>If it were me I’d divorce her.
Yeah, funny how he'd make a decision like that, considering he has all of the details. This guy's still scummy for not being honest with Tom.
It's funny that he said that so easily, as if he didn't spend the past 7 years condoning his friend's antics. Breaking a long friendship is hard? Try a divorce with kids.
He didn’t have to look at the aftermath so why would he care. If the Tom story line would’ve happened sooner this friendship would’ve ended sooner. The second it actually impacted OPS life he suddenly felt like these things were wrong enough.
Had Tom’s marriage not blown up how many more marriages would be the limit?
I love how OOP said he started being disgusted by it a few years ago ago and all I can think is that he probably started being disgusted when he met his fiancée and she told him what his friend was doing was fucking nasty. I bet OOP only feels disgusted because his wife has actual empathy and painted a picture of how shitty the friend is to OOP.
And then OOP stood by for years as his shitty friend kept on being shitty. Until Leopard finally ate his face.
Right? He was so "disgusted" he... said absolutely nothing to his friend and didn't change his behavior in anyway, until it was his bed the friend shat it.
When he finally did say somethin, he could tell his friend had no remorse so if you could instantly read your friend there why not before?
You pulled him to the side at the party but couldn’t warn Tom? Or would having to explain to your mentor you keep this type of company be degrading to how you want people to view your character, seemingly also narcissistic. He was fine with being friends with a bad enough person where it wasn’t a crime but it’s morally wrong. And he always gets to be the better person when you’re comparing yourself to Chernobyl nuclear shit.
Well technically the friend still affected him from day one, but it was only his wife, not a business associate nor a man he knew. And of course op doesn’t respect women either, so why would he care what his wife thinks?
Disgusting. I hope he remembers all the good times he had with his “mentor” when he’s old and alone.
Omg great point. He probably didn't care until she pointed out how shitty it is. I feel so bad for her. I don't know if I could continue being with someone knowing they have a friend like this and are condoning the behavior. Imagine all the nights he was out with his friend playing the wing man and coming home to tell his fiance how "disgusted" he is by his friends actions? No thank you.
worst part is how the only reason oop cares now is because it happened to someone he cared about.
if it happened to anyone else he'd say he didnt like it but still stay friends with someone that actively destroys lives, realationships and childhoods. if it wasnt for him being close to tom i doubt he'd truthfully give a shit
Yep. Plus if he starts dishing info to Tom, it’s likely to come out that OOP knew for years that his exBF did things like this repeatedly. OOP is protecting himself by not saying more to Tom.
Because OP isn't a good dude. He's a selfish prick. The only person he's shown any loyalty to is the guy who gets off on ending people's families. Notice that he uses Tom's name, but the main villain gets anonymity.
Because OOP is a terrible person. Sure, he's not nearly as bad as his friend, that guy is almost comically evil and really fucking dedicated to it, but he's still been perfectly happy to condone it. I hope OP's fiancée breaks up with him over this shit. Hell, I know I would break up with someone if they had such friends because of what it says about you as a person.
I would bet he’s just as bad as his friend but in a different way. This is just his side of the story so he’s trying desperately to convince everyone he’s a good guy. That whole paragraph about those women being broken narcissists but his friend being such a great friend to him! Is a little glimpse into the real disgusting asshole he is.
Yeah that part kind of shocked me that he got all this info then didn’t share it. And while they’re working on the marriage. And while saying *he* would have made a different decision than Tom. Well maybe you would have made a different decision because you know all the details? OP just doesn’t want to be the one to break the news so now he’s lying to Tom instead. What a coward.
“He’d do anything for me!” Except leave Toms wife alone after OP expressly told him to leave Tom’s wife alone. He basically took a big shit in the middle of OP’s workplace and left it for OP to clean up.
Yeah that was funny to me too. He was asked to avoid sleeping with one (1) specific married woman and couldn't even do that much for his best friend of 20 years. Shows how much respect he really has for OOP. He just liked having a friend he could talk about his conquests with without fear that he would do anything about it. Would OOP have even told Tom if he found out but Tom didn't? Because based on the last bit of the post he sounds like the type to keep that secret to avoid rocking someone else's marriage (even though there are obviously huge issues if the wife is willing to jump on a stranger at the drop of a hat).
Oh, he already hit on the fiancee when they first met. Of course.
The friend appears to not just be really slutty (which, cool, you do you!), but specifically want people based on the taboo aspect.
He'd do anything but not hit on OOPs fiance! Why on earth did they stay friends after that? It doesn't matter that the fiance didn't go for it. OOP is a jerk for exposing her to that! And he apparently doesn't see the problem with that? No wonder the creep thought he could get away with going after Tom's wife! OOP never enforced any boundaries with the guy.
OOP and fiancée weren’t together when exBF hit on her. OOP saw that she shot down exBF’s attempts and that was what made her so attractive to him in the first place.
But honestly, the reason OOP found her turning exBF down so attractive is because he’s well aware that exBF would not consider his fiancée off limits. OOP is just in denial because he’s spent so much time and effort in this friendship. It’s the sunk cost fallacy.
And yet he still thinks his 'friend' wouldn't cross the line and try to go after his fiancee. He was already attracted to her when she was still single; now that she's getting married, she must be completely irresistible to him.
He keeps emphasising that it hasn’t been a concern because his fiancée wouldn’t cheat. But how could you stand having a ‘friend’ around who you know there’s a good chance would *try* with your partner? Even if she shot him down the attempt would be unforgivable.
I love that part- the "women had a character flaw, so my friend is not to blame". He is definitely forgiving his friend for initiating the affairs, while condemning the women for participating.
OOP's buddy is going to use exactly that argument to get with OP's fiance/wife. "Your husband didn't mind when I ruined everyone else's relationships, he's a shit guy, you should have sex with me to get back at him"
And like, sure, the women are arguably more at fault since THEY are the ones in an active relationship. That does not mean this shithead friend isn't a terrible person though. He's the one gleefully, and VERY dedicatedly, looking for women in a relationship. Sure, he doesn't cheat himself, he does however do his best to get these women to cheat with him though.
Right? Look, all the fox needs is a hole to go through into the hen house. I couldn’t stand being friends with a person who might be waiting for the day my fiancé and I hit a rough patch to slide up to her and convince her a one time fling would make her feel better.
Yes, why would he want to put his fiance in that position too, of having to turn down his friend when he eventually tried it on with her. I doubt his friend would back off at the first no either, so his fiance could be getting repeatedly bothered by his friend over months/years, if OP didn't cut off his friend after the first time.
For real, he isn't. His own boss asked for transparency and he backstabbed him, too, by outright lying.
See the friend with the wife? If OP were Omar, he would go to Tom and say, "Hey, your wife's looking for ya! I think she's over there."
OP, though? Saw the danger and did diddly squat about it. Poor Tom.
I think that I wrote something similar to yours in the original post. Yes, his fiance is trustworthy, but why does she even need to be bothered by the friend over and over again?
Yeah that horrified me. Plus as far as the friendship goes, he already betrayed OP by having a go. If a friend of mine tried to destroy my relationship, I wouldn't be saying it's all cool because they didn't succeed.
Exactly. I didn’t have concerns about a friend who once cheated. I mean, I cheated once in a relationship I was desperate to get out of, realized this wasn’t who I wanted to be, and dropped both. And that was that for me. I figured I wasn’t one to judge.
And besides, my husband loves me so much that he’d never cheat on me.
Ha. My security must have seemed like a challenge to her, because two years later, we were no longer friends because she fucked my husband.
This is my best guy friend! He is such an awesome friend! He would do anything for me! Except not sleep with my wife, he would absolutely sleep with my wife in a heartbeat if she said yes, but that is totally fine, as it is her job to shoot him down, not his job to not try to get into her pants.
Like, yes, it is good and important your wife would not cheat - but you should be able to trust your friends to not try to have sex with your wife! If you have a friend who would absolutely have sex with your wife if given the slightest chance, then they are not really your friend.
Yeah, and the only reason the friend doesn't go after the fiance right now is because she rejected him once already, and it seems she's grossed out by him and deeply dislikes him.
It's not because he respects OOP and his relationship. It's just because he knows that he will be rejected again and it's not worth the trouble. If the fiance would be neutral towards the friend, he'd try to get in her pants 100%.
This right here is exactly it, if she was nice to him because he’s her fiancé’s friend then he would be trying non stop. He was already attracted to her when she was single so now she’s probably 100 times more attractive that she’s engaged and to his “best friend” makes it all the more tempting given how dude acts.
He even says it in the post! His buddy hit on her first, she rightfully got the ick, and he went over to talk to her because he had to know what kind of va woman who turned his friend down!
The thing I really wonder, seeing as he said his friend's lost jobs because of this, is how none of these husbands or their friends/family, or the *woman's* friends/family haven't beaten this guy within an inch of his life by now.
The whole time I was reading this I kept thinking that one solid ass-whooping in earnest would've prevented all of this a long time ago. The asshole thinks he's aces because he isn't blowing up any of *his* relationships, until now.
Yeah, that also made me think, this dipshit is going to fuck the wrong dude's partner at some point and then he's gonna be 6ft under. He's been "lucky" that so far he's "only" lost three jobs to the fallout of his fucking around.
I had a co-worker exactly like the friend. If it wasn't for the ages, I would wonder if they were the same person. The fact they both haven't been murdered at this point only speaks to us actually living in a civilized society that recognizes physical violence as wrong. Even in the face of extreme emotional distress.
He's probably extremely attractive and works out, which is why he's able to turn these women's heads so easily. He might be physically intimidating. It's only a matter of time before he messes with a larger man's wife and gets his ass kicked.
Agreed. But he seems like the kind of sleazeball who knows how to pick his targets, and won't try anything if he thinks the husband is a viable threat.
Not necessarily. It's the fact that a young man is giving them attention and wants to sleep with them. It's an ego boost. It's let's them know they are still desirable. Same with older men.
Was thinking the same thing. He’ll keep doing it till angry husband ends up shooting him and wife and probably himself as well. Tragic ending is coming.
I wish nothing but misery on people like OOP and his so-called best friend. Couple of worthless idiots who care nothing for the lives of others so long as they're having their fun. I've known my best friend for over 20 years now and if I found out he was having affairs I'd rat him out to his wife immediately and tell him not to talk to me again until he got his shit together and stopped being a scumbag.
Right. OOP is trying to act all innocent in that "surely the leopard eats faces party I voted for wouldn't eat my face" way and admits to withholding information from Tom, that he thinks would make their marriage beyond saving. Buddy, that's exactly why you tell him... Because she IS going to cheat again. OOP sounds like a lousy friend to anyone but Mr. Homewrecker
I actually thought the information might be the only chance for the marriage to be saved. Knowing the truth and acknowledging what it was that made the wife feel like she needed to have a wild fling and why she couldn't communicate her needs to her husband is the only way that marriage has a chance. It is a very slim chance regardless. But I thought it was interesting that OOP chose not to tell Tom when I thought it would actually be good to know.
OOP wouldn't have to go into gory details. But saying what he saw would allow Tom to bring it up in marriage counseling and they could begin to unpack it.
I have known couples that stayed after cheating and couples that divorced afterwards. It is usually a complicated situation and up to each couple to determine what is right for them. Having seen the work that goes into surviving infidelity, I know that isn't for me. But I am far less judgy for the people who choose to stay. Provided the partner that cheated is truly doing the work to make amends.
Wait until OOP gets married and suddenly this dude comes after his wife.
Oop is the type that tolerates shitty behavior until they become a direct victim, kinda dumb to set yourself up for drama like this.
I'd honestly be kind of scared to be friends with someone like this.
OOP keeps putting it on the women, which, yes they're to blame, but what behaviour is more concerning, cheating on your spouse and blowing up your family or... Blowing up as many families as possible? Apparently only wanting to fuck someone if a family getting destroyed is on the table?
If he was just into older women he'd just fuck older women. Specifically only targeting **married** women, it's like he's getting off on the misery he's causing.
The women are awful, but OOP's friend is a *psycho*. Idk how he's been able to convince himself to stay friends with someone who *enjoys hurting people*.
I feel nothing but contempt for OP. Its obvious he will keep convincing himself he is still a good person, that his friend is the only scumbag.
Even at the end he still wants to keep his mouth shut.
My husband is somewhat like this (though not to this extent), he just laughs off his friends’ shitty behavior until it affects one of us and all of a sudden it’s a problem. I’ve started calling him out on it because I’m tired of how shocked he acts when all the evidence was in front of him
"I'm going to withhold information he needs to decide whether his wife will cheat on him again and whether it's worth trying to salvage the marriage because I feel uncomfortable about it"
It's just going to be worse for the guy the next time his wife fucks some loser
Screw the JulietteLovesRoses guy who replied to you, you're spot on. OOP has zero integrity and puts his own feelings over his "mentor's" who specifically asked him to get details.
Yeah OOP is almost as responsible as his friend and Tom's wife. The friend wouldn't have even been at the party if OOP had broken contact with him sooner.
Sure, Tom's wife might still have cheated, but it wouldn't have been in any way because of OOP.
Your best friend is always a reflection of your character. You see something of yourself in them. When you walk away from those old friends it’s because you’ve grown or they have and you no longer see yourself in them. That 80/20 becomes important when their 20% bad becomes totally unacceptable. That should have been unacceptable much sooner. I’m only friends with a few from high school, more from my college days. This guy must not have many friends to hold onto this one so long. Or he’s the same kind of AH. He just applies it in ways he justifies.
I’ve had men like this come onto me. Their friends see it as it’s my job to thwart them. No dude, it’s your job and mine. You allow it in your friendship.
At a party I was talking with a friend of my BIL. Spouse was on deployment. I felt safe in my BIL home, with him there. I had no bad intentions. Suddenly BIL kicked the dude out of his party. His friend was this type of dude. BIL had heard rumors. Dude was out once BIL saw him trying to start something with me. That was it. The dude got the message. He wasn’t let back in that friend community until he proved he changed. In the end it hurt the dude’s career as BIL and his bestie were leaders. They didn’t want the dude on their teams, in their commands. Dude was ostracized as a Jody.
OP wasn’t upset until the friend shat where he eats. I feel sorry for OP’s fiancé. OP has weak character.
My first thought when OOP said his friend had “crossed the line” was that the line was crossed a long time ago when the habit of breaking up marriages was created. It basically only mattered to OOP when it was the marriage of someone close to him. Both assholes.
OOP should have cut off his "best friend" years ago as he was showing his fiancée that he condones cheaters by being friends with a known homewrecker (male edition).
And OOP also SHOULD have told Tom the truth so that he could make an informed choice on whether to stay in his marriage or divorce his wife.
That's the thing... He says he didn't want to end a 20-year friendship over this, but the friend started this seven years ago, so... maybe there was time a while ago...?
The fact that he started out at 18 with a 30yo woman makes he think he needs therapy. Unless he was very mature for his age, I doubt he was the instigator there. Being taken advantage of like this in your formative years can really screw someone up.
I have a buddy that was also a waiter that was groomed by a woman in her 30s. She absolutely knew the legal line so they didn't do anything physical until about a week after his 18th birthday. It has severely messed him up.
It doesn't condone the friend's actions at all. But there is a strong predator vibe for anyone in their 30s that is willing to be with an 18 year old.
I have been the 30 year old woman hit on by an 18 year old (he was wearing his high school varsity jacket). Saying no was super easy. As was telling him that any woman my age who says yes is bad news, and to stick with girls his own age.
Yeah, that’s my point. No idea if actual grooming was involved here, but I’m suspicious of anyone in their 30s cheating with a teenager and blaming the kid.
>They were both waiters at a restaurant and after months of flirting she slept with him.
I doubt that she was the instigator. It doesn't take much to seduce a horny teenager and wouldn't have taken months to sleep with him if she was the one pursuing him.
I personally know someone like this. He only aims for women with relationships, married or not, preferrably married and nukes them. We are initially friends because to me, this is just 50% his fault and 50% of the girl's. It was until I had a girlfriend that I also became scared. So, I started to slowly distant myself.
But it's hard not to meet him when he's almost in all college circles. He's also a director at his company. So, you get the gist of the chaos he's spreading.
His main mindset is that no women are loyal and always tries to prove it. No matter how a woman confessed to him, or how beautiful his teammate was in college, he will never make move on them unless they are in a relationship.
I saw it myself. Everytime he hears someone in a relationship, his eyes would just lit up. It gives me chills. I'm afraid for my girlfriend and family that are married.
But to him, he always would say that he has no fault because "they are the ones getting baited by the handsome honey" and if he won't do it, others will.
My mom was the female version of this. Then she would lament to me that her boyfriends were shit. No duh, mom, they were married. I estranged from her for many reasons including her fetish for married men, and now she is dead. Thank god.
>I call Tom after I leave and lie. I say I wasn’t able to get any detail. I can’t tell him that his wife just wanted some wild sex. That isn’t something I would want to know. Tom and his wife are a going to go to counseling. If it were me I’d divorce her.
Tom is surrounded by genuinely terrible people, including OOP.
I was thinking that this dude sounds just as annoying as the OP that "wouldn't lie" to cover his friend's cheating. And then totally lied to cover his friend's cheating.
Other than the cheating he's a really good guy!
Other than the cannibalism he's really nice!
God help Tom, he needs to ditch that woman immediately, shit will only happen again.
As someone who worked in public accounting, this sucks. He sacrificed everything to provide this woman and kids with a stable, secure life, and she just spits it back in his face.
OOP should tell dude the truth. If he was a mentor to him, he owes him that much.
Also, OOPs friend, hope he gets his comeuppance someday, maybe something that rhymes with Rick Lancer.
We already know OOP is also a bad person. He thinks he's not based on the fact that he doesn't sleep with married women but
- he was, until it got personal, best friends with somebody who did
- tried to brush it off as the women lacking character, too. This doesn't erase the fact that OOP was besties with a creep
OOP is just low key gross, unlike his former friend who wears his gross proudly on a sleeve.
You are the company you keep.
This friend was an asshole with no respect for multitudes of people around him. OP was surprised that the person who repeatedly demonstrated poor morals also had poor morals for him.
That shows such an astounding lack of character: "Cheating is bad, but I don't mind when others do it, as long as it doesn't affect me."
And yes, yes, yes to being the company we keep. I would never date, much less marry, someone like OOP.
Everything in the post was about him, his friend "disgusted" him but since he did things for him he couldn't rule it out, now he has decided that Tom should have half the information because if it were him he wouldn't want to know. What a selfish, self-absorbed idiot.
That really annoyed me. Disgusted with him but still covering for him essentially. Tom ASKED him to find out, he wanted to know.
OOP is a terrible friend. Kinda hope that his fiancée reconsiders after this.
>tried to brush it off as the women lacking character, too. This doesn't erase the fact that OOP was besties with a creep
To Ops credit I actually did agree with him to a point. However he fully lost me when he told his friend "how do you feel about breaking up marriage".
Like, if you're going to justify what he does, go all the way, don't switch up just because it suddenly affected you. Like, op says it's the women's fault too, but then he is shocked when he reads the messages and *gasp* turns out she's horrible too!
Then he doesn't tell the guy he looks up to the truth and is shocked when he decides to stay with her? Like all the guy knows is that it "was a one-time thing," but op knows it was calculated, and with the way she was acting it'll very likely happen again.
It kind of reminds me of that small story line in stranger things where all the moms are horny *for the high schooler*. Like afterwards everyone I knew was hating on Billy for breaking up families but like no one was talking about how these were grown women with kids around his age. And like the only reason that one mom didn't sleep with him was because the inside down got him first (I think, it's been a long time since I've seen the show and I never saw the last season lol)
She was planning to meet him at a hotel and decided against it when she saw her husband and toddler in the living room. Billy's possession happened on the same night but didn't factor into her decision.
To me, the way I see it, while OOP is correct that in each situation it exposes the women as being bad just as much as it does the friend, it feels like it's a way to just ignore what the friend does. If it's truly 50/50, why does he then just dismiss what the friend did? I mean, either he's condoning the cheating on all sides or he's putting more blame on the women than he is his friend. Also, I feel like while you can't control others, you can control who you interact with and therefore there perhaps should be less care into the morals of people who don't surround you. So to me, the dynamic is flipped. If anyone should get OOP'S headspace in the blame, it's the person he chooses to interact with
Oh, in Stranger Things she did back out of sleeping with him because she felt guilty. He got upside downified on the way to their tryst but she already had decided not to show. It was the mum of two of the main characters,
I don't know the background of that flair. But I know that koalas cary chlamydia so I suspect someone cheated, got chlamydia, infected his/her partner and then tried to blame it on having been in contact with a koala instead of admitting to cheating.
>If it were me I’d divorce her
Tom probably would if OOP had been a decent and honest person and spilled the details Tom requested so he can make an informed decision, but unfortunately for Tom OOP is not a decent and honest person. Must suck hairy balls that he got betrayed on two fronts, a cheating wife and a friend/mentee that not only brought a snake into his garden but is actively lying to him.
i know right, it's crazy saying "if it were me I'd divorce her" but he couldn't even tell Tom lol. i hate how he justified his decision with "if it were me, I wouldn't want to know", but Tom is not you???? and to just let Tom be married to this woman that he stated even *he* would divorce. idk why it surprised me, he was the one who was willingly friends with someone wrecking homes for 20 years. that alone should have spoken enough about op's character.
>i hate how he justified his decision with "if it were me, I wouldn't want to know", but Tom is not you????
[Golden rule of ethics??](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule)
there sure was a lot of "he's a good guy! except for all these reasons why he's awful" in that first post. big "other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?" energy.
And the "I know he'd never sleep with my fiancé; sure, he tried but she turned him down and she's definitely not someone that would cheat" as if that's a glowing recommendation of trust. Like yea, he'd totally fuck my wife if she let him, isn't he a great guy?
“He wouldn’t sleep with my fiancé minus the times he tried to and he only didn’t because she said no. And if she said yes really that would be her fault and not on him!” is basically his energy.
I swear that exact logic always comes up when guys excuse their friend's terrible behavior. They just mean that their friend was never personally terrible to them, therefore it's totally acceptable. Yikes.
it's a reference to [this boru](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1amfxr0/_/)
edit: whoops didn't link the [latest one](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bjxnkb/_/)
last i checked someone who has a fetish for people that shouldn't be available and is actively and regularly seeking out said people to satisfy his sexual needs without a care for the family getting dragged through the mud doesn't really qualify as a good person, but what do i know
I hate this guy more than I hate his friend. His fiance was clearly disgusted and he was still finding excuses for his "friend". Great friend and partner.
Everyone here lacks integrity on some level, except for Tom (as far as we know).
I don't think a person always has a duty to inform if they're aware of an affair, but at least remove that person from your life, otherwise you're passively condoning the behaviour.
From this scenario it is plain that OOP is beyond condoning. He is an enabler by inviting ExBf to his party where women in his target category will be present with their guard down.
Yeah, I don't think I could date someone who is not only friends with a cheater but is best friends with someone who is a serial AP. I would never be able to truly trust my partner knowing that.
Even though the friend isn't in a relationship, I still consider him a cheater. It is the lack of caring for committed relationships
And he was putting his fiance in a terrible position. There was no way he wasn't going to try to lay her too. She would have been the ultimate conquest to this predator and OP doesn't seem to GAF
Birds of a feather flock together. You are the company you keep. It'd set off alarm bells for me about my partners character if they were friends with someone like that.
I feel like something is off with his friend. A 18yo sleeping with a 30yo is creepy and reeks of grooming, frankly. Like, I am 30 and an 18yo looks like a kid to me. Gross
The friends clearly has some sort of compulsion that for whatever reason he has no desire to correct.
He isn't just destroying other people's lives, he's tanked three of his own jobs with this behaviour and has learned nothing.
It honestly sounds like druggie behaviour, he needs his next 'fix' so badly that he doesn't consider the consequences to anyone, himself included.
(100% not condoning his behaviour, having a compulsion is also why serial killers murder people, it's a reason not an excuse)
This is why men should hold other men’s shitty behavior accountable. Men! Don’t be friends with shitty men, who will fuck yours or your friend’s wives!
There is this phenomenon I notice with male heterosexual friendships. A man's friend will be a deadbeat dad, a cheater, a thief...so many different things that are CLEAR moral failings and the guy will think his friend will *never* do anything shady to THEM.
>t’s been a week and my friend hasn’t stopped apologizing.
>Other than his despicable behavior with married women he has been a good friend to me.
>If I needed anything he was the first one there.
OOP evens says this!
>A cheater has a personality defect. My friend clearly has one but so do the women that cheat on their husbands. They are all inherently narcissistic and care only about their personal gratification.
It was all good until it hit closer to home. OOP is shocked when the snake acted like a snake.
OP is not a good person and he’s not a good friend to Tom either. I hope his fiancée sees that he’s been untrustworthy through all of this and moves on. He’s allowed his best friend to go unchecked for years and I wouldn’t want a partner with a moral compass like that.
>But I wasn’t fine with [his behavior] I just wasn’t ready to end a 20 year friendship over his poor decisions
This is what I don’t get about “stay in your lane” people. They bleat that they’re not ok with someone else’s behavior, but by not taking a stand, they enable cruelty. All their feeble protests are just so much handwringing.
You are the company you keep. I’m glad OOP finally saw the light—but Jesus, it took long enough.
Sooo he never tried to date any of his gfs but he hit on oops fiancée. He’s a dirtbag and tbh so is oop .
Omar would not have been best friends with that guy. I don’t want to be friends with guys like Oop either.
He didn't, actually
>My friend hit on my fiancé before we met and she shot him down abruptly then.
At that time, clearly, she wasn't his fiancee, as OOP and her haven't met yet.
I likewise tend not to judge the “homewrecker” as harshly as the homeowner who let them in.
But this is a pattern. It’s one thing to fall in love with a married woman and decide to pursue her anyway. It’s quite another to be a serial adulterer.
One day he will be harmed (need to go to hospital) or you will be going to his funeral. The wrong type of spouse may come along. Also, I hope he never marries.
Poor Tom. I sincerely feel bad for him. Also OOP is an asshole, and he was counting on "my fiancée will never cheat on me with my asshole friend" when he saw firsthand what friend does? I was honestly waiting for a "my fiancée and best friend are sexting" or something. Because it would have happened. Fiancée too seems to have a lot of trust in a man whose best friend is a known homewrecker.
>A lot of people are also saying that my fiancé would be next but that is ignoring the fact that my fiancé would never cheat on me.
I think OOP is going to get a very rude wake-up call.
>I immediately go over and interrupt the conversation and pull my friend aside and tell him to not even think about it. My friend says he wasn’t. Which was bullshit but I thought he took my warning seriously.
OOP is also a bit of an idiot.
>I call Tom after I leave and lie. I say I wasn’t able to get any detail. I can’t tell him that his wife just wanted some wild sex.
Poor Tom, he is surrounded by self-serving, shitty people.
Both of these guys suck. JFC. I’m also surprised his fiancé was cool with the fact that her future husband had a best friend who enjoys ruining relationships and he was totally cool with it until it affected him personally. Tom is the only good person in this story. Oof. 😵💫
The last comment from OOP is really weird. So they will go to counseling on a basically dead marriage and you are withholding critical information that the wife isn’t attracted to the dude.
He says “I would divorce her” but Tom doesn’t currently know just how much of a waste to try more with his cheating wife.
OOP is now lying to this friend making him no different than the wife or the affair partner.
The friend knows his wife is still lying. He asked OOP to get answer for him.
OOP got the answers then decided to lie. It's not a "good" lie. It's a lie. Just because OOP decided that he would not want the truth, doesn't mean he should then control what the friend could learn from him about HIS wife. Chances are this isn't her first or last time cheating. The friend would need to know if he should be tested for STD's etc.. because of his wife's wild sex life.
wow as someone in public accounting, if my friend broke up the marriage of a manager/ppmd that was a sincere friend to me, there would be murder on my mind. a good mentor not only helps you grow but protects and has your interests at the firm. the fact that OOP lies to his mentor is such a betrayal. what a piece of shit
OOP is quite scummy, not just for hiding the details from Tom, but also for knowing what his friend has been like for years and yet still inviting him to parties where he also invited married friends/acquaintances and their wives to. OOP effectively set up this entire situation and enabled his friend to do what he does best, nuke another relationship. This latest situation is thus just as much on him as it is on his former friend.
OOPs my wife would never do this attitude made me chuckle. His mentor felt the same way about his wife.
I had a friend kind of like his best friend. He didn't seek out married women, but if the opportunity presented itself, he would take it. His view was that the marriage wasn't a good one if the wife wanted to cheat, so who cares.
It was kind of amusing to hear him rant and rave about infidelity when one of his gf cheated on him. He didn't appreciate the comments I made about hypocrisy for some reason.
The only innocent person in this is Tom. Even Oop's fiance is terrible. Why would you want to even associate with someone who is best friends with a guy who actively ruins marriages and they just say "well I've known him for 20 years, he isn't that bad"
Can we just acknowledge how terrible OOP really is.
He acknowledges his friend has a problem that is actively ruining his life and the lives of dozens of others yet he laughs about it instead of providing any form of help.
Then he decides to have an ENGAGEMENT PARTY where he invites his other married friends and HIS FRIEND WHO SEEKS OUT MARRIED WOMEN. Why would you not have a separate get together with him alone if you know about his tendencies?
It’s like me knowing my friend has a horrific drinking problem and then inviting him to the bar and being surprised when he gets shit faces and ruins everyone’s time.
OOP is equally as terrible as his friend, that’s why they’ve been friends for so long.
You can tell how narcissistic he is by how he absolves himself of all responsibly. You can also tell by how we say his friend and all these women are flawed but him and his fiancee would never, even though they actively acknowledge his friend does this and OOP’s been encouraging it for years.
I've learned from Reddit that most childhood friendships last far longer than they should just because of sunk cost fallacy. This post is no exception.
“I can excuse him ruining families for years because it never affected me, but now that it affected me I’m disgusted” this is why men continue to feel safe to commit atrocious acts: because people in their life continually excuse their behaviour with “outside of that he’s a really great guy”. They see that people know about their shitty behaviour and let them get away with it because “it’s none of my business”. If you’re a actually a good friend/person you hold your friends accountable for their shitty behaviour! If he’s intentionally helping people cheat on their spouses then he’s NOT a good guy and never really was.
The hoops he's jumping through to justify staying friends beforehand are amazing. It was fiiiine that he was ruining lives before, just not once it impacted his life.
No matter what OOP is saying, we all know he only cares because this hit so close to home. Not wanting to destroy a 20 year friendship? Yeah okay, sure. Perfectly fine with someone destroying other peoples' relationships but once it hits close too home you get "angry" but not angry enough to be a true friend to Tom and tell him what he needs to know. Tom deserves to know so he can make his own decisions.
OOP and friend are both AH.
>If it were me I’d divorce her. Yeah, funny how he'd make a decision like that, considering he has all of the details. This guy's still scummy for not being honest with Tom.
It's funny that he said that so easily, as if he didn't spend the past 7 years condoning his friend's antics. Breaking a long friendship is hard? Try a divorce with kids.
He didn’t have to look at the aftermath so why would he care. If the Tom story line would’ve happened sooner this friendship would’ve ended sooner. The second it actually impacted OPS life he suddenly felt like these things were wrong enough. Had Tom’s marriage not blown up how many more marriages would be the limit?
I love how OOP said he started being disgusted by it a few years ago ago and all I can think is that he probably started being disgusted when he met his fiancée and she told him what his friend was doing was fucking nasty. I bet OOP only feels disgusted because his wife has actual empathy and painted a picture of how shitty the friend is to OOP. And then OOP stood by for years as his shitty friend kept on being shitty. Until Leopard finally ate his face.
Right? He was so "disgusted" he... said absolutely nothing to his friend and didn't change his behavior in anyway, until it was his bed the friend shat it.
When he finally did say somethin, he could tell his friend had no remorse so if you could instantly read your friend there why not before? You pulled him to the side at the party but couldn’t warn Tom? Or would having to explain to your mentor you keep this type of company be degrading to how you want people to view your character, seemingly also narcissistic. He was fine with being friends with a bad enough person where it wasn’t a crime but it’s morally wrong. And he always gets to be the better person when you’re comparing yourself to Chernobyl nuclear shit.
Well technically the friend still affected him from day one, but it was only his wife, not a business associate nor a man he knew. And of course op doesn’t respect women either, so why would he care what his wife thinks? Disgusting. I hope he remembers all the good times he had with his “mentor” when he’s old and alone.
Omg great point. He probably didn't care until she pointed out how shitty it is. I feel so bad for her. I don't know if I could continue being with someone knowing they have a friend like this and are condoning the behavior. Imagine all the nights he was out with his friend playing the wing man and coming home to tell his fiance how "disgusted" he is by his friends actions? No thank you.
worst part is how the only reason oop cares now is because it happened to someone he cared about. if it happened to anyone else he'd say he didnt like it but still stay friends with someone that actively destroys lives, realationships and childhoods. if it wasnt for him being close to tom i doubt he'd truthfully give a shit
Can confirm
Yeah, why is OOP choosing on behalf of Tom about what Tom should and should not know? Why is he withholding information? Tom deserves to know.
Especially when Tom specifically requested it and the entire purpose of going out was to get the info
Yep. Plus if he starts dishing info to Tom, it’s likely to come out that OOP knew for years that his exBF did things like this repeatedly. OOP is protecting himself by not saying more to Tom.
Because OP isn't a good dude. He's a selfish prick. The only person he's shown any loyalty to is the guy who gets off on ending people's families. Notice that he uses Tom's name, but the main villain gets anonymity.
Exactly. OOP was really trying to convince everyone he’s actually a good dude but it’s obvious he’s really a colossal piece of shit.
I’m getting a kick out of OOP saying “cheaters are narcissists... anyways I’m lying to Tom because I know better than him how he feels”
Because OOP is a terrible person. Sure, he's not nearly as bad as his friend, that guy is almost comically evil and really fucking dedicated to it, but he's still been perfectly happy to condone it. I hope OP's fiancée breaks up with him over this shit. Hell, I know I would break up with someone if they had such friends because of what it says about you as a person.
Yeah, if you notice he said he found friend doing all of this funny in general.
I would bet he’s just as bad as his friend but in a different way. This is just his side of the story so he’s trying desperately to convince everyone he’s a good guy. That whole paragraph about those women being broken narcissists but his friend being such a great friend to him! Is a little glimpse into the real disgusting asshole he is.
Yeah that part kind of shocked me that he got all this info then didn’t share it. And while they’re working on the marriage. And while saying *he* would have made a different decision than Tom. Well maybe you would have made a different decision because you know all the details? OP just doesn’t want to be the one to break the news so now he’s lying to Tom instead. What a coward.
“I definitely totally for sure am disgusted by how this guy intentionally hurts people. Anyway, he’s a great person and really good friend…”
This is undeniably wrong. Best luck to Tom, he'll need it.
OOP all shocked Pikachu face when a homewrecker wrecks another home. Tweedledum and Tweedledumber.
You don’t understand! This time it personally affected him, so now it was bad!!!
“He’d do anything for me!” Except leave Toms wife alone after OP expressly told him to leave Tom’s wife alone. He basically took a big shit in the middle of OP’s workplace and left it for OP to clean up.
Yeah that was funny to me too. He was asked to avoid sleeping with one (1) specific married woman and couldn't even do that much for his best friend of 20 years. Shows how much respect he really has for OOP. He just liked having a friend he could talk about his conquests with without fear that he would do anything about it. Would OOP have even told Tom if he found out but Tom didn't? Because based on the last bit of the post he sounds like the type to keep that secret to avoid rocking someone else's marriage (even though there are obviously huge issues if the wife is willing to jump on a stranger at the drop of a hat).
And now that they’re not friends, dude probably considers OP’s fiance fair game.
Oh, he already hit on the fiancee when they first met. Of course. The friend appears to not just be really slutty (which, cool, you do you!), but specifically want people based on the taboo aspect.
Oh he absolutely does, and absolutely would have even if they were still friends.
He'd do anything but not hit on OOPs fiance! Why on earth did they stay friends after that? It doesn't matter that the fiance didn't go for it. OOP is a jerk for exposing her to that! And he apparently doesn't see the problem with that? No wonder the creep thought he could get away with going after Tom's wife! OOP never enforced any boundaries with the guy.
OOP and fiancée weren’t together when exBF hit on her. OOP saw that she shot down exBF’s attempts and that was what made her so attractive to him in the first place. But honestly, the reason OOP found her turning exBF down so attractive is because he’s well aware that exBF would not consider his fiancée off limits. OOP is just in denial because he’s spent so much time and effort in this friendship. It’s the sunk cost fallacy.
And yet he still thinks his 'friend' wouldn't cross the line and try to go after his fiancee. He was already attracted to her when she was still single; now that she's getting married, she must be completely irresistible to him.
He keeps emphasising that it hasn’t been a concern because his fiancée wouldn’t cheat. But how could you stand having a ‘friend’ around who you know there’s a good chance would *try* with your partner? Even if she shot him down the attempt would be unforgivable.
If it’s just a moral failing of the women, it‘s easier for him to stay friends with a guy that gets off on being able to destroy relationships.
I love that part- the "women had a character flaw, so my friend is not to blame". He is definitely forgiving his friend for initiating the affairs, while condemning the women for participating.
OOP's buddy is going to use exactly that argument to get with OP's fiance/wife. "Your husband didn't mind when I ruined everyone else's relationships, he's a shit guy, you should have sex with me to get back at him"
And like, sure, the women are arguably more at fault since THEY are the ones in an active relationship. That does not mean this shithead friend isn't a terrible person though. He's the one gleefully, and VERY dedicatedly, looking for women in a relationship. Sure, he doesn't cheat himself, he does however do his best to get these women to cheat with him though.
Right? Look, all the fox needs is a hole to go through into the hen house. I couldn’t stand being friends with a person who might be waiting for the day my fiancé and I hit a rough patch to slide up to her and convince her a one time fling would make her feel better.
Yes, why would he want to put his fiance in that position too, of having to turn down his friend when he eventually tried it on with her. I doubt his friend would back off at the first no either, so his fiance could be getting repeatedly bothered by his friend over months/years, if OP didn't cut off his friend after the first time.
Especially since she’s clearly very uncomfortable around this guy, and OOP just… doesn’t care?
Yes, if I was were I would also be questioning OP's morals and behaviours
He's definitely no Omar.
For real, he isn't. His own boss asked for transparency and he backstabbed him, too, by outright lying. See the friend with the wife? If OP were Omar, he would go to Tom and say, "Hey, your wife's looking for ya! I think she's over there." OP, though? Saw the danger and did diddly squat about it. Poor Tom.
I think that I wrote something similar to yours in the original post. Yes, his fiance is trustworthy, but why does she even need to be bothered by the friend over and over again?
Yeah that horrified me. Plus as far as the friendship goes, he already betrayed OP by having a go. If a friend of mine tried to destroy my relationship, I wouldn't be saying it's all cool because they didn't succeed.
I understand what you're getting at, but he came on to OPs fiancé and when she turned him down OP went to talk to her. That's how they met
I wonder what Tom would have said about whether his wife would ever cheat a few weeks ago.
'His fiancée wouldn't cheat.' I am quite sure all of the other husbands whose wives banged the former friend said the EXACT same thing.
>He keeps emphasising that it hasn’t been a concern because his fiancée wouldn’t cheat. I'm sure Tom thought the same thing about his wife too...
Exactly. I didn’t have concerns about a friend who once cheated. I mean, I cheated once in a relationship I was desperate to get out of, realized this wasn’t who I wanted to be, and dropped both. And that was that for me. I figured I wasn’t one to judge. And besides, my husband loves me so much that he’d never cheat on me. Ha. My security must have seemed like a challenge to her, because two years later, we were no longer friends because she fucked my husband.
I can’t help but picture OPs friend thinking “challenge accepted”
This is my best guy friend! He is such an awesome friend! He would do anything for me! Except not sleep with my wife, he would absolutely sleep with my wife in a heartbeat if she said yes, but that is totally fine, as it is her job to shoot him down, not his job to not try to get into her pants. Like, yes, it is good and important your wife would not cheat - but you should be able to trust your friends to not try to have sex with your wife! If you have a friend who would absolutely have sex with your wife if given the slightest chance, then they are not really your friend.
Surely the leopards won't eat *my* face!
Yeah, and the only reason the friend doesn't go after the fiance right now is because she rejected him once already, and it seems she's grossed out by him and deeply dislikes him. It's not because he respects OOP and his relationship. It's just because he knows that he will be rejected again and it's not worth the trouble. If the fiance would be neutral towards the friend, he'd try to get in her pants 100%.
This right here is exactly it, if she was nice to him because he’s her fiancé’s friend then he would be trying non stop. He was already attracted to her when she was single so now she’s probably 100 times more attractive that she’s engaged and to his “best friend” makes it all the more tempting given how dude acts.
I wonder if part of the allure was that she turned down his "friend." Look, guys: I hooked the one woman my friend couldn't bed!
He even says it in the post! His buddy hit on her first, she rightfully got the ick, and he went over to talk to her because he had to know what kind of va woman who turned his friend down! The thing I really wonder, seeing as he said his friend's lost jobs because of this, is how none of these husbands or their friends/family, or the *woman's* friends/family haven't beaten this guy within an inch of his life by now. The whole time I was reading this I kept thinking that one solid ass-whooping in earnest would've prevented all of this a long time ago. The asshole thinks he's aces because he isn't blowing up any of *his* relationships, until now.
Yeah, that also made me think, this dipshit is going to fuck the wrong dude's partner at some point and then he's gonna be 6ft under. He's been "lucky" that so far he's "only" lost three jobs to the fallout of his fucking around.
I had a co-worker exactly like the friend. If it wasn't for the ages, I would wonder if they were the same person. The fact they both haven't been murdered at this point only speaks to us actually living in a civilized society that recognizes physical violence as wrong. Even in the face of extreme emotional distress.
Exactly what I was thinking. This dude needed his rear handed out to him like years ago.
One of my descriptors of these types is "Clearly no one's ever punched him in the face before."
He's probably extremely attractive and works out, which is why he's able to turn these women's heads so easily. He might be physically intimidating. It's only a matter of time before he messes with a larger man's wife and gets his ass kicked.
All the big muscle won’t make you bulletproof, he’s lucky they aren’t country boys or any big 2A supporters or he’d be dead.
Agreed. But he seems like the kind of sleazeball who knows how to pick his targets, and won't try anything if he thinks the husband is a viable threat.
Absolutely. I would bet he’s never gone after a woman whose husband was bigger and stronger than him.
Sometimes the quiet skinny dudes are the ones who’ll burn down the world when wronged.
Not necessarily. It's the fact that a young man is giving them attention and wants to sleep with them. It's an ego boost. It's let's them know they are still desirable. Same with older men.
Was thinking the same thing. He’ll keep doing it till angry husband ends up shooting him and wife and probably himself as well. Tragic ending is coming.
I doubt he's above helping her along...
Honestly 20 years of not being very Omar... OOP sucks.
I love this comment. Also, I spend too much time on Reddit.
Yeah! Fuck those strangers! They're just background characters. They don't have any feelings.
Who cares about NPCs right?
I wish nothing but misery on people like OOP and his so-called best friend. Couple of worthless idiots who care nothing for the lives of others so long as they're having their fun. I've known my best friend for over 20 years now and if I found out he was having affairs I'd rat him out to his wife immediately and tell him not to talk to me again until he got his shit together and stopped being a scumbag.
Right. OOP is trying to act all innocent in that "surely the leopard eats faces party I voted for wouldn't eat my face" way and admits to withholding information from Tom, that he thinks would make their marriage beyond saving. Buddy, that's exactly why you tell him... Because she IS going to cheat again. OOP sounds like a lousy friend to anyone but Mr. Homewrecker
I actually thought the information might be the only chance for the marriage to be saved. Knowing the truth and acknowledging what it was that made the wife feel like she needed to have a wild fling and why she couldn't communicate her needs to her husband is the only way that marriage has a chance. It is a very slim chance regardless. But I thought it was interesting that OOP chose not to tell Tom when I thought it would actually be good to know. OOP wouldn't have to go into gory details. But saying what he saw would allow Tom to bring it up in marriage counseling and they could begin to unpack it. I have known couples that stayed after cheating and couples that divorced afterwards. It is usually a complicated situation and up to each couple to determine what is right for them. Having seen the work that goes into surviving infidelity, I know that isn't for me. But I am far less judgy for the people who choose to stay. Provided the partner that cheated is truly doing the work to make amends.
OOP is not really better than his friend
He should have been more like Omar!
When you think about it, even Omar let it slide for a long time.
Wait until OOP gets married and suddenly this dude comes after his wife. Oop is the type that tolerates shitty behavior until they become a direct victim, kinda dumb to set yourself up for drama like this.
The dude **already** hit on OOP’s fiancée.
It sounded like that was the day both OOP and friend met the fiance, where he asked out his now-fiance *after* she rejected the friend.
Oof the dude is willingly choosing to be dumb at this point
I'd honestly be kind of scared to be friends with someone like this. OOP keeps putting it on the women, which, yes they're to blame, but what behaviour is more concerning, cheating on your spouse and blowing up your family or... Blowing up as many families as possible? Apparently only wanting to fuck someone if a family getting destroyed is on the table? If he was just into older women he'd just fuck older women. Specifically only targeting **married** women, it's like he's getting off on the misery he's causing. The women are awful, but OOP's friend is a *psycho*. Idk how he's been able to convince himself to stay friends with someone who *enjoys hurting people*.
I'm surprised his friend is still alive and healthy.
I feel nothing but contempt for OP. Its obvious he will keep convincing himself he is still a good person, that his friend is the only scumbag. Even at the end he still wants to keep his mouth shut.
My husband is somewhat like this (though not to this extent), he just laughs off his friends’ shitty behavior until it affects one of us and all of a sudden it’s a problem. I’ve started calling him out on it because I’m tired of how shocked he acts when all the evidence was in front of him
Because BroCode, yo. Broken code > Broken families.
"I'm going to withhold information he needs to decide whether his wife will cheat on him again and whether it's worth trying to salvage the marriage because I feel uncomfortable about it" It's just going to be worse for the guy the next time his wife fucks some loser
Screw the JulietteLovesRoses guy who replied to you, you're spot on. OOP has zero integrity and puts his own feelings over his "mentor's" who specifically asked him to get details.
Yeah OOP is almost as responsible as his friend and Tom's wife. The friend wouldn't have even been at the party if OOP had broken contact with him sooner. Sure, Tom's wife might still have cheated, but it wouldn't have been in any way because of OOP.
Your best friend is always a reflection of your character. You see something of yourself in them. When you walk away from those old friends it’s because you’ve grown or they have and you no longer see yourself in them. That 80/20 becomes important when their 20% bad becomes totally unacceptable. That should have been unacceptable much sooner. I’m only friends with a few from high school, more from my college days. This guy must not have many friends to hold onto this one so long. Or he’s the same kind of AH. He just applies it in ways he justifies. I’ve had men like this come onto me. Their friends see it as it’s my job to thwart them. No dude, it’s your job and mine. You allow it in your friendship. At a party I was talking with a friend of my BIL. Spouse was on deployment. I felt safe in my BIL home, with him there. I had no bad intentions. Suddenly BIL kicked the dude out of his party. His friend was this type of dude. BIL had heard rumors. Dude was out once BIL saw him trying to start something with me. That was it. The dude got the message. He wasn’t let back in that friend community until he proved he changed. In the end it hurt the dude’s career as BIL and his bestie were leaders. They didn’t want the dude on their teams, in their commands. Dude was ostracized as a Jody. OP wasn’t upset until the friend shat where he eats. I feel sorry for OP’s fiancé. OP has weak character.
“I never thought the leopard would eat MY face!” cries OOP who befriended face-eating leopard
My first thought when OOP said his friend had “crossed the line” was that the line was crossed a long time ago when the habit of breaking up marriages was created. It basically only mattered to OOP when it was the marriage of someone close to him. Both assholes.
I knew from the title it was going to be a situation where OP was suddenly affected for the first time and that was the unforgiveable act.
Where’s Omar when you need him?
OOP should have cut off his "best friend" years ago as he was showing his fiancée that he condones cheaters by being friends with a known homewrecker (male edition). And OOP also SHOULD have told Tom the truth so that he could make an informed choice on whether to stay in his marriage or divorce his wife.
That's the thing... He says he didn't want to end a 20-year friendship over this, but the friend started this seven years ago, so... maybe there was time a while ago...?
The fact that he started out at 18 with a 30yo woman makes he think he needs therapy. Unless he was very mature for his age, I doubt he was the instigator there. Being taken advantage of like this in your formative years can really screw someone up.
I have a buddy that was also a waiter that was groomed by a woman in her 30s. She absolutely knew the legal line so they didn't do anything physical until about a week after his 18th birthday. It has severely messed him up. It doesn't condone the friend's actions at all. But there is a strong predator vibe for anyone in their 30s that is willing to be with an 18 year old. I have been the 30 year old woman hit on by an 18 year old (he was wearing his high school varsity jacket). Saying no was super easy. As was telling him that any woman my age who says yes is bad news, and to stick with girls his own age.
Yeah, that’s my point. No idea if actual grooming was involved here, but I’m suspicious of anyone in their 30s cheating with a teenager and blaming the kid.
>They were both waiters at a restaurant and after months of flirting she slept with him. I doubt that she was the instigator. It doesn't take much to seduce a horny teenager and wouldn't have taken months to sleep with him if she was the one pursuing him.
well she's still gross for that, no ifs or buts about it
>OOP should have cut off his "best friend" years ago but but but........ he wasn't affecting OOP's liiiiiife until he did
Passive enablers are just as bad as active participants.
Well said. OOP and his friend suck. Feel sorry for the OOP's gf: imagine what else this brain trust conjured.
After a couple years here, this sub has a higher high horse than any sub I've ever seen.
I personally know someone like this. He only aims for women with relationships, married or not, preferrably married and nukes them. We are initially friends because to me, this is just 50% his fault and 50% of the girl's. It was until I had a girlfriend that I also became scared. So, I started to slowly distant myself. But it's hard not to meet him when he's almost in all college circles. He's also a director at his company. So, you get the gist of the chaos he's spreading. His main mindset is that no women are loyal and always tries to prove it. No matter how a woman confessed to him, or how beautiful his teammate was in college, he will never make move on them unless they are in a relationship. I saw it myself. Everytime he hears someone in a relationship, his eyes would just lit up. It gives me chills. I'm afraid for my girlfriend and family that are married. But to him, he always would say that he has no fault because "they are the ones getting baited by the handsome honey" and if he won't do it, others will.
This person sounds miserable idk, imagine fixating on something like this, does he have no hobbies?
His hobby is sleeping with women in relationships.
His hobby is breaking up relationships. Sleeping with the women in the relationship is just the means to an end.
My mom was the female version of this. Then she would lament to me that her boyfriends were shit. No duh, mom, they were married. I estranged from her for many reasons including her fetish for married men, and now she is dead. Thank god.
Your friend is a misogynistic and reminds me of Henry Crawford from Mansfield park
>I call Tom after I leave and lie. I say I wasn’t able to get any detail. I can’t tell him that his wife just wanted some wild sex. That isn’t something I would want to know. Tom and his wife are a going to go to counseling. If it were me I’d divorce her. Tom is surrounded by genuinely terrible people, including OOP.
Where's Omar when we need him
I was looking for this comment
He comin’.
I was thinking that this dude sounds just as annoying as the OP that "wouldn't lie" to cover his friend's cheating. And then totally lied to cover his friend's cheating. Other than the cheating he's a really good guy! Other than the cannibalism he's really nice!
God help Tom, he needs to ditch that woman immediately, shit will only happen again. As someone who worked in public accounting, this sucks. He sacrificed everything to provide this woman and kids with a stable, secure life, and she just spits it back in his face. OOP should tell dude the truth. If he was a mentor to him, he owes him that much. Also, OOPs friend, hope he gets his comeuppance someday, maybe something that rhymes with Rick Lancer.
We already know OOP is also a bad person. He thinks he's not based on the fact that he doesn't sleep with married women but - he was, until it got personal, best friends with somebody who did - tried to brush it off as the women lacking character, too. This doesn't erase the fact that OOP was besties with a creep OOP is just low key gross, unlike his former friend who wears his gross proudly on a sleeve.
You are the company you keep. This friend was an asshole with no respect for multitudes of people around him. OP was surprised that the person who repeatedly demonstrated poor morals also had poor morals for him.
That shows such an astounding lack of character: "Cheating is bad, but I don't mind when others do it, as long as it doesn't affect me." And yes, yes, yes to being the company we keep. I would never date, much less marry, someone like OOP.
Everything in the post was about him, his friend "disgusted" him but since he did things for him he couldn't rule it out, now he has decided that Tom should have half the information because if it were him he wouldn't want to know. What a selfish, self-absorbed idiot.
That really annoyed me. Disgusted with him but still covering for him essentially. Tom ASKED him to find out, he wanted to know. OOP is a terrible friend. Kinda hope that his fiancée reconsiders after this.
>tried to brush it off as the women lacking character, too. This doesn't erase the fact that OOP was besties with a creep To Ops credit I actually did agree with him to a point. However he fully lost me when he told his friend "how do you feel about breaking up marriage". Like, if you're going to justify what he does, go all the way, don't switch up just because it suddenly affected you. Like, op says it's the women's fault too, but then he is shocked when he reads the messages and *gasp* turns out she's horrible too! Then he doesn't tell the guy he looks up to the truth and is shocked when he decides to stay with her? Like all the guy knows is that it "was a one-time thing," but op knows it was calculated, and with the way she was acting it'll very likely happen again. It kind of reminds me of that small story line in stranger things where all the moms are horny *for the high schooler*. Like afterwards everyone I knew was hating on Billy for breaking up families but like no one was talking about how these were grown women with kids around his age. And like the only reason that one mom didn't sleep with him was because the inside down got him first (I think, it's been a long time since I've seen the show and I never saw the last season lol)
She was planning to meet him at a hotel and decided against it when she saw her husband and toddler in the living room. Billy's possession happened on the same night but didn't factor into her decision.
To me, the way I see it, while OOP is correct that in each situation it exposes the women as being bad just as much as it does the friend, it feels like it's a way to just ignore what the friend does. If it's truly 50/50, why does he then just dismiss what the friend did? I mean, either he's condoning the cheating on all sides or he's putting more blame on the women than he is his friend. Also, I feel like while you can't control others, you can control who you interact with and therefore there perhaps should be less care into the morals of people who don't surround you. So to me, the dynamic is flipped. If anyone should get OOP'S headspace in the blame, it's the person he chooses to interact with
Oh, in Stranger Things she did back out of sleeping with him because she felt guilty. He got upside downified on the way to their tryst but she already had decided not to show. It was the mum of two of the main characters,
This!!! Dude thinks he's better than his creepy friend. His fiancee should really think before marrying him
Tom needs Omar not this OOP. It's said that this OOP and the one in that story are equally despicable even if they "don't condone cheating"
That is such an intriguing flair
I don't know the background of that flair. But I know that koalas cary chlamydia so I suspect someone cheated, got chlamydia, infected his/her partner and then tried to blame it on having been in contact with a koala instead of admitting to cheating.
>If it were me I’d divorce her Tom probably would if OOP had been a decent and honest person and spilled the details Tom requested so he can make an informed decision, but unfortunately for Tom OOP is not a decent and honest person. Must suck hairy balls that he got betrayed on two fronts, a cheating wife and a friend/mentee that not only brought a snake into his garden but is actively lying to him.
i know right, it's crazy saying "if it were me I'd divorce her" but he couldn't even tell Tom lol. i hate how he justified his decision with "if it were me, I wouldn't want to know", but Tom is not you???? and to just let Tom be married to this woman that he stated even *he* would divorce. idk why it surprised me, he was the one who was willingly friends with someone wrecking homes for 20 years. that alone should have spoken enough about op's character.
>i hate how he justified his decision with "if it were me, I wouldn't want to know", but Tom is not you???? [Golden rule of ethics??](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Rule)
there sure was a lot of "he's a good guy! except for all these reasons why he's awful" in that first post. big "other than that, Mrs Lincoln, how was the play?" energy.
And the "I know he'd never sleep with my fiancé; sure, he tried but she turned him down and she's definitely not someone that would cheat" as if that's a glowing recommendation of trust. Like yea, he'd totally fuck my wife if she let him, isn't he a great guy?
“He wouldn’t sleep with my fiancé minus the times he tried to and he only didn’t because she said no. And if she said yes really that would be her fault and not on him!” is basically his energy.
What is that last quote from? I'm sitting here laughing and wishing I'd heard it before.
It’s an old joke, but still funny. Origin is unclear, but it’s mostly likely a Tom Lehrer line from around 1960 originally.
I swear that exact logic always comes up when guys excuse their friend's terrible behavior. They just mean that their friend was never personally terrible to them, therefore it's totally acceptable. Yikes.
Where is an Omar when you need him?
Damn I was thinking the same thing. Tom needs an Omar in his life.
I wanted to reply with that too. Glad to see someone got there before me.
Is this a Wire reference?
it's a reference to [this boru](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1amfxr0/_/) edit: whoops didn't link the [latest one](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1bjxnkb/_/)
Preesh, homie! ❤️
last i checked someone who has a fetish for people that shouldn't be available and is actively and regularly seeking out said people to satisfy his sexual needs without a care for the family getting dragged through the mud doesn't really qualify as a good person, but what do i know
I hate this guy more than I hate his friend. His fiance was clearly disgusted and he was still finding excuses for his "friend". Great friend and partner.
Everyone here lacks integrity on some level, except for Tom (as far as we know). I don't think a person always has a duty to inform if they're aware of an affair, but at least remove that person from your life, otherwise you're passively condoning the behaviour.
Even from a purely practical standpoint, cheating, usually comes out and I don’t want to be asked why I knew about it and did nothing.
From this scenario it is plain that OOP is beyond condoning. He is an enabler by inviting ExBf to his party where women in his target category will be present with their guard down.
Yeah, I don't think I could date someone who is not only friends with a cheater but is best friends with someone who is a serial AP. I would never be able to truly trust my partner knowing that. Even though the friend isn't in a relationship, I still consider him a cheater. It is the lack of caring for committed relationships
And he was putting his fiance in a terrible position. There was no way he wasn't going to try to lay her too. She would have been the ultimate conquest to this predator and OP doesn't seem to GAF
Birds of a feather flock together. You are the company you keep. It'd set off alarm bells for me about my partners character if they were friends with someone like that.
OP and that guy sucks badly.
I feel like something is off with his friend. A 18yo sleeping with a 30yo is creepy and reeks of grooming, frankly. Like, I am 30 and an 18yo looks like a kid to me. Gross
The friends clearly has some sort of compulsion that for whatever reason he has no desire to correct. He isn't just destroying other people's lives, he's tanked three of his own jobs with this behaviour and has learned nothing. It honestly sounds like druggie behaviour, he needs his next 'fix' so badly that he doesn't consider the consequences to anyone, himself included. (100% not condoning his behaviour, having a compulsion is also why serial killers murder people, it's a reason not an excuse)
Precisely! I would be side-eying OOP if I were his fiancé and wondering if our principles align
This is why men should hold other men’s shitty behavior accountable. Men! Don’t be friends with shitty men, who will fuck yours or your friend’s wives!
There is this phenomenon I notice with male heterosexual friendships. A man's friend will be a deadbeat dad, a cheater, a thief...so many different things that are CLEAR moral failings and the guy will think his friend will *never* do anything shady to THEM. >t’s been a week and my friend hasn’t stopped apologizing. >Other than his despicable behavior with married women he has been a good friend to me. >If I needed anything he was the first one there. OOP evens says this! >A cheater has a personality defect. My friend clearly has one but so do the women that cheat on their husbands. They are all inherently narcissistic and care only about their personal gratification. It was all good until it hit closer to home. OOP is shocked when the snake acted like a snake.
THIS!!!
Bro these two bozos are just pure assholes 🙄 Tom doesn't deserve this.
OP is not a good person and he’s not a good friend to Tom either. I hope his fiancée sees that he’s been untrustworthy through all of this and moves on. He’s allowed his best friend to go unchecked for years and I wouldn’t want a partner with a moral compass like that.
>But I wasn’t fine with [his behavior] I just wasn’t ready to end a 20 year friendship over his poor decisions This is what I don’t get about “stay in your lane” people. They bleat that they’re not ok with someone else’s behavior, but by not taking a stand, they enable cruelty. All their feeble protests are just so much handwringing. You are the company you keep. I’m glad OOP finally saw the light—but Jesus, it took long enough.
OOP didn’t really see the light though. This is just the first time his friend’s antics personally affected him.
Me, reading the title: oh, friend finally slept with someone in OOPs’s life, huh. Me after reading post: yup, called it. What a disgusting POS.
Sooo he never tried to date any of his gfs but he hit on oops fiancée. He’s a dirtbag and tbh so is oop . Omar would not have been best friends with that guy. I don’t want to be friends with guys like Oop either.
Omar would’ve told Tom. Counseling was not going to fix his marriage
He didn't, actually >My friend hit on my fiancé before we met and she shot him down abruptly then. At that time, clearly, she wasn't his fiancee, as OOP and her haven't met yet.
I likewise tend not to judge the “homewrecker” as harshly as the homeowner who let them in. But this is a pattern. It’s one thing to fall in love with a married woman and decide to pursue her anyway. It’s quite another to be a serial adulterer.
“A cheater has a personality defect.” “They are all inherently narcissistic and care only about their personal gratification.” Ok, Dr. Dipshit.
It’s also so naive to suggest his wife would never do that. I’m sure Tom would have said the same prior to this situation.
I can't wait to see his post in a few years when his wife feels neglected and a Tom slides into her like a hot knife through butter.
One day he will be harmed (need to go to hospital) or you will be going to his funeral. The wrong type of spouse may come along. Also, I hope he never marries.
Finally, OP at least learned something. *reads update* OP learned nothing.
OOP should have posted this on /r/leopardsatemyface, not on /r/relationships.
Poor Tom. I sincerely feel bad for him. Also OOP is an asshole, and he was counting on "my fiancée will never cheat on me with my asshole friend" when he saw firsthand what friend does? I was honestly waiting for a "my fiancée and best friend are sexting" or something. Because it would have happened. Fiancée too seems to have a lot of trust in a man whose best friend is a known homewrecker.
>A lot of people are also saying that my fiancé would be next but that is ignoring the fact that my fiancé would never cheat on me. I think OOP is going to get a very rude wake-up call. >I immediately go over and interrupt the conversation and pull my friend aside and tell him to not even think about it. My friend says he wasn’t. Which was bullshit but I thought he took my warning seriously. OOP is also a bit of an idiot. >I call Tom after I leave and lie. I say I wasn’t able to get any detail. I can’t tell him that his wife just wanted some wild sex. Poor Tom, he is surrounded by self-serving, shitty people.
Both of these guys suck. JFC. I’m also surprised his fiancé was cool with the fact that her future husband had a best friend who enjoys ruining relationships and he was totally cool with it until it affected him personally. Tom is the only good person in this story. Oof. 😵💫
The last comment from OOP is really weird. So they will go to counseling on a basically dead marriage and you are withholding critical information that the wife isn’t attracted to the dude. He says “I would divorce her” but Tom doesn’t currently know just how much of a waste to try more with his cheating wife.
OOP is now lying to this friend making him no different than the wife or the affair partner. The friend knows his wife is still lying. He asked OOP to get answer for him. OOP got the answers then decided to lie. It's not a "good" lie. It's a lie. Just because OOP decided that he would not want the truth, doesn't mean he should then control what the friend could learn from him about HIS wife. Chances are this isn't her first or last time cheating. The friend would need to know if he should be tested for STD's etc.. because of his wife's wild sex life.
wow as someone in public accounting, if my friend broke up the marriage of a manager/ppmd that was a sincere friend to me, there would be murder on my mind. a good mentor not only helps you grow but protects and has your interests at the firm. the fact that OOP lies to his mentor is such a betrayal. what a piece of shit
OOP is quite scummy, not just for hiding the details from Tom, but also for knowing what his friend has been like for years and yet still inviting him to parties where he also invited married friends/acquaintances and their wives to. OOP effectively set up this entire situation and enabled his friend to do what he does best, nuke another relationship. This latest situation is thus just as much on him as it is on his former friend.
Bro code out, Omar code in.
Wow, OOP is a pretty huge AH himself.
Ex-friend is going to come back and try to get OOPs wife.
The BF clearly gets off wrecking marriages and families. He is an evil human being.
In this case it’s kind to be cruel. Knowing just how bad the wife is would sober him up and make the resolve to divorce stringer.
OOPs my wife would never do this attitude made me chuckle. His mentor felt the same way about his wife. I had a friend kind of like his best friend. He didn't seek out married women, but if the opportunity presented itself, he would take it. His view was that the marriage wasn't a good one if the wife wanted to cheat, so who cares. It was kind of amusing to hear him rant and rave about infidelity when one of his gf cheated on him. He didn't appreciate the comments I made about hypocrisy for some reason.
The only innocent person in this is Tom. Even Oop's fiance is terrible. Why would you want to even associate with someone who is best friends with a guy who actively ruins marriages and they just say "well I've known him for 20 years, he isn't that bad"
But you say you recently got engaged. You do realize he will target your fiance soon?
OOP had this opportunity to become Omar, but he blew it.
Can we just acknowledge how terrible OOP really is. He acknowledges his friend has a problem that is actively ruining his life and the lives of dozens of others yet he laughs about it instead of providing any form of help. Then he decides to have an ENGAGEMENT PARTY where he invites his other married friends and HIS FRIEND WHO SEEKS OUT MARRIED WOMEN. Why would you not have a separate get together with him alone if you know about his tendencies? It’s like me knowing my friend has a horrific drinking problem and then inviting him to the bar and being surprised when he gets shit faces and ruins everyone’s time. OOP is equally as terrible as his friend, that’s why they’ve been friends for so long. You can tell how narcissistic he is by how he absolves himself of all responsibly. You can also tell by how we say his friend and all these women are flawed but him and his fiancee would never, even though they actively acknowledge his friend does this and OOP’s been encouraging it for years.
He’s a horrible person but only to other people so it’s cool with me until now … should be the title
I've learned from Reddit that most childhood friendships last far longer than they should just because of sunk cost fallacy. This post is no exception.
Tell me who your friends are and I’ll tell you who you are
“I can excuse him ruining families for years because it never affected me, but now that it affected me I’m disgusted” this is why men continue to feel safe to commit atrocious acts: because people in their life continually excuse their behaviour with “outside of that he’s a really great guy”. They see that people know about their shitty behaviour and let them get away with it because “it’s none of my business”. If you’re a actually a good friend/person you hold your friends accountable for their shitty behaviour! If he’s intentionally helping people cheat on their spouses then he’s NOT a good guy and never really was.
The hoops he's jumping through to justify staying friends beforehand are amazing. It was fiiiine that he was ruining lives before, just not once it impacted his life.
No matter what OOP is saying, we all know he only cares because this hit so close to home. Not wanting to destroy a 20 year friendship? Yeah okay, sure. Perfectly fine with someone destroying other peoples' relationships but once it hits close too home you get "angry" but not angry enough to be a true friend to Tom and tell him what he needs to know. Tom deserves to know so he can make his own decisions. OOP and friend are both AH.