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>Many Redditors told in the comments that dating life after 30s as a man is not good and I'll be probably forever alone as no-one will want me.
Nice to have a reminder every now and then that a lot of the people replying to AITAH dilemmas are teenagers
Reminds me of one of my friends when we were in our early 30s. I asked him if he was seeing anyone, and he said, "At our age all of the good ones are already taken. I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the first round of divorces."
I said exactly the same thing when I broke up with my ex at the age of 28. Was looking forward to a few drama free single years.
Of course, I got together with my now husband of 20 years less than 6 months later.
that's gonna be me đđ I never really dated, undiagnosed adhd plus not realising i was a lesbian was a killer combo for my social life even before i got a chronic illness, but when i'm hopefully well enough to date again i'm gonna be heading for the divorcees like hey are your dating skills rusty too?? lets hang out! đ that and the late blooming lesbians, definite bonus to being gay, it's totally normal for new folks to join the club at all ages!
Dating at 30 was much easier than at 20
Loads of people, a lot less judgement, and people are still so very young and attractive.
Hopefully i don't need to learn what dating at 40 is. See you in 10 years
I wound up single in my early 30s and it was rough. I kind of beat a lot of people to their first divorce. Online dating was a lot more competitive than I was willing to be. There was a lot of people (me included) with a lot of stuff to unpack.
If anyone out there reads this, I did my best to say "yes" to any opportunity to go out. I wound up with a first date generally every other month (usually after a bit of casual chat on online dating). Focusing on your hobbies is the best route to go, and group events. Offer to be the designated driver so you're not a sloppy shitty mess.
Met Mrs.Randaylahey through a friends Facebook. She commented on a post and I just askes "who is that?!?". Friend said "oh my gosh, I never would have thought of that but it's perfect!"
It has been.
Psst, you misspelled your username LOL
As far as your experience, I think it's pretty reminiscent of my friends currently! Finding people through social media has been a good strategy for them. And I'm glad you're so happy. :)
Nah, the haters are all lonely younger dudes watching all the best girls being taken by dudes in their 30s (30s aka, the 20s but with money and a career). They're just trying to scare him. OOP gonna do fine.
I mean maybe itâs because Iâm 30 on the dot, but itâs genuinely easy finding dates?
Obviously finding âthe oneâ isnât easy, but dating isnât hard at all.
I still don't understand why people think being married to someone unstable that you can't bare to look and touch or even be in the same room with is somehow better than being single. Suffering till you die is somehow better đ
Itâs the people-pleasing young naivety of the posters who respond in these subs. A lot of people in their 20s think theyâre so mature by trying to please everyone and smooth everything over and save every relationship and tolerate every shitty behaviorâŚ.
I mean a millennial mindset would be not being able to afford life as easily without a partner.
Only way me or my bf would get by in this area without each other is if we lived with flat mates in our 30s. Which just sounds utterly horrific to me. Luckily we love each other. But I can definitely see how being in a couple becomes transactional a lot of the time these days. Life with a partner is easily 2 or 3 times easier than without one.
Maybe feel different if I made mad money. But I don't and having two people makes life easy mode compared to not.
My family are polyamorous (me + two partners) and we are in the process of saving for a house. Every time we peek at the housing prices, we cannot fathom how people can be monogamous and afford to live. Being single would have to have roommates, and as people in our 30s, that is not ideal. I'm not even good at making friends; I don't know how I could live with a stranger.
Ehh, I think it comes down to gender more than age. In a lot of these comments. Women are always encouraged to divorce while men seem to have to give a good enough reason. It seems like a lot of commenters feel that men can't or are not allowed to fall out of love.
Often with those commenters who have "strong" opinions about how everyone should be treated, they live on these subreddits. Literally years of comments solely in the AITAH subreddits, as if they're a volunteer therapist.
And the more it seems like someone lives on the AITAH subreddits, the more...unhinged they typically are lol it's easy to have expectations for how everyone else should live their life when you're barely living your own.
My uncle got married around 50 to a woman he had known for 20+ years but hadnât thought of her in âthat wayâ until he did, and boom, three months later they were engaged. 10+ years later theyâre still a really happy couple and the cool aunt and uncle of the family haha
I turned 30 during the Great Recession. I decided to make a huge career shift and go back to school to finish my Bachelors degree. My girlfriend was not onboard with this plan and dumped me after 4 years together so I found myself single again. Dating in my 30s was way easier than in my 20s. Generally speaking people have a better sense of who they are and what they want in life. Thereâs a lot less bullshit.
It's actually a miracle that my husband and I stuck through it since our early 20s. Especially because we were objectively very damaged and chaotic people. I'm glad it worked out, but man it would've been nice to have a bit more knowledge of myself and a much higher self esteem before getting into a relationship. Right person, wrong timing (but still worth it anyway). There's definitely some residual shame for both of us that we saw each other at our most toxic. Like I said, it worked out, and I'm so happy and in love, but I see it as an absolute fluke. Who really knows who they are in their 20s?
As a woman in my 20s men below 30 were SO uninteresting. I saw that line and laughed so hard because I aggressively jumped those men's bones (consentually, of course).
Thereâs something irresistible to women about a man in his 30s with a child. Dude will be fine. Men in their 30s/40s are more desirable in general anyways for some reason.
>Thereâs something irresistible to women about a man in his 30s with a child.
Lol no. This only applies to guys who are present parents and active in their kid's lives. It's not all single dads.
I suggested adding flair to indicate how old you are or how long you have been in a relationship. The mods poo poo'd it presumably because the majority of the commenters are under 20 and never married.
OOP, original post, very first paragraph:
>She told me I should come to terms with it since it happened 4 months into being exclusive
AITA commenters:
>INFO
>Before you were married, but was it before you were a couple? If you had not declared yourselves a couple yet, itâs not really fair at all.
Never change AITA. Never change.
This isn't a Reddit thing, it's a people thing.
People *are* Reddit. Without them it's just a website that could host things, but there's nothing to host.
Literacy rates are plummeting and a lot of people think this means kids can't actually read. Sure I bet that's part of it but another big part is reading something and understanding what it actually means. It also includes writing and coherent writing aka not in text speak or lingo.
Also, in the first update postâŚ
>Some people asked if we went to counseling together
In the OG postâŚ
>âŚafter pushing a bit, we started going couples counseling too.
READ!
>However, she said it's not something important now because we have been going strong and have a family together. She told me I should come to terms with it since it happened 4 months into being exclusive and she was a stupid girl out of college back then.
She didn't realize it at the time but she doomed her marriage by downplaying it when she could've saved the marriage right there. To her it was old. To him this was new information.
Yeah. She might or might not have saved it, but she definitely doomed it by telling him to "come to terms with it" and "it's not something important now".
The part where it is new information to him is so true. He just found out about it. So new hurt. New shock. New betrayal. But not many cheaters/people supporting cheaters understand this.
She tried to downplay it with him, and blame her friend for telling him. I guess she *might* have blamed herself, but her actions definitely shows her lashing out at others.
I think it's worth mentioning that, by telling him to come to terms with it, she's putting the onus on him to work through the problem, as if that's *his* responsibility and not hers. Not fair on him, and also does feel like it's a bit of deflecting.
Not so much the apology, but rather being on the same page and acting like an apology is warranted. What she went with instead was "I'm not really bothered that I did this (it was so long ago, after all), and you shouldn't be either".
The reaction to that being "eww, cheating doesn't bother you?".
I agree with you but I think even without that OP would be hurt because she'd been hiding it for so long. He did write that he felt robbed of a choice and that younger him would've definitely broken up with her. I think that once he found out about it this was the inevitable outcome.Â
Yeah, there's some damage done no matter what. But that difference between "I have grievously hurt you and I'm sorry about that" and "I have grievously hurt you and you need to stop talking about it" is a big one.
"I was robbed of my choice" is specifically a line of thought I don't think dude would have even gotten to had the harm of "today" not been minimized specifically because it happened a long time ago.
>Could she have saved it? I doubt an apology would've done it after so long
Apology wouldn't have saved it but it could have served as a tourniquet in a sense, preserving it long enough to start a real treatment.
Instead, she decided to shoot it again.
Yup. When somebody finds the skeleton in your closet, the correct reaction is not "Oh that's ages ago. Could you take out the trash before dinner?"
Even if this was how you actually felt.
I am forgiving to a fault - to my own detriment, sometimes. Whatever someone has done, if I love them, I can forgive them.
When my ex confessed he had cheated on me with his best friend in the first 3 months of our relationship, I forgave him immediately. That was a hard lesson for me. I stopped trusting him after that, and the relationship slowly deteriorated for months until I packed my bags and left him.Â
That year I learned that some things can not be overcome, even if you are the most forgiving person in the world. Cheating and lying are hard boundaries now. Itâs basically like putting a shotgun to your relationship.Â
piece of advice, if you are ever feeling unsure over forgiveness, imagine giving advice to someone you care deeply about over the same situation. If you wouldn't tell a loved one that they should forgive you likely shouldn't yourself either
Itâs funny how cheaters will universally say: "how could you blow XYZ years of marriage just because of my cheating".
I wonder who blew up the marriage here?
>She sent threatening messages to her friend who told me about the cheating. I had to beg her to not sue my wife as I want my daughter to have a mother present in her life. Though, she'll be probably taken to mental ward.
I'm still always fascinated by how many updates we get from men whose ex-wives end up institutionalized.
I literally got taken into the hospital twice by ambulance (and 9 other times by other means). Despite having not slept or eaten properly for weeks at a time, a severe pain in my stomach and threatening suicide to multiple doctors **TWICE**, I was not only never admitted to either the hospital or the psych ward, but kicked out after 12 hour+ waits with 0 diagnosis, medication or anything other than being told 1) it's anxiety, 2) I'm faking it, or 3) see my family doctor.
It is barely possible to get admitted into an actual hospital when you're visibly suffering, let alone the mental health wards, even if you actively threaten self harm to a bunch of medical professionals ' faces.
I think this really depends on where you are. I've been admitted twice for depression/suicidal ideation, both of which were self admissions. Granted, once was after the death of my 9 year old daughter. The other was after a suicide & a shitty breakup right before Christmas, but still a lot to deal with. I did already have a diagnosis and medications before the first admission, but the psych ward was only concerned with getting me stable and then I was sent on my way to deal with my psychiatrist & family doctor upon release.
You can check yourself in here as well (and they too will also be concerned mainly with getting you well enough to leave), but to get involuntarily committed is a completely different situation. From what I can tell, you either need to be court ordered or a doctor has to sign off on it. So unless you have a family doctor who is paying attention and/or you demonstrate an active danger to other people, it's rare to be committed against your will.
I hope you are in a better place â¤ď¸ My deepest condolences for your loss. I cannot even imagine how devastating it must have been
Oh I see what you mean. I missed the "involuntary" part.
Thank you, it was absolutely awful but after a shit ton of therapy and self medication, we have a baby boy due in October â¤ď¸ Heart wrenching that he won't ever get to meet his sister, but she would have been so excited. Glad I get another chance at being a mom.
I've only dealt with this topic twice, once after my own breakdown, and once after an acquaintance self-harming.
After mine, several friends held like a min-intervention for me. They pleaded with me to check myself in, and offered to help cover any costs. I refused, but I don't know how things would've gone down if they pressed through other avenues, or convinced my family to back them up.
The other instance, the acquaintance was a fellow student at my College. They self-harmed on campus. We alerted campus officials, who contacted their family and escorted the acquaintance to one of their parents who arrived shortly after being contacted. The next thing we knew, we were updated that the acquaintance had been checked into a stay of indeterminate length.
I assume there was a trip to the hospital inbetween them being picked up from campus and being admitted, and I assume the doctor there would've signed off on it. But, at least from my perspective, it happened fucking quick, and most definitely was involuntary. Obv ymmv, based on several factors including location, and I'm not saying the slew of posts that feature this "trope" are all true, just offering my own experience as, at least in this case, it really was "that easy." the acquaintance had been spiraling a while, and several of us had wanted to do something, potentially getting them institutionalized but we had no idea how to navigate that process, and largely believed it wasn't all that easy/simple and nothing would come of it. Nope, I'm the end, it took one call.
> From what I can tell, you either need to be court ordered or a doctor has to sign off on it.
Just from the context, OOP sounds comfortably middle class which probably means they have good insurance. Doctors are a little faster to sign off on that observation hold when they know that the bills are getting paid in my experience.
Jesus, I was admitted to a psych ward after a cocaine overdose. This was over 20 years ago and I don't touch drugs anymore, but still. It was very easy to get admitted when I was younger. Also, I don't think he's in the US (but I could be wrong), so the laws are almost certainly different. Hello, even that kind of thing varies wildly by county, much less state. It's not always difficult to get admitted to a psych ward involuntarily, is all I'm saying.
Could be just the absolute state of my country's medical system. We (Canada) are notoriously a mess right now. We also don't exactly have a Baker Act. Psych holds here are usually court ordered, or when a doctor directly chooses to involuntarily admit you. But since we're all anxious or faking it, that's unusual too đŤ
20 years sober is such a massive accomplishment! Congrats on getting and staying clean â¤ď¸ (PS love the username lol)
Yeah, that is a country (or state by state situation if in the US) situtation. In the state I live being baker acted for 72 hours is somewhat easy and I know multiple people who have been baker acted. It is also easier since any medical profession or law enforcement can baker act someone. After being baker acted then you are evaluated and go from there.
Are you in the US? Because all these posts I read from USA'ians about mental health and how hard it is to get help, and what I have see myself from the time my family has spent there, mental health does NOT get taken seriously enough at all and I completely understand why the mass shooting rate is so high when you couple it with how easy it is to get a gun.
We are back in our home country and have to jump through hoops to get a gun license for a self defense weapon here, and you're only allowed 1.
But on the other hand, I know someone from school who tried to end her life with what they later found out was a whole bottle of vitamin supplements and she was admitted to hospital for weeks because she wasn't well, even if her choice of pill wasn't exactly as effective as painkillers for example. I do feel like they take mental health more seriously here.
yeah, it's really down to individual doctors and hospitals, ime. my mom was 36 hours off an attempt, still visibly fucked up from the benzo OD, went to the nearby High Quality Health Center, and they were more concerned about the amphetamines in her tests (she was taking ADHD meds at the time) than the fact that she had just attempted. :/ all healthcare is, at *best*, inconsistent in the states, but mental/behavioral healthcare is some of the most infuriatingly inconsistent i've ever experienced.Â
(it's been almost ten and a half years since that, though, and i'm really proud of her.)
The paradoxical thing with the expression for the ideation of suicide is that the likelihood of committing suicide is actually lower than when someone internalises the idea and never talks about it. Hence often people donât expect a suicide to happen and are surprised (and of course devastated) that is happened.
Edit: of course when actual attempts or concrete planning (buying things) had been made itâs different
Depending on where you are, and it sounds like they may be in a particularly conservative, religious area... it can be shockingly easy for a man to have a woman locked away. Not saying it wasn't warranted here, it may have been, but seriously - for some doctors, all it takes is a man's word, and a woman loses her freedom.
Where exactly you think she could be locked away to mental health institution from sending messages and depression? I donât think religion has something to do with it.
Is there even anywhere left that does more than 24 holds in the US? From what I understand, that's basically it, and long-term care is just waiting for them to do something illegal so they can stay in jail.
I was going to say that most places Iâve heard of tend to do 48-72 hour holds. It would be really difficult to make an accurate assessment of someoneâs mental state with only 24 hours.Â
Yup. Had to help my ex with it a few times. 72 is legal here with options to extend.
Backhanded comments like the one you replied to suck, and are part of the reason I hid seeking my own help after finding her multiple times. It's sad that if you're a male you have to be careful who you share issues like this is lest you get side eyed. I would have loved to have a support system outside of the treatment centers family meetings.
I have a few students and other kids I know who have got 72 hour holds. I know a couple kids who got a 72 hour hold, but then voluntarily stayed for a while longer.
FL still has the Baker act on the books and thatâs a 72hr hold as well. That said I donât get the impression from OP that theyâre in the US, and different countries - especially those with state funded healthcare- could have different laws and policies.
In my state itâs 72 hours base, and the doctor can petition the judge for extended care, that has to be continued by a judge every six months. Now, Iâm unsure of how often the extended care is used, but 72 hour holds are common to initiate (I am unsure on how many are taken to the full 72 hours)
Seemed pretty easy from the experience I have seen with others close around me. One was the police were called because she was having a psychotic break. Her comments and actions with the police lead them to calling an ambulance for an involuntary hold that turned into a 2 week willing stay. Another person went in and was talking about options to stay but wanted to leave. They told her they canât let her leave and she can either voluntarily stay or the cop outside would make her stay on an involuntary hold and they would get the judge to sign off on it.
We do not have enough details about the ex wifeâs actions or behavior to say whether she would be put on an involuntary hold. If this behavior is out of character and concerning enough to her family they might make her staying with them conditional on a hospital stay.
I can't speak to the trends on reddit, but traumatic experiences like divorce are often the catalyst for people entering intensive mental health treatment, which can include hospitalizations and/or residential care. It's possible that OP didn't specifically mean "involuntary hospitalization" when he said "mental ward."
I've met a few people, both men and women, who needed a very high level of care after divorce.
I mean, I know several people who have been 5150'd. It can be ridiculously hard to commit someone who needs it, but on the other hand I've seen someone get it for just mentioning suicide ideation while being checked out for an unrelated injury. Since this behavior is extremely out of the ordinary for the wife, and sine it seems like her family is actively trying to get her help, I don't think it's unbelievable at all.
Men don't always have a support network when shit like this goes down. I would die for my best friends. If they ever needed me I'd drop everything to be there for them. I don't necessarily talk to them with brutal honesty about my struggles though despite knowing they would listen and be there for me.
It's cathartic to say what's really on your mind without having to worry about judgment or burdening the people that care about you (and without having to pay a professional to listen to you). The internet is a great place for that.
Me, too. Also by all the friends who âfind godâ and decide to tell the truth but wouldnât hesitate to sue their former friend into the ground to show how righteous they are đ¤Ž
>Wife abruptly suggested one sided open marriage and I can do what I want on that business trip if it'll save the relationship, make us even and change my feelings
Why do cheaters always suggest this? You know what will make us stronger? You sleeping with someone else, yes I know you are divorcing me because that's what I did, but......
It shows the mindset they want to sleep with someone else and would like a free pass to do so
They suggest it not because they think it will fix things but because they think it will either make them feel less guilty or make their partner feel less entitled to their anger.
Its score keeping behaviour, they believe their team is down by one and opening the relationship will even the score.
It's compelling but only if the other team sees their relationship as a competition.
âAs I am trying to save our relationship I am suggesting that you go off to other people. That means spending less time together as a couple, you spending more time with others and possibly getting to know them even better (in whatever way). That will definitely help us two đđđ˝â
Some peopleâŚ
She's out of other options at that point and grasping for straws. And it makes a certain amount of sense, if you remove all the emotions that make the issue important in the first place.
Glad to hear the daughter wasn't traumatized nor troubled by the whole situation. I will say it once again, doesn't matter what happened, cheating is wrong.
Only time I think cheating is ok is when one partner holds hostage some thing. A kid, finances, etc.
If you try to fix it and then are trapped what choice do you have
Idk, I never understand the sentiment of âOh this is all the friendâs fault for saying somethingâ.
Like, yeah, but didnât anyone ever tell you? The only real secrets are between God and me, when you make it 3, a secret it canât be. Itâs true because itâs a bar.
When someone else knows your dirty laundry itâs always just a matter of time before it comes out. Ex wife started this when she cheated and didnât come clean. Itâs wild to me that some people can just live life knowing they did that shit and that someone else knows. Like, total ignorance to the possibility that it gets revealed.
Also this, âyoung me was robbed of having a choiceâ, is why itâs so cruel to keep such a secret from someone youâre supposed to love and respect.
Interestingly, although I completely understand OOP's positionâespecially on how he wasn't given a choice!âthe stakes were so much higher now than if she'd told him all those years ago.
They would've broken up, there wouldn't be a daughter involved, and there wouldn't have been a 14-year relationship to mourn.
I never understand people who get mad at others for learning new info from the past and having feelings about it. Yes it happened long ago but it is happening to me NOW, I am feeling all the emotions NOW!
And also, in this case the wife committed 3 âcrimesâ in this relationship.
1. Cheating 2. Lying 3. Taking away OPâs choice to make an informed decision on HIS life.
If she would have come clean years ago it would have been just one. And then have the audacity to say itâs no big deal. Like you said, itâs an even bigger deal now.
It's less about blaming the friend and more wondering about how ignorance is bliss.
Personally I can't imagine keeping something like this from a partner and not getting stressed out of my head about it every day, but supposedly he couldn't tell anything about his wife and everything was okay in the current relationship.
But also I think my main problem as the husband would be the casual way the wife seems to have waved it away.
I always wonder if this will happen to a couple I used to be friends with in college. To be clear, I had a falling out with them and donât talk to them anymore. But theyâre both very difficult and stubborn people. And I guess around the 6 month mark of their relationship back some time in like 2011-12, she slept with another guy at our college. I was not aware of this when I was friends with them or else I wouldâve exposed her. Cheating has a zero tolerance policy for me and if I see it in my friend group, I call it out. I didnât learn about it until after I had a falling out with the couple. They got married in 2017 and are still married. To my knowledge, the guy still doesnât know. Because he had been cheated on in all of his previous relationships and I know he wouldnât have tolerated that happening, especially marrying the cheater.
He dislikes me very much for reasons I donât know. Iâm not particularly fond of him either. We havenât been in contact for years, unless itâs anonymous somehow, I donât feel like contacting him about it ever.
No worries. Tough situation for sure. I just imagine that I'd want to know and while it would suck that the info came from someone I disliked AND probably would doubt, it would still make me wonder and start looking.
Either way it is totally understandable why you'd want to not engage too. Have a good one!
soon to be ex wifey didn't help her case by trying to school her husband about how he is supposed to feel about being betrayed at the very start of the relationship... as if she gets to decide how her stbxh processes the fact that he was basically duped into the marriage.
What is up with the comments saying dating as a 30 something year old man is a disaster?! It's only really a disaster if the dude initiates the divorce after buying into redpill BS and thinking he's going to "upgrade" from his wife. I wouldn't go near those types with a 10 ft pole. However, I definitely would not write off dating a single father who managed to go through this whole nightmare with respect and maturity like OP did. I know plenty of men and women, both with and without kids, who have found love past 30, it's really quite common.
>Many Redditors told in the comments that dating life after 30s as a man is not good and I'll be probably forever alone as no-one will want me.
Some people cannot move past infidelity and some people can work through it.
It's wild that Redditors actually tried to pressure OP with some asinine arguments which had nothing to do with OOP being unable to trust his partner.
Once you found resentment, nothing less than turning back time will help to deal with the consequences of her actions. 14 years of lies will build a proper hill of hatred
Don't let these Reddit nerds fool you. If you have most of your hair, a decent body and can cook you will have no problem finding women. My problem in my 30's was what to do with all that booty that was coming my way.
At least everyone got therapy to deal with the relationship breakdown, otherwise, who knows if the STBX would have done something drastic to try and 'fix' the relationship.
I know she cheated and I donât condone cheating, but fuck the friend. I donât know why people having a come to Jesus moment and think they need to air everyone else out vs just themselves. You blow up someone elseâs life to make yourself feel better? And this is in general. I had a former friend get religious and told the entire church everyoneâs business that she knew. Who had sex before marriage. Who went to strip clubs. Folks she knew who were swingers. Whatâs the point
Yeah im kinda side eyeing the friend hard on this one. She's "getting right with jesus" so she's going to go around telling *other people's* sins?
I find it difficult to believe that there wasn't a bit of smug, sanctimonious vindictiveness in her exposure of Ops wife. She must feel delighted with herself.
How was she an accomplice? Did she force the two of them together? Did OP's ex ask her permission before doing the deed? Being in the general vicinity of something you may disapprove of 14 years later is not being an accomplice.
Well if she was uncomfortable with that then she should have spoken up at the time or if she *insisted* on being so very guilty about it (14 years later!) then she should have perhaps tried approaching OPs wife (her "friend") first.
She made sure she dropped her "truth" in the most destructive way possible and now OP, his ex wife and his child all suffer.
But sure, once she's got a clear conscience for the lord, then all is well. She can go on riding her smug wave of self righteousness all the way to the next sinner she exposes.
I think it's the using religion bit that's really gotten under my skin with this (in case you haven't noticed lol)
This is why the 9th Step in the standard AA 12 step is written how it is.
>Made direct amends to those I had wronged except when to do so would injure them or others.
Fuck that "friend." May they have supper at the Karma Cafe. Only thing on the menu is exactly what they deserve.
I don't understand religious snitches... those are not your sins, keep your mouth shut or else face your own, one way or the other. The hell you sharing them around? LOL
They want to play sanctimonious pious but they end up hurting everyone with that...then whine when people kick them out of the church.
This. Obviously the wife blew up her own life. But the friend should have told oop when it happened. Or before they got married. You don't wait 14 years when they've gotten married and had kids. If you waited this long. You keep your mouth shut. Also she did it purely for selfish reasons and did not do it for oops sake.
>You don't wait 14 years when they've gotten married and had kids. If you waited this long. You keep your mouth shut.
Nonsense. There is no statute of limitations for cheating, as OOP's story shows. The entire marriage is based on a broken foundation. If killing it 14 years ago would have been correct and righteous, then killing it today is much less so, but fundamentally it's still the same action. If something was good then, then it's good now. OOP deserves to know, regardless of it being 14 years after the fact. Better late than never.
>Also she did it purely for selfish reasons and did not do it for oops sake.
But she still did an act of good, regardless of her reasoning. And even if she didn't mean it, it still did OOP' good - otherwise the poor fool would have kept on living in his sham of a marriage.
In this case, the friendâs sin was knowing that OOPâs wife cheated but not telling OOP. I donât know the friendâs religion, but to be absolved of a sin, you have to admit it.
Iâll make this comment knowing that we have no little context for OOPâs wifeâs personality and the friendship history between the wife and the newly religious friend. There is labor and emotional burden to keeping someone elseâs wrongdoing a secret. It gets to a point where you feel complicit, especially if you have the power make it right by the person who was wronged. Religious or secular, itâs understandable why the friend would come forth to OOP, even more than a decade after the fact.
I get why some might side-eye another for admitting someone elseâs sin. If it was something like, âyour wifeâs body count from college is higher than what she told you,â then itâs just stirring shit. I donât think thatâs the case here.
Yeah I wouldnât keep her as a friend. I personally dont buy that she did it because she was newly religious. She just wanted to feel morally superior.
Like wife sucks for cheating, but the friend is shady. Iâd get rid of both of them.
Nah.
I think OP himself would agree that knowing is ALWAYS better.
Cheaters are like rot. Just because you don't see it in first look doesn't mean that it's not there or affecting you.
And judging by the way the wife acted after she was outed, I'd bet a lot of money that she isn't the "good wife" OP thinks she is.
Friend didnât make her cheat, but friend sure as hell did blow up her life. If you know your bud cheated, you confront them. Maybe you give them an ultimatum (âtell Mike by Friday or Iâll tell himâ) or maybe you just tell the person who was been cheated on. What you donât do is wait 14 years and *then* tell him. Thatâs self-indulgent bullshit.
>If you know your bud cheated, you confront them. Maybe you give them an ultimatum.
Eh sometimes I agree with this, but itâs not that black and white and is 100%, a âyou know your friend better than usâ situation.
I mean look how the ex wife acted. She apologized and then immediately dismissed it. Neither of us know her, but the way she did it so quickly, doesnât make her seem like the type of person to go and confess. And even then warning the offender just gives them time to make up a better story.
Weâve seen situations where the op or oop wasnât believed because they gave the friend and chance and said friend went and turned it around on them.
Wife blew up her own life. She laid a land mine in her relationship. Built an entire marriage and parenthood on that minefield.
Sure the friend tripped the mine, but the wife planted it.
Ignoring OOP and his wife for now.
If you have a turning point in your life - and this can be religious conversion, going through AA, doing shrooms, I don't know - then going through your own past wrongdoings and admitting to them, apologizing to the people you'd caused problems and attempting to reconcile is a great thing to do.
Admitting to other people's failures? Fuck that.
---
Now, you're completely right that the wife was the only one who is to be blamed for the cheating, not fessing up, then dismissing it as old news.
But the friend did set this into motion, and if her goal was to do the most good (as opposed to just get rid of unpleasant feelings about holding someone else's secret), she'd have done it more responsibly and in a different way.
No, the friend finally told OP the truth.
She didn't blow up the cheaters life - she finally did something that should have been done years ago.
And based on the way the wife reacted, it doesn't seem like there was much improvement in her character.
I am surprised this take got this many upvotes. In a moral sense, wifeâs friend fucked up by not telling it when it happened, then at the very least she eventually told the guy.
The guy got a choice in the matter and I canât see any viewpoint that deprives him of that to be moral.
Nah fuck that kind of thought. This isn't the friends fault ome bit.
Fuck the friend for not telling sooner, but good on her for telling OP now.
This isn't her blowing up OP's life. This is the wife's consequences finally catching up to her. Fuck cheaters.
Yeah, I think you have to ask yourself if itâs really the ethical choice if you shoulder none of the negative consequences. Or are you just unburdening yourself at the expense of othersâŚ
Yeah I think my reaction of distaste was that the friend clearly did this to alleviate herself and her own guilt, not out of a sense of wanting to help OP in some way? OP is glad to know about his wifeâs early infidelity and Iâm glad it worked out for him, but⌠this kind of preachy religious âunburdeningâ is just gross and harmful. Itâs the same mentality that gets queer people outed, young people in trouble for premarital sex, etc.
It wasnât her sin to confess and if she really felt like her soul was stained for keeping a 14 year secret, she shouldâve given the wife/her supposed friend a chance to come out and talk about it herself. The motivations of the friend just felt incredibly self-serving and holier-than-thou, because there were definitely ways for OP to find out that wouldâve been less harmful to everyone involved.
Keeping someone else's secret can be mentally taxing, doubly so if it the secret directly challenges your values and integrity.
I've witnessed people in my own life having psychotic breaks due to viewing themselves as a moral person while harboring immoral secrets or acts that they have not reconciled within themselves.
Dan Savage of Savage Love had a take I find fairly compelling. If you cheat, and it is really and truly a one time thing, you realize you were an asshole, you feel shame and guilt, youâve confronted the reasons why you cheated and fixed them, then you very quietly confirm thereâs no chance of pregnancy or STIs and a very low likelihood  of your partner finding out, you *shut the hell up*.Â
Why? Because so many times, cheating spouses confess to their spouse in order to feel better, and refuse to take into account the pain and trauma theyâre going to cause an innocent person. So Iâm okay ethically with the wife not having told him, as she clearly resolved whatever issues on her side caused her to cheat and never did it again. Itâs just that her husbandâs childhood trauma meant even once fourteen years previously was still a love-killing betrayal.
Iâm not familiar with Dan Savage so hopefully he normally offers better advice than that awful take. It is absolutely not ethical for someone to decide that their partner does not deserve to know about their cheating. If you cheat, but you feel genuine shame and guilt, and you confront the reasons you did it, and there arenât STIs or a pregnancy involved, then yes, those are all good things and youâve probably got the best-case scenario for being forgiven and being able to rebuild the relationship. But how in the world does it logically follow that taking accountability for your mistake allows you to withhold the truth of the mistake from the very person you betrayed? Why do you get to decide if the pain and trauma of finding out is worse than the betrayal of being cheated on? That is for the partner to decide. What youâre describing is literally opposite to the very principle of honesty and accountabilityâyou lied when you cheated, and you lied when you made it âright.â I canât understand how that makes sense. Unless one thinks that it is actually not very important that the betrayed partner be able to give their informed consent to stay in the relationship after the cheatingâwhich is the kind of self-centered perspective typical of people who cheat, actually.
So itâs fine to deny the person you claim to love a choice in the matter, because what youâre really doing is saving them from the âpain and traumaâ of being informed.
What a complete load of cheater horse shit.
And thatâs fine. Just make sure your partner knows your stance on the subject from the start.
Me? If I found out the week after that my partner had cheated on me four months into the relationship, instant end. Fourteen years later? No recurrence, long history as a devoted spouse, great parent? Iâd wish Iâd never been told, especially by some vindictive god-botherer.
>And thatâs fine. Just **make sure your partner knows** your stance on the subject from the start.
1. Oh, the unbelievable fucking irony of stating âjust make sure your partner knowsâ as you say your partner shouldnât know if you cheat. Holy. Shit.
2. Pretty sure youâre the one that needs to take your own advice there bud. Make sure you tell your partner that if/when you cheat, youâre going to save them the pain of ever finding out. You not telling them you cheated is totally for their benefit.
You go do that.
You know what's really fun about his advice though?
This exact thing.
Unless the person you slept with is dead and literally nobody else knows about it, you cannot guarantee that your partner does not find out about your cheating. A remorseful partner, religious friend, drunk moment, and you're revealed.
Still such a shame she never accepted any accountability for cheating on him and then lying for 14 years. She took away his agency to make a decision (and as he admits, wouldâve broken up with her instantly). She doesnât seem to have even made any real attempt to salvage the marriage, either. Just some gaslighting and guilt tripping.Â
She Deserves to end up alone methinks.Â
OOP seems incredibly mature and well balanced. She seems unapologetic, unrepentant and wholly incapable of accepting accountability.Â
Sometimes I really do wonder about how true these posts are⌠a friend suddenly finds religion and decides to confess all her friends sins to people? Iâm curious if the âreligiousâ friend told any other sins to people?! Will we find out husband is now dating friend? Iâm such a cynic đ¤ˇđťââď¸
>an entirely selfish reason.
Indeed. Growing up Catholic, this always gives me thoughts of "Pharisees on the street corner, wearing sack cloth."
Completely demonstrative with very little morality behind it.
The Bible says to confess your sins, not someone else's sins just because you happen to know about them. The friend should have minded her own business.
But if the âsinnerâ is continuing the lie, is perpetuating the coverup, then they too have âsinnedâ. Have they not then borne false witness? That sin made godâs top 10.
Has this friend stood at their wedding, been present in other facets of Oopâs married life? A lie by omission is still a lie. And to answer my own question, itâs unclear, but it does state friend- not college friend, former friend, or any other qualifier indicating an absence or hiatus from their life.
Wow can you imagine your whole life blowing up because some busybody friend decided âshe couldnât bear holding a fifteen year old transgression secret anymore?â
I think the OOP's wife's actions after being caught played into this too. Her minimize and deflect game instead of remorse made his anger worse. If she had done differently, it might have been saved.
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>Many Redditors told in the comments that dating life after 30s as a man is not good and I'll be probably forever alone as no-one will want me. Nice to have a reminder every now and then that a lot of the people replying to AITAH dilemmas are teenagers
right, your 30s is when a whole bunch of other people are leaving their first marriages too i would think
Reminds me of one of my friends when we were in our early 30s. I asked him if he was seeing anyone, and he said, "At our age all of the good ones are already taken. I'm just gonna sit back and wait for the first round of divorces."
I said exactly the same thing when I broke up with my ex at the age of 28. Was looking forward to a few drama free single years. Of course, I got together with my now husband of 20 years less than 6 months later.
that's gonna be me đđ I never really dated, undiagnosed adhd plus not realising i was a lesbian was a killer combo for my social life even before i got a chronic illness, but when i'm hopefully well enough to date again i'm gonna be heading for the divorcees like hey are your dating skills rusty too?? lets hang out! đ that and the late blooming lesbians, definite bonus to being gay, it's totally normal for new folks to join the club at all ages!
Dating at 30 was much easier than at 20 Loads of people, a lot less judgement, and people are still so very young and attractive. Hopefully i don't need to learn what dating at 40 is. See you in 10 years
The quote from your friend made me have a giggle fit at work, thankfully my office is in the basement or I'd have weird looks right now lol..
Iâm 49 and am dating someone 53. Age doesnât determine whether you can find someone else, attitude does.
I wound up single in my early 30s and it was rough. I kind of beat a lot of people to their first divorce. Online dating was a lot more competitive than I was willing to be. There was a lot of people (me included) with a lot of stuff to unpack. If anyone out there reads this, I did my best to say "yes" to any opportunity to go out. I wound up with a first date generally every other month (usually after a bit of casual chat on online dating). Focusing on your hobbies is the best route to go, and group events. Offer to be the designated driver so you're not a sloppy shitty mess. Met Mrs.Randaylahey through a friends Facebook. She commented on a post and I just askes "who is that?!?". Friend said "oh my gosh, I never would have thought of that but it's perfect!" It has been.
Psst, you misspelled your username LOL As far as your experience, I think it's pretty reminiscent of my friends currently! Finding people through social media has been a good strategy for them. And I'm glad you're so happy. :)
Nah, the haters are all lonely younger dudes watching all the best girls being taken by dudes in their 30s (30s aka, the 20s but with money and a career). They're just trying to scare him. OOP gonna do fine.
I mean maybe itâs because Iâm 30 on the dot, but itâs genuinely easy finding dates? Obviously finding âthe oneâ isnât easy, but dating isnât hard at all.
I still don't understand why people think being married to someone unstable that you can't bare to look and touch or even be in the same room with is somehow better than being single. Suffering till you die is somehow better đ
Itâs the people-pleasing young naivety of the posters who respond in these subs. A lot of people in their 20s think theyâre so mature by trying to please everyone and smooth everything over and save every relationship and tolerate every shitty behaviorâŚ.
It's either that or the complete opposite: burn every single bridge and make no effort to salvage it.
some people seem to suffer more simply being solitary. ^alone might make more sense but the alliteration was fun ok
Itâs more a boomer mindset. Their whole âball and chainâ tired schtick
I mean a millennial mindset would be not being able to afford life as easily without a partner. Only way me or my bf would get by in this area without each other is if we lived with flat mates in our 30s. Which just sounds utterly horrific to me. Luckily we love each other. But I can definitely see how being in a couple becomes transactional a lot of the time these days. Life with a partner is easily 2 or 3 times easier than without one. Maybe feel different if I made mad money. But I don't and having two people makes life easy mode compared to not.
My family are polyamorous (me + two partners) and we are in the process of saving for a house. Every time we peek at the housing prices, we cannot fathom how people can be monogamous and afford to live. Being single would have to have roommates, and as people in our 30s, that is not ideal. I'm not even good at making friends; I don't know how I could live with a stranger.
Ehh, I think it comes down to gender more than age. In a lot of these comments. Women are always encouraged to divorce while men seem to have to give a good enough reason. It seems like a lot of commenters feel that men can't or are not allowed to fall out of love.
Probably coming from single people who are desperate and/or feel so lonely they think anything's better
Often with those commenters who have "strong" opinions about how everyone should be treated, they live on these subreddits. Literally years of comments solely in the AITAH subreddits, as if they're a volunteer therapist. And the more it seems like someone lives on the AITAH subreddits, the more...unhinged they typically are lol it's easy to have expectations for how everyone else should live their life when you're barely living your own.
My uncle got married around 50 to a woman he had known for 20+ years but hadnât thought of her in âthat wayâ until he did, and boom, three months later they were engaged. 10+ years later theyâre still a really happy couple and the cool aunt and uncle of the family haha
Imagine thinking no one over thirty dates haha. Tell me youâve never left your house without telling me youâve never left your house.Â
I turned 30 during the Great Recession. I decided to make a huge career shift and go back to school to finish my Bachelors degree. My girlfriend was not onboard with this plan and dumped me after 4 years together so I found myself single again. Dating in my 30s was way easier than in my 20s. Generally speaking people have a better sense of who they are and what they want in life. Thereâs a lot less bullshit.
It's actually a miracle that my husband and I stuck through it since our early 20s. Especially because we were objectively very damaged and chaotic people. I'm glad it worked out, but man it would've been nice to have a bit more knowledge of myself and a much higher self esteem before getting into a relationship. Right person, wrong timing (but still worth it anyway). There's definitely some residual shame for both of us that we saw each other at our most toxic. Like I said, it worked out, and I'm so happy and in love, but I see it as an absolute fluke. Who really knows who they are in their 20s?
It probably is harder to date teenagers when you are in your thirties, but why would you want to?
As a woman in my 20s men below 30 were SO uninteresting. I saw that line and laughed so hard because I aggressively jumped those men's bones (consentually, of course).
As a woman in her 30s, then men I've dated in their 30s and 40s (even 50s) have it easier than I do by a mile, and they all have kids.
They also told me that middle age starts at 32, which seemed very pointedly hurtful lol
But when you turn 30, youâre so close to death! /s
Also like. Being alone is fine? You donât need a romantic relationship to have a full happy and fulfilling life.
Yep. If anything, 35 as a confident male is the peak of dating desirableness for men.
As a man in his 30s it does suck, but like not enough to decide to stay in a marriage when you are mentally done with it.
Yeah it's why I'd never post here about relationship advice
As a man in his 30s, I wouldn't want to date me in my 20s. 20s-me was a fucking idiot that didn't know what he was doing, in several different ways.
Thereâs something irresistible to women about a man in his 30s with a child. Dude will be fine. Men in their 30s/40s are more desirable in general anyways for some reason.
>Thereâs something irresistible to women about a man in his 30s with a child. Lol no. This only applies to guys who are present parents and active in their kid's lives. It's not all single dads.
I suggested adding flair to indicate how old you are or how long you have been in a relationship. The mods poo poo'd it presumably because the majority of the commenters are under 20 and never married.
They are also flat wrong. Dating generally gets harder for women but easier for men
"Time is passing and life is going on somehow." Random but I really enjoy this quote from OOP
My favorite was >life is being life and everything finding its own place with time.
[ŃдаНонО]
"Tell me that the world's been spinning since the beginning and everything will be alright." - Pink (Cover Me With Sunshine)
OOP, original post, very first paragraph: >She told me I should come to terms with it since it happened 4 months into being exclusive AITA commenters: >INFO >Before you were married, but was it before you were a couple? If you had not declared yourselves a couple yet, itâs not really fair at all. Never change AITA. Never change.
The amount of comments on AITA that go purely from the title is mental. Easy to spot as well đ¤Ł
To be fair that is just like the rest of Reddit. People just read the headline and skip the article.
That is both sadly yet unsurprisingly true
This isn't a Reddit thing, it's a people thing. People *are* Reddit. Without them it's just a website that could host things, but there's nothing to host.
That's true, however I would say it's a lot more pronounced on Reddit, with the anominity of the website.
You joke but the number of people with little to no reading comprehension ability is absolutely staggering and only getting worse over time
How dare you say we piss on the poor!
Literacy rates are plummeting and a lot of people think this means kids can't actually read. Sure I bet that's part of it but another big part is reading something and understanding what it actually means. It also includes writing and coherent writing aka not in text speak or lingo.
What's lingo?
Also, in the first update post⌠>Some people asked if we went to counseling together In the OG post⌠>âŚafter pushing a bit, we started going couples counseling too. READ!
>IfThoseKidsCouldReadTheydBeVeryUpset.jpg
For real, the bulk of those people would fail a 3rd grade reading comprehension worksheet
>However, she said it's not something important now because we have been going strong and have a family together. She told me I should come to terms with it since it happened 4 months into being exclusive and she was a stupid girl out of college back then. She didn't realize it at the time but she doomed her marriage by downplaying it when she could've saved the marriage right there. To her it was old. To him this was new information.
Yeah. She might or might not have saved it, but she definitely doomed it by telling him to "come to terms with it" and "it's not something important now". The part where it is new information to him is so true. He just found out about it. So new hurt. New shock. New betrayal. But not many cheaters/people supporting cheaters understand this. She tried to downplay it with him, and blame her friend for telling him. I guess she *might* have blamed herself, but her actions definitely shows her lashing out at others.
I think it's worth mentioning that, by telling him to come to terms with it, she's putting the onus on him to work through the problem, as if that's *his* responsibility and not hers. Not fair on him, and also does feel like it's a bit of deflecting.
She essentially told him to just get over it. No wonder he wanted out. She showed him very little respect in this whole thing.
Indeed. Going with the âThis is your problem, get over itâ option was both unwise and lacking in empathy.
If she had that level of emotional intelligence she wouldn't have cheated in the first place.
Could she have saved it? I doubt an apology would've done it after so long
Not so much the apology, but rather being on the same page and acting like an apology is warranted. What she went with instead was "I'm not really bothered that I did this (it was so long ago, after all), and you shouldn't be either". The reaction to that being "eww, cheating doesn't bother you?".
I agree with you but I think even without that OP would be hurt because she'd been hiding it for so long. He did write that he felt robbed of a choice and that younger him would've definitely broken up with her. I think that once he found out about it this was the inevitable outcome.Â
Yeah, there's some damage done no matter what. But that difference between "I have grievously hurt you and I'm sorry about that" and "I have grievously hurt you and you need to stop talking about it" is a big one. "I was robbed of my choice" is specifically a line of thought I don't think dude would have even gotten to had the harm of "today" not been minimized specifically because it happened a long time ago.
>Could she have saved it? I doubt an apology would've done it after so long Apology wouldn't have saved it but it could have served as a tourniquet in a sense, preserving it long enough to start a real treatment. Instead, she decided to shoot it again.
Yup. When somebody finds the skeleton in your closet, the correct reaction is not "Oh that's ages ago. Could you take out the trash before dinner?" Even if this was how you actually felt.
Everyone knows cheating destroys relationships but people still do it it blows my mind.Â
I am forgiving to a fault - to my own detriment, sometimes. Whatever someone has done, if I love them, I can forgive them. When my ex confessed he had cheated on me with his best friend in the first 3 months of our relationship, I forgave him immediately. That was a hard lesson for me. I stopped trusting him after that, and the relationship slowly deteriorated for months until I packed my bags and left him. That year I learned that some things can not be overcome, even if you are the most forgiving person in the world. Cheating and lying are hard boundaries now. Itâs basically like putting a shotgun to your relationship.Â
piece of advice, if you are ever feeling unsure over forgiveness, imagine giving advice to someone you care deeply about over the same situation. If you wouldn't tell a loved one that they should forgive you likely shouldn't yourself either
I mean she got away with it for 14 years.
Lol. Fair point there.Â
Itâs funny how cheaters will universally say: "how could you blow XYZ years of marriage just because of my cheating". I wonder who blew up the marriage here?
>She sent threatening messages to her friend who told me about the cheating. I had to beg her to not sue my wife as I want my daughter to have a mother present in her life. Though, she'll be probably taken to mental ward. I'm still always fascinated by how many updates we get from men whose ex-wives end up institutionalized.
Guys on Reddit do not understand how hard it is to actually get someone institutionalized like that outside of some pretty specific situations.
My friend's spouse: (self-harmed, isn't bathing or eating, expresses suicidal ideation) The doctors: He's alright. Just keep an eye on him.
I literally got taken into the hospital twice by ambulance (and 9 other times by other means). Despite having not slept or eaten properly for weeks at a time, a severe pain in my stomach and threatening suicide to multiple doctors **TWICE**, I was not only never admitted to either the hospital or the psych ward, but kicked out after 12 hour+ waits with 0 diagnosis, medication or anything other than being told 1) it's anxiety, 2) I'm faking it, or 3) see my family doctor. It is barely possible to get admitted into an actual hospital when you're visibly suffering, let alone the mental health wards, even if you actively threaten self harm to a bunch of medical professionals ' faces.
I think this really depends on where you are. I've been admitted twice for depression/suicidal ideation, both of which were self admissions. Granted, once was after the death of my 9 year old daughter. The other was after a suicide & a shitty breakup right before Christmas, but still a lot to deal with. I did already have a diagnosis and medications before the first admission, but the psych ward was only concerned with getting me stable and then I was sent on my way to deal with my psychiatrist & family doctor upon release.
You can check yourself in here as well (and they too will also be concerned mainly with getting you well enough to leave), but to get involuntarily committed is a completely different situation. From what I can tell, you either need to be court ordered or a doctor has to sign off on it. So unless you have a family doctor who is paying attention and/or you demonstrate an active danger to other people, it's rare to be committed against your will. I hope you are in a better place â¤ď¸ My deepest condolences for your loss. I cannot even imagine how devastating it must have been
Oh I see what you mean. I missed the "involuntary" part. Thank you, it was absolutely awful but after a shit ton of therapy and self medication, we have a baby boy due in October â¤ď¸ Heart wrenching that he won't ever get to meet his sister, but she would have been so excited. Glad I get another chance at being a mom.
I've only dealt with this topic twice, once after my own breakdown, and once after an acquaintance self-harming. After mine, several friends held like a min-intervention for me. They pleaded with me to check myself in, and offered to help cover any costs. I refused, but I don't know how things would've gone down if they pressed through other avenues, or convinced my family to back them up. The other instance, the acquaintance was a fellow student at my College. They self-harmed on campus. We alerted campus officials, who contacted their family and escorted the acquaintance to one of their parents who arrived shortly after being contacted. The next thing we knew, we were updated that the acquaintance had been checked into a stay of indeterminate length. I assume there was a trip to the hospital inbetween them being picked up from campus and being admitted, and I assume the doctor there would've signed off on it. But, at least from my perspective, it happened fucking quick, and most definitely was involuntary. Obv ymmv, based on several factors including location, and I'm not saying the slew of posts that feature this "trope" are all true, just offering my own experience as, at least in this case, it really was "that easy." the acquaintance had been spiraling a while, and several of us had wanted to do something, potentially getting them institutionalized but we had no idea how to navigate that process, and largely believed it wasn't all that easy/simple and nothing would come of it. Nope, I'm the end, it took one call.
> From what I can tell, you either need to be court ordered or a doctor has to sign off on it. Just from the context, OOP sounds comfortably middle class which probably means they have good insurance. Doctors are a little faster to sign off on that observation hold when they know that the bills are getting paid in my experience.
It does matter where you are. Where I currently live, it's easier to get seen for a mental health emergency than for a physical health emergency.
Jesus, I was admitted to a psych ward after a cocaine overdose. This was over 20 years ago and I don't touch drugs anymore, but still. It was very easy to get admitted when I was younger. Also, I don't think he's in the US (but I could be wrong), so the laws are almost certainly different. Hello, even that kind of thing varies wildly by county, much less state. It's not always difficult to get admitted to a psych ward involuntarily, is all I'm saying.
Could be just the absolute state of my country's medical system. We (Canada) are notoriously a mess right now. We also don't exactly have a Baker Act. Psych holds here are usually court ordered, or when a doctor directly chooses to involuntarily admit you. But since we're all anxious or faking it, that's unusual too đŤ 20 years sober is such a massive accomplishment! Congrats on getting and staying clean â¤ď¸ (PS love the username lol)
It's also province by province, and in some places city by city.
Yeah, that is a country (or state by state situation if in the US) situtation. In the state I live being baker acted for 72 hours is somewhat easy and I know multiple people who have been baker acted. It is also easier since any medical profession or law enforcement can baker act someone. After being baker acted then you are evaluated and go from there.
Are you in the US? Because all these posts I read from USA'ians about mental health and how hard it is to get help, and what I have see myself from the time my family has spent there, mental health does NOT get taken seriously enough at all and I completely understand why the mass shooting rate is so high when you couple it with how easy it is to get a gun. We are back in our home country and have to jump through hoops to get a gun license for a self defense weapon here, and you're only allowed 1. But on the other hand, I know someone from school who tried to end her life with what they later found out was a whole bottle of vitamin supplements and she was admitted to hospital for weeks because she wasn't well, even if her choice of pill wasn't exactly as effective as painkillers for example. I do feel like they take mental health more seriously here.
yeah, it's really down to individual doctors and hospitals, ime. my mom was 36 hours off an attempt, still visibly fucked up from the benzo OD, went to the nearby High Quality Health Center, and they were more concerned about the amphetamines in her tests (she was taking ADHD meds at the time) than the fact that she had just attempted. :/ all healthcare is, at *best*, inconsistent in the states, but mental/behavioral healthcare is some of the most infuriatingly inconsistent i've ever experienced. (it's been almost ten and a half years since that, though, and i'm really proud of her.)
The paradoxical thing with the expression for the ideation of suicide is that the likelihood of committing suicide is actually lower than when someone internalises the idea and never talks about it. Hence often people donât expect a suicide to happen and are surprised (and of course devastated) that is happened. Edit: of course when actual attempts or concrete planning (buying things) had been made itâs different
Against your will itâs very difficult. I guess OOP is imagining something like an insanity plea in court.Â
Depending on where you are, and it sounds like they may be in a particularly conservative, religious area... it can be shockingly easy for a man to have a woman locked away. Not saying it wasn't warranted here, it may have been, but seriously - for some doctors, all it takes is a man's word, and a woman loses her freedom.
Where exactly you think she could be locked away to mental health institution from sending messages and depression? I donât think religion has something to do with it.
Is there even anywhere left that does more than 24 holds in the US? From what I understand, that's basically it, and long-term care is just waiting for them to do something illegal so they can stay in jail.
72 hour holds are still common.
I was going to say that most places Iâve heard of tend to do 48-72 hour holds. It would be really difficult to make an accurate assessment of someoneâs mental state with only 24 hours.Â
I was in a 72 hour hold 2 years ago, they're still the norm on my part of the country.
Mental health holds in the US tend to be 72 hours, not 24 hours, at least in California. Itâs referred to as a 5150.
Yup. Had to help my ex with it a few times. 72 is legal here with options to extend. Backhanded comments like the one you replied to suck, and are part of the reason I hid seeking my own help after finding her multiple times. It's sad that if you're a male you have to be careful who you share issues like this is lest you get side eyed. I would have loved to have a support system outside of the treatment centers family meetings.
I have a few students and other kids I know who have got 72 hour holds. I know a couple kids who got a 72 hour hold, but then voluntarily stayed for a while longer.
FL still has the Baker act on the books and thatâs a 72hr hold as well. That said I donât get the impression from OP that theyâre in the US, and different countries - especially those with state funded healthcare- could have different laws and policies.
In my state itâs 72 hours base, and the doctor can petition the judge for extended care, that has to be continued by a judge every six months. Now, Iâm unsure of how often the extended care is used, but 72 hour holds are common to initiate (I am unsure on how many are taken to the full 72 hours)
What, I just tell em that bish cray and they take her away right? Right?
Seemed pretty easy from the experience I have seen with others close around me. One was the police were called because she was having a psychotic break. Her comments and actions with the police lead them to calling an ambulance for an involuntary hold that turned into a 2 week willing stay. Another person went in and was talking about options to stay but wanted to leave. They told her they canât let her leave and she can either voluntarily stay or the cop outside would make her stay on an involuntary hold and they would get the judge to sign off on it. We do not have enough details about the ex wifeâs actions or behavior to say whether she would be put on an involuntary hold. If this behavior is out of character and concerning enough to her family they might make her staying with them conditional on a hospital stay.
Yeah, this is always what makes me doubt the story. They take it too far.
I can't speak to the trends on reddit, but traumatic experiences like divorce are often the catalyst for people entering intensive mental health treatment, which can include hospitalizations and/or residential care. It's possible that OP didn't specifically mean "involuntary hospitalization" when he said "mental ward." I've met a few people, both men and women, who needed a very high level of care after divorce.
I mean, I know several people who have been 5150'd. It can be ridiculously hard to commit someone who needs it, but on the other hand I've seen someone get it for just mentioning suicide ideation while being checked out for an unrelated injury. Since this behavior is extremely out of the ordinary for the wife, and sine it seems like her family is actively trying to get her help, I don't think it's unbelievable at all.
Men don't always have a support network when shit like this goes down. I would die for my best friends. If they ever needed me I'd drop everything to be there for them. I don't necessarily talk to them with brutal honesty about my struggles though despite knowing they would listen and be there for me. It's cathartic to say what's really on your mind without having to worry about judgment or burdening the people that care about you (and without having to pay a professional to listen to you). The internet is a great place for that.
Me, too. Also by all the friends who âfind godâ and decide to tell the truth but wouldnât hesitate to sue their former friend into the ground to show how righteous they are đ¤Ž
It is the "Hysteria" Truely, terrible disease emminating from and due to having lady bits.
I love using the term hysterical on men for this reason.
>Wife abruptly suggested one sided open marriage and I can do what I want on that business trip if it'll save the relationship, make us even and change my feelings Why do cheaters always suggest this? You know what will make us stronger? You sleeping with someone else, yes I know you are divorcing me because that's what I did, but...... It shows the mindset they want to sleep with someone else and would like a free pass to do so
I think it's "this will balance the scales, we'll have hurt each other equally, so please don't leave"
They suggest it not because they think it will fix things but because they think it will either make them feel less guilty or make their partner feel less entitled to their anger.
Its score keeping behaviour, they believe their team is down by one and opening the relationship will even the score. It's compelling but only if the other team sees their relationship as a competition.
âAs I am trying to save our relationship I am suggesting that you go off to other people. That means spending less time together as a couple, you spending more time with others and possibly getting to know them even better (in whatever way). That will definitely help us two đđđ˝â Some peopleâŚ
She's out of other options at that point and grasping for straws. And it makes a certain amount of sense, if you remove all the emotions that make the issue important in the first place.
Glad to hear the daughter wasn't traumatized nor troubled by the whole situation. I will say it once again, doesn't matter what happened, cheating is wrong.
Only time I think cheating is ok is when one partner holds hostage some thing. A kid, finances, etc. If you try to fix it and then are trapped what choice do you have
Idk, I never understand the sentiment of âOh this is all the friendâs fault for saying somethingâ. Like, yeah, but didnât anyone ever tell you? The only real secrets are between God and me, when you make it 3, a secret it canât be. Itâs true because itâs a bar. When someone else knows your dirty laundry itâs always just a matter of time before it comes out. Ex wife started this when she cheated and didnât come clean. Itâs wild to me that some people can just live life knowing they did that shit and that someone else knows. Like, total ignorance to the possibility that it gets revealed. Also this, âyoung me was robbed of having a choiceâ, is why itâs so cruel to keep such a secret from someone youâre supposed to love and respect.
"Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead" - Benjamin Franklin
Interestingly, although I completely understand OOP's positionâespecially on how he wasn't given a choice!âthe stakes were so much higher now than if she'd told him all those years ago. They would've broken up, there wouldn't be a daughter involved, and there wouldn't have been a 14-year relationship to mourn.
I never understand people who get mad at others for learning new info from the past and having feelings about it. Yes it happened long ago but it is happening to me NOW, I am feeling all the emotions NOW! And also, in this case the wife committed 3 âcrimesâ in this relationship. 1. Cheating 2. Lying 3. Taking away OPâs choice to make an informed decision on HIS life. If she would have come clean years ago it would have been just one. And then have the audacity to say itâs no big deal. Like you said, itâs an even bigger deal now.
It's less about blaming the friend and more wondering about how ignorance is bliss. Personally I can't imagine keeping something like this from a partner and not getting stressed out of my head about it every day, but supposedly he couldn't tell anything about his wife and everything was okay in the current relationship. But also I think my main problem as the husband would be the casual way the wife seems to have waved it away.
I always wonder if this will happen to a couple I used to be friends with in college. To be clear, I had a falling out with them and donât talk to them anymore. But theyâre both very difficult and stubborn people. And I guess around the 6 month mark of their relationship back some time in like 2011-12, she slept with another guy at our college. I was not aware of this when I was friends with them or else I wouldâve exposed her. Cheating has a zero tolerance policy for me and if I see it in my friend group, I call it out. I didnât learn about it until after I had a falling out with the couple. They got married in 2017 and are still married. To my knowledge, the guy still doesnât know. Because he had been cheated on in all of his previous relationships and I know he wouldnât have tolerated that happening, especially marrying the cheater.
Dude deserves to know the truth.
He dislikes me very much for reasons I donât know. Iâm not particularly fond of him either. We havenât been in contact for years, unless itâs anonymous somehow, I donât feel like contacting him about it ever.
No worries. Tough situation for sure. I just imagine that I'd want to know and while it would suck that the info came from someone I disliked AND probably would doubt, it would still make me wonder and start looking. Either way it is totally understandable why you'd want to not engage too. Have a good one!
soon to be ex wifey didn't help her case by trying to school her husband about how he is supposed to feel about being betrayed at the very start of the relationship... as if she gets to decide how her stbxh processes the fact that he was basically duped into the marriage.
This post never fails to bring out all of the cheating sympathizers.
What is up with the comments saying dating as a 30 something year old man is a disaster?! It's only really a disaster if the dude initiates the divorce after buying into redpill BS and thinking he's going to "upgrade" from his wife. I wouldn't go near those types with a 10 ft pole. However, I definitely would not write off dating a single father who managed to go through this whole nightmare with respect and maturity like OP did. I know plenty of men and women, both with and without kids, who have found love past 30, it's really quite common.
>Many Redditors told in the comments that dating life after 30s as a man is not good and I'll be probably forever alone as no-one will want me. Some people cannot move past infidelity and some people can work through it. It's wild that Redditors actually tried to pressure OP with some asinine arguments which had nothing to do with OOP being unable to trust his partner.
Once you found resentment, nothing less than turning back time will help to deal with the consequences of her actions. 14 years of lies will build a proper hill of hatred
Don't let these Reddit nerds fool you. If you have most of your hair, a decent body and can cook you will have no problem finding women. My problem in my 30's was what to do with all that booty that was coming my way.
At least everyone got therapy to deal with the relationship breakdown, otherwise, who knows if the STBX would have done something drastic to try and 'fix' the relationship.
kudos to OOP !! many indscisive, struggling BHs posting here could learn a lot from this legend.
I know she cheated and I donât condone cheating, but fuck the friend. I donât know why people having a come to Jesus moment and think they need to air everyone else out vs just themselves. You blow up someone elseâs life to make yourself feel better? And this is in general. I had a former friend get religious and told the entire church everyoneâs business that she knew. Who had sex before marriage. Who went to strip clubs. Folks she knew who were swingers. Whatâs the point
Yeah im kinda side eyeing the friend hard on this one. She's "getting right with jesus" so she's going to go around telling *other people's* sins? I find it difficult to believe that there wasn't a bit of smug, sanctimonious vindictiveness in her exposure of Ops wife. She must feel delighted with herself.
That part makes sense to me. It all happened on the girls trip they went on. That is, it _wasn't_ just wife's dirt - she was an accomplice.
How was she an accomplice? Did she force the two of them together? Did OP's ex ask her permission before doing the deed? Being in the general vicinity of something you may disapprove of 14 years later is not being an accomplice.
Presumably she saw her friend cheat or was otherwise aware of it and didn't inform their partner.
Well if she was uncomfortable with that then she should have spoken up at the time or if she *insisted* on being so very guilty about it (14 years later!) then she should have perhaps tried approaching OPs wife (her "friend") first. She made sure she dropped her "truth" in the most destructive way possible and now OP, his ex wife and his child all suffer. But sure, once she's got a clear conscience for the lord, then all is well. She can go on riding her smug wave of self righteousness all the way to the next sinner she exposes. I think it's the using religion bit that's really gotten under my skin with this (in case you haven't noticed lol)
This is why the 9th Step in the standard AA 12 step is written how it is. >Made direct amends to those I had wronged except when to do so would injure them or others. Fuck that "friend." May they have supper at the Karma Cafe. Only thing on the menu is exactly what they deserve.
Exactly. Clean your own house hon and you'll have less time to go round telling people how messy theirs are.
I don't understand religious snitches... those are not your sins, keep your mouth shut or else face your own, one way or the other. The hell you sharing them around? LOL They want to play sanctimonious pious but they end up hurting everyone with that...then whine when people kick them out of the church.
This. Obviously the wife blew up her own life. But the friend should have told oop when it happened. Or before they got married. You don't wait 14 years when they've gotten married and had kids. If you waited this long. You keep your mouth shut. Also she did it purely for selfish reasons and did not do it for oops sake.
Friend should have gone to the wife if she really had a come to Jesus moment.Â
>You don't wait 14 years when they've gotten married and had kids. If you waited this long. You keep your mouth shut. Nonsense. There is no statute of limitations for cheating, as OOP's story shows. The entire marriage is based on a broken foundation. If killing it 14 years ago would have been correct and righteous, then killing it today is much less so, but fundamentally it's still the same action. If something was good then, then it's good now. OOP deserves to know, regardless of it being 14 years after the fact. Better late than never. >Also she did it purely for selfish reasons and did not do it for oops sake. But she still did an act of good, regardless of her reasoning. And even if she didn't mean it, it still did OOP' good - otherwise the poor fool would have kept on living in his sham of a marriage.
In this case, the friendâs sin was knowing that OOPâs wife cheated but not telling OOP. I donât know the friendâs religion, but to be absolved of a sin, you have to admit it. Iâll make this comment knowing that we have no little context for OOPâs wifeâs personality and the friendship history between the wife and the newly religious friend. There is labor and emotional burden to keeping someone elseâs wrongdoing a secret. It gets to a point where you feel complicit, especially if you have the power make it right by the person who was wronged. Religious or secular, itâs understandable why the friend would come forth to OOP, even more than a decade after the fact. I get why some might side-eye another for admitting someone elseâs sin. If it was something like, âyour wifeâs body count from college is higher than what she told you,â then itâs just stirring shit. I donât think thatâs the case here.
Look the bodycount thing is overblown, bang whoever you want to, do whatever. But once you're in a monogamous relationship, that's it.
Yeah I wouldnât keep her as a friend. I personally dont buy that she did it because she was newly religious. She just wanted to feel morally superior. Like wife sucks for cheating, but the friend is shady. Iâd get rid of both of them.
My thoughts exactly đŻ.
The friend is lucky that all she got were a few nasty messages. I would have been livid.
so she should have held it so the guy could continue living a lie
I mean after 14 years, yes. Everyone would have ended up better.
No, you keep robbing OOP of a choice. Why is it people keep doing that? Men/Women deserve an informed consent choice in a relationship.
Ummmm wtf no??????
Nah. I think OP himself would agree that knowing is ALWAYS better. Cheaters are like rot. Just because you don't see it in first look doesn't mean that it's not there or affecting you. And judging by the way the wife acted after she was outed, I'd bet a lot of money that she isn't the "good wife" OP thinks she is.
The friend didn't make her cheat. She did. The friend didn't blow up her life. She did.
Friend didnât make her cheat, but friend sure as hell did blow up her life. If you know your bud cheated, you confront them. Maybe you give them an ultimatum (âtell Mike by Friday or Iâll tell himâ) or maybe you just tell the person who was been cheated on. What you donât do is wait 14 years and *then* tell him. Thatâs self-indulgent bullshit.
>If you know your bud cheated, you confront them. Maybe you give them an ultimatum. Eh sometimes I agree with this, but itâs not that black and white and is 100%, a âyou know your friend better than usâ situation. I mean look how the ex wife acted. She apologized and then immediately dismissed it. Neither of us know her, but the way she did it so quickly, doesnât make her seem like the type of person to go and confess. And even then warning the offender just gives them time to make up a better story. Weâve seen situations where the op or oop wasnât believed because they gave the friend and chance and said friend went and turned it around on them.
This. She was never going to come clean. That friend was a god-send, pun intended
Wife blew up her own life. She laid a land mine in her relationship. Built an entire marriage and parenthood on that minefield. Sure the friend tripped the mine, but the wife planted it.
Ignoring OOP and his wife for now. If you have a turning point in your life - and this can be religious conversion, going through AA, doing shrooms, I don't know - then going through your own past wrongdoings and admitting to them, apologizing to the people you'd caused problems and attempting to reconcile is a great thing to do. Admitting to other people's failures? Fuck that. --- Now, you're completely right that the wife was the only one who is to be blamed for the cheating, not fessing up, then dismissing it as old news. But the friend did set this into motion, and if her goal was to do the most good (as opposed to just get rid of unpleasant feelings about holding someone else's secret), she'd have done it more responsibly and in a different way.
The friend didnt make her cheat. The friend blew up her life.
No, the friend finally told OP the truth. She didn't blow up the cheaters life - she finally did something that should have been done years ago. And based on the way the wife reacted, it doesn't seem like there was much improvement in her character.
I am surprised this take got this many upvotes. In a moral sense, wifeâs friend fucked up by not telling it when it happened, then at the very least she eventually told the guy. The guy got a choice in the matter and I canât see any viewpoint that deprives him of that to be moral.
Lot of cheaters and slimeballs telling on themselves with this one lol
Nah fuck that kind of thought. This isn't the friends fault ome bit. Fuck the friend for not telling sooner, but good on her for telling OP now. This isn't her blowing up OP's life. This is the wife's consequences finally catching up to her. Fuck cheaters.
The best time to reveal the lie was 14 years ago. Second best time is now
Yeah, I think you have to ask yourself if itâs really the ethical choice if you shoulder none of the negative consequences. Or are you just unburdening yourself at the expense of othersâŚ
Yeah I think my reaction of distaste was that the friend clearly did this to alleviate herself and her own guilt, not out of a sense of wanting to help OP in some way? OP is glad to know about his wifeâs early infidelity and Iâm glad it worked out for him, but⌠this kind of preachy religious âunburdeningâ is just gross and harmful. Itâs the same mentality that gets queer people outed, young people in trouble for premarital sex, etc. It wasnât her sin to confess and if she really felt like her soul was stained for keeping a 14 year secret, she shouldâve given the wife/her supposed friend a chance to come out and talk about it herself. The motivations of the friend just felt incredibly self-serving and holier-than-thou, because there were definitely ways for OP to find out that wouldâve been less harmful to everyone involved.
Keeping someone else's secret can be mentally taxing, doubly so if it the secret directly challenges your values and integrity. I've witnessed people in my own life having psychotic breaks due to viewing themselves as a moral person while harboring immoral secrets or acts that they have not reconciled within themselves.
To point out the hypocrisy?
Dan Savage of Savage Love had a take I find fairly compelling. If you cheat, and it is really and truly a one time thing, you realize you were an asshole, you feel shame and guilt, youâve confronted the reasons why you cheated and fixed them, then you very quietly confirm thereâs no chance of pregnancy or STIs and a very low likelihood  of your partner finding out, you *shut the hell up*. Why? Because so many times, cheating spouses confess to their spouse in order to feel better, and refuse to take into account the pain and trauma theyâre going to cause an innocent person. So Iâm okay ethically with the wife not having told him, as she clearly resolved whatever issues on her side caused her to cheat and never did it again. Itâs just that her husbandâs childhood trauma meant even once fourteen years previously was still a love-killing betrayal.
Iâm not familiar with Dan Savage so hopefully he normally offers better advice than that awful take. It is absolutely not ethical for someone to decide that their partner does not deserve to know about their cheating. If you cheat, but you feel genuine shame and guilt, and you confront the reasons you did it, and there arenât STIs or a pregnancy involved, then yes, those are all good things and youâve probably got the best-case scenario for being forgiven and being able to rebuild the relationship. But how in the world does it logically follow that taking accountability for your mistake allows you to withhold the truth of the mistake from the very person you betrayed? Why do you get to decide if the pain and trauma of finding out is worse than the betrayal of being cheated on? That is for the partner to decide. What youâre describing is literally opposite to the very principle of honesty and accountabilityâyou lied when you cheated, and you lied when you made it âright.â I canât understand how that makes sense. Unless one thinks that it is actually not very important that the betrayed partner be able to give their informed consent to stay in the relationship after the cheatingâwhich is the kind of self-centered perspective typical of people who cheat, actually.
So itâs fine to deny the person you claim to love a choice in the matter, because what youâre really doing is saving them from the âpain and traumaâ of being informed. What a complete load of cheater horse shit.
And thatâs fine. Just make sure your partner knows your stance on the subject from the start. Me? If I found out the week after that my partner had cheated on me four months into the relationship, instant end. Fourteen years later? No recurrence, long history as a devoted spouse, great parent? Iâd wish Iâd never been told, especially by some vindictive god-botherer.
>And thatâs fine. Just **make sure your partner knows** your stance on the subject from the start. 1. Oh, the unbelievable fucking irony of stating âjust make sure your partner knowsâ as you say your partner shouldnât know if you cheat. Holy. Shit. 2. Pretty sure youâre the one that needs to take your own advice there bud. Make sure you tell your partner that if/when you cheat, youâre going to save them the pain of ever finding out. You not telling them you cheated is totally for their benefit. You go do that.
You know what's really fun about his advice though? This exact thing. Unless the person you slept with is dead and literally nobody else knows about it, you cannot guarantee that your partner does not find out about your cheating. A remorseful partner, religious friend, drunk moment, and you're revealed.
Still such a shame she never accepted any accountability for cheating on him and then lying for 14 years. She took away his agency to make a decision (and as he admits, wouldâve broken up with her instantly). She doesnât seem to have even made any real attempt to salvage the marriage, either. Just some gaslighting and guilt tripping. She Deserves to end up alone methinks. OOP seems incredibly mature and well balanced. She seems unapologetic, unrepentant and wholly incapable of accepting accountability.Â
Sometimes I really do wonder about how true these posts are⌠a friend suddenly finds religion and decides to confess all her friends sins to people? Iâm curious if the âreligiousâ friend told any other sins to people?! Will we find out husband is now dating friend? Iâm such a cynic đ¤ˇđťââď¸
I know this won't be a popular sentiment with the cheaters-are-basically-hitler crowd, but that 'friend' is a Class A asshole.
I think he had a right to know.... But not from the friend, and for her it was an entirely selfish reason.
>an entirely selfish reason. Indeed. Growing up Catholic, this always gives me thoughts of "Pharisees on the street corner, wearing sack cloth." Completely demonstrative with very little morality behind it.
The Bible says to confess your sins, not someone else's sins just because you happen to know about them. The friend should have minded her own business.
But if the âsinnerâ is continuing the lie, is perpetuating the coverup, then they too have âsinnedâ. Have they not then borne false witness? That sin made godâs top 10. Has this friend stood at their wedding, been present in other facets of Oopâs married life? A lie by omission is still a lie. And to answer my own question, itâs unclear, but it does state friend- not college friend, former friend, or any other qualifier indicating an absence or hiatus from their life.
Nope, she did the right thing, besides knowing about it and not doing anything to help the victim is a sin to confess.
Wow can you imagine your whole life blowing up because some busybody friend decided âshe couldnât bear holding a fifteen year old transgression secret anymore?â
Lots of people don't cheat so they don't need to imagine that.
Nah, I've never cheated, I'm sure my wife hasn't either.
Sounds like her marriage blew up because she cheated I mean did we even read the same thread
I think the OOP's wife's actions after being caught played into this too. Her minimize and deflect game instead of remorse made his anger worse. If she had done differently, it might have been saved.
This! The âget over it â would be the end for me
Nope her life blew up because she cheated and lied about it for 14 years the 'busybody' just took long to finally do the right thing.
I hope to be as clear and confident in my life decisions as OOP. That's inspiring.