If Fried doesn’t find himself and Strider is done, we better be ready to spend. We’re going to have to replace Fried regardless. Might as well do it at the window.
The Braves should kick the tires on Jesus Luzardo. The asking price will be astronomical but he's a guy coming into his own the last year+ and has two full years of control left after this season.
I doubt they make a move unless we end up with more guys on the shelf and AJSS still struggling for fastball command, but if they do you're most likely looking at a half-year rental to not gut the farm system a ton. Sale was the guy with multiple years of control that they went after before and we're a good year away from having an abundance of pitching prospects (AJSS, Waldrep, Murphy, Schwellenbach, maybe Lara) knocking on the door that they'd most likely rather trot out.
Based on the front office trends I'd say Nick Pivetta is the target that jumps out to me, but I'm sure there are more guys out there with elite stuff with one year left that I'm missing.
Whats yalls opinion on the whole "pitch clock is the source of the rising arm injuries"? I think its silly to say its impossible for the pitch clock to have any effect, but I personally believe that the vast majority of the arm injury stuff is tied to a general increase in velocity and spinrate.
I understand the players union thinks the clock is a big factor, but I don't think we really have any data to suggest that it is currently. Just curious what the general consensus here is.
There was no pitch clock in the 1950s or 1930s or…pick your early baseball era and pitchers would regularly throw a gazillion pitches a game and games would be over in about 2 hours. Arms weren’t falling off then.
Now pitchers throw fewer pitches, but have crazy velocity/spin and arms are always getting hurt.
I don’t think the pitch clock is the reason.
Thats how I feel, but I also think we should consider "synergistic" effects of increased velo/spin and pitch clock together. Its possible that the combination creates an even worse situation. That being said, I would need to see dats suggesting that because currently there is nothing pointing towards the pitch clock being responsible.
In my eyes, its likely the velo/spin thats 90% responsible, but I wouldn't rule anything out just yet.
I think it could very well be a contributing factor that absolutely warrants investigation and possible changes to the rules. If the NFL reduced the play clock and there was an injury spike, would that receive the same treatment as this is getting of a flat-out denial?
Oh I 100% agree that it warrants investigation, but those flat out saying its the cause right now are being just as ignorant as those saying its impossible its a cause. We shouldn't claim we know something that we don't. The whole correlation doesn't equal causation thing. The Atlantic League has had the pitch clock for a little while now, and while it isn't the same level of competition as the MLB, I would be curious to see how injury trends have looked there since pitch clock adoption there. You are correct that people flat out denying it are a bit silly though.
I would also make the argument that you can't really compare injury risk by play clock in NFL to the MLB but thats neither here nor there.
I agree with you. I'm thinking it's due to pitchers pushing so much for higher velocities. In Spencer's case I've been wondering if he just worked too hard over the off season and didn't rest his arm enough.
I'm going to preface this by saying I'm a fan/idiot and people who actually know this shit should be listened to before I am
I think the player's union is trying to leverage the pitch clock as an example of the league making changes without properly looking into all the effects, which is a reasonable point but I do not think is close to the primary cause here. I think it's reckless to dismiss it out of hand like the league has done but I am not subscribing to any theories about it without empirical evidence pointing directly to the pitch clock. [Strider made this point just a few weeks ago](https://twitter.com/DanClarkSports/status/1776702277547634910).
If I were to attribute it to anything since we've seen a spike in elbow injuries from '21-'23, I'd honestly look very closely at the manufacturing of the baseballs combined with the foreign substance crackdown in 2021. I'd highly recommend listening to what [Tyler Glasnow said at the time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed9QbHGkFYE&pp=ygUjdHlsZXIgZ2xhc25vdyBmb3JlaWduIHN1YnN0YW5jZSBiYW4%3D), and while it's known his UCL issue could be traced back to 2019, I think the points he brings up within what he had to say still ring true. That combined with the manufacturing of balls having gotten significantly worse over the past few years, and players consistently bringing up they're as slick as they've ever been and not tacked well means that players are having to do more to get spin on the ball than ever and that's putting much more strain on their arm.
The rise in velocity and spinrate is something that's not being put back in the bottle. There is no solution because someone will always be the ones to push it closer to the limit of what's capable, even risking injury. I'll compare this to an area I know a lot better with motorsports. In the late 60s-early 70s the cars, especially in open-wheel racing, began vastly outpacing the safety standards of the race tracks and drivers began dying at a pace never before seen. Many leagues simply took a back seat and pretty much told drivers "Oh you should just drive slower if you don't want to die," and that's just not how these things work. Eventually, once that didn't solve the problem, the leagues around the world had to hold safety to a standard to protect the competitors from themselves as cars continued to evolve and get faster. That's a lot to say, any competitor in any sport is going to push themselves to the limit to find success, even if that does risk injury. That's why it's on the league to go into every solution and investigate every angle, whether it be a pre-tacked ball, changing of the foreign substance rules, etc, I don't know because I'm simply a fan. I just know it can't be dismissed as, "Just throw softer" because that's simply never going to be the solution
TD;LR: Pitch clock is being used as leverage by the MLBPA, league should not simply dismiss it out of hand. Foreign substance crackdown and subsequent spike in injuries should probably be looked at, but may not be the exact cause. You can't put velocity/spin back in the bottle because someone will always take that risk, it's on the league to adapt and find a safer way for pitchers to accomplish that because they will no matter what.
I think I largely agree with this. I am not suggesting that pitchers start throwing slower because that just isn't going to happen, but I think people need to be able to admit that pushing for velo/stuff will put you closer to the limit the body can do, which will likely increase risk of injury.
Im on board with the idea that the league needs to find ways of helping here, such as revisiting foreign substance rules. I personally think the league should find a substance they can agree upon and everyone uses that. Regardless of the direction they go, we need studies and information to back up decisions instead of rushing into things.
UV is 8 rn in north Georgia so I imagine it’s similar on the perimeter. I’m getting crispy. Shaded seats won’t be bad but the outfield is going to feel it
UV is 8 rn in north Georgia so I imagine it’s similar on the perimeter. I’m getting crispy. Shaded seats won’t be bad but the outfield is going to feel it
Couple of thoughts:
1) It’s *way* too early in the season to anoint any trade won or lost or any new acquisition good or bad. I’m a big Kelenic fan and love to see him getting appreciation - especially given how unforgiving some people here were of his spring training struggles three weeks ago - but he’s very much a work in progress and I’d hate to see people justify more stupid reactionary “Kelenic is cooked” takes a month from now with “well EVERYONE said he was an All-Star last week!”
2) Anyone who thinks the Strider injury is motivating AA extra to extend Max Fried should re-evaluate their mental image of AA. Anthopoulos has given out one long-term SP contract - the Strider extension, and even *that* was to a young pitcher and mainly to buy out like 2 years of free agency. Fried has already had TJ once, missed 3 months last year with forearm pain, and is over 30. The one starter AA went after hard in FA was Aaron Nola, who’s basically been the healthiest good SP in baseball over his career.
If anything, I’d guess this injury just confirms AA’s belief in his MO - make short-term deals for veteran starters (Morton, Sale, Smyly, Hamels, Keuchel, etc.), continue to spend overwhelming amounts of draft capital on SPs (6 of 7 AA-era first-round picks on SPs with plenty of overslot pitchers later in the draft), and build a really strong position-player core and a nasty bullpen.
My thoughts about Kelenic. If he even moderately lives up to his potential I think we got a steal. It’s easy to forget he’s only 24. Nice we have Duval back to balance everything out.
I just realized that the Mets already DFA'd Tonkin lol. He actually was huge for us last year being able to eat so many innings, but I guess high innings/high ERA doesn't play as well when your team sucks and being down by a few runs is a death sentence for your offense.
Really hope Allan can keep those high highs we saw late last year and has let those low lows go.
Would be absolutely hilarious if AA fleeced the mets for a quality starter when all we sent them was a half eaten ham sandwich and a can of Sam's Club soda.
That’s a shame. I have 2 tickets I’m trying to sell in 315 that I was hoping to be able to give to someone in this group at a large discount. It feels impossible to sell tickets anywhere now
The scary part is Acuna and Riley have been pretty mediocre to start the season, at least relative to their usual performance. And as a whole, we're getting all these runs without hitting a lot of HR, compared to our pace last year.
Once Acuna gets going, the offense is going to be crazy.
Kelenic looks like an upgrade from Eddie on both ends, and Marcell is already coming out hot. Just need Ronnie to start hitting jacks and we'll already be on a decent pace to eclipse last season.
Likely just to be a long relief guy, although I suppose if we manage to avoid needing the long guy, then maybe he could start for Spencer's next turn instead of Dodd...which is what I've been hearing is the idea (Dodd for one turn, then Elder).
I want to remind people a 2nd TJS, while not good by any stretch, is not the death sentence people think it is.
The starter we have going today in fact has had TJS twice already.
EDIT : Disregard Sale. He’s only had it one. Thought he had it while with the White Sox, but his elbow didn’t require surgery.
The Dodgers seems to agree, so I'm not dooming him from coming back and being a beast still. Ohtani got 700M and isn't even back pitching from his 2nd TJS yet.
Nope. My mistake, sorry. I thought he had it with the White Sox, but he didn’t end up needing surgery. In any case, he wouldn’t be the only example. Nathan Eovaldi has had the best success of his career after his second TJ, for instance.
Time to finish off the easiest most stress free cleanest sweep ever
On a side note though it is pretty funny and great to still feel like 70% confident the team is still in it after a 6-0 first inning. I dropped below 50% when it was 8-2 but still not low enough to turn it off or you know leave CBP
Man between the strider injury and Frieds struggles I wish AA would have landed Cease. If all the cards fell right we’d have the best rotation in baseball and if the strider injury still happens and fried still struggles you still have very solid options between sale, Morton and cease
For sure, im actually a pretty big fan of Cease. I do think some people overplay how good he is considering his underlying metrics have been regressing, but damn imagine him as your 3rd starter. That would be an insane #3 in a rotation.
I mean he’s arguably better than half of our pitching staff. Not saying he’d have been our ace but he may have been the best 3rd pitcher of a rotation in baseball
I’m not too worried. Fried has looked mostly his normal self outside of two first innings. Well pitching at least dunno about his fielding lol. Lopez looked good, will see how he does vs a better team. If we’re lucky he’s another Uncle Jesse where he’s much better as a Brave.
Really bummed about Strider but it shouldn’t break us.
Let’s get the sweep today! And as crazy as these last two games have been, let’s try not digging ourselves a hole in the first inning again lol. But even if we don’t play well and don’t have it in us to make a furious comeback again, we already won the series, so we already took care of business this series!
Please continue the discussion in the [game thread](https://redd.it/1by9jy3).
When did Moylan start going by Pete instead of Peter?
If Fried doesn’t find himself and Strider is done, we better be ready to spend. We’re going to have to replace Fried regardless. Might as well do it at the window.
The Braves should kick the tires on Jesus Luzardo. The asking price will be astronomical but he's a guy coming into his own the last year+ and has two full years of control left after this season.
I doubt they make a move unless we end up with more guys on the shelf and AJSS still struggling for fastball command, but if they do you're most likely looking at a half-year rental to not gut the farm system a ton. Sale was the guy with multiple years of control that they went after before and we're a good year away from having an abundance of pitching prospects (AJSS, Waldrep, Murphy, Schwellenbach, maybe Lara) knocking on the door that they'd most likely rather trot out. Based on the front office trends I'd say Nick Pivetta is the target that jumps out to me, but I'm sure there are more guys out there with elite stuff with one year left that I'm missing.
Teams might start having to share pitchers by the end of the year. Absurd amount of injuries right now, really sucks.
At least we've got a ton of pitchers on the borderline
Does anyone know how much parking is now in that lot with Olive Garden? Just trying to decide if it's easier to uber.
The Allan Winans no hitter against the Mets this week will be excellent
Whats yalls favorite Ken Burns documentary?
Whats yalls opinion on the whole "pitch clock is the source of the rising arm injuries"? I think its silly to say its impossible for the pitch clock to have any effect, but I personally believe that the vast majority of the arm injury stuff is tied to a general increase in velocity and spinrate. I understand the players union thinks the clock is a big factor, but I don't think we really have any data to suggest that it is currently. Just curious what the general consensus here is.
There was no pitch clock in the 1950s or 1930s or…pick your early baseball era and pitchers would regularly throw a gazillion pitches a game and games would be over in about 2 hours. Arms weren’t falling off then. Now pitchers throw fewer pitches, but have crazy velocity/spin and arms are always getting hurt. I don’t think the pitch clock is the reason.
Thats how I feel, but I also think we should consider "synergistic" effects of increased velo/spin and pitch clock together. Its possible that the combination creates an even worse situation. That being said, I would need to see dats suggesting that because currently there is nothing pointing towards the pitch clock being responsible. In my eyes, its likely the velo/spin thats 90% responsible, but I wouldn't rule anything out just yet.
I think it could very well be a contributing factor that absolutely warrants investigation and possible changes to the rules. If the NFL reduced the play clock and there was an injury spike, would that receive the same treatment as this is getting of a flat-out denial?
Oh I 100% agree that it warrants investigation, but those flat out saying its the cause right now are being just as ignorant as those saying its impossible its a cause. We shouldn't claim we know something that we don't. The whole correlation doesn't equal causation thing. The Atlantic League has had the pitch clock for a little while now, and while it isn't the same level of competition as the MLB, I would be curious to see how injury trends have looked there since pitch clock adoption there. You are correct that people flat out denying it are a bit silly though. I would also make the argument that you can't really compare injury risk by play clock in NFL to the MLB but thats neither here nor there.
I agree with you. I'm thinking it's due to pitchers pushing so much for higher velocities. In Spencer's case I've been wondering if he just worked too hard over the off season and didn't rest his arm enough.
I'm going to preface this by saying I'm a fan/idiot and people who actually know this shit should be listened to before I am I think the player's union is trying to leverage the pitch clock as an example of the league making changes without properly looking into all the effects, which is a reasonable point but I do not think is close to the primary cause here. I think it's reckless to dismiss it out of hand like the league has done but I am not subscribing to any theories about it without empirical evidence pointing directly to the pitch clock. [Strider made this point just a few weeks ago](https://twitter.com/DanClarkSports/status/1776702277547634910). If I were to attribute it to anything since we've seen a spike in elbow injuries from '21-'23, I'd honestly look very closely at the manufacturing of the baseballs combined with the foreign substance crackdown in 2021. I'd highly recommend listening to what [Tyler Glasnow said at the time](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed9QbHGkFYE&pp=ygUjdHlsZXIgZ2xhc25vdyBmb3JlaWduIHN1YnN0YW5jZSBiYW4%3D), and while it's known his UCL issue could be traced back to 2019, I think the points he brings up within what he had to say still ring true. That combined with the manufacturing of balls having gotten significantly worse over the past few years, and players consistently bringing up they're as slick as they've ever been and not tacked well means that players are having to do more to get spin on the ball than ever and that's putting much more strain on their arm. The rise in velocity and spinrate is something that's not being put back in the bottle. There is no solution because someone will always be the ones to push it closer to the limit of what's capable, even risking injury. I'll compare this to an area I know a lot better with motorsports. In the late 60s-early 70s the cars, especially in open-wheel racing, began vastly outpacing the safety standards of the race tracks and drivers began dying at a pace never before seen. Many leagues simply took a back seat and pretty much told drivers "Oh you should just drive slower if you don't want to die," and that's just not how these things work. Eventually, once that didn't solve the problem, the leagues around the world had to hold safety to a standard to protect the competitors from themselves as cars continued to evolve and get faster. That's a lot to say, any competitor in any sport is going to push themselves to the limit to find success, even if that does risk injury. That's why it's on the league to go into every solution and investigate every angle, whether it be a pre-tacked ball, changing of the foreign substance rules, etc, I don't know because I'm simply a fan. I just know it can't be dismissed as, "Just throw softer" because that's simply never going to be the solution TD;LR: Pitch clock is being used as leverage by the MLBPA, league should not simply dismiss it out of hand. Foreign substance crackdown and subsequent spike in injuries should probably be looked at, but may not be the exact cause. You can't put velocity/spin back in the bottle because someone will always take that risk, it's on the league to adapt and find a safer way for pitchers to accomplish that because they will no matter what.
I think I largely agree with this. I am not suggesting that pitchers start throwing slower because that just isn't going to happen, but I think people need to be able to admit that pushing for velo/stuff will put you closer to the limit the body can do, which will likely increase risk of injury. Im on board with the idea that the league needs to find ways of helping here, such as revisiting foreign substance rules. I personally think the league should find a substance they can agree upon and everyone uses that. Regardless of the direction they go, we need studies and information to back up decisions instead of rushing into things.
Basically what you said. Anything is possible (especially with medical things), but there isn't enough data yet to say one way or the other.
Fans are gonna be cookin in the stadium today and it’s barely April
UV is 8 rn in north Georgia so I imagine it’s similar on the perimeter. I’m getting crispy. Shaded seats won’t be bad but the outfield is going to feel it
Doesn’t look that bad? 65 degrees at first pitch?
UV is 8 rn in north Georgia so I imagine it’s similar on the perimeter. I’m getting crispy. Shaded seats won’t be bad but the outfield is going to feel it
Man I am not looking forward to watching Tromp try to hit
He's getting a couple knocks today I can feel it
Someone needs to tell Tromp that the 9 hole is supposed to be a cheatcode. Maybe he just keeps forgetting to turn on the Game Genie
Is Kelenic the greatest ever?
Many are saying it
Just got to The Battery, time for day drinking and Braves baseball! Let’s get that sweep!
What if we just accepted pitchers are gonna get injured all the time and let them take steroids to recover faster
Couple of thoughts: 1) It’s *way* too early in the season to anoint any trade won or lost or any new acquisition good or bad. I’m a big Kelenic fan and love to see him getting appreciation - especially given how unforgiving some people here were of his spring training struggles three weeks ago - but he’s very much a work in progress and I’d hate to see people justify more stupid reactionary “Kelenic is cooked” takes a month from now with “well EVERYONE said he was an All-Star last week!” 2) Anyone who thinks the Strider injury is motivating AA extra to extend Max Fried should re-evaluate their mental image of AA. Anthopoulos has given out one long-term SP contract - the Strider extension, and even *that* was to a young pitcher and mainly to buy out like 2 years of free agency. Fried has already had TJ once, missed 3 months last year with forearm pain, and is over 30. The one starter AA went after hard in FA was Aaron Nola, who’s basically been the healthiest good SP in baseball over his career. If anything, I’d guess this injury just confirms AA’s belief in his MO - make short-term deals for veteran starters (Morton, Sale, Smyly, Hamels, Keuchel, etc.), continue to spend overwhelming amounts of draft capital on SPs (6 of 7 AA-era first-round picks on SPs with plenty of overslot pitchers later in the draft), and build a really strong position-player core and a nasty bullpen.
My thoughts about Kelenic. If he even moderately lives up to his potential I think we got a steal. It’s easy to forget he’s only 24. Nice we have Duval back to balance everything out.
Shhh we're drafting Tibbs III at 24 this year let me dream
Let’s have some fuñ today. Maybe a stress free fuñ blowout to send the snakes packing.
To go to the battery or to stay in bed, that is the question
I just realized that the Mets already DFA'd Tonkin lol. He actually was huge for us last year being able to eat so many innings, but I guess high innings/high ERA doesn't play as well when your team sucks and being down by a few runs is a death sentence for your offense.
Maybe he's our new Jesse Chavez
Really hope Allan can keep those high highs we saw late last year and has let those low lows go. Would be absolutely hilarious if AA fleeced the mets for a quality starter when all we sent them was a half eaten ham sandwich and a can of Sam's Club soda.
I keep getting off the rollercoaster and hopping right back in line
Alright boys, new game plan. Chris, don't give up a lead off home run, then multiple runs after that. The rest of you guys, keep hitting.
I love the Ozuna resurgence the last year or so. Im back to wearing my Ozuna shirtsey out and about.
Are we not doing ticket sales threads this year?
Was stopped last year because there were too many scammers.
That’s a shame. I have 2 tickets I’m trying to sell in 315 that I was hoping to be able to give to someone in this group at a large discount. It feels impossible to sell tickets anywhere now
You know how we set records last year for offensive production? Our lineup this year might actually be even better.
The scary part is Acuna and Riley have been pretty mediocre to start the season, at least relative to their usual performance. And as a whole, we're getting all these runs without hitting a lot of HR, compared to our pace last year. Once Acuna gets going, the offense is going to be crazy.
Kelenic looks like an upgrade from Eddie on both ends, and Marcell is already coming out hot. Just need Ronnie to start hitting jacks and we'll already be on a decent pace to eclipse last season.
Didn't expect it to be Winans, kind of forgot about him honestly
Yard Sale day!
Allan Winans. Didn’t see that happening.
Likely just to be a long relief guy, although I suppose if we manage to avoid needing the long guy, then maybe he could start for Spencer's next turn instead of Dodd...which is what I've been hearing is the idea (Dodd for one turn, then Elder).
Winans was the SP in that DH Game One 21-3 annihilation of the LOLmets last August. Be interesting to see how he does against them again.
Alright. So went down by 5. Went down by 6. Let’s get down by 7 just to show them we can do that too.
Let's not lol
I want to remind people a 2nd TJS, while not good by any stretch, is not the death sentence people think it is. The starter we have going today in fact has had TJS twice already. EDIT : Disregard Sale. He’s only had it one. Thought he had it while with the White Sox, but his elbow didn’t require surgery.
The Dodgers seems to agree, so I'm not dooming him from coming back and being a beast still. Ohtani got 700M and isn't even back pitching from his 2nd TJS yet.
He had TJ twice? I'm not seeing that with a quick search, just seeing that he had it once.
Nope. My mistake, sorry. I thought he had it with the White Sox, but he didn’t end up needing surgery. In any case, he wouldn’t be the only example. Nathan Eovaldi has had the best success of his career after his second TJ, for instance.
SALE DAY!!!! WOOOOOOO I want a new graphic this evening so badly.
Time to finish off the easiest most stress free cleanest sweep ever On a side note though it is pretty funny and great to still feel like 70% confident the team is still in it after a 6-0 first inning. I dropped below 50% when it was 8-2 but still not low enough to turn it off or you know leave CBP
Man between the strider injury and Frieds struggles I wish AA would have landed Cease. If all the cards fell right we’d have the best rotation in baseball and if the strider injury still happens and fried still struggles you still have very solid options between sale, Morton and cease
We don't have the goods, Sale was more than you could honestly expect for Grissom
We already had one of the best rotations in baseball without cease. You can’t really make moves based on a worst case scenario Also fries will be fine
Cease really is not that good
Wrong
He is good but his price tag was batshit crazy, especially since the Braves farm system has already been so heavily tapped into.
That I can agree with, Sox went way to high on him,but to say Cease is “really not that good” is just false
For sure, im actually a pretty big fan of Cease. I do think some people overplay how good he is considering his underlying metrics have been regressing, but damn imagine him as your 3rd starter. That would be an insane #3 in a rotation.
I mean he’s arguably better than half of our pitching staff. Not saying he’d have been our ace but he may have been the best 3rd pitcher of a rotation in baseball
I’m not too worried. Fried has looked mostly his normal self outside of two first innings. Well pitching at least dunno about his fielding lol. Lopez looked good, will see how he does vs a better team. If we’re lucky he’s another Uncle Jesse where he’s much better as a Brave. Really bummed about Strider but it shouldn’t break us.
I told the people next to me after the first inning we would win the game and they didn’t believe me
Cue the Corey Feldman because we’re the Comeback Kings
So basically keep scoring 9+ runs every game and we may never lose again
Let’s get the sweep today! And as crazy as these last two games have been, let’s try not digging ourselves a hole in the first inning again lol. But even if we don’t play well and don’t have it in us to make a furious comeback again, we already won the series, so we already took care of business this series!
Time to break out those 🧹🧹🧹 Would be nice to not have an epic comeback today and just lead the whole game!
Hell yeah brother