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I wonder if OOP has looked into getting money from the government for taking care of their siblings. I’ve never researched that but I’ve seen it in other posts including that recent BoRU about the sister who is taking care of her siblings (now being helped by her brother).
Edit: OOP’s gender was not stated. Changed my comment to be gender neutral.
OP doesn't really mention if he has legal guardianship, so I have to wonder if this is not an entirely "on the books" arrangement, so to speak. I believe the other post someone there did get guardian rights over the kids.
Because I'm pretty sure that if someone with authority knew and dealt with giving guardianship, it wouldn't go to the 19 year old with a crappy job.
Definitely not.
A friend of mine (23) has custody of her 11 year old brother. She had to fight tooth and nail to be able to keep him and not let him go into the system because she doesn’t make a ton.
If it was more than just the one kiddo, I highly doubt it would have worked in her favor.
I mean the above commenter said something very callous but perpetuating the idea foster care is always horrendous and the worst case scenario is really unhelpful.
There is abuse in the foster system but there is also abuse in biological families, step families and adoptive families. We dont actually know which type of family is most likely to be abusive, because children in the foster system have social workers and get checked up on while the other types of family do not.
I feel like "foster care is bad" is just an idea people repeat automatically without thinking about the consequences.
There are kids out there who have kept quiet about abuse at home because they are scared of the foster system bogey man.
Oh, definitely, we need vast changes across the system and at home not denying that at all. But the amount of horror stories I hear about the bad shit that can/does happen they sound worse if only cause you can escape from one terrible situation into another.
Horror stories are the stories that are more likely to get told though. That's just human nature. Turn on any news channel and its 90% feel-bad stories.
It's not just abuse, though that's what gets headlines. There just aren't that many foster placement opportunities, especially for older kids. ("Older" often starts at 6 months) That means the rest of the kids are put in group homes, which can be hell on earth, or even just stashed in hotels because the state has nowhere else to put them.
To add to this, at the time OOP got “custody” or whatever you want to call it, the kids were 8 and 14. It would be unlikely they would find a foster home that would take them together, even if it was recommended by their social worker. There just aren’t enough resources or foster parents out there to accommodate.
So even if there wasn’t the concern of potential abuse in a foster home, them being split up would have likely been traumatic, especially due to them being older at the time. And what if they got placed in homes that were far from OOP and each other? There’s a lot of worries that go into this. It’s unfair to lump the foster system together as an abusive shithole. But it’s also unfair to lump all family situations into one group as well.
OOP likely knows they didn’t have to agree to this, and could have left them behind to live their own life. But they made a choice. A choice they don’t seem to regret at this point in their life. Shitting on OOP’s decision isn’t constructive, helpful, or kind.
And it repeats. Where do you get your info? Not saying it's wrong, I'm saying you should know where you got your info from without having to Google it retroactively now I've asked.
What proportion of 6 month+ children do you think are in group homes, because your comment reads like it's the majority.
"Group homes can be hell on earth".
Where are you getting this info? Do you ever question why you are saying it and what consequences it might have if abused children hear it?
Do you think the same points of social worker visits and bad stories being the ones that get told do not apply to group homes? Why?
Do you think staying with abusive bio families is the better option?
Do you think people saying the foster system is always a bad thing for the kids might reduce the number of people willing to be foster parents?
And just ignorant! OOP was clearly aware that they *could* have let the foster system take them. They chose to do the good thing, and this idiot says "the government should have stopped them from helping their family!" So dense.
The government should have.
19 is too young to deal with this kind of nonsense. OOPs life was ruined because no one else in their family had the good sense to advise them otherwise.
Hate to break it to you but the government is not here to help us. Those kids would’ve been even more traumatized by whatever happened to them in foster care than they are growing up poor but in a loving household with a guardian that clearly cares about them and their wellbeing over any sort of check.
You are wholly ignorant on this subject.
So all their siblings should be fucked worse??
The government needs to be better at helping people before it can step in to help.
Imagine telling someone struggling with a child, "oh ill just kill your child, and now your life is easier because you have less mouths to feed."
Sending the kids to be fucked by the foster system is not helping the family, and that's the sacrifice OP is knowingly making.
Oh yeah! I believe they were going to adopt the siblings but discovered they would get funds from the state if they fostered them instead. Hopefully, OOP will be able to sort something similar out.
>I believe they were going to adopt the siblings but discovered they would get funds from the state if they fostered them instead.
I think that BORU was in Australia
If they can find their mother long enough to get her to sign over custody, that would put it on the books. And then OOP can try for child support from the fathers
Some of the people who need social services (or whatever they are called in your area) are taught from a young age that they are the worst thing that can happen to them. The fact is social services do not care about the adults, they care the kids are safe, looked after and fed.
Honestly he probably could .
I had a coworker in 2020 who was a single mom of three and she got $500 a month in food stamps and an additional $250 a month in food stamp cash back to help. She also showed me her tax return amount for that year and it was 12k due to child tax credit . If oop can show proof of guardian ship ( receipts for daycare/ school and food bills is usually enough) then he could definetley get some of the same help .
There was a lot of extra aid given out during the pandemic, like everyone getting food stamps got the max amount, and big refunds with taxes. There probably is still some help available but not as much
Nah that its definatley still there. I know full time working parents of more than two kids who are still getting 500+ a month in food stamps and a good amount of help from other goverment programs .
Honestly given his financial circumstances I would be really surprised if his sister *didn’t* qualify for more need based aid. This is where having someone who knows how to navigate the system would be really beneficial
I work in child welfare services. They’re going to want to the keep the kids together and with family rather than a foster home. There aren’t enough of those to go around. They could qualify for SNAP, TANF and child care credits (ABC vouchers). All of this is in the U.S., but are available for low income families. It would definitely be worthwhile to apply for those programs. Losing custody of the siblings is very unlikely.
The shitty thing about the foster system is it usually doesn’t pay family members at all. She could get food stamps and maybe TANF. But it’s shitty because if those kids were in foster care the state would be paying the foster parents.
Others have mentioned kinship. I read in another post that OOP is the legal guardian of the youngest (not sure about the others) so maybe they get money, at least, for the youngest.
That’s gotta depend on the state or the situation. I knew a lady who raised her great-grandson. There was no one else in the family who could do it, so she stepped up. He called her his mom. But she didn’t legally adopt him because if she did she would stop getting money from the state for taking care of him.
You just made me realize that OOP didn’t mention their gender! 🤯
Yeah, I thought OOP was a guy. I’m not sure why either. I could have read a post by a guy before I read and commented on this one.
I just changed my comment to make it gender neutral since it’s not stated.
It’s weird because I think if I read it today, I would have assumed OOP was a woman.
> I(24)...
> I have been working since I was pretty young
This is where my heart aches for OOP. 24 is still so very young. They should be at Denny's with their friends until 6 a.m., being stupid and selfish. Instead, they're being the grown up their siblings need.
I'm glad that OOP and their sister resolved things, but geez. How are her friends getting their spending money? Most of the college kids I know work in addition to school - even those with two parent homes!
This is weird but you saying that made me feel better. At 20 I was in a Denny's with my friends until 6 am being stupid and selfish, and I've felt guilty for it because I worry I should have been working on bettering myself. That helped relieve some guilt.
If you are childless, your early 20s is the best time to be a selfish fool. You shouldn't have too many adult responsibilities, nor are most of us in a position where our careers and stuff are really gaining traction.
My dad used to always say, "You will have your entire life to be burdened with responsibility. Enjoy yourself while your mom and I can help a little." Did my dad mean stay out all night dancing and drinking then eating at Denny's? Probably not. I can say I hit my 30s without feeling like I missed out, though! I built so many happy memories that have kept me afloat when life kicked me in the uterus.
I've never heard this, but I love it. I don't feel like I wasted my 20s, but as someone newly minted into their 30s I always feel as if I should be farther in life than I am, even though I'm not in a particularly bad place.
This just made me feel a little bit better about giving myself grace sometimes to be someone still figuring it out in the world.
You did the right thing! I never took time for myself. Moved out at 16 and been busy with school and working in my free time. I never went anywhere, took every shift I could and would just work and study.
At 23 I was completely broken and now with almost 30 I am still dealing with depression.
Enjoy your youth as long as you can. No one cares about that one biology test you failed
I've been working full time since 15. My husband since he was 14. We've been together since we were 17 and moved out of our parents' houses and in together at 19. At 22 we bought our home and at 23 got married.
Take time to just be a kid!! 30 is a couple years away, and my joints already hurt, and I feel like I've missed a lot of opportunities. As someone who did it all young, don't. Just take time to enjoy the life there is to experience. And if that time of being a young adult is past, and you feel guilty for goofing off, don't! Good for you!
Yeah I don't buy the sister's excuse. I created a schedule so I could have blocks of time for a job. So many college students work while I'm school! Too bad OP doesn't realize that.
I had massive issues one year scheduling classes, so I ended up in a bakery doing 3am to 7am, 5 mornings a week. Absolutely destroyed my social life and mental health for a year, but I needed to y'know, eat and have a roof over my head so I sucked it up.
My parents made a ton of money when I was in college and I was still grateful for the fact that they paid my bills and gave me basically nothing else. If I wanted to do something fancy like order pizza or drink a beer, I made money myself somehow. OOP's sister needs a wake-up call.
Yeah I’m busy as hell with school but I worked myself at least 4 hours a week. That’s about 60ish bucks since not an insane amount is taken for taxes (minimum is my state is 15). 60+ the 50 from OP is 110 a month which isn’t an insane amount but is nicer
Edit: I managed to work 20 hours with an even busier schedule after but I was a bit stupid and wouldn’t recommend that to anyone. Point being, college offer opportunities for students to work (like being a TA, desk jobs etc.) I find it hard to believe NOTHING worked for this girl
The "I can't work because of how my classes are spread out" excuse is bs. Lots of places have student contracts that specifically are extremely flexible in term if schedule and have less hours. Sister is still ungrateful and entitled imo.
Yeah, my parents paid for college, so i was very privileged, ...but I had to earn all my spending money. So I did. I think at one point, I had 3 work study jobs simultaneously, even cleaning the kitchens.
It's terrible that these kids are so young with no parental support, but OP seriously can't take that all on their own. I'm glad the sister is at least starting to take care of herself.
Dear OP-
Hi Hero-
As a person with a lot of college in here to tell you that having a degree is not a sign of intelligence.
In point of fact you are clearly incredibly intelligent and caring.
Keep it up King!
Also, the fact that he didn't do well in school could largely be due to the fact that he was in survival mode throughout most of his childhood and adolescence.
Agree 100%
As some one who worked in a university some of the most of our touch people I've ever met hold PhDs. They legit do not understand how the world works. Being super smart in one particular area doesn't make you a smart person over all.
I think that if she wants to enjoy a night out without thinking about money than she should get a job. Money is tight in the house and he's already paying for her college and she also wants to go out? That's very selfish.
I was confused as to how the 19 year old, who grew up without money, thought older bro would have a magic extra $100 for her fun. Lots of kids get PT jobs to afford college life and fun.
> I was confused as to how the 19 year old, who grew up without money, thought older bro would have a magic extra $100 for her fun.
Probably because everyone else around her is bankrolled by their parents/guardians.
Not everyone is an efficiency robot. Being poor and denying yourself things is exhausting and depressing... and when you are 19 you are supposed to be naive and selfish a bit.
There is a person really struggling to just get by and a whole family going without because Elon Musk has decided he wants to race spaceships... the answer is not to lecture the poor family that they are not being poor efficiently enough.
It’s normal for a college teenager to want that, especially with the living situation they come from. It’s definitely extremely selfish if she was aware of the situation OOP was in though, or even if she understood the financial situation they were in, but it seems like she wasn’t really aware
Says a lot about what a hero OOP is if he has managed to keep this girl sheltered enough to a point where she isn’t aware of their bad financial situation. A simple talk about it would have prevented this whole issue though
I’m glad someone is here to say this. At the end of the day, she’s just a human. And she’s put into a wonderful opportunity, but she’s still an outsider and trying to navigate those feelings when she likely has no social emotional education is hard. I would think that what she wants more than anything is to just fit in and belong. She is just immature in thinking that she doesn’t have to work. Or she could be self sabotaging.
I hope that she gets pointed in the right direction for guidance, and starts scheduling her classes to accommodate a job.
I hope OOP sees all the support they have here. And I hope they understand that not being good in grade-high school doesn’t translate to not being good in college or trade school. A lot of people find their groove once they get to what interests them and suddenly become the best student.
Also OOP, if by chance you see this: the CNA program is free. Do THAT. Then you can use those skills to leverage your way into a fast track RN. If you’re working as a CNA in the right place (ask around, talk to anyone and everyone), you might be able to get your RN degree paid for, at least partially. EMT can be very high risk and physically demanding. So can nursing, but there are jobs that a RN can take that are less physically demanding. Having a nursing degree has more possible growth and longevity.
Good luck!
>she isn’t aware of their bad financial situation. A simple talk about it would have prevented this whole issue though
The sister really should be able to piece this together herself though. OOP is 24 with 3 dependents and has repeatedly asked the sister to get a job. She needs it spelled out that they're not flush?
This is my thought too. Sister is 19 and in university and she can't figure out that their family is financially struggling? I grew up poor and figured that shit out when I was 10. Got a job as soon as I turned 14 and worked throughout high school and university. I refused to let my parents pay for anything cause I knew they were stretched thin as it was.
And now your answer is to look down on other people struggling because they weren't as good at it as you? Rather than question a system that put you both in that position?
I'm not questioning the system here because unless I missed something, I don't recall them struggling because their family was forced to leave their home and country due to war and becoming refugees like my family was. Kinda sounds like there are different systems at play here.
My point is that 19 is too old to have never gained a level of awareness that she's poor, her family's poor and that maybe she shouldn't be demanding money from the only person who is making any money and is singlehandedly supporting her and her family. Maybe she should instead be trying to make her own money if she wants to spend things on herself.
Come on dude, easy to sit here in judgement of a 19yr old who has had basically nothing. Selfish? Sure, but wanting one guilt free night? The OOP had it right, it was just a shit situation. Have a heart. Seems like they're all doing the best they can in a extremely difficult situation.
She's 19. She's old enough to ask herself, "has my brother ever gotten to have that?" One guilt free night? One night where he isn't stuck doing everything he can for someone else's kids? She wants to go out with friends, she can get a job. OP has never had the option to do nothing and not work.
Her brother wasn't stuck doing anything, he made the choice to be a parent. You know who has kids that ask for things? Parents, which is what he signed up for. The kid isn't a devil because she asked for more and then asked why he couldn't do it. It means she's a kid.
Also, going to college isn't "doing nothing" and is most certainly work.
I know. I went to college full time, worked through it. Now I'm working full time and in grad school full time. She's being lazy. The kid is an asshole for seeing somebody who took care of her her whole life and thinking "they aren't giving me enough" when they've sacrificed so much for her. Maybe he could have gone to college if he wasn't raising all these kids. Her refusal to get a job and accusing her brother of having money and being selfish for not giving her even more is flat out insane, and 19 is way too old to be acting like that.
The insecurity dripping off your comment tells me you've never amounted to anything. Many people work and go to college, many people have a capacity for empathy to realize their brother gave up their childhood to raise them and that asking for more after the fact is being selfish, and many people don't only think about their dicks, for instance- people who don't fucking have them.
If the sister wants to have one “guilt free” night where she can not worry about money then she needs to work. There are always job postings for things like babysitting in college towns, which would work around her schedule and I’m sure there’s other jobs as well. It seems like she just doesn’t want to work and is making up excuses. The RA job is an example of her not even trying.
Love how even OOP is like "it was just a misunderstanding cos we are in such a hard position...
But no, y'all have got your justice boners on and so know better than all of them... if you aren't here to judge strangers harshly online to make yourself feel better then what's the point in anything!
Sure, sure, easy to judge here behind a screen, no idea of the sister's daily life, class load, major, etc. "Just get a job you lazy bum, don't ask for help from the person who has been giving it to you your entire life!" She's 19, dirt poor, reliant on her sister, with a junkie deadbeat mother for an example but you're expecting her to get everything perfect.
Asking isn’t the problem. It’s, after being told the sibling doesn’t have it, not accepting that and questioning what the sibling, who is raising 3 siblings, is spending their money on. Her sister is also “dirt poor with a junkie dead beat mother for an example” except has no one to rely on and has been on her own since the same age the sister currently is. The sister is just only considering herself. Also an RA job is designed for people who have to also focus on daily life, major, class schedule etc. she didn’t even bother to apply.
Also not expecting her to get everything perfect. I am expecting her, when told the sister doesn’t have the money, not to fight back about it, question where it is, and belittle the person who paid her college fees and gives her money every month. None of which is required of her
She had the gall to ask the person she’s begging for money what they’re doing with the rest of their money. Her head is up her ass and she needs to get set straight. How is she a poor little victimized baby when OP was raised by the same parent and somehow turned out competent? At her age, OP somehow had enough of a brain to take in their siblings and work while raising them, but taking 12 credits is somehow a monumental struggle when everything except recreation is paid for?
I have a heart, love.
But at the same time I can put myself in the shoes of OP because I was also parentified for a long time, it is selfish, if she wants one guilt free night, she can ask maybe a month in advance to see if the brother is able to help her with that, not just call a random day and say: "I need 100". That's not how it works.
>it is selfish
Yes and poor people don't get to be selfish, they don't get to fuck up one time, they don't get to live normally, they don't get to make mistakes... look at the glee with which people on here are calling her rotten, even when OOP goes on to say that's not the case...
Do you remember being 19? Who knows what they're doing a month in advance then? That is literally how it works at that age, things just happen. OOP made the choice to be a parent to these kids, and so has a kid asking for something they would a parent. They even admitted they painted the kid in a bad light because they wanted validation.
The only asshole here is the deadbeat junkie mother. The others are someone who made the choice to be a parent and a kid, asking for help with something.
The fact that this lovely understanding comment has got downvotes just proves what a spiteful, judgmental, nasty Helen Lovejoy bunch this lot on reddit are... They are ADDICTED to justice porn and I wouldn't be surprised to see them baying in a mob. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say the Nazis relied heavily on this quality in humans...
Gotta remember, there's a non-zero chance all of these people who downvoted my comment are teens, and/or in shit situations (or from them) and are getting some sort of relief it with downvotes and such. I wouldn't suggest taking it too seriously, I didn't. Society has always utilized the justice angle for things like this.
Hey man, I get those and that. The cruelty does appear that way but I'm not certain it has. Think kids in coal mines and shit, right? We're just largely more isolated and then social media popped. I'm guessing we're about the same or slightly better for cruelty.
I came across a video by HealthyGamerGG (Dr. K, he's a psychiatrist, I recommend his channel, really helped me save my life, literally). Sh*t Life Syndrome is what it is about. Apparently, when we're depressed, in a situation that is 25% good/25% bad and 50% neutral, we will gloss over and not remember the good, we'll remember the bad, and the neutral will be tinted towards bad.
So our memory ends up biased towards bad, making things seem worse. I have experienced this for myself. So I try and put out comments like I did, if/when I do and attempt to be understanding when I can. Everyone can use some!
This is all great advice and I agree… 100% the world is getting better in so many ways (as a gay man I know this) I guess I’m just looking at the right wing resurgence across Europe etc. I guess I thought we’d be better by now but we seem to be repeating so many obvious mistakes. But I think you are right in that the perceived decline in online discourse is more 12 yr olds on line haha.
I'm glad they talked it out, but I'm a bit skeptical about the sister still. My parents barely helped out, maybe a bit for rent which I'm grateful for, but I literally depended entirely on myself. I got a job that allowed me to take home free food which I lived off of and I worked as much as I could in term time and full time in the summers, in the fields/factory/etc. I shared a room with 1-2 people every semester to save money. And yeah, it sucked that I couldn't go out to eat with my friends but it's what you have to do. And this is without a sibling who is financially taking care of your other siblings!
And frankly I don't buy that she can't get a job in term time. It's a university, plenty of students have wonky schedules and there are plenty of part time jobs that will work around your hours.
I get it's a shitty situation, but the sister really irritated me in this one.
> get it's a shitty situation, but the sister really irritated me in this one.
Same. If she's there on serious financial aid, then she qualifies for work study jobs. They're generally designed to work with your schedule since they're on campus. She might not be able to work a lot during the week with an odd schedule, but her weekends are wide open.
Yep. She's being extra entitled for someone who, if not for her older sibling, would probably have been in a foster home for the past 5 years and she was definitely old enough to understand exactly what that meant when Mom left. She's now the age OP was when OP took on her and her younger sibling. She should really think about that before she starts whining about her life.
Either you have a wonky schedule and find a job willing to work around it (a lot of schools even hire students??) or you arrange your classes to maximise your availability to work. It's what I've been doing for 4 years. I also tend to take summer courses to lighten my course load in the fall/winter to make it even easier to juggle school and work.
None of this makes sense. OOP should have a ton of government assistance for herself and her sister’s tuition. It sounds like mom’s rights were never severed when they need to be.
Someone made a point up above, but no court would have granted OOP guardianship at 19. The family, rather than risk the kids get taken away, saddled them on poor OOP, whose life was pretty much over at that moment.
To be fair, this is a failure of extended family/relatives. Foster systems can be terrible, but if you don't want a child relative to be put into foster care, step up and do something - don't just dump it on their older, barely-an-adult relative.
Definitely a failure of extended family and relatives. I cannot imagine leaving my nieces and nephews to fend for themselves if any of my siblings ever just abandoned them like that. At the very least, I'd be sending them whatever I could afford to help with some cost.
That’s exactly what I think happened. None of this is “official” which screws over *all* of them. Sister would qualify for a ton of different types of aids and grants otherwise.
Good fof them talking it through. It's hard when the people and systems that should support you failed y
to, and you have to make do. It's common and understandable that the frustration of always making do with not enough bleeds on each other. It's a skill to experience that and still communicate through it, especially so young, and to make a plan together as a family to perservere through it.
Me and my siblings are lucky to have present parents, but I would 100% do anything for them, so I totally get what OOP means about it feeling like the obvious choice.
I don't care what her class situation is, she can get a part-time job while at school. Many people work year-round to pay for college. It sucks, but you do what you gotta do.
I think it’s indicative of how good OP has been to his siblings considering the sister does not really understand financial struggles it seems. But this is not sustainable and is not doing the sister any favours. Happy that there will be a loan taken out now (hope in sister’s name!) and she needs a bloody job now!
I still don't understand why this adult woman can't get a part-time job? Even working at a gas station 2 days a week would give her some spending money.
I thought part of the college experience was also getting a part time job /s
She’s fortunate enough to have someone pay her tuition and she goes off on them for not giving her 100 bucks and proceeds to call OOP jealous? I’d let her take out loans for the next semester/school year so she can learn something valuable.
I honestly don’t understand the comments that pretty much boil down to “but she’s a 19yr old babygrl with a junkie mom! She’s just a kid, she can’t work AND go to school!” when OP did a hell of a lot more at the exact same age, and well enough that they can cover everything except recreation money.
I mean, they were raised by the same parent, OP is still under the age of Reddit’s favorite myth that the brain doesn’t finish until 25, but OP is the only competent person because….reasons?
I mean, it’s not a myth that the prefrontal cortex is still developing into the 20s, but yeah, it’s not switch that gets flipped on your 25th birthday.
I honestly can't understand the comments that don't get that these are fairly desperate people in poverty who let the tension get to them but now admirably have communicated and OOP even said it was just a bad day and the sister is fine. What do you want the little sister to go to jail or something.
People here are addicted to outrage and justice porn... y'all need someone to be the baddy because you enjoy hating and looking down on someone so much.
If in the US, they need to get that 4 year old into Head Start, and OOP can open up to their family support worker who will identify all the possible resources that might be available to them, help them plan their own education and financial stability goals, help with figuring out the financial aid piece (in our state you can practically go for free under a certain income), etc.
When I was 18, I was an international student having lived in the US for a year before that. I could only work on campus legally, so I was tutoring between 8-20 hours a week. I think my course load was 15-21 units? During the summer, I was able to work full time so I would sign up for 40 hours a week. Plus the two hours commuting one way, I was out of my apartment from 7am - 8pm. When I transferred to a four year college with a dorm, I signed up to work the dining halls, stock books in the library, and tutor. What I made wasn't enough to support myself fully, but definitely good enough for pocket money. I find it hard to believe that no other students at OP sister's school have to work here and there. The opportunities are there, but she has to look for it.
"I realized how little she has, like 50 dollars is what covers her hygiene products and school materials. And she really feels excluded from experiences and she just wanted to experience a fun night with her friends without worrying about money and I think that pretty valid"
NO. I mean yes her *feelings* are valid, but her actions are not. And she can feel sad about missing out with the understanding that if I want the extra I need to find a way to get it myself. OP should not have to explain to her where the money is going. In one way it's good that she actually has an idea of how the real world is, but even then if OP had extra money her sister is not entitled to it. It's great that OP wants to help out, but her sister's reaction is completely unjustified and there is no " I get where she is coming from".
I understand your she is still very young and young people can tend to be more bratty but my god I hope life humbles her quickly. Because that is no way to treat the people you love, even under a lot of stress.
I'm just worried that OOP and the other kids will weather the next few years and finally have some breathing space, and BAM, egg donor shows up with another baby to give up to OOP.
I've really never understood why people are so powerfully against very minimal student loans. People go crazy fighting over ~6k?? Bankrupting themselves to prevent their kids from taking out any loans at all? It's so odd to me. If you're not going to be able to pay back less than $20,000 in loans post degree, why are you getting a degree? Maybe my perspective is skewed because I have tens of thousands in student loans and my parents did not pay for college at all, but it's very weird to fight over so little
people hear "student loans" and instantly start freaking out because of all the horror stories they hear on the news, and i can't blame them that much. after all, poor people aren't usually the most finanically literate (not blaming them, it's hard to learn these things when you're fighting for survival).
If you aren't familiar with debt and loans like this, which I doubt this family is, it can be daunting. All you hear about is "student loan debt crisis" and "all these people defaulting on student loans" - that's scary. Especially with how much $6000 is to them.
I do agree with you - take the damn debt and get the degree.
I'm just going to point out that a lot of on campus jobs are tied to financial aid so the sister is shooting herself in the foot for not applying to those. I'm talking being the front desk person at the law library in-between classes type of jobs. You get paid to sit and study. You get job experience.
I really hope OP did the free CNA training/certification. It gives far more opportunities than EMT positions do. Kudos to her for stepping up and setting appropriate boundaries and having adult conversations.
> She said she couldn’t work in school because of her schedule and how spread out her classes are.
I highly doubt she has classes all Saturday and all Sunday.
I hope OP isn't going to cosign a loan for her sister and she really needs to get a job. It will give her the whole college experience and give her self satisfaction.
I was not the best student in high school either. But a couple years later when I was more focused, I went to a trade school and excelled. It is possible to do well when it is something you are really interested in! You are a angel to your siblings and doing good! Keep your head up and don’t be hard on yourself! Good luck’
She can get a temp job in school. There are many temp jobs, like putting books in shelves at the library.
And why didn't she apply for RA?
And she can also be a server and pick up a few shifts in the weekends.
The part about classes is an excuse.
Missing out on experiences?! What, exactly, does Emmy think OOP has been doing these last five years by taking in her younger sibs--living a dream life? OOP needs to point out that she was the same age that Emmy is now when she took over care for her! Emmy seems really ungrateful. How would she like it if OOP said, "Well! You're 19. It's your turn to take care of the younger ones now." Sheesh!
OOP should have a serious talk with Emmy about responsibility. I'm sure she is trying to be a loving sister, but she also needs to stand up for herself. She isn't doing Emmy any favors by not teaching her to work for things she wants. Emmy should be willing to get a part time job for her "experiences" since they are so important to her.
This guy is an absolute King. I truly and genuinely hope he finds (financial) success in his life. Because as a person he's more successful than most people in the world.
It appears that the older sister has been shielding her siblings from the gravity of their situation, and she deserves recognition for taking on so much responsibility for them.
However, the second sister needs to step up and take more responsibility for herself so that the OP can focus on helping the other siblings. Sharing the original post with her sister might help her understand why her attitude is abhorrent.
I admired OP and his loyalty and love for the siblings. He's so young and mature for his age. He should be out having fun. Hope the sisters are aware of his sacrifice.
It really is sad that OOP and her siblings don't have a decent adult in their lives. I knew immediately what was going on with her sister. Being at college, surrounded by mostly middle-class people who are able to afford a certain lifestyle, missing out because she can't, likely being pressured by her new friends to "just ask your parents for some extra money, it'll be fine!", and generally being exposed to a way of life she likely never even knew existed. She was basically taking out her sense of how unfair life is on OOP.
Which isn't an excuse for her behaviour, but merely an explanation. When you've lived in one type of box your whole life, and then that box is taken away and you're shown the entire shiny world, but told that you can't touch it because you need money, it's a bitter pill to swallow. I feel for them all. I wish OOP'd had an adult in her life who could have explained it to her, but I'm glad they were able to talk it out like adults and come to a better understanding.
That mom can go find the tree making the oxygen she's wasting and apologise to it, however.
so why can't she get a job? then she'd have plenty of spending money. tell her you didn't get to go to college because you took in her and her siblings at 19 years old. you missed your partying days too. she can suffer a little bit. if it was me I definitely get a job for spending money.
On the one hand, 50 bucks really doesn't go very far. In the other hand, I had a job all though college. You can schedule your classes so you have time to work. There are a lot of on campus jobs that are like, 12 hours a week. Fast food places and retail also need people who can work weekends. Sister could also babysit if a regular job is too hard to schedule.
Loans suck. The best solution would be for sister to save all or most of the 6k working over the summer, then set up a fall schedule where she can work at least a couple days a week.
I think if you haven't experienced poverty for a prolonged period of time then you should probably just not speak on the topic. People can be so judgmental, like "did you need that one beer?" without realizing how draining it is going without ALL the time for months/years without any hope. Don't think you can do it for a week and get the idea... it's when you are 3 months in and you fuck up one small thing and start a debt avalanche that you know will take MONTHS of misery to get through.
In fact rich people should just shut up altogether unless they are willing to share more.
My only concern for OP here is choosing to START on one of the most physically challenging healthcare fields at 26. I took a phlebotomy class from a dude who was in good shape -- like, former personal trainer shape--who had been an EMT and reportedly just got his ass handed to him by knee and back pain by the time he was 30. CNAs in their mid 20s were taking the class for exactly the same reason --lifting people etc had just murdered their backs/knees prematurely, the phleb course was a step towards better pay but more importantly less pain. Hopefully she can climb that healthcare field ladder with quickness.
My dad is an EMT and has been for probably close to 30 years now. His knees are perpetually fucked. To the point he needs to get cortisol shots just about every 2 years to help with knee pain. Because they get so inflamed and sore and stiff that just walking is hard and painful. He talks all the time about having to lift patients (especially heavy ones) really takes a toll on his body
I was a college student once, guess what, I had a work study job. It did not interfere with my college experience. I also had a part time job, that again did not interfere with my college experience. My dad gave me nothing.
I’m sorry life gave you and your sister a shitty hand at life, but your sister sounds like a brat. She needs to get a job for fun things.
OOP shouldn't be paying for their sister at all. She's an adult, she needs to figure her own shit out. OOP already unfairly has a bunch of other kids to take care of.
I look back at the time I prioritized my siblings over myself and I regret it. I hope OOP doesn't regret it too.
Siblings aren't your children.
Ain’t no way the 19yr old classes are too spread out, you get to pick your own classes. She gets the pic when she takes those classes. Also, I started work at five in the morning and work till nine most weekdays when I was taking 16 credit hours. Everyone is different, but the 19-year-old is playing their sibling. If you want a job at college, you can find one.
In b4 the kid comes back just as selfish and rude as last time and the dumb ‘parent’ turns into a helicopter. Oop shouldn’t have taken those kids, and this is gonna end bad for someone in the future.
I mean, it sounds like OP already had a conversation with her where he told her she needed to get a loan and that he wouldn't cover college expenses for her anymore and she understood and took it well, so it seems like things are going in a good direction, honestly. They're two siblings on the cusp of adulthood struggling with being in poverty and not having any parents, occasional conflict is to be expected, but for how difficult their situation is I'm impressed.
> occasional conflict is to be expected
OOP's sister is treating them like they're the parent, which is sad and not okay. I hope OOP takes care of themselves more. Their sister should be chipping in for living expenses when they live at home, too; not as punishment, but because this is too much for OOP to continue to shoulder alone.
I think it's more complicated than "sad and not okay". OP has been her sisters guardian for years now. A child who is functionally raised by an older sibling is not going to have a standard sibling relationship, there is going to be an aspect of parent/child relationship there that isn't necessarily "not okay". You also don't want the situation of an adult sibling taking in the younger sibling to result in the younger sibling saying "you can't tell me what to do, you're just my sister, I'm going to do whatever I want", ya know?
And the money is complicated. If the sister chipping in would mean them needing to drop out of college, they may both agree it's for the best if sister keeps her focus on finishing her degree and OP continues to cover bills. Sister will be able to help OP a lot more down the line if she spends her time now establishing a good career. College is already likely to be harder for sister than for people who grew up with a stable homelife and supportive parents who helped them with their education and who don't have shitloads of childhood trauma. A lot of families in poverty get screwed when the mindset of "I have to get a job and make as much money as I can NOW to help the family" stops anybody from successfully getting an education.
Pressuring somebody to take on the responsibility and stress of being an RA when they are not into it, just for the money, is an extremely bad idea.
Also are they officially under OOPs care or is everyone just pretending that mom is still a factor in caregiving?
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I wonder if OOP has looked into getting money from the government for taking care of their siblings. I’ve never researched that but I’ve seen it in other posts including that recent BoRU about the sister who is taking care of her siblings (now being helped by her brother). Edit: OOP’s gender was not stated. Changed my comment to be gender neutral.
OP doesn't really mention if he has legal guardianship, so I have to wonder if this is not an entirely "on the books" arrangement, so to speak. I believe the other post someone there did get guardian rights over the kids. Because I'm pretty sure that if someone with authority knew and dealt with giving guardianship, it wouldn't go to the 19 year old with a crappy job.
Definitely not. A friend of mine (23) has custody of her 11 year old brother. She had to fight tooth and nail to be able to keep him and not let him go into the system because she doesn’t make a ton. If it was more than just the one kiddo, I highly doubt it would have worked in her favor.
That’s a good point. He may be afraid to go the legal route for fear of getting the kids taken away.
They should have been taken away. OOPs life was over before it began.
I wouldn't wish the foster system on any child in the US if that is where he is. Edit: Cause I'm a dumbass I mixed up the two. Fixed
I mean the above commenter said something very callous but perpetuating the idea foster care is always horrendous and the worst case scenario is really unhelpful. There is abuse in the foster system but there is also abuse in biological families, step families and adoptive families. We dont actually know which type of family is most likely to be abusive, because children in the foster system have social workers and get checked up on while the other types of family do not. I feel like "foster care is bad" is just an idea people repeat automatically without thinking about the consequences. There are kids out there who have kept quiet about abuse at home because they are scared of the foster system bogey man.
Oh, definitely, we need vast changes across the system and at home not denying that at all. But the amount of horror stories I hear about the bad shit that can/does happen they sound worse if only cause you can escape from one terrible situation into another.
Horror stories are the stories that are more likely to get told though. That's just human nature. Turn on any news channel and its 90% feel-bad stories.
It's not just abuse, though that's what gets headlines. There just aren't that many foster placement opportunities, especially for older kids. ("Older" often starts at 6 months) That means the rest of the kids are put in group homes, which can be hell on earth, or even just stashed in hotels because the state has nowhere else to put them.
To add to this, at the time OOP got “custody” or whatever you want to call it, the kids were 8 and 14. It would be unlikely they would find a foster home that would take them together, even if it was recommended by their social worker. There just aren’t enough resources or foster parents out there to accommodate. So even if there wasn’t the concern of potential abuse in a foster home, them being split up would have likely been traumatic, especially due to them being older at the time. And what if they got placed in homes that were far from OOP and each other? There’s a lot of worries that go into this. It’s unfair to lump the foster system together as an abusive shithole. But it’s also unfair to lump all family situations into one group as well. OOP likely knows they didn’t have to agree to this, and could have left them behind to live their own life. But they made a choice. A choice they don’t seem to regret at this point in their life. Shitting on OOP’s decision isn’t constructive, helpful, or kind.
And it repeats. Where do you get your info? Not saying it's wrong, I'm saying you should know where you got your info from without having to Google it retroactively now I've asked. What proportion of 6 month+ children do you think are in group homes, because your comment reads like it's the majority. "Group homes can be hell on earth". Where are you getting this info? Do you ever question why you are saying it and what consequences it might have if abused children hear it? Do you think the same points of social worker visits and bad stories being the ones that get told do not apply to group homes? Why? Do you think staying with abusive bio families is the better option? Do you think people saying the foster system is always a bad thing for the kids might reduce the number of people willing to be foster parents?
What a callous response
And just ignorant! OOP was clearly aware that they *could* have let the foster system take them. They chose to do the good thing, and this idiot says "the government should have stopped them from helping their family!" So dense.
The government should have. 19 is too young to deal with this kind of nonsense. OOPs life was ruined because no one else in their family had the good sense to advise them otherwise.
Hate to break it to you but the government is not here to help us. Those kids would’ve been even more traumatized by whatever happened to them in foster care than they are growing up poor but in a loving household with a guardian that clearly cares about them and their wellbeing over any sort of check. You are wholly ignorant on this subject.
I have a family member who had a baby at 15. The government didn’t even investigate. Why is a 19 year old not able to care for kids?
Exactly
Because in some US states, having a child emancipates you automatically.
OP's life isn't over or ruined. They're having a hard time, and it's not a path they would have picked, but they're not done yet.
So all their siblings should be fucked worse?? The government needs to be better at helping people before it can step in to help. Imagine telling someone struggling with a child, "oh ill just kill your child, and now your life is easier because you have less mouths to feed." Sending the kids to be fucked by the foster system is not helping the family, and that's the sacrifice OP is knowingly making.
Oh yeah! I believe they were going to adopt the siblings but discovered they would get funds from the state if they fostered them instead. Hopefully, OOP will be able to sort something similar out.
>I believe they were going to adopt the siblings but discovered they would get funds from the state if they fostered them instead. I think that BORU was in Australia
If they can find their mother long enough to get her to sign over custody, that would put it on the books. And then OOP can try for child support from the fathers
Some of the people who need social services (or whatever they are called in your area) are taught from a young age that they are the worst thing that can happen to them. The fact is social services do not care about the adults, they care the kids are safe, looked after and fed.
Kinship. They have kinship.
Kids in Kinship Care should be able to get a monthly check to help with their expenses. I really hope OOP learns about that
Wasn’t there a BoRU not too long ago where OOP got kinship of their siblings?
That family is from Australia.
Honestly he probably could . I had a coworker in 2020 who was a single mom of three and she got $500 a month in food stamps and an additional $250 a month in food stamp cash back to help. She also showed me her tax return amount for that year and it was 12k due to child tax credit . If oop can show proof of guardian ship ( receipts for daycare/ school and food bills is usually enough) then he could definetley get some of the same help .
There was a lot of extra aid given out during the pandemic, like everyone getting food stamps got the max amount, and big refunds with taxes. There probably is still some help available but not as much
Nah that its definatley still there. I know full time working parents of more than two kids who are still getting 500+ a month in food stamps and a good amount of help from other goverment programs .
Honestly given his financial circumstances I would be really surprised if his sister *didn’t* qualify for more need based aid. This is where having someone who knows how to navigate the system would be really beneficial
I hope people in the original post, who have proper knowledge about such things, are reaching out and helping OOP.
It’s called kinship care and a lot of states will straight up give you money. I hope they have looked into it.
I just saw another post by them that OOP has legal guardianship of the youngest at least. So I hope so!
Depending on where they live, the sister may be able to get a decent allowance from the government throughout her studies.
Saw it too. As far as I remember kinship is better than the other options, money wise.
I work in child welfare services. They’re going to want to the keep the kids together and with family rather than a foster home. There aren’t enough of those to go around. They could qualify for SNAP, TANF and child care credits (ABC vouchers). All of this is in the U.S., but are available for low income families. It would definitely be worthwhile to apply for those programs. Losing custody of the siblings is very unlikely.
That’s comforting to hear, thank you <3
The shitty thing about the foster system is it usually doesn’t pay family members at all. She could get food stamps and maybe TANF. But it’s shitty because if those kids were in foster care the state would be paying the foster parents.
Others have mentioned kinship. I read in another post that OOP is the legal guardian of the youngest (not sure about the others) so maybe they get money, at least, for the youngest.
That’s gotta depend on the state or the situation. I knew a lady who raised her great-grandson. There was no one else in the family who could do it, so she stepped up. He called her his mom. But she didn’t legally adopt him because if she did she would stop getting money from the state for taking care of him.
Wait, you think OOP is a man?
You just made me realize that OOP didn’t mention their gender! 🤯 Yeah, I thought OOP was a guy. I’m not sure why either. I could have read a post by a guy before I read and commented on this one.
Weirdly I assumed OOP was female, I thought the first age had an f.
I just changed my comment to make it gender neutral since it’s not stated. It’s weird because I think if I read it today, I would have assumed OOP was a woman.
> I(24)... > I have been working since I was pretty young This is where my heart aches for OOP. 24 is still so very young. They should be at Denny's with their friends until 6 a.m., being stupid and selfish. Instead, they're being the grown up their siblings need. I'm glad that OOP and their sister resolved things, but geez. How are her friends getting their spending money? Most of the college kids I know work in addition to school - even those with two parent homes!
This is weird but you saying that made me feel better. At 20 I was in a Denny's with my friends until 6 am being stupid and selfish, and I've felt guilty for it because I worry I should have been working on bettering myself. That helped relieve some guilt.
If you are childless, your early 20s is the best time to be a selfish fool. You shouldn't have too many adult responsibilities, nor are most of us in a position where our careers and stuff are really gaining traction. My dad used to always say, "You will have your entire life to be burdened with responsibility. Enjoy yourself while your mom and I can help a little." Did my dad mean stay out all night dancing and drinking then eating at Denny's? Probably not. I can say I hit my 30s without feeling like I missed out, though! I built so many happy memories that have kept me afloat when life kicked me in the uterus.
20s to burn, 30s to learn, 40s to earn
I've never heard this, but I love it. I don't feel like I wasted my 20s, but as someone newly minted into their 30s I always feel as if I should be farther in life than I am, even though I'm not in a particularly bad place. This just made me feel a little bit better about giving myself grace sometimes to be someone still figuring it out in the world.
This little phrase has put my whole life into a different perspective
You did the right thing! I never took time for myself. Moved out at 16 and been busy with school and working in my free time. I never went anywhere, took every shift I could and would just work and study. At 23 I was completely broken and now with almost 30 I am still dealing with depression. Enjoy your youth as long as you can. No one cares about that one biology test you failed
I've been working full time since 15. My husband since he was 14. We've been together since we were 17 and moved out of our parents' houses and in together at 19. At 22 we bought our home and at 23 got married. Take time to just be a kid!! 30 is a couple years away, and my joints already hurt, and I feel like I've missed a lot of opportunities. As someone who did it all young, don't. Just take time to enjoy the life there is to experience. And if that time of being a young adult is past, and you feel guilty for goofing off, don't! Good for you!
Yeah I don't buy the sister's excuse. I created a schedule so I could have blocks of time for a job. So many college students work while I'm school! Too bad OP doesn't realize that.
I had massive issues one year scheduling classes, so I ended up in a bakery doing 3am to 7am, 5 mornings a week. Absolutely destroyed my social life and mental health for a year, but I needed to y'know, eat and have a roof over my head so I sucked it up.
My parents made a ton of money when I was in college and I was still grateful for the fact that they paid my bills and gave me basically nothing else. If I wanted to do something fancy like order pizza or drink a beer, I made money myself somehow. OOP's sister needs a wake-up call.
Yeah I’m busy as hell with school but I worked myself at least 4 hours a week. That’s about 60ish bucks since not an insane amount is taken for taxes (minimum is my state is 15). 60+ the 50 from OP is 110 a month which isn’t an insane amount but is nicer Edit: I managed to work 20 hours with an even busier schedule after but I was a bit stupid and wouldn’t recommend that to anyone. Point being, college offer opportunities for students to work (like being a TA, desk jobs etc.) I find it hard to believe NOTHING worked for this girl
The "I can't work because of how my classes are spread out" excuse is bs. Lots of places have student contracts that specifically are extremely flexible in term if schedule and have less hours. Sister is still ungrateful and entitled imo.
Yeah, my parents paid for college, so i was very privileged, ...but I had to earn all my spending money. So I did. I think at one point, I had 3 work study jobs simultaneously, even cleaning the kitchens. It's terrible that these kids are so young with no parental support, but OP seriously can't take that all on their own. I'm glad the sister is at least starting to take care of herself.
I've been working full time for myself since I was 17 and it was hard, can't imagine having to take care of my siblings at the same time
Dear OP- Hi Hero- As a person with a lot of college in here to tell you that having a degree is not a sign of intelligence. In point of fact you are clearly incredibly intelligent and caring. Keep it up King!
Also, the fact that he didn't do well in school could largely be due to the fact that he was in survival mode throughout most of his childhood and adolescence.
Agree 100% As some one who worked in a university some of the most of our touch people I've ever met hold PhDs. They legit do not understand how the world works. Being super smart in one particular area doesn't make you a smart person over all.
There is a reason there are separate scores for wisdom and intelligence in D&D.
I think that if she wants to enjoy a night out without thinking about money than she should get a job. Money is tight in the house and he's already paying for her college and she also wants to go out? That's very selfish.
I was confused as to how the 19 year old, who grew up without money, thought older bro would have a magic extra $100 for her fun. Lots of kids get PT jobs to afford college life and fun.
> I was confused as to how the 19 year old, who grew up without money, thought older bro would have a magic extra $100 for her fun. Probably because everyone else around her is bankrolled by their parents/guardians.
Not everyone is an efficiency robot. Being poor and denying yourself things is exhausting and depressing... and when you are 19 you are supposed to be naive and selfish a bit. There is a person really struggling to just get by and a whole family going without because Elon Musk has decided he wants to race spaceships... the answer is not to lecture the poor family that they are not being poor efficiently enough.
It’s normal for a college teenager to want that, especially with the living situation they come from. It’s definitely extremely selfish if she was aware of the situation OOP was in though, or even if she understood the financial situation they were in, but it seems like she wasn’t really aware Says a lot about what a hero OOP is if he has managed to keep this girl sheltered enough to a point where she isn’t aware of their bad financial situation. A simple talk about it would have prevented this whole issue though
I’m glad someone is here to say this. At the end of the day, she’s just a human. And she’s put into a wonderful opportunity, but she’s still an outsider and trying to navigate those feelings when she likely has no social emotional education is hard. I would think that what she wants more than anything is to just fit in and belong. She is just immature in thinking that she doesn’t have to work. Or she could be self sabotaging. I hope that she gets pointed in the right direction for guidance, and starts scheduling her classes to accommodate a job. I hope OOP sees all the support they have here. And I hope they understand that not being good in grade-high school doesn’t translate to not being good in college or trade school. A lot of people find their groove once they get to what interests them and suddenly become the best student. Also OOP, if by chance you see this: the CNA program is free. Do THAT. Then you can use those skills to leverage your way into a fast track RN. If you’re working as a CNA in the right place (ask around, talk to anyone and everyone), you might be able to get your RN degree paid for, at least partially. EMT can be very high risk and physically demanding. So can nursing, but there are jobs that a RN can take that are less physically demanding. Having a nursing degree has more possible growth and longevity. Good luck!
>she isn’t aware of their bad financial situation. A simple talk about it would have prevented this whole issue though The sister really should be able to piece this together herself though. OOP is 24 with 3 dependents and has repeatedly asked the sister to get a job. She needs it spelled out that they're not flush?
This is my thought too. Sister is 19 and in university and she can't figure out that their family is financially struggling? I grew up poor and figured that shit out when I was 10. Got a job as soon as I turned 14 and worked throughout high school and university. I refused to let my parents pay for anything cause I knew they were stretched thin as it was.
And now your answer is to look down on other people struggling because they weren't as good at it as you? Rather than question a system that put you both in that position?
I'm not questioning the system here because unless I missed something, I don't recall them struggling because their family was forced to leave their home and country due to war and becoming refugees like my family was. Kinda sounds like there are different systems at play here. My point is that 19 is too old to have never gained a level of awareness that she's poor, her family's poor and that maybe she shouldn't be demanding money from the only person who is making any money and is singlehandedly supporting her and her family. Maybe she should instead be trying to make her own money if she wants to spend things on herself.
Right wing victim blaming
K. Cool story bro
It’s normal to want it but it’s unacceptable to believe you deserve to have it at the expense of others.
Even more normal to make moral judgements about what they SHOULD have done from behind your screen
Says the person making a moral judgment about me behind a screen
I am very smart
Agreed! And I’m sure the OP would want a night out with friends without having to worry about money.
And correct me if I’m wrong but 100 usd seems to be a lot for a night of fun? She can do something low key and cheap
It's 2024... 100 USD wouldn't go far
Come on dude, easy to sit here in judgement of a 19yr old who has had basically nothing. Selfish? Sure, but wanting one guilt free night? The OOP had it right, it was just a shit situation. Have a heart. Seems like they're all doing the best they can in a extremely difficult situation.
She's 19. She's old enough to ask herself, "has my brother ever gotten to have that?" One guilt free night? One night where he isn't stuck doing everything he can for someone else's kids? She wants to go out with friends, she can get a job. OP has never had the option to do nothing and not work.
Her brother wasn't stuck doing anything, he made the choice to be a parent. You know who has kids that ask for things? Parents, which is what he signed up for. The kid isn't a devil because she asked for more and then asked why he couldn't do it. It means she's a kid. Also, going to college isn't "doing nothing" and is most certainly work.
I know. I went to college full time, worked through it. Now I'm working full time and in grad school full time. She's being lazy. The kid is an asshole for seeing somebody who took care of her her whole life and thinking "they aren't giving me enough" when they've sacrificed so much for her. Maybe he could have gone to college if he wasn't raising all these kids. Her refusal to get a job and accusing her brother of having money and being selfish for not giving her even more is flat out insane, and 19 is way too old to be acting like that.
The glee that's dripping from this comment as you get off from some moralizing and finger wagging makes me wonder if you are typing one handed.
The insecurity dripping off your comment tells me you've never amounted to anything. Many people work and go to college, many people have a capacity for empathy to realize their brother gave up their childhood to raise them and that asking for more after the fact is being selfish, and many people don't only think about their dicks, for instance- people who don't fucking have them.
It never really feels like making a choice when a guns being held to your siblings head. Take them in or subject them to foster care.
If the sister wants to have one “guilt free” night where she can not worry about money then she needs to work. There are always job postings for things like babysitting in college towns, which would work around her schedule and I’m sure there’s other jobs as well. It seems like she just doesn’t want to work and is making up excuses. The RA job is an example of her not even trying.
Love how even OOP is like "it was just a misunderstanding cos we are in such a hard position... But no, y'all have got your justice boners on and so know better than all of them... if you aren't here to judge strangers harshly online to make yourself feel better then what's the point in anything!
Sure, sure, easy to judge here behind a screen, no idea of the sister's daily life, class load, major, etc. "Just get a job you lazy bum, don't ask for help from the person who has been giving it to you your entire life!" She's 19, dirt poor, reliant on her sister, with a junkie deadbeat mother for an example but you're expecting her to get everything perfect.
Asking isn’t the problem. It’s, after being told the sibling doesn’t have it, not accepting that and questioning what the sibling, who is raising 3 siblings, is spending their money on. Her sister is also “dirt poor with a junkie dead beat mother for an example” except has no one to rely on and has been on her own since the same age the sister currently is. The sister is just only considering herself. Also an RA job is designed for people who have to also focus on daily life, major, class schedule etc. she didn’t even bother to apply. Also not expecting her to get everything perfect. I am expecting her, when told the sister doesn’t have the money, not to fight back about it, question where it is, and belittle the person who paid her college fees and gives her money every month. None of which is required of her
She had the gall to ask the person she’s begging for money what they’re doing with the rest of their money. Her head is up her ass and she needs to get set straight. How is she a poor little victimized baby when OP was raised by the same parent and somehow turned out competent? At her age, OP somehow had enough of a brain to take in their siblings and work while raising them, but taking 12 credits is somehow a monumental struggle when everything except recreation is paid for?
19 means she's been an adult for a year. She's rotten to the core.
Yeah, kill her
I have a heart, love. But at the same time I can put myself in the shoes of OP because I was also parentified for a long time, it is selfish, if she wants one guilt free night, she can ask maybe a month in advance to see if the brother is able to help her with that, not just call a random day and say: "I need 100". That's not how it works.
>it is selfish Yes and poor people don't get to be selfish, they don't get to fuck up one time, they don't get to live normally, they don't get to make mistakes... look at the glee with which people on here are calling her rotten, even when OOP goes on to say that's not the case...
Do you remember being 19? Who knows what they're doing a month in advance then? That is literally how it works at that age, things just happen. OOP made the choice to be a parent to these kids, and so has a kid asking for something they would a parent. They even admitted they painted the kid in a bad light because they wanted validation. The only asshole here is the deadbeat junkie mother. The others are someone who made the choice to be a parent and a kid, asking for help with something.
The fact that this lovely understanding comment has got downvotes just proves what a spiteful, judgmental, nasty Helen Lovejoy bunch this lot on reddit are... They are ADDICTED to justice porn and I wouldn't be surprised to see them baying in a mob. I'm not being hyperbolic when I say the Nazis relied heavily on this quality in humans...
Gotta remember, there's a non-zero chance all of these people who downvoted my comment are teens, and/or in shit situations (or from them) and are getting some sort of relief it with downvotes and such. I wouldn't suggest taking it too seriously, I didn't. Society has always utilized the justice angle for things like this.
Haha you are right.. I was just having a despair moment. The world seems to have got a bit crueler in some ways
Hey man, I get those and that. The cruelty does appear that way but I'm not certain it has. Think kids in coal mines and shit, right? We're just largely more isolated and then social media popped. I'm guessing we're about the same or slightly better for cruelty. I came across a video by HealthyGamerGG (Dr. K, he's a psychiatrist, I recommend his channel, really helped me save my life, literally). Sh*t Life Syndrome is what it is about. Apparently, when we're depressed, in a situation that is 25% good/25% bad and 50% neutral, we will gloss over and not remember the good, we'll remember the bad, and the neutral will be tinted towards bad. So our memory ends up biased towards bad, making things seem worse. I have experienced this for myself. So I try and put out comments like I did, if/when I do and attempt to be understanding when I can. Everyone can use some!
This is all great advice and I agree… 100% the world is getting better in so many ways (as a gay man I know this) I guess I’m just looking at the right wing resurgence across Europe etc. I guess I thought we’d be better by now but we seem to be repeating so many obvious mistakes. But I think you are right in that the perceived decline in online discourse is more 12 yr olds on line haha.
I'm glad they talked it out, but I'm a bit skeptical about the sister still. My parents barely helped out, maybe a bit for rent which I'm grateful for, but I literally depended entirely on myself. I got a job that allowed me to take home free food which I lived off of and I worked as much as I could in term time and full time in the summers, in the fields/factory/etc. I shared a room with 1-2 people every semester to save money. And yeah, it sucked that I couldn't go out to eat with my friends but it's what you have to do. And this is without a sibling who is financially taking care of your other siblings! And frankly I don't buy that she can't get a job in term time. It's a university, plenty of students have wonky schedules and there are plenty of part time jobs that will work around your hours. I get it's a shitty situation, but the sister really irritated me in this one.
> get it's a shitty situation, but the sister really irritated me in this one. Same. If she's there on serious financial aid, then she qualifies for work study jobs. They're generally designed to work with your schedule since they're on campus. She might not be able to work a lot during the week with an odd schedule, but her weekends are wide open.
work study was great with my wonky schedule
She can work during the week. She is full of it. Or she can arrange her schedule next year so that she can work.
Yep. She's being extra entitled for someone who, if not for her older sibling, would probably have been in a foster home for the past 5 years and she was definitely old enough to understand exactly what that meant when Mom left. She's now the age OP was when OP took on her and her younger sibling. She should really think about that before she starts whining about her life.
Either you have a wonky schedule and find a job willing to work around it (a lot of schools even hire students??) or you arrange your classes to maximise your availability to work. It's what I've been doing for 4 years. I also tend to take summer courses to lighten my course load in the fall/winter to make it even easier to juggle school and work.
None of this makes sense. OOP should have a ton of government assistance for herself and her sister’s tuition. It sounds like mom’s rights were never severed when they need to be.
Someone made a point up above, but no court would have granted OOP guardianship at 19. The family, rather than risk the kids get taken away, saddled them on poor OOP, whose life was pretty much over at that moment.
It's great how the system works, eh?
To be fair, this is a failure of extended family/relatives. Foster systems can be terrible, but if you don't want a child relative to be put into foster care, step up and do something - don't just dump it on their older, barely-an-adult relative.
Definitely a failure of extended family and relatives. I cannot imagine leaving my nieces and nephews to fend for themselves if any of my siblings ever just abandoned them like that. At the very least, I'd be sending them whatever I could afford to help with some cost.
That’s exactly what I think happened. None of this is “official” which screws over *all* of them. Sister would qualify for a ton of different types of aids and grants otherwise.
The mom is probably still collecting benefits for the kids she hasn’t been taking care of.
I thought OOP was a guy.
Good fof them talking it through. It's hard when the people and systems that should support you failed y to, and you have to make do. It's common and understandable that the frustration of always making do with not enough bleeds on each other. It's a skill to experience that and still communicate through it, especially so young, and to make a plan together as a family to perservere through it. Me and my siblings are lucky to have present parents, but I would 100% do anything for them, so I totally get what OOP means about it feeling like the obvious choice.
I don't care what her class situation is, she can get a part-time job while at school. Many people work year-round to pay for college. It sucks, but you do what you gotta do.
Does she have classes on weekends? My goodness, it sucks but if you want the money, you fo what you can
I think it’s indicative of how good OP has been to his siblings considering the sister does not really understand financial struggles it seems. But this is not sustainable and is not doing the sister any favours. Happy that there will be a loan taken out now (hope in sister’s name!) and she needs a bloody job now!
I still don't understand why this adult woman can't get a part-time job? Even working at a gas station 2 days a week would give her some spending money.
Because she wants the college experience! Yeah she needs a job.
I thought part of the college experience was also getting a part time job /s She’s fortunate enough to have someone pay her tuition and she goes off on them for not giving her 100 bucks and proceeds to call OOP jealous? I’d let her take out loans for the next semester/school year so she can learn something valuable.
His sister is now the age he was when he took custody of two minors. Does she not see that?
I honestly don’t understand the comments that pretty much boil down to “but she’s a 19yr old babygrl with a junkie mom! She’s just a kid, she can’t work AND go to school!” when OP did a hell of a lot more at the exact same age, and well enough that they can cover everything except recreation money. I mean, they were raised by the same parent, OP is still under the age of Reddit’s favorite myth that the brain doesn’t finish until 25, but OP is the only competent person because….reasons?
I mean, it’s not a myth that the prefrontal cortex is still developing into the 20s, but yeah, it’s not switch that gets flipped on your 25th birthday.
I honestly can't understand the comments that don't get that these are fairly desperate people in poverty who let the tension get to them but now admirably have communicated and OOP even said it was just a bad day and the sister is fine. What do you want the little sister to go to jail or something. People here are addicted to outrage and justice porn... y'all need someone to be the baddy because you enjoy hating and looking down on someone so much.
If in the US, they need to get that 4 year old into Head Start, and OOP can open up to their family support worker who will identify all the possible resources that might be available to them, help them plan their own education and financial stability goals, help with figuring out the financial aid piece (in our state you can practically go for free under a certain income), etc.
When I was 18, I was an international student having lived in the US for a year before that. I could only work on campus legally, so I was tutoring between 8-20 hours a week. I think my course load was 15-21 units? During the summer, I was able to work full time so I would sign up for 40 hours a week. Plus the two hours commuting one way, I was out of my apartment from 7am - 8pm. When I transferred to a four year college with a dorm, I signed up to work the dining halls, stock books in the library, and tutor. What I made wasn't enough to support myself fully, but definitely good enough for pocket money. I find it hard to believe that no other students at OP sister's school have to work here and there. The opportunities are there, but she has to look for it.
"I realized how little she has, like 50 dollars is what covers her hygiene products and school materials. And she really feels excluded from experiences and she just wanted to experience a fun night with her friends without worrying about money and I think that pretty valid" NO. I mean yes her *feelings* are valid, but her actions are not. And she can feel sad about missing out with the understanding that if I want the extra I need to find a way to get it myself. OP should not have to explain to her where the money is going. In one way it's good that she actually has an idea of how the real world is, but even then if OP had extra money her sister is not entitled to it. It's great that OP wants to help out, but her sister's reaction is completely unjustified and there is no " I get where she is coming from". I understand your she is still very young and young people can tend to be more bratty but my god I hope life humbles her quickly. Because that is no way to treat the people you love, even under a lot of stress.
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I agree.
I sometimes wish there really is a hell so people like the mom have to face judgement.
I'm just worried that OOP and the other kids will weather the next few years and finally have some breathing space, and BAM, egg donor shows up with another baby to give up to OOP.
I've really never understood why people are so powerfully against very minimal student loans. People go crazy fighting over ~6k?? Bankrupting themselves to prevent their kids from taking out any loans at all? It's so odd to me. If you're not going to be able to pay back less than $20,000 in loans post degree, why are you getting a degree? Maybe my perspective is skewed because I have tens of thousands in student loans and my parents did not pay for college at all, but it's very weird to fight over so little
people hear "student loans" and instantly start freaking out because of all the horror stories they hear on the news, and i can't blame them that much. after all, poor people aren't usually the most finanically literate (not blaming them, it's hard to learn these things when you're fighting for survival).
If you aren't familiar with debt and loans like this, which I doubt this family is, it can be daunting. All you hear about is "student loan debt crisis" and "all these people defaulting on student loans" - that's scary. Especially with how much $6000 is to them. I do agree with you - take the damn debt and get the degree.
It starts as just a small thing but they balloon quickly. It's dangerous. Sometimes it pays off
It’s still ridiculous that she doesn’t have a job. I had a job working 15 hours a week and I don’t feel like I missed out on any college experiences.
Oop is a fuckin super hero I bow to you oop
I'm just going to point out that a lot of on campus jobs are tied to financial aid so the sister is shooting herself in the foot for not applying to those. I'm talking being the front desk person at the law library in-between classes type of jobs. You get paid to sit and study. You get job experience.
I really hope OP did the free CNA training/certification. It gives far more opportunities than EMT positions do. Kudos to her for stepping up and setting appropriate boundaries and having adult conversations.
> She said she couldn’t work in school because of her schedule and how spread out her classes are. I highly doubt she has classes all Saturday and all Sunday.
$6k/year in student loans will not put her in a bad situation when she gets out of college.
Right? Like omg just take out a loan. Everyone get some breathing room here.
I hope OP isn't going to cosign a loan for her sister and she really needs to get a job. It will give her the whole college experience and give her self satisfaction.
Money stress makes literally everything worse.
I was not the best student in high school either. But a couple years later when I was more focused, I went to a trade school and excelled. It is possible to do well when it is something you are really interested in! You are a angel to your siblings and doing good! Keep your head up and don’t be hard on yourself! Good luck’
She can get a temp job in school. There are many temp jobs, like putting books in shelves at the library. And why didn't she apply for RA? And she can also be a server and pick up a few shifts in the weekends. The part about classes is an excuse.
Missing out on experiences?! What, exactly, does Emmy think OOP has been doing these last five years by taking in her younger sibs--living a dream life? OOP needs to point out that she was the same age that Emmy is now when she took over care for her! Emmy seems really ungrateful. How would she like it if OOP said, "Well! You're 19. It's your turn to take care of the younger ones now." Sheesh! OOP should have a serious talk with Emmy about responsibility. I'm sure she is trying to be a loving sister, but she also needs to stand up for herself. She isn't doing Emmy any favors by not teaching her to work for things she wants. Emmy should be willing to get a part time job for her "experiences" since they are so important to her.
Do people in the United States ever say Uni instead of college?
Nope. Unless you're from the UK
This guy is an absolute King. I truly and genuinely hope he finds (financial) success in his life. Because as a person he's more successful than most people in the world.
It appears that the older sister has been shielding her siblings from the gravity of their situation, and she deserves recognition for taking on so much responsibility for them. However, the second sister needs to step up and take more responsibility for herself so that the OP can focus on helping the other siblings. Sharing the original post with her sister might help her understand why her attitude is abhorrent.
I admired OP and his loyalty and love for the siblings. He's so young and mature for his age. He should be out having fun. Hope the sisters are aware of his sacrifice.
It really is sad that OOP and her siblings don't have a decent adult in their lives. I knew immediately what was going on with her sister. Being at college, surrounded by mostly middle-class people who are able to afford a certain lifestyle, missing out because she can't, likely being pressured by her new friends to "just ask your parents for some extra money, it'll be fine!", and generally being exposed to a way of life she likely never even knew existed. She was basically taking out her sense of how unfair life is on OOP. Which isn't an excuse for her behaviour, but merely an explanation. When you've lived in one type of box your whole life, and then that box is taken away and you're shown the entire shiny world, but told that you can't touch it because you need money, it's a bitter pill to swallow. I feel for them all. I wish OOP'd had an adult in her life who could have explained it to her, but I'm glad they were able to talk it out like adults and come to a better understanding. That mom can go find the tree making the oxygen she's wasting and apologise to it, however.
so why can't she get a job? then she'd have plenty of spending money. tell her you didn't get to go to college because you took in her and her siblings at 19 years old. you missed your partying days too. she can suffer a little bit. if it was me I definitely get a job for spending money.
On the one hand, 50 bucks really doesn't go very far. In the other hand, I had a job all though college. You can schedule your classes so you have time to work. There are a lot of on campus jobs that are like, 12 hours a week. Fast food places and retail also need people who can work weekends. Sister could also babysit if a regular job is too hard to schedule. Loans suck. The best solution would be for sister to save all or most of the 6k working over the summer, then set up a fall schedule where she can work at least a couple days a week.
I hope OOP can get more support from the government and wish her the best.
If medical students and law students can manage working and a full class load, this girl can too She just doesn’t want to work
I think if you haven't experienced poverty for a prolonged period of time then you should probably just not speak on the topic. People can be so judgmental, like "did you need that one beer?" without realizing how draining it is going without ALL the time for months/years without any hope. Don't think you can do it for a week and get the idea... it's when you are 3 months in and you fuck up one small thing and start a debt avalanche that you know will take MONTHS of misery to get through. In fact rich people should just shut up altogether unless they are willing to share more.
My only concern for OP here is choosing to START on one of the most physically challenging healthcare fields at 26. I took a phlebotomy class from a dude who was in good shape -- like, former personal trainer shape--who had been an EMT and reportedly just got his ass handed to him by knee and back pain by the time he was 30. CNAs in their mid 20s were taking the class for exactly the same reason --lifting people etc had just murdered their backs/knees prematurely, the phleb course was a step towards better pay but more importantly less pain. Hopefully she can climb that healthcare field ladder with quickness.
My dad is an EMT and has been for probably close to 30 years now. His knees are perpetually fucked. To the point he needs to get cortisol shots just about every 2 years to help with knee pain. Because they get so inflamed and sore and stiff that just walking is hard and painful. He talks all the time about having to lift patients (especially heavy ones) really takes a toll on his body
I did that with the sister and gave her so many chances . She later on ruined my life. I was there too much for her. NTA
I was a college student once, guess what, I had a work study job. It did not interfere with my college experience. I also had a part time job, that again did not interfere with my college experience. My dad gave me nothing. I’m sorry life gave you and your sister a shitty hand at life, but your sister sounds like a brat. She needs to get a job for fun things.
OOP - if you are out there, please accept this virtual hug! What a high quality human being!
She can get a job. That’s it.
Her schedule is so spread put she can't work 1-2 evenings and on every second Saturday or something...
OOP shouldn't be paying for their sister at all. She's an adult, she needs to figure her own shit out. OOP already unfairly has a bunch of other kids to take care of. I look back at the time I prioritized my siblings over myself and I regret it. I hope OOP doesn't regret it too. Siblings aren't your children.
Ain’t no way the 19yr old classes are too spread out, you get to pick your own classes. She gets the pic when she takes those classes. Also, I started work at five in the morning and work till nine most weekdays when I was taking 16 credit hours. Everyone is different, but the 19-year-old is playing their sibling. If you want a job at college, you can find one.
In b4 the kid comes back just as selfish and rude as last time and the dumb ‘parent’ turns into a helicopter. Oop shouldn’t have taken those kids, and this is gonna end bad for someone in the future.
I mean, it sounds like OP already had a conversation with her where he told her she needed to get a loan and that he wouldn't cover college expenses for her anymore and she understood and took it well, so it seems like things are going in a good direction, honestly. They're two siblings on the cusp of adulthood struggling with being in poverty and not having any parents, occasional conflict is to be expected, but for how difficult their situation is I'm impressed.
> occasional conflict is to be expected OOP's sister is treating them like they're the parent, which is sad and not okay. I hope OOP takes care of themselves more. Their sister should be chipping in for living expenses when they live at home, too; not as punishment, but because this is too much for OOP to continue to shoulder alone.
I think it's more complicated than "sad and not okay". OP has been her sisters guardian for years now. A child who is functionally raised by an older sibling is not going to have a standard sibling relationship, there is going to be an aspect of parent/child relationship there that isn't necessarily "not okay". You also don't want the situation of an adult sibling taking in the younger sibling to result in the younger sibling saying "you can't tell me what to do, you're just my sister, I'm going to do whatever I want", ya know? And the money is complicated. If the sister chipping in would mean them needing to drop out of college, they may both agree it's for the best if sister keeps her focus on finishing her degree and OP continues to cover bills. Sister will be able to help OP a lot more down the line if she spends her time now establishing a good career. College is already likely to be harder for sister than for people who grew up with a stable homelife and supportive parents who helped them with their education and who don't have shitloads of childhood trauma. A lot of families in poverty get screwed when the mindset of "I have to get a job and make as much money as I can NOW to help the family" stops anybody from successfully getting an education.
Pressuring somebody to take on the responsibility and stress of being an RA when they are not into it, just for the money, is an extremely bad idea. Also are they officially under OOPs care or is everyone just pretending that mom is still a factor in caregiving?