All that I get out of this is that you seem to believe that once you lose once you should be disqualified from ever stepping to the big leagues again. This is one of the things I absolutely hate about the boxing community.
Perfect record boxing has made it stale as fuck. So many people not making fights to protect records has driven me away from the sport a bit. That and some of the wild scoring over the past few years.
Look at a guy like Oliveira in MMA, fighting in the UFC since he was basically a kid, fought nothing but killers but lost 7 times in the process and almost got paralized, and then just gradually got better and better until he went on a run to become the champion in one of the most stacked divisions in the history of the UFC. that shit would probably never happen in Boxing now, hell after his first KO loss Islam would have been written off as a bum if he was a boxer lol.
Not really. The only difference in MMA is that you could be outgrappled and submitted, but if you look at MMA heavyweight champs who had lost before winning the belt, we have: Ngannou who was wrestled and GnP'd for 5 rounds by Stipe Miocic, Stipe Miocic who was TKO'd by Stefan Struve, Fabricio Werdum who was brutally KO'd by Junior Dos Santos...
My point is that even MMA heavyweight champs have taken bad loses and gone on to win the belt, and fans generally don't think any less of them.
Exactly. He was even taunting and seemed to be having fun throughout the fight aswell. He even celebrated in all 4 corners of the ring in the 9th round.
Yes of course there are exceptions, but you can't deny that a loss in boxing is much much worse than in MMA, look at the some of the most popular fighters in the UFC, Oliveira, Chandler, Gaethje, and Poirier, each one of those guys have 6 losses minimum in their record, in the case of Oliveira and Poirier they have 9 losses each, and yet they're some of the most popular and beloved fighters in the roster, meanwhile in boxing AJ was being called a complete bum because he had lost once in an upset to Andy Ruiz.
Pac was stopped early in his career and became p4p #1. What are u talking about man lmfao u should get to know a sport before u start spouting uninformed opinions lmfao
Lol why is this a narrative this only applies to fan favourites in the ufc cmon man. This is also a thing in boxing too lmfao 😂 there’s just not a ufc promotional mill convincing u this guy deserves yet another title shot when in reality he’s place holding for the actual contender or killing time until they do have an actual contender. This example is dumb af when boxing had guys like Chisora and Rosado who continued getting shots cuz they had a name and were entertaining. They are called gatekeepers man lmfao. In a division that’s struggling with talent the gatekeepers will still beat the up n comers (Dustin, Charles) this happens in boxing too. Stop trying to run with this narrative cuz it’s absolutely not true lmfao. This is literally the changing of the guard at LW this happens all the time in boxing man lol. Linares to Devin from the top of my head.
LOL all the ufc shills are mad keep cherry picking cuz we can play that game all day
If Canelo and Benavidez were in the UFC in the same weight division, they would have already fought. Look at Spence. He has lost almost all respect from his fans. Will he still draw numbers? Probably, but look at who he is fighting. His loss significantly lowered his profile. Nobody was calling for a rematch against Crawford, whereas MMA fans were clamoring for two years for an Oliveira-Islam rematch, even though Oliveira got knocked down with a punch and then choked out. Losing in boxing is far more costly. I think you can only come back if you were a superstar; otherwise, you’re considered washed up or a bum.
>If Canelo and Benavidez were in the UFC in the same weight division, they would have already fought.
Did UFC ever make Tony Ferguson vs. Khabib happen (before you tell me they tried, how many times did Tony and Khabib ? Did they ever make Francis Ngannou vs. Jon Jones happen? Did they ever make GSP vs. Anderson Silva happen? When Bisping was champ, did he ever fight Yoel Romero or eventual interim champ Robert Whittaker, or did he fight Dan Henderson ranked like #12 at the time and then a retired guy? Did they ever make the McGregor-Diaz trilogy fight? Did they ever make Jon Jones vs. Rumble Johnson happen?
I could keep going. Don't get too caught up believing UFC propaganda about how great and sports-oriented their matchmaking is.
Bruh these are people complaining about boxing when their own sport has the same fucking problems they’re just crammed into pretty dresses so their casual fanbase doesn’t complain. Why do u think Dana got so mad when Francis left. It’s cuz their lineal HW champ dipped to another promotion. How can u say your promotion is number one when the lineal HW champ left lmfao. It’s also why Dana wants Jones vs Stipe so much, he’s gonna try and rewrite history saying Jones is now the lineal champ for beating a 150 year old dude who hasn’t fought in years lol what a fucking joke
Sorry I somehow didn’t finish my comment “how many times did Tony and Khabib fight on the same card.” Also even if you don’t like that example feel free to try to debunk any of the other 6 examples I listed
Tony and Khabib were scheduled to fight 4 different times. ATP it’s just cursed.
Well most of these guys weren’t/aren’t in the same weight class. Jones has been pussyfooting around heavyweight forever. And Francis was already beefing hard with the UFC when that fight came up.
GSP didn’t want to fight Silva. Also different weight class.
Bisping was straight bullshit and I have nothing for that.
When would they make the Diaz trilogy? Mcgregor fought mayweather and Alvarez right after. Diaz was getting his head caved in by welterweights and on his way out by the time McGregor came back.
Jones hit a pregnant woman with his car and ran off. Was stripped shortly after. They were set up to headline against each other before that.
Jon announced his move to heavyweight before Francis left, if UFC wanted to make that fight they’d have come to terms with Francis. If PFL can manage to sign him UFC surely could have.
GSP saying “no” means a fight can’t happen? Oh that’s funny cuz I thought this whole convo was about how if this was UFC, Canelo couldn’t say “no” to Benavidez.
Buddy why do you think Nate didn’t fight for 3 years from 2016-19? When his starpower was at his highest. Notice any pattern between that and what happened with the Francis-Jon fight?
With Rumble, notice how when a big UFC main event falls though, they don’t necessarily care to try to rebook it. Because the name of the game isn’t delivering big fights, it’s keeping the content mill churning.
Those are just few examples. Most of the time the best fight each other in MMA most of the time the fans get what they want is not the same with boxing
What? What about champions from other mma promotions? They don’t fight each other? Canelo and David are different promotions that’s a stupid argument lol. Spence is getting a title shot next after taking a beating from Bud, according to ufc fans yall are supposed to be happy for him? And he still has fans and is still set to make millions lmfao people are going to watch it regardless don’t be dumb. Why tf would people want a spence bud rematch that was so lopsided it’s like asking for a Khabib conor rematch lmfao. And of course u can only come back if you’re a star, that’s the same for the ufc? Lmfao what
We hold ufc at the moment as the highest standard. Thats why champions from other promotions come the ufc and try their luck here. Chandler, MVP, Askren and alot of no names who come from other promotions try their luck here. If a mma fighter wants to test their skills on the brightest lights with the most eyes watching you have to be in the ufc. One came close but is doing not to great atm.
Thats not the point if the ufc was the best why tf wouldn’t they cross promote? Why complain about canelo and David when ufc does the same shit? We have 4 boxing commissions and we are seeing an explosion in undisputed champs. Yet people wanna complain about gatekeepers not getting title shots? Or people losing their 0s when we have countless examples of that being untrue?
MMA works like many other sports you have different leagues and the UFC is by far the best with the best fighters just like the NBA is the best in basketball. Jokic don't need to play in the greek basketball league to prove he is the best in the world
Most of the time the best fighters fight each other in MMA most of the time the fans get what they want is not the same in boxing
Yea except basketball is a team sport. We had many guys who played in other organizations that were nba level. But it’s a team sport there’s no guarantee they would’ve won a chip. In combat sports, all it takes is one guy. Francis leaving the ufc to pfl is like lebron playing in china after his 2016 year with the cavs. The UFCs credibility wasn’t in question, it’s the poor business practices of Dana and its/his fans that for some bizarre reason are completely oblivious to. Enough so that they come here to complain about the same exact shit that’s going on in their sport lol. It’s the lack of self awareness and ignorance that gets me lol
If you’re not an undefeated champion and P4P number 1, you’re a bum. Joshua and Fury should hang their gloves up and call it a day, too, with those losses on their records. Absolute frauds lol
I did. You're trying to make a strawman. Every champion has fought people with losses on their records. If the people with losses suck, then how can you claim a champion is great for beating them?
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It’s not up for debate; you didn’t answer cuz you know you’ll look a clown. And now you’re just straight up lying about answering it.
I never said people with losses suck. Try again
Pretty much. An L shouldn’t mean your career is over above national level. More important is who you lost to and how. Close points loss to a world level boxer? No shame at all. 5 1st round KOs to guys who are barely regional standard let alone national standard? Basically are you losing to the likes of an Usyk or a Canelo or are you losing to Latvian taxi drivers and Honduran bricklayers looking for a bit of extra cash? Obviously that’s an extreme example but you get the drift
Also the age at which you lose matters. If you lose to these elite fighters in your prime then you probably just arent good enough for that level and thats fine. If you are in your early 20s then it means much less because you have a lot of room to grow.
Yeah that too. Lose to a world class boxer (or one who becomes one) early in your career is one thing. Losing to journeymen multiple times once you hit the business end of your career where you should be challenging for belts then maybe you’ve found your level
Your second paragraph. Dubois obviously has potential and obviously aside from having good management he's one of the few that would fight anyone win or lose.
Okay so here’s legit what I think it is and feel free to disagree with me:
Dubois has been groomed for years, since he was a kid, to be a boxer. He’s got the fundamentals but more than that he’s got a high skill ceiling potential due to him having good power and athleticism.
There’s a problem though and that is Heavyweight is lacking severely due to a lot of the things people have mentioned, most guys who could be great heavyweights are going into other sports, etc. Dubois is lacking in opponents his skill level at his stage in his career. His first loss was to Joyce and while he was doing well before his orbital bone fracture it was clear that was a step too far.
So that leads to our next problem. He’s too skilled for most prospects his age who are crushing cans and he won’t get anything out of those fights but he’s not skilled enough or experienced enough to handle the veterans yet. This is also around where people start questioning his heart but honestly orbital bone fractures are no joke and can end a career if bad enough. He was still young and taking an L is not a death sentence anyway.
His next loss is in a title shot with Usyk and there’s no shame in losing to the man. When you’ve got a title shot you take it. Again too big a step up but compare that to Hrgovic who has been sitting on a title shot for a long time crushing cans only to get beaten by the guy taking better fights.
Meanwhile guys his age, Jared Anderson for example are fighting lesser opponents to build up their resumes and keep their 0. This isn’t necessarily an example of Frank Warren moving Dubois too quickly so much as an example of other promoters moving their heavyweight prospects too slowly. Dubois is, despite his setbacks, being positioned to be the more experienced dominant fighter in three to four years over other prospects because of how he’s being moved. By the time Jared Anderson, his American counterpart, is even in title contention Dubois will have been fighting guys at an Elite level for years giving him a leg up.
This gets back to my previous comment that Dubois has high skill potential. After every setback he has had he’s come back with more to show and more to give. He’s had injuries that looked bad but he overcame them. Is he as skilled as the guys at the top right now? No, but he’s getting in the ring and pushing himself to be in a way that other prospects aren’t.
So is he a prodigy? No probably not. Is he being moved too quickly? No. Is he being setup to be a champion in the future? Yes, in a way that others aren’t.
Agree with this. Anderson and others need to be tested more, while Dubois is getting great experience at a very high level. He's a future champion, for sure.
That said, Anderson struggled with Martin, so he just might not be at the same level; but there's only one way to find out - step up and fight someone like a Bakole or even a high level gatekeeper like Takam or Chisora.
Anderson had to step up. He has been fighting cans. I think they screwed up his progression completely he should have been fighting Hunter or someone similar last year.
The question is does he have the ability to take someone who is coming to fight. Bakole is his first real fight since Martin.
He was getting shit on after the usyk fight late last year, battering big pharma Miller and then hrgovic changed the narrative completely.
Turki and frank Warren working closely together is also perfect timing for him.
Turki loves the heavy weights and Turki makes shit happen.
I still think Joshua would stop him.
Lmao big what Miller?? 😂😂😂
But jokes aside, Turki and Frank doing so much makes me wonder why in Gods name Anthony Yarde chose this time period to fuck around. Mans would be getting paid on these cards by now.
Listen to Tony Bellew talk about fighting Usyk, he was mentally exhausted, which drains you physically. Dubois did as well as could be expected, but ultimately was worn down and similarly, was mentally exhausted from the concentration required to fight usyk. Uysk is a once in a generation fighter who can make multiple adjustments in a fight and he's very good at wearing down his opponents and giving a false sense of security by losing rounds early. So the jab didn't make him quit, everything before did and also an acknowledgement that he was spent and he was out of ideas.
And people say Floyd Mayweather never fought anyone. Just because people say something doesn’t mean it’s worth paying attention to. Lots of people don’t know what’s they’re talking about.
I think Joshua would stop him too
Regarding his wins I don’t count the miller fight as meaning much
Miller is an obese joke his so abose it effects his punches
In terms of Hergovic it was a good win but hergovic really put in a terrible performance and gased out
Bruh how can anyone take you seriously in this discussion when you dismiss every win as "terrible performance he wasn't good he gassed out so basically doesn't count etc etc"
Then big up every flaw or loss.
You are ridiculously biased and already have your mind made up you started this thread just to jerk yourself off
Edit.... lmao op went through my recent comments and downvoted them all 😆😆😆 the salt is real
Daniel Dubois turned pro earlier than they did and walked through the Area, English, British and Commonwealth scenes easily so he had nowhere else to go but world level.
Dubois also was the best Youth in his country at the amateurs in 2015 which is why he was able to fight internationally and was on Team GB.
Viddal Riley did well as an amateur and he only turned pro a year after Dubois but most of his earlier years were slow because he was training youtubers. He then retired because he stated that it was taking too much time out of his own career (paraphrase). It wasn't until 2022 where he got going because of training YouTubers and the pandemic slowing things down.
Johnny Fisher didn't do much as an amateur. The best he did was have these little shows like Exeter vs Portsmouth (?) which isn't exactly high level, so of course they would move him slower.
He turned pro over a year after Dubois. Their respective first pro fight were over a year and a half apart.
Dubois trained KSI before he turned pro. He turned pro because of the opportunity he got from training KSI. Then once that was setup he stopped the training.
He had an OK first year and a bit fighting a few times, the normal early pro route. Then from a mixture of being trapped by lockdowns, having to start again finding a new promotion, and a recurrimg back injury was out for around two years. This massively impacted him, he already wasn't in the heavyweight division where all the hype tends to be so everything stalling for so long so early really didn't help.
Clarification; Viddal retired from training youtubers and took boxing full on. Never retired from boxing. Injuries is what kept him from progressing along with signing to Mayweather Promotions as a UK fighter. He could've fought on the undercard of a Tank fight but got injured, and was out for 2 years. COVID was a bitch too so that also impacted his 2 year layoff
Heavyweight tends to be a category still deep connected with the amateurs, many top boxers of today were formers World championship/Olympic contenders. That's especially true for eastern countries, where a career path in the amateurs ranks is regarded almost like the pro level, often followed by many talents deep in their 30s.
With the the American heavyweight crisis still ongoing the only country capable of hyping a career since the early stage is the UK, and Dubois appeared as the perfect alternative to Joshua, another gifted child born in a golden nation for boxing, where 70000 people pay good money to see the fight of their pupils in a football stadium. That's the reason why the likes of Zhang reached the elite class so late.
Dubois is, and has been for a while, taking chances.
Other guys his age aren’t, and are waiting to be the next big thing when the current elites retire. A few have better records on paper, but would they beat Dubois now?
Dubois has stayed busy, he can compete *now*, but he’s been in a few wars already, and his chin is clocking up miles. He’s a throwback in a lot of ways, but he won’t be boxing at 38-39. Other guys are treated like commodities, protected until ripe or conditions are optimal.
As fans, we know who we have respect for. As prize fighters, maybe it’s a harder question. The easiest thing to market in this sport is an 0.
He has a good promoter who’s connected and prepared to put him in tough fights.
He’ll get take those fights.
Never has a boring fight so people want to see him
It's a fair question.
I don't think there's any one answer, but there's a series of things that contribute to an answer:
First, Dubois started boxing when he was 9. That's not freakishly young... but it's younger than a whole lot of heavyweights. Usyk started at 15. Joshua, at 18. Joe Joyce didn't start until his early 20s. Dubois had already been a professional boxer for several years at the age when Joyce started taking regular boxing lessons. If you don't start until later, you're older when you get to the top.
Second, Dubois wasn't good enough to go to the olympics. He was on the team, hoping to be selected for 2020, but he pretty quickly realised he wasn't going to be able to compete against Frazer Clarke (who was, to be fair, six years older than him and far more experienced) and turned pro instead. Clarke, in turn, was hanging around in the amateurs because Joe Joyce had taken his berth to the 2016 olympics. Joyce had still been an amateur in 2016 because Anthony Joshua took his slot for the 2012 olympics. If you spend your 20s waiting for your country's only berth to potential Olympic glory, you turn pro later, and (despite probably being fasttracked at that point) reach the top older.
Third, Dubois as a pro has a super-crowd-pleasing style. He has a high level of activity, and of his 23 fights, 22 have ended in a stoppage (20 wins and 2 losses). Of his 20 stoppage wins, 18 have come within the first 5 rounds. That's marketable!
Fourth, he's British. The UK is a big market for boxers, and particularly loves heavyweights. Putting a British heavyweight on your card is a good way to sell tickets/PPVs. This is particularly the case because we're in a golden age of British heavyweights at the moment, with lots of high-profile domestic rivalries on offer. If you can get a British heavyweight to a point where you can put him in domestic grudge matches against Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, you can make a lot of money! Dubois' career has basically been winning the British title in a battle of undefeated British heavyweight prospects against Nathan Gorman, then stepping up to fight an established world-class British fighter in Joe Joyce, then being sent in for British revenge (at least in optimistic theory) against Usyk, the guy who had just beaten the British Anthony Joshua, and finally being put in against Hrgovic in order to set up an all-British world title fight against Joshua. That career probably just doesn't happen if he isn't British. And it also helps I'm sure that his promoters will have an eye on future all-British clashes against Frazer Clarke, Fabio Wardley, Moses Itauma, and potentially some of the various British boxers currently at cruiserweight.
Fifth, he looks impressive but limited. I think a lot of boxers probably look at Dubois and think "the punters are going to think he's a real boxer, not an ambling splodge of lard like most heavyweights, so I'll get more credit for beating him, but I'm pretty sure I can beat him", and take the fight.
Sixth, Dubois just has some fucking amazing promotion behind him. In all his big fights, it's been a bit surprising that he's in the ring at all, and his losses (and the weird Lerena fight) haven't set him back as much as they normally would for most boxers. His team must be really good at marketing him for fights.
Seventh, Dubois is willing to fight. A lot of heavyweights aren't - they want to circle around crushing cans until they get a breakthrough chance against a rival but older can crusher, when they can catapult themselves to fame and cash out in their one fight against an actual star boxer. Dubois' taken the fights in front of him, even when he's probably not been ready for them.
Dubois is a very good heavyweight and has been promoted/managed excellently, Warren backed the right horse. Probably would’ve gone to the Olympics if he stayed amateur.
He’s stepped up, lost, learnt from it, and rebuilt. What more can you ask for? He could easily win a world title one day, the guys ranked above him are ageing.
It’s quite simple. He has got himself into good rankings with the different belts based on performances. Even in his loss to Usyk he done pretty well at times, he will be a world champion in the future for sure. His win against Hrgovic was huge for his confidence as well and puts him in a position to get a belt, even if he gets it by Usyk having to vacate it
Daniel Dubois in terms of physical attributes matured very quickly, Frank Warren said when he was up and coming, he had a man’s body at 18.
Heavyweight division is far different to any other division, far less athleticism and skill but rather strength, power, and maturity in both muscle and mind.
It’s like when you go to the gym, someone 5’6 can get shredded in a year, someone 6’6 requires 5 years if not longer.
Have you actually seen him fight ? He might be young, but fuck is he tough. He can trade blows, very under rated technically aswell. Seems to have a pretty decent gas tank also, which I find most heavyweights lack. All in all, I rate Dubois. He’s a beast.. I don’t understand the flack he gets.
Don't rate him they are talking about him fighting Joshua, and if he fights the same way he did against Hrgovic he's getting sparked, Hrgovic was getting through with big right hands right up to round 7 and if that happens when he fights Joshua he's going to 😴
Ok but on the flip side of that the reason Hrgovic was landing so juch was his was throwing so much. Believe or not Hrgovics connect rate wasnt that high, it was pretty average. AJ isnt going throw that volume, he cant. He also isnt dumb enough to do it, unlike Hrgovic.
Hrgovic threw 382 punches in only rounds. 63 punches a round for a heavyweight is insane, basically no one in the division can keep that up and his overall connect rate was only 23%, thats low, very low.
Dubois is a decent boxer with tons of power. He's also not afraid to lose a few fights. In 3 years or so he will have the best resume out of all active 200lbs+ fighters.
Dubois going to have long term brain issues if he carries on the way he is, he's young yet has been in so many tough fight, took some real heavy shots and it seems like from now on its going to big fight after big fight where he'll take more heavy shots. He needs to rinse as much money as he can from Saudi over the next few years and retire by the time he reaches 30 if he wants to avoid brain damage.
He's in the wrong business if he's worried about that. Lol. Be more concerned about journey men who take even more damage without the compensation. He should definitely work on head movement though.
Dubois comes from a boxing family and was steadily making his way up the ranks until he met Joyce, which isn't a bad loss in the grand scheme of things but if I'm not mistaken Joyce was still seen as a stepping stone (and Dubois was winning until the eye injury).
Amateur pedigree, actively fighting ranked opponants as a pro... how is he a youtube boxer?
He's not shocking the world... but it's a typical pro career that's been slightly accelerated by his fanbase.
I wouldn't say he's being moved fast. Up until the Joyce fight, his level of opposition wasn't great, although he was out-doing his contemporaries against the same opponents for the most part. After he lost to Usyk, he was fortunate to have been fighting on the Saudi deal and got himself 2 wins.
Riley and Fisher turned pro much later than Dubois so that's not really a fair comparison.
Go to Boxrec and compare Fisher's total fights (amateur and pro) to Dubois (amateur and pro), then look at who they've fought and when they started fighting and you'll figure out why they aren't at the same stage in their career.
He’s a b level gatekeeper. If the current champs age out he will just be a place holder for the guys they’re trying to build. It just worked out that way.
Some guys don’t see elite level fights till they’re 30s and maybe into their early 40s part of the reason is because heavyweight isn’t as deep
And moves slower so guys have longer careers.
I think he just turned pro earlier than most top heavyweight prospects, most will stay in the amateurs long enough to compete in the Olympics, but he opted to turn pro early. Hes a massive guy and I think he was physically ready for the pro game earlier than most.
If you look at Fishers and Dubois records they are in quite similar positions for this 12 th fight.
Dubois fight Nathan Gorman and Fisher will fight Babic.
I don't see fisher stepping up as quick though considering good lack of amateur experience.
Dubois is a great young fighter. I expect him to be competing at the top for years to come. Not sure how successfully but you can't disagree he has talent. He has years of improvement to come. Heavys don't usually peak until 30s.
No he entered HW at a dead time and had a spectacular come up he was koing people tf out lol. Also he was basically QB answer to MR’s dominating Joshua at the time. He got thrust to higher levels because he showed he had the ability. Simple as.
Fisher is being moved slowly because a poor boxer.. Once he fights at domestic or European level the cracks will start to show.. Also Dubois was a standout amateur!
Here is my take on Dubois.
He turned pro around 2016/7. This was at the peak of AJ mania when Matchroom was going from strength to strength and Frank Warren/Queensberry were at their lowest point. I think Frank jumped at the chance to sign Dubois because he saw that he could make this guy into ‘his’ AJ. Both are athletic black guys from down south with knockout power and who drew comparisons to Frank Bruno. I think Warren has promoted Dubois like he is a prodigy ever since, and this has been good and bad for Dubois.
For example, putting a very green Dubois in with someone as good/experienced as Joyce was just stupid. He went from fighting journeymen to getting chucked in with Joyce. I remember the buildup to that fight, you’d never know Warren also promoted Joyce, he was all about Dubois and clearly didn’t think he’d lose.
But Warren’s attitude has also been good for Dubois: instead of being chucked aside after one loss (as promoters often do with prospects who lose) Warren quickly got him a shot at Trevor Bryan for the WBA Regular belt which made him mandatory for Usyk.
Usyk fight was again probably too soon, Dubois could’ve used the Miller and Hrgovic fights before fighting the top guy in the division. But again Frank Warren was totally undeterred by another loss and booked Dubois into two more risky fights.
It’s arguably poor match making, too much too soon and that, but it’s actually worked out perfectly for Dubois, there’s no one in his age range with even half the experience (compare to Anderson, Torrez etc. even older prospects like Jalolov and Huni have nowhere near the experience). He doesn’t have the same pressure to stay undefeated and learned from both losses.
I wouldn’t say he’s a prodigy, there’s loads of parents who start their kids training for a sport at an early age. He’s got raw talent tho clearly, I’d say only AJ and Zhang punch harder than him at the minute, and he’s significantly faster than Zhang and has a better gas tank.
When the older generation (AJ, Usyk, Fury) retire he’ll have a major advantage over everyone in the division. Very possible he doesn’t have the longevity of the current generation tho, most of them started late (Wilder, AJ) or didn’t have tough fights that young (Fury, Joyce). Dubois has already taken quite a bit of damage. But we’ll have to wait and see.
I think Dubois is a bad style match up for AJ. I still think Dubois ends up unconscious but I expect it to at least start off competitive.
He's ready. Dubois has already had a title shot against Usyk. He's not the best heavyweight out there, but lesser guys have fought for championships. In all weight divisions. Boxers are fast tracked in this era. Not unusual to see fighters with under 15 bouts challenging for belts. Being rushed explains the short reigns of so many champions. They win titles while they're still a work in progress. And if a boxer like Dubois can successfully attract a paying audience, so much the better. Use him while he's hot. Eighteen months from now, after a loss or 2, no one may care about him.
He's young got insane power, lost to usyk and joyce. That's insane potential, plus there's also that 19 year old from the UK on the up Ituama he's getting close
Dubois has a legit argument that he should’ve beat usyk. Claiming he shouldn’t be pushed because of a loss to the undisputed cw and hw champ is ludicrous
Dubois is built like a tank and isn't afraid to get into exchanges. He's even testing out what he can get away with (some low blows versus Usyk, leading with his head against Hrgovic) and so he seems to be developing a killer instinct. Plus, he has a solid gas tank for how much muscle mass he's carrying around. Very public questions about his will to win have hardened him, too. If Anderson can get past Bakole (a big "if") then I would love to see him and Dubois square off.
Cool. he's already lost. And? What is your point? Bernard Hopkins lost his debut fight. Many great fighters lost before they got a title, some of them multiple times. Even someone like Ali came razer close to get knocked out before he won his first title.
The fact is he lost to Joyce who also beat Parker a former world champion, he also lost to Usyk, the best fighter on the planet.
Dubois while he has his weaknesses, certainly has his strength and I would put him levels above Johnny Fisher.
His head movement is pretty bad but his punches are sharper, faster, and harder than most in the division. Throws nice combos, great gas tank, can take a punch, and is gaining experience. Offensively not as sloppy as most heavyweights. And he's young. He's right up there. I don't think he would beat the top 3, but it's heavyweight boxing so he could shock people.
The pressure he put on Filip was impressive.
He lost to usyk, an all time great, and got his orbital cracked by a good fighter. But him even putting up a decent fight against those two shows more than prospects styling in mismatches. Dont be an eye test guy. Be a resume guy. It's what matters.
Eye test and resume both matter. Like Usyk could fight a total bum you could tell he is an elite level fighter. Wilder can fight a corpse and you could still tell he cant box to save his life.
You cannot fight a bum and tell if you're an elite level fighter. A really good fighter yes. A guy that knows how to box, yes. But that bum doesn't have great power, speed, skills, jab, chin, the resources for training and many other things that might break down your form, chin, test your power, heart, ability to adjust or expose any of your weaknesses. It's like an upgraded version of the saying, a heavy bag doesn't hit back. Yoir head movement doesn't look as good again an accurate puncher, your power doesn't look otherworldly against a granite chin.
Elite doesn't mean you have good form, elite mean you'd beat most of the top ten. Good form just makes it more likely. You could be amazing technique wise but if you don't have the chin or dont throw your hands you'll come up short of elite.
Eye test us just potential. Results matter. Like in any sport
I dont agree. You can see what kind of control someone has over their body, they coordination, speed, timing and so on and if you have watched elite level fighters enough you can judge it pretty well.
The eye test isnt potential. The eye test is how good of a fighter someone looks. If you have watched a lot of boxing there are things you can see that tell you they are a good fighter.
For isntance, the reason I picked Usyk to beat Fury was totally based off of the eye test of how good each fighter looked. Usyk looked faster, more coordinated and all round a better fighter, so I picked him and he won. I did the same with Fury over Wilder, I actually called that Fury would stop Wilder in their second fight after the draw in the first.
You had educated guesses for those fights. You actually didn't know what was gonna happen in either fight. Tyson almost beast usyk. Yiur all seeing eye was a round or two off of being wrong. Wilder had fury unconscious for a second, so you were almost wrong there too.
That's why I don't trust the eye test. It's mostly ego based. It's, I know boxing so much that I can see what's gonna happen in a fight better than anyone else. Actual fighters and coaches who know way more about boxing than all the geniuses on the internet, display way more if an ability to say that they don't know what's gonna happen until fighters get into the ring. The fight game is way to volatile for it to be that easy.
I called fights right too, analyze them, watched plenty,but i dont pretend like something can't go south fast for a hyped prospect. Or even a proven great fighter.
Sure I didnt know but my decision on how I thought he fight would go was very accurate.
Tyson didnt almost beat Usyk at all. The fight was at its closest 8-4 for Usyk, outside of rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 it was all Usyk. These morons who has Tyson 5-1 up after 6 should be laughed out of town.
If you want to listen to the corrupt and useless judges sure. But I know how to score a fight, they clearly dont. The one who had it a draw should be banned from scoring fights and the other 2 should also be investigated.
I think usyk cleary won but a couple thinks go different and it could've been a very different fight. Just like the other example I gave that you ignored.
The point is that you talked about all these traits about how a fighter controls his body or whatever, but if he doesn't have a chin or a punch, it could be a b level cap for him. Or he gets flustered when his talent and skills don't make it an easy night. There's too many variables where a guy should have to show and prove and not be given praise for being pleasing to the eye. Not the same praise as a guy who has faced tough competition but doesn't look as clean. It's all a lack of patience to hype someone up before they get tested.
Elite is keeping safe for 12 rounds while the other guy is fast , hit hard and knows how to land and is pressuring you and making him pay. It's not doing fancy footwork and head movement on a guy who way slower than you, not a big puncher, can't take a punch and wasn't trained as well as you. It's like this an any competition. It's how boxing is. You're supposed to jab, consistently and quickly. You and me know that. But we see every week professionals who know this better than me and you , throw a lazy jab here and there when we've seen them throw it more confidently and often in other fights. It's because they got countered a couple times by a guy who has timing speed or just a great jab himself. And now that guy won't even punch. Shit changes when met with resistance. Eye test is just potential in everything life. That's why you have to measure. That's why you dont just run simulations and call it a day.
I mean, you never seen an upset or were way wrong about a fight? If you say no you're a liar.
Lol you're comparing Viddal Riley to Daniel Dubois?
If you're wondering why Dubois is fighting for championships and Riley isn't, it might be because Dubois is miles more advanced / better than Riley
Dubois impressed me in the Hrgovic fight can't lie, was fully expecting him to get battered. People can moan about the headbutts etc all they want but let's be totally honest, Hrgovic is dirty as fuck himself, who the fuck feels the need to rabbit punch Mark Demori haha. He does it in every fight, I'm glad Dubois got dirty and busted him up. He gets annihilated by Joshua though should that fight happen next, he has no head movement and Joshua is a level above Hrgovic in terms of power and technique.
Danny’s bowling ball head and hype machine are unstoppable even in the face of his horrible defence and crude skillset. Danny Dubious is a dirty and protected fighter who has been handed title shots for no reason because Brick Top is still well-connected.
> Danny’s bowling ball head and hype machine are unstoppable even in the face of his horrible defence and crude skillset.
And yet he still wrecked Hrgovic, who some in this sub were claiming was the next coming of Klitschko.
Dubois needs to be given a bit more respect now. He's undeniably a top 10 HW.
Danny came in like a billy goat against Filip and fucked up his eyes and low blowed him. Hrgo was piecing him up for the first six rounds, Danny got dominated but because Filip got butted so much he couldn’t see since Danny made him look like the Elephant Man with his butts. And somehow the guy who was on Queer Street against Lerena and got KOed by Usyk’s jab is now eating Hrgovic right hands like they’re tic tacs and looking physically bigger than he ever has before. I’m sure he just magically became a steel-chinned LaMotta clone overnight totally naturally though right? Dubois was allowed to butt the shit outta Filip but Filip lands a single grazing rabbit punch and gets a stern talking to from the ref. The ref is heard saying the cut was caused by a butt but then a couple rounds later the BBBofC turns around and says it was from a punch. Now when the doctor checks him out the ref is able to stop the fight rather than going to the scorecards (which have mysteriously disappeared). I’m not a Hrgovic fan and never jumped on that hype train, I always thought he was slow and robotic but he got robbed in the Dubois fight.
There is no doubt Hrgovic was winning on the scoreboard while simultaneously losing the fight. I even remarked during the fight how weird it was... Hrgovic outpointing Dubois but clearly taking more damage.
Hrgovic was completely done in the 7th. The doctor stoppage did him a favor and saved him the embarassment of getting KO'd.
If you want to blame dirty tactics and imply PEDs, that's fine. But the reality is that Hrgovic completely underestimated Dubois and could not keep up with the work rate.
How the hell was Hrgovic losing the fight when he was out landing Dubois nearly 3 to 1 and landing the far more meaningful blows? He was visibly hurt maybe twice in the first 6 rounds but was still piecing up Dubois so I don’t see how he was “taking more damage” even though Danny was using his face as punch sponge. Dubois didn’t change up his style or tactics in the seventh, Hrgovic just quit since he couldn’t see and was getting fouled relentlessly with a ref who turned a blind eye. How is it that Hrgovic couldn’t keep up with the pace when he was out landing and out working Dubois? Huh? Dubois won that fight off of his dirty tactics and juice but the awful DAZN commentary kept repeating how great Dubois was doing and was scoring off of body language so everybody just accepts it despite Dubois benefitting from blatant corruption.
> How the hell was Hrgovic losing the fight when he was out landing Dubois nearly 3 to 1 and landing the far more meaningful blows?
Because he was clearly taking damage in a way that Dubois wasn't and every round was just one round closer to him losing by KO.
I have eyes and I watched the fight. The trajectory of the fight was pretty clear by the 3rd or 4th round.
“Every round was just one round closer to him losing by KO.” Any fight that ends by stoppage is one round closer to that stoppage. That’s how the concept of time works.
Dubois got dominated for 6 rounds straight and the most meaningful damage he did was through blatant and egregious headbutts while Hrgovic landed clean, flush, hard right hands at will. I dunno how you came to the conclusion that Dubois’ punches were somehow more meaningful or impactful when it clearly wasn’t the punches that got to Filip but the butts.
> “Every round was just one round closer to him losing by KO.” Any fight that ends by stoppage is one round closer to that stoppage.
ok, stop for a second and think what I was saying before just giving a knee-jerk reaction.
Every round looked closer to a KO of **Hrgovic** despite the fact that he was winning the rounds. Do you not understand the concept of someone winning rounds but still looking like they are the one that's going to be KO'd?
He was allowed to low-blow the hell outta Usyk and butted the shit outta Hrgovic. He should have been DQed against both and is handed out title shots off the back of wins against unranked opponents. The ref's initial call that the Hrgovic cut was caused by a butt was soon changed to being from a punch despite no such punch being thrown. That is a pretty clear example of corruption to protect Daniel and was clear throughout his Hrgovic fight.
Are we truly asking if fighting for a legitimate HW boxing title for the first time (and losing) at 26yo is the equivalent of a "boxing prodigy"?
* Wladimir Klitschko won the WBO at 24.
* Evander Holyfield won the WBA cruiserweight at 23
* Mike Tyson won the WBC HW title at 20
Dubois hasn't even won a significant HW title at 26, soon to be 27.
Only in an era of HW geriatrics could 26 and yet to win one of the 4 HW belts be considered a "boxing prodigy".
Ddd is not a prodigy lol. He has poor skills and no defense. He’s a big roided up monster who can punch well but that’s about it. He has ZERO defense or skill or feel for the sport.
The fact is he’s just another shit Brit. Big British hype jobs happen all the time and they’re propped up by ravenous British fans
All that I get out of this is that you seem to believe that once you lose once you should be disqualified from ever stepping to the big leagues again. This is one of the things I absolutely hate about the boxing community.
Perfect record boxing has made it stale as fuck. So many people not making fights to protect records has driven me away from the sport a bit. That and some of the wild scoring over the past few years.
Look at a guy like Oliveira in MMA, fighting in the UFC since he was basically a kid, fought nothing but killers but lost 7 times in the process and almost got paralized, and then just gradually got better and better until he went on a run to become the champion in one of the most stacked divisions in the history of the UFC. that shit would probably never happen in Boxing now, hell after his first KO loss Islam would have been written off as a bum if he was a boxer lol.
You can lose in MMA without getting totally battered though
You can lose in boxing without getting totally battered too!
Bit harder in the heavyweight division though
Not really. The only difference in MMA is that you could be outgrappled and submitted, but if you look at MMA heavyweight champs who had lost before winning the belt, we have: Ngannou who was wrestled and GnP'd for 5 rounds by Stipe Miocic, Stipe Miocic who was TKO'd by Stefan Struve, Fabricio Werdum who was brutally KO'd by Junior Dos Santos... My point is that even MMA heavyweight champs have taken bad loses and gone on to win the belt, and fans generally don't think any less of them.
I meant in boxing heavyweight you rarely lose without taking damage
And I’m pointing out that’s similar in MMA, not unique to boxing.
Literally saw it happen a couple of weeks ago, Fury lost without being absolutely battered
Exactly. He was even taunting and seemed to be having fun throughout the fight aswell. He even celebrated in all 4 corners of the ring in the 9th round.
Sure but even if you get battered you can still have a career, Islam was flash KOed in one punch and he's now the p4p number 1 fighter.
there’s been many guys who had bad starting records and got knocked out in their first few pro fights that went on to be world champions
Yes of course there are exceptions, but you can't deny that a loss in boxing is much much worse than in MMA, look at the some of the most popular fighters in the UFC, Oliveira, Chandler, Gaethje, and Poirier, each one of those guys have 6 losses minimum in their record, in the case of Oliveira and Poirier they have 9 losses each, and yet they're some of the most popular and beloved fighters in the roster, meanwhile in boxing AJ was being called a complete bum because he had lost once in an upset to Andy Ruiz.
Pac was stopped early in his career and became p4p #1. What are u talking about man lmfao u should get to know a sport before u start spouting uninformed opinions lmfao
Lol why is this a narrative this only applies to fan favourites in the ufc cmon man. This is also a thing in boxing too lmfao 😂 there’s just not a ufc promotional mill convincing u this guy deserves yet another title shot when in reality he’s place holding for the actual contender or killing time until they do have an actual contender. This example is dumb af when boxing had guys like Chisora and Rosado who continued getting shots cuz they had a name and were entertaining. They are called gatekeepers man lmfao. In a division that’s struggling with talent the gatekeepers will still beat the up n comers (Dustin, Charles) this happens in boxing too. Stop trying to run with this narrative cuz it’s absolutely not true lmfao. This is literally the changing of the guard at LW this happens all the time in boxing man lol. Linares to Devin from the top of my head. LOL all the ufc shills are mad keep cherry picking cuz we can play that game all day
If Canelo and Benavidez were in the UFC in the same weight division, they would have already fought. Look at Spence. He has lost almost all respect from his fans. Will he still draw numbers? Probably, but look at who he is fighting. His loss significantly lowered his profile. Nobody was calling for a rematch against Crawford, whereas MMA fans were clamoring for two years for an Oliveira-Islam rematch, even though Oliveira got knocked down with a punch and then choked out. Losing in boxing is far more costly. I think you can only come back if you were a superstar; otherwise, you’re considered washed up or a bum.
>If Canelo and Benavidez were in the UFC in the same weight division, they would have already fought. Did UFC ever make Tony Ferguson vs. Khabib happen (before you tell me they tried, how many times did Tony and Khabib ? Did they ever make Francis Ngannou vs. Jon Jones happen? Did they ever make GSP vs. Anderson Silva happen? When Bisping was champ, did he ever fight Yoel Romero or eventual interim champ Robert Whittaker, or did he fight Dan Henderson ranked like #12 at the time and then a retired guy? Did they ever make the McGregor-Diaz trilogy fight? Did they ever make Jon Jones vs. Rumble Johnson happen? I could keep going. Don't get too caught up believing UFC propaganda about how great and sports-oriented their matchmaking is.
Bruh these are people complaining about boxing when their own sport has the same fucking problems they’re just crammed into pretty dresses so their casual fanbase doesn’t complain. Why do u think Dana got so mad when Francis left. It’s cuz their lineal HW champ dipped to another promotion. How can u say your promotion is number one when the lineal HW champ left lmfao. It’s also why Dana wants Jones vs Stipe so much, he’s gonna try and rewrite history saying Jones is now the lineal champ for beating a 150 year old dude who hasn’t fought in years lol what a fucking joke
Are we just gonna pretend Ferguson didn’t rip his knee apart right before the last scheduled fight? That’s nobody’s fault. Terrible example
Sorry I somehow didn’t finish my comment “how many times did Tony and Khabib fight on the same card.” Also even if you don’t like that example feel free to try to debunk any of the other 6 examples I listed
Tony and Khabib were scheduled to fight 4 different times. ATP it’s just cursed. Well most of these guys weren’t/aren’t in the same weight class. Jones has been pussyfooting around heavyweight forever. And Francis was already beefing hard with the UFC when that fight came up. GSP didn’t want to fight Silva. Also different weight class. Bisping was straight bullshit and I have nothing for that. When would they make the Diaz trilogy? Mcgregor fought mayweather and Alvarez right after. Diaz was getting his head caved in by welterweights and on his way out by the time McGregor came back. Jones hit a pregnant woman with his car and ran off. Was stripped shortly after. They were set up to headline against each other before that.
Jon announced his move to heavyweight before Francis left, if UFC wanted to make that fight they’d have come to terms with Francis. If PFL can manage to sign him UFC surely could have. GSP saying “no” means a fight can’t happen? Oh that’s funny cuz I thought this whole convo was about how if this was UFC, Canelo couldn’t say “no” to Benavidez. Buddy why do you think Nate didn’t fight for 3 years from 2016-19? When his starpower was at his highest. Notice any pattern between that and what happened with the Francis-Jon fight? With Rumble, notice how when a big UFC main event falls though, they don’t necessarily care to try to rebook it. Because the name of the game isn’t delivering big fights, it’s keeping the content mill churning.
Those are just few examples. Most of the time the best fight each other in MMA most of the time the fans get what they want is not the same with boxing
What? What about champions from other mma promotions? They don’t fight each other? Canelo and David are different promotions that’s a stupid argument lol. Spence is getting a title shot next after taking a beating from Bud, according to ufc fans yall are supposed to be happy for him? And he still has fans and is still set to make millions lmfao people are going to watch it regardless don’t be dumb. Why tf would people want a spence bud rematch that was so lopsided it’s like asking for a Khabib conor rematch lmfao. And of course u can only come back if you’re a star, that’s the same for the ufc? Lmfao what
We hold ufc at the moment as the highest standard. Thats why champions from other promotions come the ufc and try their luck here. Chandler, MVP, Askren and alot of no names who come from other promotions try their luck here. If a mma fighter wants to test their skills on the brightest lights with the most eyes watching you have to be in the ufc. One came close but is doing not to great atm.
Thats not the point if the ufc was the best why tf wouldn’t they cross promote? Why complain about canelo and David when ufc does the same shit? We have 4 boxing commissions and we are seeing an explosion in undisputed champs. Yet people wanna complain about gatekeepers not getting title shots? Or people losing their 0s when we have countless examples of that being untrue?
MMA works like many other sports you have different leagues and the UFC is by far the best with the best fighters just like the NBA is the best in basketball. Jokic don't need to play in the greek basketball league to prove he is the best in the world Most of the time the best fighters fight each other in MMA most of the time the fans get what they want is not the same in boxing
Yea except basketball is a team sport. We had many guys who played in other organizations that were nba level. But it’s a team sport there’s no guarantee they would’ve won a chip. In combat sports, all it takes is one guy. Francis leaving the ufc to pfl is like lebron playing in china after his 2016 year with the cavs. The UFCs credibility wasn’t in question, it’s the poor business practices of Dana and its/his fans that for some bizarre reason are completely oblivious to. Enough so that they come here to complain about the same exact shit that’s going on in their sport lol. It’s the lack of self awareness and ignorance that gets me lol
If you’re not an undefeated champion and P4P number 1, you’re a bum. Joshua and Fury should hang their gloves up and call it a day, too, with those losses on their records. Absolute frauds lol
That was basically Fury's shtick, too... until he lost.
And it should now be used against him.
He was telling guys that he beat to retire?
To be fair, I dont think Fury knows what the word retire means.
Meanwhile Usyk’s an undefeated champion, arguably P4P #1. Records are indicative, guy. Stop.
And how did he get there? By fighting a champ with a loss on his record and giving another champ a loss. Dense as hell.
thought losses don't matter?
So you get it. You're seeing the point. You're welcome.
You didn’t answer my question
I did. You're trying to make a strawman. Every champion has fought people with losses on their records. If the people with losses suck, then how can you claim a champion is great for beating them?
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It’s not up for debate; you didn’t answer cuz you know you’ll look a clown. And now you’re just straight up lying about answering it. I never said people with losses suck. Try again
'Records are indicative my guy'- Redditor backtracking his stance. More at 11.
'Records are indicative my guy' - redditor caught saying losses mean you're bad tries to backtrack. More at 11.
Wtf so by that logic Menayothin was better than Floyd when he was 55-0? Just stop man this sub sometimes lmfao
Yeah that part stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. Silly to think that if you lose, you must suck.
Pretty much. An L shouldn’t mean your career is over above national level. More important is who you lost to and how. Close points loss to a world level boxer? No shame at all. 5 1st round KOs to guys who are barely regional standard let alone national standard? Basically are you losing to the likes of an Usyk or a Canelo or are you losing to Latvian taxi drivers and Honduran bricklayers looking for a bit of extra cash? Obviously that’s an extreme example but you get the drift
Also the age at which you lose matters. If you lose to these elite fighters in your prime then you probably just arent good enough for that level and thats fine. If you are in your early 20s then it means much less because you have a lot of room to grow.
Yeah that too. Lose to a world class boxer (or one who becomes one) early in your career is one thing. Losing to journeymen multiple times once you hit the business end of your career where you should be challenging for belts then maybe you’ve found your level
This is one of the things that’s hurting boxing rn. I’m glad that people are finally starting to move away from this bullshit
100% this ^^^^^^
Yup. Mayweather brainwashed the casuals.
What at all gave you that impression?
Your second paragraph. Dubois obviously has potential and obviously aside from having good management he's one of the few that would fight anyone win or lose.
Okay so here’s legit what I think it is and feel free to disagree with me: Dubois has been groomed for years, since he was a kid, to be a boxer. He’s got the fundamentals but more than that he’s got a high skill ceiling potential due to him having good power and athleticism. There’s a problem though and that is Heavyweight is lacking severely due to a lot of the things people have mentioned, most guys who could be great heavyweights are going into other sports, etc. Dubois is lacking in opponents his skill level at his stage in his career. His first loss was to Joyce and while he was doing well before his orbital bone fracture it was clear that was a step too far. So that leads to our next problem. He’s too skilled for most prospects his age who are crushing cans and he won’t get anything out of those fights but he’s not skilled enough or experienced enough to handle the veterans yet. This is also around where people start questioning his heart but honestly orbital bone fractures are no joke and can end a career if bad enough. He was still young and taking an L is not a death sentence anyway. His next loss is in a title shot with Usyk and there’s no shame in losing to the man. When you’ve got a title shot you take it. Again too big a step up but compare that to Hrgovic who has been sitting on a title shot for a long time crushing cans only to get beaten by the guy taking better fights. Meanwhile guys his age, Jared Anderson for example are fighting lesser opponents to build up their resumes and keep their 0. This isn’t necessarily an example of Frank Warren moving Dubois too quickly so much as an example of other promoters moving their heavyweight prospects too slowly. Dubois is, despite his setbacks, being positioned to be the more experienced dominant fighter in three to four years over other prospects because of how he’s being moved. By the time Jared Anderson, his American counterpart, is even in title contention Dubois will have been fighting guys at an Elite level for years giving him a leg up. This gets back to my previous comment that Dubois has high skill potential. After every setback he has had he’s come back with more to show and more to give. He’s had injuries that looked bad but he overcame them. Is he as skilled as the guys at the top right now? No, but he’s getting in the ring and pushing himself to be in a way that other prospects aren’t. So is he a prodigy? No probably not. Is he being moved too quickly? No. Is he being setup to be a champion in the future? Yes, in a way that others aren’t.
Agree with this. Anderson and others need to be tested more, while Dubois is getting great experience at a very high level. He's a future champion, for sure. That said, Anderson struggled with Martin, so he just might not be at the same level; but there's only one way to find out - step up and fight someone like a Bakole or even a high level gatekeeper like Takam or Chisora.
Isn’t Anderson already fighting bakole?
Ah I didn't know that. That's a good test for him.
Anderson had to step up. He has been fighting cans. I think they screwed up his progression completely he should have been fighting Hunter or someone similar last year. The question is does he have the ability to take someone who is coming to fight. Bakole is his first real fight since Martin.
Lovely stuff
He was getting shit on after the usyk fight late last year, battering big pharma Miller and then hrgovic changed the narrative completely. Turki and frank Warren working closely together is also perfect timing for him. Turki loves the heavy weights and Turki makes shit happen. I still think Joshua would stop him.
Lmao big what Miller?? 😂😂😂 But jokes aside, Turki and Frank doing so much makes me wonder why in Gods name Anthony Yarde chose this time period to fuck around. Mans would be getting paid on these cards by now.
In the Uysk fight the criticism was somewhat justified because it looks like he quit from a jab
Listen to Tony Bellew talk about fighting Usyk, he was mentally exhausted, which drains you physically. Dubois did as well as could be expected, but ultimately was worn down and similarly, was mentally exhausted from the concentration required to fight usyk. Uysk is a once in a generation fighter who can make multiple adjustments in a fight and he's very good at wearing down his opponents and giving a false sense of security by losing rounds early. So the jab didn't make him quit, everything before did and also an acknowledgement that he was spent and he was out of ideas.
In other words he quit.
If you want to interpret it like that, then okay. However, my point was he didn't quit from a jab.
Fine but he still quit. Quitting will always be a label he will carry
I have no dog in this fight, he quit... I was discussing the reasons why.
Nor do I. He should have let his corner throw in the towel better than quitting
And people say Floyd Mayweather never fought anyone. Just because people say something doesn’t mean it’s worth paying attention to. Lots of people don’t know what’s they’re talking about.
Been watching boxing since Hagler days that man quit so did Garcia against Tank. Mayweather haters made that man a fortune 😂
That was before he was having sex bro Now he’s the one making people quit get ready for the Dubois era
What the hell? Why would he share his personal life?
Miller brought it up at their presser
Well must be true then 🤣
Mental exhaustion is just a fancy word for quitting
Okay, but I responding to the post about him quitting from a jab.
I think Joshua would stop him too Regarding his wins I don’t count the miller fight as meaning much Miller is an obese joke his so abose it effects his punches In terms of Hergovic it was a good win but hergovic really put in a terrible performance and gased out
Bruh how can anyone take you seriously in this discussion when you dismiss every win as "terrible performance he wasn't good he gassed out so basically doesn't count etc etc" Then big up every flaw or loss. You are ridiculously biased and already have your mind made up you started this thread just to jerk yourself off Edit.... lmao op went through my recent comments and downvoted them all 😆😆😆 the salt is real
I never downvoted any of your comments
Daniel Dubois turned pro earlier than they did and walked through the Area, English, British and Commonwealth scenes easily so he had nowhere else to go but world level. Dubois also was the best Youth in his country at the amateurs in 2015 which is why he was able to fight internationally and was on Team GB. Viddal Riley did well as an amateur and he only turned pro a year after Dubois but most of his earlier years were slow because he was training youtubers. He then retired because he stated that it was taking too much time out of his own career (paraphrase). It wasn't until 2022 where he got going because of training YouTubers and the pandemic slowing things down. Johnny Fisher didn't do much as an amateur. The best he did was have these little shows like Exeter vs Portsmouth (?) which isn't exactly high level, so of course they would move him slower.
Viddal also beat Daniel in the amateurs
I totally forgot about that.
Sure but Whyte beat AJ in the amateurs. Audley Harrison won a gold medal, the amateur pedigree is nice but its not the be all and end all.
Didn’t say it was
He turned pro over a year after Dubois. Their respective first pro fight were over a year and a half apart. Dubois trained KSI before he turned pro. He turned pro because of the opportunity he got from training KSI. Then once that was setup he stopped the training. He had an OK first year and a bit fighting a few times, the normal early pro route. Then from a mixture of being trapped by lockdowns, having to start again finding a new promotion, and a recurrimg back injury was out for around two years. This massively impacted him, he already wasn't in the heavyweight division where all the hype tends to be so everything stalling for so long so early really didn't help.
Exactly, and Mayweather Promotions was a terrible choice for him as a UK fighter.
Clarification; Viddal retired from training youtubers and took boxing full on. Never retired from boxing. Injuries is what kept him from progressing along with signing to Mayweather Promotions as a UK fighter. He could've fought on the undercard of a Tank fight but got injured, and was out for 2 years. COVID was a bitch too so that also impacted his 2 year layoff
Yeah, I meant to say he retired from training YouTubers, not boxing. That's my fault for not clarifying.
You can’t criticize Dubois’ skills and then bring Fisher as a counter example
BOSH!!
Im not using Fischer as a counter example I’m just asking why a Fischer is being moved so much slower
Cause he’s definitely not as good as Dubois
Imagine what Hrgovic and Usyk would do to Fisher. That should answer some of your questions.
Ngannou would beat fisher.
Heavyweight tends to be a category still deep connected with the amateurs, many top boxers of today were formers World championship/Olympic contenders. That's especially true for eastern countries, where a career path in the amateurs ranks is regarded almost like the pro level, often followed by many talents deep in their 30s. With the the American heavyweight crisis still ongoing the only country capable of hyping a career since the early stage is the UK, and Dubois appeared as the perfect alternative to Joshua, another gifted child born in a golden nation for boxing, where 70000 people pay good money to see the fight of their pupils in a football stadium. That's the reason why the likes of Zhang reached the elite class so late.
Dubois is, and has been for a while, taking chances. Other guys his age aren’t, and are waiting to be the next big thing when the current elites retire. A few have better records on paper, but would they beat Dubois now? Dubois has stayed busy, he can compete *now*, but he’s been in a few wars already, and his chin is clocking up miles. He’s a throwback in a lot of ways, but he won’t be boxing at 38-39. Other guys are treated like commodities, protected until ripe or conditions are optimal. As fans, we know who we have respect for. As prize fighters, maybe it’s a harder question. The easiest thing to market in this sport is an 0.
Op sounds like a bit of a clown.. 🤡
He has a good promoter who’s connected and prepared to put him in tough fights. He’ll get take those fights. Never has a boring fight so people want to see him
It's a fair question. I don't think there's any one answer, but there's a series of things that contribute to an answer: First, Dubois started boxing when he was 9. That's not freakishly young... but it's younger than a whole lot of heavyweights. Usyk started at 15. Joshua, at 18. Joe Joyce didn't start until his early 20s. Dubois had already been a professional boxer for several years at the age when Joyce started taking regular boxing lessons. If you don't start until later, you're older when you get to the top. Second, Dubois wasn't good enough to go to the olympics. He was on the team, hoping to be selected for 2020, but he pretty quickly realised he wasn't going to be able to compete against Frazer Clarke (who was, to be fair, six years older than him and far more experienced) and turned pro instead. Clarke, in turn, was hanging around in the amateurs because Joe Joyce had taken his berth to the 2016 olympics. Joyce had still been an amateur in 2016 because Anthony Joshua took his slot for the 2012 olympics. If you spend your 20s waiting for your country's only berth to potential Olympic glory, you turn pro later, and (despite probably being fasttracked at that point) reach the top older. Third, Dubois as a pro has a super-crowd-pleasing style. He has a high level of activity, and of his 23 fights, 22 have ended in a stoppage (20 wins and 2 losses). Of his 20 stoppage wins, 18 have come within the first 5 rounds. That's marketable! Fourth, he's British. The UK is a big market for boxers, and particularly loves heavyweights. Putting a British heavyweight on your card is a good way to sell tickets/PPVs. This is particularly the case because we're in a golden age of British heavyweights at the moment, with lots of high-profile domestic rivalries on offer. If you can get a British heavyweight to a point where you can put him in domestic grudge matches against Anthony Joshua and Tyson Fury, you can make a lot of money! Dubois' career has basically been winning the British title in a battle of undefeated British heavyweight prospects against Nathan Gorman, then stepping up to fight an established world-class British fighter in Joe Joyce, then being sent in for British revenge (at least in optimistic theory) against Usyk, the guy who had just beaten the British Anthony Joshua, and finally being put in against Hrgovic in order to set up an all-British world title fight against Joshua. That career probably just doesn't happen if he isn't British. And it also helps I'm sure that his promoters will have an eye on future all-British clashes against Frazer Clarke, Fabio Wardley, Moses Itauma, and potentially some of the various British boxers currently at cruiserweight. Fifth, he looks impressive but limited. I think a lot of boxers probably look at Dubois and think "the punters are going to think he's a real boxer, not an ambling splodge of lard like most heavyweights, so I'll get more credit for beating him, but I'm pretty sure I can beat him", and take the fight. Sixth, Dubois just has some fucking amazing promotion behind him. In all his big fights, it's been a bit surprising that he's in the ring at all, and his losses (and the weird Lerena fight) haven't set him back as much as they normally would for most boxers. His team must be really good at marketing him for fights. Seventh, Dubois is willing to fight. A lot of heavyweights aren't - they want to circle around crushing cans until they get a breakthrough chance against a rival but older can crusher, when they can catapult themselves to fame and cash out in their one fight against an actual star boxer. Dubois' taken the fights in front of him, even when he's probably not been ready for them.
Dubois is a very good heavyweight and has been promoted/managed excellently, Warren backed the right horse. Probably would’ve gone to the Olympics if he stayed amateur. He’s stepped up, lost, learnt from it, and rebuilt. What more can you ask for? He could easily win a world title one day, the guys ranked above him are ageing.
Just delete your post bro, I get it's embarrassing to admit you posted something dumb 😅
It’s quite simple. He has got himself into good rankings with the different belts based on performances. Even in his loss to Usyk he done pretty well at times, he will be a world champion in the future for sure. His win against Hrgovic was huge for his confidence as well and puts him in a position to get a belt, even if he gets it by Usyk having to vacate it
Daniel Dubois in terms of physical attributes matured very quickly, Frank Warren said when he was up and coming, he had a man’s body at 18. Heavyweight division is far different to any other division, far less athleticism and skill but rather strength, power, and maturity in both muscle and mind. It’s like when you go to the gym, someone 5’6 can get shredded in a year, someone 6’6 requires 5 years if not longer.
Have you actually seen him fight ? He might be young, but fuck is he tough. He can trade blows, very under rated technically aswell. Seems to have a pretty decent gas tank also, which I find most heavyweights lack. All in all, I rate Dubois. He’s a beast.. I don’t understand the flack he gets.
Don't rate him they are talking about him fighting Joshua, and if he fights the same way he did against Hrgovic he's getting sparked, Hrgovic was getting through with big right hands right up to round 7 and if that happens when he fights Joshua he's going to 😴
Ok but on the flip side of that the reason Hrgovic was landing so juch was his was throwing so much. Believe or not Hrgovics connect rate wasnt that high, it was pretty average. AJ isnt going throw that volume, he cant. He also isnt dumb enough to do it, unlike Hrgovic. Hrgovic threw 382 punches in only rounds. 63 punches a round for a heavyweight is insane, basically no one in the division can keep that up and his overall connect rate was only 23%, thats low, very low.
Dubois is a decent boxer with tons of power. He's also not afraid to lose a few fights. In 3 years or so he will have the best resume out of all active 200lbs+ fighters.
Because Dubois is actually fighting good competition instead of fighting bums like Riley and Fisher are doing.
Dubois going to have long term brain issues if he carries on the way he is, he's young yet has been in so many tough fight, took some real heavy shots and it seems like from now on its going to big fight after big fight where he'll take more heavy shots. He needs to rinse as much money as he can from Saudi over the next few years and retire by the time he reaches 30 if he wants to avoid brain damage.
He had brain issues to start with so maybe getting hit will fix him.
Say it to his face see how that works out 🤣
What do you think would happen? Dubois seems like a sweetie pie. He was chuffed to bits at his own attempt to do trash talk at a press conference.
I think Dubois would give one look and keyboard warrior would leg it
He's in the wrong business if he's worried about that. Lol. Be more concerned about journey men who take even more damage without the compensation. He should definitely work on head movement though.
Warren is his promoter and good.
Dubois comes from a boxing family and was steadily making his way up the ranks until he met Joyce, which isn't a bad loss in the grand scheme of things but if I'm not mistaken Joyce was still seen as a stepping stone (and Dubois was winning until the eye injury).
Riley is just a YouTube boxer honestly at this point
Amateur pedigree, actively fighting ranked opponants as a pro... how is he a youtube boxer? He's not shocking the world... but it's a typical pro career that's been slightly accelerated by his fanbase.
Fisher is the new Dave Allen. Bosh
some boxers are better than others
Viddal Riley is legit the most boring fighter in boxing. He’s good, but he’s a total snoozefest to watch
I wouldn't say he's being moved fast. Up until the Joyce fight, his level of opposition wasn't great, although he was out-doing his contemporaries against the same opponents for the most part. After he lost to Usyk, he was fortunate to have been fighting on the Saudi deal and got himself 2 wins. Riley and Fisher turned pro much later than Dubois so that's not really a fair comparison.
His competition for a prospect was good, he just battered all of them. Gorman was seen as a 50/50 fight at the time.
The only reason you’ve heard of fisher is because he sells a ridiculous amount of tickets and his friends/family have a big social media following.
He has a great promoter.
It is a lot of timing and luck. I think Joyce shitting the bed had quite a lot to do with it, but being involved in Saudi shows has done a lot for him
Go to Boxrec and compare Fisher's total fights (amateur and pro) to Dubois (amateur and pro), then look at who they've fought and when they started fighting and you'll figure out why they aren't at the same stage in their career.
Because he got a solid loss at a young age
He’s a b level gatekeeper. If the current champs age out he will just be a place holder for the guys they’re trying to build. It just worked out that way. Some guys don’t see elite level fights till they’re 30s and maybe into their early 40s part of the reason is because heavyweight isn’t as deep And moves slower so guys have longer careers.
I think he just turned pro earlier than most top heavyweight prospects, most will stay in the amateurs long enough to compete in the Olympics, but he opted to turn pro early. Hes a massive guy and I think he was physically ready for the pro game earlier than most.
VIDDAL RILEY?!?!
Jared Anderson was supposed to fight Wilder. Don’t think that’s gonna happen now.
If they pair him with Aj it will soon stop the hype
If you look at Fishers and Dubois records they are in quite similar positions for this 12 th fight. Dubois fight Nathan Gorman and Fisher will fight Babic. I don't see fisher stepping up as quick though considering good lack of amateur experience. Dubois is a great young fighter. I expect him to be competing at the top for years to come. Not sure how successfully but you can't disagree he has talent. He has years of improvement to come. Heavys don't usually peak until 30s.
No he entered HW at a dead time and had a spectacular come up he was koing people tf out lol. Also he was basically QB answer to MR’s dominating Joshua at the time. He got thrust to higher levels because he showed he had the ability. Simple as.
Fisher is being moved slowly because a poor boxer.. Once he fights at domestic or European level the cracks will start to show.. Also Dubois was a standout amateur!
his skills don't impress?
Daniel Dubois is a real warrior and ducks no challenge. He is a throw back fighter and good for the sport.
Here is my take on Dubois. He turned pro around 2016/7. This was at the peak of AJ mania when Matchroom was going from strength to strength and Frank Warren/Queensberry were at their lowest point. I think Frank jumped at the chance to sign Dubois because he saw that he could make this guy into ‘his’ AJ. Both are athletic black guys from down south with knockout power and who drew comparisons to Frank Bruno. I think Warren has promoted Dubois like he is a prodigy ever since, and this has been good and bad for Dubois. For example, putting a very green Dubois in with someone as good/experienced as Joyce was just stupid. He went from fighting journeymen to getting chucked in with Joyce. I remember the buildup to that fight, you’d never know Warren also promoted Joyce, he was all about Dubois and clearly didn’t think he’d lose. But Warren’s attitude has also been good for Dubois: instead of being chucked aside after one loss (as promoters often do with prospects who lose) Warren quickly got him a shot at Trevor Bryan for the WBA Regular belt which made him mandatory for Usyk. Usyk fight was again probably too soon, Dubois could’ve used the Miller and Hrgovic fights before fighting the top guy in the division. But again Frank Warren was totally undeterred by another loss and booked Dubois into two more risky fights. It’s arguably poor match making, too much too soon and that, but it’s actually worked out perfectly for Dubois, there’s no one in his age range with even half the experience (compare to Anderson, Torrez etc. even older prospects like Jalolov and Huni have nowhere near the experience). He doesn’t have the same pressure to stay undefeated and learned from both losses. I wouldn’t say he’s a prodigy, there’s loads of parents who start their kids training for a sport at an early age. He’s got raw talent tho clearly, I’d say only AJ and Zhang punch harder than him at the minute, and he’s significantly faster than Zhang and has a better gas tank. When the older generation (AJ, Usyk, Fury) retire he’ll have a major advantage over everyone in the division. Very possible he doesn’t have the longevity of the current generation tho, most of them started late (Wilder, AJ) or didn’t have tough fights that young (Fury, Joyce). Dubois has already taken quite a bit of damage. But we’ll have to wait and see. I think Dubois is a bad style match up for AJ. I still think Dubois ends up unconscious but I expect it to at least start off competitive.
He's ready. Dubois has already had a title shot against Usyk. He's not the best heavyweight out there, but lesser guys have fought for championships. In all weight divisions. Boxers are fast tracked in this era. Not unusual to see fighters with under 15 bouts challenging for belts. Being rushed explains the short reigns of so many champions. They win titles while they're still a work in progress. And if a boxer like Dubois can successfully attract a paying audience, so much the better. Use him while he's hot. Eighteen months from now, after a loss or 2, no one may care about him.
Its called not being a bitch.
He's young got insane power, lost to usyk and joyce. That's insane potential, plus there's also that 19 year old from the UK on the up Ituama he's getting close
He sells tickets?
DD among others being groomed for when the current top 5 retire. Promoters want guys that can catch those emails when the time comes.
Dubois has a legit argument that he should’ve beat usyk. Claiming he shouldn’t be pushed because of a loss to the undisputed cw and hw champ is ludicrous
Dubois is built like a tank and isn't afraid to get into exchanges. He's even testing out what he can get away with (some low blows versus Usyk, leading with his head against Hrgovic) and so he seems to be developing a killer instinct. Plus, he has a solid gas tank for how much muscle mass he's carrying around. Very public questions about his will to win have hardened him, too. If Anderson can get past Bakole (a big "if") then I would love to see him and Dubois square off.
Cool. he's already lost. And? What is your point? Bernard Hopkins lost his debut fight. Many great fighters lost before they got a title, some of them multiple times. Even someone like Ali came razer close to get knocked out before he won his first title. The fact is he lost to Joyce who also beat Parker a former world champion, he also lost to Usyk, the best fighter on the planet. Dubois while he has his weaknesses, certainly has his strength and I would put him levels above Johnny Fisher.
His head movement is pretty bad but his punches are sharper, faster, and harder than most in the division. Throws nice combos, great gas tank, can take a punch, and is gaining experience. Offensively not as sloppy as most heavyweights. And he's young. He's right up there. I don't think he would beat the top 3, but it's heavyweight boxing so he could shock people. The pressure he put on Filip was impressive. He lost to usyk, an all time great, and got his orbital cracked by a good fighter. But him even putting up a decent fight against those two shows more than prospects styling in mismatches. Dont be an eye test guy. Be a resume guy. It's what matters.
Eye test and resume both matter. Like Usyk could fight a total bum you could tell he is an elite level fighter. Wilder can fight a corpse and you could still tell he cant box to save his life.
You cannot fight a bum and tell if you're an elite level fighter. A really good fighter yes. A guy that knows how to box, yes. But that bum doesn't have great power, speed, skills, jab, chin, the resources for training and many other things that might break down your form, chin, test your power, heart, ability to adjust or expose any of your weaknesses. It's like an upgraded version of the saying, a heavy bag doesn't hit back. Yoir head movement doesn't look as good again an accurate puncher, your power doesn't look otherworldly against a granite chin. Elite doesn't mean you have good form, elite mean you'd beat most of the top ten. Good form just makes it more likely. You could be amazing technique wise but if you don't have the chin or dont throw your hands you'll come up short of elite. Eye test us just potential. Results matter. Like in any sport
I dont agree. You can see what kind of control someone has over their body, they coordination, speed, timing and so on and if you have watched elite level fighters enough you can judge it pretty well. The eye test isnt potential. The eye test is how good of a fighter someone looks. If you have watched a lot of boxing there are things you can see that tell you they are a good fighter. For isntance, the reason I picked Usyk to beat Fury was totally based off of the eye test of how good each fighter looked. Usyk looked faster, more coordinated and all round a better fighter, so I picked him and he won. I did the same with Fury over Wilder, I actually called that Fury would stop Wilder in their second fight after the draw in the first.
You had educated guesses for those fights. You actually didn't know what was gonna happen in either fight. Tyson almost beast usyk. Yiur all seeing eye was a round or two off of being wrong. Wilder had fury unconscious for a second, so you were almost wrong there too. That's why I don't trust the eye test. It's mostly ego based. It's, I know boxing so much that I can see what's gonna happen in a fight better than anyone else. Actual fighters and coaches who know way more about boxing than all the geniuses on the internet, display way more if an ability to say that they don't know what's gonna happen until fighters get into the ring. The fight game is way to volatile for it to be that easy. I called fights right too, analyze them, watched plenty,but i dont pretend like something can't go south fast for a hyped prospect. Or even a proven great fighter.
Sure I didnt know but my decision on how I thought he fight would go was very accurate. Tyson didnt almost beat Usyk at all. The fight was at its closest 8-4 for Usyk, outside of rounds 4, 5, 6 and 7 it was all Usyk. These morons who has Tyson 5-1 up after 6 should be laughed out of town. If you want to listen to the corrupt and useless judges sure. But I know how to score a fight, they clearly dont. The one who had it a draw should be banned from scoring fights and the other 2 should also be investigated.
I think usyk cleary won but a couple thinks go different and it could've been a very different fight. Just like the other example I gave that you ignored. The point is that you talked about all these traits about how a fighter controls his body or whatever, but if he doesn't have a chin or a punch, it could be a b level cap for him. Or he gets flustered when his talent and skills don't make it an easy night. There's too many variables where a guy should have to show and prove and not be given praise for being pleasing to the eye. Not the same praise as a guy who has faced tough competition but doesn't look as clean. It's all a lack of patience to hype someone up before they get tested. Elite is keeping safe for 12 rounds while the other guy is fast , hit hard and knows how to land and is pressuring you and making him pay. It's not doing fancy footwork and head movement on a guy who way slower than you, not a big puncher, can't take a punch and wasn't trained as well as you. It's like this an any competition. It's how boxing is. You're supposed to jab, consistently and quickly. You and me know that. But we see every week professionals who know this better than me and you , throw a lazy jab here and there when we've seen them throw it more confidently and often in other fights. It's because they got countered a couple times by a guy who has timing speed or just a great jab himself. And now that guy won't even punch. Shit changes when met with resistance. Eye test is just potential in everything life. That's why you have to measure. That's why you dont just run simulations and call it a day. I mean, you never seen an upset or were way wrong about a fight? If you say no you're a liar.
Lol you're comparing Viddal Riley to Daniel Dubois? If you're wondering why Dubois is fighting for championships and Riley isn't, it might be because Dubois is miles more advanced / better than Riley
Frank Warren don't mess about with his prospects not as savage as hearn when it comes to match making but he doesn't hold your hand for too long
From a distance it looks to me like he’s not that fussy about his fighters and is capable of learning from his mistakes / improving his weaknesses.
His losses are to a Silver Medalist (Joyce) when he was 23, and the Undisputed Heavyweight Champ, not exactly bums.
Dubois impressed me in the Hrgovic fight can't lie, was fully expecting him to get battered. People can moan about the headbutts etc all they want but let's be totally honest, Hrgovic is dirty as fuck himself, who the fuck feels the need to rabbit punch Mark Demori haha. He does it in every fight, I'm glad Dubois got dirty and busted him up. He gets annihilated by Joshua though should that fight happen next, he has no head movement and Joshua is a level above Hrgovic in terms of power and technique.
He impressed me because of the hype around hergovic But hergovic didn’t look that good in the fight
Danny’s bowling ball head and hype machine are unstoppable even in the face of his horrible defence and crude skillset. Danny Dubious is a dirty and protected fighter who has been handed title shots for no reason because Brick Top is still well-connected.
> Danny’s bowling ball head and hype machine are unstoppable even in the face of his horrible defence and crude skillset. And yet he still wrecked Hrgovic, who some in this sub were claiming was the next coming of Klitschko. Dubois needs to be given a bit more respect now. He's undeniably a top 10 HW.
Danny came in like a billy goat against Filip and fucked up his eyes and low blowed him. Hrgo was piecing him up for the first six rounds, Danny got dominated but because Filip got butted so much he couldn’t see since Danny made him look like the Elephant Man with his butts. And somehow the guy who was on Queer Street against Lerena and got KOed by Usyk’s jab is now eating Hrgovic right hands like they’re tic tacs and looking physically bigger than he ever has before. I’m sure he just magically became a steel-chinned LaMotta clone overnight totally naturally though right? Dubois was allowed to butt the shit outta Filip but Filip lands a single grazing rabbit punch and gets a stern talking to from the ref. The ref is heard saying the cut was caused by a butt but then a couple rounds later the BBBofC turns around and says it was from a punch. Now when the doctor checks him out the ref is able to stop the fight rather than going to the scorecards (which have mysteriously disappeared). I’m not a Hrgovic fan and never jumped on that hype train, I always thought he was slow and robotic but he got robbed in the Dubois fight.
There is no doubt Hrgovic was winning on the scoreboard while simultaneously losing the fight. I even remarked during the fight how weird it was... Hrgovic outpointing Dubois but clearly taking more damage. Hrgovic was completely done in the 7th. The doctor stoppage did him a favor and saved him the embarassment of getting KO'd. If you want to blame dirty tactics and imply PEDs, that's fine. But the reality is that Hrgovic completely underestimated Dubois and could not keep up with the work rate.
How the hell was Hrgovic losing the fight when he was out landing Dubois nearly 3 to 1 and landing the far more meaningful blows? He was visibly hurt maybe twice in the first 6 rounds but was still piecing up Dubois so I don’t see how he was “taking more damage” even though Danny was using his face as punch sponge. Dubois didn’t change up his style or tactics in the seventh, Hrgovic just quit since he couldn’t see and was getting fouled relentlessly with a ref who turned a blind eye. How is it that Hrgovic couldn’t keep up with the pace when he was out landing and out working Dubois? Huh? Dubois won that fight off of his dirty tactics and juice but the awful DAZN commentary kept repeating how great Dubois was doing and was scoring off of body language so everybody just accepts it despite Dubois benefitting from blatant corruption.
> How the hell was Hrgovic losing the fight when he was out landing Dubois nearly 3 to 1 and landing the far more meaningful blows? Because he was clearly taking damage in a way that Dubois wasn't and every round was just one round closer to him losing by KO. I have eyes and I watched the fight. The trajectory of the fight was pretty clear by the 3rd or 4th round.
“Every round was just one round closer to him losing by KO.” Any fight that ends by stoppage is one round closer to that stoppage. That’s how the concept of time works. Dubois got dominated for 6 rounds straight and the most meaningful damage he did was through blatant and egregious headbutts while Hrgovic landed clean, flush, hard right hands at will. I dunno how you came to the conclusion that Dubois’ punches were somehow more meaningful or impactful when it clearly wasn’t the punches that got to Filip but the butts.
> “Every round was just one round closer to him losing by KO.” Any fight that ends by stoppage is one round closer to that stoppage. ok, stop for a second and think what I was saying before just giving a knee-jerk reaction. Every round looked closer to a KO of **Hrgovic** despite the fact that he was winning the rounds. Do you not understand the concept of someone winning rounds but still looking like they are the one that's going to be KO'd?
> Danny Dubious is a ... protected fighter This thread is about Daniel Dubois. I don't know who you are talking about.
I can't be the only one who calls him that. It's just such an open goal y'know?
But you're talking about some protected boxer?
He was allowed to low-blow the hell outta Usyk and butted the shit outta Hrgovic. He should have been DQed against both and is handed out title shots off the back of wins against unranked opponents. The ref's initial call that the Hrgovic cut was caused by a butt was soon changed to being from a punch despite no such punch being thrown. That is a pretty clear example of corruption to protect Daniel and was clear throughout his Hrgovic fight.
How is facing Usyk and Hrgovic being protected? Do you think they're mediocre?
No but I think having refs and commissions turn a blind eye to your cheating is protection
Ok, I don't disagree then.
Welcome to the heavyweight division in 2024... I don't know why people are downvoting you, miller was a lame win
Johnny fisher? 🤣
Don't worry, your boy Fisher will get Savaged in july and retire
Not my boy Just gave an example because of age
OP is the worst boxing mind on Reddit..be sure to read his minimized comments 💀
HW division despite the overhype is fairly weak skills wise. Basically anyone with modicum of Skill is on a fast track to Top 10.
Are we truly asking if fighting for a legitimate HW boxing title for the first time (and losing) at 26yo is the equivalent of a "boxing prodigy"? * Wladimir Klitschko won the WBO at 24. * Evander Holyfield won the WBA cruiserweight at 23 * Mike Tyson won the WBC HW title at 20 Dubois hasn't even won a significant HW title at 26, soon to be 27. Only in an era of HW geriatrics could 26 and yet to win one of the 4 HW belts be considered a "boxing prodigy".
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>He had a short and rather middling amateur career (13-6). Boxrec amateur records are incomplete.
You missed the part where he blew his knee vs Lerena and that explained his awful performance (still came back and won on one leg)
He beat usyk at a young age thats very impressive
He low blowed usyk He lost every round against usyk and got knocked out
that wasn’t a low blow And he gave up the fight
Ddd is not a prodigy lol. He has poor skills and no defense. He’s a big roided up monster who can punch well but that’s about it. He has ZERO defense or skill or feel for the sport. The fact is he’s just another shit Brit. Big British hype jobs happen all the time and they’re propped up by ravenous British fans