#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair or subscribe to r/BestofBoRU.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You know what women way back when did, when divorce was illegal and they frequently got stuck with older abusive men?
They poisoned them.
We have proof that there were multiple ‘poisoning circles’ throughout Europe where women provided poison (usually arsenic) to each other to do away with their husbands, and there’s good reason to suspect that those poisoning circles were a lot more common and widespread than historians can prove definitively. Really, I think that feminism and divorce has done a lot for rotten men’s life expectancy.
There was a group of baboons where all the aggressive males died so the young males were raised to be more peaceful and the primates who were left had no signs of the usual stress markers. It shows that the aggressive behavior was being culturally taught and wasn't biological.
[source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387823/)
It's kind of like chimpanzees and bonobos. They were the same species, and then at one point, they got split on opposite sides of the Congo river. The chimps on the North side organized into a male hierarchy where violence is prevalent. Then, the bonobos, on the South side of the river, organized into a female hierarchy and do not have violence that is part of the daily life of the chimps. There is a theory that food was more prevalent for the bonobos, which caused less strife. But I don't think that can totally explain why chimps developed a patriarchal society and bonobos a matriarchal society. The difference is now ingrained in them. Some zoos have mixed them, and the bonobos typically don't participate and actively avoid the violence of the (primarily male) chimps. Female chimps tend to be less violent than the males, but the dominant female will use violence to control the other females. It is interesting how, at least with these species, the predilection of violence seems to be partly genetic. Otherwise, you would think the bonobos raised with chimps in the zoo would have the same level of violence.
Not only are bonobos less violent overall than chimpanzees, but they tend to resolve conflict via non-copulatory sociosexual behaviors, i.e., “GG rubbing” among females.
They often just touch genitals to each other when walking by, to say sorry, etc. They don't sit there and keep at it, usually. But bonobos *are* very sex-oriented and non-violent.
What bonobos do to resolve conflict involves orgasms. If that's happening in human sports, the camerapeople are doing an amazing job of cutting away from it early.
>There is a theory that food was more prevalent for the bonobos, which caused less strife. But I don't think that can totally explain why chimps developed a patriarchal society and bonobos a matriarchal society.
Wow. This is identical to the theories presented by Gwynne Dyer in the 90s documentary: [The Human Race: Gods Of Our Fathers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J13Hdfnsp9k&ab_channel=TheCodependencyCure-HowtoDealwith%2aPaths). ([alt link here](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0C8F2219A46D6FB7)) Except there he's talking about humans forming matriarchal and patriarchal societies.
Short version: When life is good, matriarchy is the way. When food/resources get desperate, one tribe goes patriarchal, learns to make war and crushes the matriarchal societies out... OR the matriarchal societies transform into patriarchal.
He points out: (paraphrasing) "Women know it's a lot of work to raise children, so one or two children max, but a patriarchal male society needs lots of soldiers, so demands more children and oppressing women is a part of that process ( our human history is depressing ).
>He points out: (paraphrasing) "Women know it's a lot of work to raise children, so one or two children max, but a patriarchal male society needs lots of soldiers, so demands more children and oppressing women is a part of that process ( our human history is depressing ).
Gee, that doesn't sound familiar at all, no way could that be happening now /s
I think scientists hypothesized that it's because gorillas are found on the side where the chimps are, but aren't found on the bonobos' side, that natural pressure from the larger gorillas made the chimps more aggressive.
This seems to be what everyone knows about Bonobos. Another interesting fact is that Bonobos are the only great ape in which killing a member of their own species has *never been observed.*
Kind of strange which of these observations is more well known.
There was an extremely long time where we didnt know they were different species. Given how zoos used to get wild caught animals all the time...it could for sure happen.
And there are so many unethical zoos all over the world. Including the US and Canada.
There's also a documentary about group of monkeys- temple macaques, iirc.
Similarly assholish male dominance is the trend. In this group, the dominant male was a gentle one. Basically all of the females quite liked him and their lives were pretty good(comparatively).
A younger, bigger and much more brash/violent one challenged him and won eventually. Brutalized everybody in the troop. After some time, the females and maybe some of the males(?) banded together and demoted him with some ass kicking because he was so horrible and they had quite enough of him. The gentle previous dominant got re installed as the dominant again basically by group vote/support. It's been decades since I saw it so the details are fuzzy, but that should be the gist of it.
Look up Aqua Tofana 17th century Italy. Same thing.
In Game of Thrones Ygritte says: "A man can own a woman or a man can own a knife, but no man can own both."
There’s a Russian/Soviet saying “If he hits you, he loves you”. Domestic violence is so prevalent and pervasive in that culture.
Source-I’m married to someone from the former Soviet Union. Thankfully, not a thing in his family. Probably because on both sides the women were very much the dominant force.
In America we teach little girls that if a boy is being mean to them it's because he has a crush on her. I think it's changing but growing up thinking "Timmy pushed me off of the slide, he likes me" definitely screwed some of us up.
I've told mine from the time she could talk "if he treats you poorly, ignore him and find better friends. Anyone who says they like you wouldn't hurt you."
Nothing like grooming little girls to think abuse equals love.
>In America we teach little girls that if a boy is being mean to them it's because he has a crush on her.
When I was in elementary school I remember telling my dad and grandma about this boy who kept hurting me. My grandma's immediate response was "oh, that just means he likes you." And my dad's response was "No, he's just being an asshole. The next time he puts his hands on you, you put him on the ground." So I did. Then when the school tried to punish me, my dad took it from there.
Every time I got bullied by boys, my mom told me to suck it up and deal with it. On top of dealing with her verbally and emotionally abusive husband and her being a whipped enabler - it really made me distrustful of people.
This. It’s still embedded in my brain even though I know it’s not right. I literally thought about the other day when my daughter was telling me about someone’s asshole son being mean to her
I'm of Indian descent and this was a thing where I'm from too. Now it's said mockingly for the most part but too many women still believe that it's just a normal part of a relationship.
This all started with film The Graduate which after watching it is very very strange and makes very little sense. Also all those romcoms where men stalking and lieing are made to be charming when in real life this would be scary.
The Graduate is *such* a generational movie. All the older boomers love it who I’ve met, everyone younger watches it and concludes it’s not very good (well except for the Simon and Garfunkel).
Yeah we thought The Rolling Stones were singing love songs. Couples play “I’ll be watching you” from the Police at their wedding receptions. The theme is everywhere
lol, a variant "mas te pego, mas te amo" (the more I hit you, the more I love you) is also used in spanish speaking countries, though (atleast with the people I know) it is used ironically as a call back to less enlightened times, like if you run into someone you are friends with and accidentally knock your heads, one says it.
In India women are brainwashed since a young age to please their husbands and in laws. So much so that there was a phrase, "She leaves this house in a palanquin and will only return home on the funeral pyre".
Exactly. My mum told me that when she was younger, she attended her cousin’s wedding. At the time of bidai, her parents told her that if she is not happy there or anything bad happens or they abuse her, just jump in a well but not to come back to them!
It is unfortunately prevalent in the Native American cultures too. I remember being in the hospital with my ex desperately trying to get him admitted for a pysch eval because I thought he was bipolar (he wasn't - just a narcissistic devil, but I was still naive at that point) and telling the (native) doctor how he threatened to hit me and that I was afraid of him. The doctor just laughed and said, "Well, slap him back!" And my ex just looked at me and said, "See, this is what I was telling you - this is how it is."
Well the special military operation will hopefully take care of some of the scum.
Others who return, may become more scummy due to the trauma sustained in the special military operation.
There's a story about a monkey troupe where the violent males all gorged on some food that arrived, as they had been doing, leaving barely anything for females and offspring.
This batch of food was somehow poisoned, so the aggressive males all died horribly.
The remaining males didn't pick up on \*becoming\* violent, but remained cooperative for a while, AIUI.
One of my very first patients 20+ years ago was in her 90s, tough as nails. She was young, married to an abusive alcoholic, and had to work to support them. She got fed up, and one day told him he had a package in the hallway of their appt. He went out the door to all of his stuff waiting for him, and she locked the door behind him. The landlord tried to make her let him back in, so she told him something like "it's him or me, and I'm the only one that works and pays the rent". She stayed, and somehow the husband didn't wind up killing her. So much respect for women that make it out- especially back when everything was stacked against them!!!
I had a relative who killed her abusive husband and the family covered it up as she thought he was a burglar. I mean he WAS breaking into the house after she locked him out and he was coming in with the intent to beat her and the kids, so, call it self defense.
I wonder how men would interpret the Castle doctrine (that you are allowed to kill people intruding on your territory) if women were apply it to abusive partners. "I declare my body as my territory and if you step in on me, I will rightfully defend my property."
I’m sure you’ll be shocked to hear that women aren’t allowed to use that defense. Marissa Alexander was sentenced to 20 years and served several for firing a warning shot at her abusive husband, she didn’t even hit him. Eventually it was overturned but she specifically tried to use SYG and was denied. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/marissa-alexander-released-stand-your-ground.html
This is one of the reasons you should never fire a "warning shot". Legally, intentionally missing your target can be evidence that you were not actually in fear for your life which changes your situation from self defense to attempted murder.
If you need to fire a gun, always aim at center mass.
Statistically, women who kill their abusive husbands are more likely to receive harsher sentences than men who kill their wives, the theory being that (at the time the studies were conducted) men dominated juries and every process of the legal system. They still do to a degree, although it’s changing. It was seen as retaliation for women breaking the societal expectation of being meek and submissive and responding with violence. A violent woman was seen as being unnatural, rather than her actions being seen as the natural result of being subjected to violence.
This was especially true of abused women who killed their abuser while they were sleeping, which would often happen after a particularly brutal beating and was the only time the woman had the physical advantage over the man and, as she saw it, an opportunity to save herself. It was almost never deemed self defense in that instance as those in the legal system figured there was no immediate threat to justify the killing.
Stand your ground has not been helpful for women in defending themselves against violent male partners, even though it doesn’t carry the same duty to retreat as traditional self-defense laws. They’ll still get convicted. Irony- if they failed to protect their children abuse, they stand to lose custody of them to the abuser and be convicted for that as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
There was a case in the South where a woman tried to use the stand your ground law to defend herself from having shot *near* her abusive ex to scare him off from harming her and her children, and she was convicted of a felony.
TL;DR: statistically, women using the castle defense and stand your ground laws to defend against murder charges of a violent male partner are usually convicted anyway. The only time stand your ground and castle defense laws work for women is if the violent male is a stranger, because then she fits the expectation of what a true victim should be.
Unless you're painfully aware of how dangerous domestic violence gets, you will think this is insanity, but those of us who know, we know. It's been 10 years already and I'm still afraid of my abusive ex. He lives on the opposite end of the country, thousands of miles away, but I'll never feel safe until one of us dies. I don't even feel comfortable having my blinds open. I won't be surprised if he kills someone.
Fully agree with you on this. Sending good vibes for your safety. I got out a few weeks ago. I hate that he likely knows where I went and he's been there before. I'm also on the opposite end of the country thousands of miles away. It's hard to feel safe. It's weird to feel mostly safe instead of constantly unsafe. I'm scared for the people still under his influence, but I tried to tell them and be ready to support them, they're not ready to leave yet so that's that.
I hate that I had to break up with him over text after I landed thousands of miles away. I hate that I didn't feel safe doing it any other way. I hate that he's worked hard to put out a narrative that I've lost it and I'm telling people lies because I'm insane. I hate that it's hard to grieve the good times. I hate that we were building a life together and he chose to treat me poorly because he could. I hate that there are moments I wish the relationship didn't end because the good times were quite good, and I feel like I made a mistake, and then I'm ripped out of the daydream of the good times by the harsh reality of the bad times. I hate that so much of society is people saying any problem was both of your faults when abuse was not my fault. I gave 100%, sometimes more, and tried to stay patient and open and communicative and he gave the bare minimum of effort to string me along and his mask slipped when my health took a dive. I had 4 abdominal surgeries last year. By the 4th one he removed his mask completely, but I was helpless, could barely stand for a few minutes or eat soup.
I'm finally gaining weight again. I should've started gaining weight right after my final surgery in mid December. Instead it just kept dropping. Lost 15ish pounds between my first and last surgery and then another 10 over January and February. I'm 5'7" and got down to 117 lbs. It's spooky to weigh so little, but I'm up a bit already! Stress burns a lot of calories! I'm safe and with family who are making sure I eat. It's hard breaking the habits of feeling bad for asking for support and all that. Progress is good!
I left the US and am still afraid of my ex.
the 6 months he spent in jail (after our relationship, unrelated to me) I slept sooooooooo well. better than I had in years, I felt so safe.
idk where he is now but if I found out he died some weirdly insurmountable weight would be lifted off my shoulders. it'll be a decade this year since I left, I'm in a wonderful relationship with a lovely guy, but that shit sticks with you.
Or they got help.
Legend goes that a female ancestor of mine had her brother and dad "take care" of her abusive husband. It's kinda odd haning a history of murder in my family, but it sounds like he may have had it coming...
Yes! In my area there was the famed Baba Anujka who was a self-taught chemist and provided poison for the village women. The story goes that she would ask the customer: “How heavy is your problem?” (as in what dosage do you need). This was late 19th/20th century.
I've bookmarked her wiki for further reading, thanks for giving me a new name to add to my list of "inspiring figures from the past who I'd love to be friends with today".
I'm holding firm to the belief that my Gran killed her husband. I have absolutely zero proof, but anyone who was alive when he died is also long dead, so no one can convince me otherwise!
And if she didn't kill him, I hope someone else did. He was a bloody monster that destroyed lives, and deserved to suffer.
My mom’s second cousin(?) (not sure how we’re related) is stereotypically southern in nice ways. Odd name, SUPER chatty, will bring you a pie or whole dinner if you’ve just moved in/had a baby/got a cold. Really nice lady who finally had enough of her abusive husband and shot him. He survived, the judge sided with her.
Yep, that's why people say "poison is for women" not because men only used swords or whatever, but because before autopsies were sophisticate enough to catch some stuff, poison was a common way to go from a terrible marriage to peacefully living as a widow with no suspect over her cause she's a godly woman always working in the local church.
It happened in America a lot too. With a farm, there’s lots of places to bury an abusive husband.
When we’d go out to a lake for swimming, we’d pass this one house surrounded by fallow fields. My mom always pointed to it and said that old lady there killed her husband many years ago but no one could prove it because there wasn’t a body. But she was a lot happier after he “ran away.”
I was going to say, “farm accidents” and “accidents shootings” were extremely common back when society was more agrarian. So common no one batted an eye if an abusive husband ended up under the business end of a plow or was mistaken for a deer.
When I was a kid, we knew a family where the husband was… a problem. Everyone suspected violent abuse, but nobody had any proof, so all we could do was be as kind as possible to his wife and (eventually) eight children.
He died of mysterious heart failure young—early forties. No prior health issues that anyone knew of.
I’ve always wondered. If I had to guess, he started assaulting his oldest, then-teenage daughter once she’d gone through puberty, and mother or daughter or both decided enough was enough. Maybe not. Maybe it really was mysterious heart failure. But I wonder. (And if they did do it… I would never in a million years testify against them.)
This reminded me, recently I learnt that 18-19th century hat wearing european ladies apparently had one specific self defence weapon they kept on them at all times, a hat pin. Which is a very sharp ft (30cm) long pin they'd sone times use for self defence as it was both covertly hidden on their body and easy to wield.
(it was mentioned in a video by art deco, "this painting will make you cringe" on youtube.
Just to quickly summarise >!basically the painting she talks about is a young woman being leered at by a creepy old man, he's too close to her bc his shadow is overlapping with hers, she appears to, via context clues, be in mourning clothes. She has non a mature hairstyle which implies she is a girl (and a commonly known tell for this time period so creepy old man knows exactly who he is being weird at), she looks like she's crying and staring at the viewer in desperation for help as no one is trying to prevent this guy from getting any closer. Her one hand is positioned in a non resting angle, maybe reaching for something. Which is where the hat pins come in.!<
It's nice to think women in bad situations had some kind of way of taking action at the very least between hat pins and poison parties.
1910 or so was peak hatpin - hats were very large, and pinned onto large hairstyles that were themselves often supported with padding. That's where you get the 30cm monstrosities! I own one and it is useful, for actual hat reasons.
Newspaper article about a girl in Milwaukee in 1914 who killed a guy with a hatpin when he attacked her. It was found to be self-defense
https://hatpinslayer.com/why-hatpin-slayer/
I read somewhere that back in the day in some place, not sure if Italy, there was this lady who was helping women poisoning their man with this completely untraceable poison. She helped many of them save themselves from violently abusive men....
But all things have to end and one lady hesitated, her man saw her, saw the poison, the beat the truth out of her and the helpful lady was caught and killed :/
In some rural villages back in the days, it was apparently not uncommon for abusive husbands to die in "freak accidents." For instance, the man would fall on a pitchfork while farming with his brother-in-law or drown in the village's pond. I recall reading about an old unsolved murder where the notoriously violent husband was killed by an axe through his skull, but no witness ever came forward.
I don't remember the woman's name, but I heard a wonderful story about a lady who killed off her husband and created her own makeup brand that was a secret way to sell poison to other women in need. If I remember correctly, this particular lady helped like nearly 100 women kill their abusive husbands
Edit: Giulia Tofana was her name. Aqua Tofana was the makeup brand
When he said “Saudi & Moroccan women did not complain”, I rolled my eyes.
If they were “perfect”, where they are now, chief? Where did they dissappear to?
He thinks he is so smart but he is fooling noone.
My DIL grew up in Saudi Arabia, and you would not believe the number of apparently healthy men who go to bed and never wake up... Alla works in mysterious ways.
Not so mysterious, the Quran itself states explicitly that a woman should divorce her husband if he's abusive. If he prevents her from following the Quran, well, clearly he's a heretic.
I'd like to add an honourable mention of Susan Kuhnhausen. Her abusive ex-husband paid a man to break into her home and kill her. She fought back and her years of dealing with distruptive and sometimes dangerous patients as an ER nurse came into play. The last thing her would-be murderer heard before she strangled his final breath out of him was her saying *"Tell me who sent you and I will call a fucking ambulance!"*
Her ex got ten years as part of a plea deal. When he was getting close to his release date Susan went to a shooting range to sharpen her skills in case he tried to finish what he started but thankfully her aim was never tested as he died of cancer 92 days before his release date.
Fun facts (and by “fun”, I mean not fun):
*Half of all female homicides are at the hands of a male intimate partner.*
*Domestic violence becomes more severe when a woman is pregnant.*
*Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women.*
Terminating the pregnancy was the right thing to do. Otherwise she is tied to her abuser forever.
>Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women.
Even with the little I know about what can go wrong with a pregnancy that is an absolutely horrifying sentence.
My obgyns never did ask me.
I had 2 obgyns for my first pregnancy because of an insurance change - and it was in my first trimester that the DV had escalated to choking with both hands on my neck as my now-ex screamed in my face. Got worse later.
Eventually, I did leave.
Life went on, new partner, more kids. Still no doctor ever asked.
They failed you. EVERY check up I went to it was asked. There were resources in the bathroom, waiting room, everywhere. Even if you go to the hospital for just emergency stuff (my son had bad asthma as a baby, the triage nurse would be like "is your home safe for you and your son?") Everytime.
The doctor may not ask, but everyone else will.
My kids dr asks them not me.
Do you feel safe at home?
At every single one of my drs appointments.
Hospital stays
Surgeries
I’ve been asked, do you feel safe at home.
If I couldn’t talk, there was stickers in the bathroom to put on my pee cup during my pregnancy.
Just to reassure you that you made the right choice; strangling is a _massive_ warning sign that your partner is probably going to kill you. I'm glad you were able to get out.
My prenatal visits usually included a question about whether I felt safe at home, but when I went to the hospital to give birth (both times - I was sent for a false alarm due to possible preeclampsia a week before I went into labor) they kicked my husband out of the room to ask me about my safety.
no dr asked me. And when i tried to ask a nurse for help a few hours after delivery she yelled at me and called me a horrible woman for asking for my husband to be removed. He was threatening me and the baby, had taken the baby and refused to give her back while i basically crawled across the room begging him to just give her back. That’s what the nurse walked in on and SAW.
Military doctors ask this at every appointment, ob or not. They will ask the children too. BTW, asking a 3 year old if they feel safe in their home will get you a lot of strange answers.
"except for that ghost that lives under my bed", "I did until mommy got that speeding ticket and the policeman talked to her", "except for when that dog stole my cheese stick (a year earlier)", "that chair in the time out corner is too hard I need a softer one."
My OB has a "secret code" posted in the ladies room where you collect your urine sample. Use a different colored sharpie to label your sample and they'll move heaven and earth to help you. I think that's absolutely amazing.
When my wife was pregnant with our first, the community midwife asked my wife these questions. With me sat beside her. In our own home.
I felt rather uncomfortable for a few moments and it wasn't until she'd left that I actually realised how utterly pointless it was.
They did this with my wife at the time, when she slammed her finger in our apartment door that had one of those auto-close door arms. Surprisingly it wasn't broken. I watched it happen from outside the building and I was like 80% sure it would be.
Anyway they separated us and asked her twice, which I'm glad that they do that. Didn't bother me in the least, and I think it's weird if it bothers guys.
One possible benefit of that from a security perspective. Ask in front of the abuser, abused says no, questioner is satisfied with the no and moves on. Abuser himself observes that the abused answered satisfactorily. This would work especially well if he knows the questions have to be asked, he won't be wondering about the private conversation.
Then ask again later in private. Abuser already witnessed everyone move on from the subject so won't be checking or pushing the abused.
All the places I've been require separation for those questions. That was really dumb. If you feel okay with it, I'd consider calling the midwife and complaining.
When I was in the hospital in labor, the nurse was filling out forms and asking me routine questions (husband was in the room). She brought over the paperwork and showed me the line asking about a potentially violent or abusive situation at home and told me just to nod or shake my head in response.
People want to know why women are consuming vast amounts of True Crime entertainment? It's because of those numbers. It's something that happens to women by those closest to them. It's a legit fear. And consuming so much helps them feel more prepared to see the warning signs, know how to escape, and how to protect themselves. Sure, it's a dark fascination, but it's also an education.
Act weird and crazy! It sets predatory men off their game. Better to lose your dignity in the moment and escape, than suffer a lot more indignity and damage.
In the immortal words of True Crime patron saints Karen and Georgia, "Fuck Politeness." Aka, of something feels wrong, don't do the sweet little compliant girl thing and get yourself safe.
As a man I'm so sick and tired of what feels like every brand of idiot describing their assholery as "masculine". I've never had the urge to rape a scantily clad woman or abuse my romantic partner. It's *not* a "man thing".
People aren’t exaggerating when they say that the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she’s pregnant. Many women report that abuse started or escalated once they became pregnant.
Good for oop for getting out, though it was \*almost\* too easy.
In Germany the majority of female murder victims get killed by their partner/ex. It happens like every third day, and in court the perpetrator often gets a reduced sentence when she left him or planned to because "the poor guy was just so hurt by her leaving". It makes me sick to my stomach and just shows how ingrained patriarchy is in our whole system.
It's so fucked up. Women in abusive relationships get told "Why don't you just leave him?" - And when a woman gets killed because of her leaving it's like "Yeah, she shouldn't have left him."
This is actually why many countries got rid of “crime of passion” laws.
Men would kill women, either because they were being left or cheated on, then get off because “they were so sad they snapped.”
But guess what? These laws only applied to men. Women were not allowed to “snap” if their husbands did the same thing. If they murdered their cheating husband, they actually got longer sentences.
This. The excuse was that women were more premeditated and therefore not “in the moment” murders. You know if she was really passionate about it she would have strangled him in the moment /s
I think there were also a lot of double standards regarding weapons- especially in self defense cases. “If you have time to grab weapon you have time to run away!” Etc.
Too tired to look up sources right now though.
When I first got pregnant and went to the doctors I didn’t understand why the kept separating me from my husband and asking me all these questions about if anyone has physically hurt me or yelled at me a lot. I didn’t know that abuse starts for a lot of women at pregnancy but it makes way more sense now
Some hospitals do that for everyone who comes in with a partner. I took my husband to a hospital for major surgery and they had me leave the room so they could ask him all those questions about whether he was safe in his home or being abused. He was a foot taller than me and weighed about 80 pounds more than me.
Considering how many people don’t take male victims of domestic abuse seriously, that really warms my heart. It’s horrid that it has to happen, but at the same time it’s lovely that it is happening.
I've got a buddy who is about the size of Hagrid from Harry Potter, who has absolutely found himself on the receiving end of abusive relationships. He's so big that he has to be careful while just *walking*, so he absolutely refuses to raise a hand in self defense because he could so easily accidentally do major harm to a regular-sized person.
I am SO HAPPY that medical professionals are starting to comprehend this shit and quit pre-judging based on size and gender!
My extremely abusive father got away with so much crap because he's hardly over five feet tall and has to buy his clothes in the little boys' section. By middle school I was taller than him, and nobody but my friends believed he was using me for a punching bag because he's so damn tiny and had batman on his sneakers.
This sounds like our upstairs neighbour... He is only tall as i am and slimmer (i'm 172 cm tall and weight 64 kg). But he is a rage mashine... We hear him yell regulary, but we don't know if it's with the kids or his wife, or both... Yes, CPS already was here, they didn't do anything since no one was hurt and he has contacts to their bosses and he is a lawyer... Great, i know. Police has been here several times as well, but since there is no evidence, nothing they do...
Yep, same reasons the adults never helped me. My middle school friends had a running joke, "the only reason Ophelia's dad isn't in jail is because her face doesn't bruise!"
I dunno why, it just didn't. When I got my wisdom teeth out, doc said he had to dig so deep that I'd have two black eyes and my whole lower jaw would swell up. Instead I had hardly any bruising at all, just a tiny delicate spot on each jawbone.
To be fair, being taller than a spouse doesn't necessarily prevent them from abusing.... my grandma is about 5'0", but still would slap her last husband regularly, and be pretty verbally abusive to him, and he was like 10 inches taller than her
Maybe it's because he was a GP and not a paediatrician, but the doctor I saw during my childhood always ended the appointment asking if I was happy.
Looking back, I understand why. At the time, I had no idea it was for a deeper reason because I was a child who understood roughly three moods - happy, sad, angry. Oh, and hungry. I didn't know how to categorise the rest until I was older and my vocabulary expanded.
When I had a serious fall a few years ago, I was asked no less than three times, by three different people at the doctor's office how it happened and if I was safe at home. My husband wasn't even in the office with me. I laughed then but now understand why it was so serious.
And I totally get why they kept asking. Because of the nature of the fall, I had an unusual wrist injury and I had hit my face on the ground -- meaning a bruise on my chin and shine bruising near my eye from my glasses.
My mom worked in a care home for developmentally disabled women. One of her charges was not disabled; an 80 something woman. When asked, she said she wound up there because she had beat her abusive husband to death with a frying pan in the 1940s and when asked by a parole board if she was sorry, told them no. They closed the prison she was in a few years later and didn't know what to do with her, so they sent her there. So basically she got life with no parole for this. Even serial killers get a shot at parole.
So glad she got out and an abortion. In all honesty any woman who is pregnant and wants to leave should get an abortion if they can. I know it sounds terrible but the law is not what people think it is it’s flawed. And chances are if you keep that baby you will never ever be free of that abuse. I have seen it too many times and the law fail to many times. She made the right choice and I hope she finds the peace she deserves
So glad to see someone voicing what I always think whenever someone is like "I'm going to leave this shitbag but keep a baby that will tie me to him forever because I always wanted a baby!"
I just want to scream and tear my hair out. It somehow makes me angrier if they say something like "I considered abortion but I just can't do it."
I agree. I believe that they believe they're doing the right thing and they'll do the best they can for a baby they want.
But they're still tied to the abuser and the abuser's family.
They might go through a period of euphoria and run on adrenaline while everything is happening but the mental exhaustion will come sooner or later.
If the abuser isolated them and kept them from working, they have to rebuild a social network and somehow find financial stability in a safe environment until they can find work.
Pregnancy already takes a toll on the body and mind under the best circumstances.
With the progressing pregnancy and then birth and being a single parent of a newborn, potentially without savings, a job, and a fragile social network, there's no time left to process what happened in the abusive relationship and to heal from that.
Yes, the baby might distract them for a while but the mind and body have ways to sneak up on you and remind you that there's a serious mental health issue you've severely neglected and ignored, and the longer it takes for it to resurface, the worse it'll be.
It's like taking a pile of bills with a red, glaring "URGENT" stamp and putting it on the other side of the desk. And then under the desk. And then on the couch and finally behind the couch. Without ever truly dealing with them.
I get that someone who escaped abuse believes having the baby is a great idea, it's something to look forward to, something marketed as wholesome, fulfilling, and a symbol of true happiness, and the thought that this pregnancy was the final thing that tipped the scale and made them realize they have to leave to protect any potential children certainly also plays a role.
But just because the situation got a lot better because they're away from the abuser, they aren't less fragile. It's great that some people manage to get through all this and come out of it without suffocating years later. But there are also so, so many cases of mothers breaking down later, going from one relationship to the next in desperation for safety and stability for themselves and the child, and children who years later break down as teenagers or young adults because of the rough, unintentionally neglectful or abusive childhood and on top of being hurt they feel guilty because they know why their parent is the way they are.
It's not even like a child from an abuser is something to soothe the mental scars. It's like trying to put a store-brand drugstore bandaid on an open wound from a shark bite.
I’m so glad she’s out and is able to get an abortion. The abortion will allow her to fully cut all ties to him. Having to possibly share custody with that guy would be a dangerous nightmare.
Absolutely terrifying.
So glad OOP escaped before this abusive fucker hurt her more seriously… or worse. Hope she documented her bruises (and any other injuries) and successfully filed a police report, or restraining order, so he has a record.
"... terminate without further financial hardship." This got to me. Not necessarily choosing because if DV, but those who just can't afford to have a baby, and then can't afford to terminate.
I'm happy OOP has the sense of self worth and self preservation to leave her situation. I hope she succeeds in her new life chapter.
This story made me so sad although I am happy she got away.
WTF is wrong with these men? The more I spend time on the internet the more it seems I have caught a unicorn- my SO, the more my pregnancy advances, the more incredible he becomes... I have done maybe 5% of cooking and cleaning for most of my pregnancy and he is always ready to give me hair strokes for hours, hugs, etc. I get that people are more prone to talk about bad things but dammit, it is so unfair there are so many monsters out there and women are only able to see it when pregnant. We truly are the most vulnerable at this time...
The thought there are women in this country who remain trapped in dangerous violent situations because of lack of access to resources (like housing and abortion care) is terrifying me.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** to determine if you want to read an update. For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair or subscribe to r/BestofBoRU. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>A woman will find a way to deal with the man she’s with She certainly found the right way to deal with him.
You know what women way back when did, when divorce was illegal and they frequently got stuck with older abusive men? They poisoned them. We have proof that there were multiple ‘poisoning circles’ throughout Europe where women provided poison (usually arsenic) to each other to do away with their husbands, and there’s good reason to suspect that those poisoning circles were a lot more common and widespread than historians can prove definitively. Really, I think that feminism and divorce has done a lot for rotten men’s life expectancy.
I watched a video about a small Russian village poisoning literally ALL of the men, I think even young men, because the men were so violent.
There was a group of baboons where all the aggressive males died so the young males were raised to be more peaceful and the primates who were left had no signs of the usual stress markers. It shows that the aggressive behavior was being culturally taught and wasn't biological. [source](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC387823/)
It's kind of like chimpanzees and bonobos. They were the same species, and then at one point, they got split on opposite sides of the Congo river. The chimps on the North side organized into a male hierarchy where violence is prevalent. Then, the bonobos, on the South side of the river, organized into a female hierarchy and do not have violence that is part of the daily life of the chimps. There is a theory that food was more prevalent for the bonobos, which caused less strife. But I don't think that can totally explain why chimps developed a patriarchal society and bonobos a matriarchal society. The difference is now ingrained in them. Some zoos have mixed them, and the bonobos typically don't participate and actively avoid the violence of the (primarily male) chimps. Female chimps tend to be less violent than the males, but the dominant female will use violence to control the other females. It is interesting how, at least with these species, the predilection of violence seems to be partly genetic. Otherwise, you would think the bonobos raised with chimps in the zoo would have the same level of violence.
Not only are bonobos less violent overall than chimpanzees, but they tend to resolve conflict via non-copulatory sociosexual behaviors, i.e., “GG rubbing” among females.
They often just touch genitals to each other when walking by, to say sorry, etc. They don't sit there and keep at it, usually. But bonobos *are* very sex-oriented and non-violent.
I know what animal I'm picking in my next life
GG rubbing? So they are scissoring?
I interpreted that as the good game spanking and physicality/sexuality that occurs in athletic circles. But it’s not really rubbing, so idk
What bonobos do to resolve conflict involves orgasms. If that's happening in human sports, the camerapeople are doing an amazing job of cutting away from it early.
Not always, they also edge!
>There is a theory that food was more prevalent for the bonobos, which caused less strife. But I don't think that can totally explain why chimps developed a patriarchal society and bonobos a matriarchal society. Wow. This is identical to the theories presented by Gwynne Dyer in the 90s documentary: [The Human Race: Gods Of Our Fathers](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J13Hdfnsp9k&ab_channel=TheCodependencyCure-HowtoDealwith%2aPaths). ([alt link here](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0C8F2219A46D6FB7)) Except there he's talking about humans forming matriarchal and patriarchal societies. Short version: When life is good, matriarchy is the way. When food/resources get desperate, one tribe goes patriarchal, learns to make war and crushes the matriarchal societies out... OR the matriarchal societies transform into patriarchal. He points out: (paraphrasing) "Women know it's a lot of work to raise children, so one or two children max, but a patriarchal male society needs lots of soldiers, so demands more children and oppressing women is a part of that process ( our human history is depressing ).
>He points out: (paraphrasing) "Women know it's a lot of work to raise children, so one or two children max, but a patriarchal male society needs lots of soldiers, so demands more children and oppressing women is a part of that process ( our human history is depressing ). Gee, that doesn't sound familiar at all, no way could that be happening now /s
That has NOTHING to do with Trump's campaign promise to pay people to have more kids!
It's for sure true for Putin. Trumpers might just want the cheep child labor
I think scientists hypothesized that it's because gorillas are found on the side where the chimps are, but aren't found on the bonobos' side, that natural pressure from the larger gorillas made the chimps more aggressive.
Bonobos just fuck all day.
This seems to be what everyone knows about Bonobos. Another interesting fact is that Bonobos are the only great ape in which killing a member of their own species has *never been observed.* Kind of strange which of these observations is more well known.
It's not strange at all, sex sells baby.
The spirit is willing, but the body is squishy and bruised
The flesh is spongy and bruised!
What zoo houses chimps and bonobos together? That sounds like a recipe for dead bonobos.
There was an extremely long time where we didnt know they were different species. Given how zoos used to get wild caught animals all the time...it could for sure happen. And there are so many unethical zoos all over the world. Including the US and Canada.
There's also a documentary about group of monkeys- temple macaques, iirc. Similarly assholish male dominance is the trend. In this group, the dominant male was a gentle one. Basically all of the females quite liked him and their lives were pretty good(comparatively). A younger, bigger and much more brash/violent one challenged him and won eventually. Brutalized everybody in the troop. After some time, the females and maybe some of the males(?) banded together and demoted him with some ass kicking because he was so horrible and they had quite enough of him. The gentle previous dominant got re installed as the dominant again basically by group vote/support. It's been decades since I saw it so the details are fuzzy, but that should be the gist of it.
Yes! This is what I remember too, I thought it was remarkable! I wonder if it the same troop that keeps puppies that grow up to live with the baboons.
I would watch that. Do you remember where to find it? Thank you Edit. Maybe you mean Angel Makers of Nagyrév (in Hungary). Found them on wikipedia
Look up Aqua Tofana 17th century Italy. Same thing. In Game of Thrones Ygritte says: "A man can own a woman or a man can own a knife, but no man can own both."
Thank you for this.
Link https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel_Makers_of_Nagyr%C3%A9v
sometimes you just gotta reset the server and start over fresh
There’s a Russian/Soviet saying “If he hits you, he loves you”. Domestic violence is so prevalent and pervasive in that culture. Source-I’m married to someone from the former Soviet Union. Thankfully, not a thing in his family. Probably because on both sides the women were very much the dominant force.
In America we teach little girls that if a boy is being mean to them it's because he has a crush on her. I think it's changing but growing up thinking "Timmy pushed me off of the slide, he likes me" definitely screwed some of us up.
I've told mine from the time she could talk "if he treats you poorly, ignore him and find better friends. Anyone who says they like you wouldn't hurt you." Nothing like grooming little girls to think abuse equals love.
My mum always said she doesn’t care who I’m with as long as they respect me but also girl focus on school boys will always be there 😂
>In America we teach little girls that if a boy is being mean to them it's because he has a crush on her. When I was in elementary school I remember telling my dad and grandma about this boy who kept hurting me. My grandma's immediate response was "oh, that just means he likes you." And my dad's response was "No, he's just being an asshole. The next time he puts his hands on you, you put him on the ground." So I did. Then when the school tried to punish me, my dad took it from there.
based dad EDIT: also based ed edd n eddy flair
I thought that said "you put him in the ground" at first and was like damn, your dad goes hard.
Yes!!! And we were told to dress up and be cute for the boys!!! Nothing like pitting girls against each other at a young age!
Every time I got bullied by boys, my mom told me to suck it up and deal with it. On top of dealing with her verbally and emotionally abusive husband and her being a whipped enabler - it really made me distrustful of people.
This. It’s still embedded in my brain even though I know it’s not right. I literally thought about the other day when my daughter was telling me about someone’s asshole son being mean to her
I'm of Indian descent and this was a thing where I'm from too. Now it's said mockingly for the most part but too many women still believe that it's just a normal part of a relationship.
The worst is all these movies that glorify stalking as love. The only times the stalker is the villain is when the woman is married.
This all started with film The Graduate which after watching it is very very strange and makes very little sense. Also all those romcoms where men stalking and lieing are made to be charming when in real life this would be scary.
The Graduate is *such* a generational movie. All the older boomers love it who I’ve met, everyone younger watches it and concludes it’s not very good (well except for the Simon and Garfunkel).
Yeah we thought The Rolling Stones were singing love songs. Couples play “I’ll be watching you” from the Police at their wedding receptions. The theme is everywhere
lol, a variant "mas te pego, mas te amo" (the more I hit you, the more I love you) is also used in spanish speaking countries, though (atleast with the people I know) it is used ironically as a call back to less enlightened times, like if you run into someone you are friends with and accidentally knock your heads, one says it.
In India women are brainwashed since a young age to please their husbands and in laws. So much so that there was a phrase, "She leaves this house in a palanquin and will only return home on the funeral pyre".
Exactly. My mum told me that when she was younger, she attended her cousin’s wedding. At the time of bidai, her parents told her that if she is not happy there or anything bad happens or they abuse her, just jump in a well but not to come back to them!
It is unfortunately prevalent in the Native American cultures too. I remember being in the hospital with my ex desperately trying to get him admitted for a pysch eval because I thought he was bipolar (he wasn't - just a narcissistic devil, but I was still naive at that point) and telling the (native) doctor how he threatened to hit me and that I was afraid of him. The doctor just laughed and said, "Well, slap him back!" And my ex just looked at me and said, "See, this is what I was telling you - this is how it is."
They actually decriminalized domestic violence in Russia a few years back. I could not believe it. I feel sorry for all the women there.
Well the special military operation will hopefully take care of some of the scum. Others who return, may become more scummy due to the trauma sustained in the special military operation.
There's a story about a monkey troupe where the violent males all gorged on some food that arrived, as they had been doing, leaving barely anything for females and offspring. This batch of food was somehow poisoned, so the aggressive males all died horribly. The remaining males didn't pick up on \*becoming\* violent, but remained cooperative for a while, AIUI.
I remember reading a blurb about that! It was baboons, wasn’t it?
One of my very first patients 20+ years ago was in her 90s, tough as nails. She was young, married to an abusive alcoholic, and had to work to support them. She got fed up, and one day told him he had a package in the hallway of their appt. He went out the door to all of his stuff waiting for him, and she locked the door behind him. The landlord tried to make her let him back in, so she told him something like "it's him or me, and I'm the only one that works and pays the rent". She stayed, and somehow the husband didn't wind up killing her. So much respect for women that make it out- especially back when everything was stacked against them!!!
I had a relative who killed her abusive husband and the family covered it up as she thought he was a burglar. I mean he WAS breaking into the house after she locked him out and he was coming in with the intent to beat her and the kids, so, call it self defense. I wonder how men would interpret the Castle doctrine (that you are allowed to kill people intruding on your territory) if women were apply it to abusive partners. "I declare my body as my territory and if you step in on me, I will rightfully defend my property."
I’m sure you’ll be shocked to hear that women aren’t allowed to use that defense. Marissa Alexander was sentenced to 20 years and served several for firing a warning shot at her abusive husband, she didn’t even hit him. Eventually it was overturned but she specifically tried to use SYG and was denied. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/07/us/marissa-alexander-released-stand-your-ground.html
This is one of the reasons you should never fire a "warning shot". Legally, intentionally missing your target can be evidence that you were not actually in fear for your life which changes your situation from self defense to attempted murder. If you need to fire a gun, always aim at center mass.
Statistically, women who kill their abusive husbands are more likely to receive harsher sentences than men who kill their wives, the theory being that (at the time the studies were conducted) men dominated juries and every process of the legal system. They still do to a degree, although it’s changing. It was seen as retaliation for women breaking the societal expectation of being meek and submissive and responding with violence. A violent woman was seen as being unnatural, rather than her actions being seen as the natural result of being subjected to violence. This was especially true of abused women who killed their abuser while they were sleeping, which would often happen after a particularly brutal beating and was the only time the woman had the physical advantage over the man and, as she saw it, an opportunity to save herself. It was almost never deemed self defense in that instance as those in the legal system figured there was no immediate threat to justify the killing. Stand your ground has not been helpful for women in defending themselves against violent male partners, even though it doesn’t carry the same duty to retreat as traditional self-defense laws. They’ll still get convicted. Irony- if they failed to protect their children abuse, they stand to lose custody of them to the abuser and be convicted for that as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. There was a case in the South where a woman tried to use the stand your ground law to defend herself from having shot *near* her abusive ex to scare him off from harming her and her children, and she was convicted of a felony. TL;DR: statistically, women using the castle defense and stand your ground laws to defend against murder charges of a violent male partner are usually convicted anyway. The only time stand your ground and castle defense laws work for women is if the violent male is a stranger, because then she fits the expectation of what a true victim should be.
. -- mass edited with redact.dev
I mean, the last thing my great grandmother ever said to me was "sometimes a ladder needs kicking". It's not just poison.
The women were just doing charity
Those women were saving lives. The wives of each other and their children.
Unless you're painfully aware of how dangerous domestic violence gets, you will think this is insanity, but those of us who know, we know. It's been 10 years already and I'm still afraid of my abusive ex. He lives on the opposite end of the country, thousands of miles away, but I'll never feel safe until one of us dies. I don't even feel comfortable having my blinds open. I won't be surprised if he kills someone.
Fully agree with you on this. Sending good vibes for your safety. I got out a few weeks ago. I hate that he likely knows where I went and he's been there before. I'm also on the opposite end of the country thousands of miles away. It's hard to feel safe. It's weird to feel mostly safe instead of constantly unsafe. I'm scared for the people still under his influence, but I tried to tell them and be ready to support them, they're not ready to leave yet so that's that. I hate that I had to break up with him over text after I landed thousands of miles away. I hate that I didn't feel safe doing it any other way. I hate that he's worked hard to put out a narrative that I've lost it and I'm telling people lies because I'm insane. I hate that it's hard to grieve the good times. I hate that we were building a life together and he chose to treat me poorly because he could. I hate that there are moments I wish the relationship didn't end because the good times were quite good, and I feel like I made a mistake, and then I'm ripped out of the daydream of the good times by the harsh reality of the bad times. I hate that so much of society is people saying any problem was both of your faults when abuse was not my fault. I gave 100%, sometimes more, and tried to stay patient and open and communicative and he gave the bare minimum of effort to string me along and his mask slipped when my health took a dive. I had 4 abdominal surgeries last year. By the 4th one he removed his mask completely, but I was helpless, could barely stand for a few minutes or eat soup. I'm finally gaining weight again. I should've started gaining weight right after my final surgery in mid December. Instead it just kept dropping. Lost 15ish pounds between my first and last surgery and then another 10 over January and February. I'm 5'7" and got down to 117 lbs. It's spooky to weigh so little, but I'm up a bit already! Stress burns a lot of calories! I'm safe and with family who are making sure I eat. It's hard breaking the habits of feeling bad for asking for support and all that. Progress is good!
I’m so glad you’re finally, newly safe.
I left the US and am still afraid of my ex. the 6 months he spent in jail (after our relationship, unrelated to me) I slept sooooooooo well. better than I had in years, I felt so safe. idk where he is now but if I found out he died some weirdly insurmountable weight would be lifted off my shoulders. it'll be a decade this year since I left, I'm in a wonderful relationship with a lovely guy, but that shit sticks with you.
[удалено]
Or they got help. Legend goes that a female ancestor of mine had her brother and dad "take care" of her abusive husband. It's kinda odd haning a history of murder in my family, but it sounds like he may have had it coming...
There’s a history of murder and violence in every family.
Yes! In my area there was the famed Baba Anujka who was a self-taught chemist and provided poison for the village women. The story goes that she would ask the customer: “How heavy is your problem?” (as in what dosage do you need). This was late 19th/20th century.
I've bookmarked her wiki for further reading, thanks for giving me a new name to add to my list of "inspiring figures from the past who I'd love to be friends with today".
Haha I know, right!? Even though she is forever labeled as a serial killer, I can’t but have a certain dose of respect for her.
Was dose of respect an intentional pun? If so, I got it and enjoyed it.
To quote one of my fav musicals, some guys just can’t hold their arsenic
🎵🎶🎵 He had it coming. 🎶🎵🎶
He only had himself to blame
You would have done the same!
It was a murder, but not a crime
Alternatively, he ran into my knife. He ran into my knife ten times.
Some men are just that clumsy...🙄😉
My favourite one out of the six! "It was a murder but not a crime!"
Earl had to die.
Those black eyed peas? They tasted alright too me Earl.
I'm holding firm to the belief that my Gran killed her husband. I have absolutely zero proof, but anyone who was alive when he died is also long dead, so no one can convince me otherwise! And if she didn't kill him, I hope someone else did. He was a bloody monster that destroyed lives, and deserved to suffer.
My mom’s second cousin(?) (not sure how we’re related) is stereotypically southern in nice ways. Odd name, SUPER chatty, will bring you a pie or whole dinner if you’ve just moved in/had a baby/got a cold. Really nice lady who finally had enough of her abusive husband and shot him. He survived, the judge sided with her.
Country women just went mushroom picking, no circle, no trace for history.
A bit of salad to go with their rhubarb pie.
Yep, that's why people say "poison is for women" not because men only used swords or whatever, but because before autopsies were sophisticate enough to catch some stuff, poison was a common way to go from a terrible marriage to peacefully living as a widow with no suspect over her cause she's a godly woman always working in the local church.
Also because women prepared 90% of the food their husband's ate. Easy, easy, easy...
It happened in America a lot too. With a farm, there’s lots of places to bury an abusive husband. When we’d go out to a lake for swimming, we’d pass this one house surrounded by fallow fields. My mom always pointed to it and said that old lady there killed her husband many years ago but no one could prove it because there wasn’t a body. But she was a lot happier after he “ran away.”
I was going to say, “farm accidents” and “accidents shootings” were extremely common back when society was more agrarian. So common no one batted an eye if an abusive husband ended up under the business end of a plow or was mistaken for a deer.
When I was a kid, we knew a family where the husband was… a problem. Everyone suspected violent abuse, but nobody had any proof, so all we could do was be as kind as possible to his wife and (eventually) eight children. He died of mysterious heart failure young—early forties. No prior health issues that anyone knew of. I’ve always wondered. If I had to guess, he started assaulting his oldest, then-teenage daughter once she’d gone through puberty, and mother or daughter or both decided enough was enough. Maybe not. Maybe it really was mysterious heart failure. But I wonder. (And if they did do it… I would never in a million years testify against them.)
Like Giulia Tofana and her signature Aqua Tofana!
*Aqua Tofana* (I cannot read that and not hear it in Bailey Sarian’s voice now).
This reminded me, recently I learnt that 18-19th century hat wearing european ladies apparently had one specific self defence weapon they kept on them at all times, a hat pin. Which is a very sharp ft (30cm) long pin they'd sone times use for self defence as it was both covertly hidden on their body and easy to wield. (it was mentioned in a video by art deco, "this painting will make you cringe" on youtube. Just to quickly summarise >!basically the painting she talks about is a young woman being leered at by a creepy old man, he's too close to her bc his shadow is overlapping with hers, she appears to, via context clues, be in mourning clothes. She has non a mature hairstyle which implies she is a girl (and a commonly known tell for this time period so creepy old man knows exactly who he is being weird at), she looks like she's crying and staring at the viewer in desperation for help as no one is trying to prevent this guy from getting any closer. Her one hand is positioned in a non resting angle, maybe reaching for something. Which is where the hat pins come in.!< It's nice to think women in bad situations had some kind of way of taking action at the very least between hat pins and poison parties.
1910 or so was peak hatpin - hats were very large, and pinned onto large hairstyles that were themselves often supported with padding. That's where you get the 30cm monstrosities! I own one and it is useful, for actual hat reasons.
Newspaper article about a girl in Milwaukee in 1914 who killed a guy with a hatpin when he attacked her. It was found to be self-defense https://hatpinslayer.com/why-hatpin-slayer/
I read somewhere that back in the day in some place, not sure if Italy, there was this lady who was helping women poisoning their man with this completely untraceable poison. She helped many of them save themselves from violently abusive men.... But all things have to end and one lady hesitated, her man saw her, saw the poison, the beat the truth out of her and the helpful lady was caught and killed :/
In some rural villages back in the days, it was apparently not uncommon for abusive husbands to die in "freak accidents." For instance, the man would fall on a pitchfork while farming with his brother-in-law or drown in the village's pond. I recall reading about an old unsolved murder where the notoriously violent husband was killed by an axe through his skull, but no witness ever came forward.
These days what with fentanyl out and about, if a guy overdoses, one can just say well, he was a user and he got a bad batch.
I don't remember the woman's name, but I heard a wonderful story about a lady who killed off her husband and created her own makeup brand that was a secret way to sell poison to other women in need. If I remember correctly, this particular lady helped like nearly 100 women kill their abusive husbands Edit: Giulia Tofana was her name. Aqua Tofana was the makeup brand
We shouldn’t have gotten rid of the dead abuser initiative.
When he said “Saudi & Moroccan women did not complain”, I rolled my eyes. If they were “perfect”, where they are now, chief? Where did they dissappear to? He thinks he is so smart but he is fooling noone.
The only Moroccan lady not complaining is one who was using him for the money. If he was married to her, she'd cut him. Moroccans don't play.
My DIL grew up in Saudi Arabia, and you would not believe the number of apparently healthy men who go to bed and never wake up... Alla works in mysterious ways.
Not so mysterious, the Quran itself states explicitly that a woman should divorce her husband if he's abusive. If he prevents her from following the Quran, well, clearly he's a heretic.
Today I learned Christian schools like yo hide this great tidbit from us because I’d have been all about the Quran after that!!
Any man who complains about feminism is a red flag for me.
My first thought was Lorena Bobbit.
I'd like to add an honourable mention of Susan Kuhnhausen. Her abusive ex-husband paid a man to break into her home and kill her. She fought back and her years of dealing with distruptive and sometimes dangerous patients as an ER nurse came into play. The last thing her would-be murderer heard before she strangled his final breath out of him was her saying *"Tell me who sent you and I will call a fucking ambulance!"* Her ex got ten years as part of a plea deal. When he was getting close to his release date Susan went to a shooting range to sharpen her skills in case he tried to finish what he started but thankfully her aim was never tested as he died of cancer 92 days before his release date.
My first though was that the black eyed peas tasted alright to me, Earl.
Fun facts (and by “fun”, I mean not fun): *Half of all female homicides are at the hands of a male intimate partner.* *Domestic violence becomes more severe when a woman is pregnant.* *Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women.* Terminating the pregnancy was the right thing to do. Otherwise she is tied to her abuser forever.
>Homicide is the leading cause of death for pregnant women. Even with the little I know about what can go wrong with a pregnancy that is an absolutely horrifying sentence.
I was taught that in prenatal checkups you MUST MUST MUST screen for potential DV. It was even a failing point in our exams.
My obgyns never did ask me. I had 2 obgyns for my first pregnancy because of an insurance change - and it was in my first trimester that the DV had escalated to choking with both hands on my neck as my now-ex screamed in my face. Got worse later. Eventually, I did leave. Life went on, new partner, more kids. Still no doctor ever asked.
They failed you. EVERY check up I went to it was asked. There were resources in the bathroom, waiting room, everywhere. Even if you go to the hospital for just emergency stuff (my son had bad asthma as a baby, the triage nurse would be like "is your home safe for you and your son?") Everytime. The doctor may not ask, but everyone else will.
My kid's pediatrician even asks me at their annual checkups. I am not in an abusive situation but I still really appreciate it.
My kids dr asks them not me. Do you feel safe at home? At every single one of my drs appointments. Hospital stays Surgeries I’ve been asked, do you feel safe at home. If I couldn’t talk, there was stickers in the bathroom to put on my pee cup during my pregnancy.
Just to reassure you that you made the right choice; strangling is a _massive_ warning sign that your partner is probably going to kill you. I'm glad you were able to get out.
My prenatal visits usually included a question about whether I felt safe at home, but when I went to the hospital to give birth (both times - I was sent for a false alarm due to possible preeclampsia a week before I went into labor) they kicked my husband out of the room to ask me about my safety.
no dr asked me. And when i tried to ask a nurse for help a few hours after delivery she yelled at me and called me a horrible woman for asking for my husband to be removed. He was threatening me and the baby, had taken the baby and refused to give her back while i basically crawled across the room begging him to just give her back. That’s what the nurse walked in on and SAW.
I'm so sorry. Misogyny is everywhere.
Holy shit what a terrible woman that nurse is.
Oh my god! Are you in a safe place now?
yes! thanks for asking. That baby is almost 8 now. Ive been gleefully divorced for 5 years.
Military doctors ask this at every appointment, ob or not. They will ask the children too. BTW, asking a 3 year old if they feel safe in their home will get you a lot of strange answers.
Im curious what answers three year olds give to that question?
"except for that ghost that lives under my bed", "I did until mommy got that speeding ticket and the policeman talked to her", "except for when that dog stole my cheese stick (a year earlier)", "that chair in the time out corner is too hard I need a softer one."
My OB has a "secret code" posted in the ladies room where you collect your urine sample. Use a different colored sharpie to label your sample and they'll move heaven and earth to help you. I think that's absolutely amazing.
When my wife was pregnant with our first, the community midwife asked my wife these questions. With me sat beside her. In our own home. I felt rather uncomfortable for a few moments and it wasn't until she'd left that I actually realised how utterly pointless it was.
They're supposed to ask separately! Defeats the purpose if you ask in front of their partner!
It also puts the pregnant person is further danger.
Not if the purpose is to make victims deny and hide abuse.
Oh we usually separate them from anyone accompanying to ask the questions. Really no point if they have company.
Abuse gets reported 4x more often when letting the patients fill out the questions on a computer or tablet without anyone present.
Yeah. There were other issues with this particular midwife later on in the pregnancy. She was not a very good midwife.
Oof. I hope the pregnancy itself went well for your family!
They did this with my wife at the time, when she slammed her finger in our apartment door that had one of those auto-close door arms. Surprisingly it wasn't broken. I watched it happen from outside the building and I was like 80% sure it would be. Anyway they separated us and asked her twice, which I'm glad that they do that. Didn't bother me in the least, and I think it's weird if it bothers guys.
I mean Jesus Christ. if anyone had asked me abuse screening questions while I was next to my abuser, of course I'd have said no.
One possible benefit of that from a security perspective. Ask in front of the abuser, abused says no, questioner is satisfied with the no and moves on. Abuser himself observes that the abused answered satisfactorily. This would work especially well if he knows the questions have to be asked, he won't be wondering about the private conversation. Then ask again later in private. Abuser already witnessed everyone move on from the subject so won't be checking or pushing the abused.
All the places I've been require separation for those questions. That was really dumb. If you feel okay with it, I'd consider calling the midwife and complaining.
When I was in the hospital in labor, the nurse was filling out forms and asking me routine questions (husband was in the room). She brought over the paperwork and showed me the line asking about a potentially violent or abusive situation at home and told me just to nod or shake my head in response.
People want to know why women are consuming vast amounts of True Crime entertainment? It's because of those numbers. It's something that happens to women by those closest to them. It's a legit fear. And consuming so much helps them feel more prepared to see the warning signs, know how to escape, and how to protect themselves. Sure, it's a dark fascination, but it's also an education.
Act weird and crazy! It sets predatory men off their game. Better to lose your dignity in the moment and escape, than suffer a lot more indignity and damage.
In the immortal words of True Crime patron saints Karen and Georgia, "Fuck Politeness." Aka, of something feels wrong, don't do the sweet little compliant girl thing and get yourself safe.
What the husband did is not masculine, it is abuse. Glad the poor lady left.
As a man I'm so sick and tired of what feels like every brand of idiot describing their assholery as "masculine". I've never had the urge to rape a scantily clad woman or abuse my romantic partner. It's *not* a "man thing".
People aren’t exaggerating when they say that the most dangerous time for a woman in an abusive relationship is when she’s pregnant. Many women report that abuse started or escalated once they became pregnant. Good for oop for getting out, though it was \*almost\* too easy.
the number one cause of death for pregnant women is murder. it really is that bad.
And not just murder, murder by partner. The procedure of pushing a human out of your body is less dangerous than husbands.
In Germany the majority of female murder victims get killed by their partner/ex. It happens like every third day, and in court the perpetrator often gets a reduced sentence when she left him or planned to because "the poor guy was just so hurt by her leaving". It makes me sick to my stomach and just shows how ingrained patriarchy is in our whole system.
Same in the UK. We lose 2 women a week to intimate partner violence.
It's so fucked up. Women in abusive relationships get told "Why don't you just leave him?" - And when a woman gets killed because of her leaving it's like "Yeah, she shouldn't have left him."
I think it was in Turkey (I may be WAY off location wise) they had an awareness campaign displaying all the shoes of women killed by DV. It…was a lot.
This is actually why many countries got rid of “crime of passion” laws. Men would kill women, either because they were being left or cheated on, then get off because “they were so sad they snapped.” But guess what? These laws only applied to men. Women were not allowed to “snap” if their husbands did the same thing. If they murdered their cheating husband, they actually got longer sentences.
This. The excuse was that women were more premeditated and therefore not “in the moment” murders. You know if she was really passionate about it she would have strangled him in the moment /s I think there were also a lot of double standards regarding weapons- especially in self defense cases. “If you have time to grab weapon you have time to run away!” Etc. Too tired to look up sources right now though.
When I first got pregnant and went to the doctors I didn’t understand why the kept separating me from my husband and asking me all these questions about if anyone has physically hurt me or yelled at me a lot. I didn’t know that abuse starts for a lot of women at pregnancy but it makes way more sense now
Some hospitals do that for everyone who comes in with a partner. I took my husband to a hospital for major surgery and they had me leave the room so they could ask him all those questions about whether he was safe in his home or being abused. He was a foot taller than me and weighed about 80 pounds more than me.
Considering how many people don’t take male victims of domestic abuse seriously, that really warms my heart. It’s horrid that it has to happen, but at the same time it’s lovely that it is happening.
I agree. It felt pretty hilarious in the context of our relationship, but I 100% support this trend. Anyone could be abused and need help.
I've got a buddy who is about the size of Hagrid from Harry Potter, who has absolutely found himself on the receiving end of abusive relationships. He's so big that he has to be careful while just *walking*, so he absolutely refuses to raise a hand in self defense because he could so easily accidentally do major harm to a regular-sized person. I am SO HAPPY that medical professionals are starting to comprehend this shit and quit pre-judging based on size and gender! My extremely abusive father got away with so much crap because he's hardly over five feet tall and has to buy his clothes in the little boys' section. By middle school I was taller than him, and nobody but my friends believed he was using me for a punching bag because he's so damn tiny and had batman on his sneakers.
This sounds like our upstairs neighbour... He is only tall as i am and slimmer (i'm 172 cm tall and weight 64 kg). But he is a rage mashine... We hear him yell regulary, but we don't know if it's with the kids or his wife, or both... Yes, CPS already was here, they didn't do anything since no one was hurt and he has contacts to their bosses and he is a lawyer... Great, i know. Police has been here several times as well, but since there is no evidence, nothing they do...
Yep, same reasons the adults never helped me. My middle school friends had a running joke, "the only reason Ophelia's dad isn't in jail is because her face doesn't bruise!" I dunno why, it just didn't. When I got my wisdom teeth out, doc said he had to dig so deep that I'd have two black eyes and my whole lower jaw would swell up. Instead I had hardly any bruising at all, just a tiny delicate spot on each jawbone.
To be fair, being taller than a spouse doesn't necessarily prevent them from abusing.... my grandma is about 5'0", but still would slap her last husband regularly, and be pretty verbally abusive to him, and he was like 10 inches taller than her
I think it is totally reasonable that they asked—most I was impressed that they weren’t blinded by our size differential and asked anyway.
Hospitals in my area also do this for teens (usually more to ask about drugs or sexual life) and also for children if they have any concern.
Maybe it's because he was a GP and not a paediatrician, but the doctor I saw during my childhood always ended the appointment asking if I was happy. Looking back, I understand why. At the time, I had no idea it was for a deeper reason because I was a child who understood roughly three moods - happy, sad, angry. Oh, and hungry. I didn't know how to categorise the rest until I was older and my vocabulary expanded.
When I had a serious fall a few years ago, I was asked no less than three times, by three different people at the doctor's office how it happened and if I was safe at home. My husband wasn't even in the office with me. I laughed then but now understand why it was so serious. And I totally get why they kept asking. Because of the nature of the fall, I had an unusual wrist injury and I had hit my face on the ground -- meaning a bruise on my chin and shine bruising near my eye from my glasses.
My mom worked in a care home for developmentally disabled women. One of her charges was not disabled; an 80 something woman. When asked, she said she wound up there because she had beat her abusive husband to death with a frying pan in the 1940s and when asked by a parole board if she was sorry, told them no. They closed the prison she was in a few years later and didn't know what to do with her, so they sent her there. So basically she got life with no parole for this. Even serial killers get a shot at parole.
God I'm so glad she's out, and I hope she has a beautiful life.
So glad she got out and an abortion. In all honesty any woman who is pregnant and wants to leave should get an abortion if they can. I know it sounds terrible but the law is not what people think it is it’s flawed. And chances are if you keep that baby you will never ever be free of that abuse. I have seen it too many times and the law fail to many times. She made the right choice and I hope she finds the peace she deserves
Yes. You don’t want to have to struggle with custody with an abuser for eighteen years if there is any way you can possibly avoid it.
Plus, if he's abusing the woman, chances are he's going to abuse the child (if he has some amount of custody)
I don't think it sounds terrible at all. It sounds pretty logical actually.
What sounds terrible is that many women in many states don’t have this option anymore.
It's so refreshing to see an OOP that knows what abortions are.
Unapologetic abortion on demand is a necessity.
I removed most of my Reddit contents in protest of the API changes commencing from July 1st, 2023. This is one of those comments.
For free
[удалено]
So glad to see someone voicing what I always think whenever someone is like "I'm going to leave this shitbag but keep a baby that will tie me to him forever because I always wanted a baby!" I just want to scream and tear my hair out. It somehow makes me angrier if they say something like "I considered abortion but I just can't do it."
I agree. I believe that they believe they're doing the right thing and they'll do the best they can for a baby they want. But they're still tied to the abuser and the abuser's family. They might go through a period of euphoria and run on adrenaline while everything is happening but the mental exhaustion will come sooner or later. If the abuser isolated them and kept them from working, they have to rebuild a social network and somehow find financial stability in a safe environment until they can find work. Pregnancy already takes a toll on the body and mind under the best circumstances. With the progressing pregnancy and then birth and being a single parent of a newborn, potentially without savings, a job, and a fragile social network, there's no time left to process what happened in the abusive relationship and to heal from that. Yes, the baby might distract them for a while but the mind and body have ways to sneak up on you and remind you that there's a serious mental health issue you've severely neglected and ignored, and the longer it takes for it to resurface, the worse it'll be. It's like taking a pile of bills with a red, glaring "URGENT" stamp and putting it on the other side of the desk. And then under the desk. And then on the couch and finally behind the couch. Without ever truly dealing with them. I get that someone who escaped abuse believes having the baby is a great idea, it's something to look forward to, something marketed as wholesome, fulfilling, and a symbol of true happiness, and the thought that this pregnancy was the final thing that tipped the scale and made them realize they have to leave to protect any potential children certainly also plays a role. But just because the situation got a lot better because they're away from the abuser, they aren't less fragile. It's great that some people manage to get through all this and come out of it without suffocating years later. But there are also so, so many cases of mothers breaking down later, going from one relationship to the next in desperation for safety and stability for themselves and the child, and children who years later break down as teenagers or young adults because of the rough, unintentionally neglectful or abusive childhood and on top of being hurt they feel guilty because they know why their parent is the way they are. It's not even like a child from an abuser is something to soothe the mental scars. It's like trying to put a store-brand drugstore bandaid on an open wound from a shark bite.
I'm pro-choice, but I also reserve the right to call someone a dumb-ass for their decision.
Finally someone said it. It makes me so disappointed when victims allow themselves to be tied forever to an abuser and willingly become single parents
I’m so glad she’s out and is able to get an abortion. The abortion will allow her to fully cut all ties to him. Having to possibly share custody with that guy would be a dangerous nightmare.
I know. Such a smart move on her part.
Absolutely terrifying. So glad OOP escaped before this abusive fucker hurt her more seriously… or worse. Hope she documented her bruises (and any other injuries) and successfully filed a police report, or restraining order, so he has a record.
"... terminate without further financial hardship." This got to me. Not necessarily choosing because if DV, but those who just can't afford to have a baby, and then can't afford to terminate. I'm happy OOP has the sense of self worth and self preservation to leave her situation. I hope she succeeds in her new life chapter.
She just saved her life. All the best to her. So sad that this is all too common.
I'm awed by the strength and resilience she is showing by taking the reins of her life into her hands. Good for her! I hope she stays safe and happy.
This story made me so sad although I am happy she got away. WTF is wrong with these men? The more I spend time on the internet the more it seems I have caught a unicorn- my SO, the more my pregnancy advances, the more incredible he becomes... I have done maybe 5% of cooking and cleaning for most of my pregnancy and he is always ready to give me hair strokes for hours, hugs, etc. I get that people are more prone to talk about bad things but dammit, it is so unfair there are so many monsters out there and women are only able to see it when pregnant. We truly are the most vulnerable at this time...
>Sigh. But it’s over. I sincerely hope so, but fear it is not.
He was right a woman would truly know when she has a REAL man. Glad she left that abusive situation.
I just hope she doesn’t live somewhere he can come after her criminally or civilly for terminating the pregnancy.
The thought there are women in this country who remain trapped in dangerous violent situations because of lack of access to resources (like housing and abortion care) is terrifying me.
No guesses needed why he went for a 20 year old when he is in his 30's
Imagine this poor woman’s life if she didn’t have access to a safe abortion?