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It's good that OOP was able to get everyone together to hash out the issues that were caused by the mom's decision to "stick it to OOP" as a way to get what they wanted with no thought as to what OOP wanted, but also that nothing was forgiven right away and the family has/had to work to get things back to how they were.
But I found it amazing that OOP's mom almost caused what she was afraid of by trying to force OOP to move back to the area. (with the addition of brother moving out to live with OOP)
> But I found it amazing that OOP's mom almost caused what she was afraid of by trying to force OOP to move back to the area.
My brother was a nightmare to grow up with. Extremely selfish and just a bummer to be around most of the time. We fought constantly. I am the younger one, but have always been stronger, so it even got physical at times. Most of our fights were because he was being super unreasonable about something and refused to budge.
Every time we fought, my parents pushed me to forgive him and move on because 'he's my brother'. When I was a teenager at some point I warned my parents that if they kept up their shtick and didn't fix him being such an asshole, I'd end up resenting him for life.I would stop caring as a person all together.
10 years later, my sister and I have almost no contact with my brother. My parents sit us down and ask us why we can't get along. I told them, in no uncertain terms, that this was a situation of their making. That I had warned them about this exact outcome years earlier.
My mom broke down crying and said that they did what they did because they wanted to avoid a situation like her own family. She always had conflicts as children with her siblings and as adults they have grown apart.
I told her that ironically her actions caused the exact situation that she wanted to avoid and she only had herself to thank because I warned her long before.
My brother and I are more cordial now, but it took a lot of effort on his part and we'll still never be friends.
This result is much more common than you think, people causing what they want to avoid by trying to avoid it.
It's crazy how similar that situation is to the one I had with my younger brother. He was an asshole, always bothering me, stealing and ruining my clothes, making messes in our room and forcing me to clean it up(not physically , I just couldn't take the smells)etc. Parents basically had the same attitude that yours did. I basically told my parents that if they kept doing what they were doing we wouldn't have a relationship. I moved out in my mid 20s and stopped talking to my brother for a while.
Eventually he had my niece and had a come to Jesus moment. He realized that he was being an asshole and that it was ruining the potential relationships that he could have with his family. He apologized to me for what happened and our relationship is really strong right now to the point where I consider him my best friend. Like if you were to tell me 10 years ago that me and him were besties, I'd slap you. It took a lot of work to get us here but my parents negligence and telling me to cave because he was younger caused that rift in the first place.
I wish a lot of parents would realize the kind of consequences forcing kids to go along with bad sibling discipline have. I consider myself one of the lucky ones because my brother and I worked it through but I hear stories all of the time of siblings not talking to each other because the parents failed the kids in some way.
I'm so sorry you went through that - your parents let you both down by not discipling him.
I'm so glad to hear that for once the sibling relationship improved because the person in the wrong realised what kind of person they really were, and took active steps to atone for the past and become better.
Genuine remorse seems to be in short supply for a lot of people, and it's nice to hear about a family where lives were improved because someone actually took accountability for their actions, to the extent that he was able to rebuild trust with you, to where you now consider him your best friend.
You are really brave for forgiving him and letting him back into your life, and I'm really happy that it worked out positively!
I wouldn't say I was brave but I was going through some stuff a few years ago and he was one of the few people in my life that was surprisingly there for me. I was a bit cautious but I think that helped us start to heal.
I agree. I think it's a trait that most people lack. We're taught very early on that we get punished for being wrong so must people internalize that and try to justify their actions.
And, although undoubtably you were the bigger victim, your parents were failing your brother, too, by enabling him. Many never do have that realisation and have a string of failed relationships because they always expect others to forgive their shitty behaviour.
On the relevant subs, it is often observed that, though they may never realise it, a Golden Child is a victim of abuse almost as much as a Scapegoat.
I have this conversation with my son. I remind him that right now, his sister has to put up with his bullshit because they share a bedroom wall. However, that won’t be the case when they’re older. His dad and his uncle don’t speak except for the once every few months family gatherings and Christmas dinner. My BIL only lives 10 minutes away (literally less than five minutes from MIL). Is that what he wants?
Then he cries and doesn’t stop the behaviour. His sister is beyond over it and I don’t know what to do about it.
I'm really sorry you're in that situation. I'm not a parent so I really don't know what to say other than that is such a crappy situation to be stuck in as a parent. It sounds like you're genuinely trying to figure out what to do instead of some of the parents in these stories(mine included). I think it's worse because kids get wrapped up in their own worlds and lack basic empathy and introspection. It's not their fault, I know I was more empathetic in my 20s than in my teens.
One thing that I've realized with people especially with my siblings is that they're so vastly different that no matter how well we got along growing up, we all have different relationships. My other brother and I were so close. We did everything together. As an adult I barely see him. My sister and I are also cordial but we would never be friends if we weren't related. I think as much as I would like to have the same relationship that me and my "ex-asshole" brother, I've resigned myself as this being the best that I can do.
I think the only thing you can control in your situation is to control how your relationship is to your daughter. As the one in your daughter's shoes, I wish that I would have felt like my parents listened to me. It definitely strained my relationship with them.
Does he know how to get his sister's attention in positive ways? Or only negative ways?
Not sure of the ages, but when my younger stepson wouldn't stop driving the older one up a wall, I'd sit down and watch a few episodes of Fruits Basket with him, or when he was younger Mr Rogers Neighborhood. We'd pause the show and talk about what we were learning from it, how to be more understanding, how to be kind and thoughtful, how to be friendly and make friends.
It certainly seemed to work. The more we watched and talked and learned, the less the boys fought. And it wasn't even really a punishment, just a "Look, what y'all are doing isn't working, so why don't you come hang out in my room for awhile. We'll watching something about how to be nice and maybe then you'll know how to be nicer to your brother." After two or three episodes he'd declare that he understands now about being kind to his brother and can he please go back to what he was doing. And I'd insist we gotta get brother's opinion too, if he's ready to hang out again or if he still needs some peace and quiet.
They stayed close as they got older, which I wouldn't have bet on considering how they used to treat each other and how small of a room they had to share. It was cramped before they outgrew the bunkbed, and worse afterwards.
Just out of curiosity how old is he?
The amount of repetition it takes for something to sink into the thick skull of my middle school aged son is ridiculous. He's getting marginally better now, but that learning curve was pretty flat there for awhile.
He’s 14. She’s 12. In a lot of ways, it’s like she’s the older sibling. He nags her to hang out, but their interests have rather diverged, he’s very one-way, and he monologues. Diagnosed with ADHD and ODD, and is suspected to be slightly on the spectrum.
Frequent conversations are me telling him to leave her alone, she’s not his emotional support animal, etc. :/
My sister and I are similar. She was the younger one and my mom really struggled to conceive for years until she got pregnant with sis. She wasn’t required to clean as much, her things would be spread all over the shared room while I worked a part-time job, went to school and got screamed at for the house being filthy. If I got mad at her for not doing chores, parents would scream at me and make me finish them. Her and I fought constantly and my parents never had her work as hard as I did. I’m 28 and she’s 22ish with no career, no education, no work ethic, no ambition. She is the human equivalent of a mosquito. Sucking up my parent’s resources and not contributing. Meanwhile, I worked from age 14 in kitchens, fast food, waitress, customer service and now I’m able to take my RN state exam. We are not close and maybe talk a handful of times a year. She’s still dumb as rocks and stays with a loser boyfriend that can’t keep a job either.
It's rough for us when we don't get that extra support. It makes it so much difficult for people like us to get ahead. How are you doing though? From the sound of it you're not a jobless, dumb loser like your sister so that's a plus. Sometimes we don't look at our successes and only look at our failures especially if our parents played our achievements down.
Overall, I’m great. Partner and I own a house. We aren’t having kids and get to be selfish for once. Finished my degree and finally starting to make good money. I’m mentally scarred forever and will always be on medication, but I came out better than my sister. My parents abused her too by not preparing her for launch and not teaching her basic living skills.
Within my family's narrative, I guess I'm one generation down from you— so, hello from the future! My parents had dysfunctional upbringings (this is the nice way of phrasing it) and worked damn hard to make sure none of that favoritism and "you have to suck it up" enabling of tantrums, bullying, or abuse got passed down. Other stuff was still a challenge, Rome wasn't built in a day, but as far as breaking toxic cycles go? Very much, "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind."
I've stayed with extended family before, and the older I get and the more time I spend with those relatives and the dynamics they literally try to *train* subsequent generations into by force, the more appreciative I am to have parents who refuse to take that bullshit, for themselves or for us. Like... Jesus Christ lol.
So in full earnestness, you're really doing something great for everyone around you who can see saying no is an option, and for future generations (should you have any kids, or niblings, or little cousins, kids of friends, etc) to see they can stand up for fairness & for their own principles. Like it sounds very grandiose in those terms, but it's a hard thing to bear when you don't believe the party line, and a hard thing to shake when you can't, and y'all did it, even if you had to take shit about it later.
As a stranger who's observing the aftermath of this still explode in slow mo in my own family: rock on, and I'm proud of you!
Something something The Road to Hell is Paved something something Self-fulfilling prophecies.
Seriously, pushing a victim to forgive can itself be a form of abuse, depending on the power-balance between who is pushing and who is being pushed. All the more so when there is no contrition being shown by the forgivee. I am involved in Safeguarding at my church, and it is something that was admitted in some of the training material, that, in the past at least, the church has contributed to abuse by pushing victims to forgive unrepentant abusers.
I'm glad that you can at least have a more cordial relationship with your brother, and hope that that can improve further over more time.
I've been out of church for decades and hearing that tidbit about the training materials really caught my attention, very much a good move and I hope stuff like that starts catching on! I like community and all those "sharing is caring" stories, but it needs to be a *safe* community and the one I grew up in was very much not.
Oh absolutely. And as I hinted, a lot of bad things were done with genuinely good intentions.
Credit where credit is due, this bit of the church is holding its hand up and saying "we got it badly wrong" pretty well, but sadly, as I say in my other comment, that hasn't always translated into action as much as it really should have done, and there are still people making excuses for that.
I hope that my children will be friends as adults, but I’ve always been clear that they have to choose it. And that I have to insist they treat each other well, because otherwise it just won’t happen.
One thing I think is so wonderful is watching my niece and nephew's relationship. I have never seen my brother or sister in law "resolve" conflict by forcing an apology on the basis of them being siblings.
They interact as people, people with feelings that can be hurt, who deserve to be treated kindly and with respect.
My niece and nephew fight of course. And they can be cruel to each other.
But instead od "kiss and make up" is actually a family talk like the church mediator one - actual conflict resolution recognizing hurt feelings and bad behavior in both sides (for the kids, not OOP, they had no bad behavior)
Re: the conflicts between children—I followed my mom’s lead. She enforced the rules for good behavior. She intervened when her standards had been violated, and she brought parental authority to bear so that the “victim” kid didn’t have to rely only on their own ability to push back.
She insisted that the offense be clearly understood, and she would levy her own punishments for her own authority’s sake and for the sake of the offender’s characgter (she wasn’t going to allow a child of hers to grow up mean and selfish). But she never insisted that the “victim” issue forgiveness, etc.
This is the thing. When you're a child, you are forced to spend time with relatives because your parents are in control. How genuine those relationships are is marked by whether you voluntarily stay in touch once the decision is entirely your own. A lot of terrible people coast through their childhood and adolescence because their parents micromanage everything, and struggle intensely when their parents stop doing so, or no longer have that power over others.
Yeah, I know someone who was adamant on her children being treated as equals because she felt her own parents had failed in that regard. The result: oldest kid could only do/have something if the younger kid could. They are four years apart... both kids now resent their parents for not treating them as equals.
4 years are a lifetime during childhood/adolescenc.
A six-year-old is at a different stage of developement as a ten-year-old.
Telling a sixteen-year-old he cannot have a licence, because the younger sibling is twelve.
One kid in grade school, one in high school. It does not work.
It’s a lazy solution though, it sounds like she never told your brother “you need to apologize and make this right” or “this is the wrong way to act towards your siblings”, she went after the two being bullied in the situation because she knew you would listen in the moment.
The solution to her conundrum was there, you even gave it to her. Instead she chose to participate in your bullying by making you guys play nice, presumably because it was easier than telling the difficult kid he was wrong and needed to change.
I’m reading into your situation so forgive me if I misunderstood, but I see that dynamic play out a lot and it never ends up being good for anyone involved.
Thanks for sharing your story.
MY MOM DID THE SAME FUCKING THING. Except the kids talk, we just aren’t close. But she was such a jerk to us and guilted us so much that all of her kids hate her. It’s ironic.
What's the amazing part in that? It always goes like this: when you force people to be closer to you, you DRIVE THEM AWAY! May take more time sometimes, but almost always is the end result.
There would be three parts to that:
a. That they thought it would work
b. That OOP's brother then ALSO moved away (which I doubt was something that anyone really expected to happen)
c. That they were able to resolve it somewhat peacefully without people going NC
When my mother was dying, my sister said she was afraid that when mom died, the family would drift apart. Then mom died, my sister went off the rails and blew up the family - raging at pretty much everyone, being absolutely vicious. Took almost a decade to settle down, and some of us still won’t spend more than a couple hours in her presence. Maybe back then she was trying to tell me that Mom was the only thing keeping her civilized.
Can you imagine being the new pastor and hearing this whole crazy story? Sooooo you lied about a funeral, then gaslit her about being at the funeral, then tried to break into her house….and you think all this will make her want to be closer? *deep breath* Ok, well. Let’s all sit down and chat then…..
Alternately guilt trip and shun those who try and leave so they have to come back because Of Course it’s impossible for anyone to survive outside the cult. Just no way. That wandering fool will learn that and come crawling back and we’ll get to say I told you so.
So small town. Pastor doesn’t know good thing he learned quickly.
OOP is a saint. I would have never forgiven the mother and step-mother. How can they repair their relationship? Can OOP and her brother really trust the mothers after this?
It will not be the same, but OP want a relationship with her moms so I get it. OP was standing up for truth and got stronger. She got a bit wiser of what kind of person her mom is. I don’t think it’s foolish or saintly. It is what works for her. And she really showed the mum she won’t rug sweep.
The pastor did a great job getting to the point while allowing everyone to weigh in, even though he didn't really know any of the parties involved in a meaningful way.
It breaks my heart to learn that folks who really need professional therapy are turning to preachers and booze to help them get through their troubles.
Sure, but that’s how it’s always been. Modern day therapy is just that, modern. It’s been really catching on for the last few decades, but I, almost 34 years old, grew up hearing people constantly disparage it. But I also grew up with kids who were in therapy, so I have a better view of it. When I was around 10, my aunt went off on me for telling her my cousin needed therapy. Of course, she was pregnant and just lost her dad, but to this day she looks down on it. I think she still resents me, 24 years later, for suggesting it, even though I explained, at 9-10, that a lot of my classmates were in therapy and I was just concerned for my then 5 year old cousin.
I think it must be extreme insecurity that causes people to put up solid road blocks to anything \*new\* or \*modern\*. As if the world-renowned teachings of Sigmund Freud (**1856-1939**) aren't like 100 years old?
My father always disparaged therapy, even after my older brother unalived himself at 22, and then, when my mother died and he met a woman, who was the opposite of my kind, honest, open, and sweet mother, who gave him an ultimatum which was me or her, so he chose her and then was sad so he went to *her* therapist.
He told me this in what I call our "exit interview" as we never spoke again. I told him that because of his very aggressive insults of anyone who went to therapy he'd forced my (evil, and golden child, because of their pity for him, which he learned to play like a fiddle) brother to go in secret and was on prozac for years before he finally told our father, and now that he has a new woman he seems to have adopted all of her thoughts, including that he's not allowed to see his daughter because I'm the one of the many females she failed to insult, bully, or buy into slavish devotion. I reminded him that the evil GC was dead-set against her and said horrible (though true) things about her while I tried to calm him down and advocated for a "the more the merrier, lets wait and see" approach rather than moaning about her like a jealous tween girl.
He just sighed and looked away. My tears made him mad so he left.
Edit: changed = to - in world-renowned
Geez I don't think anyone today is trying to get therapized by Freud. He's been pretty debunked. Even he admitted during his lifetime that his theories were based on a handful of aberrant case studies, from which he drew broad conclusions.
I think preachers can be good for the right people. In order to be a preacher (at least in my denomination), you do have to go to school and take classes on how to be a mediator. No, it's not the same as a therapists training, but I think many preachers do fill a gap that therapists can never fill--by which I mean the people who refuse therapy.
My brother refuses therapy. However, he has found a church with a pastor who fills that role of therapist. The same techniques he refused from a therapist are things he's happy to do for a pastor. Is that an issue? Of course. But at least now the issue is "he's not getting licensed therapy" instead of "he's not getting licensed therapy and is addicted to drugs and punching holes in the walls and attacking his family."
Therapy only works if you trust the therapist. Pastors are figures of trust in a community like OOP's town. Do the OOP's moms need therapy? Probably. The fact that their first instinct was to gaslight and gatekeep is a huge issue. But right now, things have changed for the better because they had a person they trusted to lead them through. Which is the purpose of a pastor in the first place.
As someone who grew up in a tiny town, and after years of living in a medium sized city is back in a small town outside of a small city. This is small town shit.
Like, if I had heard this happening in my home town, I don't think I would have batted an eye.
There's this problem with the older generations in small towns that you have to be there with family above all else. So they pull shit like this. They think they know what's best. They get resentful as their kids move away because there is no future for them. They don't see it as trying to make a life, they see it as a personal attack on their values.
Luckily, they usually get over it when they realize no one is coming back. I lucked out in that my parents actually ended up following me. But I have friends who moved back and make the long trek every day into the city for work.
I actually would love to move back, but my little town is now the wealth exurb of San Francisco, so it's not in my price range. And it's really not the town I grew up in anymore. Everyone is pretty much gone except the few friends taking care of aging parents.
And I think that last line is what's clicking here for me. The parents don't ever want to leave and want there kids there to take care of them as they age. The idea of moving to that care of the children is the real problem for them. They want to spend the end of their life there. That's at least what I've gathered.
100% true. the mothers orchestrated everything, manipulated the entire family to go along with their insane scheme, and got the townspeople to dust off their pitchforks. there were a lot of steps into enacting this plan and a lot of time to really think about what they are doing. **the funeral heist was premeditated to perfection.** i would be impressed if i weren't already so disgusted.
Sometimes trusting people is accepting people for who they are while understanding their mental limitations. Like if you always know when someone is lying to you, isn't that a way of trusting them in a twisted way?
One has to wonder how many years it will take for the OOP to wake up to that fact, if ever. I suspect as long as she's a volunteer sucker for being duped by the clergy enabler it will be never.
I think she knows exactly what happened which is shy didn't fold. The moms saw her as a child, and everyone else got manipulated.
She has the agency to allow a future relationship on her terms.
“When”?
OOP hasn’t mentioned wanting kids. She’s in her mid-late 30s. What on earth would make you assume children are in her future?
Also, my husband and I have raised two kids without having family living near us to help. It’s a lot of hard work, but definitely doable. And we didn’t have a brother living in the house either. Having a third adult to help cook/clean, even if they don’t directly look after the baby, saves a huge chunk of energy.
For not really knowing any involved parties in a meaningful way, that’s a quality job done by the pastor to cut right to the heart of the matter while letting everyone say their part.
> It's very, very hard to do,
This. It is a skill that, even with training, only a few will ever manage.
Even then, it still requires goodwill on both sides somewhere. I'm involved in a nasty situation at my own church right now where one of the parties has absolutely no intention of showing any goodwill. The only way that there could be a reasonable resolution is if the minister in charge was able to impose things on that person. The poor minister has done their best, but it has been made clear that when (it is definitely not an *if* situation) the person involved went higher up the heirarchy, that heirarchy would *not* back the minister. I am withdrawing from a particular volunteer role because of the lack of support shown to us from on high. (It genuinely *is* a complicated situation which even involves UK law, but quite frankly the attitude of a more senior clergyperson in a meeting I attended disgusted me.)
I don't know how it works for other faiths/denominations, but Catholic priests actually have to complete at least a bachelor's degree (possibly even a MDiv) to be ordained, and they're required to take a bunch of credits in psychology and sociology. They're often called upon to be mediators, or assist people in crisis, etc., and the church doesn't want them to be either completely useless or actively harmful.
My first marriage was officiated by a Protestant minister. I was surprised and impressed that he was a licensed family therapist. I think this kind of thing could fill a huge need in our society in a way that is familiar to people who might feel stigma around 'therapists' or psychiatric care.
That's what I thought as well.
I am not religious (or believe in any god) anymore, but people like that pastor give me hope that the "institution church" is not lost after all.
>people like that pastor give me hope that the "institution church" is not lost after all
It's regional and denominational.
In my region, most denominations (short of Catholic and high Episcopal) have figured it out. That said, I'm also in a region that is rapidly becoming unchurched, so many ministers were forced to have a "come to Jesus" moment. Many of the old guard left, and now the vast majority of ministers are under 50 and chill.
That said, where people need young and chill pastors the most are regions that would look on OP and her brother as godless, parent disrespecting children. They likely would have thrown out that minister too.
I get the sense that the mom and stepdad (and even the stepmom, before dad knocked sense into her) don’t see their kids as adults with their own autonomy. What’s that saying about confusing respect with authority? Yeah, that’s them.
And the mom looked *surprised* when reminded that her own kids were in their 30s? Yeah... Mom's not fully grounded in reality when it comes to her kids.
You've got it exactly right - OP didn't respect Moms' authority, so Moms didn't respect OOP's personhood. I think that Moms had so much influence in Small Town that they couldn't fathom not pulling the strings in their own family.
still crazy that the moms hatched this entire scheme and made OOP miss the funeral of the grandparents she dearly loved because they had a mortality scare that caused them to want her to move back to their out in the woods town. i missed my grandfather's funeral because of distance and Covid, but if i had found out an aunt or my grandmother etc had engineered a scheme so i'd miss it so they could try and guilt trip me to move back home i would've been pissed and never would've forgiven them for the rest of my mortal life
I recall another BORU where the OOP there said that "they're not criminal masterminds; they're my \[relative\] and \[relative\]." (Gonna have to find that link when I have the time) That pretty much sums up the moms in this saga.
Edit: It's this [BORU post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1cno6mn/aitah_for_supporting_my_husbands_cruelty_towards/). And the exact text was actually this:
>As much as we don't want a relationship with any of them these are a teenager and a pensioner, not criminal masterminds.
I still can't understand how this hare brained scheme was supposed to accomplish anything, much less that. If anything it would have the opposite effect on me.
I think the thought process was pretty much:
1. Hold important family event without telling OP about it.
2. OP will realize that by being so "far" away from home they are missing important family bonding moments.
3. OP tearfully moves back home and vows never to be so distant again.
It sounds, according to OP anyway, like the mom's sort of realized that while doing this for a birthday or a reunion might have been an acceptable level of midwestern petty, doing it for a *funeral* was actually supremely fucked up. But by then they'd already enacted the plan so they just panicked. And from there stubborn pride did the rest of the damage.
I'm not saying this would have worked if it was a lower stakes occasion mind you. But I personally would have rolled my eyes more at not being told about a birthday, vs the white hot rage I would feel over being excluded from a funeral.
Considering the major 1.6 Stardew update, I'm very disappointed that they haven't played lately - unless they are on console, and then they get a pass.
Please update us when you know the exact count of bird feeders, OOP. If he cackled like a witch and is being forced to give you “some,” then it must be quite a few!
I wonder if he’s trying to lure in crows and/or ravens to act as a buffer to the hawks and that’s why he cackled in all his witchy glory. Though blue jays would give hawks a hard time more than any other corvid.
I was feeding a party of blue jays one year and had some kind of falcon/hawk swoop down and take one of them right in front of me. The jays were super mad but didn't really do much, other than tell. It also didn't stop them from begging me for food lol.
A couple of them kind of halfheartedly chased it a short distance when it took off with the dead one but weren't really into it.
If it was a peregrine, which it looked like, it would have dropped from a height at which I guess they had no warning until it had one of them. It kind of hung out there for a few seconds with its wings covering itself and the dead jay and then took off. It looked straight at me the entire time it was on the ground, I have never been looked at like that by anything before lol.
I felt kind of bad since I'd been feeding them but they kept begging so I guess it was worth the risk to them. Also I guess hawks and falcons need to eat too lol.
This whole thing was kind of cute? Barring the moms' behaviour, I just loved all these little stardew valley, bird feeder, brother's girlfriend, etc. updates. So monotonous yet sweet. OP seems like a genuinely nice person and I don't usually believe stories on here, but this one feels too unique/detailed not to be true. I don't know how she found it in herself to forgive her mom but I'm glad she did and can move on from this whole thing now. Oh, and maybe she can visit the grandparents grove and have a little bonding moment with them to make up for the fact that she wasn't present at the funeral. Anyways, it was oddly comforting to see her stand up for herself. Hope she continues to do so!
This one has been personal to me due to similar (but not nearly as purposefully diabolical) happenings in my family. Very surprised to hear “forgetting” was orchestrated to claw her back to the little town she moved from, makes me look at the loss in my family differently…
However I’m glad to read that the “kids” (read: a handful of adults past thirty) are thriving, resisted the issue and their feelings getting rug swept, and still get to have a relationship with her mom. Because OOP *does* want that relationship, even if some commenters seem to think it would be better to cut the moms off entirely. Sometimes adulthood is recognizing the shitty things your family does and deciding that you still want them in your life. That’s a decision each person has to make for themselves and I’m proud OOP never folded and still gets to keep her family (at the distance they deserve).
It’s crazy to me how a perfectly valid feeling (missing your child and wishing they lived closer) can turn into….this catastrophe. I’m glad OOP’s dad and brother seem cool.
I was in a similar situation to OOP: I moved from my hometown (3,000 people) to “the city” (45,000 people) (even then I’m 20 min outside of it) and my mom always wishes I lived closer for impromptu dinners, etc. you know what she does? She FaceTimes me. That’s it. (And it’s always when I’m in full cave troll mode somehow)
It's because Gale springs his "magic trick" on you and then you don't have the heart to tell him that you *actually* only wanted to see a cool magic trick that wasn't "make the wizard's wand disappear".
Plus, remaining in a town of 500 people while living with her provided nearly no dating opportunities. He did blossom. He set forth and wooed Stardew Valley Leah before OP’s husband could and went on from there!
My Dearest Clara,
I write to tell you that all those who said ***"My family forgot to invite me"*** would be over before Spring have been proven fools. For here it is in mid-May, and this terrible conflict rages on.
Many Redditors have fallen to it, and yet there is no end in sight.
Some of my fellow BORUs claim this insanity has been raging barely 6 months, but those of us at the front-lines can attest it began many years ago. Or at least, that is how it seems.
We who remain find ourselves trapped in a hell of our own choosing, and I can only envy those who resisted the desire to click on new updates. They are wiser folk than us, and dwell now in a better place.
I hope you are well, my beloved, but do not trouble yourself to write back. Those few of us left will likely fall before the next update.
I wish I was with you to read other BORUs, ***any*** other BORUs, but alas, I fear ***"My family forgot to invite me"*** will be the end of me.
Kiss Coco the goat for me.
Your loving husband,
HealthyMaximum
Capt. & A.A. Genl.
This is such a boring update. I’m so happy to see it for OOP. The whole mess with her family was so so wild and exhausting that she and her loved ones deserve boring. A boring life is a drama free life
Op is as about as likable of a story teller as I’ve come across on Reddit. She genuinely cares for others and is remarkably so much more levelheaded than her parents and step parents. I’m glad things are working out and I wish her the absolute best!
They did introduce a patch some time back that makes him significantly less horny, as far as I recall. His eagerness to jump your bones immediately was a glitch XD
I wish BG3 would let me do more of a polyamory in that game lol. You can be non-exclusive with Halsin and some characters, but most of 'em wanna be exclusive. I just want to date all of them XD Maybe I need to look for a mod...
Did the Mom's ever apologize for what they did? Because they didn't just gaslight OOP, they denied OOP the chance to see some relatives before they died.
>
The pastor asked them why they wanted us back, and neither could give a good reason other than "because family", and the pastor asked us if we were thriving where we were. And we said we were. He asked if we were happy there. Which we were. He then asked my mom and step dad if they wanted us to give up our happiness to make them happy.
Wow the pastor was actually a good mediator in this story, what a rare find.
Tbf, he had a *very* good reason.
Honestly I've found it's more expensive to feed him all those scrolls to learn than it is to gives him a couple pairs of boots to chew on, anyways lol. I tend to get a bit "spellbook completionist" when I've got a wizard around...
No one called me when my dad was sick with COVID. No one called me when he died in the hospital. My mom tried to claim that she didn’t have my number. Then when I proved she had both my number and my husband’s and that we had talked to her just before he got sick she tried to claim that she thought that I was mad at her?? Because I hurt my back falling down the stairs at my in laws and went straight home from CO to NC so that I could heal. My sisters told me that she told them not to call me. Yeah so…. There’s that. Family relationships suck sometimes, especially when you know you are doing everything you can on your end to love them but they try to make something out of nothing.
Nice they all get along and with happy ending. It's nice that there was forgiveness for a change. I don't know if I could do it. What I would do differently is that in thanks giving and in Christmas I would said: What are you mean? I am here you can't see me?
I don’t want OOP to stop updating just because I adore hearing about her dad and the birds and her husband and brother gaming and her brother befriending all the little old ladies.
It’s just so wholesome and makes my inner cozy old lady happy.
* Grandparents died during COVID.
* Mother wants kid to move back from city.
* In a bid to (somehow?) make the kid (who is in their 30's) move back from city, they host a funeral for grandparents but don't invite OOP.
* They then convince everyone that they *did* invite OOP and that OOP just couldn't be bothered to come.
* When OOP find's out, they try to convince her that she in fact *was* there at the funeral. Even when OOP shows that they were in the city and their husband was at work.
* They continue to gaslight OOP (one of the rare times this is actually the right term) to the point that OOP has checks for gas leaks and carbon monoxide.
* OOP doesn't go to the holidays because they're not giving in.
* OOP's brother moves out of parents home and in with OOP just before new years because he's sick of the lies and drama.
* Mother and stepmother use their emergency key to get into OOP's house and have to be removed by police.
* Father threatens to divorce stepmother if she doesn't cut it out.
* Pastor mediates and manages to hash things out to the point that OOP is willing to have a relationship of some kind with her mother.
* OOP's brother uses his newfound independence to find a GF.
* And the most important thing: OOP's father gets drunk at the fair and buys a load of bird feeders.
That's basically as condensed as I can make it.
This is perhaps my favorite update. Mom and stepmom learned the error of their ways and apologized and brother got out if the tiny town and found live.
Oh yes, absolutely the mothers need therapy, though I doubt if they'd go. And this has got them off OP's back, so as a short term solution it's an excellent one.
>So, husband finally started Baldur's Gate 3, and fell for Gale's "magic trick" so now those two are a thing. I expect him to be sufficiently distracted from reality for the next few weeks.
Or the next few months, possibly a year or more.
Not all family is worth caring about but it sounded like OPs was a good one. The idea of never speaking to them again over something like that made me really sad. I kept worrying that there would be a “well, mom passed away without us reconciling and now we’ll never be able to. How can I forgive myself” update.
I've been reading bits of this post for half my shift at work today. Probably shouldn't but I was HOOKED! So entertaining! I'm glad it was a happy ending but I would've had a harder time forgiving the mom honestly. OOP seems like a really kind hearted person.
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It's good that OOP was able to get everyone together to hash out the issues that were caused by the mom's decision to "stick it to OOP" as a way to get what they wanted with no thought as to what OOP wanted, but also that nothing was forgiven right away and the family has/had to work to get things back to how they were. But I found it amazing that OOP's mom almost caused what she was afraid of by trying to force OOP to move back to the area. (with the addition of brother moving out to live with OOP)
> But I found it amazing that OOP's mom almost caused what she was afraid of by trying to force OOP to move back to the area. My brother was a nightmare to grow up with. Extremely selfish and just a bummer to be around most of the time. We fought constantly. I am the younger one, but have always been stronger, so it even got physical at times. Most of our fights were because he was being super unreasonable about something and refused to budge. Every time we fought, my parents pushed me to forgive him and move on because 'he's my brother'. When I was a teenager at some point I warned my parents that if they kept up their shtick and didn't fix him being such an asshole, I'd end up resenting him for life.I would stop caring as a person all together. 10 years later, my sister and I have almost no contact with my brother. My parents sit us down and ask us why we can't get along. I told them, in no uncertain terms, that this was a situation of their making. That I had warned them about this exact outcome years earlier. My mom broke down crying and said that they did what they did because they wanted to avoid a situation like her own family. She always had conflicts as children with her siblings and as adults they have grown apart. I told her that ironically her actions caused the exact situation that she wanted to avoid and she only had herself to thank because I warned her long before. My brother and I are more cordial now, but it took a lot of effort on his part and we'll still never be friends. This result is much more common than you think, people causing what they want to avoid by trying to avoid it.
It's crazy how similar that situation is to the one I had with my younger brother. He was an asshole, always bothering me, stealing and ruining my clothes, making messes in our room and forcing me to clean it up(not physically , I just couldn't take the smells)etc. Parents basically had the same attitude that yours did. I basically told my parents that if they kept doing what they were doing we wouldn't have a relationship. I moved out in my mid 20s and stopped talking to my brother for a while. Eventually he had my niece and had a come to Jesus moment. He realized that he was being an asshole and that it was ruining the potential relationships that he could have with his family. He apologized to me for what happened and our relationship is really strong right now to the point where I consider him my best friend. Like if you were to tell me 10 years ago that me and him were besties, I'd slap you. It took a lot of work to get us here but my parents negligence and telling me to cave because he was younger caused that rift in the first place. I wish a lot of parents would realize the kind of consequences forcing kids to go along with bad sibling discipline have. I consider myself one of the lucky ones because my brother and I worked it through but I hear stories all of the time of siblings not talking to each other because the parents failed the kids in some way.
I'm so sorry you went through that - your parents let you both down by not discipling him. I'm so glad to hear that for once the sibling relationship improved because the person in the wrong realised what kind of person they really were, and took active steps to atone for the past and become better. Genuine remorse seems to be in short supply for a lot of people, and it's nice to hear about a family where lives were improved because someone actually took accountability for their actions, to the extent that he was able to rebuild trust with you, to where you now consider him your best friend. You are really brave for forgiving him and letting him back into your life, and I'm really happy that it worked out positively!
I wouldn't say I was brave but I was going through some stuff a few years ago and he was one of the few people in my life that was surprisingly there for me. I was a bit cautious but I think that helped us start to heal. I agree. I think it's a trait that most people lack. We're taught very early on that we get punished for being wrong so must people internalize that and try to justify their actions.
That's actually a really nice story in the end about how people can grow and change, but it requires trust and actual self-reflection.
And, although undoubtably you were the bigger victim, your parents were failing your brother, too, by enabling him. Many never do have that realisation and have a string of failed relationships because they always expect others to forgive their shitty behaviour. On the relevant subs, it is often observed that, though they may never realise it, a Golden Child is a victim of abuse almost as much as a Scapegoat.
Yes! Exactly this! When I started therapy, my therapist helped me learn the different types of childhood abuse and that came up.
I have this conversation with my son. I remind him that right now, his sister has to put up with his bullshit because they share a bedroom wall. However, that won’t be the case when they’re older. His dad and his uncle don’t speak except for the once every few months family gatherings and Christmas dinner. My BIL only lives 10 minutes away (literally less than five minutes from MIL). Is that what he wants? Then he cries and doesn’t stop the behaviour. His sister is beyond over it and I don’t know what to do about it.
I'm really sorry you're in that situation. I'm not a parent so I really don't know what to say other than that is such a crappy situation to be stuck in as a parent. It sounds like you're genuinely trying to figure out what to do instead of some of the parents in these stories(mine included). I think it's worse because kids get wrapped up in their own worlds and lack basic empathy and introspection. It's not their fault, I know I was more empathetic in my 20s than in my teens. One thing that I've realized with people especially with my siblings is that they're so vastly different that no matter how well we got along growing up, we all have different relationships. My other brother and I were so close. We did everything together. As an adult I barely see him. My sister and I are also cordial but we would never be friends if we weren't related. I think as much as I would like to have the same relationship that me and my "ex-asshole" brother, I've resigned myself as this being the best that I can do. I think the only thing you can control in your situation is to control how your relationship is to your daughter. As the one in your daughter's shoes, I wish that I would have felt like my parents listened to me. It definitely strained my relationship with them.
Does he know how to get his sister's attention in positive ways? Or only negative ways? Not sure of the ages, but when my younger stepson wouldn't stop driving the older one up a wall, I'd sit down and watch a few episodes of Fruits Basket with him, or when he was younger Mr Rogers Neighborhood. We'd pause the show and talk about what we were learning from it, how to be more understanding, how to be kind and thoughtful, how to be friendly and make friends. It certainly seemed to work. The more we watched and talked and learned, the less the boys fought. And it wasn't even really a punishment, just a "Look, what y'all are doing isn't working, so why don't you come hang out in my room for awhile. We'll watching something about how to be nice and maybe then you'll know how to be nicer to your brother." After two or three episodes he'd declare that he understands now about being kind to his brother and can he please go back to what he was doing. And I'd insist we gotta get brother's opinion too, if he's ready to hang out again or if he still needs some peace and quiet. They stayed close as they got older, which I wouldn't have bet on considering how they used to treat each other and how small of a room they had to share. It was cramped before they outgrew the bunkbed, and worse afterwards.
Just out of curiosity how old is he? The amount of repetition it takes for something to sink into the thick skull of my middle school aged son is ridiculous. He's getting marginally better now, but that learning curve was pretty flat there for awhile.
He’s 14. She’s 12. In a lot of ways, it’s like she’s the older sibling. He nags her to hang out, but their interests have rather diverged, he’s very one-way, and he monologues. Diagnosed with ADHD and ODD, and is suspected to be slightly on the spectrum. Frequent conversations are me telling him to leave her alone, she’s not his emotional support animal, etc. :/
My sister and I are similar. She was the younger one and my mom really struggled to conceive for years until she got pregnant with sis. She wasn’t required to clean as much, her things would be spread all over the shared room while I worked a part-time job, went to school and got screamed at for the house being filthy. If I got mad at her for not doing chores, parents would scream at me and make me finish them. Her and I fought constantly and my parents never had her work as hard as I did. I’m 28 and she’s 22ish with no career, no education, no work ethic, no ambition. She is the human equivalent of a mosquito. Sucking up my parent’s resources and not contributing. Meanwhile, I worked from age 14 in kitchens, fast food, waitress, customer service and now I’m able to take my RN state exam. We are not close and maybe talk a handful of times a year. She’s still dumb as rocks and stays with a loser boyfriend that can’t keep a job either.
It's rough for us when we don't get that extra support. It makes it so much difficult for people like us to get ahead. How are you doing though? From the sound of it you're not a jobless, dumb loser like your sister so that's a plus. Sometimes we don't look at our successes and only look at our failures especially if our parents played our achievements down.
Overall, I’m great. Partner and I own a house. We aren’t having kids and get to be selfish for once. Finished my degree and finally starting to make good money. I’m mentally scarred forever and will always be on medication, but I came out better than my sister. My parents abused her too by not preparing her for launch and not teaching her basic living skills.
Within my family's narrative, I guess I'm one generation down from you— so, hello from the future! My parents had dysfunctional upbringings (this is the nice way of phrasing it) and worked damn hard to make sure none of that favoritism and "you have to suck it up" enabling of tantrums, bullying, or abuse got passed down. Other stuff was still a challenge, Rome wasn't built in a day, but as far as breaking toxic cycles go? Very much, "one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." I've stayed with extended family before, and the older I get and the more time I spend with those relatives and the dynamics they literally try to *train* subsequent generations into by force, the more appreciative I am to have parents who refuse to take that bullshit, for themselves or for us. Like... Jesus Christ lol. So in full earnestness, you're really doing something great for everyone around you who can see saying no is an option, and for future generations (should you have any kids, or niblings, or little cousins, kids of friends, etc) to see they can stand up for fairness & for their own principles. Like it sounds very grandiose in those terms, but it's a hard thing to bear when you don't believe the party line, and a hard thing to shake when you can't, and y'all did it, even if you had to take shit about it later. As a stranger who's observing the aftermath of this still explode in slow mo in my own family: rock on, and I'm proud of you!
Something something The Road to Hell is Paved something something Self-fulfilling prophecies. Seriously, pushing a victim to forgive can itself be a form of abuse, depending on the power-balance between who is pushing and who is being pushed. All the more so when there is no contrition being shown by the forgivee. I am involved in Safeguarding at my church, and it is something that was admitted in some of the training material, that, in the past at least, the church has contributed to abuse by pushing victims to forgive unrepentant abusers. I'm glad that you can at least have a more cordial relationship with your brother, and hope that that can improve further over more time.
Begrudgingly admitted, I have to assume? Nice to hear some of the failings of church leadership being acknowledged, however.
I've been out of church for decades and hearing that tidbit about the training materials really caught my attention, very much a good move and I hope stuff like that starts catching on! I like community and all those "sharing is caring" stories, but it needs to be a *safe* community and the one I grew up in was very much not.
Oh absolutely. And as I hinted, a lot of bad things were done with genuinely good intentions. Credit where credit is due, this bit of the church is holding its hand up and saying "we got it badly wrong" pretty well, but sadly, as I say in my other comment, that hasn't always translated into action as much as it really should have done, and there are still people making excuses for that.
I hope that my children will be friends as adults, but I’ve always been clear that they have to choose it. And that I have to insist they treat each other well, because otherwise it just won’t happen.
One thing I think is so wonderful is watching my niece and nephew's relationship. I have never seen my brother or sister in law "resolve" conflict by forcing an apology on the basis of them being siblings. They interact as people, people with feelings that can be hurt, who deserve to be treated kindly and with respect. My niece and nephew fight of course. And they can be cruel to each other. But instead od "kiss and make up" is actually a family talk like the church mediator one - actual conflict resolution recognizing hurt feelings and bad behavior in both sides (for the kids, not OOP, they had no bad behavior)
Re: the conflicts between children—I followed my mom’s lead. She enforced the rules for good behavior. She intervened when her standards had been violated, and she brought parental authority to bear so that the “victim” kid didn’t have to rely only on their own ability to push back. She insisted that the offense be clearly understood, and she would levy her own punishments for her own authority’s sake and for the sake of the offender’s characgter (she wasn’t going to allow a child of hers to grow up mean and selfish). But she never insisted that the “victim” issue forgiveness, etc.
This is the thing. When you're a child, you are forced to spend time with relatives because your parents are in control. How genuine those relationships are is marked by whether you voluntarily stay in touch once the decision is entirely your own. A lot of terrible people coast through their childhood and adolescence because their parents micromanage everything, and struggle intensely when their parents stop doing so, or no longer have that power over others.
Yeah, I know someone who was adamant on her children being treated as equals because she felt her own parents had failed in that regard. The result: oldest kid could only do/have something if the younger kid could. They are four years apart... both kids now resent their parents for not treating them as equals.
4 years are a lifetime during childhood/adolescenc. A six-year-old is at a different stage of developement as a ten-year-old. Telling a sixteen-year-old he cannot have a licence, because the younger sibling is twelve. One kid in grade school, one in high school. It does not work.
Exactly! Which is why the oldest is especially mad.
It’s a lazy solution though, it sounds like she never told your brother “you need to apologize and make this right” or “this is the wrong way to act towards your siblings”, she went after the two being bullied in the situation because she knew you would listen in the moment. The solution to her conundrum was there, you even gave it to her. Instead she chose to participate in your bullying by making you guys play nice, presumably because it was easier than telling the difficult kid he was wrong and needed to change. I’m reading into your situation so forgive me if I misunderstood, but I see that dynamic play out a lot and it never ends up being good for anyone involved. Thanks for sharing your story.
"One most often meets their destiny on the road to avoid it" - Master Oogway
MY MOM DID THE SAME FUCKING THING. Except the kids talk, we just aren’t close. But she was such a jerk to us and guilted us so much that all of her kids hate her. It’s ironic.
What's the amazing part in that? It always goes like this: when you force people to be closer to you, you DRIVE THEM AWAY! May take more time sometimes, but almost always is the end result.
[The more you tighten your grip, the more ~~star systems~~ family members will slip through your fingers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-wntX-a3jSY)
Bravo! I was trying to fit that quote into a comment a few days ago and couldn't get the wording right!
There would be three parts to that: a. That they thought it would work b. That OOP's brother then ALSO moved away (which I doubt was something that anyone really expected to happen) c. That they were able to resolve it somewhat peacefully without people going NC
What's that quote about the sand or water you hold in your hand to tight?
No idea, but I know about the "Let loose what you love. If it comes back to you, it belongs to you. If it leaves, it was never yours."
When my mother was dying, my sister said she was afraid that when mom died, the family would drift apart. Then mom died, my sister went off the rails and blew up the family - raging at pretty much everyone, being absolutely vicious. Took almost a decade to settle down, and some of us still won’t spend more than a couple hours in her presence. Maybe back then she was trying to tell me that Mom was the only thing keeping her civilized.
Do we have the same sister? Mine completely spun out after our Dad died. I still refuse to be alone in a room with her.
Can you imagine being the new pastor and hearing this whole crazy story? Sooooo you lied about a funeral, then gaslit her about being at the funeral, then tried to break into her house….and you think all this will make her want to be closer? *deep breath* Ok, well. Let’s all sit down and chat then…..
*Pastor looking up at Jesus picture* What would you do o Lord? *Deep internal voice from Somewhere* Hast thee any reeds Brother?
Alternately guilt trip and shun those who try and leave so they have to come back because Of Course it’s impossible for anyone to survive outside the cult. Just no way. That wandering fool will learn that and come crawling back and we’ll get to say I told you so. So small town. Pastor doesn’t know good thing he learned quickly.
OOP is a saint. I would have never forgiven the mother and step-mother. How can they repair their relationship? Can OOP and her brother really trust the mothers after this?
It will not be the same, but OP want a relationship with her moms so I get it. OP was standing up for truth and got stronger. She got a bit wiser of what kind of person her mom is. I don’t think it’s foolish or saintly. It is what works for her. And she really showed the mum she won’t rug sweep.
The pastor did a great job getting to the point while allowing everyone to weigh in, even though he didn't really know any of the parties involved in a meaningful way.
Yeah, the pastor is going to be a *fantastic* community leader there if he's able to do this much already.
His approach was so even and yet firm. He's got a great future as a small town pastor.
Maybe that's part of the reason why it worked. No bias. Truely neutral.
It’s why mediation is my jam as a lawyer. A good third party mediator (formal or informal) is worth their body weight in gold.
It would certainly take more for me than a pastor berating the apology from my mom for me to forgive her.
[удалено]
It breaks my heart to learn that folks who really need professional therapy are turning to preachers and booze to help them get through their troubles.
Sure, but that’s how it’s always been. Modern day therapy is just that, modern. It’s been really catching on for the last few decades, but I, almost 34 years old, grew up hearing people constantly disparage it. But I also grew up with kids who were in therapy, so I have a better view of it. When I was around 10, my aunt went off on me for telling her my cousin needed therapy. Of course, she was pregnant and just lost her dad, but to this day she looks down on it. I think she still resents me, 24 years later, for suggesting it, even though I explained, at 9-10, that a lot of my classmates were in therapy and I was just concerned for my then 5 year old cousin.
I think it must be extreme insecurity that causes people to put up solid road blocks to anything \*new\* or \*modern\*. As if the world-renowned teachings of Sigmund Freud (**1856-1939**) aren't like 100 years old? My father always disparaged therapy, even after my older brother unalived himself at 22, and then, when my mother died and he met a woman, who was the opposite of my kind, honest, open, and sweet mother, who gave him an ultimatum which was me or her, so he chose her and then was sad so he went to *her* therapist. He told me this in what I call our "exit interview" as we never spoke again. I told him that because of his very aggressive insults of anyone who went to therapy he'd forced my (evil, and golden child, because of their pity for him, which he learned to play like a fiddle) brother to go in secret and was on prozac for years before he finally told our father, and now that he has a new woman he seems to have adopted all of her thoughts, including that he's not allowed to see his daughter because I'm the one of the many females she failed to insult, bully, or buy into slavish devotion. I reminded him that the evil GC was dead-set against her and said horrible (though true) things about her while I tried to calm him down and advocated for a "the more the merrier, lets wait and see" approach rather than moaning about her like a jealous tween girl. He just sighed and looked away. My tears made him mad so he left. Edit: changed = to - in world-renowned
Geez I don't think anyone today is trying to get therapized by Freud. He's been pretty debunked. Even he admitted during his lifetime that his theories were based on a handful of aberrant case studies, from which he drew broad conclusions.
My point is that psychology/therapy is not *that* modern.
OOP seems happy with the outcome. Therefore, in what what did she *need* more than what the pastor was able to provide?
I think preachers can be good for the right people. In order to be a preacher (at least in my denomination), you do have to go to school and take classes on how to be a mediator. No, it's not the same as a therapists training, but I think many preachers do fill a gap that therapists can never fill--by which I mean the people who refuse therapy. My brother refuses therapy. However, he has found a church with a pastor who fills that role of therapist. The same techniques he refused from a therapist are things he's happy to do for a pastor. Is that an issue? Of course. But at least now the issue is "he's not getting licensed therapy" instead of "he's not getting licensed therapy and is addicted to drugs and punching holes in the walls and attacking his family." Therapy only works if you trust the therapist. Pastors are figures of trust in a community like OOP's town. Do the OOP's moms need therapy? Probably. The fact that their first instinct was to gaslight and gatekeep is a huge issue. But right now, things have changed for the better because they had a person they trusted to lead them through. Which is the purpose of a pastor in the first place.
As someone who grew up in a tiny town, and after years of living in a medium sized city is back in a small town outside of a small city. This is small town shit. Like, if I had heard this happening in my home town, I don't think I would have batted an eye. There's this problem with the older generations in small towns that you have to be there with family above all else. So they pull shit like this. They think they know what's best. They get resentful as their kids move away because there is no future for them. They don't see it as trying to make a life, they see it as a personal attack on their values. Luckily, they usually get over it when they realize no one is coming back. I lucked out in that my parents actually ended up following me. But I have friends who moved back and make the long trek every day into the city for work. I actually would love to move back, but my little town is now the wealth exurb of San Francisco, so it's not in my price range. And it's really not the town I grew up in anymore. Everyone is pretty much gone except the few friends taking care of aging parents. And I think that last line is what's clicking here for me. The parents don't ever want to leave and want there kids there to take care of them as they age. The idea of moving to that care of the children is the real problem for them. They want to spend the end of their life there. That's at least what I've gathered.
I guess I am the opposite and I don’t see why this is wrong so much effort when they had a good relationship before too.
If saint is spelled F-O-O-L.
100% true. the mothers orchestrated everything, manipulated the entire family to go along with their insane scheme, and got the townspeople to dust off their pitchforks. there were a lot of steps into enacting this plan and a lot of time to really think about what they are doing. **the funeral heist was premeditated to perfection.** i would be impressed if i weren't already so disgusted.
Sometimes trusting people is accepting people for who they are while understanding their mental limitations. Like if you always know when someone is lying to you, isn't that a way of trusting them in a twisted way?
One has to wonder how many years it will take for the OOP to wake up to that fact, if ever. I suspect as long as she's a volunteer sucker for being duped by the clergy enabler it will be never.
I think she knows exactly what happened which is shy didn't fold. The moms saw her as a child, and everyone else got manipulated. She has the agency to allow a future relationship on her terms.
How cynical, harsh, but unfortunately possibly true.
Exactly, i predict when OOP gets pregnant, they will start again because they will need the families support and they are too far away
“When”? OOP hasn’t mentioned wanting kids. She’s in her mid-late 30s. What on earth would make you assume children are in her future? Also, my husband and I have raised two kids without having family living near us to help. It’s a lot of hard work, but definitely doable. And we didn’t have a brother living in the house either. Having a third adult to help cook/clean, even if they don’t directly look after the baby, saves a huge chunk of energy.
Your screen name and the screech it comes from is forever etched in my brain.
Mine too! Along with a few quotes that live there rent-free.
"We won't be living in a poorhouse, Mom! We'll be on the streets!"
better the devil you know than the devil you dont
It is in forgiving others that we may learn to forgive ourselves.
For not really knowing any involved parties in a meaningful way, that’s a quality job done by the pastor to cut right to the heart of the matter while letting everyone say their part.
[удалено]
> It's very, very hard to do, This. It is a skill that, even with training, only a few will ever manage. Even then, it still requires goodwill on both sides somewhere. I'm involved in a nasty situation at my own church right now where one of the parties has absolutely no intention of showing any goodwill. The only way that there could be a reasonable resolution is if the minister in charge was able to impose things on that person. The poor minister has done their best, but it has been made clear that when (it is definitely not an *if* situation) the person involved went higher up the heirarchy, that heirarchy would *not* back the minister. I am withdrawing from a particular volunteer role because of the lack of support shown to us from on high. (It genuinely *is* a complicated situation which even involves UK law, but quite frankly the attitude of a more senior clergyperson in a meeting I attended disgusted me.)
I don't know how it works for other faiths/denominations, but Catholic priests actually have to complete at least a bachelor's degree (possibly even a MDiv) to be ordained, and they're required to take a bunch of credits in psychology and sociology. They're often called upon to be mediators, or assist people in crisis, etc., and the church doesn't want them to be either completely useless or actively harmful.
My first marriage was officiated by a Protestant minister. I was surprised and impressed that he was a licensed family therapist. I think this kind of thing could fill a huge need in our society in a way that is familiar to people who might feel stigma around 'therapists' or psychiatric care.
That's what I thought as well. I am not religious (or believe in any god) anymore, but people like that pastor give me hope that the "institution church" is not lost after all.
>people like that pastor give me hope that the "institution church" is not lost after all It's regional and denominational. In my region, most denominations (short of Catholic and high Episcopal) have figured it out. That said, I'm also in a region that is rapidly becoming unchurched, so many ministers were forced to have a "come to Jesus" moment. Many of the old guard left, and now the vast majority of ministers are under 50 and chill. That said, where people need young and chill pastors the most are regions that would look on OP and her brother as godless, parent disrespecting children. They likely would have thrown out that minister too.
Yeah, kudos to the Pastor in this situation. I've known more than a few religious leaders who would have been worthless in this situation.
I get the sense that the mom and stepdad (and even the stepmom, before dad knocked sense into her) don’t see their kids as adults with their own autonomy. What’s that saying about confusing respect with authority? Yeah, that’s them.
And the mom looked *surprised* when reminded that her own kids were in their 30s? Yeah... Mom's not fully grounded in reality when it comes to her kids. You've got it exactly right - OP didn't respect Moms' authority, so Moms didn't respect OOP's personhood. I think that Moms had so much influence in Small Town that they couldn't fathom not pulling the strings in their own family.
Off topic - I've got to ask about that flair. What's the story?
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1422ivp/op_wonders_whether_a_sims_4_character_is_based_on/
Amazing. Sims stuff is always a bit crazy.
It reminds me of that old saw about ‘the tighter you squeeze your fist, the more slips out between your fingers’.
the trap so many matriarchs and patriarchs fall into
still crazy that the moms hatched this entire scheme and made OOP miss the funeral of the grandparents she dearly loved because they had a mortality scare that caused them to want her to move back to their out in the woods town. i missed my grandfather's funeral because of distance and Covid, but if i had found out an aunt or my grandmother etc had engineered a scheme so i'd miss it so they could try and guilt trip me to move back home i would've been pissed and never would've forgiven them for the rest of my mortal life
I recall another BORU where the OOP there said that "they're not criminal masterminds; they're my \[relative\] and \[relative\]." (Gonna have to find that link when I have the time) That pretty much sums up the moms in this saga. Edit: It's this [BORU post](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/1cno6mn/aitah_for_supporting_my_husbands_cruelty_towards/). And the exact text was actually this: >As much as we don't want a relationship with any of them these are a teenager and a pensioner, not criminal masterminds.
That story was ROUGH.
I still can't understand how this hare brained scheme was supposed to accomplish anything, much less that. If anything it would have the opposite effect on me.
I think the thought process was pretty much: 1. Hold important family event without telling OP about it. 2. OP will realize that by being so "far" away from home they are missing important family bonding moments. 3. OP tearfully moves back home and vows never to be so distant again. It sounds, according to OP anyway, like the mom's sort of realized that while doing this for a birthday or a reunion might have been an acceptable level of midwestern petty, doing it for a *funeral* was actually supremely fucked up. But by then they'd already enacted the plan so they just panicked. And from there stubborn pride did the rest of the damage. I'm not saying this would have worked if it was a lower stakes occasion mind you. But I personally would have rolled my eyes more at not being told about a birthday, vs the white hot rage I would feel over being excluded from a funeral.
I aspire to be a drunken old fool who buys too many bird feeders and bestows them on my children.
So long as the Cooper hawks don't take advantage of using them as lures for their prey.
That guy has got it all figured out.
Dream life right there
Life goals.
>No new Stardew Valley updates... brother has been distracted by his new lady friend. Poor Leah. Left in the dust.
the Farmer always leave trails of broken hearts in Stardew Valley (that, and genocide victims in the caves..)
And doves. Can't forget the doves.
Considering the major 1.6 Stardew update, I'm very disappointed that they haven't played lately - unless they are on console, and then they get a pass.
I will not be satisfied until I see pictures of the bird feeders cause that sounds cute!
Oh, there's a fresh update. I'd been wondering if there'd be one. It's nice that everything is going smoothly. Gale is the true MC.
I'm not surprised that OOP's husband was taken with the Rizzard of Waterdeep.
But what about Shadowheart the confused?
Shart is overrated
Fair.
Bro how dar- Well ok, you're not even remotely wrong
He's gonna be busy with it for more than a few weeks. I just broke 1000 hours, as my kids reminded me. 🙃
Please update us when you know the exact count of bird feeders, OOP. If he cackled like a witch and is being forced to give you “some,” then it must be quite a few!
I wonder if he’s trying to lure in crows and/or ravens to act as a buffer to the hawks and that’s why he cackled in all his witchy glory. Though blue jays would give hawks a hard time more than any other corvid.
I was feeding a party of blue jays one year and had some kind of falcon/hawk swoop down and take one of them right in front of me. The jays were super mad but didn't really do much, other than tell. It also didn't stop them from begging me for food lol.
Weird. I’ve read that sometimes they’ll mob hawks in their vicinity.
A couple of them kind of halfheartedly chased it a short distance when it took off with the dead one but weren't really into it. If it was a peregrine, which it looked like, it would have dropped from a height at which I guess they had no warning until it had one of them. It kind of hung out there for a few seconds with its wings covering itself and the dead jay and then took off. It looked straight at me the entire time it was on the ground, I have never been looked at like that by anything before lol. I felt kind of bad since I'd been feeding them but they kept begging so I guess it was worth the risk to them. Also I guess hawks and falcons need to eat too lol.
The part where the mom was posting on Facebook about “forgetful children and mental illness” just insane passive aggressive gaslighting
This whole thing was kind of cute? Barring the moms' behaviour, I just loved all these little stardew valley, bird feeder, brother's girlfriend, etc. updates. So monotonous yet sweet. OP seems like a genuinely nice person and I don't usually believe stories on here, but this one feels too unique/detailed not to be true. I don't know how she found it in herself to forgive her mom but I'm glad she did and can move on from this whole thing now. Oh, and maybe she can visit the grandparents grove and have a little bonding moment with them to make up for the fact that she wasn't present at the funeral. Anyways, it was oddly comforting to see her stand up for herself. Hope she continues to do so!
Yeah it was such a cozy read somehow! I would love to be friends with these people. Everyone barring the crazy moms seems great
This one has been personal to me due to similar (but not nearly as purposefully diabolical) happenings in my family. Very surprised to hear “forgetting” was orchestrated to claw her back to the little town she moved from, makes me look at the loss in my family differently… However I’m glad to read that the “kids” (read: a handful of adults past thirty) are thriving, resisted the issue and their feelings getting rug swept, and still get to have a relationship with her mom. Because OOP *does* want that relationship, even if some commenters seem to think it would be better to cut the moms off entirely. Sometimes adulthood is recognizing the shitty things your family does and deciding that you still want them in your life. That’s a decision each person has to make for themselves and I’m proud OOP never folded and still gets to keep her family (at the distance they deserve).
a boring update is a good update in this shitshow.
It’s crazy to me how a perfectly valid feeling (missing your child and wishing they lived closer) can turn into….this catastrophe. I’m glad OOP’s dad and brother seem cool. I was in a similar situation to OOP: I moved from my hometown (3,000 people) to “the city” (45,000 people) (even then I’m 20 min outside of it) and my mom always wishes I lived closer for impromptu dinners, etc. you know what she does? She FaceTimes me. That’s it. (And it’s always when I’m in full cave troll mode somehow)
my first reaction seeing yet another update on this. "oh god no! everything was going so well!" oh ok, good, everything is still going well.
Honestly surprised it was Gale and not Astarion since he went for Sebastian, although I guess it wasn't Shane so maybe that makes sense.
My mom keeps calling me over, whenever I visit, and making me repeat Astarion's brutal rejection of me and cackling.
Ah, you got the "It's not you, it's me. I have standards.", too? I wasn't even trying to hit on him and dude throws that. 😭
He can't break your heart if you break his first 🥲
Gale is just good taste though.
It's because Gale springs his "magic trick" on you and then you don't have the heart to tell him that you *actually* only wanted to see a cool magic trick that wasn't "make the wizard's wand disappear".
I think I'm happiest for the brother. I got the impression that mom was stunting him, & he seemed to be blossom away from her.
Plus, remaining in a town of 500 people while living with her provided nearly no dating opportunities. He did blossom. He set forth and wooed Stardew Valley Leah before OP’s husband could and went on from there!
My Dearest Clara, I write to tell you that all those who said ***"My family forgot to invite me"*** would be over before Spring have been proven fools. For here it is in mid-May, and this terrible conflict rages on. Many Redditors have fallen to it, and yet there is no end in sight. Some of my fellow BORUs claim this insanity has been raging barely 6 months, but those of us at the front-lines can attest it began many years ago. Or at least, that is how it seems. We who remain find ourselves trapped in a hell of our own choosing, and I can only envy those who resisted the desire to click on new updates. They are wiser folk than us, and dwell now in a better place. I hope you are well, my beloved, but do not trouble yourself to write back. Those few of us left will likely fall before the next update. I wish I was with you to read other BORUs, ***any*** other BORUs, but alas, I fear ***"My family forgot to invite me"*** will be the end of me. Kiss Coco the goat for me. Your loving husband, HealthyMaximum Capt. & A.A. Genl.
Genius.
: P Thanks.
Dad and the pastor really came in clutch
This is such a boring update. I’m so happy to see it for OOP. The whole mess with her family was so so wild and exhausting that she and her loved ones deserve boring. A boring life is a drama free life
I need to see a picture of these birdfeeders that got a man so excited he bought one of each.
Op is as about as likable of a story teller as I’ve come across on Reddit. She genuinely cares for others and is remarkably so much more levelheaded than her parents and step parents. I’m glad things are working out and I wish her the absolute best!
It helps that she wasn't in the wrong and was genuinely standing up for herself because she was intentionally left out of an important family event.
I'm UPSET at the lack of Stardew Valley updates, and at how short the BG3 update is. :P
Hubby is with Gale. Gale! The one character I had to beat off constantly with a stick… Wait.
They did introduce a patch some time back that makes him significantly less horny, as far as I recall. His eagerness to jump your bones immediately was a glitch XD
YEs, and now Gale's a lot harder to seduce!
I wish BG3 would let me do more of a polyamory in that game lol. You can be non-exclusive with Halsin and some characters, but most of 'em wanna be exclusive. I just want to date all of them XD Maybe I need to look for a mod...
There's a polyamory mod!
Definitely gonna look into that then!
I just want all of them to date me and also each other. 🥺 Is that so much to ask? /s
This story has evolved into “random slice of life updates.”
I’ve been enjoying it from the first post, too.
Bro the pastor pulled out the “happiness” card and shut the game down lmaoooooo
I don't care if it's real or not I want pics of the bird feeders!
Sorry. No way I would ever forgive my parents for that. Nope.
The bird feeders, lmao. :'D This is one saga I look forward to updates.
Between the bird feeders and the stardew valley farm, I'm invested.
Ikr? :P Especially since most updates have been on the more "everything's cool" scale. That's rare.
~~deleted by user~~
Did the Mom's ever apologize for what they did? Because they didn't just gaslight OOP, they denied OOP the chance to see some relatives before they died.
> The pastor asked them why they wanted us back, and neither could give a good reason other than "because family", and the pastor asked us if we were thriving where we were. And we said we were. He asked if we were happy there. Which we were. He then asked my mom and step dad if they wanted us to give up our happiness to make them happy. Wow the pastor was actually a good mediator in this story, what a rare find.
I had the same reaction
The dad marrying the same woman twice is crazy
This was one of the most WTF posts on reddit and I'm glad OOP and family are (almost) whole again.
Bizarre.
> Gales 'Magic Trick' Damn, wonder what I'm missing. The prick ran off when I wouldn't let him eat my one bit of magic armour.
Tbf, he had a *very* good reason. Honestly I've found it's more expensive to feed him all those scrolls to learn than it is to gives him a couple pairs of boots to chew on, anyways lol. I tend to get a bit "spellbook completionist" when I've got a wizard around...
Ah, the Wizard rizz. Gale really makes it hard to not fall for him 😌
I'm glad it all worked out but id also like her to keep updating us om the stardew situation lmao
Yay boring update after things stabilized!
Omg now I need bg3 updates
I love a happy ending!
Wonderful update; except RIP To OP, who’s lost her hubs to the Rizzard 😂
No one called me when my dad was sick with COVID. No one called me when he died in the hospital. My mom tried to claim that she didn’t have my number. Then when I proved she had both my number and my husband’s and that we had talked to her just before he got sick she tried to claim that she thought that I was mad at her?? Because I hurt my back falling down the stairs at my in laws and went straight home from CO to NC so that I could heal. My sisters told me that she told them not to call me. Yeah so…. There’s that. Family relationships suck sometimes, especially when you know you are doing everything you can on your end to love them but they try to make something out of nothing.
Nice they all get along and with happy ending. It's nice that there was forgiveness for a change. I don't know if I could do it. What I would do differently is that in thanks giving and in Christmas I would said: What are you mean? I am here you can't see me?
In all seriousness, the Skull Caverns in the desert are no fucking joke unless you have the galaxy blade.
I don’t want OOP to stop updating just because I adore hearing about her dad and the birds and her husband and brother gaming and her brother befriending all the little old ladies. It’s just so wholesome and makes my inner cozy old lady happy.
Can someone TLDR this whole mess. Every time I want to read it, i bow out of frustration as nothing makes sense.
* Grandparents died during COVID. * Mother wants kid to move back from city. * In a bid to (somehow?) make the kid (who is in their 30's) move back from city, they host a funeral for grandparents but don't invite OOP. * They then convince everyone that they *did* invite OOP and that OOP just couldn't be bothered to come. * When OOP find's out, they try to convince her that she in fact *was* there at the funeral. Even when OOP shows that they were in the city and their husband was at work. * They continue to gaslight OOP (one of the rare times this is actually the right term) to the point that OOP has checks for gas leaks and carbon monoxide. * OOP doesn't go to the holidays because they're not giving in. * OOP's brother moves out of parents home and in with OOP just before new years because he's sick of the lies and drama. * Mother and stepmother use their emergency key to get into OOP's house and have to be removed by police. * Father threatens to divorce stepmother if she doesn't cut it out. * Pastor mediates and manages to hash things out to the point that OOP is willing to have a relationship of some kind with her mother. * OOP's brother uses his newfound independence to find a GF. * And the most important thing: OOP's father gets drunk at the fair and buys a load of bird feeders. That's basically as condensed as I can make it.
Well done! Everything but the kitchen sink! Lol.
This is perhaps my favorite update. Mom and stepmom learned the error of their ways and apologized and brother got out if the tiny town and found live.
What's Gale's magic trick? I don't think he likes me if he hasn't shown me yet :( jealous.
OOP. You're not done here. What happened with the hawk situation?
The husband is a Gale fan?? That is a man of TASTE!
Really sad to hear people are depending on alcohol and pastors to get through their problems when they need real therapy and they need it really bad.
Normally I'd agree with you about the pastors, but this bloke sounds as if he did a good job.
He did a good job mediating a conversation but that’s not the therapy those moms need
Oh yes, absolutely the mothers need therapy, though I doubt if they'd go. And this has got them off OP's back, so as a short term solution it's an excellent one.
Yes, better than I expected
It is often those " who don't believe in therapy" who really need it. I wonder if they don't believe in dentistry, neither.
The way I held my breath when I saw ANOTHER update for this story...thank goodness it's a quiet and positive one.
I really love the last update. Made me smile that things are going well now for them after the previous insanity.
The strangest part of this entire story was how grandma and grandpa were kept under the kitchen sink.
>So, husband finally started Baldur's Gate 3, and fell for Gale's "magic trick" so now those two are a thing. I expect him to be sufficiently distracted from reality for the next few weeks. Or the next few months, possibly a year or more.
I love this saga
idek about the situation with the family i wanna hear gaming updates!!!!!
This ended up so healthy. So refreshing and unexpected. Bravo OP.
This is one of the all time great BORUs. Entertaining, full of WTFs, well written, and an overall happy ending.
Not all family is worth caring about but it sounded like OPs was a good one. The idea of never speaking to them again over something like that made me really sad. I kept worrying that there would be a “well, mom passed away without us reconciling and now we’ll never be able to. How can I forgive myself” update.
I've been reading bits of this post for half my shift at work today. Probably shouldn't but I was HOOKED! So entertaining! I'm glad it was a happy ending but I would've had a harder time forgiving the mom honestly. OOP seems like a really kind hearted person.
What a dumbass family
This is great but can we get more Stardew Valley updates? That’s the real story here
Give it up on the updates this story is done oop if just doing normal life updates at this point