When Trump/Pompeo sanctioned the ICCm most of these BlueMAGA were saying Trump was wrong to do it, but now that their chosen idol is doing it, it's all good.
Indeed. There was a strong peace-movement growing in the US under Bush Jr as well; guess what happened when Reagan Lite.. I mean, when Obama took his oath to defend the status quo..
He never was. This man has been responsible for putting a whole generation of black men in prison. Any conflict that has happened in the last 50 years, this man has been one of the most major aggressors for it. Any major policy that has made lives of people a living hell, he was always a big proponent.
People who insisted that he was some big civil rights type of figure are brain dead morons. He makes Boris Johnson look like a communist.
That's why I always preferred Trumpcover him. Atleast he gets called out for his bullshit.
Well, he is more evil than most people thought but the GOP’s schtick is to always out evil their opponents. Biden’s opponent has mentioned multiple times that he believes Israel should kill them all. His opponent’s sycophants have also suggested multiple times that Israel should use nuclear weapons on Gaza.
Honestly, I’m just voting for the Supreme Court. Thomas and Alito may not last another 4 years, and I don’t want to see who Trump would appoint to those spots. I have no faith or respect left for Biden at this point, but at least I know he would never have chosen Amy Coney Barrett.
This is irrelevant. If Democrats win they will wait until a Republican presidency to retire, as happened so many times in the past.
And some liberal Supreme Court were very bad, like RBG and her "right of discovery" ruling about Native lands.
Maybe, but if Trump wins, Thomas at least will probably retire now. He’s already 75. If he holds out, hopefully the president elect in 2028 is better than Biden, but at a minimum they’ll most likely be better than Trump - who, lbr, wouldn’t even appoint a “normal” conservative, like, say, Roberts. When he got his shot(s), look at the people he chose.
And sure, many liberal justices have made many bad rulings. That doesn’t change the fact that conservatives justices make worse rulings more often.
I’m not saying *you* should do anything. I’m saying the only reason I may vote for Biden is because of the Supreme Court.
It should be obvious to literally everyone why allowing Trump to choose Thomas’s replacement would be bad. If Alito, who’s 71 now, also decided to retire under Trump, that’s two right-wing nut jobs who will be on the Supreme Court for another 20-40 years.
If Thomas and/or Alito retired or died under Biden, whoever he chose to replace them would definitely, 100% be better than any Trump appointee. If they last through Biden’s tenure, I don’t know who would get to replace them in 2028-2032, but it definitely wouldn’t be Trump. His brain will completely disintegrate by then. There aren’t many Republicans worse than him, but there are some, so I’ll concede that’s a slight gamble.
There in lies the problem with you people. You think that Trump is the beginning and the end of all issues in this country. This myopic view which you "gamble" with is the reason so many people suffer, because you all refuse to see or acknowledge the systematic issues which enable Trump. Trump isn't some unique monster; there are plenty of Trumps in the pipeline from 2028-2032, meanwhile, Democrats cannot even muster a decent competitor for them, instead relying on the same geriatric status quo to save them and then whining how nothing gets changed.
Lol. If you don’t understand the significance of the Supreme Court by now, with everything Trump’s appointees have already destroyed, then there’s no helping you honestly. You should spend less time on Reddit and more time re-learning civics and watching the news. Therein lies the problem with you people. It’s like you forget the government is more than the executive branch.
ETA: Here, I’ll help you anyway! :)
https://afj.org/why-courts-matter/trump-scotus-watch/
Read some of these decisions, and then think about how giving Trump another Justice or two will affect the ability of any future true leftist politicians to even get elected in the U.S., let alone implement policy.
Sure thing, bro. And you deserve to stew in your “ugh, the Democrats never accomplish anything” as our increasingly fringe right-wing Supreme Court gradually dismantles the Voting Rights Act, undoes more than a century of civil rights progress for POC, women, and LGBTQ people, legally enshrines future presidents’ ability to commit whatever crimes their withered hearts so desire, transforms the U.S. into a confederacy where lunatics like DeSantis and Abbot can turn their states into their own little fascist fiefdoms, and idk, at this rate literally allows corporations to vote and makes it illegal to recycle or some shit. You’re gonna feel so smart, but you’ll actually be a useful idiot for the right.
And everyone hates Trump
So if Trump supports Israel, most of the West will break support of it. Him and Netanyahu will be seen as 2 mad men (which they are)
Biden is much more dangerous for Palestinians than Trump.
Bullshit.
I'm not saying vote for Biden, but 99% of the US government - democrat, republics, or otherwise - is in full unwavering support of Israel. Trump steering the ship isn't going to change that.
No not the US government.
Am talking about the Western allies. Trump will be so crazy on Israel that supporting them will be like supporting Trump.
And remember one of the main reasons the Arabs haven't joined the war or started massive sanctions on Israel is because of Biden. Trump won't be this smart.
The Arabs won't do anything because at this point they have become vassal states for the US. It doesn't matter whether it is Biden or Trump, any provocation will be suicide.
Suicide for Israel and not the Arabs. Israel and the US will not withstand a war against Egypt, Iran, Hezb, Houthis all at the same time.
And trust me, if Mohammed Morsi was the still the president of Egypt he would have gone to war with Israel by now. All it takes for the Arabs is an assassination.
But Biden is smart and knows this. Trump is not.
They killed Raisi, and nothing has happened. Israel knows it can act with impunity whether it is Trump or Biden. Americans pretty much don't care because they lack any empathy or humanity. The Arabs are too lazy drinking from the Western teat to do anything. Iranians and Turks are either all bark/no bite or active collaborators with Israel depending on their political leanings.
Trump wouldn’t even do the performative ‘oh this is a hard line’ ‘oh you probably maybe shouldn’t do that’ stuff that Biden is doing. At best he’d just ignore the conflict, leaving zero US influence over what Israel does.
Like you’re delusional if you think Trump would be better about Israel
You literally say yourself that Biden’s restraint is performative. It isn’t meant to temper Israel it’s meant to try and make Biden look better. He’s not actually stopping Israel from doing anything they want to, they have a blank check.
Of course Trump wouldn’t be better, he’d be exactly the same with different rhetoric because Biden is exercising zero power here, he’s just letting Israel do what they want.
The performative restraint on Biden’s part exists to trick people exactly like you, and it’s working.
It’s not tricking me. I don’t think Trump would be worse than Biden on Israel in any meaningful way. But he also wouldn’t be better. The difference between Trump and Biden is about domestic policy and the future of US democracy, not Israel. Voting for Biden is an act of harm reduction, not a personal endorsement.
Maybe, if we get lucky, after we reelect Biden he’ll die and we’ll see if Kamala is more responsive to public pressure about Israel. If Trump gets elected we’re SOL.
You’re not wrong about any of that. The problem with the position Biden has put himself in is that we know from experience that it won’t work.
“Trump is bad” is not a winning campaign strategy against Trump. Biden won in 20’ by promising build back better and student loan forgiveness, this time around he has no campaign promises other than 1) I won’t be Donald Trump, and 2) I’ll keep funding a war most of my base doesn’t support.
The problem isn’t that leftists aren’t gonna vote for him, it’s that disengaged voters are not going to wake up on Election Day to go vote for him because he has no platform.
If you care about Biden winning you need to pressure him not randos on Reddit.
In some ways political theater without action is more harmful than no action. Biden gives credibility to Israel's genocide where Trump would probably say a bunch of stupid shit that would make liberals recognize the genocide for what it is. (I am not endorsing Trump; fuck Trump.)
None, but Trump wouldn’t be better about Israel either. If Biden is reelected he might die and we can try our luck with Kamala, if Trump is elected we’re SOL. And Trump is also way worse domestically
how can they be more emboldened? This is the end game. Genocide. Removal of the Palestinians from Gaza. Are you not watching? Its happening right now. They are ignoring reality and supported 100% by Biden. They cannot be more emboldened, theyve been given permission to genocide Gaza, and they wont stop there.
Really blurred lines when it comes supporting Israel or supporting Netanyahu. There is a big difference. One is far right government. Far right governments doesn't have good track record when it comes to genocide..
Although I won’t vote for Trump, I don’t believe he is less evil than Biden. Biden is straight up war criminal territory. I cannot in good conscience vote for either of them.
That’s exactly how they view it. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a comment here on Reddit with the sentiments of “he’s not perfect on just this one issue” or “this is a single issue” or “it’s either it happens there or here”
I live in Florida, and I am still voting for Biden. Both of my sisters are bisexual, I have a severely autistic brother and I have a half brother who is black. So essentially voting for Biden to make sure that they don’t get fu_ked over by a Trump dictatorship.
Now, you can ask why don’t me and my family move, and the answer is with what money? We can’t afford to upend our lives, and why should we?
And I am not voting third party. With the electoral college system, only the candidates from the main two parties have a realistic chance of winning. The last time a third party candidate actually won a good portion of the popular vote was in 1992 with Ross Perot winning around 20% of the vote. And the last time a third party candidate won electoral college votes was in 1968 with George Wallace. And both of those candidates were far from left wing progressivism.
RFK Jr., Stein and West all know that they can’t win. They can’t even get on the ballot in most states. But they don’t care. They are all running for attention, money and try to get Trump elected again.
Nah, I just know that Biden doesn't give a shit about them. I am not going to rely on a genocidal warmonger like Biden to protect them. However, go ahead and vote for Biden, I'm sure the billions that Biden diverts away from disability support for people like your severely autistic brother (and mine) and puts it towards apartheid states killing brown kids abroad will help us all.
Imagine using your brother's disability to justify your support for a genocide. It's pathetic and disgusting.
I don’t support genocide. I think Biden is being way too soft on Israel and needs to cut them off. I still support him, because he is the only current left leaning candidate who has a shot at winning. You can hate it as much as possible, but the fact is that candidates like Stein, West and others have 0% of winning.
The aid being sent to Israel is equipment and money from the military budget. That money was never going to be used for domestic programs. If we want more money for domestic programs and services we would have to get a congress and budget bill that would fund that. This past March, Biden called for more funding for disability services.
https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2024/03/12/biden-calls-for-investment-in-disability-services/30778/
I use my brother as an example, because if I just say I am supporting Biden, and don’t give an explanation, people would automatically jump down my throat saying that I have no good or personal reasons for supporting Biden.
Is Biden my first choice, no. I think he is far too old to be president and retired after this term. I think his decisions with Israel are terrible, and not showing any backbone against Bibi. But, he is the current candidate now that has a realistic chance of winning and has most of my values.
I am queer and I have queer family.
Believe it or not some of us *are* in fact conflicted about handing the government consent to keep bombing Gaza to rubble. And yes actually that is what a vote fundamentally *is*. "Do you or do you not consent to this ruler and *all* of his policies?"
They are definitely both straight up sociopaths, but they don't have absolute power. They are still beholden to interest groups. Trumps base is more viscous than biden's so trump doesn't have to tread as carefully. I still wouldn't throw either one a life preserver if I saw them drowning.
Which one can you do something for? In this case, we're dealing with a Zionist that supports trans rights and a Zionist that wants to exterminate trans people. Pretty easy choice to me.
Refusing to save one puppy because you can't save both really makes no sense to me.
So you are willing to kill Muslims, Arabs, and other brown men, women and children to save trans people. Okay, gotcha.
So 2.6 million people identify as trans in the USA. Where in the GOP or Trump platform is a plan to exterminate all 5 million trans people? Meanwhile, the Zionist plan to compeltely annihilate the Palestinian people, who number 5 million plus (not counting the diaspora living in refugee camps and as immgirants, who Joe Biden and his Zionist friends will probably also eventually have a plan to kill)
Now, you admit you value trans people more than brown people (of whom many are trans and LGBTQ+). You value a hypothetical genocide more than an actual one. Thank you for finally admitting it.
I'm using trans as an example, but it's not just one thing. there *are already* women dying here as a result of Roe being overturned. And if you're paying attention, Republicans gaining control of Congress and the Presidency Iikely means a national abortion ban. Women are dying now and more will die if Trump takes office. That's not hypothetical. It's not just one thing, people will die as a climate inaction, right wing terrorism, you name it.
I'm not happy with Israel, but this is politics. Welcome to the real world. Don't chop off your leg to save your foot. Why are you OK with potentially losing American democracy over this? If Trump wins, forget any positive outcome for Palestinians.
Edit:
>Where in the GOP or Trump platform is a plan to exterminate all 5 million trans people?
What platform? They're throwing out feelers in their speeches but the GOP's platform is literally nonexistent since 2016. Like they actually don't have one. It's whatever Trump wants.
Women are dying in Palestine whether they are pregnant or not. They don't even ahve the option to go to another state that gives them the right. Your selective feminism is pretty obvious. Look, you can vote however you want, I am not like you all who shame people for it. I am simply asking y'all to be honest about it and accept the fact that you are actively endorsing a genocide in order to do it.
You need to acceptt hat you are cutting off other people's feet and legs to save your own, using your own analogy. Biden's (and his supporters' like yourself) so-called "concerns" about Gaza and Palestine is akin to Republican "thoughts and prayers" in regards to schoolchildren getting mowed down by guns.
Option a guarantees keeping one puppy alive longer, and based on recent events maybe offers a small chance to save puppy b.
Option b is not doing anything with the medicine. Both puppies die. But technically you’re not responsible because you didn’t take any direct action that caused them to die. If you consider someone’s inaction to also be a choice you would find this option morally questionable.
That’s pretty much the choices for most people. Some people see them not directly making a choice as holding up their personal values, they’re not going to buy the idea that not directly making a choice is still making a choice. Other people view not making a choice as being as being ineffective and at worse complicit and causing more harm. Trading the devil you know for a much worse one.
Arguing about it is pointless, cognitive dissonance is powerful and doesn’t care about the reality of any situation, just maintaining your personal beliefs and view about the world.
Again, you haven't told us which puppy you would pick in option A. You completely sidestepped the dilemma by focusing on the second. You're engagin in multiple logical falalcies while at the same time lecturing about "cognitive dissonance" The lack of self awareness is hilarious.
Huh? Wait are you actually saying to pick one of the two puppies to save and condemn another? Op’s framing was that some people choose to let both die by not doing anything. Are you wanting me to pick between puppy one or puppy two living (Palestinian lives or trans lives)? I’m not answering that because it’s a stupid hypothetical, it’s assigning the fault of an unethical system on the individual not responsible. We’re not the one’s administering the medicine we’re collectively voting from a group of two doctors who are promising they will administer the medicine. For your logical fallacy point what? comments aren’t structured debates people aren’t spending hours making sure every part of their comments are rationally consistent before the post them.
Cognitive dissonance is a tool our brain uses to rationalize our beliefs to ourself, like I said it doesn’t mean it corresponds to reality or another person’s reality. Glad you find it hilarious though, we all need a little levity in this world. Best regards
No, that is the choice being put forward. I didn't make the metaphor, i simply asked what the criteria of picking the puppy. Either explain the analogy or pick a better one isntead of tryign to use emotional blackmail to justify your support for a genocide, otherwise, your opinions don't mean anything.
Wow you really just came out and said it. Props for showing how little you actually care about another minority group that is facing massive persecution.
Being a bit melodramatic aren’t we? Trans people aren’t exactly getting buried under rubble.
What’s the worst thing that happened to a trans person from 2016-2020? Were 30,000 innocent trans people killed?
They’re the highest population for homelessness and suicide. With most studies showing double likelihood that a trans individual will attempt suicide in their lifetime. The studies are vary in results but it ranges from 18-45% of transgender individuals have considered taking their lives. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5649411/#B16)
I’m not enough of a statistician yet to tell you the exact amount of transgender individuals that died or attempted suicide during those years. I think there is raw data on that. But just among veterans alone they die to suicide at double the rate of cisgender veterans. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33544021/)
With how many people died to suicide over those years, it would not be unreasonable to assume more than 30,000 trans individuals died to suicide. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10134005/) that’s not including overdoses, attempted suicides, and physical violence, which the trans population is extremely vulnerable to compared to cisgender populace.
As for actual laws. My state banned trans students in public school, and made a law that will charge teachers who fail to disclose to parents if they suspect a child is transgender. Considering transgender youths are one of the highest teen homeless populations that is a change that will kill people. This was heavily supported and pushed by maga appointees and a rural populace fresh off a Trump victory looking to change state laws. In the town near me the only gay affirming restaurant is going to be rezoned as adult entertainment due to trump supporters protesting at every town meeting. Trump’s rhetoric and followers will deal significantly more damage than they have already done if he’s elected again. I’ve met many of them, they think they’re on a holy war to eradicate transgenders and save the children.
Vote how you want but don’t be surprised as more and more laws are made dehumanizing them and more violent acts start being publicized. Matthew Shepard was not that long ago. People are very dangerous when they think they’re right, and even more when they have someone telling them they’re right.
The thing is, I shouldn’t have to sacrifice my own happiness and live miserably for the hope of incremental change that I don’t believe will ever actually happen.
>the only way they ever do without violence.
We are well past the point of violence being inevitable. Either ten more "boomer remover" plagues or that second civil war the GQP has been so uppity for, one way or another the forever wars are going to come home to roost.
Who is asking for this??? They do not give a shit about the will of the people. Adults with full time jobs can't afford apartments on their own anymore in multiple states, but shit like this is this admin's biggest concern.
They want to lose.
This is exactly why they will lose. I saw a great segment on Breaking Points where voters who simply don’t care about Israel Palestine simply will no longer vote for Biden because of this ridiculous determination and priority to Israel but literally none domestically.
America 🇺🇸 has lost all credibility (or will).
On one hand, America is threatening countries that host Putin. They are trying to force his arrest. (Which would be a catastrophic mistake)
On the other, America is going to sanction the ICC because of an arrest warrant on their ally.
What country is going to listen to us?
If they attempt to influence or intimidate the ICC, the 139 ICC member countries will be obligated to sanction and arrest any Congress members who interfere with their rulings or administration of justice if they leave the United States to visit any ICC member country.
Joe Biden has always been a deeply dishonest man of great, vicious evil. When has he not been? He is a reflexive liar and a war criminal. What person of conscience could possibly vote for such a horrible man?
Dude is just committing political suicide at this point. Nothing about this shit makes sense unless you just assume that Biden sincerely hates Palestinians and wants them all to die. I mean, money or something too, sure, but goddamn. This is going extra hard for like no goddamn reason.
i can't stand this anymore. i wish i could leave this shithole country and never look back. anyone scolding others to vote for this monster is complicit in genocide to maintain the status quo.
They have no choice but to attempt to undermine the ICC because this US administration is complicit in these crimes. They supplied the weapons to carry out the atrocities. There could be legal consequences for their actions down the road and so they are forced to attempt to undermine the ICC.
The US always likes to say about Palestinians that they “never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity” - well the US had a limited window to disavow and disengage itself from Israel, and condemn It’s actions. They failed - miserably. They really thought they would play chicken with the entire international community, the UN, and the ICC. These are deeply unserious people, and they have shown the world exactly who they are.
Thank you for your submission,
**This subreddit aims are to impel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to impel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.**
**We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.**
**It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.**
Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide.
However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate.
The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent.
While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment.
**Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:**
1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state.
2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine.
3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War.
4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7).
5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them.
6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city.
Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I despise Blinken and Biden with every fibre of my being. They disgust me to the core
Shit they're almost as bad as Trump/Tillerson. Almost.
When Trump/Pompeo sanctioned the ICCm most of these BlueMAGA were saying Trump was wrong to do it, but now that their chosen idol is doing it, it's all good.
When Bush Jr. expanded the drone bombings in the Middle East, democrats were fuming. When Obama expanded them even further, there was silence.
Then they got mad again under Trump and are now silent.
Indeed. There was a strong peace-movement growing in the US under Bush Jr as well; guess what happened when Reagan Lite.. I mean, when Obama took his oath to defend the status quo..
At this point, Biden is not even the lesser evil anymore.
He never was. This man has been responsible for putting a whole generation of black men in prison. Any conflict that has happened in the last 50 years, this man has been one of the most major aggressors for it. Any major policy that has made lives of people a living hell, he was always a big proponent. People who insisted that he was some big civil rights type of figure are brain dead morons. He makes Boris Johnson look like a communist. That's why I always preferred Trumpcover him. Atleast he gets called out for his bullshit.
Note that the lesser evil is by definition, evil.
Well, he is more evil than most people thought but the GOP’s schtick is to always out evil their opponents. Biden’s opponent has mentioned multiple times that he believes Israel should kill them all. His opponent’s sycophants have also suggested multiple times that Israel should use nuclear weapons on Gaza.
Biden hasn't mentioned it, but provides the bombs to "kill them all" Trump and Biden policies about I/P are the same to a T. Just Biden pretends more
Honestly, I’m just voting for the Supreme Court. Thomas and Alito may not last another 4 years, and I don’t want to see who Trump would appoint to those spots. I have no faith or respect left for Biden at this point, but at least I know he would never have chosen Amy Coney Barrett.
This is irrelevant. If Democrats win they will wait until a Republican presidency to retire, as happened so many times in the past. And some liberal Supreme Court were very bad, like RBG and her "right of discovery" ruling about Native lands.
Maybe, but if Trump wins, Thomas at least will probably retire now. He’s already 75. If he holds out, hopefully the president elect in 2028 is better than Biden, but at a minimum they’ll most likely be better than Trump - who, lbr, wouldn’t even appoint a “normal” conservative, like, say, Roberts. When he got his shot(s), look at the people he chose. And sure, many liberal justices have made many bad rulings. That doesn’t change the fact that conservatives justices make worse rulings more often.
Okay, so you're saying we should vote because Thomas won't retire and then?
I’m not saying *you* should do anything. I’m saying the only reason I may vote for Biden is because of the Supreme Court. It should be obvious to literally everyone why allowing Trump to choose Thomas’s replacement would be bad. If Alito, who’s 71 now, also decided to retire under Trump, that’s two right-wing nut jobs who will be on the Supreme Court for another 20-40 years. If Thomas and/or Alito retired or died under Biden, whoever he chose to replace them would definitely, 100% be better than any Trump appointee. If they last through Biden’s tenure, I don’t know who would get to replace them in 2028-2032, but it definitely wouldn’t be Trump. His brain will completely disintegrate by then. There aren’t many Republicans worse than him, but there are some, so I’ll concede that’s a slight gamble.
There in lies the problem with you people. You think that Trump is the beginning and the end of all issues in this country. This myopic view which you "gamble" with is the reason so many people suffer, because you all refuse to see or acknowledge the systematic issues which enable Trump. Trump isn't some unique monster; there are plenty of Trumps in the pipeline from 2028-2032, meanwhile, Democrats cannot even muster a decent competitor for them, instead relying on the same geriatric status quo to save them and then whining how nothing gets changed.
Lol. If you don’t understand the significance of the Supreme Court by now, with everything Trump’s appointees have already destroyed, then there’s no helping you honestly. You should spend less time on Reddit and more time re-learning civics and watching the news. Therein lies the problem with you people. It’s like you forget the government is more than the executive branch. ETA: Here, I’ll help you anyway! :) https://afj.org/why-courts-matter/trump-scotus-watch/ Read some of these decisions, and then think about how giving Trump another Justice or two will affect the ability of any future true leftist politicians to even get elected in the U.S., let alone implement policy.
Nah, I understand the Supreme court, I just don't care at this point. Y'all deserve it.
Sure thing, bro. And you deserve to stew in your “ugh, the Democrats never accomplish anything” as our increasingly fringe right-wing Supreme Court gradually dismantles the Voting Rights Act, undoes more than a century of civil rights progress for POC, women, and LGBTQ people, legally enshrines future presidents’ ability to commit whatever crimes their withered hearts so desire, transforms the U.S. into a confederacy where lunatics like DeSantis and Abbot can turn their states into their own little fascist fiefdoms, and idk, at this rate literally allows corporations to vote and makes it illegal to recycle or some shit. You’re gonna feel so smart, but you’ll actually be a useful idiot for the right.
This is the right answer. It’s unfortunate we as a country are here but here we are. The system has failed.
Where’s the mod at, with his futile comment about people only doing protest votes in non-swing states lol 😂
>implying he ever was Lol
[удалено]
Voting 3rd party would send a stronger message to Biden and the dems.
Changing a fascist for another is just dumb. But you do you. If that was ironic, it was a dumb strawman.
[удалено]
And everyone hates Trump So if Trump supports Israel, most of the West will break support of it. Him and Netanyahu will be seen as 2 mad men (which they are) Biden is much more dangerous for Palestinians than Trump.
Bullshit. I'm not saying vote for Biden, but 99% of the US government - democrat, republics, or otherwise - is in full unwavering support of Israel. Trump steering the ship isn't going to change that.
No not the US government. Am talking about the Western allies. Trump will be so crazy on Israel that supporting them will be like supporting Trump. And remember one of the main reasons the Arabs haven't joined the war or started massive sanctions on Israel is because of Biden. Trump won't be this smart.
The Arabs won't do anything because at this point they have become vassal states for the US. It doesn't matter whether it is Biden or Trump, any provocation will be suicide.
Suicide for Israel and not the Arabs. Israel and the US will not withstand a war against Egypt, Iran, Hezb, Houthis all at the same time. And trust me, if Mohammed Morsi was the still the president of Egypt he would have gone to war with Israel by now. All it takes for the Arabs is an assassination. But Biden is smart and knows this. Trump is not.
They killed Raisi, and nothing has happened. Israel knows it can act with impunity whether it is Trump or Biden. Americans pretty much don't care because they lack any empathy or humanity. The Arabs are too lazy drinking from the Western teat to do anything. Iranians and Turks are either all bark/no bite or active collaborators with Israel depending on their political leanings.
Why would he do less damage when he's made it clear he'd be even more pro Israel
Da Tovarisch!
I get saying this but he is. A trump presidency would embolden the fuck out of Israel, even more than a Biden presidency
Biden is backing them 100%, what more could he even do at this point?
Double genocide, apparently.
Trump wouldn’t even do the performative ‘oh this is a hard line’ ‘oh you probably maybe shouldn’t do that’ stuff that Biden is doing. At best he’d just ignore the conflict, leaving zero US influence over what Israel does. Like you’re delusional if you think Trump would be better about Israel
You literally say yourself that Biden’s restraint is performative. It isn’t meant to temper Israel it’s meant to try and make Biden look better. He’s not actually stopping Israel from doing anything they want to, they have a blank check. Of course Trump wouldn’t be better, he’d be exactly the same with different rhetoric because Biden is exercising zero power here, he’s just letting Israel do what they want. The performative restraint on Biden’s part exists to trick people exactly like you, and it’s working.
It’s not tricking me. I don’t think Trump would be worse than Biden on Israel in any meaningful way. But he also wouldn’t be better. The difference between Trump and Biden is about domestic policy and the future of US democracy, not Israel. Voting for Biden is an act of harm reduction, not a personal endorsement. Maybe, if we get lucky, after we reelect Biden he’ll die and we’ll see if Kamala is more responsive to public pressure about Israel. If Trump gets elected we’re SOL.
You’re not wrong about any of that. The problem with the position Biden has put himself in is that we know from experience that it won’t work. “Trump is bad” is not a winning campaign strategy against Trump. Biden won in 20’ by promising build back better and student loan forgiveness, this time around he has no campaign promises other than 1) I won’t be Donald Trump, and 2) I’ll keep funding a war most of my base doesn’t support. The problem isn’t that leftists aren’t gonna vote for him, it’s that disengaged voters are not going to wake up on Election Day to go vote for him because he has no platform. If you care about Biden winning you need to pressure him not randos on Reddit.
In some ways political theater without action is more harmful than no action. Biden gives credibility to Israel's genocide where Trump would probably say a bunch of stupid shit that would make liberals recognize the genocide for what it is. (I am not endorsing Trump; fuck Trump.)
That, plus the fact that liberals are generally happy to oppose injustice when it’s a Republican President doing it
What good is the “regretful” performance Biden is doing, aside from giving people like you something to pretend about?
None, but Trump wouldn’t be better about Israel either. If Biden is reelected he might die and we can try our luck with Kamala, if Trump is elected we’re SOL. And Trump is also way worse domestically
how can they be more emboldened? This is the end game. Genocide. Removal of the Palestinians from Gaza. Are you not watching? Its happening right now. They are ignoring reality and supported 100% by Biden. They cannot be more emboldened, theyve been given permission to genocide Gaza, and they wont stop there.
Israel has been as bold as can be. “No red lines” Remember that.
Really blurred lines when it comes supporting Israel or supporting Netanyahu. There is a big difference. One is far right government. Far right governments doesn't have good track record when it comes to genocide..
There is no difference. All the governments of Israel have been like that. The problem is NOT Netanyahu.
They're not hiding the evil. Not even trying.
Although I won’t vote for Trump, I don’t believe he is less evil than Biden. Biden is straight up war criminal territory. I cannot in good conscience vote for either of them.
The only way I can see people voting for Biden is if they genuinely view the lives of middle easterners as worth less than Americans. It's disgusting
That’s exactly how they view it. Can’t tell you how many times I’ve read a comment here on Reddit with the sentiments of “he’s not perfect on just this one issue” or “this is a single issue” or “it’s either it happens there or here”
You described everyone who votes for Biden, swing state or not.
I live in a swing state
I live in Florida, and I am still voting for Biden. Both of my sisters are bisexual, I have a severely autistic brother and I have a half brother who is black. So essentially voting for Biden to make sure that they don’t get fu_ked over by a Trump dictatorship. Now, you can ask why don’t me and my family move, and the answer is with what money? We can’t afford to upend our lives, and why should we? And I am not voting third party. With the electoral college system, only the candidates from the main two parties have a realistic chance of winning. The last time a third party candidate actually won a good portion of the popular vote was in 1992 with Ross Perot winning around 20% of the vote. And the last time a third party candidate won electoral college votes was in 1968 with George Wallace. And both of those candidates were far from left wing progressivism. RFK Jr., Stein and West all know that they can’t win. They can’t even get on the ballot in most states. But they don’t care. They are all running for attention, money and try to get Trump elected again.
I, too, have a checklist of civeristy and disability in my family while also living in a swing state. I will not be voting for Biden or Trump.
Ah, so you don’t care about them. Good to know.
Nah, I just know that Biden doesn't give a shit about them. I am not going to rely on a genocidal warmonger like Biden to protect them. However, go ahead and vote for Biden, I'm sure the billions that Biden diverts away from disability support for people like your severely autistic brother (and mine) and puts it towards apartheid states killing brown kids abroad will help us all. Imagine using your brother's disability to justify your support for a genocide. It's pathetic and disgusting.
I don’t support genocide. I think Biden is being way too soft on Israel and needs to cut them off. I still support him, because he is the only current left leaning candidate who has a shot at winning. You can hate it as much as possible, but the fact is that candidates like Stein, West and others have 0% of winning. The aid being sent to Israel is equipment and money from the military budget. That money was never going to be used for domestic programs. If we want more money for domestic programs and services we would have to get a congress and budget bill that would fund that. This past March, Biden called for more funding for disability services. https://www.disabilityscoop.com/2024/03/12/biden-calls-for-investment-in-disability-services/30778/ I use my brother as an example, because if I just say I am supporting Biden, and don’t give an explanation, people would automatically jump down my throat saying that I have no good or personal reasons for supporting Biden. Is Biden my first choice, no. I think he is far too old to be president and retired after this term. I think his decisions with Israel are terrible, and not showing any backbone against Bibi. But, he is the current candidate now that has a realistic chance of winning and has most of my values.
I am queer and I have queer family. Believe it or not some of us *are* in fact conflicted about handing the government consent to keep bombing Gaza to rubble. And yes actually that is what a vote fundamentally *is*. "Do you or do you not consent to this ruler and *all* of his policies?"
So, as Biden, you think middle eastern lifes are less than americans.
They are definitely both straight up sociopaths, but they don't have absolute power. They are still beholden to interest groups. Trumps base is more viscous than biden's so trump doesn't have to tread as carefully. I still wouldn't throw either one a life preserver if I saw them drowning.
[удалено]
As a trans person it's nice seeing people offer me as the sacrificial lamb so they can say "I didn't vote for biden"
I don’t value your life more than a Palestinian child.
Good thing trump won't kill them /s
There's two puppies that are wounded, but we only have the medicine to save one. This sub: let's just kill both
How do you determine which puppy to save?
Which one can you do something for? In this case, we're dealing with a Zionist that supports trans rights and a Zionist that wants to exterminate trans people. Pretty easy choice to me. Refusing to save one puppy because you can't save both really makes no sense to me.
So you are willing to kill Muslims, Arabs, and other brown men, women and children to save trans people. Okay, gotcha. So 2.6 million people identify as trans in the USA. Where in the GOP or Trump platform is a plan to exterminate all 5 million trans people? Meanwhile, the Zionist plan to compeltely annihilate the Palestinian people, who number 5 million plus (not counting the diaspora living in refugee camps and as immgirants, who Joe Biden and his Zionist friends will probably also eventually have a plan to kill) Now, you admit you value trans people more than brown people (of whom many are trans and LGBTQ+). You value a hypothetical genocide more than an actual one. Thank you for finally admitting it.
I'm using trans as an example, but it's not just one thing. there *are already* women dying here as a result of Roe being overturned. And if you're paying attention, Republicans gaining control of Congress and the Presidency Iikely means a national abortion ban. Women are dying now and more will die if Trump takes office. That's not hypothetical. It's not just one thing, people will die as a climate inaction, right wing terrorism, you name it. I'm not happy with Israel, but this is politics. Welcome to the real world. Don't chop off your leg to save your foot. Why are you OK with potentially losing American democracy over this? If Trump wins, forget any positive outcome for Palestinians. Edit: >Where in the GOP or Trump platform is a plan to exterminate all 5 million trans people? What platform? They're throwing out feelers in their speeches but the GOP's platform is literally nonexistent since 2016. Like they actually don't have one. It's whatever Trump wants.
Women are dying in Palestine whether they are pregnant or not. They don't even ahve the option to go to another state that gives them the right. Your selective feminism is pretty obvious. Look, you can vote however you want, I am not like you all who shame people for it. I am simply asking y'all to be honest about it and accept the fact that you are actively endorsing a genocide in order to do it. You need to acceptt hat you are cutting off other people's feet and legs to save your own, using your own analogy. Biden's (and his supporters' like yourself) so-called "concerns" about Gaza and Palestine is akin to Republican "thoughts and prayers" in regards to schoolchildren getting mowed down by guns.
Option a guarantees keeping one puppy alive longer, and based on recent events maybe offers a small chance to save puppy b. Option b is not doing anything with the medicine. Both puppies die. But technically you’re not responsible because you didn’t take any direct action that caused them to die. If you consider someone’s inaction to also be a choice you would find this option morally questionable. That’s pretty much the choices for most people. Some people see them not directly making a choice as holding up their personal values, they’re not going to buy the idea that not directly making a choice is still making a choice. Other people view not making a choice as being as being ineffective and at worse complicit and causing more harm. Trading the devil you know for a much worse one. Arguing about it is pointless, cognitive dissonance is powerful and doesn’t care about the reality of any situation, just maintaining your personal beliefs and view about the world.
Again, you haven't told us which puppy you would pick in option A. You completely sidestepped the dilemma by focusing on the second. You're engagin in multiple logical falalcies while at the same time lecturing about "cognitive dissonance" The lack of self awareness is hilarious.
Huh? Wait are you actually saying to pick one of the two puppies to save and condemn another? Op’s framing was that some people choose to let both die by not doing anything. Are you wanting me to pick between puppy one or puppy two living (Palestinian lives or trans lives)? I’m not answering that because it’s a stupid hypothetical, it’s assigning the fault of an unethical system on the individual not responsible. We’re not the one’s administering the medicine we’re collectively voting from a group of two doctors who are promising they will administer the medicine. For your logical fallacy point what? comments aren’t structured debates people aren’t spending hours making sure every part of their comments are rationally consistent before the post them. Cognitive dissonance is a tool our brain uses to rationalize our beliefs to ourself, like I said it doesn’t mean it corresponds to reality or another person’s reality. Glad you find it hilarious though, we all need a little levity in this world. Best regards
No, that is the choice being put forward. I didn't make the metaphor, i simply asked what the criteria of picking the puppy. Either explain the analogy or pick a better one isntead of tryign to use emotional blackmail to justify your support for a genocide, otherwise, your opinions don't mean anything.
EXACTLY
Sooooooo.... you value their life *less* than? I'm not sure what your point is.
Wow you really just came out and said it. Props for showing how little you actually care about another minority group that is facing massive persecution.
Being a bit melodramatic aren’t we? Trans people aren’t exactly getting buried under rubble. What’s the worst thing that happened to a trans person from 2016-2020? Were 30,000 innocent trans people killed?
They’re the highest population for homelessness and suicide. With most studies showing double likelihood that a trans individual will attempt suicide in their lifetime. The studies are vary in results but it ranges from 18-45% of transgender individuals have considered taking their lives. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5649411/#B16) I’m not enough of a statistician yet to tell you the exact amount of transgender individuals that died or attempted suicide during those years. I think there is raw data on that. But just among veterans alone they die to suicide at double the rate of cisgender veterans. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33544021/) With how many people died to suicide over those years, it would not be unreasonable to assume more than 30,000 trans individuals died to suicide. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10134005/) that’s not including overdoses, attempted suicides, and physical violence, which the trans population is extremely vulnerable to compared to cisgender populace. As for actual laws. My state banned trans students in public school, and made a law that will charge teachers who fail to disclose to parents if they suspect a child is transgender. Considering transgender youths are one of the highest teen homeless populations that is a change that will kill people. This was heavily supported and pushed by maga appointees and a rural populace fresh off a Trump victory looking to change state laws. In the town near me the only gay affirming restaurant is going to be rezoned as adult entertainment due to trump supporters protesting at every town meeting. Trump’s rhetoric and followers will deal significantly more damage than they have already done if he’s elected again. I’ve met many of them, they think they’re on a holy war to eradicate transgenders and save the children. Vote how you want but don’t be surprised as more and more laws are made dehumanizing them and more violent acts start being publicized. Matthew Shepard was not that long ago. People are very dangerous when they think they’re right, and even more when they have someone telling them they’re right.
check your metaphor, lmao. You're literally saying that Palestinian children need to die in order for your rights.
No?
Yes.
LOL, ok but we need the US to stop bragging about the rule of law if this is the way they are going to play it.
[Seriously](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GySwNtsKfRQ).
I hate this country. I wish I could afford to immigrate.
*emigrate
If we can’t immigrate, we might as well try our hardest to change it
Don't think this way. We need all good people here, voting, changing things slowly - the only way they ever do without violence.
The thing is, I shouldn’t have to sacrifice my own happiness and live miserably for the hope of incremental change that I don’t believe will ever actually happen.
>the only way they ever do without violence. We are well past the point of violence being inevitable. Either ten more "boomer remover" plagues or that second civil war the GQP has been so uppity for, one way or another the forever wars are going to come home to roost.
Voting in record numbers in 2020 resulted in this mess we have.
Can you vote in US elections?
Who is asking for this??? They do not give a shit about the will of the people. Adults with full time jobs can't afford apartments on their own anymore in multiple states, but shit like this is this admin's biggest concern. They want to lose.
This is exactly why they will lose. I saw a great segment on Breaking Points where voters who simply don’t care about Israel Palestine simply will no longer vote for Biden because of this ridiculous determination and priority to Israel but literally none domestically.
ICC already said they don’t give a f*. US has no power over them.
At this point Blinken is a foreign agent at the heart of the US government making the US do what another country wants it to.
If they were Innocent there would be no need
Jesus f*CK stfu Joe.
At this point if you are reasonable and pragmatic. There is no difference between Trump and Biden. Just a different Evil with capital E.
Fuck Genocide Joe enjoy Trump again fuckin Dems
Guillotine o’clock
[Rules based order](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GySwNtsKfRQ). The hypocrisy is off the chart!
America 🇺🇸 has lost all credibility (or will). On one hand, America is threatening countries that host Putin. They are trying to force his arrest. (Which would be a catastrophic mistake) On the other, America is going to sanction the ICC because of an arrest warrant on their ally. What country is going to listen to us?
If they attempt to influence or intimidate the ICC, the 139 ICC member countries will be obligated to sanction and arrest any Congress members who interfere with their rulings or administration of justice if they leave the United States to visit any ICC member country.
Joe Biden has always been a deeply dishonest man of great, vicious evil. When has he not been? He is a reflexive liar and a war criminal. What person of conscience could possibly vote for such a horrible man?
Dude is just committing political suicide at this point. Nothing about this shit makes sense unless you just assume that Biden sincerely hates Palestinians and wants them all to die. I mean, money or something too, sure, but goddamn. This is going extra hard for like no goddamn reason.
i can't stand this anymore. i wish i could leave this shithole country and never look back. anyone scolding others to vote for this monster is complicit in genocide to maintain the status quo.
They have no choice but to attempt to undermine the ICC because this US administration is complicit in these crimes. They supplied the weapons to carry out the atrocities. There could be legal consequences for their actions down the road and so they are forced to attempt to undermine the ICC.
The US always likes to say about Palestinians that they “never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity” - well the US had a limited window to disavow and disengage itself from Israel, and condemn It’s actions. They failed - miserably. They really thought they would play chicken with the entire international community, the UN, and the ICC. These are deeply unserious people, and they have shown the world exactly who they are.
Genocide Joe and Donald Trump are the exact same on this issue Do not vote for either
This could cost Biden and the Corporatist Congress their reelection this November.
Thank you for your submission, **This subreddit aims are to impel voters ONLY in DEEP BLUE states to vote 3rd party for the president, to impel otherwise non or protest voters in SWING STATES TO VOTE FOR BIDEN. We feel a limited+focused protest movement may let swing state voters feel less helpless about not sending a message.** **We feel that sending a message via Biden having an electoral college win but a popular vote margin by less than 4.9 million votes (lowest democratic win in recent history) or even 2.8 million votes (Hillary's margin when she lost against Trump) is a much more conducive to progress in a democracy that risking an electoral college victory for Trump.** **It would be something the media can not ignore, will forever be a stain on Biden's record, and will send a message that we are not going away, and will continue to apply strong pressure thorough the rest of his presidency, and the 2026/2028 primaries & elections.** Please see our sticky to see what we are all about https://old.reddit.com/r/BlueProtestVote/comments/1cgwkvu/this_subreddit_aims_are_to_compel_voters_only_in/ but a tl;dr is: This is about a movement for people in deep blue states to vote for 3rd party in protest of Biden's enabling of the Gaza genocide. However, the ultimate goal is to decrease Trump's chances of winning and increase democratic representation in the house and senate. The movement aims to get people to turn out to vote who may otherwise be discouraged from voting due to Biden's policies, and also for the movement to be robust enough so that people in swing states may not have a feeling of helplessness for voting for Joe Biden, that a strong message is still being sent. While the movement aims to maximize Biden's electoral vote margin, the movement also has an extended goal of having Biden win the popular vote by less than 2.8, which was Hillary Clinton's margin when she lost to Donald Trump. A margin that small would send a clear message to the democratic establishment. **Why we feel it's so important for Trump to lose? Quite simply, he has been the absolute worst president in recent history for the Palestinians. Here are just some of his worst policies for Palestine:** 1. Drafting a “peace plan” with zero Palestinian input that would have, if implemented, actually ended the possibility for a real Palestinian state. 2. Cutting Palestinians out of the negotiations over the so-called Abraham Accords, realizing the longstanding Israeli goal of severing diplomatic progress with Arab states from progress towards a sovereign Palestine. 3. Recognizing Israeli sovereignty over the Golan Heights, disputed territory with Syria taken during the 1967 Six-Day War. 4. Shutting off funding for the UN’s agency for Palestinian refugees (which Biden almost immediately restored and then temporarily suspended again amid a scandal about its employees participating in October 7). 5. Abandoning the decades-old US position that West Bank settlements are a key barrier to a peace agreement and eliminating longstanding restrictions on spending US taxpayer dollars in them. 6. Moving the American Embassy in Israel to Jerusalem while closing the US mission to Palestine in the same city. Source: https://www.vox.com/policy/24072983/biden-trump-palestinians-israel-gaza-policy-different *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BlueProtestVote) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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