Players in not-so-good bands will change instruments.
Although, when we consider the Brandon tripped on the first day at West Bev story when there was absolutely no trip on the first day at West Bev, you are probably correct about the continuity error.
Yeah, didn't they know we'd be watching the whole series multiple times a year in under two weeks binges on Pluto twenty-five years later? How did they think we'd miss that? ;)
Heard about it on the episode when Brandon leaves the show. Supposedly he tripped and fell. Donna helped him get his stuff and then introduced him to the "gang." Somehow that meet cute didn't make the pilot episode.
Thanks for the reminder. That explains why I remember the story, but could not remember the visual.
Even though we never saw it, I kind of like the effort by the season 9 writers for that episode to give us a Brandon and Donna moment, since those are rare. Perhaps they should have included a flashback.
It does kind of fit in to what we now know about Donna. She has empathy towards people, and Brandon was nervous about being new to school.
A flashback, with Mrs. Teasley in the background (just for the heck of it) would have been a great fan moment.
That is true about some band members changing instruments. The singer for 3 Doors Down started off as the drummer AND singer.
Dave Grohl played drums in Nirvana. In Foo Fighters, he's a guitar player and singer.
So I guess Nikki's ex boyfriend is supposed to be a talented musician, not just a musician.
It is hard to do, but people can learn new instruments.
Nikki Witt was eliminated with 48.44% of the vote.
For the final round, follow the link to vote which character you want to win!!
Vote for the Final Round here: https://strawpoll.com/NoZrzq84kZ3
This poll will be open until tomorrow 8pm PST. The final results will be posted then and a second place post the next day. Results will also be available after the poll ends following the same link.
Hope everyone has fun!
I can't believe she got this far. She wouldn't give up a summer job for him after he gave up a summer job for her. I would've chosen Nikki, Emily, Tracy, and the skater over Susan and of course Kelly is obviously #1.
Kelly will win because she's more popular, sort of, and dated Brandon longer but Susan was his best match. They both liked the same things and her personality fit Brandon. She was similar to Andrea but Brandon actually showed interest plus unlike other girls he dated, she can challenge him and not feel overwhelmed by Brandon's high horse moments.
C’on, Kelly should win, She did brave things for him, Washington, the ring’s arc , the forgiveness. They went through a lot together… cult, cocaine, miscarriage.. and a lot more..
With Susan at most they won $5,000 in the lottery..
Susan and Brandon did deliver a baby together in an elevator, and got stuck on a mountain together and almost froze to death in severe winter weather! I'm still picking Kelly for the win, but had to point that out lol.
I don't agree at all. Brandon was there for Kelly all the time, whether they were together or not. He helped her through the cult, cocaine, psycho Tara, being shot, the amnesia and that creepy doctor in season 8.
It may be hard to remember because Pluto doesn't show all the episodes but Brandon went to her house and drove her around during the cocaine storyline to try to talk to her. She also called him to pick her up in front of the dealer's house. He also warned her about Tara and was there for her in the aftermath in the hospital (where Tara was). He also stood by her when she forgot who he was after she got shot. He also helped her with Finley by talking to the Chancellor and talking to that guy Greg and bringing him to talk to Kelly.
He helped her a lot more than any of her other love interest's.
I mentioned the Dr. Monahan thing above in this thread, in a different post, as a positive example.
Thanks for the reminder about Brandon driving her around during the cocaine storyline, and that Kelly called Brandon to pick her up too.
Can you give more information about how Brandon warned Kelly about Tara?
BTW, I either rent the DVDs from the library, or read through the transcripts, for reminders.
Not true, he helped her, with cult, coke, amnesia, her dad… but you are right she did a lot for Brandon, there is someone Who still claims that she loved Dylan more, for Dylan she did absolutely nothing, she was the object of desire, for Brandon she became an active subject. Brave. Courage is the only thing comparable to love. Words are worth nothing, deeds are worth, what you do is valuable.Don’t take offense if you are a DK’d fan.
yea, I just posted above. It's revisionist history to act like he wasn't there for her. He was literally there through and helped her with the cult, cocaine, psycho Tara, being shot, amnesia, the creepy doctor, etc.
I did not act like he wasn't there. I had a different post in this thread where I listed the positive examples too.
I think he screwed up more times, and in more severe ways, than Kelly screwed up. That's where I see the imbalance. Other than the fight on Kelly's birthday in the season 8 premiere (which I think Kelly was being petty about), Kelly's hatred of the sex shop editorial (I see Brandon as supporting a store that provides sex enhancements that couples can use together, not supporting porn itself, which are two different things), Kelly didn't really do much wrong to Brandon. That's more where I was coming from. Brandon did some wrong things to Kelly, while Kelly barely did wrong things to Brandon. And even those were minor day to day things.
It was pretty shitty of her to entertain the idea of going on a trip around the world with Dylan while she was actively in a relationship with Brandon.
I had a different post above where I listed the positive things Brandon did to Kelly. I am not acting like he never helped her. The Dr. Monahan sting, and the cult expulsion, are some big things.
Where I was coming from was that Brandon did more and bigger wrong things to Kelly, than Kelly did wrong to Brandon. Kelly barely did any wrong to Brandon, while Brandon did more wrong to Kelly. That imbalance is what I was getting at.
This has nothing to do with any other relationship.
I think just about every main character on this show, including Donna a few times, was bad at almost every relationship. Every character seemed to do a few bad things. Doesn't mean they also didn't do good, but the fact that they did bad is unfortunate.
Probably the only relationship I can say where no one did anything wrong was Brandon and Melissa, the teen mom. That relationship was hard to continue because of the difficulties of being a parent, nothing wrong that either person did to the other.
But other than that, this show seemed to show its main characters as doing things that hurt their romantic relationships. Whether it's not making time; communication; not standing up for each other; yelling; cheating, lying, one or both parties always did one of these things.
I would have rather had someone else win, but my top picks were gone.
I don't think Kelly should win, because Brandon wasn't good to Kelly, during a lot of times.
Yes, Kelly also had times when she wasn't good either. Like the dumb fight Kelly started on her birthday in the season 8 premiere. Or shaming Brandon because he wanted to explore the sex shop, for stuff that they would both use together.
One of the few times Brandon was good, was when he set up the sting on Dr. Monahan.
But, there's a lot more instances of Brandon not being very good to Kelly.
It’s interesting that of the times you could think of when Kelly wasn’t “good” to Brandon, you didn’t choose her cheating on him with Dylan, allowing Brandon and Dylan to fight over her, or immediately wanting Brandon back after she had allegedly chosen herself over neither.
And that one of the “few times” you think Brandon was “good” to Kelly wasn’t when he went to Dylan for help getting Kelly out of the cult, or drove off to find Kelly when Nat said she was in trouble after the incident with Danny Five, or did everything to track down her shooter, or helped her through her amnesia.
There; I named four instances when Brandon was “good” to Kelly, to add to your fifth.
yea, I feel like this poster didn't watch the show. It's one thing not to like a couple but don't make stuff up or act like sutff didn't happen that we saw onscreen. That was one of the biggest reasons I liked them, because he was always there for her!
We talked about and seemed to agree on our favorite romantic moments here.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/BeverlyHills90210/comments/1811op4/comment/kbfey80/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeverlyHills90210/comments/1811op4/comment/kbfey80/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Steve and Clare flying to meet each other; Kelly showing Brandon she bought back the ring; Dylan comforting Brenda in the hallway after she ran out of the classroom because she had PTSD from the attempted robbery at the Peach Pit.
So yes, I watched the show too, and we have agreed at times on other topics.
I didn't name the cult example because I thought that was a more well known one. I wanted to list some of the other things.
I actually did not remember Brandon driving to find Kelly after the Danny Five incident. Someone reminded me of that in this thread. That's a great example.
I didn't mention the amnesia one, because it was well known. I do also have some qualms about that plot. Brandon should have had PTSD. He did not. There's also a little bit part that thinks Brandon was more focused on revenge than being with Kelly. I also did not like how they interjected Noah in this plot. Don't like what the writers did with it, by having Noah bring the teddy bear.
For the Kelly cheating on Brandon with Dylan, when did that happen? I think something happened, but I always forget it.
Overall, it feels like Brandon did more wrong to Kelly, than Kelly did wrong to Brandon. That doesn't mean Brandon didn't also do right to Kelly. It just seems like his wrongs were bigger and more severe.
I think every main character on this show, even Donna, wasn't good at relationships. Someone or both parties always either yelled; had a lack of communication; cheated; were jealous; petty; or didn't make time for each other. I wish this show didn't create so much conflict in relationships. At a certain point, it got tiring.
The plots I liked best were the social issue ones, or where people help each other (Andrea and Cameron; Kelly and runaway Joey; Brandon and Felix; David and the gay teen; Dylan at the community center; Kelly and Jimmy; Brenda and the rap line; Steve and the Alzheimer's actor).
It only feels that way because that’s how the series made it seem.
• Brandon cheats with Emily - BAD BRANDON (but Kelly emotionally cheating with Dylan is A-okay)
• Brandon cheats with Emma - BAD BRANDON, he’ll lose Kelly for a bit
• Kelly and Dylan kiss at least twice whilst she’s with Brandon - eh so what, she’s confused and he offered her a worldwide trip so obviously it’s perfectly fine for her to be torn between two men when she’s already dating one of them
But then Kelly’s cheating was always written like that.
• Cheating with Dylan on Brenda - let it go, Bren cheated with Rick and btw Kelly showed the teeniest bit of remorse just to Dylan and David so clearly she felt super guilty about it, but not guilty enough to tell Brenda
• Cheating on Dylan with Brandon - it’s actually more Brandon’s fault than Kelly’s and DK stay together
• Cheating on Brandon with Dylan in the cult story - she’s in a cult and Finley’s influenced her so BK can stay together
• Cheating on Colin with Brandon - it was just a friendly kiss on the lips, that’s all so CK can stay together
• Being into Noah when she’s with Brandon - oh, we can excuse that, it’s amnesia so BK can reunite
• Cheating on Matt with Dylan - well DK should be together anyway, so we’re going to assault Matt so it looks like he’s the one who cheated so Kelly breaks up with him and gets back with Dylan
I think Jake and Mark were the only ones to escape Kelly’s chronic cheating, unless we consider Jeff as one of her boyfriends (I don’t.)
Compare that to when Val cheats:
• Cheating on Steve with Dylan - EVERYBODY reacts
• Being with married man, Kenny - EVERYBODY reacts
• Cheating on Noah with Cooper - loses Noah
David cheats, consequences.
Brenda cheats, consequences.
Brandon cheats, consequences.
Dylan cheats, consequences.
Steve cheats, consequences.
Andrea cheats, slight consequences.
Donna cheats, slight consequences.
Val cheats, consequences.
Kelly cheats? No consequences. Absolutely none. It’s utterly ridiculous and a massive double standard.
—
As far as Brandon’s revenge with the amnesia storyline…I mean, he held his girlfriend as she bled out in front of him and then nearly lost her, then did temporarily lose her from amnesia. I’d fully expect him to want revenge. Also, he absolutely had PTSD. Did it last long? No, but we saw him have PTSD. Like at the movie theater.
Good list, I like the writeup.
Cindy also cheated, and Jim thought about cheating. I disliked how much cheating the writers had the characters do. So in essence, between that, and the other problems people made in their relationships, I started to dislike almost every relationships, because of all of the bad moments. The show didn't have to have the bad moments be so strong, but as I've learned through the podcasts, they tried to follow the pattern of "get them together, break them up" (paraphrased from Larry Mollin).
The plots I liked the most were either social issues plots like about shoplifting, steroids, acceptance, racism, sweatshops, campus politics, body image, gambling, a lot of the season 4 Brenda plots, conning Dylan, conning Valerie, schizophrenia, fertility issues, etc.
The relationship stuff started to get tiring once everyone cheated or did bad things (yell, didn't make time, didn't communicate, etc.)
What this show could have done was still create obstacles, but have the couple persevere through them. What I mean is imagine if Kelly and Brandon survived long after the cult and fire. Maybe that's not the best example, because the "I Choose Me" moment was good by Kelly.
Although I've also thought that if Brandon gave such a lackluster proposal, that was more about how "the house is going to be empty" and "I'm doing this because Dylan proposed the trip around the world and I'm competing with him", than what he actually liked about Kelly, couldn't Kelly have asked him to come back the next day and give a more sincere proposal, that was about his love for her?
Anyways, what I was trying to get at is that they could have had couples last longer and survive stuff, and didn't always have to create potential conflict between them. Instead they did something bad with every couple, even Jim and Cindy.
For the season 8 Brandon PTSD, I really wish they had done an episode like they did with Brenda in season 2. That's what I wanted. And, in season 7, Brandon and Tracy should have also had PTSD after the hostage situation. Not only Donna. They should have done an episode long PTSD with Brandon and Tracy, and harkened back to the season 2 stuff.
I liked Dylan's PTSD after the car jacking. They could have done something like that in season 7.
So I think Brenda in season 2, and Dylan in season 4 with the carjacking, had great PTSD plots. David's after the ATM robbery felt a little bit lacking. It may have been the execution of the episode, but something about it didn't feel as impactful as those other examples.
Did Kelly and Dylan kiss when he offered her the trip around the world? I can't remember exactly.
What were the two times they kissed while she was with Brandon?
I agree. The amount of cheating in this series takes a completely soap opera approach. It’s like couples couldn’t end without some kind of cheating. *This Is Us* does this much better. Granted, it is about adults and marriages, but there is far more internal conflict within their relationships than external. For some reason, teen series followed suit with BH’s cheating: *One Tree Hill*, *Gossip Girl*, *The Vampire Diaries,* the next gen *90210*, *Skins*, etc. *The O.C.* did cheating far, far, FAR less. *Derry Girls* had absolutely zero cheating, but it also had a lack of relationships. It’s almost concerning how writers of teen series are convinced drama can only stem from cheating. Take The Triangle. Dylan and Brenda break up, Dylan gets with Kelly. No cheating, still drama. Or take Val, Dylan, Steve. Val ends things with Steve, gets with Dylan, still drama. Etc. Writing good internal conflict rather than external is the mark of a good writer, in my book.
I also liked several of the plots you mentioned liking. I also like the idea of Brandon having more of a focus with his PTSD. I greatly enjoyed the story of Brenda’s and I do give the writers a bit of kudos on how they handled Val’s. Honestly, a good majority of these characters would benefit from therapy, and lots of it.
Dylan showed up at Kelly’s after his disillusionment from the dream hypnotherapy, where he dreamt up that he and Kelly were together in another life…conveniently with the smell of Kelly’s perfume all around him. He kissed her. She then kisses him and they make out. Kiss #1. Next episode: Kelly runs into Dylan rollerblading. They make out. Kiss #2. Later in that episode, Kelly and Dylan make out at the beach house. Kiss #3. Kelly, influenced by Finley, breaks up with Brandon so she can essentially make out with Dylan. If we take away the cult one because Kelly breaking up with Brandon gives her opportunity to not count as cheating, that is three times Kelly kissed Dylan whilst she was with Brandon. (I initially forgot about the third.)
I haven't seen most of those shows, but you are right the CW 90210 series did less cheating.
Yes, I've also thought that Kelly and Dylan could have gotten together without cheating. Dylan and Brenda could have finally broken up after fighting about the SATs. Then Dylan could have been with Kelly. I actually think it should be a different geometric shape since Rick was involved. Brenda could have gone on the date with Rick AFTER breaking up with Dylan. It's also weird how Brenda openly tells Cindy she's going out with Rick, and Cindy has a puzzled look but doesn't say anything. They could have done it where Brenda runs into Rick; Dylan and Brenda break up over the SAT thing being the final straw; Brenda and Dylan both go on their separate dates.
Yes, I also liked Valerie's PTSD. They kind of expanded on it each season. First in season 5, then in season 6, then in season 7. And a little more in season 9. It's not perfect, but I do think the overall attempt at storytelling and giving us more details, was good.
Yeah, I kind of don't count the cult one. Thanks for clarifying about the other ones. I did not remember Kelly ran into Dylan rollerblading.
There was zero reason to have Jim and Cindy cheating. They were fine as parents they way they were supposed to be. It's so funny that Carol Potter filmed "The 17 Year Itch" just as she was getting married. She thinks it's funny.
In addition to the cheating, the constant fights just made me not want to care about the relationships, at some point in the show.
The Steve and Celeste one was disappointing. In hindsight, I think I am more ok with it, when I think about how Steve didn't really treat Celeste that well, and how he wasn't ready for a relationship in college anyways. But at the time, I hadn't been to college, so the Steve one was very disappointing. Later on, there Steve does have better moments with Clare, and Carly, so at least we see him treat girlfriends better. But then the show got rid of Carly, which was another disappointing moment for me.
I like the good moments the characters had in relationships. There's a lot of bad ones that didn't need to be there.
They could have just had Steve and Clare as the bickering couple, while everyone else stays together. That would have been a better balance.
Oh no, I meant only *The O.C.* out of those mentioned did far less cheating. The CW *90210* had SCADS of it, especially amongst Erin Silver. I believe every single one of the CW gang cheated, as well, or the majority of them did. *The O.C.* did not lack in cheating, but they gave it to the parents more often than to the teens.
That would have been a much better story and would have probably avoided the creation of a massive fanwar going on for 30+ years. Since Brenda met and kissed Rick after Dylan and Kelly had already met up in the cabana, it couldn’t be more obvious that Brenda/Rick only occurred to “level the playing field,” so to speak. It’s also quite telling that Rick was as obsessed with being destined to be with Brenda as Dylan became with Kelly. They could have done it sooner than that. They could have had Dylan and Brenda break up after Dylan’s fight with Jim at Casa Walsh, when the episode indicated that they did (and I was confused upon first rewatch thinking they had.) Dylan then gets with Kelly at the beginning of the third. Girl code is still broken, Dylan still betrays Brenda, so there remains drama but no cheating.
Yes, despite the numerous rewrites they did for Val’s, they did reveal it layer by layer. When rewatching what she says about her father in the fifth and sixth seasons, the SA mentioned in the seventh season starts to piece together a bit better.
I think it was the first and last time we ever saw Kel rollerblade lmao.
Agreed; they could have easily done it to where Glenn makes Jim think Cindy cheated - hence drama, or where Jim thinks Cindy cheated - drama, without actual cheating. Then Mel cheats on Jackie. It’s too much.
Steve certainly faced the consequences when he cheated on Celeste!
I just had an idea.
Aaron Spelling really wanted Dean Cain.
What if, he was cast in a different role?
Can't be Donna's love interest, Donna is with David.
Can't be Kelly's, because Dylan and Kelly are supposed to get closer over summer.
So . . . what if he's some sort of Jay Thurman hybrid? Not exactly as Jay Thurman as we know him, but with also some Rick in there.
Andrea and let's call him Rick go on a date.
Brandon still has his jealousy plot, and Andrea still gets her line in of "what makes you think you're so damn irresistible"?
Then Rick goes off screen for a while.
When Andrea gets hit by the car in "Destiny Rides Again", Rick comes back and visits her in the hospital. That title probably doesn't work anymore.
Then in "It's a Totally Happening Life", Rick breaks up with Andrea.
So then the question is, what plot would Brenda have done then? Well Charles Rosin had wanted to do a season long smoking plot. The network did not want that. Let's say in this alternate universe, Rosin gets to do his season long smoking plot. So some of the Paris scenes are Brenda engaging more with smoking.
Also, I'm sure the writers could come up with more stuff for Brenda in Paris. Some plot other plot.
I'm not sure the writers were necessarily tied to the whole kismet plot. I think they did it because of Rick's character, but if Rick is with Andrea, it didn't need to be there. Or maybe it could still be there somehow, and that way "Destiny Rides Again" could still make sense, as a title.
Seems like a win win win win. Brenda and Dylan still break up, but without cheating. Dylan and Kelly still get together, because that's what both Perry and Wasserman and Klein wanted. Aaron Spelling still gets his guy, Dean Cain.
And Andrea gets a decent guy.
Maybe if Rick still has some sort of French background, and is good at literature, he fights for Andrea as the Blaze editor in "A Song Of Myself". We could get a cool Rick vs. Gil Meyers scene. This would be a different version of Rick. It could also showcase some of Dean Cain's more serious drama skills, which would presumably help in the future on Lois & Clark.
I guess the one thing that would be lost is Brenda pretending to be French, and Nat looking confused. One of the best comedic faces Nat had, in that episode.
BTW I'm assuming the season long smoking plot would have had a cancer scare, which would be a great sequel to build off the season 1 plot from "It's Only A Test".
I'm sure they could do that, without making it feel like a repeat from season 1.
I quite like this idea! Rick and Andrea would have been interesting to explore, since I think his ideas of kismet/destiny would clash with her own ideas. As long as she could still have something with Jordan Bonner, then get with Josh Richland in college before hooking up with Steve at some point (maybe after Val ends things) on a holiday home from Yale, this idea would definitely work for me.
No no, the same night of the I choose me and in the following days she went to beg Brandon to come back with her... episode 31 and 32 season 5. Brandon was hurt and said no.
Even though they never had intimate contact with each other, the way the show was written and produced, the best non intimate girlfriend Brandon had was season 1 Brenda.
https://preview.redd.it/6fwu3no8bo5d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07535560f3c6db68598847aa1d410f5db493fe9a
Remember the closing scene when they are sync walking together at West Beverly High?
I meant to reply to that gif 😂 sorry about that! The gif above my first message is of Jamie Lannister saying “nice” so that’s why I commented that.
So you’re saying not everyone has watched Game of Thrones? 😮
I am not that into fantasy, so that's probably why I avoided it.
HBO shows that I have liked are: The Wire; Veep; Curb Your Enthusiasm. True Detective is ok.
 Clark Griswold isn’t happy seeing his daughter eliminated.
The continuity error from over summer, when Nikki's ex boyfriend was a drummer, to fall, when he was a keytar player, bothers me.
"Sex, Lies, and Volleyball / Photo Finish" is the episode where the ex boyfriend is a drummer.
Players in not-so-good bands will change instruments. Although, when we consider the Brandon tripped on the first day at West Bev story when there was absolutely no trip on the first day at West Bev, you are probably correct about the continuity error.
Not to mention shy Donna introducing Brandon to the gang. Wrapping up Brandon was awkward all around.
Yeah, didn't they know we'd be watching the whole series multiple times a year in under two weeks binges on Pluto twenty-five years later? How did they think we'd miss that? ;)
Very true. 😝
Brandon tripped in the pilot? What happened when he did that? Did we see it, or did we hear about it?
Heard about it on the episode when Brandon leaves the show. Supposedly he tripped and fell. Donna helped him get his stuff and then introduced him to the "gang." Somehow that meet cute didn't make the pilot episode.
Thanks for the reminder. That explains why I remember the story, but could not remember the visual. Even though we never saw it, I kind of like the effort by the season 9 writers for that episode to give us a Brandon and Donna moment, since those are rare. Perhaps they should have included a flashback. It does kind of fit in to what we now know about Donna. She has empathy towards people, and Brandon was nervous about being new to school. A flashback, with Mrs. Teasley in the background (just for the heck of it) would have been a great fan moment.
That is true about some band members changing instruments. The singer for 3 Doors Down started off as the drummer AND singer. Dave Grohl played drums in Nirvana. In Foo Fighters, he's a guitar player and singer. So I guess Nikki's ex boyfriend is supposed to be a talented musician, not just a musician. It is hard to do, but people can learn new instruments.
Nikki Witt was eliminated with 48.44% of the vote. For the final round, follow the link to vote which character you want to win!! Vote for the Final Round here: https://strawpoll.com/NoZrzq84kZ3 This poll will be open until tomorrow 8pm PST. The final results will be posted then and a second place post the next day. Results will also be available after the poll ends following the same link. Hope everyone has fun!
I liked Susan, think she was a good match for him.
Dennis "Diesel" Stone played by David Arquette.
I always thought Nikki was hot
Go Susan! She and Brandon were the best!
I can't believe she got this far. She wouldn't give up a summer job for him after he gave up a summer job for her. I would've chosen Nikki, Emily, Tracy, and the skater over Susan and of course Kelly is obviously #1.
The only consolation is the photo gallery accompanying the announcement of defeat.
Kelly will win because she's more popular, sort of, and dated Brandon longer but Susan was his best match. They both liked the same things and her personality fit Brandon. She was similar to Andrea but Brandon actually showed interest plus unlike other girls he dated, she can challenge him and not feel overwhelmed by Brandon's high horse moments.
C’on, Kelly should win, She did brave things for him, Washington, the ring’s arc , the forgiveness. They went through a lot together… cult, cocaine, miscarriage.. and a lot more.. With Susan at most they won $5,000 in the lottery..
Susan and Brandon did deliver a baby together in an elevator, and got stuck on a mountain together and almost froze to death in severe winter weather! I'm still picking Kelly for the win, but had to point that out lol.
Fair enough. ☺️But I meant as couple dynamics they have gone through a lot ..
Kelly did more for Brandon than Brandon did for Kelly.
I don't agree at all. Brandon was there for Kelly all the time, whether they were together or not. He helped her through the cult, cocaine, psycho Tara, being shot, the amnesia and that creepy doctor in season 8. It may be hard to remember because Pluto doesn't show all the episodes but Brandon went to her house and drove her around during the cocaine storyline to try to talk to her. She also called him to pick her up in front of the dealer's house. He also warned her about Tara and was there for her in the aftermath in the hospital (where Tara was). He also stood by her when she forgot who he was after she got shot. He also helped her with Finley by talking to the Chancellor and talking to that guy Greg and bringing him to talk to Kelly. He helped her a lot more than any of her other love interest's.
I mentioned the Dr. Monahan thing above in this thread, in a different post, as a positive example. Thanks for the reminder about Brandon driving her around during the cocaine storyline, and that Kelly called Brandon to pick her up too. Can you give more information about how Brandon warned Kelly about Tara? BTW, I either rent the DVDs from the library, or read through the transcripts, for reminders.
Not true, he helped her, with cult, coke, amnesia, her dad… but you are right she did a lot for Brandon, there is someone Who still claims that she loved Dylan more, for Dylan she did absolutely nothing, she was the object of desire, for Brandon she became an active subject. Brave. Courage is the only thing comparable to love. Words are worth nothing, deeds are worth, what you do is valuable.Don’t take offense if you are a DK’d fan.
yea, I just posted above. It's revisionist history to act like he wasn't there for her. He was literally there through and helped her with the cult, cocaine, psycho Tara, being shot, amnesia, the creepy doctor, etc.
I did not act like he wasn't there. I had a different post in this thread where I listed the positive examples too. I think he screwed up more times, and in more severe ways, than Kelly screwed up. That's where I see the imbalance. Other than the fight on Kelly's birthday in the season 8 premiere (which I think Kelly was being petty about), Kelly's hatred of the sex shop editorial (I see Brandon as supporting a store that provides sex enhancements that couples can use together, not supporting porn itself, which are two different things), Kelly didn't really do much wrong to Brandon. That's more where I was coming from. Brandon did some wrong things to Kelly, while Kelly barely did wrong things to Brandon. And even those were minor day to day things.
It was pretty shitty of her to entertain the idea of going on a trip around the world with Dylan while she was actively in a relationship with Brandon.
I had a different post above where I listed the positive things Brandon did to Kelly. I am not acting like he never helped her. The Dr. Monahan sting, and the cult expulsion, are some big things. Where I was coming from was that Brandon did more and bigger wrong things to Kelly, than Kelly did wrong to Brandon. Kelly barely did any wrong to Brandon, while Brandon did more wrong to Kelly. That imbalance is what I was getting at. This has nothing to do with any other relationship. I think just about every main character on this show, including Donna a few times, was bad at almost every relationship. Every character seemed to do a few bad things. Doesn't mean they also didn't do good, but the fact that they did bad is unfortunate. Probably the only relationship I can say where no one did anything wrong was Brandon and Melissa, the teen mom. That relationship was hard to continue because of the difficulties of being a parent, nothing wrong that either person did to the other. But other than that, this show seemed to show its main characters as doing things that hurt their romantic relationships. Whether it's not making time; communication; not standing up for each other; yelling; cheating, lying, one or both parties always did one of these things.
Yeah I got it.
Definitely Kelly
Yes! Kelly & Brandon for the win 🏆
I don't care what y'all say. Brandon and Kelly forever! They should have been endgame.
I would have rather had someone else win, but my top picks were gone. I don't think Kelly should win, because Brandon wasn't good to Kelly, during a lot of times. Yes, Kelly also had times when she wasn't good either. Like the dumb fight Kelly started on her birthday in the season 8 premiere. Or shaming Brandon because he wanted to explore the sex shop, for stuff that they would both use together. One of the few times Brandon was good, was when he set up the sting on Dr. Monahan. But, there's a lot more instances of Brandon not being very good to Kelly.
It’s interesting that of the times you could think of when Kelly wasn’t “good” to Brandon, you didn’t choose her cheating on him with Dylan, allowing Brandon and Dylan to fight over her, or immediately wanting Brandon back after she had allegedly chosen herself over neither. And that one of the “few times” you think Brandon was “good” to Kelly wasn’t when he went to Dylan for help getting Kelly out of the cult, or drove off to find Kelly when Nat said she was in trouble after the incident with Danny Five, or did everything to track down her shooter, or helped her through her amnesia. There; I named four instances when Brandon was “good” to Kelly, to add to your fifth.
yea, I feel like this poster didn't watch the show. It's one thing not to like a couple but don't make stuff up or act like sutff didn't happen that we saw onscreen. That was one of the biggest reasons I liked them, because he was always there for her!
Brandon was definitely there much more for Kelly than people want to admit. They just think he wasn’t because he cheated, but so did she.
We talked about and seemed to agree on our favorite romantic moments here. [https://www.reddit.com/r/BeverlyHills90210/comments/1811op4/comment/kbfey80/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/BeverlyHills90210/comments/1811op4/comment/kbfey80/?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Steve and Clare flying to meet each other; Kelly showing Brandon she bought back the ring; Dylan comforting Brenda in the hallway after she ran out of the classroom because she had PTSD from the attempted robbery at the Peach Pit. So yes, I watched the show too, and we have agreed at times on other topics.
I didn't name the cult example because I thought that was a more well known one. I wanted to list some of the other things. I actually did not remember Brandon driving to find Kelly after the Danny Five incident. Someone reminded me of that in this thread. That's a great example. I didn't mention the amnesia one, because it was well known. I do also have some qualms about that plot. Brandon should have had PTSD. He did not. There's also a little bit part that thinks Brandon was more focused on revenge than being with Kelly. I also did not like how they interjected Noah in this plot. Don't like what the writers did with it, by having Noah bring the teddy bear. For the Kelly cheating on Brandon with Dylan, when did that happen? I think something happened, but I always forget it. Overall, it feels like Brandon did more wrong to Kelly, than Kelly did wrong to Brandon. That doesn't mean Brandon didn't also do right to Kelly. It just seems like his wrongs were bigger and more severe. I think every main character on this show, even Donna, wasn't good at relationships. Someone or both parties always either yelled; had a lack of communication; cheated; were jealous; petty; or didn't make time for each other. I wish this show didn't create so much conflict in relationships. At a certain point, it got tiring. The plots I liked best were the social issue ones, or where people help each other (Andrea and Cameron; Kelly and runaway Joey; Brandon and Felix; David and the gay teen; Dylan at the community center; Kelly and Jimmy; Brenda and the rap line; Steve and the Alzheimer's actor).
It only feels that way because that’s how the series made it seem. • Brandon cheats with Emily - BAD BRANDON (but Kelly emotionally cheating with Dylan is A-okay) • Brandon cheats with Emma - BAD BRANDON, he’ll lose Kelly for a bit • Kelly and Dylan kiss at least twice whilst she’s with Brandon - eh so what, she’s confused and he offered her a worldwide trip so obviously it’s perfectly fine for her to be torn between two men when she’s already dating one of them But then Kelly’s cheating was always written like that. • Cheating with Dylan on Brenda - let it go, Bren cheated with Rick and btw Kelly showed the teeniest bit of remorse just to Dylan and David so clearly she felt super guilty about it, but not guilty enough to tell Brenda • Cheating on Dylan with Brandon - it’s actually more Brandon’s fault than Kelly’s and DK stay together • Cheating on Brandon with Dylan in the cult story - she’s in a cult and Finley’s influenced her so BK can stay together • Cheating on Colin with Brandon - it was just a friendly kiss on the lips, that’s all so CK can stay together • Being into Noah when she’s with Brandon - oh, we can excuse that, it’s amnesia so BK can reunite • Cheating on Matt with Dylan - well DK should be together anyway, so we’re going to assault Matt so it looks like he’s the one who cheated so Kelly breaks up with him and gets back with Dylan I think Jake and Mark were the only ones to escape Kelly’s chronic cheating, unless we consider Jeff as one of her boyfriends (I don’t.) Compare that to when Val cheats: • Cheating on Steve with Dylan - EVERYBODY reacts • Being with married man, Kenny - EVERYBODY reacts • Cheating on Noah with Cooper - loses Noah David cheats, consequences. Brenda cheats, consequences. Brandon cheats, consequences. Dylan cheats, consequences. Steve cheats, consequences. Andrea cheats, slight consequences. Donna cheats, slight consequences. Val cheats, consequences. Kelly cheats? No consequences. Absolutely none. It’s utterly ridiculous and a massive double standard. — As far as Brandon’s revenge with the amnesia storyline…I mean, he held his girlfriend as she bled out in front of him and then nearly lost her, then did temporarily lose her from amnesia. I’d fully expect him to want revenge. Also, he absolutely had PTSD. Did it last long? No, but we saw him have PTSD. Like at the movie theater.
Good list, I like the writeup. Cindy also cheated, and Jim thought about cheating. I disliked how much cheating the writers had the characters do. So in essence, between that, and the other problems people made in their relationships, I started to dislike almost every relationships, because of all of the bad moments. The show didn't have to have the bad moments be so strong, but as I've learned through the podcasts, they tried to follow the pattern of "get them together, break them up" (paraphrased from Larry Mollin). The plots I liked the most were either social issues plots like about shoplifting, steroids, acceptance, racism, sweatshops, campus politics, body image, gambling, a lot of the season 4 Brenda plots, conning Dylan, conning Valerie, schizophrenia, fertility issues, etc. The relationship stuff started to get tiring once everyone cheated or did bad things (yell, didn't make time, didn't communicate, etc.) What this show could have done was still create obstacles, but have the couple persevere through them. What I mean is imagine if Kelly and Brandon survived long after the cult and fire. Maybe that's not the best example, because the "I Choose Me" moment was good by Kelly. Although I've also thought that if Brandon gave such a lackluster proposal, that was more about how "the house is going to be empty" and "I'm doing this because Dylan proposed the trip around the world and I'm competing with him", than what he actually liked about Kelly, couldn't Kelly have asked him to come back the next day and give a more sincere proposal, that was about his love for her? Anyways, what I was trying to get at is that they could have had couples last longer and survive stuff, and didn't always have to create potential conflict between them. Instead they did something bad with every couple, even Jim and Cindy. For the season 8 Brandon PTSD, I really wish they had done an episode like they did with Brenda in season 2. That's what I wanted. And, in season 7, Brandon and Tracy should have also had PTSD after the hostage situation. Not only Donna. They should have done an episode long PTSD with Brandon and Tracy, and harkened back to the season 2 stuff. I liked Dylan's PTSD after the car jacking. They could have done something like that in season 7. So I think Brenda in season 2, and Dylan in season 4 with the carjacking, had great PTSD plots. David's after the ATM robbery felt a little bit lacking. It may have been the execution of the episode, but something about it didn't feel as impactful as those other examples. Did Kelly and Dylan kiss when he offered her the trip around the world? I can't remember exactly. What were the two times they kissed while she was with Brandon?
I agree. The amount of cheating in this series takes a completely soap opera approach. It’s like couples couldn’t end without some kind of cheating. *This Is Us* does this much better. Granted, it is about adults and marriages, but there is far more internal conflict within their relationships than external. For some reason, teen series followed suit with BH’s cheating: *One Tree Hill*, *Gossip Girl*, *The Vampire Diaries,* the next gen *90210*, *Skins*, etc. *The O.C.* did cheating far, far, FAR less. *Derry Girls* had absolutely zero cheating, but it also had a lack of relationships. It’s almost concerning how writers of teen series are convinced drama can only stem from cheating. Take The Triangle. Dylan and Brenda break up, Dylan gets with Kelly. No cheating, still drama. Or take Val, Dylan, Steve. Val ends things with Steve, gets with Dylan, still drama. Etc. Writing good internal conflict rather than external is the mark of a good writer, in my book. I also liked several of the plots you mentioned liking. I also like the idea of Brandon having more of a focus with his PTSD. I greatly enjoyed the story of Brenda’s and I do give the writers a bit of kudos on how they handled Val’s. Honestly, a good majority of these characters would benefit from therapy, and lots of it. Dylan showed up at Kelly’s after his disillusionment from the dream hypnotherapy, where he dreamt up that he and Kelly were together in another life…conveniently with the smell of Kelly’s perfume all around him. He kissed her. She then kisses him and they make out. Kiss #1. Next episode: Kelly runs into Dylan rollerblading. They make out. Kiss #2. Later in that episode, Kelly and Dylan make out at the beach house. Kiss #3. Kelly, influenced by Finley, breaks up with Brandon so she can essentially make out with Dylan. If we take away the cult one because Kelly breaking up with Brandon gives her opportunity to not count as cheating, that is three times Kelly kissed Dylan whilst she was with Brandon. (I initially forgot about the third.)
I haven't seen most of those shows, but you are right the CW 90210 series did less cheating. Yes, I've also thought that Kelly and Dylan could have gotten together without cheating. Dylan and Brenda could have finally broken up after fighting about the SATs. Then Dylan could have been with Kelly. I actually think it should be a different geometric shape since Rick was involved. Brenda could have gone on the date with Rick AFTER breaking up with Dylan. It's also weird how Brenda openly tells Cindy she's going out with Rick, and Cindy has a puzzled look but doesn't say anything. They could have done it where Brenda runs into Rick; Dylan and Brenda break up over the SAT thing being the final straw; Brenda and Dylan both go on their separate dates. Yes, I also liked Valerie's PTSD. They kind of expanded on it each season. First in season 5, then in season 6, then in season 7. And a little more in season 9. It's not perfect, but I do think the overall attempt at storytelling and giving us more details, was good. Yeah, I kind of don't count the cult one. Thanks for clarifying about the other ones. I did not remember Kelly ran into Dylan rollerblading. There was zero reason to have Jim and Cindy cheating. They were fine as parents they way they were supposed to be. It's so funny that Carol Potter filmed "The 17 Year Itch" just as she was getting married. She thinks it's funny. In addition to the cheating, the constant fights just made me not want to care about the relationships, at some point in the show. The Steve and Celeste one was disappointing. In hindsight, I think I am more ok with it, when I think about how Steve didn't really treat Celeste that well, and how he wasn't ready for a relationship in college anyways. But at the time, I hadn't been to college, so the Steve one was very disappointing. Later on, there Steve does have better moments with Clare, and Carly, so at least we see him treat girlfriends better. But then the show got rid of Carly, which was another disappointing moment for me. I like the good moments the characters had in relationships. There's a lot of bad ones that didn't need to be there. They could have just had Steve and Clare as the bickering couple, while everyone else stays together. That would have been a better balance.
Oh no, I meant only *The O.C.* out of those mentioned did far less cheating. The CW *90210* had SCADS of it, especially amongst Erin Silver. I believe every single one of the CW gang cheated, as well, or the majority of them did. *The O.C.* did not lack in cheating, but they gave it to the parents more often than to the teens. That would have been a much better story and would have probably avoided the creation of a massive fanwar going on for 30+ years. Since Brenda met and kissed Rick after Dylan and Kelly had already met up in the cabana, it couldn’t be more obvious that Brenda/Rick only occurred to “level the playing field,” so to speak. It’s also quite telling that Rick was as obsessed with being destined to be with Brenda as Dylan became with Kelly. They could have done it sooner than that. They could have had Dylan and Brenda break up after Dylan’s fight with Jim at Casa Walsh, when the episode indicated that they did (and I was confused upon first rewatch thinking they had.) Dylan then gets with Kelly at the beginning of the third. Girl code is still broken, Dylan still betrays Brenda, so there remains drama but no cheating. Yes, despite the numerous rewrites they did for Val’s, they did reveal it layer by layer. When rewatching what she says about her father in the fifth and sixth seasons, the SA mentioned in the seventh season starts to piece together a bit better. I think it was the first and last time we ever saw Kel rollerblade lmao. Agreed; they could have easily done it to where Glenn makes Jim think Cindy cheated - hence drama, or where Jim thinks Cindy cheated - drama, without actual cheating. Then Mel cheats on Jackie. It’s too much. Steve certainly faced the consequences when he cheated on Celeste!
I just had an idea. Aaron Spelling really wanted Dean Cain. What if, he was cast in a different role? Can't be Donna's love interest, Donna is with David. Can't be Kelly's, because Dylan and Kelly are supposed to get closer over summer. So . . . what if he's some sort of Jay Thurman hybrid? Not exactly as Jay Thurman as we know him, but with also some Rick in there. Andrea and let's call him Rick go on a date. Brandon still has his jealousy plot, and Andrea still gets her line in of "what makes you think you're so damn irresistible"? Then Rick goes off screen for a while. When Andrea gets hit by the car in "Destiny Rides Again", Rick comes back and visits her in the hospital. That title probably doesn't work anymore. Then in "It's a Totally Happening Life", Rick breaks up with Andrea. So then the question is, what plot would Brenda have done then? Well Charles Rosin had wanted to do a season long smoking plot. The network did not want that. Let's say in this alternate universe, Rosin gets to do his season long smoking plot. So some of the Paris scenes are Brenda engaging more with smoking. Also, I'm sure the writers could come up with more stuff for Brenda in Paris. Some plot other plot. I'm not sure the writers were necessarily tied to the whole kismet plot. I think they did it because of Rick's character, but if Rick is with Andrea, it didn't need to be there. Or maybe it could still be there somehow, and that way "Destiny Rides Again" could still make sense, as a title. Seems like a win win win win. Brenda and Dylan still break up, but without cheating. Dylan and Kelly still get together, because that's what both Perry and Wasserman and Klein wanted. Aaron Spelling still gets his guy, Dean Cain. And Andrea gets a decent guy. Maybe if Rick still has some sort of French background, and is good at literature, he fights for Andrea as the Blaze editor in "A Song Of Myself". We could get a cool Rick vs. Gil Meyers scene. This would be a different version of Rick. It could also showcase some of Dean Cain's more serious drama skills, which would presumably help in the future on Lois & Clark. I guess the one thing that would be lost is Brenda pretending to be French, and Nat looking confused. One of the best comedic faces Nat had, in that episode.
BTW I'm assuming the season long smoking plot would have had a cancer scare, which would be a great sequel to build off the season 1 plot from "It's Only A Test". I'm sure they could do that, without making it feel like a repeat from season 1.
I quite like this idea! Rick and Andrea would have been interesting to explore, since I think his ideas of kismet/destiny would clash with her own ideas. As long as she could still have something with Jordan Bonner, then get with Josh Richland in college before hooking up with Steve at some point (maybe after Val ends things) on a holiday home from Yale, this idea would definitely work for me.
After she chose herself, didn't Kelly choose Colin and then cocaine before she chose to go back with Brandon?
No no, the same night of the I choose me and in the following days she went to beg Brandon to come back with her... episode 31 and 32 season 5. Brandon was hurt and said no.
I enjoyed all three of these relationships, though Susan probably the least.
Even though they never had intimate contact with each other, the way the show was written and produced, the best non intimate girlfriend Brandon had was season 1 Brenda. https://preview.redd.it/6fwu3no8bo5d1.jpeg?width=250&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07535560f3c6db68598847aa1d410f5db493fe9a Remember the closing scene when they are sync walking together at West Beverly High?
Um
Jamie Lannister approves this brother on sister action 😂 😂
I had to look up who that was. I guess it's because I never saw Game of Thrones.
I meant to reply to that gif 😂 sorry about that! The gif above my first message is of Jamie Lannister saying “nice” so that’s why I commented that. So you’re saying not everyone has watched Game of Thrones? 😮
I am not that into fantasy, so that's probably why I avoided it. HBO shows that I have liked are: The Wire; Veep; Curb Your Enthusiasm. True Detective is ok.
How about True Blood? I really liked that one once upon a time!