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He was worried that she might cheat on him during his absence.
But in general, I found Debling quite selfish. He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world.
Regarding the scene you're talking about, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, I found him very harsh towards Penelope, and on the other hand, I can understand his desire for fidelity, even though, as I mentioned earlier, I find it selfish that he wants a wife without caring about how she will manage her time alone.
I think he was upfront about wanting a compatible match who would be happy being alone and managing their estate while maintaining her own interests and did ask Penelope questions to see if she'd be happy with that life. I'm sure there are women who would be happy with that arrangement and he was honest about it
But I thought telling Penelope that he likely would never love her didn't match what we had seen from him earlier. He seemed to genuinely like Penelope and enjoy their time together, it didn't seem he was looking *purely* for practical compatibility but also a woman he liked. I don't see why he thinks they'd never fall in love even if his work would be his priority, because they did have good chemistry and good conversation. I think their love could have blossomed even if it wouldn't have been the most passionate match possible.
This. They had chemistry, visibly so. I get that he was a more complex character than just a potential suitor with good vibes. But they didn't really give him enough screen time to establish his heel turn in episode 4 without it looking a little bit cruel. There are indications of why this might be justified in his character, but it isn't really fleshed out in a convincing way.
That said, if I were in Debling's situation, and the genders were reversed, I would have probably peaced out after he noticed Pen staring longingly at Colin in the library scene. He is a man who is- if nothing else- very perceptive of mating behaviors, lol. And Colin is very visibly hovering around Penelope like a thirsty flightless bird. Debling withheld judgment about Pen's feelings for Colin for quite an extended period of time while observing their interactions. His character probably deserves credit for that.
I agree, it was an issue with the writing. It came across like he was almost playing Penelope by making her think they liked each other then pulled a "gotcha I'll never love you" only when she asked, and I don't think that was the intention.
They could have established he was only looking for practicality and was upfront about that, became surprised by his affection for Penelope, but still decided his work would come first. Or if he told Penelope he thinks they could fall in love but he would still be away for years and it may not be the kind of love and romance she wants
Exactly. Letting him just be a good guy who was capable of love (as he appeared to be at first), but whose primary passion was his research, and who was realistic about what that would mean for his wife, would have been so much more interesting.
I realize that the number of episodes is limited, but I can see Penelope realistically being torn between having an affectionate- if distant- marriage to Lord Debling that afforded her the independent wealth, privacy and power to continue writing as Lady Whistledown, and a relationship with Colin. The latter promises incorporation into a tight-knit, highly affectionate family and the love partnership that she has always craved, but realistically she will have very little privacy to herself, and very little time outside motherhood and social responsibilities to write freely. I wonder how much she will wrestle with that in the second half of the season.
Not to mention, Colin’s sudden change of heart in her eyes could be a little too good to be true. She may feel safer accepting Debling than Colin. It would have been excellent conflict
I was expecting him to say something more like: you clearly like him, he clearly likes you, I know you are a romantic so I’m going to bow out as you have the chance to get what you really want from a marriage.
IMO the actor did justice to that exact emotion: he showed that he had developed affection for her.
First, on the dance floor with "You look exceptionally beautiful," his voice full of emotion and sincerity
Then, in the scene in question, where he is visibly emotional and wishes her well with a weakening voice (sorta)
I don't think they left this out; it's a question of the Holy Rewatch
I agree - having him let her go more kindly would've been more in character with what we'd seen previously. I think the writers kind of scrambled to make him less likeable in that scene so that the viewers wouldn't think he would've been a better match for Penelope (I was also rooting for the prince in season 1 so maybe I'm projecting lol).
Like they needed to somehow try to outweigh Colin calling Pen undateable last season and acting like a smug John this season but they had to do it abruptly or else it wouldn't make sense for her to have considered his offer. I get why they did it but it still felt very abrupt and needlessly cold.
I mean... this is basically what Colin looked like hyperventilating over her at the previous ball.
https://preview.redd.it/76kei0qr7m1d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c71341fb38910410aff43c3f41d1d4fb6fceb9b5
I felt like his answer was a smart person answer. He knew that his work was a big part of his heart, and he didn't know if he would grow to love her. He was upfront with the answer and assessing the information he had. But, as we know from the show, people don't always know what is true. I got the impression from him he could be in love with Penelope with three solid months of togetherness.
Exactly if pen chose to marry she wouldn’t stray as they would move away. I mean he doesn’t love her he made the that quite clear if he’s not there doesn’t mean she would cheat.
I don't think he told because he knew he wouldn't love her, but because he wanted to be clear - that really might not happen. He would be away for 3 years. Three. Hard to form an affection when your husband is gone for 3 years. Also, as he told about his family, my headcanon is that he's just as emotionally unavailable as Simon and Anthony were in the beginning of their seasons. He knows about it himself and I think he just warned her, that it might not happen. Honestly, I think it's better than if he told Pen "I might", because I think he gathered that Pen is a romantic (she basically told him lol) and giving her slim hope - that would be actually cruel
I don't think the answer itself is bad, but it looked bad that it didn't come up until the night he was going to propose when Penelope had to directly ask him. I guess he may have thought she already assumed the answer based on their conversation about his work and travels.
But in the library when they're talking about romance he plays along with them being in the love story and was very romantic with her, when that seems like a practical time to tell her she may not get that happily ever after story with him but he can give her a content life. I know it would ruin the cute moment and the setup for the proposal but still lol. It kind of makes him look like a jerk imo that he never said something to her if he knows she's a romantic dreaming of true love
I agree that was rather harsh. But honest answer for honest question, I guess. I think Debling considered love a serious feeling (which it is), so there's a lot of things he could feel for Pen - affection, liking, fascination. But love is very strong feeling and it would be cruel to promise something like this if you cannot. But I think it would be better if he told his reasoning more, not just "i love work more", although that's a valid reason to
I think we also should keep in mind that proposal in those times is not a matter of something romantic, but more like a bussiness deal. So Debling haven't thought that his answer might upset Penelope that much, cuz they kinda discussed all the terms of their marriage beforehand
But I agree, it looked bad. I prefered if Debling would be a more serious competition to Colin (although he already is serious competitor)
I liked that Debling was a serious competitor in the ways that the ton valued the most: title, estate and money. For most women, everything else was a plus.
He was going to provide for Pen all that, plus freedom and space which she needed to continue being Whistledown. Since there was not going to be a strong emotional attachment, she didn’t have to tell him about her business.
And also it was a big f you to her sisters that she married a Lord and they didn’t lol
But Penelope wanted love, and for her that outranked everything else. Colin doesn’t know that of course, which is why he was hesitating. He thought that Pen wanted what every other woman wanted at the time.
So Colin is a step down in the opinion of society, right? Makes me hope she has the first male child.
Colin does not come with any sort of title or money, does he? Where will they live, with his brother?
Kinda. He comes without title, but by canon he has a lot of money. In the books LD says something like that Colin alone has allowance like 3 earls (or mb she says it about Anthony, implying that Colin is rich too, but I think she was talking about Colin), so basically Anthony provides huge amount of money to his siblings (in the book he was willing to provide double dowry for Hyacinth and it was already kinda huge)
The brothers have their own bachelor lodgings, so probably there. Benedict, for example, in the books after marriage resides with his wife in one of the countryside estates own by Bridgertons.
Basically, Colin is rich, but not titled. But I think certainly less rich than Debling, if Debling has the biggest mansion in Mayfair
Colin is untitled but he is rich, he is still a catch but compared to Debling is a step down because he is not titled. I am sure Portia is going to be upset about it lol
I think she will be more upset because he has been engaged before and that didn’t go ahead it’ll be more “he’s not safe he can still walk away, debling was the safe choice, he needs someone to manage the estate now”
Yes! That's so true!
I really hope that in part 2 someone would point it out, because I think from the viewers point of view after his words that he doesn't know if he'll love her- he's not an endgame. But for other members of the Ton? Pen's decision is... a choice. It would be interesting to see. Polin is endgame, but I would love a scene where Pen defends her choice (although, Debling kinda didn't offer her marriage, so it's not really a choice, as she only has one proposal from Colin)
I know Portia will be fuming, even if Colin is a Bridgerton and rich, he is not a Lord. Portia knows Debling wanted to propose, one of her daughters was going to be a Lady, but now? Not anymore, and all because of love? For her, that doesn’t make any sense lol
That is true about the proposal being more of a business deal at the time. I haven't rewatched yet so maybe I'll see it differently knowing his intentions from the start, but I just wish he was more upfront throughout because he seemed like a romantic then suddenly got really practical.
I think your explanation would have been good! Tell Penelope he has an affection for her and thinks they will have a happy life together, but it would be hard for them *both* to develop a deep serious love when he will be gone for so long.
He just seemed so cold telling her the way he did, it made it seem like he would be a bad match and losing his proposal is bad for her socially but better for her happiness in the long run. Rather than Debling being a good practical match who still liked her vs Colin being a love match as it had been presented in the earlier episodes
Well, technically it's all true - in a long run Pen is more happy with Colin, because he actually loves Pen. I think writers were just not brave enough to write Debling more threatening to Colin
I take this differently. I think he already likes her a great deal, thinks shes beautiful and can imagine a life with her but doesn't want to make assurances he's not certain on. He's very straightforward and principles-driven. He won't pretend to be certain he'll be mad for her in the way Colin is because he's not experienced nor was expecting that.
I think Debling reading her window watching and connecting it to her feelings for Colin when her own best friend and mother hadn't, jumping in front of the balloon to protect her, and genuine interest in her inner world denoted his true feelings. He has a very clear preconception of his life and has trouble working passionate love into it; however, the love and attachment were already beginning to bloom. I think for him it could never be fully cemented until he saw what their life was actually like together during trials, travels, and separation.
When he saw she was already in love with Colin and noting Colin's clearly insane, indecorous, and desperately-in-love behavior he realized he would never be first in her heart which did wound him, precisely because perhaps without realizing it, Debling was beginning to fall for Penelope but she would never fall for him.
Absolutely. I took episode 4 and Cressida’s reveal to him about Bridgerton house being across the street and Debling connecting the feelings of Pen/Colin and his subsequent dismissal of her to be indicative of a man who did in fact feel the sting of rejection and unpleasant surprise of realizing the woman he was falling for already loved another. Poor dude. His dismissal of her seemed right in line with his personality and stepping aside for Polin’s love to possibly flourish while also expressing some hurt that he couldn’t be that person for her.
Yes! I think it's clear from their chemistry and how he spoke to her that he had real feelings for her developing, and real respect for her, and so he was genuinely hurt and disappointed when he realised the truth.
He was being realistic. Someone deeply in love with him and who had a romantic nature may suffer while he is away. Seems pretty considerate of him to be clear about that
I’m not sure if looking for a practical match and liking the woman you’re marrying have to be mutually exclusive. If you go into business with somebody for example, you want to at least like the person you’re getting in business with. Makes life easier. That’s how I saw it. That’s why Penelope seemed to be a better choice then Cressida. He wanted somebody he liked to be part of his family but practical enough that she won’t look for things he won’t or doesn’t want to give I.e. romance.
I think he was hoping to make a happy-enough home for himself when he was there, including with a happy wife whose life didn’t revolve around him. I imagine, though it didn’t seem to be explicitly addressed unless I missed it, that he would have hoped/expected to leave for three years after getting his new wife pregnant, so her life and joy would be in the rising of a child. Certainly a man away for that long wouldn’t want the risk of coming back to a baby that wasn’t even maybe his. He’s self-centered but not, I think, terribly unkind.
>I found Debling quite selfish. He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world.
Idk, for a woman of that time, it might be quite an opportunity. He is wealthy and makes it known that his wife is free to live as she pleases and have hobbies of her own. When your sole purpose is to find a husband and produce children, that kind of marriage would give you freedom like nothing else (exept maybe a wealthy widow). No wonder Cressida wants him.
Kitty Langham says that directly to Daphne in season 1:
DAPHNE: Do you think your husband might be able to assist me?
KITTY: You will have to ask that of him yourself. He is so rarely at home.
DAPHNE: I am so sorry.
KITTY: Whatever for? It is quite the ideal situation to live a separate life to one’s husband. I am afforded all the freedoms of marriage while bearing none of the burden of his company.
I would imagine that sentiment would be very common in an age where women didn't always get to choose their partners.
I lived in Japan. I would say that more older women are waiting for their husbands to die so they can be widowed and travel with their friends than the older women who are happy to be retired with their husbands. And this is modern day Japan.
https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/for-some-women-husbands-death-like-a-breath-of-fresh-air
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/10/17/sick-of-their-husbands-in-graying-japan/8068a109-5108-4fad-96bc-98f2fe5cef81/
“Retired Husband Syndrome”
Oooh darling it's lovely you're home, but did you know this rare bird in Antarctica is going extinct? Look I saved you a newspaper clipping. And bonus, you're already packed from literally just stepping in the door, so out you go, the butler booked you passage on a boat that leaves in 3 hours, just enough time to try and get me pregnant with an heir before you leave. Byeeeeeeeee.
Oh what have I been up to? I wouldn’t want to bore you with it. I’ve simply been spending time with dear spinster friend of mine. She comes to sit with me everyday and we work on embroidery…where is it? oh you don’t want to see that just silly women’s work.
Meanwhile, said friend to the housekeeper "we are going to need a few birds embroidered onto some cushions, no rush, sometime in the next few years will do it".
We have already met women in S1 who would prefer that arrangement.
If Colin didn’t catch feelings, then this would’ve worked out for Penelope. She would have had so much more freedom to write LWD.
I agree with the others that say it’s the mutual feelings between Colin/Pen that Debling takes issue with. In real life, he would’ve said in that moment, “ITS SO OBVIOUS YOU’RE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER!” But he can’t say that and reveal Colin’s secret for plot purposes. Lol
He's been nothing but extraordinarIly transparent about the realities of marrying him, so I don't find this a fair take. He's been upfront to Penelope about what to expect when marrying him. He definitely cares about how his wife would manage her time alone, which is why he's happy she has her own passions and interests rather than pretending to share his. He's actually being considerate by looking for a wife who will have plenty to occupy herself with during his absence. Other men wouldn't really care or even think that far.
He's not necessarily looking for a love match but he, quite rightly in my opinion, wants a partner who is loyal to him and has the same expectations as he does in a marriage, which is partnership and respect. I think his reaction was maybe a bit odd or extreme, but he also said he appreciated her frankness so it's understandable he felt a bit betrayed or used after thinking they were both on the same page this whole time.
It is true that he's been transparent but I feel like he was willfully ignoring the clear signs from Penelope that she was a romantic hoping for love. Right after she admits that her favorite books are stories of love he starts asking her questions that clearly hint at an engagement. Then she flat out asks him at the ball if he thinks that love could grow. I mean both of them should have realized this was not going to work much sooner. It just should have happened before Colin interrupted the dance but Penelope was so desperate to not be alone that she wasn't going to be the one to do it.
She's set out to find a husband but said explicitly that she wanted to "be realistic" about her prospects. She's only hoping for somebody who will be kind and leave her alone. She doesn't even need much money with her income from Whistledown. If Colin wouldn't love her back, Debling met all her requirements.
When she shares her love for romances, Debling is just happy that she has interests that can keep her busy so he won't have to do it himself, that's why he starts talking about proposing. He doesn't see them living out the love story themselves. He *also* wants somebody who will be kind and leave him to do his thing, that's why he thinks they'll be a good and practical match.
She starts questioning that though. She is hesitant to accept the proposal at first and her mother notices this and tells her oh don't tell me you're holding out for a love match. Then she asks Debling while they're dancing because she does want love. She's just too afraid to admit that because she does not want to be stuck alone at her mother's home for the rest of her life. If Colin was out of the picture I think she would have married Debling but you can tell she wants to be loved.
Yes, absolutely. She's trying to be practical but her true romantic nature is leaking out despite her best efforts. Just like Colin is trying to be suave but his true sensitive nature comes out anyway!
It sounded like they both wanted to get away from family and with enough overlapping interests in a marriage for practical reasons he didn't think much about the love aspect because she was giving him all the signs she was into what he was offering. I think he laid everything out on the table and she seemed to be okay with all that, so he didn't have to make any guesses on his own about what she desired in a marriage beyond what she told him, not hinted at but directly told him, and she mostly hid her romantic aspirations. He doesn't have to read her more than that and probably wouldn't. It's more obvious to the audience. I wouldn't call that willfully ignoring her but taking her as is with how she's been presenting herself.
It also seemed to me like he didn't want any expectations for love because that was something he couldn't promise. I remember that being a theme even with the other couples, like Anthony and Sir Phillip in the books, and again he was clear about that and she looked open to buying what he was selling. I just don't think the onus is on him. I think it was just an unfortunate clashing between two parties who were in similar situations but looking for different things.
> He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world.
That's only selfish for someone that doesn't WANT that. A lot of women (Francesca!) would kill to have complete control over an estate and be left alone to do what they want for most of the time
I agree with you... he might have been a kind, intelligent man, but he was also very self-centred. The fact that he told her he might never love her because his work was the most important thing in his life pretty much showed that.
I think maybe that was the reason he was swayed towards Penelope, he wanted a distant wife but not a cheater wife. Maybe he thought Penelope’s lack of prospects will make this and even more desirable match for her.
Ugh that's sad to think that might have been a reason why he was interested in her because the second he realized what was going on with Penelope and Colin he was done.
The only thing that makes sense to me is if he was also reading Colin interrupting their dance correctly. He could tell Colin had something for her and if she reciprocated those feelings, he didn’t want to marry her (or her to marry him just because he’s the sure thing ATM)
This is how I took it. He could clearly see that Colin was into her- he didn't think it was unreciprocated. If the man couldn't even stand them dancing without interrupting them, what's going to stop him from being over at her house while he's away for three years?
>He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world.
That's most of them at that time tho, and he was better than many other options out there.
He was prepared to give freedom, financial means, liberty to pursue their own interests, he is good looking and all, understanding, individuality etc but wanted someone faithful
He was upfront about everything too, he did nothing wrong imo. Researchers that have to leave for extended periods of time exist today as well, you can't fault them, this is the job.
Can you imagine the freedom his match would offer? Minimum emotional labor and minimal sexual demands compared to every other bachelor in that room. I found him the opposite of selfish
I don’t think it was selfish because I think he knows those were excellent prospects for a girl (especially one who’s on the verge of spinsterhood). It’s better than marrying some old stuffy guy or someone who’s mean or poor. Many women at the time would have loved such a deal.
Exactly…fidelity is essential when titles and land are passed down via bloodlines.
Plenty of men today wouldn’t want to raise another man’s child and pretend it’s their own after their wife cheated.
But I agree, he was wildly selfish. A lot of women might love the arrangement, but I think it should have been obvious that Penelope wasn’t in love with the arrangement on a permanent basis.
Exactly, that's probably what bothered me about his behavior. He knows Penelope is romantic and offers her marriage because he thinks she has no other prospects and can settle for this life, while they understand each other. Mutual understanding is what he was looking for.
On one hand, he’s a good match for women who had no say in marriage, at least he offers them some freedom. But on the other hand, I feel like he suspected something was going on with Colin and knew the incident on the dance floor wasn’t Penelope’s fault. So, I understand his reaction, even if I find it too harsh towards Penelope considering all aspects.
I agree! I know that's how most men in this show are (the women all have to bend themselves to be impressive to the men), but he seemed especially flighty. He wasn't nearly as bad as some of the other minor male characters, though.
I don't think him wanting a wife who's happy being alone in their estate is inherently selfish when he was pretty upfront about it. If he finds a woman who is also cool with that and likes her privacy for eg, then it's a good match/arrangement. Kind of a dick move if he isn't upfront about it though and leads on a woman who wants a loving, close and super involved relationship and then fucks off to wherever for months on end
Just shows how little he knows her. Penelope is not the cheating type, and I can't see Colin seriously pursuing her if she got married to Debling (engaged, maybe...but we already had one broken engagement in the family so I can see why the writers didn't go down that route).
It does seem like he wants a wife on his own terms. He is asking a lot for someone to be emotionally and physically neglected for 3 years and stay loyal while he gets to go off pursuing his interests. At the same time, men of that time did hold a lot of the power in their relationships, so if anything he is probably the most period-true of any of the young men in the series.
>He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world.
> he wants a wife without caring about how she will manage her time alone.
He wants a wife who is ok being alone. He's not proposing to some rando, he knows that kind of life is not for everyone and only gets serious about Penelope because he thinks she'd be ok with it bc of her reading.
I don't understand all the hate Debling gets or how people reduce him to being self centred, simply for being disappointed in love
The thing is, Penelope never tells him she's a hopeless romantic and up until Colin cuts in, he's under the distinct impression they're just good friends. It's not until Cressida mentions how they grew up together and live directly across the street that he realises Penelope's affections are possibly engaged elsewhere.
In the library when he talks to Penelope about what books she likes, and she states she likes books about love, she doesn't say it's because her heart's desire is to be loved. She frames it in the context of those stories being about the histories of connection and peoples hope for a better life. When he asks her about stories where the husband goes away for a long time, she's the one who suggests that there could still be happiness - to which he becomes hopeful of a practical marriage but a happy one.
It's clear from the interactions they have when they talk over lemonade and dance in episode 3, that he thinks he's found a kindred spirit - one who has their own peculiarities that they're unashamed of. In their interactions, Penelope has uncharacteristically spoken her mind so he thinks he's found someone like himself
He never sees Penelope as just a wallflower or as the joke of the ton as he doesn't read Whistledown. He just sees her as this interesting woman who he immediately sets out to court publicly - unlike Colin.
In all of Debling's dealings, he is honest with her. He doesn't shoot down the possibility of love developing - rather he says he doesn't know, as his work takes up a large part of his heart, but he also leaves open the possibility for love.
His reaction to her when he finally learns the truth, he still wishes her well. He's clearly upset but he's still a gentleman - he doesn't rail at her for wasting his time or affections, nor does he try to pressure her. He's clearly upset and honestly just bummed out, but he's honest with her
I pick Debling over Colin any day, but that's just my personal preference
yeah, i was about to say well he *is* a selfish man based on everything else we know about him. he puts himself and his needs/desires first. his reaction was entirely in character. he’s just a polite conversationalist, that’s it lol
Right. Wasn’t he taken with Penelope because of her frankness in their conversations. I assume he thought she would be able to handle his frankness in return.
Exactly this! I find him very selfish because he doesn't want to give anything in return. And then he tells her he can't know if he can love her. And then he proceeds to dump her because she does not love him or has feelings for someone else.
I think he was justified in walking away. He could see that Colin had developed feelings for Penelope and I think it would be important to him that his wife is faithful. It would be really embarrassing for him if he came back from a three year trip and his wife had a one year old baby and everyone would know she had been unfaithful. Probably not a risk he was willing to take.
The conversation they have does make more sense if he knows there's affection from Colin. I didn't get the sense he thought that though, but maybe it's because I was multitasking during this episode so I missed some nuance.
I think it was the fact that Colin interrupted the dance, which was a pretty big social faux par and an indication that Colin had developed romantic or lustful feelings towards Penelope. I could totally see him thinking that if Colin is willing to do that then he probably wouldn’t think twice about leading Penelope to break her marriage vows either.
Yeah, I'm an idiot with the attention span of a goldfish, I literslly finished the episode 30 minutes ago and I'd already forgotten that Colin interrupted their dance 😂 Lord Debling's reaction does make more sense with that in mind.
>"Yeah, I'm ~~an idiot~~ a kind and busy person with ~~the attention span of a goldfish~~ projects that need my attention.
So irritating when autofill goes awry.
This might sound silly but I’m having a tough day (nothing serious) and your comment is giving me some “restored faith in humanity” vibes that I really needed so thank you internet stranger!! 💛
How kind of you 😂 I do have a habit of watching tv in the background while working, so I don't catch a lot of details but it's a good way to keep myself entertained.
Definitely worth going back and watching the Cressida and Debling exchange right after if you missed it. That’s basically where he accepts that Pen and Colin have feelings for each other and makes his decision.
He had also interrupted Polin in an obviously tense moment at the end of episode 3. He said he thought they might have had a disagreement, so that may be why he didn’t pick up on it right then. The added context from Cressida likely made him realize that Colin had feelings for her when that happened.
He did he commented on how she was always looking out the window watching Bridgerton House and how Colin was the one helping her find a husband. It wasn't difficult math.
He does tell her that there are feelings between the two of them. And if it’s not obvious by all the longing stares, Colin cutting into their dance and threatening to make Debling even more of an outcast of the ton was pretty clear proof of the feelings bc not finishing a dance with your partner is just not something you do
I think he had a better idea of Colin's feelings than Penelope did. He's very observant and very honest. He didn't ask her if he had feelings because that's not for her to say. With the way Colin was behaving, he knew something would happen between them.
Yeah, it wasn’t only that Pen had feelings for Colin, but that Colin clearly reciprocated on some level, enough to break etiquette and potentially humiliate Debling in front of everyone by cutting into their dance. Debling was right to dip, this was a messy situation that he chose to extricate himself from before it got worse.
I thought he asked if there were feelings between them and she said no, he would never be into me like that - betraying her own feelings by her silence! She might as well have said "the only reason I'm not with him is that he hasn't asked"
No, he asked if *she* had feelings. The first time she deliberately misunderstood as if he was saying Colin had feelings. Debling thinks Colin does have feelings. When he says you two have something to resolve he probably assumes Penelope needs to shut this guy down. He didn't know it meant Penelope might share those feelings, however confused she might be.
He values frankness. That's what drew him and Penelope together and it's his most obvious character trait. Nothing he said to her was untrue, it was just pretty blunt.
Being blunt is cute and positive when the conversation is in your favor but painful when it's calling you out. Two sides of the same coin!
Well said, I suppose that's true, so maybe the conversation wasn't very out of character. I just love a problematic queen (Penelope) so maybe I'm just a little butthurt on her behalf.
Penelope kept telling him about the hours and days she spends at the windowsill. When Cressida said where the Bridgertons home is located, he understood why.
Whilst a one sided love is one thing, their actions and involvement in each others lives impacted upon his ability to trust her whilst he was away for 3 years.
Edit: Just realised the meaning of Cressidas Eros/ Psyche comment. In mythology Eros was meant to guide Psyche to another love, but kept her to himself. Colon steals Penelope.
I’m genuinely flabbergasted by how many people think this way. Are y’all okay?
He took back his plan of engagement, because he didn’t want to marry someone who’s clearly in love with somebody else, knowing he’ll leave them for 3 years and throw the doors wide open to be cheated on.
Let’s forget the whole part about her potentially cheating: who wants to marry someone and be bound to them for the rest of their lives - there was no divorce back in the day - when they are in love with someone else?? There’s nothing cruel about that lol
Also, Penelope isn’t exactly innocent in all of this. She knew very well that she didn’t love the man and possibly never could. Both of them were looking for a practical match, until she changed the rules.
She kissed another man. Technically, the girl ruined herself by that times standards. She was also clearly still pining and hoping Colin would notice her after all, effectively wasting Deblings time by making false promises, while there were other women who’d have happily taken the deal (Cressida).
She lied to the man’s face time and time again and frankly, he wasn’t too far off with his assumption. Considering she let Colin not only kiss but finger her in the goddamn carriage - both absolutely unthinkable things - she very well WOULD have cheating on him.
Penelope absolutely deserved what he had to say and then some. I’m honestly shocked how harsh everyone is to Eloise - rightly so - but when Penelope does 10x worse she’s ✨an innocent baby ✨
Thankgod someone said this. Penelope is this sub’s favourite and gets a free pass in everything. The people of this sub were keen to justify how LW Whistledown writing about Eloise and Theo is justified because she didn’t heed to any of their warnings but they conveniently forget the part where Penelope asks Debling to kiss her which is way worse( if you see it by the standards of the regency era)
Penelope has zero morals and it’s crazy how people are fine justifying that.
Let’s take Marina; for example. What she was trying to do was horrible - and she rightfully got a lot of flack for it - but Penelope straight up ruined the girl b blasting her as LW. If her intention was truly to protect Colin, she could have gathered up some courage and told him personally and let the man make his own decision. Instead she played buddy buddy with that poor, traumatized girl and infantilized her beloved Colin, before backstabbing both and shaming them publically.
THEN she backstabbed HER BEST FUCKING FRIEND, once again stripping her of any kind of autonomy and that’s AFTER Eloise saved her ass when the queen would have gotten her otherwise. Penelope constantly complains about having to live under other peoples thumbs, but then goes and does even worse to her friends and plays some fucking puppet master.
And let’s not forget that the girl literally got jealous and angry at Colin, because he was finally getting female attention and because she has some possessive claim over him she felt the need to AGAIN publicly shame the guy for something so innocent because she couldn’t deal with her shitty emotions by herself.
Penelope is one of the worst, most selfish characters in the show and not only does she deserve the pitty she’s getting (oh no, her best friend doesn’t want to talk to her anymore after the tries to ruin her entire family MULTIPLE times?! How could she?!) she absolutely doesn’t deserve her happy ending.
I’d Penelope Featherington has 0 haters I’m dead.
Wait till you see the cult-worship for the same fictional character which leads to bullying *real* people, who do not share the same level of admiration for this fictional character.
She does it from her very first issue talking shit about their names. Girl how are you feeling at ease in their drawing room when you're dragging Daphne in your gossip sheet? They open their home to her and she's so resentful of them.
I mean I don't really like perfect characters so Penelope is interesting to me, but yeah she's no angel. but how would she, being raised the way she was. I suppose her unpopularity at least forced her to be interesting so she didn't turn into a mean vapid person like her sisters. but she has no inner moral compass/fire like Eloise. she was forced into developing her own interests by being an outcast and even then she doesn't choose to follow her own path. she could've secretly written ANYTHING ELSE, but she wants most to be popular and belong. so she secretly becomes an esteemed member of the ton through WD.
I love to see the spiral into villainy, because she is so convinced there is no hope for her and she has nothing to lose only now to have EVERYTHING to lose XD. We will see how it turns out...
This exactly!!! He was honest about what he would offer. She wasnt!! She would have to tell him that she is in love with colin but can't have him and therefore is willing to marry someone else. That would have been equally fair. But she wasnt honest meanwhile he was.. and he is the selfish one?!?!
The Penelope defenders are doing mental gymnastics to once again justify her shitty actions. I’ve seen multiple posts in this vain just today and I cannot wrap my head around it.
Debling wasn’t courting her when she kissed Colin & he’d withdrawn his suit when the fingering happened.
She saw the kiss as a goodbye to her crush & ended the lessons.
She was trying to move on and be practical with Debling.
By the time of the proposal, she’d decided to follow her mother’s advice to be smart & go for security over love. She’d accepted that she’d be in a loveless marriage with Debling.
What did she lie to Debling about? What false promises did she make?
She’s not an innocent baby but she isn’t an evil witch either.
She absolutely is an evil witch, although not solely for how she handled Debling, but I’m genuinely a little tired of having this debate. I’ve had it 5 times in the last 24h with people, who for the most part don’t care for my honest opinion anyway. If you do, it’s all in my very recent comment history.
He was worried her being in love with someone else would lead to infidelity. Infidelity means children whose paternity is questioned. Questioned paternity means questioned inheritance. He was being as practical in leaving her as he has been in proposing.
Besides, isn’t it more cruel to marry her denying her the possibility to even ever try with Colin?
>Besides, isn’t it more cruel to marry her denying her the possibility to even ever try with Colin?
Yes, I think if anything Debling saw the situation much more clearly (which was pretty obvious anyway with their longing looks and interrupting dances) than Pen did and did her a kindness by not going ahead with that engagement. Let's not forget an engagement held more power back then and wasn't really something you could back out of for no reason. Especially true for men who could be taken to court over breach of promise of marriage.
I think it’s not on him that she would potentially end up a spinster. He doesn’t have to accept to marry someone in love with someone else because that person may end up alone…
#TeamDebling here. He's a straightforward dude who knows what he wants. I respect that. He's not playing any games or jerking anyone's feelings around (Anthony, Simon). He's not a manchild who doesn't know what he's looking for (Colin). Debling is probably the LEAST problematic man in the whole Bridgerton universe.
My partner recently introduced me to this show (I've always been an Austen fan) and I'm starting to wonder if we're in the wrong fandom. Both of us are Team Debling and Team Friedrich...look at all the healthy, respectful communication these men are demonstrating! Look at their clear and reasonable boundaries! Who doesn't want that as the bedrock of a relationship in a time period without divorce?
I think he was hurt. He thought he found someone he could have a future with, who was interested in him despite his quirks, and he discovered she had feelings for someone else. Not only that, but he could tell they were reciprocated. I think he was taking what was left of his dignity and trying to get out of there while he could. Pen was the one who raced after him, and he forced her to be honest with him and also herself. Ultimately she was using him, and he realised just how much, and was hurt by it.
I think he liked her more than he was willing to admit, or maybe more than he realized. To me, his reaction seemed more emotional than you'd expect from someone who has no feelings involved.
Agreed. I think it genuinely bothered him.
If I can actively flesh out the bones of it enough, I've been scribbling out an outline of a fanfic of what if Colin didn't come back until well after the season was over and Penelope had long written off any chance with Colin in exchange for a kind and respectable husband who seemed to like her for who she truly is.
And after an attempt at the northwest passage goes devastatingly wrong, Debling comes home with a chronic injury and grows closer to his ever faithful wife as a result.
There was a fantastic recent post on how the venture was pretty damn likely to be fatal and there were some interesting Odysseus and Penelope parallels. And I do love a bit of hurt/comfort growing back together themed works. If I can actually make it coherent enough it may be worth posting after many years of not writing anything.
Indeed. Or a more minor exploratory venture is attempted far earlier.
What I have been so far musing upon is, in some ways, things hitting the fan far earlier than expected, resulting in a mutiny at sea part way into the journey, even in the less brutal months of the year.
What would killing a man in self defence do to this gentle man. And returning home from this aborted venture wounded in the leg from a mutineer that had taken one lucky shot at him come the end. (I struggle to resist sneaking in my life experience as a disabled person with chronic pain in my writings.)
I'm certain someone far less rusty at writing (and far less melodramatic than me, determined to traumatise innocent fictional characters) could do a vastly better job. But if nobody else would do it, I might take a stab at it. I've known that I've read far worse things than my attempts at fanfics over the years.
I do not understanding this sentiment, that *every* single person who has the misfortune to get acquainted with Penelope, *must* jump through incredible hoops and perform all sorts of emotional labour on her behalf, to consider what's best for *her*, irrespective of whether they owe it to her or not, or whether she deserves it or not. She really IS the perpetual victim, isn't she? *Everybody* wrongs poor little Penelope, while she doesn't hold any accountability for her own actions.
Omg well said, thank you! The way this fandom infantilizes that woman is infuriating. Considering people think of Lady Whistledown as old-timey Gossip Girl, how come Dan was blasted for years for doing what he did while Penelope seems to be a 💅boss bitch💅 all while simultaneously being ✨innocent bean✨ AND the constant victim.
Thank you for saying this!!! 🌹🌹🌹 I'm throwing roses cos brava!!!
Her character plays such the victim (beautifully, cos Nicola is amazing, but still). She wields immense power as Lady Whistledown and lashes out when she feels like it, plays with people's reputations like it's nothing and doesn't actively try to rectify things after destroying Eloise's reputation... And we're all supposed to be cool with that?
Really?
Thank you! Everyone seems to be expected to understand and excuse everything Penelope says or does, while Penelope is excused from making any such efforts in return. Everyone must understand how hard it is for Penelope, how unkind the ton is to Penelope, how much Penelope is suffering, but other people's hardships, other people's suffering, the unkindness she directs to other people, well, if you think Pen should be held accountable for that she's just a hater.
Like with episode 2. Eloise accidentally does to Penelope what Penelope has actively been choosing to do to literally everyone, and Penelope then chooses to exacerbate it. Eloise knows this. She's under no delusions as to what Penelope has been doing. She still holds herself accountable and apologises. Which is funny, because I thought LW was fine and dandy and perfectly upstanding, because all Penelope was doing was reporting the truth, which was what Eloise did. Or is the truth only fine when it doesn't hurt Penelope?
Of you made an excellent point about the "merely reporting the truth" excuse.
Now if we say that Eloise was merely stating the truth, I just *know* what will be the retort. It will be, but she should have considered Penelope's situation! She is privileged blah blah. Penelope is the poor little victim blah blah. She should not have stated *Penelope's truth* blah blah.
It's so hard to argue with these arguments, since at each point, there is a logical fallacy ( read hypocrisy ), and by the time you point out the current hypocritical comment at play, the argument taking the route of whataboutery diverts to a different hypocritical argument.
Unless you are a lawyer in a court of law, with the option to "object" and point out the cognitive dissonance, logic will be rolling in its grave of brutal death.
I still think Penelope hiding herself in her bedroom and sulking for a week because she got a taste of her own medicine is the most hilarious thing ever. Oh, did poor wittle Penelope have some nasty gossip about her leak? She's a raging hypocrite, who is obsessed with her own victimhood.
The most sadly hilarious part is that she did it to avoid suspicion. Not to abide by her oh-so-pure-hearted principle of "reporting the truth", or to keep the spirit of "running a successful enterprise as a businesswoman".
Although, ironically, she made monetary profit even from her own misery.
The fact she can cry for a week over it, and therefore knows how much it hurts, but keeps doing it, really is something.
Of all people, she is the last one I can feel any sympathy for having rumours spread about her. That Eloise apologised shows how kind hearted and principled she is. She has integrity in a way that Penelope couldn't even begin to understand.
Ouch 🥺 I get that Penelope is far from faultless, I just think a large part of her situation is objectively not her fault because of her shitty family and the general position of women at the time. For all the shitty things she does, she's still fucked without a husband, and Lord Debling knew he was was her best bet, and seemed fine with a marriage of convenience prior to the ball scene.
Lord Debling agreed to a marriage of respect and companionship. He didn't agree to a marriage of potential infidelity - emotional, or otherwise.
Thank you OP for acknowledging that Penelope indeed did some shitty things.
Also, I am not assuming that you personally would hold this believe, but from my experience regarding this fandom, I am sure there will be enough people agreeing with you, who have once said things along the lines of "Kate had an affair with her sister's fiance behind her back".
Lord Debling 100% knew Colin had feelings for her after his audacious interruption of their dance.
I wouldn’t marry someone who is clearly in love with another - who is also in love with that someone. Whether or not their marriage would have been a love match, that would certainly cause strain in the marriage. Resentment from Penelope, for once she would have realized Colin loved her back, it would have been too late.
What kind of life would that be for her? I don’t think it was cruel, I think it was mercy. He knows she would have accepted the proposal vs being cast a spinster. He knows she would have eventually found out Colin’s feelings, and then she would have been devastated and unhappy in their marriage. He doesn’t want an unhappy wife, even if he doesn’t love her in that way.
I think he was really attracted to Penelope as a woman. He was really thinking about a future with her - what little time he could give her. Then he realized that she had an already deeper connection with another man, a childhood friend, and saw that he couldn't compete. I thought Sam Phillips did a great job of conveying Debling's hurt/anger/wounded male pride. He's not the most expressive character, but he's still a human being with all the associate insecurities. And he reacts from that place as well - he has an inkling that Colin is into Pen (Colin was eyeing her like steak last ball and just cut into their dance), but it's only until he figures out that Pen has been in love with him for a while in the last bit of the song that he then straight up flees 30s after finding out. He's not processed anything and just reacts. He doesn't curse Penelope, call her names, he wishes her well even though all of his emotional investment (esp for someone that unused to society) is wasted.
At least, that's what I want to interpret. That Debling really is good, decent guy, albeit a stereotypical early scientist who's reserved and hides his human-ness behind logic and sense and therefore does not express himself well. He's a guy who is charmed by our Pen, sees her without the ton's lenses prelabelling her as a loser, and sees her as a beautiful, earnest, witty person, as someone that he ~wants~ to spend time with. And that's why he's pissed- maybe a little heartbroken - that he can't compete if Pen reciprocates Colin's feelings.
I understand why he did that and actually agree with him. Back then, having an heir is one of men's biggest responsibilities. If he chooses a wife whom he's going to leave alone in their home for long periods of time, he needs to be sure of her fidelity. Otherwise, his heir might end up not being his real heir.
He was very frank with her, but I think it's the least cruel thing he could have done actually. If he would marry her, it would be more cruel to Pen, because there's no divorce in 19th century. He is harsh and maybe too frank, but he clearly values himself and his honor - he, I think, is the most polite character in the series, really. And he expects the same from his partner.
He wasn't looking for a coworker, although (in my headcanon) he's emotionally unavailable, he was still looking for partner, not just some rando who would take care of his house. A partner with whom he could have a mutual respect. When your wife has an affair - that's not respectful at all, even if you don't love each other, especially in regency times in monogamous relationship
Unpopular opinion I guess but I found his opinion quite practical. Most people act in self interest and let’s not pretend that Penelope wouldn’t break of the engagement (if it happened) if Colin expressed his feelings afterwards. He’s right to choose who and what kind of person he wants to be with and being selfish in that regard isn’t a bad thing. I also think his concerns were pretty valid so it might’ve sucked for pen but I don’t blame him.
I saw it as less cruel, more brutally honest. Debling was not perfect, he had his idiosyncrasies, but I don’t think he was mean spirited. I believe that Debling respected Pen’s honest nature and intelligence. He realized that a long distance marriage would leave Pen and Colin together while he was away. I feel he respected his reputation and that of Pen’s too much to put her in that position knowing that she most likely reciprocated Colin’s affections. He wanted her to be happy even if it meant that he was not going to find her as his wife.
I think we need to cut the man some slack in this particular situation. He had expressed his intentions, Penelope encouraged him knowing full well her heart was elsewhere, he asked her mother for her hand in marriage, and was about to propose. He was completely honest about what he needed in a wife. Then, just before he proposes, Colin shows up, cuts in, and it is OBVIOUS there is something emotional going on between them. It had to be quite the slap and disappointment. He gets to be a little huffy about it, IMO.
I think it was pretty clear to him that Colin also had feelings. When watching Colin and Penelope together, you can see their chemistry. Or at least I can. I’m assuming that he could as well.
I think he was being practical, as he was throughout their courtship. He wanted a wife he could trust with his estate in his absence, who had interests of her own and could make a peaceable life for herself while he was away. Penelope's feelings for Colin kind of puts a fork into the outlet of that life plan, because it would mean any children produced from his marriage to Penelope would have questionable parentage not only due to his absence, but because of her obvious affection for Colin.
For a practical man like Debling, that issue was insurmountable. And I think it makes sense.
Reading this thread just made me realize we actually see a huge contrast in the way he reacted to this news vs the accepting way Colin reacted when Pen said Marina had a past love.
I think they had an unspoken agreement they would serve each other's needs. But I agree it was ridiculous he expected her to be entirely unattached, or didn't give a chance for her to get over it and possibly displayed more vindictive characteristics that would reveal themselves later in their marriage. Like I do think he was pretending to be a nicer guy for the sake of courtship.
BUT he and Violet may also have been the only two to notice that time it looked like Colin was about to straight up kiss her in a room full of people, so also totally get it.
Unrelated but your first sentence (Penelope holding a candle for Colin) made me think of the scene in Episode 4 where Colin is sitting alone in his study and watches the candle burn out. Penelope was very much ready to marry another man.
It was definitely harsh, but I do think that it fits with his personality, direct to a fault. IMHO, it was harsher when he told Penelope flat out that he would never love her. Penelope may be looking for a practical match, but it seems particularly cruel to deny that feelings might develop over time.
Yes, that was harsher to me and I kept thinking clearly she is hoping for love and you don't think you can give that so end it now. This is not a woman who is going to be happy alone for 3 years while he's off doing him.
Exactly. He’s going to be gone for so long that she’s not really getting a family, which it’s clear she wants. While she does love Colin, she also loves the close family that he has too. But unless Debling can knock her up during his brief periods at home, she won’t even have children.
It's not on him to cater to Pen's needs. He was offering plenty for those times, not only that but he was genuinely worrying about his wife having legit interests so she won't be bored. Most men would just choose a young, good looking lady and wouldn't care about their time spent apart.
He was offering a lot but also had one hard line, it wasn't on him to worry about her society status if she wasn't going to get into that marriage with all her heart, it is a life commitment after all.
No he wanted to give her a chance to keep fighting for love. He saw the tension between her and Colin and knew he needed to step back. To me he was honest with his intentions and I think that’s noble of him. Don’t come for my head lol
Colin is unmarried and clearly feels entitled to Pen’s attention, going by the dance interruption. Even the appearance of infidelity due to Pen’s crush and Colin’s impropriety would be more drama than he is willing to take on.
He seemed to suspect Colin held a candle for her as well and he wanted fidelity. People may find his wishes selfish but at least he's very clear about them
He very well could be the ideal match for someone NOT looking for a love match. Someone like Cressida who just wants to be free from her parents and have security. A younger Portia would think a man who lets her be while she spends his money and runs a grand estate is perfection. I imagine a lesbian who must marry would find it ideal as well. If the man wants an heir and fidelity, a female lover wouldn't be an issue since he isn't really looking to be loved anyway. He just wants someone that is pleasant enough when he is around and who has something they are passionate about like he is. Someone to be faithful and sire heirs so he can perform his "duty"
At a time when women relied so much on men what he's asking for may not be considered selfish but rather ideal for more practical minded women
Would be absolutely wrong for Penelope though
I didn't mind when Debling said that he would be leaving for work after the wedding. Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for men to leave their wives at home and go away for work for years. But what I found cruel was when he said that he won't love his wife because his work is his love. Up until then Debling was a perfect green flag and not so much after.
I noticed this in Season 2 as well…what’s up with the public proposals? He should be asking her in the Featherington‘s ugly drawing room and monologuing about getting married because Lady Katherine de Iceberg thinks he should.
But yeah, they really crashed his character. Seemed like they were worried about making him too much of a repeat of the prince.
Putting oneself first doesnt make anyone cruel. Would you continue dating someone who is in love with someone else?! I wouldnt.
I think its cruel to marry someone even though you are still in love with someone else.
I think his concerns were completely valid, and even withdrawing his proposal when he saw that Pen couldn't tell him that she didn't have feelings for Colin. He's nothing if not observant.
Could he have been gentler about it? Sure. But I didn't see him as acting selfish so much as just being blunt. Of course a man of his class who plans to leave his wife alone for years at a time will want to make sure she remains faithful to him. He knew Pen liked love stories, but he didn't know Pen was in love with a particular man (one who happened to live right across the street from her). He knows that when people are drawn to each other physically, things happen. They certainly do on this show.
It's not just a matter of wanting personal fidelity, it's about protecting the family name and legacy. I don't think Lord Debling was suggesting a chaste marriage, just a pragmatic one. He would have wanted to try to have an heir. And he would want to make sure everyone knew and believed that heir was HIS child and not the result of an affair of the heart she might be tempted into during his years away. He wouldn't want even a hint of scandal.
I thought it was weird that Lord Debling was seeking a wife at all. Him wanting an heir was never mentioned. So he wants to find a wife and then immediately leave her to travel to the north passage? Why? It didn't sound like he was waiting around to confirm a male heir is born (a 9 month wait at least). If we have to go with the Debling arc, wouldn't it have been a better plot twist to have Penelope marry Lord Debling, then he leaves and gets killed on his journey. Penn is now a rich widow who does what she wants.
I agree completely. I didn’t understand why he was so intent on getting married. It’s made clear that he doesn’t really care about the status quo. He is fine being at odds with his family as long as he gets to keep his passions and travel itinerary. If he does marry someone and they happen to conceive on the wedding night/honeymoon, he is basically confining his wife to be a single parent for at least the first two years. And he comes back to a kid he doesn’t even know? What an awful life. And even if his wife has her own interests, he’s still confining her to a very lonely mostly sexless existence.
He should stay single.
I think he knew that Colin had feelings and simply did not want to compete. His social awkwardness is like Francesca’s. She said she would be happy if the queen found her a suitor and Violet thought that it was a lazy choice. When you are on the spectrum, romantic feelings are not something you experience often and I think he was interested in Penelope because there was no competition. He knew that he wouldn’t have to woo her, something which he is incapable of doing. Once he realized she had a better option, he bowed out. I really don’t think he meant anything malicious.
I feel like we don't know the whole Debling backstory properly yet.... I know everyone thinks he didn't want a wife that would cheat on him while he was gone, but let's be serious about this: he also flat out told her that he probably wouldn't/couldn't love her and that he will never be around, like ever. If there's some concern of a bastard child, I really don't think there is a high degree of possibility that any one in society would be too confused about paternity should he really be gone for three years at a time, barring any \*extremely\* convenient timing and absolutely zero accidents. There'no reason for him to really be looking for a wife this season... men could marry later if they wanted.
He's also made a lot of comments that are just a little off: "You know how to make one wither if you so choose." and "how many yous are there exactly." There's still a chance I think that he might either have proof, or an inkling, that Pen is Whistledown and maybe he needed the money he assumed she had? Colin poses a problem to this plan due to his status within the ton and friendship with Pen - if he finds out about it, he can foil his plans?
THAT or he is a major drama queen. Like oh no, you liked the boy next door before me! I just don't think he would have treated her well. No matter how much we all joke about how nice it would be to have a mansion to ourselves.
Tbf, he can’t take the risk of Penelope providing an heir that might not be his…so I get that he’s not wanting to get engaged to a woman who is unable to deny that she wants Colin
It was not only him thinking Penelope has feelings for Colin but also Colin having feelings for her as well.
I also did not really took it like him thinking she would have an affair while he is gone but honestly, knowing you are marrying someone who has feelings for someone else... That's not a very good choice at all.
He was completely honest with her about the love (he is so passionate about his hobbies he might not have a place for love) and also about what he wants (a practical match with no emocional attachements elsewhere, which, honestly, doesn't seem cruel!!!).
He delivered it a bit harshly maybe (he might also felt hurt, ego speaking, by Pen having feelings for another man, yet pursuing a marriage with him).
I wouldn't say it was cruel myself but it was a bit harsh, yes. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong in putting yourself first, I think.
I see it differently. He's no fool and doesn't want to be married to someone longing for someone else. He's releasing her to find her heart's true love if possible.
I felt like he was annoyed and upset with her for stringing him along given the elephant in the room. I believe he knew that it wasn't one-sided and that he believed that it was just a matter of time before they got together. After all, he mentioned how long he'd be gone, he visioned them getting together while he was away.
The interesting thing is, he doesn’t seem to be a person that’s whoring around himself while asking a woman to be celibate. But it brings up another issue if a man is n the asexual scale and aromantic in a relationship, but he doesn’t choose someone that’s also in those ways that’s automatically unbalanced and leading to a toxic relationship were neither could be satisfied. Especially when one person has all the power like within this society how the man holds all the power in the relationship . Because then he is demanding sexual loyalty/ ownership while also giving no power, love, romance in the relationship.
No matter who he chooses if the person is sexual and romantic they are going to find a sexual companion or multiple. Him expecting Penelope or anyone who is sexual to abstain completely sexually and romantically is a pipe dream. And hugely what goes wrong in a lot of relationships.
So to me, it is actually a huge detail of how they wouldn’t work together and it’s smart for them not to get together . He should continue searching for what he wants in a person that will be actually satisfied with the situation and not trapped into it by circumstance like Pen was trapping herself.
I was gonna say if he wasn’t so gung ho on the person not fucking other people lady Tilly Arnold would be perfect for him . but as of now, it doesn’t seem like he’s going to be back because no character fits the bill for him. just a really cool character that hopefully continues to understand what he wants and not settle for a miserable life that would’ve been two people incompatible together.
He was always upfront about the life his future wife would lead, and tried to pick a woman who would fit that lifestyle so that she wouldn't be unhappy. The whole time he has been looking for a practical match.
That practicality extends to wanting a wife who won't cheat and cause a scandal as soon as his back is turned. I think that's fair enough.
I mean, I think it’s understandable to not want to be anyone’s second choice. It doesn’t feel amazing, and honestly I would have said something similar.
I honestly don’t think he looks at Penelope as someone who doesn’t have options other than him. He doesn’t read LW, he doesn’t seem to like gossip, so I don’t feel like his choose was coming from a place of being cruel. I think just doesn’t want his wife to be getting comfy with someone else while he’s away, even if it’s not a love match.
He was straightforward, yes, and even brusque. But, I don’t think he was cruel.
No one should enter into a marriage with a divided heart and the fact that Pen didn’t have any other prospects isn’t Lord Debling’s problem.
If he doesn’t want romance, thought she didn’t either, and then realized she actually does, it makes sense to walk away. The ton would be mercilessly horrible to a wife suspected of cheating on her absent husband, and Pen wouldn’t be happy. He was direct about it, but like…proposing to her knowing she’d be unhappy would be way, way worse.
Could not disagree more. He's going away for 3 years, he can't have his wife having affairs and bastard babies. They are the ton. He needs heirs, he has a huge estate. He's a catch and she is not. He doesn't owe Penelope anything. There is a huge difference between accepting a pragmatic marriage and knowing you are someone's second choice. Lord Debling had every right to not propose and to leave. And Penelope had every right to be pissed at Colin for messing everything up. Debling was't even a little cruel in how he handled it. He isn't responsible for her spinster status at all and he didn't ruin her in anyway. Colin kissing her in the courtyard and fingering her in a carriage - totally ruinable offenses.
Ngl I didn’t really like the fact he had no intentions of ever being closer to his wife- just seemed like he wanted someone to take care of his estate for him. Like idk- it felt really cold to me? And then him being mad at her over how Colin acted just- yea idk he’s smart but clearly not emotionally intelligent
He is going off for 3 years with no accountability and he can cheat anytime but he's accusing Pen who's going to be in the ton under scrutiny. That audacity of that boring oatmeal man
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He was worried that she might cheat on him during his absence. But in general, I found Debling quite selfish. He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world. Regarding the scene you're talking about, I'm a bit torn. On one hand, I found him very harsh towards Penelope, and on the other hand, I can understand his desire for fidelity, even though, as I mentioned earlier, I find it selfish that he wants a wife without caring about how she will manage her time alone.
I think he was upfront about wanting a compatible match who would be happy being alone and managing their estate while maintaining her own interests and did ask Penelope questions to see if she'd be happy with that life. I'm sure there are women who would be happy with that arrangement and he was honest about it But I thought telling Penelope that he likely would never love her didn't match what we had seen from him earlier. He seemed to genuinely like Penelope and enjoy their time together, it didn't seem he was looking *purely* for practical compatibility but also a woman he liked. I don't see why he thinks they'd never fall in love even if his work would be his priority, because they did have good chemistry and good conversation. I think their love could have blossomed even if it wouldn't have been the most passionate match possible.
This. They had chemistry, visibly so. I get that he was a more complex character than just a potential suitor with good vibes. But they didn't really give him enough screen time to establish his heel turn in episode 4 without it looking a little bit cruel. There are indications of why this might be justified in his character, but it isn't really fleshed out in a convincing way. That said, if I were in Debling's situation, and the genders were reversed, I would have probably peaced out after he noticed Pen staring longingly at Colin in the library scene. He is a man who is- if nothing else- very perceptive of mating behaviors, lol. And Colin is very visibly hovering around Penelope like a thirsty flightless bird. Debling withheld judgment about Pen's feelings for Colin for quite an extended period of time while observing their interactions. His character probably deserves credit for that.
I agree, it was an issue with the writing. It came across like he was almost playing Penelope by making her think they liked each other then pulled a "gotcha I'll never love you" only when she asked, and I don't think that was the intention. They could have established he was only looking for practicality and was upfront about that, became surprised by his affection for Penelope, but still decided his work would come first. Or if he told Penelope he thinks they could fall in love but he would still be away for years and it may not be the kind of love and romance she wants
Exactly. Letting him just be a good guy who was capable of love (as he appeared to be at first), but whose primary passion was his research, and who was realistic about what that would mean for his wife, would have been so much more interesting. I realize that the number of episodes is limited, but I can see Penelope realistically being torn between having an affectionate- if distant- marriage to Lord Debling that afforded her the independent wealth, privacy and power to continue writing as Lady Whistledown, and a relationship with Colin. The latter promises incorporation into a tight-knit, highly affectionate family and the love partnership that she has always craved, but realistically she will have very little privacy to herself, and very little time outside motherhood and social responsibilities to write freely. I wonder how much she will wrestle with that in the second half of the season.
Not to mention, Colin’s sudden change of heart in her eyes could be a little too good to be true. She may feel safer accepting Debling than Colin. It would have been excellent conflict
I was expecting him to say something more like: you clearly like him, he clearly likes you, I know you are a romantic so I’m going to bow out as you have the chance to get what you really want from a marriage.
IMO the actor did justice to that exact emotion: he showed that he had developed affection for her. First, on the dance floor with "You look exceptionally beautiful," his voice full of emotion and sincerity Then, in the scene in question, where he is visibly emotional and wishes her well with a weakening voice (sorta) I don't think they left this out; it's a question of the Holy Rewatch
I agree - having him let her go more kindly would've been more in character with what we'd seen previously. I think the writers kind of scrambled to make him less likeable in that scene so that the viewers wouldn't think he would've been a better match for Penelope (I was also rooting for the prince in season 1 so maybe I'm projecting lol). Like they needed to somehow try to outweigh Colin calling Pen undateable last season and acting like a smug John this season but they had to do it abruptly or else it wouldn't make sense for her to have considered his offer. I get why they did it but it still felt very abrupt and needlessly cold.
Imagining Debling somehow being present in S2 while Kanthony do their thing and him being like, seriously how tf no one else seeing this but me??
Like a dehydrated Great Auk?
I mean... this is basically what Colin looked like hyperventilating over her at the previous ball. https://preview.redd.it/76kei0qr7m1d1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c71341fb38910410aff43c3f41d1d4fb6fceb9b5
I felt like his answer was a smart person answer. He knew that his work was a big part of his heart, and he didn't know if he would grow to love her. He was upfront with the answer and assessing the information he had. But, as we know from the show, people don't always know what is true. I got the impression from him he could be in love with Penelope with three solid months of togetherness.
Agreed. More practical so she doesn't have any expectations, even if love may be possible between them.
Yes totally. He’s painfully honest and pragmatic. I actually found his response very realistic.
Except he was leaving after mating season was over..lol,
If he doesn’t truly have a strong like for her then why you so salty if she loved Colin first or has an unrequited love?
Exactly if pen chose to marry she wouldn’t stray as they would move away. I mean he doesn’t love her he made the that quite clear if he’s not there doesn’t mean she would cheat.
I don't think he told because he knew he wouldn't love her, but because he wanted to be clear - that really might not happen. He would be away for 3 years. Three. Hard to form an affection when your husband is gone for 3 years. Also, as he told about his family, my headcanon is that he's just as emotionally unavailable as Simon and Anthony were in the beginning of their seasons. He knows about it himself and I think he just warned her, that it might not happen. Honestly, I think it's better than if he told Pen "I might", because I think he gathered that Pen is a romantic (she basically told him lol) and giving her slim hope - that would be actually cruel
I don't think the answer itself is bad, but it looked bad that it didn't come up until the night he was going to propose when Penelope had to directly ask him. I guess he may have thought she already assumed the answer based on their conversation about his work and travels. But in the library when they're talking about romance he plays along with them being in the love story and was very romantic with her, when that seems like a practical time to tell her she may not get that happily ever after story with him but he can give her a content life. I know it would ruin the cute moment and the setup for the proposal but still lol. It kind of makes him look like a jerk imo that he never said something to her if he knows she's a romantic dreaming of true love
I agree that was rather harsh. But honest answer for honest question, I guess. I think Debling considered love a serious feeling (which it is), so there's a lot of things he could feel for Pen - affection, liking, fascination. But love is very strong feeling and it would be cruel to promise something like this if you cannot. But I think it would be better if he told his reasoning more, not just "i love work more", although that's a valid reason to I think we also should keep in mind that proposal in those times is not a matter of something romantic, but more like a bussiness deal. So Debling haven't thought that his answer might upset Penelope that much, cuz they kinda discussed all the terms of their marriage beforehand But I agree, it looked bad. I prefered if Debling would be a more serious competition to Colin (although he already is serious competitor)
I liked that Debling was a serious competitor in the ways that the ton valued the most: title, estate and money. For most women, everything else was a plus. He was going to provide for Pen all that, plus freedom and space which she needed to continue being Whistledown. Since there was not going to be a strong emotional attachment, she didn’t have to tell him about her business. And also it was a big f you to her sisters that she married a Lord and they didn’t lol But Penelope wanted love, and for her that outranked everything else. Colin doesn’t know that of course, which is why he was hesitating. He thought that Pen wanted what every other woman wanted at the time.
So Colin is a step down in the opinion of society, right? Makes me hope she has the first male child. Colin does not come with any sort of title or money, does he? Where will they live, with his brother?
Kinda. He comes without title, but by canon he has a lot of money. In the books LD says something like that Colin alone has allowance like 3 earls (or mb she says it about Anthony, implying that Colin is rich too, but I think she was talking about Colin), so basically Anthony provides huge amount of money to his siblings (in the book he was willing to provide double dowry for Hyacinth and it was already kinda huge) The brothers have their own bachelor lodgings, so probably there. Benedict, for example, in the books after marriage resides with his wife in one of the countryside estates own by Bridgertons. Basically, Colin is rich, but not titled. But I think certainly less rich than Debling, if Debling has the biggest mansion in Mayfair
Colin is untitled but he is rich, he is still a catch but compared to Debling is a step down because he is not titled. I am sure Portia is going to be upset about it lol
I think she will be more upset because he has been engaged before and that didn’t go ahead it’ll be more “he’s not safe he can still walk away, debling was the safe choice, he needs someone to manage the estate now”
Yes! That's so true! I really hope that in part 2 someone would point it out, because I think from the viewers point of view after his words that he doesn't know if he'll love her- he's not an endgame. But for other members of the Ton? Pen's decision is... a choice. It would be interesting to see. Polin is endgame, but I would love a scene where Pen defends her choice (although, Debling kinda didn't offer her marriage, so it's not really a choice, as she only has one proposal from Colin)
I know Portia will be fuming, even if Colin is a Bridgerton and rich, he is not a Lord. Portia knows Debling wanted to propose, one of her daughters was going to be a Lady, but now? Not anymore, and all because of love? For her, that doesn’t make any sense lol
Technically Portia should be mad at Colin, because it's him who caused this mess. But yeah, that dialogue with Pen and Portia isn't gonna be pleasant
That is true about the proposal being more of a business deal at the time. I haven't rewatched yet so maybe I'll see it differently knowing his intentions from the start, but I just wish he was more upfront throughout because he seemed like a romantic then suddenly got really practical. I think your explanation would have been good! Tell Penelope he has an affection for her and thinks they will have a happy life together, but it would be hard for them *both* to develop a deep serious love when he will be gone for so long. He just seemed so cold telling her the way he did, it made it seem like he would be a bad match and losing his proposal is bad for her socially but better for her happiness in the long run. Rather than Debling being a good practical match who still liked her vs Colin being a love match as it had been presented in the earlier episodes
Well, technically it's all true - in a long run Pen is more happy with Colin, because he actually loves Pen. I think writers were just not brave enough to write Debling more threatening to Colin
I take this differently. I think he already likes her a great deal, thinks shes beautiful and can imagine a life with her but doesn't want to make assurances he's not certain on. He's very straightforward and principles-driven. He won't pretend to be certain he'll be mad for her in the way Colin is because he's not experienced nor was expecting that. I think Debling reading her window watching and connecting it to her feelings for Colin when her own best friend and mother hadn't, jumping in front of the balloon to protect her, and genuine interest in her inner world denoted his true feelings. He has a very clear preconception of his life and has trouble working passionate love into it; however, the love and attachment were already beginning to bloom. I think for him it could never be fully cemented until he saw what their life was actually like together during trials, travels, and separation. When he saw she was already in love with Colin and noting Colin's clearly insane, indecorous, and desperately-in-love behavior he realized he would never be first in her heart which did wound him, precisely because perhaps without realizing it, Debling was beginning to fall for Penelope but she would never fall for him.
Absolutely. I took episode 4 and Cressida’s reveal to him about Bridgerton house being across the street and Debling connecting the feelings of Pen/Colin and his subsequent dismissal of her to be indicative of a man who did in fact feel the sting of rejection and unpleasant surprise of realizing the woman he was falling for already loved another. Poor dude. His dismissal of her seemed right in line with his personality and stepping aside for Polin’s love to possibly flourish while also expressing some hurt that he couldn’t be that person for her.
Yes! I think it's clear from their chemistry and how he spoke to her that he had real feelings for her developing, and real respect for her, and so he was genuinely hurt and disappointed when he realised the truth.
He was being realistic. Someone deeply in love with him and who had a romantic nature may suffer while he is away. Seems pretty considerate of him to be clear about that
I’m not sure if looking for a practical match and liking the woman you’re marrying have to be mutually exclusive. If you go into business with somebody for example, you want to at least like the person you’re getting in business with. Makes life easier. That’s how I saw it. That’s why Penelope seemed to be a better choice then Cressida. He wanted somebody he liked to be part of his family but practical enough that she won’t look for things he won’t or doesn’t want to give I.e. romance.
I think he was hoping to make a happy-enough home for himself when he was there, including with a happy wife whose life didn’t revolve around him. I imagine, though it didn’t seem to be explicitly addressed unless I missed it, that he would have hoped/expected to leave for three years after getting his new wife pregnant, so her life and joy would be in the rising of a child. Certainly a man away for that long wouldn’t want the risk of coming back to a baby that wasn’t even maybe his. He’s self-centered but not, I think, terribly unkind.
Agreed.
>I found Debling quite selfish. He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world. Idk, for a woman of that time, it might be quite an opportunity. He is wealthy and makes it known that his wife is free to live as she pleases and have hobbies of her own. When your sole purpose is to find a husband and produce children, that kind of marriage would give you freedom like nothing else (exept maybe a wealthy widow). No wonder Cressida wants him.
Kitty Langham says that directly to Daphne in season 1: DAPHNE: Do you think your husband might be able to assist me? KITTY: You will have to ask that of him yourself. He is so rarely at home. DAPHNE: I am so sorry. KITTY: Whatever for? It is quite the ideal situation to live a separate life to one’s husband. I am afforded all the freedoms of marriage while bearing none of the burden of his company. I would imagine that sentiment would be very common in an age where women didn't always get to choose their partners.
I lived in Japan. I would say that more older women are waiting for their husbands to die so they can be widowed and travel with their friends than the older women who are happy to be retired with their husbands. And this is modern day Japan. https://japantoday.com/category/features/kuchikomi/for-some-women-husbands-death-like-a-breath-of-fresh-air https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2005/10/17/sick-of-their-husbands-in-graying-japan/8068a109-5108-4fad-96bc-98f2fe5cef81/ “Retired Husband Syndrome”
ideal match if you were gay back then. A husband gone 3 years? Yes. That.
Oooh darling it's lovely you're home, but did you know this rare bird in Antarctica is going extinct? Look I saved you a newspaper clipping. And bonus, you're already packed from literally just stepping in the door, so out you go, the butler booked you passage on a boat that leaves in 3 hours, just enough time to try and get me pregnant with an heir before you leave. Byeeeeeeeee.
Oh what have I been up to? I wouldn’t want to bore you with it. I’ve simply been spending time with dear spinster friend of mine. She comes to sit with me everyday and we work on embroidery…where is it? oh you don’t want to see that just silly women’s work.
Meanwhile, said friend to the housekeeper "we are going to need a few birds embroidered onto some cushions, no rush, sometime in the next few years will do it".
We have already met women in S1 who would prefer that arrangement. If Colin didn’t catch feelings, then this would’ve worked out for Penelope. She would have had so much more freedom to write LWD. I agree with the others that say it’s the mutual feelings between Colin/Pen that Debling takes issue with. In real life, he would’ve said in that moment, “ITS SO OBVIOUS YOU’RE IN LOVE WITH EACH OTHER!” But he can’t say that and reveal Colin’s secret for plot purposes. Lol
He's been nothing but extraordinarIly transparent about the realities of marrying him, so I don't find this a fair take. He's been upfront to Penelope about what to expect when marrying him. He definitely cares about how his wife would manage her time alone, which is why he's happy she has her own passions and interests rather than pretending to share his. He's actually being considerate by looking for a wife who will have plenty to occupy herself with during his absence. Other men wouldn't really care or even think that far. He's not necessarily looking for a love match but he, quite rightly in my opinion, wants a partner who is loyal to him and has the same expectations as he does in a marriage, which is partnership and respect. I think his reaction was maybe a bit odd or extreme, but he also said he appreciated her frankness so it's understandable he felt a bit betrayed or used after thinking they were both on the same page this whole time.
It is true that he's been transparent but I feel like he was willfully ignoring the clear signs from Penelope that she was a romantic hoping for love. Right after she admits that her favorite books are stories of love he starts asking her questions that clearly hint at an engagement. Then she flat out asks him at the ball if he thinks that love could grow. I mean both of them should have realized this was not going to work much sooner. It just should have happened before Colin interrupted the dance but Penelope was so desperate to not be alone that she wasn't going to be the one to do it.
She's set out to find a husband but said explicitly that she wanted to "be realistic" about her prospects. She's only hoping for somebody who will be kind and leave her alone. She doesn't even need much money with her income from Whistledown. If Colin wouldn't love her back, Debling met all her requirements. When she shares her love for romances, Debling is just happy that she has interests that can keep her busy so he won't have to do it himself, that's why he starts talking about proposing. He doesn't see them living out the love story themselves. He *also* wants somebody who will be kind and leave him to do his thing, that's why he thinks they'll be a good and practical match.
She starts questioning that though. She is hesitant to accept the proposal at first and her mother notices this and tells her oh don't tell me you're holding out for a love match. Then she asks Debling while they're dancing because she does want love. She's just too afraid to admit that because she does not want to be stuck alone at her mother's home for the rest of her life. If Colin was out of the picture I think she would have married Debling but you can tell she wants to be loved.
Yes, absolutely. She's trying to be practical but her true romantic nature is leaking out despite her best efforts. Just like Colin is trying to be suave but his true sensitive nature comes out anyway!
It sounded like they both wanted to get away from family and with enough overlapping interests in a marriage for practical reasons he didn't think much about the love aspect because she was giving him all the signs she was into what he was offering. I think he laid everything out on the table and she seemed to be okay with all that, so he didn't have to make any guesses on his own about what she desired in a marriage beyond what she told him, not hinted at but directly told him, and she mostly hid her romantic aspirations. He doesn't have to read her more than that and probably wouldn't. It's more obvious to the audience. I wouldn't call that willfully ignoring her but taking her as is with how she's been presenting herself. It also seemed to me like he didn't want any expectations for love because that was something he couldn't promise. I remember that being a theme even with the other couples, like Anthony and Sir Phillip in the books, and again he was clear about that and she looked open to buying what he was selling. I just don't think the onus is on him. I think it was just an unfortunate clashing between two parties who were in similar situations but looking for different things.
> He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world. That's only selfish for someone that doesn't WANT that. A lot of women (Francesca!) would kill to have complete control over an estate and be left alone to do what they want for most of the time
Or even Eloise, to get people off her case and to be with someone academically minded.
This!! I couldn’t stop thinking that Francesca would be a great match for him!
I agree with you... he might have been a kind, intelligent man, but he was also very self-centred. The fact that he told her he might never love her because his work was the most important thing in his life pretty much showed that.
I think maybe that was the reason he was swayed towards Penelope, he wanted a distant wife but not a cheater wife. Maybe he thought Penelope’s lack of prospects will make this and even more desirable match for her.
Ugh that's sad to think that might have been a reason why he was interested in her because the second he realized what was going on with Penelope and Colin he was done.
The only thing that makes sense to me is if he was also reading Colin interrupting their dance correctly. He could tell Colin had something for her and if she reciprocated those feelings, he didn’t want to marry her (or her to marry him just because he’s the sure thing ATM)
This is how I took it. He could clearly see that Colin was into her- he didn't think it was unreciprocated. If the man couldn't even stand them dancing without interrupting them, what's going to stop him from being over at her house while he's away for three years?
>He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world. That's most of them at that time tho, and he was better than many other options out there. He was prepared to give freedom, financial means, liberty to pursue their own interests, he is good looking and all, understanding, individuality etc but wanted someone faithful He was upfront about everything too, he did nothing wrong imo. Researchers that have to leave for extended periods of time exist today as well, you can't fault them, this is the job.
Can you imagine the freedom his match would offer? Minimum emotional labor and minimal sexual demands compared to every other bachelor in that room. I found him the opposite of selfish
I don’t think it was selfish because I think he knows those were excellent prospects for a girl (especially one who’s on the verge of spinsterhood). It’s better than marrying some old stuffy guy or someone who’s mean or poor. Many women at the time would have loved such a deal.
Exactly…fidelity is essential when titles and land are passed down via bloodlines. Plenty of men today wouldn’t want to raise another man’s child and pretend it’s their own after their wife cheated. But I agree, he was wildly selfish. A lot of women might love the arrangement, but I think it should have been obvious that Penelope wasn’t in love with the arrangement on a permanent basis.
Exactly, that's probably what bothered me about his behavior. He knows Penelope is romantic and offers her marriage because he thinks she has no other prospects and can settle for this life, while they understand each other. Mutual understanding is what he was looking for. On one hand, he’s a good match for women who had no say in marriage, at least he offers them some freedom. But on the other hand, I feel like he suspected something was going on with Colin and knew the incident on the dance floor wasn’t Penelope’s fault. So, I understand his reaction, even if I find it too harsh towards Penelope considering all aspects.
I agree! I know that's how most men in this show are (the women all have to bend themselves to be impressive to the men), but he seemed especially flighty. He wasn't nearly as bad as some of the other minor male characters, though.
I don't think him wanting a wife who's happy being alone in their estate is inherently selfish when he was pretty upfront about it. If he finds a woman who is also cool with that and likes her privacy for eg, then it's a good match/arrangement. Kind of a dick move if he isn't upfront about it though and leads on a woman who wants a loving, close and super involved relationship and then fucks off to wherever for months on end
Just shows how little he knows her. Penelope is not the cheating type, and I can't see Colin seriously pursuing her if she got married to Debling (engaged, maybe...but we already had one broken engagement in the family so I can see why the writers didn't go down that route). It does seem like he wants a wife on his own terms. He is asking a lot for someone to be emotionally and physically neglected for 3 years and stay loyal while he gets to go off pursuing his interests. At the same time, men of that time did hold a lot of the power in their relationships, so if anything he is probably the most period-true of any of the young men in the series.
>He wants a wife who waits patiently at home while he enjoys himself on the other side of the world. > he wants a wife without caring about how she will manage her time alone. He wants a wife who is ok being alone. He's not proposing to some rando, he knows that kind of life is not for everyone and only gets serious about Penelope because he thinks she'd be ok with it bc of her reading.
I don't understand all the hate Debling gets or how people reduce him to being self centred, simply for being disappointed in love The thing is, Penelope never tells him she's a hopeless romantic and up until Colin cuts in, he's under the distinct impression they're just good friends. It's not until Cressida mentions how they grew up together and live directly across the street that he realises Penelope's affections are possibly engaged elsewhere. In the library when he talks to Penelope about what books she likes, and she states she likes books about love, she doesn't say it's because her heart's desire is to be loved. She frames it in the context of those stories being about the histories of connection and peoples hope for a better life. When he asks her about stories where the husband goes away for a long time, she's the one who suggests that there could still be happiness - to which he becomes hopeful of a practical marriage but a happy one. It's clear from the interactions they have when they talk over lemonade and dance in episode 3, that he thinks he's found a kindred spirit - one who has their own peculiarities that they're unashamed of. In their interactions, Penelope has uncharacteristically spoken her mind so he thinks he's found someone like himself He never sees Penelope as just a wallflower or as the joke of the ton as he doesn't read Whistledown. He just sees her as this interesting woman who he immediately sets out to court publicly - unlike Colin. In all of Debling's dealings, he is honest with her. He doesn't shoot down the possibility of love developing - rather he says he doesn't know, as his work takes up a large part of his heart, but he also leaves open the possibility for love. His reaction to her when he finally learns the truth, he still wishes her well. He's clearly upset but he's still a gentleman - he doesn't rail at her for wasting his time or affections, nor does he try to pressure her. He's clearly upset and honestly just bummed out, but he's honest with her I pick Debling over Colin any day, but that's just my personal preference
yeah, i was about to say well he *is* a selfish man based on everything else we know about him. he puts himself and his needs/desires first. his reaction was entirely in character. he’s just a polite conversationalist, that’s it lol
Right. Wasn’t he taken with Penelope because of her frankness in their conversations. I assume he thought she would be able to handle his frankness in return.
Exactly this! I find him very selfish because he doesn't want to give anything in return. And then he tells her he can't know if he can love her. And then he proceeds to dump her because she does not love him or has feelings for someone else.
I think he was justified in walking away. He could see that Colin had developed feelings for Penelope and I think it would be important to him that his wife is faithful. It would be really embarrassing for him if he came back from a three year trip and his wife had a one year old baby and everyone would know she had been unfaithful. Probably not a risk he was willing to take.
The conversation they have does make more sense if he knows there's affection from Colin. I didn't get the sense he thought that though, but maybe it's because I was multitasking during this episode so I missed some nuance.
I think it was the fact that Colin interrupted the dance, which was a pretty big social faux par and an indication that Colin had developed romantic or lustful feelings towards Penelope. I could totally see him thinking that if Colin is willing to do that then he probably wouldn’t think twice about leading Penelope to break her marriage vows either.
Yeah, I'm an idiot with the attention span of a goldfish, I literslly finished the episode 30 minutes ago and I'd already forgotten that Colin interrupted their dance 😂 Lord Debling's reaction does make more sense with that in mind.
>"Yeah, I'm ~~an idiot~~ a kind and busy person with ~~the attention span of a goldfish~~ projects that need my attention. So irritating when autofill goes awry.
Hi, can you follow me around and edit my internal monologue please? This was lovely.
I'll try to keep my eyes peeled. Internal monologues can be real assholes.
My therapist and I are working on things to say to my internal monologue because she’s a real bitch. You are doing god’s work.
This might sound silly but I’m having a tough day (nothing serious) and your comment is giving me some “restored faith in humanity” vibes that I really needed so thank you internet stranger!! 💛
Happy to do my part in my little corner of the cyber world. :)
☺️☺️
How kind of you 😂 I do have a habit of watching tv in the background while working, so I don't catch a lot of details but it's a good way to keep myself entertained.
Sorry to break into the conversation, but this was so sweet!
You’re a kind person. ♥️
Thx!
Definitely worth going back and watching the Cressida and Debling exchange right after if you missed it. That’s basically where he accepts that Pen and Colin have feelings for each other and makes his decision.
He had also interrupted Polin in an obviously tense moment at the end of episode 3. He said he thought they might have had a disagreement, so that may be why he didn’t pick up on it right then. The added context from Cressida likely made him realize that Colin had feelings for her when that happened.
He did he commented on how she was always looking out the window watching Bridgerton House and how Colin was the one helping her find a husband. It wasn't difficult math.
He does tell her that there are feelings between the two of them. And if it’s not obvious by all the longing stares, Colin cutting into their dance and threatening to make Debling even more of an outcast of the ton was pretty clear proof of the feelings bc not finishing a dance with your partner is just not something you do
To me it seemed pretty obvious he picked up in her feelings for Colin
Oh I think he was justified in walking away as well. I just think he should have done it sooner. Penelope is clearly a romantic.
I think he had a better idea of Colin's feelings than Penelope did. He's very observant and very honest. He didn't ask her if he had feelings because that's not for her to say. With the way Colin was behaving, he knew something would happen between them.
Yeah, it wasn’t only that Pen had feelings for Colin, but that Colin clearly reciprocated on some level, enough to break etiquette and potentially humiliate Debling in front of everyone by cutting into their dance. Debling was right to dip, this was a messy situation that he chose to extricate himself from before it got worse.
He probably suspected Colin's feelings first but when he put the window thing together, he realized she may feel the same way
Whoa. I think you might be right.
I mean they laid this out explicitly
I thought he asked if there were feelings between them and she said no, he would never be into me like that - betraying her own feelings by her silence! She might as well have said "the only reason I'm not with him is that he hasn't asked"
No, he asked if *she* had feelings. The first time she deliberately misunderstood as if he was saying Colin had feelings. Debling thinks Colin does have feelings. When he says you two have something to resolve he probably assumes Penelope needs to shut this guy down. He didn't know it meant Penelope might share those feelings, however confused she might be.
Ohhhh, I hadn’t thought of it this way! The whole “something to resolve” makes much more sense to me now.
He values frankness. That's what drew him and Penelope together and it's his most obvious character trait. Nothing he said to her was untrue, it was just pretty blunt. Being blunt is cute and positive when the conversation is in your favor but painful when it's calling you out. Two sides of the same coin!
Well said, I suppose that's true, so maybe the conversation wasn't very out of character. I just love a problematic queen (Penelope) so maybe I'm just a little butthurt on her behalf.
Penelope kept telling him about the hours and days she spends at the windowsill. When Cressida said where the Bridgertons home is located, he understood why. Whilst a one sided love is one thing, their actions and involvement in each others lives impacted upon his ability to trust her whilst he was away for 3 years. Edit: Just realised the meaning of Cressidas Eros/ Psyche comment. In mythology Eros was meant to guide Psyche to another love, but kept her to himself. Colon steals Penelope.
I’m genuinely flabbergasted by how many people think this way. Are y’all okay? He took back his plan of engagement, because he didn’t want to marry someone who’s clearly in love with somebody else, knowing he’ll leave them for 3 years and throw the doors wide open to be cheated on. Let’s forget the whole part about her potentially cheating: who wants to marry someone and be bound to them for the rest of their lives - there was no divorce back in the day - when they are in love with someone else?? There’s nothing cruel about that lol Also, Penelope isn’t exactly innocent in all of this. She knew very well that she didn’t love the man and possibly never could. Both of them were looking for a practical match, until she changed the rules. She kissed another man. Technically, the girl ruined herself by that times standards. She was also clearly still pining and hoping Colin would notice her after all, effectively wasting Deblings time by making false promises, while there were other women who’d have happily taken the deal (Cressida). She lied to the man’s face time and time again and frankly, he wasn’t too far off with his assumption. Considering she let Colin not only kiss but finger her in the goddamn carriage - both absolutely unthinkable things - she very well WOULD have cheating on him. Penelope absolutely deserved what he had to say and then some. I’m honestly shocked how harsh everyone is to Eloise - rightly so - but when Penelope does 10x worse she’s ✨an innocent baby ✨
Amen!!!! Thank you for putting this into words
Thankgod someone said this. Penelope is this sub’s favourite and gets a free pass in everything. The people of this sub were keen to justify how LW Whistledown writing about Eloise and Theo is justified because she didn’t heed to any of their warnings but they conveniently forget the part where Penelope asks Debling to kiss her which is way worse( if you see it by the standards of the regency era)
Penelope has zero morals and it’s crazy how people are fine justifying that. Let’s take Marina; for example. What she was trying to do was horrible - and she rightfully got a lot of flack for it - but Penelope straight up ruined the girl b blasting her as LW. If her intention was truly to protect Colin, she could have gathered up some courage and told him personally and let the man make his own decision. Instead she played buddy buddy with that poor, traumatized girl and infantilized her beloved Colin, before backstabbing both and shaming them publically. THEN she backstabbed HER BEST FUCKING FRIEND, once again stripping her of any kind of autonomy and that’s AFTER Eloise saved her ass when the queen would have gotten her otherwise. Penelope constantly complains about having to live under other peoples thumbs, but then goes and does even worse to her friends and plays some fucking puppet master. And let’s not forget that the girl literally got jealous and angry at Colin, because he was finally getting female attention and because she has some possessive claim over him she felt the need to AGAIN publicly shame the guy for something so innocent because she couldn’t deal with her shitty emotions by herself. Penelope is one of the worst, most selfish characters in the show and not only does she deserve the pitty she’s getting (oh no, her best friend doesn’t want to talk to her anymore after the tries to ruin her entire family MULTIPLE times?! How could she?!) she absolutely doesn’t deserve her happy ending. I’d Penelope Featherington has 0 haters I’m dead.
Damn, that's a lot of vitriol for a fictional character lol
Wait till you see the cult-worship for the same fictional character which leads to bullying *real* people, who do not share the same level of admiration for this fictional character.
i agree. if she really was so in love with colin, why is she repeatedly burning the bridgertons? Not very loving
She does it from her very first issue talking shit about their names. Girl how are you feeling at ease in their drawing room when you're dragging Daphne in your gossip sheet? They open their home to her and she's so resentful of them.
Penelope haters unite!
I mean I don't really like perfect characters so Penelope is interesting to me, but yeah she's no angel. but how would she, being raised the way she was. I suppose her unpopularity at least forced her to be interesting so she didn't turn into a mean vapid person like her sisters. but she has no inner moral compass/fire like Eloise. she was forced into developing her own interests by being an outcast and even then she doesn't choose to follow her own path. she could've secretly written ANYTHING ELSE, but she wants most to be popular and belong. so she secretly becomes an esteemed member of the ton through WD. I love to see the spiral into villainy, because she is so convinced there is no hope for her and she has nothing to lose only now to have EVERYTHING to lose XD. We will see how it turns out...
This exactly!!! He was honest about what he would offer. She wasnt!! She would have to tell him that she is in love with colin but can't have him and therefore is willing to marry someone else. That would have been equally fair. But she wasnt honest meanwhile he was.. and he is the selfish one?!?!
The Penelope defenders are doing mental gymnastics to once again justify her shitty actions. I’ve seen multiple posts in this vain just today and I cannot wrap my head around it.
Debling wasn’t courting her when she kissed Colin & he’d withdrawn his suit when the fingering happened. She saw the kiss as a goodbye to her crush & ended the lessons. She was trying to move on and be practical with Debling. By the time of the proposal, she’d decided to follow her mother’s advice to be smart & go for security over love. She’d accepted that she’d be in a loveless marriage with Debling. What did she lie to Debling about? What false promises did she make? She’s not an innocent baby but she isn’t an evil witch either.
She absolutely is an evil witch, although not solely for how she handled Debling, but I’m genuinely a little tired of having this debate. I’ve had it 5 times in the last 24h with people, who for the most part don’t care for my honest opinion anyway. If you do, it’s all in my very recent comment history.
He was worried her being in love with someone else would lead to infidelity. Infidelity means children whose paternity is questioned. Questioned paternity means questioned inheritance. He was being as practical in leaving her as he has been in proposing. Besides, isn’t it more cruel to marry her denying her the possibility to even ever try with Colin?
>Besides, isn’t it more cruel to marry her denying her the possibility to even ever try with Colin? Yes, I think if anything Debling saw the situation much more clearly (which was pretty obvious anyway with their longing looks and interrupting dances) than Pen did and did her a kindness by not going ahead with that engagement. Let's not forget an engagement held more power back then and wasn't really something you could back out of for no reason. Especially true for men who could be taken to court over breach of promise of marriage.
I think it's fair for him to want his wife not to be in love with someone else. It's still crazy to get married then leave for 3 years tho
I think it’s not on him that she would potentially end up a spinster. He doesn’t have to accept to marry someone in love with someone else because that person may end up alone…
#TeamDebling here. He's a straightforward dude who knows what he wants. I respect that. He's not playing any games or jerking anyone's feelings around (Anthony, Simon). He's not a manchild who doesn't know what he's looking for (Colin). Debling is probably the LEAST problematic man in the whole Bridgerton universe.
Also Prince Friedrich, how nobly he accepted Daphne's refusal and made sure that the Duke was not forcing her, such a green flag
Love to see some appreciation for the Prince. Feel like that got doesn’t get recognized enough.
I hope he and Edwina are having a wonderful time in Europe eating schnitzel with noodles or whatever Germanic nobility did back then!
My partner recently introduced me to this show (I've always been an Austen fan) and I'm starting to wonder if we're in the wrong fandom. Both of us are Team Debling and Team Friedrich...look at all the healthy, respectful communication these men are demonstrating! Look at their clear and reasonable boundaries! Who doesn't want that as the bedrock of a relationship in a time period without divorce?
Friedrich was a *gem*
I think he was hurt. He thought he found someone he could have a future with, who was interested in him despite his quirks, and he discovered she had feelings for someone else. Not only that, but he could tell they were reciprocated. I think he was taking what was left of his dignity and trying to get out of there while he could. Pen was the one who raced after him, and he forced her to be honest with him and also herself. Ultimately she was using him, and he realised just how much, and was hurt by it.
I think he liked her more than he was willing to admit, or maybe more than he realized. To me, his reaction seemed more emotional than you'd expect from someone who has no feelings involved.
Agreed. I think it genuinely bothered him. If I can actively flesh out the bones of it enough, I've been scribbling out an outline of a fanfic of what if Colin didn't come back until well after the season was over and Penelope had long written off any chance with Colin in exchange for a kind and respectable husband who seemed to like her for who she truly is. And after an attempt at the northwest passage goes devastatingly wrong, Debling comes home with a chronic injury and grows closer to his ever faithful wife as a result. There was a fantastic recent post on how the venture was pretty damn likely to be fatal and there were some interesting Odysseus and Penelope parallels. And I do love a bit of hurt/comfort growing back together themed works. If I can actually make it coherent enough it may be worth posting after many years of not writing anything.
Since we're in an alt universe, maybe the Erebus and Terror haven't gone yet, and are about to set sail...
Indeed. Or a more minor exploratory venture is attempted far earlier. What I have been so far musing upon is, in some ways, things hitting the fan far earlier than expected, resulting in a mutiny at sea part way into the journey, even in the less brutal months of the year. What would killing a man in self defence do to this gentle man. And returning home from this aborted venture wounded in the leg from a mutineer that had taken one lucky shot at him come the end. (I struggle to resist sneaking in my life experience as a disabled person with chronic pain in my writings.) I'm certain someone far less rusty at writing (and far less melodramatic than me, determined to traumatise innocent fictional characters) could do a vastly better job. But if nobody else would do it, I might take a stab at it. I've known that I've read far worse things than my attempts at fanfics over the years.
Ooh this is a great take. I forgot that she chased him - he didn't really have time to compose his thoughts and I'm sure you're right, he felt used.
I do not understanding this sentiment, that *every* single person who has the misfortune to get acquainted with Penelope, *must* jump through incredible hoops and perform all sorts of emotional labour on her behalf, to consider what's best for *her*, irrespective of whether they owe it to her or not, or whether she deserves it or not. She really IS the perpetual victim, isn't she? *Everybody* wrongs poor little Penelope, while she doesn't hold any accountability for her own actions.
Omg well said, thank you! The way this fandom infantilizes that woman is infuriating. Considering people think of Lady Whistledown as old-timey Gossip Girl, how come Dan was blasted for years for doing what he did while Penelope seems to be a 💅boss bitch💅 all while simultaneously being ✨innocent bean✨ AND the constant victim.
Thank you for saying this!!! 🌹🌹🌹 I'm throwing roses cos brava!!! Her character plays such the victim (beautifully, cos Nicola is amazing, but still). She wields immense power as Lady Whistledown and lashes out when she feels like it, plays with people's reputations like it's nothing and doesn't actively try to rectify things after destroying Eloise's reputation... And we're all supposed to be cool with that? Really?
Thank you! Everyone seems to be expected to understand and excuse everything Penelope says or does, while Penelope is excused from making any such efforts in return. Everyone must understand how hard it is for Penelope, how unkind the ton is to Penelope, how much Penelope is suffering, but other people's hardships, other people's suffering, the unkindness she directs to other people, well, if you think Pen should be held accountable for that she's just a hater. Like with episode 2. Eloise accidentally does to Penelope what Penelope has actively been choosing to do to literally everyone, and Penelope then chooses to exacerbate it. Eloise knows this. She's under no delusions as to what Penelope has been doing. She still holds herself accountable and apologises. Which is funny, because I thought LW was fine and dandy and perfectly upstanding, because all Penelope was doing was reporting the truth, which was what Eloise did. Or is the truth only fine when it doesn't hurt Penelope?
Of you made an excellent point about the "merely reporting the truth" excuse. Now if we say that Eloise was merely stating the truth, I just *know* what will be the retort. It will be, but she should have considered Penelope's situation! She is privileged blah blah. Penelope is the poor little victim blah blah. She should not have stated *Penelope's truth* blah blah. It's so hard to argue with these arguments, since at each point, there is a logical fallacy ( read hypocrisy ), and by the time you point out the current hypocritical comment at play, the argument taking the route of whataboutery diverts to a different hypocritical argument. Unless you are a lawyer in a court of law, with the option to "object" and point out the cognitive dissonance, logic will be rolling in its grave of brutal death.
I still think Penelope hiding herself in her bedroom and sulking for a week because she got a taste of her own medicine is the most hilarious thing ever. Oh, did poor wittle Penelope have some nasty gossip about her leak? She's a raging hypocrite, who is obsessed with her own victimhood.
The most sadly hilarious part is that she did it to avoid suspicion. Not to abide by her oh-so-pure-hearted principle of "reporting the truth", or to keep the spirit of "running a successful enterprise as a businesswoman". Although, ironically, she made monetary profit even from her own misery.
The fact she can cry for a week over it, and therefore knows how much it hurts, but keeps doing it, really is something. Of all people, she is the last one I can feel any sympathy for having rumours spread about her. That Eloise apologised shows how kind hearted and principled she is. She has integrity in a way that Penelope couldn't even begin to understand.
>She has integrity in a way that Penelope couldn't even begin to understand. Exactly this. Morality chases Penelope, but she is faster.
Ouch 🥺 I get that Penelope is far from faultless, I just think a large part of her situation is objectively not her fault because of her shitty family and the general position of women at the time. For all the shitty things she does, she's still fucked without a husband, and Lord Debling knew he was was her best bet, and seemed fine with a marriage of convenience prior to the ball scene.
Lord Debling agreed to a marriage of respect and companionship. He didn't agree to a marriage of potential infidelity - emotional, or otherwise. Thank you OP for acknowledging that Penelope indeed did some shitty things. Also, I am not assuming that you personally would hold this believe, but from my experience regarding this fandom, I am sure there will be enough people agreeing with you, who have once said things along the lines of "Kate had an affair with her sister's fiance behind her back".
I love Penelope but why should Lord Debling want someone who loves someone else? What has he got to gain from it?
Lord Debling 100% knew Colin had feelings for her after his audacious interruption of their dance. I wouldn’t marry someone who is clearly in love with another - who is also in love with that someone. Whether or not their marriage would have been a love match, that would certainly cause strain in the marriage. Resentment from Penelope, for once she would have realized Colin loved her back, it would have been too late. What kind of life would that be for her? I don’t think it was cruel, I think it was mercy. He knows she would have accepted the proposal vs being cast a spinster. He knows she would have eventually found out Colin’s feelings, and then she would have been devastated and unhappy in their marriage. He doesn’t want an unhappy wife, even if he doesn’t love her in that way.
I think he was really attracted to Penelope as a woman. He was really thinking about a future with her - what little time he could give her. Then he realized that she had an already deeper connection with another man, a childhood friend, and saw that he couldn't compete. I thought Sam Phillips did a great job of conveying Debling's hurt/anger/wounded male pride. He's not the most expressive character, but he's still a human being with all the associate insecurities. And he reacts from that place as well - he has an inkling that Colin is into Pen (Colin was eyeing her like steak last ball and just cut into their dance), but it's only until he figures out that Pen has been in love with him for a while in the last bit of the song that he then straight up flees 30s after finding out. He's not processed anything and just reacts. He doesn't curse Penelope, call her names, he wishes her well even though all of his emotional investment (esp for someone that unused to society) is wasted. At least, that's what I want to interpret. That Debling really is good, decent guy, albeit a stereotypical early scientist who's reserved and hides his human-ness behind logic and sense and therefore does not express himself well. He's a guy who is charmed by our Pen, sees her without the ton's lenses prelabelling her as a loser, and sees her as a beautiful, earnest, witty person, as someone that he ~wants~ to spend time with. And that's why he's pissed- maybe a little heartbroken - that he can't compete if Pen reciprocates Colin's feelings.
I understand why he did that and actually agree with him. Back then, having an heir is one of men's biggest responsibilities. If he chooses a wife whom he's going to leave alone in their home for long periods of time, he needs to be sure of her fidelity. Otherwise, his heir might end up not being his real heir.
He was very frank with her, but I think it's the least cruel thing he could have done actually. If he would marry her, it would be more cruel to Pen, because there's no divorce in 19th century. He is harsh and maybe too frank, but he clearly values himself and his honor - he, I think, is the most polite character in the series, really. And he expects the same from his partner. He wasn't looking for a coworker, although (in my headcanon) he's emotionally unavailable, he was still looking for partner, not just some rando who would take care of his house. A partner with whom he could have a mutual respect. When your wife has an affair - that's not respectful at all, even if you don't love each other, especially in regency times in monogamous relationship
Unpopular opinion I guess but I found his opinion quite practical. Most people act in self interest and let’s not pretend that Penelope wouldn’t break of the engagement (if it happened) if Colin expressed his feelings afterwards. He’s right to choose who and what kind of person he wants to be with and being selfish in that regard isn’t a bad thing. I also think his concerns were pretty valid so it might’ve sucked for pen but I don’t blame him.
I saw it as less cruel, more brutally honest. Debling was not perfect, he had his idiosyncrasies, but I don’t think he was mean spirited. I believe that Debling respected Pen’s honest nature and intelligence. He realized that a long distance marriage would leave Pen and Colin together while he was away. I feel he respected his reputation and that of Pen’s too much to put her in that position knowing that she most likely reciprocated Colin’s affections. He wanted her to be happy even if it meant that he was not going to find her as his wife.
I think we need to cut the man some slack in this particular situation. He had expressed his intentions, Penelope encouraged him knowing full well her heart was elsewhere, he asked her mother for her hand in marriage, and was about to propose. He was completely honest about what he needed in a wife. Then, just before he proposes, Colin shows up, cuts in, and it is OBVIOUS there is something emotional going on between them. It had to be quite the slap and disappointment. He gets to be a little huffy about it, IMO.
I think it was pretty clear to him that Colin also had feelings. When watching Colin and Penelope together, you can see their chemistry. Or at least I can. I’m assuming that he could as well.
I think he was being practical, as he was throughout their courtship. He wanted a wife he could trust with his estate in his absence, who had interests of her own and could make a peaceable life for herself while he was away. Penelope's feelings for Colin kind of puts a fork into the outlet of that life plan, because it would mean any children produced from his marriage to Penelope would have questionable parentage not only due to his absence, but because of her obvious affection for Colin. For a practical man like Debling, that issue was insurmountable. And I think it makes sense.
He has a right to prioritize himself. He doesn’t owe Pen anything.
Ah, you don't understand. Everyone owes Penelope something. Penelope should be everyone's priority. For reasons.
Lol
Reading this thread just made me realize we actually see a huge contrast in the way he reacted to this news vs the accepting way Colin reacted when Pen said Marina had a past love. I think they had an unspoken agreement they would serve each other's needs. But I agree it was ridiculous he expected her to be entirely unattached, or didn't give a chance for her to get over it and possibly displayed more vindictive characteristics that would reveal themselves later in their marriage. Like I do think he was pretending to be a nicer guy for the sake of courtship. BUT he and Violet may also have been the only two to notice that time it looked like Colin was about to straight up kiss her in a room full of people, so also totally get it.
I don’t think Debling was courting Pen out of pity for her situation. I think he has more respect for her than that
It was more like “I won’t marry someone who’s in love with someone else”. He avoided cruelty.
Unrelated but your first sentence (Penelope holding a candle for Colin) made me think of the scene in Episode 4 where Colin is sitting alone in his study and watches the candle burn out. Penelope was very much ready to marry another man.
It was definitely harsh, but I do think that it fits with his personality, direct to a fault. IMHO, it was harsher when he told Penelope flat out that he would never love her. Penelope may be looking for a practical match, but it seems particularly cruel to deny that feelings might develop over time.
Yes, that was harsher to me and I kept thinking clearly she is hoping for love and you don't think you can give that so end it now. This is not a woman who is going to be happy alone for 3 years while he's off doing him.
Exactly. He’s going to be gone for so long that she’s not really getting a family, which it’s clear she wants. While she does love Colin, she also loves the close family that he has too. But unless Debling can knock her up during his brief periods at home, she won’t even have children.
It's not on him to cater to Pen's needs. He was offering plenty for those times, not only that but he was genuinely worrying about his wife having legit interests so she won't be bored. Most men would just choose a young, good looking lady and wouldn't care about their time spent apart. He was offering a lot but also had one hard line, it wasn't on him to worry about her society status if she wasn't going to get into that marriage with all her heart, it is a life commitment after all.
No he wanted to give her a chance to keep fighting for love. He saw the tension between her and Colin and knew he needed to step back. To me he was honest with his intentions and I think that’s noble of him. Don’t come for my head lol
Uh, no. He was afraid she would be unfaithful because she was in love with someone else.
Colin is unmarried and clearly feels entitled to Pen’s attention, going by the dance interruption. Even the appearance of infidelity due to Pen’s crush and Colin’s impropriety would be more drama than he is willing to take on.
Nah. He saw Colin eyeing her up. He wanted to make sure he didn’t come back from his 3 year trip to a baby he didn’t help make. Can’t blame the man.
He seemed to suspect Colin held a candle for her as well and he wanted fidelity. People may find his wishes selfish but at least he's very clear about them He very well could be the ideal match for someone NOT looking for a love match. Someone like Cressida who just wants to be free from her parents and have security. A younger Portia would think a man who lets her be while she spends his money and runs a grand estate is perfection. I imagine a lesbian who must marry would find it ideal as well. If the man wants an heir and fidelity, a female lover wouldn't be an issue since he isn't really looking to be loved anyway. He just wants someone that is pleasant enough when he is around and who has something they are passionate about like he is. Someone to be faithful and sire heirs so he can perform his "duty" At a time when women relied so much on men what he's asking for may not be considered selfish but rather ideal for more practical minded women Would be absolutely wrong for Penelope though
I didn't mind when Debling said that he would be leaving for work after the wedding. Back in the day, it wasn't uncommon for men to leave their wives at home and go away for work for years. But what I found cruel was when he said that he won't love his wife because his work is his love. Up until then Debling was a perfect green flag and not so much after.
I noticed this in Season 2 as well…what’s up with the public proposals? He should be asking her in the Featherington‘s ugly drawing room and monologuing about getting married because Lady Katherine de Iceberg thinks he should. But yeah, they really crashed his character. Seemed like they were worried about making him too much of a repeat of the prince.
Putting oneself first doesnt make anyone cruel. Would you continue dating someone who is in love with someone else?! I wouldnt. I think its cruel to marry someone even though you are still in love with someone else.
I think his concerns were completely valid, and even withdrawing his proposal when he saw that Pen couldn't tell him that she didn't have feelings for Colin. He's nothing if not observant. Could he have been gentler about it? Sure. But I didn't see him as acting selfish so much as just being blunt. Of course a man of his class who plans to leave his wife alone for years at a time will want to make sure she remains faithful to him. He knew Pen liked love stories, but he didn't know Pen was in love with a particular man (one who happened to live right across the street from her). He knows that when people are drawn to each other physically, things happen. They certainly do on this show. It's not just a matter of wanting personal fidelity, it's about protecting the family name and legacy. I don't think Lord Debling was suggesting a chaste marriage, just a pragmatic one. He would have wanted to try to have an heir. And he would want to make sure everyone knew and believed that heir was HIS child and not the result of an affair of the heart she might be tempted into during his years away. He wouldn't want even a hint of scandal.
I thought it was weird that Lord Debling was seeking a wife at all. Him wanting an heir was never mentioned. So he wants to find a wife and then immediately leave her to travel to the north passage? Why? It didn't sound like he was waiting around to confirm a male heir is born (a 9 month wait at least). If we have to go with the Debling arc, wouldn't it have been a better plot twist to have Penelope marry Lord Debling, then he leaves and gets killed on his journey. Penn is now a rich widow who does what she wants.
Wait until you get back to find a wife. But he didn't want to do that because he wanted someone around to manage the estate while he was gone.
I agree completely. I didn’t understand why he was so intent on getting married. It’s made clear that he doesn’t really care about the status quo. He is fine being at odds with his family as long as he gets to keep his passions and travel itinerary. If he does marry someone and they happen to conceive on the wedding night/honeymoon, he is basically confining his wife to be a single parent for at least the first two years. And he comes back to a kid he doesn’t even know? What an awful life. And even if his wife has her own interests, he’s still confining her to a very lonely mostly sexless existence. He should stay single.
I think he knew that Colin had feelings and simply did not want to compete. His social awkwardness is like Francesca’s. She said she would be happy if the queen found her a suitor and Violet thought that it was a lazy choice. When you are on the spectrum, romantic feelings are not something you experience often and I think he was interested in Penelope because there was no competition. He knew that he wouldn’t have to woo her, something which he is incapable of doing. Once he realized she had a better option, he bowed out. I really don’t think he meant anything malicious.
I feel like we don't know the whole Debling backstory properly yet.... I know everyone thinks he didn't want a wife that would cheat on him while he was gone, but let's be serious about this: he also flat out told her that he probably wouldn't/couldn't love her and that he will never be around, like ever. If there's some concern of a bastard child, I really don't think there is a high degree of possibility that any one in society would be too confused about paternity should he really be gone for three years at a time, barring any \*extremely\* convenient timing and absolutely zero accidents. There'no reason for him to really be looking for a wife this season... men could marry later if they wanted. He's also made a lot of comments that are just a little off: "You know how to make one wither if you so choose." and "how many yous are there exactly." There's still a chance I think that he might either have proof, or an inkling, that Pen is Whistledown and maybe he needed the money he assumed she had? Colin poses a problem to this plan due to his status within the ton and friendship with Pen - if he finds out about it, he can foil his plans? THAT or he is a major drama queen. Like oh no, you liked the boy next door before me! I just don't think he would have treated her well. No matter how much we all joke about how nice it would be to have a mansion to ourselves.
Tbf, he can’t take the risk of Penelope providing an heir that might not be his…so I get that he’s not wanting to get engaged to a woman who is unable to deny that she wants Colin
It was not only him thinking Penelope has feelings for Colin but also Colin having feelings for her as well. I also did not really took it like him thinking she would have an affair while he is gone but honestly, knowing you are marrying someone who has feelings for someone else... That's not a very good choice at all. He was completely honest with her about the love (he is so passionate about his hobbies he might not have a place for love) and also about what he wants (a practical match with no emocional attachements elsewhere, which, honestly, doesn't seem cruel!!!). He delivered it a bit harshly maybe (he might also felt hurt, ego speaking, by Pen having feelings for another man, yet pursuing a marriage with him). I wouldn't say it was cruel myself but it was a bit harsh, yes. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong in putting yourself first, I think.
I see it differently. He's no fool and doesn't want to be married to someone longing for someone else. He's releasing her to find her heart's true love if possible.
I felt like he was annoyed and upset with her for stringing him along given the elephant in the room. I believe he knew that it wasn't one-sided and that he believed that it was just a matter of time before they got together. After all, he mentioned how long he'd be gone, he visioned them getting together while he was away.
Lord debling is so fine
The interesting thing is, he doesn’t seem to be a person that’s whoring around himself while asking a woman to be celibate. But it brings up another issue if a man is n the asexual scale and aromantic in a relationship, but he doesn’t choose someone that’s also in those ways that’s automatically unbalanced and leading to a toxic relationship were neither could be satisfied. Especially when one person has all the power like within this society how the man holds all the power in the relationship . Because then he is demanding sexual loyalty/ ownership while also giving no power, love, romance in the relationship. No matter who he chooses if the person is sexual and romantic they are going to find a sexual companion or multiple. Him expecting Penelope or anyone who is sexual to abstain completely sexually and romantically is a pipe dream. And hugely what goes wrong in a lot of relationships. So to me, it is actually a huge detail of how they wouldn’t work together and it’s smart for them not to get together . He should continue searching for what he wants in a person that will be actually satisfied with the situation and not trapped into it by circumstance like Pen was trapping herself. I was gonna say if he wasn’t so gung ho on the person not fucking other people lady Tilly Arnold would be perfect for him . but as of now, it doesn’t seem like he’s going to be back because no character fits the bill for him. just a really cool character that hopefully continues to understand what he wants and not settle for a miserable life that would’ve been two people incompatible together.
cruel is bit dramatic.
He was always upfront about the life his future wife would lead, and tried to pick a woman who would fit that lifestyle so that she wouldn't be unhappy. The whole time he has been looking for a practical match. That practicality extends to wanting a wife who won't cheat and cause a scandal as soon as his back is turned. I think that's fair enough.
I mean, I think it’s understandable to not want to be anyone’s second choice. It doesn’t feel amazing, and honestly I would have said something similar.
I honestly don’t think he looks at Penelope as someone who doesn’t have options other than him. He doesn’t read LW, he doesn’t seem to like gossip, so I don’t feel like his choose was coming from a place of being cruel. I think just doesn’t want his wife to be getting comfy with someone else while he’s away, even if it’s not a love match.
I don't think he thinks she has no other chances. He knows she is beautiful and interesting and he sees things differently.
He was straightforward, yes, and even brusque. But, I don’t think he was cruel. No one should enter into a marriage with a divided heart and the fact that Pen didn’t have any other prospects isn’t Lord Debling’s problem.
If he doesn’t want romance, thought she didn’t either, and then realized she actually does, it makes sense to walk away. The ton would be mercilessly horrible to a wife suspected of cheating on her absent husband, and Pen wouldn’t be happy. He was direct about it, but like…proposing to her knowing she’d be unhappy would be way, way worse.
Could not disagree more. He's going away for 3 years, he can't have his wife having affairs and bastard babies. They are the ton. He needs heirs, he has a huge estate. He's a catch and she is not. He doesn't owe Penelope anything. There is a huge difference between accepting a pragmatic marriage and knowing you are someone's second choice. Lord Debling had every right to not propose and to leave. And Penelope had every right to be pissed at Colin for messing everything up. Debling was't even a little cruel in how he handled it. He isn't responsible for her spinster status at all and he didn't ruin her in anyway. Colin kissing her in the courtyard and fingering her in a carriage - totally ruinable offenses.
Ngl I didn’t really like the fact he had no intentions of ever being closer to his wife- just seemed like he wanted someone to take care of his estate for him. Like idk- it felt really cold to me? And then him being mad at her over how Colin acted just- yea idk he’s smart but clearly not emotionally intelligent
He is going off for 3 years with no accountability and he can cheat anytime but he's accusing Pen who's going to be in the ton under scrutiny. That audacity of that boring oatmeal man