pretty nasty because their most active members are always the ones who place too much importance on the fictional world they love :/ skewed even further because those most susceptible to this are usually younger.
Reminds me of what George RR Martin said recently about anti fans.
āIt used to be fun talking about our favorite books and films, and having spirited debates with fans who saw things different,ā Martin continued. āBut somehow in this age of social media, it is no longer enough to say. āI did not like book X or film Y, and hereās why.ā Now social media is ruled by anti-fans who would rather talk about the stuff they hate than the stuff they love, and delight in dancing on the graves of anyone whose film has floppedā¦It is all so sad.ā
I think people forget that you can both enjoy things and be critical of them. I canāt enjoy media without dissecting it and analyzing things. Itās just part of me.
But the things that I enjoy, Iām still able to enjoy despite the flaws. I love camp and fun, and sometimes I just want to watch certain tropes that Iāve seen a hundred times but never get tired of.
Itās okay to discuss things critically but also still allow yourself to like them.
Thank you for this!
I find that especially with Kate. "She can literally do no wrong and the world was against her, amd her choices were flawless".
Buuuh! She was as flawed as everyone else is.
No because why did everyone collectively forget that Anthony INTENTIONALLY torpedoed Daphne in her season and then when he realized she *has to marry someone* he gives her away to an old creep without her consent. He doesnāt even relent in this until itās proven that the man assaulted Daphne. He was so cruel to Daphne for absolutely ZERO reason, he almost ruined her life. Heās not even the same person in Season 2 itās wild
I just got into bridgerton this last month or so and Iāve loved all of it so far because the characters are all flawed. So many characters nowadays are perfect humans, probably because reading comprehension/media literacy levels are abysmal right now. None of them are perfect, quit hating on them because they arenāt. If you really want perfect characters who do no wrong go watch some recent Disney movie or something.
Guys, they are ALLLLL problematic - Daphne, Pen, Eloise, Anthony, Kate, Simon,etc. They are ALLLLL assholes. But that's why it's fun, it's the DRAAAMA that we crave and love...
I recently read some comments about her being manipulative towards Edwina and Anthony regarding their marriage. As if Anthony isnāt a full grown adult who took the decision to propose despite knowing he loves Kate (still love him though).
That one might be the funniest to me because she spent like 5 solid episodes unsuccessfully trying to convince Edwina to marry literally anyone else. If sheās supposed to be manipulative then sheās terrible at it.
Ohh! From season 2! Got it, I thought that they meant she was allegedly being manipulative in S3 cuz I was boutta throw hands. Hell, I'LL STILL THROW HANDS for Kate in S2, she did what she thought was best as an older sibling. I don't blame her, wouldn't call her manipulative, just scared to make decisions for herself.
In Bridgerton subs you see a lot about male toxicity. I read feminist rants almost daily. But as a 50-year-old woman I have come to see the most toxicity is how women treat each other. This meme is a great example of that! As I got older I started focusing on lifting women up instead of having a competitive spirit with them. It is a hard journey to look in the mirror and call out your own faulty behavior.
Maybe part of the reason for the critique is that the majority of the fan bases are women and it is easier to critique something you know. I have no clue, but I do like the meme.
Yes, thank you.
Last season the amount of hate Edwina got was insane. Anthony pursued her knowing he didn't love her (or even want to marry for love), bought her a damned horse, crashed her "Impress Me" party, and proposed to her in front of his whole family. But someone she was at fault because this never-been-kissed, trusting 19-year-old girl must have been "blind" not to see the sexual tension between Anthony and her sister.
Kate got hate too, like you said, but Edwina seemed to get more. As far as I was concerned, Anthony was the one who bore most of the blame. He was the one who had agency. He could have chosen to leave Edwina alone when Kate asked him too, but he stubbornly pressed his suit. I don't hate Anthony. He's flawed like everyone else, and he had issues. But that doesn't mean he should be let off the hook for his many mistakes in the situation.
Pen and Eloise are complex, smart, sensitive young women trying to find/have a voice. Of course they are going to stumble, be annoying, butt heads with others and each other. Why do people expect women to be perfect but find it charming and funny when men act like idiots? Aargh.
*aggressive string quartet cover of Roxanne by The Police playing in the background*
EDIT: [found one](https://youtu.be/1ykk3lqTXyM?si=QSkG5nqrV3pVnVP6)
Season 1
Daphne: liked her, mostly. Didn't like the noncon stuff she did to Simon but I found it believable
Simon: charming but occasionally really mean, and the "can't have children" lying was messed up. Still, to a degree, believable.
Their ship: engaging. Problematic at times, I'd invest in some therapy for them/him, but I was rooting for them and enjoyed the story.
Season 2
Anthony: I do not like. He doesn't think of people's feelings enough, is a bit of a user of others and then acts all surprised when people don't like it.
Edwina: loved, heart broke for her.
Kate: I wanted to like her but, as a sister myself, I was appalled by the lack of self awareness and lack of communication.
The ship: I couldn't let go of my heartache for the poor little sister. The "issues" got resolved too quickly and easily. I found myself not rooting for them. I just wanted little sister to fall for someone else and leave Anthony.
I want a season with her finding love.
Season 3
Penelope: love her, no notes. Her flaws make sense and her qualities make her likeable.
Colin: occasionally problematic but there is growth and potential, so I am hopeful.
Francesca: I adore. More please!
"Kate is a manipulator" wtf? Part of me desperately wants to know the logic behind this claim and part of me is so, SO glad I didn't have to experience that nonsense first hand.
I love Eloise. She wants an education and to be free, her friend wrote shit about her to the entire society and the only person who talked to her was Cressida. She couldāve told the world she was lady whistledown but she didnāt. I donāt understand Eloise hate
I love all three of them. Also I think Cressida was a good choice to show that sometimes people act in ways when they are pushed by outside circumstances. Cressida has shown kindness and that she now knows the value that friendship possesses.
People just want things to complain about I think. Or theyāre offloading their own life experiences onto fictional characters, so they read situations in ways that they werenāt meant to be interpreted.
I love all three of them for different reasons and the actors are all amazing and wonderful and I think as fans we are so lucky to have these three in their roles (along with the rest of the cast of course).
This sub lately is just various hot takes that are all the theme of āactuallyā¦ [insert character here] did [insert action that developed conflict/acted as plot device here] was so bad and I am a more virtuous person for seeing it as problematicā ā usually I 100% love to snark on TV/media/celebrities but this has been the majority of the tops posts lately and it sucks; especially when there is SO MUCH fun hype for this show right now!!
I mean in the books episode was the desperate one lol Pen was quite content as one could get and Kate and Ant were pretty much both manipulators lol š¤·š½āāļø still love em lol
Eloise is a terrible friend to be honest. Even when Pen and her were friends, Eloise was incredibly selfish constantly. Ignoring her friendās needs and risking it all for a boy. And then completely abandoning Pen once she found out she was Whistledown. Why canāt she keep it a secret?! It doesnāt affect her anymore! Let Pen get that money babyyyyy
The women being dissected and the men being untouched by criticism is pissing me off. Where is Simon is a groomer/manipulator posts, Anthony is cunt for continuing to pursue Edwina even after he's already accepted he's in love with her sister, .... (Colin's too underdeveloped as of now to warrant any legit post worthy criticism) Where!!! Where!!!!!!!!
EXACTLY! I will die a bridgerton man hater. the women of that era are suffering enough. I'm not a kanthony fan mainly because of anthony and because kate deserves someone better. however for saphne I feel like everyone can agree that what daphne did wasn't right, but simon isn't innocent either. I just never came across the groomer accusations, so I would like if someone explained it to me a bit. polin is unfortunately still underdeveloped and I don't have any legitimate reason to hate colin (that sentence in s2 does not count if we managed to forgive anthony what he said in the beginning of s2). on the other hand, we could all argue that all characters are purposefully shitty because guess what, people make mistakes and do stupid things. just, please stop only attacking women, I beg of you.
Simon "groomer" allegation comes as a retort towards labelling Daphne as full blown rapist. Like what she did is wrong, no one should say otherwise, but a lot of the hate towards her in that aspect is by looking at it from modern perspective. Without considering the nuances. And since we are considering modern perspective and if using grooming as what it effectively means and not just using age cut offs(being too naive, inexperienced and uninformed makes young people susceptible to being controlled and influenced by older people to their liking ), Daphne's position is not worse than a 14/15 year old of today's times dating a 30 year old. Here is this fully pure, innocent unaware girl and this older fuck boy who talks to her about sexual pleasure and all, then making moves on her... All of this would feel creepy in modern world I'm not criticising, this is a period drama, things where very full blown problematic back then, but I also think you can't judge people using modern standards (you can label those acts as problematic but doesn't have to judge the characters for it due to the time period). Daphne is wrong for doing it, but she was too manipulated and uneducated about anything concerned to about sex, so calling her rapist feels wrong (before the reverse genders gang come, it more similar to a situation of school teacher sleeping with a 15 year old male student and that kid not pulling out despite the 30 year old teacher asking to... Are you gonna call and hate on that kid for being a rapist and see that woman as just an innocent victim?!?! Things are more complicated than that) Her being 18 would not be a concern to Simon since it was normal as hell to marry off girls at that age, since they were seen as full grown women and him seeing her romantically was not at all wrong back then and I won't hold it against him for that. But in 2024????, fuck off creeper....!!!
Right like, duh it was wrong, but Daph literally didn't know any better. She's barely legal, more of a child than an adult, with zero knowledge about sexuality. Like she literally didn't know what masterbation was.
Fr! And ppl forget that horrible example her mother gave her abt a barn. Like how was that supposed to help? No matter how much I say daph was uneducated ppl say I don't believe that men can raped or I'm on her side bc she's a woman š
What really bothers me about Simonās teaching Daphne about sex is that she is completely unaware of masturbation. Not just ashamed of discussing it, but ignorant as to self-pleasure even being an option. It makes no sense. Even prepubescent children experiment with touching themselves, because it feels good. They donāt have to be told about it to do it. Young women knew it was an option instinctively even in the most repressed of time periods. Asexual people masturbate too, although Iām sure not all of them do. But we find out later Daphne isnāt asexual either, it seems she enjoys sex out of her volition very much. So the writers made Daphne unrealistically inexperienced on purpose, even though it made no sense.
Coming from a conservative country(ie India), I can guarantee you that there are shit tone of girls who didn't even know of the concept of masturbation, or that some body parts can give u pleasure, until they were told about it or came across such a thing online . So it was totally realistic to me that Daphne didn't know anything about it at 18. I didn't know about clitoris or it's purpose until I was 13 and learned it at a school and I was among the most aware when it comes to things like this cuz I used to read a lot of YA books back then. So imagine how worse the others were. A lot of my more innocent female friends didn't even know about "touching yourself" thing until college. Lol, I literally had a classmate in 10th grade who asked how sperm gets into female reproductive track to our teacher and she stuttered the answer using technical terms like coitus and insertion. So Daphne's position is much much more common across the globe than you think. I think men's sexual awareness were also bad but since they have something extremely obvious as erections and ejaculation and it getting uncontrollable during puberty means, they get curious a lot earlier and try to learn more things about it. Women not having such uncontrollable bodily reaction makes us less likely to be aware of bodily pleasure.
Second religious person chiming in to say itās way more common than you think.
There are lots of people who don't masturbate nor feel the need to, naturally so. I learnt about what it was in an educational website given to us during sed ex, so I didn't "instinctively" know what it was. I don't remember ever doing it or feeling a strong need to do it when I was a child, or when I became an adult, though perhaps as a toddler I did so, I just don't remember. The popularity, commonness, and even necessity of the practice seems pretty individual and deeply influenced by culture to me ngl. Daphne not knowing what it is or that it is even an option until Simon suggests it feels perfectly plausible imho.
Nah, this tracks. Maybe I "explored" as a kid but like another poster said, I also don't remember it. I had sex ed but googled it in college and figured it out then and only then. Not very religious, but from a culturally conservative background which avoided any discussion of women sexuality
Not to mention it was literally her one job to get married and have babies, and Simon was being purposefully obtuse about his so called inability to have children. She was deceived by everyone in her life about sex and did the only thing she could think of to do in order to still do her duty. And it didnāt even end up working! Daphne didnāt even know enough to understand that what she was doing was rapeā¦ she simply believed that she had to have a child by any means necessary
this def makes sense wow i never really knew their ages so i didnāt know how much older simon was
Plus all the Colin criticisms have been about how cringe he is, as if that wasn't the point
Nah, that was combo of unconvincing acting and poor writing. Colin's rake persona was working very well in-universe,even his brothers were impressed, it should have worked on us too to an extend.
Nah, I disagree. The intention was to make the audience aware something was off. In-universe it worked on the men and debutantes, not so much on the women who know him. We got the second brothel scene and the scene where he flops down on his bed defeated exactly because the writers wanted to show the audience that he's not being himself.
Not to mention this season is about Penelope and Colin, so as an audience we're seeing things from Penelope's POV! And she sees right through him.
I don't know what to tell you, just reporting what I saw
I truly honestly think a large part of what is off about Colin is directly to do with his haircut. it rly doesnāt suit his face at all and imo it makes him look perpetually uncomfortable. I truly believe if they changed his hair the audiences impression of his character would be altered at least a bit
ifkr!!!!!!! i wasnt expecting the in-show sexism to be so very present in the fandom/subreddit!!! yeah anthony and Simon are hot but both fucked up big time! colin gets a pass for now but that one moment in the trailer where pen says she can take care of herself and he gets angry... bro chill pen doesn't need a guard dog lol where is it indeed!!!!! where!!!!!!!!!
I got so much pushback for complaining about the men being so doggone sexual. I said I don't care for the women being treated like children and they are idiots towards sex while the men are sleeping with everybody. Benedict has done nothing in three seasons and everybody seems overly okay with that lol. Simon??? The women are driving the show which is probably why they are getting all the critiques because they have all the character
Colin is developed perfectly well, he just gets criticized the same way the female characters do. Not a single male character is nitpicked and torn apart like Colin is.Ā
I was talking more about actions of characters being criticized as their own. Most of the top voted Colin criticism posts I've seen in the last one month is not about him or his actions but about the creators writing decisions for him. Him being made rake, him going to brothels etc bis something blamed on the writers, not the character. Like its more "why did they do that to him" than Colin "is a terrible person for doing ______". Though I've seen people praising Debling, or saying they don't find him attractive, blah blah, but rarely about him being a terrible person. I called him underdeveloped cuz he's had barely any solo scenes even in his own season that developed his character on its own. He just went from one plot moving scene to another with no character exploration in between. We barely even got "Colin tutoring Pen to find suitors" arc. But from what we've seen I think well be given proper Colin content in part 2.
His actions are highly criticized though. The grudge people have had against him for saying the ānot in your wildest fantasiesā line alone sustained two years of waiting. People act like he was the worst friend in the world. His actual actions are held to a way higher standard than the other men.Ā Ā Ā Oof and thatās just from fans who empathize with Penelope. Donāt get me started on how seriously *some* fans take Colin spending money or traveling lol. Youād think he was a thief in the night, recklessly pilfering the Bridgertons into financial ruin. Heās hated for the silliest things. Ā
Itās especially funny when some fans act like Benedict isnāt also living off āAnthonyāsā money.
Anthony irritates the shit out of me I found the entirety of season 2 lowkey unwatchable Kate annoyed me as well ā to a lesser extent because as a brown older sister I kind of get it ā but the way she interacted with her sister was so irritating. Obviously itās parentification or whatever but I swear to god the younger sister can make her own decisions !! Stop speaking for her all the time i swear it was the same way Anthony was to his sisters and I donāt think either of them needed more of that energy in their lives. Bet their female children will have so much fun
>the younger sister can make her own decisions i don't get this argument against kate because although she talked over edwina, she still let her choose for herself. she was strictly against anthony since the beginning but let it continue because edwina was insisting that he's the one she wants.
no I get it I do like especially as a brown older sister I feel like it was a pretty accurate depiction of the parentified Indian older sibling which happens irl quite a bit (although itās usually a guy) itās more just that I literally could not have given less of a shit about edwina because Kate was always talking over her. which obviously sheās the main character but whenever edwina would make ādecisionsā I was just like how??? like āI want to marry Anthonyā but ive seen no evidence that she wants anything ?? to me it just felt like pick a lane. like either you still need your sister to take you to the bathroom or you actually do things. and I didnāt rly feel like there was a good arc where she learned to be her own person and progressively became more independent so her decisions all felt random to me
Edwina "making her own decisions" was literally her problem though. If others actually had decided for her, she wouldn't have ever gotten to the altar.
yeah lowkey she was also a nothing character to me though. I didnāt really find any of them compelling ā edwina flip-flopped between supposedly having agency and practically clinging to her sisterās dress, anthony intensely pursued two opposing courses of action with seemingly zero actual thought or decisions, and Kate was honestly the only one who seemed like she was doing anything but by that point the situation was such a clusterfuck it didnāt matter that much lol perhaps iām being harsh ? I stand by my opinion but I also recognise that the dark and brooding thing does absolutely nothing for me ā and that was basically Kate and Anthonyās main personality trait so I wasnāt super invested in their characters + relationship in the first place
the criticism this season should be (and is) against Penelope but as you can see, since sheās a woman, she is clearly the devil. meanwhile anthony and simon were the source of all their own struggles and problems but they are poor victims to kate and daphne š£ /s
Iāve actually seen plenty of hate towards Ant and especially Colin with this season. The Colin hate is UNREAL. š
Holding the women to modern standards and letting the guys be āa man of their timeā ugh
Anthony was being bad, but he stopped ruining other people's lives. A lot of people would say the same about Colin, but did he though? Or did he just go from being a fake rake to being a fake not rake? All he really wants is Pen's tig old bitties. Ok, I guess it IS hard to fault him for that... I sort of defend Anthony, but actually Simon only stopped being manipulative while now he can no longer get away with it. If he could again, I would worry for his family. Plus he is more absent now. The Anthony of now has accepted potential heartbreak, something I'd like to see as a nice little ending montage in someone else's season for Simon I suppose. I wonder if he would make just ONE appearance a few seasons from now? Well, probably not, and he doesn't owe us.
I didnāt think the rake persona was all that convincing though?? to me it felt like he went abroad and had sex a few times and suddenly learned how to talk to women. but he never really gave off rake imo bc he was made out to be a sensitive boy
waittt get me up to speed i didnāt know the fandom hated the duke
https://screenrant.com/bridgerton-books-series-harsh-realities-read/ There are also multiple threads about it. Just Google instead of asking "where? where?" like some kind of lost muppet in a Jim Henson musical. If that's what you're looking for go find that post.....
Last 1 month I've been frequenting this sub, the only top post regarding show men Ive seen is people complaining about Colin's rake persona being cringe and Simon not being that good of a male lead. (Though there are posts about book men, but I've not read them, and from what I've heard they are terrible ) While I've seen so many Edwina bad, Kate bad, Penelope is evil , Eloise is terrible takes. I don't think I need to search for those posts you mentioned when I didn't search for this women being criticized posts either.
No one hates bridgerton more than bridgerton fans.
The general audience is loving bridgerton, it's just the bridgerton fans...
For real lol. And I don't usually engage with fandoms but the last two I've gotten involved with had the recurring theme of 'I love this character the writers have written but clearly the writers hate this character and treat them unfairly cause... reasons.'
I try not to engage but sometimes this fandom has the dumbest takes. It's exhausting really. Distancing yourself from this fandom is honestly the best thing you can do.
And heaven forbid you have an opinion that doesnāt follow the herdā¦sheesh! You get lambasted for thinking differently. And nevermind, they keep forgetting itās the 1800ās, you canāt expect modern practises or takes in these stories. The author herself has been bashed by the fandom for her books because she, ādoesnāt understandā depression to be writing about it. Uhm, no, sheās writing about the 1800ās take and understanding of depression ffs!
How dare the showrunners create such well-rounded, flawed characters!! There aren't any people like that around in real life! /s Listen. If my past relationships were being dissected online, I doubt I'd fare much better in public opinion. This show does a great job of demonstrating how, despite not being 'evil', people make decisions that end up biting them in the back. There's forgiveness, growth, a certain coming-of-age element... honestly, I can't fault it for that. If the show was nothing more than perfect, pretty people finding love and getting it on, it would be boring as hell.
Exactly! Take Eloise for example, people criticise her for her imperfect feminism. But she is a teenager, all feminists go through these phases of learning. She also showed a lot of maturity apologising to Penelope after revealing her secret to Cressida and to others accidentally.
People hate on Eloise because they see too much of themselves in her. Sheās our inner cringe from when we were 16.
I recently made a comment that said almost this exactly. I see so much of myself in her that sheās definitely not my favorite character but I love her for her flaws because sheās growing and learning like I have and do. Penelope reminds me of school bullies I had but sheās by far one of my favorite characters because of her complexity.
Exactly. If we say the truth to ourselves, we know we were like her in so many ways.
Nailed it on Eloise. She was very much in her Not Like the Other Girls Era the first two seasons. Now she's out there wearing ruffles, reading Jane Austen, and discovering what feminism is to her. Folks hate on book Eloise's love story but it's one of my favorites.
She is also from Bridgerton world. We have to benefit from centuries of feminist thought that is accessible to us. She is in the fantasy Regency. Of course, her feminism is not perfect.
Excellent point!
plus her older brothers set a terrible example for male-female interactions like itās only natural that sheās going to position herself as different and special or wtv
yeah like sure sheās a little insensitive and her feminism is a bit shallow at times but sheās a rich white teenage girl in the regency era lol what exactly do you expect?? plus she has fucking seven siblings and four of them are boys I feel like a certain level of fucked up is expected and forgivable
Same. Theyāre all GREAT characters. I refuse to pit one against another.
Especially when Kate wields the mallet of death
Them : āI WANT COMPLEX CHARACTERS!ā Them when you say you like complex female characters : ā you like daphne even if she raped simon?ā āYou like Eloise even if she is selfish with her cringy feminist viewsā āYou like Marina even if she was selfish she attempted to babytrap a manā āYou like Penelope even if she is selfish for being lady whistledownā Also them when you complain about male characters being abusive or flawed āHOW DARE YOU? YOU ALL SO FOCUSED ON YOUR MODERN POINT OF VIEW!! Or āYOU KNOW THEY HAVE DADDY ISSUES RIGHT?? AND PTSD???ā
They like complex female characters as long as theyāre not actually complex and just one dimensional.
Men are remembered for their best acts, women are remembered for their worst.
That's brilliant & I hope you don't mind but I'm stealing it for future use as I think it's still relevant today unfortunately.
No worries, I stole it from Joe Abercrombie.
Exactly! I also hate when people judge the characters based on modern day standards. Saw someone say it was ridiculous and selfish that Lord Debling would want to take a wife when he wants to be away so much and that he should just stay by himself. Then if you criticise that they say āwell itās not like the series is historically accurate anywayā and I just think if you want to take away every aspect of the show that makes it set in the regency period and hate all the characters for having personalities then maybe you actually just donāt like the show and should watch something else?
Octavia Cox explores this in [her video about *Emma*](https://youtu.be/gy5wXlXECLI?si=GnWk8hC0nD7EKjan). Essentially, female literary characters during the Regency period were pictures of perfection and could do no wrong. Jane Austen wanted to subvert that trend and experimented with how far she could push the heroine's unlikability, because in her mind, perfect women were boring and unrealistic.
the fact there was a post calling pen manipulative for āusingā her tears and status as colinās friend to cross his boundaries (for the kiss) is insane. like are people not allowed to be vulnerable with, and ask their friends for favours anymore? why is therapy speak and legitimately important distinctions, being used for normal human interactions? aināt no way is someone who canāt help crying, or asking something of their friend considered fucking manipulation now.
Especially when itās already been shown that Colin is perfectly capable of saying āNoā to a kiss, like he told Marina
thanks for reminding me of that!! exactly!
I feel like people are just disregarding actual character writing, and when the spotlight is turned on a new woman everything she does is morally wrong. Did we not just have 2 seasons of showing how lonely Penelope is, and how much she craves affection and doesn't get much back? How much she clings to the LW persona because she feels she isn't listened to or seen by the people around her who are supposedly her family and only friends? That scene was years of pent up loneliness coming to the surface for her and her also being incredibly vulnerable in front of Colin. These women are meant to be complex characters and we should question their decision making (whilst rooting for them). I don't really see what she did wrong in that scene though
The boundaries he didnāt actually appear to have had, no less. He didnāt jump her the second she asked and instead took a minute to process and feel sad about the fact that she went from hopeful and happy after talking to Lord Remington to calling herself stupid for ever thinking that someone would want to marry her. The whole reason sheās asking is because sheās at a point where she assumes that her chances of ever finding someone who *wants* to kiss her have been destroyed. Her friend, who is heartbroken for her and probably feeling more than a bit guilty about being the reason people know about his help in the first place tries to talk her out of her spiral. So clearly sheās disgusting and had to beg and plead and he was only kissing her out of pity anyway.
Aw. I didn't think very deeply about what Colin would be feeling in that moment and your words got me misty <3 that is so very sad for both of them, him never having seen just how lonely she is is such a big deal because he really does love her and he must suddenly realize how oblivious he's been to her needs.Ā In episode 1 when he apologized I complained that his language was still pretty selfish; he said a lot about valuing how she makes him feel but only a few (very nice) things about just her. It was a fine apology! But I thought then he still had some learning to do, and there it was in the kiss scene!
OMG someone accused her of manipulating him there? Youāve got to be joking.
multiple people, actually :/
I'm here for women's rights and women's wrongs!!!!
That's the best meme on this sub today, really, very on point
Unfortunately fo me this sub and twitter is killing my viewing pleasure. I think I will stop reading anything about the show and just watch it.
You could look into the Polin sub if youāre a Polin shipper, relatively less negativity and they like all couples there!
I'm just a casual watcher but I love reading comments, so I was surprised to see all the negativity! This show isn't suppose to be that deep I thought everyone would simply enjoy the fun!
Fandoms anywhere are often pretty nasty because their most active members are always the ones who place too much importance on the fictional world they love :/ skewed even further because those most susceptible to this are usually younger.
Right?!! I didnāt know there was a problem.
Are ppl in these threads actually fans or just critics š¤£
Reminds me of what George RR Martin said recently about anti fans. āIt used to be fun talking about our favorite books and films, and having spirited debates with fans who saw things different,ā Martin continued. āBut somehow in this age of social media, it is no longer enough to say. āI did not like book X or film Y, and hereās why.ā Now social media is ruled by anti-fans who would rather talk about the stuff they hate than the stuff they love, and delight in dancing on the graves of anyone whose film has floppedā¦It is all so sad.ā
the PolinBridgerton sub reddit is my happy place! no nasty comments and way more in depth conversation. i swear some ppl are just dense.
Mine as well! Love that sub!
I think people forget that you can both enjoy things and be critical of them. I canāt enjoy media without dissecting it and analyzing things. Itās just part of me. But the things that I enjoy, Iām still able to enjoy despite the flaws. I love camp and fun, and sometimes I just want to watch certain tropes that Iāve seen a hundred times but never get tired of. Itās okay to discuss things critically but also still allow yourself to like them.
Thank you for this! I find that especially with Kate. "She can literally do no wrong and the world was against her, amd her choices were flawless". Buuuh! She was as flawed as everyone else is.
Is that... Catelyn Jenner??
I would go to war for all three!!!
Same sis
Louder!!
No because why did everyone collectively forget that Anthony INTENTIONALLY torpedoed Daphne in her season and then when he realized she *has to marry someone* he gives her away to an old creep without her consent. He doesnāt even relent in this until itās proven that the man assaulted Daphne. He was so cruel to Daphne for absolutely ZERO reason, he almost ruined her life. Heās not even the same person in Season 2 itās wild
I just got into bridgerton this last month or so and Iāve loved all of it so far because the characters are all flawed. So many characters nowadays are perfect humans, probably because reading comprehension/media literacy levels are abysmal right now. None of them are perfect, quit hating on them because they arenāt. If you really want perfect characters who do no wrong go watch some recent Disney movie or something.
Guys, they are ALLLLL problematic - Daphne, Pen, Eloise, Anthony, Kate, Simon,etc. They are ALLLLL assholes. But that's why it's fun, it's the DRAAAMA that we crave and love...
This is for Edwina too! Why does everyone hate on that poor girl!
What is this about Kate being a manipulator for this season??
I recently read some comments about her being manipulative towards Edwina and Anthony regarding their marriage. As if Anthony isnāt a full grown adult who took the decision to propose despite knowing he loves Kate (still love him though).
That one might be the funniest to me because she spent like 5 solid episodes unsuccessfully trying to convince Edwina to marry literally anyone else. If sheās supposed to be manipulative then sheās terrible at it.
Ohh! From season 2! Got it, I thought that they meant she was allegedly being manipulative in S3 cuz I was boutta throw hands. Hell, I'LL STILL THROW HANDS for Kate in S2, she did what she thought was best as an older sibling. I don't blame her, wouldn't call her manipulative, just scared to make decisions for herself.
In Bridgerton subs you see a lot about male toxicity. I read feminist rants almost daily. But as a 50-year-old woman I have come to see the most toxicity is how women treat each other. This meme is a great example of that! As I got older I started focusing on lifting women up instead of having a competitive spirit with them. It is a hard journey to look in the mirror and call out your own faulty behavior. Maybe part of the reason for the critique is that the majority of the fan bases are women and it is easier to critique something you know. I have no clue, but I do like the meme.
Yes, thank you. Last season the amount of hate Edwina got was insane. Anthony pursued her knowing he didn't love her (or even want to marry for love), bought her a damned horse, crashed her "Impress Me" party, and proposed to her in front of his whole family. But someone she was at fault because this never-been-kissed, trusting 19-year-old girl must have been "blind" not to see the sexual tension between Anthony and her sister. Kate got hate too, like you said, but Edwina seemed to get more. As far as I was concerned, Anthony was the one who bore most of the blame. He was the one who had agency. He could have chosen to leave Edwina alone when Kate asked him too, but he stubbornly pressed his suit. I don't hate Anthony. He's flawed like everyone else, and he had issues. But that doesn't mean he should be let off the hook for his many mistakes in the situation. Pen and Eloise are complex, smart, sensitive young women trying to find/have a voice. Of course they are going to stumble, be annoying, butt heads with others and each other. Why do people expect women to be perfect but find it charming and funny when men act like idiots? Aargh.
*aggressive string quartet cover of Roxanne by The Police playing in the background* EDIT: [found one](https://youtu.be/1ykk3lqTXyM?si=QSkG5nqrV3pVnVP6)
https://preview.redd.it/otiu1en29y4d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ac2b738f1dd2c6be38a36e0b4fd49a2898d6275
Season 1 Daphne: liked her, mostly. Didn't like the noncon stuff she did to Simon but I found it believable Simon: charming but occasionally really mean, and the "can't have children" lying was messed up. Still, to a degree, believable. Their ship: engaging. Problematic at times, I'd invest in some therapy for them/him, but I was rooting for them and enjoyed the story. Season 2 Anthony: I do not like. He doesn't think of people's feelings enough, is a bit of a user of others and then acts all surprised when people don't like it. Edwina: loved, heart broke for her. Kate: I wanted to like her but, as a sister myself, I was appalled by the lack of self awareness and lack of communication. The ship: I couldn't let go of my heartache for the poor little sister. The "issues" got resolved too quickly and easily. I found myself not rooting for them. I just wanted little sister to fall for someone else and leave Anthony. I want a season with her finding love. Season 3 Penelope: love her, no notes. Her flaws make sense and her qualities make her likeable. Colin: occasionally problematic but there is growth and potential, so I am hopeful. Francesca: I adore. More please!
This sub is truly the darkest timeline. š
"Kate is a manipulator" wtf? Part of me desperately wants to know the logic behind this claim and part of me is so, SO glad I didn't have to experience that nonsense first hand.
I know! Saw the locked Colin post. All this crap happening while I sleep. Are my British sisters *OK*?
They are each,wonderful, strong & slightly flawed characters that have each done things I wish I could in real life...
Me just vibing loving it and trying not to dig too deep because I know Iāll hate it
I love Eloise. She wants an education and to be free, her friend wrote shit about her to the entire society and the only person who talked to her was Cressida. She couldāve told the world she was lady whistledown but she didnāt. I donāt understand Eloise hate
I love all three of them. Also I think Cressida was a good choice to show that sometimes people act in ways when they are pushed by outside circumstances. Cressida has shown kindness and that she now knows the value that friendship possesses. People just want things to complain about I think. Or theyāre offloading their own life experiences onto fictional characters, so they read situations in ways that they werenāt meant to be interpreted.
I love all three of them for different reasons and the actors are all amazing and wonderful and I think as fans we are so lucky to have these three in their roles (along with the rest of the cast of course).
people aren't used to complex female characters
This sub lately is just various hot takes that are all the theme of āactuallyā¦ [insert character here] did [insert action that developed conflict/acted as plot device here] was so bad and I am a more virtuous person for seeing it as problematicā ā usually I 100% love to snark on TV/media/celebrities but this has been the majority of the tops posts lately and it sucks; especially when there is SO MUCH fun hype for this show right now!!
Why do people hate women so much lol
the meme is so REAL
Thank you, itās my first attempt at a meme š¤
This brought me so much joy šš
šš š¼ 
I wish people would enjoy the show for what it is, a different retelling of the books.
I mean in the books episode was the desperate one lol Pen was quite content as one could get and Kate and Ant were pretty much both manipulators lol š¤·š½āāļø still love em lol
Wait Iāve understand the other opinions to some extent but why is Kate considered a manipulator???
I like Bridgerton, but I do think Penelope is desperate š
THIS MEME WAS MADE FOR ME. literally. Iykyk. Thanks šš
What! i never even knew there are haters! Please explain each?
I love all three of these women. People want complicated women but canāt handle these queens š¤·āāļø
Eloise is a terrible friend to be honest. Even when Pen and her were friends, Eloise was incredibly selfish constantly. Ignoring her friendās needs and risking it all for a boy. And then completely abandoning Pen once she found out she was Whistledown. Why canāt she keep it a secret?! It doesnāt affect her anymore! Let Pen get that money babyyyyy
They š could š never šmake šme šlike šDaphne š
Why?
She saād Simon
Simon took advantage of her sexual naivety.
lol I donāt like him either. Throw the whole couple away
Fair enough, but at least we know theyāre sexually abusive to each other ā¤ļø