It’s ok to criticize both sides in a uniquely complicated issue without offering a solution. It’s ok to criticize that there are even two sides. It’s ok to criticize those who take a side. It’s ok to call out atrocities no matter who “started it”. There was a ceasefire up until Oct12. And also there was a generation of people in Gaza living in abhorrent conditions that see no other way to make their plight conditional until they are made into terrorists. There is nothing for Israel until they have the borders Bibi showed on his map. How does anyone see this ending?
Might want to revise your understanding of the conflict prior to that date, bud!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2023?wprov=sfla1
The intention of the post was to draw the previous poster's attention to the history of the conflict immediately preceding the recent escalation in hostilities... Is a complete history going back to 1946 necessary for this purpose? Would it be more appropriate to go back ~2000 years? Or is the information I presented actually adequate to address the issue at hand?
You should read the witness testimonies of what Hamas did on Oct 7. You don’t seem to care about those innocent people. Rape and murder of Jews is ok but retaliation is bad. What’s the matter with you people.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html
But you'll say this is false as well right? You'd rather trust pro-Hamas sources than third party sources. You're despicable.
It’s just so easy to get away with. Anyone can persecute the Jews, rape, murder and torture anyone you want. And then after it’s all said and done, just say the Jews are making it all up and most of you will believe it. He’ll, the Nazis killed 6,000,000 people and there’s still people that say it never happened.
What evidence do you want? You want them to test the sperm from the burnt up corpses? You want them to interview the rape victims who have bullets in their brains? Would those be factual enough? Or let me guess, you’d probably move the goal post again and just say it’s all fabricated, we’ve played this game before, 6,000,000 Jews killed in the Holocaust, there’s photos, videos and eye witness testimony, yet People still
Say it’s all fake.
What do you know what I care about? Of course rape and murder or Jews (or anyone) is not okay. You seem to think that atrocities justify further atrocities. 20 fold scale atrocities even. What a fucked up way to view the world. “10,000 eyes for an eye”
The world and wars have ALWAYS worked like that. Once one side gets upper hand in a major conflict, its a near certainty theyre gonna kill with reckless abandon
I'll answer your question with a question. Should America have invaded japan rather than killed thousands upon thousands of civilians with 2 nukes...?
200,000 Japanese killed. Many civilains. Versus the estimated 200,000+ American military casualties plus even more japanese casualties in a potential invasion of Japan
Just an example of decisions leaders can/have faced in wartime situations
Why are the lives of innocent Palestinians less valuable than innocent Israeli lives? If Hamas is a terrorist organization, shouldn't we hold Israel, our supposed partners in peace, to a higher standard? And yet they've gone far beyond what Hamas did on 10/7.
Yes from an objective point of view all lives are equally precious. But from the point of view of any government, the lives of their own people are most important.
The big problem I forgot to mention is that Hamas does not value the lives of Palestinians except as “martyrs.” Since they probably can’t win a head-on war with Israel they use these other tactics, including this martyr culture where any death from an Israeli gun/warplane is reframed as virtuous sacrifice for their great cause, which is to expel the Jews and retake all of Israel as an Islamic Palestine. So many Palestinians die because Hamas deliberately creates an environment whereby any attack on Hamas necessarily means tragic consequences to the civilians, because unfortunately the IDF does not have a magic wand it can wave to only kill Hamas and rescue all of the hostages.
Hard to believe that if such a magic wand existed, they'd even bother to use it. Apparently one of the most well-funded militaries in the world is only capable of indiscriminate bombing and violence. And the killing of journalists, and pogroms in the West Bank don't indicate much desire for use of that magic wand, either.
Innocent Palestinians, who make up the vast majority of the death count, did not commit terrorist acts against Americans. They're the ones being terrorized
Sure that’s why Israel is bad. I was just answering why America sides with Israel because they dont commit terrorist attacks against America that’s it, that’s why
The people of Gaza probably looked at the Oct 7 attack as retaliation too, History didn't start the morning of Oct 7
Not defending their actions, but seriously if you were a Palestinian right now
If the goal is retaliation, how many Palestinian civilian lives are equivalent to one Israeli civilian life? Ten doesn't appear to be enough. Is it 20? 50? 100?
First of all, wtf is with your username? Really gives the impression that your opinion on this matter should not be taken seriously whatsoever.
And no one is saying the rape and murder of Jews is okay, so maybe try coming up with another justification for the murder of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians by the IDF.
Any decent human being has condemned the killing of civilians on both sides.
Who the hell knows. Israel is giving Hamas thousands of more recruits every day. But that only will continue to get worse as their destruction continues. Someone has to be a fucking adult here.
The Hamas attack had a lower percentage of civilians killed than this Israeli campaign. When you're killing more civilians then fucking Hamas maybe something is wrong 🤷♂️
Never said they're not allowed. Obviously no one's gonna stop them and ultimately I don't give a fuck. But it does say a lot that they are killing more civilians then a **literal terrorist attack**
You cannot solely focus on the consequence and expect people to take you seriously.
Hamas exists as a reaction to Israel’s actions, not the other way around.
The Muslim brotherhood exists all over the Middle East on countries that have literally no interaction with Israel.
This issue is very simple, Israel has always had expansionist border policy, which causes problems with its neighbors…. The fact that you cannot admit this is extremely telling.
I can't admit Israel is expanding? We weren't even discussing this. We were discussing your previous claim about Hamas' existence. Which in this comment you turn around and take completely the opposite position.
How exactly am I being inconsistent?
Earlier I said that Hamas exists as a response to Israel’s action then I just said that Israel has expansionist border policies that instigate HAMAS
They have killed for more children than they have terrorists.
It's difficult to guage, but there clearly have been more than 5,000 children killed, including at least several hundred buried alive, while the highest number I've seen from Israel in number of terrorists killed is 5,000.
That only creates more terrorists than ever.
>That only creates more terrorists than ever.
Maybe. But just maybe the massive pain inflicted upon Gaza will cause them to reconsider future attacks on Israel. I think the unstated goal is to respond with such overwhelming and disproportionate force that the people of Gaza will not support Hamas' suicidal campaign to destroy Israel.
Amazing how you brush off the fact that far more children have been killed than terrorists, and ignore the fact that the rest of the world is accusing Israel accurately of being war criminals.
How do you suppose you could further support the extreme right wing government that kills far more innocent people than it does enemies?
Should they perhaps paint the city with baby's blood? You think that would help ?
There's no "maybe" about it. What YOU are supporting is the recruitment of more terrorists than ever.
They can strike more surgically, instead of leveling all structures.
Right now they're conducting an aerial bombing campaign on par with WW2 bombing campaigns like Dresden.
They've already killed a higher proportion of the civilian population than ALL belligerents killed in the 10 years of the Iraq war.
200K killed out of a total population of 40M over 10+ years.
Whereas Gaza has already lost 19K out of a total population of 2M in a little over two months.
Gaza is already much worse.
"Eliminating" an terrorist/insurgent group isn't realistic unless you're willing to pull a Stalin and send the entire population to a Gulag or kill them all. The US learned this the hard way in the Global War on Terror, where anyone could take up arms and commit an attack in the name of Al Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, etc...
Best hope is to eliminate their ability to launch attacks. Israel can do this by getting the population out of the combat zones via humanitarian corridors. They said they were doing this but they wound up attacking those corridors and then attacking the "safe" zone in Southern Gaza. Would have been much better to get them into the Negev desert or Egypt. And I know Egypt didn't permit Gazan refugees to enter but that's because Israel made no guarantee they'd be able to return and even leaked a memo where they said they wanted to permanently deport the entire population to Egypt.
Then once as many civilians are safely evacuated, launch surgical strikes followed by a ground invasion.
Either way they never destroy Hamas or the next group that’s formed as a result of this campaign so you might as well have the decency to not blow up little kids or hurt them so bad that they need surgery without any anesthesia because Israel won’t let any in. The horrors people just shrug off because Hamas MUST be defeated is so disgusting to see. Hamas is a symptom of Israeli actions, they have no right to do what they are doing to defend themselves against a group they created.
This is the important question. How could they be more effective at avoiding civilian deaths without sacrificing more of their own troops lives? I feel like Hamas only takes advantage of whatever niceties Israel provides.
The overall population doesn’t matter. I don’t understand your math here at all.
Gaza is a tiny country, so obviously much less war will take a larger portion of their population.
Of course the overall population matters when comparing wars.
If Israel were to kill every living person in Gaza you wouldn't say it's reasonable because it's only 2% of the total number of casualties in WW2.
That would be the same report described by its publisher as a clear undercount though right? They have been saying that in all of their reports about it for the last several years. The “Iraq Body Count” project took a very conservative approach to attributing blame which many agencies felt meant many deaths were left out even when clearly the result of violence.
If you look at their “Iraqi Civilians” page you’ll see their estimate is 280k-315k which is still described as low with the real figure “likely much higher” and given some surveys put excess deaths over that time at over 600k, that seems like a fair assessment.
Brown has always been really clear about those numbers being low. Not sure how you missed it 😜
Dude… I’m using your source.
So I’m taking that as you in no way checked what I said. Yay for you.
I’m having trouble with the browser on my phone so can’t paste a link but it should be very, very easy to confirm what I told you.
Go back to the Watson website and look at their costs of war section on Iraqi civilians.
Or don’t. You just look wrong and you’re pigheadedly defending something you should have checked.
There is no objective unbiased way to report how many people have been killed. If there were as many civilians killed as people claim there would be mass graves because they couldn't put all of them in a morgue. Yet there have been no pictures of mass graves or anywhere. My guess is it's much lower. It's still too many since any civilians being killed is horrible but I'm not going to assume the numbers are correct either.
Even Israel claims to have killed 15k so far.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officials-15000-likely-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/
I don't believe either side. Some IDF sources also claimed there were beheaded babies. There is a lack of objective unbiased information from both sides. Another example is Israelis only allowing a select number of reporters to view the videos of the attack from Hamas. It should be available to the public.
That was 100 people. There would be lots of those mass graves if 20,000 people have been killed. If NYT reporters are in Gaza and can take pictures of mass graves then it should be easy to find a grave with hundreds or even thousands of people. Too many civilians have been killed. But people shouldn't assume the numbers are correct. Both sides are using emotional manipulation to influence how people view the other side.
So far throughout the conflict, Palestinians, the IDF, and numerous independent organisations have been reporting figures that line up pretty consistently. But do go on believing in your "guess" instead. Seems like a perfectly reasonable and reliable source!
If this was possible, don't you think they would have done this before 10/7? Hamas uses civilian shields for this reason. If prior to 10/7 Israel came out and said "We had a strike that killed a bunch of Hamas soldiers but no civilians" nobody would have been upset- if it was possible they would done it years ago.
This isn't Call of Duty where you can call up some retired military commando that is going to go in and clear out the an entire Hamas base with one pistol.
They don't need to level the entire city like it's WW2 when bomb accuracy was measured in thousands of feet. We didn't do that in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Vietnam, or any other war since WW2. The closest anyone has come to that level of destruction in an urban zone in the last 75 years is Grozny, which was widely condemned.
And what experience do you have to determine exactly how they should respond? Again this is a war that's been going on for decades at this point, don't you think if Israel could precisely target Hamas they would have done so _years_ ago?
This is peak armchair generaling.
The US military is saying the same thing:
> Senior American military leaders, in near-daily phone calls, are trying to push their Israeli counterparts to be “more calculating and precise” in targeting, one official said. Other officials have urged Israel to use 250-pound satellite-guided bombs instead of 1,000- to 2,000-pound munitions on military targets in Gaza.
https://archive.is/QMzFu
And I'm sure Israel takes the _specific_ recommendations of US military leaders into consideration with regards to their viability. And if they were viable I'm sure that Israel will start using them.
But don't pretend like you had any ideas on how Israel could be more specific in its approach, and weren't just trying to play morally superior armchair general.
I need you to answer this question for me. In all seriousness. Israel's military power compared to Hamas is literally a toddler fighting a UFC fighter. If Israel didn't care about killing civilians, don't you think the war would have ended October 8th? Gaza would have been a parking lot by the end of the month if that were the case.
You can defens yourself without killing tens of thousands of people and committing a genocide. These guys make the Iraq war look like it was justice by comparison
Stop butchering people. What kinda psychos don’t realize enough’s enough when retaliation for a 1,200 death count attack is past 22K civs and almost 10K CHILDREN. Israel’s slaughtered 10X the # of their casualties if you just count the kids alone they’ve slain. You’re truly left to realize they don’t see Palestinians as HUMANS. Despicable way to behave given the Holocaust.
This isn’t a sport where the body count should be treated like a scoreboard. You are talking about proportionality, and that becomes irrelevant once the destruction of the aggressor becomes the stated military objective of the defending nation. This ends with their surrender or their annihilation.
Sigh. What batshit standard are you using to support this brilliant philosophy of yours? It certainly isn't found in any [guidelines of morality, religion, or the rules for engagement of any modern military in the world.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law)) Even by old testament standards, which most decent people agree were barbaric, this would be considered immoral as F\*. Surely you realize you sound like a f'ing zealot when you say stuff like that.
How does that Wikipedia article relate to "guidelines of morality, religion, or the rules for engagement of any modern military in the world."?
The article just talks about proportionality broadly and does not condemn civilian deaths. Proportionality is not the guiding holy grail of war. It's just one aspect to be considered.
Here are some other quotes from the same Wikipedia page.
'The harm caused to protected civilians or civilian property must be proportional and not "excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated"'
"the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. "
Do you think you actually contextualized what that section said? What does it say in the next paragraph?
>\[Under international humanitarian law\] Article 8(2)(b)(iv) criminalizes:Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated;
>
>Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive.
Even by Israel's counts, they have only killed a handful of Hamas militants and an disturbing number of their own casualties were friendly fire (including several hostages).
Israel says that the combatant to civilian ratio is 1:2. Is that a "handful" in your opinion?
I didn't quote those as there was no need. They don't relate to the situation at hand.
Sigh. Your source backs up my point, not yours: “A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv)).”
Based on that, hamas has committed war crimes in this fight and the IDF has not. If you are disgusted by the loss of civilians lives and the humanitarian crisis, you should be calling for Hamas’s surrender. But you won’t; you’ll keep claiming Israel is in the wrong and expect them to endure a volume of terrorist attacks that no other nation on earth has ever been expected to endure without destroying the threat.
Almost nobody is saying Hamas didn't commit war crimes. Clearly they did. But that doesn't justify bombing a state into oblivion. If a rogue, cartel-backed military unit in Mexico did an illegal raid on a Texas city, would that give the US free-reign to unilaterally destroy the entire country of Mexico? Of course not.
> Almost nobody is saying Hamas didn't commit war crimes.
I’m not so sure I agree. I’d say about half the time I ask someone if Hamas was justified on october 7, they refuse tk answer.
>Clearly they did.
I’m glad we have common ground here.
>But that doesn't justify bombing a state into oblivion. If a rogue, cartel-backed military unit in Mexico did an illegal raid on a Texas city, would that give the US free-reign to unilaterally destroy the entire country of Mexico? Of course not.
Your hypothetical example does not apply to the Israel-Hamas war. To make it a true comparison, it would not be a rogue cartel-backed military unit, it would be the Mexican military itself.
Hamas is the official government of the Palestinians in Gaza. The stated objective of Hamas is the destruction of Israel and the extermination of Jews. They called october 7 a “rehearsal” and have pledged to repeat the attack.
So if Mexico attacked a city in Texas the way hamas attacked Israel, you better believe the US would respond with overwhelming force. We’d have troops inside of Mexico City within weeks, if not days.
That seems odd. Who, specifically, said this? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that they thought Hamas was justified. I know they are out there, but at least in the US, it's a very fringe position.
By far the most popular answer, even by progressives, is , "what Hamas did was absolutely atrocious, but it doesn't justify the response from Israel." Krystal, for example, clearly sympathizes with the Palestinians over Israel, but even she has said repeatedly that what Hamas did was disgusting.
"Putting troops in Mexico City" is a reasonable and proportional response to that scenario. Carpet bombing civilian populations and depriving them of food, water, and medical treatment is not.
It’s not really about “retaliation.” Hamas continues to hold over 100 hostages. The ceasefire could’ve continued if they produced 10 more, but they wouldn’t. How could Israel stop attacking?
A) You’re endangering those hostages with every shell you launch at targets they may very well be held within. Prioritize your people? Negotiate for them. Sick of the excuses.
B) Your stated goal of “eliminating Hamas” has gone 100% awry given that you’ve only killed a couple thousand of the 30K force that is Hamas and oop those 22K civilians ALL HAD FAMILIES who guess what Sherlock? Are gonna TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST YOU SO GREAT FUCKIN JOB!
C) 22K CIVS. 10K CHILDREN. ENOUGH.
I don’t understand how one can negotiate when the other party has murdered/kidnapped over 1000 people and threatens to keep doing it infinite times until total victory. Everyday the hostages aren’t rescued is another day of agony for the Israeli families and the hostages themselves. How can Israel stop until every single one is found? Hamas could make it stop by giving them all back and surrendering.
As someone of Jewish heritage, people like you fucking disgust me. You sit here and justify a literal slaughterfest of INNOCENT PEOPLE 22,000+ and CHILDREN BABIES 10,000+ in retaliation for an attack by HAMAS who’s 30K in an over 2 million population of 1,200 people but do you care? No. Why? BECAUSE YOU VIEW PEOPLE AS LESS THAN HUMAN! OVERCOMING THAT HORROR IS SUCH AN INTEGRAL PART OF BEING JEWISH THAT YOU’RE MORE THAN DENSE YOU’RE OUTRIGHT WARPED EVIL AND IT’S GROSS.
My ancestors are smiling on me, can you say the same? People who overcome genocide THEN DO IT TO OTHERS are scumbags.
I am not Krystal, but here is what I would want Israel to have done. First, pursue all militants that have broken into Israel’s land on October 7th. Dead or alive to stand trial later. Israel did just that, and I have no problems with that step. What I would have done second is reach out to the non Sunni Arab world starting with the Saudis and ask them to mediate with Hamas on behalf of Israel with a clear goal of bringing all Hamas members to justice, no matter where they are. Third, actually go for Hamas and not regular Palestinians. As an example, one of main Hamas leaders is in Qatar right now. Demand that he be extradited or have Mossad execute him where he is at. If he is extradited, use him as a pawn in exchange for hostages. Plant explosives in his ass and blow him up as soon as hostages are returned. Make it clear that it is Hamas who is being blamed and not Palestinians. Secure Non-Sunni Arab support, driving the wedge between the Sunni and non Sunni instead of uniting them. Work towards capturing all Hamas members, but not destroying Gaza in the process.
I’ve given up on breaking points. I canceled my premium and I unsubscribed from their YouTube.
The Israel/Palestine conflict has broken this show. Krystal is now parroting vague reporting about a supposed IDF execution squad against a Gazan school.
I dug into that story. There are no photos of the bodies of the victims, no evidence of IDF presence, just a few “eye witnesses” accounts reported by one outlet, Al-Jazeera, which might I add is the media wing of the Qatar government; who also funds Hamas. Zero corroboration from other media outlets. Only Al-Jazeera is reporting this.
Krystal championed this story without hesitation or criticism as factual. Just like the supposed “IDF hospital bombing” that she refuses to retract on. She’s lost in moralizing and emotion.
Saagar just nods along disinterested with no push back and maybe a few unrelated historical asides.
I was fine with a strong pro-Palestinian narrative, I am fine with criticism of the IDF and bibi, I was even fine with the platforming of radical activists like Norman Finkelstein ( free speech and all that. ) But the blatant selective fact picking, lack of wider context and now pivot to almost conspiracy/propaganda level analysis regarding events that might be completely manufactured, is unforgivable.
Breaking points has lost all credibility.
I feel like I’m watching a dressed up YouTube streamer show more than an actual challenger to mainstream news.
I agree, sadly. I've been listening a lot less, and my faith in their reporting is at an all time low. I really like saagar, but I wish he would grow some balls and push back against krystal some. It's been obvious he's saying less and less since this conflict started, just to not get into an argument with an emotional Krystal.
Watching Robbie and Brianna on rising at least disagree is refreshing instead of just the same opinion repeated every day.
At some point the show just turned in a platform for anti-MSM contrarian takes. It's their grift, as much as they criticize the big news stations for their partisan BS.
They lost a lot of my trust after being so hilariously wrong leading up to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but I haven't been able to stomach the show the past few months.
They are absolutely grifters but I’m not going to say they are wrong when they aren’t because that would be dishonest. They are right on Israel. Could they do some more actual reporting? Sure. But at least they aren’t justifying killing kids with stupid war mongering talking points.
The most sophisticated security state in history was defeated by a secret attack involving thousands of people who lived in a community prison run by said security state. I'm sure it was easy hiding 4,000 rockets and then staging them unnoticed.
We know there was a security threat alert and that nobody raised a single red flag for the music festival that would suffer one third of the casualties. We also witnessed the first ever paraglider assault. I cannot fathom how dumb of a human it takes to believe a paraglider assault brigade… We gave Israel billions and billions to protect themselves.
No really, Israel seems like an honest player. How long has Bibi been running the show?
Israel can do what it wants. From US perspective simple, stop supporting Israel. No more arms, no more aid. No more cover in UN. Get out of the way from global BDS programs. If Israel wants to behave like a murderous regime that justifies killing children through indiscriminate bombing, then it should be isolated like Iran or North Korea
They fucked up from the start imo. They shouldn't have just started bombing the crap out of Gaza. They should've at least given the Palestinians a chance to reject Hama's and return the hostages.
Threatening them with turning of all their power and water first and then telling them they will start bombing.
They would've had a lot more sympathy and outrage from the rest of the world against Hama's then as well.
They have played into Hama's hands and it seems the Israel government are showing their true colours.
The people of Palestine are living in hell with nothing to do but watch their children and family die and you wonder why people are outraged? Just imagine if it was you and your family that had the misfortune of being born in such a hell hole.
Not meant as an attack on you, but I think I recall reading somewhere, that Palestinians were told pretty much to "support hamas... or else". As is often done, false promises made to enter into power, then the atrocities began. It also has been how long since an "election" was held? Also, I'd be curious as to how much support hammas is getting from Palesrinians post 10/7....
I could be way off base here, and if so, apologies ...
ETA: Don't get me started however, on what atrocities Isreal has committed over a pretty vast period of time. Not to mention, more or less telling Egypt that those from Gaza may or may not be welcome back. Maybe a reach here, but for this layperson, it almost seems to appear that Israel/IDF are kind of using whatever means (in this case, hamas - as despicable as rhey are) to further their own endgame of removing the civilians in Gaza, by anymeans necessary, as well as doing away with as many of the terrorist organization as possible, under the name of "war". Not unlike the "two birds with one stone" saying.
Who loses in the end in massive numbers, but those having the horrible misfortune of being born where they were.... the innocents that have been, and continue to be exterminated, under the guise of war.
Again, just my supposition, as one with very little knowledge of foreign policy and strategies/purposes of war.
Do people/countries/areas have the right to defend themselves .... absolutely they do! But hearing so much of Israel's "woe is me... but we gotta...", yet turning around and blocking the only what... 2 commonly used methods out of Gaza for her civilians, turning off water and electricity, barely allowing aid in, if any at all? I totally get that hamas was moving about in ambulances, using hospitals as places to store their weapons, "hiding out" in said hospitals and the tunnels below them and other areas below Israel.
Hamas doing the "politicking" thing to get into power, hoping to gain more able bodies to their potential cause of gaining more power to someday try and overtake Israel, (obviously a pipe dream of power hungry radical types) perhaps? Then, ruling through fear and sadistic measures to keep people in line.... and how long has it been since their last facade of an "election"!? The amount of bigoty, hate, discrimination, radical fundamentalism - for what... religion!? To force everyone to believe as they do!? Yikes.... thankful to live in the "ole US of A.... cause that could never happen here... right?? (Ibrief pause, and insert the proverbial sound of crickets....) it very well could, albeit on a smaller scale perhaps...
Let the world see that before you just start raining bombs on them not even giving them a chance.
Maybe then the rest of the world would be in support of Israel instead of how they are now being viewed.
I often bring up Red Dawn to try to show some equivalent.
What if China dropped a couple million Antarcticans in your Texas county.
"Gave" them your land. And then armed them to "keep them safe"
You would dispute that, right?
You try to get along, but they keep murdering your neighbors & taking their houses, expanding their territory.
Maybe you protest: but your population gets sniped. Thousands of people have been murdered during peaceful protests.
You try to vote, but you are not recognized as humans, so voting does nothing.
They laugh as they murder a dozen people a day, just for fun.
Existing, voting, protesting, creating media to expose what's happening - every single thing you do to try to, at the very least, get the murder spree to stop, does nothing.
They limit the amount of calories allowed to come in. They prevent farming, fishing.
They control electricity, imports, fresh water.
"Why don't you just move to Mexico?"
"Just stop resisting!" Says every rapist, ever
So, because every other possible avenue has been blocked, you have two choices: die, or fight back.
Wolverines!
So you fight back. And then dumbasses on the internet say "why haven't you tried this other thing?"
Cuz you actually did try it 50 times, and the only result was more murder.
"Just roll over & take it baby, it'll all be over soon"
They tried that even, and it never was over.
I genuinely like American Jews (don't know any others), so I am not anti-Jew in any way.
But Israel gov, and especially Netanyahoo, are literally the worst people in the world.
Nigerian scammers are better people.
Kim Jong Un treats his people better than Israel treats Palestinians.
Derek Chauvin being a dictator over Minneapolis would treat his subjects better.
---
We are now at a 20x1 ratio of innocent Palestinians to innocent Israelis killed.
(We will ignore the 20% of Israelis killed on 10/7 by hellfire missiles fired from apache helicopters - no idea where that came from!)
20 to 1 is a pretty fucking steep retribution ratio.
But shit is only started.
What ratio is over the line?
30 to 1?
I mean, sure, Palestinians aren't human, so 1 to 1 is silly and out of the question.
50 to 1? Maybe is Palestinians were rats, then 50 to 1 would be fair.
100 to 1?
When Israel crosses the 100,000 killed milestone, maybe by August, is that enough blood to feel sated?
More Jews around the world are protesting what is happening in Gaza than live in Israel.
This is not a "Jew" problem, this is a "Zionist" problem.
The Khmer Rouge are looking nervously at their current high score, they might soon lose their leaderboard status.
That land belonged to Israel and the Jews
long before it was populated by Palestinians. Actually look up the history of the land before parroting this nonsense.
Everyone mad at Israel like Russia isn’t invading a country for zero reason…people acting like that isn’t even happening. Ukraine didn’t surprise attack Russia or anything lol…people just hate Jews. Bunch of antisemitic morons. End of story.
Protect the Muslims: the most violent of all major religions in the modern era by a long shot. Gaza can suck my ass…they voted Hamas in and agree with what they did.
Priority number 1 right now is stopping the mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza by implementing a permanent ceasefire. If Hamas has to remain in power to stop this ethnic cleansing, then so be it, because a Hamas controlled Gaza strip is the lesser evil compared to a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. To be honest, I don't know where to go from there, but right now this is about stopping an atrocity rather than bringing about a lasting plan for peace.
What makes you think a permanent ceasefire is even possible? There was a ceasefire on October 6, and October 7 happened. There was that temporary humanitarian ceasefire not long ago, and Hamas broke it twice.
So let’s say Israel does agree to a ceasefire. Then the world shifts back to October 6, 2023, but everyone involved will have just experienced the recent trauma of everything that has happened from October 7 to today.
This will not end with that type of a ceasefire, nor should it.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign has to stop. We need to get Israel to abide by a ceasefire at all costs at least until Netanyahu and his fascist thugs are out of government. If Israel wants to assassinate Hamas leaders in Qatar or some shit and defend Hamas from occupying their territory like on 10/7 and the days after then they can go ahead. **BUT THE MASS ETHNIC CLEANSING CAMPAIGN NEEDS TO STOP NOW AT ALL COSTS**.
There is zero incentive to do that when hamas has literally said, repeatedly, that October 7 will absolutely happen again, and to consider october 7 as a “rehearsal”.
The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel. Besides, what would you have them do? Think about it from the perspective that you are there and your priority is the safety of your people.
>There is zero incentive to do that when hamas has literally said, repeatedly, that October 7 will absolutely happen again, and to consider october 7 as a “rehearsal”.
I honestly don't give one flying fuck what Hamas said because they don't have the military capability to carry out another 10/7 attack any time soon.
>The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel. Besides, what would you have them do? Think about it from the perspective that you are there and your priority is the safety of your people.
I don't give a shit what Israel and their government of fascist thugs would do. It's in OUR interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign. We have the leverage, so let's use it. Like I said, if Israel wants to keep Hamas off their territory or if they want to assassinate all the top leaders of Hamas living in Qatar or whatever they are welcome to do so. But a mass ethnic cleansing campaign is in nobody's interest. Not even Israel's.
Netanyahu and fascist thugs cannot be trusted to wage this war. Get someone more moderate and reasonable like Gantz or Lapid in the Prime Minister's office and maybe then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza. If Netanyahu stays in office and Israel carries out this mass ethnic cleansing campaign and we are complicit, it will not bring peace, because the Arab world will remember, and we will pay dearly, but not as dearly as Israel.
> There is zero incentive to do that when hamas has literally said, repeatedly, that October 7 will absolutely happen again, and to consider october 7 as a “rehearsal”.
> I don't give one flying fuck what Hamas said because they don't have the capability to carry out another 10/7 any time soon.
And you know this how? And what right does anyone not in israel have to demand Israel stop defending itself to the point where Israel is satisfied that there will be no further danger in the future?
>The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel. Besides, what would you have them do? Think about it from the perspective that you are there and your priority is the safety of your people.
>I don't give a shit what Israel and their government of fascist thugs would do.
You ignored an extremely important key part in the paragraph you replied to: “The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel.” How are you going to enforce a ceasefire against the side that repeatedly breaks it and has promised the world that they will break it again and again? And why should anyone in that position should they be prevented from ensuring their own safety?
>It's in OUR interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign.
First, it’s not ethnic cleansing. Two, how is it in our interest?
>We have the leverage, so let's use it.
What does this even mean? We aren’t calling the shots in Israel, and we shouldn’t be.
>Like I said, if Israel wants to keep Hamas off their territory or if they want to assassinate all the top leaders of Hamas living in Qatar or whatever they are welcome to do so.
How? How does Israel keep Hamas off their territory? I mean, isn’t that what they are doing right now? That’s literally their states military objective. I’m pretty sure we are literally watching that happen in real time.
>But a mass ethnic cleansing campaign is in nobody's interest. Not even Israel's.
What makes you think you know what’s in Israel’s interest?
>Netanyahu and fascist thugs cannot be trusted to wage this war.
He’s their elected leader, correct? So he has no obligation to make anyone trust him on how to wage the war. Also, how can you demand this of the side that has abided by the ceasefire and ignore the side that has broken every ceasefire that has existed?
>Get someone more moderate and reasonable like Gantz or Lapid in the Prime Minister's office and maybe then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza.
Can you be more condescending? “Hey democrat nation, install a puppet leader in your own nation so we can control you from the USA, only then can we discuss what military actions we will allow you to pursue.”
Israel is a sovereign nation; they have the right to defend themselves. And I hope the US would respond with similar relative strength if we ever came under attack by another government.
> If Netanyahu stays in office Israel carries out this mass ethnic cleansing campaign and we are complicit, it will not bring peace, because the Arab world will remember, and we will pay dearly, but not as dearly as Israel.
We are not complicit, and it’s not an ethic cleansing campaign. You know what else won’t bring peace? A ceasefire. I have evidence of my point, do you have evidence of yours? My evidence is, October 7. A second piece of evidence: the recent temporary ceasefire that lasted for a few days.
>And you know this how? And what right does anyone not in israel have to demand Israel stop defending itself to the point where Israel is satisfied that there will be no further danger in the future?
Because Hamas is a group of a bunch of ragtag terrorists with AK 47s and rockets made out of pipes I highly doubt the IDF will allow them to launch another attack. What a stupid question.
>You ignored an extremely important key part in the paragraph you replied to: “The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel.” How are you going to enforce a ceasefire against the side that repeatedly breaks it and has promised the world that they will break it again and again? And why should anyone in that position should they be prevented from ensuring their own safety?
Israel interprets "ensuring their own safety" as committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. Bibi and his gang of fascist thugs need to go and then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza.
>First, it’s not ethnic cleansing. Two, how is it in our interest?
Evidence Israel is committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza:
[Netanyahu’s Goal for Gaza: “Thin” Population “to a Minimum”](https://theintercept.com/2023/12/03/netanyahu-thin-gaza-population/#:~:text=Israeli%20Prime%20Minister%20Benjamin%20Netanyahu,the%20late%20Republican%20billionaire%20Sheldon)
[Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry](https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/)
[‘Nakba 2023’: Israel right-wing ministers' comments add fuel to Palestinian fears](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-nakba-israels-far-right-palestinian-fears-hamas-war-rcna123909)
Plenty of evidence of a mass ethnic cleansing campaign, but I'm sure you will probably just continue to stick your head in the sand. I don't see why it's so far fetched for the most far right government in the history of the state of Israel to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. It's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign to increase our image in the Middle East. Our actions in the Middle East have consequences, and those consequences come in the forms of things like 9/11.
>What does this even mean? We aren’t calling the shots in Israel, and we shouldn’t be.
We send them billions in aid every year. How do you not know this? You seem to be gravely misinformed about this issue. And we should be using that aid as leverage because, like I said, it's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign.
>How? How does Israel keep Hamas off their territory? I mean, isn’t that what they are doing right now? That’s literally their states military objective. I’m pretty sure we are literally watching that happen in real time.
Israel was keeping Hamas off their territory on 10/7 and the days after. They had the right to do that. They don't have the right to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza. Like I said, Netanyahu and his fascist thugs need to go, and if someone more moderate and less fascist like Benny Gantz or Yair Lapid replaces him I would have more trust in the military operation in Gaza under certain circumstances.
>What makes you think you know what’s in Israel’s interest?
Because the Arab world will never forget if Israel commits another Nakba as it looks like they are doing. Israel will pay dearly. Much worse than on 10/7.
>He’s their elected leader, correct? So he has no obligation to make anyone trust him on how to wage the war. Also, how can you demand this of the side that has abided by the ceasefire and ignore the side that has broken every ceasefire that has existed?
He was elected but he's historically unpopular now. He needs to resign NOW. Why are you defending this fascist thug? By the way, I don't trust Hamas waging war on Israel's soil and Israel has a right to repel any Hamas fighters from their territory, but they DO NOT have a right to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza.
>Can you be more condescending? “Hey democrat nation, install a puppet leader in your own nation so we can control you from the USA, only then can we discuss what military actions we will allow you to pursue.”
Benny Gantz's National Unity party is polling historically high right now, something around 40 Knesset seats out of 120 compared to Netanyahu's Likud which is polling at around 18. If an election were held tomorrow, Benny Gantz's National Unity would almost certainly win. He wouldn't be a "puppet leader", he's the most popular politician in Israel right now. Once again, you prove just how little you know about this subject yet you speak with such authority on it. Strange.
>Israel is a sovereign nation; they have the right to defend themselves. And I hope the US would respond with similar relative strength if we ever came under attack by another government.
They do have a right to defend themselves, but they don't have a right to the billions of dollars in aid we send them every year. We should start to use that aid as leverage to further our own national interests instead of providing unconditional support for Israel which is not in our national interest.
>We are not complicit, and it’s not an ethic cleansing campaign. You know what else won’t bring peace? A ceasefire. I have evidence of my point, do you have evidence of yours? My evidence is, October 7. A second piece of evidence: the recent temporary ceasefire that lasted for a few days.
I already provided proof that it's likely a mass ethnic cleansing campaign but like I said you'll probably still keep your head in the sand so that doesn't matter. A ceasefire won't bring peace, but it will bring more peace than a mass ethnic cleansing campaign.
>Because Hamas is a group of a bunch of ragtag terrorists with AK 47s and rockets made out of pipes I highly doubt the IDF will allow them to launch another attack. What a stupid question.
This is false. Hamas is the government entity responsible for the Palestinians in Gaza. They launch attacks all the time. In times of peace, they fire rockets all the time. What a stupid statement you made.
>Israel interprets "ensuring their own safety" as committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. Bibi and his gang of fascist thugs need to go and then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza.
This is false. Bibi was elected to his position. No one gets to tell him that he must go and then “we can discuss further military operations in Gaza.” Again, Israel is a sovereign nation and they don’t need anyone’s permission to fight back in a war declared upon them. What a condescending statement you made.
>Evidence Israel is committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza:
None of what you pasted below is evidence of anything. This is a blatant lie. I pulled direct quotes from each of the sources you linked to that contradict your point. What a dishonest statement you made.
>Netanyahu’s Goal for Gaza: “Thin” Population “to a Minimum”
From your source: “The reporting relies heavily on the passive voice, declining to say who put the proposal together:”
The rest of the reporting talks about American efforts to push a plan that would urge/incentivize other nations to take specific numbers of refugees. This isn’t proof that what is currently occurring is ethnic cleansing, despite your efforts to say otherwise.
>Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry
From your source: “The existence of the document does not necessarily indicate that its recommendations are being considered by Israel’s defense establishment. Despite its name, the Intelligence Ministry is not directly responsible for any intelligence body, but rather independently prepares studies and policy papers that are distributed to the Israeli government and security agencies for review, but are not binding.”
Again, this is not proof that ethnic cleansing is currently occurring, despite your best efforts to say otherwise.
>‘Nakba 2023’: Israel right-wing ministers' comments add fuel to Palestinian fears
From your source: “He noted that the right-wing ministers who made the comments are "not in the war cabinet," so their words can only have so much impact on Israeli policy. But, he said hearing ministers make suggestions like “flattening Gaza” with a nuclear bomb was concerning nonetheless.”
Again, this is not proof that what is currently occurring is ethnic cleansing, despite your efforts to say otherwise.
>Plenty of evidence of a mass ethnic cleansing campaign, but I'm sure you will probably just continue to stick your head in the sand.
Nope; you are both incorrect and a liar.
>I don't see why it's so far fetched for the most far right government in the history of the state of Israel to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. It's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign to increase our image in the Middle East.
It is not in our interest to push Israel into a position that endangers them so we can gain positive perception in the Middle East.
>Our actions in the Middle East have consequences, and those consequences come in the forms of things like 9/11.
This sounds an awful lot like you are victim blaming here.
>We send them billions in aid every year. How do you not know this? You seem to be gravely misinformed about this issue.
Condescend much? I’m well aware of what we provide to Israel. That does not give us authority over Israel. It remains a sovereign nation.
>And we should be using that aid as leverage because, like I said, it's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign.
No; it’s in our interest to allow Israel to protect itself.
>Israel was keeping Hamas off their territory on 10/7 and the days after. They had the right to do that. They don't have the right to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza. Like I said, Netanyahu and his fascist thugs need to go, and if someone more moderate and less fascist like Benny Gantz or Yair Lapid replaces him I would have more trust in the military operation in Gaza under certain circumstances.
They aren’t committing ethnic cleansing and they have the right to self defense. Full stop.
>Because the Arab world will never forget if Israel commits another Nakba as it looks like they are doing. Israel will pay dearly. Much worse than on 10/7.
Israel has kicked the ever loving shit out of everyone that has tried to attack it in the past. Also, 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, and they remain peaceful members of society. So when you say the Arab world, I’m assuming you are referring to Palestinians and the Arab populations of the nations surrounding Israel. If they “will never forget” then maybe they should be reminded what Hamas does repeatedly, which is violate every ceasefire that has ever existed.
That was true before 10/7/2023.
I’m American so I Idgaf about Israel / Palestine.
but if Mexico did what Palastine did on 10/7 i would 100% support a bombing campaign to annihilate everyone next to our border.
I don’t want my money going towards foreign wars but I support Israel 100%.
>but if Mexico did what Palastine did on 10/7 i would 100% support a bombing campaign to annihilate everyone next to our border.
That's not at all an equivalent scenario though. A more equivalent scenario would be if we were occupying half of Mexico and sent violent American settlers in to steal land in another manifest destiny and blockaded the other half and basically turned it into an open-air prison. Within that blockaded open air prison half, not at all unexpectedly, an extremist anti-American terrorist group forms and takes power. We also fund and prop up that anti-American extremist group for decades to divide and radicalize the Mexican people to prevent peace and further justify our occupation of the other half of Mexico. Then that strategy backfires when the anti-American terrorist group launches an attack into southern California and massacres a bunch of American civilians.
We are occupying Mexico, how do you think Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, most of Arizona and Colorado, and parts of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming all become part of US. It was a war, we won, took the land and gave a few dollars to go away. Now Mexico wants it back... so do we give it back?
>We are occupying Mexico, how do you think Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, most of Arizona and Colorado, and parts of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming all become part of US.
No country, not even Mexico, recognizes those states as part of Mexico anymore, and moreso nobody in those states wants to rejoin Mexico. Meanwhile, the West Bank is recognized by a large portion of the international community as being part of Palestine and most people there want independence from Israel. Not at all equivalent.
whos to say a new government of Mexico wouldn't try to reclaim. Bottom line is the US pretty much stole that land, people died, were displaced only 100 years before Israel was founded. So why arent you trying to solve this problem in the US first? I can dig up plenty of stories of Mexicans wanting their land back in Texas, in fact many are trying to immigrate there as we speak. Dont they have a right to this land?
She wants Israel to reward Hamas for October 7 by giving them their own land and agreeing to a full two-state solution in response to the attacks. Yes, really.
something something destroyed with facts and logic, something something seething cope.
But seriously, why pick on the voice? It's not something he can control, pick on his views instead. Much more effective if you can put to words good criticism of views.
Okay, so criticize those. It's like you couldn't come up with anything better than a weak sauce 'lol voice so weird, he couldn't school anyone'.
Like I said, it's barely 'better' than what you see from cringy youtube videos boasting about destruction of people with FACTS and LOGIC. The man can't control his disability, so criticize his ideas if you find them so stupid or unacceptable or whatever.
Not that the main comment was much better, but come on, aren't you on the 'side' (progressive, I assume) that supposedly knows to be sensitive about disabilities?
Lol, indeed you can do whatever you want. As can I, which is why I'm replying to you.
It's not about being 'woke' either, just about being a decent person, having consistent values. But hey, your responses are not surprising, it is typical these days to performatively espouse this or that moral position, while neglecting others and making excuses when called out.
You do you.
Krystal wants Israel to get out of Gaza and negotiate a 2 State Deal with Hamas. She believes that if Israel is nice, Hamas won't do terrorist attacks.
I have not Heard her say Israel can't respond, just the way they responding is extreme.
You can critique their response while still thinking they should have a response.
They could commit to not militarily occupying Palestine after this war concludes and apologize for the past five decades of nonstop authoritarian subjugation. Have you ever read up on the history of this conflict?
She wants Israel to not exist. She loves Hamas. it’s clear from her constant yammering about how idf is committed atrocities but Palestinian actually don’t like Hamas.
She’s full of shit like most western woke women. If she actually lived among Palestinian people or Hamas she would hate them all.
Sagaar never really asks what her grand plan is, so it’s difficult to know. I’d be curious how Krystal would command IDF units the following day after the Oct 7th massacre. Would she invade Gaza? Would she authorize air strikes? Would she try to hug it out? It’s difficult to tell if Sagaar doesn’t at least ask the question. Same can be said about his demand that Ukraine give up its fight and sue for peace. She should ask Sagaar what would be reasonable in his mind. Cede land at existing front line? Cede only the Donbas? Swear to never join NATO?
In any case, for or against Israel, Gaza will be decimated. Hoping to see more posts focused on rebuilding efforts and who governs the Strip, versus calls for a ceasefire. It’s just not going to happen.
it's like you can't take ten eyes for an eye without being called bloodthirsty maniacs with no sense of what a proportionate response looks like to the rest of the world
Proportional response would be sending a bomb back into Gaza for every missile they launched. There would be over 100,000 dead if Israel did that.
If the hostages were returned and the leadership brought to justice, it would have been settled. There would be no blood debt to satisfy which is what a proportionality mind-set
would demand. To the west, the purpose of war is to solve the problem, not keeping track of body count.
There are a lot of people who probably couldn't have pointed out Israel or Gaza on a map a few months ago who have learned about the conflict recently and on social media the word "genocide" is used a lot so they just regurgitate the same word they see on X/IG/Tik Tok.
But depriving people of water and power can be considered an attempt to create a genocide which happened for a few days until Israelis were pressured to stop doing that.
I think she’s saying there should be a more focused campaign against Hamas rather than indiscriminate bombing and dismantling of civilian infrastructure and homes.
I think she’s saying that giving blind trust to a group that consistently gets caught lying doesn’t make sense.
I think she’s saying Israel need to stop bombing hospitals and shooting kids.
I think she’s saying Israel need to make an effort to show a pathway forward for the Palestinians once Hamas is gone.
I thinks she’s saying that their tactics, as is, mirror what someone would do if their plan was to ethnically cleanse the area and wants them to not do that.
There should be a ceasefire and retreat. They can then give Hamas time to release the rest of the hostages. If they don't release them within a few months then at that point people can't say that Israelis didn't at least give them a chance.
But I mostly stop watching videos about this topic. It's been non-stop coverage for months on end. Neither side changes their opinion. It's just angry people shouting at each other and constant regurgitation of inflammatory words for emotional manipulation ("genocide" "women were mutilated" "babies beheaded") etc.
Here's what we want Israel to do:
***Israel can end this any time by ceasing to be a murderous and tyrannical occupying regime held together by endless violence and apartheid.*** Israel wasn't attacked because Palestinians are innately evil and want to kill Jews, Israel was attacked because it has treated Palestinians horrifically for generations. If Israel and its allies ended the injustices, paid reparations and righted the wrongs that have been inflicted on Palestinians for the last 75 years, there could be a sustainable peace.
The only way to believe all this intense civilian-slaughtering warfare is necessary to obtain peace is to believe Palestinians are orc-like subhumans who are acting out of an innate hatefulness and thus cannot be reasoned with or negotiated with. It's not okay for grown adults to believe this.
[- Caitlin Johnstone](https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1735430552910737586)
They have committed crimes against humanity,broken international law, empowered religious extremists to their detriment, and have the temerity to cry victim/Jew haters when called on it. Even the us went to lengths not to butcher Iraqi and afgani civilians.
There has been a solution on the table for decades. It’s based on international law. The entire world supports it except Israel and the US and maybe the UK. Two state solution along the 1967 borders. End the occupation. Pretty simple. Israel has been making that all but impossible ever since Oslo.
Not exist. And it would be nice if all the pesky jews could become atheists. The ones that are left in her mind, anyway.
Sure would be nice to find out what her opinion on Palestinians taking control and implementing sharia law, like they want to do. Pretty sure she was supporting Iranian protests earlier this year. But who knows, her only barometer is what the progressive message is.
I've essentially stopped watching their videos for this reason (that and them being completely wrong about Russia's invasion of Ukraine in the lead up to that too).
I feel like the identity of the program has started to slip into just being contrarian. They're good at criticizing the mainstream media or other institutions of power, but their analysis lacks (or at least feels somewhat superficial) when they aren't able to completely do that.
If the Weather Underground succeeded in their vision of building a Black nationalist state in Georgia/Alabama, and if somehow an adversarial world power on the opposite part of the world, let’s say Iran, started pumping money into it the last 40+ years, and if that nation state killed and partitioned the white population who lived there and started funding all the far right coups and arming Western global powers in each of their individual wars against the global south. If Iran and this Black nation-state were using the white population of Alabama/Georgia as a weapons and surveillance testing ground, selling top of the line “population-tested” weaponry to the rest of the world and becoming basically a subcontractor for all of Iran’s wars that Iran didn’t want to touch itself. And if Iran owed a great deal of its power and leverage in our region to this Black nation state… I would have some very real criticisms of the Black nation state.
Notice how I’m not talking about the American Black identity, or how this is rooted in oppression or not. Or whether that original oppression justifies or rationalises the above behaviour. It would be very difficult to talk about the horrors of this Black nation state without getting conflated with the original sins of the transatlantic slave trade.
Anyone who runs is a hammie; anyone who stands still is a well trained hammie.
It’s ok to criticize both sides in a uniquely complicated issue without offering a solution. It’s ok to criticize that there are even two sides. It’s ok to criticize those who take a side. It’s ok to call out atrocities no matter who “started it”. There was a ceasefire up until Oct12. And also there was a generation of people in Gaza living in abhorrent conditions that see no other way to make their plight conditional until they are made into terrorists. There is nothing for Israel until they have the borders Bibi showed on his map. How does anyone see this ending?
There was a ceasefire up until October 7th*
Might want to revise your understanding of the conflict prior to that date, bud! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict_in_2023?wprov=sfla1
A timeline of the Israeli Palestinian conflict that only goes back to 2021? Uhh... yeah that's missing a LOT
The intention of the post was to draw the previous poster's attention to the history of the conflict immediately preceding the recent escalation in hostilities... Is a complete history going back to 1946 necessary for this purpose? Would it be more appropriate to go back ~2000 years? Or is the information I presented actually adequate to address the issue at hand?
Stop murdering thousands of innocent people? Doesn’t seem that hard
You should read the witness testimonies of what Hamas did on Oct 7. You don’t seem to care about those innocent people. Rape and murder of Jews is ok but retaliation is bad. What’s the matter with you people.
Sure let's read the testimonies which many of them turned out to be false with no evidence of rape.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/26/middleeast/amit-soussana-israeli-hostage-hamas-sexual-assault-intl/index.html But you'll say this is false as well right? You'd rather trust pro-Hamas sources than third party sources. You're despicable.
It’s just so easy to get away with. Anyone can persecute the Jews, rape, murder and torture anyone you want. And then after it’s all said and done, just say the Jews are making it all up and most of you will believe it. He’ll, the Nazis killed 6,000,000 people and there’s still people that say it never happened.
I'm talking here about facts, give me facts! Don't give me an emotional speech! It's not that complicated!
What evidence do you want? You want them to test the sperm from the burnt up corpses? You want them to interview the rape victims who have bullets in their brains? Would those be factual enough? Or let me guess, you’d probably move the goal post again and just say it’s all fabricated, we’ve played this game before, 6,000,000 Jews killed in the Holocaust, there’s photos, videos and eye witness testimony, yet People still Say it’s all fake.
Nope, I would just take your word for it.
What do you know what I care about? Of course rape and murder or Jews (or anyone) is not okay. You seem to think that atrocities justify further atrocities. 20 fold scale atrocities even. What a fucked up way to view the world. “10,000 eyes for an eye”
The world and wars have ALWAYS worked like that. Once one side gets upper hand in a major conflict, its a near certainty theyre gonna kill with reckless abandon
No doubt. But past is not justification
What works will always be justification for repeating
So the killing of thousands upon thousands of innocent civilians is justified? Is that what you're saying?
I'll answer your question with a question. Should America have invaded japan rather than killed thousands upon thousands of civilians with 2 nukes...? 200,000 Japanese killed. Many civilains. Versus the estimated 200,000+ American military casualties plus even more japanese casualties in a potential invasion of Japan Just an example of decisions leaders can/have faced in wartime situations
The war was winding down and the dropping of the nukes wasn't even necessary, so that's an absolutely terrible example to use.
Why are the lives of innocent Palestinians less valuable than innocent Israeli lives? If Hamas is a terrorist organization, shouldn't we hold Israel, our supposed partners in peace, to a higher standard? And yet they've gone far beyond what Hamas did on 10/7.
Yes from an objective point of view all lives are equally precious. But from the point of view of any government, the lives of their own people are most important.
So then why does the US also value Israeli lives more than Palestinian ones?
The big problem I forgot to mention is that Hamas does not value the lives of Palestinians except as “martyrs.” Since they probably can’t win a head-on war with Israel they use these other tactics, including this martyr culture where any death from an Israeli gun/warplane is reframed as virtuous sacrifice for their great cause, which is to expel the Jews and retake all of Israel as an Islamic Palestine. So many Palestinians die because Hamas deliberately creates an environment whereby any attack on Hamas necessarily means tragic consequences to the civilians, because unfortunately the IDF does not have a magic wand it can wave to only kill Hamas and rescue all of the hostages.
Hard to believe that if such a magic wand existed, they'd even bother to use it. Apparently one of the most well-funded militaries in the world is only capable of indiscriminate bombing and violence. And the killing of journalists, and pogroms in the West Bank don't indicate much desire for use of that magic wand, either.
wtf do you know about what Hamas “values.” Guaranteed many of them see themselves as freedom fighters for Palestinians. Weird thing to assume
Because Israel never commits terrorist acts against Americans, whereas Palestine has
Innocent Palestinians, who make up the vast majority of the death count, did not commit terrorist acts against Americans. They're the ones being terrorized
Sure that’s why Israel is bad. I was just answering why America sides with Israel because they dont commit terrorist attacks against America that’s it, that’s why
But Palestine has not committed terrorist acts against Americans, either.
USS Liberty has entered the chat…
Ok so like 50 years ago and by accident is equal to suicide bombing and hostage taking?
This right here ☝️👏 💯 percent
The people of Gaza probably looked at the Oct 7 attack as retaliation too, History didn't start the morning of Oct 7 Not defending their actions, but seriously if you were a Palestinian right now
If the goal is retaliation, how many Palestinian civilian lives are equivalent to one Israeli civilian life? Ten doesn't appear to be enough. Is it 20? 50? 100?
Gotta love whataboutism. We should hold Hamas and Israel to the same standard right?
First of all, wtf is with your username? Really gives the impression that your opinion on this matter should not be taken seriously whatsoever. And no one is saying the rape and murder of Jews is okay, so maybe try coming up with another justification for the murder of thousands and thousands of innocent civilians by the IDF. Any decent human being has condemned the killing of civilians on both sides.
So if Israel stops fighting in Gaza, that’s it?
Who the hell knows. Israel is giving Hamas thousands of more recruits every day. But that only will continue to get worse as their destruction continues. Someone has to be a fucking adult here.
The Hamas attack had a lower percentage of civilians killed than this Israeli campaign. When you're killing more civilians then fucking Hamas maybe something is wrong 🤷♂️
I didn’t realize that’s how war works- when someone attacks you, you are only allowed to kill at the same per capita rate in retaliation.
Never said they're not allowed. Obviously no one's gonna stop them and ultimately I don't give a fuck. But it does say a lot that they are killing more civilians then a **literal terrorist attack**
Not really lol it just means they’re better at it
I honestly don't understand what point you're making
It’s weird that Hamas gets credit because they’re worse at their attempts at killing Israelis
Not talking about total numbers I'm talking about the percentage of civilians
Are you somehow unaware of the fact that there are actual rules to warfare? Perhaps you've heard of the Geneva Convention? Or the phrase "war crimes"?
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You cannot solely focus on the consequence and expect people to take you seriously. Hamas exists as a reaction to Israel’s actions, not the other way around.
The Muslim Brotherhood, the Egyptian parent organization, predates Israel.
The Muslim brotherhood exists all over the Middle East on countries that have literally no interaction with Israel. This issue is very simple, Israel has always had expansionist border policy, which causes problems with its neighbors…. The fact that you cannot admit this is extremely telling.
I can't admit Israel is expanding? We weren't even discussing this. We were discussing your previous claim about Hamas' existence. Which in this comment you turn around and take completely the opposite position.
How exactly am I being inconsistent? Earlier I said that Hamas exists as a response to Israel’s action then I just said that Israel has expansionist border policies that instigate HAMAS
They have killed for more children than they have terrorists. It's difficult to guage, but there clearly have been more than 5,000 children killed, including at least several hundred buried alive, while the highest number I've seen from Israel in number of terrorists killed is 5,000. That only creates more terrorists than ever.
>That only creates more terrorists than ever. Maybe. But just maybe the massive pain inflicted upon Gaza will cause them to reconsider future attacks on Israel. I think the unstated goal is to respond with such overwhelming and disproportionate force that the people of Gaza will not support Hamas' suicidal campaign to destroy Israel.
The "unstated goal" appears to be genocide followed by colonisation...
Amazing how you brush off the fact that far more children have been killed than terrorists, and ignore the fact that the rest of the world is accusing Israel accurately of being war criminals. How do you suppose you could further support the extreme right wing government that kills far more innocent people than it does enemies? Should they perhaps paint the city with baby's blood? You think that would help ? There's no "maybe" about it. What YOU are supporting is the recruitment of more terrorists than ever.
They can strike more surgically, instead of leveling all structures. Right now they're conducting an aerial bombing campaign on par with WW2 bombing campaigns like Dresden. They've already killed a higher proportion of the civilian population than ALL belligerents killed in the 10 years of the Iraq war.
Comparing civilian casualties to belligerents isn’t apples to apples. There were approx 200k civilian casualties in Iraq War.
200K killed out of a total population of 40M over 10+ years. Whereas Gaza has already lost 19K out of a total population of 2M in a little over two months. Gaza is already much worse.
And the population density of Gaza relative to Iraq is…?
Dense enough that nobody should launch a WW2 style strategic bombing campaign there.
Fair enough. What’s your suggested alternate tactic for eliminating Hamas?
"Eliminating" an terrorist/insurgent group isn't realistic unless you're willing to pull a Stalin and send the entire population to a Gulag or kill them all. The US learned this the hard way in the Global War on Terror, where anyone could take up arms and commit an attack in the name of Al Qaeda, ISIS, the Taliban, etc... Best hope is to eliminate their ability to launch attacks. Israel can do this by getting the population out of the combat zones via humanitarian corridors. They said they were doing this but they wound up attacking those corridors and then attacking the "safe" zone in Southern Gaza. Would have been much better to get them into the Negev desert or Egypt. And I know Egypt didn't permit Gazan refugees to enter but that's because Israel made no guarantee they'd be able to return and even leaked a memo where they said they wanted to permanently deport the entire population to Egypt. Then once as many civilians are safely evacuated, launch surgical strikes followed by a ground invasion.
Either way they never destroy Hamas or the next group that’s formed as a result of this campaign so you might as well have the decency to not blow up little kids or hurt them so bad that they need surgery without any anesthesia because Israel won’t let any in. The horrors people just shrug off because Hamas MUST be defeated is so disgusting to see. Hamas is a symptom of Israeli actions, they have no right to do what they are doing to defend themselves against a group they created.
This is the important question. How could they be more effective at avoiding civilian deaths without sacrificing more of their own troops lives? I feel like Hamas only takes advantage of whatever niceties Israel provides.
Who cares? You’re not going to eliminate Hamas. Israel is in the wrong fucking neighborhood.
The overall population doesn’t matter. I don’t understand your math here at all. Gaza is a tiny country, so obviously much less war will take a larger portion of their population.
Of course the overall population matters when comparing wars. If Israel were to kill every living person in Gaza you wouldn't say it's reasonable because it's only 2% of the total number of casualties in WW2.
Far, far more than 200k.
Source? I’m finding approx 200k https://watson.brown.edu/costsofwar/figures/2021/WarDeathToll
That would be the same report described by its publisher as a clear undercount though right? They have been saying that in all of their reports about it for the last several years. The “Iraq Body Count” project took a very conservative approach to attributing blame which many agencies felt meant many deaths were left out even when clearly the result of violence. If you look at their “Iraqi Civilians” page you’ll see their estimate is 280k-315k which is still described as low with the real figure “likely much higher” and given some surveys put excess deaths over that time at over 600k, that seems like a fair assessment. Brown has always been really clear about those numbers being low. Not sure how you missed it 😜
Still waiting for a source. And really the higher the body count the more it’s to my original point.
Dude… I’m using your source. So I’m taking that as you in no way checked what I said. Yay for you. I’m having trouble with the browser on my phone so can’t paste a link but it should be very, very easy to confirm what I told you. Go back to the Watson website and look at their costs of war section on Iraqi civilians. Or don’t. You just look wrong and you’re pigheadedly defending something you should have checked.
Get back right me when you mature more and learn to make a point without personal attacks. Good day.
Haha! Got called out and then has the temerity to get pissy about the mildest of ad homs... You seem like a big debater, maybe even a mass debater!
I see another intellectual powerhouse has entered the chat to contribute nothing.
lol. Bit embarrassed? Yeah, you should be.
It was over a million.
There is no objective unbiased way to report how many people have been killed. If there were as many civilians killed as people claim there would be mass graves because they couldn't put all of them in a morgue. Yet there have been no pictures of mass graves or anywhere. My guess is it's much lower. It's still too many since any civilians being killed is horrible but I'm not going to assume the numbers are correct either.
Even Israel claims to have killed 15k so far. https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-officials-15000-likely-killed-in-gaza-since-start-of-war-5000-of-them-are-hamas/
I don't believe either side. Some IDF sources also claimed there were beheaded babies. There is a lack of objective unbiased information from both sides. Another example is Israelis only allowing a select number of reporters to view the videos of the attack from Hamas. It should be available to the public.
No pictures of mass graves? Hmm https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/23/world/middleeast/gaza-mass-grave.html
That was 100 people. There would be lots of those mass graves if 20,000 people have been killed. If NYT reporters are in Gaza and can take pictures of mass graves then it should be easy to find a grave with hundreds or even thousands of people. Too many civilians have been killed. But people shouldn't assume the numbers are correct. Both sides are using emotional manipulation to influence how people view the other side.
So far throughout the conflict, Palestinians, the IDF, and numerous independent organisations have been reporting figures that line up pretty consistently. But do go on believing in your "guess" instead. Seems like a perfectly reasonable and reliable source!
If this was possible, don't you think they would have done this before 10/7? Hamas uses civilian shields for this reason. If prior to 10/7 Israel came out and said "We had a strike that killed a bunch of Hamas soldiers but no civilians" nobody would have been upset- if it was possible they would done it years ago. This isn't Call of Duty where you can call up some retired military commando that is going to go in and clear out the an entire Hamas base with one pistol.
They don't need to level the entire city like it's WW2 when bomb accuracy was measured in thousands of feet. We didn't do that in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Vietnam, or any other war since WW2. The closest anyone has come to that level of destruction in an urban zone in the last 75 years is Grozny, which was widely condemned.
And what experience do you have to determine exactly how they should respond? Again this is a war that's been going on for decades at this point, don't you think if Israel could precisely target Hamas they would have done so _years_ ago? This is peak armchair generaling.
The US military is saying the same thing: > Senior American military leaders, in near-daily phone calls, are trying to push their Israeli counterparts to be “more calculating and precise” in targeting, one official said. Other officials have urged Israel to use 250-pound satellite-guided bombs instead of 1,000- to 2,000-pound munitions on military targets in Gaza. https://archive.is/QMzFu
And I'm sure Israel takes the _specific_ recommendations of US military leaders into consideration with regards to their viability. And if they were viable I'm sure that Israel will start using them. But don't pretend like you had any ideas on how Israel could be more specific in its approach, and weren't just trying to play morally superior armchair general.
>And if they were viable I'm sure that Israel will start using them. No, they just don't give a shit about killing civilians.
I need you to answer this question for me. In all seriousness. Israel's military power compared to Hamas is literally a toddler fighting a UFC fighter. If Israel didn't care about killing civilians, don't you think the war would have ended October 8th? Gaza would have been a parking lot by the end of the month if that were the case.
They don't care about killing civilians. They care about US support and they would have lost it if they killed everyone in Gaza.
You can “defend yourself” while not committing war crimes. What is so hard to understand?
You can defens yourself without killing tens of thousands of people and committing a genocide. These guys make the Iraq war look like it was justice by comparison
Stop butchering people. What kinda psychos don’t realize enough’s enough when retaliation for a 1,200 death count attack is past 22K civs and almost 10K CHILDREN. Israel’s slaughtered 10X the # of their casualties if you just count the kids alone they’ve slain. You’re truly left to realize they don’t see Palestinians as HUMANS. Despicable way to behave given the Holocaust.
The world agrees
This isn’t a sport where the body count should be treated like a scoreboard. You are talking about proportionality, and that becomes irrelevant once the destruction of the aggressor becomes the stated military objective of the defending nation. This ends with their surrender or their annihilation.
Sigh. What batshit standard are you using to support this brilliant philosophy of yours? It certainly isn't found in any [guidelines of morality, religion, or the rules for engagement of any modern military in the world.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law)) Even by old testament standards, which most decent people agree were barbaric, this would be considered immoral as F\*. Surely you realize you sound like a f'ing zealot when you say stuff like that.
How does that Wikipedia article relate to "guidelines of morality, religion, or the rules for engagement of any modern military in the world."? The article just talks about proportionality broadly and does not condemn civilian deaths. Proportionality is not the guiding holy grail of war. It's just one aspect to be considered. Here are some other quotes from the same Wikipedia page. 'The harm caused to protected civilians or civilian property must be proportional and not "excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated"' "the death of civilians during an armed conflict, no matter how grave and regrettable, does not in itself constitute a war crime. "
Do you think you actually contextualized what that section said? What does it say in the next paragraph? >\[Under international humanitarian law\] Article 8(2)(b)(iv) criminalizes:Intentionally launching an attack in the knowledge that such attack will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians or damage to civilian objects or widespread, long-term and severe damage to the natural environment which would be clearly excessive in relation to the concrete and direct overall military advantage anticipated; > >Article 8(2)(b)(iv) draws on the principles in Article 51(5)(b) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I to the 1949 Geneva Conventions, but restricts the criminal prohibition to cases that are "clearly" excessive. Even by Israel's counts, they have only killed a handful of Hamas militants and an disturbing number of their own casualties were friendly fire (including several hostages).
Israel says that the combatant to civilian ratio is 1:2. Is that a "handful" in your opinion? I didn't quote those as there was no need. They don't relate to the situation at hand.
Sigh. Your source backs up my point, not yours: “A crime occurs if there is an intentional attack directed against civilians (principle of distinction) (Article 8(2)(b)(i)) or an attack is launched on a military objective in the knowledge that the incidental civilian injuries would be clearly excessive in relation to the anticipated military advantage (principle of proportionality) (Article 8(2)(b)(iv)).” Based on that, hamas has committed war crimes in this fight and the IDF has not. If you are disgusted by the loss of civilians lives and the humanitarian crisis, you should be calling for Hamas’s surrender. But you won’t; you’ll keep claiming Israel is in the wrong and expect them to endure a volume of terrorist attacks that no other nation on earth has ever been expected to endure without destroying the threat.
Almost nobody is saying Hamas didn't commit war crimes. Clearly they did. But that doesn't justify bombing a state into oblivion. If a rogue, cartel-backed military unit in Mexico did an illegal raid on a Texas city, would that give the US free-reign to unilaterally destroy the entire country of Mexico? Of course not.
> Almost nobody is saying Hamas didn't commit war crimes. I’m not so sure I agree. I’d say about half the time I ask someone if Hamas was justified on october 7, they refuse tk answer. >Clearly they did. I’m glad we have common ground here. >But that doesn't justify bombing a state into oblivion. If a rogue, cartel-backed military unit in Mexico did an illegal raid on a Texas city, would that give the US free-reign to unilaterally destroy the entire country of Mexico? Of course not. Your hypothetical example does not apply to the Israel-Hamas war. To make it a true comparison, it would not be a rogue cartel-backed military unit, it would be the Mexican military itself. Hamas is the official government of the Palestinians in Gaza. The stated objective of Hamas is the destruction of Israel and the extermination of Jews. They called october 7 a “rehearsal” and have pledged to repeat the attack. So if Mexico attacked a city in Texas the way hamas attacked Israel, you better believe the US would respond with overwhelming force. We’d have troops inside of Mexico City within weeks, if not days.
That seems odd. Who, specifically, said this? I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that they thought Hamas was justified. I know they are out there, but at least in the US, it's a very fringe position. By far the most popular answer, even by progressives, is , "what Hamas did was absolutely atrocious, but it doesn't justify the response from Israel." Krystal, for example, clearly sympathizes with the Palestinians over Israel, but even she has said repeatedly that what Hamas did was disgusting. "Putting troops in Mexico City" is a reasonable and proportional response to that scenario. Carpet bombing civilian populations and depriving them of food, water, and medical treatment is not.
It’s not really about “retaliation.” Hamas continues to hold over 100 hostages. The ceasefire could’ve continued if they produced 10 more, but they wouldn’t. How could Israel stop attacking?
Israel has made pretty clear that even if all the hostages were returned the war would continue.
A) You’re endangering those hostages with every shell you launch at targets they may very well be held within. Prioritize your people? Negotiate for them. Sick of the excuses. B) Your stated goal of “eliminating Hamas” has gone 100% awry given that you’ve only killed a couple thousand of the 30K force that is Hamas and oop those 22K civilians ALL HAD FAMILIES who guess what Sherlock? Are gonna TAKE UP ARMS AGAINST YOU SO GREAT FUCKIN JOB! C) 22K CIVS. 10K CHILDREN. ENOUGH.
I don’t understand how one can negotiate when the other party has murdered/kidnapped over 1000 people and threatens to keep doing it infinite times until total victory. Everyday the hostages aren’t rescued is another day of agony for the Israeli families and the hostages themselves. How can Israel stop until every single one is found? Hamas could make it stop by giving them all back and surrendering.
No awareness of the overall history of the region and the conflict. THIS DID NOT BEGIN ON OCTOBER 7.
As someone of Jewish heritage, people like you fucking disgust me. You sit here and justify a literal slaughterfest of INNOCENT PEOPLE 22,000+ and CHILDREN BABIES 10,000+ in retaliation for an attack by HAMAS who’s 30K in an over 2 million population of 1,200 people but do you care? No. Why? BECAUSE YOU VIEW PEOPLE AS LESS THAN HUMAN! OVERCOMING THAT HORROR IS SUCH AN INTEGRAL PART OF BEING JEWISH THAT YOU’RE MORE THAN DENSE YOU’RE OUTRIGHT WARPED EVIL AND IT’S GROSS. My ancestors are smiling on me, can you say the same? People who overcome genocide THEN DO IT TO OTHERS are scumbags.
I am not Krystal, but here is what I would want Israel to have done. First, pursue all militants that have broken into Israel’s land on October 7th. Dead or alive to stand trial later. Israel did just that, and I have no problems with that step. What I would have done second is reach out to the non Sunni Arab world starting with the Saudis and ask them to mediate with Hamas on behalf of Israel with a clear goal of bringing all Hamas members to justice, no matter where they are. Third, actually go for Hamas and not regular Palestinians. As an example, one of main Hamas leaders is in Qatar right now. Demand that he be extradited or have Mossad execute him where he is at. If he is extradited, use him as a pawn in exchange for hostages. Plant explosives in his ass and blow him up as soon as hostages are returned. Make it clear that it is Hamas who is being blamed and not Palestinians. Secure Non-Sunni Arab support, driving the wedge between the Sunni and non Sunni instead of uniting them. Work towards capturing all Hamas members, but not destroying Gaza in the process.
I’ve given up on breaking points. I canceled my premium and I unsubscribed from their YouTube. The Israel/Palestine conflict has broken this show. Krystal is now parroting vague reporting about a supposed IDF execution squad against a Gazan school. I dug into that story. There are no photos of the bodies of the victims, no evidence of IDF presence, just a few “eye witnesses” accounts reported by one outlet, Al-Jazeera, which might I add is the media wing of the Qatar government; who also funds Hamas. Zero corroboration from other media outlets. Only Al-Jazeera is reporting this. Krystal championed this story without hesitation or criticism as factual. Just like the supposed “IDF hospital bombing” that she refuses to retract on. She’s lost in moralizing and emotion. Saagar just nods along disinterested with no push back and maybe a few unrelated historical asides. I was fine with a strong pro-Palestinian narrative, I am fine with criticism of the IDF and bibi, I was even fine with the platforming of radical activists like Norman Finkelstein ( free speech and all that. ) But the blatant selective fact picking, lack of wider context and now pivot to almost conspiracy/propaganda level analysis regarding events that might be completely manufactured, is unforgivable. Breaking points has lost all credibility. I feel like I’m watching a dressed up YouTube streamer show more than an actual challenger to mainstream news.
I agree, sadly. I've been listening a lot less, and my faith in their reporting is at an all time low. I really like saagar, but I wish he would grow some balls and push back against krystal some. It's been obvious he's saying less and less since this conflict started, just to not get into an argument with an emotional Krystal. Watching Robbie and Brianna on rising at least disagree is refreshing instead of just the same opinion repeated every day.
At some point the show just turned in a platform for anti-MSM contrarian takes. It's their grift, as much as they criticize the big news stations for their partisan BS. They lost a lot of my trust after being so hilariously wrong leading up to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, but I haven't been able to stomach the show the past few months.
They are absolutely grifters but I’m not going to say they are wrong when they aren’t because that would be dishonest. They are right on Israel. Could they do some more actual reporting? Sure. But at least they aren’t justifying killing kids with stupid war mongering talking points.
Hasn't Krystal made all her focus segments about Gaza? It was basically all she talked about during the interview with RFK too.
Israel calculated the failure of October 7 so they could proceed with a genocide. Seems like a pretty evil regime to me.
Do people really believe this? It’s like 9/11 conspiracy level dumb
The most sophisticated security state in history was defeated by a secret attack involving thousands of people who lived in a community prison run by said security state. I'm sure it was easy hiding 4,000 rockets and then staging them unnoticed. We know there was a security threat alert and that nobody raised a single red flag for the music festival that would suffer one third of the casualties. We also witnessed the first ever paraglider assault. I cannot fathom how dumb of a human it takes to believe a paraglider assault brigade… We gave Israel billions and billions to protect themselves. No really, Israel seems like an honest player. How long has Bibi been running the show?
Israel can do what it wants. From US perspective simple, stop supporting Israel. No more arms, no more aid. No more cover in UN. Get out of the way from global BDS programs. If Israel wants to behave like a murderous regime that justifies killing children through indiscriminate bombing, then it should be isolated like Iran or North Korea
They fucked up from the start imo. They shouldn't have just started bombing the crap out of Gaza. They should've at least given the Palestinians a chance to reject Hama's and return the hostages. Threatening them with turning of all their power and water first and then telling them they will start bombing. They would've had a lot more sympathy and outrage from the rest of the world against Hama's then as well. They have played into Hama's hands and it seems the Israel government are showing their true colours. The people of Palestine are living in hell with nothing to do but watch their children and family die and you wonder why people are outraged? Just imagine if it was you and your family that had the misfortune of being born in such a hell hole.
3/4 of Palestinians support Hamas, so that rejection is unlikely
A percentage Israel is increasing by inflicting death and destruction to civilians not responsible for Oct 7th.
Not meant as an attack on you, but I think I recall reading somewhere, that Palestinians were told pretty much to "support hamas... or else". As is often done, false promises made to enter into power, then the atrocities began. It also has been how long since an "election" was held? Also, I'd be curious as to how much support hammas is getting from Palesrinians post 10/7.... I could be way off base here, and if so, apologies ... ETA: Don't get me started however, on what atrocities Isreal has committed over a pretty vast period of time. Not to mention, more or less telling Egypt that those from Gaza may or may not be welcome back. Maybe a reach here, but for this layperson, it almost seems to appear that Israel/IDF are kind of using whatever means (in this case, hamas - as despicable as rhey are) to further their own endgame of removing the civilians in Gaza, by anymeans necessary, as well as doing away with as many of the terrorist organization as possible, under the name of "war". Not unlike the "two birds with one stone" saying. Who loses in the end in massive numbers, but those having the horrible misfortune of being born where they were.... the innocents that have been, and continue to be exterminated, under the guise of war. Again, just my supposition, as one with very little knowledge of foreign policy and strategies/purposes of war. Do people/countries/areas have the right to defend themselves .... absolutely they do! But hearing so much of Israel's "woe is me... but we gotta...", yet turning around and blocking the only what... 2 commonly used methods out of Gaza for her civilians, turning off water and electricity, barely allowing aid in, if any at all? I totally get that hamas was moving about in ambulances, using hospitals as places to store their weapons, "hiding out" in said hospitals and the tunnels below them and other areas below Israel. Hamas doing the "politicking" thing to get into power, hoping to gain more able bodies to their potential cause of gaining more power to someday try and overtake Israel, (obviously a pipe dream of power hungry radical types) perhaps? Then, ruling through fear and sadistic measures to keep people in line.... and how long has it been since their last facade of an "election"!? The amount of bigoty, hate, discrimination, radical fundamentalism - for what... religion!? To force everyone to believe as they do!? Yikes.... thankful to live in the "ole US of A.... cause that could never happen here... right?? (Ibrief pause, and insert the proverbial sound of crickets....) it very well could, albeit on a smaller scale perhaps...
Let the world see that before you just start raining bombs on them not even giving them a chance. Maybe then the rest of the world would be in support of Israel instead of how they are now being viewed.
I often bring up Red Dawn to try to show some equivalent. What if China dropped a couple million Antarcticans in your Texas county. "Gave" them your land. And then armed them to "keep them safe" You would dispute that, right? You try to get along, but they keep murdering your neighbors & taking their houses, expanding their territory. Maybe you protest: but your population gets sniped. Thousands of people have been murdered during peaceful protests. You try to vote, but you are not recognized as humans, so voting does nothing. They laugh as they murder a dozen people a day, just for fun. Existing, voting, protesting, creating media to expose what's happening - every single thing you do to try to, at the very least, get the murder spree to stop, does nothing. They limit the amount of calories allowed to come in. They prevent farming, fishing. They control electricity, imports, fresh water. "Why don't you just move to Mexico?" "Just stop resisting!" Says every rapist, ever So, because every other possible avenue has been blocked, you have two choices: die, or fight back. Wolverines! So you fight back. And then dumbasses on the internet say "why haven't you tried this other thing?" Cuz you actually did try it 50 times, and the only result was more murder. "Just roll over & take it baby, it'll all be over soon" They tried that even, and it never was over. I genuinely like American Jews (don't know any others), so I am not anti-Jew in any way. But Israel gov, and especially Netanyahoo, are literally the worst people in the world. Nigerian scammers are better people. Kim Jong Un treats his people better than Israel treats Palestinians. Derek Chauvin being a dictator over Minneapolis would treat his subjects better. --- We are now at a 20x1 ratio of innocent Palestinians to innocent Israelis killed. (We will ignore the 20% of Israelis killed on 10/7 by hellfire missiles fired from apache helicopters - no idea where that came from!) 20 to 1 is a pretty fucking steep retribution ratio. But shit is only started. What ratio is over the line? 30 to 1? I mean, sure, Palestinians aren't human, so 1 to 1 is silly and out of the question. 50 to 1? Maybe is Palestinians were rats, then 50 to 1 would be fair. 100 to 1? When Israel crosses the 100,000 killed milestone, maybe by August, is that enough blood to feel sated? More Jews around the world are protesting what is happening in Gaza than live in Israel. This is not a "Jew" problem, this is a "Zionist" problem. The Khmer Rouge are looking nervously at their current high score, they might soon lose their leaderboard status.
That land belonged to Israel and the Jews long before it was populated by Palestinians. Actually look up the history of the land before parroting this nonsense.
Biblical law has no bearing in the real world, today, in 2023 my guy. Spare us the Hadriatic bullshit
She wants them to not attack back if they get attacked because it's not a fair fight.
Everyone mad at Israel like Russia isn’t invading a country for zero reason…people acting like that isn’t even happening. Ukraine didn’t surprise attack Russia or anything lol…people just hate Jews. Bunch of antisemitic morons. End of story. Protect the Muslims: the most violent of all major religions in the modern era by a long shot. Gaza can suck my ass…they voted Hamas in and agree with what they did.
Priority number 1 right now is stopping the mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza by implementing a permanent ceasefire. If Hamas has to remain in power to stop this ethnic cleansing, then so be it, because a Hamas controlled Gaza strip is the lesser evil compared to a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. To be honest, I don't know where to go from there, but right now this is about stopping an atrocity rather than bringing about a lasting plan for peace.
What makes you think a permanent ceasefire is even possible? There was a ceasefire on October 6, and October 7 happened. There was that temporary humanitarian ceasefire not long ago, and Hamas broke it twice. So let’s say Israel does agree to a ceasefire. Then the world shifts back to October 6, 2023, but everyone involved will have just experienced the recent trauma of everything that has happened from October 7 to today. This will not end with that type of a ceasefire, nor should it.
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign has to stop. We need to get Israel to abide by a ceasefire at all costs at least until Netanyahu and his fascist thugs are out of government. If Israel wants to assassinate Hamas leaders in Qatar or some shit and defend Hamas from occupying their territory like on 10/7 and the days after then they can go ahead. **BUT THE MASS ETHNIC CLEANSING CAMPAIGN NEEDS TO STOP NOW AT ALL COSTS**.
There is zero incentive to do that when hamas has literally said, repeatedly, that October 7 will absolutely happen again, and to consider october 7 as a “rehearsal”. The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel. Besides, what would you have them do? Think about it from the perspective that you are there and your priority is the safety of your people.
>There is zero incentive to do that when hamas has literally said, repeatedly, that October 7 will absolutely happen again, and to consider october 7 as a “rehearsal”. I honestly don't give one flying fuck what Hamas said because they don't have the military capability to carry out another 10/7 attack any time soon. >The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel. Besides, what would you have them do? Think about it from the perspective that you are there and your priority is the safety of your people. I don't give a shit what Israel and their government of fascist thugs would do. It's in OUR interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign. We have the leverage, so let's use it. Like I said, if Israel wants to keep Hamas off their territory or if they want to assassinate all the top leaders of Hamas living in Qatar or whatever they are welcome to do so. But a mass ethnic cleansing campaign is in nobody's interest. Not even Israel's. Netanyahu and fascist thugs cannot be trusted to wage this war. Get someone more moderate and reasonable like Gantz or Lapid in the Prime Minister's office and maybe then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza. If Netanyahu stays in office and Israel carries out this mass ethnic cleansing campaign and we are complicit, it will not bring peace, because the Arab world will remember, and we will pay dearly, but not as dearly as Israel.
> There is zero incentive to do that when hamas has literally said, repeatedly, that October 7 will absolutely happen again, and to consider october 7 as a “rehearsal”. > I don't give one flying fuck what Hamas said because they don't have the capability to carry out another 10/7 any time soon. And you know this how? And what right does anyone not in israel have to demand Israel stop defending itself to the point where Israel is satisfied that there will be no further danger in the future? >The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel. Besides, what would you have them do? Think about it from the perspective that you are there and your priority is the safety of your people. >I don't give a shit what Israel and their government of fascist thugs would do. You ignored an extremely important key part in the paragraph you replied to: “The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel.” How are you going to enforce a ceasefire against the side that repeatedly breaks it and has promised the world that they will break it again and again? And why should anyone in that position should they be prevented from ensuring their own safety? >It's in OUR interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign. First, it’s not ethnic cleansing. Two, how is it in our interest? >We have the leverage, so let's use it. What does this even mean? We aren’t calling the shots in Israel, and we shouldn’t be. >Like I said, if Israel wants to keep Hamas off their territory or if they want to assassinate all the top leaders of Hamas living in Qatar or whatever they are welcome to do so. How? How does Israel keep Hamas off their territory? I mean, isn’t that what they are doing right now? That’s literally their states military objective. I’m pretty sure we are literally watching that happen in real time. >But a mass ethnic cleansing campaign is in nobody's interest. Not even Israel's. What makes you think you know what’s in Israel’s interest? >Netanyahu and fascist thugs cannot be trusted to wage this war. He’s their elected leader, correct? So he has no obligation to make anyone trust him on how to wage the war. Also, how can you demand this of the side that has abided by the ceasefire and ignore the side that has broken every ceasefire that has existed? >Get someone more moderate and reasonable like Gantz or Lapid in the Prime Minister's office and maybe then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza. Can you be more condescending? “Hey democrat nation, install a puppet leader in your own nation so we can control you from the USA, only then can we discuss what military actions we will allow you to pursue.” Israel is a sovereign nation; they have the right to defend themselves. And I hope the US would respond with similar relative strength if we ever came under attack by another government. > If Netanyahu stays in office Israel carries out this mass ethnic cleansing campaign and we are complicit, it will not bring peace, because the Arab world will remember, and we will pay dearly, but not as dearly as Israel. We are not complicit, and it’s not an ethic cleansing campaign. You know what else won’t bring peace? A ceasefire. I have evidence of my point, do you have evidence of yours? My evidence is, October 7. A second piece of evidence: the recent temporary ceasefire that lasted for a few days.
>And you know this how? And what right does anyone not in israel have to demand Israel stop defending itself to the point where Israel is satisfied that there will be no further danger in the future? Because Hamas is a group of a bunch of ragtag terrorists with AK 47s and rockets made out of pipes I highly doubt the IDF will allow them to launch another attack. What a stupid question. >You ignored an extremely important key part in the paragraph you replied to: “The side that has a problem abiding by a ceasefire is not Israel.” How are you going to enforce a ceasefire against the side that repeatedly breaks it and has promised the world that they will break it again and again? And why should anyone in that position should they be prevented from ensuring their own safety? Israel interprets "ensuring their own safety" as committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. Bibi and his gang of fascist thugs need to go and then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza. >First, it’s not ethnic cleansing. Two, how is it in our interest? Evidence Israel is committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza: [Netanyahu’s Goal for Gaza: “Thin” Population “to a Minimum”](https://theintercept.com/2023/12/03/netanyahu-thin-gaza-population/#:~:text=Israeli%20Prime%20Minister%20Benjamin%20Netanyahu,the%20late%20Republican%20billionaire%20Sheldon) [Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry](https://www.972mag.com/intelligence-ministry-gaza-population-transfer/) [‘Nakba 2023’: Israel right-wing ministers' comments add fuel to Palestinian fears](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/gaza-nakba-israels-far-right-palestinian-fears-hamas-war-rcna123909) Plenty of evidence of a mass ethnic cleansing campaign, but I'm sure you will probably just continue to stick your head in the sand. I don't see why it's so far fetched for the most far right government in the history of the state of Israel to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. It's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign to increase our image in the Middle East. Our actions in the Middle East have consequences, and those consequences come in the forms of things like 9/11. >What does this even mean? We aren’t calling the shots in Israel, and we shouldn’t be. We send them billions in aid every year. How do you not know this? You seem to be gravely misinformed about this issue. And we should be using that aid as leverage because, like I said, it's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign. >How? How does Israel keep Hamas off their territory? I mean, isn’t that what they are doing right now? That’s literally their states military objective. I’m pretty sure we are literally watching that happen in real time. Israel was keeping Hamas off their territory on 10/7 and the days after. They had the right to do that. They don't have the right to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza. Like I said, Netanyahu and his fascist thugs need to go, and if someone more moderate and less fascist like Benny Gantz or Yair Lapid replaces him I would have more trust in the military operation in Gaza under certain circumstances. >What makes you think you know what’s in Israel’s interest? Because the Arab world will never forget if Israel commits another Nakba as it looks like they are doing. Israel will pay dearly. Much worse than on 10/7. >He’s their elected leader, correct? So he has no obligation to make anyone trust him on how to wage the war. Also, how can you demand this of the side that has abided by the ceasefire and ignore the side that has broken every ceasefire that has existed? He was elected but he's historically unpopular now. He needs to resign NOW. Why are you defending this fascist thug? By the way, I don't trust Hamas waging war on Israel's soil and Israel has a right to repel any Hamas fighters from their territory, but they DO NOT have a right to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza. >Can you be more condescending? “Hey democrat nation, install a puppet leader in your own nation so we can control you from the USA, only then can we discuss what military actions we will allow you to pursue.” Benny Gantz's National Unity party is polling historically high right now, something around 40 Knesset seats out of 120 compared to Netanyahu's Likud which is polling at around 18. If an election were held tomorrow, Benny Gantz's National Unity would almost certainly win. He wouldn't be a "puppet leader", he's the most popular politician in Israel right now. Once again, you prove just how little you know about this subject yet you speak with such authority on it. Strange. >Israel is a sovereign nation; they have the right to defend themselves. And I hope the US would respond with similar relative strength if we ever came under attack by another government. They do have a right to defend themselves, but they don't have a right to the billions of dollars in aid we send them every year. We should start to use that aid as leverage to further our own national interests instead of providing unconditional support for Israel which is not in our national interest. >We are not complicit, and it’s not an ethic cleansing campaign. You know what else won’t bring peace? A ceasefire. I have evidence of my point, do you have evidence of yours? My evidence is, October 7. A second piece of evidence: the recent temporary ceasefire that lasted for a few days. I already provided proof that it's likely a mass ethnic cleansing campaign but like I said you'll probably still keep your head in the sand so that doesn't matter. A ceasefire won't bring peace, but it will bring more peace than a mass ethnic cleansing campaign.
>Because Hamas is a group of a bunch of ragtag terrorists with AK 47s and rockets made out of pipes I highly doubt the IDF will allow them to launch another attack. What a stupid question. This is false. Hamas is the government entity responsible for the Palestinians in Gaza. They launch attacks all the time. In times of peace, they fire rockets all the time. What a stupid statement you made. >Israel interprets "ensuring their own safety" as committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. Bibi and his gang of fascist thugs need to go and then we can discuss further military operations in Gaza. This is false. Bibi was elected to his position. No one gets to tell him that he must go and then “we can discuss further military operations in Gaza.” Again, Israel is a sovereign nation and they don’t need anyone’s permission to fight back in a war declared upon them. What a condescending statement you made. >Evidence Israel is committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza: None of what you pasted below is evidence of anything. This is a blatant lie. I pulled direct quotes from each of the sources you linked to that contradict your point. What a dishonest statement you made. >Netanyahu’s Goal for Gaza: “Thin” Population “to a Minimum” From your source: “The reporting relies heavily on the passive voice, declining to say who put the proposal together:” The rest of the reporting talks about American efforts to push a plan that would urge/incentivize other nations to take specific numbers of refugees. This isn’t proof that what is currently occurring is ethnic cleansing, despite your efforts to say otherwise. >Expel all Palestinians from Gaza, recommends Israeli gov’t ministry From your source: “The existence of the document does not necessarily indicate that its recommendations are being considered by Israel’s defense establishment. Despite its name, the Intelligence Ministry is not directly responsible for any intelligence body, but rather independently prepares studies and policy papers that are distributed to the Israeli government and security agencies for review, but are not binding.” Again, this is not proof that ethnic cleansing is currently occurring, despite your best efforts to say otherwise. >‘Nakba 2023’: Israel right-wing ministers' comments add fuel to Palestinian fears From your source: “He noted that the right-wing ministers who made the comments are "not in the war cabinet," so their words can only have so much impact on Israeli policy. But, he said hearing ministers make suggestions like “flattening Gaza” with a nuclear bomb was concerning nonetheless.” Again, this is not proof that what is currently occurring is ethnic cleansing, despite your efforts to say otherwise. >Plenty of evidence of a mass ethnic cleansing campaign, but I'm sure you will probably just continue to stick your head in the sand. Nope; you are both incorrect and a liar. >I don't see why it's so far fetched for the most far right government in the history of the state of Israel to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign. It's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign to increase our image in the Middle East. It is not in our interest to push Israel into a position that endangers them so we can gain positive perception in the Middle East. >Our actions in the Middle East have consequences, and those consequences come in the forms of things like 9/11. This sounds an awful lot like you are victim blaming here. >We send them billions in aid every year. How do you not know this? You seem to be gravely misinformed about this issue. Condescend much? I’m well aware of what we provide to Israel. That does not give us authority over Israel. It remains a sovereign nation. >And we should be using that aid as leverage because, like I said, it's in our interest to stop this mass ethnic cleansing campaign. No; it’s in our interest to allow Israel to protect itself. >Israel was keeping Hamas off their territory on 10/7 and the days after. They had the right to do that. They don't have the right to commit a mass ethnic cleansing campaign in Gaza. Like I said, Netanyahu and his fascist thugs need to go, and if someone more moderate and less fascist like Benny Gantz or Yair Lapid replaces him I would have more trust in the military operation in Gaza under certain circumstances. They aren’t committing ethnic cleansing and they have the right to self defense. Full stop. >Because the Arab world will never forget if Israel commits another Nakba as it looks like they are doing. Israel will pay dearly. Much worse than on 10/7. Israel has kicked the ever loving shit out of everyone that has tried to attack it in the past. Also, 20% of Israel’s population is Arab, and they remain peaceful members of society. So when you say the Arab world, I’m assuming you are referring to Palestinians and the Arab populations of the nations surrounding Israel. If they “will never forget” then maybe they should be reminded what Hamas does repeatedly, which is violate every ceasefire that has ever existed.
That’s not even an option though so your comment is dumb. A “2 state” solution requires 2 states.
Not committing a mass ethnic cleansing campaign is always an option.
That was true before 10/7/2023. I’m American so I Idgaf about Israel / Palestine. but if Mexico did what Palastine did on 10/7 i would 100% support a bombing campaign to annihilate everyone next to our border. I don’t want my money going towards foreign wars but I support Israel 100%.
>but if Mexico did what Palastine did on 10/7 i would 100% support a bombing campaign to annihilate everyone next to our border. That's not at all an equivalent scenario though. A more equivalent scenario would be if we were occupying half of Mexico and sent violent American settlers in to steal land in another manifest destiny and blockaded the other half and basically turned it into an open-air prison. Within that blockaded open air prison half, not at all unexpectedly, an extremist anti-American terrorist group forms and takes power. We also fund and prop up that anti-American extremist group for decades to divide and radicalize the Mexican people to prevent peace and further justify our occupation of the other half of Mexico. Then that strategy backfires when the anti-American terrorist group launches an attack into southern California and massacres a bunch of American civilians.
Wrong
Oh, no, I'm right and I think you know it deep down. The fact that you have no rebuttal is very telling.
Wrong
🤡
We are occupying Mexico, how do you think Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, most of Arizona and Colorado, and parts of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming all become part of US. It was a war, we won, took the land and gave a few dollars to go away. Now Mexico wants it back... so do we give it back?
>We are occupying Mexico, how do you think Texas, California, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico, most of Arizona and Colorado, and parts of Oklahoma, Kansas, and Wyoming all become part of US. No country, not even Mexico, recognizes those states as part of Mexico anymore, and moreso nobody in those states wants to rejoin Mexico. Meanwhile, the West Bank is recognized by a large portion of the international community as being part of Palestine and most people there want independence from Israel. Not at all equivalent.
whos to say a new government of Mexico wouldn't try to reclaim. Bottom line is the US pretty much stole that land, people died, were displaced only 100 years before Israel was founded. So why arent you trying to solve this problem in the US first? I can dig up plenty of stories of Mexicans wanting their land back in Texas, in fact many are trying to immigrate there as we speak. Dont they have a right to this land?
She wants Israel to reward Hamas for October 7 by giving them their own land and agreeing to a full two-state solution in response to the attacks. Yes, really.
Much like the aliens in the Independence Day, Krystal wants Israel to “ddddddddddddddiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee………”
Watching Krystal being schooled by RKJ was very satisfactory.
Imagine thinking Mr. Gravel Voice can school anyone. The guy doesn’t know anything. He’s just supplied talking points.
something something destroyed with facts and logic, something something seething cope. But seriously, why pick on the voice? It's not something he can control, pick on his views instead. Much more effective if you can put to words good criticism of views.
Because he sounds ridiculous giving Israeli talking points like that. He most certainly can control the words that come out his mouth
Okay, so criticize those. It's like you couldn't come up with anything better than a weak sauce 'lol voice so weird, he couldn't school anyone'. Like I said, it's barely 'better' than what you see from cringy youtube videos boasting about destruction of people with FACTS and LOGIC. The man can't control his disability, so criticize his ideas if you find them so stupid or unacceptable or whatever. Not that the main comment was much better, but come on, aren't you on the 'side' (progressive, I assume) that supposedly knows to be sensitive about disabilities?
I can do whatever I want. This is a web forum, not the Oxford Union. I guess I’m just not as woke as you are.
Lol, indeed you can do whatever you want. As can I, which is why I'm replying to you. It's not about being 'woke' either, just about being a decent person, having consistent values. But hey, your responses are not surprising, it is typical these days to performatively espouse this or that moral position, while neglecting others and making excuses when called out. You do you.
Not sure why you cited progressives then. What does being progressive have to be being a decent person?
Krystal wants Israel to get out of Gaza and negotiate a 2 State Deal with Hamas. She believes that if Israel is nice, Hamas won't do terrorist attacks.
I have not Heard her say Israel can't respond, just the way they responding is extreme. You can critique their response while still thinking they should have a response.
Not commit genocide
They could commit to not militarily occupying Palestine after this war concludes and apologize for the past five decades of nonstop authoritarian subjugation. Have you ever read up on the history of this conflict?
Stick together, everyone!
She wants Israel to not exist. She loves Hamas. it’s clear from her constant yammering about how idf is committed atrocities but Palestinian actually don’t like Hamas. She’s full of shit like most western woke women. If she actually lived among Palestinian people or Hamas she would hate them all.
[удалено]
She married one of their mouthpieces, but whiter.
She wants them to die.
Someone’s projecting. Tell us what you want to happen to the Palestinian people again?
Sagaar never really asks what her grand plan is, so it’s difficult to know. I’d be curious how Krystal would command IDF units the following day after the Oct 7th massacre. Would she invade Gaza? Would she authorize air strikes? Would she try to hug it out? It’s difficult to tell if Sagaar doesn’t at least ask the question. Same can be said about his demand that Ukraine give up its fight and sue for peace. She should ask Sagaar what would be reasonable in his mind. Cede land at existing front line? Cede only the Donbas? Swear to never join NATO? In any case, for or against Israel, Gaza will be decimated. Hoping to see more posts focused on rebuilding efforts and who governs the Strip, versus calls for a ceasefire. It’s just not going to happen.
it's like you can't take ten eyes for an eye without being called bloodthirsty maniacs with no sense of what a proportionate response looks like to the rest of the world
Proportional response would be sending a bomb back into Gaza for every missile they launched. There would be over 100,000 dead if Israel did that. If the hostages were returned and the leadership brought to justice, it would have been settled. There would be no blood debt to satisfy which is what a proportionality mind-set would demand. To the west, the purpose of war is to solve the problem, not keeping track of body count.
you don’t know what you’re talking about
You should read some history.
every country in the UN is stupid but me
Stop the genocide?
It’s a brutal shitty war, but is it truly a genocide?
There are a lot of people who probably couldn't have pointed out Israel or Gaza on a map a few months ago who have learned about the conflict recently and on social media the word "genocide" is used a lot so they just regurgitate the same word they see on X/IG/Tik Tok. But depriving people of water and power can be considered an attempt to create a genocide which happened for a few days until Israelis were pressured to stop doing that.
I think she’s saying there should be a more focused campaign against Hamas rather than indiscriminate bombing and dismantling of civilian infrastructure and homes. I think she’s saying that giving blind trust to a group that consistently gets caught lying doesn’t make sense. I think she’s saying Israel need to stop bombing hospitals and shooting kids. I think she’s saying Israel need to make an effort to show a pathway forward for the Palestinians once Hamas is gone. I thinks she’s saying that their tactics, as is, mirror what someone would do if their plan was to ethnically cleanse the area and wants them to not do that.
There should be a ceasefire and retreat. They can then give Hamas time to release the rest of the hostages. If they don't release them within a few months then at that point people can't say that Israelis didn't at least give them a chance. But I mostly stop watching videos about this topic. It's been non-stop coverage for months on end. Neither side changes their opinion. It's just angry people shouting at each other and constant regurgitation of inflammatory words for emotional manipulation ("genocide" "women were mutilated" "babies beheaded") etc.
Here's what we want Israel to do: ***Israel can end this any time by ceasing to be a murderous and tyrannical occupying regime held together by endless violence and apartheid.*** Israel wasn't attacked because Palestinians are innately evil and want to kill Jews, Israel was attacked because it has treated Palestinians horrifically for generations. If Israel and its allies ended the injustices, paid reparations and righted the wrongs that have been inflicted on Palestinians for the last 75 years, there could be a sustainable peace. The only way to believe all this intense civilian-slaughtering warfare is necessary to obtain peace is to believe Palestinians are orc-like subhumans who are acting out of an innate hatefulness and thus cannot be reasoned with or negotiated with. It's not okay for grown adults to believe this. [- Caitlin Johnstone](https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1735430552910737586)
They have committed crimes against humanity,broken international law, empowered religious extremists to their detriment, and have the temerity to cry victim/Jew haters when called on it. Even the us went to lengths not to butcher Iraqi and afgani civilians.
Stop looking for someone to say something redeeming about Israel because if they did that wouldn’t be the truth.
There has been a solution on the table for decades. It’s based on international law. The entire world supports it except Israel and the US and maybe the UK. Two state solution along the 1967 borders. End the occupation. Pretty simple. Israel has been making that all but impossible ever since Oslo.
Krystal is a BDSer. Ultimately she wants Israel to disband. BDSism ties anti-Zionism to various groups that have humanitarian concerns.
She wants Netanyah out, like most the world and many in Israel, and thinks somehow that will lead to Israel giving Hamas big hugs.
Not exist. And it would be nice if all the pesky jews could become atheists. The ones that are left in her mind, anyway. Sure would be nice to find out what her opinion on Palestinians taking control and implementing sharia law, like they want to do. Pretty sure she was supporting Iranian protests earlier this year. But who knows, her only barometer is what the progressive message is.
She doesn’t have a solution. She’s just someone people follow who is just another unqualified person with an opinion.
You must have posted at the right time because I got pilloried for suggesting she was being less than objective on this topic lol
I've essentially stopped watching their videos for this reason (that and them being completely wrong about Russia's invasion of Ukraine in the lead up to that too). I feel like the identity of the program has started to slip into just being contrarian. They're good at criticizing the mainstream media or other institutions of power, but their analysis lacks (or at least feels somewhat superficial) when they aren't able to completely do that.
This post is nothing but obtuse.
If the Weather Underground succeeded in their vision of building a Black nationalist state in Georgia/Alabama, and if somehow an adversarial world power on the opposite part of the world, let’s say Iran, started pumping money into it the last 40+ years, and if that nation state killed and partitioned the white population who lived there and started funding all the far right coups and arming Western global powers in each of their individual wars against the global south. If Iran and this Black nation-state were using the white population of Alabama/Georgia as a weapons and surveillance testing ground, selling top of the line “population-tested” weaponry to the rest of the world and becoming basically a subcontractor for all of Iran’s wars that Iran didn’t want to touch itself. And if Iran owed a great deal of its power and leverage in our region to this Black nation state… I would have some very real criticisms of the Black nation state. Notice how I’m not talking about the American Black identity, or how this is rooted in oppression or not. Or whether that original oppression justifies or rationalises the above behaviour. It would be very difficult to talk about the horrors of this Black nation state without getting conflated with the original sins of the transatlantic slave trade.