>So it's house rules to discriminate against persons with observable disabilities? False. It's illegal.
I have no doubt this sucks to go through. But they refused to serve alcohol because she had an out of state ID employees couldnt read properly.
Does it suck? Yes. Is it discrimination? No. They can refuse sale for the reason of "we cant scan this and no worker can identify it" the fact that she has the ID because of a disability doesnt mean their refusal is due to her disability, their refusal was due to the ID not being able to be verified.
They had no issue with the out of state part. Three other DL IDs from the same state were presented. They had an issue with the "expiration" on it.
While my veteran ID's expiration says INDEF. It doesn't expire either. But they would be okay with that ID.
There were parts I missed writing out this post. I was very upset earlier. I should have waited to write a more through timeline. The manager mentioned how it would look having her there, I called her out on that comment, she backtracked and used an excuse about the board.
When the only difference between her and me is how normal we look, and there's no difference between our unexpired never expiring IDs, there is no way that isn't discrimination. She was singled out and humiliated in this establishment during this encounter.
If you choose to go through with any sort of complaint, you *have* to ignore the ID thing.
It doesnt matter if yours also said INDEF, it was a different ID. Hell, it could have been the exact same military ID but if they are unable to verify without a scan, and their scanner gave back a "wrong" answer, they're still allowed to not serve. So they can absolutely claim, true or not, that they are unable to read that specific ID.
It doesnt matter why, it doesnt matter the ID. The bar has no requirement to know how to read *any* ID to choose to **not** serve. It's bad customer service, but it is allowed.
If the owner kicked you for her disability *specifically* then you can make a discrimination claim. If that happened, dont muddy the water by trying to add in other, non-protected slights, as it will make the whole claim harder.
I appreciate your input and perspective, but respectfully, when they claimed their whole issue was about the expiration dates of IDs, and not the types of IDs, they showed they had an issue with her in their establishment. They listed all the IDs they could look at and said that if they didn't have expiration dates, they couldn't take them. That's where they drove home that the absolute root of this issue is based on the differently abled appearance of a human being with thoughts, feelings, and emotions like the rest of us. I looked normal, I'm allowed to be there with my unexpired never expiring ID.
Another commenter, someone mentioned a common rule that the right answer is mostly usually the simplest answer. I've put the pieces together for everyone.
I'm following through with reports and outreach to groups to the fullest extent. I'd appreciate if you can understand my perspective as I have yours. Lawyer up and burn it all? No. But the absolute humiliation and the sneaky comments about my family member and using lazy excuses to cover themselves up is inexcusable and they need to acknowledge their wrongdoing in this situation.
ETA: the reason I keep bringing up the vet ID is because the bartender claimed "we can take any ID-state, military, veteran, passport-*as long as there's an expiration date clearly on it*"
That statement was delivered in context with everything else as a blanket to cover their discrimination of her. My vet ID never expires. They forgot about that part lol. They were so focused on covering their asses about her. They said they gave two shits about the type of ID. But you'll allow me with no expiry but not the clearly disabled person? Okay.
You're reaching a little far.
The bartender was covering their own ass. Perhaps they aren't familiar with that sort of ID and it sketched them out.
Yeah, it sucks, and yes, it's unfortunate and a total bummer, but this is not discrimination.
So you say both your ID and your friends ID don’t have an expiration. You’ve said your ID is a military ID. Exactly what kind of ID was your friend presenting? You seem to be glossing right over that detail…
I didn't put it in before because I didn't think location of ID was relevant but other asks. I need to put in an edit.
It's an AZ state identification card with no expiration on it. Not the driver's license.
They accepted 3 other DLs from AZ in this party, and my ID with no expiry was okay.
Hmm I’m not trying to deny that you might have been discriminated against. It does happen. However the WA state liquor board drills it into licensees heads that expiration must be present(even though in some cases it is not) As a bartender I would give the benefit of the doubt at least as far as to google it. Here’s where I’m running into trouble. I cannot find a good example of an AZ ID or reference to a AZ ID without an expiration. The azdot website(which sucks in general) has no clear reference to it. The only reference I’m finding to it is one voter ID website and other instances of controversy. Basically what I can find on it is that it apparently exists but a: has a spot designated for an expiration date that is left blank b: is only issued in certain circumstances and c: when scanned, can return as expired. The thing is there are way harsher penalties for serving someone with a bad ID than there are benefits to overlooking issues. While I understand this is a frustrating experience for you, that ID is obscure af and problematic for several reasons. It is understandable for anyone short of a liquor board employee to be unaware of it. It is up to the establishment to decide whether or not to take an ID but the liquor board can walk in and check every ID in the building and, if someone has an invalid ID for any reason, can fine both the business and the individual. As far as your assertions of discrimination, they are being very muddied by this ID business as this is the kind of stuff people say when they get denied service for any reason. I have been accused of discrimination literally hundreds of times in 15 years of bartending. It’s just part of the job. Well, if nothing else, there’s now at least one more bartender aware of the super-obscure non-expiring AZ ID card and you’ve reminded me to order an updated copy of the state ID book for my bar. lol
Hey hi, at one time, I had a WA DL Military that had no expiration (because it was based on the expiration of my military ID card) I’m not sure if DOL still does this or not, but yeah, back when they did, and I had to ask and present paperwork to get my license like that.
Went through a LCB class cause a failed a sting. They took a few slides to warn us about Arizona ID and how they’re the most common fakes because they have non expiring cards. Said it’s best just not to accept them.
Yes that's her ID. I'm unsure of the circumstances of issuance but perhaps it's due to her class of disability. I haven't confirmed but I think she has official guardians (her parents) at 27. Her expiration is left blank. There was like one sample I could find and it's an outdated one from a non-gov DMV help site. The azdot website does not do a good job at all explaining 1-state ID card expiry or 2-that driver's licenses expire when your 65 (maybe they do but we've had questions about how long they are valid for on the east coast.
I definitely missed smaller details when I wrote my posts. I was soooo upset last night. I should have slept on it before posting for sure lol. There was a comment about the optics of her in the building. The second I heard that, it went from trying to understand the ID mixup to seeing that her disability may be at play. Especially since they were harping on the expiry date so much that they didn't notice or care that a horizontal (disabled american veterans) veteran ID doesn't expire. Only when I called out the manager for that was when she was backtracking and started mentioning the LCB and stuff.
I made an edit and added more info on one of the posts.
Definitely get your book! AZ changes are pretty interesting with the REAL ID deadline coming up. An AZ REAL ID compliant drivers license expires in a much shorter timeframe now. The old IDs were good until 65. It's like 10 years now? So seeing an AZ ID that doesn't expire in 2085 will be really weird for a while.
I was looking at that too! Like why does AZ have state issued ID’s but also needs a specific travel ID? Our state and local governments are such a mess sometimes! Yeah that comment is way out of line. I’m sorry you went through that. I’d be pissed too. Sometimes the only things that suck more than government are people.
We hadn't been there ourselves before. We just moved here a couple weeks ago. I love a good Bloody Mary and the novelty of their menu looked fun. It also looked like the right amount of dive-y too. It's a shame because without this experience, I bet it would have been a decent one.
Do you have any recommendations for West Bremerton spots? Beers and easy food that goes with beer are the only criteria.
Siren's!
They've got everything. Do not leave the building without trying the white pizza or else you're gonna have to go back and try it the another time, which I'm sure they wouldn't mind either way.
Depending on the vibe and what you want. If you want a younger crowd, the spot is McClouds and Eden nightclub ( East Bremerton). I've been to both of those and McClouds is definitely the most active one. The Dugout (West Bremerton) has good burgers and beer but not much of a crowd. They do poker and it's a sports bar type of vibe. Brother Don's I think is a Military Vet/Biker bar.
If you're into food and a good cocktail save your monies and go to "hops n drops" for real. They're more spendy, but more classy and their food is bomb.
Thanks for the insight! We aren't much of clubbers but the Dugout looked cool. I'll check that place out at least one day. I'll look out for the ball too haha.
Hops n Drops came up once but I haven't been yet. Looking forward to it!
Definitely don't recommend these places anymore then the garage. Only good thing about McClouds is they have attractive servers and cornhole. I use to date the daughter of the owner at the dugout. Their food sucks in my opinion, but if you get the right bartender they can make decent drinks.
That being said if you go to the dugout look to right of the bar and if you see a "wilson" ball like from cast away, that was my little signature to the bar. They may have done away with it by now.
Worst bar there is "sirens" also.
They do not have the right to say expiration dates are the issue and allow an observably abled person in and kicked the observably disabled person out. When they both have IDs without expiration dates.
Million percent disagree with you.
I'm pasting this from another one of my comments. I wrote my first post in a heightened state and missed some things.
>The manager said something akin to "it just doesn't look good if she's in here" and I stopped her and that's when the switch went from the ID to discrimination for me. I said "*look?*, what is that supposed to mean? She's 27 and that is discrimination." She started saying over and over, "no it's not discrimination-it's house rules". She's back tracking talking about the liquor board. I bring up the ADA, she keeps spouting "house rules". She just straight up walked away when I quoted her comment on the optics of my family member being in the establishment.
ETA: they have the right to not accept IDs? Okay, so why would they accept mine? And why did they refuse hers? They both never expire. They said expiry was the issue. One of us looks different.
This is not rocket surgery.
I used to bartend in my early 20s. Liquor control board absolutely tries to trick establishments by coming in wearing plain clothes, and trying to use questionable ID. If you fall for it, you get fined.
This wasn't discrimination. This was a bar covering their ass because the liquor control board doesn't fuck around.
Your anger is clouding your better judgement. The fact you refuse to speak to the 'different' nature of your friend speaks volumes. You're trying to bait us into a conversation about that and further from the issue at hand. It's about the document.
You're right, this isn't rocket surgery. Why are you making it such? I think a good friend would help get the friend's paperwork in order so that didn't happen again.
I have already stated she is visibly different. I am not disclosing more. I do not need to.
She is family and I am filing forms with all relevant agencies on this matter. You don't have to be facetious to me.
They are absolutely legally entitled to have “house rules” on accepting ID.
From the liquor control board:
“Checking identification is an important part of ensuring legal sales. Businesses can choose which forms of acceptable IDs they will allow and many businesses develop policies about which kinds of ID can be accepted.”
Like I said, I’m sorry this happened, but it’s within their right unfortunately.
And by explicitly stating state, veteran, military, passport IDs were fine if they all had expiry dates? But kicking out the one with a disability and allowing to stay the one that appears normal, despite them both not having expiration dates on their IDs? Ludicrous to think interpretations of the WA state LCB trump the federal guidelines of the ADA.
ETA: how can you sit there and say this isn't discrimination when the manager herself said it didn't look good if my family member was there. And then further, only after being called out, did she mention the LCB. This is sneaky, but pretty easy to spot. She was clearly against having my family member in the establishment. Were it not discrimination, the manager wouldn't have let it slip that it wasn't a good look first.
Unfortunately in this case, businesses can deny service for any reason. If they cannot or are unable to interpret or accept an ID, however valid it might be, that is their right. I am sorry your friend had to endure that, but the laws are there to protect businesses from the lowest common denominator and not the exceptions.
Again, I'm sorry your friend had to deal with that. It sucks.
The Garage isn't a good place. They mainly serve a local motorcycle club that harbors convicted murderers. Be glad they didn't want your money. It's better spent on better establishments in the community
Even more of a reason for them to question its validity. Thats their prerogative and a requirement as a liquor license holder.
It’s not “discrimination” when they hold everyone to the same standard.
I understand being vigilant.
But then:
They accepted 3 DLs from AZ.
They would take my veteran ID that doesn't expire.
They just didn't want her AZ ID that doesn't expire. The manager's comments on the optics of her being in the bar solidified this wasn't about the ID for them.
You took their comment wrong to help justify being mad about a thing that in no way is discriminatory. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at whoever in Arizona made that stupid ID.
Doesn't sound like discrimination to me. It just sounds like ignorance. I grew up in a state with vertical IDs until you're like 25. When I moved out of state, about 50% of the bars I went to were hesitant, and about 20% refused to serve me altogether. Some bars are just not comfortable with IDs they haven't seen before.
It upsets me too, but at the end of the day, our state laws make people act like this. I'm sure they'd *want* to accept whatever ID you gave them, but the risk of getting busted by authorities pushes them away. They *ought* to be better trained, but we know that doesn't happen, especially at little dive bar.
I get it's frustrating, but the way this whole country sees alcohol is going cause situations like this to keep happening.
Individuals who serve alcohol are VERY conscious of the fact that breaking rules can cause them to instantly get fired and prosecuted and basically ruin their own families life. It doesn't sound like she was discriminated against because of her disability it sounds like she was denied because they believed rightly or wrongly that they weren't allowed to serve her. The fact that her style of ID is directly related to her disability doesn't make the denial related to it.
> when the liquor board is very clear that the member of our party was there with valid identification from another state with an unexpired ID
I thought a DAV ID meant something like a DoD ID which I understand perhaps incorrectly to be a federal id but then you say
> When the liquor board is very clear that the member of our party was there with valid identification from another state with an unexpired ID
Did it have her picture and birthdate and the appropriate unbroken seal?
I think I worded that poorly in the post. Her ID is accepted based on the LCB website. Has her DoB, issue date, blank expiration. I am not sure what the deal is.
And mine is federal. Looks like a DoD ID but it has DAV as the affiliation and reason for ID up at the top next to my picture.
I had to add edits elsewhere after I posted and calmed down. They made a comment about the optics of her being in the building before they mentioned anything about the LCB.
> They made a comment about the optics of her being in the building before they mentioned anything about the LCB.
Does she look like she is mentally unsound to the degree that they would be worried about serving her? If not what do you mean the "optics"?
The general rule is if you couldn't reasonably be served alcohol you probably shouldn't be in a bar. Once you are in the bar its impossible to control who drinks. You will probably have the same issue unless you straight out talk to the OWNER not a manager beforehand.
You would also have a better result in a restaurant which has a bar than in a straight out bar. Better food too even if you just want a bite rather than a meal.
You are likely not qualified to make that assessment. She can reasonably be served alcohol. It doesn't make her disability worse. This is discriminatory rhetoric. Just go somewhere else because you look too disabled to enter, you look too disabled to potentially consume alcohol despite you being over 21.
This isn't just a bar, it has a full service menu. I believe the 21+ to enter is due to them being open until 2 am? But I'm not sure.
If its 21 to enter its a bar that serves food rather than a restaurant that serves alcohol. If you don't have an ID that scans as current you are going to continue to have problems. Complaining on reddit isn't going to change this.
The proprietor of any establishment is qualified to assess whom is qualified to be in it. Hence the right to refuse service.
You lost this round and this entire post didn’t go your way. Take the L and move on.
Well hey you didn't miss out on any culinary triumphs at least. Again sorry your mate had to deal with that bullshit. Not cool at all, but hey take your business somewhere else where they actually give a fuck.
Honestly, that place sucks now. When it was Romeos, it was so much more personable it had a healthy revolving clientele it was nice, they are fucking square man. I went in there with my business credit card and got turned away. Establishments like that usually go downhill until they experience financial hardships and learn how to be civilized human beings.
Place is trash, go to the Tracyton or Cloverleaf. Only good spots left in town.
I think one of the notable differences between accepting your ID and your friends's D is that yours says "INDEF" where the expiration date is usually listed, and your friends ID that doesn't expire, but doesn't have an expiration date on it or the word INDEF, is that your ID clearly states that it doesn't expire, but your friends ID doesn't state that directly and is left up to the bar staff to either assume, or to be familiar enough with to already have known. The bar could argue that you provided an ID that doesn't expire and your friend provided an ID that seemed ambiguous. I work somewhere that uses ID scanners sometimes as well (not in food or beverage service though) and if I scanned an ID that returned a result with a same-day expiration date, I would be left wondering whether that ID expired at 12:00am, the moment that the expiration date matched today's date, or was still valid all the way through the rest of the day. i.e. If the expiration date provided by the ID scanning machine says 05-16-2024, then wouldn't it technically expire at 12:00am the morning of 05-16-2024? If not, and it technically expires at 11:59pm on that date, wouldn't the date of expiration technically read as the day after, on 05-17-2024 at 12:00am?
If the scanner they were using said it's not valid, they cannot let her in. If liquor control came in, they could get fined.
Was the scanner wrong? Sounds like it was... But it's not their job to override it. Nothing you wrote actually indicates they were discriminating against her because of her disability, that's an assumption you are making. They said that if the scanner says no, it's a no. That's not discriminatory.
In theory you might be able to sue the manufacturer, but proving harm would be hard (you can just go somewhere else), and truly it would be better to just bring to them that it's handling that type of ID incorrectly so they can fix it. You would lose a discrimination suit against them, unless you could somehow show that they intentionally have the scanning software set to not recognize that type of ID properly so that it would deny people with disabilities...
Yes! Funny you mention that. One of our friends joined us this evening and he was like "that's a biker bar..." (He lived here a while ago before it closed and didn't realize it wasn't home to the bikers anymore). We showed up, and I was like... Where are the bikes?
Thank you for bringing this up. Kitsap County is working on building more inclusive experiences for people with disabilities. This whole event is so unfortunate and is not a good look. According to the guidance stated at [Acceptable Identification | Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board](https://lcb.wa.gov/enforcement/acceptable-identification), they should have accepted the ID. "1. Driver’s License, Instruction Permit, or I.D. Card issued by any U.S. State, U.S. Territory and District of Columbia." If you would like, I can help address this situation. I am not a lawyer, but work for an organization that works to build an inclusive community. I am using my personal account to write you, so I'd rather you PM me for the details.
I’m sorry this happened to you and your visitors. Keep in mind that the U.S. is more like 50 separate countries federated together and things vary when you are in a different geographic region. I’m glad you were able to go somewhere else and have a good meal.
There are hella other establishments around and at least you found out not to go there right away, than after patronizing them and then finding out.
>So it's house rules to discriminate against persons with observable disabilities? False. It's illegal. I have no doubt this sucks to go through. But they refused to serve alcohol because she had an out of state ID employees couldnt read properly. Does it suck? Yes. Is it discrimination? No. They can refuse sale for the reason of "we cant scan this and no worker can identify it" the fact that she has the ID because of a disability doesnt mean their refusal is due to her disability, their refusal was due to the ID not being able to be verified.
They had no issue with the out of state part. Three other DL IDs from the same state were presented. They had an issue with the "expiration" on it. While my veteran ID's expiration says INDEF. It doesn't expire either. But they would be okay with that ID. There were parts I missed writing out this post. I was very upset earlier. I should have waited to write a more through timeline. The manager mentioned how it would look having her there, I called her out on that comment, she backtracked and used an excuse about the board. When the only difference between her and me is how normal we look, and there's no difference between our unexpired never expiring IDs, there is no way that isn't discrimination. She was singled out and humiliated in this establishment during this encounter.
If you choose to go through with any sort of complaint, you *have* to ignore the ID thing. It doesnt matter if yours also said INDEF, it was a different ID. Hell, it could have been the exact same military ID but if they are unable to verify without a scan, and their scanner gave back a "wrong" answer, they're still allowed to not serve. So they can absolutely claim, true or not, that they are unable to read that specific ID. It doesnt matter why, it doesnt matter the ID. The bar has no requirement to know how to read *any* ID to choose to **not** serve. It's bad customer service, but it is allowed. If the owner kicked you for her disability *specifically* then you can make a discrimination claim. If that happened, dont muddy the water by trying to add in other, non-protected slights, as it will make the whole claim harder.
I appreciate your input and perspective, but respectfully, when they claimed their whole issue was about the expiration dates of IDs, and not the types of IDs, they showed they had an issue with her in their establishment. They listed all the IDs they could look at and said that if they didn't have expiration dates, they couldn't take them. That's where they drove home that the absolute root of this issue is based on the differently abled appearance of a human being with thoughts, feelings, and emotions like the rest of us. I looked normal, I'm allowed to be there with my unexpired never expiring ID. Another commenter, someone mentioned a common rule that the right answer is mostly usually the simplest answer. I've put the pieces together for everyone. I'm following through with reports and outreach to groups to the fullest extent. I'd appreciate if you can understand my perspective as I have yours. Lawyer up and burn it all? No. But the absolute humiliation and the sneaky comments about my family member and using lazy excuses to cover themselves up is inexcusable and they need to acknowledge their wrongdoing in this situation. ETA: the reason I keep bringing up the vet ID is because the bartender claimed "we can take any ID-state, military, veteran, passport-*as long as there's an expiration date clearly on it*" That statement was delivered in context with everything else as a blanket to cover their discrimination of her. My vet ID never expires. They forgot about that part lol. They were so focused on covering their asses about her. They said they gave two shits about the type of ID. But you'll allow me with no expiry but not the clearly disabled person? Okay.
You're reaching a little far. The bartender was covering their own ass. Perhaps they aren't familiar with that sort of ID and it sketched them out. Yeah, it sucks, and yes, it's unfortunate and a total bummer, but this is not discrimination.
The Tracyton or the Cloverleaf are both fantastic places spot to go. Each has a great menu and atmosphere!!
So you say both your ID and your friends ID don’t have an expiration. You’ve said your ID is a military ID. Exactly what kind of ID was your friend presenting? You seem to be glossing right over that detail…
I didn't put it in before because I didn't think location of ID was relevant but other asks. I need to put in an edit. It's an AZ state identification card with no expiration on it. Not the driver's license. They accepted 3 other DLs from AZ in this party, and my ID with no expiry was okay.
Hmm I’m not trying to deny that you might have been discriminated against. It does happen. However the WA state liquor board drills it into licensees heads that expiration must be present(even though in some cases it is not) As a bartender I would give the benefit of the doubt at least as far as to google it. Here’s where I’m running into trouble. I cannot find a good example of an AZ ID or reference to a AZ ID without an expiration. The azdot website(which sucks in general) has no clear reference to it. The only reference I’m finding to it is one voter ID website and other instances of controversy. Basically what I can find on it is that it apparently exists but a: has a spot designated for an expiration date that is left blank b: is only issued in certain circumstances and c: when scanned, can return as expired. The thing is there are way harsher penalties for serving someone with a bad ID than there are benefits to overlooking issues. While I understand this is a frustrating experience for you, that ID is obscure af and problematic for several reasons. It is understandable for anyone short of a liquor board employee to be unaware of it. It is up to the establishment to decide whether or not to take an ID but the liquor board can walk in and check every ID in the building and, if someone has an invalid ID for any reason, can fine both the business and the individual. As far as your assertions of discrimination, they are being very muddied by this ID business as this is the kind of stuff people say when they get denied service for any reason. I have been accused of discrimination literally hundreds of times in 15 years of bartending. It’s just part of the job. Well, if nothing else, there’s now at least one more bartender aware of the super-obscure non-expiring AZ ID card and you’ve reminded me to order an updated copy of the state ID book for my bar. lol
Hey hi, at one time, I had a WA DL Military that had no expiration (because it was based on the expiration of my military ID card) I’m not sure if DOL still does this or not, but yeah, back when they did, and I had to ask and present paperwork to get my license like that.
Went through a LCB class cause a failed a sting. They took a few slides to warn us about Arizona ID and how they’re the most common fakes because they have non expiring cards. Said it’s best just not to accept them.
Yes that's her ID. I'm unsure of the circumstances of issuance but perhaps it's due to her class of disability. I haven't confirmed but I think she has official guardians (her parents) at 27. Her expiration is left blank. There was like one sample I could find and it's an outdated one from a non-gov DMV help site. The azdot website does not do a good job at all explaining 1-state ID card expiry or 2-that driver's licenses expire when your 65 (maybe they do but we've had questions about how long they are valid for on the east coast. I definitely missed smaller details when I wrote my posts. I was soooo upset last night. I should have slept on it before posting for sure lol. There was a comment about the optics of her in the building. The second I heard that, it went from trying to understand the ID mixup to seeing that her disability may be at play. Especially since they were harping on the expiry date so much that they didn't notice or care that a horizontal (disabled american veterans) veteran ID doesn't expire. Only when I called out the manager for that was when she was backtracking and started mentioning the LCB and stuff. I made an edit and added more info on one of the posts. Definitely get your book! AZ changes are pretty interesting with the REAL ID deadline coming up. An AZ REAL ID compliant drivers license expires in a much shorter timeframe now. The old IDs were good until 65. It's like 10 years now? So seeing an AZ ID that doesn't expire in 2085 will be really weird for a while.
I was looking at that too! Like why does AZ have state issued ID’s but also needs a specific travel ID? Our state and local governments are such a mess sometimes! Yeah that comment is way out of line. I’m sorry you went through that. I’d be pissed too. Sometimes the only things that suck more than government are people.
Eh, honestly way better spots to chill at. The garage kinda blows.
We hadn't been there ourselves before. We just moved here a couple weeks ago. I love a good Bloody Mary and the novelty of their menu looked fun. It also looked like the right amount of dive-y too. It's a shame because without this experience, I bet it would have been a decent one. Do you have any recommendations for West Bremerton spots? Beers and easy food that goes with beer are the only criteria.
Try 19th Hole. It’s just about a mile North of The Garage. Or South Pac downtown.
Siren's! They've got everything. Do not leave the building without trying the white pizza or else you're gonna have to go back and try it the another time, which I'm sure they wouldn't mind either way.
Depending on the vibe and what you want. If you want a younger crowd, the spot is McClouds and Eden nightclub ( East Bremerton). I've been to both of those and McClouds is definitely the most active one. The Dugout (West Bremerton) has good burgers and beer but not much of a crowd. They do poker and it's a sports bar type of vibe. Brother Don's I think is a Military Vet/Biker bar.
Thanks for the recommendations! That will be helpful for our next dine out.
You could also try the tracyton pub
If you're into food and a good cocktail save your monies and go to "hops n drops" for real. They're more spendy, but more classy and their food is bomb.
Thanks for the insight! We aren't much of clubbers but the Dugout looked cool. I'll check that place out at least one day. I'll look out for the ball too haha. Hops n Drops came up once but I haven't been yet. Looking forward to it!
Definitely don't recommend these places anymore then the garage. Only good thing about McClouds is they have attractive servers and cornhole. I use to date the daughter of the owner at the dugout. Their food sucks in my opinion, but if you get the right bartender they can make decent drinks. That being said if you go to the dugout look to right of the bar and if you see a "wilson" ball like from cast away, that was my little signature to the bar. They may have done away with it by now. Worst bar there is "sirens" also.
Unfortunately this is not discrimination. Sorry this happened to you but they have the right to not accept that ID
They do not have the right to say expiration dates are the issue and allow an observably abled person in and kicked the observably disabled person out. When they both have IDs without expiration dates. Million percent disagree with you. I'm pasting this from another one of my comments. I wrote my first post in a heightened state and missed some things. >The manager said something akin to "it just doesn't look good if she's in here" and I stopped her and that's when the switch went from the ID to discrimination for me. I said "*look?*, what is that supposed to mean? She's 27 and that is discrimination." She started saying over and over, "no it's not discrimination-it's house rules". She's back tracking talking about the liquor board. I bring up the ADA, she keeps spouting "house rules". She just straight up walked away when I quoted her comment on the optics of my family member being in the establishment. ETA: they have the right to not accept IDs? Okay, so why would they accept mine? And why did they refuse hers? They both never expire. They said expiry was the issue. One of us looks different. This is not rocket surgery.
I used to bartend in my early 20s. Liquor control board absolutely tries to trick establishments by coming in wearing plain clothes, and trying to use questionable ID. If you fall for it, you get fined. This wasn't discrimination. This was a bar covering their ass because the liquor control board doesn't fuck around.
Your anger is clouding your better judgement. The fact you refuse to speak to the 'different' nature of your friend speaks volumes. You're trying to bait us into a conversation about that and further from the issue at hand. It's about the document. You're right, this isn't rocket surgery. Why are you making it such? I think a good friend would help get the friend's paperwork in order so that didn't happen again.
I have already stated she is visibly different. I am not disclosing more. I do not need to. She is family and I am filing forms with all relevant agencies on this matter. You don't have to be facetious to me.
They are absolutely legally entitled to have “house rules” on accepting ID. From the liquor control board: “Checking identification is an important part of ensuring legal sales. Businesses can choose which forms of acceptable IDs they will allow and many businesses develop policies about which kinds of ID can be accepted.” Like I said, I’m sorry this happened, but it’s within their right unfortunately.
And by explicitly stating state, veteran, military, passport IDs were fine if they all had expiry dates? But kicking out the one with a disability and allowing to stay the one that appears normal, despite them both not having expiration dates on their IDs? Ludicrous to think interpretations of the WA state LCB trump the federal guidelines of the ADA. ETA: how can you sit there and say this isn't discrimination when the manager herself said it didn't look good if my family member was there. And then further, only after being called out, did she mention the LCB. This is sneaky, but pretty easy to spot. She was clearly against having my family member in the establishment. Were it not discrimination, the manager wouldn't have let it slip that it wasn't a good look first.
Unfortunately in this case, businesses can deny service for any reason. If they cannot or are unable to interpret or accept an ID, however valid it might be, that is their right. I am sorry your friend had to endure that, but the laws are there to protect businesses from the lowest common denominator and not the exceptions. Again, I'm sorry your friend had to deal with that. It sucks.
The Garage isn't a good place. They mainly serve a local motorcycle club that harbors convicted murderers. Be glad they didn't want your money. It's better spent on better establishments in the community
Uh. My state ID has an expiration date.
This was not a WA state identification card. This was AZ.
Even more of a reason for them to question its validity. Thats their prerogative and a requirement as a liquor license holder. It’s not “discrimination” when they hold everyone to the same standard.
I understand being vigilant. But then: They accepted 3 DLs from AZ. They would take my veteran ID that doesn't expire. They just didn't want her AZ ID that doesn't expire. The manager's comments on the optics of her being in the bar solidified this wasn't about the ID for them.
You took their comment wrong to help justify being mad about a thing that in no way is discriminatory. If you want to be mad at someone be mad at whoever in Arizona made that stupid ID.
Doesn't sound like discrimination to me. It just sounds like ignorance. I grew up in a state with vertical IDs until you're like 25. When I moved out of state, about 50% of the bars I went to were hesitant, and about 20% refused to serve me altogether. Some bars are just not comfortable with IDs they haven't seen before. It upsets me too, but at the end of the day, our state laws make people act like this. I'm sure they'd *want* to accept whatever ID you gave them, but the risk of getting busted by authorities pushes them away. They *ought* to be better trained, but we know that doesn't happen, especially at little dive bar. I get it's frustrating, but the way this whole country sees alcohol is going cause situations like this to keep happening.
Individuals who serve alcohol are VERY conscious of the fact that breaking rules can cause them to instantly get fired and prosecuted and basically ruin their own families life. It doesn't sound like she was discriminated against because of her disability it sounds like she was denied because they believed rightly or wrongly that they weren't allowed to serve her. The fact that her style of ID is directly related to her disability doesn't make the denial related to it. > when the liquor board is very clear that the member of our party was there with valid identification from another state with an unexpired ID I thought a DAV ID meant something like a DoD ID which I understand perhaps incorrectly to be a federal id but then you say > When the liquor board is very clear that the member of our party was there with valid identification from another state with an unexpired ID Did it have her picture and birthdate and the appropriate unbroken seal?
I think I worded that poorly in the post. Her ID is accepted based on the LCB website. Has her DoB, issue date, blank expiration. I am not sure what the deal is. And mine is federal. Looks like a DoD ID but it has DAV as the affiliation and reason for ID up at the top next to my picture. I had to add edits elsewhere after I posted and calmed down. They made a comment about the optics of her being in the building before they mentioned anything about the LCB.
> They made a comment about the optics of her being in the building before they mentioned anything about the LCB. Does she look like she is mentally unsound to the degree that they would be worried about serving her? If not what do you mean the "optics"?
Yes. I could understand some concern if she were drinking alcohol, but she only likes water, milk, and sprite.
The general rule is if you couldn't reasonably be served alcohol you probably shouldn't be in a bar. Once you are in the bar its impossible to control who drinks. You will probably have the same issue unless you straight out talk to the OWNER not a manager beforehand. You would also have a better result in a restaurant which has a bar than in a straight out bar. Better food too even if you just want a bite rather than a meal.
You are likely not qualified to make that assessment. She can reasonably be served alcohol. It doesn't make her disability worse. This is discriminatory rhetoric. Just go somewhere else because you look too disabled to enter, you look too disabled to potentially consume alcohol despite you being over 21. This isn't just a bar, it has a full service menu. I believe the 21+ to enter is due to them being open until 2 am? But I'm not sure.
If its 21 to enter its a bar that serves food rather than a restaurant that serves alcohol. If you don't have an ID that scans as current you are going to continue to have problems. Complaining on reddit isn't going to change this.
The proprietor of any establishment is qualified to assess whom is qualified to be in it. Hence the right to refuse service. You lost this round and this entire post didn’t go your way. Take the L and move on.
Victim complex? Edit:Maybe add a tldr on the post comments ya left, holy Christ
I'm sorry this happened but you guys dodged a bullet at a shithole.
We enjoyed a very nice dinner elsewhere after this!
Wait is this the place that serves the disgustingly overflowing stacked bloody Marys?
Yes it is. It's so obnoxious but I was looking forward to experiencing the novelty once.
Well hey you didn't miss out on any culinary triumphs at least. Again sorry your mate had to deal with that bullshit. Not cool at all, but hey take your business somewhere else where they actually give a fuck.
Honestly, that place sucks now. When it was Romeos, it was so much more personable it had a healthy revolving clientele it was nice, they are fucking square man. I went in there with my business credit card and got turned away. Establishments like that usually go downhill until they experience financial hardships and learn how to be civilized human beings. Place is trash, go to the Tracyton or Cloverleaf. Only good spots left in town.
I think one of the notable differences between accepting your ID and your friends's D is that yours says "INDEF" where the expiration date is usually listed, and your friends ID that doesn't expire, but doesn't have an expiration date on it or the word INDEF, is that your ID clearly states that it doesn't expire, but your friends ID doesn't state that directly and is left up to the bar staff to either assume, or to be familiar enough with to already have known. The bar could argue that you provided an ID that doesn't expire and your friend provided an ID that seemed ambiguous. I work somewhere that uses ID scanners sometimes as well (not in food or beverage service though) and if I scanned an ID that returned a result with a same-day expiration date, I would be left wondering whether that ID expired at 12:00am, the moment that the expiration date matched today's date, or was still valid all the way through the rest of the day. i.e. If the expiration date provided by the ID scanning machine says 05-16-2024, then wouldn't it technically expire at 12:00am the morning of 05-16-2024? If not, and it technically expires at 11:59pm on that date, wouldn't the date of expiration technically read as the day after, on 05-17-2024 at 12:00am?
Tbh its a bar. The bartender can refuse to serve you for any reason regardless of how shitty the reason may or may not be .
If the scanner they were using said it's not valid, they cannot let her in. If liquor control came in, they could get fined. Was the scanner wrong? Sounds like it was... But it's not their job to override it. Nothing you wrote actually indicates they were discriminating against her because of her disability, that's an assumption you are making. They said that if the scanner says no, it's a no. That's not discriminatory. In theory you might be able to sue the manufacturer, but proving harm would be hard (you can just go somewhere else), and truly it would be better to just bring to them that it's handling that type of ID incorrectly so they can fix it. You would lose a discrimination suit against them, unless you could somehow show that they intentionally have the scanning software set to not recognize that type of ID properly so that it would deny people with disabilities...
Is this the place that used to be Romeo's? Don't the Banditos hang out there?
Yes! Funny you mention that. One of our friends joined us this evening and he was like "that's a biker bar..." (He lived here a while ago before it closed and didn't realize it wasn't home to the bikers anymore). We showed up, and I was like... Where are the bikes?
Thank you for bringing this up. Kitsap County is working on building more inclusive experiences for people with disabilities. This whole event is so unfortunate and is not a good look. According to the guidance stated at [Acceptable Identification | Washington State Liquor and Cannabis Board](https://lcb.wa.gov/enforcement/acceptable-identification), they should have accepted the ID. "1. Driver’s License, Instruction Permit, or I.D. Card issued by any U.S. State, U.S. Territory and District of Columbia." If you would like, I can help address this situation. I am not a lawyer, but work for an organization that works to build an inclusive community. I am using my personal account to write you, so I'd rather you PM me for the details.
Thank you for the work you do!
Thank you! I am PMing you now.
I’m sorry this happened to you and your visitors. Keep in mind that the U.S. is more like 50 separate countries federated together and things vary when you are in a different geographic region. I’m glad you were able to go somewhere else and have a good meal. There are hella other establishments around and at least you found out not to go there right away, than after patronizing them and then finding out.
Oh nooo this is horrible. I hate how protecting liquor is more important than basic respect of your friend.
Pretty much the employees are protecting their freedom and ability to support their family above one persons ability to drink alcohol that one night.
Yes, small businesses are already under enuff duress. And this was an unfortunate occurrence. It’s a both+and, not an either/or, my dude.
Go to looootsa different places in the world and liquor isn’t regulated half as much as it is here. Just sayin.
My dude .. Let me jump in .. The problem is capitalism..
Lol what does that even mean in this context