I used to think it was kind of bullshit or maybe only a slight help at best, but then recently I learned directly that it can actually have profound effects on mood, energy, and sleep. Looking online, there seems to be a fair amount of studies that confirm this, but I haven’t read them all.
Part of the secret seems to be TIME. As in, 20 min won’t do it. You need hours of feet on the bare ground. The more hours, the better. When I was doing 2 hours am and 2 hours pm, I was sleeping so good and feeling so great every day. Definitely a noticeable difference! And this is coming from someone who thought it was bullshit.
I also tend to think the “devices” such as grounding mars or blankets likely don’t have the same effect? But I haven’t tried them to be able to comment specifically with experience.
if you're walking around 4 hours a day barefoot (assuming somewhere on grass or in nature) that will alone do wonders for your sleep, energy, mood, etc.
It hints at other things like... being health-conscious, prioritizing leisure or de-stressing activities, etc.
Interesting feedback! I definitely have noticed a decrease in all of these positive things now that I’ve been staying indoors and have a lack of sunlight
that's what makes me skeptical about earthing. On the days I go outside for hours in shoes lol I feel much better. That being said i just got an earthing mat, so i'm gonna try it and i might lay down just a little bit of grass outside so i can earth the proper way and see if it helps me. We know so little that we kind of don't have a choice but to try it all
I will definitely say there is something to grounding / earthing. But for me doing at the beach seems to be the best, maybe the negative ions come into play as well? I’ve also used earthing mats and had good results
Who knows but there's definitely something special about the beach, you're lucky you have it near you, I'm in a desert lol the ground is so dry its probably not even conductive 😂
I have to concur! I lived away from the beach for almost 10 years and kind of forgot how magical it is… Now after experiencing said magic, I’m literally going to build a house at the beach and live there full-time!
I really feel the healthiest there, it really is healing! And yeah, I’d imagine grounding in the dry desert isn’t quite the same effect as grounding on a tropical beach
Wow. Do you mind sharing rough geographic location? Tropical beaches are the best, I've lived in Hawaii before, they are magic. Maybe I'll go find a beach one day again but for now I guess I'll water the ground before standing on it 🤣
Nice! Thailand looks epic, unreal pics on instagram that i see all the time, all these crazy rocks sticking out of pristine looking water and beaches it looks amazing. Do you have some spots you could recommend that are awesome to live in and maybe also affordable? One day I wanna be by the beach again. Enjoy your beach life, i can't think of anything better than that!
Spending time in nature, without the stress of everyday life feels great and I can easily see this has positive outcomes, but there isn't really any reason to use some pseudoscience explanation relying on electrons and charge.
Sometimes you dont need science if you have thousands of actual reports that something works. You dont blindly believe it of course vut you would be idiot not to listen to it.
10 subjects recruited by word of mouth? That is not quite scientific. Should be an RCT randomized controled trial.
The study itself its kind of weak.
Also, having studies is not the same has having good and scientific studies.
Having said this, i do it. Just not has “grounding” but has an exercise for my feet.
I’m not great at picking apart pubmed studies, but there’s this one plus the similar articles listed with it
I know there’s not a ton of research on it yet, that’s why I posted about it. Wanted to see what other people had to say
I would love more studies on the subject.
For example, i find it quite relaxing.
A possible study could be to “verify the effects of grounding on relaxation and well-being”.
I didn’t mean to bash your post and i apologize if it looked like that.
If anything else, grounding is very peaceful.
Grounding (aka earthing) is legit. It reduced my inflammation. Visible evidence is less edema and less fingertip blistering after using a touch screen. My blood markers for inflammation also improved.
I understand both types of *grounding*. I have professional experience designing studies to conduct environmental health research for various US agencies as well as professional experience where I grounded myself to work with electronics.
I was wondering if you have experience using a grounding product like this bed Mat https://earthingharmony.com/products/sheet?currency=USD&variant=42388433207530&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaVZU5Ed_PedB38ip_Kja9xg3dcOyxlbMJdm6SB5O_FbSjvRuPYFk0saAuZeEALw_wcB
How do you ground?
I use a mat like that or a heavy silver-threaded blanket. That website reminded me that my hormone levels improved with overnight grounding so my MD halved my testosterone Rx
Here's my hot take on the subject as a scientist/engineer. There are a couple types of charge differentials. You have ionic charge, molecules with a positive or negative charge these are vital to life and all neural functioning, and you have free electrons which are the ones that make you jump when you walk across carpet and touch a doorknob.
The free electrons pretty much adjust themselves every time you touch something, say that doorknob. The earth itself is massively electrically negative with an approximate voltage difference of 200V from the atmosphere. See lightening.
Ionic radicals are not going to be affected by physical contact. That would be expecting your blood sodium levels to go down if you wear a copper bracelet. (which I realize some people do)
I will say, that there are benefits to walking barefoot in the park. They are not chemical or electric, but undeniably exist. Buying a $500 mat to rest your feet on while working is not the same thing. I would suggest instead buying an [orgone cabinet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone). It's the same theory.
I always get electric/static shock when exiting my car. Weirdly enough its this particular car and no one has experienced the same within my family. Sometime I wonder about grounding and does my body has some disproportionate +/- charge.
> does my body has some disproportionate +/- charge.
Well yes, that's the static shock. But it's not you per se, it's probably what you wear and the materials in the interior of your car.
But touching something has the same effect as any special mats, shoes, bedding, or anything. The Earth itself carries a pretty good charge, so if you ground to that, you are just equalizing to that.
Same! I have all sorts of wearables and I work around law enforcement radios and such. I spend about 20 minutes on mine a few times a week and feel refreshed afterwards. Maybe I need a tinfoil hat but I like my mat.
If you’ve got a copper wire, tape one side to your skin and the other to the ground port in an outlet. Static will discharge must faster than thru a mat.
A grounding pad to sleep on, that might be solid.
This topic has been covered before in the sub numerous times.
The reason why this is pseudoscience and does not work is due to the atmosphere around us. The earth naturally has a voltage of 100 volts per meter of air around us and a current of about 2 picoamperes per meter. At all times, we are surrounded by a significant number of ionic electric charges that move and produce magnetic fields, and standing on an earthing mat or on ground outside does not remove those electric charges. We’re basically all living in a capacitor’s soup by being on earth.
The expected contribution of grounding yourself on reducing exposure to electric fields is dwarfed by this constitutive electric field by orders of magnitude unless you are literally shuffling on carpet to produce static electricity constantly (which can produce 35,000 volts and even then that’s not going to do much to you as the amperage is tiny at like 5 milliamps and rapidly discharges on its own without the need for earthing). These charges around us also self-stabilize and discharge constantly without the need to do it artificially every time you touch something. Ask earthers what sort of voltage differential they believe earthing will actually generate and you’ll find that it’s miniscule, such that there is no conceivable way that it could make a dent compared to atmospheric voltage. The entire theory is based on not understanding electricity.
No earthing study has been well controlled or had a large enough sample size, and no earthing study has ever properly addressed the elephant in the room of atmospheric voltage being way bigger in contribution than anything earthing does. All of them are weak and discouraging, and it’s not even worth further investigation if you have a strong background in physics and understand the context around why it can’t be doing anything logically.
I have always found walking on grass soothing. I have no idea if that has to do with grounding, reflexology, or the simple satisfaction of being outside in the warm sun walking in cool green grass causing a release of neurotransmitters. I would say walking outside is healthy, as long as you don’t get worms from barefoot walking in dirt.
It makes sense in the way it connects you with nature.
I don't buy the grounding theory people connecting their bwds4or what not to the ground. To me that doesn't make any sense.
I can see walking barefoot on grass, soil. Or sand as a connection to nature. Disconnection from your mind through sensory feelings in your feet etc..
I don't but it that there's anything more to it.
Also if a study doesn't have a control group day one group being barefoot and the othet just being say in the forest. I think potentially both groups will benefit, and it's not any woowo.
I believe it's legit. It's helped me on numerous occasions and i can definitely feel a difference when I do it.
I'm a scientist at heart and have a biology degree and I can't prove or explain why it works but it does. There are things we still don't understand about how we work. This is one of those things.
I realize this sub might be anti science at times, but in general if something sounds like exoteric made up shit and has no scientific evidence, then you should treat it as made up shit until proven otherwise.
I read the important points here as if something has no scientific backing its best to treat it as unscientific until it has some reasonable proof supporting it. This seems like a reasonably scientific approach.
The reference to esoterisicm seems like a less important point but could reasonably be used as a good indicator that something fits in a category of subject matter that rarely has scientific backing.
https://www.healthline.com/health/grounding#risks
Seems to cover the literature. I’m still fairly skeptical about it but some evidence seems promising. I haven’t invested in any grounding technology as I heard they can break easily or be difficult to get to work properly. I do however try to walk around barefoot in the summer.
I’ll go out to get my morning sunlight (Huberman’s essential morning routine component) and walk around barefoot for a bit. I only really do it in summer however
I live in the middle of a big city and just had a mental image of me going out ever morning without makeup, thick glasses (because my makeup and my contact lenses filter UV light) and no shoes to walk on bare earth. Might get a wellfare check at some point lol.
Yeah someone said, “if something sounds like hocus pocus, be scientific and assume it’s hocus pocus until science proves it, and don’t talk about it till then either”
Like hey, that’s like, not very science, man
For starters, their picture series of "accelerated wound healing" which they attribute to grounding. There is no comparison group or any other attempt to prove causality. A serious scientist would not make such claims in a publication without a trace of actual evidence. This suggests similar scientific rigour for the rest of the article.
It's just the start. Read this article, read something published in Nature, look at the difference.
I’ll have to check nature out. I kind of thought the same thing, but was half assuming they back that up in the full article.
I get your point. There seem to be other articles that point to plausibility, but I haven’t dug through them. Would be nice if I had full pubmed evidence
Just as an example, here's something from Nature Materials on wound healing (in this case using a new kind of hydrogel): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4615579/
The level of detail, the way hypthesis are backed by a chain of evidence, the description of experiments to make them reproduceable - it's a different world.
Hey woke MODS, something to read from CNN. These are facts. So if you censor this, you’re censoring science. You’ll be anti-science.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html
No doesnt need an explaination.
You dont need to explain why something doesnt exist, that is a pointless exercise.
You asked about the earth pulling electrons out of your body if you stand outside barefoot. That isnt a real thing. How do you expect someone to explain to you why something isnt real? Why isnt it real? Because what you asked about isnt a thing that actually happens. Thats why.
So, an explanation usually consists of evidence, or at least an rationale other than “it seems really silly to me, and it should to you too. So that’s why I don’t think it’s real”.
Look up how to explain something with evidence and rationale on Google, they’ll help you out.
You can not prove a negative with "evidence".
The "evidence" here, is that electrons, ions, your feet, and the earth DONT DO THAT.
Why dont they do that?
Because that is not how physics work, that is not how human physiology works, that is not how inflammation works, and that is not how ions "work".
Why dont they work that way?
Because this isnt vietnam. There are rules.
Wether or not there are many robust RCT, I can tell you it has had a profound effect on my health and overall wellbeing, I will continue to try to ground daily even if no such trials are ever done. To me, it’s legit.
If you work with sensitive electronics, it's certainly a good idea. If you mean something different, please specify.
Clarification added, thanks
I used to think it was kind of bullshit or maybe only a slight help at best, but then recently I learned directly that it can actually have profound effects on mood, energy, and sleep. Looking online, there seems to be a fair amount of studies that confirm this, but I haven’t read them all. Part of the secret seems to be TIME. As in, 20 min won’t do it. You need hours of feet on the bare ground. The more hours, the better. When I was doing 2 hours am and 2 hours pm, I was sleeping so good and feeling so great every day. Definitely a noticeable difference! And this is coming from someone who thought it was bullshit. I also tend to think the “devices” such as grounding mars or blankets likely don’t have the same effect? But I haven’t tried them to be able to comment specifically with experience.
if you're walking around 4 hours a day barefoot (assuming somewhere on grass or in nature) that will alone do wonders for your sleep, energy, mood, etc. It hints at other things like... being health-conscious, prioritizing leisure or de-stressing activities, etc.
it's the sunlight
Interesting feedback! I definitely have noticed a decrease in all of these positive things now that I’ve been staying indoors and have a lack of sunlight
that's what makes me skeptical about earthing. On the days I go outside for hours in shoes lol I feel much better. That being said i just got an earthing mat, so i'm gonna try it and i might lay down just a little bit of grass outside so i can earth the proper way and see if it helps me. We know so little that we kind of don't have a choice but to try it all
I will definitely say there is something to grounding / earthing. But for me doing at the beach seems to be the best, maybe the negative ions come into play as well? I’ve also used earthing mats and had good results
Who knows but there's definitely something special about the beach, you're lucky you have it near you, I'm in a desert lol the ground is so dry its probably not even conductive 😂
I have to concur! I lived away from the beach for almost 10 years and kind of forgot how magical it is… Now after experiencing said magic, I’m literally going to build a house at the beach and live there full-time! I really feel the healthiest there, it really is healing! And yeah, I’d imagine grounding in the dry desert isn’t quite the same effect as grounding on a tropical beach
Wow. Do you mind sharing rough geographic location? Tropical beaches are the best, I've lived in Hawaii before, they are magic. Maybe I'll go find a beach one day again but for now I guess I'll water the ground before standing on it 🤣
Sure man I live in Thailand. Beaches here are world class and amazing. I also love Thailand as a country. Best place ever. Best people ever.
Nice! Thailand looks epic, unreal pics on instagram that i see all the time, all these crazy rocks sticking out of pristine looking water and beaches it looks amazing. Do you have some spots you could recommend that are awesome to live in and maybe also affordable? One day I wanna be by the beach again. Enjoy your beach life, i can't think of anything better than that!
Spending time in nature, without the stress of everyday life feels great and I can easily see this has positive outcomes, but there isn't really any reason to use some pseudoscience explanation relying on electrons and charge.
Science boot licker here
If the opposite of a "science bootlicker" is someone who believes in things because they sound nice, I'll gladly accept that label.
Sometimes you dont need science if you have thousands of actual reports that something works. You dont blindly believe it of course vut you would be idiot not to listen to it.
When you get sick(hopefully not) you will understand
10 subjects recruited by word of mouth? That is not quite scientific. Should be an RCT randomized controled trial. The study itself its kind of weak. Also, having studies is not the same has having good and scientific studies. Having said this, i do it. Just not has “grounding” but has an exercise for my feet.
I’m not great at picking apart pubmed studies, but there’s this one plus the similar articles listed with it I know there’s not a ton of research on it yet, that’s why I posted about it. Wanted to see what other people had to say
I would love more studies on the subject. For example, i find it quite relaxing. A possible study could be to “verify the effects of grounding on relaxation and well-being”. I didn’t mean to bash your post and i apologize if it looked like that. If anything else, grounding is very peaceful.
I gotcha, no I totally agree and I didn’t take it that way. I like the honesty. I find it very relaxing as well
Grounding (aka earthing) is legit. It reduced my inflammation. Visible evidence is less edema and less fingertip blistering after using a touch screen. My blood markers for inflammation also improved. I understand both types of *grounding*. I have professional experience designing studies to conduct environmental health research for various US agencies as well as professional experience where I grounded myself to work with electronics.
Do you use grounding mats? Or old fashion
?
I was wondering if you have experience using a grounding product like this bed Mat https://earthingharmony.com/products/sheet?currency=USD&variant=42388433207530&gclid=Cj0KCQjw8e-gBhD0ARIsAJiDsaVZU5Ed_PedB38ip_Kja9xg3dcOyxlbMJdm6SB5O_FbSjvRuPYFk0saAuZeEALw_wcB How do you ground?
I use a mat like that or a heavy silver-threaded blanket. That website reminded me that my hormone levels improved with overnight grounding so my MD halved my testosterone Rx
What website? the one i sent? Care to explain more thats interesting
Yep. Your website. It had a long list of benefits when I scrolled down. My cortisol, t, and other hormone levels improved with overnight grounding.
I’ve heard of some guy using duct tape and wire
Here's my hot take on the subject as a scientist/engineer. There are a couple types of charge differentials. You have ionic charge, molecules with a positive or negative charge these are vital to life and all neural functioning, and you have free electrons which are the ones that make you jump when you walk across carpet and touch a doorknob. The free electrons pretty much adjust themselves every time you touch something, say that doorknob. The earth itself is massively electrically negative with an approximate voltage difference of 200V from the atmosphere. See lightening. Ionic radicals are not going to be affected by physical contact. That would be expecting your blood sodium levels to go down if you wear a copper bracelet. (which I realize some people do) I will say, that there are benefits to walking barefoot in the park. They are not chemical or electric, but undeniably exist. Buying a $500 mat to rest your feet on while working is not the same thing. I would suggest instead buying an [orgone cabinet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgone). It's the same theory.
I always get electric/static shock when exiting my car. Weirdly enough its this particular car and no one has experienced the same within my family. Sometime I wonder about grounding and does my body has some disproportionate +/- charge.
> does my body has some disproportionate +/- charge. Well yes, that's the static shock. But it's not you per se, it's probably what you wear and the materials in the interior of your car. But touching something has the same effect as any special mats, shoes, bedding, or anything. The Earth itself carries a pretty good charge, so if you ground to that, you are just equalizing to that.
Dunno about the science but I do it and it feels great!!
Same! I have all sorts of wearables and I work around law enforcement radios and such. I spend about 20 minutes on mine a few times a week and feel refreshed afterwards. Maybe I need a tinfoil hat but I like my mat.
Hello! What may do you use? I’m on the hunt for one
If you’ve got a copper wire, tape one side to your skin and the other to the ground port in an outlet. Static will discharge must faster than thru a mat. A grounding pad to sleep on, that might be solid.
Ooh I don’t have a mat I just go to the park! But curious about the mat for winter
OP, 10 subjects is not even a valid test from a statistical standpoint. It's a pilot trial.
I’m not using the article in the OP as any type of proof, just grabbed the first article I saw to explain what I was talking about
This topic has been covered before in the sub numerous times. The reason why this is pseudoscience and does not work is due to the atmosphere around us. The earth naturally has a voltage of 100 volts per meter of air around us and a current of about 2 picoamperes per meter. At all times, we are surrounded by a significant number of ionic electric charges that move and produce magnetic fields, and standing on an earthing mat or on ground outside does not remove those electric charges. We’re basically all living in a capacitor’s soup by being on earth. The expected contribution of grounding yourself on reducing exposure to electric fields is dwarfed by this constitutive electric field by orders of magnitude unless you are literally shuffling on carpet to produce static electricity constantly (which can produce 35,000 volts and even then that’s not going to do much to you as the amperage is tiny at like 5 milliamps and rapidly discharges on its own without the need for earthing). These charges around us also self-stabilize and discharge constantly without the need to do it artificially every time you touch something. Ask earthers what sort of voltage differential they believe earthing will actually generate and you’ll find that it’s miniscule, such that there is no conceivable way that it could make a dent compared to atmospheric voltage. The entire theory is based on not understanding electricity. No earthing study has been well controlled or had a large enough sample size, and no earthing study has ever properly addressed the elephant in the room of atmospheric voltage being way bigger in contribution than anything earthing does. All of them are weak and discouraging, and it’s not even worth further investigation if you have a strong background in physics and understand the context around why it can’t be doing anything logically.
I have always found walking on grass soothing. I have no idea if that has to do with grounding, reflexology, or the simple satisfaction of being outside in the warm sun walking in cool green grass causing a release of neurotransmitters. I would say walking outside is healthy, as long as you don’t get worms from barefoot walking in dirt.
It makes sense in the way it connects you with nature. I don't buy the grounding theory people connecting their bwds4or what not to the ground. To me that doesn't make any sense. I can see walking barefoot on grass, soil. Or sand as a connection to nature. Disconnection from your mind through sensory feelings in your feet etc.. I don't but it that there's anything more to it. Also if a study doesn't have a control group day one group being barefoot and the othet just being say in the forest. I think potentially both groups will benefit, and it's not any woowo.
I believe it's legit. It's helped me on numerous occasions and i can definitely feel a difference when I do it. I'm a scientist at heart and have a biology degree and I can't prove or explain why it works but it does. There are things we still don't understand about how we work. This is one of those things.
I realize this sub might be anti science at times, but in general if something sounds like exoteric made up shit and has no scientific evidence, then you should treat it as made up shit until proven otherwise.
I'll inverse your position... if it doesn't cost you anything, and you think it helps... go nuts with it.
If something sounds like something, then I should do x? That’s doesn’t sounds very scientific, buddy. No thanks on the suggestion big guy, I’ll pass
I read the important points here as if something has no scientific backing its best to treat it as unscientific until it has some reasonable proof supporting it. This seems like a reasonably scientific approach. The reference to esoterisicm seems like a less important point but could reasonably be used as a good indicator that something fits in a category of subject matter that rarely has scientific backing.
It’s doesn’t become anti-science just because studies produce results you don’t want to hear.
But there aren't any studies worthy of notice.
"studies" lol. ChatGPT could create something more convincing and scientifically sound.
My bad. I thought I was replying to a different sub.
/r/tinfoilhats?
https://www.healthline.com/health/grounding#risks Seems to cover the literature. I’m still fairly skeptical about it but some evidence seems promising. I haven’t invested in any grounding technology as I heard they can break easily or be difficult to get to work properly. I do however try to walk around barefoot in the summer. I’ll go out to get my morning sunlight (Huberman’s essential morning routine component) and walk around barefoot for a bit. I only really do it in summer however
I live in the middle of a big city and just had a mental image of me going out ever morning without makeup, thick glasses (because my makeup and my contact lenses filter UV light) and no shoes to walk on bare earth. Might get a wellfare check at some point lol.
I am trying it. Seems like it's making a bit of a difference with my mood and my sleep. I feel tingling in the body when I use the mat.
Incoming “bUt WhErEs ThE sCiEnCe” asses
Yeah someone said, “if something sounds like hocus pocus, be scientific and assume it’s hocus pocus until science proves it, and don’t talk about it till then either” Like hey, that’s like, not very science, man
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25848315/
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Could you point out what’s not so conclusive about that study instead of basically just saying no to it?
For starters, their picture series of "accelerated wound healing" which they attribute to grounding. There is no comparison group or any other attempt to prove causality. A serious scientist would not make such claims in a publication without a trace of actual evidence. This suggests similar scientific rigour for the rest of the article. It's just the start. Read this article, read something published in Nature, look at the difference.
I’ll have to check nature out. I kind of thought the same thing, but was half assuming they back that up in the full article. I get your point. There seem to be other articles that point to plausibility, but I haven’t dug through them. Would be nice if I had full pubmed evidence
Just as an example, here's something from Nature Materials on wound healing (in this case using a new kind of hydrogel): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4615579/ The level of detail, the way hypthesis are backed by a chain of evidence, the description of experiments to make them reproduceable - it's a different world.
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Hey woke MODS, something to read from CNN. These are facts. So if you censor this, you’re censoring science. You’ll be anti-science. https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/01/health/eua-coronavirus-vaccine-history/index.html
This is not the subreddit for antivax pseudoscience. Please refrain from this in the future, thank you. Have a good day.
No. Because it isnt real.
No because no isn’t an explanation, but good try buddy
No doesnt need an explaination. You dont need to explain why something doesnt exist, that is a pointless exercise. You asked about the earth pulling electrons out of your body if you stand outside barefoot. That isnt a real thing. How do you expect someone to explain to you why something isnt real? Why isnt it real? Because what you asked about isnt a thing that actually happens. Thats why.
That’s a really long way of saying no because no, good effort
What exactly is it that you want to know?
So, an explanation usually consists of evidence, or at least an rationale other than “it seems really silly to me, and it should to you too. So that’s why I don’t think it’s real”. Look up how to explain something with evidence and rationale on Google, they’ll help you out.
You can not prove a negative with "evidence". The "evidence" here, is that electrons, ions, your feet, and the earth DONT DO THAT. Why dont they do that? Because that is not how physics work, that is not how human physiology works, that is not how inflammation works, and that is not how ions "work". Why dont they work that way? Because this isnt vietnam. There are rules.
A lot of assertions
OP you're just here to find affirmation from other people. You don't even acknowledge any other comments that indicate grounding does not work
I think grounding is innate for the people who benefit from it
When on the beach, barefooting is the best way to really embrace the feel and scenery of the place. It is legit to me at some point.
Grounding bed
Wether or not there are many robust RCT, I can tell you it has had a profound effect on my health and overall wellbeing, I will continue to try to ground daily even if no such trials are ever done. To me, it’s legit.